Nothing like finally making an Electric Shot build work and then losing two DDs to Lernie because it kept jumping to him first bounce every time.
#h1-builds-and-combat
turbid needle
cunning urchin
How about planning an Artemis cast build with Poseidon Aspect, getting Epic True Shot room 1, and then she never shows up again. 
naive laurel
true shot imo is icing on cake
it's really, really good w/ 1 pom and no support
Sadly, heart rend's prereq is only atk and special, iirc
earnest ravine
Yeah, but I'm guessing she waas trying for Fully Loaded or something.
turbid needle
That's a troll run.
proud storm
you need at least artemis' attack or special and aphro's attack, special, dash or cast
one from each
cunning urchin
I wanted to try something like this again, but she was like "See ya!" https://i.imgur.com/EgdsW5X.jpg
naive laurel
If u really really want this...
get arthority
But I still, enjoying planning the run on the fly more
cunning urchin
Yeah, I don't remember what I ended up with, but I think I finished the run.
turbid needle
You should have seen the Long Winter speedruns, people beating the game in under 5 minutes with True Shot.
naive laurel
was it broken or something, lul
cunning urchin
I was about to make a joke about adding materia slots to Zag's weapons, but I just realized the boon slots are basically that.
naive laurel
self thonk 
I like it
turbid needle
It was stronger and you didn't need Exit Wounds for Fully Loaded, so most/all the WR runs had Fully Loaded by the Bloodless miniboss and Flurry Cast by the Fury.
naive laurel
2bh, fully loaded unaquirable by the unstuckable casts is hurtful.
turbid needle
Yeah, I'm really hoping that gets changed.
soft pine
o/
soft pine
don't ask me to math at 5am
rich cedar
its an hour to noon dude
naive laurel
It is
and it's +20% applied in the end, cuz it's multiplicative
also, leave the math to me if u want to, hide 
rich cedar
what do you mean its multiplicative
rich cedar
I dont think it is
naive laurel
if u got a chaos boon 100% on special
and 40% on special from artemis
it's 240% dmg
ignoring all other dmg boost
the 15% of crit, on the special
in the long run, amps the total dmg by 30%
rich cedar
yeah so thats additive then
rich cedar
its multiplier but its not multiplicative
naive laurel
it is
rich cedar
okay lets try then
naive laurel
it's another phase
rich cedar
normally i do 100 dmg
rich cedar
with 10 % crit i do 120 dmg
rich cedar
ok
naive laurel
Imma re-structure all the things for u, sec
if u got a chaos boon 100% on special
and 40% on special from artemis
it's 240% dmg
ignoring all other dmg boost
the 15% of crit, on the special
it's 240%* ( 85% * 100% + 15%*300%)
the latter part is multiplied on the 240% total boost from additive sources
your 240% have 15% chance of doing 300% dmg, and 85% chance of doing 100% dmg
The latter, in ()'s, is 130%, which is multiplied onto the base boost
This is exactly why chaos likes artemis
rich cedar
So its not multiplicative but always a linear percentage?
Im not sure how it can be multiplicative by itself
when it always adds a linear percentage of dmg on top of your other normal % increases
soft pine
Artemis is also known as the Goddess of Multiplicative
naive laurel
Oh, it doesn't add a linear because it's not actually +%
rich cedar
I understand how it works now
naive laurel
it's a equivilant +% in a whole other source,
rich cedar
but im not sure i would call it multiplicative
naive laurel
yeah I see u get it
rich cedar
as much as i would call it a multiplier
it always multiplies your other % who are added together first
naive laurel
I mean, wording is superficial
rich cedar
by a flat amount
naive laurel
u get the idea, that's good enough for the knowledge imo
pliant palm
I'm having so much trouble choosing the rights boons for sword/spear/bow, idk why... Can't make decent builds 
cunning urchin
That was way too close. 
https://imgur.com/v8EEC4h
pliant palm
Always feels like I'm lacking damage when I hit Elysium, which doesn't happen with the other weapons
weak rivet
how fast do you take damage when you reach the time limit?
soft pine
It's not insurmountable if you have a couple of DDs left, but you'd better hope the Minotaur is down and Theseus is at at least half health.
cunning urchin
I was taking 5 damage every second or two, I think? Something like that.
soft pine
I wonder if it does more damage when Than is jilted. XD
lament coral
nope
cunning urchin
Ended up working out alright, Epic Greatest Reflex in Styx. https://imgur.com/a/zHA75dH
grave compass
Not sure how i post this in 'feedback' but i think the wording in the keepsakes needs to be a bit more dscriptive of their actual effect
Wanted to do a cold fusion run so in asphodel i switched to the demeter keepsake for 'next boon is demeter' and then hopefully i can rng some boons after that
I just made it to the hydra and i saw zero demeter boons...
Its not run ending but it can be a bit annoying when this happens 😅
rugged estuary
@grave compass All they do is when you roll a boon reward in a room, it will be that god (demeter in your case)
asphodel is short, and it can happen that you dont see a boon during it if you're unlucky
the keepsakes dont increase your chance at actually getting a boon
grave compass
Yeah thats just why i think the wording could just be better
If it says "the next boon will be from demeter" then my next boon shouldnt be ares
As i did see other boons
rugged estuary
well, that isn't supposed to happen
if you saw ares, that means one of the other doors had to be demeter
if that wasn't the case, that's a bug
grave compass
Probably just an unlucky bug in my case then 😅
I feel like its happened before though
Ah well - im now hunting for vengeful mood instead - it can just slow momentum if youre really trying for a duo
rugged estuary
they always worked as intended for me so far.
if it happens again, make sure to report it with the tool (F10)
grave compass
Will do - thanks anyway 😁
neon fiber
It’s happened several times to me too
I think it generally involves Hermes breaking it
cunning urchin
What's good on Chaos Shield?
dense locust
ares special
anyone know if zeus attack works really well on guan yu's spin attack?
cunning urchin
I went with Artemis, I'll try Ares next time.
grave compass
I just tried it - it doesnt really add much
rich cedar
Maybe if you have a group really clustered
dense locust
okay
grave compass
Probably better for a curse as you can spread it out
lament coral
Ares and Dio are good on Chaos
cunning urchin
Artemis special and Demeter attack wreak everything pretty fast too.
gray lintel
@cunning urchin old speedruns used Ares special, Athena dash or attack, and Ares/Athena duo to instantly trigger doom on hitting with deflect damage.
with the chaos shield
that build's been superceded by exaglyph I think, but it's still really effective IMO
otherwise: Shield is just all around good with decently fast hitting attacks and good special.
naive laurel
That blizzshot iirc is really late game aquirement
the explosive artemis special carried early run
also, I think I never spinned once on using hades aspect
Did get a run earlier w/ 7 min deadline, died to hades sadly
this is just a typical "everything comes together" run of guanyu aspect
I think hades died in 50s
flat brook
can you get dual shot if you have crush shot? theoretically it says i could, but i've gotten like 7 artemises and not once has it appeared
lament coral
that's just bad luck
naive laurel
Nothing prevents duo shot from appearing, unlike exit wounds
flat brook
trying to make crush shot good, if i get dual shot i can get exit wounds and the legendary, right?
naive laurel
yes, but imo relying on that is a bit difficult
close range constant cast animation can get u a lot of dmg taken
neon fiber
A miserable little pile of thwacks!
lament coral
I believe Hera has some issues with Aphro cast, with either the cast missing entirely or not lodging
saw that being reported in feedback a few weeks ago
turbid needle
They've done some work to fix Crush Shot and Hera interaction (your Bloodstones shouldn't get stuck in walls anymore), but Crush Shot itself seems to have hit detection/lodging issues in and of itself.
soft pine
Only half-decent synergy with Crush Shot is to pair it with Demeter's Snow Burst and Hera bow, ideally with Fully Loaded and crit on attack/dash.
turbid needle
Given it has the third highest base damage of any Cast, I'd say it's got pretty good synergy with more Aspects than just Hera.
soft pine
true, but as @naive laurel mentioned, it's hard to use straight-casting in melee. Not impossible, but more difficult than it probably should be.
earnest ravine
And the hitbox even outside of Hera bow seems like it misses things directly in your face.
