As shield I just like to bull rush everything LOL
#h1-builds-and-combat
turbid needle
native ether
I remember back in the original old days (back when we had the old pact that scaled up to 200 heat and the modifiers were different) where everyone was like "120 Heat is impossible on any weapon except the shield" and I posted a picture of 120 heat being beaten on the rail 
mighty ermine
oh nice!
native ether
that was also tbf back before Styx even existed. That was a very dated run.
mighty ermine
back in those heat number days i got one of the highest if not the highest heat clear, but also like you said, before styx was even a thing
it was 153, with shield of course lol
native ether
man I feel old
that was about the time I stopped try harding the heat difficulty mainly just cause I didn't have enough time to really try hard the game lol.
But yeah I'm attracted to incredibly aggro fast weapons, hence why Sword/Rail/Fists suit me pretty well. Shield I just never feel entertained by, but I'll use the Spear and Bow because I like how they play, despite being slower.
raw violet
I will throw in that a GY spin build with athena attack is incredibly safe if not downright hard to die in
it only really needs quick spin
mighty ermine
fists has quickly become one of my favorites, namely demeter aspect
native ether
ah yes the "your projectiles are not allowed to exist" strategy
mighty ermine
they nailed the aggressive play feeling
raw violet
not even projectiles
mighty ermine
along with that aspect's burst potential... i love it
raw violet
anything
stoic thicket
The sword is probably one of my worst weapons, can't really handle that thing with any degree of competency.
raw violet
all you need to learn how to do is the dash-spin
stoic thicket
Fists are just a mountain of fun.
mighty ermine
right, but that's more of a case for GY survivability, which is fine
native ether
how to play sword:
- spam buttons wildly in the general direction of an enemy
- repeat until enemy is dead
- get Merciful End
mighty ermine
but for damage stuff like charged skewer or serrated edge are just better
stoic thicket
Dash Spin? How?
neon fiber
fists are indeed fun
raw violet
i'm not saying it's my favorite GY build, just that it is one
one that utilizes the spin
@stoic thicket hold to charge, dash to release
dash into your spin so it acts like a mobile shield
stoic thicket
That... sounds surprisingly dope.
native ether
im the weird person in the corner who loves to play with the Zagreus Aspect on the sword.
Cause s p e e d
mighty ermine
with GY's spin as a projectile, the dash-spin sends it faster and further than without the dash input
stoic thicket
I'll definitely give that shot.
raw violet
to shield you from all things so you can charge another before it runs out
yeah, it's a twofold effect, the spin goes farther and last longer AND you position yourself to be in a safe space
on any FO though, you have to use quick spin, otherwise enemies will be able to poke through
stoic thicket
I'll usually run FO1, FO2 has been to scary thus far.
Tried it once, Hades smorced my butt.
raw violet
it's ultimately more work with less payoff than other GY builds
native ether
i still want to make a really silly video using running in the 90s thats all about getting the literal biggest speed boost in Hades
mighty ermine
at one point while stacking several ignited ichors and having an epic hermes speed boon, i was outrunning my own casts trying to return to me
by a lot
it was goofy
native ether
ah but have you tried stacking a 40% Epic Hermes Speed Boost with Drift Dash, Zag Aspect Sword, and Lambent Plume
raw violet
the real question is, do i want to?
native ether
yes
reminder that we have this beautiful meme pinned for a reason :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_AQEGGwn98
Drift Dash is a really underrated boon
mighty ermine
i just find it awkward to use effectively
raw violet
the only thing the pins educate me on is that this server used to have way more memes in them
mighty ermine
so i hardly ever take it
native ether
there are so many great memes
stoic thicket
Drift Dash is one of my go-tos for Hermes when he starts being a cheap jerk again and isn't giving me what he's supposed to do.
cunning urchin
Drift Dash is budget Greatest Reflex.
native ether
yeah but its more fun to use than greatest reflex
edgy sparrow
Greatest reflex with less invincibility
cunning urchin
Not dying thanks to Greatest Reflex is more fun.
edgy sparrow
5 dashes in a row is pretty fun lol
raw violet
the speed boost throws me off the most in asphodel
edgy sparrow
Especially with something like ares dash
cunning urchin
Heroic Greatest Reflex + Drift Dash is the real way to go dash.
cunning urchin
But what Dash boon to go with it?
turbid arch
Athena
native ether
man y'all are no fun, its more fun to race the Flame Wheels in Elysium and do loop-de-loops around the charging EM Minotaur than it is to not die
turbid needle
Athena or Poseidon
turbid arch
So that you become untouchable in more than just one way.
Poseidon would be hilarious for damage though, yeah.
cunning urchin
Permanent invincibility is indeed fun.
turbid arch
Zeus could also work nicely if you get his whole engine.
Demeter has some potencial too, but her damage can be hard to aim.
turbid needle
Even better is Poseidon dash with Zeus duo
turbid arch
Hell, you could even make a case for 6 blade rift dashes
cunning urchin
Blade Dash on Malphon is quite effective, but I don't use that on any of my high heat attempts.
turbid arch
I do not remember ever having seen a high heated run with Ares' blade rifts.
I wonder why.
turbid needle
Because you'd likely choose to go Ares and not choose either his cast/his doom early on
Or you get him later and you just get his damage up boons
That's literally it
turbid arch
If given the chance, I would like to avoid Ares almost everytime
turbid needle
^
cunning urchin
It's fate. You can be the first to do a high-heat Blade Dash run.
turbid needle
Time to pull out the Zag aspect sword again, uh ?
turbid arch
I have a video for moments like these
On a serious note, I am not doing any more high heated runs until the next update.
mighty ermine
if anything, wouldn't the increased dash distance from zag aspect sword just make getting damage from blade rifts more difficult though
cunning urchin
I tried a run with Talos Aspect on 33 heat today. Wow, that did not go well. Getting Flood Shot was nice, but that Magnetic Upper is some kamikaze attack.
mighty ermine
talos aspect... groan
turbid arch
By that standard, Serrated Edge Spear for shorter dash ranges would make damage easier?
mighty ermine
yeah i would definitely think so
turbid arch
Yeah, Talos is useless for high heated runs. It will get you hit and killed more than anything else.
mighty ermine
sticking to the enemies like glue and applying it more consistently
turbid arch
Problem with that kind of run is that you would have no flinching tools
so armored enemies will clubber you while you dash around them. It hits rather easily
cunning urchin
Whoever said to try Tempest Flourish on Talos . . . for low heat runs it's probably entertaining.
turbid arch
*it happens
mighty ermine
the yank and yeet is more for show than for effectiveness, for sure
it was just underwhelming when i tried it too
turbid arch
GET OVER HERE!
