you get a same effect with stygius and flurry whatever slash
#h1-builds-and-combat
raw violet
raw violet
oh god, i believe
mighty ermine
sending you my spirit bomb energy
mighty ermine
dry ember
It happens xD
raw violet
good try
cunning urchin
Did you make it?
cunning urchin
@full steppe it's a whole lot harder to force a build on very high heat. So you get to have more consistent builds for a while as you go up in heat, then later on it's a lot more RNG that you have to make work somehow.
full steppe
Yeah as I say, I'm not playing on max heat yet. What results in that then?
cunning urchin
Being offered fewer choices (first only 2, then only 1), having to sacrifice a boon after each region, and everything costing +80% while you need more healing etc., so you won't get to spend obols as often on boons.
Might have to skip boon chambers because you need healing, etc.
You can still force the gods you want with keepsakes, but they might not give you what you want, you don't know when they next show up, you might have to sacrifice their boon and then can't force them again, . . .
young gorge
@naive tusk https://imgur.com/a/THxiXyY I DID IT!!!
cunning urchin
Congratulations!
young gorge
it worked immediately wow
i have been trying to get it for SO LONG
a good way to celebrate my 100th run š„³
cunning urchin
š„³
young gorge
i had like 10 casts at the end of hades i was living
i just spammed right click and he died
cunning urchin
Lol nice.
untold vortex
Noice 
errant narwhal
congrats!
i got it again while not even really trying for it the other day
you really have to choose such specific boons and get so lucky, though....
dry ember
@cunning urchin yeah I made it, but then realize the setting was at 23 heat not 32 xD. Basically I played on the wrong heat the entire time. No wonder why it was so easy.
opal bay
oh oh
dry ember
wasn't even bothered to get screenshot
cunning urchin
cunning urchin
Ugh, I'm really getting tired of finding only 2 boons in Tartarus or Asphodel.
oblique cedar
I managed to make it out once yesterday with the machine gun weapon, ive tried all the weapons but havent made it past the minotaur and other guy yet. You guys have any tips with the other weapons? And is cast, right click thingy, good? I havent really chosen relics or stuff for it because it doesnt seem that g ood to me but idk
restive solar
Cast is very, very good
I also found it underwhelming when i was starting
For now, i recommend focusing on using it to get the bonus damage on enemies that have cast stuck in them
Thatāll get you used to weaving cast into your attack patterns
@oblique cedar
oblique cedar
yeah figured as much haha im trying to get used to it
thanks man
btw is it worth taking relics that alter how cast works?
i took one that makes it an ice beam
earnest ravine
Most of the cast boons are absolutely worth it, yeah. The one you just grabbed is considered one of the weaker ones without another boon to prop up its targeting, and it's still capable of shredding enemies.
The only ones that are like, medicorce are that one, the one from Zeus, and Athenas, but even they're perfectly servicable.
oblique cedar
alright, thanks š still trying to work out what is good and whats not
earnest ravine
(and i only say the zeus one is iffy because it's not As Good as a lot of the others but still gonna kill things fast)
cunning urchin
I think Crystal Beam is pretty good if you don't play with FO2.
stoic thicket
The Demeter cast was what carried me hard through my first two escapes.
earnest ravine
RIGHT. I forget that sometimes
leaden hare
I'm having a similar problem, used the bow to beat the final boss but can't when switching to other weapons :\
oblique cedar
I managed an escape yesterday with rocket special on machine gun together with crit on it+weak on attack and extra crit dmg on weak targets
did some insane crits
gonna try escape with sword now and try to learn cast more
earnest ravine
Ah, the traditional "make them asplode" build
oblique cedar
yeah it was super fun hahaha
gonna try out a few cast relics now š
thanks for help guys
leaden hare
good luck!
cunning urchin
If you can clear with the bow, might as well keep doing that and go up in heat while farming more Darkness, Gemstones, Titan Blood, etc.
Same for any other weapon that works for you. Once you have more mirror talents and stronger weapons, things become easier.
leaden hare
š¤ After doing some experiment I think this is the best solution, especially on getting more titan blood
cunning urchin
Path of least resistance.
restive solar
If you can
oblique cedar
I assume u get one titan blood everytime u choose new heat gauge thing?
restive solar
2
First and final boss
Titan blood is pretty critical to your gameplay experience so pursuing more is very very important
Honestly one of my few criticisms of the game is how little Titan blood you have to work with at the beginning
oblique cedar
alright alright
restive solar
Upgraded weapons are massively more effective, and massively more interesting to play with
cunning urchin
I like it because the game gradually opens up that way.
restive solar
It does, the problem is really that you canāt take back your initial choice
Which you make when you have no understanding of how you should be spending blood
oblique cedar
costs a lot of blood upgrading weapons
cunning urchin
I don't really have a problem with that, either. I dunno. You're never in an unwinnable situation because of how you spent your Titan Blood.
oblique cedar
kinda threw it all in the machine gun cant remember the name sorry
restive solar
Definitely it wonāt stop you from winning. Thereās just a frustrating period when youāre still stuck on trying to get that first win
And you literally canāt get more blood until you do
cunning urchin
To be fair, I did quit the game a couple times after upgrading a weapon to change my decision.
restive solar
Exactly
This isnāt a game breaking problem
But
Having a way to trial weapon aspects would be huge
fierce oracle
sup
restive solar
Gtg
fierce oracle
Does Hermes atc speed buff affect attack after dash?
becoz i don't see it's effect on it
oblique cedar
what do u guys go with in mirror? I assume increased damage on mobs with cast thing in them but do u go recharge cast or more uses?
restive solar
Thatās a divisive question
And also a flexible one
Iām diehard for recharge cast most of the time, but for certain builds and weapon aspects Iāll switch over to multi cast
Recharge cast is definitely less mental work because you donāt have to keep in mind where your cast ended up
oblique cedar
yeah thats what I feel hahaha
but ye thats fair
cant really go wrong with either then i guess
restive solar
Yeah definitely
oblique cedar
thanks my man
restive solar
Np
fierce oracle
I use recharge on my ranged builds or shotmain builds
and use +2 shots on melee builds with atc damage
restive solar
Thatās almost the reverse of me haha
fierce oracle
Well, there are many strong boons that affect shot
You can use them every 3 sec if it recharging
It will help on bosses to
too*
restive solar
And if I have an attack focused build, then I only really want to cast every 3 seconds anyway
fierce oracle
i use 3 shots to swap targets in room while atcking them
there are many moments when i need to dash in one corner to another
so don't waste time and swap target to near
and my shots are weak anyway when i collect boons that boost atc
restive solar
š¤·āāļø
I feel differently, but itās part of the joy of Hades that we can both approach this differently and still succeed
fierce oracle
yeah just opinion
Does Hermes atc speed buff affect attack after dash?
