that actually gives me some reason to pick Poseidon more lol
#h1-builds-and-combat
dry ember
naive tusk
Y'all are awesome 
cunning urchin
Only the guys? 
dry ember
Duh
untold vortex
you're awesome too Nyaan 
dry ember
She got Curse of Vengeance
cunning urchin
Whom would I wreak havoc on?
cunning urchin
@untold vortex kind words, but it's all meaningless now.
dry ember
You had like 2 hours of sleep. Yikes. Did Hypnos abandon you?
cunning urchin
My tag team partner has abandoned me, and I am stuck here in Elysium . . .
magic dagger
who sleeps anyways?
just pull a zag: look at your bed, press E, and walk away commenting on how wide awake you are
works for me every time
dry ember
stuck here in Elysium
That's a weird way to spell Asphodel
cunning urchin
Leave me be, strangers. Take these Death Defiances and be on your way. 
dry ember
Aight thanks
magic dagger
Patty!
dry ember
Patty saved my runs today
cunning urchin
Wait. What's the leg one about. 
magic dagger
Have you even SEEN Patty's legs?
they're beautiful
like all the DD's and jerky he gives you
also I've watched Haelian stream too many times
cunning urchin
I can't say I have paid attention to his legs.
magic dagger
look next time you walk through. You (probably) won't be disappointed.
dry ember
He def waxes his legs
magic dagger
they're... shiny
dry ember
What does that suppose to mean?
magic dagger
To me it looks like man legs are being categorically insulted
Patty is living proof that men can have nice legs
earnest ravine
Maybe he just wants to feel like a dolphin
Oh but cutting in with an actual gameplay question rq, is poison damage scaled off of Hard labour or Heightened Security?
Because it can be applied by both, and I never let it tick long enough to find out. It occured to me I had no idea
dry ember
That's a good question
earnest ravine
But it's also caused by ground traps and thr puddles left behind by giant rats.
magic dagger
probably just scaled by whatever the cause is
Will test tomorrows if you don't get a definitive answer by then
earnest ravine
Thanks, because it's something that I can't really test too often in standard gameplay (what with the immediate oh gross get it away reaction)
magic dagger
I enjoy being poisoned. Gives a bit of a rush, similar to that of TD and FO
cunning urchin
I don't know if it's affected at all.
magic dagger
But just in case
To Do:
Poison self for @ Silvaria
dry ember
If you are interested still, I'll test that in the next run. No bamboozle.
earnest ravine
Lysol I appreciate you even if that made me wince
And thanks, FoxHope! It's just something I hadn't ever wondered if it IS affected by damage modifiers or not.
dry ember
No I have my curiosity too
cunning urchin
Curiosity killed the dog.
dry ember
Like the vase with Hades is trap
magic dagger
wanna ping me with the results plz
dry ember
But the damage from skulk is scaled with hard labor
And does proc acorn
Yeah probably in like and hour or so.
I'm watching a show xD
magic dagger
Better than me. I'm currently
💪 napping
cunning urchin
Yes. I can tell you are napping.
cunning urchin
And @dry ember, it means I care zero, zip, nada for how his legs look. 
dry ember
Curiosity killed the dog.
That's rich coming from someone with Mewmew in their name
cunning urchin
I'm rich. What are you gonna do about it?
naive tusk
What is this talk about legs?
cunning urchin
Rich because my heart is filled with Lady Aphrodite's love. 
naive tusk
Yeah, her legs emanate too much love they can't be seen in her art
magic dagger
No, we're talking about Patty's legs
naive tusk
Oooh.... wait, what?
dry ember
Who is best gril, for the record
cunning urchin
They said I should look at Patroclus's legs.
I'm like he's a guy though.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
naive tusk
He was a warrior, his legs must look nice
What does any of this have to do with game strats? 😂
cunning urchin
Well, it all started with me being sad because you abandoned me.
naive tusk
Never~
naive tusk
Edited
earnest ravine
And the best way I can tie this to actual gameplay is people trying to low-key bribe Patroclus to pop up in runs by complimenting him
And hey it probably works for Most NPCs.... right? I haven't just been talking about how cool Athena is for areason or anyhing >.>
naive tusk
If that'd be the case, he'd never show up for me because I rage at him too much for not appearing when I need him while appearing when I don't need him
cunning urchin
I do that, too.
And he also does not appear when I need him.
So . . . maybe it does work like that.
magic dagger
When I need Patty's DDs and I don't get them, I don't mourn for the run
or the DDs
I mourn because I didn't get to see Patty
cunning urchin
You're all weird.
earnest ravine
It's so nice getting a run to that point, seeing him, and being able to take the jerky, though. Thesus just melts and iit's hilarious
magic dagger
Speaking of going off-topic so much, by the way, I've been curious for a while:
how the heck do you make a good rail build
bc mine suck
cunning urchin
@naive tusk please do something about this slander.
earnest ravine
A lot of flat damage on hit effects, OR you go for the classic bread and butter of Artemis special and Aphro attack.
cunning urchin
Why Heartbreak Strike?
cunning urchin
@naive tusk thank you.
earnest ravine
Like, idk, you probably Could have somethnig else there that fits it better, but I've had better success wiith going for that combo personally.
cunning urchin
It sounds like a good combo.
magic dagger
"Also testing poison now
Which weapon should I use?"
@dry ember doesn't matter, whatever gets you to styx with lots of health
naive tusk
Pick Aphrodite's Eternal Rose for Life Affirmation ❤️
magic dagger
Fare thee well, beautiful Hades players
I'm going to actually nap now
cunning urchin
Yes, carrying the Eternal Rose close to my heart is Life Affirmation for me.
magic dagger
E
cunning urchin
fawns
earnest ravine
Enjoy the nap!
cunning urchin
@magic dagger farewell, stranger. Until we meet again.
magic dagger
"Can't Sleep"
-Zag
naive tusk
Gnight, Lysol!
cunning urchin
Why purse? Are you robbing him in his sleep? 
You can't do that. We're a face tag team.
turbid arch
Another day another dawn
naive tusk
Iiiit's Hades the Guessing Game time! Where you get to guess what a purse has anything to do with sleep! 
AhemHypnosAhem
turbid arch
If it's a big purse, you can use it as a pillow.
If it is an even bigger purse, you can use it as a mattress.
If you order food between naps, you do not need to get up to get your money.
cunning urchin
The day has only started and you're already going way off-topic.
Need to stay on-topic, so @naive tusk doesn't get into trouble for not keeping us on-topic. 
naive tusk
Sooo who's like me and picks Cthonic Coin Purse in Tartarus 90% of the time?
cunning urchin
You already know I pick Owl Pendant 90% of the time. 
main osprey
Until recently I only took the Arrowhead || because Artemis refused to make any sense ||
cunning urchin
How else am I supposed to get my crutch strategic dash or attack?
cunning urchin
What's "regular" for you at this point?
turbid arch
Hard to say.
