Zzz
#h1-builds-and-combat
raw violet
planning on trying malphon next so we'll see if my tune changes
dry ember
How is teleporting behind you and immediately stun you fair
mossy breach
psch nothing personel
pliant palm
Just this once...
https://prnt.sc/sl8cuz will prob try something like that for 32 heat with shield
Wait
No
Doesn't seems right
pliant palm
1 more rank of benefit package will defo means I'll take less damage than 3 rank of hard labor
Could make it hard for the timer tho, hmm
cunning urchin
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
pliant palm
I think I need to play in low heat with 40% FO
raw violet
i think jury summons alone has a pretty big impact on TD
pliant palm
Need to get used to it before trying 32 heat
raw violet
i would move that to convenience
pliant palm
Gonna have to do some testing I guess
tepid ridge
Why no heightened security? I imagine it mostly becomes a problem during EM hydra
dry ember
To me HS can insta gib you in Elysium and Styx
dry ember
You think you can dodge the pink arrows and the falling balde
mossy breach
yep also the casual 100 dmg hades green jar things
dry ember
Until the screen is filled with rats or enemies
raw violet
i still take it, it's something
pliant palm
And that Javi, yeah
pliant palm
I've got one to do 150 damage iirc
tepid ridge
Ooooh, I forgot about the hades fight. I’ve seen 150 damage pop up against him as wel
dry ember
Yeah arrow in Elysium does 120
turbid needle
elysium statues lmao
dry ember
Blade in Styx does 150
pliant palm
So yeah, for 1 heat, meh
tepid ridge
Elysium I’m not that worried about, getting unlucky with Styx blades is a bit different
raw violet
i'd rather that one heat there than any of the top 3 though
that was just the tradeoff i was looking at
pliant palm
I really need to do some heat climb with the spear, I'm only at 1...
mossy breach
heretic!
pliant palm
It's just not very fun imo :c
raw violet
i'm pretty sure my hard labor was at 100 anyway
or 80
one of the two
but yeah, if you don't get hit, might as well crank up lasting consequences too
dry ember
Oh I was being facetious lol
raw violet
i know
dry ember
Sorry lol sarcasm on the Internet can be hard to detect.
dry ember
If you don't get hit, everything is free maybe except for TD.
fiery light
TV?*
raw violet
i did manage a no hit hades fight yesterday so all the 32 heat struggles did pay off, i guess
fiery light
ayyy nice
grats
I'm trying to do single dash no hit hades to practice
tis exhausting
raw violet
wasted acorn, didn't even get used
fiery light
nice
fiery light
Not sure if I can say here
dry ember
Okok
raw violet
it's not as impressive as it sounds
not too hard to not get hit if everything dies in 1 hit
fiery light
Niiice
srry
merciful end is the best thing i can imagine
LOL
I wish more than anything I could start fists or spear
raw violet
no hit hades with sword and one dash would be infinitely more difficult
raw violet
no hit to 50% phase 2 sounds like you're practically there
i would think the mob spawns in phase 1 are the biggest hurdle
fiery light
they are
but with some luck and shennagains its doable
the hardest part is doing it without any Artemis (or Hermes)
I heavily favor Art attack, special and general damage buffs
This is also playing -extremely- passively
so I'm not really sure how relevant that is
raw violet
oh yeah, i also managed a heroic greater reflexes that run so that probably helped a lot
with divine dash
fiery light
Nice
raw violet
i basically cheated the no hit
raw violet
haha
fiery light
I sure wish Greatest Reflexes was available from the first run :^)
raw violet
yeah, the mob spawn rng can really make or break
fiery light
Genuinely
it would make 1st run so goddamn good
because youre locked into a decent god pool
(Athena, Ares, Dio, Posei)
And you get a guarenteed Athena dash to start
So if you could get Hermes in Asphodel
fiery light
we actually only have 2 less gods
||Demet and Chaos and Hermes||
depends if you count the middle one
FF starts on run 3 which has a majority of gods unlocked
(sadly)
raw violet
lol, yeah, that doesn't count
raw violet
that's more than i thought
fiery light
and 1 that absolutely is better than the run
raw violet
i guess not that helpful then
fiery light
yeah sadly
but imagine
imagine the world
no
imagine society
if Hermes was available round 1
er run 1
FF would be able to use in game time, Solo First Run would be doable
anyways thats my daily hermes rant
apologies
LOL
raw violet
it's an interesting look at early game mechanics
for a period of time i forgot completely about that unique entrance chamber on run 1
too bad none of those mechanics exist outside of that very esoteric scenario
fiery light
yeah
Thats the only reason im heavily advocating for it
because this genuinely effects only the players who benefit from it
the average player is not making it Asphodel on their very first run of the game
I think thats pretty fair to say
The Set Athena room is just another element that most people aren't aware of but adds another great reason to run FF
cunning urchin
I think I'm out of Bouldy healing.
raw violet
i did the same on my successful run, next athena just gave it back
so i bless you with the same
dry ember
I'm crossing fingers for your Hunting Blade
cunning urchin
Athena keepsake or something else?
raw violet
where are you? elysium?
cunning urchin
Yeah, Elysium now.
raw violet
tough choice
cunning urchin
I've already used Artemis and Ares keepsakes.
mighty ermine
sending you athena energy to get divine dash back as well
fiery light
glgl
cunning urchin
tyty
fiery light
wait is this your first 32?
mighty ermine
pretty sure most of my 32 heat weapon clears had divine dash, like 4 of the 6 or something
raw violet
athena and reroll athena door to artemis/ares and get both
fiery light
^
cunning urchin
Athena keepsake it is.
If not Divine Dash, she'll give me something else that's good and will help me survive. So there's that.
raw violet
i feel like divine dash will net you more survival in the long run than say myrmidon or nut
mighty ermine
definitely
mighty ermine
divine dash and extra hermes dashes really goes a long way towards making a 32 run feel miles safer
dry ember
Does Athena dash lengthen your i-frames when you dash?