The fists in general are fairly underwhelming to me in general tbh.
I don't know, weapon never clicked for me.
mighty ermine
i'd replace demeter (unless you mean aspect) with zeus and add athena for survivability utility, but then yes
mighty ermine
it just doesn't ramp up quite as quickly as the other options in terms of damage, i'd say. killing freeze is still solid though. ba dum tss
turbid arch
Killing Freeze with Malphon is weird because you can't apply it easily to all enemies in a room constantly.
With the rail or the shield, it is rather simple.
Malphon is so short ranged and mostly single target oriented
mighty ermine
and since killing freeze can't be upgraded with poms, it's just not too amazing if you happen to get a common, considering epic is double the damage
turbid needle
And before you ask why I didn't go harder on Artemis, I got her super late in that run LOL
mighty ermine
but epic killing freeze is very welcome if i get it
turbid needle
That run had no business winning with a start super slow
naive tusk
Are y'all still talking about Demeter? 
cunning urchin
My first boon is always Divine Dash or if I can't get that Divine Strike on my 33-heat attempts.
naive tusk
Oooh, francais! C'est magnifique!
turbid needle
eh
Switched to English at some point, but I did play in french back then
AKA not that long ago but whatever
cunning urchin
Hammers for me are Explosive Upper > Breaching Cross > everything else.
mighty ermine
"gel mortel" is a fantastic localization btw
turbid needle
Oh absolutely
native ether
Hammers for me are Rolling Knuckle and Long Knuckle and that's it
all day every day
(well I will use others but those 2 are my favorites)
mighty ermine
my 36 run had long knuckle mostly because the first hammer also offered me either the kick or: quake cutter 
raw violet
breaching cross is practically necessary on high heat
mighty ermine
quake cutter is just a worse explosive upper ok
i wouldn't say that
it's good, for sure
native ether
"hello there my enemy, welcome to my punching spree, this is where I lay waste and you go home bleeding"
- Zagreus with Long and Rolling Knuckle
mighty ermine
but explosive upper can melt armor similarly with demeter aspect
turbid needle
Insert JoJo meme
native ether
combine with Zeus Attack and you can self insert a jojo or rwby joke about punching
mighty ermine
you don't always get them both haha
turbid needle
Just get Billowing Strength and you are full meme
native ether
wheres my boon that powers me up after I take lots and lots of damage
raw violet
yeah, i'm happy with one or the other
native ether
and lights my hair on fire and makes my eyes red oh wait zag's hair is kinda already on fire and his eye is red
slim surge
is that a jojo reference?
cunning urchin
Breaching Cross deletes armor. Explosive Upper on Demeter Aspect deletes the enemies along with it.
Except for Bruiser Snakestones.
turbid needle
Breaching Cross is more or less 250 extra damage per dash attack on armor
It's great
Explosive Upper is real strong, Long knuckle is pretty good too.
Everything else seems so far below them in terms of strength
mighty ermine
i'm glad that demeter aspect's burst potential is accentuated by zag's yell getting that echo effect
feels so good every time to delete enemies like that
cunning urchin
Bruiser Snakestones have regenerating armor and HP that regenerates faster than your DPS. I'm very sure that's true.
turbid needle
Regenerating what
cunning urchin
They have a second bar of armor when you've deleted the first.
native ether
I don't think anything in this game actually regenerates 
turbid needle
lmao
raw violet
saviors regenerate, technically
native ether
exalted are cheats and dont count
mighty ermine
flashbacks to high heat bow without any hammers versus a room full of bruiser/savior numbskulls
turbid needle
... don't give me flashbacks as well LOL
wintry plume
guys i'm going insane what do i do when asterius charges? I don't know how to stop him and trying to make him hit the walls doesn't work he always turns around and hits me
raw violet
can also hug a pillar and dash through it to the other side
hardy epoch
You have to make him run into something so he stops
turbid needle
You can also side-step him while a wall's behind you
tough grotto
I just forget that you can dash through objects
cunning urchin
You can deflect his run, too.
That's what I do every Malphon run. 
I stop a charging Minotaur with a punch.
turbid needle
"No"
cunning urchin
And he gets hurt.
turbid needle
That just looks hilarious
cunning urchin
It does lol.
I often don't even notice he started charging. He just gets deflected immediately.
hardy epoch
How did he take damage he has the impervious shield around him when he charges?
turbid needle
Pretty sure Asterius doesn't become Impervious while charging at you
cunning urchin
He only becomes impervious once at 50%.
turbid needle
If he was charging before he got hit to 50 % he stops I'm pretty sure
wintry plume
NO
ok i'll try
also now i can see the aspects and i have 6 titan blood, do i invest in zagreus's aspects or do i unlock the middle aspects?
slim surge
chiron's aspect on the bow is pretty op imo
expecially if you go for an artemis build
but i'm still enjoying my life at low heat
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspects all cost 5 Titan Blood to max out. The others cost 15~16.
raw violet
another question is what do you want to do?
do you want easy runs for more titan blood?
or do you prefer a specific aspect and would rather just play that?
or do you want to experiment with everything?
cunning urchin
If you stay in the courtyard, you can upgrade any weapon, try it on Skelly, and if you don't like it, open the menu and quit.
When you reload, you'll be back to how things were when you entered the courtyard.
So you'll have your Titan Blood back.
Hera Aspect is one that at Lv.1 is exactly the same as Lv.5 if you use Stygian Soul. So that one is a good option to invest once in if you like the bow.
raw violet
Hera also functions exactly the same with infernal soul if you use non-lodging casts
cunning urchin
Yeah.
paper mountain
Does Fiery Presence trigger if you hit an enemy after breaking their Damage Control?