Best way to answer would probably be just working up the bounties until 20 heat has been reached
but I have also done some 32 heat runs like that.
cunning urchin
Deep Pockets or Golden Touch?
naive tusk
Pro-talk here
turbid arch
I always take 100 coins at the start.
cunning urchin
Is somebody here getting paid for playing?
turbid arch
I am a real big and impulsive spender, I never save my Obols for later if something good/interesting is for sale.
cunning urchin
I see I see. I don't really save mine, either. But I still think I get more coins out of Golden Touch over a run, more often than not.
turbid arch
Technicly, the Developers are getting paid for playing.
Well or rather, pay themselves.
dry ember
@earnest ravine @magic dagger so the Poison by the Satyrs scale by Hard Labor, which is 2 per tick per stack
cunning urchin
2 per tic per stack, yes?
dry ember
Poison created by Rats and Traps scales by Heightened Security, which is 4 per tick per stack
yes I was careful in makign sure only one stack is applied
earnest ravine
So it actually is differentiated? Oh man, that's neat!
Thank you for testing that out!
dry ember
yeah np.
turbid arch
I honestly did not know poison in Styx can stack.
dry ember
I could have saved some screenshots
but rn i can't for some reasons
....
just take my words I guess, I checked it twice for each scenario
cunning urchin
I think the big miniboss Satyr applies multiple stacks at once.
turbid arch
I will take you at face value here because it does not change my gameplay of "Not wanting to get poisoned" and "Immediatly going for the Anti-Dote everytime I am poisoned".
dry ember
yeah non boss nobs
armored though
But shouldn't make a difference
I have no BP on anyway
cunning urchin
Frostbitten Horn or Overflowing Cup in Tartarus for an Ice Wine build?
With Excalibur.
turbid arch
I almost never start a run knowing what I will or want to see.
I go through Tartarus, see what I can find, then build me up from there.
cunning urchin
Hmm I see.
turbid arch
If I were to actively go for Iced Wine, I would start with Dionysus in order to get the Cast first asap.
tepid ridge
Probably Dio, he’ll give you more value with the cast early.
turbid arch
That and you do not want to make things awkward by having Demete roffer you her cast.
cunning urchin
I was thinking using the Horn first would make sure that later I get Trippy Shot instead of being offered something else and having to reroll.
Because I could fill some core boons before Asphodel.
cunning urchin
I'm actually gonna try going with Chaos Egg, though. That sounds interesting.
turbid arch
Chaos Egg is amazing if you use Persuacion.
tepid ridge
Ooh say hello to Cool Voice Fetus Cloud for me
turbid arch
Rerolling Wells into Chaos is a good thing. Being able to reroll Chaos for useful stuff is too.
Because you can see Chaos multiple times semi reliable like this, Chaos' Egg is actually the only god keepsake that is worth to keep for more than one floor if you really want to.
sudden dagger
Wow, when it rains it pours. I got all the resources I needed to 1. Open up nyx's gate, 2. Help Dusa renovate the lounge, and 3. Void Orpheus's contact all in the same go.
tepid ridge
Must be nice to get quests to proc instead of dialogue about random bits of lore lmao
sudden dagger
Still haven't beat Hades tho
I keep thinking I'll trigger zag's bed another time somehow
raw violet
i've discovered it's never too early to farm resources
since i'm still missing a lot of darkness and gem upgrades
so don't worry if you can't beat hades, you're still making progress
dry ember
Hey you should get some mirror upgrade done before Nyx quest though. It's more efficient that way I think
raw violet
i think it's too late if he has the gate open
dry ember
@cunning urchin per your feedback, the first time I paid 3 diamonds for it, I had no ideadl what changed
Had to come here and ask
Some runs later, still don't use it lol
That "shortcut" is a waste of money
raw violet
it's the loosest definition of shortcut if i've ever seen one
dry ember
Shhh it saves you one dash
Another ploy from SSG to make people actually try Ruthless Reflex
Smh my head, can't fool me
dry ember
Erm sure
raw violet
puts em in an aquarium?
dry ember
New PB too
lethal tangle
wanted to like a super tank build with it
yeah and new pb it was gas
First run with that aspect
I always play tanks in MMOs so once I saw that I knew I had to try it
dry ember
You did good!
woeful bane
hi guys, i vaguely remember reading about boon/god mechanics where you can only see up to 4 gods per run? is there a rundown text guide on this, or could somebody explain it to me. i.e. is it up to 4 gods per run, but they're only counted IF i pick up a boon, or is it counted if a room generates that offers a boon from a god?
restive solar
there's no limit to the number of gods per run
woeful bane
no? so in one run i could in theory see all the gods?
restive solar
yep
woeful bane
is there a system in place that nudges more of a god to show up the more i have boons from them then?
restive solar
not as far as I'm aware
however, you can use keepsakes to force the next god to be one of your choice
woeful bane
neat, thankies
restive solar
no problem
brisk copper
what about Theseus then? if all the gods can be in a run, that means some of them will help both him and Zag
And that never happened so far afaik
turbid arch
I am sure that you cannot meet all gods up until you meet Theseus.
It was possible to guarantee that you meet all the gods up until Styx, but that is no longer possible since they have introduced Demeter if memory serves me right.
Tartarus can offer up to four individual gods in total, 5 if you include hermes, 6 if you include Chaos
you can then bring one god keepsake to Asphodel, one to Elysium and one to Styx to force three more gods in
Making for a total of 7 (main) olympians.
We have 8 now though. Zeus/Pos Athena/Ares Demeter/Dio Artemis/Aphro
Those pairings are how I remember the gods being in this game.
The brothers, the rivals, the best gods, the cute ones
floral maple
is guan yu even worth upgrading?
opal bay
yeah it is
guan yu at its lowest stage kind of meh getting for
but once its fully upgraded it is a game changer
turbid needle
What in the name of hell is that run
It's about as good as you can make zeus without the duos what the hell, sans the levels
And you somehow got 400 hp as well
turbid arch
There is one Icon I do not recognize.
Second row from the left, second symbol from the top
raw violet
i'm pretty sure that's chaos's DD
turbid arch
I actually do not know how that symbol looks like.
I kinda doubt that it is that because he has 4 total DDs but one of them is the Tooth
raw violet
maybe, i couldn't remember the difference between skelly and chaos's DD symbol
turbid arch
Skellys is almost the last DD to use up (which is bad by the way and should be changed) and has a skull Icon.
Chaos' DD is always to the right and has a purple eye that would kinda remind you of Chaos' Shield.
raw violet
i have no guesses left, now i'm curious
main osprey
Skelly's is probably last because it triggers after SDs, and they're probably set up in the same order
turbid arch
Which is bad. He should be the first DD to use for a hundred reasons that would make it more usable.