Or is the deflect just that good?
raw violet
deflect is just fancy i-frames
fiery light
^
raw violet
so...yes?
dry ember
I thought dash already gives you i-frames?
mighty ermine
they do
raw violet
only a portion of it
dry ember
Ok
mighty ermine
athena's extra deflect iframes on the dash are mostly noticeable at the end i'd say yeah
fiery light
basically, Athena dash gives you deflect iframes
meaning you can play more aggressively and inherently deal more damage as not only are you getting more time in close, you can reflect any attack coming in
It's probably without a doubt the best dash in the game regardless of rarity
pliant palm
What's the best attack on bow with zagreus aspect ? Something like Aphro or Demeter ?
raw violet
and makes it the entirety of the dash save for maybe the last few frams when he stops
cunning urchin
fiery light
BIG F
pliant palm
Oof
fiery light
just get another LOL
mystic vale
For some reason I decided Guan Yu 3 heat was the best time to try TD. 2:50 on the clock for the last boss after the game was quite certain to make the sack be in the LAST tunnel.
mighty ermine
that image hurts so much to look at i'm so sorry
raw violet
welcome to high heat, baby
cunning urchin
Double room, though. I might get something nice from Lord Ares. 
fiery light
merci
raw violet
yeah, agreed
dry ember
Mega F
cunning urchin
I think Bronze Skin it is.
raw violet
i'll dump those approval process point into hard labor, any day
or lasting consequences
cunning urchin
Hmmm. Actually Bronze Skin is like 30~35 HP for me at the moment.
Holy Shield can deflect more than that.
mighty ermine
holy shield could be decently useful for styx all around
mystic vale
Yep, that's a fail.
raw violet
@pliant palm aphro is pretty good. same with artemis and athena
mystic vale
Despite Divine Dash and Strike. :/
raw violet
you can go aphro attack and artemis dash and get heart rend and mow through stuff
i would think
mighty ermine
you def can
raw violet
i haven't figured out how to build zag bow yet
mighty ermine
twin + power shot hammers or triple and chain shot hammers are both great combos for doing good damage
cunning urchin
Ha. Holy Shield already negated more than 35 in that one trial.
mighty ermine
that's what i go for with zag bow
mystic vale
Let's see...still need Defiance from Chaos, Dio's legendary, Charged Throw, 10 Harsh Conditions, quite a few Aspects, and Skelly's First Prize, prophecy wise.
cunning urchin
raw violet
last time i tried to do a fast run, i couldn't get any of the good attack hammers
raw violet
yeah, it was a slow run
raw violet
engulfing is like...baby hunting blades
stoic thicket
Artemis Legendary is probably gonna take a bit...
cunning urchin
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
unkempt pagoda
rip run
raw violet
lol, chariots
unkempt pagoda
teleporting savior flamewheels
cunning urchin
I have 4 dashes.
raw violet
trolliots
unkempt pagoda
you're done lol
mystic vale
GG.
raw violet
actually 4 dashes might make it okay
mighty ermine
you can still kite them into walls so they just blow up
easier said than done i know
raw violet
dash back and forth over an object
cunning urchin
Blade Rifts took care of them rather quick.
mighty ermine
oh yeah i only run ruthless on 20 heat or below
mystic wasp
How long do I have to be in the server before I can use the channels to suggest a fishing point in the Chaos areas
mighty ermine
would not want to tempt fate on any 32s
raw violet
ruthless is just asking for hermes to be my saint and savior
@mystic wasp however long it takes to read the pins in the feedback channel
mighty ermine
@mystic wasp chaos already has potential fishing point spawns though
raw violet
whoops to whoever i accidently pinged
mystic wasp
Thank you thank you, and I guess I just haven't gotten lucky enough to find one
mighty ermine
don't feel bad, i'd say most players haven't seen any chaos fishing points yet
even with many hours put in
it'll likely be addressed in the june update
sudden dagger
I caught @mystic vale
raw violet
i've seen 1
turbid needle
I just saw that Divine dash cut. OUCH
raw violet
in over 100 hours
dry ember
Don't feel bad. Most people don't see Chaos fish
mighty ermine
i've seen one and bless my stars it was the legendary voidskate
turbid needle
... I'm the kind of person that had an opportunity to catch a chaos fish and completly ignored it LOL
mystic wasp
Oof
sudden dagger
I just got a new ambition for this game: become fishing buddies with Chaos
Like, can we just take a break from escaping and fish together
mystic wasp
The real endgame
raw violet
it's gotta be cause of how the fishing cooldown works and where you often see chaos gates
cunning urchin
18 seconds left. 
https://imgur.com/a/7WbtNHG
mighty ermine
and no vicious cycle right? rip :(
raw violet
maybe can game my chances of chaos fishing by never fishing anywhere else
dry ember
My condolences.
turbid needle
Welcome to the average 32 heat Tight Deadline run in Elysium
mighty ermine
i think it doesn't matter whether you fish at a spawned spot or not
the cooldown still occurs
raw violet
oh
dry ember
Well this is 32 heat run
turbid needle
yeah
dry ember
It's rough
turbid needle
Should have specificed that
raw violet
TD in elysium singlehandedly made me turn it off at 32
turbid needle
If it's on it's at 9 minutes for me LOL
dry ember
I get pass Tatarus and Asphodel with minutes to spare
mighty ermine
elysium really does consistently have moments of "surely i'll get pre-boss shop now right" and then you still have one or two more regular combat chambers to go
raw violet
but i'd probably go back to it and just eat the run fail cause the alternative heat options are painful
cunning urchin
Dead.