Which, haha get good with it, but it's annoying seeing a pink wave go through an enemy and see zero damage on it.
soft pine
yeah, I heard it was glitchy so I haven't tried it myself
gray lintel
i miss old crush shot
earnest ravine
I missed six point blank shots on Hydra heads and just... gave up on it.
soft pine
same
turbid needle
It actually had worse hit detection from close range when it was still Scatter Shot.
soft pine
not much of a shot, really
neon fiber
I got trippy shot and that one boon that makes a second cast fire
The festive fog was so thicc i couldn’t even see what was inside of it
gray lintel
scatter shot was weird
earnest ravine
Yeah, because it like... originated from a bit in FRONT of Zag instead of on him, right?
soft pine
more of a bleh
gray lintel
no it originated from either side
earnest ravine
that explains a few things
gray lintel
you had two spread-fire cones on either side of zag
turbid needle
Yeah, it was a weird converging blast that left a blind spot right in front of Zag.
gray lintel
if I remember correctly
earnest ravine
Heck, even like, sword swing range would be suitable.
That might be stretching it, but it'd at least reliably hit things at that point.
turbid needle
...It does have more range than Stygius.
soft pine
or swap the width and length so it's a narrow beam right in front of you
earnest ravine
If it does, it's really hard to use it right or has a deceptive animation. the latter seems more likely, since I trust your experience.
turbid needle
I don't think the blast goes all the way out to end of the animation (thought it absolutely should).
earnest ravine
Yeah, agreed.
lament coral
in theory, Aphro cast should be the cast of choice if you're doing a Talos cast run
in reality, both the Talos pull and cast animation are just too bloody slow
soft pine
but...ice wine...
turbid needle
I like Slicing Shot with Talos, I throw the Blade Rift then grab someone and then spend a few seconds juggling them in the Rift.
soft pine
standing on one side of a wall with a mob on the other side and you're chain-slamming him into the wall and dousing him with ice wine, that's AWESOME
never gets old
mossy breach
can you have Scintillating Feast and ice wine or do they block each other?
turbid needle
You can have both.
mossy breach
that must be nasty
soft pine
so nasty
turbid needle
It's... I wouldn't say busted, but it's very very good.
soft pine
best run I've had with it it was doing over 1k damage with talos debuff
and even just with ice wine I was 2-shotting hydra heads
rugged estuary
you can also have cold fusion with those two
basically a dio / demeter / zeus duo boon trinity
super sick
soft pine
does cold fusion really help with scint feast though? they're getting hit by lightning almost every second
rugged estuary
it does something if they move out, but yeah, its not as important
soft pine
they can't leave, talos won't let them. XD
mossy breach
My best run was with Hera bow and full artemis: cast, double cast, damage on dislodge, +3 casts and Chaos gave me +2 also. I killed both asterius and theseus with 2 shots
It was also my luckiest run
soft pine
I never find rare/epic +bloodstone from chaos, and even the common one he makes you suffer fo
Oh, here's a spreadsheet I made with all the Duo boon prereqs and boon progressions, helps me plan on the fly: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NtC821mhJLeUXE61SaIOe6q-GPYXs22A/view?usp=sharing
had to fix some formatting from converting to google sheets, should be right now
flat brook
in reality, both the Talos pull and cast animation are just too bloody slow
When i use talos i just dash out of the special animation as soon as he pulls, so in 0.1s i get the pull and the damage bonus and just attack away
naive laurel
late reply here, but imo crush shot should just be a circle around zag on press
flat brook
in my previous run crush shot two-shot each mini hydra head
but that might have been achilles
imo it should be the most damaging cast since it has the lowest range
a duo improving it wouldn't hurt as well
feels like the shotgun cast, but it doesn't deal nearly enough damage
cunning urchin
It applies weak though. Weak is strong.
soft pine
there are easier ways to apply weak
grave compass
Just had a very fun one with world smasher chaos shield
Got deflect attack, aphro special, and artemis cast which were quite effective
soft pine
Nice, facetank build. 👍
cunning urchin
I wanted to face tank with Divine Strike on the Twin Fists in my last run, but Athena thought showing up only once and not offering me that was enough.
To be fair, it was; because I just face tanked with her Epic Call instead.
<--proudly hiding under Athena's shield
Oh right, she gave me Divine Dash in Styx too. I forgot. https://imgur.com/a/sjadlpr
soft pine
Hey, she's a busy goddess.
cunning urchin
She gave me just what I needed and no more. I'm not complaining.
mighty ermine
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/704896475049623613/20200428222322_1.jpg fast.. 😳
weak rivet
Ruthless is fun
mighty ermine
extremely!
flat brook
that second to last one is the only debatable one
we don't know if it does anything meaningful yet
mighty ermine
that's definitely one i have flipped around on yeah
it's either or, haven't been strict about it
orchid jay
hello friends
is there also planned a multiplayer option for this awesome game?
orchid jay
why? 😦
mighty ermine
it's what the devs want for the game
and there's not much of a narrative reason for mp to exist
orchid jay
much more fun?
for lot of people thats a big point they need why they even would buy this game
neon fiber
dabbing on your friends is always a good narrative reason
mighty ermine
zag dabbing on palette swap zag 2020
orchid jay
it is the reason why my friends wont buy this game. and they played with me games like pagan online, which is basically exactly the same. and pagan online also costs around 21 bucks.
with multiplayer option
mighty ermine
SGG isn't gunning for any multiplayer demographic with Hades, i dunno what to tell you
flat brook
we aren't the devs lol what do you want us to do?
tranquil robin
They've already said the design and narrative of Hades has been built with a singleplayer experience in mind
opal bay
yeah at the current state of build and way it got in, it's very unlikely for a co-op to be a thing
maybe modders can cook up something
but beyond that, it's very unlikely.
gray lintel
it's heavily unlikely tbh, i am unsure if there's even any internet connectivity in the game?
on the fountain thing in feedback: I think it is intentional that fountains are in awkward spots(one of them is in between the path of two sawblade traps) although I do agree that they are a little non-responsive sometimes when it comes to healing.
woeful maple
it feels like you have to active them exactly from the front sometimes?
