Good to know. Thanks
#h1-builds-and-combat
inner heath
Yeah, wouldn't have guessed that
It's logical, but I guess I never thought about it since I never played hellmode yet
rough bluff
it says "Your Summon deals 1500 damage to 2 foes one after another"
so is that like 3k damage for 2 enemies?
scenic lodge
I haven’t seen Patty for 10 runs now. Bad RNG?
inner heath
1500 for one enemy, then it attacks for 1500 on another would be my guess from that phrasing
rough bluff
dang thats pretty horrible RNG if thats the case
inner heath
but I don't have so can't confirm
rough bluff
hmmm alright
scenic lodge
Ever since the update really I haven’t seen him
carmine rivet
I'd say KMBR is on the obol based on that text.
It's probably more of a hard counter to the Champions and when Final Boss summons a Dire/Mini-boss to their side.
rough bluff
is it summonable against the final boss?
cunning urchin
What's a hard counter to the final boss summons? You can only summon Skelly and Bouldy in that fight.
rough bluff
with ||Achilles being bound to Hades|| and all
probably no particular hard counters, just depends on how good your boons are up til that point
carmine rivet
No clue if it'll work or not, but ||Patroclus could technically take a swing at the big guy||
scenic lodge
Wait you can’t summon certain companions in the final fight?
cunning urchin
Correct.
rough bluff
yes due to lore specific reasons
carmine rivet
Fidi, Mort, and Battie don't work, for perhaps obvious workplace reasons.
cunning urchin
New summon doesn't work, either. Only Bouldy and Skelly.
rough bluff
ah I see
scenic lodge
I usually forget to use my summons every time I fight the big guy but I didn’t realize certain companions don’t attack him
rough bluff
placeholders for 1.0 maybe?
carmine rivet
Certainly possible.
scenic lodge
I knew you can’t summon Meg vs Meg of course but I thought that was it lmao
main osprey
Or Than during a Than room
cunning urchin
Can't summon Megaera vs any of the Furies.
scenic lodge
They have specific lines against certain bosses correct?
scenic lodge
and some bosses will have lines depending on what companion you used
@rough bluff Except ||Lernie and Char|| of course since they don’t talk lmao
carmine rivet
I adore Than's "Remember me, Theseus?" line
errant narwhal
hey, just a reminder to not discuss datamined content in here
opal glade
hey yalls, is it just me or is Lernie's main head hitbox a bit weird? Certain things like effect dashes and casts seem to go 'under' Lernie instead of hitting even if it looks like it did visually
cunning urchin
Dashes tend to have pretty small hitboxes. So it might just be that.
main osprey
Like when head is slamming?
When the head is "up" in that attack the hitbox disappears
opal glade
oh so there is a 'up' position
yeah it's probably that then
usually on fists or rail it's negligible but i was running casts recently and some just curve away without hitting
opal glade
ohh i don't usually get her call so i didn't notice
it was a bit frazzling cause in the heat of battle and cast being my main damage feelsbad that the fight dragged out cause of the misses
cunning urchin
I don't try to attack the heads at all during head slams. They have some recovery afterwards where they're free to attacks.
I'm never pressed for time in Asphodel with TD2. Just take your time, learn to avoid taking damage above all (and moving around the platforms without panicking on EM2), and take your hits when it's safe to attack instead of trying to force anything.
opal glade
that's solid advice, thanks nyaa : D
mint plinth
hey i have a question about a double pairing boon i can't obtain
how do you get || smoldering air || ?
turbid needle
Aphrodite and Zeus core, and a Call.
The Call can be either A or Z or a third Olympian.
mint plinth
ok so i have to have a call of some sort
got it, thanks mate !
(damn i never use mate as often because of this game xD)
(never knew it was common to use in english)
cunning urchin
You can do it, lad! 
turbid needle
It's more an Australian thing, last I heard.
main osprey
Both are good for attack
inland meadow
primary
main osprey
Zeus is better for special
inland meadow
really?
main osprey
High burst
inland meadow
ok but he is all about hitting very oftem
and you can't do that with secondary
are you sure you arn't talking about art for special?
turbid needle
You don't want Zeus on Hellfire, you want big damage.
You have to leave it alone to let it proc lightning multiple times.
barren sparrow
What do you guys think of Artemis dash? I feel that it's a bit lackluster compared to other boons. To me it's only better than Ares' dash.
main osprey
I think with a dash strike build it's incredibly powerful
With one boon, I can double my damage output?
sacred idol
@toxic acorn have you gotten the 'rapid fire bloodstones' Hermes boon lately? That's behavior that was always true for that boon, and I don't know if it was ever fixed.
barren sparrow
I suppose so. If given the choice I'd always take Athena/Dionys's dash over Artemis, but then again those 2 are really really strong
turbid needle
Hunter Dash requires a specific build.
It spikes extremely high or does basically nothing.
toxic acorn
i think it's fine to be that fast on a boon from hermes, but there should be a slight delay for loading the first cast on beowulf and hera, and then the fast loads for 2->3 and so on
turbid needle
It's almost useless on any Rail except Hestia.
toxic acorn
that's my opinion
sacred idol
mmmm I think it's a global thing?
although for Hermes, I feel like it really impacts usability negatively
you sometimes want just one bloodstone on that
toxic acorn
well, boons are more of a choice that you pick depending on what your build has/what direction you want to take it, and hermes speedcast really implies a "shoot em all, pick em all up" playstyle, not shooting a few. beowulf and hera can play both ways and have builds that work both ways, so having a delay makes sense there whereas hermes is the go fast god
if your build wants to cast one bloodstone you wouldn't pick hermes speedcast
does that make sense?
sacred idol
mmm, yeah
still, more choice in all cases = better imo
it just needs a better tap/hold detection buffer
neon bramble
2nd attempt at heat 40 fists... Got to Redacted phase 2... With a curse of longing build (which I didn't want, was going for merciful end)
So close
toxic acorn
don't think you need to say redacted here
neon bramble
Habit
toxic acorn
actually the more im messing with beowulf, i can't even load 1 bloodstone
barely tapping the button still loads 2
sacred idol
yeah that's the exact issue that's been here since hermes
neon bramble
Why would you ever want to load just one stone?
brave dune
Tactical bombing
neon bramble
I guess those things don't enter my strategy when I have DC2 active all the time.
toxic acorn
you can load a stone while you're in the middle of a bull rush, get the flare off, then have a dragon rush to kill an enemy with less health without wasting a flare on them
disjointing the flare from it's dragon rush is pretty important tech
neon bramble
Too complicated and slow, imo
toxic acorn
definitely not
neon bramble
Keep it simple. Overkill
toxic acorn
🙄
neon bramble
I'm serious
toxic acorn
so am i? it's actually really useful
neon bramble
There's always gonna be other enemies in the mob that require more damage
toxic acorn
being able to disjoint the flare from the rush has been a part of beowulf since day 1 of the tech beta, so it really stinks to lose this ability
neon bramble
I just approach it differently with Beo.