dry ember
Elysium is like lol that's cute
raw violet
elysium TD is an entire biome that exists as a dps check
dry ember
And Styx is an RNG check
mighty ermine
true, or a run away from exploding kittens check
mighty ermine
i'm at least thankful that baiting out their forward spin lunge is pretty consistent
and leaves them real open
raw violet
yeah
raw violet
but when they'res a gang of them, the bait can get complicated
dry ember
It's a death trap.
turbid needle
Thankfully trials are often paired with Patty the savior
raw violet
who could ever resist those freshly waxed legs
turbid needle
I was just speaking from experience
there might as well be no link
aslo Patty = Patrocleus
mighty ermine
eurydice and patty are both such refreshing sighs among chambers and sisyphus is just like. ok i'll take 100 obols for no time investment, sure i guess
sorry AND an incredible bouldy buff
ambiguity bonus carrying 32 heat runs
raw violet
can't forget the bouldy buff
it's a pretty prime example of escalating rewards, i guess
sudden dagger
I just met Eurydice for the first time :) hoping to mend things between her and Orpheus
cunning urchin
EM3 is such a time sink even without CP.
raw violet
i'm starting to think running meg would be better than sisyphus just to be able to end that fight quicker
mystic vale
Skelly would be my first choice for a new player.
cunning urchin
Possibly. I'd have had fewer DDs by then though for sure.
mystic vale
Athena is also high on the list.
woven kiln
I've got 5 nectar so I'll give em all a shot
cunning urchin
I can't think of any keepsake that's actually worthless.
woven kiln
feel like I've gotten a few bad ones so far lol
stoic thicket
For starters the Cerberus Keepsake can also be quite nice.
raw violet
the npcs you run into in asphodel and elysium are good too
turbid prairie
Funny, cause Poseidon's actually my go-to
stoic thicket
In particular before you get the mirror upgrade for the life.
woven kiln
falling rubble dealing extra damage
mystic vale
I mean technically no, none are worthless, but I'll be damned if I wear Black Shawl a whole run.
woven kiln
like hmmm lol
stoic thicket
Yup, same. Poseidon is one I pick very frequently.
mystic vale
Spunky: Also, consider your mirror upgrades.
raw violet
i think shackle is not super useful
mystic vale
There should be arrows on the left side of your mirror.
You can change which boons you have access to.
raw violet
at least if someone called it worthless, i wouldn't try to argue it
mystic vale
(I like Shackle in Elysium. Traps generally do WAY more damage to the monsters than I can there. :p )
tepid ridge
The key with falling rubble is that it increases all trap damage for enemies which actually can make a big difference from what I hear
Not just rubble from pillars and stuff
raw violet
it can, yes
cunning urchin
I use Black Shawl often in Styx. Shattered Shackle can actually be a nice DPS buff, too.
raw violet
doesn't mean i'd run it over anything else alternatively
cunning urchin
That rubble damage doesn't seem very meaningful normally, but when it does 8x the damage it's actually pretty nice.
woven kiln
true I don't have the thing where you can swap out keepsakes yet
might influence my decision
mystic vale
Yeah, that's some clutch stuff there.
raw violet
but what people said, if you're new then skelly and cerberus is probably your best bang for your buck
cunning urchin
7x the damage. Why is that one "700%" when in every other instance it would be "+600%" lol.
stoic thicket
I second Cerberus.
raw violet
but they fall off quickly as you get mirrors
mystic vale
Like 70% of keepsakes are only good for one area, then need to be switched out. All the deity boons, the money pouch, etc.
stoic thicket
The additional health is so helpful until you can get the Mirror upgrade.
woven kiln
does lucky tooth activate the same time as the mirror rebirth or are they separate
mystic vale
Separate.
stoic thicket
They are seperate.
woven kiln
oh nice
stoic thicket
Lucky Tooth is always last.
mystic vale
And at prior to Thick Skin, usually pretty good for health recovery.
cunning urchin
Lucky Tooth is always better than the Collar on new game runs.
raw violet
lucky tooth and stubborn is probably the best combo til you can unlock more than 1 DD
cunning urchin
Collar is actually nice in Tartarus with High Confidence.
mystic vale
(And Dark Regeneration, because Cthonic Vitality is not as good. :p )
stoic thicket
Stubborn is also really friggin expensive.
woven kiln
I was a little confused at the wording of stubborn
woven kiln
That seems nuts
mystic vale
Not necessarily so good for surviving them until you know the patterns well.
raw violet
it's helpful early on when you're just trying to get through rooms
but most players eventually get through chambers just fine and die at bosses
where having the DDs is more helpful
stoic thicket
Yup. I'd rather have three revives for the final room at more health than one revive for every room that I don't really need all that oftne.
mystic vale
Stubborn is good for learning new weapon aspects and how they play though.
raw violet
new game, should get stubborn until they have enough for 2+ DDs and reset the mirror
stubborn is then inferior for everything until you max out lasting consequences
and then it becomes your only form of heal
stoic thicket
Stubborn costs like 600 though.
cunning urchin
2 DDs is cheaper than Stubborn Defiance.
dry ember
600 is nothing
stoic thicket
For a beginner it's a ton.
raw violet
oh is it? i thought the one stubborn was cheaper than 2 DDs
dry ember
You don't know the pain of high Fated Authority cost
But I kid
Didn't mean to gatekeep there
raw violet
or maybe i'm thinking 1 stubborn is cheaper than 3 DDs
raw violet
maybe that was what i did
waited til i could just get 3 DDs before resetting the mirror
mystic vale
Yeah, I know I invested in a lot of stuff at first, then reset once to focus more on DDs.
cunning urchin
Stubborn Defiance can actually be quite nice either way if you stack up Kisses of Styx.
true pilot
It's also the way to go if you max out Lasting Consequences. But you kind of need to be good enough at the bosses to not need more than a single defy.
raw violet
yeah, in theory a stacked up stubborn is equal to 2 DDs
raw violet
gives more hp on revive
mystic vale
I think they're called Touch of Styx with SD on.
+10% extra HP per Touch.