flat brook
i'm starting to think that crush shot is incompatible with dual shot
in 3 different games i had seen artemis 6+ times and dual shot was never offered
now in 2 games without crush shot, dual shot is my 2nd artemis boon offered
neon fiber
multiplayer except you play as hades and your job is to make the other player's life harder
flat brook
i'd play that
or play as thanatos, spawn infinite enemies and don't kill them
Secret to make crystal beam good: just highroll eurydice, get lucky with dual shot, have 3 cast stones, +30 cast damage item and achilles for 250% damage casts https://i.imgur.com/4qdtwHr.jpg
You could use a tenth of that to make trippy shot good but that's another story
naive laurel
Been there, I think hades died in 50s, w/ only epic lvl 3 beam and achilles 2 cast stones
It really really should apply chill stacks
soft pine
^
flat brook
Ares dash run, slightly weaker than poseidon's but just as fun https://i.imgur.com/4oDRhFL.jpg
whiffed the legendary pretty hard 
neon fiber
Shame you didn’t get hunting blades with that
flat brook
it was supposed to be a hunting blades run, but room 1 ares didn't have cast, so i just went with the epic dash
gilded lily
Does bouldy's buff count towards family favorite?
gilded lily
darn. that'd be so sweet
flat brook
if you've got artemis cast aphro and athena are good
neon fiber
athena so you can get the duo i guess?
flat brook
anything is good, but aphro for broken resolve and athena for deadly reversal are especially good
balmy zephyr
sure but i mean if i dont want hunting blades
flat brook
and since you'll be machinegunning casts, demeter's snow burst is also great
balmy zephyr
right i have tryed demeter but i try to stay far away from enemies so i did not find it great
flat brook
well, the bulk of your damage will be from artemis herself, so really anything works with her
balmy zephyr
ya makes sence
smoky wolf
So is there anything i'm missing about the Aspect of Hades for the spear? Spin attack is so damn slow and clunky that it just seems an inferior option to almost any other weapon
neon fiber
yeah, aspect of hades is generally not that well regarded
neon fiber
oh, nice
eager scarab
First time too so it fulfilled a propehcy
weak rivet
i mean
you can do eet
ive beaten the game with stubborn and im a dummy you can do it
neon fiber
hey at least you can clutch on divine protecc
that thing's really helpful
eager scarab
I always need a second life for the final so I'll have to play better
Oh wait I forgot I have skelly's tooth lmao
This is a run I stopped in the middle of a couple days back so I forgot what keepsake I used
flat brook
skelly's tooth is my most used styx keepsake, so good
balmy zephyr
shelly's tooth is def a good styx keepsake, I also really like broken spearpoint esp if I still have full death defiences
turbid needle
If I've got one or fewer DDs upon entering Styx, I use the Tooth.
balmy zephyr
ya I usally do broken spearpoint if 2-3 DDs and tooth if 0-1
thou if i have 0-1 DD going into styx Im almost always not going to have a successful attempt
gilded lily
If I have only one boon from a god, and it gets replaced, do I lose the family favorite bonus from that god?
orchid jay
hello, which is the souvenir between ACORN and OWL necklace? its the only one that is left
i just gave some honey to all the characters i could find. this one stays grey
flat brook
it's from patroclus, the npc at elysium
Didn't imagine demeter's dash would be this good lol demeter dash run faster than posi dash https://i.imgur.com/xNo6haY.jpg
gilded lily
aspect of achilles is garbage. change my mind
gilded lily
ya
so mad. I just had 3 heroic boons... I used 6 dds and couldn't kill hades. Like. trash damage. regardless of what you pick, you MUST do a cast build on this sorry excuse for a weapon
flat brook
what boons did you have?
if you did a dash run like me it wouldn't matter what weapon you picked 
gilded lily
I hit hades more than I've hit him with any other weapon, and it barely passed the first phase
cunning urchin
Divine Attack does low damage, so I'm not surprised.
gilded lily
109% increase, 100% dash damage from artemis, 84% dash damage increase from chaos... what am i missing here? I'm fairly certain a tube of hamburger meat would have been more effective
flat brook
did you have serrated edge? or whatever the hammer upgrade is called
gilded lily
and there's my problem. NEEDING one thing to make a weapon effective should imply the weapon is underpowered. That's an issue. I have to bet an entire run on one single chance... thus my frustration
flat brook
i mean, you NEED hunting blades to make slicing shot useful, but i've never seen anyone calling slicing shot underpowered
i think the word in that case is situational, not underpowered
gilded lily
slicing shot is not a weapon
not being combative, but do you see my point? an entire weapon needs a specific boon to work is bad. a boon requiring another boon, that's not bad in my opinion, you can work around that
lament coral
am I missing something? You have no attack
flat brook
i see your point but i think you're exaggerating a bit
gilded lily
Ya, probably the frustration talking. I tend to exaggerate. Bad habit of mine
flat brook
part of hades as with every roguelike is adapting to what the game gives you
you threw all of your eggs in the "dash strike" basket, but whiffed the hammer
it happens
did you have any other damage boons, like deadly reversal, pressure points?
gilded lily
I've been noticing a lot of hit box issues as well, during this run. cost me 2 dds that shouldn't have happened
ya, had pressure points, heroic
flat brook
hitbox of you hitting the enemies or enemies hitting you?
gilded lily
enemies hitting around pillars I'm hiding behind
flat brook
if you mean hades lazors then yeah, it's frustrating
gilded lily
or, my reflect not reflecting
ya. figured I was just bad, oh well.
zeppman, I had athena attack
festive fog, epic
ares ultimate, epic
2 dionysus damage mitigation perks, epic
honestly, seemed like it should have been a breeze. just got hosed
Do you guys like aphro's dash?
I can never seem to get it to work, but it always seems like it's the better rarity when it comes ut
*up
cunning urchin
I mainly get it when I don't have Weak on attack, special, or cast.
orchid jay
what do i have to do to get patroclus name (its only '?????') and how can i get his items? give him more honey? (i already did several times..)
turbid needle
Check the Codex.
orchid jay
okay i did. and now give him goodies again? 😄
cunning urchin
Just keep talking to him and Achilles when you see them around.
orchid jay
where is achilles?
turbid needle
Dude, go play the game.
orchid jay
i am playing the game. im already skull lvl 9
a last question please: if i skip skull levels and instant finish lvl 15: will i be able to get the rewards from the lower tiers later? (from lvl 10, 11, 12, 13, 14) or will they be lost then?
flat brook
you're at 9 heat and haven't seen achilles?
if you've got a 10 heat bounty, anything above that won't skip that level: you'll get the 10 heat bounty when playing with 15 heat
so extra heat is technically unnecessary for bounties
orchid jay
i dunno dude 😆 im more the guy of fighting, i actually skip the talkin, sorry man 😅
so if i do 15 i can go back to 10 again and will get the lvl 10 rewards? (with a weapon)
the game is becoming actually too easy atm, but im scarred to miss some titan bloods
cunning urchin
If you do 15 Heat, you'll get the 10 Heat bounty. So no, if you go down to 10 Heat afterwards, you won't get the bounty because you already got it.
orchid jay
so step for step makes sence, thx man
cunning urchin
Woman.
orchid jay
uhm, how could i oversee this mylady. i appreciate
cunning urchin
Achilles is in the House of Hades.
orchid jay
tyvm honeymoon of my life 😗 ❤️
cunning urchin
orchid jay
is there any specific use of ambrosia? i always change it into titan bloods... does it make sence to 'spare'?
balmy zephyr
There are npcs that after you give I think 5 nector you can give ambrosia to and that give you a legendary keepsake
They are very powerful abilitys that you can upgrade up to 5 uses per run for a lot to f ambrosia
Upgrade to use 5 times per run*
balmy zephyr
My fav is sisyphus's unlike most of them you can use it as n the final boss it does 1000dmg and give use a small amount of darkness and gold and 5-6 Heath pickups worth 10 health each
orchid jay
sounds great dude. sisyphus alright 😄 lets rock <3!
thats exactly the guy who doesnt want to talk to me yet lol
lets see if i meet him this run again haha
after i talked to him enough he will appear in elysium aight?
orchid jay
okay ill watch out for him. any specific choice i should take? or give him honey every time?
torpid turret
Is charged skewer supposed to give increased special range?