Or does it break on the Damage Control
paper mountain
Ah got another question. Does rerolling a non-wreath door (Pom, Obol, Darkness) give you a chance to roll into a wreath door? (Hammers, Boons)
I've been trying to pay attention to this as I play but I can't really tell
cunning urchin
There's a pin for that.
cunning urchin
Yep.
paper mountain
Thank you
raw violet
yeah, short anwer is gold leaf can, blue leaf no
cunning urchin
But.
raw violet
they both have wreaths
cunning urchin
My answer was shorter.
paper mountain
lol
Hm, can a gold wreath roll into the double boon doors? And can skull roll into non-skull/vice versa?
Sorry for the barrage of questions
cunning urchin
You can roll into trials.
paper mountain
like if you see a skull door, does it only roll into other skull doors? and does that include trials?
dry ember
Difficult encounter might change
wintry plume
someone didn't understand what i meant, i wanted ask which is better doing first: max 1 all Zagreus aspects or unlock Nemesis, Achilles, Chaos, Chiron, Eris and Talos
raw violet
miniboss doors with gods will always roll into another god
wintry plume
Or something else, idk
raw violet
what is better depends on what you want to do
cunning urchin
There's no "better" without specifying your objective.
shrewd brook
eh, I would max one aspect per weapon that I enjoy the most and use those to get enough blood for the rest
raw violet
most people probably want to have the most successful and easy complete runs
wintry plume
oh i don't have one,,
i'll just decide i guess, it's just that there are so much options hhh
cunning urchin
I saw DeGrand reroll into a trial in his last video, fairly early on, too. I don't remember from what he rolled into it, though.
raw violet
nice, i wasn't sure, it must be very rare
tough grotto
Probably, since you get 2 boons in one room
raw violet
general advice for titan blood is get enough to unlock and level up chaos aspect to at least lvl 3 so you can farm more bloods while learning the game
but not everyone enjoys shield and not everyone cares to farm blood that way
cunning urchin
If it was me, I'd just spend 5 Titan Blood on Zag Aspect of Malphon lol.
tough grotto
Wait really? I always have more success with cast builds
raw violet
being able to nullify damage while dishing it out is a big boon
cunning urchin
Chaos Aspect is usually considered the strongest weapon in the game.
tough grotto
Do you get ares special or something like it?
raw violet
variety of choices
tough grotto
I'm so confused how is it that OP
raw violet
that would've been my alternative suggestion
hera bow and poseidon sword don't require much investment and function well for casting
which would be the second easiest way to get clears
probably
cunning urchin
Block negates all damage.
raw violet
i dunno how to explain that blocking damage while doing damage is strong
tough grotto
Doesn't that go for all shields though
dry ember
Shield is boring tbh... And Chaos Shield isn't worth it unless you can upgrade to level 3 at least
raw violet
i guess i could elaborate that with a decent set up, you're clearing rooms without having to aim or really think about where enemies are
dry ember
Very few things go through shield
cunning urchin
And Chaos Aspect on max level can clear any chamber in seconds, and you don't even need to aim it.
dry ember
So if you charge bull rush in a corner
raw violet
chaos is specific in that you throw up to 5 shields around you
dry ember
You are nearly invulnerable
neon fiber
haha special goes BRRR
raw violet
that cover an entire room
which is why people say it needs heavy investment to be useful
more useful, i should say
tough grotto
I suppose, but how would your damage get that high? I never get high damage with shield
sterile portal
Sounds like that's what I've been doing wrong with Chaos Shield then
cunning urchin
Sometimes the room is dead before you catch your shield.
neon fiber
you might want aphrodite or artemis special on chaos shield for the big numbers
or posi for the slamming action
raw violet
zeus/dio/ares/athena/demeter are all preferred
dry ember
I suppose, but how would your damage get that high? I never get high damage with shield
Do you have it fully upgraded?
tough grotto
Nope
dry ember
Low level shield is extremely meh. Fully upgraded shield is one of the strongest option in the game.
shrewd brook
if I didn't cheat engine the blood (gonna have to start a legit save at some point, maybe when 1.0 launches), I'd pick, from left to right, Poseidon>Achilles>Chaos>Chiron>Talos aspects. Rail aspects are all so good so it's a tough choice. Rail in general is an amazing weapon
dry ember
For Chaos that it
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain is unrivaled for DPS on it if you can get Merciful End. But there are plenty of good options.
dry ember
Is Curse of Pain attack or spec?
cunning urchin
Special.
sterile portal
spec i believe
tough grotto
Y'all using names I haven't memorized smh
dry ember
I think Krasher and I prefer that on attack
raw violet
i've tried it and i find it worse than ares attack and athena special
dry ember
Curse of Pain is the Ares Special boon
tough grotto
Wouldn't Ares special be good bc of doom?
dry ember
Yes
raw violet
i think it's just cause triggering merciful end is just a lot easier when it's with every special throw
i'm not sure
cunning urchin
Curse of Agony is A for Attack. Easy to remember.
raw violet
all i know is my hades fight was much faster with it on attack
why remember when i can just say ares attack?
shrewd brook
I find most non-Artemis/Aphro/Athena gods to be very build dependent
tough grotto
fr
dry ember
But I find putting it on attack is just as good and special can use another boon buff.
tough grotto
Is Aphro really that good? I barely use her
dry ember
Haha depends on what weapon
shrewd brook
she's a statstick pretty much, biggest damage boosts so you can splash her into any build
dry ember
Aphro on Zag Bow, Excalibur, Hestia Rail is great
neon fiber
ares is probably good for chaos special if you have the one passive that lets you stack doom
otherwise you don't perform that well vs bosses
shrewd brook
can you get Dread Flight with Chaos aspect?
dry ember
Yes
tough grotto
Oh I didn't know she had the biggest damage boosts
raw violet
stacking doom might be the most underwhelming ares boon
cunning urchin
30% damage reduction from Weak and best base damage on most slots.
