the one for flamewheels?
#h1-builds-and-combat
stuck elbow
inner patrol
Really? I got Slavugs pretty easily. Course that was before the latest update that at least feels like they expanded the window for perfect catching
lament coral
whaaat
it's the only item I'm missing
I blew 3 rerolls on a well and still didn't get it
inner patrol
I've gotten it a couple times. Usually buy it because apart from Longspears they're the most annoying enemy in Elysium
stuck elbow
tbh I always horde gold
lament coral
see, I've been getting perfect catches pretty reliably before
stuck elbow
well, I'm doing so now because I want to make the greed sword hammer work
lament coral
and for some reason you get Flameaters for em
vernal cliff
Arthur exploit?
dry ember
There is an exploit?
verbal stump
probably not an exploit then, more like a neat trick. You can start your special then interrupt it with dask + attack, so when you finish the dash the special, dash strike damage, and special effect all activate at once
basically you can cast your special with 0 delay or wind-up
dry ember
Oh animation cancelling isn't really exploit imo
You can dash strike upper with one dash on fists for example
verbal stump
that's good to know
acoustic nova
demeter/athena duo is not super useful lol
verbal stump
btw i think I figure out how to get the charon fight event to show up. Aside from the first time, im pretty sure you need to have less gold than the price of any item in the shop for the gold pouch to show, and only in the shop that's not right before boss
acoustic nova
if you're in a position to use it, likely at the last boss the regeneration is just not good enough
verbal stump
can someone confirm
naive tusk
It's RNG. The amount of obols you have at the moment is irrelevant.
verbal stump
oh ok, probably just coincidence on my part then
verbal stump
yes, I would post a pic but it'll be off-topic
dry ember
We... have that
inner patrol
Man using the Yeety Stick is tricky
verbal stump
Arthur sword with the Aura hammer upgrade is so much fun, pretty much make traps and projectiles non-factors
calm grove
Does anyone know if it's possible you get a boon from every god in a single run?
carmine rivet
I don't know if it's technically possible or not, but it would be very unfeasible in my experience anyways. It's incredibly rare to get 4 different god boons in Tartarus, then you would need 3 keepsakes to force other gods in each zone following. Even then it would only net you 7/8.
lament coral
the game offers you 4 gods per run + Hermes
hushed ledge
Keepsakes do weird things though iirc
They forcibly add the god to the pool I think
lament coral
if you manage to get 4 in Tartarus, you could force 3 more with god keepsakes
red hound
i realised in higher difficulties they stop using god keepsakes
do they just roll for the correct one or just go with the flow
red hound
like in general
hushed ledge
It's a combination of going with the flow and also the value of defensive keepsakes goes up
red hound
mostly ive seen like coin starts
even tho i bring a god keepsake almost 100% of the time
lament coral
I do 32 and use god keepsakes all the time
red hound
because i decide what i want to build before my run starts
hushed ledge
I usually do god ks in ash
lament coral
and use the gold bag after I get my desired gods
red hound
hmm so i assume its just a preference
because i find zeus start with zag fists and rail to be pretty broken
so when pushing high its always that
lament coral
Zeus rail ye, I'm not sold on Zeus fist
I prefer the safety that Athena attack gives you
stuck elbow
tbh Zeus rail is 🙏
red hound
i dont go past 20 normally
red hound
so it doesnt get that hard
stuck elbow
and you are gonna roll
red hound
and once u hit up long knuckle its over for the boys in tartarus
hushed ledge
On 70% of aspects Zeus is just awful and other 30% it's great
inner patrol
Got all the way to Hades but my Yeety Stick skills failed me
red hound
thats what on hit effects do tho
if u hit fast u good
stuff like aphro and athena scales decently either way
turbid needle
Cool, coolcoolcool. Crash ate my really strong Lucifer run.
At least I got the video of the Aspect of Chaos run.
Twitch is still processing it, but it's a little over half an hour IRL, just under 18 minutes IGT.
tired elk
Stubborn Defiance or Death Defiance?
main osprey
recently I've been running DD
red hound
i lose 90% of my defiance at elysium and styx bosses so its DD for me
verbal ibex
i usually avoid zeus rooms like the plague, most of his boons are just bad
turbid needle
I feel like that video pretty nicely disproves that. He works differently than most other Olympians.
verbal ibex
i havent unlocked the new aspects, so maybe it works best with those
but overall i've been pretty unimpressed with zeus
turbid needle
It was Aspect of Chaos.
gloomy bone
Ugh. Ares and Aphrodite. My least favorite gods to get boons from.
verbal ibex
she's the highest %dmg buff isnt she
red hound
everything else is
zeus works amazing only with certain weapons
chiron bow is one
as well as fists and rail
verbal ibex
but it's really only his attack boon that's good with multi attack weapons
gloomy bone
Ares just doesn't seem with it unless I also am picking up Artemis, so that I can -maybe- get their duo. Otherwise, I'd prefer most other casts. Aphrodite's cast does the opposite of what I want a cast to do. It's short range, and while the damage is nice, it's too risky.
Weak as an effect just isn't as useful to me, whereas a cast that bounces, pushes enemies away, or get cause DoT effects are more my speed.
red hound
weak is just a stacking debuff that happens to have pretty impressive scalings
and dealing half damage is not bad however u put it tho
she does have a dps build with the dio duo
gloomy bone
It's bad if you're not getting hit in the first place haha
main osprey
I have never felt more free than when a -50% dodge distance chaos boon expires 
gloomy bone
Relying on Duos seems ill advised, since they won't always trigger. So an entire build centered around a Duo seems too hopeful.
Taking 30% less damage isn't bad on its own, but every other effect provides some advantage over the enemy. Pushing enemies away, freezing them, hitting them with extra damage, DoT... and the other boons just add to that. Aphrodite seems to be the choice if you want to be tanky, and are having a hard time dodging.
turbid needle
Or if you want to hit extremely hard without relying on stacking multiple boons.
verbal ibex
do you use the mirror's talent to have more duo boons ? I don't have that one, and i barely ever see duo boons
dry ember
it's a split of 30/70 for me with 30 being the duo/legend boon
for me I find getting a good epic boon that will carry you is more worthwhile than banking on a duo
gloomy bone
I always see Duos as a nice bonus, but not something to really plan on. Since RNG isn't going to always rant me what I want, and Duos are the rarest things out there from my understanding
thick raptor
I always stick with DD, some times need it for Theseus, but can usually recharge it by the time I'm at FB and often need two or all three there
I've also found that a heavy Zeus focus often works well, with the strike on dodge, jolt, and since I often Demeter their duo is great. His cast isnt bad especially for room clearing and if it has jolt.
Though it's definitely a bit weapon dependent, and I like running Zeus shield or Hestia
dry ember
Hestia is awesome :3
thick raptor
I've been hoarding titan blood out of indecisiveness of which aspects I want to use, except for Zeus and Hestia.
waxen imp
You know you gonna get all of them anyway, just use them
Smile
Oh and Lucifer with Zeus is just disgusting
primal cape
Hestia is good but I wouldn’t recommend leveling it up
waxen imp
Which one is hestia again
primal cape
Sorry I was thinking of heras bow hestia aspect is sniper rail
Hestia is actually really good to upgrade
waxen imp
I forgot what hestia was tho I'm not on my desktop
thick raptor
I need to hop back onto learning Hera, but Rama has become my bow mainstay
dry ember
The one that empowers the first manually reloaded shot.
waxen imp
Oh
primal cape
My tip for hera is start with dio keepsake pick up cast
Only use 1 cast at a time for consistent dps
Then use zeus and demeter keepsakes to try to double duo your cast
primal cape
Yup
dry ember
It's ok, if not optimal.
thick raptor
That exact double duo was used on my first FB win, tho not Hera
primal cape
Yeah it’s a great duo anywhere
Another good way to play hera is getting ares keepsake pick up cast, keepsake artemis for the duo
Then you can double down on artemis for double cast or legendary for more cast ammo
main osprey
@real nebula @tired elk Just tested it with gemstones from a Treasure Trove. No extra obol
tired elk
what's a treasure trove?
the chests?