Because this boy has got some increased range
I have 5 dashes and can't even dash to see where the special ends lmao
Its crosses an entire big elysium room
bro this is nuts hahah
mighty ermine
wow, i've had this happen a couple patches ago but assumed it had been fixed since then
wild
torpid turret
naive laurel
After experimenting, serrated edge almost always loses me runs cuz of both the shorter dash and the increased atk animation
self-stun is bad, period
torpid turret
Yeah I did a run with it earlier, had 5 dashes, still felt pretty bad
The self-stun is terrible
naive laurel
me and @dense locust 's idea is...either shorten the animation to the same of normal dash atk, or allow us to break the triple with another dash
-20% dash range Imo is enough of a trade off
torpid turret
Yeah I'd hope it can just work like other dash attacks, similar to spread fire
Weak dong giving out tips now aye
dense locust
whoa bro i'm given out tips all the time
so this Weak dong fella may be some new poster here
Flurry jab is so much better than serrated edge
it reminds me of Malphons
but with big aoe dash attacks
lol, its funny to think serrated edge and spread fire are sort of the equivalent hammers for the two different weapons
@torpid turret i don't see what the issue is with that range
cunning urchin
I noticed with the kick special on the Twin Fists yesterday that he's locked in animation for quite a bit. Not sure how I feel about that. The uppercut seems more versatile.
Startup is quite a bit slower too.
dense locust
@torpid turret but really, did it do that from the moment you grabbed the hammer?
ill say it does leave you a little open because you can be hit while traveling the huge range of the special
and also I find explosive upper to be better in all regards
but I haven't used the kick in a while
cunning urchin
The range is weird. Sometimes he flies across the room, sometimes he barely moves.
dense locust
well it just depends on how far the enemy is when you use it on them
but it can seem huge because if you use it close to max range on an enemy and they move away
Then i think you just keep flying at them
not sure what happens if they teleport
maybe they can't once you're flying at them
cunning urchin
Hmmm yeah. Seems to be the only attack to behave that way. I don't find it very intuitive to use quite yet. Maybe I'll experiment with it more.
dense locust
the thing is, it's arguably weaker than explosive upper in ever aspect unless you use it as a sort of extra dash, but idk how useful that is ultimately
but i'm thinking of demeter aspect
maybe it's better with the other 2
cunning urchin
Yeah, the movement might be useful. Also can't give good feedback on it without trying it more.
torpid turret
@dense locust No when I went to Eurydice, do you really not see the difference? I have a clip I can link for reference on the normal range
dense locust
lol no it's obviously mega broken
cunning urchin
Also I have to say, I expected more this: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe6f473b5719c40df7812d7dec71a546.webp.
dense locust
your no charge shot is like the full range
cunning urchin
y u no thumbnail
dense locust
@torpid turret
cunning urchin
But what I got was this: https://media1.tenor.com/images/77d473844604da890567395a00a733b5/tenor.gif?itemid=7557436
dense locust
sorry, i know i shouldn't use sarcasm on the internet
dense locust
@cunning urchin actually from what I remember when using it, you do kinda get both, the first being max range, the second being close range
acoustic cosmos
where do i report bugs with screenshots?
dense locust
so the room after eurydice it got bugged? what upgrade did you take? what boon on special?
acoustic cosmos
my cast went through the wall and i couldnt get it back with attraction
dense locust
F10
cunning urchin
F10 for bug reports.
acoustic cosmos
thanks
dense locust
but it may use the screen you're currently on, i don't remember if you can attach Screen shots or not
cunning urchin
I'm pretty sure yesterday he always did a Somersault Kick, just with different forward momentum.
dense locust
its possible they changed the animation since I used it i suppose
I just remember when I was first using it, you fly in the air at the enemy and then do the somersault kick
and thought it was pretty cool
cunning urchin
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's still a somersault.
And yeah, it's pretty cool. Just the icon is a flying side kick.
dense locust
huh, from my memory, the close range kicks were somersault kicks but the long range ones were flying
naive laurel
late agane, but for me, advancing kick is the TD rusher, that's it
But 2bh, I barely do special build on fist anymore
dense locust
Fist is the ultimate hybrid build for me
at least on demeter aspect
Having arty special and explosive upper is a huge power boost, but then you can do athena or demeter fists for safe damage, maybe aphro or ares cast
cunning urchin
TD?
Poseidon Aspect has zero synergy with Stygian Soul.
Well, not zero because it's still a damage buff, but the dislodge on Special actively hurts it.
naive laurel
tight deadline
dense locust
Yeah poseidon aspect and old cast need a rework, or stygian soul needs a nerf. Or aspects that are specific to one version of a mirror trait could maybe change depending on which trait you took. I still take stygian soul with poseidon aspect because of the 50% cast damage
naive laurel
well, the synergy is...u can cast a lot more even w/o the dislodge
so the 50% is worth more
yep
dense locust
but I also think some things are meant for earlier in your hades career. For example, I used poseidon aspect more than anything up until about 13 heat (this was before stygian soul) but it felt strong, and it's only 1 blood to unlock the dislodge ability
naive laurel
And....u don't build special if u are using poseidon w/ stygian, imo
unless u got exit wounds, which would turn special into a huge burst, ofc
dense locust
Poseidon aspect with styigan soul can also work with exit wounds
yeah
that was my main build when I started out, but with the other cast
quickly toss in your casts, dash in and special, and its a lot of single target damage
with exit wounds
and you can immediately repeat that
cunning urchin
I don't see how you can cast more with Stygian Soul.
tepid ridge
The burst damage might be better with certain ammo combos but Stygian soul can get like 8 casts stuck in the enemy at once. It’s less in the moment but more accessible frequent firing on average I believe.
cunning urchin
5 without extra casts. They stick for 15 sec and regenerate every 3 sec.
The burst damage from 3 casts kills most things, so you can pick up immediately and cast again—or dislodge with Poseidon and cast again.
Hmm, for casts that don't stick, Stygian Soul would be faster.
tepid ridge
Casts that don’t stick definitely feel nice with stygian, and since Dio and Ares are among those, it has some pull already. I also kind of like the utility of it. I don’t have to wade into lava or a boss pattern to get my casts after they dislodge, which makes life a lot easier too.
unkempt pagoda
stygian soul shines when you have extra casts
tepid ridge
It’s true, getting a chaos gate with a grasp early is extremely 
errant narwhal
Anyone have an isolated picture of Twin Fists similar to this? https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/hades_gamepedia_en/c/c1/Eternal_Spear.png?version=8cc02611f9493df5e37b8c2d17559016
@torpid turret just uploaded it https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/hades_gamepedia_en/0/08/Twin_Fists.png?version=0fa96ecfbdfefdef95ae1a0d08e1b003
i could also get the other aspects for you, but it seems to me they dont put them on the wiki.... only in the little images in the table, and i dont think the fists page has those either
grand citrus
LMAO I just had a run with Poseidon's legendary
Top tier meme
If there was a way to get it consistently it'd be a great way to farm for gems
naive laurel
There kinda is
don't take poseidon core, only take ocean's bounty
then fill core boons asap
due to pool restrictions, the chance of u getting it would be way higher
grand citrus
Mm I'll have to try that later
torpid turret
@errant narwhal Thanks! That looks great, just what I needed
errant narwhal
it’s from the files like the others, I suppose no one grabbed it yet because the fists are newest
torpid turret
Interesting, what are these used for in-game?
pliant palm
So... I'm trying to git gud with the Stygian Blade. Is there an aspect that I should upgrade in priority ?
cunning urchin
I'm not a fan of Nemesis Aspect. I think the others are all great.
