What if the rail shot ice wine
#h1-builds-and-combat
dense locust
naive laurel
crystal beam applying chill would be proper
flat brook
Aphro-demeter: Cold heart - weak enemies receive triple chill stacks
for maximum explosions
dense locust
Crystal beam not applying chill really irks me
naive laurel
yeah....and it moves slow af
soft pine
Crystal beam just irks me in general.
dense locust
if it super quickly got enemies to 10 chill
naive laurel
it's not viable in any range of high heat, already says how bad it is
flat brook
i had this build and it still did bad damage https://i.imgur.com/qdJtQSH.jpg
dense locust
Yeah I saw that
naive laurel
yeah, i rmemeber that from yesterday
I melted hades w/ beam before, but that's w/ poseidon sword
my only hades reddit post iirc
flat brook
beam should either inflict chill like ice wine or have crystal clarity out of the gate
dense locust
beam either needs more damage or any utility
earnest ravine
I think if the Athena-Zeus duo caused lightning strikes from the shield bounces or even just Jolted, it'd synergize a lot better.
dense locust
its arguably worse than no cast because it removes the ability to stick casts for boiling blood or its alt
naive laurel
zeus duos should all cause lightnings
earnest ravine
Crystal Clarity being required for consistent demeter cast damage IS just sily though and definitely needs to be looked at.
flat brook
if lightning phalanx actually did a lightning strike at each hit it would be viable imo
would tie both gods nicely
right now it's just the bad athena cast x3
earnest ravine
because I love it in concept and the damage is Spicy if you can keep it aimed but gosh is it a struggle
naive laurel
Lightning phalanx should be able to come from both casts imo
dense locust
Yeah I think that's a sensible buff @flat brook
naive laurel
and make the new cast a combination of both
it does phalanx aoe dmg and deflect, and also does the lightning dmg on hit
and bounces, ofc
earnest ravine
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
naive laurel
it's combining the idea of the casts currently, but not powerful enough cuz some aspects are taken off
mainly the lightning
dense locust
wait you can only use one lightning phalanx at a time?
naive laurel
what u mean only 1
soft pine
naive laurel
yeah, prereq
dense locust
you mean in obtaining the boon
soft pine
in any sense of the word
earnest ravine
Yeah, everyone gets shield terminology wrong, it bites
dense locust
yeah considering its a mix of both casts' effects i think thats fair
earnest ravine
No, the cast one is rounded and pointed.
A phalanx is decidedly Not because that would ruin the point of it and the formation
naive laurel
interesting..
earnest ravine
but that's pedantry for most people <.<
latent junco
hey guys
soft pine
aegis with athena special is a better athena cast
naive laurel
well, borrowing and gameplay can only compate that much
latent junco
go to random.org and put 1-20 range, let it decide what weapon/aspect for you
makes it really fun
dense locust
Plus were just working with the name SGG decided to call the duo
naive laurel
We can, however, get a re-design on that tho, imo
earnest ravine
Athena cast wins out JUST barely for that because of speed, I think, Rhino, but otherwise yeah.
Casting to no sell splitters is just funny
naive laurel
oh i think he means a representation...
visual one
anyways, curse of longing should also be looked at
earnest ravine
Ah. Misunderstood, sorry.
naive laurel
a 33% eventual dmg boost to dooms is bad
neon fiber
Imo a phalanx-like thing with Ares‘ dash would be great
Instead of creating a rift where you start create a phalanx of spears where you land
naive laurel
yes, if it keeps hitting, it's 33% extra dmg
neon fiber
Maybe have the impact inflict doom in impact
naive laurel
Why not just make it keep hitting
soft pine
what if athena's cast created like several Zagreus clones in phalanx formation around him that thrust spears forward and deflected all attacks for a couple secs
naive laurel
oh, that'd be good too i think
i mean the inflict doom
that feels like the call isn't it
flat brook
imagine if curse of longing combined both doom and blades, would be cumbersome to get, but it'd be pretty cool if it spawned a blade everytime doom hits a weak enemy
naive laurel
ouch
dense locust
I've got my fingers crossed for Duo calls
neon fiber
That would be a cool one but phalanx didn’t generally involve shields
Ooh, duo calls would be great
naive laurel
anyways, my idea of curse of longing is just constant hitting doom w/o reapplication
yes, that might feel busted
but def not as busted as some of other duo boons
dense locust
yeah, but also you hit them and then just spend the time running away
naive laurel
3 s weak, requires that certain boon for the, u know, buff :p
dense locust
i think if it reduced the time that doom was applied would be cool
naive laurel
13s weak might work for that sceneario
dense locust
er i mean activated
naive laurel
making doom scales better w/ faster atks? I'm down
dense locust
exactly
naive laurel
fixed -delay, or %
latent junco
hey guys, i have a good question
dense locust
what would the difference matter
neon fiber
A lot of duos feel pretty underwhelming ngl
dense locust
i mean, what would a flat delay reduction vs a % delay reduction matter, if that's what you were asking
latent junco
i am using the hera bow aspect, and i got attack bouncing 3 times, if i were to load a zeus cast into it, would it bounce the zeus cast from EACH individually hit enemy from each bounce?
naive laurel
on the 1.6s delay situation
neon fiber
Imo athena/zeus should make reflected projectiles spawn the bouncy zeus stuff instead
flat brook
what if it were something like doom on weak enemies doesn't pop automatically, it requires you to attack again to pop it. While it doesn't pop, it builds up damage
neon fiber
Rather than just
Phalanx shot bounces now
latent junco
does anyone know?
flat brook
so it works both with fast weapons that pop it constantly and slow weapons, with increased doom damage
naive laurel
wait
flat brook
i am using the hera bow aspect, and i got attack bouncing 3 times, if i were to load a zeus cast into it, would it bounce the zeus cast from EACH individually hit enemy from each bounce?
