heat 7 iirc
#h1-builds-and-combat
clear dome
+15% damage is not as bad as -70% max hp tho
heady zephyr
again, it's strong, just takes a lot of getting used to
small stirrup
Asphodel must have been hell
spring turret
beowulf is kinda a mixed bag though some casts are better than others
heady zephyr
oh i threw the run afterwards haha
small stirrup
+15% damage is not as bad as -70% max hp tho
@clear dome I use Guan Yu for that boi
heady zephyr
gonna finish leveling rama and try that first
spring turret
the weapon majorly relies on the dragon rush while the attack and special are quite weak
heady zephyr
the shield's attack is always bad tbf
clear dome
rama is good and bad
spring turret
so its a gamble sort of weapon you either destroy or be destroyed with bad rng
small stirrup
Rama was just bad for me in the beta
spring turret
rama is alot better now
small stirrup
I put on explosive shot and immediately regretted it
spring turret
specially the attack feels more cleaner
heady zephyr
nahhhh, anything that makes the charge slower is an awful idea on rama
spring turret
yeah going for explosive with a heavy weapon is asking for trouble
clear dome
i saw explosive shot and like "NOPe, NO WAy Im gonna suffer that"
small stirrup
They should have flurry shot on Rama T^T
heady zephyr
kinda like the energy wave on stygius? maybe
small stirrup
Hold on
I have to ask
Does Guan Yu spin still deflect with Athena?
Pls say yes
small stirrup
YES
spring turret
tried it myself
small stirrup
MY BOI IS BACK
heady zephyr
my favourite is athena on malphon
spring turret
works wonders with the quick spin and new serpent hammer
small stirrup
What's the new hammer?
small stirrup
Oh
heady zephyr
oh, nice
small stirrup
Interesting
clear dome
shpeeeeeeeeeeeeen
small stirrup
Is better than massive spin tho?
heady zephyr
guan yu exclusive i assume?
clear dome
Winged Serpent (Spear - Guan Yu Aspect): new! Your Serpent Slash ability travels longer
spring turret
with quick speen you can barely have 3 max spins out at the same time
small stirrup
Massive gives that smacks lips damage tho
spring turret
if u get it caught between two corners it keeps bouncing around and can rack up fast
massives more immediately worth it but i feel like you could get alot of value from deadly reversal with winged serpent
and athena attack
spring turret
personally loved flooding the screen with deflecting spins
small stirrup
Guan yu is best spear change my mind
heady zephyr
speaking of athena, she is so damn good on backstab builds with nemesis or malphon
small stirrup
The spin is just too good
heady zephyr
guan yu is the only good spear, change my mind
spring turret
no mind changing needed
heady zephyr
i like achilles in theory, but the numbers don't add up compared to guan yu
and hades and zag just aren't good
clear dome
guan yu dont have the rapid poke tho
spring turret
its a cast weapon and those tend to become rng gambles
small stirrup
Why are you poking with Guan Yu is the better question tho
spring turret
yeah dash attack instead
main osprey
Last time I poked with GY I died
heady zephyr
or even the special
spring turret
if u need to
small stirrup
JUST SPIN INSTEAD
spring turret
becomes hard to spin when u have forced overtime on
clear dome
i like the triple poke
heady zephyr
the heavy weapons take years against shielded enemies like theseus or greatshields though
clear dome
i always have FO on
main osprey
The spin hits shields if it travels behind them
small stirrup
Yeah
spring turret
i mean u can make mini spins but i dont like it because it peters out quickly
heady zephyr
i wonder if weapon-specific god boons might be an interesting idea
like an ares boon that made guan yu's spin a rift that inherited all your rift mods as well
spring turret
that kinda exists with beowulf casts but i wouldnt be opposed to that sort of idea
probably exclusive to fourth aspects
main osprey
Holy shades that'd be broken beyond belief, at least that specific example
heady zephyr
yeah haha imagine the tracking rift on guan yu
spring turret
upgrade
not to mention u still have blade rifts on top of that
you know what would absolutely change the guan yu spear if you could charge the spin while still being able to move around
that as a hammer upgrade would be huge
clear dome
it will looks stoopid tho
small stirrup
Charging and moving with any spear is broken
Would ruin the pace it has
I mean it'd be AMAZING
But I'd become addicted to it
clear dome
not to mention sliding with one leg up
spring turret
yeah it would be broken but its a hammer upgrade
wat if it was just moving not dashing
so you could slightly move out of the way while charging it
but thinking about it would make flaring spin obsolete
so probably never happening because it breaks everything
spring turret
imagine if there was like a broken mode in hades where they let you play with all the nerfed things (unnerfed) while the hell mode exists for the people who want a balanced challenge
cuz god mode is just a boring crutch for people learning
main osprey
Never played God mode so wouldn't know
main osprey
I think you're asking for something closer to sandbox?
spring turret
more that they leave in broken things in there
so people wont complain if their favourite weapons nerfed
they get to enjoy gamebreaking things to their delight
main osprey
That can get boring quickly though—you can only have so many runs of constant OP before fights get trivial
spring turret
well u have the choice to change
whenever
it really wont be a priority since it will require alot of work
but nice to think about i guess
small stirrup
as in make it the fun mode
Breaking the game is fun?
I mean I see that, but its like a short time fun and then it just gets old. But maybe thats just me
spring turret
idk i always found the builds and comboes in hades the most fun
small stirrup
Same and the rng of making whatever you have work was also fun
But now that you mention it
A custom build builder is pretty dope
I can see how that can be really fun
spring turret
just dont make it give achievements or bounties if those ever get added
spring turret
i feel like there needs to remain some substance to it so not everything can be chosen from the get go but say chances for legendary and duo boons are much higher
small stirrup
I'm a huge completionist buff
spring turret
yeah theres something satisfying about completing roguelites
and challenging games
small stirrup
And 100% sgg is super fun
flashbacks to strangers dream full pantheon
Yeah...
