Stygian Soul lets you cast more often. Bloodstones can often drop in inaccessible or dangerous locations; Stygian Soul doesn't need to deal with that.
#h1-builds-and-combat
cunning urchin
inner heath
For me it's 3 cast build if you're going Artemis cast, 1 cast if you're going hunting blades or festive fog, and irrelevant if you're not going those
dry ember
Yeah it's fairly weapon dependent to me. Hera and Poseidon most of the time I use 3 bloodstones.
And Archilles
The rest Styg
true pilot
Theoretically.
Hera makes lodged casts drop in 5 seconds
and you get 3 of them with infernal soul.
If you round up the time it takes to pick them back up to 6 seconds, the effective time cost per cast is 2 seconds.
Stygian is always locked at 3, unless you get more stones to use.
cunning urchin
I genuinely forgot about the ammo drop time on Hera Aspect.
true pilot
My feel on it is that if you want to focus on your weapon, Stygian is better. Fling it off and don't think about it.
dry ember
Don't worry. No one upgrades Hera that far anyhow
cunning urchin
I've maxed out Hera Aspect before you were even playing the game, I think. What do you mean. 
These younglings smh.
true pilot
It is an improvement.
cunning urchin
I like Stygian Soul a whole lot more with anything that isn't True Shot or Blizzard Shot.
Imagine having to pick up casts again in Asphodel like it wasn't post Nighty Night.
true pilot
Just dodge the lava! :P
dry ember
Who gives Blizzard Shot?
cunning urchin
It's less that and more where even did my cast go.
dry ember
I thought Demeter gives C beam
true pilot
Poseidon Cast + Demeter Duo
true pilot
If I could reliably guarantee at least +1 cast from Chaos, I'm pretty sure I'd never go back to Infernal Soul... but all of the times I forgot I was on Stygian and had a sad, sad cast build were very depressing.
dry ember
Almostas if red bloodstones on red background isn't a nice combo.
cunning urchin
Infernal Soul is basically 1 cast every 5 seconds. Stygian Soul is 1 cast every 3 seconds. Even without extra cast, you're better off in the long run.
true pilot
That ignores the use-cases.
cunning urchin
Also, you can get extra casts from the shop and guarantee Chaos gates.
narrow halo
Whats the damage reduction cap ?
cunning urchin
Ignores the use cases? In a cast build, I'm throwing my cast any chance I get. 1 every 3 seconds is way better DPS than 1 every 5.
true pilot
Consider True Shot with a Hera bow - I can load 3 stones, instantly phase Meg/Alecto/Tisiphone, recover the stones and reload while they're in the screaming bubble, and be ready to instantly phase them again in one attack.
wide plover
what's the third entry from the end in "wanton ransacking" prophecy?
cunning urchin
Yes, we've already said that Hera Aspect is different.
true pilot
If I can't stack that burst into a single big hit, I still have to fight them and run around dodging like I would on a normal bow.
But it's similar with every weapon.
If you have a room full of skulls, you one-tap each one and immediately get the cast back
instead of having to wait 3 seconds per skull.
cunning urchin
The dominating cast build on high heat at the moment uses Stygian Soul and Trippy Shot into Ice Wine.
true pilot
And that's fair, since you can't improve the recovery time for the fog, but you still only get 1 patch at a time (2, technically, because of overlapping durations) unless you get extra casts.
And my point is that getting extra casts isn't a given.
cunning urchin
Casts that lodge are mostly used in builds that focus on Attack or Special.
true pilot
Casts from the well want you to be running hourglass, and that means not using a god relic to force the right boons. Chaos is not guaranteed, and Artemis' requires playing most of the run without her legendary, if it ever shows up at all.
on small rooms in Styx, 3 casts can be more than enough to clear the encounter before you need to think about retrieving them, etc. DPS calculations have to kind of take into account the S part of the acronym, and I find that there are way too many cases where I benefit more from a higher burst deleting a priority target, than a theoretical higher sustained damage that requires me to stay in the fight for longer.
edgy sparrow
burst is good for clearing rooms, but sustained damage is usually better for boss encounters
cunning urchin
Small rooms in Styx don't matter.
dry ember
I think DPS in general just got reduced to mean Damage
lament coral
well, you should watch out for big rats and traps
but aside from those, yeah, small rooms are just filler
true pilot
They still cost time as part of TD, though.
It'd be the same as me saying that bosses don't matter because the fight terms are always the same and I can perfectly handle their patterns (I can't, this is just an example argument).
And it's not just the small rooms, minibosses also factor in.
Being able to delete the shield generators in the Barge of Death before they can protect anything, for one, is a time gain.
And that's the kind of thing that benefits the most from bursts.
narrow halo
who uses anything other than bone hourglass? am curies what other passive can best it
true pilot
Like, I like Stygian, I run it a lot. My point is, if I want to focus on the Cast as my primary victory condition, I sure as hell find it more consistent to guarantee multiple shots.
neon fiber
literally anything else depending on the kind of build you're going for
true pilot
Purse for Tartarus is an easy pick. And so are most of the god (not Hermes) relics, to make sure you find boons that work with your strategy.
Spearhead is the best defense for Styx with all the lasers and poison flying around.
Acorn and Tooth are also very much worth considering, depending on your confidence level against bosses.
narrow halo
After the first world i feel like nothing can beat stacking attack damage or cast damage
true pilot
Forcing gods is probably the biggest run-maker you have currently in the game.
tepid ridge
@wide plover to answer your earlier question, that enemy on the list is the ||dire snakestone|| according to my game.
wide plover
where does it live?
tepid ridge
||Styx||. You can turn on middle management of you’re feeling spicy to meet more minibosses and finish that prophecy faster.
narrow halo
4 hours ago i did a run with 2 add cast from well of charon and 30+30+30 plus a 80+93 damage to cast from chaos on ares cast i just stomped everything even the final boss
tepid ridge
I really need to actually lean on well builds more. I don’t think I’ve ever actually equipped bone hourglass lmao
narrow halo
It works better on the latest weapon
dry ember
I only equip it after I bought the items from the well
true pilot
I don't think so.
true pilot
I tend to equip it for Elysium, the buy stuff on the hallway to Styx, then take it off.