I circle around dash striking, shoving them all into a cluster while all my casts are preloaded, then blow them all up simultaneously
It's simpler and faster
What kind of build do you run on Beo in General?
Depending on your heat, I can suggest some very effective ones
Which you may not have considered
And they do away with the idea of tactical bombing, when you see how they work
civic barn
The Exalted: fixed an issue causing the Brightsword, Strongbow, and Greatshield to deal somewhat more damage than intended; their damage is restored to what it was before the Blood Price Update
ah
so that's why
brave dune
I guess more generally speaking, most people don't have a build they'd like for every run. The ability to control how many bloodstones you have and not to excessively waste them is just a good thing overall. There's also some conditions like Chaos unpickable or if the arena is too hectic for you to collect your bloodstones straight away so you'd like to keep a few on you.. etc.
turbid needle
More control for the player is more better, it's why I don't like the Dash-Strike window being extended again.
dry ember
Can you elaborate on the Dash Strike extension, Schpoon?
turbid needle
There are a few frames after the end of a Dash, where Zag is upright and running where you can still use Dash-Strikes.
Malphon's attacks are so fast that you can Dash-Strike and then Dash-Upper in the same Dash.
dry ember
Ok I do use the Strike Upper in one Dash a lot
turbid needle
It was brought back in line with the Dash animation back during Nighty Night, but I Think™️ it was re-extended with the engine switch-over.
dry ember
I personally don't mind, if not perfer, it this way.
dry ember
However, it is annoying with Excalibur
turbid needle
It's most annoying with Stygius, yes.
dry ember
Where you do want to get the first non Dash Strike hit to start the combo
Do you think this warrant a feedback?
neon bramble
But for fists, when using Demeter aspect + explosive upper, that functionality is great
turbid needle
I had an extended conversation with some of the devs about it back in the day.
unkempt pagoda
civic barn
hm they readjusted the phases of ||charon||didn't they
the first phase feels way longer than the other two
and going from the bar third phase is like half of second?
sacred idol
@cunning urchin What's your malph build again
cunning urchin
For Zagreus Aspect and Talos: Divine Strike > Hunter Dash > Support Fire + Deadly Reversal + Brilliant Riposte (any and all of these). Avoid any and all crit boons until you get Support Fire and Deadly Reversal because they make those harder to get.
Also Greatest Reflex from Lord Hermes if you can get it.
That's the "Mewmew Special" as some people here call it lol. (I never actually call it that.)
With Demeter Aspect, add Deadly Flourish (or Heartbreak Flourish if you're offered that) between Hunter Dash and Support Fire, basically.
dry ember
Colloquially known as Crutch™
cunning urchin
I'll legit reroll an Epic Deadly Flourish to get any Hunter Dash instead first on Demeter Aspect.
Deadly Flourish makes Hunter Dash a lot harder to get if you get it first. But getting Hunter Dash first doesn't make getting Deadly Flourish as hard to get.
Hunter Dash affects both Dash-Strikes and Dash-Uppers, so that's another reason it has priority. And Deadly Flourish is replacable with Heartbreak Flourish (or even something like Frost Flourish).
dry ember
How about Tempest Flourish
cunning urchin
I've tried it once or twice, and I don't think I got all 6~7 hits with it consistently.
Plus, the knockback kind of sucks either way. You don't want to need to dash again after you already dashed in to even get there.
I would just skip flourishes, though, until I get Deadly or Heartbreak, personally.
raw violet
but it is hilarious to uppercut enemies at mach speed into a wall
cunning urchin
Unless I'm starting to get close to Elysium and need something.
It is indeed hilarious lol.
Although, the most fun meme (but actually effective) run for me with Malphon is Talos + Tidal Dash.
sacred idol
So what was considered meme about that build
the fact that you punched projectiles away?
punch the skull
raw violet
I will also second that, provided you have the choice, hunter dash will go a longer way than a flourish for Demeter
sacred idol
seriously?
cunning urchin
People seriously underestimated the damage, I would say. They just saw "deflect everything" and figured it just worked on low heat or something?
sacred idol
that is actually the opposite of what I'd have expected
but I guess Hunter Dash is one of those things that's just way more powerful in a build for it than most people notice
I am personally loving Tempest Flourish in general just for fun though
Poseidon is just entertaining
Is his Attack still the worst base damage next to Artemis, though?
Also, why Tidal Dash specifically for Talos?
And what mirror builds do people go for
turbid needle
People are underestimating Tidal Dash ?
Not surprised
It's easy to gloss over the damage
cunning urchin
No, my main Malphon build.
sacred idol
no, I'm asking why that and not flourish
turbid needle
oh
cunning urchin
Divine Strike etc.
sacred idol
and being surprised that hunter dash is more damage than a high damage flourish on demeter
cunning urchin
Magnetic Pull pulls enemies right in front of you, and if you cancel into a forward dash immediately, Tidal Dash will knock them way back behind you.
sacred idol
Is that just assuming you have the timing down for dash strike+upper comboing? The hunter dash thing
or is it just that the hunter dash bonus is so stupid large it outweighs the raw bonus anyway
cunning urchin
So your pull ends up just yeeting them half a mile behind you or something lol.
I don't use that combo that much. I use mainly auto-attack and dash-strikes until I have a special charge.
Hunter Dash will also skyrocket your Dash-Upper damage if you get crits on it with Deadly Flourish or any other Flourish + Deadly Reversal.
sacred idol
I'm still unsure how to set up my mirror best
dry ember
Because there is no best :3
sacred idol
like, is fiery presence actually any good, which of the rarity buff combos is worth, family favorite or priv stat, and which fated is worth now
on release, green fated sucked and kept rerolling identical pulls
cunning urchin
I use Dark Regeneration, Stygian Soul, Fated Persuasion. And every other talent is on the other side.
dry ember
Shadow works for me because the backstab damage is better on boss fights
cunning urchin
It also gives you a lot more DPS potential over a run in general.
sacred idol
Yeah, Fiery I always thought looked comparatively bad
cunning urchin
Because you can backstab enemies multiple times for +50% damage. Whereas Fiery Presence will only ever apply once against each enemy.
dry ember
Fiery is underwhelming
sacred idol
BP?
