...what is this run
#h1-builds-and-combat
crystal wing
I'm probably dumb for asking this but say I pick up an aphrodite special upgrade, will I never run into another special upgrade as easily to replace it unless I sell it
because I swear once u pick a boon for any slot its much harder to find a replacement boon than if u didn't have one
or i'm wrong and i'm going insane 
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's correct. Exchanges are very very rare.
hushed ledge
exchanges are rare enough that sometimes you'll just get 2 options when you could have gotten an exchange as well
crystal wing
So if I want an attack, special, or cast upgrade I skip getting it until I get it from the god I want. For example if I want an Ares attack boon, and the first two rooms are Zeus and Aphrodite for attack, I skip out on getting them until I run into Ares?
hushed ledge
yep
crystal wing
gotcha
hushed ledge
The boon system is what makes this game unique imo
crystal wing
thanks, I wasn't 100% sure it worked like that, but thanks for clearing that up the both of u
hushed ledge
np
crystal wing
hushed ledge
being able to go "I want to aim for this, which needs X,Y, and Z, how realistic is this and if it is how can I get there" is a huge unique trait
crystal wing
So I guess optimally you would start the run with the maxed out trinket of the god you want, then change it in the second biome?
crystal wing
makes sense 
livid comet
Hera bow with Dio cast and auto reload is Hella fun
peak hound
hey how good is the || thanatos|| keepsake?
random hull
It is as good as you as a player are - rewards skill heavily (it is by no means simple to match the condition), and to get the most of it, you can't take it off.
peak hound
in most of my runs i iether get it to 12% or 30% if im having a good build
mostly thanks to starting stages
torpid orbit
You can take it at the start if the run, and if you proc it 14-18% you can keep it and hope to improve
Or swap out if you want to finish build/take something more valuable
peak hound
i think the best way to use it is keeping it for the entire run and if by the end it dosent have like 20 or 30% change it to aconr or something else
cunning urchin
It's basically never worth it for high heat runs.
hushed ledge
In theory we could probably use it if we routed out an entire seed
cunning urchin
If you did 32+ almost entirely hitless up to Finalus Bossus, having the keepsake or not wouldn't really matter lol.
peak hound
also can somone explain to me the satyr tunnels (the small ones not the big rooms) ? (as in they arent encounters [dont increase keepsakes like || thanatos or hermes||] [but consume items] so what re they?)
hushed ledge
Jank is the answer you're looking for
cunning urchin
They're—wait for it—Satyr Tunnels. 
I don't think there's an official name for them.
torpid orbit
You can say "Temple of Styx" i guess
peak hound
hey did you guys know that if you get ||the bonus death defience from chaos|| then die and get kiss of styx (or kiss of styx premium ) you get it back like a normal charge?
i tought it was a bonus and so wouldnt be re obtained
crystal wing
how does one save a seed? I saw Haelian talking about saving it when he beats hades? I thought it only saved if you quit or gave up at the start?
sudden dagger
Nice @peak hound I never knew that. I've also only ever seen it once, and I automatically take chaos gates
@crystal wing I think you copy the save file in windows explorer and use it somehow, but others could tell you better
peak hound
i got like 8 respowns in a run thatnks to that (still lost tough)
random hull
Is Chaos' Defiance influenced by Olympian Legacy? The name wouldn't suggest it, but the wording of the upgrade doesn't explicitly exclude it.
dry ember
@crystal wing you can give up later in the run and the seed will remain. In fact, you can give up to the black death screen as long as you don't let the animation plays out entirely.
When Haelian talks about saving the seed, did you actually see him giving up? It might be a joke...
crystal wing
I didn't see him giving up
iirc the video just cuts after he beats hades (though it was taken from a stream I imagine)
on another note. If you have to give up before u finish the run, then what's the point? The run will never add to anything game wise. I guess if you want to test/optimize builds and go for record speed runs?
hearty warren
Anyone have tips for the adamant rail? No matter what I do it just feels like I don't do damage (cept for that one time I found the shotgun upgrade for it)
dry ember
Well exactly that. Let's say you use AP2 and RI1, which basically leaves your first boon completely at the mercy of RNG, and somehow you get an epic attack still, that's incredibly rare.
For high heat runs, that's a big bonus. You want to save the seed so you can have the same start again.
For normal gameplay, saving the seed is almost never worth.
crystal wing
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for clearly explaining it
hearty warren
I mean, it depends on what I'm offered haha
crystal wing
I haven't used the rail much, Foo, but I do find the chill effects to be good with it
dry ember
There are always room for experimentation, but, I do find Lightning Strike to be very reliable on Zag Rail
hearty warren
hrm, not sure I've been offered that but it sounds good haha
dry ember
Each bullet does 10 damage
Actually don't quote me on that 10 figure, essentially it's low.
But with Lightning Strike add another 15 for each on top
hearty warren
yeah, it's low haha
dry ember
So that's is 100% or more damage increase
Beat even the largest damage steroid that is Heartbreak Strike at 97%
hearty warren
so, effect adding boons over damage increasing boons like hangover, lightning and such?
dry ember
Not to include the extra bounce
Yes
I find Dio to be quite weak tbh unless you find the Dio Aphro duo which lets you stack more
hearty warren
I like dio a lot, but usually only one boon
especially the hangover on dash
useful for getting the double debuff effect that increases your damage
dry ember
You will stack 5 stacks so quickly that the attack speed from Rail is overkill
hearty warren
yeah, true
dry ember
But again, room for experimentation.
hearty warren
well, I mean, I feel like the answer can't be "just get this one zues boon"
dry ember
Doom fists of all thing is quite strong.
