rip
#h1-builds-and-combat
tired elk
naive laurel
I usually take sudden rush on chaoes aspect too
It makes doing the combo way faster
and makes u pretty mobile
torpid turret
Yeah sudden rush and explosive return is my go to
naive tusk
I always get Explosive Return but I still don't fully comprehend why it's so good in others' eyes 
naive laurel
It scales with bonus, iirc, but does not apply effect
And, it's basically free extra dmg
torpid turret
You don't always have to do a bull rush and throw out max shields
You can spam special in large groups to proc explosive return on multiple enemies rather quickly
turbid needle
Charged Shot/Sudden Rush is objectively better on Chaos.
naive laurel
merciful end combo w/ single shield is my way of soloing boss
single special shield, i mean
torpid turret
Why? Chaos shield would most likely focus on a special build
naive laurel
Charged shot imo removes the mobility, I'm not very certain about it
torpid turret
So why would you focus on 2 attack hammers
spare zealot
wow holy cow this is damn near an open source game with how much they just don't bother obfuscating. This is neat.
turbid needle
It removes a little bit of mobility.
naive laurel
I depend on it too since i use ruthless reflex
turbid needle
Most Chaos builds aren't going to be relying on Special damage, they use the bonus from Doom or Hangover.
Well, Dread Flight isn't terrible.
naive laurel
on that note
i think i got 200% special dmg bonus on the shield earlier
just from chaoes
tired elk
Damage on a special/cast/attack from different boons are multiplicative or additive?
naive tusk
Heeey we are talking about Doom and Hangover again!
naive laurel
Additive
static prawn
that's called a Sunday night
tired elk
so the 10% damage from ares is really pointless then?
tired elk
I see ok
naive laurel
pressure points is multiplicative, if u think it as 5% crit = 10% dmg increase
naive laurel
Yeah, but in the long run :p
tired elk
in theory it is
naive laurel
i only count it like that on bosses
tired elk
well not even in theory
naive tusk
Here comes the math 📖
naive laurel
Still, the average gain is better cuz it's multiplicative
tired elk
Yea I guess when you're trying to figure out mathematically which ones better
you can see 5% crit as a 10% damage increase
c:
Yea for AoE I can definitely see doom being better than special damage
naive tusk
With Pressure Points I'm like "54 Hangover damage tick, another 54 tick..... Ohey! A 162 tick! Sweet!"
naive laurel
lul
tired elk
The catch explosion doesn't seem so good with chaos
since you're already dealing like 80 damage per doom
torpid turret
Works best when throwing a single shield up close to an enemy, don't always have to charge up and throw multiple shields
odd quarry
Super late, but Peach, on why I (and other people) like Explosive Return so much: It means that, with solo enemies, instead of smacking them around, I can just q spam in their face (or relatively near them) for 65 damage very quickly, over and over again.
torpid turret
Especially in large groups of enemies
odd quarry
Yeah, more or less. Or two close enemies it works really well on as well, keeping them stunlocked as you murder them.
On an unrelated note, Chiron gang rise up
http://puu.sh/FwMBj/f283b437f3.jpg
torpid turret
You have to play situationally, you don't just do the same move over and over until the runs over
earnest ravine
And I like it as a lot of free damage since I reposition my shield so much, and it's USUALLY while recalling it when I'm blocking with enemies in my face.
torpid turret
And you need to be up close for it to actually do anything
earnest ravine
60 damage is 60 damage and it adds up with all of the flat damage bonuses I tend to get.
No matter what shield, it's good.
...wait they nerfed the damage, but still, it's essentially free.
odd quarry
I also like it 'cause even if you are playing the long-range game, I still sort of have a safety net when other enemies (bloodless / exalted / etc) decide they want to be in my face
torpid turret
Yeah it got nerfed, still probably the best shield upgrade
odd quarry
Plus if I'm running around and it takes awhile to come back, I can sorta see that and position myself so that I do 50 damage to an enemy on it's return, and maybe combo it into bopping them away, charging past them, and then tossing the shield again (hey, more reason to use Chaos) while I'm a distance away
tired elk
I regret taking Aphrodite for the chaos special shield ;__;
torpid turret
Why?
tired elk
Doom does more damage ;__;
I think?
in aoe
I'm killing things allot slower
and I have an extra shield this time
torpid turret
Well the beauty of this game is trying a lot of different builds, not just doing the same thing over and over. There's always next time
Get aphros legendary and I'm sure you'll feel a lot differently about that build
earnest ravine
There's also the tier 2 for Aphrodite that increases damage that Weak enemies take.
Which would tremendously increase your damage, with your current setup.
torpid turret
Yeah, with any build there are good things to have of course
Can't really compare the two builds until you've actually completed it
Plus you have the added bonus of getting to hear Hades giggle every time you charm him
olive badge
might be dumb of me to ask but the talos aspect is the same as poseidon aspect right
the cast damage increase I mean
you don't actually have to land the special to boost the cast right?
because it seems that way to me
if it's not intended it might be a bug
torpid turret
Yes he giggles when charmed, which makes sense
olive badge
clear dome
olive badge
Oh nevermind
It was me misunderstand sth
Only the one inflicted with the fist debuff will take bonus damage
naive tusk
I see. Thanks for explaining, now I see why 
Explosive Return's damage doesn't escalate with boons, right?
olive badge
As far as I know, no
Not even stuff like Family Favorite
Also am I the only one binding Special onto the right mouse and use Cast on Q instead
I-I just like aiming the spear throw...
earnest ravine
It does with Pierced Butterfly for sure. I don't know if any of the others do.
olive badge
Does it?
