Only when on double attack upgraded shield imo, and even that is a stretch
#h1-builds-and-combat
naive laurel
lament coral
why would you want him with the double attack?
turbid needle
You don't want that, the knockback kicks enemies out before the second blow lands.
naive laurel
Nah, it's for wallslam
solid cairn
Can we get a poseidon rework
turbid needle
Maybe, it might hit fast enough for the second hit.
lament coral
so you take Poseidon to restore knockback?
naive laurel
Kinda, like I said, still a stretch
The time I took it I basically was relying nostly on wallslam dmg to clear rooms
solid cairn
Poor Poseidon
lament coral
I took Poseidon with Chaos shield a few times, simply because I knew it wouldn't compromise my survivability
naive laurel
Imo tho, Posideon should be a pull effect, or wallslam dmg needs to be doubled or even tripled
solid cairn
Nah just give him 9999% special damage
stiff flume
i dont know what it is about all of poseidons boons, i dont even want knockback on my builds
lament coral
exactly
stiff flume
just makes it harder to burst enemies down
solid cairn
Poseidon can work if you go like full Poseidon
lament coral
knockback is only good in Styx
even in Asphodel, it's a hassle because of all the fliers
naive laurel
Knockback as a dmg source might be legit, If it's better than what It is currently
I mean wallslam dmg ofc
lament coral
it doesn't address the issue of pushing the enemy away
stiff flume
also doesnt work on bosses does it
lament coral
forcing you to run after them all the time
naive laurel
Barely, but It does
I have had the pleasure of wallbanging thesius, pardon my spelling
lament coral
yes, they actually made a separate boon to make knockback beneficial against bosses
it's garbage, too
naive laurel
30% on epic is...Not much, considering it's 2 boons providing similar dmg increase as 1 from apho
1 base attack enhance, and 1 boss dmg increase, ofc
Imo the only nice thing from poseidon is his cast, but there are better ones for duo boon cast
muted herald
poseidon's call is pretty okay
just finished a run with poseidon+zeus on rocket hexagryph
although i kind of cheesed hades with ares cast, but most of my wave clear was with the rocket+the bolts that fire when you knock someone back
sullen valley
How does Boon Swapping work...?
Almost every time someone offers a higher rarity boon to me, it has a higher damage than the one I already have
Poseidon gave me something that dealt more damage than a Demeter special!
lament coral
the boon replacement is always of a higher rarity
muted herald
theyre 'trying to outdo' the others
turbid needle
Poseidon already has better Special damage than Demeter.
sullen valley
Oh...he does?
lament coral
yes, 10% more damage
muted herald
what's demeter's special again
lament coral
but a much worse effect
sullen valley
Ah, aight
surreal jolt
Poseidons call is the best one
surreal jolt
Invulnerability and controllable multi hit, if you get a high rarity the dmg increase and scaling is insane
lament coral
I think all of the melee calls are lackluster
stuff like Zeus and Dio
the damage is good, sure, but you have to stay on top of the enemy to get the effect
sullen valley
Yeah, they’re kinda...eh?
surreal jolt
Plus the hits can crit, beast of a call, no equal
turbid needle
Zeus and Dionysus have the best calls.
sullen valley
You’d think that the ranged Calls would deal less damage and the melee calls would deal more
turbid needle
Huge DPS, don't lock you out of your kit like Poseidon and Ares.
sullen valley
well, if you are a MELEE user yeah
lament coral
they do so already
earnest ravine
The Dio one shreds things in seconds, and the Zeus one is really nice if you've invested a lot into Zeus but also in general.
muted herald
Artemis' call is very lackluster
sullen valley
It is, if you don’t use the Greater Call
muted herald
Decent for bosses if youre invested in crit tho
sullen valley
That’s exactly what I use it for
lament coral
I'd rather calls worked like Theseus ones
sullen valley
Hehe
surreal jolt
Ares is awful, most things jump or move or teleport, and the dmg boons that increase dmg on continuing hits are either bugged or suck. Poseidon though?? You're super fast and can get 2-3 hits in with 1 bar.
muted herald
Poseidon's call works great with the zeus duo
lament coral
Ares blades work as intended
muted herald
That bolts things when they get knocked back
lament coral
that applies to the call's blade, too
sullen valley
Yeah, Ares is best for enemies like Brightswords, Witches, Thugs, Hades, Pests, Hydra...
earnest ravine
I'd like Poseidon's more if I didn't need to worry about the movement bug with it.