So who knows, doom rail might be a sleeper
But if you are struggling, Lightning Strike Rail is quite tried and true.
hearty warren
I've just only got it at heat 3 because I find myself never wanting to play it
dry ember
I haven't used the rail much, Foo, but I do find the chill effects to be good with it
Actually if you can find Artic Blast, this is really good, too.
hearty warren
because every time I play it the run takes like 45 minutes and each fight takes forever
dry ember
How much faster are your other weapons?
lament coral
it goes the same way for me whenever I play the rail without Zeus attack
hearty warren
usually like 32 minutes-38 minutes depending on how many satyr rooms I take
dry ember
Are you using Calisthenic Program by any chance?
hearty warren
def not with rail haha
I think the last run with rail was extreme measures and two convience fees or smth
dry ember
Ok just making sure. Don't use that haha.
hearty warren
Well, sometimes I do with shield or bow which are much higher heat
since I never have issues with damage on them, and those are my best weapons overall
I also pretty much exclusively use the butterfly trinket that gives 2% damage for cleaing rooms without damage. I usually get it to about 30%, a little more as I've gotten better
so... is adamant rail just not very good I guess?
lament coral
there's Hestia
personally, I don't like its gameplay style but it is incredibly powerful, even with 0 boons
and you can easily force Zeus attack by starting with his keepsake
well, easier
hearty warren
yeah, but then I lose like 20% damage increase T-T
dry ember
so... is adamant rail just not very good I guess?
Zag Rail needs Spreadfire. But Hestia is really strong
Maxed Hestia that is
Hestia with Deadly Strike is one of the best single boon weapon out there.
hearty warren
which one is hestia again?
random hull
Third Rail aspect. Empowers the first shot (making it a bolt-action weapon, if played like intended).
hearty warren
I'll try that
random hull
A fully upgraded Hestia Rail has 150 base damage on the first shot, which is huge.
hearty warren
yeah, probably why I haven't unlocked it yet lol
random hull
(message deleted) Sorry, wrong channel.
sand cape
i would also say hestia have more flexibility, if things dont go your way you dont have to rely on the first shot, and just go for other stuff like zeus
hearty warren
I tried hestia and it was a cakewalk, really fun
torpid orbit
Its better then bow because you dont have to charge it up, but bow scales better with hammers and deals more AOE in general
sand cape
also, shield with that charged shot is better than bow
dry ember
Wow the bow hate is real. Remember guys, all weapons are bow.
hearty warren
I prefer the bullrush over the projectile because the chaos aspect shield is insane, and it helps to be able to rush in right behind them
sand cape
oh the bow is great, too, but i love the ability to shot from affar and also block
hearty warren
For me the most fun thing is getting a couple Poseidon boons (including the wall bang boon) on shield and fighting in the satyr tunnels
you just obliterate the entire room in under a second while flying around back and forth
torpid orbit
I love bow tho!
rare topaz
Peak waterbending tbh
thick raptor
Are there specific reqs for legendary boons, or is it just luck?
sand cape
specific boons you must own
thick raptor
That's what I had seen, but also keep finding "its a mystery" and no listing of them
sand cape
google image for "god name" boons
you will find charts that show the boons and what other boons it unlock
for example, you wont get high tolerance if you dont have trippy shot
thick raptor
Ahh, cool I'm seeing them now
sand cape
also, just because you have the required boons, it doesnt mean they will be offer, thats why people run "olympian legacy" in the mirror
thick raptor
Yeah, I've got that filled up and was having difficulty finding the reqs (and now feeling derpy on it being in the picture in the wiki, just not on the chart_
sand cape
i find athena legendary to have low chance
even when you have the required boons she doesnt offer it often
other boons have very specific requirements like black out
thick raptor
Thanks for the help
torpid orbit
i was looking for Athena legendary through like, 5 her boons and whole run
Then i had to sell it to buy diamond off the shop 
sand cape
i run golden touch to get titan bloods, when diamonds show up instead it is soul crushing, but it means i get to buy a lot of stuff in styx, once i bought the whole shop
stoic thicket
I never got one of those Titan Bloods from the Charon shop. Occasionally traded up an Ambrosia but otherwise the bounties were enough, I'd rather spend my money than save it for a 50% chance at Styx.
sand cape
i do it all the time, but it is because im on low heat, in 40 wins i got 25 extra titan blood
well more like in 80 runs, i got 25 extra
torpid orbit
run 98
Nyx congrats me on obtaining pact of punishment
i feel like i broke a lot of dialogue by completing game too fast for first time
main osprey
yup
naive tusk
dry ember
🍑 Peach
I actually failed 3 attempts at that xD. I made it to Hades everytime but I'm used to facetanking him so no DD is ruff.
naive tusk
Doggo 🐶
Aw, hehe, if you've made it that far I'm sure you can finish it. Keep it up!
I will update the Hall of Fame by the last day of the challenge 
cunning urchin
I'm not sure he can finish it. Don't wanna give him any false hopes.
dry ember
Is this every week. So it will end this Sunday?
At least I don't die to Hydra in Asphodel like you did Nyaa 
You will see Elysium one day
cunning urchin
Lernie is hard.
naive tusk
Well, I wasn't planning on making weekly challenges until people asked for another challenge this week after the last challenge I set. It will be fun to set them weekly or every 2 weeks, depending on how things develop.
dry ember
Well I'll do it for fun.
naive tusk
That's the point! To have fun and enjoy 
dry ember
Get my footage collection together
naive tusk
I just added that hall of fame as a mini-reward because I don't have anything else to offer, but the focus is to enjoy something new, fresh and thrilling!
magic dagger
FoxHope, Nyaanyaa Mewmew, and anyone else doing peach's challenge:
-don't use FO
-don't approach the final boss by dashing, unless he is summoning urns, or cooling down after using lasers. just run up to him and attack/special, so you can dash away
-don't use more than the first hit in the basic attack combo: the 25 dmg. chop isn't worth the time it takes to come out
Also, you've got this!
dry ember
I just use dash spam
So I don't understand what you are talking about xD
Peach, what's the name for the first week challenge?