@fierce oracle
becoz i don't see it's effect on it
@fierce oracle
Now i can say it not affect atc speed
I tested it and i can't tell that my attacks after dash are being faster
So it doesn't work (still maybe wrong)
i tested it on bow
green birch
Hey gang. I have an incredibly difficult choice to make. Someone help me out
Running Sword Aspect of Arthur
cunning urchin
Deadly Reversal.
green birch
That's what I was thinking
cunning urchin
Spent Spirit is great, but Excalibur's aura already slows down projectiles and gives you a lot of survivability.
restive solar
Spent spirit is the epitome of decent
cunning urchin
And you have Deflect on dash, so Deadly Reversal is up like 99% of the time.
green birch
the allure of two different duos and an epic swap was a powerful call
aight, deadly reversal it is
cunning urchin
You're better off keeping that Heartbreak Flourish to apply Weak.
restive solar
Agreed
cunning urchin
Plus, your rare Heartbreak Flourish already does the same damage that an Epic Divine Flourish would deal (although Deflect can add some extra damage).
Spent Spirit is really underestimated, in my opinion. It helps a whole lot against poison darts in Styx and Hades's skulls.
But again, Excalibur helps with that already anyway.
Urgh, why is he trolling me like this. https://imgur.com/a/DiAAdDb
I could take the Attack and sell it before Asphodel, but then I start Asphodel without an Attack boon.
oblique cedar
why sell?
neon fiber
they might be using the one pact o punishment bit where you have to give up one of your boons before each area
cunning urchin
Yeah, that. Drunken Strike is also the worst Attack boon on Malphon honestly.
oblique cedar
ahh ok
restive solar
I frequently take boons in tartarus and sell them before asphodel just for the cash
I never start with a god keepsake so Iām not hugely likely to get the boons I really want in tartarus anyway
turbid arch
@tepid ridge Eyyyy, you are here as well! My man!
neon fiber
elaborate further sinister lad
neon fiber
depends
if it's a buff given by a god then it's a boon
calls are always worth taking
oblique cedar
oh really hmm
turbid arch
cough Aphrodite
proven robin
On a side note, last night I did a run with Aspect of Hera, and despite my Cast being Aphrodite's, Common rarity, not leveled, it did the job! Also helps that I got the Aphrodite/Artemis Duo, and Dying Lament sometimes made for a wonderfully satisfying chain reaction.
Also, yeah, hers works fine as far as crowd control with Hera. Just aim at the lead enemy in a group rather than the center.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2113719813
neon fiber
some are better than others but taking one is generally never a bad idea
oblique cedar
alright thanks
turbid arch
I disagree. Aphrodites Call is just very very bad. The problem with its badness does not end with just it being bad, no, it also causes your boon pools for Poseidon, Zeus, Artemis and Athena to clutter even more because they will now give you their associated call boons.
Which are usually questionable choices all by themselves even when you have a good Call at your disposal.
There should never ever be a moment in time where taking Aphrodites Call is being the best option to take out of three.
tepid ridge
I prioritize Dioās call, Demeterās, Aresā and maybe Athena or Poseidonās but apparently thereās a movement bug with Poseidonās that I havenāt seen. But honestly calls donāt factor into my gameplay style that much.
turbid arch
Zeus is my favorite probably. Deals good damage, is his best active boon and thus opens you up for all his duo boons.
Ares I do not like that much because he is too slow. I dislike not being to act for 2 seconds everytime I pop it because of tight deadline. Those two seconds on a regular basis matter. Aside from that, cool for the invincibility.
cunning urchin
Do I sell Boiling Point or Greater Evasion? I have a rare Athena's Aid at Lv.2, so Boiling Point would add a lot of survivability, too. https://imgur.com/a/WhRJplG
neon fiber
sell deadly flourish
turbid arch
What is your weapon?
turbid arch
I'd say either BP or Greater Evasion then.
neon fiber
deadly flourish
proven robin
What's your Call?
turbid arch
I do not know your pact set up, but I would lean to Greater Evasion.
tepid ridge
I would sell boiling point but I overrate evasion. It offers some good survivability in its own right. Also @turbid arch yes I am here haha, and in the Passtech/Curse of the Dead Gods server too. Nice to see ya. But Iām getting a little off topic hehe.
proven robin
If your Call is like "Gotta pop it all the time," I'd sell Greater Evasion.
cunning urchin
Yeah, I'm leaning towards selling Greater Evasion, too.
proven robin
But otherwise, I'd sell Boiling Point.
cunning urchin
Pacts: https://imgur.com/a/rSCrrm5
proven robin
OH is that Athena?
cunning urchin
Yes.
proven robin
In that case, yeah, definitely sell Greater Evasion.
Though I do like dodge, that Call gives you way more survivability when it matters.
turbid arch
So if you get slugged hard once, you will get a lot of aid charge which gives you a lot of potencial damage mitigation with the Athena Boon
Reliably so
But if you just never get hit, it would be wasted.
Same case for the evasion though, really.
neon fiber
deadly flourish
proven robin
Deadly Flourish powering up your Shin Shoryuken is pretty great, though.
turbid arch
Don't make the human give up on its main source of damage, JoJo Reference!
cunning urchin
Woman.
neon fiber
deadly flourish
proven robin
Don't care how "optimal" it is or isn't, let Shin Shoryuken live its best life.
neon fiber
in all seriousness how fast can you attack
cunning urchin
If I sold Deadly Flourish now before Elysium with TD2, I might as well turn around now and go back to the House of Hades. 
neon fiber
because depending on how fast you can nyoom and fist your enemies taking boiling point down might not be a bad idea
neon fiber
yes but they have athena dash
turbid arch
You just need to meet some fancy Spear or shield heroes or, dare I say, some idiotic fully armored chariots
neon fiber
which means that depending on how fast they can move half the enemies are a non-issue
then again, 33 heat
turbid arch
I see no Juri Summons nor Calisthenics Program, so the floor will not be the absolute worst
neon fiber
jury*
cunning urchin
I've sold Greater Evasion. Now to pick a keepsake. Owl Pendant and Arrowhead are already used.
neon fiber
also in retrospect maybe greater evasion might be the better purging choice
yeah
use the broken manacle
cunning urchin
There's a Yarn of Ariadne for sale.
turbid arch
Oh for the love of godzilla, If you guys are going to correct me on every small or big mistake I will make, we will never get anywhere!
turbid arch
@cunning urchin I would take the defensive keepsake you want to use in Styx.
Unless it's Skellys Tooth.
neon fiber
yeah, save the defensive ones for the last area
cunning urchin
I tend to use Acorn in Styx.
turbid arch
Take the Acorn now.
It will be good against Theseus and Asterius too.
You have 80% extra damage, a stray bomb of Theseus will deal hideous amounts of damage.
So will everything Asterius does and you play the fists, pure Melee, you will put yourself in a lot of risk.
cunning urchin
That's EM2. So no bombs.
neon fiber
coward
then uh
maybe achilles' keepsake?
that could help you further tank some of the damage
or patroclus'
turbid arch
Cerberus Keepsake is also interesting.