There is no such thing on the wiki ;__;
@main osprey
dry ember
yeah, the chests where you have to do timed combats
tired elk
ah ok
primal cape
Do you think gemstones come too slowly as room rewards?
real nebula
ah they're called infernal gates sorry
primal cape
I’ve had the thirst gemstone bonus, 70% gemstone bonus from chaos and cleared a room to get 9
dry ember
A little bit, but you can get a decent amount of gems by getting to Styx and fish though.
primal cape
Most of my gen income is fishing and chests
dry ember
some gems from Tartarus fish, which spawns fairly consistently for at least 1, if not 2, the guaranteed fish in Styx
dry ember
hey there :3
thick raptor
Some of them cosmetics are really gem expensive, though I think I'm past the point of using them for any kind of plot unlock
latent moss
What are good boons to use with the new Exagryph aspect?
dry ember
Lightning Strike
latent moss
thanks 🙂
civic barn
doom is good on the special too 🙂
hybrid wave
OK so what's the strat for the new miniboss ||doomstone|| ?? I feel like I just have to facetank/DPS rush and it feels terrible
civic barn
||if there's no tiny stones behind you, the main doomstone shoots out in a very defined pattern where you don't even need to move||
additionally, if you play on middle management where they include a turret in the middle, you can actually quite easy make it hit the ||doomstone||
hybrid wave
Hmm OK - guess I need to slow down and really look at the fight cause right now it just feels like ||there are too many little mobs to really focus them and the pattern (while consistent) isn't spread out enough to avoid while hitting it w melee even if the little mobs weren't constantly emitting lasers amongst themselves||
primal cape
How would you suggest building talos & demeter aspect?
turbid needle
Talos can uniquely utilize Slicing Shot without HB.
Demeter wants either Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish. Build for Dash-Strike damage, abuse Dash-Upper.
cunning urchin
Divine Strike > Hunter Dash > Support Fire and Deadly Reversal for Talos. Divine Strike > Hunter Dash > Deadly Flourish (or Heartbreak Flourish), Support Fire, and Deadly Reversal for Demeter are very strong builds.
main osprey
If you just want a silly build, Tempest Flourish on Talos. It's not actually that great, but it's pretty funny
cunning urchin
Tidal Dash is more fun on Talos. 
Also, for Talos you wanna practice cancelling the magnetic pull into dash immediately.
It's rare that you'd want to do the Uppercut part of it.
If you want a cast build on Talos, I'd suggest Blizzard Shot and Demeter's Aid. Talos gives you unique control to pull enemies into your casts and call.
manic arrow
My bow builds always get crushed by tight deadline.... I am thinking maybe I am picking the wrong hammers or just playing badly too. Any advice?
turbid needle
What Aspect?
dry ember
what hammer are you picking?
cunning urchin
Spam Dash-Strike.
primal cape
I would also suggest not running tight deadline
manic arrow
well last time I went zag aspect, unfortunately had to go with sniper shot and the one that makes it charge slowly
primal cape
when charging slow you go for the shot as soon as they enter your range
manic arrow
i remember rama attack build with the triple shot and explosive shot went well
turbid needle
Explosive Shot actually isn't bad on Zag, but Twin Shot is its best standalone.
manic arrow
i guess gotta get lucky with hammers
mighty ermine
twin shot and perfect shot are great damage hammers for TD2, the latter if you consistently land power shots of course
turbid needle
If you can, Chain Shot and Triple Shot is really powerful together.
primal cape
perfect shot imo is terrible even if you can do it consistently
mighty ermine
chain shot no longer bounces off of the environment, unfortunately
turbid needle
Yeah, I'm not a fan of Perfect Shot.
mighty ermine
so it's not as amazing as it used to be
primal cape
I'd only take it if it's a secondary boost
turbid needle
Then probably Twin and Explosive.
mighty ermine
i like perfect shot considering consistent power shots is pretty simple for me
dry ember
actually Point Blank Shot is solid, too
turbid needle
I assume you're running Deadly Strike, then?
mighty ermine
ah yeah that too
turbid needle
Ooh, yeah, I haven't used the Bow much recently, PBS is probably great on Zag.
dry ember
Heartbreak Strike + Hunter Dash on Zag Bow for optimal damage
mighty ermine
yeah sometimes schpoon
primal cape
the easiest way to get a bow up and running imo is going chiron with dio special or hera bow with dio cast
either of those with those perks can carry your entire run
dry ember
Dio spec on Chiron doesn't sound that good if I am being honest
manic arrow
hmm i havent really played hera bow much
cunning urchin
You should try to make sure that you consistently land Power-Shots from Dash-Strikes anyway, and don't miss your shots because that's dropped DPS every time. Don't overcharge your shots, either, for enemies that you can kill with a quick release.
turbid needle
Heartbreak Strike -> Deadly Flourish on Chiron.
primal cape
Honestly I wasn't a fan of it till I tried it so, don't knock it till you try it
dry ember
fair enough
mighty ermine
i'm not really a fan of chiron in general but that's just a totally personal thing
red hound
chiron lacks alot of aoe
primal cape
any rank dio can make your special chiron melt, where % you typically need a purple to have similar effect
red hound
which u gotta remedy somewhere
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike + Hunter Dash on Zag Bow for optimal damage
Deadly Strike + Hunter Dash beats that.
dry ember
Just take Zag Bow and go Heartbreak Strike Hunter Dash and at least one of these hammers: PBS Twin Triple Chain Shot
turbid needle
With Dio you can just spray individual enemies over and over.
cunning urchin
Oh wait, on Zag Aspect you already have crits. Yeah, Heartbreak Strike, my bad.
turbid needle
Only 10% crits.
primal cape
if your going to take zag bow I'd suggest aphro attack, artemis special & athena dash that way you can get 3 duos
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike for the others.
dry ember
Divine Dash robs you of at least +50% damage though
turbid needle
I ran Hunter Dash up until Styx on my 32 clear with Zag Bow.
I switched to Divine Dash and the safety won me the run.
mighty ermine
lol
turbid needle
Just for the Heart Rend and Deadly Reversal spawn.
dry ember
dry ember
that's fine because I don't see any duo anyway
spring turret
funnily whenever i get a duo its always at styx
cunning urchin
I got Deadly Reversal the first chance on two consecutive runs lol.
primal cape
divine dash does rob you for the dash damage however it can let you get the deflect crit duo boon which will give your heartbreak strike tremendous damage potential
mighty ermine
when you get exclusive access or sweet nectar at the tail end of styx 
primal cape
I'm not sure what will be best on rama but i'm thinking on hit specials like dio/zeus/ares will be best
dry ember
Then it's a matter of taste but I almost never rely on duo boons
turbid needle
I actually took it in the fountain chamber a night or two ago for the full heal.
red hound
ares special actually makes alot of sense
turbid needle
Not every build needs Duos.
dry ember
especially now when everyone and their moms have one which dilutes the pool
spring turret
i checked and it doesnt seem to work if you use lasting consequences
dry ember
and you get less change to get on also
spring turret
so u cant cheese it with that boon
primal cape
I agree that not every build needs duo however making a build with the potential to have them can make your life alot easier
cunning urchin
Deadly Reversal from Divine Dash is effectively +40% damage if you have it up at all times and no other crit modifiers. Hunter dash is +50% at worst.
turbid needle
But Zag Bow has 10% innate crit chance at level 5.
dry ember
so it scales better with Hunter Dash
cunning urchin
Yes. If you have crit chance, Hunter Dash pulls ahead even further.
spring turret
its definitely better since its a duo boon but that requires good luck
which i dont have
cunning urchin
It's not better just because it's a Duo.
dry ember
I still stand by this:
Just take Zag Bow and go Heartbreak Strike Hunter Dash and at least one of these hammers: PBS Twin Triple Chain Shot
spring turret
well idk most duo boons are supposed to be better than normal ones
so you cant really compare a t1 to a duo
cunning urchin
Intention and effect are not always the same.