The duster one
magic dagger
You can't dash spam without greatest reflex
naive tusk
Oh, you want me to make a picture of it too?
magic dagger
bc RI4
dry ember
Vid coming soon
naive tusk
Peachy Weekly Challenge #1: A Quick Dust Up!
dry ember
No i just need the name so I can name my vid xD
naive tusk
That was the name Firespirit came up with and I like it
dry ember
Just a little completionist thing
You can dash strike spam, just special dash strike special
Not as good but better than using the combo
naive tusk
Be sure to post it in #self-promotion and ping me so I can take note of it
dry ember
:D I will make sure my stuff goes to the right place
low urchin
this challenge, can I do it on tech.beta?
sterile portal
Yeah, ping me as well Foxy
and @low urchin I did the challenge on beta myself, so I would assume the answer is yes
low urchin
nice, I think I will try it
dry ember
Yeah whichever version. But make sure you post your screenshot or contents to the appropriate channel
naive tusk
Yeah, you can do so on the technical beta as well.
low urchin
ok, thanks o/
livid comet
Aaah no I randomly had a bit of dialogue when picking up a Demeter boon
I skipped it and suddenly Zag knows Persephone is Demeter's mother
Can I find this dialogue again or is it on YT somewhere
:(
naive tusk
@unkempt geyser
This was last week's challenge. If I missed to add anyone to the hall of fame, be sure to tell! Congratulations @dry ember @fallow dust @sterile portal 🎊
sterile portal
Daww, thanks. Is there any way I could look at that Carrd website thing you made last night? It'd be nice to look back on challenged in the future
naive tusk
I didn't make one in the end 😦 But there's someone who was interested in making a spreadsheet recording the challenges. We'll see how that turns out
sand cape
i have a challenge idea but maybe it is too obvious
zeus roleplay, aspect of zeus, thunder signed, cant take any other boon unless it works with a duo boon of zeus
unkempt geyser
@livid comet ||Demeter:I don't suppose... no, it is nothing, little sprout, it's just... I hear such wicked rumors now and then, about my daughter, lost to me, and what became of her. Kore, we called her, then. Persephone is what she called herself. Before she vanished utterly, leaving no trace....||
luv that im getting pinged for lore, thats so funny
sterile portal
tatz, you're the bookkeeper, the lore maniac, and ares fanatic with strange taste
I don't think you should be too surprised
unkempt geyser
its extra funny to me bc i just woke from a nap to see that
helps if i was awake enough to know what i was talking about
magic dagger
tatz, you seem to have every line in the game recorded somewhere
unkempt geyser
i am just really good at finding specific things in a fairly timely manner :) peach knows, i was discussing this in dm last night lol
dim raven
how to get rare fishes my dudes?
i only get knuckleheads and scuffers :(
and i wanna make uncle posidon proud
magic dagger
don't look at the bobber
watch for a flash of light above it, and immediately press the button
hushed ledge
I move my right hand over for it
magic dagger
you'll usually get a perfect catch, which is usually a rarer fish
naive tusk
I play with gamepad so I react to the vibration
dim raven
i try to press E as fast as i can when i see the flash
but never had a perfect catch
only these damn knuckleheads
read on the wiki you need to press within .34 of a second
grave tapir
I sometimes use my dominant hand to get 'perfect catch' pressing E
dim raven
and i dont think ive ever pressed E that fast
grave tapir
To get it super fast its more of a 'muscle twitch' than a "press" for me.
dim raven
ill try those
still its like being lighting fast man
im not hermes in this bi*** lol
grave tapir
Yeah its crazy fast
dim raven
gotta give it to supergiant tho
grave tapir
Sometimes I wish it was purely chance % that gave you rare fish so that I had a better chance, but then it doesn't reward people who are super fast
dim raven
bouldy best npc they made in all of thier games combined
dim raven
i feel they went super simple on the fishing cuz in every other game there's almost the same mini game with keeping a bar at some level
you know what imean
like in stardew valley if i recall correctly
so i get why they went this super simple wayh
but yeah id like a 2% chance or something
but that would mean you'd never get the chaos fish legendary
cuz 2% * 2%
grave tapir
I haven't played stardew but I know what you mean. I like the simplicity of hades fishing, but yeah rarities are challenging
ooof, I've only found 1 chaos fishing point anyway!
dim raven
me too
and that was after uncle posidon gave me the huge catch
right after i bought the fishing rod
so
grave tapir
nice! I was just super lucky
hushed ledge
For me at least catches are me actively putting my fingers on a hair trigger
sudden dagger
@dim raven one thing I do is squint and not blink. I envision my finger moving on the bumper beforehand to activate that brain-body connection. I made sure I'm not thinking about anything else. Inhale, exhale. Click the fishing spot. Stare at the bobber but with soft eyes. When I see the real flash, I'm not thinking, just reacting.
I mostly get perfect catch but I still get catch sometimes, especially if my mind gets distracted by a thought
What @hushed ledge said basically
grave tapir
I just take my glasses off to remove the bobber distraction 😆 Am so blind without them
sudden dagger
Your brain can react to visual stimuli more quickly than audio on average, I think (citation needed)
dim raven
im at elysium rn and 1 thing was an my mind quite a while, the enemy ai isnt the best in reacting to the enviorment
its obvious here because almost every chamber has big or many regenerating pillars and barrels
and the arrows DECIMATE enemies with600 dmg
and they are completly unaware of them
hushed ledge
yep
dim raven
just a thought
hushed ledge
that's part of the strategy of elysium
the enemies use your weapons against you, you use their environment against them
dim raven
yes but the dudes dash alot from you
but when they dont react to traps
and stay in barrels ranges
dim raven
and dont move from pillars so even with arrows somtimes you can collapse em and kill the archer near it
hushed ledge
that's literally the point of those things being there
dim raven
well it would add more depth imo if the enemyes would keep thier distance
hushed ledge
you'd just ignore it entirely
archers not staying near walls makes them far easier to kill
dim raven
its just they are oblivious to traps
hushed ledge
spear pokeys are walls
dim raven
yep and the archers gotta be away from them and be near regular old wals lol
magic dagger
I started with full health
hushed ledge
that's still real good
magic dagger
and full DDs
dim raven
lol nice
hushed ledge
now you just gotta win 
dim raven
and skelly trinket
hushed ledge
acorn refreshes iirc?
so you use acorn 100%
because it's just strictly better tbh
hushed ledge
dim raven
😭 😭 😭 😭
hushed ledge
It also just generally sucks tbh
sterile portal
Skelly’s trinket is decent, it just loses to Acorn at higher heats. I used to use skelly in Elysium when struggling against TD2 there
sterile portal
Blizz shot nukes most things. Side note though, why zag sword?
dim raven
i use skelly almost every time why does is suck?
gives me safety in styx (for final boss mainly) with 1 more life
and acorn block a couple of hits
how is that better?
magic dagger
Blizz shot nukes most things. Side note though, why zag sword?