As is, because of that, I can never take it safely.
surreal jolt
Zeus seek range is so so so short, Artemis needs a full gauge to be effective so I might as well use Aphrodite. I'm not staking my life on 1 single dice roll crit.
sullen valley
Satyrs, Venom Crystals, Big Rats, minibosses...
turbid needle
Ares's Aid, like the rest of his kit, is super lackluster if you only have one boon and kinda terrifying with a lot of investment.
muted herald
Wdym the rest of his kit
turbid needle
Doom and other Blade Rifts.
lament coral
it's just that he has 2 branches, Doom and blade
sullen valley
His set of boons
earnest ravine
that was the best typo
turbid needle
Doom is incredible with plenty of investment.
lament coral
so if you're pumping Doom, blades are garbage
and if you're pumping blades, your Doom stuff is garbage
muted herald
Who needs doom though
lament coral
Merciful End
muted herald
Better off getting better on hit effects
sullen valley
People who don’t rely on a certain attack for damage
surreal jolt
Everytime I try and make ares work he gives me the oddest combo of boons and I limp my way to the end with a weak doom, overall dmg increase and a big cast that does no dmg
muted herald
Even with just artemis duo with cast ive made it work
sullen valley
I don’t try to get Ares a lot. He does give some good ones, but like...
lament coral
blue shields completely destroy it, absolute waste
muted herald
As long as youve got the seeking blade rift youre set for life
sullen valley
He’s good as a chemistry offerer.
muted herald
Most of my cast based runs have been with Ares
earnest ravine
I'm sad they made the +damage thing's interaction with the Zeus shield be only for the first hit
lament coral
really? Not Artemis?
sullen valley
That honestly sounds cool
earnest ravine
I rarely used that combo but it was silly when I did
sullen valley
Artemis has some good cast builds though too, you should try that.
lament coral
sure, but it takes forever to get blades off the ground
sullen valley
I could imagine a full Ares build too...
lament coral
you can start creaming people with Arty in Tartarus already
surreal jolt
Ares dmg increase needs to be a duration. I always figure if stacked that with all the other 1 hit dmg increase id be a monster but none of it seems to stack correctly.
muted herald
Although arty duo is essentially required for ares cast to feel good
lament coral
there is a boon that increases blade duration
muted herald
So it's pretty finicky
lament coral
vortex, I believe
muted herald
Yeah sucky sucky
earnest ravine
If you can manage to get Fully Loaded with Stygian Soul and blade rifts,, even without the seeking boon it gets silly.
muted herald
I havent found that too effective
earnest ravine
Or like, one or two Chaos cast ups.
muted herald
Whats fully loaded again
earnest ravine
+3 bloodstones.
lament coral
+3 casts
muted herald
Ah
surreal jolt
Sucky bad, pushy better, play Poseidon cast, also best cast in the game
lament coral
hah, no
sullen valley
****SILVARIA YIU HAVE BO IDEA
muted herald
Was my first time getting athena cast today too
sullen valley
HOW GOOD THAT FEELS
sullen valley
HECKIN STYGIAN SOUL AND 6 CASTS
sullen valley
ALL OF THEM ARE ARTEMIS AND I THINK DUAL CASTS
muted herald
Also i didnt know there was a boon that guarantees epics and above only boons for the rest of the run
earnest ravine
Oh yeah, it's super handy.
earnest ravine
But yeah I got thaat setup with Ares cast and a full blade rift build and it was just
surreal jolt
Aphrodite never gives me anything good like that. Gives me Garbo defense items then I never see her again
sullen valley
I confronted the God of Hell in the cold of winter. I spoke to him that it was time to rest.