narrow halo
You need to keep an eye on keys more than the wells themselves though
I got all the buffs i need from the reroll
true pilot
the increased time stays if you buy stuff before you unequip it.
dry ember
@opal hollow per your feedback, there is already a "Give Up" feature that let you do that
true pilot
^ Problem with that, it retains the seed.
opal hollow
^
narrow halo
And also keep more than 200 with you all the time
dry ember
It lets you restart the run from the beginning at the courtyard
Ok just use cast randomly
true pilot
But what if I don't want to restart with the exact same seed?
dry ember
To mess up the seed
opal hollow
Usually i just kill myself on the lava
dry ember
The only thing you can't randomize is the beginning.boon
The seed sequence can already be altered via casting
narrow halo
How you guys screen capture you end screen ?
dry ember
F12
true pilot
windows key + print screen. >_>
dry ember
If you are on Steam
narrow halo
am on steam
dry ember
And go to the screenshot folder
narrow halo
Thank you
true pilot
winkey + Prtscr generates a file in /[User]/Pcitures/Screenshots of the current display. Since it works at all times, I never really use Steam's
On Windows 10, I should say. I don't know when this was introduced.
dry ember
I think Steam Overlay messes with capturing software.
cunning urchin
I almost never use coin purse lol.
cunning urchin
I guess it's okay? I don't spend much money until Styx usually.
proven robin
I use Coin Purse as my initial Keepsake for most runs just so I can try and ensure my Styx buying spree can include the Diamond or Blood.
cunning urchin
I do use it sometimes before Styx when I think the money will help me most.
Which is very rare.
brave cobalt
It seems to me that the perk in the mirror, which gives a +2 throw, is rather weak compared to its counterpart, which restores the throw after 3 seconds.
The very first perk that gives the bonus damage of the first attack against the enemy is pretty useless, because almost always a player runs with a perk, where the first 1-2 blows to the enemy fall in blue armor.
cunning urchin
Getting the right boons in Tartarus does a lot more for me.
neon fiber
it depends on the cast imo
with some casts you'll benefit more from being able to deploy 3+ of them at once and with some others you'll benefit more from being able to continuously spam them
wide plover
The very first perk that gives the bonus damage of the first attack against the enemy is pretty useless
it's bonus damage vs undamaged foes, so it should work for the entirety of their shield(s)
dry ember
Also, not every weapons and aspects can use Damage Control. And with front loaded damage weapons (read bow), bonus damage to undamaged foes mean you can one shot many enemies.
So the first mirror upgrade alternative is far from useless. A better argument you can make is that it is less versatile.
cunning urchin
so it should work for the entirety of their shield(s)
It only works for the first hit on armored enemies (i.e., first hit after Damage Control hearts).
wide plover
why? they're still full health even on half shield
mighty ermine
very underwhelming on bosses versus shadow presence as well, which can put in work throughout the whole encounter
kind of okay on hydra, i suppose
cunning urchin
Fiery Presence is a good consistent DPS boost over a whole run. I go back and forth.
Lately been using Shadow Presence more.
restive solar
I use shadow presence because I almost always take athena exposed boons
so I'm already going for those backshots
true pilot
I use Fiery because it's more consistent for clear and I only have to care about my positioning in terms of staying safe, not in terms of angle of attack.
More often than not, I go entire boss fights without landing a single backstab anyway, so Fiery puts more work.
edgy sparrow
I don't really pay attention to either tbh
if it procs it procs, but it doesn't really make or break me either way
dry ember
Fiery on bow is ok, if you are feeling frisky, take it on Excalibur too
cunning urchin
Currently, I think on high heat Shadow Presence is just better for almost all Attack/Special builds. Fiery Presence probably for Cast.
mystic vale
Sigh. Just once, I want Zagreus to ask Asterius "Hey man, what's your beef?"
cunning urchin
Rude.
proven robin
...BOOOOOOOOO
mystic vale
Missed you too, Mewmew.
cunning urchin
I was actually happy until you rudely arrived.
Very happy.
Well, except the dog was here, too. That could have been better.
mystic vale
Yeah, I know, I'm the worst.
main osprey
You are a knucklehead
dry ember
Excuse me, don't blame me for what seems to be a you problem.
Happiness comes from within.
main osprey
I'm not even sure that you're our knucklehead
mystic vale
Well, I keep getting caught.
cunning urchin
Not from me. I only catch ||Scyllascions||. Spoilered because I'm told you've never seen those.
🎣
mystic vale
Yeah, if only my parents had the sense to have me more recently so this game came out before I had arthritis...
restive solar
I'm a few rooms into a new run, and I've got an aspect of zeus + blade rifts build going already
spin to win
mystic vale
What was I thinking, being born to parents like that?
dry ember
Garen your way through Hades.
restive solar
haha yesss
and I've already got artemis special, so hunting blades will probably be an easy grab
also got an extra cast from chaos, with regen cast perk
dry ember
Good luck! Post victory screen!
dry ember
Even better!
restive solar
the visual clutter is kinda insane here
I keep losing track of my shield, and I'm very used to using zeus aspect
PFFT
should I grab a third regenerating cast, or +76% special damage from chaos
true pilot
Is it too disingenuous if I were to post feedback about how nice it would be to ||add fishing spots to Chaos rooms||? Like, seriously. Only reason I know about them is the wiki. Earnest feedback would be more along the lines of ||make Chaos fishing spots more common, please||.
dry ember
I think a couple of other people have already posted about that with 60+ upvotes
So I think your feedback is already covered, although it doesn't hurt (or help imo) in summiting another one.
true pilot
Aye...
cunning urchin
Don't submit it if it's already covered. Just vote on it.
restive solar
within reason. There's hundreds of feedback suggestions made, it is sometimes unfeasible to know if a suggestion has already been covered
raw violet
There is a search function in discord
mystic vale
Playing Chiron Aspect and doing way more damage with Tidal Dash than anything.
dry ember
Something is wrong 😂
restive solar
nah tidal dash is great
cunning urchin
No, within Discord. I don't think you can upvote Hades feedback in Reason.