Then only the sword shockwave doesn't scale with anything
Why does sword hammer sucks so bad
earnest ravine
An honest mystery, really, I haven't heard anyone say that it was fine as it was.
olive badge
I feel like because sword is the first weapon so it was polished the least
One of the few weapons that armor break actually feels like top tier pick
Ngl having armor break on Arthur helps speed up mini boss a lot
That's only because other hammer choice sucks major bum
torpid turret
The special hammers are decent, so is double edge
olive badge
And unlike Guan Yu the DPS choice doesn't work with Arthur
The one that 3rd strike has more damage and crit chance
I don't think Arthur use dash attack that much so I don't like double edge tbh
It's great on Nemesis though
torpid turret
Double nova + Super nova is the way to go
earnest ravine
Seconding the super nova recommendation for arthur, but the armour shredding one is really nice.
olive badge
earnest ravine
oh my god that DOES sound good
torpid turret
Fastest theseus fight i've had was 8 seconds haha
olive badge
oh
torpid turret
You can get faster too
Haelian had a 7 seconds thesues fight in his latest PB
Just speedrun strats hahah
Hydra fight used to be as fast at 1.5 seconds until last patch
olive badge
yeah
the hydra skip
I just got this sick combo
just to be sure, Black Out only boost the hangover damage right?
naive tusk
If I remember correctly, Black Out boosts all damage to enemies in Festive Fog affected with Hangover
tired elk
Makes perfect sense!
Is a Titan Blood worth 2 diamonds
or
Is a Diamond worth 2 Titan Bloods O.O
torpid turret
Yeah looks like it doubles all damage
tired elk
DUH DUH DUH
naive tusk
You will need more Blood than Diamonds in the long run. Blood have a more practical use than Diamonds
olive badge
Artemis Attack + Aphrodite's Special + Heart Rend on Talos is pretty good
torpid turret
Hope they add a 5 minute Tight Deadline option
naive laurel
this is a lul moment
https://imgur.com/nzsRCgG
I didn't even intend to get a duo boon, just too ares as backup plan
naive tusk
At 1st, Soledad was like "Ugh Artemis, why do you have to be single?" then was like "hehehehe" XD
naive laurel
oh, and
https://imgur.com/ABE1wm6
Heartful can prove that I got all 3 duo boons in styx, lul
olive badge
is vengeful mood build good
naive tusk
He got them mostly for the lulz
olive badge
I tried it and it wasn't that fun as I expected it to be
especially when some revenge radius are different
torpid turret
Haelian has a video with all the revenge boons, was pretty funny
naive laurel
yeah, my plan is hera zeus cast, doom special +pierce special to doom the room as backupo
then comes 3 unexpected duo boons instyx, have to go for it :p
olive badge
so it might be just me
but I don't see any buff after I give nectar to bouldy
is that normal?
naive laurel
boon
olive badge
any buff ever
torpid turret
Open boon info menu
naive laurel
minor buff, as a rewards of bouldy as a nectar sink
tho i'd say they earned every single one of it
torpid turret
olive badge
when the timer runs out you lose HP per second
torpid turret
5/s I believe
olive badge
there was a time when I started Theseus with 45s on the clock
I managed to beat him and has like 8 seconds left
clenched my butts the entire time
naive laurel
wait u guys are having butts?
olive badge
also 9 mins is easy
only problem is elysium
which gets really bad at TD2
sometimes...
olive badge
it would depend
I usually get 5 minutes but Elysium has so many unpredictable time sink
like the average I got for it should be around 6
also 5 minutes on Styx completely screw you over if you get bad RNG
and had to go 4 chambers
torpid turret
3 min would be easy for tartarus/asphodel/styx
Elysium would be the real challenge
olive badge
though to admit, I am not that much of a speedrunner so my runs aren't optimised
torpid turret
avg styx in a speedrun is around a minute now I think
final fight another like ~40 seconds, and that's being generous
static prawn
I think a single armored satyr takes me more than a minute sometimes
olive badge
don't worry
that's speedrunner/seeded run standard
and I do neither so I am not that worried
torpid turret
Seeded doesn't really matter
Can be done in most runs with plenty of builds, not much speedrun strats besides taking all free rooms (chaos,shops,friends)
This is game anyone can speedrun imo, there aren't really any difficult to pull off tricks unless you are trying to be a top runner
And thats just routing through RNG manipulation
Of course I'm not saying those times should be the standard, just in context of Tight Deadline having lower time limits.
olive badge
I don't think 40 second is being generous at all
maybe I am just making excuses for sucking here but I don't think it is
unless I get a really good optimal build, I usually take a minute and a half
torpid turret
Generous for speedrun standards only
As in overestimated the avg styx in a speedrun
Current WR has a styx+final boss in 59 seconds
So that's more so what I meant by generous
His Styx was 32 seconds while his ||Hades|| fight was 27 seconds. Probably the fastest Styx recorded tbh
I still have casual runs that take upwards of 20mins+ when not speedrunning, it all depends on how you're playing really
rustic zinc
naive laurel
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Chamber_Reward
So getting bounties first in a certain heat then re-try the same heat that run helps getting more god boons/poms/hearts/obols, very interesting...
proven tartan
Picked up deadly reversal, spent spirit is just so weak now
i remember time it had 60% speed reduction
shadow oriole
I think its pretty good if you have max forced overtime up, but thats about it
torpid turret
@rustic zinc There is a 32 heat category. Current WR is 7:24
If you mean highest heat in a completed run I do not know
proud storm
if only you had spent 3 minutes more in this run you wouldve gotten the "complete a run in 1 hour or more" title
torpid turret
Tiny Vermin still breaks the music
I love the music
What is "Perfect Clear" title given for?
turbid needle
Max HP.
olive badge
anyway
in the chamber reward formula, the second chamber is the one immediately after the start, or the one after it?
like when you start you pick up the boon immediately right?