dry ember
Benefit Package
dry ember
That, too
cunning urchin
But if you're not backstabbing deliberately or haven't developed the skill for it yet, Fiery Presence would do more for you.
dry ember
It would be nice if Fiery scalles off %health of the enemy, not your own.
sacred idol
err, what? scaled off health...?
sacred idol
also Family Favorite is max of 25%, right?
rare topaz
Fiery Presence... I've never bothered to play with it, on the basis of consistency.
dry ember
Well technically more
You can get 4 gods in Tartarus
Then force 3 more for As, El, and Styx
sacred idol
oh right
raw violet
i believe Family Favorites is potentially 35
dry ember
Plus guaranteed hermes
sacred idol
trinket cheeseballing
raw violet
at best
dry ember
For 8 in total?
rare topaz
Not to mention, especially with melee weapons and such, it's quite easy to just pull off backstabs without trying.
dry ember
So 40%
rare topaz
But whatever, discussion's moved on lol
sacred idol
basically a no trinket run though lol
jank build+not having any active trinkets for dad
dry ember
I dif use Fiery on bow a lot at low heat
cunning urchin
Oh right, I also have Family Favorite most of the time. Unless I know I'm planning for 2 status effects in my build. It's just more consistent for my typical builds.
sacred idol
Which Olympian/God's boons do people go for?
dry ember
Totally weapon dependent
turbid needle
Depends on the weapon/aspect
dry ember
In general I go Heartbreak Strike Zag Bow
turbid needle
The most universal god is probably Athena
dry ember
Lightning Strike Fists, Lightning Strike Zag Rail
turbid needle
Because lol divine dash
dry ember
Deadly Strike Hestia
sacred idol
Which ones are most dependent on stable rarity
actually
my bad, that was stupid, I meant the mirror perks
and said boons
Olympian Favor stuff
Rarity or the alternate perks, when is it justified losing the rarity buffs
cunning urchin
I take rare+ and epic+ every time, personally.
turbid needle
^
sacred idol
commons feel so pathetically weak
dry ember
The only common I take is Deadly Strike
sacred idol
is Poseidon's strike still 30% base
cunning urchin
Common can be fine on anything if you get some poms on it.
sacred idol
and is it worth on any weapon other than lucy firehose memes?
neon bramble
Killing freeze is awesome at any rarity
turbid needle
But it's so much better at epic
sacred idol
Also, maybe the green rarity stuff needs a buff
sacred idol
I'd love to be able to take the green versions without getting gimped by commons
neon bramble
@turbid needle I'm gonna DM you a demeter Beo build I had the other day... You're gonna laugh
dry ember
Dark Regeneration still goes BRrrrrr though
sacred idol
if you can avoid spending too much the snowball is crazy
cunning urchin
Well, the goal with the mirrors isn't necessarily balance but to give you interesting choices.
civic barn
the green perks are mostly fine i feel
turbid needle
Dark Regen/Family Favorite are the two big ones
Regen casts and Persuation rolls are ok alternatives
cunning urchin
High Confidence can make for fun runs if you consider it a challnege.
civic barn
there's very few "you have to get the purple perks" on the mirror
though there's almost definitely a couple that's just better
cunning urchin
But a lot of people do.
sacred idol
and it's borderline useless for anything else besides people who are good enough to no-hit, and for that there's piercing butterfly runs
serene nexus
I personally only force myself to do the challenges that give you blood.
I need a ton of it.
cunning urchin
So if there's something for everyone, that works out.
raw violet
i used to opt for High Confidence in special-focused runs when there was no special jerkies
sacred idol
Family Favorite generally better even if you're not forcing massive godstacks?
raw violet
Acorn allows you to keep the buff up through boss fights
sacred idol
hah, bold of you to assume I can clear any boss only getting hit five times
turbid needle
@sacred idol Yeah, assuming you know you won't get constant double statuses
raw violet
but now with special jerky, high confidence usage wanes
sacred idol
but that's just me being too bad to use it
raw violet
I'm just providing a niche use for it
sacred idol
it's at a point that I actually sometimes need abyssal blood, lmao
serene nexus
Priv. Status is good for when you want to force a build (aka full tryhard mode with Aphro Attack and Ares Special)
sacred idol
Ruthless Reflex or Greater?
raw violet
I would generally agree that high confidence is not the general preferred option
cunning urchin
High Confidence for relatively safe cast builds could be pretty good.
raw violet
that's true
cunning urchin
Since you're mainly yeeting your casts from a safe distance.
sacred idol
Dark Regen feels overwhelmingly better everywhere except Styx
dry ember
Ruthless Reflex or Greater?
Nighty Night, Greater 100%. Now, honestly I'm not sure.
turbid needle
@sacred idol My feeling on it as well
sacred idol
In Nighty Night Ruthless was ridiculously easy to proc
like, you could dash on lava and get it
neon bramble
I have to say... Concentrated knuckle is low key way better than I thought it would be
turbid needle
And the reason I stuck with Cthonic vitality for so long LOL
Until I went on stupid high heat
sacred idol
Dark Regen is basically full heals on two troves, lmao
dry ember
Crying in LC4
raw violet
I prefer Cthonic in general just to modulate any early game Chaos gates
serene nexus
Typically I run Chaos Keepsake first
dry ember
I keyed my mirror and have 0 darkness om that talent xD
serene nexus
So I can get any gates I can get without worrying about the HP penalty
raw violet
you still have to care cause you need a minimum amount of health
serene nexus
The question is whether or not Priv. Status is better than Family Favorite
And what times are better though...
neon bramble
You can usually kill yourself for the Regen prior to a chaos gate
raw violet
and forcing 2-3 chaos gates in Tartarus is key to speedrunning
neon bramble
Unless you're not paying attention
turbid needle
If you plan to go with either Aphrodite, Dionysus, Demeter or Ares, Priviledged Status might be better
Otherwise it's an easy Family Favorite for me
neon bramble
Depending on my build, chaos is great. There are times he has given me +80 health
inland meadow
does the duo between art and dio still exist in this patch?
turbid needle
Yup
neon bramble
It's the backstab boons chaos now gives that are the best, imo
serene nexus
An extra cast stone from Chaos is always welcome IMO
inland meadow
still crit per hangover?
turbid needle
Shouldn't have been changed
raw violet
backstab is unfortunately not very good on fists
inland meadow
ok
neon bramble
Or you know... When he gives you two extra cast stones on a Demeter Beo Cast build... 🤣
cunning urchin
Greater Reflex and Thick Skin are really the only two that are undeniably superior at very high heats (meaning 40+). Actually, Deep Pockets I daresay, too, because you're not saving up enough money at that heat to make Golden Touch worth it when everything costs +80% etc. Everything else I think is up for debate, and probably depends a lot on the build.