Fun
heady zephyr
Lots of roguelikes have mutator modes that let you customise builds
I wouldn't mind something like that at all if it disabled pact bounties
spring turret
i was thinking a sort of sandbox where you dont get everything from the start (so theres atleast a sliver of rng involved in this roguelite game) but can choose multipliers for positive rng like duo/legendary boons, chance of getting boon rooms instead of resource rooms, special rerolls(imagine a special sort of fated upgrade with both fated authority and persuasion that can also reroll hammer upgrades too), speed of attacks/special/cast (so you can play heavy weapons as if they were light), influence growth of base stats like speed, damage, evasion, dmg reduction ( if you wanted to see really huge numbers). And all the limits on things such as tick rate of thunder flourish would be removed. You would still be able to use pacts if u wanted to try a strong build out on a toughened versions of enemies (maybe even give the option to increase pacts beyond their normal amount like giving enemies 4x the health with Calisthenics program so you could try out builds for longer if wanted). But it wont be added to your completions (wont count as a new record), wont count for fates list quests and wont get any bounties and achievements that may be added later. This will require a great load of time and work (almost creating an entire new game ) so this is probably lowest priority if this is ever thought of in anyway.
barren sparrow
Do you guys push past Heat 20? Since there is no more bounty past 20.
mossy zodiac
Guys, any help would be appreciated. What do? https://i.imgur.com/tiJ5dy8.jpg
spring turret
what weapon are u using
mossy zodiac
Coronacht
mossy zodiac
no
carmine rivet
Dash, Special, repeat
spring turret
probably would got with spamming dash attack
spring turret
u have zeus call
so try getting a bit agressive after that fills
to max
u dont have tight deadline so u can wait for that to pop off
then combine with a barrage of dash strikes
mossy zodiac
Right, i've got a call boon. Well, that's actually Athene, but no matter. TY!
mossy zodiac
See you in about an hour.
spring turret
i guess i mixed up their colours haha
carmine rivet
Invincibility from Athena will definitely help you here
mossy zodiac
Never even tried to run tight deadline, can't image the rage of losing a run in Elysium due to time constrains... I'd be mighty pissed.
spring turret
the pain is getting to the boss with half a second remaining and a trainwreck build
mossy zodiac
The bastards are dead, the justice is upheld.
spring turret
benefits package at its worse
when a numbskull becomes as intimidating as a miniboss simply because it wont ever die
spring turret
exalted elysium archers with that and no deflect boon
machine gun
and there will be like 7 of them firing at you like a swat team
mossy zodiac
monkaS
spring turret
worse that i always run forced overtime
dire bough
im thinking of doing a chiron bow run with a demeter special (to get that decay damage and that 10 stack burst), what other gods would synergise well with it
mossy zodiac
Holy hell, did they buff archers? They never did a volley before.
spring turret
think its just exalted those guys are always machine guns
dire bough
the exalted do more damage in this patch
mossy zodiac
Exalted means gray variant?
spring turret
i thought it meant the armored ones
guess i should call them armored archers
instead
spring turret
so its a useless naming convention then
mossy zodiac
Lol, nvm
spring turret
but yeah armored archers shoot like 3 times after seeking
when there are multiple combined with benefits package (bruiser and speed) and forced over time it becomes a hell field
carmine rivet
Armored enemies are typically called Elites.
The ghostly Grecian Warriors of Elysium are collectively the Exalted: Brightsword, Greatshields, Longspears, Strongbows
spring turret
nice then i can call them elites thanks for the info
carmine rivet
The mini-boss variants of enemies with Armor are referred to as Dire, such as the Power Couple in Asphodel consisting of a Dire Skull-Crusher and the Megagorgon.
spring turret
i'll have to add that to my catalogue of hades nomenclature thanks again
carmine rivet
modest urchin
Which companion do people use now? I’m usually just looking to use them for three things at the moment. Burst down the shields/armour of the crystal boss in Tartarus, the butterfly boss in Elysium and chip some health away from the Elysium boss fight. Using Meg right now and she’s good at those except it is kind of rng whether she hits both of the bosses in Elysium or not. I try to use some in Styx but my timing sucks so I don’t get it usually.
untold quiver
@dire bough - Zeus has a duo that causes lighting to continuously strike people with cold and jolted + decay is a nice dot combo
sacred idol
Dang. So this aspect basically brings back Load()
What hammers are good, other than meming about with Hazard Bomb on hellfire?
What does Targeting System do to apply the slow on hellfire bombs?
untold quiver
@modest urchin I use bouldy for the emergency heal + nice boss wallop during boss animation stops
cunning urchin
Bouldy can burst through miniboss armor just fine.
mossy zodiac
So, they actually fixed Coronacht chain-shot bouncing off walls? I thought it was the intended behaviour 
mossy zodiac
Me too 😦
cunning urchin
2500 damage from Megaera is about ~1500 more than you need to burst through armor.
sacred idol
Okay, so, I got my third Daedalus start in a row
Piercing Fire, Targeting System, or Eternal Chamber?
Does the Hellfire have a reasonable range for the slow of Targeting?
untold quiver
I think Rama bow might be the first legendary I get really hype on..... which is cool since Beowulf is kinda taking Hera Bow's place.....though I need to max it out first
novel python
Can anyone throw a zag fist build at me
novel python
zag
cunning urchin
Calling Meg vs the Champions is actually not RNG, really. @raw violet tested a lot of options to hit them both at the same time. I think it was dash up twice immediately, then summon, and she will hit them both 100% of the time.
sacred idol
ah, wait
brain derp
Zag fist? Anything that benefits from going fast
so uh
old school zeus attack, athena dash, whatever you like special?
artemis? ares? whatev
carmine rivet
Anyone: Hey can I get some help on fists?
Nyaanyaa is typing
untold quiver
@kree plume -demeter attack , decay, artimis dash if you get the dash attack combo otherwise Athena dash.....weak or doom on special
novel python
Special feels clunky so I might not use it at all
sacred idol
no fists, only cat paws
novel python
It ruins the flow
lament coral
@gentle salmon Demeter fist, max out, Artemis special
burnt granite
anyone here can give me a build for lucifer?
lament coral
get Athena attack or dash
sacred idol
I need hammer suggestions for Lucifer
lament coral
that's it, you're all set
sacred idol
Piercing Fire, Targeting System, Eternal Chamber.
modest urchin
Hmm, okay I’ll try bouldy out soon.
lament coral
as for upgrades, look for Long Fist and Kick
novel python
I usually don't even finish my attack chain as it stops me in place so I just dash attack a lot with them
cunning urchin
@novel python Divine Strike, go for Hunter Dash next and avoid any crit boons from Lady Artemis until you get Support Fire and Deadly Reversal (because crit will pollute her pool and make it harder to get those two). Brilliant Riposte if Lady Athena offers it.
lament coral
also, is it me or does Beowulf suck ass?
burnt granite
eternal chamber?
modest urchin
Suck ass
lament coral
sure, it's a lot of damage, but you can't block AND you take extra damage
sacred idol
Eternal Chamber sounds meh, because it removes the ramping, and the ramping is exactly what sounds broken about it.
carmine rivet
@lament coral several people have submitted ill-feelings about the new Beowulf Shield, so you definitely aren't alone
lament coral
Eternal Chamber is perfect if you're using Zeus attack
burnt granite
but what is eternal chamber? xD
sacred idol
well I took the chaos egg to finish its last chamber to level, so I've got no idea what I'm getting
lament coral
Beowulf feels like a weird mish mash or Arthur and Hera
sacred idol
infinite ammo on lucifer beam, no ramping damage
lament coral
slow, big damage, cast infused
sacred idol
ramping damage is, I hear, busted on a +damage primary
burnt granite
ok and what gods, zeus isnt it?