so does that count as chamber one, or chamber zero?
tired elk
aye ❤️
First time trying to go for speed lol
only 42 escape attempts no bully ;__;
Is ||Infernal Gate|| the first thing I should unlock with my diamonds?
clear dome
no
hybrid galleon
you can delay it imo
shadow oriole
grab the health on darkness, or the level up on nectar
hybrid galleon
yep thats the better priority
shadow oriole
fishing pauses the timer
tired elk
So the timer is the first thing that can go
Timer then the traps
I could put on the +1 invulnerability
shadow oriole
traps is the easiest heat but you can change at the beginning of any run
tired elk
I never step in lava
I once lost 3 lives in 5 seconds in a styx room by standing in the axes
shadow oriole
lava is the only trap I get hit by and almost exclusively on hydra with the extra heat difficulty
tired elk
while having the heat on and by having like a 350%~ bonus to traps by chaos lol
hybrid galleon
the only trap i get hit is the statue
shadow oriole
the axes are BS. the rats can trigger then off screen
hybrid galleon
my eyes are not great when elysium is disco light equivalent
tired elk
Funny thing is
shadow oriole
yeah I just never stand near the statues for that reason
shadow oriole
I used to do that, but I managed to figure out how to not do that
hybrid galleon
i cant see stuffs when the status is perfectly blend into the environment lmfao
clear dome
elysium=lag 100
hybrid galleon
at one point i just memorize the statue placement in each type of room
also low hp blood vignette is not helping
tired elk
Oh my aspect of chaos is maxed at 5 additional shields
hybrid galleon
i hate those in my video games
tired elk
welp now to get guan yo
and figure out how I'm suppose to beat hades with any type of melee weapon lol
shadow oriole
they need to work on Elysium. its too long, and a lot of the enemies are just terrible to fight
shadow oriole
guan yu, just use your special a ton
hybrid galleon
they are the source of cancer
clear dome
guan yu, spam the speen
hybrid galleon
they can be killed but the time it takes is just uuuuuuuuuugh
the worst part is when hades can spawn greatshields
2, greatshields
shadow oriole
great shield is the worst, but a lot of enemies run away making it take longer, or when they get extra health it can be really annoying to kill them
tired elk
I could just look at my codex lol
clear dome
bruiser greatshield lol
hybrid galleon
greatshields are the source why high heat does not like having timer on
clear dome
in elysium
shadow oriole
you have to kill them in Elysium and it can be really annoying. its a big part of why bow is so bad
tired elk
oh yea
hybrid galleon
@shadow oriole that one room where its just greatshield
thats when my mind started to fracture
shadow oriole
god I hate that. its responsible for like half the runs where I run out of time in Elysium
hybrid galleon
even better when its roiling and has blue kidneystones with them
roiling or maiming
shadow oriole
the kidney stones are easy to deal with, but if they get extra health I just want to give up
hybrid galleon
both are crippling depression except maimed makes me wanna die
shadow oriole
basically any of the low health enemies that spawn with extra health are miserable. those skulls in tartarus, the guys who shoot mines, it just feels like trying to tear down a wall with a toothpick
hybrid galleon
the lil pots?
they are easy wdym
the minefields arent hard to defuse anyway
good thing the increased movement does not make the bomb tick faster
it just means you have more red stuffs on your screen
shadow oriole
yeah but when they spawn with a bunch of extra health, especially if they also spawn more enemies, is just obnoxious to deal with
hybrid galleon
unless you are bowing usually it aint a problem
rich cedar
i only need to fight splitter to complete benefits package quest
hybrid galleon
but again, juan shot bow can destroy the numbskulls armors easily
i think the worst ones are armored louts, or louts in general
very unpredictable
shadow oriole
its just annoying, I dont die to them I just hate it
hybrid galleon
idk when does it want to charge or when does it want to just touch me
rich cedar
it was literally way easier for me to just have benefits package on instead
rich cedar
its been alright so far
hybrid galleon
for example, tele duping flamewheels are fun
rich cedar
only weird one is the elysium sprits that explode when they die
shadow oriole
honestly i just hate the all flame wheels rooms when its like 5 waves of them
hybrid galleon
Pure zeus
olive badge
Just got scincilating feast
Double strike
And the legendary
Ended up getting Zeus call and that one that gives you extra damage on call
shadow oriole
Zeus is great even with out the legendary
olive badge
Scincilating feast is amazing with the legendary
I drop 3 clouds on theseus and asterius
Their HP melts
shadow oriole
its great even without it tough. I always just go straight for it on Hera bow
hybrid galleon
packing 3 nuclear warhead
lament coral
turn forced overtime on and try the rock + gorgon head in Asphodel
shadow oriole
god I hate that encounter
rich cedar
what is forced overtime?
hybrid galleon
speedy bois
shadow oriole
it increases movement and attack speed. its one of the hardest oacts
hybrid galleon
laffs in no choice
tired elk
It's the only one that's +3 so I would bet LOL
clear dome
FO 1 is not that hard'
clear dome
after taking a certain amount of damage
tired elk
We don't have that in non hell mode ;__;
clear dome
i dont play hell mode
it exists in normal too
the pact make the certain amount higher
rich cedar
Do the pacts that give enemy + dmg and health also give it to bosses?
clear dome
fated list of minor prophecy
tired elk
Oh I see
weak rivet
B
tired elk
well I sold 3 XD
weak rivet
Bones
tired elk
ugh rip this run
weak rivet
PUT THE BONES BACK IN ZAG HE NEEDS THEM
quartz crow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695769434941554792/699201362801590322/unknown.png I reached the end while farming
cunning urchin
the worst part is when hades can spawn greatshields
The worst he summoned on me was a murderous army of archers.