On at least 0~20, everything is viable and can be made effective.
neon bramble
Backstab is amazing on fists
dry ember
An extra cast stone from Chaos is always welcome IMO
Hmm cast stone to me means lodging to me
neon bramble
Especially with explosive upper
dry ember
And I don't need more than 1
raw violet
special does not benefit from backstab
cunning urchin
That's the way I see it.
raw violet
so no
neon bramble
Oh
cunning urchin
I want Uppercuts to backstab, but they probably won't give us that lol.
raw violet
doubly so for explosive because i think the game consistently removes backstab damage from explosives
turbid needle
That would be too much
raw violet
but i'm not 100% on that
turbid needle
Like Athena with Exposed Status
raw violet
only like..90
cunning urchin
That would be too much
I don't see the issue with too much.
raw violet
I do think backstab on upper might be intentional cause i can't imagine how much more powerful that would be
turbid needle
You get to build tanky and do a ton of damage
raw violet
but I still left f10s on it
turbid needle
but eh
cunning urchin
You get to build tanky and do a [bleep] ton of damage
But I already do that anyway lol.
neon bramble
I hate you for convincing me to push 40 heat @cunning urchin 🤣🤣
Three times I made it to Hades now... Haven't cleared him yet
turbid needle
The damage multiplier on backstabs are pretty big
I could see it being intentionnal for balance reasons
But eh
Maybe it's an oversight
cunning urchin
You can do it!
neon bramble
I will... Have AP1 and underworld customs on
neon bramble
Slightly annoying
I had to sell Deadly reversal once, because it was a choice between that or merciful end, or Ares attack
Was funny
cunning urchin
Are you recording your runs? I want to see it when you made it.
neon bramble
I'm not recording, but I will
turbid needle
I'll have to setup a way to record my stuff
Now that I think about it
I do a lot of meme stuff
cunning urchin
Plus, I think @raw violet only adds runs with video evidence to the spreadsheet. So that'd be a shame. 
neon bramble
Ah
turbid needle
Makes sense
neon bramble
Ok. I'll record runs now... Won't have commentary though
Maybe I could add commentary after the fact
cunning urchin
I don't even have a mic lol. I just have sick gameplay and sick FFVII music in my videos.
raw violet
yeah, I only add recorded videos but there's no need for any commentary
sacred idol
Anyone else think hydra heads should have backs? :^)
cunning urchin
You should add commentary after the fact, make it sound like boxing or MMA commentary. Just comment every move Zag is doing.
neon bramble
Two distinct builds feel like my style.. Demeter strike or Ares strike.
I actually appreciate Ares more now, because you can break down armour, land doom, and go focus on next enemy while it drops
turbid needle
Just let Hypnos do the commentary
neon bramble
You don't get the raw hit damage, but it's actually really good for high heat
raw violet
Mostly just so that people can't route or save scum a run to keep in spirit
turbid needle
I mean, nothing prevents them from routing first and then record
cunning urchin
What if I save scum my runs and add a soundtrack afterwards to make it feel seamless.
dry ember
Routing and save scumming run exist. Just put a large disclaimer on
neon bramble
Most annoying build.... Getting merciful end, then Hermes just not giving you extra dashes
cunning urchin
Don't need Greatest Reflex for Merciful End. You can do it!
dry ember
I mean, nothing prevents them from routing first and then record
I mean yeah, but it can look suspicious
neon bramble
I know, but it's way more fun with @cunning urchin
raw violet
it's true, there's nothing stopping people from editing a bunch of chambers together
dry ember
Like RNG manipulation can be obvious
cunning urchin
It is.
cunning urchin
My 41 clear was just holding down attack and mashing dash with an Epic Greatest Reflex lol.
raw violet
yeah, RNG manipulation is noticable
cunning urchin
- mashing call for Dionysus' Aid.
dry ember
Atm I'm willing to give most people benefits of the doubt
raw violet
if someone wants to save scum and edit the clips together, I can neither stop nor verify it
sacred idol
In all seriousness though, did they EVER buff Poseidon's attack?
neon bramble
It's not like it isn't still difficult
dry ember
But if the game gets more competitive, further verification might be in question
cunning urchin
I think if you recorded my inputs, you'd see me just mashing dash and call like my life depended on it lol.
dry ember
In all seriousness though, did they EVER buff Poseidon's attack?
@sacred idol no
sacred idol
yike
is it good on anything other than lucy
because firehose+sea storm is at least viable
dry ember
It's good on bow
lament coral
it's not good on anything, really
dry ember
Not optimal
turbid needle
On bow it's fine yeah
neon bramble
The reason being, Poseidon has TONS of support boons for his attacks
dry ember
But doable
sacred idol
no, the thing is, poseidon's special is second highest?
neon bramble
You can pump damage +800% with full fish
lament coral
he has support boons for collisions
sacred idol
but his attack is second lowest or so
turbid needle
Poseidon attack probably works best on the shield because of its huge sweeping attack and very high mobility.
sacred idol
"full fish"?
lament coral
which are useless outside of Styx
neon bramble
Full fish = all Poseidon
dry ember
I think if you recorded my inputs, you'd see me just mashing dash and call like my life depended on it lol.
You can still splice runs
sacred idol
oh
but no, I mean, I don't get why attack gets gimped to the floor while special gets to be a great raw damage boost
I've always thought his Attack should be buffed to be just below Aphro like the special
Especially since many attacks have fairly low knockback even with it
raw violet
if the speedrun server incorporates high heat runs into their database then I would be happy to hand off the verifying responsibilities. As of now, most of the people participating I'd give the benefit of the doubt
neon bramble
Slam damage + breaking wave + hydraulic might + legendary + more
His attacks can get serious
versed tide
the excal upgrade that gives bigger AoE makes the game pretty trivial
turbid needle
That's fair
dry ember
Pre recording
raw violet
lol
sacred idol
@neon bramble on bosses though, most of that evaporates into wave pounding
versed tide
excal AoE + Athena dash + extra hermes dash = you cannot die
dry ember
But that would also requires OSCAR level acting xD
dry ember
Do you stream? 
raw violet
go away
dry ember
Whoa why you do this to potential fan
neon bramble
That's the trade off @sacred idol
I find, with only a few exceptions, that you generally have to choose to either go crowd control or high burst damage for bosses.
Or you gear your attack for one, and special for the other
sacred idol
dunno, doesn't feel like a fair trade, because you can do the same with poseidon's special and have a strong attack
that's the main thing
like, his special doesn't have that tradeoff. it's just strong
neon bramble
Fish attack is like...
https://media.tenor.com/images/7534a16f20907c6fa0acb31db1a943ea/tenor.gif
I hate it
Fish special is good
Plus... Blizzard shot.