There were 3 death defiances if I saw correctly, so it will always give you full value.
neon fiber
yeah but she does have a high amount of hp going on already
cunning urchin
I was considering Eternal Rose + the Yarn of Ariadne and trying to get Heartbreak Strike for DPS and Weak.
neon fiber
oh that's a good option too
turbid arch
Could also just take the money if that is still available.
turbid arch
If you do not know what to do, you can hardly if ever go wrong with the money.
150 gold is still more than half of a gold boon.
cunning urchin
That's true.
turbid arch
You also have no healing penalties, so you can also invest in some healing from a well, if you so desire.
cunning urchin
And it could buy me a DD if I mess up, too.
turbid arch
Unpopular opinion:
Chaos Egg might be good.
Chaos helping you to skip rooms in Elysium is very useful for making Tight Deadline work.
Do you have Persuasion or Authority?
cunning urchin
I have 1 Persuasion.
turbid arch
In that case, you can use that to either buy a Light of Ixion along the way and/or reroll lan offered Chaos room
tepid ridge
Plus Egg lets you talk to Cool Voice
turbid arch
Which may give you even some stronger Specials
cunning urchin
I could reroll the shop now and see what I get. But should I buy the Yarn of Ariadne first, though?
Actually, I think since that's the middle option, if I take that, it won't offer a Light of Ixion? I'm not entirely sure.
I'll just reroll actually. The Yarn is a bit too expensive here, need the cash for healing.
Hourglass + buy the Hydra Lite on sale would give me a pretty good start, too.
It adds +8 chambers, right? So that's 10% healing for 11 chambers through Elysium.
Adds up to 253 HP.
stoic thicket
Hrmpf, I guess I need to start to target-farm Darkness. Wanna finish that Nyx questline.
cunning urchin
Rerolled. No Light of Ixion. So no Chaos Egg, I think.
I'll take the Coin Purse.
Thank you all for your assistance. Now to make it through Elysium and then die to Bruiser Snakestones.
lol
Obols, Heart, Chaos.
stoic thicket
Do you get more Darkness on higher heat or can I just go heat 0 if all I want is to farm up some Darkness?
cunning urchin
turbid arch
Chaos giveth
cunning urchin
You can just do 0 heat.
cunning urchin
I suppose +74% in 3 chambers early on in Elysium isn't too bad? Attack after will help clear every other chamber faster.
turbid arch
Is healing for dankness enabled?
cunning urchin
Yes.
turbid arch
74% more enemies is super deadly.
Remember that all those blokes deal 80% extra damage.
cunning urchin
Hmm true.
turbid arch
Coming into a room swarmed with armored flame wheels?
Spear Heroes and Shield Idiots?
cunning urchin
Okay okay, I'm convinced.
turbid arch
Or an unholy mix out of all of those?
cunning urchin
Eclipse it is.
turbid arch
I mean, the inferno bombs are just as bad.
tepid ridge
I would take the Eclipse too, that much healing from any given fountain is delicious
turbid arch
WHen the Flame Wheels come, they come in bulk. But you have Divine Dash, so you can just deflect most of the bombs with that
cunning urchin
Yeah, I'll take that.
proven robin
At least Inferno Bombs can be deflected, yeah.
ANd dodged much more definitively than extra enemies.
turbid arch
I haven't played Hades for a week now.
Have been so busy with work and some other streams that I never found a nice window of opportunity. And now that it is saturday and I have free time, I do not feel like gaming and more like taking a break.
cunning urchin
Umm . . . Artemis/Dionysus chamber or Charon. I feel like I wanna just go with Charon and speed things up.
fierce oracle
Spear Heroes and Shield Idiots?
@turbid arch
cunning urchin
Especially since there will be bombs.
turbid arch
Mixed opinions on that one.
You do want Artemis, at least I take that from what you said earlier
and Dio can offer some grade-a Boons as well.
You also want to get rid of the chaos boon sooner rather than later.
You know what?
No.
Ignore what I said.
Go for the shop.
cunning urchin
I have trauma from Greatshields + Popper + Demeter's trial in my last run.
turbid arch
I went for trial of god rooms plenty of times and I know I would do it again every time
But I can recall a lot of occassions where that ended up burning me.
proven robin
Hm.
cunning urchin
Yeah, that cost me 2 DDs last time.
proven robin
Between those, picking Artemis and tanking Dionysus's anger seems doable, but then again I dunno your style.
turbid arch
I'd rather tank Artemis anger than Dionysus.
cunning urchin
Couldn't kill their shades because they kept reviving in Demeter's AOE.
proven robin
Yeah, same with Athena.
Demeter and Athena are perhaps the two most annoying gods to go against.
For me, at least.
turbid arch
Ares can be ridiculous on high heated runs as well.
cunning urchin
Shop offers Artemis. Rare Deadly Strike or Deadly Reversal. I think that's a clear choice for Deadly Reversal.
cunning urchin
Elite Dio or Hermes? Hm hm.
turbid arch
Usually I would say Dionysus every day
but with what you got going on, I don't think he will fit that nicely in.
Hermes could give you some nice added defense and/or make your attack/specials faster which could both be nice.
cunning urchin
I think Dionysus works on a lot of things but not that well on Malphon.
turbid arch
He works amazingly on Malphon, but you are already dedicated to your Demeter Aspect Crits
I do not know if you have Priv status.
cunning urchin
No.
turbid arch
if you do, a debuff would be great just for that
If you do not, then the only things that would be truly interesting here from him would be Premium Vintage and
I forgot the name, up to 20% damage mitigation while you are under 40% HP.
Afterparty could also be cute for you since you have no healing penalties active and a reasonable amount of HP.
But leaving that aside, I'd say that Hermes has a higher overall chance of rewarding you with something useful.
dry ember
Morning peeps
cunning urchin
+40% movement speed or common Second Wind.
turbid arch
@dry ember Did you just assume my time of the day?
dry ember
Is nyaa still trying to one up people with 33 heat run
cunning urchin
That's still +30% from Second Wind.
turbid arch
It's actually almost 6pm over here.
turbid arch
Remember that you have Boiling Point
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's why I'm considering it.
turbid arch
so you will get basicly permament uptime on that second wind
How long does it last these days? 15 seconds?
cunning urchin
10 seconds.
cunning urchin
Yes.
turbid arch
So inconsiderate towards other peoples timezones. Have you no shame?
I am everything but serious here of course.
cunning urchin
He's a dog. Of course he has no shame.
dry ember
Yes
graceful smelt
nice
dry ember
Rupture trigger when they move
cunning urchin
I'll take Second Wind, then.
graceful smelt
does it work with Knockback vs bosses
cunning urchin
Been getting hit by bombs, but I still have 1 Bouldy charge and about half my HP.