Deadly Reversal is great on a lot of builds.
spring turret
i didnt say always
mighty ermine
plenty of duos are also just unique, though, without much in the way of equivalents of other boons to compare i.e. sweet nectar, exclusive access, calculated risk
it isn't always just a better or worse scenario
spring turret
keyword being most, some duos are not that great
primal cape
I still hate lightning rod
mighty ermine
bring back freak accident please
serene nexus
Hmm. Should I take Mirage Shot, Sweet Nectar, or Blizzard shot. Need mirage and nectar for propheceis
mighty ermine
i still love the idea of lightning rod though
serene nexus
running demeter aspect fists
spring turret
what if it did its effect while lodged into enemies
that'd make it better
nerf dmg a little to compensate
mighty ermine
it would, but i do like how lightning rod actually makes use of inactive casts on the field
nothing else messes with that
spring turret
i guess but you just tend to get them back very quickly instinctively unless you consciously prevent yourself from going near them
mighty ermine
right, and i think if it were more powerful you could learn to stop yourself from doing that, for the sake of the duo's potential
but right now, that's def not the case
lol
spring turret
it would have to do enough dmg to carry you like that
cunning urchin
@serene nexus Blizzard Shot if you want the strongest pick. Mirage Shot for the prophecy if that's a priority.
dry ember
Lightning Rod just seems so unintuitive to me.
Like a cast boon that discourages you to use cast
spring turret
feels like worse scintillating feast
dry ember
Like why
I got offered Mirage Shot without any cast boon today
I was so confused, took it just for sale xD
mighty ermine
setting up what are essentially proximity mines that constantly pulse could be a fine transformation of cast if it was more impactful than it is now
dry ember
let the lightning lingers a bit
so you can pick up the cast and use them without feeling too bad.
cunning urchin
Lightning Rod solves the problem of your casts doing nothing when you yeet them out of bounds. They now make nice scenery.
dry ember
Cinematic% run when?
mighty ermine
ambient rumbling thunder in the distance... or over that one pond in hades' arena
because it's just too far for zag's little arms
cunning urchin
Exactly.
dry ember
the real ambient% xD
spring turret
scintilating feast kinda does that too with the poison clouds that create lightning
dry ember
Hades now doubles as thunder and rain noise for sleep therapy
spring turret
is exclusive access retroactive? like if u pick it up does your old boons become epic
dry ember
nope
spring turret
well damn
mighty ermine
that would be wildly powerful if so
spring turret
yeah i guess
spring turret
doesnt it stay at epic forever so you can't upgrade it to heroic or was that a bug
mighty ermine
how do you mean
turbid needle
No, Epic boons spawned from EA are upgradable.
spring turret
ok they fixed it then
livid comet
yooo
there's mini poms now!!!
😄
🍉
+1 level to a random boon
seems like
they're adorable
modest urchin
they are so good early game
main osprey
In his defense, they're really good :D
I certainly feel powerful after eating them :P
cunning urchin
Hm?
stuck elbow
Tbh I like to think it isn’t. But Zagreus only buys junk food and Pomegranates from Charon
Because he’s a picky eater
main osprey
he also buys giant candies that talk to him
stuck elbow
Hahaha
Plot twist: Zag straight up eats the boons
Zeus: Nephew! I come bearing gifts- What are you doing?!
Zag: mmm, electric
main osprey
om nom nom nom nom
livid comet
main osprey
hahaha
livid comet
complete with electricity
main osprey
huh
primal cape
when taking ravenous will do you get teh damage bonus if you put all your casts into hera bow for example?
mighty ermine
I believe so yeah
main osprey
how much damage does a regular bull rush do?
spring turret
40 dmg on base, 50 dmg un-castboosted beowulf
main osprey
aight, thanks
spring turret
cast one doubles when maxed
primal cape
how does the cast amplification work for beowolf?
spring turret
oh no i mean the dragon rush doubles in dmg when u max the aspect out
primal cape
the wording makes it imply it increases cast damage but 3 (non boon cast) still does 150 dmg
hushed ledge
My beo notes so far: don't use Zeus cast lol
I think the aspect increases the rush itself
Maybe?
primal cape
I'm doing dio cast currently looking to get double cast dio from zeus & demeter
spring turret
does double the dmg of regular bullrush if u load casts
hushed ledge
Hmm that means that doing endload is just bad
spring turret
yeah but that weapon is basically only the loaded bullrush
hushed ledge
Well yeah, but losing the ability to load casts you just rushed across and immediately use them hurts
You still can I guess
It's just suboptimal
spring turret
if u dont care about rush dmg its fine
cunning urchin
@hushed ledge do you actually have notes for the different aspects?
primal cape
I've concluded my favorite deadelus hammer for beo is charged fliglht
spring turret
what are some other really bad things to have on certain weapons
hushed ledge
Zeus attack on arth
primal cape
I would say dio & zeus is bad for attack & special on every variant of shield except for zeus special
spring turret
yeah zeus is bad on attack for slow weapons
hushed ledge
Chaos shield does a lot of stuff for making shield special viable
spring turret
also sword too
crisp yacht
Is there a list of dip books in the game anywhere
primal cape
I love ares on shield special
crisp yacht
Duo boons
spring turret
not in the game
crisp yacht
The wiki is outdated
spring turret
nor their requirements
need to datamine them to be 100% sure so goodluck to whoevers up for that.
primal cape
datamining is such a skill to learn
wish they would just tell you information like that
spring turret
yeah they have really no reason not to
primal cape
it's not like a PvP game where learning such information will make you have a unfair advantage against other players
crisp yacht
Thanks for the link
spring turret
I found Hades alot of reading to do when i first started because theres just nothing ingame that teaches you duo/legendary boons and how to get them
primal cape
yeah there's no tutorial on anything in the game to my knowledge
the best you have is the buttons telling you, your moveset when you first get to skelly
crisp yacht
I only learned about boon tiers by watching streamers
spring turret
Yeah same
spring turret
Jawless Paul helped alot
crisp yacht
Otherwise I would have nerve known
Same !
Jawless paw is who I watch for hades streams
spring turret
he also made some informative guides which helped alot early
primal cape
I watched some of his videos for the hell of it but i've played hades since the second patch so I kinda already learned everything before i found him
spring turret
I came on steam release so i was pretty late to the party
primal cape
I can understand that one
crisp yacht
I mean as in how you have to get certain boons before other boons from the same god would show hip
Up
You can’t get a legendary boon right away, you have to acquire a t1 boon first
spring turret
I didnt even know about tiers before i looked it up
primal cape
ah that, I learned about that when reading the wiki
hushed ledge
Getting hit by Theseus spear because you dodged instead of blocked is infuriating
main osprey
I've reported it with each new patch
When I see it
That way they know it's consistent
I agree that it's annoying though
cunning urchin
Does Jawless Paul do any high heat stuff? I've glimpsed their channel, but it all seemed like kinda basic stuff? (Nothing wrong with that if it is.)
hushed ledge
Welp lost this run time to setup notes
cunning urchin
Share your notes when you've written something.
hushed ledge
Will do
primal cape
I don't think he does much of high heat, from my memory checking his channel like 3/4 months ago
I only watched one video talking about heat and it was saying what you should take to make the game easier to play while still using heat
main osprey
@delicate mortar what do you mean, with your feedback? "gimp runs"?