dry ember
You can get Explosive Return too
tough grotto
Dread Flight is the one that allows the shield to bounce 3 more times right
shrewd brook
I'm still sad I can't get that Daedalus boon that gives bow special penetration on Chiron
raw violet
dread flight does not work with the chaos-specific throw
only the normal special throw
cunning urchin
On lower heat, the damage reduction from Weak doesn't matter as much.
shrewd brook
I know it's for balancing but meh
raw violet
just fyi if you're trying to take it
tough grotto
That would make stuff a bit too broken tbh
shrewd brook
but getting so powerful if Lootcifer allows it is so fun
shrewd brook
so how do you think Spread Fire is getting nerfed?
tough grotto
Sadly I don't get that much in this game
tough grotto
Why
shrewd brook
idk, I watched Haelian's all weapon speedrun attempts and it looked absolutely nutty
like holy crap
tough grotto
I mean 45+ heat is insane
dry ember
Speedrun is different
tough grotto
Almost nobody gets that far
raw violet
obviously the only way to balance the game
dry ember
Don't take a speedrun for balancing the game
raw violet
is to balance around 50 heat
raw violet
you can say that, but my 32 spreadfire run was pretty walk-in-the-park ish
shrewd brook
as someone who is struggling at 20 heat with 56% God Mode on most weapons... yes please, balance around 50 heat
cunning urchin
You meant to say balance around Malphon.
dry ember
Ok here is why SF probably won't get nerfed, not joking.
raw violet
nah, you just need to git gud
tough grotto
As someone who is still getting 0 heat on all weapons
Please balance around 50 heat
dry ember
- You need to spam dash strike with SF. Most casual players don't
tough grotto
I sure do
cunning urchin
Why should I git gud when I can git Divine Dash?
tough grotto
Makes the gun shoot faster anyway
raw violet
lol
shrewd brook
Divine Dash is Athena's?
dry ember
- By itself it is stronger than other options, but it is not the end all be all like people here like to say
shrewd brook
Cause that one is the best defensive boon in the game
dry ember
- On Hestia Rail there is currently a bit of an anti synergy
- SF without Arte or Aphro is ???
tough grotto
There should be a way to reset Titan Blood usage tbh
raw violet
i do think fox has a certain point in that some things need to be focused on new players
tough grotto
Wasted too much on Non-Chaos Shield stuff
raw violet
i'd be curious to know how many people even finish a single run
and then how many people keep playing after a single run
tough grotto
Good question
raw violet
from the global population
shrewd brook
SGG should release some metrics when 1.0 drops
tough grotto
Like PSN trophies?
dry ember
Yeah Samsung Galaxy should fix their phones too
raw violet
i do understand that it's a roguelite and functions very differently
tough grotto
Steam achievements are a way to gauge that
shrewd brook
fixed
dry ember
Yup
tough grotto
"10% of players have that" and stuff
raw violet
but as with many other games, a substantial population just don't play a game through
tough grotto
Yep
Pretty insane when I check out the trophies in a game and only about 50% or so get the "You beat the final boss!' trophy
cunning urchin
Pick Owl Pendant + Persuasion > reroll until she offers Divine Dash or Divine Strike > ??? > don't run into Bruiser Snakestones > Hades fight.
Works every time with Malphon on any heat.
cunning urchin
I'm happy for you.
raw violet
but also, I can understand how balancing around the top 1% can be beneficial to the community as a whole
tough grotto
Would it though
dry ember
There is a balance
shrewd brook
it's those laser jade things in Styx. But with Bruiser modifier from Pact
raw violet
yes
tough grotto
The top 1% are the legends who are skilled enough to go back to heat 0 and beat it with like no boons
Oh god I hate those laser things
shrewd brook
balancing around 1% may also lead to a dead game
cunning urchin
Bruiser Snakestones are the worst enemy in the game.
tough grotto
It could go both ways
shrewd brook
not Hades per se cause it's single player
tough grotto
The kind of people who do SL1 ds3 runs or Broken SS runs
What does the bruiser effect do
shrewd brook
but a primarily online games live or die on their casual gamers
probably gives all enemies a passive hitbox
cunning urchin
Extra armor.
shrewd brook
oh
cunning urchin
In the case of Snakestones, it gives them like a billion HP worth of armor.
shrewd brook
just get a Hammer boon for more armor damage 4Head
dry ember
I can go on a rant about how bad of a design choice Bruiser is.
tough grotto
Please do
dry ember
Ok. So every Benefit Package perk has a counter.
You can dodge, keep distance, find the true clone, etc, etc.
There is no counter to a beefy enemy
Period.
You automatically "get hit" by their large HP
There is no way to negate that
Except for having a good build
shrewd brook
do those armored Satyrs in Styx miniboss rooms also get BP buffs?
dry ember
Yes
tough grotto
Yeah I hate damage sponges
shrewd brook
oof, that's rough
dry ember
Beefy enemies are unfun
And unfair
Especially given how overtuned it is rn, at least in my opinion
cunning urchin
Every other Bruiser enemy, I can delete their armor in one Dash-Upper with Demeter Aspect, Heartbreak Flourish, and Explosive Upper. Bruiser Snakestones take like 3 or 4 of them before you get through their armor.
- all your normal attacks inbetween.
dry ember
Bruiser Archers are p bad too
mighty ermine
currently berating myself for not just biting the bullet with TD2 here because every biome went smoothly enough for it to have gone fine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/717852234905550973/20200603162654_1.jpg
dry ember
They are beefy and they run away from you
cunning urchin
Congrats!
sterile portal
Nice!
mighty ermine
early twin shot was great
wish i could've gotten power shot boost as well but
frost flourish for priv status was nice anyways
sterile portal
If you don't mind me asking, how did you pass tight deadline using bow?
mighty ermine
dash-strike power shots almost exclusively
and even then you definitely want a good hammer to compliment that
like twin shot, triple shot, the power shot boost that i constantly forget the name of
dry ember
If you don't mind me asking, how did you pass tight deadline using bow?