And it's a Well item, so you can extend the duration, but it starts at 10 room.
raw violet
bone hourglass is definitely a keepsake that really doesn't shine til you max it out
dry ember
I thought Kisses were Patty gift?
cunning urchin
I believe Lady Athena's boons buff the healing, too?
dry ember
Or the well item and Patty share the same name
true pilot
Patty gives you a stronger effect.
raw violet
Patty's is premium
cunning urchin
She has two. Deathless Stand and Last Stand.
dry ember
One is more healing and one for longer impervious, if I'm not mistaken.
cunning urchin
Yes. I'm saying I'm pretty sure they buff the healing from Stubborn Defiance if you use that.
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322568160858502/613473A1C5686906FA341691CE0196456F55A216/ Well, that answers the DD version. :p
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322568160888402/032547900A9CE5D711BB60D208569F7784F31137/ The fruits of an early Epic Rare Crop. (Yes, that's an awkward sentence.)
dry ember
Congrats on the win. Double edge Arthur can be extra spicy.
mystic vale
Yeah, it was a record speed for me for a reason. :p
graceful smelt
new to the game; how do i unlock companions like shady or bouldy or meg
stoic thicket
Max out the standing of the respective NPC, then do a quest for them.
mystic vale
How's Aspect of Chiron? It looks intriguing.
dry ember
Needs upgrades
mystic vale
Since I often mention the benefits of point blank Flourish anyhow.
dry ember
Don't use it at level 1
stoic thicket
Chiron is my favorite bow aspect, in particular if you can get the +4 arrows from the hammer.
dry ember
You shoot 4 arrows at level 1
mystic vale
I'm sitting on 16 bloods and my only other unupgraded weapon is the rail.
dry ember
Which is decidedly underwhelming
Higher level though
That thing chunks
Especially with Deadly Flourish
stoic thicket
Rail with the Zag aspect is pretty nice, and cheap to get. 5 blood for max.
mystic vale
Sounds fun. Failing that, Drunken Flourish should be hilarious. Bonus points if I can get Low Tolerance.
tepid ridge
It’s hilarious for doom builds. I once managed impending doom, dire misfortune, merciful end and the +4 arrows. Damage was still lacking because it’s doom but it wasn’t bad at all
mystic vale
Alright, maxed Chiron. Back down to one blood. Maybe now vampires will stop following me around begging for handouts.
dry ember
Also
stoic thicket
I've used it with Poseidon special and getting Sea Storm later on.
dry ember
You can test out weapons
stoic thicket
That worked fairly awesome.
dry ember
If you max out something
cunning urchin
Damage was still lacking because it’s doom
Huh?
graceful smelt
aspect of hades or achilles for the spear?
dry ember
Hades for me
mystic vale
Oh, right. The spear actually has more than one Aspect. :x
agile prism
DOOOM
mystic vale
Doom's not too bad if you're doing hit and run.
cunning urchin
Achilles Aspect makes the strongest cast builds.
tepid ridge
I like Achilles. Cast-focused aspects are a lil less variety-driven but darn if they don’t work
dry ember
I mean one spin at level 3 gives you 90% damage increase on bosses
cunning urchin
You can be attacking without pause and Doom will still be strong.
dry ember
With Hades
tepid ridge
I just rarely mesh with spin attack on Varatha but like you said, different strokes
dry ember
For sure!
tepid ridge
I’ll prob try it again in the future
dry ember
I had a run with Hades Aspect and Serrated Edge
I just really like how fast the bosses go down
mystic vale
Oooh, Twin Shot, Chain Shot, Explosive Shot...
mystic vale
I'm set up with Fiery Presence/High Confidence.
dry ember
Depends on what build you have rn
mystic vale
I'm 1.14 seconds in. :p
dry ember
Chain Shot aoe good for room clear
Twin Shot melts bosses.
Chain Shot is the safer option imo
mystic vale
Chain...with the Aspect, does it hit the first enemy I targeted, or the last actually hit?
cunning urchin
It feels intuitively like Doom is balanced for hit-and-run style, and that other boons will be stronger if you attack relentlessly.
graceful smelt
which keepsake do i take with the achilles spear
dry ember
Not sure. I think just the first target
mystic vale
FOR SCIENCE!
dry ember
Ok gl haha
mystic vale
First one.
dry ember
I will have to try Doom run. Tbh I usually shy away from it
Until people start pushing.for it recently.
mystic vale
Ahahahahaha.
cunning urchin
But you actually need to hit a lot within that 1.1 sec for other boons to match Doom, not the other way around.
tepid ridge
❄️❄️❄️
cunning urchin
Unless your attacks have very high base damage like ||Excalibur||.
dry ember
If Doom can out damage fast stacking boons
Then which weapon can use things like Hangover or Frost?
true pilot
Hangover has a cap, Chill needs to stack to 10 to burst with a secondary boon, and Jolted needs a boon to last a while and even then it depends on how quickly the enemy attacks.
Rupture depends on how much they move.
And again, the only status that does damage upfront with a single boon is Hangover.