@main osprey thank you, thank you, you're far too kind.
stoic thicket
Chiron Aspect with Poseidon is a good combo though.
mystic vale
Har har game. Elysium was 70% shieldbearers while I've got the bow. :/
main osprey
you're clearly not thinking with portals
restive solar
I'm having trouble pasting screenshots in here for some reason
raw violet
you have to upload it somewhere else and post a link
main osprey
Imgur is my go-to
raw violet
direct uploads are disabled
magic dagger
just DM some unsuspecting soul and then copy the link from there
main osprey
Nice!!
dry ember
No timer smh my head
restive solar
lost a life to fatal inattention and jumping into multiple traps with extra trap damage
rose wren
IS THERE ANY CHANCE SOMEONE WILL GIFT ME DISCORD NITRO
cunning urchin
I don't think Greatshields are that bad with Coronacht.
dry ember
How can people compare how epic of a gamer they are to you
restive solar
haha
main osprey
Shields aren't that bad if you have chain shot :P
restive solar
I can only imagine how good this run is gonna get, I still have an ares keepsake available
and 4 rerolls
main osprey
Dang, nice
restive solar
wait I'm stupid, already used the keepsake
main osprey
Also, what happens if you have a duo like that and sell the base cast? Or swap it out?
restive solar
I've always wondered
raw violet
it stops working
main osprey
Aight
cunning urchin
You have an expensive brick in your boon list.
main osprey
XD
mossy breach
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1057729584623700254/D0FC2FFF6EB9F37F3D39CCAA8AB50D2520C90D09/ Died shortly after, the chaos downside was too much 😦
cunning urchin
Ah yes, the Chaos fishing mod. I don't have that installed.
main osprey
Hahaha
magic dagger
Even the chaos common fish is worth like 2 diamonds
mossy breach
it gave me 1 blood
restive solar
I found a ray of some kind there once
cunning urchin
Is that Calisthenics Program at 2 I'm seeing? Why would you do that to yourself? 
raw violet
but 2 diamonds = 1 blood
restive solar
Jury Summons is just extra fun
raw violet
it's an equivalent trade
main osprey
What does CP do?
restive solar
extra life I think
raw violet
+health
restive solar
for enemies
main osprey
Equivalent Exchange does not apply to human transmutation, such as blood
magic dagger
cp is 25% per tick, right
restive solar
but jury summons is extra enemies, and hades is fun because you get to kill enemies. Therefore, jury summons is simply extra fun
dry ember
No TD, are you even gaming bro
raw violet
but in this particular video game, it does
restive solar
I don't like tight deadline, personally. My runs could definitely make it within the deadline, but I don't play to be timed
cunning urchin
I thought this was a dating sim?
main osprey
it is if you're not a coward
dry ember
Yeah but you can get rejected
raw violet
SGG has a recent aphro tweet, so you're not wrong
magic dagger
did someone say aphro best gril?
main osprey
Lmao
dry ember
Nah my friend has a Weber
mossy breach
best girl is ||the supportive shade in elysium||
dry ember
It's a better grill than Aphro
All yo are so wrong
Best girl is St. Patty
Have you seen them waxed legs?
restive solar
best girl is the friends we made along the way
magic dagger
grill
@dry ember please, there is only one "L" in gril
mystic vale
Gotta get Huge Catch this run. Wheeeeeeeee.
dry ember
Grill gril what's the difference
magic dagger
moar fish is good
dry ember
Weber still > Aphro
magic dagger
eeeeeyyy
nice
raw violet
need some dual cast action now
restive solar
zeus aspect, artemis special, +special damage from chaos, two regenerating casts, all blade boons including hunting blades
spin and win is online
way ahead of you krasher
cunning urchin
I'd have cleared 32 sooner if I'd gotten Vicious Cycle in Styx.
Or if Hades hadn't phase tanked my Hunting Blades.
raw violet
can you even get lightning rod with stygian?
cunning urchin
No.
raw violet
i should run stygian more often
restive solar
stygian best cast
magic dagger
if you get even a single grasp boon stygian blows the other one out of the water
you can cast as often as you need to
restive solar
just faced two straight rooms of hasted, beamlinked suicide chariots
cunning urchin
Or just a well before a boss.
mystic vale
Sea Storm with Aspect of Caledfwich. This should be fun.
stoic thicket
Chiron with Sea Storm is awesome.
mystic vale
Nah, Caledfwich. The big spoilery sword.
raw violet
arguable which cast option is better
mystic vale
I enabled it with Tidal Flourish/Zeus' Aid.
Which is a bit of a shame, I'm running Underworld Customs and was gonna sell Aid. I guess I technically still could since it's the KB that triggers it.
magic dagger
with three grasp boons i've had 8 ice wine clouds active simultaneously. Stygian soul allows ultimate crowd control
mystic vale
Since I'm just spamming special + dash anyhow, extra lightning bolts are gravy.
cunning urchin
Do you have Super Nova or Double Nova?
raw violet
i'm not asking for advice, i understand the benefits of stygian, but there are situations where i prefer one vs the other
restive solar
I just added dual shot to the spinning madness
dry ember
Bruh lol
proven robin
OH BOY
dry ember
Save some boons for the rest of us.
magic dagger
do you have blade dash?
magic dagger
not that you need it, but moar blade rifts can only be better
mystic vale
Not yet. First hammer gave me two Attack options and the DS.
proven robin
Blade dash is fun with Malphon.
cunning urchin
DS? There is no hammer with those initials. 
stoic thicket
Aphro would be great if it'd be reliable. Weak is something that you really only need to apply once in a while.
restive solar
I play aggressively, so I'm not a fan of dashes that have only hitboxes at the beginning of the dash
magic dagger
blade dash is actually awesome once you have all the blade boons
proven robin
Also, Blade Dash is hilarious in Elysium with Malphon because then I can just kill those tiny explody chariots by running away.
raw violet
you know, spreadfire, it's dash-strike the boon/hammer
restive solar
I don't think blade rift is BAD, I just don't like it. It doesn't fit into my playstyle
cunning urchin
I kill Flame Wheels by running right into them with Malphon. (100% serious.)
mystic vale
Now I have the option of Double Nova or Super Nova.
dry ember
Which aspect?
mystic vale
Spoiler.
cunning urchin
Super Nova if you want to hit many things with Tempest Flourish.
raw violet
ARTHUR
dry ember
Double Nova
raw violet
you can say arthur
dry ember
On Athur
mystic vale
Yes, I know. I don't want to.
dry ember
Super Nova on the rest
mystic vale
Just because I can spoil, doesn't mean I want to.
dry ember
I kill Flame Wheels by running right into them with Malphon.