hushed ledge
Make harder
They're claiming it only exists to make runs harder
Which like the high heat meta kinda goes "lmao" to
lament coral
it's just inferior to the double dash talent
the damage bonus doesn't matter because you get slapped around twice as much
hushed ledge
Stubborn defiance is the DD every room trait
lament coral
oh, that's a different comment, my b
but yesh, SD blows, too
since you don't die every room, you usually blow through DDs during a tough scuffle, against bosses or a bad combination of elites with Benefits Package
or when you run into senior ||Charon|| in Tartarus and he takes away all of your DDs
hushed ledge
They use SD to deal with that one no heals pact option
lament coral
that seems like a terribly niche use
hushed ledge
It is
lament coral
especially when Guan Yu already exists for that -100% healing schtick
hushed ledge
But it basically heals you to 30% every room in any run
Nah, because they generally use it for every run
Can't use GY on sword
lament coral
das fair, I see your angle
but considering DD's universal application, SD has to be better
stuck elbow
Tbh at that point I’d just fish for that one Dio boon that heals you to a certain threshold after every fight
lament coral
same with High Confidence and Fiery Presence
naive tusk
Twin Shot + Explosive Shot charge time leaves me like this 
https://streamable.com/3niek5
lament coral
@stuck elbow it doesn't work with Lasting Consequences
stuck elbow
Damn
lament coral
yep, it's a brick, same with Demeter's HP restoration boon
stuck elbow
@naive tusk I had time to finish the Last Dance by the time that shot went off
lament coral
which is why I suggested a while back that they should be removed from the pool of boons when LS is set to 100%, along with healing items in Charon's wells
you just blast em up close
stuck elbow
Yeah like I’m surprised they don’t do that at 100%
lament coral
Twin Shot + Explosive is the real Point Blank
stuck elbow
Like a ton of stuff just bricks
naive tusk
But Zepp, what about the dance? The song? The encore?
lament coral
it's blast or be blasted world out there
naive tusk
Living, in a blasted world
And I'm a blasting girl
lament coral
Come on, Peachy, let's go blasting
Ah-ah-ah, yeaaaaah
hushed ledge
cool setup the frame work for my notes document
Attack:
Special:
Cast:
Other Notes:
I have a block like this for every aspect
the sneak is sooo dumb
naive tusk
Go team!
clear dome
the hands?
hushed ledge
the spawns
lament coral
does he even give you time to dodge and punch him?
hushed ledge
uhhh
cunning urchin
I can't speak for other aspects, but Malphon at least has no problem with the Wretched Sneak—MM + FO2 or no.
And Tartarus is forgiving enough that you can easily heal up before the boss fight if you mess up a bit.
There's Sisyphus, easy troves, and enemy attack patterns are relatively easy to deal with, so you can heal up picking up Darkness.
lament coral
he just feels unnecessarily punishing compared to the bomb bones and the crystal
cunning urchin
Doomstone can hit pretty hard.
I haven't deliberately practiced the Sneak fight enough to give you any good tips on it, but he has no HP, so he just dies really fast.
He seems to reappear at a fixed rhythm, too.
civic barn
he's just a bit of a pain if you run anything debuff based; I usually just throw a summon when that's the case
i think only ||boudly and than||needs timing for it to land, and it's not super tight, i want to say?
main osprey
the problem with || Bouldy || is aiming the thing
cunning urchin
Yeah, I've hit him a number of times with Bouldy.
If you run a DOT build, you'll still have good enough base damage to kill him quickly with base attacks. His HP is very low.
@main osprey just be on top of whatever you want to hit.
main osprey
Yeah, I'm getting better at it
carmine rivet
Looking through game files, Shade gets 300 hp and 700 armor. not a lot for a miniboss.
native cipher
its really annoying how tanky he is given how frequently he teleports
cunning urchin
Malphon with Breaching Cross breaks that armor in two Dash-Strikes with no boons or anything.
350 damage to armor.
Wait no, base damage is 25.
250 damage.
Okay, three dash-strikes.
native cipher
has anyone posted the base numbers for the weapons anywhere?
carmine rivet
Each Infernal Arms' wiki page has its base damage and the modified damage of the Sword and Spear Legendary Aspects. The new Legendaries for Bow, Shield, and Rail will be updated in time (aka at least once I get them).
stiff jacinth
How much Ambrosia can I safely trade for Titan Blood?
I'm realizing that if I want to Git Gud I need to invest in some weapon upgrades
inland meadow
is flurry shot possible on rama bow?
cunning urchin
I haven't heard of anyone get Flurry Shot with it. Most likely no.
@stiff jacinth you can get one Ambrosia per clear, and you can trade 5 Chthonic Keys for 1 Nectar and 10 Nectar for 1 Ambrosia. So, you can trade in quite a few Ambrosia to help you clear faster because you can get it back later if you need any. But I can't give you an exact number, I'm afraid.
stiff jacinth
I'm sitting on like 15 of 'em at the moment
cunning urchin
Just gotta decide for yourself. I'd keep at least a few Ambrosia on me.
stiff jacinth
and basically none of my weapons are upgraded past lv1
except for as needed to unlock ||Aspect of Arthur||
I'm really paranoid about using it!!
cunning urchin
Hmm well you can max out any Zagreus Aspect with 5 Titan Blood.
The other aspects all need 15~16.
cunning urchin
Coronacht and Malphon have good Zag Aspects to max out.
1 level in Hera or 1 level in Poseidon is also really good.
Poseidon Aspect Lv.1 with True Shot and Exit Wounds can give you a lot fast clears early on.
Which will give you a lot more Titan Blood since you get 2 per clear.
inland meadow
why not recommend chaos shield tho?
cunning urchin
And Hera at Lv.1 with Stygian Soul is the same as Hera at Lv.1 with Stygian Soul.
stiff jacinth
takes copious notes
cunning urchin
Because Chaos Aspect needs to be maxed out to be strong.
inland meadow
fair
stiff jacinth
But the long and short of it is, I probably won't regret burning some ambrosia on this?
stiff jacinth
👍
inland meadow
you want to use it for relationships
inland meadow
assuming he is still clearing runs should be an issue maintaining a stock
shouldn't*
cunning urchin
I definitely plan to trade in a lot on my new Hell Mode save to max out certain aspects fast.
stiff jacinth
Hell Mode? Is that new?
cunning urchin
No, that's been in the game for awhile. At least since Steam "release".
Starts you with 1 unique pact and 4 pacts that you can't turn off.
So minimum heat is 5.
You can get bounties until 25 heat instead of 20 in normal mode.
Since you wouldn't get the bounties for 0–4 heat.
The unique pact is Personal Liability. It removes the brief invincibility you sometimes get after taking a particularly big hit of damage.
That's all the difference.
stiff jacinth
Aha
last furnace
I did
I found it pretty good
Really nice when you have ennemies close to each others
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike I think is the most common build on it at the moment and has been in the beta.
That's the one most people talk about.
native cipher
doesnt lightning strike have a fixed 0.2 second cooldown?
or is that only on zeus special?
cunning urchin
That's Thunder Flourish.
native cipher
ah, so it procs on every tick of lucifer aspect
cunning urchin
Yeah.
native cipher
how many ticks does lucifer aspect do per second?
cunning urchin
No idea. You could watch a replay and count.
cunning urchin
Stacking Doom hasn't been impressive at all before the current version, but the effect has been buffed, so it might work out a lot better now.
native cipher
doom and hangover have historically both been very underwealming
cunning urchin
Hangover can be very strong.
Dionysus' Aid especially is an incredibly strong call with possibly no competition for highest DPS over a run.
native cipher
i've considered dio and zeus aid to be the worst calls in the game for a while
cunning urchin
Although Zeus' Aid might be close or eventually even beat it out with enough T2 and T3 boons.
Dionysus' Aid just works right out of the gate with no boons needed to support it.
idle mantle
what are some good builds for hestia rail?
cunning urchin
What's important is to avoid the Greater Call because that gives you a lot less DPS than using a Lesser every chance you get.
cunning urchin
@idle mantle Deadly Strike + Hunter Dash.
idle mantle
what is deadly strike do
native cipher
the issue with dio and to a lesser extend zeus is that you need to put in a lot of work to make them live up to their potential.
like, yeah you could have a god-tier black-out/bad influence/low tolerance run all at level 5 and epic rarity
or
you could take artemis attack?
and get that damage right out of the gate?
cunning urchin
No, you don't need anything at all for Dionysus' Aid to beat out every other call in DPS.
native cipher
generally what i'm saying is that i think consistency is the most valuable thing in this game, and i don't feel dio centric builds are very consistent
cunning urchin
It applies Hangover to everything within a wide AOE and shreds Damage Control hearts like nothing.