Does so much damage, you can't really complain about Poseidon attack, tbh
Sub in Demeter attack and go for duo, it's a perfect fit
sacred idol
eh, I mean, it's still the odd one out
neon bramble
Sure
mint plinth
the damage is insane
sacred idol
Crush Shot has its uses.
serene nexus
Blade Rift is better than it was before
neon bramble
Yes, but it requires heavy investment or duos
serene nexus
I think Zeus Cast got buffed
mint plinth
hey btw
neon bramble
Zeus cast is bleh except with beo
mint plinth
how can you get curse of the drowned ?
it's poseidon + ares isn't it ?
like : a doom boon and a poseidon boon ?
neon bramble
Ares attack or special pplus flood shot
sacred idol
Zeus cast is neat in theory, but apparently they removed embeds
neon bramble
Might work with any ares core boon actually
neon bramble
I just cleared 40!!!
dry ember
Pic or vid?
neon bramble
I recorded at the start, but I think it stopped on its own. Took a pic of victory screen
Yeah, I think I inadvertently stopped recording ☹️
I'll have to do it again
But man... I rolled that
neon bramble
Merciful end
Hang on
With an extra death defiance from Athena + touch of Styx dark
I leaned heavily on Athena call for Hades
neon bramble
Ty
It's just what it gave me, happens to be effective 🤣
Gonna post in the victory thread
light sage
is hades supposed to be able to attack me while impervious now or did I run into a bug?
neon bramble
Could have been faster, but I took my time in two erebus gates to make sure I got ares boons
lapis pilot
have a question - since i started getting into the game recently, are there any guides to... mmm... like combat depth? Good stun/juggles/combos to watch out for?
neon bramble
It's too bad the recording failed... The first Erebus gate was honestly a work of art the way I cleared it
dry ember
I think you just need to play more Benjamin
cunning urchin
@light sage F10 that.
dry ember
We can recommend some builds that are tried and true
cunning urchin
You can still do a bug report and explain the issue.
dry ember
But as for how to clear rooms, avoid attacks, there is naught but practice.
neon bramble
Are you sure it wasn't one of the flaming skulls on the ground @light sage ?
light sage
no he did the spin attack with a bubble around him
neon bramble
Oh wow
And you were right @cunning urchin
I did that with no extra dashes from Hermes
cunning urchin
Told you. 🥳
rocky sage
you know i did a 5 hear run today and i was genuinely fine with myself
thanks for ruining my self esteem as a GAMER
neon bramble
Lol
neon bramble
Dude... That took me a lot of tries
dry ember
Unknown
cunning urchin
Extra dashes with Merciful End can make you reckless. 2 dashes make you focus.
neon bramble
Make no mistake
dry ember
I'm not trivializing anything.
But the best way to prep for high heat is to do high heat runs
sacred idol
every spear? buh
neon bramble
I cleared heat 15 with Beowulf
cunning urchin
Nah, don't go from 5 heat to 32 lol.
neon bramble
Felt like I could have done 20-30 easily
But... I had a ridiculous build
Like... Ridiculous
sacred idol
browulf got the thicc buff
cunning urchin
@rocky sage congrats on your win! 🥳
sacred idol
@cunning urchin Curious to hear reasoning - why not buff poseidon attack?
rocky sage
@cunning urchin thank you mate or miss or whatever
shield of chaos
just feels so much better
imo
boreal bobcat
I desperately need advice on how do dodge Hades's spin move. I'll be doing things like putting Athena on both attack and dodge on my Fists, and it still hits me every time
sacred idol
good ol shield of cheese, I guess
rocky sage
@boreal bobcat its usually slower than you think just be paitent
patient
sorry if i sound stupid
nova goblet
does anybody have any good tips or the new rail aspect? the rng on my run has not been good so far
cunning urchin
@boreal bobcat you can't deflect it with Divine Strike.
boreal bobcat
Zeus on attack?
rocky sage
yessssss
boreal bobcat
That'd explain it Nyaa, thanks
neon bramble
Yes
cunning urchin
You can i-frame it with a regular dash.
rocky sage
NYAAAAA
neon bramble
Zeus on attack for Lucifer is 👌
rocky sage
and the guiding bolt artemis thing
cunning urchin
If you dash-strike, you have no invincibility. But just a dash will work.
rocky sage
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
neon bramble
So is Ares, but Zeus is easy
nova goblet
:0 need to try it bc the only boons i have atm are ertimes and aphrodite
rocky sage
how is ares good ?
cunning urchin
But you'll need to practice the timing for it or just try to get out of range asap.
boreal bobcat
Ares also stacks Doom, right
civic barn
if you have dire misfortune
rocky sage
ye but u need another upgrade
dry ember
Ares also stacks Doom, right
Ares gives Doom but Doom doesn't stack unless you also have Dire Misfortune (?)
civic barn
it's also less crowd control than zeus
cunning urchin
I do one dash through him when I see any attack startup from him, then if I see it's a spin, I'll time another dash to I-frame that.
nova goblet
should i give up my run and try again bc ive already lost my win streak
cunning urchin
Using a lesser call to i-frame it is also very effective.
rocky sage
lessee?
boreal bobcat
Considering how often Hades kicks my ass even at these low-Heat runs, I'd hate to imagine if I cared about win streak
civic barn
greater call is when the bar is completely full
nova goblet
btw with the update are u able to have more than 2 hammer upgrades per run?
neon bramble
Ah @dry ember I see why my video stopped... After the first room I flipped from 1440p to 1080p because the fps was janky with the video recording at high resolution.
I never noticed that it stopped.
boreal bobcat
If you count Anvil, I guess?
neon bramble
I'm sure I can do it again
nova goblet
thats what i thought... not sure if u could get more than 2 via room rewards
dry ember
But for recording sake obviously we need vid :D
neon bramble
Yep
dry ember
I don't doubt you made it 
cunning urchin
You can only get 2 hammers per run.
boreal bobcat
What do y'all recommend for a spear run? Boons/aspect wise, I mean. I got my first win with Spear but Hades has been kicking my butt at 4-5 Heat
dry ember
Spear run?
civic barn
demeter/aphrodite strike is almost always my choice for attack
cunning urchin
No I meant you can only get 2 hammer rewards per run + anvil.
nova goblet
wish i could rec something but i usually use shield/fists, spear is my worst
neon bramble
Pick up one hammer only.