But why
mystic vale
I can also steal candy from children. That doesn't make it a nice thing to do.
raw violet
cause athena
mighty ermine
it isn't considered a spoiler in the gameplay channel though, is all
in the discussion channel, perhaps
mystic vale
And I consider it a spoiler because I got it spoiled and did not like the experience.
dry ember
You can send snail mail, or you can send email.
cunning urchin
Double Nova might not even hit both times with knockback on it. I'd rather pick Super Nova.
dry ember
You don't have to send email
mystic vale
So I'm being considerate of others.
dry ember
People just prefer email
mystic vale
I know, I'm the worst.
Good point, Mewmew. Forgot about that momentarily. Super it is.
mighty ermine
you're implying that people who freely mention arthur in this channel are being inconsiderate of others
which just isn't the case
mystic vale
Yes, it is.
restive solar
I got the damage ticker on Hades somewhere over 8k with the cast build
dry ember
Does Double Nova also extent your animation?
mystic vale
I'm telling you this from my own personal experience.
cunning urchin
Let him call it what he wants lol.
mystic vale
If you disagree, you're wrong. You literally cannot tell me how I felt about it.
raw violet
but using an esoteric reference to the tale of Arthur isn't really a workaround
mystic vale
Sure it is.
mighty ermine
i'm saying that the gameplay channel allows for free discussion of later game aspects, including the name. i am in no way policing what you personally want to call it or how you felt, my dude
raw violet
since anyone who is confused by it, can look it up on google
mystic vale
Uh huh, but then they went hunting for it, and the mention itself wasn't a spoiler. Except to Welsh folks.
cunning urchin
Spoiler tag would be an easier solution, but I find it adds some flair to the channel lol.
mystic vale
And then I also specifically said "spoiler" to "Which aspect?" and you immediately spoiled it.
dry ember
Several people are typing 🍿
mystic vale
So, y'know...not helping.
Y'all're welcome to spoil whomever you like. I choose not to.
restive solar
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/698308474802536598/715273444295704656/unknown.png
not pictured: the other two blade boons, a stygian reduction time (2.5 seconds), 5 dashes, and a damage ticker on hades over 8k
raw violet
Saying Caledfwlch is equivalent to spelling out bad words in front of children or speaking in a different language
mystic vale
So don't give me crap for choosing not to be inconsiderate.
dry ember
42 streak
raw violet
i can respect that
dry ember
What are you? A serial patricide?
mystic vale
It's like using a euphemism in front of an eight year old. They don't know what it actually means. But the people I'm talking to do.
restive solar
yeah, the streak has been easy to maintain because I up the heat by one every single run
magic dagger
holy crap nice winstreak
cunning urchin
@restive solar if you're being very aggressive, I think Blade Dash might actually work very well with Malphon. It's something I intend to try.
dry ember
That's pretty sick mate
mystic vale
I do like Blade Dash + Malphon.
restive solar
I prefer the other two aspects over malphon
mystic vale
I prefer Divine Dash, but I don't complain if I get Blade.
wide plover
damn, ice wine build (+scintillating feast) on achilles spear is crazy strong. I basically 1-2 shot everything, had zero problems with theseus because shield doesn't save you from fog, and killed hades without losing one DD. And that's on +50% spear, not fully upgraded one
cunning urchin
Malphon is any Twin Fists aspect.
restive solar
oh mb
wide plover
first spear win 
mystic vale
I'm spending 85% of my time point blank with Malphon.
restive solar
Yeah Fists are my favorite weapon by FAR
mystic vale
So blades for free work fine.
restive solar
but my favorite dashes are athena, poseidon, and demeter
cunning urchin
I don't like Tidal Dash on Malphon at all.
restive solar
less good on malphon for sure
cunning urchin
@wide plover congratulations!
mighty ermine
i pretty much never like tidal dash unless i'm doing some sort of long-range rail build or something to push foes away. even then, there are better options
restive solar
D:
mighty ermine
messes with my close-range patterns
restive solar
tidal dash is the MAN
cunning urchin
It's good for Tidal Dash meme runs.
magic dagger
I got a 1.07 sec. auto reload once. Is this normal?
raw violet
not only does it mess with close range patterns but it doesn't even do keepaway very well
mighty ermine
meme runs sure, it does look fun
restive solar
it won't mess with your close range patterns if you position to knock them into the wall
knocking into wall sets up great damage, and stunlocking by holding them to the edge
dry ember
That's a big if doe
mighty ermine
that's not really optimal
restive solar
that if depends on how consistent you are with it as a player
I'm very consistent with it
raw violet
no amount knockback is gonna stop spear bois from railing you in the face
mighty ermine
i.e. dash-strike to special cancels on sword would be just made needlessly difficult with tidal dash
i just don't prefer it
raw violet
also the knockback doesn't even stagger
restive solar
that's understandable. I've just never had an issue with it personally, though it required adjustment
I find it effective for my playstyle
mighty ermine
it's fun in its own way, for sure
raw violet
i don't think it's bad
restive solar
most of my faster runs are with tidal dash
mighty ermine
and it can work for specific runs, but if i want to actually go fast
raw violet
i'm just listing off reasons i've enjoyed it less and less
mighty ermine
it only wastes time
cunning urchin
@magic dagger the boon text is just bugged for Hermes when you choose the boon. When you check the boon menu afterwards, you should see it's actually longer than that.
restive solar
the only time I've been upset with it is when I have concentrated fist hammer haha
magic dagger
thx
cunning urchin
Lately, it's almost always Divine Dash or Hunter Dash for me.
cunning urchin
I think there is a big gap between those two dashes and the rest.
restive solar
I do like hunters dash
mighty ermine
for sure, the utility of divine and the damage potential of hunter are just unmatched by the others at base
restive solar
I pretty much never ever take ares, aphro, dio, zeus dashes
raw violet
both aphro and dio could use some significant increase to their radius, i think
cunning urchin
The damage potential of Blade Dash I'm pretty sure is the highest. Just not as practical.
mighty ermine
i really want to like demeter dash, i truly do
cunning urchin
both aphro and dio could use some significant increase to their radius, i think
Yes. 100%.