sacred idol
Eternal Chamber for Zeus sure, because Zeus does not scale over time
So just having infinite ammo is fine
cunning urchin
@novel python that's what I use for all my high heat runs because it's very strong and consistent. Breaching Cross has top priority for hammers.
sacred idol
Zeus on the beam sounds fun, you just ignore your base damage and flood lightning constantly
I would go for a Cold Fusion build that way.
burnt granite
the problem is the damage is feeling litelbit low
cunning urchin
But up to 20 and probably somewhat above that, you can just get whatever you like and experiment.
modest urchin
But yeah I am really surprised the current Beowulf is what we ended up with all the beta changes it has received
burnt granite
i will test it anyway and let u know
untold quiver
How does support fire interact with the beam? Arrow every tick yeah?
sacred idol
Well yeah, the base damage is low, but that's only for Zeus because Zeus completely ignores your base damage and has its own independent damage @burnt granite
so it makes sense
cunning urchin
@novel python that's enough to carry you through 20 heat already. Good luck! 
sacred idol
But in this case... Piercing Fire or Targeting System?
cunning urchin
For call I'd recommend Poseidon's Aid or Dionysus' Aid.
sacred idol
More importantly, does Targeting System turn the Hellfire mines into an AOE slow, or does it only slow in a very tiny radius?
novel python
Hey I got sturdy!
sacred idol
screw it. I'll test it and reset if it's bad
novel python
First hammer
burnt granite
its any way to get daedelus hammer at start?
untold quiver
It seems like all the shields really need to be maxed out to feel them well...as opposed to some of the other weapons that don't have the same kind of ramp
modest urchin
Which heats do people usually take for the first 20 or so?
sacred idol
Oh wow
cunning urchin
@burnt granite can't force it, it's just RNG.
sacred idol
That's actually pretty neat, the whole aoe seems to slow
spring turret
can u exploit the rng though by avoiding hammers like the plague in your previous run?
modest urchin
I have a decent idea up until 13 or 14 heat but afterwards I don’t know how to minimize screwing my self too hard
spring turret
or does the previous run have no effect
untold quiver
Kale, it's really gonna depend on the weapon and the build.....imo. like I take forced overtime with the fists because I'm usually also takin the plume so I'm going fast anyway....but with Hera Bow or Hunter blades Achilles spear I stay awayrom it in favor of more enemies because they are slower pkaystyles
sacred idol
@spring turret I've had three of the hammer starts in a row. RNG though.
cunning urchin
@novel python in Asphodel pick the Arrowhead to force Lady Athena, in Elysium either Chthonic Coin Purse or Acorn, and in the Temple of Styx Acorn.
modest urchin
Yeah I found I have issue with forced overtime in Elysium when I increase monster density 😐
sacred idol
imagine having the skill to use plume lmao
spring turret
so its completely rng then bummer
novel python
Hmmm demeter athena trial or shop 🤔
raw violet
Magic Meg spot for Theseus and Asterius is consistently one dash distance straight up from start of fight: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508224167498219521/719789998836285470/Hades_00032.png
novel python
only got the strike and frozen touch
sacred idol
I feel like the Spearpoint is still better than Acorn unless you're more consistent/skilled at avoiding damage
modest urchin
Hot damn thanks
raw violet
Regardless of EM
cunning urchin
@novel python trial.
sacred idol
I'd always go for a trial, period
spring turret
depends if its elysium and ur really behind with tight deadline
sacred idol
unless you're completely stacked with boons and have like one hammer in elysium
spring turret
otherwise trial always
cunning urchin
You can spend that later.
sacred idol
or that, Tight Deadline
In all seriousness: I feel like I die more every time with the Acorn
cunning urchin
I avoid trials only on high heat because you can easily die from that.
spring turret
Its usually great since i go artemis alot and artemis is a free trial to fight against essentially
sacred idol
Because it runs out early, rather than eating a bit of damage throughout the course of the boss fight
novel python
Aand got exposed
cunning urchin
Or if I don't care for those gods in my build.
novel python
One more debuff pls and it'll be a breeze
sacred idol
Artemis is a free trial? I got destroyed in my first post-patch run by an Artemis trial on fists
modest urchin
I feel like they buffed Artemis trial to make it harder
spring turret
i guess its somewhat subjective
sacred idol
They did, afaik, specifically mentioned in patchnotes.
they buffed frequency of the magic, so now it's a constant storm of green rings of death
also, the green rings have really weird delayed detonation so dodging their damage instance is a pain
spring turret
but i find it way easier than aphrodite, athena, poseidon etc. Zeus, dio and demeter are also on the easier side for me personally.
modest urchin
I just know if I have bow I don’t make Artemis angry
sacred idol
hahah
novel python
I guess ravenous will is a good combo with stygian from mirror?
novel python
20% bonus damage with no casts and I only have 1 ( which sadly regens every 3 sec but hey I can spam cast )
spring turret
yeah it really depends on the weapon
untold quiver
It's great with the load up weapons... .or Dio/Ares cast spam
spring turret
does it get better with infernal or remains at 20% after each cast
sacred idol
Demeter good for Lucifer?
spring turret
i think so i tried to get artic blast but never showed up for me
even without it
really strong
spring turret
i think thats why it got all the nerfs
because abuse incoming
glacial glare, lucifer and frozen vortex
cunning urchin
Ravenous Will is good with 1 cast and no regen lol.
spring turret
does ravenous will apply for each cast lost or only once?
sacred idol
also, can I just say, this feels like it absolutely trivializes blue shields
spring turret
never tested it
cunning urchin
It applies when you have 0 ammo.
random hull
Ravenous Will works more consistently with Infernal Soul. Stygian Soul will cancel the effect as soon as the stone regenerates.
spring turret
true
sacred idol
Ugh. Normal trash tier boons. May I get Rare Crop today.
spring turret
i used to think it got better for each cast u lost but that would be absurd
random hull
Importantly, a fired cast will benefit from Ravenous Will - which is convenient for Hera Bow.
spring turret
common rare crop incoming
modest urchin
Ravenous will and lightning rod synergy
spring turret
sounds nice, i always wanted to use lightning rod without instinctually picking it up
sacred idol
The laser is just absolutely nasty, but autoaim feels like it really gimps Lucifer's versatility
so it feels worse on controller
random hull
Ravenous will is added damage to everything, and easy to trigger. It is actually my most used boon on successful runs.
crystal wing
I'm having trouble getting the fully loaded boon. The chart is hard for me to follow. So the only way to get it is:
pressure point -> support fire -> dual shot (this is one of places i'm having confusion following the chat. can i get dual shot from support fire?)
true shot - > exit wounds
both exit wounds and dual shot into fully loaded?
spring turret
piercing fire fixes the janky aiming somewhat since u can still hit through enemies that you wanted to hit
sacred idol
Well yeah. Piercing Fire feels amazing on it.
sacred idol
Dual Shot is actually changed into a duo
spring turret
yeah miracle shot with poseidon
sacred idol
I'm very disappointed that Freezing Vortex is the Demeter/Ares duo boon
modest urchin
Fully loaded feels really rng to get I have been trying for quite a few runs now but i still haven’t gotten it lol
sacred idol
Why isn't it called Cold War?
spring turret
really have to get the chart updated because its so different now
cunning urchin
Mirage Shot.
sacred idol
:c
untold quiver
The other thing is if you got ravenous....you also are probably applying chill so you can get decay as well......Demeter is one of the most versital kits
crystal wing
I am super confused now
hunters mark does not have any arrows leading to support fire
untold quiver
What does it do?
spring turret
u need a crit boon and support fire iirc
random hull
The charts
Why isn't it called Cold War?