It always resurrects you with 100 HP, making it, in a lot of cases, worse than a regular DD lategame but better than a regular early on, which means that it would be a much more attractive choice to use on earlier floors if it were the first DD to be used up instead of the last. This would also not take away any of its current usefulness as a lategame keepsake.
main osprey
I'm not saying you're wrong—I'm just saying it would take a bit of reorganizing in the code. I only just started using DD (once I got enough Darkness to have more than 1) so I'm used to SD
smoky wolf
@turbid arch it's the god mode damage reduction icon :)
turbid arch
Aah. That explains why I did not recognize it.
smoky wolf
Yeah, I used to use God mode when I sucked at this game even more than I do now
And it's always in that slot
surreal hound
when a door has a skull on it, what do the red notches represent next to it ?
mossy breach
check pinned messages , theres a post that explains it
untold vortex
you need to scroll down a bit in the pinned messages
actually, to make things easier for you @surreal hound here you go ^_^
untold vortex
all good it happens, glad you found it
gaunt tundra
didn't realize the boss room had a little star
if that damn little vermin had one, that would be great, so i don't touch that door with a 67m stick
untold vortex
would be a good idea to put that in feedback Sancre ^_^
gaunt tundra
i guess that's a no XD
i wasn't sure really
cause i just noticed about the little star
untold vortex
ahhhh I getcha
gaunt tundra
gonna post it nevertheless
might help save a future run
although i kinda get that if you go into elites, you're really desperate for a boon or you have a run winning build already
untold vortex
it would definitely help those who want to avoid lil vermin like yourself ^_^
gaunt tundra
it's probably a lot
i mean, only found it like 2 times and killed it both, but it wasn't an easy fight, that's for sure
untold vortex
mmhm, I enjoy the fight personally, but agree that it can definitely be challenging
turbid arch
I never
noticed
the red notches.
Remarkable.
Also, the screenshots that Raj posted in #hades-feedback
Disgusting
gaunt tundra
i feel witches are among the most delectable enemies to get benefits package boons
i got a room in asphodell with several witches with the tracking boon
room was often almost fully purple cause of the bullets
i had athene dash and still was taking damage left and right because i couldn't see magma or deflect all endless waves of tracking bullets XD
turbid arch
Witches are even more ridiculous because they do not only get the benefits of Benefits Package
but also gain Homing On top of it.
I am not sure if other enemies get similiar additional otherwise non-mentioned benefits aside from the witch-type enemies.
A lot of enemies gain extra benefits if they have armor on.
Shield Heroes have a charge attack, armored, they also do a spinning move afterwards.
Witches usually only get extra projectiles when they are armored, three of them, the spreaders shoot three waves
and because THAT was not enough, Steve decided that they also needed homing.
Have you ever seen a spreader shooting out 15 bullets out, all of them homing in on you super hard?
Have you ever seen 3-5 spreaders do that at the same time!
My god, my PTSD is kicking in....I need a restaurant
gaunt tundra
yep, exactly what happened to me XD
literally there were so many purple bullets in there going towards me that i couldn't see the magma
or stop dashing, because there wasn't any free space where zag could fit
turbid arch
I actually went to the restaurant.
Mountains of meat and a lot of fruit as dessert.
Feeling better now.
magic dagger
zag aspect sword with double edge, splash dash and drunken flourish is a good idea right?
turbid arch
Depends, what is "Splash dash"?
neon fiber
probably posi dash
turbid arch
I'd be careful with Poseidon Dash on the sword because it can make you knock your enemies out of attacking range
wide plover
mmm, blizzard shot feels pretty nice, even in a build with only 1 stygian cast. I only lost 30 hp in hades fight because I was just throwing cast and sitting behind the shield
bonus cast damage affects shards damage, right?
opal glade
poseidon dash is a bit of a wildcard with melees
also if you have poseidon dash dont recommend get aphro cast... for obvious reasons that i had to learn the hard way XD
knockback'd the very enemies i wanted to shotgun cast lmao
neon fiber
don't need to get in sword range if your dash already acts like a localized nuke
opal glade
das true tho
my dash was a white but my cast was epic level 3 i think with about 240+ damage 😔
it was a little better with razor shoals so i could get privilege status but still a dumb learning curve on my part XD
magic dagger
You don't need to worry about knockback if you apply 3 stacks of dot before your enemies get away
461 health also helps tho
also, you can just chase your enemies if you're spamming dash-strikes anyways
How do you get greater recall?
magic dagger
thanks!
turbid arch
Needs to be said that Bad News feels remarkably rare.
turbid arch
I hardly hunt for Greater Recall in the first place because I do not have Infernal Soul most of the time
but yeah, that one is pretty rare too.
stoic thicket
I feel like an issue with our boy Hermes is that he has a ton of boons but shows up much more rarely than the others.
tepid ridge
I mean, that’s ‘cause he basically functions like a Daedalus hammer so you either get a legendary on the second boon or you have to try to buy it in Styx for a exorbitant amount of obol.
magic dagger
I just took 64 damage from asterius spin because I got stuck trying to dash along the wall👍
wide plover
walls are the enemy
dull dust
anyone have any tips for the dudes in elysium
they're so hard to hit with the spear
so thin
gaunt tundra
improving aim is paramount to improving with spear
and most weapons, tbh
aside from that, it depends on which elysium enemy you mean
all 4 warriors are to be handled a bit different
which one give you the most problems?
dull dust
really, all of them
guess i'm just too used to the incredibly fat enemies in tartarus/asphodel
wide plover
learn their attacks and plan your actions in anticipation of them. Hit shields from behind or with piercing stuff (artemis cast and some hammer upgrades afaik).
gaunt tundra
for swords keep your distance
and wait for them to stop spazzing out around the whole place with dashes
be ready to dash yourself if they throw the ground spike projectile
tepid ridge
The spear’s dash strike is pretty easy to build around and has a much larger aoe, might make it easier to hit ‘em on the fly. Pattern recognition is also really important for Elysium enemies. I would routinely take like 50 damage from the Spear dude poking me x3 before I realized how that attack worked.
dull dust
yeah, guess it's just frustrating when they get stuck in a corner and still attack and their hitbox seems so infinitely small
gotta work on that aim
gaunt tundra
oh, that might be cause of hitboxes
if there is a bit of a wall, between both, your hits won't register
unless you use excalibur, that has wonky hitboxes
tepid ridge
Of course, you can also get the ||Achilles Aspect|| unlocked and do a cast build, eliminating the need for the spear’s attack hitbox almost entirely
dull dust
yeah i'm still very bad and haven't finished elysium yet LOL
tepid ridge
Oh cool! You’ll get it haha. It’s like bosses; wait for the enemy to tire themselves out with an attack or two and try to sneak in some damage. After a while you’ll get used to their movement and how to prod them with the spear and its special.
It’s special attack, not just that the spear itself is special lmao
gaunt tundra
it's excellent for those pesky shielders
and might be great if they decide to add at least 2 more of those
tepid ridge
Also remember that the enemies with yellow armor health bars won’t stagger while they have those and their attack patterns are harder to dodge.
turbid arch
AND THE GAME DID IT AGAIN!
Just doing a 19 Heat run, not thanking anything mean, trying to get Blizzard Shot on my poseidon sword for a good time
And then Bruiser Teleporting Snakestones appear in my very first Styx Room
I was literally screaming "OH MY GOD I CAN FEEL MY PTSD KICKING IN AGAIN!" at my screen.