only the first enemy hit
dense locust
I think in balancing the boons, SGG can either make weak boons stronger, make strong boons weaker, or replace boons
naive laurel
isn't that dire misfortune
latent junco
ah ok
flat brook
so you could like attack once, walk for 10s and pop a huge doom
or just machine gun and pop doom every 2nd attack
dense locust
then its worse than I thought
soft pine
I never take dire misfortune, seems like a huge DPS loss
dense locust
impending doom gives a %damage to doom but extends time for doom to activate
flat brook
dire misfortune is the extra damage per attack while doom lingers iirc
dense locust
Oh quick question, impending doom and merciful end
naive laurel
works perfectly
soft pine
seems like waiting for the doom to pop then dooming again would be better DPS
dense locust
does it?
naive laurel
very busted
dense locust
impending doom says the damage comes after a certain time period
neon fiber
If you got athena dash and ares attack it becomes nuts
dense locust
merciful end makes doom activate prematurely
neon fiber
Since you’ll be constantly popping up enhanced dooms
naive laurel
impending increases timer
latent junco
hey guys
naive laurel
while merciful end sets it to 0
latent junco
when you get the demeter chill on cast boon, you can spam aoe chill
dense locust
so are you positive impending doom damage is added if merciful end makes doom pop before its indicated time period?
naive laurel
yep
earnest ravine
Yup!
naive laurel
been there
naive laurel
also, lightning rod
neon fiber
big doom numbers for days
soft pine
not the best combo but it works pretty good on regular mobs
neon fiber
Lightning Rod is really underwhelming lol
naive laurel
Imo, it should proc a huge lightning strike on cast stone appearing
earnest ravine
If you already have merciful end and are making full use of it, no reason not to grab Impending.
flat brook
just rework it entirely, having it not work with stygian soul is kinda sad
soft pine
I tell you who hates lightning rod
neon fiber
A lot of duos feel like supergiant being experimental with stuff in all fairness
soft pine
Theseus
dense locust
right, but the wording of impending doom makes it unclear whether it will add to the doom if you have merciful end
soft pine
I used to run lightning rod quite a bit until Stygian Soul, don't miss it really.
neon fiber
It do
naive laurel
impending is a direct modifier onto 2 doom stats
so, procing it early does nothing to stats except adding an extra to it
dense locust
but if the mechanic is that merciful end basically takes the timer immediately to 0
naive laurel
yes, i rememeber the game file :p
dense locust
then it makes sense
naive laurel
anyways, either lightning rod should have a very short interval like 0.5s
or, it should do something like 300+ dmg on re-appearing either from dropping
flat brook
demeter-dionysus-ares triple boon: war ice wine: your ice wine applies doom to enemies
naive laurel
or reappearing after demeter/dio/ares cast
weak rivet
trio oon
latent junco
what are good casts with the Hera Bow?
earnest ravine
it all leads back to wine
soft pine
@latent junco um, ice wine
dense locust
@neon fiber oh don't get me wrong, SGG is amazing and the game as is is nearly perfect, but after playing long enough, you can recognize what needs balancing, and were all just throwing out ideas for how we think that could be done. I think you're right that they were trying out ideas that they might have known weren't balanced just for the sake of trying things out
earnest ravine
Any casts but Demeter, Game.
latent junco
what's that?
flat brook
dio + demeter duo
soft pine
really any trippy shot build works like MUAH! with hera bow
dense locust
triple boons would be a lot of fun
earnest ravine
Ares cast is also REALLY fun with it.
dense locust
also I hope they add in non serious fun modes, like when there was a dash/cast bug
latent junco
yeah i have ares right now lol
i am testing it
its really funny seeing it just be there on top of the boss
earnest ravine
But Hera can make anything work aside from Demeter, and that's because her's doesn't do direct damage and aims in the direction you fired it.
naive laurel
On the side, I think spent spirit needs a rework too
flat brook
also I hope they add in non serious fun modes, like when there was a dash/cast bug
someone suggested "daily escapes" or something like that, and i think it'd be really fun, like having one day all boons be from a god, things like that
dense locust
I think if they tagged on "and they do 30% less damage" i'd take it
latent junco
oh like slay the spire?
flat brook
yup
earnest ravine
Or Crypt of the Necrodancer.
latent junco
daily escape leaderboards
soft pine
if they rework spent spirit athena might have one good duo
flat brook
daily climbs are quite popular on StS, daily escapes would be nice here
soft pine
and SGG clearly hates athena
earnest ravine
if it gave like, an extra bounty reward or something, that could be nice, too.
naive laurel
deadly reversal is busted what u talking about lul
flat brook
i mean, just give an ambrosia for each daily clear and you're set
dense locust
-30% speed and -30% damage from ranged
earnest ravine
Athena's one of the most powerful gods, tbh. She's had to be nerfed like EVERY patch and is still busted.
naive laurel
seriously tho, deadly reversal is +40% basically
dense locust
lol
naive laurel
40% dmg*
dense locust
athena is literally the best god
flat brook
athena is tied with artemis for best god imo
naive laurel
artemis best god
flat brook
athena for defense and artemis for offense
naive laurel
this is personal
flat brook
definitely, they just feel the "cheaper" gods that improve the run by a lot
naive laurel
No, winning runs w/o artemis is heresy
dense locust
Ill only take it to sell, or pray for pressure points or hunters mark
but athena dash and call
Wrong, winning runs without Ice Wine is heresy @naive laurel
flat brook
i feel like artemis is flawed by design: if all she brings to the table is damage, she HAS to be OP or no one would pick her
all the other gods bring something other than damage, except artemis
latent junco
hey guys
dense locust
I think of athena more along the lines of hermes
latent junco
i have become pretty damn good with the power shot on the bow
i usually can dash power shot perfectly 5-10 times in a row
naive laurel
U are comed @neon fiber
soft pine
artemis's only weakness is she doesn't help with privileged status
neon fiber
@naive laurel at least buy me dinner first man
earnest ravine
And she can even still with Marked.