You usually want one or some combination of Twin Shot, Triple Shot, Chain Shot
sterile portal
Huh, weird
raw violet
TD is definitely something you can practice and after awhile you won't even notice it
dry ember
Without those, you can still beat deadline but you need to utilize 110% brain power to line up your shots
Still very doable
shrewd brook
sniper something... shot I think
sterile portal
I'm so used to using Chiron bow and spamming Special
shrewd brook
Poseidon on Chiron bow is just full on lulz :kekw:
dry ember
Yeah I think this applies more to Zag bow
shrewd brook
although I think you don't do any wall slam damage to the Douche King
dry ember
Which is the most reliable one per my own testing
mighty ermine
yeah, i mostly use zag bow for speed and high heat because it effortlessly compliments what i'm doing the most
dry ember
That's why you want Twin Triple or Chain
Deadly Strike works too, no matter the rarity
mighty ermine
and even 10% is a surprisingly decent amount all things considered, with how much you're dash-striking things
just a nice passive bonus that you feel sometimes
shrewd brook
Chain + Triple + Poseidon attack is also funny. Especially in Styx. Just shoot at the wall and the room auto clears
dry ember
Yeah Poseidon bow is fun
raw violet
i dunno if other people would agree but I find after playing zag bow, chiron bow feels incredibly slow
dry ember
Yup agreed Chiron is slow
mighty ermine
heavy setup for single target
dry ember
Hera is a different beast
muted hawk
Second Hades clear! And since we're talking the bow, let me tell you this: Hera's Bow + Ares' Cast (bladestorm) + 3 casts is DEADLY
dry ember
When people say bow I default to Zag bow
shrewd brook
Since I suck with Power Shot timing in tense situations (aka Elysium and further) I prefer Chiron
dry ember
Dash Strike and Dash Strike only
shrewd brook
ends up being similar speed for me
muted hawk
Clear most of the satyr rooms in under 2 seconds with this thing
Second Hades clear! And since we're talking the bow, let me tell you this: Hera's Bow + Ares' Cast (bladestorm) + 3 casts is DEADLY
And killed Hades without dying ONCE
mighty ermine
power shot timing is kind of rhythm game esque after a certain point; you stop thinking about it and you get them the vast majority of the time anyway
sterile portal
I just found Chiron bow to allow me to change the bow gameplay the most. From low damage aoe dot to high damage single target violence.
shrewd brook
Unbind special on half the spear aspects as well lol
raw violet
don't get me wrong, chiron is a lot of fun when you get it set up
shrewd brook
Yeah, Chiron bow seems to have highest build diversity of all the bows. Slap any gods' special and you'll do fine
Whereas something like Dio wouldn't really work well on Zag aspect
or Zeus
then again, I guess you can shotgun with Zeus on any bow aspect
but then you're better off playing Malphon
dry ember
Yeah, if you are interested in Zag Bow clear, there is a vid of a 46 heat clear that basically epitomizes it.
shrewd brook
Haelian's recent vid?
sterile portal
Didn't Haelian hit 48 with it just recently?
dry ember
But yeah Haelian is good too for the 47 one
raw violet
ooh, another high heat run to add to the mix
shrewd brook
did Daddy DeGrande do 50?
shrewd brook
I guess I might be misremembering
raw violet
unless he did a new one recently
dry ember
Do you have a playlist of high heat clears Krasher
raw violet
no, I thought about making one just to keep track
but it would just be an excel sheet
since different platforms
dry ember
Fair
raw violet
ugh, now that I've written it, I'm gonna have to go through with it
should be easy enough
shrewd brook
just use google docs so you can share it later
shrewd brook
sounds like a boring meeting
dry ember
Dw I talked about the applet too probably not gonna finish it.
shrewd brook
you should blast some Out of Tartarus
dry ember
I'm 50% done but that was so much work T.T
naive tusk
Aw doggo 
dry ember
Oh no
naive tusk
You still deserve some pats :3
dry ember
:3 now I have to finish it
shrewd brook
what's the hera bow bug in the courtyard? Just saw it mentioned in Feedback
dry ember
I'm as confused as you are.
main osprey
Same lol
dry ember
I'm not sure to downvote or upvote
main osprey
@vivid pagoda what's the bug?
dry ember
You can do both lol
proven robin
You can, if you're locked on to Skelly.
vivid pagoda
so
grab the mirror talent that gives you multiple casts
grab heras bow
load all your crystals
switch to a different weapon
switch back to heras bow
you'll get a fresh 3 crystals to load, but the ones you already loaded are still there
repeat 10 times
hit skelly for 30x damage
vivid pagoda
its just silly, and only possible in that room because you need to switch weapons
hardy epoch
Do the crystals all drop too once you beat Skelly
vivid pagoda
yeah, but the pickups cap at 3
hardy epoch
That's fine I just wanted Skelly to be a crystal fountain
vivid pagoda
that you can do lol
shrewd brook
so they cap at 3 but after loading those 3 you get another 3?
or does Skelly only drop 3?
vivid pagoda
vivid pagoda
i just found it from that post a short while ago, i deserve no credit
like a comment says, the stacks do reset when you start the run
so there's no way to carry the charges out of the room
and ofc no way to switch weapons around during the run
raw violet
I threw together a resource of high heat runs that have video. If you are included and wish to be removed, please let me know: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MYCL3AlvkXOqZUpBrqpv3utLMDayTnpF7wK9IGIFdN0/edit?usp=sharing
I limited it to the highest heat per player with same weapon. I included lower heats (less than 45) with unique weapons.