@sterile portal why not?
look at my profile pic and take a guess, if you will.
magic dagger
how is that better?
@dim raven the damage of 5 hits from the final boss is usually much greater than 50-100 hp
sterile portal
Zag sword is just so much worse (imo) than all other aspects
untold vortex
that's a fair opinion, every aspect don't work for everyone
5 hits from final boss is at minimum 100 (and that's if you're super unlucky)
but it's usually anywhere from 150 - 200+ depending on what you get hit by
low urchin
I did the weekly challenge \o/
naive tusk
@low urchin Congratulations! I watched the whole fight vs the final boss. That was amazing! I will be adding your name to the hall of fame 
modest urchin
i am not sure if this the right channel for it, but is it normal to not have any secret aspects unlocked after 20+ clears?
naive tusk
Do you mean the other aspects in general or one in particular?
sand cape
the final aspect are not subject to time, but to special conditions
naive tusk
For the other aspects to appear in general, you need to unlock all the weapons in the courtyard and then make an escape attempt.
modest urchin
guan yu
naive tusk
To unlock Varatha's 4th aspect: ||spend 6 Titan Bloods across multiple aspects and then talk to Achilles to learn how to unlock it.||
modest urchin
i've spent over 40 bloods across multiple weapons, and ~5 on the spear. :/
do i need to spend 6 blood on the spear itself?
naive tusk
I don't think so. Does Achilles say something about it?
modest urchin
nope
naive tusk
He's the one who will help you unlock it. You could try spending a 6th TB on Varatha and see if that triggers it.
naive tusk
I see you, Oak 👀
tepid ridge
It could just be getting stuck behind Achilles’ dialogue lines. Pacing modification has happened a lot as the devs retroactively add new story and lines over early access. As long as he still has exclamation marks popping up after runs then I imagine the Varatha proc will filter through eventually.
modest urchin
he doesn't even have ! anymore lol
at least not after the last run i had, which i used the spear in case i had to. 😐
i'll just spend a bit more blood on the spear itself and play more i guess
i do think i might be stuck in his other quest
tepid ridge
Yea it fluctuates. My bet is that all the new dialogue added in the beta (assuming you’re playing it), or at least his other commentary generally is taking priority. It can’t hurt to spend a bit on the spear as well, 1st and 2nd aspects are pretty fun imo. Maybe try ||Aspect of Achilles|| specifically to see if that jogs his memory. I would only chalk it up to a bug if you go several runs more without any dialogue from him whatsoever.
modest urchin
yeah i actually really like the first aspect. i tried the other one you mentioned but it's disorientating for me
sudden dagger
Hey Peach, I made a lot of progress on the challenge. Wasn't getting out of Tartarus at first. On my last run I died in elysium
occasionally I'll be aiming towards an enemy on the controller, but Zag swings another way and I lose the stun lock. Especially if I'm in a weird corner. Unfortunately that's what happened.
Hi Oak!
naive tusk
It happens to the best of us, but I believe in you
modest urchin
i think it's the assist aim thing
sudden dagger
my thoughts too
however the ranged weapons and casts are very hard to use without aim assist
(although I did it for my first ~100 runs or so without noticing... I also didn't clear until run 101)
modest urchin
i think what helps me the most is tilting my joystick slightly in the direction i'm hitting someone and it'll always aim towards that foe
sudden dagger
instead of the full tilt, ey
sudden dagger
I need to try that out. I think in the heat of the moment I full on push the joystick the direction I'm going/aiming without much subtlety
I've had to train myself to flick-aim instead of smash-aim
modest urchin
yea bow is okay because you have time to adjust a bit as needed during the power shot
is it called power shot i don't remember lol
sudden dagger
I think it is
livid comet
@unkempt geyser Hey, thanks for that! I wish we could replay dialogue between zag and other characters
I need to try that out. I think in the heat of the moment I full on push the joystick the direction I'm going/aiming without much subtlety
@sudden dagger
There's another way to aim? 
sudden dagger
Yeah -- as people have been teaching me, if you have autoaim on, you just kind of flick the joystick towards the baddie, and autoaim will lock on and follow them around
modest urchin
okay i just checked. 7 blood spent on the spear and achilles does not want to talk to me at all. no !
modest urchin
he's maxed on nectar
willow pilot
hm
untold vortex
Probably just bad luck unfortunately :(
Achilles just wants to talk about other things and not about spear-chan
modest urchin
is my game just bugged lol https://i.imgur.com/JqORJn0.png
willow pilot
it could really just be bad luck?
modest urchin
when i talk to him, he says ||"i have nothing left to teach you" ||
untold vortex
Your best bet it do more runs unfortunately
modest urchin
i just wanted to try the new weapons before they get nerfed more and more 😭
untold vortex
And hope achilles wants to talk about spear-chan on return to house
willow pilot
That line he says is one of his stock phrases when he doesn't have any exclamation points
modest urchin
i don't have to do more runs with the spear right? just any weapon?
untold vortex
Yeah just any weapon
willow pilot
Yeah, it's just getting more runs for more dialogue
rare topaz
Spear.