You don't need to focus on it.
You just slap Dionysus' Aid on any build when you come across him.
Then you just mash your Call for the rest of the run pretty much any time it's up.
I'm willing to reroll 2-3 times on high heat just to get that call because of how strong it is.
native cipher
i'll give it a try. i generally prefer demeter or poseidon on my call
cunning urchin
Poseidon's Aid is amazing, too. That and Dionysus' Aid are my top picks.
But it can't shred through DC2 like Dionysus' Aid can.
hushed ledge
Yeah I've become a big fan of Dio call
cunning urchin
So I'll favor Dionysus' Aid when I run that pact.
tired elk
Do you guys like Fated Authority or Persuasion?
native cipher
demeter can. and she also basically instantly applies 10 stacks of chill to everything on the screen
cunning urchin
Persuasion, personally. But a lot of people favor Authority.
hushed ledge
Trippy shot is garbo on Lucy btw
cunning urchin
You can't go wrong with either, really.
native cipher
authority imho.
native cipher
||tipsy shot was such a better name||
cunning urchin
Demeter's Aid can also miss a lot of targets because it's stationary. That can be a problem with FO2 and Speeders in particular.
But yeah it's not bad.
tired elk
Legacy or Pride?
inner heath
imo if you're running the pact option where you have less boon choices, being able to reroll boons becomes a lot more valuable than choosing which god you get. If you're not running that pact than it can be more valuable to force a god rather than a boon. But as Nyaanyaa said, it's all personal preference anyway. That's just my take on what I pick.
tired elk
I've been liking Legacy cause of the deflect boon is so nice with Doom with Chaos Shield lol
grave compass
Havent had the chance to oick up the new update yet 😭 all downloaded and should be losing the weekend to it 😁
Any recommendations for some fun duos/builds? No spoilers just like "try aiming for these 2 gods or with this weopon"
cunning urchin
The only calls I tend to avoid are Ares' Aid and Artemis' Aid. Although Ares' Aid received a nice buff at least.
inner heath
athena/ares with zag fist is one of my favorite
tired elk
I use Ares Call all the time
native cipher
i hesitate to call artemis' aid bad
inner heath
I also really like aphro/dio chaos shield
tired elk
I'm just at the chaos shield crutch stage though
so I'll learn how to play the game once I can't reach any higher heat the with the shield lol
native cipher
definitely low tier tho
inner heath
Other than that, I don't particularly look for duos
tired elk
Olympians favor? @native cipher
cunning urchin
Artemis' Aid I pick if I have to and sell it the next chance I get, so I can pick up something else.
tired elk
and olympian's legacy?
inner heath
Anything Artemis and anything Athena is always good
hushed ledge
Aphro/Zeus with the Hermes call buff @grave compass
tired elk
are you talking about the bottom row?
cause that is Fated Authority and Fated Persuasion
native cipher
the ladies of olympus are god tier
all of them
artemis, aphrodite, athena, demeter
hushed ledge
Well yeah
inner heath
"god tier" lol
hushed ledge
They're on Olympus
tired elk
Literal gods
inner heath
Yes, yes they are
cunning urchin
@tired elk I just pick rare+ and epic+ from the mirror. Those make sure you get consistently good DPS in your runs.
native cipher
if you have one of them, your run is basically set
hushed ledge
Imo dem is not T1 with the rest of them
inland meadow
recommendations for a rama build?
native cipher
artemis on attack
hushed ledge
Zeus special
native cipher
athena on dash
inner heath
toaster was trying a zeus special yesterday and it seemed well. Attack was more flexible
Theorycrafting it, you have a lot of options for Rama since it uses both attack and special prominently. IDK if anyone's really done a deep dive with it yet to find a meta build though
cunning urchin
If you take Deadly Strike, get Hunter Dash. Otherwise take Heartbreak Strike for better damage.
inland meadow
is it possible to get flurry shot on rama?
inner heath
No? And that's an actual question mark. I haven't seen it encountered, yeah.
native cipher
so probs no
cunning urchin
I haven't heard of anyone getting Flurry Shot with it. Most likely no.
I think we can rule it out at this point without needing to verify the game files.
native cipher
ngl rama is one of my favorite aspects in the game
inner heath
I am not a fan
native cipher
bow in general is just a really fun weapon to use*
inner heath
But I never particularly like anything that's slow
I value my mobility more than most, I think
inner heath
Yeah, but the other aspects aren't nearly as slow as Rama
And on low/no heat I really like Hera
But any bow can be a run winner, fortunately
native cipher
i mean at least its not the cbt that is excalibur
inner heath
Excalibur balances the slow a little bit more though with slowing enemies down and being able to tank damage. The problem for me with Rama's slow is that it has no defensive balance like Excalibur. With Rama, you need to maintain your distance and not get hit/stunned from your windup
Makes it much harder for me to play/appreciate than Excalibur
I love how unique it is and it truly brings something new to the bow. But definitely not my thing
scenic lodge
Anyone notice the punches with the Zag aspect on Malphon are faster when not hitting an enemy? Or is it just an FPS thing since I play at ~30fps
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's intentional.
carmine rivet
Ooooo, Nyaanyaa said something illegal
cunning urchin
The link had an unfortunate combination of letters with "hit" in it lol.
carmine rivet
Hahah
cunning urchin
It's called hitstop. https://mynintendonews.com/2015/11/12/sakurai-talks-about-the-term-hitstop-used-in-fighting-games/
Or sometimes hit freeze.
scenic lodge
So that’s why the axe in God of War feels so satisfying when it hits
cunning urchin
Or the 4th Stygius aspect if you hit with the third attack in your basic combo.
scenic lodge
Oh yeah the big swing
carmine rivet
200 base damage in a wide arc is also very satisfying
scenic lodge
I don’t think the fists should have hitstop though. I just wanna go full Jotaro really
cunning urchin
I like it a lot. It's fun.
scenic lodge
The build up to the big swing makes it so much satisfying too
The way Zag just puts his whole body into it
brisk island
[New Boss] || Charon || someone tried defeat it with increased speed (20%) & one dash?
Feels near impossible, if don't deal good amount of damage.
scenic lodge
The ||big swing he does with his oar|| hits like a truck. Quite hard to dodge sometimes too
cunning urchin
1 dash just makes every boss fight a lot harder. Although Hestia in particular can handle 1 dash amazingly well.
scenic lodge
it’s so strong it feels like it takes off a death defiance per hit lmao
carmine rivet
The ||oar swing|| was definitely the most devastating part of the fight for me. The knock-stun wasn't that bad because they didn't attack after it, and the ||soul-waves||, while very cool, weren't much of a problem either.
cunning urchin
These notes from Krashercorr might help you figure out the fight. He did it with 2 dashes, though. https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/725220739200057404
brisk island
With one dash, game become harder - but not much. (even dodging 95% of all || Hades || attacks). Problem of || Charon || is huge purple swing which cover 25-35% of arena, with very little time to react 
Don't like it... but dunno deserve it nerf or not.
cunning urchin
Yeah, his notes will help you deal with that attack.
He did the fight hitless with 2 dashes. He's got a lot of experience in it.
scenic lodge
I just realized ||Charon gives you a literal paddling|| in that fight
wintry plume
i'm trying to beat hades with all the weapons, what's a good build for Talos fists?
dull karma
So, how viable is multi dash generally? My setup is different to where I just dash to move rather than using WASD. I usually go single dash because when I multi dash I find myself taking way too much damage in ||Asphodel||
scenic lodge
I just go Artemis on the fists
dull karma
I go full Demeter on the fists for me
wintry plume
I just realized ||Charon gives you a literal paddling|| in that fight
@scenic lodge wasn't there a story about a guy who was bound to wheelchair because someone at a convention spanked his knees so hard with a yaoi paddle they destroyed them?
scenic lodge
@scenic lodge wasn't there a story about a guy who was bound to wheelchair because someone at a convention spanked his knees so hard with a yaoi paddle they destroyed them?