And all 3 DDs.
dry ember
Afaik knockback does work with bosses
Just the knockback isn't that impressive
It still works though
cunning urchin
I'd like Elite Athena a lot, but I think Patroclus is the clear choice. Speed things up and get some healing.
dry ember
St. Patty for sure I think
cunning urchin
Hum. Athena or Artemis.
dry ember
Idk what your current build is... Good luck.
cunning urchin
dry ember
Maybe Arte for Clean Kill?
cunning urchin
Lady Athena now gives me a chance for Divine Strike and a better chance for DDs later if I need any. Lady Artemis could buff my Uppercut a whole lot.
dry ember
Or pressure point?
cunning urchin
Divine Strike would be a lot better than Pressure Points.
dry ember
Although Divine Strike is good Damage
cunning urchin
I have Deadly Reversal already.
cunning urchin
I think Lady Athena overall works better. Divine Strike would do better damage than Deadly Strike.
cunning urchin
Well, it's a rare Phalanx Shot or a DD. So the Phalanx Shot it is. Won't hurt.
Still better odds for an eventual DD later.
dry ember
Also UC is a thing
neon fiber
Knockback barely works with bosses but posi does offer two boons that help mitigate that: one of them makes attacks that deal knockback deal more damage to bosses and the other one makes your knockback attacks also deal ruptured, which makes them take damage when they move
Also worth mentioning ruptured works with everything, so razor shoal (the boon that gives Ruptured) is rarely a bad choice when youāre using posi boons
cunning urchin
And then there were Bruiser Snakestones. GGs. https://imgur.com/a/myR8i4s
cunning urchin
(One is hiding under the pause menu.)
dry ember
I trust
dry ember
Fists with Demeter
novel prawn
oh
dry ember
She might be in game so I'll try to answer :D
graceful smelt
anyone knows if i have to buy every lounge upgrade to finish Dusa' quest?
dry ember
Just some of them
I have her quest available when I bought some kitchen stuff
Idk that exact requirements but def not all lounge upgrades have to be bought
graceful smelt
well i already spent a lot of gems on the lounge and still nothing
maybe it's some specific upgrades
dry ember
Try the kitchen stuff if you haven't already
cunning urchin
3:11, full HP, 2 DDs. Might make it.
graceful smelt
thx Fox
main osprey
GL Nyaa!!
dry ember
God speed
cunning urchin
Hades.
cunning urchin
72 damage.
neon fiber
that's like
going off at the worst possible time
the only worse moment i can think of are the lazors
cunning urchin
It's my fault for being too aggressive, honestly.
I had plenty of time to take it more slowly. Ah well.
tepid ridge
And thatās why I like but never trust Athenaās call. Always seems to disappear right when you need it.
naive tusk
I'm too late but congratz Val š
neon fiber
yeah, getting greedy on hades is a bad choice
as soon as you hear the boon end bells, bail
cunning urchin
Those only ring during Greater Calls anyway.
That one's 100% on me. I had everything going for me. Ah well.
stoic thicket
Should be fine. For most runs I'd probably pick either Aphro or Athena over Ares but that should work regardless.
cunning urchin
Lady Artemis and Lord Ares on what?
graceful smelt
excalibur
cunning urchin
Yes, I mean what boons?
Attack? Special? Cast?
Curse of Agony and Curse of Pain are both poor on Excalibur.
graceful smelt
yeah i got curse of pain
since only other choice from ares was his call or cast
so nah to those
and i got artemis' deadly strike
cunning urchin
Well, Curse of Pain can work okay.
naive tusk
No love for blender builds
main osprey
Ares' call is good tho?
naive tusk
Oh yeah~
tepid ridge
I also like both blender and call more than Curse of Pain
graceful smelt
i'm going for Attack build so nah to those
naive tusk
It's a get-out-of-damage card in case you don't get other damage negating calls + nice damage š
Also, lazy mode
Which is the main reason I pick it š
main osprey
Ah, fair
cunning urchin
If you have Deadly Strike, you want to go for Chaos Gates to get Attack boons to really benefit from your crits.
naive tusk
Would you say Urge to Kill is also good for that?
cunning urchin
It won't hurt, certainly. Deadly Strike needs some damage buffs to overcome Heartbreak Strike. Tier 2 crit boons also help a lot.
naive tusk
Aphrodite to ensure she's in the run lol
cunning urchin
The Hammer will show up later anyway.
naive tusk
It will appear again, don't worry.
graceful smelt
ok thx
naive tusk
It always reappears for me in Elysium, as if the game is telling me "pick the darn hammer already" 
cunning urchin
If you didn't get 2 Hammers before Styx, 1 Hammer will definitely show up in Styx.
And the game is very insistent on giving you Hammers lol.
naive tusk
That's also a thing the game likes to do.
graceful smelt
yeah
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain is actually decent on Excalibur if you couldn't get Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish. The damage is close to those two. But Heartbreak Flourish imo is just by far the best.
graceful smelt
i took aphro and i got the hammer in the next room literally, nice
cunning urchin
Nice.
graceful smelt
is there any special mechanics with trials
if i get an Athena/Artemis trial and an Artemis room
are the chances of the same boons appearing the same
or one has higher chance of epics for example
unkempt pagoda
it should be the same for both, however you cannot get duo boons at all in trials
naive tusk
Some people have been saying that the 2nd god you pick will be offering to exchange a boon to a higher rarity.
I'm not 100% sure about that, I haven't been paying attention...
naive tusk
@unkempt pagoda Even Duo boons who doesn't include the other? Like Heart Rend when picking Artemis in an Artemis/Ares room.
Thanks for confirming that š
unkempt pagoda
honestly i just thought it was because it'd be too easy to get a duo boon
tepid ridge
I honestly would prefer still having the option to see duo boons appear there. Thatās a strange concession to make for the sake of maintaining the decision-making in trials.
unkempt pagoda
i mean, the shade emoji is there
so it was something that was brought up by the community at some point
cunning urchin
Curse of Pain is actually decent on Excalibur if you couldn't get Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish. The damage is close to those two. But Heartbreak Flourish imo is just by far the best.
Adding to that comment, Curse of Pain is second to those two in damage unless you pick Double Nova in which case it falls far behind any of the +% damage boons.
naive tusk
Double Nova with Arthur is not bad at all.
I wonder.....
Dire Misfortune + Double Nova 
Just kidding
cunning urchin
I'm trying to think of like an optimal Excalibur build. I think Heartbreak Flourish is BiS, and so is Divine Dash.
graceful smelt
got 4 duo boons with excalibur, nice
deadly reversal, merciful end, heart rend aand curse of longing
cunning urchin
Those two boons already give you a shot at Spent Spirit, which is great.
dry ember
Spent spirit 
cunning urchin
I guess Deadly Strike goes best with those two.
stoic thicket
I guess I just had the first real hard crash from the game.