- keeping track of highest heat overall and per weapon type
If anyone has any to add, I'm happy to hear
dry ember
Thanks mate
hardy epoch
Thank you for creating this
sand cape
so, zeus bolt effects dont proc more than once in the same target? like the bow fan attack hitting more than once?
weak moat
can we pin this document?
raw violet
@dry ember thank you for the resqtoaster rec. I knew there was a malphon run out there somewhere, didn't know where to find
dry ember
Yeah. I'll let you know if I happen to come by a run that wasn't listed.
covert grove
@raw violet ❤️ Great work my friend
dry ember
Is it really him?
worn berry
The Zeus bolt does proc more than once on a target. It works well with the fists since it’s a rapid proc.
edgy sparrow
Demeter with the one boon that causes chill to explode at 10 stacks would be pretty fun too
Tho I find it annoying it clears the stacks
mighty ermine
what you're describing is zeus chain-lighting, leovius. it doesn't work exactly the same as the lightning bolts, which is what chincer was alluding to with the bow special
chain-lightning has no internal cooldown, but bolts do
Has internal cooldown of .2 per target. (Bolt only triggers, at most, 5 times per second per enemy)
from the wiki
essentially, chain-lightning is tied to lightning strike and electric shot (attack and cast), while lightning bolts are tied to thunder flourish, thunder dash, heaven's vengeance and zeus' aid (special, dash, revenge, and call) (and sea storm, scintillating feast, and lightning rod duo effects)
there are unique T2 boons that affect one or the other category, but Jolted applies to both if you get it
sudden dagger
Did I miss a hint from Sisyphus sometime regarding how to deepen his relationship?
All I can remember is him getting surprised that I was tight with Meg, and saying someday he hopes to see her that way
hardy epoch
I think you're supposed to be able to talk to Bouldy at one point?
sudden dagger
He did mention that I could talk to bouldy any time I wanted.
Thanks, if I can't figure out out I'll ask for more hints.
long crater
are any of the weapon boons tied to specific aspects/not available to specific aspects? there're a few that i haven't ever gotten and i'm wondering if it is all just rng or if my aspect choices are impacting it
like pulverizing blow on shield and chain skewer on spear
i've tried all the aspects but i typically like chaos shield and guan yu spear so i use those far more than the other aspects
mighty ermine
yeah, some hammer choices are not available to certain aspects e.g. can't get flurry jab on aspect of hades or guan yu, because it would prevent you from using the spin attack which is used on both for specific purposes (damage buff, healing and special spin toss properties respectively)
long crater
oh interesting, guess it's time for me to play more with the other aspects then
thanks!
mighty ermine
np!
sand cape
is there any escape history or log to be review on previous attends or victories?
turbid needle
You have the Administration Chamber yet?
sand cape
hmm not im afraid no
turbid needle
You'll know you have access to it when you get it, there's a record in there once you have access.
sand cape
ah i see
i just won for the first time using the duo of demeter and poseidon but didnt save the end screen
tepid trail
yo how do you get the sisyphus companion? i maxed out the hearts but there's one final heart with the lock symbol
what do i do
magic dagger
more runs
and make sure you talk to him as often as possible
if you just keep doing all of the stuff that you're doing, you'll get a quest regarding his situation
sand cape
i like his companion better than the others i think, still dont have any but for what i seen less damage more spammable
tepid trail
yo has anyone used the exagryph shotgun upgrade from hammer? it shreds opponents
magic dagger
everyone who hasn't just started has used the shotgun upgrade
basically anything that can be done, has been
sand cape
i dont like the shotgun upgrade as much as the triple shot infinity bullets one
magic dagger
shotgun, get in close, dash a lot
very high dps, particularly with arti/aphro attack
tepid trail
yep i got the arti attackand +2 dash from hermes
magic dagger
infinity bullets is basically just a downgrade - even though you never have to reload, you spend a lot of time not firing
sand cape
i just reposition a lot, lots of shot and dash shot and dash
i wish the final aspect of the rail gun was just one bullet
sand cape
yeah but would be cool if it was just one bullet in the chamber and no need to manually reload
would run smooth with shooting and dashing
but i guess thats just rocket launcher special upgrade
magic dagger
ah, but then it would take longer to kill the thug with 10hp after the first shot
and dash-striking with normal shots can be useful, in a very few situations
sand cape
so it would be a sniper kind of weapon, one bullet one kill or you are in trouble
i see it working better in some situations and having problems in others
mighty ermine
whew, my first 40 with GY! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/717963989962981418/20200603235118_1.jpg
hardy haven
Nicely done! I'm still just a few victories in and on low heat. I'll get there eventually!
mighty ermine
thank you! and for sure, hades really does allow for a ton of room to improve as a player
mighty ermine
thanks!
dry ember
deadly flourish and charged skewer
mighty ermine
athena blessed me with a DD in my last styx chamber
dry ember
well solid effort still
mighty ermine
yeah i absolutely clung to the strat from the start with arrowhead keepsake
but at least it worked
dry ember
How did you do on time?
raw violet
might as well, it's nice and reliable
dry ember
With DC on
mighty ermine
with dc i typically just would get rid of it with a single dash-strike and follow with skewers
though i did get a couple rooms with slow aura flame kittens
raw violet
classic
mighty ermine
and it really didn't work for them needeless to say
i think i cleared theseus and asterius with like
9 seconds left
dry ember
Little did you know you doomed yourself
mighty ermine
or something
dry ember
Now you have to clear everything at 40
sterile portal
So quick question
raw violet
at least 40 is....reasonable?
mighty ermine
yeah, at least i'm not forced into deep approval process
dry ember
Double dodge
mighty ermine
double dodge for higher heat, ruthless can still work on lower heat though
raw violet
player's choice
raw violet
i personally would do what these guys are saying
dry ember
I mean you don't need ruthless to clear low heat either
Might as well take the extra safety
mighty ermine
hey, that damage and dodge boost is kinda sweet though
dry ember
Ok at low heat you are not speedrunning
raw violet
yeah, i think ruthless is good, it just has a much lower margin of error
dry ember
How so?
sterile portal
Well I'm either stuck in the animation for attacking with bow, or just spent my dodge and can't dodge through stuff
raw violet
and bow benefits so much more from positioning
sterile portal
Is it possible to dash attack multiple times in a row on bow?
mighty ermine
yeah, your dashes are both for maneuvering around enemies as well as picking which times are good for the power shot from there
yeah you can double dash just fine with bow
sterile portal
Huh, I can't manage to get multiple dash attacks in a row on bow
sterile portal
this playstyle is so different from what i'm used to
mighty ermine
yeah you do one dash-strike with bow and then your dashes reset
but you can do it on the second dash, for example
raw violet
it's worth practicing with skelly just dashing around
sterile portal
Ah, so that's another reason to pick double dodge for dash spam
mighty ermine
exactly
sterile portal
Alright well, time to relearn bow from the ground up! High heat or bust!