Zagreus Aspect is only 5 Titan Blood for Lv.5, so that's pretty good.
pliant palm
I guess I should at least do the requirement to get the aspect of Arthur
Best aspect overall from anyway weapon seems to be the Chaos aspect, imo
It's such a massive upgrade to the base weapon
cunning urchin
Well, that was entertaining. https://imgur.com/a/C271J6F
pliant palm
Damn, 16 min
cunning urchin
I like Zagreus Aspect Twin Fists more every time I use them.
16 min, yeah. And the fun thing is Chaos hit me with -56% or something movement speed for that Slothful Lunge.
pliant palm
I hate the speed debuff so much
heady kindle
Who are some good Hades content creators?
clear dome
does delta chamber work with vesta aspect?
cunning urchin
I like the Hades content Darren Korb creates. 
heady kindle
Me too
naive laurel
Well, for 8 times after asphodel, my boons are lowest rarity, either all common or all rarre
even reroll gives the same
and then I went to check, I don't have routine inspection on
and then I realize, I rerolled
Pretty tilting
Well, at least this is still a win. Not the run where I experienced that bs.
Shield's full block might need a nerf
https://imgur.com/DjShCiK
clear dome
finally someone realized that
earnest ravine
Considering that's the shields main draw, I don't think so. especially if that run still took you like 50 minutes.
naive laurel
I mean, I've been abusing that for a good while so
I mean, if I force good duo builds....prob will take like, 20 mins
this is the "on the fly" where i want to get 32 beat w/ this aspect asap
and this is only the 2nd try, and I've never used the aspect before
pliant palm
All my wins are like, 35min+, idk how you guys are so fast
neon fiber
They sold their souls to Hermes
earnest ravine
gotta go fast
grave compass
Just had a very fun one - slower than it could have been cos took the opportunity to grind for titans blood in styx (then ended up 36 coins short 😭 )
But never gone full offensive toe to toe with the bull and hades before
cunning urchin
My first clears were all around that too, maybe slower.
pliant palm
I guess I really need to git gud x)
earnest ravine
Speed comes with practise and time! If you want it to,, anyway.
neon fiber
What did Nemesis do? Boost attack after special aye?
grave compass
Yeah - so special boosted crit chance - then defelct dash to get behind hades and deal massive damage
cunning urchin
Focused build, relentless attacking, no Infernal Troves unless I absolutely need the healing.
grave compass
and lvl 5 heroic doom damage too - wanted a better doom build but i just needed Athena duo for prophecies so i got what i needed and nothing more i guess
cunning urchin
Getting your mirror talents up etc. helps a lot too.
pliant palm
Still having a hard time actually trying to make a build, and not just picking what seems good
But eh, that will come with more playtime and more runs
grave compass
Yeah - if im honest ive gottwn used ti going with the flow of what it gives me
The main trick is knowing who is better for what - like aphro special and athena dash
Then i just visit Chaos as many times as possible because they're my favourite 🤣
cunning urchin
Some of it, but I think a lot of it comes from discussing ideas here and hearing what worked for others.
pliant palm
Ye but in the end, it's still pretty RNG heavy anyway...
cunning urchin
Hmmm, I don't think so. RNG is a factor, but the people who clear fast or on high heat do so consistently.
earnest ravine
You can clear with pretty much any build if you're fine with going slow, or slower than your standards. But if you wnt the ultra speed (sub 15 and stuff), then yeah, it's a lot of RNG.
Speeds from like 20 to 25 are from practise.
pliant palm
Ah yeah, defo
Like with bow runs, if you take it slow you are fine
But it's eh, boring
earnest ravine
bow can go SO FAST i love it
pliant palm
From my personal experience
cunning urchin
Keepsakes can help with forcing a build. For example, in that run I equipped Athena's keepsake when I started, so she would appear first and (hopefully) give me Divine Strike. Needed 1 Fated Persuasion to get it, but I did get it. And from there I just built on that.
pliant palm
With spear and bow I always feels like I don't do any damage, pretty annoying
earnest ravine
But yeah. Even if you're not confident with a weapon, if you focus on not dying above all else, it's consistent. And the better you get at reading how to not die, the faster that gets. If that makes sense.
grave compass
In my opinion hammers make the spear
They can really help with either focussing down on attack or special side
pliant palm
What I'm doing rn is kinda ignoring to weapons I'm bad with, trying to get better with my dodges, my boons choices, etc + leveling the aspects and keepsakes, to makes the runs when I switch back to those weapon a bit less painful
earnest ravine
Which is smart!
cunning urchin
Stuff like rushing behind Snakestones in Styx as soon as you see them saves a lot of time.
pliant palm
Ah right, and trying to unlock the companions x)
But yeah, I defo see that I still have much more room for improvement
earnest ravine
The learning curve is the hardest thing to climb. Once you've gotten better at reading the enemies and knowing what your boons can do for you personally (instead of having to trust us), you'll start shaving literal minutes off of your times. Even ones you think are slow.
pliant palm
Just have to take it slow
For now
I'm trying to not play too much to not get bored of the game, already did that recently with Undermine x)
cunning urchin
@earnest ravine what kind of build do you go for with the bow and what Aspect?
build(s)*
pliant palm
Was wondering... is there really anything else than Ares that is decent for the Bow special ?
Or Aphrodite
I guess
earnest ravine
Oh, I personally use Chiron a lot and I love Demeter special, and normally a statud afflicting attack like Ares or Posi.
cunning urchin
Divine Flourish is fun on Zag and Hera Aspect. Haven't used Chiron yet.
pliant palm
Chiron is the auto-aimed special one ?
pliant palm
Ah yeah
exotic turtle
I kinda like Demeter on Chiron personally
pliant palm
This ones seems good, but at higher level
exotic turtle
With the boon that makes them explode at ten slow stacks
earnest ravine
For like, Zag bow, I usually go for big heavy damage ones and crit builds, since it has crit chance built in naturally.
pliant palm
Need more Titan blood x)
cunning urchin
The individual arrows on Chiron all apply the status?
earnest ravine
and Hera is "oh i wanna do the BIG damage" and essentially go Festive Fog or Ares bladerift boons and accept no substitutes.
Yeah!