raw violet
zeus dash isn't bad for damage if your build is already build for zeus
mighty ermine
but even when i deliberately try to aim it directly, dashing at an enemy, it sometimes misses anyway
it feels very inconsistent
raw violet
dashes are also highly dependent on the weapon
cunning urchin
Chill works better on other things, in my opinion. 1-2 stacks from a couple dash-strikes isn't much.
mighty ermine
it might be exacerbated by a similar thing that affects long knuckle for fists, where there's a close deadzone
raw violet
oh i saw that feedback and was wondering if anyone else noticed that
i hadn't from all my long knuckle runs but it may be playstyle or just me not noticing
cunning urchin
I can't say I've noticed any dead zone. But then I haven't used Long Knuckle as extensively as others.
mighty ermine
it's not too awful, really
mostly noticeable when you're basically overlapping the enemy
in which case non long knuckle does hit easily
magic dagger
Hestia crits are pretty tasty
mystic vale
Cool. Sea Storm and Razor Shoals and guess who has Privileged Status enabled?
raw violet
i think when i'm picking long knuckle, i'm trying to maximize the range
dry ember
Yup Hestia Deadly Strike is my fav for rail rn
magic dagger
Snipe bosses
dry ember
Or alternatively Hunter Dash and Heartbreak Strike Hestia work well too.
mighty ermine
there have been a couple times where the other options were bad like, quake cutter etc. so i took LK for the damage boost
and during moments where i don't adapt my playstyle to the range, it can happen a little
but again, not too awful
magic dagger
does hunter dash work if you dash combo arthur?
like, if I have an epic dash, will the third hit deal double damage if I dash first?
mighty ermine
no
only true dash-strikes with it count irt the dash-strike damage boost
continued combos from dashing don't benefit unfortunately
@cunning urchin i am imagining the situation you described in the feedback and laughing
because like, i guess it sort of makes sense in an absolutely cartoony way, but yeah it probably
shouldn't work like that
raw violet
i'm just trying to understand what in the coding even allows that to happen
mighty ermine
like if the hitbox extending from a wide swing goes behind zag
cunning urchin
I backstabbed a poor bloodless like that the other day lol.
dry ember
Probably the large arc swing
dry ember
Connect to to back hitbox
raw violet
is it cause they're both facing the same direction? is it the hitbox of the backswing?
dry ember
How wide is the angle for back stabbing anyway?
raw violet
if you look at skelly
he's standing on a square/rectangle
the two corners behind him represent the arc of backstab
dry ember
Gotcha
raw violet
it's pretty wide, maybe 120? maybe slightly higher
but definitely not 180
that was like a 2 minute test so take it for what you will
i didn't test range either
cunning urchin
I expect more rigor.
raw violet
well when i start my thesis on it, i'll go back for more n values
cunning urchin
Okay, that sounds good. I'm looking forward to it.
dry ember
Can I write my PhD thesis on Hades?
dry ember
That's discrimination
raw violet
Dogs go to Greendale for their PhD
cunning urchin
Is that a reference I don't get?
raw violet
it's a community reference
but apparently, true story, a dog was awarded a PhD in Sydney
cunning urchin
@dry ember I guess dogs can get a PhD after all.
novel prawn
a phd in what?
cunning urchin
In being a dog.
raw violet
hang on, i should read this article closely
dry ember
Hadesology
cunning urchin
@dry ember unfortunately you're a fox, so you can't.
dry ember
Alright. I'll just rob a bank
raw violet
ugh, article is gated by money
novel prawn
first you said he's a dog, then a fox... multiple animal personalities? 😛
dry ember
Use scihub?
raw violet
PhD in medical research vetting test
cunning urchin
Whichever is the more convenient target at the time.
raw violet
i.e. this dog was given a fake PhD to test if journals vetted their editorial boards
cunning urchin
This is getting very off-topic.
raw violet
so you can get a fake PhD
dry ember
It's OK. Let her say what she needs to say to have a good night sleep.
I'm benevolent.
cunning urchin
I'll just rob a bank
I'm benevolent.
novel prawn
This is getting very off-topic.
@cunning urchin this should have been a discussion in sploilers, would have made people very confused about the game
raw violet
PhD in Hadesology is almost back to topic
dry ember
off topic
raw violet
PhD in 32 heat runs and the value of each pact of punishment option in ease vs challenge
dry ember
Bonus section on 32 Heat with Huge Catch
cunning urchin
I'm the only one here with published research in the pinned messages journal.
Out of the people currently present.
dry ember
Along with a NFS reference meme video
raw violet
bonus section on 50 heat and why it breaks the balance of weapons, boons, and etc
dry ember
Speak volumes about the quality
raw violet
"published research"
main osprey
They didn't say it was formal, just published
raw violet
touche
cunning urchin
Correct.
dry ember
Technically peer reviewed too
cunning urchin
Indeed.
main osprey
Are we peers? Dope
main osprey
But it would make you a feathered biped
cunning urchin
Not you, no. But there are peers.
raw violet
the student who gets As and the student who gets Fs who are in the same class are peers
technically
for at least that academic year
mystic vale
It's always nice when you get a triple blood run.
main osprey
I think Nyaa means they're in a whole 'nother class
dry ember
There are people who cleared 32 heat 2 days ealier
And there are people who do it later
Technically all peer
But not to the same level
cunning urchin
You're not fellow published researchers like me.
main osprey
:3
novel prawn
you guys are giving me too many plot twists 😛
cunning urchin
HeartfulPeach is a peer.
magic dagger
shhh.... it's still about hades
main osprey
I mean, I am. Just not published here
mystic vale
And on this server, it's okay to be openly peer.
mystic vale
You can even be openly fey!
main osprey
What about fae?
dry ember
What about on topic
mystic vale
That too.
mystic vale
You can even be a sidhe male openly!
mystic vale
And that's Underworld Customs off the prophecy list.
raw violet
44 heat guan yu officially recorded (not by me)
main osprey
Woah
raw violet
so there really is just fists and rail left for high heat
mystic vale
Eh, I might use it again later.
Especially with the sword.
Since my boons are nice but not strictly speaking necessary when the base damage is so high.
cunning urchin
Malphon is the newest, so I'm not surprised.