dry ember
Now that's the spirit
sterile portal
Last question: other than Aphro, what should i be looking for on attack?
young gorge
is high heat rly the way to relearn bow from the grown up 👀
raw violet
more punishment = less mistakes over time
dry ember
nah more to the teenagers
sterile portal
I should probably not be jumping heat levels with to relearn a weapon, but what's the fun in that?
raw violet
don't see why not
mighty ermine
this is such a fortunate pat encounter https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/717972466978521169/20200604002555_1.jpg
i'm sure i'll still botch it at the champs or in styx but still, blessed
dry ember
Praise be
mighty ermine
ideally i suppose lol, i just started with arrowhead and have been rolling with what everyone gives me pretty much
oh wait you meant aspect oops
i'm doing nemesis right now
dash n special spam
raw violet
ah, that would've been my second guess
actually, now that i'm looking closely, it's the exact same set up I had for my last bow run
mighty ermine
these triple A goddesses are just too good
dry ember
Wait which weapon is this?
mighty ermine
nemesis sword
mighty ermine
lost all DDs to the champs after getting stuck in front of the chariot charge so theseus' rapid fire killed my acorn immediately
don't have high hopes for styx lol
raw violet
i, too, ignore the chariot way more than I have any right to
mighty ermine
yeah it was definitely like, ok time to attack asterius! also time to lose my peripheral vision and not see theseus barreling down the middle at me i guess
sterile portal
so i'm realising now that maybe picking up flurry shot wasn't the best idea
at the same time, it was that or charged volley on zag bow
mighty ermine
i personally might've taken charged volley anyway just so i would still be able to power shot
but i know some people prefer flurry shot too
sterile portal
Yeah I was trying to play a power shot and dash spam sort of thing but I thought charged volley would be literally never used
Well, live and learn
proven robin
Flurry Shot isn't bad on Chiron.
In that case you just wanna use the attack to mark them for the special.
sterile portal
Oh no I'm using Zag bow
I love Chiron but on a dash spam run
I should have realized otherwise
proven robin
AHhh.
cunning urchin
Flurry Shot is pretty good.
cunning urchin
With Flurry Shot, you can do roughly 1 dash-strike with 30 + 1 shot with 50 base damage for 80 base damage total in the same time it takes you to do one dash power shot for 40.
sterile portal
Wait you can dash strike with flurry shot?
I genuinely was convinced dash strike was just
turned off from the way it looked
cunning urchin
Yes. Regular Flurry Shot is 50 damage, dash-strikes are 30.
They look the same except for the dash.
sterile portal
That's probably why I was confused
by the time I was messing with it the difference was like 100 vs. 110 damage
thought maybe damage was just varying in the flurry shot attack pattern
Thanks for the clarification!
Welp, time to chill with some Good Riddance
Jumping 14 heat was probably... not the most relaxing idea
cunning urchin
Damage doesn't vary in Hades.
sterile portal
I meant more how you do more damage the further in the Sword's attack combo you are
I thought the same logic might be applicable to the Flurry Shot Bow's attack
kindred bolt
that happened to me in my 32 heat run, only reason i won it, it felt so good
woops i was trying to type that under the photo to refill death defiances, i guess i didn't scroll
sterile portal
Lol, patty is the truest god of hades
cunning urchin
Discord can be like that.
sterile portal
Anyone have recommendations on what to dump blood into? I have 11 now
mighty ermine
depends on what you like!
sterile portal
I like bow but I've max everything on bow but hera (just unlocked it cause who cares otherwise)
lol
sterile portal
Hmm, the only two I haven't maxed from those are Nemesis sword and hestia
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect.
mighty ermine
aspect of demeter is one of my personal faves too, yeah
sterile portal
Is it? I've only unlocked base hestia
mighty ermine
yeah, at final upgrade level hestia's empowered shot is 150 base damage
sterile portal
Hmmm, this is unfortunately making it harder to decide
Too many good suggestions
Darn you all and your capable recommendations!
mighty ermine
i'd say pick a weapon that you'd like enough to farm bounties with to get more blood
turbid arch
With 11 Blood, I would say Zagreus Bow and Zagreus Rail, maybe Zagreus fist.
You can max out two of those and have a very competent weapon that will last you for a long time on a budget price.
sterile portal
Zagrues Rail? Really? Any reason in particular?
turbid arch
It is strong and fun and makes reloading less troublesome.
It is also the weapon aspect used for those fancy 4 minute completions.
sterile portal
Good point, I suppose it is used for Spreadfire speedrunning
turbid arch
Even without that, you can engineer strong and fun runs around it.
dry ember
Zag Rail is solid, albeit a bit too vanilla for me
raw violet
zag rail is good and the reload drops your output quite significantly, but it's not super game changing to have an unupgraded version
turbid arch
And the Zagreus Bow has been used for some over 40 heat attempts
sterile portal
I think I'm gonna get Nemesis Sword to lv. 4 (from 1) first, then look into maxing that or Chaos Shield (from 3)
tepid trail
guys which rail aspect is best?
sterile portal
I have Zag bow and fists maxed already luckily
dry ember
All of them
turbid arch
Poseidon is also a good one.
dry ember
You can ask for personal fav
turbid arch
maxing out Poseidon is very good, but you get almost everything that makes it good with just one rank
dry ember
But it's hard for "best"
tepid trail
then what's your fave aspect fox?
raw violet
eris is probably the most flexible
raw violet
hestia is just a poor man's bow
hushed ledge
I'm generally dumping blood into either things I want on a whim or things that scale super hard on level
turbid arch
The only way to judge what is truly "best" would be to look at what has given the best results these days for various tasks.
dry ember
Hey now
turbid arch
At least that was my approach.
dry ember
You are right
raw violet
fite me, fox
dry ember
Hestia plays a lot like bow
turbid arch
Of course, that fails if someone hates playing rail and/or bow in the first place.