Get to Styx and buy anvil right away
Hope that one of the Styx rooms also has a hammer
Ah ok
civic barn
since you either need the slow or the damage reduction for spear
helps that they're also high percentage attack boosts
cunning urchin
To be honest, does the anvil show up at all when you have 2 or if you have 1 and a hammer shows up?
civic barn
you can get the anvil to show up when you have two hammers
neon bramble
I'm almost positive I've seen it with 1
cunning urchin
I've paid attention to the anvil exactly 1 time I think lol.
neon bramble
But it certainly shows up when you have 2
I know, because I always want a Hermes boon, and the anvil is there 75% of the time instead
" item.
neon bramble
I never want the anvil. Ever.
civic barn
i mean, i don't always get the hammer i want
wintry plume
@cunning urchin i tried the Talos divine strike hunter dash build and it's so good! Unfortunately i died on Styx this time
neon bramble
I once took no hammers and grabbed the anvil, and it gave me heavy knuckle and flying cutter ☹️
The worst two fist hammers
civic barn
i think it's an okay option; the issue for me is just that it replaces a very important boon at an important location a lot of the time
cunning urchin
If I made it to the Temple of Styx, I'm probably happy with the hammers I have lol.
civic barn
I play on 20 heat; there's like no reason to reset
livid comet
ayy
civic barn
maybe if you're going for a high heat and you're trying to adjust what you're getting, sure
livid comet
why'd you not take hammers
neon bramble
Test run
livid comet
anvil is objectively worse unless your hammers are trash
civic barn
if you've gotten the anvil without any hammers
cunning urchin
@neon bramble that's like the Old Guy Zag build. Rocky 6 or whatever.
civic barn
then it's very unlikely that it won't show up when you have just one
neon bramble
Plus, every time I saw a hammer, there was just a better option at the time
civic barn
which means it's probably not tied to it at all then
livid comet
there's usually not a better option than hammer if you don't have hammers 🤔
cunning urchin
Malphon is fine with no hammers.
neon bramble
When you failed two erebus gates and are low health, the hammer becomes expendable
livid comet
that's not what I'm saying though.
neon bramble
Fist can do well with no Hammers
livid comet
I'm saying there are very few things better than hammers when you don't have any
civic barn
maybe they took a heart
livid comet
the chance to grab Breaching Cross is hard to pass up over any other reward imo
civic barn
🤷♂️
cunning urchin
Hammers will show up again anyway.
neon bramble
Here is what happened.
Hammer shows up, but miniboss fight is offering me a key boon for duo.
Take miniboss
cunning urchin
The other reward might not.
livid comet
right, they will keep showing up if you ignore them I guess
neon bramble
Hoping I see hammer in Charons shop.
Nope.
neon bramble
Yes
livid comet
noice
cunning urchin
Heavy Knuckle I think is solid now, anyway.
livid comet
heavy knuckle?
neon bramble
It's ok. It's just odd
livid comet
is that a new hammer?
neon bramble
But... With swift attack + Zag aspect it is good
cunning urchin
At least on Zag Aspect it's pretty good. Haven't tried it on others.
neon bramble
It shines with heart rend/deadly reversal
cunning urchin
@livid comet yes.
neon bramble
Turns you into 3 punch combo, 30 damage per hit
livid comet
ooh, so Nyaa's standard fist build works well with it
hmmm
sucks for support fire I guess?
neon bramble
Gives you bigger Crits on attack
cunning urchin
Just bigger everything on Attack.
neon bramble
But technically, long knuckle gives you more actual damage per combo
It's a trade off
livid comet
I don't like long knuckle all that much tbh
it makes the hitbox for the attack all wonky
cunning urchin
That makes two of us. I think Long Knuckle is just okay. But it definitely helps over no hammer.
neon bramble
It's only weird when you also choose rolling knuckle, because the dash cross is short
livid comet
hmm yeah
cunning urchin
Flying Knuckle is the only one I still never really use even when I have it.
neon bramble
Long knuckle also good for spreading doom/status effects for various duos
livid comet
hm
cunning urchin
I'm pretty sure the minimum range of Flying Knuckle was improved a bit, though.
neon bramble
If you get Demeter attack and killing freeze, take long knuckle
cunning urchin
At least it doesn't feel as bad anymore as it used to.
cunning urchin
On the one run where I had it, for the 5-6 times I used it, it felt better than before.
Before I pretended again that the only Special Malphon has is Dash-Upper.
neon bramble
I dislike both flying cutter and rush kick, but if I had to choose one, I'd grudgingly take rush kick
Why charge up when you can instantly launch?
cunning urchin
Yeah, but on 20-ish who cares. You can buy all the healing you need lol.
neon bramble
Fair
cunning urchin
. . . that probably sounded pretty bad for anybody struggling with those heats. I apologize. 😅
neon bramble
I'm wondering if concentrated knuckle counts hits where you are punching multiple enemies... Want to test that with long knuckle and see if you can get it to ramp 3-5x as fast
naive tusk
Well, this is a channel for general conversation among all heats. If you want to focus on a high-heat combat discussion, you know where to go.
Rush Kick is ok. Not a hammer I pick unless I don't like the other options.
neon bramble
I'll take kinetic launcher over rush kick all day every day
naive tusk
That's a fun hammer and it has sweet effects too.
cunning urchin
Concentrated is just +5 for every consecutive attack in the combo that hits and resets after the combo.
magic dagger
Yeah, but on 20-ish who cares. You can buy all the healing you need lol.
hey, that's how I did my first-run clear on the last update!
neon bramble
Right... But if you are punching a mob of 10 enemies... Is it 5x5x10?
That's what I mean
cunning urchin
No, it's just +5 for every attack that hits regardless if that attack hits 1 enemy or multiple enemies.
neon bramble
Are you sure if you don't just keep dashing back and forth uninterrupted it doesn't keep going?
naive tusk
Come to think of it, the hammers I'm always trying to pick with Malphon are Breaching Cross and Long Knuckle. Explosive Upper if I'm playing with Aspect of Demeter.
Any recommendations for other hammers and in particular scenarios/strategies?
neon bramble
Armour knuckle is good at high heat
cunning urchin
Rolling Knuckle is still great, too, even after the nerf.
neon bramble
Rolling is good...