I used Underworld Customs for 32 heat. Can be harsh in combination with Approval Process.
dry ember
Idk if I will ever touch Approval Process tbh
mystic vale
Although I can't find this "defiance" boon they want me to get from Chaos for the life of me.
main osprey
Do you use SD or DD?
cunning urchin
Malphon doesn't need a lot of boons, though, so it worked out well.
dry ember
DD for me
mystic vale
Fox, you don't get to say anything is fine with that avatar. :p
main osprey
Asking Knucklehead
dry ember
Lul
mystic vale
Oh, DD presently, but I'm not on 20+ heat.
main osprey
Ah, okay
errant narwhal
took me lots and lots of runs to find the defiance boon
cunning urchin
@mystic vale that's his legendary. I've seen it once lol.
mystic vale
Only time I pull out SD is if I'm doing Guan Yu.
dry ember
The stubborn one?
main osprey
There's one chaos boon that's reliant on DD, right?
dry ember
Yeah a legendary one too
errant narwhal
Yeah, rerolling with the second type of reroll could help getting it as well
magic dagger
Can you get ice wine off of Demeter's call?
errant narwhal
You need a boon from them first, and then you have a chance of getting the defiance on the second boon
dry ember
Actually yes you can
cunning urchin
Master Chaos's legendary works with Stubborn Defiance.
mystic vale
Is Defiance a certain tier? Do I need three Chaos boons in one run or something to be offered it?
dry ember
Lysol you can get Ice Wine with Trippy Shot and the call
errant narwhal
Just one! It can be offered on the second boon
It doesn’t matter what the boon is
But it’s pretty rare
mystic vale
Well, it helps slightly.
dry ember
I saw it like 3 times
errant narwhal
I’ve seen it twice now
mystic vale
Hard Labour, Jury Summons, MM, FO, and Approval Process left to go.
cunning urchin
Keep your persuasion rerolls for Master Chaos and force some gates at the shops.
dry ember
Is it how many heat or how much heat?
In this context technically heat is countable
But
cunning urchin
He'll do 1~2 at a time for the prophecy.
mystic vale
Yep.
dry ember
Yeah 9 heat there are less painful options than those.
mystic vale
Trying all the various ones out and deciding which ones I want to run to high heat.
restive solar
jury summons best heat booster
raw violet
8, actually. I thought FO1 was 3
errant narwhal
I should do that too, I’m gonna have only that and the duo boon prophecy left soon
errant narwhal
I only need the elusive Artemis legendary now.....
restive solar
Just add overtime, there's no problem
dry ember
Haven't seen Fully Loaded either
dry ember
It's a myth, don't believe it
restive solar
also, TD is too wonky rn with inconsistent time stops
neon fiber
And i’ve seen most leggies
cunning urchin
You'll think thrice about Jury Summons on higher heat.
dry ember
It's a trick by SSG
cunning urchin
I find TD to be very consistent.
errant narwhal
I have to try, shes the only god prophecy I have left
raw violet
High heat is hard to know because the way the heat options interact with each other can vary wildly
mystic vale
Need H5 for Rail anyhow. FO and Approval Process. My boons won't matter near as much as my hammers. Wait, no. AP's gonna affect hammers too, isn't it?
raw violet
Vary wildly compared to heat options in isolation
neon fiber
Get all three EMs so you reach heat 5
errant narwhal
I think it’s so fun, but not for high heat
restive solar
Middle management is buffs right?
I like middle management a lot
wwait no
benefits package mb
dry ember
MM makes you fight more mini boss
novel prawn
Need H5 for Rail anyhow. FO and Approval Process. My boons won't matter near as much as my hammers. Wait, no. AP's gonna affect hammers too, isn't it?
@mystic vale I think so, yes
raw violet
It’s the EM of minibosses
dry ember
Benefit Package let armored units have special abilities
errant narwhal
Yeah I think they’re both cool
restive solar
the only time I regret benefit package is when I get buffed suicide chariots
cunning urchin
Jury Summons + BP2 + FO2 + DC2 + HL-anything can be very very nasty.
dry ember
DC?
restive solar
I pretty much always run jury, mm and bp
cunning urchin
Damage Control.
raw violet
Damage control
restive solar
plus trap damage
magic dagger
Okay, I'm using aspect of hestia, and delta chamber was just offered. This has happened to me three times in a row.
the game is trolling me
dry ember
No DChamber on Hestia
Just don't
Even SF can be debatable on Hestia
Since SF doesn't play well with reloading
#buffSF
raw violet
Yeah but why even bother when you can just SF
dry ember
Shhhh
magic dagger
SF was fine, honestly. Empowered shot, then dash in, then reload
raw violet
And be as or more effective
magic dagger
but delta chamber would make me suicidal
magic dagger
the only reason this matters is that I need delta chamber for the prophecy
cunning urchin
Jury Summons is all fun and games until 5 Inferno-Bombers on FO2 throw 5 +60~100% damage bombs at you from off-screen that explode before you can react.
dry ember
Lol just deflect the bombs
magic dagger
fun fact: you can reload even if you have delta chamber
this is the dawn of a new age, ladies and gentlemen
mighty ermine
i knew that but also, the little cooldown period between bursts
and that cooldown period not being affected by attack speed buffs
cunning urchin
Attack speed buffs aren't very intuitive at the moment.
raw violet
no they are not
mighty ermine
i understand it not working in the case of spear spin charge speed, since that would make quick spin feel redundant, but yeah pretty much
raw violet
there's been no feedback about it in the last few months so it might be worth trying to come up with examples
magic dagger
I just spent a solid minute doing nothing but reloading
raw violet
like, you can reload from full?
mighty ermine
yeah
afaik you can't be blocked from empowering hestia's shot even with things like delta chamber or full mag
cunning urchin
But does the buff stack?
raw violet
wouldn't that be some sweet tech
cunning urchin
It was more a rhetorical question. Would be hilarious.
magic dagger
just empower your shot 5 times
that would totally make up for the indignity of having delta chamber
cunning urchin
Isn't Delta Chamber a 3-hit burst?
mighty ermine
yeah it's 3
cunning urchin
Can you confirm if the buff applies to all 3 hits?
mighty ermine
i've had delta on hestia before and no
just the first of three
they're still technically separate bullets and counted as such
even though they're rapid and paired as such
cunning urchin
What about regular dash-strikes? That's 2 hits, right?