tired elk
I don't know what to do if I don't get doom on special when using chaos shield lol
I've beaten hades without it just
it's so good lol
cunning urchin
I like the damage reduction so much I haven't tried any of the other shields yet.
cunning urchin
Well, I tried them on Lv.1 but haven't spent more blood on them yet.
tired elk
Yea it needs to be leveled a little
cunning urchin
I've heard yeah.
hybrid galleon
Archers are easy to deal with
they just keep running away
also relatively low health
tired elk
||LIFE-STEALING SPIN ATTACK???||
cunning urchin
I only had 1 dash. Was difficult to evade.
hybrid galleon
thats guan yu for you
tired elk
Jesus christ....
tired elk
lol
I can't wait to try it out
Just I feel like it would be hard to beat hades with just the base spear/sword
hybrid galleon
re-read
hybrid galleon
tired elk
There has to be a guide or spreadsheet out there of the easiest->hardest punishments
per heat level
surreal tapir
do lifesteal boons exist?
hybrid galleon
arthur is dumb fun but ultimately lose in terms of attack speed as heats crank up
surreal tapir
I'd like that ngl
surreal tapir
correct
surreal tapir
I mean we're probably not gonna be seeing any extra Olympians anyway 😂
I am comically bad with the spear and sword
quartz crow
i like achillies...
weak rivet
Wh at
tired elk
2 bugs in 2 runs O.O
hybrid galleon
what is the bug
hybrid galleon
actually no
its not broken
its poseidon tryna give you his fishing legendary
its forced no matter what
quartz crow
cool if only his fishing legendary guarentees chaos gates to have fishing spots
tired elk
So that's why my last run I kept getting Poseidon and not Ares lol
tired elk
Anyone know why my challenge in Styx just made each foe spawn like 8 eyeballs when 1 died....
I have the 20% more foes but..... really?
Zeus negative fight idk
quartz crow
tired elk
I was just killed by a chariot
I did not look both ways before crossing the street apparently
weak rivet
[thomas the tank engine theme]
tired elk
@weak rivet I saw that
quartz crow
This sounds awesome
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695769434941554792/699234515503153222/Screenshot_20200413-082714.png
quartz crow
nobody mentioned magnetic turns the fists into a ranged weapon
surreal tapir
ok that does sound awesome 😳
imagine getting boons but from the Chthonic Gods instead of the Olympians
lament coral
magnetic?
surreal tapir
the Talos Aspect of the Twin Fists has a special that allows you to pull in enemies so it's 'Magnetic'
gray lintel
it's still technically melee and only pulls one enemy and doesn't really work on bosses
gray lintel
i like the advancing kick tbh
by far my favorite thing
even works with demeter aspect
lament coral
well, the kick is a staple of Demeter, but it's not available with Talos
gray lintel
downside is specializing in it means you literally have no clue where you are
lament coral
how do you mean? Just aim and special
gray lintel
kick centric runs means it is hard to control your location
lament coral
uh, no?
You're just pulled towards the enemy you're targeting when you use the special
gray lintel
you press a button and it locks onto enemies and yeets towards them :p
it is inherently less controlled than regular punches or specials
lament coral
I play with kb n m, so I wouldn't know what it's like with a gamepad
lament coral
it's like a reverse Talos, instead of pulling enemies you're propelled towards em, allowing you to special enemies from half way across the screen
gray lintel
so enemies i targetted gets knocked back
gray lintel
it was still crazy fun don't get me wrong
just with advancing kick it's harder to dodge attacks :v
lament coral
you can't move while performing the special for a split second
gray lintel
posideon turns that up to 11 where you just go on an adventure lead by posideon where he takes you through a magical journey
10/10 would take posideon on advancing kick again
gray lintel
i don't think the dash strike works anymore
stable onyx
and more crit dmg
really?
my best crit was 970 on the dash
well multiple times lol it didnt take much to kill hades
i died to traps 3 times tho lmao
quartz crow
i mean i was hitting meg with it and it didn't pull her
at a distance
like a teleporting fist
kind of like maya from bl2
large enemies just take an instance of damage rather then getting held midair
and first try with it gave art special and oh boy... ranged crits lol
the 2 hits it does can one shot armored enemies (2 if it gets pulled)
oneshotting armored numbskulls is satisfying
gray lintel
regular specials can do that too
it's partly why I love advancing kick
advancing kick is great it's both a dash to enemies and double hits
brave dune
Does a dash-upper count as dash-strike damage or special damage?
lament coral
special, though it used to be affected by the dash-strike stuff
now, dash-strike is exclusive to dash attack
as is stated in its tooltip
brave dune
Ah, makes sense
naive laurel
@cunning urchin it seems people are so biased that they don't even want a neutral vote for any opinion...hehe
btw, doom is 1.1s now right?
cunning urchin
lol looks like it. But we don't know how many would vote neutral on that neutral vote.
naive laurel
Yeah....
Also, life essence from well, I remember it can give more than 40 heal right?
versed torrent
how do favors activate?
naive laurel
ugh, define "favor"? I might got an idea of what u talking about but just to be safe
versed torrent
on the wiki it says once you give someone enough nectar they will be locked out of recieving more until you complete their "favor"
I was just wondering how it triggers since I've given two people the required amount, but nothing happened
dusa and the boulder moving guy specifically if you wanted to know
errant narwhal
probably just by talking to them until they ask
naive laurel
most are triggered by depleting the queueing other conversations and then u'll get to the favor asking one
then, complete the task indicated in the conversation, then u'll get the further affinity progress unlocked
Is it just me getting lucky or is it that greater call grants iframes?