That's a bit unfortunate, run was going well, but eh. After... um... 98 hours I'll file that under fair enough.
kindred skiff
OKEY SO LIKE IM DISGUSTED AT MYSELF
i had art and ares duo and cast from ares and dash from ares and emmm this is not good super pls balance xd
cunning urchin
@naive tusk thoughts on an optimal Excalibur build?
@kindred skiff I've managed to lose a run with Hunting Blades on 32 heat lol.
Still need Vicious Cycle to make it foolproof. Though I could probably find a way to lose that, too.
neon fiber
@cunning urchin the best excalibur build is adding three chaos attack boons to it
naive tusk
OMG I have only played Arthur 3 times I think so I'm still inexperienced with it 
I should play it more
main osprey
I mean, I've lost with dual shot ice wine :3
neon fiber
arthur takes a bit to get used to but once everything clicks together you become death, destroyer of worlds shades
kindred skiff
@cunning urchin i had it on 1 heat bc i reasently started playing but still emm ive done half of hades hp of his 2nd fase in like 5 secs
cunning urchin
Yeah, it's great!
graceful smelt
hm, where can i post a screenshot
cunning urchin
Ice Wine is great but also overrated in that it's certainly not a free win. Hunting Blades + Vicious Cycle is a lot stronger.
naive tusk
Screenshot of what?
main osprey
Link to imgur
graceful smelt
of my final build
kindred skiff
@graceful smelt you cant do it here
mystic vale
Hey, Theseus's spear is hanging in mid-air from when I killed him.
graceful smelt
naive tusk
Oh, to a image hosting site or anywhere where it will generate a link to your picture.
mystic vale
I should get to claim it.
naive tusk
That works
cunning urchin
But Ice Wine is easier to get and Trippy Shot a lot easier to use than Slicing Shot without the Duo Boons.
main osprey
Woah
kindred skiff
@graceful smelt wow.
main osprey
That's insane
naive tusk
"Duo Digger" 
mystic vale
I'm glad I don't get runs like that.
main osprey
That's incredible
neon fiber
yeah i wish you could loot his spear
mystic vale
I couldn't play with my blood flow that diverted.
cunning urchin
@graceful smelt congrats!
dry ember
@graceful smelt what on earth mate
kindred skiff
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kdj5ppnUsXc-qk-KZ9eFBonjHKUozR6U/view?usp=sharing if someone wants to see it enjoy
cunning urchin
Curse of Longing by the way needs serious buffs or a complete overhaul. I guess it's good for Privileged Status because it makes your Doom effects last longer, but that's . . . that's really it.
cunning urchin
Spent Spirit is great.
graceful smelt
hm
naive tusk
Curse of Longing new description should be: "Your Privileged Status gets to trigger more often."
cunning urchin
You're underestimating how much it helps especially in Styx and vs Hades. Poison darts and Hades's skulls are a lot harder to deal with than other projectiles in the game. And I think it affects Theseus''s spear, too?
@naive tusk it should lol. That's like the main use.
naive tusk
Spent Spirit is one of my favorites duo boons 
And it's not only because it has a heart in it nope
cunning urchin
Lightning Rod and Curse of Longing are the only ones that really need a buff or overhaul, in my opinion.
Actually, Vengeful Mood, too.
But that's mainly because it relies too much on getting a lot of Revenge boons, and those have kind of weak AOE at the moment.
mighty ermine
the hades skull speed on spent spirit and hallowed ground aura during my 32 arthur run was downright comical. worth it for that alone honestly
flying snails
cunning urchin
Did you do that with FO2?
mighty ermine
yeah
cunning urchin
Nice.
mighty ermine
the exalted spearmen in elysium... 
mystic vale
If there's only one living enemy, will Hunter's Mark apply to it if it's the same one you crit?
mighty ermine
they were maybe the worst part
cunning urchin
How do you clear under 13 minutes so consistently? I've been meaning to ask you. Or is your average higher than that, but the ones you tend to post are just that fast.
mystic vale
The wording suggests there needs to be at least two monsters.
cunning urchin
@mystic vale no idea, find out and report back to us.
mighty ermine
i'd say my average is a little higher, maybe around 15 for most casual runs!
cunning urchin
On what heat? Any?
mighty ermine
11-13 are when they go really well, with great sack rng and all
mystic vale
Well my only remaining enemy is the end boss, so I'm not going to have time to pay attention. :p
tepid ridge
@mystic vale pretty sure it doesnāt which is why I never take that boon, but Iād love to be proven wrong!
mighty ermine
i typically run 11 heat when i'm planning on going fast
which is just like, EM2, FO2, and TD1
cunning urchin
I see I see.
mystic vale
Support Fire is my other option. With Guan Yu. Never got an attack boon though so I'll be chucking spears like a boss.
dry ember
main osprey
How does SF work with GY's spin attack?
naive tusk
Hunter's Mark won't be applied to the same enemy you have crit, btw š
cunning urchin
So your 20+ heat runs would be closer to my times? 18~22 minutes, usually.
mystic vale
Also, I expect to fail miserably and die.
dry ember
mom get the camera
mystic vale
Got it, so it's a non-option.
naive tusk
But in every boss fight, you will have the opportunity to strike a 2nd enemy 
mighty ermine
yeah i'd say so!
dry ember
frost is p good
cunning urchin
@dry ember congrats! Not as good as your 57 run, but nice nonetheless.
I guess those 32-heat clears must mean nothing to you at this point.
naive tusk
Foxy is on a roll š„³
kindred skiff
@dry ember dude thats the dream
dry ember
thanks amte
cunning urchin
Meanwhile I fail 33 heat repeatedly with Malphon even when I have everything going for me.
kindred skiff
is demeter your sugar mommy?
oblique cedar
33 heat wtf?
dry ember
yeah nyaa is one up everyone trying 33
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1045344971732769128/3DD35E933DE29820C8370F0A3E4B66AF85BF53BA/ We who are about to die salute you.
main osprey
I think it got buried, but: How does SF work with GY's spin attack?
cunning urchin
I just need to not play like an idiot vs Hades.
main osprey
Support Fire*
mystic vale
I really doubt I'm going to test it, Swan.
main osprey
Not for you, I'm curious as well
cunning urchin
@main osprey just triggers once when you attack. Definitely doesn't trigger on every tic from the spin.
mystic vale
Charging spin is standing still a full second (I have the fast spin) is .99 seconds longer than I think I want to be standing still.
main osprey
That's all lol
cunning urchin
Works like that on everything else, too.
tepid ridge
Support fire is wildly unreliable but can be solid.
cunning urchin
@dry ember I gave up my last attempt 1~2 minutes in after not getting Divine Dash after 2 rerolls and losing a DD to Bruiser Puller Wretched Thugs 2 chambers later lol.
naive tusk
Puller perk OP
cunning urchin
I find Divine Strike doesn't cut it once I reach Asphodel. Need Divine Dash.
wide plover
does seed stay the same if you change weapons/keepsakes/pact?
cunning urchin
One bad room with Speeder Inferno-Bombers and no Divine Dash on Malphon hurts a lot.
mystic vale
No such thing as too much Demeter.
dry ember
@wide plover yes, if you choose to give up
naive tusk
@wide plover It stays the same unless you change to a god's keepsake.
dry ember
let's say first boon is Zeus gives you Epic Dash Epic Attack Rare Special
and you give up
swap to Arte keepsake
your first boon will also be Epic Dash Epic Attack Rare Special
wide plover
that's cool
naive tusk
Actually, no. I tried that once and it changed...
naive tusk
For example, someone was offering me Epic cast in my 1st chamber so I was like "Ok, cool. Let's change to Artemis." I did and Artemis offered me Common True Shot....
dry ember
did you cahnge mirror settings?
naive tusk
They will offer the same boons, but the rarity will change if you found a boon in the 1st chamber without a god keepsake.