I only take breaching cross if my build is lacking DPS
Because it has no use on bosses
naive tusk
Armour knuckle is good at high heat
@neon bramble that'd mean it's good at lower heat too
neon bramble
It is, but at low heat you can experiment with other stuff
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross and Explosive Upper are my top picks.
neon bramble
Kinetic launcher is weird to get used to, but it is very good when you get the hang of it
You can take out two groups very quickly
naive tusk
I like Kinetic Launcher. It's a safe option for such a short range weapon.
neon bramble
Smash one with regular attacks, turn and launch at another
cunning urchin
Not too much of a fan of Kinetic Launcher. I think it's okay, though. But it's not game changing.
naive tusk
Kinetic Launcher would have been great vs Megagorgon 
neon bramble
It can be a huge asset against bosses you suck at
Use drift dash and just keep pot shotting them
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross and Explosive Upper let you cut through Hades's Megagorgon summon like butter when without those two you're probably better off just staying away from it.
naive tusk
So Rolling Knuckle and Armor Knuckle. I will try them out next time I see them.
naive tusk
The grey Soulcatcher has a big armor too. And I like to take out grey exalted asap too.
neon bramble
And swift attack
cunning urchin
Rolling Knuckle was my pick for best hammer for Malphon alongside Breaching Cross before the nerf.
Since it could just perma-stunlock enemies by holding down Attack.
Now there's a gap after the Dash-Strike from it, though.
neon bramble
Rolling knuckle with divine strike before beta was basically a shield wall if you got swift attack
neon bramble
You could facetank everything
True
Flurry slash with swift attack is the same thing, even better actually
naive tusk
Your hammer picks come with picking any attack boon, correct? Because I rarely pick Divine Strike while playing with the twin fists.
rocky sage
whats the best sword?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
naive tusk
I did a run with that last week and I did feel like I was playing on easy mode lol
neon bramble
Yeah, my hammer picks change depending on boons
magic dagger
whats the best sword?
@rocky sage zoom aspect
neon bramble
I live nemesis aspect @rocky sage
rocky sage
i dig the nemesis with artemis
naive tusk
Poseidon Aspect is sweet 
neon bramble
But some will say Arthur or Poseidon
Everyone agrees Zag aspect is the Banana peel sword though
rocky sage
i hate the game forces u to max it
naive tusk
Banana peel?
naive tusk
The game doesn't force you. You are free to max it or not.
rocky sage
i want the mission
neon bramble
Yeah... Because you slip and slide everywhere with Zag sword @naive tusk 🤣
It's terrible
naive tusk
Besides, it's only 5 blood to do so right? Not too much.
sacred idol
It is required to get Skelly.
So in the sense that it's gating an unlock, yeah, it is mandatory
naive tusk
Ah, I see. I wouldn't call it terrible but whenever someone asks "what's the best?" it's obvious that people will have their opinions.
Like how people used to thrash talk Aspect of Zeus 
rocky sage
i feel every bow sucks also
naive tusk
Until they get used to it.
rocky sage
like literally every aspect
sacred idol
Zoom aspect is fun, but I am atrocious with it
neon bramble
Bow can be good
swift loom
I have the most success with the bow.
neon bramble
It's just a playstyle adjustment
cunning urchin
@naive tusk probably easy mode lol. I've cleared 20 with only Divine Strike and nothing else. Could probably go quite a bit higher than that.
neon bramble
You need to have a dash/PowerShot rhythm with the bow
sacred idol
And Malphon on every aspect
pastel jolt
i'm still terrible with the shield 😔
sacred idol
I'm worst with traditional sword
I can play Arthur. I get haplessly chunked with Stygius.
neon bramble
Malphon is love. Malphon is life.
swift loom
It's a different playstyle for sure.
By the way, I'm a simple man with simple needs, therefore big numbers make me happy, which is why I go for crits. Zags bow + anything Artemis.
cunning urchin
I think the Zagreus Aspect of Stygius is quite a lot of fun.
naive tusk
It's just that I was able to get away with many hits while I spammed attack. The deflect is too strong offensively and defensively. I really liked it but I felt bad for not taking a hit or two from Asterius huge axe swings.
rocky sage
how is rama?
sacred idol
@swift loom You want big numbers, try arthur, it's fun
neon bramble
But...
rocky sage
idk i feel like i cant do damage with the bow at all
neon bramble
It has some very powerful builds
cunning urchin
Yeah, Asterius without EM3 is free with Divine Strike.
rocky sage
my fav up until now was the one where ur special locks on the target
sacred idol
@cunning urchin also I am seriously wondering if I'm missing some perspective on Poseidon attack
rocky sage
but it does such little damage
cunning urchin
He can't hit you at all unless you really don't pay attention.
swift loom
@sacred idol I will, thanks.
sacred idol
Is there some strong build (not entirely reliant on sea storm) I'm missing that's making me undervalue its current power
naive tusk
@cunning urchin also I am seriously wondering if I'm missing some perspective on Poseidon attack
@sacred idol Do you want to watch me play with Poseidon Blade?
sacred idol
No, poseidon boon attack.
sterile portal
Yes
naive tusk
Ah, I just had a funny build with Tempest Strike yesterday.
sacred idol
I posted feedback about buffing its base damage and got a thumb down, but I genuinely want to know if it's a dangerous/potentially OP thing to ask for
neon bramble
@rocky sage use Chiron bow.
Use Aphrodite attack, Artemis special.
Get heart rend duo.
Enjoy massive Crits.
sacred idol
It's just odd to me that tempest is so low in base damage
Poseidon aspect I have always heard is really good for higher level play
naive tusk
Aspect of Lucifer + Tempest Strike + Razor Shoals + Sea Storm + Support Fire + Static Discharge
sacred idol
And most of Poseidon is crazy good now
turbid needle
Hydro Pump in action
sacred idol
Raw damage feels vaguely like it forces sea storm though, is all
sacred idol
And to have a weapon like Lucy to take advantage of its shenanigans potential
turbid needle
You still get great damage with Artemis on special
neon bramble
If you like Lucifer @naive tusk , try this:
naive tusk
Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Heart Rend with Chiron is 👌
rocky sage
also boiz has anyone liked the hammer upgrade of infinite ammo?
neon bramble
@rocky sage you can use trinkets to get the boons you want
sacred idol
Because of ROF delay?
naive tusk
That build looks awesome 
turbid needle
Which is why I call it alright
neon bramble
You can also try Zeus attack + Poseidon special and go for seastorm
sacred idol
Sea Storm build on it is apparently better with Poseidon attack
cunning urchin
@sacred idol Tempest Strike gives you a strong DOT, wall slam damage, debuff for Privileged, potential for a very strong Duo with Lord Zeus . . . Tempest Strike can make Satyr Tunnels a joke.
sacred idol
But I think Lucy is the only weapon it's that good on
Mmmm
But on bosses it needs status and wave pounding, yeah?
turbid needle
Kinda
naive tusk
@sacred idol Please don't use the word "gimpy" as it's offensive to people with disabilities.
turbid needle
But that's #PoseidonThings
naive tusk
Same goes to everyone else, please.
sacred idol
I mean more of... Poseidon flourish has high raw
So it can have all that and actual base damage.
turbid needle
Specials tend to be harder to use fast also, so there's that
sacred idol
What justifies Attack having less than half rather than like, at least 50-60%
Spammability?
turbid needle
But yeah, Poseidon strike being so low on damage is susp
sacred idol
On second thought near-aphro levels may be overkill
sacred idol
But I did say at least that much WITH wave pounding.