Doom is pretty solid for a slow~ish, defensive playstyle.
cunning urchin
Doom is not slow.
true pilot
slowish
dry ember
What if I have a tight deadline to meet?
true pilot
If you're using a wide weapon like bouncy or chaos shield, or the bow, you'll be fine
dry ember
Also my point isn't Doom bad. My point is which weapon can actually use Hangover or Frost
Maybe except shield
true pilot
Chiron bow, Rail attack, Fist attack.
tepid ridge
Yea I don’t mind current doom, but it is comparatively slower than other effects, trade-off for damage OT instead of DPS. It’s Ares’ forked boon tree that I hope to see modified
true pilot
Spear can do it if you get Flurry on the attack.
languid storm
So I think the trippy shot build is the best one in the game by a mile
dry ember
I think you can do even less work with Hunting Blade
cunning urchin
Doom not really effectively slower, though. @raw violet and I both agree that Doom is generally the fastest build on Malphon. Possibly not withstanding seeded or mapped-out speedruns and all that. I don't do those.
stoic thicket
Doom on Malphon attack?
cunning urchin
Yes.
dry ember
Yee. That's the new fad recently.
tepid ridge
For casts, yea probably. I don’t like hunting blades as much compared to the instant area damage that Ice Wine can output
cunning urchin
Frost is something you would use for Chill for survivability, the +40% base is pretty good, too.
languid storm
Also ice wine has the best duo boon synergies and most legendary synergies
dry ember
Oak you are right. What with Trippy Shot you need to aim somewhat
raw violet
hey, i was messing around with ares fist long before any fad
dry ember
Hunting Blade is just hit cast and lol
stoic thicket
Ares fist is something I'll definitely try tomorrow.
raw violet
doom is not great on fist as a standalone
dry ember
Ares fist is new to me doe
raw violet
ares doesn't really shine til you pair him with other gods
languid storm
Ice Wine+ Scintillating Feast+ Cold Fusion is absolutely insane
flat brook
Ice Wine+ Scintillating Feast+ Cold Fusion is absolutely insane
dio's wet dream is ice wine + scint feast + cold fusion + black out + winter harvest + splitting bolt
dry ember
I swear I have PTSD when people mention Scintillating Feast Ice Wine Cold Fusion runs
languid storm
And it also leaves you spots to go for black out, splitting bolt, or winter harvest
flat brook
once i got all in one run, most satisfying run ever
languid storm
Yeah it has the most high tier boon synergies by a mile
raw violet
cunning urchin
ares doesn't really shine til you pair him with other gods
I don't quite agree. The DPS with Curse of Agony is great without any extra boons, actually. But amazing with Divine Dash and Merciful End, of course.
raw violet
for doom fist
languid storm
Next is probably Heart Rend+Deadly Reversal+Spent Spirit with Divine Strike on the aspect of Arthur
raw violet
yeah, maybe, merciful end just skyrockets malphon
stoic thicket
Yeah, Ares / Athena was also what I was thing about.
cunning urchin
It definitely does.
raw violet
merciful end, impending doom, and extra dashes is all you really need
"all you really need" i guess that's a fair amount of boons
cunning urchin
@dry ember Hangover just seems overall weak to me at the moment. I'll have have to look into it to see where it shines (if anywhere).
languid storm
Black out/ the aphro duo on malphon
Tbh really just the aphro duo on malphon makes hangover shine, especially with aspect of demeter
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike and Low Tolerance on Malphon is still weaker than base Curse of Agony or Lightning Strike.
dry ember
I had a decent run with Drunken Strike (albeit Heroic) and Frost Flourish on fist.
languid storm
Sure but lightning strike on any high speed weapon has absolutely insane potential
dry ember
Thing is I can't tell if the damage came from Drunken Strike or privilege status bonus
cunning urchin
Well, it's weak comparatively. Malphon with anything Heroic would do good damage.
languid storm
I think my issue with Ares is that more then any other god his cast boons and other boons feel distinct, enough so that I’d almost split them into two separate gods
cunning urchin
Yeah, they're odd.
But I'm liking his cast more and more, recently. It works very well for Malphon.
flat brook
If they changed ares' legendary to tie doom and blade rifts together he'd be fine
Dio also has 2 completely distinct "archetypes" but his legendary ties both wonderfully
languid storm
Like doom could be reflavoured as “brittle” and given to hephaestus or some other god, and attack/specials could be changed to some kind of blade rift variant, or like a lingering damage effect
Tying doom and blade rifts could work, it would make him like Dio in that he’s super demanding of your base boon slots
flat brook
Just change ares' legendary to "when your doom effects proc, a blade rift spawns on the enemy for 0.5s" and he'd be OP
don't even need to change the icon
fiery light
I don't think the goal is to have him be OP
the goal is to have his gameplay loop be interesting
flat brook
Tying doom and blade rifts could work, it would make him like Dio in that he’s super demanding of your base boon slots
technically dio is as demanding as other gods for his legendary, you only need 1 hangover boon and trippy shot, no tier 2 boons needed at all
oh, you mean base boon slots, i misread
languid storm
Yeah, the other gods just need a base and tier twos for the most part
Dio’s the only one you can get off two bases
That also needs both bases
flat brook
yeah, i'd be down for ares being a 2nd dio in that term
languid storm
I would also enjoy something like “your attack/special leave a lingering blade rift in the same shape” that would match the shape of what left it
sudden dagger
Cerberus vanquished (not really) aah I love this game
languid storm
The spear special would be a big line or the swords leaving little boxes
dry ember
Cerberus Abandoned
mystic vale
Yeah, ran out of time on Hydra, didn't get a decent damage upgrade.
dry ember
You tried TD?
Quick tip, you can hit pause to think which boon , item, direction to pick. The timer stops for TD purposes.
true pilot
that's something that I would really like to see changed, actually.
mystic vale
Yeah, but it doesn't stop when Hydra spawns seven heads and my top damage is 140.
true pilot
We can already pause and think forever, might as well have the TD timer stop upon picking up the reward.
dry ember
The timer should stop when you interact with boon or the last enemy killed.
true pilot
Yeah.
true pilot
Yeah. But I mean, TD stops for Thanatos.
dry ember
Than event in Tartarus is meh
true pilot
If you can pause, and un-pausing wouldn't get you killed, TD should stop.
true pilot
As far as TD goes, it's a time gain. But the event itself can be rough.
dry ember
Yeah I like the time save in Elysium since it's a free room time wise
sudden dagger
Ah man
dry ember
But getting through it can be brutal
dry ember
Do you want that answered?
flat brook
doesn't TD already pause in the boon selection screen?