Nope.
mighty ermine
it usually stays the same but i've had it change before as well like with peach; not sure why. i know i notice it changing more if i mess with heat before going in
cunning urchin
@mighty ermine you also had Divine Dash when you cleared with Malphon on 32+, right?
dry ember
ok yes
naive tusk
(I hope someone understood what I said)
mighty ermine
yeah, and i think +1 dash from hermes
mighty ermine
this was my victory screen for ref mewmew https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/715997460929052682/20200529133616_1.jpg
cunning urchin
I'm genuinely curious if anybody has cleared that high with Malphon without Divine Dash.
dry ember
alright, ceteris paribus, save reloading will mostly stay the same
cunning urchin
Tidal Dash?
mighty ermine
drunken dash i think now?
cunning urchin
With bombs being dropped right in front of your feet so much after kills etc., Divine Dash just seems almost like a requirement to not get hit by those.
mighty ermine
i just really liked when dio's dash was called nasty dash
cunning urchin
Oh I see. So basically circumventing Malphon's attack range by just going for Dash damage.
mighty ermine
i feel like a heavily invested poseidon setup with his dash as the star could work if everything aligned
would probably need extra hermes dashes to be truly effective, though
cunning urchin
That's also circumventing its attack range lol.
Or do you mean with Tempest Strike, too?
mighty ermine
absolutely, poseidon dash splashes are huge
i think tempest strike just wouldn't be good at all on malphon, especially at high heat
even if you went for sea storm
cunning urchin
Yeah, probably not.
mighty ermine
especially with poseidon's attack % being the second lowest among the %-based gods
it's really neat though how his special is the second highest %
cunning urchin
He has really good tier 2 boons, though.
mighty ermine
for sure
cunning urchin
Tempest Flourish is very poor on Demeter Aspect, at least. A lot of hits will regularly miss due to knockback.
mighty ermine
i had a GY special-centric run last night that had tempest flourish with wave pounding and rupture, which was definitely felt during bosses
along with sea storm and a litany of T2 zeus boons activating upon that
dry ember
as in it wasn't effective against bosses?
mighty ermine
no it was very effective
dry ember
oh lol
cunning urchin
Talos in general seems particulary poor with Benefits Package 2 enabled.
mighty ermine
wave pounding boosts knockback-based moves against bosses specifically
that with poseidon's base special % being surprisingly good, and a chaos special boon
it went pretty hard
yeah i honestly don't like talos much
doesn't suit my playstyle
cunning urchin
I suspect Slicing Shot + Talos can be very strong. But you can't have BP because pulling in Pullers or Bruisers is just suicide lol.
mighty ermine
yeah that would absolutely exacerbate one of the problems i have with talos
how the pull just doesn't stagger
especially so with armored BP foes
oof
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot + Talos could also be a lot of fun.
Just pull things into your blizzards.
mighty ermine
into the Danger Zone with all of you
cunning urchin
Yeah! And they take +40% damage, too.
stoic thicket
It's incredible, I've tried a spin build on the spear so much and I have never, not once, got both of the spin attack hammer boons. One or the other, but never both of them.
mighty ermine
exactly, basically Zag ringing a boxing bell and saying "you're in my arena now buddy, and you take damage constantly, good luck"
cunning urchin
I kind of want to do a low heat run just to test that now.
Stygian Soul or Infernal?
mighty ermine
i'd say probably stygian and go for well casts until you can get a chaos +1
or fully loaded
cunning urchin
Hmmm. Infernal, though, would let me burst bosses without any extra casts.
mighty ermine
right, i mean mostly in terms of consistent damage, since stygian edges out infernal even with just the base 1 if you're constantly firing on cooldown
but burst could definitely be fun too
especially if you had dual cast blizzard shot
that would be ridiculous
cunning urchin
Dead enemies drop bloodstones immediately, and it will take me some time to get the Duo anyway.
mighty ermine
yeah, the main thing is just flood shot pre-duo lodging and having to wait for it on bosses other than say, hydra adds
but for regular enemies that's definitely solid
cunning urchin
Malphon still does good damage, either way.
mighty ermine
hmm... bone hourglass +cast stacking on infernal, while going for chaos casts
that would be some truly outlandish burst if you got blizz shot and dual shot
cunning urchin
Poseidon keepsake > Demeter keepsake > Hourglass?
mighty ermine
that sounds like probably the ideal way to do that yeah honestly
cunning urchin
Perhaps Arrowhead, too. But the odds for Dual Cast seem a bit low.
mighty ermine
yeah, dual cast is more of a hopeful bonus, probably
cunning urchin
Yep.
wide plover
does dual cast affect shard damage?
mighty ermine
and art may not even be in the run's main boon pool
cunning urchin
Lately, I spend a lot more time theorycrafting than actually playing lol.
I always end up doing that, though. Same in fighting games.
Luckily, good strategy can work well in Hades without too much practice.
mighty ermine
yeah, i find hades is very flexible both in favor of pre-planned runs as well as solid play allowing for almost anything to work decently well
dry ember
then go on discord and complain theorycraft
finally give up since i'm not good enough lol
cunning urchin
I would still do a lot better if I practiced more and strategized less.
turbid arch
I am on a permanent inner turmoil when it comes to Talos Aspect.
It is a pure melee weapon, so being able to pull enemies in should be strong
but so many enemies can just murder you when they get close, so you might dig your own grave there. Then there is of course the case of bosses, who are there very own topic in that regard.
Then there is the fact, that the Talos damage is not affected by your special at all, neither in damage nor in special effects.
Then there is the factor that pulling then specialling an enemy takes time
but you get that delicous 40% extra damage on attacks and casts
stoic thicket
That feeling when you are gunning for Merciful End on Zag fists, and get it at the Tartarus miniboss...
dry ember
ā¤ļø
novel prawn
Hey, Just wanted to check something: Support fire boon only sends out one shot for each attack/special/cast... so if you hit multiple foes with an attack, you only fire one support arrow which goes to a single mob, right?
dry ember
yes I think so
stoic thicket
Otherwise that would be godlike with Chiron bow + Relentless Volley.
gaunt tundra
it is godlike with the gun though
mossy breach
just got Blizzard Shot and Fully loaded with Hera bow. Disgusting damage
novel prawn
Ok, thx
true pilot
just got
Blizzard Shot andFully loaded with Hera bow. Disgusting damage?
novel prawn
varatha zagreus aspect
thank god I got divine dash tho
somehow I made it without losing a DD
proven robin
Ah, Special might help too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2113931028 Meantime, I just finished this. Yeah, still having fun with Delta Chamber.