pearl willow
https://streamable.com/k7ntrk So I have Poseidon cast with Wave Pounding +30% damage vs bosses and the 'Blizzard Shot' duo. I also have Breaking Wave but don't think that's relevant here. I'm not sure if this is working right or not lol but it's murderous on bosses. I can't tell if it's the slow projectile piercing through the bosses and dealing multiple instances of damage or if it's spawning the shards inside their hitbox and those are doing the damage or what. But you can see right off the bat Theseus loses almost half his health and then Minotaur takes 4800 just before dying. Any ideas?
lament coral
it does seem that the pools hit em multiple times in quick succession
the few direct hits on the bull while he was standing still did barely any damage, but then the shots that landed while he was standing next to the pillar melted him
rich cedar
ive never seen so fast kill this boss lol
naive laurel
Blizzard shot is kinda busted with unknown mechanics
I think it's also them being hit multiple times by the base shot tho, but the spawned whirls acts similar to elysium splitters' shot where u can get hit for huge amount if it denotates near u.
since u actually have the rare blizzard shot instead of my common at this run, I'd say it's more about hitting them multiple times, as they barely get knocked back.
https://www.twitch.tv/soledad630/clip/TenuousFairCatOSkomodo
@pearl willow
pearl willow
Yeah I noticed on my Hades kill as well that when he was moving it wasn't nearly as effective as it seemed to pass through him normally. I think it's the pierce on the main projectile dealing damage multiple times as well possibly augmented by the shards. When I hit the Minotaur head on at the end of my clip you can still see him stutter backwards briefly which makes me think he's being pushed back far enough to still get hit again and then that repeats. I dunno, it's nuts and a great duo lol. I was tempted to see how/if it still worked when I had the option to sell the Poseidon boon but it was my only real damage so didn't risk it 😄
naive laurel
I have the double knockback on that run, it kinda ruined the dmg a bit 2bh
gray lintel
for me it melted things because I had explosions when t hey reached 10 chill I think :x
finally got all the duo boons prophecy btw. wooo \o/
still frustrating to not get it until the end, though :c I had to use both of my boons and so many fated rerolls. Despite posideon showing up uninvited on all my melee runs when I don't want him, trying to get a duo with him and he's like "nah i'll sit this one out and have a party with my fishes instead"
meanwhile artemis is like "haaaay you wanna be friends with me" despite not showing up at all on my previous runs when I needed crit :c
thorny sierra
Do upgrades to dash-strike damage (like Artemis dash, Chaos boons) affect dash-special? I assume not but I'm not sure.
delicate nimbus
Yeah
gray lintel
It used to but I've read that they do not anymore.
turbid needle
@thorny sierra They do not.
tired elk
What keepsakes do you guys like using?
azure lake
skull earing and bone hourglass depending on the build elysium and forward
pearl willow
usually go boon -> coinpurse -> hourglass/boon -> acorn/collar depending on heat and build
tepid ridge
I’ll often do the same with the exception of sometimes forcing another boon on the second floor and maybe adding the broken spear point because the tic damage on some of the last biome rooms is outta control.
torpid turret
Depends on the build usually, if I need more boons I try to force them out with their keepsakes. Otherwise I just use coin purse then bone hourglass
naive laurel
Tart: Boon/chaos
Asph: Boon
Elysium: Boon/bracer/hourglass/collar
Styx: Bracer/hourglass/tooth/coinpurse
rich cedar
what rail apsect is good
im finally gonna get a full run with it
i need it for the quest
naive laurel
actually fairly equally balanced imo
rich cedar
Always do coinpurse in asphodel
torpid turret
I always use it in tartarus unless I need to force a boon. Nice to have a large sum of gold at the start
That way can pretty much skip most gold rooms
weak rivet
I like 🦋
spare zealot
The Routine Inspection pact, if I had nothing specced into the last 3 mirror abilities would it do anything? Or does it start from the last specced ability
winter birch
I don't know much but how bad is the spear special
Because even when I have it over 200% damage it does heck all
turbid needle
It's actually pretty decent. I'm not a huge fan of it but it does work.
torpid turret
Exploding launcher/Charged skewer with artemis on the special is pretty good
Or Poseidon
naive laurel
spear special has its uses, but it relys on aspect or hammer
zag special is a decent base
torpid turret
Yeah usually go zag or guan yu
torpid turret
Its what?
turbid needle
The hitbox for Guan Yu's Special is absolutely massive.
Significantly wider than the weapon's model
turbid needle
It's a little braindead.
naive tusk
Got back from a Triple Explosive Shot Zagreus bow run
turbid needle
naive tusk
Abyssal Blood + Frost Strike + Killing Freeze included. Bosses were literally giving up as I just spammed rockets at them at point blank XD
marsh pawn
theres anything more cheap and strong than triple-bomb + eris aspect ?
torpid turret
Spread fire is arguably the strongest in the game rn
turbid needle
It's pretty tremendously OP right now, use it while you can.
torpid turret
Actually looking forward to the nerf so speedrun meta changes and gets interesting again
marsh pawn
spread fire combined with which boon?
turbid needle
Deadly Strike.
marsh pawn
ill give a try thanks
torpid turret
WR is 3:59 right now using that build
We got our first sub 4 not long before the competition ended
naive tusk
I had Spread Fire just today but I didn't like it. Probably if I get to use it more, I will start to like it
torpid turret
It's all about getting deadly strike and +3 dashes from hermes
naive tusk
I just don't like to dash-strike with Exagryph a lot 😓
torpid turret
Its pretty much all dash strikes
naive tusk
I get the feeling it feels smoother on KBM
torpid turret
Nah I use controller
naive tusk
Ah, gotcha
torpid turret
Only one runner using KBM rn as far as I know
naive tusk
I will have to practice with it more then
torpid turret
Its a shotgun basically so you wanna dash into enemies and blow them up
naive tusk
Speaking of, it felt weird that Spread Fire didn't stagger enemies. I think it should but maybe it doesn't for balance's sake?
torpid turret
Don't think any rail attacks stagger enemies
turbid needle
It's used with controller for the most part.