mighty ermine
rail dash-strikes are still resulting in two, rapid, but separate hits unfortunately so it wouldn't affect both
that would be so great though
cunning urchin
I wasn't sure if they're simultaneous or successive.
magic dagger
empowered shot occurs by itself, then you can fire triple bursts if you don't reload
cunning urchin
What's the damage boost from Hestia Lv.5?
magic dagger
dash strike fires two double-shots
mighty ermine
150 iirc
magic dagger
yeah it's 150
cunning urchin
So effectively +50% for a 3-round burst.
dry ember
Also
dry ember
Hestia first round empowered shot has longer range than spreadfire
Like very noticeable
Is this worth a feedback?
raw violet
shouldn't it be?
dry ember
I don't think it should
cunning urchin
@novel prawn your reward is Hades has a good laugh.
novel prawn
yeah, I guess
raw violet
spreadfire reduces range
magic dagger
empowered shot is its own thing, spread fire doesn't affect it
dry ember
It's not consistent
novel prawn
like, don't get me wrong, I'm not against chariots appearing in tartarus... I just wish I was more careful
magic dagger
so you have one empowered shot and 11 shotgun blasts
dry ember
Well that's why I ask if it's worth a feedback
To me I kinda want both the empowered shot and the shot blast to have the same range
But it seems like this is a non issue to many.
mighty ermine
hestia really does have it rough in terms of any hammers being game changing for it
magic dagger
no, probably not feedback-worthy. It's absolutely intentional, and can actually lead to some interesting strats
raw violet
i guess it's not super clear that the empowered hestia shot is its own thing
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's not the behavior I would expect.
mighty ermine
yeah, i agree that it's mostly a communication thing
raw violet
it's a little hard after a lot of experimentation and testing weapons what people expect the very first time from any item description
i would think any well-structured feedback is worthwhile, whether or not that feedback should be enacted upon is totally different
dry ember
I think a better solution is just being able to test hammer upgrades in the courtyard
raw violet
ay
dry ember
I'm not gonna submit a feedback
cunning urchin
So you're saying they should add the house contractor option for a Lady Aphrodite Temple like I've asked for.
That's what I read from that.
dry ember
Just hope the prior one on courtyard test is enacted
raw violet
i imagine a lady aphrodite temple is thematically not going to function that way
cunning urchin
You should because it's a related but separate issue.
dry ember
So you're saying they should add the house contractor option for a Lady
AphroditeArtemis Temple like I've asked for.
Yeah sure that's what I meant
cunning urchin
/block FoxHope
mystic vale
I want to see the masochist that does Hazard Bomb + Aspect of Eris.
cunning urchin
I've been meaning to try that when it's Lv.5.
restive solar
I'm having the worst run of my life to balance out that broken blade build before
nothing but common boons
nothing
dry ember
Look at the meanie go
raw violet
nothing wrong with common boons
restive solar
@cunning urchin the karma gets worse. You were the one to tell me I should use blade dash with malphon right?
blade dash is my only source of dps right now. and I'm using malphon
cunning urchin
I didn't exactly say to use it. I said it might be good.
I haven't used it myself yet.
How is it working out though?
mystic vale
I was the Malphon + Blade advocate.
restive solar
well I'm using demeter aspect fists, with no attack boon and no special boon. my cast is common zeus, and my dash is epic blade
so it's working
in the absence of any other source of damage
beating furies with it right now
dash, dash, dash, dash
raw violet
i find blade dash can work quite well on bow too
restive solar
well yeah
cunning urchin
That's what you get for running coin purse.
restive solar
also, this is 14 heat
raw violet
if you subscribe to dashing through enemies back and forth with point blank dash attacks
restive solar
sometimes that's the right move
raw violet
which i honestly find to be safer ~~most ~~ a lot of the time
dry ember
That's what you get for running coin purse.
What do you even run for 1st keepsake?
raw violet
the turn speed of enemies is slow enough
magic dagger
eternal rose for good luck
mystic vale
And yes, AP affects Hammers.
magic dagger
JK the goblet every time. I need my alcohols
raw violet
it happens
restive solar
got offered it as first room in asphodel insteaed
cunning urchin
On Malphon, arrow head or the owl in Tartarus.
raw violet
flourish
cunning urchin
Deadly Flourish, yeah.
dry ember
Nvm
restive solar
the best thing about running stygian soul is that you can't get offered lightning rod by accident
cunning urchin
But I'd take an Epic Hunter Dash if she offers it.
mighty ermine
really hoping lightning rod is addressed in the june update, in some form. it probably will given pick rates and feedback, but yeah. whether it's going back to freak accident or making lightning rod more worthwhile
i think the concept behind lightning rod is really cool; it's unique
dry ember
Idk, recently a lot of people like Lightning Rod
Per the devs QA
I think balancing is based on usage
And perhaps winrate
That's why SF was buffed
Etc
main osprey
I've only gotten it once, and that was with a cast that it didn't work well with (Demeter's)
I've been meaning to go for it again
raw violet
lightning rod's offer rate feels high
cunning urchin
I don't expect it necessarily will be changed by June. There's a lot of feedback to go through, but they are focusing on the game engine for this one.
New boons in June will also change things up.
restive solar
just cleared asphodel boat elite encounter with jury summons at full, MM, and BP at full at 5 health without getting hit
dry ember
Do we know what platforms are confirmed?
restive solar
no, I don't like timers
floral maple
what does MM do with the barge?
restive solar
yeah I realized
raw violet
someone was saying jury duty doesn't affect the death barge since it's technically a miniboss fight
restive solar
long fists with zeus basic (common, ugh) helped a lot
magic dagger
MM give the barge ~twice as many enemies
restive solar
yeah I wasn't sure which (or both) applied so I mentioned both
floral maple
that scares me
magic dagger
It's pretty gross
mighty ermine
i wouldn't put it past SGG to address some balance concerns in the june update despite the optimization and port focus
they continually amaze after all
restive solar
PPPFFFFT just walked into next room and immediately lost my life. Hasted, beam-joined bombers jumped over my head
floral maple
i only really play around 8-10 heat so far and im pretty excited for slowly scaling up into high heat runs
restive solar
got zapped by the beam
raw violet
i suspect some changes are probably easier and faster to implement than others as well
mighty ermine
for sure
mystic vale
Extra fast extra strong Fanaticism-enchanted Frenzytaurs.