Also had Pressure Points leveled up to +8% critical chance.
mossy breach
yep Hades got obliterated . https://gfycat.com/bothimpracticalhornedviper
proven robin
....HOW. How did you get nine of those????
neon fiber
chaos boons and artemis leggy boon i assume
mossy breach
and 1 font
stoic thicket
Two chaos boons, artemis legendary + charon?
proven robin
That is terrifying.
neon fiber
yeah it's still really spooky
stoic thicket
Yeah, ol' daddy-o did not stand a snowballs chance in hell against that.
hollow minnow
oh my gosh I beat the final boss, and, for the first time ever, I DIDN'T EVEN LOSE A SINGLE DEATH DEFIANCE! That's never happened to me before!!!! I can't believe it!!!!!!!!
proven robin
Congratulations! Well done.
cunning urchin
Not quite 9 casts, but this build was a lot of fun, too. https://imgur.com/a/gHopevX
proven robin
Eyyyyy!
cunning urchin
What's Minotaur's Toughness? They both died in the same hit lol.
stoic thicket
Mino's Toughness is >400 health.
stoic thicket
The wiki has a page on those things.
cunning urchin
I've never found that page anywhere lol.
stoic thicket
proven robin
I believe so? Been a while since I could put it together, though.
mossy breach
it doesnt
cunning urchin
No pages link to Run Clear Messages.
Yeah, that's awful.
stoic thicket
Yup, I got that once.
dry ember
@mossy breach what did you use to record that?
wide plover
are there any youtube channels of high heat players besides haelian and daddy degrand?
with commentary explaining why decisions are made certain way, not just silent vods of runs
mossy breach
I used the Geforce experience one
dry ember
Thanks!
smoky wolf
OK, can somebody else take a look at this clip from the boss fight I just did and tell me if it seems like BS to them or not? I dashed through a shockwave and took 42 damage and lost a DD. Happened like 3 times during the fight and cost me the run.
dry ember
yeah ill hit that bug report button
or just summit in feedback i guess
this is bs agreed
leaden hare
I don't think this is normal either
smoky wolf
ok thanks guys, i'll post it in feedback
since i'm back at home now and probably wouldn't help to hit f10 now
dry ember
wait
stoic thicket
Kinda noticeable that your DD got lost at the moment it hit the position where your first dash was, at the Dionysus dash blast.
dry ember
technically your first dash bring you right to the hitbox of the wave
but the delayed damage isn't right
still worth a feedback, even if it this just 'justifed' as you got hit
floral maple
ok, so like, is shady the best companion? or is it subjective?
stoic thicket
I wouldn't want to use any of the others right now. Bouldy is a) the bro-est of the bros, and b) brings so much utility that he's hard to say no to. On-demand healing in this game is extremely powerful.
true pilot
Shady offers sustain, which is a rare commodity in the game.
dry ember
cry in max lasting consequences
true pilot
I'm partial to Batty, though.
silver solstice
This run started weak with my first time doing the multi-bomb but once I figured out how to concentrate fire [Redacted] was a poor boy who couldn't move
smoky wolf
Yeah, I used Rib for a really long time but as soon as I unlocked Shady I just use him now
dry ember
nice!
true pilot
Meg hits hard and hits fast. I love using her to skip Theseus' last phase.
smoky wolf
@true pilot i like skipping his last phase - I usually gun for artemis or aphrodite calls and save a full charge to nuke him when he does his call
true pilot
Yeah. I just prefer having Meg because I'm not always going to pick a call just for that.
Hades usually doesn't require a companion for me.
smoky wolf
Those calls are awesome anyway, though but yeah. I always found Meg a bit unreliable as to whether she'd hit what I was aiming for
true pilot
Thanatos does more damage, but his windup is so much longer that most things move away.
It works on Theseus specifically because he stands still during his call.
But Meg is more useful on all other fights.
smoky wolf
yeah i used thanatos like 2 runs and then shelved him because he takes way too long to actually attack
mossy breach
I'd use dusa more if the petrify lasted a bit longer on bosses
true pilot
I'd use dusa more if the petrify lasted a bit longer on bosses worked.
It is very underwhelming.
cunning urchin
Fun times. https://imgur.com/a/bjf7ctp
cunning urchin
Lost 1 DD to a +400% urn lol.
cunning urchin
It was that or beams. I should have let the beam hit lol.
floral maple
i love excalibur
dry ember
you like to live dangerously i see
floral maple
the big numbers feel satisfying
cunning urchin
Of course coin purse. More boons.
sudden dagger
Re: sandboxes, what if there was a way to summon Skelly after boss battles? Like at the same room where you can change keepsakes. So after you've earned a certain loadout you have a chance to experiment with it
cunning urchin
Authority is overrated.
floral maple
i like to go for the diamond/titan blood, makes it a bit more difficult but i dont have to worry about convenience fee
dry ember
Persuasion is underwhelming
cunning urchin
@dry ember š« you take that back.
turbid arch
Persuasion is amazing if you want to work Chaos like a horse.
Authority is amazing if you want to get as many god boons as possible.
cunning urchin
Yeah, they're both decent. I think Authority is very overrated here in this server relative to Persuasion, though.
turbid arch
Yes and no.
Apparently, not everyone knows how to use Authority to full benefit.
And you also get way more Authoritys in total compared to Persuasions.
It's 10 against.....4 or 5 from the mirror I believe?
stoic thicket
Persuasion would be the greatest thing since sliced bread if it worked on hammers.
turbid arch
I see no reason why you can't honestly.
floral maple
how are you to persuade a hammer
turbid arch
Then again, I also see no reason as for why you do not get fated authority/persuasion for keys on high heated runs either.
The game developers sometimes act in mysterious ways.
@floral maple How do you persuade a pool full of purple goop?
Or red goop for that matter.
cunning urchin
Would be better, of course. But I honestly don't need it to reroll hammers.
turbid arch
I kinda do. I would definitively play it more often if it did.
wide plover
you persuade reality that it was wrong
turbid arch
I'd also say that then it would deserve the high difference in numbers.
stoic thicket
Same, if it worked on hammers I'd probably consider running them a lot more than I do now.
turbid arch
@smoky wolf That wave attack is one of the greatest annoyances in the game right now by far. BUT
There is a way.
cunning urchin
You can reroll Pools of Purging and Wells of Charon. That's something Authority can't do at all.
turbid arch
You must dash through it and not use any kind of attack, even if you think that you are already through it.