Literally on the very first run I play after not having touched the game for a week. Now I am not one for esoterics, but I feel like the game is trying to send me a hot message there.,
stoic thicket
Bruiser Snakestones are your life? That the message?
neon fiber
oh wow, aspect of hera and posi cast feels great
stoic thicket
Btw, isn't Blizz shot a bit wasted on the Poseidon sword? The cast doesn't lodge.
Or can you cancel it early with that?
magic dagger
turbid arch
50% extra damage
magic dagger
More damage than I've ever had on the bow
frequent crits of 595 damage, backstabs deal 619
619 when I miss the powershot, that is
dull dust
bad player here again: any tips for || minotaur/theseus||
neon fiber
don't die
alternatively, learn to recognize when asterius is about to charge, either dashes or bullrushes can get through him when he's charging without taking damage
it's mostly a matter of learning to see the windows you can pull that off
mighty ermine
right, you will get used to keeping an eye on them both, and with theseus you just mainly have to consider his predictable spear throw or the spin if you're up close
neon fiber
yeah
theseus is mostly a matter of keeping an eye on the reticle to see when you're about to get harpoon'd
oblique cedar
I just realized yesterday that when u upgrade weapons with titan blood you get to choose ONE form so ive kinda wasted a bunch of titan blood feelsbadman
dull dust
think i might just not be patient enough
neon fiber
also always go for asterius first since theseus in phase one is an annoyance at best
neon fiber
and then focus on theseus when asterius is down
don't wear them down at the same time because things can and will get messy if they enter their last phases together
mighty ermine
yeah, for speed's sake, you might go for theseus with a build that has decent aoe since asterius follows you deliberately while theseus (mostly) tries to keep distance by walking away
but for learning the fight, would definitely recommend asterius first
dull dust
'ppreciate it y'all
neon fiber
np
stoic thicket
Alright, so I got three major weapon aspects left to level up: Nemesis sword, Hades spear and Hestia rail. Any recommendations which are the most fun?
unkempt pagoda
imo nemesis
big numbers = fun, and you're also incorporating both special and attack into your playstyle
stoic thicket
Alright, that sounds like a convincing argument.
Plus Hades spear is kinda... everytime I try to get a spin build going I get one of the two hammer boons, never both.
unkempt pagoda
i don't like spear so i can't say much about hades, and hestia rail is also powerful but imo i just don't like the style it has
stoic thicket
Spear is fine if you're going for an Achilles cast build or Guan Yu as a whole. Basic spear is kinda super meh.
graceful smelt
turbid arch
For Sword, Excalibur and Poseidon are fun to me. They also change the regular gameplay style around a lot.
For Spear, Guan Yu and Achilles are pretty good. Also change around the basic playstyle somewhat fiercly.
The Shield, Chaos Aspect is the best but Zeus is by far the most exciting to play around with.
Bow, I think Hera wins overall here.
Fists, Talos probably offers the biggest shift from regular fist gameplay, but I would not say that this weapon really is outstanding in general.
For the Rail, all aspects are great.
stoic thicket
Personally I haven't really found Zeus shield all that great, played around with it a bit but didn't like it much. What do you put on there?
Hera bow is very good, don't get me wrong, I just think the playstyle is not my thing, really. You have like a big boom every couple seconds and are relegated to plonking away in the meantime. I've personally much preferred Chiron up to this point.
Also Zagreus fists with Merciful end is dope.
cunning urchin
On Zeus Aspect, Drunken Flourish and Lightning Flourish are high DPS options that also apply debuffs for Privileged Status.
stoic thicket
Hummm...
That's actually a good argument, haven't really used my mate Dionysus for much outside either his cast or his call...
smoky wolf
Dionysus is a good alternative to zeus for the rail and fists in terms of stacking hangover quickly
cunning urchin
Hera Aspect is basically a cast build weapon that lets you much better aim certain casts like Trippy Shot or at a distance Slicing Shot.
smoky wolf
I just this moment finished a Hera Ice Wine/Scintillating Feast run. With Lvl3 Epic Trippy Shot, +9% crits from pressure points and Lvl 3 Epic heartbreak strike
melted everything
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike on Malphon has very poor single-target DPS unless you hit and run a lot. It shines on multiple targets, though, if you move on from targets fast and let the Hangover damage to the rest.
very poor single-target DPS unless you hit and run a lot
To clarify, for hit-and-run tactics, it's stronger than (most?) other options. When zerging, it's actually the weakest except for maybe Tempest Strike.
dry ember
How about when terraning or protossing?
cunning urchin
Well, actually I haven't attempted Tempest Strike on Malphon yet. Maybe the knockback doesn't ruin zerging too much—especially on bosses.
Tempest Flourish definitely sucks with Demeter Aspect.
cunning urchin
No what?
unkempt pagoda
from what i saw when i played it, what happens is that the specials all happen first, then the knockback of all specials applies
cunning urchin
That's not been my experience. And it puts them out of range of follow-up attacks, anyway.
Might have poor interactions with some hammer upgrades but not others.
unkempt pagoda
with 5 specials, you're gonna be deleting a good bit of hp anyways
ah, i used explosive upper when i did it
cunning urchin
It's 7 hits for Uppercuts and 6 hits for Dash-Uppers.
turbid needle
Tempest strike on Malphon fists doesn’t actually do much knockback, you can still rush your enemies no problem
Altho your damage will suffer because lol tempest strike damage
cunning urchin
No, that's just the base DPS from Tempest Strike that is poor. It opens up your path to Rupture etc. which give excellent DPS.
silver solstice
I just unlocked Arthur Aspect and noticed there's a new zero-heat bounty for beating the last boss. Is that just another titan blood or something special?
umbral lagoon
i swear ice wine and fully loaded RNG are so bad
wasted all of my fated persuasion and literally no luck
turbid needle
Fully loaded requires exit wound now
umbral lagoon
ugh
turbid needle
Yeah it’s rough
umbral lagoon
what about ice wine?
I had 5 or 6 demeter boons
got the frost special almost immediately
i have legendary/duo proc'd
turbid needle
Ice wine is just Festive Fog + a demeter boon in the main hotbar
umbral lagoon
used 4 or 5 re-rolls persuasion
turbid needle
That one was just unlucky
umbral lagoon
ughhhhh
turbid needle
^
umbral lagoon
it's okay if it's on separate rolls
but it just keeps re-rolling the exact same boons
just really really unlucky
raw violet
that's just the persuasion experience
turbid needle
They patched it out so you get something different, but yeah
umbral lagoon
if it doesn't get buffed then i'm never using it again
turbid needle
Welcome to RNG when the amount of boons is actually kinda low
umbral lagoon
it's not because of the boon amount
raw violet
lol, weren't you the guy that wanted to write an article about how good persuasion is?
umbral lagoon
yeah i'm a persuasion main
but i think it needs to be buffed for how little we have so i put that in feedback
why is that even worth laughing at? persuasion is good in theory but the RNG in the game seems broken
I've already argued all of my points in feedback.
raw violet
because experience teaches that every option has nuances that make things good and things bad pending on situations
turbid needle
RNG will always seem broken, from what I’ve seen accross multiple games and genres
So yeah
umbral lagoon
Statistics also says that we are not being promised on what we are sold on.