cunning urchin
Yeah, definitely some of it. I think a lot of things will be different with the new boons, too. E.g. they might be planning new boons for Lord Ares already that make the changes that have been requested unnecessary.
restive solar
it'll be fine
already fixing itself
you can make anything work in this game I swear
mighty ermine
if it makes you feel any better, win streak hardly means anything in its current state
but i know, watching numbers go up
main osprey
Re: Death Barge, I had mentioned that the Chaos Boon that causes more enemies to appear doesn't affect it
mighty ermine
it's nice
raw violet
winstreak only matters to yourself, really
main osprey
I mean, that doesn't really make it harder
dry ember
Yeah win rate matters to me more than win streak
mystic vale
It would include not having a weapon. :p
turbid needle
The fact that the win streak can be completed at any heat makes it worthless really
dry ember
Streaks are hard to keep at 20+ heat
turbid needle
And any weapon
main osprey
Oh, I thought you meant me streaking
mystic vale
Nope. Zag.
mighty ermine
mhm
dry ember
But it's fun to keep a streak going
main osprey
yeah
dry ember
For a little hype
cunning urchin
I don't care for any of that at all.
dry ember
Oh, I thought you meant me streaking
Depends on how good looking you are.
magic dagger
why do all of my builds turn into ice wine builds?
unkempt pagoda
alcoholism
cunning urchin
(Also, praise me for my 32-heat clear.)
turbid needle
One of us, One of us
raw violet
iced wine is a travesty to wine connoisseurs
magic dagger
all praise to Nyaanyaa Mewmew, for her wondrous 32-heat clear
raw violet
which fits nicely with the alcoholism narrative
mystic vale
They haven't tried the Olympian brand.
dry ember
Congratulations to Mewmew for her 32 Heat clear only 2 days after mine.
mystic vale
57 heat when?
raw violet
congrats to fox and mewmew for only having 1 32 clear
turbid needle
As anyone even done 57 heat lmao
magic dagger
57 heat when?
@mystic vale whenever Haelian feels up to it
dry ember
Shades
raw violet
we can all play this game
cunning urchin
Thank you, thank you, you're far too kind.
mystic vale
gives Mewmew a nectar.
cunning urchin
Oh nice, Nectar. I can offer this to Lady Aphrodite.
raw violet
haelian has been doing 50 attempts
mighty ermine
anywhere around 50 almost requires laborious seed and route planning
mighty ermine
this can be remedied...
raw violet
routing i think at that heat is particularly difficult due to the difficulty of getting through individual rooms
dry ember
What if you soft route for like the first boon?
turbid needle
Won't be quite enough
raw violet
damage, enemies, time all change the seeding i believe
magic dagger
One good boon isn't anywhere near enough
turbid needle
^
raw violet
i think this 49 has a nice seed that is hammer then artemis immediately
mystic vale
Gotta farm that first boon Ocean's Bounty.
mighty ermine
this wasn't recorded but @raw violet https://imgur.com/a/vPjFVpb
raw violet
hammer is a hammer
cunning urchin
Good night, Lady Aphrodite worshippers. Hellish night, heathens.
mighty ermine
this person documented their 50 heat routing
mystic vale
Night noisy. :p
raw violet
oh god
mighty ermine
it may be hard due to individual rooms being so awful but... kind of necessary and nightmarish
raw violet
well of the runs i've been watching, they are blind pretty quickly through Tartarus
mighty ermine
i don't know the individual skill level of this player or anything
but the amount of planning put into just clearing 50 heat is comical here
raw violet
yeah
non recorded is tough because there's also no way to verify if it's a complete run through or if people are just saving and reloading after every door
though i guess a youtube video could technically just be a very lengthy edit
mighty ermine
right, if someone was actually just duping their save at every step of the way
raw violet
one could argue
dry ember
Technically that's a clear
But not with the spirit of the game.
At the same time, this is not speedrunning, do we really need handcam?
For video verification?
raw violet
i think we're getting into very subjective and self-imposed territory
mighty ermine
like if you're submitting it for some site that logs 50 heat clears and wants to make sure they're legit, you'd likely want a recording
raw violet
yeah
raw violet
in a small circle of competition, it would be disingenuous to the other players
but that would be amongst that particular group
mighty ermine
for example i couldn't submit my fastest time to the hades any heat category leaderboard because it wasn't recorded. so i went out and recorded a run that wasn't quite as fast, but still fast
submitted that instead
raw violet
haha, that 50 heat run took 16 hours real-time
mighty ermine
oh my gods
mighty ermine
given all of the complications that come with 50 heat
that's honestly a fine igt lmao
raw violet
yeah
dry ember
16 hours were for routine purposes?
raw violet
sounds like reloading saves
not sure if the routing was done at the same time
or ahead of time
probably the same time, realistically
yes, routing, now that i'm reading through the notes
so they routed only tartarus
the rest is combo blind + reloads
which i guess has some element of routing
novel prawn
probably an unpopular opinion but i think the Slothful movement penalty boon from Chaos should also apply to Dashes
those are what you're generally going to use to move around, especially during battle, so it's not much of a penalty if you can work around it by dashing at 100% speed
@neon fiber regarding this: maybe slow is a bit too much... perhaps lower the range of the dash for the duration of the curse, similar to 'Serrated Edge' Daedalus upgrade for Eternal Spear
neon fiber
yeah that would be good too
magic dagger
@novel prawn you missed the party
novel prawn
yeah I know, but I just wanted to reply to feedback... if someone else mentioned what I said, then sorry
magic dagger
It was meant more as a regretful "wish you were there for it" than a rebuke
novel prawn
well thx, I guess
dry ember
Big no no for dash distance
main osprey
Huh. So if Thunder Flourish kills an enemy, it doesn't count as a kill for Draining Cutter?
dry ember
The maps is designed so that you can dash over most pits and area with one dash
magic dagger
dual shot with ice wine feels so good
dry ember
Limiting dash distance is way more dangerous than it really sounds.
novel prawn
I know, but isn't that the point of a curse?
dry ember
Yes and no