... Pretty sure it has the || blood requirement 4th aspect sword does, right? ||
modest urchin
is that 10? or 5?
i did 7 on the spear
i'm just gonna do a few more runs and spend even more blood. if it doesn't work still i'll come back tomorrow.
untold vortex
5
sterile portal
Hey non-beta people, can anyone let me know if the bow's targetting indicator (for attack) stops at the first enemy in its way, or just passes through in a line?
willow pilot
pretty sure it's a line
carmine rivet
the shot preview while charging should pass under foes, yes. all arrow attacks also pierce foes anyhow
carmine rivet
attacks, not specials mind.
sterile portal
attacks of course
carmine rivet
i haven't used chain shot enough to remember
bronze sorrel
Yes, it does change. When it hits the first target it will bounce to a nearby target if available, or if not it keeps traveling in the same direction.
livid comet
hey
it also bounces off walls
I think
but also, when can you give up a run
it keeps saying quit
cunning urchin
After you take damage in a chamber.
dry ember
or right up to the black screen of death
cunning urchin
That is after you take damage in a chamber.
dry ember
You stated the earliest point possible, I stated the latest point possible
fervent spoke
Any tips for aspect of Hera? Heat 2 - i tried different combinations of Dyoniseus / Aphrodite / Arthemis and even once Zeus - but did not get the Fully Loaded legendary once. And what are the best weapon miodifiers to get?
hushed ledge
stygian soul is really good with hera
dio cast
just play it like normal bow but your cast is funky
dry ember
Did you see the pin?
naive tusk
LOL
torpid orbit
i wonder how poseidon + rail works
and if knockback can make normal shots efficient
hushed ledge
Pos + Zeus build (note: this literally only works if you get the duo otherwise Zeus is gaaarbo)
weapon: not ranged
I think I did shield?
but basically you're hoping rupture carries you
because all your other boons sure won't
ngl the further down the alphabet a god is the worse it is except for hermes
livid comet
🤔
narrow rampart
damn i do be thinkin
damn it do be like dat
oh geez is the alphabetical ordering of the gods my actual ordering for my tier list, now?????
livid comet
zeus worst
narrow rampart
i only pick zeus on chaos shield
hushed ledge
i never pick zeus if i can avoid it
narrow rampart
yeah that's all
hushed ledge
it's just so awful
hushed ledge
obviously the A's aren't in full alphabetical order
narrow rampart
his legendary is nice but it's such a gamble
hmmm
I'd put Demeter above some of the As tho
hushed ledge
i wouldn't simply because she needs certain conditions
narrow rampart
I'd put her at least above Aphro, tbh
narrow rampart
I don't like Aphrodite's tier 2s
livid comet
Aph hits like a truck
hushed ledge
aphro is so good
livid comet
Makes all my Excalibur and GY runs work
narrow rampart
she does but she's the most straight forward, i feel
hushed ledge
ye but straight forwards works
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(an infinity later)>>>>>>>>>>>>other gods
livid comet
Grab Aph on GY special or Excalibur attack, get Sweet Surrender, ????, Profit
narrow rampart
indeed
livid comet
??? < grab whatever boons suit the build you're goin for
me and 6kj over here collabed on a GY run
sorta
hushed ledge
I need to find the actual numbers for different gods sometime
hushed ledge
yeah
narrow rampart
It's all on the wiki I think
cunning urchin
Of course she's that far ahead. Lady Aphrodite is the bestest goddess in every way. 
livid comet
Yeah, GY with Charged Skewer and Addled Flourish and Aphrodite Special
torpid orbit
I take zeus on fists
hushed ledge
i don't think wiki has numbers for everything
livid comet
AND Hermes swift flourish
narrow rampart
zeus on fists is actually good
but honestly at that point I'd just prefer to take Demeter
hushed ledge
you give up so much
livid comet
zeus on fists is actually good
but most anything on fists is good
narrow rampart
With her ice blast tier 2 boon I forgot its name
but most anything on fists is good
Lmao, touche
naive tusk
Arctic Blast 
narrow rampart
YE
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike on Malphon is way better than Frost Strike.
hushed ledge
I generally try to avoid taking gods for t2's because then i'm using a worse boon until then
narrow rampart
Arctic blast is genuinely my favourite boon
livid comet
Dio attack on fists 🤔
cunning urchin
Sucks.
hushed ledge
it's worse than you'd think imo
livid comet
😦
hushed ledge
dio attack in general is ehhh
narrow rampart
dio attack on fists kinda sucks, yeh
hushed ledge
dio atk/special is bleh
hushed ledge
dio dash is a great privileged enabler
narrow rampart
heck
hushed ledge
I raise you "using zag bow because zag bow is cool and I suck at ranged weapons lol"
narrow rampart
not with crush shot 
livid comet
I ended up getting Bad News and Auto Reload from Hermes for each run with Hera
(I was using Stygian Soul, which is actually awesome)
narrow rampart
Stygian soul gang
Seriously tho i LOVE crush shot but the hit detection on it esp. with Hera bow is so weird sometimes
cunning urchin
The problem with Drunken Flourish on Chiron is to keep ahead of other Special boons, you need to hit a different target every time, and that means you need to do an Attack after every Volley to hit a new target. And on bosses you're falling behind regardless because there are no other targets.
narrow rampart
yeppp
Aphro attack is strong on its own
just keep power shotting until the stacks fall off
hushed ledge
i'm slowly starting to believe that stygian is both better QoL and just stronger outside of pos aspect
narrow rampart
same j
cunning urchin
Yes, but then you might as well not use Chiron.
torpid orbit
i wish i could replace normal boon with epic boon at least later in the run
it just sucks to start the run without a good boon or stick with it till the end of the run
narrow rampart
bruv but then you won't have the homing special for faster Dio stacks
torpid orbit
It actually works
cunning urchin
You're not getting the most out of Chiron with Drunken Flourish.
torpid orbit
With dio special i replaced normal boon with epic
narrow rampart
i wish i could replace normal boon with epic boon at least later in the run
hope for eurydice or rare crop ;_;7
how so, nyaa?
torpid orbit
I want to start a run with zeus on my fists, but then i just cant do anything with it
or i can wait for a while like with chaos lol and hope for rare/epic
narrow rampart
MAN i remember finding out that chiron special interacts differently with Zeus special
i was DEVASTATED
torpid orbit
Yeah, its just lightning strike instead of bolts :(
hushed ledge
i've come around on tempest flourish
narrow rampart
yep, and get the Zeus duo
hushed ledge
it's loads of damage and usually specials are higher commitment so it works well there
narrow rampart
Tbh dragon what I've been doing recently is
hushed ledge
pos attack is obviously meh
cunning urchin
I want to start a run with zeus on my fists, but then i just cant do anything with it
What do you mean? You can clear the game with just Lightning Strike on it.
narrow rampart
i start a run, see the rarety of the first boon offering
then give up, and theorise a build based on that
hushed ledge
what heat are you playing at twi?