naive laurel
oR wHaT @neon fiber
dense locust
I don't often need athena for my damage, but the dash, call, and free death defiances are game winning
earnest ravine
Artemis wouldn't be HURT by higher base damage but she doesn't really need it considering how scary crits are.
flat brook
I feel like crits should be reduced to 200% and artemis base damage should be higher
naive laurel
crit % is mutiplicative dmg
flat brook
crit stacking seems just too good compared to everything else
naive laurel
which is busted
earnest ravine
Shoutouts to her giving access to the literal one source of multiplicative damage in the game
dense locust
The crits should also be specified instead of the ambiguous wording it has now lol
earnest ravine
That plus, uhh... Her duo with Aphrodite? Terrifying.
dense locust
Heart rend
earnest ravine
Thanks, names hard at 7am
naive laurel
450% crit dmg, at your service
dense locust
Now i've heard heart rend is still additive
naive laurel
file says 450%, but wording on boons are, ugh
dense locust
but that it happens to add up to the same number that it would be if it was multiplicative
naive laurel
let's not curse in this channel for that, but i want to, lul
dense locust
according to some code diggers
earnest ravine
oh okay i was wondering "did i curse in here on accident"
naive laurel
yeah ik, i'm replying to myself basically 
earnest ravine
But with that, Marked, Exposed if you get Athena, it's just... it's SO much damage you barely notice her base increase is like, 20%.
naive laurel
it's necessary
flat brook
nemesis sword with aphro attack and artemis crit boosters
naive laurel
and it's also, because of 2-prone dmg amp she provides, she w/ chaoes 
dense locust
@naive laurel if you got software ready to easily check the game files, can you check if heart rend is actually multi or addi?
naive laurel
oh I'm using some online decompiler, but I'll check
flat brook
has anyone already digged up how boon rarities work? as well as the default %s
naive laurel
That's too much for me :p I'm a beginner
dense locust
Last time i had this conversation with some code checkers, they were saying that the tool tip was wrong, and it was additive, and just a coincidence that the multiplicative value was the same as the additive value, but the code was showing it added 150% damage to crits
soft pine
@flat brook the more you NEED a specific boon, the more likely it is to be white
earnest ravine
^
latent junco
isn't there some universal law about stuff like that?
earnest ravine
RNG is a cruel creature
dense locust
to be honest, i don't want to know the very deep specifics of the rng to the point I know how the rarities work, but thats just me
flat brook
in my last run yesterday the first 3 gods all offered white boons
latent junco
where when you want one thing, you will never get it, but when you DO NOT WANT IT AT ALL, you get it all the damn time
flat brook
to be honest, i don't want to know the very deep specifics of the rng to the point I know how the rarities work, but thats just me
i just want to know how the mirror affects, as well as chaos rarity % boon
to know how worth they are
dense locust
I see an easy solution to this
Just put all your mental effort in wanting the worst possible boons
latent junco
been there, tried that
soft pine
I run Olympian Legacy (coz duos) and God's Pride, and when I switch God's Pride to God's Chosen I can really notice a drop in the number of epic boons I get.
latent junco
reverse psychology does not affect this mental breakdown of a game
dense locust
@naive laurel What traits are you talking about
@latent junco you need to use triple reverse psychology
latent junco
crap, why did i not think of that?
dense locust
oh lol
earnest ravine
It's hard for me to tell the difference due to them changing rates all over the board when Nighty-Night hit, and I can't tell if it's the mirror trait or me being used to the old higher rates.
flat brook
I run Olympian Legacy (coz duos) and God's Pride, and when I switch God's Pride to God's Chosen I can really notice a drop in the number of epic boons I get.
yeah, i want to know how good exactly olympian legacy is. If the duo chance is 1% and it increases to 16%, it's something; if it's 20% and it increases to 23%, it's a whole different story
naive laurel
However
earnest ravine
You'd think I would have adjusted after like a month, but nope.
dense locust
From my own experience, when I use olympian favor and god's pride, i'm able to get duos and legendaries easier
but I use rarity increases, try and get the boons I want from skull rooms, and use fated persuasions to reroll
but even if I don't get the duo or legendary, having my other boons have higher rarity usually pays for itself
earnest ravine
I like the mirror trait that increases gold laurel rooms, but often find that I HAVE to go for Exclusive Access to see anything worthwhile.
dense locust
@naive laurel what's it say
latent junco
guys, i think the Olympian gods are the enemy, it would not let me fish and said there were enemies nearby on a choice room
earnest ravine
Which like, works out REALLY well but adds an extra step of prepwork.
naive laurel
{
InheritFrom = { "SynergyTrait" },
RequiredFalseTrait = "HeartsickCritDamageTrait",
Icon = "Artemis_Aphrodite_01",
AddOnEffectWeapons =
{
EffectName = "ReduceDamageOutput",
Weapon = "HeartsickCritWeapon",
},
PropertyChanges =
{
{
WeaponName = "HeartsickCritWeapon",
EffectName = "HeartSickCritVulnerability",
EffectProperty = "CritMultiplierVulnerabilityAddition",
BaseValue = 1.5,
ExtractValue =
{
ExtractAs = "TooltipVulnerability",
Format = "PercentDelta",
}
},
},
},```1.5, clear enough
naive laurel
multiplied, but the multiplier is additive
dense locust
lol this isn't the code the last time people were showing me this
naive laurel
meaning w/ clean kill it's additive
dense locust
maybe they ended up changing it
flat brook
i'm confused 
is it multiplicative or additive?
latent junco
guys, i think the Olympian gods are the enemy, it would not let me fish and said there were enemies nearby on a choice room
earnest ravine
So it's base multiplicative, but any further Crit damage ups are additive?