There's just no way that a purely RNG boon roll can get the exact same Chaos boons 3 times
raw violet
what statistics?
umbral lagoon
from experience...
umbral lagoon
yeah i can keep track of them from now on
raw violet
some n values?
umbral lagoon
i can do the statistical analysis if you are so cynical
that's not a problem
i'm convinced
that
turbid needle
I will tell you that from MY experience with the Persuation rolls, that it’s actually fine, RNG wise
umbral lagoon
just my opinion anyway
raw violet
i am, mostly cause that would be helpful as feedback and understanding just exactly what FP does
turbid needle
^
raw violet
since lots of mechanic exploration is done with FA
umbral lagoon
would you be willing to help gather data?
raw violet
but almost none on FP
umbral lagoon
i'll share a google sheet on this
raw violet
pends on how often i use FP
umbral lagoon
i think the easiest way to test RNG assuming all re-roll mechanics are equivalent for boons
is Chaos
just write down all the curse/boon combos you get
stoic thicket
Well that was kinda nice, did a low heat darkness farm run and carried almost 2k darkness out of there.
umbral lagoon
if you get repeated ones, then note that down
But in my experience, my re-roll are definitely not uniformly random.
I always get repeated boons, and a lot of times all 3 are repeated with different stats.
I don't fundamentally believe stat re-rolls capture the point of Persuasion.
That's just my opinion.
raw violet
i'm not doubting that
turbid needle
... shouldn’t you just gather the results first THEN analyze it ? I don’t see the point of just gathering the repeats
raw violet
i'm doubting the assertion that it's statistically wrong
because there's no evidence for it
only feelings
turbid needle
^
raw violet
even my own
umbral lagoon
True. I haven't shared any data but I will start collecting it.
I'm just saying from my memory, if I took all that data, it would be statistically meaningful for me.
You're welcome to distrust that.
umbral lagoon
Yup.
turbid needle
Well they did patch in so that you can’t get the exact same result after a reroll, if that counts as RNG manipulation
umbral lagoon
See, I interpreted doubt as in the negative connotation. If you were just skeptical, it would be less about opinion and more objective. That's the only reason why I am arguing my opinion on the other side. Not because I'm being lazy on the data, which I just haven't tabulated.
But now it's clear you are just skeptical.
It's possible.
@turbid needle I think they define that as in the stats.
Like if you don't get the exact same stats.
You can definitely get the exact same boons.
(In some permutation, actually. They switch places...)
turbid needle
Different rarity and all, yeah I implied that
raw violet
exact boons is tricky because boon pools can vary pending on what you've unlocked, taken, etc
umbral lagoon
I would never re-roll for stats. Just compatibility.
turbid needle
First room boon is pretty much 4 boons only so yeah
And I do reroll there for that extra rarity damage
raw violet
rerolling also for something like legendary/duo has to also consider the chances of those appearing
raw violet
which i'm not sure anyone knows what the base appearance of those are
turbid needle
They are lower than before for sure LOL
raw violet
but there are certainly scenarios where you only have 3 available boons for offerring and your 2-3 rerolls hits the "no duo/legendary" every time
umbral lagoon
They just have to correct their algorithm, since it has conditional bias. Perhaps they aren't changing the RNG properly when including newly accessible boons.
It's not clear from the probability-adjusting stats in the mirror how it works either.
raw violet
correct
umbral lagoon
+10% as in everything else loses 10% or relatively speaking
multiplicative or substitutive/additive
it's super confusing
They need to put more thought into that when the game is so heavily dependent on RNG.
It's basically undergraduate mathematics to make it balanced. Someone just has to do it for every new addition to the game.
turbid needle
On one hand they could be more clear on the numbers themselves, on the other hand the RNG so far hasn’t been far off or anything
umbral lagoon
Yeah, and I probably won't use Persuasion if they decide not to buff it in terms of boon-variance. It's just my opinion that RNG-balancing is a necessity.
turbid needle
And RNG is actually harder than simple maths when you need to take into account the user bias, which you don’t need to, but yeah
raw violet
i would not be surprised if the number of times I get what i want from a FP reroll is similar to times I don't
umbral lagoon
User bias is always there though. The point of the game is educating yourself to improve your own bias and improve in the game.
Unless they are constantly fighting that to make the game harder.
raw violet
it's just the number of times where i reroll into the same or nonideal boon offerings are just easier to remember and feel worse
umbral lagoon
I didn't mean observational bias. What I found significant were the times I got the same boons regardless of if at least one of the boons was what I wanted.
Usually I get one of my boons.
magic dagger
It's because I didn't get my good boons until there was about 3 min. left and I was less than halfway through
umbral lagoon
Though it's very confusing when the other two are almost duplicates.
There must be something fishy when that's happened around 15 times (where I get the exact same boons) over an extended period of runs. I've only used Persuasion around 100 times since playing the game.
I'm going to gather some data.
turbid needle
And when you consider the available options, it’s actually fine. Many of the boons are tier 2s, duos, and whatnot. When your hotbar is filled be prepared to see lots of dupes
raw violet
you'd have to gather a lot of data
umbral lagoon
But either way, as it is, I think they should buff it or fix the variance, regardless of what exact distribution this corner case falls into.
raw violet
what boons you have when you pick it up
what boons you are offered
what mirror upgrades you have
umbral lagoon
That's why some help would be nice, or else nobody would believe me anyway.
raw violet
actually, i guess that's it
umbral lagoon
Due to low N
turbid needle
Rarity upgrades
umbral lagoon
Poisson convergence happens after around N = 200 if we just considering a binary case of bad randomness vs good randomness
raw violet
mini boss vs not miniboss
turbid needle
And that’s like 15-20 runs worth of rolls st ‘least
turbid needle
And for Chaos that’s even more
raw violet
i'm sure there's a mod out there that gives unlimited keys
and you can just reroll chaos
raw violet
that's how FA tests were done
turbid needle
Oh
umbral lagoon
Who did the FA tests?
raw violet
i don't remember, googled it on reddit
umbral lagoon
I don't have the modding experience to do this on mass. All I can do is collect my own data.
turbid needle
The time you will take to learn modding will be MUCH shorter than you gathering data over runs for significant results
raw violet
here's the other thing, if it took you this long of using FP to notice it's faults and you thought it was great until then, then maybe it works just fine for 90% of the playerbase who may never play that much
not to say the data isn't good
i think it's great to know mechanics
but the need to change it, might be way lower on the priority list
umbral lagoon
I never thought it was that great. I'm saying that it's exhibiting signs that severely cripple it.
I fundamentally like it a lot.
raw violet
we also know the game has rng manipulation
umbral lagoon
In the end, I care enough to try to show that there's something about the game that can be improved.
raw violet
so somewhere, internally, there's something less than full rng
umbral lagoon
Yeah, of course. We'll never learn the distribution accurately anyway.
cunning urchin
@naive tusk has said something like certain boons are more likely to show up or practically guaranteed to show one of a certain pool. So with Persuasion rerolls, that would likely still take effect. I don't know.