mighty ermine
regarding final boss "forms" if you do want it answered: ||yes, he has a whole second phase that replenishes his health bar fully. changes his melee moveset a bit and adds entirely new moves otherwise||
languid storm
Also the regenerating DD feels way way worse than having extra DD’s
dry ember
When you see 2 doors, you can pause to think about which one to take
If you don't the timer still ticks down while you think
flat brook
i guess it doesn't pause because if it did, you'd be able to do troves with no time penalty
dry ember
Idk about the coding aspect of it
mighty ermine
it wouldn't be hard to get the timer going again upon activating the trove, though
dry ember
But they can just start the timer again
flat brook
TD pauses on thanatos because technically he's the one that kills zag when the time's up
mystic vale
Let's see. Twin Fists, so now's the time to grab Conch Shell heading out the gate...
true pilot
yep.
dry ember
Although, considering Than event also pauses the trove if it's in the same room
I think there is some caveat for trove timer
true pilot
They can make it so troves activate the timer again.
mighty ermine
poseidon has horrible synergy with fists though
dry ember
So the implementation may be more trouble some than it seems
Again, I'm not a coder
I'm just pointing out potential problems with trove timer.
mystic vale
I was just trying to make Mewmew's head explode, Tail. :p
true pilot
It wouldn't be much a problem if Troves are free time-wise, though.
mighty ermine
ah haha
dry ember
Agree.
mystic vale
Obviously I'm actually going Distant Memory. 😉
dry ember
Trove timer shouldn't count, especially opening it also doesn't stop the timer
And that's about 5 to 7 seconds gone
Including movement, etc.
I'm saving Poseidon fist for a 57 heat Huge Catch attempt
Fish or burst.
mystic vale
Would be hilarious if catching certain fish actually helped your chances with a run.
Like maybe Theseus is allergic to Chlam smell or something. :p
cunning urchin
But Chlams don't exist. That wouldn't help.
mystic vale
My codex says they do. :p
Also, if you do try heat 57 Poseidon Fist, put that on YT. :p
Rock that wall damage baby.
dry ember
ok boomer
neon fiber
crustaceans are a lie perpetuated by poseidon, chlams and other so called crustaceans are just insects in disguise
sudden dagger
Well that wasn't too bad. Second time in Styx and I got past cerebus - learned to always look for the poison cure wells when entering a room first thing
mystic vale
That is a good idea, yes.
dry ember
Live and learn Patrick, live and learn
sudden dagger
I also got a duo for the first time: Artemis and Athena
neon fiber
it's also a good idea to not give the sack until you're sure you've cleared all rooms you wanted to clear
dry ember
Deadly Reversal is great.
sudden dagger
Yeah sometimes it is a choice between live and learn, or die and learn. I specifically didn't walk down any hallways that looked like they contained minibosses
dry ember
Gl! You are close to beating Daddy Hades.
sudden dagger
Lots of mysteries still to go ;)
Achilles told me about Yuan Gu, but I only have 2 bloods
I also heard about the admin room, but I only have 2 diamonds
I wonder if Master Yi is in this game as a sword aspect :p
sudden dagger
Also I met demeter
Seems like she knows me now because I walked on the surface for like 2 minutes
mystic vale
She has some of the best boons in the game. Sadly, also some of the worst.
dry ember
Rare crop can be a run saver
sudden dagger
One part of this game seems to be identifying the value of boons... It's pretty hard
dry ember
Patrick do you know the myth of Persephone?
sudden dagger
Vaguely
dry ember
||Demeter is her mom and hence Zag's grandma||
sudden dagger
She ended up making a compromise between Hades and Earth and that's why there are seasons
dry ember
Also that
mystic vale
Hades: All about baby mama drama.
sudden dagger
Thanks for putting a spoiler around that, I probably won't click. How do you use spoiler tags on here?
mystic vale
Just like ||Hades is actually just four penguins in a trench coat with a minor illusion.||
sudden dagger
Hello ||world||
I am also deciding to avoid reading general mythology sources, ever since looking up Zagreus on day one and reading that ||he's the son of Persephone and Zeus??? I might have read that wrong lol don't tell me.||
neon fiber
Hades has its own take on Zagreus
There’s like
Two or three origins of Zagreus we know of
The game even references some of the archeological finds pointing at Zagreus maybe have been proto-Dyonisus or proto-Hades at a point
dry ember
Zagreus is a character created by SSG
sudden dagger
I used to teach astronomy lessons for a summer camp, and I had my own take on casseopia. Some myths are asking for an update hehe
neon fiber
And the myths about Orpheus having been dismembered
dry ember
SSG then edited Wikipedia to make him legitimate
neon fiber
Makes sense
dry ember
They can't fool me.
neon fiber
The Apollo V landing on Zagreus was faked too
mystic vale
Down to seven 1 star keepsakes, and two 2 star.
neon fiber
And the round zagreus theories are fake, zagreus is flat
sudden dagger
@mystic vale you started a fresh save recently, right?
mystic vale
I did, yes.
sudden dagger
I'm waiting for Zeus and Poseidon to come and chill near the entrance to Styx, so they can be like, Bro, wassup when Hades comes to send me back
mystic vale
Ugh. Explosive Upper, Quake Cutter, Flying Cutter. GAME WHY DO YOU HATE ATTACK?
cunning urchin
@dry ember looked a bit more into Hangover. Drunken Flourish does the best damage on Zag Aspect Malphon if you use only 2 specials every 4 seconds (i.e., only enough to keep 2~4 stacks up, unless you have Low Tolerance for a higher cap), best damage on Demeter Aspect's buffed Uppercut if you only use it once every 4 seconds (too close to Deadly Flourish and Heartbreak Flourish to make it truly worthwhile), and it does the best damage on Chiron if you only fire the Volley once every 4 seconds.
So basically, Hangover is good on any multi-hit move that you'd use every 2~4 seconds or just enough to keep 4 stacks up (or 5 stacks if it's 5+ hits).
dry ember
Thanks for the info.
mystic vale
Mewmew, which of those sucks least? Heat 3, EM 1, TD.