naive laurel
it's a multiplier tier
2 things contribute to it
i think
so when u have both, the multipliers adds together then get multiplied
dense locust
idk there are variables it's referencing that aren't specified there
naive laurel
it basically means "enemies take 50% more crit dmg when weakened
so, it's a +50% in the end end
flat brook
so it's basically multiplicative
soft pine
when I joined this server it was with the strict understanding that there would be no math. 8 |
earnest ravine
Math comes for us all, Rhino
naive laurel
brain not working rn
earnest ravine
Theorycrafting demands it
neon fiber
There must be maths
The gods demand it
dense locust
Wait where does it say no math
naive laurel
lemme see how much this shiza would do if both clean kill and heart rend is there
i bet it's gonna wreck'
earnest ravine
It does a lot.
dense locust
Well from experience, it does
earnest ravine
Those two boons together melt pretty much everything, including the tiny vermin.
flat brook
know what else melts tiny vermin? ice wine.
flat brook
wait, clean kill is also multiplicative?
naive laurel
or it's shiet, lul
dense locust
Im not sure the code you posted really tells us what it does
soft pine
I got lucky with poseidon boons the other day and made tiny vermin ricochet in the corner for like 10 seconds
neon fiber
You know what especially melts smol vermin? Poseidon dash, but then again that melts everythinf
naive laurel
yes last time I check the code and updated the wiki, i noticed it's multiplicative
dense locust
But I think their intention was a 50% multiplier to crits
neon fiber
Poseidon dash styx is fun
dense locust
and that last patch its was a 150% additive to crits
flat brook
i bet it's all gonna change in june lol
earnest ravine
I don;t think so, personally.
dense locust
yeah i'm sure they are constantly cleaning up and refining their code
naive laurel
the code basically says @dense locust , a enemy w/ weak, would have a debuff on them applied, when having this duo boon, which makes them takes 1.5x more dmg from crits
earnest ravine
This is how it's been for ages. This code just seems to guarantee that it does what they wanted to, instead of it happening to line up right.
dense locust
@naive laurel yeah it implies that, but doesn't show what it's actually doing right?
naive laurel
nah it doesn't
core code is too core for me to read I'm afraid
but the implication is enough imo
since their surface coding is pretty easy-accessed
dense locust
either way, their intention is pretty clear
naive laurel
and the good part is, it's a debuff
dense locust
And whether it's 50% multi or 150% additive doesn't matter all that much
naive laurel
yeah
dense locust
and if it wasn't already fixed, it likely will be
soft pine
Just got Bad News in an Ice Wine run. BAAHAHAHA
earnest ravine
It being multi means it interacts with other boons and damage sources properly- oh dear
naive laurel
but u know, having it on enemies almost guarantees it's multiplied
dense locust
you win @soft pine
flat brook
only need scintillating now @soft pine
earnest ravine
Sounds like some REAL bad news... for everything else
soft pine
got one chance for it and 3 reroll coupons
earnest ravine
I'd go but every time I try it yells at me that there's no escape and I have to come back
flat brook
zeus-centric trippy shot seems very viable, with jolted and the zeus legendary you don't even care if trippy shot is white, it constantly fires ~300 damage bolts that give jolted
soft pine
And Silvaria left the discord server and stepped on a rake.
dense locust
Have a glass of ice wine!
soft pine
IT BURNS WITH THE POWER OF AWESOME
flat brook
pool of styx should be ice wine instead of blood
dense locust
When I look right at your cold, dead, ice, I want to wine @earnest ravine
soft pine
pls add contractor upgrade to turn the pool of styx into ice wine kthx
naive laurel
+50% is not something to be laughed at when lvl 3-4 still gives +20-30 for trippy shot
earnest ravine
Like, Ice Wine is essentially turning your cast into a one-bar Demeter call.
naive laurel
u can see how flipping huge its base dmg is
latent junco
@soft pine you mean well of charon?
dense locust
The real fun happens when you have deadly reversal, heart rend, and ice wine
naive laurel
ouch
latent junco
i have dio cast and demeter attack whole run, no ice wine
naive laurel
are u trying to remind hades of phosphene cuz that def rends his heart
young gorge
oh i gotta try that in a run soon, sounds fun
dense locust
but getting 2.5k crits isn't all that hard with heart rend
dense locust
there isn't ice wine?
earnest ravine
Dash?
dense locust
that does end up being the problem
young gorge
dash weak is so clunky though
latent junco
why did i not see ice wine the whole run?
dense locust
which is why I value the boon that adds to the duration of weak
young gorge
it doesn't feel good to use
flat brook
the real bomb is ice wine + dual shot
young gorge
the area is so tiny
flat brook
why have one ice wine when you can have TWO?
dense locust
or 3?
young gorge
spam that ice wine
soft pine
I love dropping a demeter call in the middle of some ice wine.
naive laurel
Oh that won me the poseidon game
earnest ravine
Whenever I cast with Festive Fog I'm usually doing it point blank so it all happens within liike... .3 or .4 seconds of each other.
naive laurel
let's say hades chilled out
earnest ravine
So it happens pretty easily.
dense locust
But when i'm going artemis/aphro crit builds, applying that weak can be a problem
for the heart rend
often the best spot for it is cast
soft pine
aphro cast is ehhh
naive laurel
This is where a good ol' high base dmg weapon comes in and once again asking for your aphro base dmg boost
dense locust
but without the additional duration, it's dangerous applying it
earnest ravine
Weak on Specials usually seems to be an easier application?
soft pine
I've heard it can be strong with snow burst
dense locust
depends on weapon/aspect
earnest ravine
It can be but the projectile is SO particular now, it almost never feels worth it.