Chaos boons are odd because there's the curse part and the boon part. No idea how it interacts with those. I rarely have bad luck with those, though.
A second reroll is rarely worth it unless you really really want something or the first reroll is just terrible.
turbid needle
Like if it's not your first zone and you have a death, Athena will likely give you death defiances and whatnot
umbral lagoon
Chaos boon re-rolls are the reason I put that up in #hades-feedback
cunning urchin
Also, Persuasion increases in value when you get only 1-2 choices because you can reroll and aren't forced to take something that ruins your build.
umbral lagoon
Practically duplicated after a roll, with maybe 1 curse changing.
cunning urchin
At least 1 will always change.
umbral lagoon
Their stats/rarity change. I can guarantee that I have gotten the 3 exact curse/boon pairs.
naive tusk
The way Chaos' curses and blessings work is still a mystery to me
umbral lagoon
Maybe permuted.
naive tusk
Since I haven't taken a look at the coding in that section lol
neon fiber
the way chaos' curses and blessings work is still a mystery to me
working as intended then
chaos is so eldritch even his spaghetti code is incomprehensible
umbral lagoon
Also, something more recent is I got the same Legendary Chaos boon after a re-roll, which considering the entire pool of combinations, already seems very unlikely.
cunning urchin
If you can't show that you got the exact same 3 boons offered, I won't take your word for it. I've actually reported a bug once thinking that happened, but then I realized one was actually different.
umbral lagoon
Just 1 is already enough to throw a red flag, and 3 seems like the game is just flexing on you,.
Maybe one curse was changed.
naive tusk
I actually have stumbled into Chaos' Legendary twice after using Fated Persuasion
neon fiber
nice
umbral lagoon
Either way, my complaint about the lack of variance is still relevant.
neon fiber
wait does he even have a legendary
umbral lagoon
It's not even close to uniform RNG.
raw violet
i think the other wrinkle to put in it is you also have to be careful about how powerful you make FP
naive tusk
wait does he even have a legendary
@neon fiber Yes, their Defiance boon is the Legendary.
neon fiber
oooh
raw violet
in a game of replayability, you need to have options
neon fiber
no wonder i've never seen the bloody thing then
umbral lagoon
And again, it's just my opinion that it's not balanced.
umbral lagoon
Balanced for variety and effectiveness compared to FA.
neon fiber
does it have requirements as the other leggy boons or is it just rng lmao
cunning urchin
1-2 being the same should happen frequently enough to notice it if you use Persuasion a lot. That's expected.
turbid needle
hs is messed up how does that thing only count for 1 heat
cunning urchin
The pool of possible boons can be pretty small.
turbid needle
Pretty sure you need at 'least 1 chaos boon before it's Defiance boon shows up
neon fiber
well dang
umbral lagoon
It's somewhat overkill to strictly define my sense of balance. IMO, re-roll dynamics should be more transparent to inform us whether we should take FA or FP depending on heat and etc.
neon fiber
time to grab the e g g then
turbid needle
Well there's already the advantage of you being able to reroll Hermes/Chaos boons which is huge by itself already
umbral lagoon
If you want a threshold, I would think @cunning urchin comment about how it's expected to get 1-2 of the same boons is not reasonable. I think it should be more random.
cunning urchin
I agree that they should be more transparent.
turbid needle
^
raw violet
but expecting 1-2 of the same boon is random
cunning urchin
No, it's expected when it's random to see that often enough that it's noticeable.
umbral lagoon
I think if you compute the expectation, it would be closer to seeing 0.66 of the same boon.
Just an estimate.
There's a lot of choices for boons after you pass Tier 1.
Chaos is just even more combinations.
So no, in the colloquial sense, I would disagree that seeing 1-2 of the same boon after 1 reroll is (uniformly) random.
naive tusk
I have to say, FA is also not so random because I seem to bump into many Centaur Hearts-Obols-Poms instead of boons when spamming FA on a door
umbral lagoon
Unless you are used to using a different canonical prob distribution.
naive tusk
So both FA & FP are kinda not so random.
raw violet
i do agree chaos is a good tester cause he doesn't have trees to deal with
umbral lagoon
You have 10 FA's.
turbid needle
Aren't boon rooms rarer than the Hearths/Obols/Poms already tho ?
turbid needle
Or is it the same chance
umbral lagoon
It's about the same, from experience.
turbid needle
Altho what I DO notice is rerolls in Styx are super consistent
naive tusk
I don't know, but I feel like each golden laurel reward should have an equal chance at appearing after using FA.
I decided to stay with FP because at least I can reroll Chaos & Hermes' choices, sometimes giving me better options. I will change to FA if I'm seeking duo boons or specific builds though.
turbid needle
More of the same stuff that should be transparent, IMO
naive tusk
Hm... I guess a 50/50 chance for both
umbral lagoon
FP works with duo boons quite well, again from experience.
turbid needle
The fact that we don't really know the base numbers to begin with is odd
umbral lagoon
Those kind of appear in appropriate timeframes if you have the mirror ability.
Though the mirror ability for legend/duo isn't that much of a buff.
depending if it's additive or multiplicative
naive tusk
I meant, seeking duo boons as if seeking 1 of the 2 gods I want (changing Poseidon's door into Artemis/Aphrodite for Heart Rend, for example).
raw violet
it's probably additive as most % boosts in the game are
umbral lagoon
ahh i see
raw violet
but that's only an assumption
umbral lagoon
ofc ofc
raw violet
cause who wants to actually test that?
umbral lagoon
It's not clear cause if it's additive, then how do the other percentages change?
turbid needle
^
cunning urchin
There's a lot of choices for boons after you pass Tier 1.
There really aren't that many choices, and core boons are quickly practically out of the pool with how rare exchanges are.
umbral lagoon
Do they take a ratio and then subtract ratio * that buff?
Maybe.
Either way, the cumulative probability is not clear.
raw violet
according to game files, there is a base % chance of legendary and duo boons appearing
turbid needle
Speaking of exchanges
Dio is drunk https://gyazo.com/4ba0f7d30fa8196419f00a960ec47c87
umbral lagoon
I'm still going back to computing the expectation.
Probability of getting 2 of the same boons is much worse than getting 1 of the same boon too, even if we only have 2 - 6 intermediate boons to pick from after Tier 1.
raw violet
"Dio is drunk" that seems like a redundant statement
umbral lagoon
The choice system should make things more variable but the results don't match.
turbid needle
Fair LOL
cunning urchin
@turbid needle what aspect?
turbid needle
But it's like, he practicaly did nothing for me because It's the last styx room I wanted
Zagreus aspect for spear
I'm just screwing around in 32 heat at this point LOL
cunning urchin
Ah lol.
naive tusk
@turbid needle Any tips for Zagreus Spear? I want to like it more
turbid needle
It's Guan-Yu lite pretty much
naive tusk
Well, that's a bit disappointing 
turbid needle
Since you still get decent damage on spear throws
leaden hare
trying to figure out how to use spear as well
I'm going with aspect of achilles but didn't work out so well : \
turbid needle
But yeah, don't be afraid to build around the hammer upgrades
They are build defining for the most part
cunning urchin
Guan Yu gets way better damage on Special due to Piercing.
turbid needle
^
neon fiber
achilles is pretty fun for nyooom memes
cunning urchin
Plus not losing your weapon.
turbid needle
My first 32 heat win was with Achilles LMAO
neon fiber
but currently most of the spear aspects are fairly underwhelming when compared to other weapons
turbid needle
^
umbral lagoon
You need another source of damage that Achilles can support.