narrow rampart
im post 10
torpid orbit
Also, every time i try to get Poseidon fish special i get it in Styx 
i want that chaos fish :(
narrow rampart
slowly moving towards 16 ||for skelly||
narrow rampart
Goddddd
hushed ledge
don't do EM3 on fists though
hushed ledge
EM3 is pure pain
cunning urchin
Lernie is hard.
narrow rampart
extreme measures
torpid orbit
The king and the bully
hushed ledge
EM2 is hard but doesn't feel as BS as EM3
livid comet
rip
narrow rampart
lernie is the hardest on em, i feel
hushed ledge
EM3 most of the times you get hit you're like "what the heck was that that's so dumb"
livid comet
A&M are just the worst boss
narrow rampart
but yeah Theseus and asterius are the most annoying because of time
torpid orbit
uhhh Asterius and Minotaur?
livid comet
indeed
hushed ledge
uhh
narrow rampart
I did em2 with zag aspect sword once
hushed ledge
you do realise asterius is the minotaur?
livid comet
I just realised tat
rip
also
Rail is my worst weapon now that I can excalibur
what do
narrow rampart
it's my least played now, too
narrow rampart
im trying to get the cluster bomb + rockets combo
livid comet
Hades is a game that just isn't conducive to standing still
narrow rampart
with either aphro or Artemis
livid comet
and rail requires that you stand still
hushed ledge
it's not even that df
narrow rampart
But rng keeps screwing me over
hushed ledge
it's that it feels like you're tickling them
livid comet
😂
torpid orbit
I think rail damage should be up to 13-15 so it keeps a bit less dps then fists
narrow rampart
And the lob grenade on its own is way too slow
narrow rampart
i feel like the rail is the most hammer dependant tbh
hushed ledge
lots of damage, huge aoe
livid comet
I mean the rail special isn't any different to Dio Cast
cunning urchin
@narrow rampart hmm you know actually, looking at some numbers, Drunken Flourish might be okay on it. I should give it another try sometime and do some tests with it.
narrow rampart
^
livid comet
and people seem to love Dio cast
livid comet
hm.
cunning urchin
People love Ice Wine. Trippy Shot is just the way to get there.
narrow rampart
yep, more or less
torpid orbit
Dio cast pros
Good damage
Nice crowd control
Easy to land
Dio cast cons
||Stuns Dusa companion
livid comet
also
narrow rampart
aren't we all
livid comet
I REALLY dislike that Stygian Soul in the mirror basically invalidates the entirely of Hera Bow
narrow rampart
SAME
livid comet
good thing I didn't invest any blood into it past unlocking it ig
narrow rampart
also same
hushed ledge
i wonder if it should also reduce stygian reload time
narrow rampart
yep
hushed ledge
it'd be even stronger though
livid comet
"Oh, you main Stygian Soul? Get rekt you scrub"
torpid orbit
Think about it like that
cunning urchin
I think Stygian Soul regen time could be higher and still be good.
torpid orbit
With Stygian you can make more shots through 10 seconds
But with 3 casts you can go chaining enemies
livid comet
right, but getting absolutely nothing from hera in the case that you use stygian soul is... terrible
narrow rampart
yeah, stygian is more sustained damage
livid comet
what are the prerequisites for Fully Loaded btw
cunning urchin
If they nerfed Stygian Soul to 4 sec, I'd still use it. But you'd have more reason to use Infernal Soul for some builds.
torpid orbit
I stopped using stygian because i keep getting this Demeter "no cast" boon every freaking run
narrow rampart
y'all does anyone enjoy using demeters cast
hushed ledge
demeter cast is fun but sucks
cunning urchin
@livid comet you need both Dual Shot and Exit Wounds.
untold vortex
Dual shot and exit wounds
narrow rampart
it's good for calls and stuff
cunning urchin
You only get Exit Wounds if you have a cast that lodges.
narrow rampart
but otherwise i don't like it
torpid orbit
Demeter cast with Crystal clarity is really nice
I think it deals the most of shots DPS possible with Stygian
narrow rampart
at that point might as well just get Ares cast
hushed ledge
(don't tell me that making an "unblockable" on a shield doesn't feel awesome)
carmine rivet
i believe dual shot can be got from true shot, and that exit wounds needs true shot
narrow rampart
I've never done Hera with Ares cast 🤔
cunning urchin
No, Exit Wounds needs any core boon from her + you can't have a cast that doesn't lodge.
narrow rampart
^
cunning urchin
Any core boon for Dual Shot, too.
narrow rampart
aspect of poseidon is the best one for going with an arti cast build, methinks
esp if you keep dislodging
so good
carmine rivet
dual shot def only needed a core boon
untold vortex
yeah, the boon charts are pinned here btw 
cunning urchin
Poseidon Aspect + True Shot was a WR speedrun in an earlier version.
untold vortex
if you want your best chances at fully loaded, avoid atri's attack special and pressure points
cunning urchin
- Fully Loaded
carmine rivet
exit wounds needs either true shot or dual shot, and a cast that lodges
cunning urchin
Ah, you're right.
carmine rivet
so if you get lucky, you only need arti's cast as a core
cunning urchin
I put the blame fully on @naive tusk's confusing boon chart. 
cunning urchin
'Tis not.
livid comet
...actually
naive tusk
livid comet
just had a though
cunning urchin
That's a good gif.
livid comet
are we still doing hades feedback?
because I'd really appreciate having some sort of visual indicator on Zag when using Stygian Soul and you have casts left to use
because otherwise I have to take my eyes off Zag to look at the little wee pie thing in the corner
hushed ledge
that would be nice
I mostly have the timing down intuitively now
bc i consistently use my cast always
livid comet
right but it would be super handy if there was something like that
naive tusk
Yes. You can submit feedback in #hades-feedback but just beware of the spoilers being posted there. Try to cover the other posts while you submit your feedback (or write it in another place and then copy&paste it in the channel).
livid comet
there's a visual cue for things like Ruthless dodge
so I don't see why Stygian Soul couldn't be the same
aight
cunning urchin
I'd probably mark that you're not playing the beta, too. So people know that when they vote.