dry ember
That's why I like it
hushed ledge
I play spear similar to bow with zag spear lmao
dry ember
GY with Charged Skewer is a rich man bow
sterile portal
I prefer GY Spear for special personally
turbid arch
Y'all talking about Bow substitutes
hushed ledge
GY spear is more expensive and I'm not yet rich lol
dry ember
Every weapons is secretly some sort of bow
tepid trail
guys guys fist special is better than gy special
mighty ermine
sword dash-strike spam? short-range bow.
turbid arch
Charged Shot Shield = Best Bow
dry ember
We are all bow users on this blessed day
sterile portal
All bow users under best girl Arte
turbid arch
The Rising Of The Bow Hero(es)
cunning urchin
cries in Malphon attack range
dry ember
Malphon is a fool's bow
hushed ledge
Malphon actually has fairly decent range
mighty ermine
you're shooting many tiny little arrows
turbid arch
In return, a Bow Hero would always lose
mighty ermine
malphon is definitely a bow
dry ember
Still bow
turbid arch
against Excalibur
sterile portal
Malphon is a mistake as it's not able to be bow. Change my mind.
turbid arch
Excalibur is the bow that makes all bows bow down to it
raw violet
i love malphon but i'd question the claim that even demeter special is better than GY special
turbid arch
Malphon is not a weapon. It's a pair of glove you use to make drawing your bow easier.
dry ember
was about to Google what quation means
raw violet
google my fat fingers
mighty ermine
krasher breaking out ye olde forgotten words
sterile portal
Will do
tepid trail
will do
dry ember
Will do
mighty ermine
will do
turbid arch
Haha. Playing them like puppets.
mighty ermine
will don't
raw violet
please, this is a christian minecraft server
dry ember
Will don't
raw violet
no googling
dry ember
I thought this is a pagan server?
turbid arch
No. No pagan server. They played you like a damn fiddle.
raw violet
talos is bow in reverse
mighty ermine
birl (bow girl)
raw violet
i figured it out
turbid arch
Okay, guys, what if
And I need you to hear me out now
The final Rail Aspect will be a gun that shoots bows that shoot arrows?
sterile portal
Yes, fox is now hearing my preaching from earlier
cunning urchin
leaves the chat
sterile portal
Oh no we're getting into Swordsplosion territory
mighty ermine
wrath of peach
restive solar
Final rail aspect shoots spicy paintballs
mighty ermine
went offline mode to catch you doing illegal things
raw violet
fired for letting this happen for consecutive days
mighty ermine
to pull gameplay back into the gameplay channel: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/717986535231979520/20200604012036_1.jpg
athena saved my behind in styx yet again
hushed ledge
gz
raw violet
see? you didn't need those 3 DDs you lost
mighty ermine
hey now this was a different run
i died to a tiny rat in a mini chamber on that last one
raw violet
oh
cunning urchin
Over 20 minutes smh.
mighty ermine
please forgive me
cunning urchin
raw violet
at least he finished
dry ember
I feel like there is a joke somewhere in there
Imagine having a streak of 1
Smh my head
raw violet
that feeling when you're committed to a farming run and you get the perfect speed run build
cunning urchin
I thought those clear times were good, but now I see you don't play on Hell mode.
Not impressed.
mighty ermine
you're right, what am i even doing without personal liability
sterile portal
Oh god we have to play on hell mode to get any respect around here?
dry ember
Hellmode is actually easy mode
sterile portal
I don't want to restart the entire game that badly
raw violet
but then you have to take CP1 always
dry ember
CP1 is fine
raw violet
and jury1
dry ember
As long as SGG fixes the travesty that is Bruiser
cunning urchin
Can't take credit for your wins if you're not liable for your actions.
dry ember
Again, JS and CP can be done
mighty ermine
zagreus really needs to be more responsible
raw violet
just dodge dash iframe better
dry ember
#buffSpreadFire
sterile portal
Bruiser is the increased health, right?
dry ember
Yup
hushed ledge
end of tart i currently have epic artemis cast, a +39% cast damage chaos boon, epic flurry shot, as pos sword
lmaoo
sterile portal
I got stuck in a room with Bruiser pots on bow
umbral lagoon
Well, I just failed a Scintillating Feast + Ice Wine run on only 16 heat. First time I RNG'd both after 8 tries. I'll go kms now. (Need more than 1 cast.)
sterile portal
and hated it
mighty ermine
dunno why seeing tart used for tartarus made me laugh out loud
never seen that and it's good
raw violet
bruiser is specifically extra armor, which is significantly worse
dry ember
Bruiser is the worst thing that happened since I ate a burrito and sneezed.
mighty ermine
no i like tart it's perfect
sterile portal
delicious tart
mighty ermine
the first biome: tart
dry ember
Teacher Assistant?
raw violet
i, too, start my runs in TA
sterile portal
I actually start my runs in Styx
mighty ermine
maybe TD kind of is TA mode
sterile portal
Gotta get that tiny vermin in
raw violet
teachers assisted?
dry ember
That's my guess
sterile portal
tartarus?
dry ember
Tart is Tartarus
hushed ledge
i'm critting for 512 on casts
dry ember
WHAT IS TA
sterile portal
Yikes, don't mess it up
dry ember
You are tearing me apart Lisa 6000j
sterile portal
We just had Space bow out
hushed ledge
TA is TArtarus
raw violet
what is there to play? get artemis cast, flurry cast, hold cast button
mighty ermine
they meant they could use TA as a shortened way to say tartarus fox lol
but tart is superior
hushed ledge
oh
hmm
greater recall seems good
but it's against epic quick recovery. I'm ignoring rare quick reload because pos sword lol
mighty ermine
wait you got greater recall already?
raw violet
i'd go with recall
hushed ledge
yeah
mighty ermine
you're having such an ideal poseidon aspect run
hushed ledge
and i also have rare aphro attack and flurry slash and empty inside for that safety
yeah woah recall is so good
sterile portal
If only Heart Rend was available from Arte cast alone
hushed ledge
i guess the real question now is 3rd chaos boon or eurydice
unkempt pagoda
eurydice
sterile portal
Eurydice
raw violet
how many boons do you have?
dry ember
What is your cast rarity?
sterile portal
start gambling sooner
dry ember
And level and number?