The spear itself has somewhat unimpressive DPS imo.
turbid needle
Athena cast would like to know your location
It's actually great with Achilles
And in general is an undervalued cast
turbid needle
You'll want to pair it with Artemis/Aphrodite duos to get the most out of it
Zeus isn't a bad option either depending on your weapon/aspect
Since the duo is actually decent
It's not GREAT but it's there
cunning urchin
Zagreus Aspect Varatha, in my opinion, is about as good as you would expect an aspect to be that's focused on throwing away your weapon while hordes of enemies try to kill you.
raw violet
if you can get explosive throw, it solves the clunky problem of having to retrieve your spear every throw
but again, if that's your solution, you might as well guan yu
turbid needle
I actually like Poseidon a lot because of the knockback actually working well for the "Yeet at thy foe" plan spear usually plays
Then there's spin and rapid jab thrown in there
gaunt tundra
i use spearyeet so sparse that i actually prefer running ares's doom
gaunt tundra
helps me clear off some fleeing enemies while making cheese off close enemies
ares's based on special
i get some other attack
when i do get anything, RNGjesus ain't kind sometimes
cunning urchin
@naive tusk try a Tidal Dash build + either Tempest Flourish, Curse of Pain, or Drunken Flourish, and hope for Chain Skewer. I think that might be fun and effective. Yeeting your weapon away might actually work well with a dash build lol.
Just an idea, anyway.
turbid arch
I always felt like the charge attack for the spear should not have been that huge 360 strike but instead more like what Guan Yu Special is
A strong forward throw with good impact and decent width
Only problem there would be that that would be too close to bow and shield
naive tusk
I will be trying that out for sure
gaunt tundra
the charge attack in itself ain't a bad idea, helps to clear in area, that is something the lance often lacks without some boons
naive tusk
I like getting new ideas from other people 
gaunt tundra
it is, way, way too slow
cunning urchin
Drunken Flourish, actually. So you can get Rupture + Hangover for a longlasting Privileged Status.
turbid needle
@naive tusk Do add into what Nyan is saying, Rapid jab builds are actually super powerful, and that's something Guan-Yu can't use. It's another option to get from hammers
turbid arch
I mean, when I think of what Spear combat should be, my first associations are usually "Melee to midrange combat, focus on piercing movements forward, Final Fantasy Dragoon Jumps"
turbid needle
Guan-Yu is more specialized, but Zag spear is much more versatile
mighty ermine
@naive tusk from a couple days ago; artemis and skewers is fun for zag aspect if you want to use it in particular!
turbid arch
Big Swinging Attacks usually not my first idea because I think that spears are not the best weapons for that.
Sure you COULD do it, but you would need to pull some levels of SSBM Marth Gameplay, as in, making sure to always hit an enemy with the spear tip.
gaunt tundra
they aren't, but i think that's why they picked a naginata like guan yu XD
turbid needle
@naive tusk Vicious Skewer is actually pretty good too for damage if you can get it https://gyazo.com/e2a0b22eb862ef8c53631e1351f8220f
cunning urchin
Why can't Spear spin instead be a Jump à la Final Fantasy. That would be fun.
turbid arch
I suggested that many moons ago for the special.
turbid needle
I mean the spear dudes do that already
in Elysium
hell even the shield dudes do more spinning then them LOL
turbid arch
Yeah, it's a tragedy that spear heroes are better spear wielders than us
I think I would enjoy playing an Elysium Spear Hero more than I do playing with Varatha.
But maybe that is just me having too much respect for those scumbags.
naive tusk
What nice ideas! I actually tried Deadly Flourish + Chain Skewer along with Hunter's Mark. It was a janitor's dream 👌
turbid arch
I mean, we could then go and look at other spear wielders in the game.
Hades, who uses his spear more like a sword with his 3 hit swing combo and his 360 swing
He does have a stinging motion, but you can do those with a sword as well.
turbid needle
hades 360 no-scopes like a champ and he doesn't even use guns
turbid arch
And then there is Theseus who uses the same special as Zagreus, but with better aiming
And he also does a wild 360 spin
He does it twice though
Oh, idea
turbid needle
Theseus also cheats by dual-wielding tho
cunning urchin
hades 360 no-scopes
I was going to say the same thing about Longspears lol.
turbid needle
Like he has a shield, who's to say he's spining because of the spear or because of the shield like the elysium shield dudes
cunning urchin
From off-screen.
turbid arch
Good point.
raw violet
Theseus is a new dark souls player
turbid needle
LMAO
neon fiber
we can also 360 no scope with the spear but our sweep sucks
neon fiber
😔
mighty ermine
2H and iframes baybee
raw violet
What you actually mean is Theseus cheats by dual wielding miniguns
turbid arch
Technicly, they could introduce Zagreus dual wielding pretty easily.
turbid needle
... second phase
raw violet
And I guess a chariot
turbid needle
But yeah double miniguns too
turbid arch
Put a weapon into slot 1, put another weapon into slot 2. Weapon 1 uses its attack, weapon 2 uses it's special.
Would throw out the balance right out the window
turbid needle
That'd be neat, but also sorta confusing
turbid arch
but I'll be damned if that would not create hilarious runs
neon fiber
yeah
why can't we use malphon and another weapon
turbid arch
Say you go for Shield Main and Sword off hand
raw violet
You know, I didn’t even think about the absurdity until now when I put it into words but....miniguns?
turbid needle
Sword can actually have a projectile !
turbid arch
You can Shield Charge Attack into your enemy and follow it up with a sword nova
neon fiber
haha macedonian go brrrrrrrrrrr
turbid arch
You could throw Bow Attacks out while throwing out Rail grenades.
gaunt tundra
shhhh, don't give them ideas
raw violet
Sword does have a projectile though
gaunt tundra
i don't want thesseus to get adamant on his chariot, and then get down with malphon, varatha and aegis
turbid arch
Shield + Malphon would be amazing!
Shield Attack + Shield Charge + Dash Specials of Malphon.
gaunt tundra
small shields are used as knucke dusters sometimes
turbid arch
you would be the ultimate Brawler
gaunt tundra
so it wouldn't be that weird to have both
turbid arch
Melee Martial Artist + Shield wielder would be my personal favorite kind of fantasy character.
Shield Wielding Monk
gaunt tundra
monks already work more or less like that, but they themselves are the shields
turbid arch
Yoooo dawg
turbid needle
Actually, Shield attack + Bow special. Get those shotgun hits more easily
turbid arch
I heard you like shields so we put a shield on your human shield monk so you can shield while you shield.