@sacred idol You're right! Feels like a missed opportunity.
spring turret
then get hunters mark from the crit boon
cunning urchin
I don't think the boon charts are up-to-date yet.
untold vortex
yeah, the boon charts are out of date
spring turret
that one really needs to be updated since everyones gonna be wondering about that legendary the most
modest urchin
Most legendary boon aren’t as strict as fully loaded right?
spring turret
and its changed alot
yeah not even close
i'd say divine protection is the closest though
crystal wing
okay, thanks, even still I have trouble reading them because the arrows are all over the places and most are backwards
cunning urchin
Fully Loaded should be a lot easier to get now.
crystal wing
at least for artemis
sacred idol
Divine Protection has always felt a bit too hard to get.
untold vortex
hypoethically, you still need 2 T2 boons
spring turret
ones that u can actually get in any cast builds now
thankfully
cough cough blade rift, crystal lasers and trippy shot
untold quiver
I've slowly shifted my Posidon Blade game from hunting blades to straight Artemis Exit Wounds and dash strikes
spring turret
yeah nws
crystal wing
sacred idol
lmao already got freezing vortex
untold quiver
I haven't had a chance to test it yet but I feel like Dio and Beowulf are going to go nicely
sacred idol
rarities are ass, but this build seems like it's off to a fairly early start
spring turret
hope u can atleast find arctic blast i've tried and the game refuses to give it to me
sacred idol
I just need arctic blast to really make it go
crystal wing
one last thing. Is it just me or are boons harder to come by now
spring turret
not even common
duo boons/legendary have been nerfed slightly in terms of drop rate
burnt granite
question, i think the lucifer can work better whit concentrated beam, than whit the eternal chamber, im rigth now whit artemisa atack crit, what u think about??
spring turret
hmm not sure about that
concentrated
eternal chambers not that good unless u have zeus and support fire
its basically og infinity chamber on rail
sacred idol
@burnt granite if you're on a damage scaling beam then yes
crystal wing
okay then. Cause I seem to be getting on nectars, keys, gems, darkness a lot
sacred idol
eternal is a zeus thing
burnt granite
and, what about the especial? any build for it?
spring turret
yeah its probably the wet dream come true for @turbid needle spiritual successor of infinity chamber
triple bomb works really well with it
the special can proc it self if u layer them together
sacred idol
Piercing Fire just feels ridiculously good on it though
spring turret
atleast i think it should
indeed
way better than on og rail
piercing fire is a godsend
modest urchin
I think I heard someone talk about using special to set up doom and try to get the ares and Athena duo
sacred idol
I hear Hazard Bomb's also nasty, like, super good
heady zephyr
bouncing shot seems to make rama worse
the wave no longer overpenetrates but instead bounces like a regular arrow
burnt granite
kk, nop, not good at all. i took the ramp amage one..... whit artemisa, next room? tanatos put me on a really small area and the new dracoons, like 10 start atacking me, and i jsut cant dodge enogh
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/525963611655503882/725344361193275432/unknown.png I like where this is going
brave dune
I don't understand Beowulf's shield
heady zephyr
malphon with attack speed is 💯
spring turret
zagreus aspect malphon no less
novel python
Attack speed and 5 dashes
brave dune
It's slow, doesn't block, and you take extra damage while using it
spring turret
it doesnt block?
heady zephyr
actually i think malphon might be my favourite weapon to use plume with
brave dune
Is there something about it I don't udnerstand?
heady zephyr
it blocks behind you
spring turret
really i thought it was normal
heady zephyr
it blocks behind while charging the bull rush, the bull rush blocks like normal
modest urchin
Wow
crystal wing
alright just got hunter's mark
so now there is a possibly of getting support fire?
brave dune
The bull rush is normal, so why get rid of the regular block?
heady zephyr
that in itself would be ok imo, but that and the 15% damage taken is a bit much
brave dune
And the blocking behind thing doesn't seem.. reliable..? It blocks like to your right
not directly behind
spring turret
I feel like i need to try it again because i dont remember any of this in beta
marsh harbor
what part of the beowulf makes it at all strong? is the cast particularly powerful?
brave dune
Yes the cast deals a lot of damage, especially if you have more casts for it..
heady zephyr
triple stacking an artemis cast into a bull rush is pretty stupid, yes
spring turret
with hunters flare you can becoming a walking nuke
brave dune
but in order to do that, you need to bull rush, and you can't block while charging the rush
spring turret
add mirage shot on top
brave dune
and the block is what the shield is for :c
untold quiver
The cast also increases size making things like Dio and Ares screen fillers
spring turret
are you sure you cant block
sacred idol
Amir mentioned Beowulf's block is a little busted and will be adjusted in a patch.
Currently it blocks mostly behind you
heady zephyr
oh, it's not meant to do that? good to know
heady zephyr
wait, is it meant to block in front of you? that's weird, when you're charging the bull rush zag visibly holds the shield slung over his shoulder
spring turret
it always did in front may be a bug
yeah ik its a bit jarring
but still should block in front
brave dune
Well he holds it like he's throwing a puttshot or a discus
untold quiver
But isn't the point of the legendary aspects that the are a big difference in playstyle? So a bit blocking shield kinda makes sense
brave dune
that.. coiled like a spring pose
heady zephyr
then they should change the animation i guess
spring turret
yeah
heady zephyr
because it's misleading
spring turret
because it functionally works the same
i remember thinking the block looked off
but ingame it worked the same
brave dune
The legendary aspects so far haven't taken away the base weapon's abilities
besides Guan Yu
heady zephyr
i mean, lucifer and excal do that as well
spring turret
yeah i thought it was strange for it to taking away blocking
brave dune
but Guan Yu is op, so I don't understand what's worth in the Beowulf for the tradeoff for less blocking and more damage taken
heady zephyr
all the final aspects take things away
spring turret
but excalibur removes that awful thrust so good riddance
brave dune
They don't? Excal is much slower and no thrust but it deals so much damage, and the aura is a huge new addition
Lucy doesn't really take anything away, except make the bombs slower.. but the bombs do continuous aoe and blow up too..