Explosive Fire used to but it was deemed too powerful and it got the 
Same with my boy.
turbid needle
I still like the AoE, but a lack of stagger on any Rail fire option, including Hestia, really bothers me.
torpid turret
At least with spread fire it's completely unnecessary since it pretty much already has AoE
turbid needle
I look forward to the Spread Fire reversion. (if it stays a piercing AoE and the damage gets nerfed I'm gonna be salty)
torpid turret
So do I because I'd love the speedrun meta to change
Would like to host another competition and it have nothing to do with spread fire rail this time
dense locust
I know spread fire is the speed run meta, but how does it fair at 32+ heat?
naive laurel
I want to ask u guys about my idea of spreadfire change first
turbid needle
It's good.
naive laurel
what if, it staggers people, but only does 25 dmg
turbid needle
No, revert to five-shot burst.
naive laurel
rn the problem w/ spread fire, myself, is that it does not stagger people but also makes u melee
so u need to go glass cannon
torpid turret
Current 32 heat WR is with spread fire as well
turbid needle
Wait, really? Did it beat Haelian's time last patch?
dense locust
Yeah if I went a spread fire build, I would definitely have tone down the dps
torpid turret
Don't need to stagger enemies when they are dead
dense locust
But that's given a random seed
naive laurel
2bh a base 100 dmg spammable base attack method is bound to be busted in this game :p
Yeah...which is why i ask for the dmg nerf but add the stagger
cuz I think that problem will surface after the nerf
torpid turret
Haelians time last patch has been beaten by like 4 minutes
turbid needle
Dang.
dense locust
Or if spread fire took up more ammo
torpid turret
Current 32 heat WR is 7:24 by Touch I believe
turbid needle
I don't believe that would fix Spread Fire unless you overnerfed the ammo count, and that just makes it bad hammer like Delta Chamber.
torpid turret
He is continuing to push it down as well
naive laurel
What can we do to help delta chamber tho, on the other hand
naive laurel
I want to see this being buffed but I have no idea how this can be buffed other than reduce the interval
spring turret
more attacks per volley maybe
turbid needle
If we must keep a burst option, change it to proper burst fire, give it a stagger, and increase base damage.
naive laurel
Return the infinity chamber but make each shot 8 dmg?
rail in general is in dire need to balance change 2bh
I feel like hammer literally decides if I win the run or not
spring turret
make it like have 6 attacks which is half the base ammo but u dont need to reload
naive tusk
Make Spread Fire a proper shotgun where you can only shoot a couple of rounds then have to reload
Who said that?
naive laurel
bring out the guillotine
dense locust
😛
naive laurel
we have a viable execution target
naive tusk
Spread Fire requiring 5 ammo to be shot, so at 12 ammo it's 2 shots then reload (24 ammo = 4 shots then reload)
That doesn't sound too bad
dense locust
Maybe make it 4 shots per
so 3 shots per reload
and then if thats too strong still, increase reload time
naive laurel
Nah, I'd say it should just be double dmg same interval of fire, if to be simple
torpid turret
^
naive laurel
I havbn't experienced the pre-change version, but I'd say I'd never take it just because how often I'd reload
spring turret
How was it before the change i never used it then
naive laurel
but it does sounds balanced
turbid needle
5-pellet burst.
Didn't pierce, didn't hit 18 enemies for max damage, but was otherwise the same.
spring turret
is it like the bow where u can just shoot all enemies in 1 burst if ur close enough
turbid needle
No, pellets disappear upon contact.
spring turret
i mean all bursts on one enemy
turbid needle
If you took Piercing Fire it worked like the bow.
spring turret
like the bow special how u can stack all dmg on 1 enemy if u close enough
turbid needle
Yup.
spring turret
they just buffed it then cuz u dont have to get as close to do the max dmg
turbid needle
The buff was both unnecessary and too powerful.
torpid turret
So I get XBOX buttons when using my PS4 controller, is there a way to solve this?
spring turret
its like making the bow special do 90 dmg at the start
or whatever it does with all of the shots
turbid needle
Like making it deal 90 damage in a giant blast that encompasses its entire damage range.
naive laurel
I think, a revert of spread fire w/ a spread width decrease might work
turbid needle
Tightening the spread?
naive laurel
yep, a bit
spring turret
when i saw the spreadfire weapon i always thought it used multiple ammo per shot
turbid needle
I wouldn't hate that.
spring turret
because it would make sense
naive laurel
it serves the purpose of this change, but doesn't break this upgrade
spring turret
make it an actual shot gun in 1 tile
then u have to get super close and higher risk in using that.
dense locust
Also increasing time between possible shots would be more along the line with shotgun
instead of being able to just dash-attack with an automatic shotgun
naive laurel
Dash atk on rail can use a rework tho, if they wanna approach this differently
I don't mind if dash attack doesn't use ammo
ofc, would be single attack
dense locust
Well as far as keeping with the theme of what spread fire is (a shotgun) it makes sense to either make it slower or take up more ammo
dense locust
If anyone is looking for a fun run, I'm doing aspect of achilles spear and forced a ice wine build and its a lot of fun
dense locust
Anyone know if foes hit by your charge back to your spear with achilles aspect are affected by all of the same boons that you have on your special?
dusky grove
I think so?
i mean i have seen foes got hit with slow sometimes
but i cant say much since i usually just dont care
turbid needle
You know the scene from the Patriot with the cannonball that someone edited so it's Gerard Butler as Leonidas?