Divine Strike and Trippy Shot.
dry ember
I'll read more into that when I have time to think.
cunning urchin
Oh, the Hammer upgrades?
mystic vale
Yeah. I don't use Fists Flourish often. :/
sudden dagger
I'm going to take a break - can't keep getting this close to freedom and sent back. Time for reading Harry Potter
mystic vale
Sadly, cannot reroll. 😦
cunning urchin
Honestly, I would personally pick whichever and continue to ignore the Uppercut. Probably.
cunning urchin
I don't like Quake Cutter much.
proven robin
I actually had some strangely decent times using Quake Cutter.
Spamming Special actually combos them.
cunning urchin
The "quake" doesn't combo. As in, the enemies recover from the Uppercut before the quake hits, and they have enough time to hit you inbetween.
proven robin
Really? Huh. I...maybe I got lucky those times?
mystic vale
I believe it can combo if you have Hermes +30% Special.
mighty ermine
took quake cutter once for the prophecy, thought it was just bad, haven't bothered with it since
naive tusk
Savage~
mystic vale
~Garden?
naive tusk
Btw I’d pick Explosive Cutter out of the 3 💯
mystic vale
I'm maxed Zag. I want as many boosts to my attack and DS as possible, keep those deflections coming.
+30% attack speed gets me to propose to Hermes.
cunning urchin
Greatest Reflex is what you'd want from him above all.
That's what I wrote, what do you mean.
mystic vale
Nope, I want Reflux. :p
cunning urchin
mighty ermine
greatest recall: you now have infinite casts
fiery light
hahaha
cunning urchin
Gimme that room 1 Epic Greatest Reflex.
mystic vale
Greatest Recall: You can remember the names of everyone you've ever met at a party.
dry ember
Ok now that's too OP
cunning urchin
Greatest Recall: The Olympians demand all their boons back.
mystic vale
Rare is at any party or business function. Epic includes Weddings and birthdays that weren't parties. Heroic is all social functions.
cunning urchin
Patience.
faint vigil
pressure points makes any damage critical chance?
dry ember
That's why it's like 3 percent per hit for common
cunning urchin
Pressure Points is effectively an overall damage boost of 2x the crit chance. As in, +3% crit chance is effectively +6% damage on everything.
paper mountain
Kinda like Urge to Kill?
paper mountain
Interesting
mighty ermine
scales incredibly well with having more damage sources on your build
dry ember
But UtK have higher percentage right off the bat
So one is not necessarily strictly better than the other.
mighty ermine
utk can't affect the flat zeus lightning damage or splitting bolt damage though
cunning urchin
Urge to Kill is a lot weaker. It's additive and only applies to attack and cast.
cunning urchin
Crit is multiplicative.
dry ember
Yes but damage in Hades is flat.
mighty ermine
it's the quintessential "ares showed up and i don't want to make an ares build"
might as well take utk for family favorite damage
cunning urchin
+% damage and crit damage are not flat.
cunning urchin
The way you use "flat" is really not how it's ever been used in any RPG.
I mean you can call it that, but no one will ever use your definition.
dry ember
I disagree. In RPG there is level
And scaling means your base damage increase with time
The counter part of scaling is flat damage
But there is no level in Hades so there is no scaling
mystic vale
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1018322568161377217/16D1EF82C071A35499CCC46C01DA8AADAB141BFC/ Granted, I ran out of time, but not so badly I didn't die. Unrelated: Is the sack always in the last tunnel on TD?
dry ember
Anyhow, semantic argument. Let's drop it.
mystic vale
Yes. We should argue pineapple on pizza instead.
cunning urchin
Most of the time it's in the second or third tunnel.
dry ember
Never on first, mind you.
Always on 5th if you have a good run going so you lose to TD.
mystic vale
Sigh. Damn quaint farms.
cunning urchin
TD doesn't affect that, anyway.
I don't think I've ever actually lost a 5-sack TD2 run yet. 
dry ember
Just you wait.
Did you use the pause timer trick?
A second saved is a second earned.
cunning urchin
Oh I died once during the shift from phase 1 to phase 2. I don't think that was with Malphon, though.
dry ember
Hades transition animation is a crime
He says "You are just stalling boy"
But literally take his sweet time getting up
Like who is stalling now old man.
cunning urchin
The most difficult part of the fight is him hiding under invincibility and invisibility.
mystic vale
Drags on more than a dragon.
cunning urchin
Because you actually have to deal with his skulls and stuff when he does that.
Just let me zerg him.
Zagr him.
dry ember
I see SC reference I like
mystic vale
Still need Hard Labour, Heightened Security, Routine Inspection, Lasting Consequences, Jury Summons, FO, MM, Underworld Customs, and Approval Process.
cunning urchin
Only because we called it that in FFXI, too.
dry ember
yeah but SC did it first
mystic vale
@sudden dagger Hey, what'd you need to know about my fresh file anyhow?
dry ember
Also Heightened Security is actually terrifying
sudden dagger
When you were saying you were leveling up keepsakes
mystic vale
Well that's on my main file.
mystic vale
My second is for researching stuff I forgot early on. :p
sudden dagger
Oh lol
cunning urchin
I know it's from SC. Just saying I use it because of FFXI lol.
Leveling up keepsakes is a good idea.