spring turret
i dont think the blocking was taken away though
if it was that serious it would be well-known already
heady zephyr
lucy does also take away the shoot and dash playstyle of other rail aspects
spring turret
well you firing that laser always so no need to shoot 2 more arrows
brave dune
It does? I had the ramp up damage thing and I kept dashing mid-fire and just resumed firing after the dash
I assume that's a shoot and dash playstyle
I don't think it even stops the ramped up damage if you dash
heady zephyr
oh, it doesn't?
spring turret
it just resumes fire
brave dune
yeah
modest urchin
I do feel like Beowulf is probably not as bad as I think it is and I need to rely on the dash attack as my primary damage and the cast burst as a more opportunistic damage burst.
spring turret
dashing helps positioning alot though
heady zephyr
ah ok
spring turret
it can be a bit annoying with auto aim however
you may lose targets alot if there are many enemies
untold quiver
I mean, if the block thing isn't intended that's cool, I'm not saying I think it should not block, but I would expect it to be the least defensive shield option, he was pretty much all aggro
heady zephyr
the auto aim doesn't prioritise the hellfire as targets
spring turret
thats a rail problem though
novel python
@cunning urchin you said breaching cross? 👀
heady zephyr
i think it would be fine to keep the weird block angle and lose the extra damage taken imo
brave dune
Oh my god it does block!
spring turret
yeah
brave dune
but the block angle is weird..
spring turret
i thought so
heady zephyr
but if it's not intended at all then whatever
lament coral
@modest urchin if that was the case, Chaos would simply be better
modest urchin
I also think Beowulf sometimes blocks but it doesn’t show the blocked text nor does it play the sound effect. I’ve noticed being pushed back and taking no damage but have no other feedback what so ever.
brave dune
Yeah that's what I thought hte new 'block' was in Beowulf
spring turret
weird lot of problems that i've never experienced in beta
heady zephyr
i think the blocked text is gone in general? i see deflections but no blocks now i think
untold quiver
I think the cast thing, like the ticks on the Zeus shield will really shine at max but seems lackluster at base
modest urchin
Yeah I think Chaos shield is just OP and it’s what I use as well haha.
heady zephyr
similarly, it doesn't show the text when you proc ruthless reflex now i think
spring turret
well thats a list of things that should be 
ed
if they are legitimate, make sure first though
brave dune
I wish the game tells you it blocks behind you, I was testing it by trying to place Zag's animation-shield in between me and the hit
heady zephyr
is it a bug? i assumed it was a way to reduce visual clutter
brave dune
and that was't reliable
heady zephyr
which, to be fair, is an issue in this game
spring turret
no i mean
blocking text not showing up
that seems like a bug
because it definately happens on greatshields
and theseus
brave dune
I don't think it's a bug of the block text not showing up, more that Zag's hitbox gets skewed at a certain angle?
spring turret
are you sure its not just visual
brave dune
Because only certain types of attacks or creatures get deflected without being blocked
heady zephyr
yeah i think they might have kept it for the enemies just to communicate to the player that they need to change their angle
untold quiver
I loaded some blade rifts into Beowulf at base and they were friggin big I can't imagine how much screen they'll take up at max....what's the max bonus on the cast damage/Aoe?
brave dune
Yeah it's not just visual, it's like they missed more than you blocking the hit
gentle salmon
@lament coral wot, y ping?
spring turret
hmm probably report it because didnt seem to work that way in beta
brave dune
The floating skull heads seem to glide off you like they missed you, but witch attacks like those balls do damage straight up, no.. 'deflection' and no block
Maybe its not broken, but this seems to be one of the most significant things in an aspect that isn't explained to you
Anyway I just died on the first room of Tartarus testing this out xD
modest urchin
I really like the blocked text and the sound cue that goes with it.
carmine rivet
Sorry @gentle salmon, I think Zeppman got confused and pinged you instead of Kree. Might've gotten your tag confused with what Peach calls me.
gentle salmon
Ah. That's alright, haha.
brave dune
okay now I'm confused. The wretches straight up can't hit me from the back, but witch balls get blocked. The blocked text shows up, the screen whitens up a little, all that fanfare.
Yeah this is probs a bug, but i guess the dev team already knows and are fixing it
lament coral
@gentle salmon I didn't ping you?
heady zephyr
hm, that definitely sounds like a bug then
maybe, yeah, the hit detection for melee while blocking is just messed up
carmine rivet
Zepp, you did earlier when Kree was asking about a Twin Fists build.
spring turret
idk how they would screw it up like that so recently, it was perfectly fine when i tried it out
like a week ago
brave dune
It's not messed up with other shields though, I'm just confused why they felt they had to change it for Beowulf without explaining it to the player
modest urchin
Probably just a side effect because Beowulf uses different codes
So easier to get new bugs
spring turret
maybe its a bug related with the new dragon rush since theres two different rushes based on if u load cast or not
lament coral
oh yeah 
spring turret
I can confirm
it definately doesnt block in front
very weird
maybe they tried to change it to fit the animation
and like you said
brave dune
Wait you were saying it blocked in the front in Beta?
It deeefintiely isn't doing that anymore
spring turret
it goes through you if u try to block at the side
yep it blocked in the front in beta
this is broken as heck
how did u get it to block
brave dune
180 degrees from the front lmao
and only on witch balls
physical attacks don't seem to trigger the block, but they just bounce off you anyway
brave dune
whew that's a breath of fresh air
hushed ledge
How's everyone building Rama?
modest urchin
Zeus on special and only spam my special
hushed ledge
Mood
spring turret
thought its not as broken as before still solid
hushed ledge
That build is just disgusting
spring turret
bit of controversy behind the special because of that one build
spring turret
sgg nerfed to special a bit accordingly
then back to how it is now
thunder flourish with hermes made it into a rail with higher dmg
flourish hit alot more times with that special
modest urchin
The +4 arrow on special hammer is crazy lol
spring turret
i kind of get why though it suffered a similar problem with guan yu where the special became so centralised that it overshadowed the attack
hushed ledge
Tbf GY attack is just awful though
spring turret
yeah but their intentions to try out the cool new mechanic it brings
turbid needle
zeus be like the answer to everything
hushed ledge
You mean nothing right?
spring turret
the spin with heal
hushed ledge
This is like the only Zeus build I like ngl
modest urchin
I don’t think people enjoy being made less mobile 😦
turbid needle
I mean shield, rail and fists are amazing with zeus too
spring turret
its great for any low instance special/attack
turbid needle
anything that is multihit really
spring turret
which happens to be like half the weapons
hybrid galleon
I have
modest urchin
Zeus also just have amazing potential to ramp damage by getting more Zeus boons
hybrid galleon
0 ideas how to use rama
turbid needle
I just slap something on special and maybe have some nice status on attack
heady zephyr
Athena on malphon is disgusting
hybrid galleon
Rama is incredibly hard to power shot rapidly
modest urchin
How do you guys deal with Styx with Rama btw if you aren’t using a special cheese build
hybrid galleon
same i wanna know
spring turret
dont underestimate the power of dash strike on the bow
it makes your attack charge alot faster
so much more noticeable with rama
heady zephyr
Yeah
With Rama I also find it useful to rely on the sound cue for the charge up
Compared to other bows
spring turret
the particle is also very nice as an indicator
burnt granite
kk, lucifer,eternal chamebr, ares, is not working
modest urchin
I need to watch a god player style on the game using Rama and Beowulf without doing a cheese build lol
spring turret
well thats some real niche build there dire misfortune with the rail
heady zephyr
ares on lucifer primary? or the hellfire?