dense locust
Achilles aspect Spear, Breaching Skewer and Extending Jab hammers (not really any hammers that are useful here), 5 athena dashes and athena call, 15% sweet surrender and 15% high tolerance. This build is loads of fun, especially if you can get a second bloodstone (was using stygian soul obviously): https://imgur.com/1Xvd6jY
@turbid needle I don't but that sounds hilarious
turbid needle
Oh, wow, that's terrifying.
turbid needle
I wish it were faster.
dense locust
1.2k per ice win at hades
turbid needle
It's hard to use it as a dash if you haven't already thrown it.
dense locust
with the buff
true
but its a fun alternative way of playing
Having two points in damage control made me use it offensively most of the time
torpid turret
I love love love stygian soul
dense locust
just to take away the shields
torpid turret
Managed to get 8 casts with stygian soul, constant cast destruction
Its insane
Even if you get 3+ its amazing
dense locust
yeah I love making mage builds
torpid turret
One of my favorite mirror changes
dense locust
with the hermes cast reduction, and considering I can only buff 2 casts at a time, this was plenty
dense locust
Its a ton of fun though, everything being at 10 chill always, being able to icewine through walls
It's so safe yet so devastating
torpid turret
I've been prioritizing darkness boons from chaos lately so not many cast builds being done atm
dense locust
I'm really loving 20 heats for trying out builds I wouldn't normally touch
ahh yeah, I've done a few of those but most of the time is just feels like a chore for whatever reason
torpid turret
It doesn't feel like much of a chore to me
dense locust
Although it really does help to have that extra fated persuasion or what not
torpid turret
Because I've been running whatever weapon has the darkness buff
dense locust
that's more power to you
torpid turret
And going in blind and taking whatever is offered, so its random every time
dense locust
true, it does allow for more spontaneity
torpid turret
Yeah I take the 4 boon rerolls
dense locust
I might as well buy my final fated persuasion
torpid turret
I need 6 more of the other rerolls to have maxed out my mirror
dense locust
the thing is more expensive than the sum of all of my darkness in the mirror right now
torpid turret
Getting close, but still so far
Almost done with gems too
If you get an epic darkness boon from chaos it's not so bad
Buying darkness from wells/shops gives you heaps
Bosses give heaps, so I run without bounties
Troves give a massive amount
dense locust
yeah i know the drill, and it usually ends up to about 2-3k darkness a run
torpid turret
Sometimes get 2k off|| Hades|| alone
dense locust
Certainly, love when you've got like +500% darkness from chaos
take bouldy for that little extra as well
torpid turret
Its awesome, love seeing those big numbers
So im kinda enjoying the darkness grind rn, no clue what I'll be doing once that's done
dense locust
Yeah my enjoyment out of this game is based in my own goals, and doing off the wall builds I haven't tried on 20 heat has been my jam lately
torpid turret
I actually still have plenty of bounties to do on most weapons, so it'll probably be that
dense locust
For some its unlocking everything, for others its speed running
torpid turret
For me it's both haha
dense locust
Ahh yeah I've got everything on my normal account except for 2-3 mirror upgrades and 1 more contractor upgrade. I'm trying to bring all weapons up to 35 heat because that's right about where I can still have fun despite it being very difficulty
But there always is the hell mode account haha
torpid turret
This games has so much content for an early access release
dense locust
No kidding, I'm approaching 600 hours
of course I've had my fair share of leaving the game on, but there is no way its less than 550
torpid turret
Best roguelite of all time imo
In its current state even, imagine when it's fully released
torpid turret
WF = Warframe?
dense locust
I got into a huge roguelite kick and this certainly tops the charts of my favorite
torpid turret
I've played a lot of roguelites and this one really hits the mark for me
dense locust
Lots of really promising and unique ones that are coming out soon which i'm looking forward to, but this one will probably remain #1
This was another really fun run lately. I felt like and ice mage towards the end: https://imgur.com/Sji1zpo
torpid turret
Have you tried blizzard shot yet?
dense locust
Yeah that would be another fun run to try
When you do darkness runs, do you keep the egg keepsake the entire time until styx?
Hmm im not convinced that explosive shot with sniper shot works at all
torpid turret
No I don't really ever use chaos egg
Doesn't help you find more chaos so it's really not doing much for me
Rather have the gold/boon/dmg
turbid needle
It's not used for speedrunning, correct?
Even with potential Lights of Ixion between biomes.
torpid turret
In any heat we just don't take damage so we can take all the gates
in 32 heat touch might use the egg, I believe i've seen him use it a few times
any heat we buy a lot of chaos gates from wells
Sometimes 2 from a single well
turbid needle
Right, Persuasion.
dense locust
I just meant darkness farming
torpid turret
It's mainly in tartarus, you can only take 3 damage before hitting 3rd chaos gate
turbid needle
I guess you only need three or four spawns that are all found in Tartarus which is easily mapped.
torpid turret
Then it's not really a problem anymore, you can always force a DD to get health back
dense locust
Why would you do 32 heat for darkness farming
turbid needle
Oh, sorry, I think we've been talking about speedrunning for a moment.
torpid turret
I was answering Schpoons question
dense locust
oh lol that was confusing for a second
turbid needle
I don't think I'd use Chaos Egg for farming, though.
torpid turret
I never use egg nah
turbid needle
Like Sink said, it doesn't give you any more spawns, which is what you want/need.
torpid turret
Rather have gold to afford chaos gates+darkness
dense locust
But why not, makes any chaos gate more likely to have and epic or rare darkness increase
turbid needle
Does not increase Gate spawn rate.
dense locust
I find myself with more than enough gold for all of that
Sure but it does make that gate better
turbid needle
Only improves rarity of drops and prevents damage.
torpid turret
Already have epic increase from mirror, not really necessary
Plus fated persuasion
dense locust
Any heats you take to increase darkness farming?