naive laurel
imagine -50%ish dmg applied in 1 button hit
earnest ravine
And you can't if you'te going for Ice Wine anyways
soft pine
but but but
dense locust
some weapons do well with the standard artemis/aphro on special and attack or vise versa
soft pine
if you got arty's legendary and a hermes cast boon, CRUSHCRUSHCRUSHCRUSHCRUSHCRUSH
earnest ravine
saying crush so many times people think you're paramore
latent junco
FINALLY, ICE WINE
dense locust
lol
naive laurel
Oh my
earnest ravine
yes it's 2020 yes i'll make that reference no i'm not acceptinfg criticism
dense locust
nice reference from 15 years ago
earnest ravine
ALSO GRATS
naive laurel
ty for reminding me of that
latent junco
so why is it good?
earnest ravine
Cast it on a group of enemies or a boss
naive laurel
now it's time for rose colord bois
soft pine
thinking of toying with hestia rail, what's a good build for that?
dense locust
please don't try and reference anything else from paramore that wasn't a hit single
naive laurel
sea storm on weapon
earnest ravine
Artemis as usual on attack.
soft pine
but...ice wine....
restive widget
I just had a run with Festive Fog + Ice Wine with the Cluster Bomb on rail - soooo good
just carpet bomb everything and proc the double debuff thing
naive laurel
ice win and sea storm does not contradict
restive widget
*privileged status
and then the Demeter special on the bombs
super powerful and easy to kite everything
earnest ravine
You could also do Demeter on attack but because Hestia is so single-shot focused, it doesn't benefit as much from rapid hitting things compared to the other rail Attacks, so it's better on special.
latent junco
i only completed 2 tunnels and got the sack, is that the minimum?
earnest ravine
Huh, really? Why so?
naive laurel
makes it extremely flexible
% m makes single shot dmg
chill makes plain shooting also not bad, and functional as cc
other gods will prob lock hestia atk into only 1 of the 2 modes
soft pine
I like Artemis but she doesn't duo with any of the gods I normally run with.
earnest ravine
I'll defer to your judgement, then. Rail's one of my lesser used weapons, if I'm honest.
Oh, also, Athena special on ANY rail? Is hilarious
naive laurel
try it later
earnest ravine
the entire explosion just reflects everything
dense locust
eris rail is fantastic
naive laurel
Oh yeah
but eris is eris
eris is way more flexible than hestia imo
and hestia, for me, falls off late game
dense locust
because you can go with anything
earnest ravine
Hestia's your bursty damage builder, Eris is solid all around.
naive laurel
have had busted early game from hestia, got f'd late game cuz no sustain dmg
dense locust
i prefer eris because hestia kind of pigeon holes you into attack
flat brook
after getting used to zag, i can't play any other aspect
naive laurel
keep them reloadinto shooting boss for just 400-500 dmg isn't enough
flat brook
reloading is annoying
naive laurel
it's fine, it's on my mouse side button
actually
my special is mb4, reload is mb5
yes, all atk moves are on my mouse
earnest ravine
??
soft pine
tut, tut
naive laurel
no idea why
earnest ravine
No, I didn't curse, that's. weird.
naive laurel
iukik
back to key mapping lul
I have the habit of lefthand dominating movement, right dominating offense
earnest ravine
Uhh. I don't know what word set the bot off? But alternating special and attack on Hestia seems to be a good idea as you go into later game, and rocket bomb on it works wonders.
...that cleared? okay thank god
naive laurel
yeah, and it's actually a lot of keys to press
my mouse prob took some light dmg cuz of my mashing, lul
earnest ravine
Oh, you do KB+M
naive laurel
yep
earnest ravine
yeah, I do controller, so the reload thing isn't as annoying to work in.
soft pine
I tried controller, but I just can't.
naive laurel
I've, both unfortunately and fortunately, never used a controller before
earnest ravine
Supergiant games are the only (non fighting games) ones I play on controller nowadays and even then I do Transistor on keyboard.
naive laurel
closest is prob nintendo 3ds and its predessors
flat brook
i use a dark souls layout on the controller and it feels really nice
attack on rb, special on lb
soft pine
How does Stygian Soul affect Hera Bow and Poseidon Sword?
flat brook
it doesn't
naive laurel
they lose half of their appeal
it does
just weaker than normal casts, but, since stygian is busted....
flat brook
it doesn't affect, they do the same thing
which with stygian soul is kind of detrimental
naive laurel
nah, stygian imo eats chaos boons
well, at least a "nah" on poseidon
hera, it's a touch choice
dense locust
The only aspect where i've considered not using stygian soul is hera
soft pine
does it add the bloodstone drop time to your bloodstone cooldown?
dense locust
it only lets you load the number of bloodstones you have
flat brook
hera feels bad with stygian since the cooldown only starts as you fire
so long term you use less casts than without hera
soft pine
ahh
dense locust
but then again it does make 1 blood stone minimum extremely reliable
earnest ravine
It on Hera removes the "I shot my cast out of the arena" problem, but comes with a lot of downsides.
If you shoot for Artemis legendary in particular though it gets silly fun.
naive laurel
@soft pine https://www.twitch.tv/soledad630/clip/WittyGracefulJamPRChase
The scaling is nasty, 2bh
dense locust
but if you get another from chaos, or a 3rd, or 4th using charons keepsake
dense locust
is that 5 stygian blood stones?
naive laurel
yep
dense locust
gross
flat brook
sad that artemis legendary doesn't work with trippy shot
earnest ravine
i LOVE IT
flat brook
imagine how many ice wines we could get
soft pine
XD he has so many bloodstones in him
earnest ravine
And yeah, Constantino, it's not exactly great.
I already wrote a pretty long feedback post about it though, so you're in good company there.
naive laurel
Seriously tho, artemis cast is something against bosses
naive laurel
also, @earnest ravine me too, prob late to the aspect complaining team, lul
dense locust
There's this funny joke I heard the other day
soft pine
And Hades got pulled over on his way back to the Underworld.