untold vortex
the pins say that the channel is being used for tech beta feedback only
but will open up again once the update officially launches
cunning urchin
It's too late. The feedback is already written, and it's @naive tusk's fault. The end is near. We will all perish. 
naive tusk
I will protect you 💗
livid comet
behold, my Peach Shield!
cunning urchin
naive tusk
Not going to lie, your feedback is good ~~ in comparison to some others I've read~~ 
cunning urchin
That's some shade.
livid comet
ey, I like to think my feedback is usually sensible
naive tusk
We are all shades in the game of Hades~
livid comet
I would have thought someone else already said that re:Stygian Soul
cunning urchin
I thought we play a god.
livid comet
hm
naive tusk
No, that's Zagreus. We are onlookers
livid comet
is Zag a god?
naive tusk
Alecto calls him "god of thrash" 
lament coral
was one of Hades' channels removed? The one with suggestions, I think
naive tusk
#hades-suggestions there it is~
livid comet
uuh?
lament coral
no no, the one where you could up/downvote things
cunning urchin
I would have thought someone else already said that re:Stygian Soul
I've seen it before, actually, I'm very sure.
livid comet
hades-feedback is now #hades-feedback but other than that, idk
naive tusk
For the time being.
lament coral
ah, I see
naive tusk
Hey Zepp 
untold vortex
cunning urchin
Yep, that's the one.
livid comet
to my credit, I've only just started using Hera Bow yesterday, which is the only reason I'm even using Stygian Soul
untold vortex
I mean it's not a bad thing to suggest a thing that's already been sugegsted
cunning urchin
I sometimes forget I don't have Stygian Soul playing with RI4 lately.
livid comet
rip
untold vortex
F
cunning urchin
So I mash my cast button and nothing happens.
naive tusk
No shame in that. As I've said before, it can be difficult to keep track of what have been posted or not. If you haven't seen a piece of feedback or you missed it, there's no harm in posting something similar in #hades-feedback
It's bad if you post the same feedback as another if it can be read in the same page
Scrolling a bit up doesn't hurt either.
untold vortex
after the update releases if you're not participating in the tech beta
torpid orbit
Uhh, can someone help me a bit? How much upgrades of the right wing (With Achiless) you guys have in total? I bought everything and seem to have 17 right now, and i have no idea how to progress that, because it doesnt seem that i have everything
naive tusk
I'd love to help but I can't because I'm playing the technical beta 
torpid orbit
ill wait if someone else can assist me, im just curious cause it seems like i did everything besides ||upgrading weapon aspects i dont play||
dire bough
ive heard that having a god's boon after the first zone you use it in(where next boon is that gods) increases chance of that god's boons to show up, is that right?
untold quiver
@dire bough ... Correct if you already have a God's boon it makes it more likely that you get more
spare berry
Uhh, can someone help me a bit? How much upgrades of the right wing (With Achiless) you guys have in total? I bought everything and seem to have 17 right now, and i have no idea how to progress that, because it doesnt seem that i have everything
@torpid orbit once you have them all you get a tick at the contractor
torpid orbit
I know, but, i don
i dont see a way to obtain ones i dont have, cause it seems i progressed everything
still have 2 column types to buy tho from the main hall wing
oh okay
i have to buy every rag and every column type
it could be kinda spoilerish, but, thanks for the answer
spare berry
Oh sorry
torpid orbit
nah, just, spoil it down for the others i guess
stoic thicket
Sorry bot.
stoic thicket
i have to buy every rag and every column type
@torpid orbit IIRC you do ||not, the most expensive column type is enough to unlock the rest of the stuff in the west wing||.
Becaue my original message pinged you, bot just ate it because of a no-no word.
torpid orbit
oh, damn, i have it rn, but nothing popped up yet
maybe i should play more runs
98 runs rn
stoic thicket
Once I bought those two more things in the west wing popped up. Haven't bought those yet because good jesus lord in heaven are they expensive.
torpid orbit
i like how skeleton column is broken near painting corner :D
Once again, thanks for answers
Gonna play game for now just as it is, and if all the dialogue gonna be exhausted, well, gonna wait for next patch to fix, cause it seems i cant progress Zeus and Aphrodite too
grave tapir
Aphro has a known bug IIRC, and Zeus is possible with a bunch of dialogue related to certain other characters (but i haven't succeeded yet so cannot confirm)
unkempt pagoda
zeus needs specifically ||both duo convos with demeter for cold fusion (meaning, getting cold fusion from demeter and getting it from zeus)||
don't think there are any known bugs with zeus's locked hearts, but the bug with aphro's hearts will be fixed next update
torpid orbit
oh, so, i need to ||get duo on first try from zeus boon and from demeter boon||?
Gonna try
unkempt pagoda
you'd need at least two different runs to get them both
sand cape
he mean only the dialoge of course
torpid orbit
damn, im sorry for asking another question there, yet, i wonder, does effects like chaos boon for rarity counts towards chances for legendary?
Or nectar / ariadna thread
sand cape
dont recall, does it read, rare or better?
naive tusk
It does!
sleek ember
Aaaaaaa i finally met Than!!!
sudden dagger
Isn't it great! One of my most anticipated happenings in the game
magic dagger
"Zagreus realized that he's started to forget his own beginnings"
From Peach's weekly challenge #2
fortunately, the administrative chamber is here for us.
https://imgur.com/EiELGaY
untold vortex
post it in #beta-discussion-june20 @umbral lagoon ^_^
umbral lagoon
👌
it's just gameplay cause i need to post it somewhere
pls don't clean out the beta-discussion after beta is done kekw
untold vortex
all tech beta related things go into #beta-discussion-june20
I have no way of knowing what will happen with the tech beta channels after it's done 
magic dagger
Where is the Distant Memory?
that screen is the Distant Memory
orpheus put it in a box for me
dry ember
magic dagger
32 heat run with chaos shield
in elysium, chaos offers me 70% bonus enemies or -4 health per special, and approval process eats the other one
what can you even do at that point
main osprey
oof
probably bonus enemies
unless you're going an attack heavy build, which is possible
dry ember
Elysium doe
Pick it according to reward
Both are equally bad. That's what you get for using AP1, smh
naive tusk
Lysol recreated the distant memory, literally
sand cape
did you check the codex for his name?