They don't for the Zeus lightning strikes, else I'd also throw in that reccomendation.
pliant palm
Oh...
earnest ravine
And yeah, Moist, that's one of my favourites to go for.
exotic turtle
Yeh, they all apply status
pliant palm
I haven't tried yet, but does Zeus works with the Rail attack ?
pliant palm
Seems like a good idea to try that
I got Dio last time, was great
- Aphro on special, seems like the best one to get
earnest ravine
Athena spcial on rail is funny as heck
pliant palm
How so ?
cunning urchin
I always get Lightning Strike on Exagryph. It's way too good.
earnest ravine
However, if you get the rocket launcher/bomb upgrade, Artemis or Aphro can't be beat.
it turns the ENTIRE explosive radius into a reflecting zone.
pliant palm
Ic ic
rich cedar
zeus legendary on zag aspect rail is funny
pliant palm
Oh yeah, got an absolute OP run recently
Like nearly all my boons where Zeus/Poseidon
The synergies were insane
earnest ravine
Nice
earnest ravine
Demeter+Zeus+Dio are scary.
pliant palm
I'm still waiting for Ice Vine to pop up x)
Haven't seen it yet, but seems super good
cunning urchin
Also knowing what Duo Boons you want and their requirements helps a lot with speed.
pliant palm
I know for the 2 two that duo with the Dio cast
I know the revenge every x second one
But the rest, not really
marble ridge
'Limp and Moist'
earnest ravine
They normally do, yeah!
It's on the main menu in the bottom right corner, befoe you load the file.
cunning urchin
Blizzard Shot from Dem+Pos is incredibly strong, but you need Flood Shot for that. So if I want that, I'll go Poseidon first. And then if I get the cast, I'll equip Demeter's keepsake next. But if I can't get it, I'll work out something else.
cunning urchin
Yup. But also planning ahead. Going for Demeter first and then Poseidon, you need that 1 option from Poseidon. By going for Poseidon first, you have 4 Demeter options to choose from if you got the Flood Shot, or you can go a completely different route if you didn't get the Shot and no longer want to bet on it.
@earnest ravine Hammer upgrades for Hera? Also Infernal Soul or Stygian Soul?
Gonna go for Ares cast. I haven't looked into him much at all, I still haven't had his legendary lol.
earnest ravine
For Hera I do pretty similar to base Zag bow (focusing on bigger numbers mainly), really? I like Doom on Special, thouugh, for it in particular.
Also, for some reason I have a lot of success with Zeus on attack with hera compared to the other bows, but I have no idea why. It just Works so I take it almost out of superstition's sake.
cunning urchin
Alright. Hmmm, I think I wanna try Stygian Soul with it. Gonna try to get an extra cast from Chaos.
earnest ravine
Good idea, that works really well.
pliant palm
Alright, dumb question... how does the deflect works exactly ? Ik you can send back long range attacks, but what does it do to meele attacks ?
earnest ravine
The same thing! Almost every attack is reflectable.
The only things you CAN'T reflect are lasers. Everything else produces a small AOE that you can deflect.
dense locust
Attacks that result in aoe damage are very hard to deflect though
hades spin, greatshield spin, hydra skull slam, mini boss knucklehead wave that emits when it slams, or the waves from the exploding skulls, i'm not sure any of those are deflectable, or if they are, require very precise timing
i think hades and great shield spin attacks are, but the rest no
neon fiber
i don't think they are, no
you either block em with the shield or run the balls away
as fast as you can
flat brook
iirc hades spin is deflectable, but some times not shieldable, just like his spear thrust
kinda weird
lament coral
you can block it, the center of the spin just needs to be in front of the block direction
flat brook
yup, but it seems inconsistent, sometimes it blocks, sometimes it doesn't
maybe when he's in 2nd phase it becomes unblockable, idk
gray lintel
[REDACTED] biggest spin seems to be wonky with deflects and ruthless in general. Hitbox is later than the animation and deflection is iffy at best if even possible.
pliant palm
@earnest ravine Oh damn, thats way better than I thought... gonna have to try that out
earnest ravine
Yeah! It's why Athena is so busted, though the people above mentioned more exceptions that I forgot about (slams/shockwaves).
pliant palm
Was thinking it was just like a better stagger
Feel like athena would be good for the stygian blade normal attack then, hmmm
gray lintel
Weirdly better for the special if you can get the double hit.
With Aspect of Truck, I've facetanked [REDACTED] before by just spamming double special in their face. Only took damage from the big spin.
(and I had like 80% damage reduction, 500 health, and 4 death defiances so I didn't really care)
gray lintel
I am unsure exactly. Deflect seems to scale with attack speed. Attacks seem to create a seperate deflect hitbox which lasts a set amount of time, longer with lower attack speed. Is why the adamant rail special can still deflect fairly easily, because the deflect hitbox lasts a while when it lands.
pliant palm
I mean, you can start the cast again while you are still deflecting
I guess
Oooh okey
gray lintel
inversely scale?
like adamant rail: fastest attack speed deflecting attack. Attacks still got through because deflect hitbox is only active a very short time.
It's possible this data is tied to animations and manually balanced, which means that double special could have the same deflect hitbox timing as regular sword special.
pliant palm
Would make sense for balancing
gray lintel
athena cast should never be ignored too also, slow travel speed means the deflecting hitbox lasts a long time and it also has what seems to be the highest base cast damage in the game
pliant palm
Trying to think about all the the other cast boons
Dio is good
Ares is good with the right boons combo, I guess
Poseidon is pretty good too
gray lintel
okay well, second highest, forgot about aphrodite
flat brook
i'm starting to think that athena's legendary is overkill
by the time you get it, you already have so much deflect stuff it barely even matters
saves you 2 hits in a boss fight
pliant palm
GG !
neon fiber
haha lightning special goes bzzt
pliant palm
Is that Zeus on the special ?
olive badge
yeah
neon fiber
in all seriousness i've always wanted to go chaos shield zeus for the hell of it, glad to see it's actually viable
pliant palm
Had that last time
olive badge
each lightning proc a bolt
and double strike etc
really amps it up
you don't need pom because legendary damage is fixed
so just stack up on health
pliant palm
But yeah, seems really strong with Chaos aspect
pliant palm
Yeah x)
dense locust
Speed running and beating a seed are two different things. I guarantee you will never get even close to a speed run record by just running a seed and going ham
olive badge
this run isn't seeded but getting splitting bolt in tartarus is pretty insane already imo
dense locust
And I say this as a non speed runner
olive badge
so I'll just accept the fact that I suck
dense locust
I know but when you learn how insanely detailed speed running is for this, you'll understand
No
Like I said, there are two different things
They are literally different games
And that's incredibly fast for a 32
olive badge
thanks for the compliment
dense locust
Just to get it through to you, they 100% different things
gray lintel
Speedrunning from what I've seen generally involves RNG manipulation of a seed, running the same seed repeatedly to get the first few boons to carry throughout a game.