XZibit approves.
gaunt tundra
i would like a proficent shield wearing class, but people don't have much creativity to get a good shield moveset going on 😦
turbid arch
I mean, Supergiant did a great job turning a shield into an offensive and defensive masterpiece.
turbid arch
Then there is Captain America who finds new and inventive ways to break the laws of physics with his vibranium shield
gaunt tundra
cap uses american magic to bring the shield back
cunning urchin
Shield Attack + Shield Charge + Dash Specials of Malphon.
That's basically what I do in my Malphon builds with Divine Strike + Divine Dash + Explosive Upper lol.
turbid arch
And don't get me started on this gentleman https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/smite_gamepedia/e/ea/SkinShot_Cabrakan_Default2.png
turbid needle
If you count card games, Reva from One Step From Eden too LOL
turbid arch
Oh yeah, Darksiders 2 had gauntlets that you could use for defense and offense.
turbid needle
All about reflects and stuff
turbid arch
Problem with that game was that you never really wanted to do that because of how OP his arcane spells were.
Crows + Zombie Army kept you alive for days while killing everyone and the scythes gave you OP wrath regeneration with the right passive.
But I digress.
gaunt tundra
yeah, but the possibility is there XD
gave a good old beating while being able to use an energy shield on the run
don't know if this will show a photo
let me see
it does, good
turbid arch
Yeah, the design on those were pretty nice. But then again, "style" was never one of Darksiders problems for the most part, especially in game 2. Death made everything work.
In terms of satisfying shield gameplay, Curse Of The Dead Gods also made a good job.
Shield bash with strong knockback, shield charge with a stun, shield combo finisher for decent damage and strong knock back.
gaunt tundra
it's not an easy gameplay to land, that's for sure
i'm i'm glad supergiant managed to land it
they even went ahead and added some special twist like zeus's special
turbid arch
I am waiting for what the shield aspect will be.
turbid needle
^
turbid arch
It will have to pack one hell of a punch
neon fiber
same
also really curious about the fists
turbid arch
I hope that the fist aspect will do for me what the Guan Yu Aspect did.
neon fiber
and currently wondering about what the hell are they going to do with exagryph
turbid arch
"Make me care for a weapon I otherwise could not care less for."
neon fiber
i still say that aspect of rambo is objectively the best choice
for a fourth exagryph aspect
turbid arch
With Arthur, they have proven that they are willing to go into past fiction.
With Rail, they might take it into SciFi and give Zagreus a laser gun.
silver solstice
Has anyone else been calling the Bone Hydra "Lernard"
turbid arch
What if the Shield Aspect will turn into Kung Laos head from MK11?
That'd be a hilarious twist.
gaunt tundra
depends on which shield they take
if they take El Cid's shield, with a dragon head, i would be all out for having a shield that can bite and carry enemies around, using them as shields
neon fiber
why not Svalinn?
it's a norse shield that stands between the earth and the sun to prevent it from being scorched
ozone layer shield confirmed
cunning urchin
@turbid arch have you posted any feedback for changes you'd want to see for Malphon?
gaunt tundra
did any human get to carry svalinn?
turbid arch
Not a lot and some of it has already been implemented.
I do not play Malphon a lot and I would not know what kind of substancial changes I would like to make to it in order to make me like it more.
neon fiber
unsure but iirc fourth aspects don't necessarily require a future human wielder, i think supergiant just said they wanted fourth aspects to be an exotic aspect
turbid arch
A problem is that I have a hard time gauging how strong the weapon actually is because it is hard to get a solid idea on how strong my attacks are because of the counting system.
turbid arch
I do know that I dislike the weapon aspects a lot for a couple of reasons.
neon fiber
"shut up and eat the skull boy" -Hades
turbid arch
@dry ember Your wish comes true. Hades now hits for 160 damage.
cunning urchin
I see I see.
turbid arch
I don't think it even needs EM4 for that.
he already hits for 80 base with 100% extra damage.
dry ember
isnt 80 with hard labor?
turbid arch
Yeah.
neon fiber
i'm actually terrified about EM4
turbid arch
And then you eat a caststone.
neon fiber
also i have made a great discovery
some people think that EM3 is about ||busting out things from the armory for theseus and asterion but the real theme of EM3 is teaching the heroes to do circles:
asterius learns to spin2win and theseus does sick wheelies around the arena with his macedonian||
turbid needle
When you have a big ass chariot chasing you, it happens more often than you'd think LOL
raw violet
Hades is just trying to be a good dad by playing catch with his son outside
turbid needle
... Yeah that'll happen LOL
neon fiber
"boy let's play catch
the rules say you have to catch the ball with your face" -Hades
turbid needle
LOL
raw violet
It's not Hades fault his sense of love is skewed by his trauma with Kronos
magic dagger
Hasted Brimstones might be the best way to commit suicide
I don't like pressing the give up button
dry ember
nah
dry ember
Bruiser Puller Snakestones on melee weapons
turbid arch
I saw.
dry ember
Now that's pain
turbid needle
How about Bruiser and Homing on the Witches when they do nothing but stand above lava
dry ember
how about the entire map is lava
actually
it would be really crazy
if we have a mod that makes every tile in the game is some combination of traps and arrow traps
raw violet
what is wrong with you
turbid needle
Heightened Security would like to know your location
mighty ermine
chop chop modders
dry ember
and you basically have a boss rush
mighty ermine
make a nightmare biome
dry ember
have you seen the stuff that the Hollow Knight community is coming up with?
turbid arch
Every tile on the ground is a trap
neon fiber
savior teleporting snakestones
turbid arch
but you use Excalibur
turbid needle
INB4 Secret Chaos room that is basically just that
dry ember
they made some obscene mods
turbid needle
Skyrim screaming memes in the distance
raw violet
are you saying obscene like skyrim mod obscene or obscene like i mario maker obscene?
dry ember
mario maker obscene
turbid needle
oh ok
turbid needle
Skyrim is notorious to have some of the most memetastic mods
And is a meme game itself kinda
raw violet
i don't play skyrim either
turbid needle
Never played Skyrim, I just learned that from the various memes surrounding it
dry ember
lmao 3 people who never touched the game are now discussing it
cunning urchin
Stay on-topic.
dry ember
you are not a mod, i ain't scared of you
cunning urchin
But my tag team partner is.
dry ember
Stay on-topic.
raw violet
this is on topic, i'm only using references to understand Hades modding
cause it's a christian server
turbid needle
Wait I thought this was a greek server
raw violet
even the greeks were more obscene
turbid arch
If we go by the overall tone in here, definitivly more modern christianity than ancient greek.
turbid needle
... How is your god not Bouldy
raw violet
just nectar sacrifice
raw violet
tomato tomato
turbid arch
What about Tomatos?
turbid needle
Than tomato
Either way
Couldn't quite get the victory screen to work, but uh shotgun bow build is fun
dry ember
is this your first 32 or ?
turbid needle
not even close at this point
dry ember
ok lol
turbid needle
It's like my 20th at 'least