if you dont check the codex, zag doesnt know his name and you cant gift him anything
magic dagger
thanks!
sand cape
the one and handsome patroclus
magic dagger
this is my second save file
so I haven't ever checked the codex (until just now)
hybrid wave
I don't have a lot of the resource you need for upgrades but which ||fist|| aspect is more fun? ||Talos or demeter||? [spoilers for weapon/its aspects]. They both seem neat
sleek ember
my gf prefers ||Talos|| so she's recommending that one; i haven't gotten that far
sand cape
i like || talos || because of the pulling enemies, very satisfying even at level one, but demeter have more damage potencial
livid comet
@hybrid wave neither. go with ||Zag||
build Athena Attack and Support Fire
Win everything
If possible get the Ath-Art duo boon and Hunter Dash
super good
burst through everything
hushed ledge
Fists are very much a 4A weapon
livid comet
4A?
hushed ledge
God names
livid comet
I mean any fist is just good
naive tusk
6kj!
hushed ledge
Hey!
naive tusk
How was your day? Are you streaming?!
livid comet
ymean go Aph, ath, art or a...?
naive tusk
Aw, oki. Hope it's going well!
hushed ledge
Thanks!
hushed ledge
But the tier list of gods minus Hermes is basically just alphabetical by first letter
4A's, 2D's, P, Z
naive tusk
Aphrodite 
> Ares 
> Artemis 
> Athena 
> Demeter > Dionysus 
> Poseidon 
> Zeus 
I like this rainbow 🌈
hushed ledge
Obviously the A tier isn't 100% right order but it's so close
The top gods either are really good dps, really good utility, or both
Mid tier is "sometimes you want this but they really only have a few good boons", pos is "special, cast sometimes, dash sometimes", Zeus is bad
sand cape
it kinda makes phase one harder than phase two
magic dagger
do the butterfly balls actually dash if you have MM on?
hushed ledge
Yep!
I managed to roll one for each add spawn once
Killed a good run
There's a reason I use my companion charge on an add phase lol
marble ridge
Rip no hermes
magic dagger
There's a reason I use my companion charge on an add phase lol
I don't have those
heh
hushed ledge
F
magic dagger
give me a break, peach. I only have 35 runs under my belt
naive tusk
And you are so good at the game already?! 
magic dagger
so obviously very little conversation progress for my resources and skill
the hundred or so runs on my previous file don't give me stuff on this one
willow pilot
Congrats!
magic dagger
now for an easy, calm 5 heat run
I will facetank everything for the glory of Hermes
magic dagger
I didn't take damage because stuff died too quickly
you can't blame this on me
what was Peach challenge #1?
naive tusk
cunning urchin
Yeah, it is.
crystal wing
good to know thanks
does it matter what 3 boon combination u got initially and what boon u currently have?
or can you roll from any sort of combination
cunning urchin
Can be anything. But you need to make sure you already have the required boons for it to even show up at all.
crystal wing
thanks just saw it on wiki
I was only paying attention to this
since duo boons stated what it required I thought this would too, but since it just said tier 3 I thought it was just up to chance
thank you
cunning urchin
Yeah, tier 2 and tier 3 boons always have certain requirements.
crystal wing
Noted!
cunning urchin
Yeah, @naive tusk, why is it.
cunning urchin
Because it's more complex and Peach wanted to keep it compact, I suppose.
naive tusk
Because it branches in 2 different directions: 1 with its crit-based boons, the other side is for its cast-related boons.
livid comet
so then the entry point for those two-way trees is in the middle?
naive tusk
Yes.
naive tusk
It's pretty intuitive. Doesn't take too long to notice.
livid comet
although anyone who's played Hades would be able to figure it out I suppose
cunning urchin
It would be useful, yes. I've said the same. It's not very intuitive right now.
livid comet
just thinkin out loud
cunning urchin
Maybe we'll get shiny 2.0 boon trees when the new update is out.
dry ember
I'm up for the rescue when the new patch arrives
cunning urchin
Or Peach. Peach could tell us.
livid comet
Wait, the rest of the Hermes boons aren't on the tree... because they're random I guess?
dry ember
My last obstacle is the Arte boons before I can finish my applet. But at this point I'm not finishing it if changes are afoot.
That just means they don't require prereq
And they don't lead to higher boons
cunning urchin
Tier 1 boons that are not a requirement for anything aren't shown on the boon trees. (I wish they were.)
livid comet
hmm
it would be much more complete and I wouldn't need to find another resource for those boons
aight, I'm missing one boon to complete Chaos and Arty each
cunning urchin
"Much more complete", as in, actually complete lol.
livid comet
hey I ain't gonna knock work someone else has done for free that looks really good
turbid needle
unkempt pagoda
things usually need a run, to reset the house
grave tapir
took a couple of runs for me
torpid orbit
Don't forget to ||check chaos gates||
livid comet
argh
why won't arty show up
yeah I checked them
seems like it only just triggered so I need to check another time
livid comet
good weapons for starting on arty with?
livid comet
sniper shot or chain shot?
hushed ledge
(it's +15% per which is notable)
Where are we?
livid comet
tart
hushed ledge
Because the biggest imo upshot for chainshot is ash
Then chain
It's really good early imo
livid comet
swt
hushed ledge
Amazing on hydra
livid comet
(got athena and art so far)
hushed ledge
Ath dash?
livid comet
art attack + dash, ath special
hushed ledge
God AthArt is my most common runs
Ath is obviously amazing
And art is just versatile
livid comet
yeah
I'm actually trying to grab Fully Loaded
but no idea if keepsakes work more than once per run for spawning artemis
hushed ledge
They don't
livid comet
damn
hushed ledge
Just don't run other god keepsakes
hushed ledge
Coins is always a good option
I should start using coins more
But I've gotten so used to using 2 or 3 god keepsakes
livid comet
oh yeah?
my past 20 or so runs have all been with Coin Purse at start
grabbing boons and coins in tartarus
livid comet
and everytime, I've bought either blood or diamond at the top