@wintry plume I do not know about that story. It’s... interesting I’ll say
The other fist aspects I find to be kinda meh. Zag aspect with the dodge chance is really good for a muhammad ali build
wintry plume
@scenic lodge oh there was this video about a "yaoi paddle" and thought about ||Charon||
scenic lodge
stick a hermes trinket with the zag fists and go full artemis crit build and profit
wintry plume
i need to do heat runs before using blood on the weapons, don't wanna waste a single drop
but i'll try when i'll make them useful with blood thanks!
scenic lodge
The main factor really is what weapon you’re comfortable with using
dry ember
Symbo does it have to be Talos specifically?
cunning urchin
@wintry plume really the same builds you would use on Zagreus Aspect. Divine Strike > Hunter Dash > Support Fire + Deadly Reversal is very safe. Curse of Agony + Divine Dash + Merciful End is very strong. Lightning Strike + Divine Dash is also very strong.
The only difference as far as builds go is that Talos can also work very well with cast builds. With Blizzard Shot and Demeter's Aid, Talos has the unique ability to pull enemies right into the AOE of those attacks. It's like a pure control build with tons of damage.
What's important for Talos is to cancel the Special into a Dash immediately. That way you only get the magnetic pull into an immediate safe dash. The dash can easily get you behind enemies for backstab damage, too. The times you actually want to use the Uppercut part of the pull are very very rare because it's very unsafe in most situations.
scenic lodge
My best runs are with the fists since I really like the quick hit and dash style of play they give you
wintry plume
@dry ember yeah preferably
dull karma
I don’t know why, but I really love Athena’s Divine Dash. Might just be my play style though
wintry plume
i'll try the first one nyaa and tell you how it went
carmine rivet
It's a good crutch at any level
wintry plume
Divine dash is my religion
cunning urchin
I've never found Deadly Strike to be particularly effective on Malphon any time I've tried it.
Deadly Flourish on Demeter Aspect, however, is incredibly strong.
On the other two aspects, a flourish boon doesn't tend to matter much at all.
wintry plume
oh yeah on demeter i can imagine
i just really want to finish the prophecy before using heat 
milking the bounties
native cipher
malphon is like zagreus rail. anything that gains value from rapid hits is something you get value out of. so like, dio, zeus, demeter...
cunning urchin
@dull karma switching from 2 dashes to 1 dash on very high heat is like changing the difficulty setting from normal to ultra hard. Being stuck in dash recovery without the ability to i-frame with a second dash makes things a whole lot harder.
For 0~20 heat, I would say both are very viable. If you have Ruthless Reflex + an Epic Greatest Reflex from Lord Hermes, that's much stronger than the Greater Reflex talent + the same boon. But that requires a specific boon, so it's too RNG dependent for high heat.
native cipher
greatest reflex is basically the best hermes boon
dodge chance is nice too
||side hustle sleeper op||
carmine rivet
Unless I have a good Dash-Strike buff or Dash boon, I prefer Evasion over Reflex tbh
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike and Tempest Strike in my opinion are the weakest attack boons for Malphon by far.
Drunken Strike can work well vs mob waves, but it's very very poor in single-target damage vs minibosses and bosses compared to other options.
dull karma
Interesting. I pretty much play exclusively ruthless reflex. Greatest reflex is a double edged sword for me. I prefer evasion. Then again, I play almost entirely in God Mode, so that factors in as well. And the highest I’ve gotten is heat 10
cunning urchin
The better you are at i-framing attacks with dashes, the more 2 dashes will outshine 1 dash.
Until at some point you're perfect at i-framing attacks with 1 dash, I suppose. But I don't know anyone who's reached that level lol.
inner heath
Yeah, that dash is just way too useful, but if you don't need it the way you enjoy the game, then that's great! It might be worth experimenting with more though if you decide to try and climb the heat ladder
cunning urchin
I used Ruthless Reflex on Malphon for most of 0~20 heat.
Basically, the difference only really starts to matter at heat levels that really push you to your limit.
dull karma
What’s really fun is getting Chain Skewer on Achilles Aspect
cunning urchin
Err.
inner heath
Agreed. I want to get good with that aspect because I think it offers insane mobility, but I rarely play spear and prefer Guan Yu
iron shale
i am on like 10 heat now
kind marten
I use Ruthless Reflex and do alright, but I will no-brain pick extra dashes from Hermes. If you can manage with only 1 dash, it's a great damage boost and evade. But outrunning chariots is hell.
cunning urchin
TD2 for me is pretty free.
stoic thicket
The fists tend to be one of the weapons that are less effected by Damage Control than others.
native cipher
FO should be something you have on all the time. get the muscle memory down for that.
iron shale
what was fo ?
native cipher
forced overtime
stoic thicket
Forced Overtime = faster mobs.
cunning urchin
I don't agree with any "shoulds". Just pick whatever you enjoy.
iron shale
the first i play with is msotly middle management and the boss thing
cunning urchin
TD2, FO2, EM2 shouldn't be too hard to deal with, and you get a lot of practice evading attacks.
EM3 I personally avoided until 41 heat lol.
stoic thicket
TD1 at least is almost always doable, even if you have trouble with TD2.
kind marten
I use EM, MM, FO, and Jury summons but I don't really know what to use aside from that to push heat past 18-20 ish. What's TD2 again?
cunning urchin
Tight Deadline 2.
inner heath
Whenever I do farm runs for darkness I use Extreme Measures 3 because I just find those bosses fun and good practice. That and Forced Overtime felt like great practice for getting better, but certainly not efficient time-wise. Especially using EM3 with Tight Deadlines 2
stoic thicket
Jury Summons is generally one of the more awkward ones to have.
native cipher
generally, the big danger ones (in my eyes) are LC3+, BP2, RI, and AP
cunning urchin
Jury Summons makes Tight Deadline harder, so you want to avoid pacts like that if you use TD2.
EM3 is a slow fight even if you're good at it.
inner heath
Routine Inspection can be kinda free for level 1, depending on how upgraded your mirror is. Especially since rerolls can be obtained through keys now.
cunning urchin
Unless you have specific builds like Blizzard Shot.
dull karma
I tried EM 3 once, got destroyed
inner heath
But after level 1 RI is insanely hard
cunning urchin
EM3 alone can end runs if you use TD2.
stoic thicket
If you can get your run length to <25 minutes consistently then TD1 at least should not be much of an issue. It's almost always free heat.
inner heath
I honestly haven't really tried past RI1, but you have the experience. It just seems so daunting to even try
stoic thicket
What does RI2 axe?
inner heath
Each level takes the bottom 3 rows of your mirror away from you
cunning urchin
stoic thicket
Yeah, I know that. Just didn't know by heart what gets lost.
inner heath
SO RI2 would take away everything from Deep Pockets on
cunning urchin
Faster to just link that lol.
inner heath
That's...money, health, damage, rarity, rerolls
essentially, depending on which side you do your mirror
stoic thicket
RI2 seems doable, even if Family Favorite / Priv status hurts.
native cipher
RI 1- FA,GP,OF
RI2- PS,TS,DP
RI3- IS,BB,GR
cunning urchin
Malphon is possibly the best weapon at beating TD2 consistently without much effort at anything up to 20 heat. I did 20-heat TD2 with Divine Strike and nothing else.
inner heath
I'm more worried about losing Thick Skin to be honest, as it just changes my routing I'd imagine
native cipher
really? even better than the shield?
cunning urchin
It will also teach you to be aggressive, which is what you want to be with Malphon.
stoic thicket
Yup, the fists are consistently my fastest weapon too.
inner heath
I almost never take hearts in the first 20ish heat, because I'll be forced to take them at some point. Losing thick skin loses a lot of that safety net for me.
cunning urchin
Well, I guess Chaos Aspect is up there, too.
native cipher
well i guess fists are basically sword 2: revengance
so it makes sense they'd have the clear speed
inner heath
Zag Fists are my new favorite weapon for sure
cunning urchin
Heart Chambers have more value than Obol chambers or Pom chambers.
inner heath
I love them
native cipher
obol > heart imho
dull karma
For me Zeus Aspect is super strong.
inner heath
I can imagine that being true at later heat, but I rarely lose DD in the low (<20) heat I usually play, so taking health just seems...wasteful
cunning urchin
Obol chambers are worth 100. Heart chambers are worth 125.
inner heath
But that's because I've only been farming darkness and story progression recently
Once I go back to trying to climb the ladder that may change
native cipher
but obol can also be translated to healing or a boon
cunning urchin
The more points you put into Convience Fee, the more value the Heart chamber gets, and the less value the Obol chamber gets.
inner heath
^ Yeah, that seems unarguably true
native cipher
i mean, yeah but you never said we were using CF
inner heath
Very true. Nyaanyaa is a high heat master though, so if I had to guess it's something that's on consistently in those runs?