You'll get a better understanding of all the different mechanics.
sudden dagger
Fishing seemed really random whether you got the fish or got "too early", so I gave in and looked on the wiki, and discovered the difference between fake and real bobs
mystic vale
Usually Zag mentions something about it right after you exit.
dry ember
Yeah to rub it in
Thank you Zag for reminding me I forgot a fish. I could have lived well enough not knowing that, but now I do and I can't change that zzz.
mystic vale
Zag: Not just a jerk to his dad.
smoky wolf
Man, I always visually scour the area, even when I know I'm not even eligible for one yet.
mystic vale
Finally got all the boon-related prophecies done, so now I never need to do anything except play smart. Or fake it.
smoky wolf
On an unrelated note, is there anywhere to read about what the different benefits package buffs do? Some of them don't read very intuitively from a visual perspective to me.
mystic vale
smoky wolf
Ahhh, thanks
smoky wolf
I hadn't figured out what the heck the ring buff was doing, among others
Yeah bruiser sucks
I just don't really like benefits package as a pact option tbh
smoky wolf
You don't really know what you're signing up for
dry ember
Hmm
desert nacelle
If u dodge the attack, the recieve dmg things wont trigger right?
unkempt pagoda
nope
mystic vale
If you do max Lasting Consequences, does Nourished Soul pull you back above 0% or no?
mystic vale
Cold Fusion is nice.
desert nacelle
but this one https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/712749399700406294/713077483632853083/unknown.png
was easiest so far
🥳
How works the dash attack on bow, I should dash and attack or charge and then dash
unkempt pagoda
all dash attacks are dash -> attack
desert nacelle
okay 
mystic vale
When does Heat 57 Guan Yu happen? :p I should probably check YT.
Nope, YT says it hasn't happened.
agile prism
Also dash attack on bow makes the charge up faster for bow
proven robin
What's the special dash cancel on the sword? Like, dashing before the sword special completes?
magic dagger
agile prism
Yeah dash before special completes and you dash before it hits. It’ll hit wherever you dash to
mystic vale
MSQS is the way to do GY.
proven robin
....Jesus Christmas.
sudden dagger
turbid needle
Hades does that better
naive tusk
@flat brook I had an idea with your feedback: incorporate Dire Misfortune to Vicious Cycle, except every tick from Blade Rifts raises the Doom damage instead of Doom effects doing so.
Wouldn't that be better? And it incorporates both of Ares' traits 😅
mystic vale
I'm glad there isn't a forest biome. Ever since Legend of Zelda, forests seem cursed to be mazes. Last thing this game needs is a maze. :p
naive tusk
Are you forgetting water temples?
pliant palm
Wdym, a maze + TD sounds fun, no ?
umbral lagoon
grinding blood is getting really monotonous
4 death defiance run kek
shield too easy
how do you guys keep grinding and still enjoy this game?
pliant palm
Trying different build, pushing the heat higher than needed
flat brook
@flat brook I had an idea with your feedback: incorporate Dire Misfortune to Vicious Cycle, except every tick from Blade Rifts raises the Doom damage instead of Doom effects doing so.
Honestly, i'd accept anything that ties both archetypes together hahah but that's a nice idea as well
pliant palm
things like that
flat brook
let's see if sgg does change something about it
pliant palm
When I feel like it gets repetitive I just... stop playing
Come back maybe a week after
desert nacelle
pliant palm
Makes it quite a lot more enjoyable imo
eager scarab
Yeah that's true
pliant palm
But there is often a break point in rogue lites for me
Like Binding of Isaac, I still love the game, but when I come back to it I'm not having fun
eager scarab
I'll clarify: when it gets repetitive and I still enjoy it, I put on a pod, when it gets repetitive but I've stopped having fun, I walk away
pliant palm
Isaac ?
eager scarab
Hades
primal sigil
I've put in 600 hours into Isaac, but stopped after completing a file. Still, I feel like the game has enough variance to keep it exciting
eager scarab
Damn
primal sigil
It helps that I started being more experimental
pliant palm
400h + some times on another PS4
primal sigil
So I play Hades the same way
mystic vale
I should go get killed again.
pliant palm
80h for Hades
primal sigil
I experiment a lot, which hurts my overall wins, but it helps keep the game fresh. I have 60ish hours in Hades
pliant palm
*80h in 40 days
mystic vale
If Dwarf Fortress weren't so popular, I'd suggest stealing their motto. :p
eager scarab
I'm around 100 in, with hades
desert nacelle
110 
eager scarab
Longest played game on PC for me
mystic vale
Let's see...Heat 4 Rail, LC 1, Heightened Security, and Routine Inspection.
primal sigil
@musti damn you Captain!
umbral lagoon
Next update in June tho pog
pliant palm
Wait, nvm
umbral lagoon
hoping i'll find a weapon i'll like
primal sigil
The weapon I have the least luck with is the Bow
mystic vale
The odd combos is for prophecies.
I want an axe and hammer but they're not very...Greek.
desert nacelle
okay
pliant palm
Had a run today with exploding shot + twin on a run with FO
Wasn't fun
Sloooow shots
umbral lagoon
i have the most runs with bow kek
desert nacelle
Vine + special
umbral lagoon
I just spam special cause aspect of chiron
desert nacelle
flat brook
Hades and TFT updates both in june + finals, that's too much suffering for me
primal sigil
Had a run today with triple mortar quick shot with exegesis (gun so?) That had hangover effects. Still lost to Hades
idle drum
Not able to post in the Feedback form, but opening up my current boons for viewing doesn't pause the game, which is weird as it does take away control. Annoying if I quit in the middle of a run then come back and want to check in the middle of a fight what my current boons/curses are.
eager scarab
?rank early access to post in feedback @idle drum
fast shardBOT
That rank doesn't exist.
eager scarab
Lol
primal sigil
TFT?
idle drum
?rank
fast shardBOT
sudden dagger
So did Dionysus get a big overall? I was watching an old let's play where he had poison
flat brook
Not able to post in the Feedback form, but opening up my current boons for viewing doesn't pause the game, which is weird as it does take away control. Annoying if I quit in the middle of a run then come back and want to check in the middle of a fight what my current boons/curses are.
yeah, i think i've made a feedback for that a while ago, but i think there's no harm in posting it again
turbid needle
He's always had poison, it was just renamed.
umbral lagoon
I think the boon menu is a bit buggy too