spring turret
beowulf is a cast weapon meaning its a hit or miss run regardless of skill i'd say because your attack and special is neutered
heady zephyr
doom works ok on the hellfire i find but imo it's better to use them for raw damage without the delay
turbid needle
high heat players r just gonna do strong builds tho
spring turret
you either get 5 cast dmg chaos boons, mirage shot, hunters flare, fully loaded and 4 hit everything
heady zephyr
my best run with lucy was dio/aphro
spring turret
or die to a horde of numbskulls
modest urchin
Hmm, I just want to watch like a 10 heat run with them 😦
heady zephyr
lol
spring turret
because you have been crapped on by rngesus
turbid needle
I mean you can just experiment with things yourself
mossy zodiac
Damn, that new boss fight though. Barely got through!
hybrid galleon
Rama why
heady zephyr
i think a keepsake that specifically benefited caster builds would be nice for taking some of the rng out
turbid needle
but it's natural that people find a strong build they like and just stick to it
heady zephyr
really? rama seems like a horde clear weapon more than anything to me
spring turret
i wish they werent so adamant on nerfing casting builds because it only makes the gamble less worth it
heady zephyr
the special bounces and the primary has an AoE
spring turret
its broken yes but its alot of luck
turbid needle
yeah I liked rama for crowds :0
spring turret
tip use the special
dash around and spam it like a madman
then hit one enemy with the attack from far away
modest urchin
By the way, the Poseidon and Zeus duo boon, how come sometimes the lightning doesn’t proc. Is it vs enemies I can’t knock back?
spring turret
and they all get hit
regal nimbus
For everyone thats going crazy about rama zeus special, i ran some numbers !
I ran the numbers with a mod that spawns boons as you please, the higher damage variant of this is Poseidon special with Zeus Duo and Poseidon Legendary , purely because oyu get more raw special damage + scaling with the posieidon special, and you double bolt as well (The poseidon legendary is basically the zeus one , literally , and zeus legendary doesnt work for this) + the fact that it shoves and procs rupture, only a bit harder to get
burnt granite
on the normal atack the ares, its work specially if u have the boom that let u stack it for more damage, but, that jsut work on low heat and jsut if u can dodge so good...on my mopinion not worth, so for now Zeus and eternal chamber wins this, is not good for a weapon jsut can work whit 1 boom on my opinion
spring turret
have you tried a mindless dmg build with the lucifer rail without eternal chamber
its surprisingly effective
heady zephyr
what, lucifer? ares is a terrible choice for the primary on that. zeus, dio, even demi are good though
spring turret
just slap aphro, demeter, athena even if you want deadly reversal and watch the magic happen
lament coral
how is Ares different from Dio on Lucy?
heady zephyr
and aphro is probably the best secondary for it imo
heady zephyr
because poison stacks and doom doesn't, and poison is also easier to build for status damage
lament coral
get Dire Misfortune and Ares is straight up better
hybrid galleon
@heady zephyr i clear hordes faster with the other bows unfortunately
lament coral
Doom does more damage when it ticks
spring turret
its a waste of lucifer aspects power though
heady zephyr
sure, but if you're gonna put doom on lucifer, might as well put it on the special
you can spread it around further that way and you're not wasting damage ticks reapplying a non-stacking status
hybrid galleon
plus the incapable of rapid powershot with rama is making me pissed off because I can literally still do rapid powershot even after 2 months break on any other bows
lament coral
and you get no benefit whatsoever from continuous poison stacking once the stacks are maxed out, unlike with Doom and Dire Misfortune
burnt granite
on the especial? o nmy opinion the especial is alitelbit useless
spring turret
its just due to how hard it is to hit them with auto aim
its supposed to be instantly detonated by your attack
lament coral
are you playing with a gamepad?
burnt granite
yes
lament coral
I see
spring turret
i play keyboard and mouse and still use auto aim because other than that i find it alot more reliable than my inputs
its better for special builds
burnt granite
hm i see
spring turret
i prefer having auto aim since when you dash while firing at an enemy and they jump away, it follows them
modest urchin
I have trouble knowing where enemies jump to especially the red zombies that fire a purple crescent beam
heady zephyr
Those hopping enemies are really aggravating when you're running plume or tight deadline
burnt granite
ok im playing now whit keyboard fora especial build oon lucifer, first thing, daedalus hammer and i have 3 chocies. reiple beam, toxix bomb, or eternal chamber, what i take?
i have the ring of zeus for the next boom
lament coral
do you have an attack already?
lament coral
I'd take Eternal then and aim for Zeus attack
lament coral
that's a lot of lightning! ⚡
burnt granite
what should i tkae?
lament coral
anything but Poseidon/Dio/Artemis
burnt granite
wow, u can dodge and still atacking xD
lament coral
btw, do the other aspects have unique upgrades, too?
turbid needle
yeah
burnt granite
yep
lament coral
damn, now I'll have to try all of em!
heady zephyr
I saw one for rama
turbid needle
I need to farm titan blood for beowulf again
heady zephyr
Adds a knock back wave around you when you shoot the primary
lament coral
I saw an upgrade for Guan Yu, it just increased the duration of charge attack's flight
not particularly useful
also, I'm struggling to get duos, even with the mirror talent
lament coral
sure, but then another I got 0
and I still had at least 2-3 boons from every god I picked up
clear dome
duos are like pens, you take them for granted but they always disappear when you need them most
sand cape
Honestly you usually wanna leave space for a duo boon to show up while also working on something else for your build since you can't rely on them
If you build will crumble without hunting blades for example, you gonna have a bad time
clear dome
or, dont build and pray that tyche notice you
sand cape
It is amazing how many times I was going for something and my build end completely relying on something else
graceful smelt
does guan yu spin with athena work now?
burnt granite
ihavea question about chaos
if he upgrade the damage of your normal atack, improve the dmaage of the zeus atack o nthat normal atack too?
?
clear dome
no
burnt granite
sad
cunning urchin
@novel python yeah, Breaching Cross has piercing and melts through armor.
sage ferry
Currently running a full DoT/stack build and man, the damage is something else
demeter chill and support with hangover is kind of crazy
small stirrup
So guys @wispy socket wants to kick Hades' butt
Any tips bois?