(That's an actual question, btw)
cunning urchin
Hmm. I actually avoid CF2 if I can, CF1 lets me buy more boons.
inner heath
Makes sense. That 40 vs 80 is significant. Good to know
native cipher
since high heat runs are more about what you leave out vs what you take
what pacts do you typically skip?
cunning urchin
I don't like LC4 at all.
inner heath
Oh, I know some of these. EM3 because it doesn't work well with TD2. The Lasting Consequences (healing diminished) maxed, because no healing sucks.
Jury Summons at a lower level if possible depending on heat, because once again it takes time from TD2
cunning urchin
RI4 runs I lower the heat a lot. We only did three 32+ runs with RI4 so far, and that was 32, 33, and 34 heat lol.
inner heath
Damage control depending on weapon aspect? Like if you're running Hestia Rail DC2 sucks
cunning urchin
EM3 is default at 40+ to be honest.
inner heath
(not undoable though since you can break DC with regular left clicks/not charged shots, but it's super time consuming too)
cunning urchin
32 I'd pass on EM3 maybe.
I also only play Malphon, so I can't comment on other weapons except some general theories I have and know about.
inner heath
Makes sense. You have a lot less options on 40+
Approval Process 2 is a good one to avoid at lower heats, unless you want the fun of the RNG
Approval Process 1 isn't super-bad though, especially if you take rerolls on boon offerings
kind marten
what about HL, BP, UC, and HS? Are those defaults?
inner heath
I asked this yesterday too. I don't remember who responded, but they said "TD2, FO2, BP2, MM, EM2~3, JS3, CP2 are all essentially default at 40+. At 32 you have more wiggle room for MM, EM, JS, CP, but TD2 and FO2 are default for most 32 runs.
DC2 depends on the weapon."
cunning urchin
That was me lol.
cunning urchin
Except Tailesque added that he doesn't pick Calisthenics Program.
cunning urchin
Not something that's been asked, but a general tip since we were on the topic of reward value: only enter Charon's shop if you can buy at least 2 gold laurel rewards (that's ~300 obols with CF at 0) or if you're pressed for time with TD2—or on the rare occasion that the other reward seriously sucks, and you really need something specific for your build.
inner heath
Honestly, I don't know the HP numbers, but I feel like CP2 isn't awful
Even with a 1khp enemy, you're adding 300 hp, which doesn't seem like that big of a buff to HP considering how easy it can be to pump out damage with a good build. I feel like some builds just overkill in terms of HP and DPS
cunning urchin
JS and CP should be hell with TD tkough
takes so long
Elysium is usually the main problem for high heat runs because of that and why we look for max DPS with the fewest boons in our builds.
inner heath
But Nyaanyaa would definitely know better as she has much more experience than me, so she may contradict that
cunning urchin
It basically comes down to how consistently your build can clear Elysium with TD2 at those heats. That's why certain weapons like Hestia avoid DC at all cost.
inner heath
Right now I'm in the "always enter Charon's shop" phase because I still need more loyalty cards for the codex. Yay farming runs
cunning urchin
lol yeah that works. It's mostly something to keep in mind if you have difficulty clearing the run.
inner heath
Yeah, it was good advice, thanks.
native cipher
does charon's stats change depending on the zone he spawns in?
inner heath
Something I'm definitely guilty of otherwise.
^ I don't think so? Totally anecdotal, but I haven't noticed anything myself.
cunning urchin
Basically it's like Charon's Shop takes 1 gold laurel reward away from that region if you enter it. So if you enter only to buy 1 gold laurel reward that you could have gotten eventually for free, that's negative value.
inner heath
Makes sense
cunning urchin
If you can buy 2 gold laurel rewards, that's 2 rewards for 1 room.
native cipher
generally i play in such a way where i'm always able to buy out charons shop when i enter it
turbid needle
doesnt charon also appear as grey laurels
native cipher
he does
turbid needle
do they also take gold ones away?
cunning urchin
Waiting until you have enough for 3 items I think is overkill.
native cipher
well, i always have enough money for 3 items when they appear
cunning urchin
I think so. But ! chambers for me are always worth it unless the other reward is exactly what I need in my build.
Sisyphus I always take the free money unless I really screwed up and need the healing. But even then it's often better to take the money and spend some of it on healing when you get the chance.
native cipher
the two best chaos boons are money and god rarity dont @ me
turbid needle
oh
cunning urchin
Also, always heal up when you need to in order to avoid losing a DD. But don't bother healing if you don't need to unless you have a lot of cash on you.
turbid needle
I feel like chaos got worse with the update bc their pool has more bad boons now x)
native cipher
yeah, i know right
turbid needle
gemfarming is apprechated though
cunning urchin
I hope I didn't miss any questions. There were a lot as soon as somebody called me "high heat master" lol.
carmine rivet
I feel so bad for Tisiphone doing her bullet hell maneuver when I have Divine Strike. Just melts, the poor thing.
stoic thicket
Yup, Chaos isn't really worth it most of the time imo. You give up another room, and a chunk of health, and you get a debuff that can range between inconsequential and excruciatingly debilitating, for the chance of getting like one or two of the boons in his pool you really care about. I found myself often just grabbing what screwed me over the least instead of what I wanted.
inner heath
To be fair I wasn't wrong
native cipher
i take chaos whenever i can
cunning urchin
Chaos Gates save time in Elysium.
native cipher
well, unless i'm going TD
getting a chaos boon for gold or god rarity early on snowballs a run hard
stoic thicket
Of course there's valid reasons to take gates, like saving time and avoiding room battles, but for actually getting a boon the dilution of his pool has made it much less worthwhile.
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's true.
turbid needle
I like choas its just when I ran without persuasion I feel like I can't risk it anymore
inner heath
I take Chaos every time when not climbing the ladder and I still haven't seen a fishing spot since they added fish to the codex 😦
stoic thicket
Yeah, running Persuasion also makes it more worth, just because of more chances of actually getting something you want.
turbid needle
I only got 2 chaos fish ever in 84hours of playing
inner heath
I was really hoping they'd change how Chaos fish spawned with this update
carmine rivet
I mean, Skeletal Lure. But yeah...
native cipher
i was kind of hoping they'd change how charon shop buffs work in general
cunning urchin
One thing particularly strong about Chaos boons at high heat is that you never have to sacrifice them for Underworld Customs.
inner heath
Yeah, but you essentially need the lure to be offered in the same room that Chaos is offered, and that's pretty RNG-heavy too
native cipher
i wish that buying a buff that you already had added to the duration/uses, not stacked with each other
cunning urchin
Well, it just shows as Lv.2. You still get the effect from both.
inner heath
No, I think they mean like buying jerky twice. It'd be nice if it lengthened the total rooms
native cipher
yeah, i know, it's just an issue of i'd rather have 2 uses of yarn of ariadne than one
cunning urchin
Oh, I thought you were talking about Chaos Boons stacking, for some reason.
native cipher
ah lol
cunning urchin
If you get the exact same Chaos boon twice, it will show as Lv.2.
inland meadow
ok so how does hermes special speed boon affect lucifer bombs
does it increase the tic rate? the speed at which they deploy?