Cop: Been freebasing bloodstones, have we now?
dense locust
Can't remember the set up but the punch line was using any cast other than ice wine
soft pine
@neon fiber Yeah I was sitting there the whole time like, PRESS F DUDE
naive laurel
it seems that hades hates poseidon the most 2bh
neon fiber
imagine not commiting fratricide with your sick surf moves
naive laurel
then zeus, and everyone else is him being himself rather than hating
dense locust
don't we all though @naive laurel
neon fiber
no i love poseidon tbh
dense locust
no im kidding, poseidon call is no joke
naive laurel
just by your word, Imma do sea storm on zag aspect rail on 32 when I reach it
It might actually do workout
dense locust
pretty sure I have a screen shot of that
flat brook
how would you guys rank the calls? obv athena and poseidon are s tier
naive laurel
calls?
soft pine
I want a button on the pact screen to reset to 0. :grump:
earnest ravine
Demeter is pretty A tier.
naive laurel
all s tier
dense locust
but zeus is on attack, not poseidon
earnest ravine
Actually Soledad's got the better answer
naive laurel
well, demeter being a tier prob
soft pine
Demeter call is sick, but I try not to let it get to max.
naive laurel
billowing strength is busted af
just by that, demeter call is worth having than nothing
earnest ravine
No, I meant that as a compliment to her. I really dislike Aphrodite's call, and Artemis is VERY hit or miss depending on crit chance.
But Demeter's is FANTASTIC for how I play.
dense locust
lol this is pretty old and 0 heat: https://imgur.com/SAcqP1s
earnest ravine
Not the best alongside Athena, and if Posi's call would stop glitching on me I'd like his more, but still REALLY good.
earnest ravine
The movement lockout makes me almost never take it.
earnest ravine
because it's inconsistent. If it happened every time, I could plan it. But it's not.
dense locust
in whichever direction you were moving
earnest ravine
It's neat on a full blade rift build, though.
dense locust
yeah true
but at that point
the run is probably won
so its more for the fun of just watching everything melt
flat brook
at that point you just use it to buy time while hunting blades mow everything though
so any impervious call would workj
earnest ravine
Like if you're already going in, it's about as good as Poseidon's.
dense locust
if they fix the poseidon call so you can always steer it
flat brook
poseidon call is fine on controller
dense locust
its gonna be a contender with athena for me on some runs
flat brook
dont know how it is in kbm
naive laurel
ares imo is something best working for channelled fullscreen dmg from bosses
earnest ravine
Yeah, and I hope it is, Strong, because like... the lock doesn't feel natural and it doesn't feel intended.
flat brook
i just move repeatedly left-right and it works
earnest ravine
And I REALLY want to like it because when it works, it's a gem.
dense locust
There's a bug that prevents any movement
earnest ravine
but it's legit killed me on hydra before multiple times and i'm not willing to take that chance
weak rivet
Is poseidon's call supposed to be almost uncontrollable
weak rivet
I just, dont like taking it because whenever i use it i just get yeeted all over
flat brook
i'd rank
S tier: athena, poseidon
A tier: artemis, zeus, aphro
B tier: demeter, ares
C tier: dion
naive laurel
So, realistically, if I'm to rank it
S+: Athena
S: Artemis, Poseidon, Ares, Dio, Demeter
A: Zeus, Aphro
dense locust
So poseidon's call isn't terribly hard to control, but there is a bug where if your're running in any direction while you press call, you are forced to shoot off in that direction and can't steer the call at all
flat brook
i put aphro and artemis at A because they're instant, so it helps kill stuff faster
earnest ravine
S Tier: Athena, Poseidon (when he works)
A Tier: Zeus, Demeter, Dio
B Tier: Ares, Artemis
C: Aphro
D: Poseidon (with bug)
naive laurel
I've discussed about dio call, it's way better than zeus imo
weak rivet
zagreus ball go nyoom
naive laurel
cuz the hangover dmg it inflicts charges the gauge
earnest ravine
i love Dio call SO much
flat brook
dio call always feels underwhelming when i take it
weak rivet
It always feels strong when i have it
naive laurel
any dmg while call is going does not charge it, but after it does
flat brook
dio's call should just spawn ice wines over the arena
naive laurel
so dio charges itself
dense locust
I feel the same way @flat brook
weak rivet
Also i like the thought of Zagreus Calling and everyone around him just gets alcohol poisoning
flat brook
so dio charges itself
it charges more dio, doesn't seem that good even then lol
dense locust
Calls are a defensive option for me
naive laurel
lul
dense locust
so damage calls are usually lower priority
flat brook
all instant calls are great for call builds, so aphro, artemis are at the top for those
weak rivet
Artemis call go BRRRRRR
flat brook
if you get a double pom from styx's charon on artemis, artemis' greater call deals lots of damage also
so she's great for call builds and damage imo
naive laurel
I use artemis call as "hey this phase I don't like, Imma skip it" button
weak rivet
Dbjsuft
earnest ravine
Yeah, I love when that works, but sometimes you just... don't get ANY crits and cry,
naive laurel
artemis call is literlly huge burst boss dmg for me
earnest ravine
Only reason her's is B for me.
flat brook
i mean, artemis is pure damage, her call is no different lol
naive laurel
And for that job, she does it really well 2bh
ugh, and she's good at single target dmg in matter of call
which is not optimal in chambers
dio is like, "oh i got 1 charge, these mofo's blue hearts and armor can go bye bye"
flat brook
the thing is, if i call, i want instant damage
naive laurel
that's value
flat brook
dio's damage is way too delayed for me
earnest ravine
Yeah, Zeus and Dio both benefit hugely from spamming them.
naive laurel
supplementary, not bad idea
flat brook
i mean, again that's the debate TD vs not lol
weak rivet
zeus and dionysus require you to risk cause you gotta yeet into enemies
flat brook
if time's not a problem for you dio is fine
earnest ravine
what, are you not auto-yeeting you into enemies?
flat brook
what, are you not auto-yeeting you into enemies?
yeah, if zeus had a bit more range he'd be S tier for me imo
earnest ravine
Also, Costantino, most of Dio's is instant because it dumps the full stack ammouunt on the entire group at once.