I'd start with learning how time dashes
timber sparrow
Dashing at the moment he spin attacks is helpful, if you can get that down (especially if you use Ruthless reflex) it'll make the fight much easier.
small stirrup
Focus on having all your DDs and use the Acorn.
timber sparrow
And it depends on the weapon you're using but I've found builds that use Hangover from Dio are particularly helpful on him.
Having a call, preferably something like Ares/Zeus/Poseidon/Athena can help a ton too.
sage ferry
^ being able to passively do damage while you focus on kiting/other small mobs is super useful
burnt granite
they gonna improove the aspects on next patch i wish
hybrid galleon
I feel like the new artemis arrows feels so weird
I prefer the old ones so much better
burnt granite
lucifer whit zeus is strong, but not enght
wispy socket
Maybe some AoE like Dyonisos and keep hiding ?
wispy socket
Well I need to get better I often reach him with just one or none left.
timber sparrow
Yeah if you can I'd recommend just trying to pace better to save them or bank at least 200 gold in each area to buy back a kiss of styx.
And if you see the (!) thing in Elysium go there and || Patroclus || can give you all of your DD's back.
That alone has saved runs for me. xD
wispy socket
Yeah quite useful. I'm having too much trouble with the satyres
timber sparrow
They can be really tough, just got to get back to the wells quick if you're poisoned and it's a test if your build is good or not. Sadly, as a rogue-lite, if you don't have a good build of boons/hammers by the time you get up there it's going to be hell, literally.
rare veldt
One of the reasons I love shield is that you can very easily block the satyrs' poison attack. But otherwise yes, it took a while for me to start using the tree fountains in the middle of a fight to cure poison. However, I believe they also changed it in this patch that clearing an encounter automatically removes poison. (I could be wrong, this just seems to be the case in my last runs) which is helpful for the little, small rooms where you can power through and not worry too much about it.
stoic thicket
They did change it, poison stops when the encounter ends.
cunning urchin
@gray void all Dash-Strikes are also Attacks and affected by Attack boons and items. The only exception is Dash-Upper which is considered both Dash-Strike and Special—but not an Attack.
In short, if you press the Attack button to do it, it's an Attack.
Dash-Strike means any Dash-Strike including Dash-Upper.
marsh harbor
so if you get an upgrade to your dash-strike damage, does that damage also apply on the dash-strike you perform with Rolling Knuckle?
cunning urchin
Yes.
toxic acorn
Does Beowulf not have the same blocking during bull rush as the other shields?
untold quiver
I love the lore matchup of the take more damage effect of the new shield since the dragon killed Beowulf
idle isle
How do you unlock those secret weapons exactly?
opal glade
vrael you can check the pins in story & spoiler channel on how to unlock the weapons owo
idle isle
ok thanks!
opal glade
also does anyone here know what the bouldy +Ambiguity percentage does btw XD
turbid needle
Nothing, you got unlucky that run.
opal glade
oh aight
thanks schpoon
i guess it's a meta gag on how it just makes me the player more confused at getting it lmao
olive badge
god I love ||Rama Bow|| Zeus special build
not to mention I got Hermes 30% special speed too
heady zephyr
rama makes a surprisingly decent shotgun
demi/dio is really not ideal for it, but still
heady zephyr
with shared suffering a close range shot does like 600 damage with basically no draw time
pretty fun, might try rama with ruthless reflex next time
mortal aurora
hey, when can you get calls again? i started a new save and can't remember xD
olive badge
you have to pick up a boon that gives a call
opal glade
you can get call boons anytime so long as your call slot is empty
mortal aurora
well, yeah xD but like, i don't have the call tile
heady zephyr
well it still charges, but the damage bonus from being nearby outweighs the damage you lose from not getting a power shot anyway
opal glade
ohhh
is this your first time playing, cause maybe it's just that you haven't gotten the story beat yet i think
mortal aurora
oh, no xD i've beaten the final boss a few times now
opal glade
oh im sorry i really dont know then ;;
kindred bolt
i think this is hell mode, isn't it?
in hell mode, there are no calls
make a new save and turn off hell mode and the call spot will be back
opal glade
oh that's interesting, i never played hell mode so it didn't occur
untold quiver
Does Rama get the "no charge shot" hammer perk? Cause that seems like it could be pretty sweet
mortal aurora
i'm not in hell mode tho?
opal glade
iirc it took me about 30 runs or so before i got the call option, but it's been a while
i know i didn't get it right off the bat is all i can say for sure
opal glade
oh, well that might be it XD
there's a lot of content waiting for you sib
so much
glhf
untold quiver
Omg i don't think I'd want to go back to grinding all that darkness
turbid needle
You really just want Jolted and Splitting Bolt on that.
hybrid galleon
they are now both heroic
turbid needle
It's almost obnoxious how much Lucifer spikes with Splitting Bolt.
But yeah, okay, Heroic Lightning Strike and Support Fire are up there, too.
hybrid galleon
MAXIMUM PROC TRAIN
lament coral
are you guys sure that all aspects have unique hammers?
tight junco
lucifer+poseidon attack+zeus/poseidon duo worked marvelous for me
turbid needle
4th Aspects? So far, yes, that don't appear on any other Aspect of the weapon.
lament coral
oh ok, so only 4th ones have unique upgrades
untold quiver
Did they change the blade rifts to deal more damage but not last asLong?
hybrid galleon
but the ares call is so short im kinda sad
i prefer the long drawn death though
also ares call back then was psuedo athena call lul
lament coral
I don't recall, but do you need Poseidon's call to get Rip Tide?
neon bramble
To anyone having performance issues after the update...
I remembered I had flipped the Hades exe to windows 7 compatibility mode before the beta, and once I removed that it ran beautifully again.
May want to check just in case you were tinkering with your settings a while back, trying to get it to run better prior to this update.
hybrid galleon
def has its use
lament coral
the one that adds a second to your call's duration
turbid needle
Yes.
lament coral
bummer, but still, if you get it and then replace Poseidon with Ares, woah...
untold quiver
That shorter duration actually makes me not need to fish for hunting blades with Achilles spear now I'm pretty sure
wide knot
Is dash-strike on gauntlets considered special? or just dash attack.
turbid needle
How do you mean, special?
wide knot
Is it affected by the special modifiers, since you press Q to activate it.
wide knot
Is it also considered dash-strike?
turbid needle
No.
unkempt pagoda
similarly, the dash attack is considered an attack for such modifiers
turbid needle
Was, but it turned out it was incredibly busted so it only get Special bonuses.
wide knot
Makes sense, double dipping would make it prettttty good
turbid needle
Yup, especially since Hunter Strike and Chaos Lunge boons provide such massive bonuses.
wide knot
Ya, are cast builds viable? They seem a bit weird.
turbid needle
Yeah.
Artemis's Cast used to hold the speedrun WRs.