turbid needle
Not anymore.
dense locust
maybe 2 points in FO?
torpid turret
Nope nothing really helps darkness farming
dense locust
doesn't having 2 points in FO make foes spawn faster?
torpid turret
I take 5 heat in Tight Deadline so I can take erebus in tartarus if I need to though
turbid needle
Oh, like mechanically speeding up a run?
torpid turret
And because I hate survival rooms
dense locust
Yeah just the ideal set up to farm darkness
quartz crow
um guys... I think i might beat him this time. I didn't even sell anything (atleast from aspho up because i took a break yesterday or so after reaching the place)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695769434941554792/699456140336955422/unknown.png
and i got the diamond
torpid turret
Its not a big difference with 40% FO
But it does make the run harder, its up to you
When I'm farming darkness I like to chill tbh
dense locust
2 points in FO and nothing else is still pretty chill, but I get that
torpid turret
@quartz crow Good luck man
I'm not even sure if the 40% FO making spawns faster is even confirmed or still in the game tbh
dense locust
Every keepsake outside of some extra gold just feels needless doing darkness runs
Well its what speedrunners use
for that exact reason, so I assume they are correct
torpid turret
Ik I've held the WR a few times haha
quartz crow
im just multitasking. getting a bit extra darkness, going for the expensive item, ranking up keepsakes, rerolling for gifts, and dying to get to 80% dmg resistance
dense locust
Yeah, but you think they might have changed the FO spawning enemies faster lately?
torpid turret
I'm just saying in our circle we aren't even sure tbh
dense locust
ahh lol i had no idea it was up in the air
feels like something that could be easily verified
quartz crow
when i do complete the game entierly ill go to hellmode since godmode isn't allowed and minmax what ik is best for me
torpid turret
Let me look in the code and see if there's something
dense locust
Either way, the difference it even would make in darkness farming is negligble
torpid turret
Right
It's nice having some heat either way to keep it interesting and have the option to take erebus if it's a good choice
dense locust
Why is erebus a good choice for darkness farming?
is there a darkness option for erebus?
turbid needle
No, just as a potential gimme for a very valuable drop.
torpid turret
Yeah not for darkness farming
Personally need more codex entries so I like to have the option to take them
pliant palm
Hi everyone c:
dense locust
ah, true, while farming darkness, it's also a good opportunity to take care of things that would be too difficult when trying to climb the heat ladder
quartz crow
btw for the talos aspect... you ever try pulling souls away from weapons even if they are armored?
it's amazing 🙂
nope
dense locust
Ice wine is an amazing cast for builds that don't revolve around cast
turbid needle
It's great for ones that do revolve around Cast, too.
turbid needle
Almost explode-on-click.
dense locust
But having it as a secondary is extremely powerful utility if you're trying to climb heats
pliant palm
This game seems to have so much more depth than what I thought when I first heard of it...
dense locust
I'd imagine poseido keepsake would be some what high priority for darkness farming
even though it kinda pales in comparison to anything from chaos
torpid turret
I don't usually seek it out, but it's a nice pickup
torpid turret
quartz crow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695769434941554792/699460229506531348/unknown.png granted i had godmode on but who cares. I'm not ness maxed out
torpid turret
What does god mode even do?
clear dome
give dr
quartz crow
20% then 2% each death
torpid turret
Ah not what I expected
quartz crow
kind of stinks that you have to die to bring it up so it's only pure cheese at max then
torpid turret
Thought it makes you just straight up invincible
dense locust
Chiron aspect with Explosive Shot and Sniper Shot hammers. Trying to darkness farm but the build was too fun I had to post: https://imgur.com/QgPZNBk
quartz crow
dense locust
Chaos is such a jerk... I swear they know when I'm trying to darkness farm and just laugh from the sidelines
quartz crow
how stinking rare is a fishing spot in chaos
seems too rare. but rares guarentee titan blood or something that's the reason for looking
naive tusk
My main reason is the codex
stiff flume
ive had 2 fishing spots in about 100 hours there
chilly violet
yo does rolling knuckle actually do anything, or am I just not using it right?
dense locust
I've had 1 time within the last two updates and once this update. I can't imagine the feeling of missing the fish once I finally had it spawn...
Actually I think it was twice before this update. So 3 times within 550ish hours...
naive tusk
Rolling Knuckle is the longer range right?
dense locust
Long knuckle is
dense locust
bro
I've got dark thirst and enshrouded eclipse worth 282% right now
And it's the only chaos boon offered within the last two runs
oh wait
I lied lol, I've also got a rare paupers eclipse for 188%
torpid turret
I need to get 3 epics
dense locust
Yeah getting it early could probably net you 7kish darkness
even with what I have, which is 490% total, a treasure trove is about 800
torpid turret
Chamber 7 I already have epic speacial, explosive return, and epic darkness buff
Looking good
dense locust
@chilly violet tbh I actually haven't tried it out much, but I'll try and get it my next run and let you know how it works for me
One thing I really enjoy about darkness farming on 0 heat is I can try literally whatever I feel like
And still feel strong
naive laurel
Oh, check what I got today in my failures of runs
what a shop
And this
https://imgur.com/P9veFCm
bought a centaur heart, and left with these
spare zealot
pompompompompomp;pom
naive laurel
I only won 1 of these 2, wanna guess?
spare zealot
those zeus boons on you are going to be ripped as hell when you step outside
dense locust
The one with a dd, @naive laurel
naive laurel
Yep
I have got a new low today on losing against 60% labor 40% OT upgraded medusa skullcrusher
really, really low
chilly violet
@dense locust supposedly your supposed to get a dash strike after attack sequence. but for me nothing happens at all
quartz crow
the well i mean
naive tusk
Ah, that upgrade