dense locust
getting a competitive speed run time involves taking an established seed from a save file someone has posted, then learning all of the intricacies of rng manipulation, then painstakingly plotting an ideal path, and then perfecting that path, all the while trying more rng manipulation to find that path that's just a little better than everyone elses
It's impressive but it's different than playing the game as the devs intended
pliant palm
tl:dr = speed running on games with random generations sucks c:
pliant palm
(not really, but like you said, it's really different, and not that interesting imo)
The only good thing is to see the limit of a game, and how good can a run be
dense locust
Well just to put it into perspective, there is a challenge to do all weapons back to back, any heat, any aspect, but time keeps running from the second you start to the second you end
and the top runs are over 2 hours
so thats 20 min per weapon
but that is real time
so you can't pause to think about what to get
and rooms in between bosses that would normally be paused still counts
dense locust
of course
olive badge
I never thought I could do this
pliant palm
Oh yeah, ofc
olive badge
dense locust
some people hate what goes into speed running
olive badge
here's the run
dense locust
and others obviously love it
pliant palm
It's just opinions x)
dense locust
its what makes this game so great
people find enjoyment in getting better at consistently doing a certain heat level without losing, others like the challenge of doing as high of heat as possible, others like speed running, others are content in challenging themselves in getting better despite the game getting too difficult for them until they can finally over come a given heat
After learning how much work is actually involved in speed running, I don't think its for me. I find enjoyment getting better and better at consistently beating 32 heats, while at the same time getting as high of heat as I can
And then sometimes Ill do 20 heats and try and build whacky builds and its a lot of fun because I've built up the skills to almost never lose while using a build I wouldn't normally try
and that's awesome to me because 20 heat used to seem impossible
flat brook
lately i've been having lots of fun trying to build around things that i deemed underpowered before
really feels like i'm extracting everything the game has to offer
dense locust
Yes exactly, ill take things i've been neglecting and its a blast, but its a great feeling to do these things with some heat because it reminds you when you struggled at those heats
i know some people are fond of the dash only build
flat brook
dash builds were a meme for me but i've been playing some lately and it's more viable than i thought lol
dense locust
the visible progress of improving is very satisfying
posiedon dash is insanely high base damage and gets overlooked
but i guess there aren't really boons to improve it
dense locust
the damage mostly comes from slams
olive badge
and splitting bolt
dense locust
yeah that too
olive badge
and double strike
naive laurel
Oh @dense locust I think the youtuber I talked about got a poseidon dash game
I saw it today
flat brook
i was yesterday at the stream, dude got a lv 30 posi dash
cunning urchin
I tried Hera with Ares cast on TD earlier, but it was way too slow. I didn't even make it to the heroes.
dense locust
And then you can make it a challenge to do dash only 32 heat
well level 30 is something
dense locust
but with how diminishing returns works
naive laurel
it's prob just 300% base
dense locust
it's probably not much better than liek 10-11
naive laurel
i presume he got sweet nectar too
dense locust
idk if there is an actual challenge around dash builds, so idk if you can use calls or not
olive badge
tbh
Billowing Strength and Proud Bearing
is my favorite combo
shame I didn't get it last run
neon fiber
Jesus
olive badge
nope
flat brook
dion dash would be better i think
early on would have been harder, but later on 5 hangover stacks would be 160+ damage
olive badge
dion dash doesn't give you sweet nectar tho
flat brook
true
olive badge
I am still shaking from the 32 heat run
gonna take a break for today
88 hours clocked in on this game
not bad I'd say
cunning urchin
119 for me, but I think quite a bit of that was afk.
heady kindle
How to make aspect of Achilles work? I've got around 10k darkness and all keepsakes, but I'm struggling with this aspect
proud storm
gamer moment https://i.imgur.com/rM4j3Gt.jpg
grand patrol
i dont know french it looks to me like zag had a frappe and an eclair bc he went to boon starbucks
proud storm
SDJFHJGHGSSG
thats why he wants to escape so bad
he wants to go to the boulangerie and eat a baguette
grand patrol
nhfgjdchjfhjfhj
jhfvhjfj i googled boulangerie and it gave me the french dictionary entry and im like . incomprehensible have a nice day
proud storm
it's french for bakery
grand patrol
ah.....
weak rivet
All i know is eclair is lightning
I think
And i only know that cause it was the name people theorized when there was a new mewtwo form revealed. In a pokemon region based on france
proud storm
the more you know
grand patrol
me in france about to get struck by lightning: ooh id love an eclair thank you
proud storm
DS<JHGJG
proud storm
"The Wretches of the Underworld recoiled from Malphon's relentless attacks, overwhelmed by its fury, unable to defend against it as one might a spear or blade. The God of the Dead, Hades, suffered the worst of it, his undying body pulverized to such an extent that even his legacy was destroyed.'' https://streamable.com/anu4hs
ignore the. WIP translation
flat brook
How to make aspect of Achilles work? I've got around 10k darkness and all keepsakes, but I'm struggling with this aspect
@heady kindle cast builds work wonders with achilles, after using the special your next 2 casts deal 250% damage
heady kindle
Thanks, does it work with Blade Rift? Or Demeter cast? Or should I go for artemis
turbid arch
I also find that Achilles Spear + Serrated Edge works rather nicely
flat brook
works with any cast, but i'd recommend trippy shot
naive laurel
Serrated Edge is still a suicide hammer for me personally
arctic ginkgo
Does anyone have any advice on how to pass through tartarus with the bow? I'm steadily getting through elysium and styx with the other weapons, but really struggling with the bow
turbid arch
Any combination of double, triple, explosive and/or chain shot
Usually takes me that much to actually not suck big time using the attack
flat brook
try basically using only dash attacks, they're faster to power shot and allow you to constantly reposition yourself
and learn the timing of the power shot so that you miss as little as possible
turbid arch
Dash Attacks are weaker than regular shots though
flat brook
power shot is when you release the attack button as soon as the indicator gets to the max range, it does a different sound
earnest ravine
Be less worried about power shots compared to getting the shots out at all. Most of the time waiting for one isn't worth it compared to doing a lot of shots very rapidly, except with Dash Attack ones where they charge super fast (even at reduced damage).
flat brook
Dash Attacks are weaker than regular shots though
not dying is the priority, and dash attacks help with that
flat brook
they're struggling to get past tartarus, i think it's a matter of learning the base weapon w/o hammers
naive laurel
Ohhh k, got it, then in that case, u either get hangover or doom on special and spam it, or use pure dash attack since normal attack locks u for 1 s roughly
proud storm
alternatively get special hammers
arctic ginkgo
Right, so a lot less normal or power shots and more dash attacks for survival, thanks
mighty ermine
chaining dash power shots is definitely a very useful bow thing to learn, but don't worry if you're not landing the power shot every single time while you're getting used to it
cunning urchin
The bow is way slower for me than all the other weapons.
Can't get through Elysium with it with TD.
cunning urchin
I used to like Hera, but it just seems awfully slow now when I could just use Poseidon Aspect and throw those casts with +50% damage instead of standing there pulling bowstrings first.
arctic ginkgo
I'm decidedly not great at it still, with half of my attempted dash strikes just being dashes Haha
I still haven't met hera, only done 8 hours hahah
cunning urchin
I mean the weapon. Hera Aspect.
arctic ginkgo
I also don't know what they are either hahaha
Whens the best time to click to initiate a dash strike?
For the bow
cunning urchin
You could land regular power shots in Tartarus pretty easily too. The thing is just you need to know when to take your shots. Try to avoid getting hit in the regular rooms, use dash a lot (invincibility frames), and focus more on survival and learning attack patterns and ranges. Also if it's a single enemy without armor (the yellow health bar), you can just keep doing power shots on them and lock them in hitstun.