inner heath
My guess would be that they deploy quicker, but I'd need a dataminer or someone to count frames to confirm/deny
scenic lodge
Deploy speed iirc
cunning urchin
I've used the rail exactly 8 times. AMA.
native cipher
why would you even take hermes special/attack buffs? i have never felt the impact of those.
inner heath
Or a dev
Depends on your build. Adding attack speed buff to say Zag Rail is a nice dps boost
scenic lodge
The attack speed buffs are pretty good though
inner heath
But adding attack speed buff to say Hestia Rail is downright uselss
cunning urchin
Because better attack speed means more DPS.
inland meadow
i'm using lucifer
turbid needle
hermes can be super good
inland meadow
between 2.5 regen speed for cast and +21% special speed
native cipher
the hermes special/attack buffs feel like bouldy joke buffs imho
cunning urchin
I get Swift Strike a lot with Malphon.
turbid needle
depends on the weapon some arent as affected
scenic lodge
with the heroic attack speed boost on the lucifer rail and the hammer upgrades that increase ramp up your dps becomes ungodly lmao
turbid needle
I always apprechiate faster attacks though
inner heath
Yeah, if you don't like them that's cool. That's the nice thing about the diversity of build options, but really they're there for DPS boosts and definitely don't work well with all aspects/builds
cunning urchin
After Heartbreak Strike, Swift Strike might be the single best boon on Excalibur.
inner heath
Also they can be used for defensive/mobility buffs too
I was about to say Excalibur as a good example, but Nyaa beat me to it
turbid needle
getting swift flourish on rama was nice
inner heath
Mostly (for me) not the dps boost but the ability to be more mobile by having less animation lock for the strike to hit
cunning urchin
Swift Flourish on Demeter Aspect is great, too. Anything to make that Dash-Upper faster beause there's inherent risk in using it.
scenic lodge
I use the fists a lot but I rarely use the dash-upper. What’s so good about it?
native cipher
big damij
inner heath
For Demeter aspect it does more damage
native holly
What is everyone opinion on the Zagreus aspect of the Stygian blade? I passed it up for the crit sword but have been thinking more and more that it might be a nice passive buff to have more move speed
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect gives you +5 hits for your Special every 12 hits. And Dash-Upper with +5 hits will deal more damage than a regular Uppercut with +5 hits. It's also a lot faster and safer to use.
inner heath
@native holly I'm trying to get better with Nemesis, but Zagreus aspect certainly has value. Probably not the strongest sword overall if you're trying to meta the game down, but the nice thing is all aspects can win a run as none of them are bad
scenic lodge
I see. I just use the Zag aspect so the dash upper’s kinda meh on it
cunning urchin
Dash-Upper also gets damage from any Dash-Strike boons you have.
native cipher
zag aspect is honestly really good imho
scenic lodge
Does dash upper benefit from the +1000% to armor upgrade?
cunning urchin
No.
native cipher
stack that with greater evasion, plume, and/or second wind and its super nice
cunning urchin
+900% now, by the way.
scenic lodge
Aw they nerfed it
cunning urchin
One tip is that you can do Dash-Strike into Dash-Upper with 1 dash. You just press Special immediately after the Dash-Strike, and Zagreus will immediately do the Dash-Upper afterwards.
scenic lodge
I loved one shotting the armor off enemies
native holly
@inner heath yeah that's what I like about the game, anything can be viable. Was more thinking in terms of farming efficiency with the sword though. Move speed could translate to shorter room clear times, reducing the amount of time you have to invest to collect the same amount of resources
cunning urchin
The nerf honestly makes practically no difference. It still cuts through armor like butter lol.
inner heath
Oh yeah, blinddeafmute. It has its value. It's never a bad pick. Just might not be the most optimal pick at the highest echelons of the game which is what I meant by meta pick. But for 99.9% of players, including myself, it totally works.
cunning urchin
I think you still need the same number of hits to cut through armor on virtually everything, too.
Movement Speed makes very little difference for clear speed.
scenic lodge
If it still works like it used to, I’m not complaining then
inner heath
@native holly For farming it's probably amazing. I never farm with sword, so I couldn't say personally, but I can immediately see the value.
cunning urchin
DPS and dashes are what you want for that.
native holly
Gotta say this is one of the reasons I love Supergiant games! Very little seems like auto pick and obviously the game is still in early access so overall the balance seems pretty good
native cipher
i mean on 32+ heat, the only viable aspects are the ones that can dps race the hp numbers of CP/DC/BP enemies
which means hestia, demeter, hera, and shield(tm) basically exclusively
cunning urchin
Every aspect is viable on 32+.
native holly
Ah, see I'm not super high heat yet
cunning urchin
40+ you're starting to see some limits, but I don't think we've pushed anything to its limit yet.
Also, yeah, Uppercuts don't matter very much with Zag Aspect or Talos. Talos only uses the Special for the pull, really, to get control of the battle or get easy backstabs.
inner heath
^ truth. And in the high heat channel, there's been clears at 40+ with both Poseidon and Excalibur
inner heath
Wristle13 did it at 46 heat. It's in the pinned docs, but here's a direct link too in the spoiler if you want to watch it ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKRi-f2rwSQ||
cunning urchin
There's a pin in #h1-high-heat-strategies that has lists and has links for all the 40+ clears that have been recorded. You can check out the run there if you like.
inner heath
Oh, I thought if I spoilered it, it'd remove the preview. Guess not
turbid needle
great big boi dmg
cunning urchin
Most 40+ runs are seeded.
I believe Tailesque and I are the only ones who don't use seeds.
turbid needle
yeah at this point u gotta restart till you get good starting boons
inner heath
Actually, question for you Nyaanyaa
turbid needle
esp with only 1 option
cunning urchin
You don't really have to, but it makes the runs a lot more consistent, I suppose.
inner heath
- What heat did you start with to practice "high heat" or did you work your way up slowly from say heat 1?
There's no question 2 I don't know why I put a 1. there
cunning urchin
0~20 > 32 > 41 > RI4 20 > RI4 33.
inner heath
Sweet, thanks.
cunning urchin
I think the best practice for high heat is to practice on high heat.
inner heath
Is 32 considered the high heat starting point?
by most, I guess. I imagine there might not be a universal answer there
turbid needle
I think ppl consider 20+ high
cunning urchin
Dunno. For me personally, I consider 31 and below low heat unless you use RI4 or maybe LC4 lol.
dry ember
Yeah 20+ (or maybe 25+) is high
cunning urchin
But that's just how I feel about it. There's no logic to it.
I think there's a very big difference between 32 and 40+, too.
And a very big difference between 40 and 45+.
turbid needle
def
carmine rivet
I think generalizing 20-25+ heat as "high heat" makes sense because that's the cut-off for Bounties
dry ember
The biggest thing is that you need to start taking pacts that have anti synergy with TD on 40+
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's just semantics anyway because "high" is relative. The higher you clear, the lower the heat below that will appear to you. That's just natural.
inner heath
wait when do bounties cut off? Is it different per weapon?
drowsy plover
Not entirely build related, but does anyone know if you can opt to use 1 call bar instead of all 4 when you hit max?
dry ember
All weapons are the same
inner heath
I actually haven't started hellmode yet
cunning urchin
@drowsy plover you can't. That's why I make sure to never hit 5 bars on a lot of calls because I want the i-frames on activation.
inner heath
I was going to wait for 1.0 release, because I'll want to do a new file then anyway
dry ember
It's not that different from normal
inner heath
As I'll need to replay as I'm an achievement person
inner heath
Didn't realize it was different there
dry ember
Mainly because you have 5 heat on for your very first run
drowsy plover
@cunning urchin I was hoping it'd become an option, I use them for i-frames too (usually poseidon)
inner heath
Ahhhhhh, that makes sense. I would've figured that even at 5 heat it'd give you bounty from heat 1, kinda like how overflow heat does in regular mode
dry ember
Yeah, basically heat 5 is 0 on Hell Mode
rough bluff
so how does Companion Antos work exactly?
dry ember
That's why the heat bounty is bumped to 25