naive laurel
I actually sometimes get dio just for the TD
weak rivet
I LIKE MY BODY IN ONE PIECE SILV
naive laurel
cuz I need all the dmg I can get
earnest ravine
It melts through pretty much ALL of Hydra's head phase and makes it trivial.
flat brook
if you're using bow if feels awful to have to suicide bomb just to call
weak rivet
I'm an Exagryph main
weak rivet
I haate triple shot
naive laurel
dash triple shot is good dmg
weak rivet
It fricks me up and i dont even know why
flat brook
triple + chain shot gang
naive laurel
cuz dash strike only scales from 20 initially to 30 final
normal atk is 20 initial to 50 final
10 is powershot bonus
so, just dash strike instant release w/ triple
it's huge dmg
if shotgunning
weak rivet
Not a fan of dashstriking on bow
naive laurel
2bh, me neither
flat brook
wow, really?
i can only dash strike on bow
probably why artemis dash is one of my most picked boons
naive laurel
same 2bh
flat brook
gotta frequently reposition
naive laurel
but bow overall makes me feel ugh
flat brook
maybe that's again the TD stuff
earnest ravine
If I don't dash strike, or snap aim, bow feels too slow for me.
naive laurel
most clunky weapon for me
earnest ravine
It feels amazing when i hit the rythym, though.
naive laurel
I hate weapons that self-locks u and prevents u from dashing at any time
especially during atk animation where, iirc, u can't dash
naive laurel
oh ik
but the thing is, I'm very reactionary
so, fist is the thing for me and iirc my 2nd full bounty in hell
hey i need to dash? atk animation is so short I can dash anytime
I zone out when atking for the fast reaction dash
bow and spear kinda ruins that
earnest ravine
I zone out when doing bow dash attacks, too, but that's after I've gotten back into the swing of it.
So Iunno? Could just be a practise thing, maybe.
naive laurel
maybe
flat brook
RIP run https://i.imgur.com/4khDA2F.jpg
naive laurel
but having to prematurely forfeit an atk animation just to be able to dash feels weird
earnest ravine
It never felt like it locked me into place to do the attack but also, I don't normally go for power shots on it and if I need to run I abandon the attack and book it.
So most of my shots are about as rapid as any other weapon's.
also OH NO
flat brook
it sure is
earnest ravine
40 Heat, looks like they have a rough time ahead.
flat brook
i just restarted with 38 heat lol let's see how it goes
earnest ravine
valid
soft pine
Mmm, got Demeter, Dio, AND Zeus in tartarus, and the party barge hath delivered the Ice Wine unto me! MUAH!
earnest ravine
:D
flat brook
nothing like serving ice wine at the party barge
soft pine
doing Malphon with the Scorpion Aspect. GET OVER HERE!
soft pine
epic demeter attack boon, this is going to be a good run
plus I got a hermes in tartarus that gave me epic +special speed so my Shoryuken is FAST
earnest ravine
Nyoom
soft pine
this is what they call being ON TRACK
flat brook
is sure footing really good or really bad?
earnest ravine
On Epic it's incredible.
And if you have uhhh... the trap damage up going (which from that heat gauge i assume you do) it's a literal godsend.
naive laurel
sure footing, i used to hate it
naive laurel
but rn, for me, it's basically, something like a dd refill
cuz eventually it's gonna save u health during a run
and it's better than the dd refill in the matter that, u can sell it whenever u want
after having saved health from that
best place to sell it imo, is in styx when u encounter purge pool out of nowhere
earnest ravine
stares at the ominious glowy green pots against Hades
I think I'd keep it at that point personally
naive laurel
hades green vases can be avoided, and if u need the obols, it's worth
again, it's just having more choice being better
u know
earnest ravine
Yeah, but I know that sometimes, I'm kinda dumb, and would rather not eat 150 damage.
naive laurel
oof 150 dmg blades?
earnest ravine
Or pots
naive laurel
ugh fair
earnest ravine
Blades I haven't gotten hit by since like... run 32
earnest ravine
For me it's a "it's fine until it isn't" Heat, and if Athena has my back it's ALWAYS fine.
naive laurel
try double dmg 100 labor elite vermin
flat brook
when you start dio, get a demeter room and buy zeus at the end of tartarus charon shop
naive laurel
that's 150 dmg per hit
flat brook
you know what's coming
naive laurel
flipping unbelieveable
earnest ravine
Yeah.
earnest ravine
You said double damage and 100 labor at the same time so I got confused
earnest ravine
but this continues to prove that my guiding philosophy of "don't get hit" continues to be my best bet
hypnos would be proud of me
naive laurel
Oh, I didn't intend to get hit that run either
flat brook
just pretend every room is erebus
naive laurel
but the vermin finds me
earnest ravine
I've been lucky enough not to get THAT particular mess of a combo.
naive laurel
he also slows
earnest ravine
I do! I take butterfly everywhere so iit might as well be.
earnest ravine
oh nooooooo
naive laurel
x shaped final chamber and the middle double blades final chamber are my nightmares
ofc, there's also that chamber where tiny vermin appears
that's literal nightmare
flat brook
let's goooo https://i.imgur.com/UJgKd7i.jpg
naive laurel
tiny vermin seems like dev's response of "hey, u think styx elite final chamber is easlier than normal? ok, have this"
earnest ravine
I've actually only ever lost a DD to it once so far.
naive laurel
I usually lose 1 to it
earnest ravine
And that was because its resurfacing animation got covered up by a poison cloud.
kinda made me mad because it was literally impossible to see
naive laurel
recently it got better for me cuz I learnt the pattern, finally
kind fiber
It seems like an easy encounter by that point in time for me, but its difficult not to take any damage to it
naive laurel
I havn't encountered it enough
then I encountered it, then it just got f'd
oh, btw
earnest ravine
Is Exploding Time, enjoy yourself, Constantino
And I think you did when it happened.