That might be fair
Not necessarily without
sterile portal
I put in feedback a while ago a suggestion to increse poseidon from base 30% to 40%
sacred idol
Oh, hm, yeah, that sounds like a good place to put it
sterile portal
aka matching with athena and demeter
turbid needle
Sounds about right
sacred idol
So the good utility tier? Sold
raw violet
my guess for poseidon is simply that wall slams have the potential of doing significant amounts of damage, but I don't know the numerical values to compare
sacred idol
Yeah, it's just for relative parity in bosses with a support boon
I think the new WP is potent enough to justify that
It's 20% now at rare?
turbid needle
Oh you don't need much forwall slams to do crazy damage, but it kinda relies on the Crushing Wave boon, the one that creates waves, for the most part
especially for Styx
cunning urchin
Attacks and specials aren't the same. Just because the Special does more damage doesn't mean the Attack needs to. Deadly Strike has much lower damage than Deadly Flourish, too. No one's complaining about Deadly Strike.
neon bramble
If you're going for slam damage, you want to maximize with breaking wave
naive tusk
@cunning urchin Have you tried a Tempest Strike Twin Fists run?
sacred idol
Deadly Strike has crit, though
neon bramble
It slams enemies like 3-5 times
sacred idol
So it's a lot more potential
sacred idol
Average damage of crit boons is higher overall, but 30% raw is 30% raw in a boss
cunning urchin
Your attacks can often wall slam much more rapidly than your specials.
You can wall slam bosses if they're close to a pillar or wall.
sacred idol
Overall after thinking it through I think firespirit is right - 40 wouldn't be stupid broken but it would be a nice midpoint between mob clear and boss use
sterile portal
The problem with poseidon is that it's decent on ranged weapons, and very rough on melee
cunning urchin
@naive tusk I did once, but that was quite awhile ago. I've been meaning to look into it more again sometime.
sterile portal
so boosting it to 40% base attack doesn't break it, but makes it a viable pickup
sterile portal
Yeah even on farming runs I only find it typically by late elysium/styx
it's the poseidon fishing legendary
turbid needle
Hence the "other"
naive tusk
I did a run with them once and it was hilarious
neon bramble
It has potential IF you go seastorm and can maximize Zeus support boons
But it's annoying
cunning urchin
Some boons being great at clearing chambers and bad vs bosses is fine, too.
sacred idol
Yeah, why is it so late to get
cunning urchin
Variety is good.
sterile portal
It's not always good at clearing chambers either though
Also the argument of "Poseidon is good with sea storm, rupture, zeus double strike/legendary" is almost saying "poseidon gets good with 5 boons and a duo"
which, strangely, makes most things pretty good
naive tusk
Ah, I've obtained Huge Catch in Asphodel/Tartarus before. It's hard to obtain early, and even so I didn't get the Chaos fishes I wanted 
Someday, hopefully...
neon bramble
I personally think razor shoals is lame
sterile portal
Just limit huge catch to already completed heat levels and make the only pre-req ocean's bounty or whatever
sacred idol
Razor shoals feels pretty good by itself tbh
naive tusk
It used to have only 1 prerequisite but they changed it to 2.
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, since that was the comparison earlier, is great out of the gate but does not really get that much stronger with t2 and t3 boons.
turbid needle
Heartbreak Strike's utility gets better, but not by much compared to those of the other gods yeah
sterile portal
I mean the duos, early poms, and boons in general still make it really really consistently strong
neon bramble
I don't like it because you can't stack it @sacred idol
And the enemy has to walk for it to work
sterile portal
Without that, it's still strong
sacred idol
Yeah, that's fair, Poseidon doesn't need to get kicked up to aphro tier by itself
Bosses move a fair bit
sterile portal
I only want poseidon to match athena in strength at least
neon bramble
Heartbreak flourish scales like crazy with poms though
cunning urchin
Some boons start slower but can get incredibly silly with the t2/3 boons, some are more consistent but don't become that silly.
naive tusk
I like to knock enemies away with Poseidon boons to trigger Razor Shoals damage too.
sterile portal
because deflect is silly strong, and yet athena does more damage than pos
sacred idol
By the way, does anyone know why tidal flourish does next to nothing on chiron in particular
Or did
cunning urchin
I think the issue is you want them to be equally viable or something for more challenging heats.
sterile portal
I want to feel like picking up poseidon on attack isn't shooting myself in the foot
sacred idol
Last I tried it, it was weirdly just not doing knockback. Do Poseidon boons add flat impulse or multiply existing yeetforce
Yeah, basically, if you run it you NEED sea storm and/or to be on lucy
turbid needle
Wouldn't be surprised if it was hardcoded for each weapon
sterile portal
I pick demeter more on attack on ranged weapons, where poseidon is supposed to shine the most
turbid needle
And hammers
sacred idol
Mmm, if it's specific, chiron always seemed bizarrely low
Like barely slows down an enemy walking low
cunning urchin
What do you "need" the Duo for?
sterile portal
I'm fine with poseidon's downside being "not so great when you want to keep enemies nearby i.e. melee weapons"
sacred idol
...well, for doing much of anything to a boss
turbid needle
Because World Splitter sword yeets enemies accross half the map, yet regular sword sends them an ok distance
sterile portal
but it should be at least decent on ranged of course
sacred idol
Knockback coding is a mystery.
sterile portal
Could you imagine? Poseidon on bow?
cunning urchin
Like I've said, you can wall slam bosses, too.
sacred idol
Yeetbow lol
sterile portal
but they move an inch
sacred idol
Probably a bit overkill
sterile portal
I don't expect poseidon to be wall slamming bosses
naive tusk
Could you imagine? Poseidon on bow?
@sterile portal I did that with Chiron. The knockback is amazing. Felis might remember that run I did.
sterile portal
just a little more damage
sterile portal
Peach, was it on special or attack?
sacred idol
Chiron special? @naive tusk
modest urchin
what's the difference between cornered and wall slam?
naive tusk
Don't you remember when I posted that Victory Screen months ago?
naive tusk
You commented on it lol
sacred idol
Really bad memory.
naive tusk
I still remember. It was magical
cunning urchin
I'm still not seeing the argument. When does Tempest Strike "need" more damage?
naive tusk
I think I still have it. Let me look for it....