I just roll my thumb over A~X (Xbox One pad), hold X for a moment, and let go at the right time.
lament coral
kbm isn't hard at all
cunning urchin
And then often immediately do another dash (and potentially dash strike). You don't really want to sit still unless you know you're safe.
cunning urchin
Well, it's just practice. Gotta suck first before you can be good. I still suck with the bow myself lol.
arctic ginkgo
Thanks, it's just so infuriating to be at least decent with everything else and then coming to the bow and being god awful Haha
lament coral
bow is weird to dash attack with because you still have to hold to get range
arctic ginkgo
Ohhh, that's good to know
lament coral
I believe the damage doesn't change, and the charge speed is faster for the dash
arctic ginkgo
Okay
cunning urchin
Wiki says dash strike damage for the bow is 20~30.
naive laurel
yep
which means fully charging it is not a must
like I said, get triple and go melee
60 base from dash atk is not bad
arctic ginkgo
If I can, i will
naive laurel
also, fyi, my bow is awful too, and I'm getting close to the part of the challenge where i need to beat 32 w/ all its aspects
prob during that I'll gain more knowledge of how to make the most of it
cuz I used to hate it most too
naive laurel
just not like any other weapon imo
cunning urchin
bootleg icewine
That's kinda bad though if you could use Poseidon Aspect and do a real Ice Wine build, no?
naive laurel
Well...real icewine needs at least 2 more boons to come online
hera trippy comes online in 1 good boon
Getting through tart imo is icewine forcing's problem
cuz obviously u'd take trippy first, but
it's hard to use against certain benefits package enemies
cunning urchin
Hm. I'll give that a try tomorrow. I tried Ares cast today and most of its damage just missed, so I didn't get much out of it at all.
naive laurel
iirc, there's been a lot of praise of hera trippy combo as the best cast for hera
cunning urchin
I could see that.
naive laurel
My personal choice is actually non-cast build endgame for heta
hera*
get zeus cast, clear first 2 biome easy
then plan the next w/ what u get on the way
Yes, zeus cast is actually pretty interesting w/ hera, as the cast stone actually sometimes return to you w/ the bounce nrg
cunning urchin
I'm not a fan of Ares boons. It's great on Chaos special, but I don't much like his boons for anything else.
naive laurel
ares on chaoes aspect atk is actually my perfered, if weak is not available
special is 100% dio all day
then ares on bow special is also doable as a safe room dmg
and...I think that's basically it for me in matter of using ares
oh, maybe on nemesis special
curse of longing works for nemesis, weirdly but certainly
since the window for special is 3s, and u either get doom dmg every 1.1s or 1.6s
makes it decent value while u dish out the attacks
cunning urchin
I usually just get his passive boons or his call if I can't get another. Any call is better than no call.
flat brook
yeah, either you go full ares or no ares (take his passives if he insists)
cunning urchin
His cast feels pretty awful without tier 2 boons.
flat brook
if you're not going for a cast build, dio, ares and demeter casts are straight downgrades
since you lose the boiling blood debuff
naive laurel
dio is arguable, but other 2 completely true
flat brook
first time i've ever seen a full common boon choice while using the keepsake and both mirror rarity improvements https://i.imgur.com/yHXMsss.jpg
naive laurel
to be fair tho, dio cast is still pretty strong considering it needs to offset the losing of stone lodging
Bro
i got a game earlier
rerolled twice
9 common boon choices
next upgraded boon are triple rare
then 3 boons in a row, all commons, rerolled once
i had 7 rerolls, 1 after this bad luck fest
flat brook
oof
naive laurel
literally cost me a good run by the whole lack of luck
and, ofc, Patroclus didn't show up either
35 heat chaoes shield, was in the bad w/ epic dio on special
cunning urchin
Patroclus gave up on you that run, too.
cunning urchin
I gotta practice EM3. I only did it once and lost 3 DDs and most of my life lol. Way too close for comfort.
naive laurel
Even If I have only lvl 4+ dio and 1 other boon, I can handle the whole run By block abuse
but game just...f's me over
EM 3 Imo is Not much harder
cunning urchin
Probably, but I had no idea what was coming.
naive laurel
u just need the practice, cuz dodging rockets becomes habit after a while
I've been walking in red circles to dodge Asterius for a while
naive laurel
or dash I-framing rockets
welp
that was a bit too C--ky sometimes So I still take Rocket dmg
bursting down Asterius Imo is key
FO 40 imo shouldn't buff turn rate
cunning urchin
I used Guan Yu if I remember correctly.
cunning urchin
Highest heat for me atm is Guan Yu, but I'm looking into getting the Twin Fists up after having my best run yet today with them. I really like Zag Twin Fists.
naive laurel
I have made a comparison, he basically starts with 2 common Hermes boons (attack and dodge), pretty good value
cunning urchin
Yeah, and the attack hammer upgrades are really good.
That's the one.
Upgrades were:
Your Attack sequence ends with a +60% damage Dash-Strike.
Your Attack deals +5 damage for each uninterrupted hit to a foe.
With Pressure Points and Hide Breaker for extra brutality.
flat brook
dash attack wet dream
never realized how much of a call charge farm ares dash is. might start picking it up more often
neon fiber
Blenders are great for charging calls overall
gray lintel
ares dash does a surprising amount of damage anywho
cunning urchin
@pliant palm oh yeah, also for faster runs either make sure you have enough raw DPS that you can cut through armor like butter, get a hammer upgrade that cuts through armor, or get Artemis attack/special/cast + Hide Breaker (crits do extra damage vs armor).
Armored enemies don't get stunned, which means you need to evade their attacks, which means you're not attacking, which means you're slowing down. So you want to cut down that armor asap.
That's what's been working for me anyway.
gray lintel
cause it's not listed: according to the wiki, blade dash lasts 0.7 seconds, 0.1 damge interval, 5 hits. that is 35 base damage!
That's for common. Compare to athena dash(10). Posideon... okay his dash does 35 too, surprisingly.
aphrodite 20
cunning urchin
Ares cast damage is really good too, if only all the hits actually . . . hit.
gray lintel
demeter 15, dionysus 16(over the duration I think)
zeus 10
Aphrodite has highest base cast damage at 90. Athena second highest at 85(wow crush shot sucks?). Artemis third highest at 84(adjusted for critical hit).
ares: 10 per tick, lasts 4 seconds, 0.1 damage interval. So total duration is like... 400 base damage?
You need to have the blade rift stay on an enemy for 0.9 seconds to deal as much damage as crush shot.
proud storm
am i missinng something or are you not counting dio on purpose
gray lintel
oh uh yeah that's 100 I forgot tbh
and didn't think the base damage was that high <.<
demeter is 200 damage if you somehow keep an enemy in the beam literally the entire time
and demeter cast doesn't even apply slow?
anyway point is: if you don't mind melee(or have hera bow), ares is basically literally the best cast if you can get it on a target for even a single second.
cunning urchin
If you put your crystals in an X or triangle around your opponents, they won't miss much. Just vs Hades they miss a lot. But they can still clear his summons very fast.
gray lintel
vicious cycle makes it even crazier. Vicious cycle is a 50% damage increase over 1 second. Black Metal effectively increases it's damage due to lingering on epople for longer, Engulfing Vortex.... is much better for the dash than the cast.
and finally hunting blades is uhm... it's 3.3 seconds of lingering on someone. So 330 base damage. 
manic ermine
Ares cast does have the poor 20% pom scaling when most casts have 60%
gray lintel
iunno. TBH I don't know where to look up pom scaling for that sort of thing.
or how pom scaling works. or iterative poms 
cunning urchin
Wonder how the optimal Ares cast fares vs the optimal Ice Wine.
Hunting Blades is no more difficult to get than Ice Wine.
flat brook
optimal ice wine has also scint feast and splitting bolt
considering only hunting blades and ice wine, blades >>>>> wine in dps
but wine is a lot easier to get the full damage
turbid needle
Optimal Hunting Blades is better.
Optimal is just Hunting Blades, Engulfing Vortex, and Vicious Cycle.
cunning urchin
Er why do I say Ice Wine when I mean Blizzard Shot.