naive laurel
Ok, I sent it
that run, bad influence actually did good job
yes, bad influence
the boon a lot of people hates
it killed hydra and half of elysium for me
well, fing, worth
naive laurel
I think a lot do
soft pine
bad influence is tits
soft pine
to my mind the connotation is always positive
flat brook
is it the 3 hangover damage buff?
earnest ravine
Okay cool
soft pine
yeah
flat brook
it's not that i hate it, it's just that it's useless in boss fights
soft pine
can help you kill hades adds pretty quick
naive laurel
even hades 2nd phase, u can make use of it
soft pine
unless the bastard summons back to back soulcatchers
earnest ravine
And the Skulls he casts count for the proc.
flat brook
i mean, sure, it activates for 5 seconds at the hades phase
naive laurel
nah
I have it activated for like, at least 10, with a bad application method
melted him between his 2 add summon intervals
earnest ravine
It's pretty funny. He summons these adds that are meant to intimidating and you can go "Oh! Free damage up time!"
And burn second phase down way faster.
kind fiber
@half tapir I'd say that most of Hermes boons are inferior to the Primary boon slots of other gods, but superior to the secondary boons that other gods grant. His boons end up being way more helpful than the secondary boons of almost any other gods.
My favorite Hermes boons end up being the faster attack/special/cast, (depending on which build I'm going for) additional dashes, (it really helps make it so that you are never vulnerable, even without another dash boon) passive dodge, and health recovery on dashes
soft pine
I got the epic dash-run hermies boon once. Once.
kind fiber
Which one is second wind?
naive laurel
call 15s buiff
kind fiber
Dodge after using a call?
naive laurel
yep
earnest ravine
And movement speed!
naive laurel
it's better than passive dodge usually
earnest ravine
You turn very speedy.
kind fiber
I haven't really made good use of it
naive laurel
try athena/dio call w/ it
kind fiber
Why Athena call? She already grants invulnerability during the duration of her call?
earnest ravine
For the not ggreater call, the dodge chance outlasts it.
So if you drop in a bad spot you aren';t immediately smacked.
kind fiber
Sure, I get that much, but its not a synergy, its an anti synergy
naive laurel
ugh, i don't think so
her call is usually best saved for greater, imo, but w/ this, flexibility is granted
kind fiber
I mean, isn't it objectively an anti synergy?
earnest ravine
So you get 1 second or so of invul, and then 14 seconds of higher dodge chance to increase surviability after. Which is really nice if you mistime or another wave of projectiles come at you.
It isanti synergy with greater call, or at least wastes the dodge chance, but the movement speed is still helpful.
kind fiber
I guess it mostly doesn't matter
naive laurel
"oh i need to use a charge for a spin" "hey that's a cast dodged"
it's just, w/ 2nd wind, u need to remember NOT to use greater call that often
and I usually don't use that as often anymore anyways
kind fiber
Most fights don't last long enough for greater calls anways
naive laurel
patty is busted
but usually, and recently, he does not show up unless i don't need him at all, lul
well, not for that zag aspect run, ofc
flat brook
i had 1 dd left only
naive laurel
oh, that's what me and strongd!ng call "Patroclus or bust" runs
earnest ravine
I like seeing him even when I'm fully stocked to the teeth, bcause then i can melt thesus faster than thought possible.
naive laurel
normal
earnest ravine
as the prophecy foretold
naive laurel
everything in elysium is a whole new lvl harder
powerspike is very needed in there
which is why i use golden touch now
flat brook
double damage flame wheels at that
the little bastard drifted to hit me from behind the shield
soft pine
when you talos special a flamewheel... smh
flat brook
LOL that's a nice combo i hadn't thought of
soft pine
worth it, got scintillating ice wine
and athena coming up
and note to self: UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take a +enemies chaos boon in Elysium. SHEESH
soft pine
haha, talos flamewheel is not fun. XD
naive laurel
flamewheels...
earnest ravine
I'm still mad that a synonym for their name is Hot Wheel
We're getting murdered by hot wheels
earnest ravine
Oh yeah, that's REALLY fun.
naive laurel
yoyo build lulul
earnest ravine
Getting the legendary is great for it, too.
naive laurel
ok that';s the official name
Poseidon special talos w/ sea storm and zeus atk, how about that :p
earnest ravine
cronch
soft pine
I have two bloodstones now too. BOOSH
restive widget
Somehow, this game seems less finite the more I play
earnest ravine
It sounds more complex than it is so it doesn't SOUND that strong.
until you realize how easy hangover is to apply and how much it stacks
restive widget
so many combinations
flat brook
might be one of the most well done legendaries in the game
ties two unrelated "archetypes" nicely
wish ares' legendary was like that
not just "let's ignore doom"
mossy breach
I just had the perfect run, Got hera bow and artemis gave me the legendary, got +2 casts from chaos, and the extra secondary cast and damage on dislodge. Asterius and achiles died in 2 charged shots
naive laurel
hangover is stackable x8 dmg, imagine
the number boon gives u gives u an illusion of it being minimal
but, x8, then x the times u apply it, then get the dmg boost portion, then it might crit...
and suddenly u got a number purple but also 3 digits
flat brook
Didn't think 40 heat would be this easy https://i.imgur.com/062y8Pw.jpg
Either ice wine or chaos shield is op
or both + athena call
got hit only 2 times on the hades fight
shame chaos didn't give me more casts
flat brook
ty
naive laurel
both
and, 40 is 40, so that's well worth celebrating
that def looks suicidal in matter of having to do dmg asap tho
Good thing is u won't get a forced lvl in program
soft pine
patty?
flat brook
that def looks suicidal in matter of having to do dmg asap tho
just standard chaos shield gameplay, charge in, special, dash out
but with ice wine sometimes
patty = patroclus
neon fiber
i hereby request we call patroclus' items patto patties