Hunting Blades and Ice Wine are considered two of the strongest builds in the game, even.
tight junco
zeus/demeter/dionys cast duos work great together and have huge synegry
with dionys' cast
demeter cast worked great with artemis last patch and I believe it would work even better now, when there is a boon that gives frost debuff to it.
raw violet
hunter dash most definitely still affects dash-upper on fists
cunning urchin
@wide knot @turbid needle Dash-Upper is indeed a Dash-Strike in the current version. I do 90 damage with +100% from Hunter Dash and +25% from Family Favorite—no Special boon.
raw violet
same with chaos dash-strike
raw violet
interestingly, even though there's no difference in the wording, breaching does not affect the dash-upper
since that was asked recently
on my brief testing
lament coral
Does anyone know if the new upgrades are not available on some aspects?
aside from the unique 4th aspect upgrades, that is
cunning urchin
We should put something in feedback about that. The description for Breaching Cross could clarify that. Also, nobody ever knows that Dash-Uppers are Dash-Strikes until we tell them lol. (I didn't even know until @raw violet told me.)
wide knot
I was wondering why the damage didn't increase lol
shy void
Guys, there is any web when I can lookup builds for each weapon?
fast fern
I didn't know until you all told me last night
anybody know when the wiki will be updated?
turbid needle
Whenever community members step up and do it.
cunning urchin
Whenever anybody updates it. You yourself could update some of it.
turbid needle
There's a few people around here that are doing their best to take care of it after it was neglected badly for a few months.
fast fern
let's all get on that
cunning urchin
@shy void there's no website like that. But @raw violet has a list of high heat clears that lists some of the most important boons/hammers for each run; and all the videos are linked, so you can look at them and see what the build was and how it was used.
shy void
Thanks!
cunning urchin
That's the one.
But you can also ask here for any tips with any ideas you have or aspects you struggle with.
wide knot
Its a shame, I thought I would like more weapons but it seems the spear is the only one I really enjoy.
shy void
Thanks again mate! I will check it rn
wide knot
I have a solid 200% dash strike bonus this run and no dash strike.
cunning urchin
What do you mean you have no dash-strike?
fast fern
what aspect do you use and what are your go-to boons with Malphon?
cunning urchin
If you dash then press attack during the dash, that's a dash-strike.
lament coral
Demeter aspect, Artemis special, Athena attack/dash
get Long Fist and Kick upgrades
you're all set
wide knot
Wonder if that's bugged o.o cause the description is as you describe
cunning urchin
My main build is Zagreus Aspect with Divine Strike > Hunter Dash in Tartarus or Asphodel > avoid crit boons from Lady Artemis and aim for Support Fire + Deadly Reversal. Fill the other core slots meanwhile (but not with boons from Lady Artemis!) to improve your odds of getting the boons you want from Ladies Athena and Artemis.
lament coral
Zag, really?
cunning urchin
Yes.
lament coral
what are your upgrades? Slow Fist?
neon bramble
I just had a curse of drowning build on Talos aspect... And it was STRONG
dry ember
Ah yes, nurse of drowning
neon bramble
Like... Melted redacted in 10s
mighty ermine
nyaa leans fully into deflection uptime on attack lol
dry ember
The infamous new character in Hades
neon bramble
Lmao
lament coral
Nurse! Drown them!
neon bramble
Fixed
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross is top priority. The rest don't matter too much.
lament coral
is that really more damage than dash-special with Demeter?
cunning urchin
Zag Aspect has the best synergy with Divine Strike + Support Fire.
mighty ermine
not more damage, no
dry ember
I now prefer Demeter
Since I don't use Divine Fists
And Dem Upper melts bosses
Which is my biggest weakness
mighty ermine
yeah, i mostly use demeter and grab explosive upper if i can, but zag works too
almost never use talos, comparatively
lament coral
yeah, I gave up on Talos as well
you're at the mercy of Long Fist
plus the special hits only 1 enemy
cunning urchin
It's a solid build that works on any heat. If you don't get Divine Strike, you can just pick up Divine Dash instead and go for Merciful End or Lightning Strike.
mighty ermine
i do like the synergy that manthro brought up just a minute ago, though, considering talos debuff boosts cast damage against enemies
curse of drowning seems made for talos in that respect
cunning urchin
Or Divine Dash + Divine Strike for a mostly free run (except for very high heat due to TD2 with JS3 etc.)
neon bramble
I'm not a fan of Talos either, but I had Colossus knuckle and the cast boost for curse of drowning.... It worked extremely well
cunning urchin
I've also picked up Divine Dash first, then Divine Strike along the way in Tartarus, then sold Divine Dash in Asphodel to get Hunter Dash.
dry ember
I thought about using Talos to pull enemies closer to utilize Lightning Strike
cunning urchin
Talos is pretty solid and gives you a lot of control.
dry ember
But it's extremely clunky xD
lament coral
what's the point of using Talos with casts though? Both Poseidon and Achilles offer superior damage against all enemies
cunning urchin
The key is dash-cancelling your pull.
lament coral
hell, Beowulf would be better, too
neon bramble
+40% damage on curse of drowning is nothing to sneeze at
dry ember
I mean no one is arguing that Talos is good
cunning urchin
Hmm. For a cast build, Talos can give you control with Blizzard Shot. But I would actually use that primarily for Attack builds somewhat similar to what I do with Zag Aspect.
neon bramble
I prefer Demeter aspect, don't get me wrong
dry ember
Just that it you use fists, you have one option for cast build
cunning urchin
Talos is very good.
dry ember
In comparison with other aspects?
stuck elbow
tbh the fists overall has very strong aspects all around
dry ember
I'll have to disagree there
neon bramble
Zag aspect is the weakest, but still good
All 3 are useable which is more than I can say for other aspects
dry ember
That would be Talos imo
untold quiver
I'm coming around on Demeter a little more now that I'm doing better at my room clearing without special
neon bramble
Zag sword.... Looking at you
dry ember
Now if longer dash distance gives you more i frames
Maybe there is an argument there
But alas that's not the case
mighty ermine
the thing with talos' pull being dangerous to use on armored foes because it won't flinch them severely limits its use at higher heat
especially with BP foes everywhere
neon bramble
I call it the banana sword because it feels like I'm slipping and sliding everywhere
cunning urchin
I think Talos has potential to be the strongest, but I think it's the most difficult to bring out its full potential.
neon bramble
Put divine flourish on Talos special and the pull is no longer dangerous
mighty ermine
i'm still not sure if optimal talos use would beat out consistent explosive dash-uppers with demeter, to be honest
the burst is just too huge
stuck elbow
yeah, fully upgraded Demeter liquifies stuff
cunning urchin
I'm not a fan of Demeter Aspect.
stuck elbow
with like any %+ special
cunning urchin
Well, I like it but not on high heat.
mighty ermine
i like it just fine on high heat 
untold quiver
I think Talos gives you better sustain which if your problem is room clearing then it's going to do better
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect has the best DPS potential.
mighty ermine
due to the internal cooldown of bolts and how quickly the dash-upper chains hits, probably not the best
neon bramble
It works