I am not sure on the details here, but my guess is that trying to attack out of a dash cancels the I-frames of your dashes early so that superdisjointed BS wave attack still hits you even if you are meters away from it.
Dash through it, wait for it to be mostly gone before you start attacking again and focus on just dashing
and pray to the gods that the devs will fix that mess some day.
silver solstice
interesting
dry ember
thing is you don't practice to overcome that
neon fiber
Iāve never had issues with the shockwaveās hitbox
silver solstice
Same
turbid arch
It is not all shockwaves. Just the one he does on the HP transition
dry ember
yeah. there is something foul in that gif
wide plover
how do you even see where zag is in relation to lasers
silver solstice
Yeah the laser's behavior around the little cliffs doesn't seem to make sense
neon fiber
That one is easy to dodge through too, i think you may have glitched
smoky wolf
well hopefully some video footage will help them take a look and fix the hitboxes
neon fiber
@wide plover you generally aim your eyes to the screen, thatās how you see it
floral maple
dear god
dry ember
now that's true pain
wide plover
oh I didn't realize
neon fiber
The worst part of the lasers are not the lasers proper, itās the pillars
floral maple
malphon becomes a game of chicken
smoky wolf
yeah, i've reported the pillars in feedback before. I mentioned it for the theseus fight but it's a bit out of whack for hades too
neon fiber
The pillars are very finicky in regards to where do they cover and where do they not
cunning urchin
Yeah, dash has invincibility, but dash-strike does not have any invincibility at all. That often hurts on Malphon because you hold attack, then let go and dash to evade something, but, I guess because of the input buffer, you get an immediate dash-strike with no invincibility at all.
wide plover
I'm talking about when you try to sit on hades to avoid lasers, I can't see where my character is
dry ember
that's why divine dash is good with malphon most weapons
turbid arch
If you sit on Hades trying to avoid his laser sprinkle, the only thing you need to live is:
"Don't cast"
neon fiber
So the lasers are going behind a pillar and hope you didnāt get in the wrong angle so they donāt noclip through it and eat your hp
Also lmao
turbid arch
The cast has enough throwback to it that it can knock you out of the safezone into the lasers.
cunning urchin
@dry ember yeah, exactly. That's one big reason. The other is explosions and stuff when fighting things point-blank.
turbid arch
And then you get roasted
dry ember
are you sure casting actually knock you back or just proc an animation?
cunning urchin
Malphon is great when dodging the laser beams like that; you can just sit on him and hold attack down.
turbid arch
Using your cast does an animation that moves Zagreus a bit backwards.
neon fiber
Aye, casting should nudge you back for a bit
turbid arch
That bit of moving backwards is enough to get you into the lasers in almost every case.
dry ember
Hades EM4 they just add a touchbox
turbid arch
Hades EM4 actually scares me somewhat fiercly.
I expect there to be some funny dialogs if you beat him like that.
neon fiber
EM4 removes all the pillars and adds a third phase where heās always passively firing his lazors
turbid arch
He also spawns in constant armored enemies
All of which have extra tankiness and whatever other effect inconveniences you the most at the time.
He also summons the other bosses to help him out.
neon fiber
Also there will deffo be some banter on EM4, EMs 1 and 3 have some dialogue so iād be surprised if they didnāt do any for 4
turbid arch
And when you have him down on his knees, Thanatos shows up and defeats you for him.
neon fiber
nah, Than would never outright strike him
cunning urchin
I wonder how he would explain essentially holding back before when he's stronger on EM4.
turbid arch
He will just show up and be like "Sorry, Zag, but I need that paycheck"
wide plover
he started a lifting regimen
turbid arch
Zagreus will gargle, moan and reawake in a certain pool of blood
neon fiber
I think EM4 will be less him holding back and more him busting out something from the armory or getting back into shape
Maybe heāll take a rejuvenating potion or something so heās back on his prime
turbid arch
Or he will just ride Cerberus into battle.
neon fiber
maybe heāll grab an infernal arm for himself or something
mossy breach
he changes weapon, Exagryph with spread fire
dry ember
with dash attacks only
turbid arch
Or he pays Charon some Obols to help him out in the fight. With Charon actually being the Gunslinger from Enter The Gungeon.
Or he brings every Titan Slaying Weapon that you left in the courtyard.
neon fiber
EM4 has him dual teaming with ||Nyx||
mighty ermine
"how do you like it, boy" while dash-strike spread firing at zagreus, killing him almost instantly
mossy breach
Meg and theseus sits in his shoulder and helps him. Hydra is near the water
turbid arch
Gotta be honest here:
neon fiber
Good luck fighting ||the two sovereigns of the underworld||
turbid arch
I think I'd rather have him dash striking than spam-casting
neon fiber
In all seriousness,maybe heāll just break out something out of the armory like he did with Theseus
Power Armor Hades
neon fiber
maybe he is the macedonian
turbid arch
While flexing his arms, with two fury sisters sitting on them
cunning urchin
@turbid arch do you find Malphon on 32+ extremely reliant on Divine Dash, too? The only effective builds I can think of without Divine Dash essentially circumvent its attack range by not actually relying on Attack/Special at all, i.e., cast or dash builds like Tidal Dash.
turbid arch
I only did Malphon 32 once and it was a Blizzard Shot run.
Did not plan for it but was very happy when it happened because that ended up making the win fairly easy.
Had a couple tries before that one that all went fairly horribly. Malphon is just not my kind of weapon.
cunning urchin
The difference in my runs when I get Divine Dash early vs late or not at all is huge, and I do start all my runs with the Owl Pendant. I take massive damage from instant inferno-bombs.
turbid arch
The triple bomb drop attack in Asphodel is some garbage.
Especially if the inferno bombers are fast.
I swear
benefits package makes EVERYTHING worse
I feel like almost all of my grievances I have/had with the current update can be boiled down to Benefits Package.
dry ember
that's kind of the point of pacts yeah
i complain about TD a lot, but in the end of the day, it's me who picked it lol
cunning urchin
I'm hoping for some serious rebalancing of BP in June.
turbid arch
I do not have a lot of problem with other pack opptions either.
Some of them could use some small tweaks here and there.
cunning urchin
I can see you don't use Malphon much.
turbid arch
Like, the one that reduces your mirror boon access. I feel like it should be 1 heat = Mirror option removed instead of 2 heat for 3 options
cunning urchin
Puller is some serious garbage with Malphon.
dry ember
I was about to mention the puller
but at least if you can get pass the armor
you can stun lock the enemy
true pilot
Speeder is a monster, too.
dry ember
bruiser makes that a million time worse
cunning urchin
Puller + Bruiser with Malphon hurts a whole lot.
true pilot
Speeder Numbskulls are a nightmare.
cunning urchin
I think Speeder is okay unless it's Inferno-Bombers.
dry ember
I think the problem is with Bruiser, Puller is somewhat tolerable
cunning urchin
Instant bombs are broken.