It was my turn to attack. Never his.
earnest ravine
ideal
sullen valley
Hang on, here’s another “You’re not allowed to attack” screenshot, just a mo...
sullen valley
muted herald
https://youtu.be/nrYzBYmz_TM felt pretty good
turbid needle
I've seen a few 30 second Hades fights.
sullen valley
I’m pretty sure I killed him in a minute with that one
muted herald
Although i was almost only attacking once every few seconds
Probably couldve gone faster
I still dont know what most of the debuffs do
Boiling blood?
sullen valley
If “Let the big boys play” wasn’t enough, here’s a part two because I had SUCH A GOOD BUILD @earnest ravine
muted herald
Couldnt tell what the armored boys were doing too, since they had the pact perk
earnest ravine
Boiling Blood like, doubles the damage you take from the final boss and shuts off your one shot protection.
is kinda scary
muted herald
earnest ravine
wtb that run on 20 heat
sullen valley
Oh no you have iframes
But if you take 100 damage you can take 100 damage again
In the next frame
muted herald
Oh
sullen valley
As opposed to “oof I took 70 damage good thing I have this invuln shield to protect me from everything for a hot second”
muted herald
I havent tried to learn the math in hades
earnest ravine
And he can also 100% can one shot you if you have that status on.
I can unfortunately confirm that.
muted herald
Since it's my relaxing game instead of hah gotta speedrun minmax
I have path of exile for that
I also didnt know you could play without heat gauge
I thought after every clear with each weapon you had to keep raising the heat
earnest ravine
Good news for you, if you play the aptly named Hell Mode, that's exactly the case.
solid cairn
struggling at 17 heat with guan yu special
I just can't regen my health fast enough
I have full lasting consequences
idk what to do
this run I have to choose between quick spin and charged skewer
I am going for a special build so unfortuntely I must forego the quick spin
turbid needle
Turn Lasting Consequences down.
solid cairn
why
also I just lost a run with quick spin and charged skewer
I have maxed EM
the hydra is just painful
sullen valley
Ew
solid cairn
idk what else to put heat into
@turbid needle
I've kinda been winging it with the pact
solid cairn
in a bit
wonder if I should do level 2 tight deadline
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/696062705940824144/unknown.png is this an okay setup @sullen valley
turbid needle
Drop a level of Forced Overtime, put it into Benefits Package and something else.
Or you could put it into Tight Deadline.
solid cairn
aight
fallow niche
Get rid of Hard Labor andd put it into Lasting Consequences
Guan Yu can heal through 100% LC
buoyant junco
when you repeat bossfights from conquered heat levels they drop darkness
is the amount higher on higher heat?
like can I farm it by repeating 16 heat faster than repeating no heat for example?
zinc oasis
Yup
azure lake
hey guys, I'm new to the game (trying to clear with all weapons at like 1~2 heat rn, about 10h played), and I'm trying some builds of my own, and I tried an artemis cast build with poseidon's sword, and it felt really bad compared to like the athena cast with the same weapon, was I unlucky or did I do something wrong ?
turbid needle
Probably just unlucky.
azure lake
Oh ok, i'll try again later, also do you have any tip on how to get better map clear/AoE with this build ? The boss damage was ludicrous but the clear felt so bad, again I got really unlucky I felt but
fallow niche
Its a bit slow at first but with poms and things like Dual Shot it should be pretty strong @azure lake
Extra casts from Artemis Legendary or Chaos should help a lot too
azure lake
I got some, but the sheer number especially in elysium was a pain to deal with, while with athena's cast my single target DPS was good but way inferior but the AoE was really good
fallow niche
Poseidon sword lets you dig out the casts from enemies when you special them
And smaller enemies like flamewheels should die instantly
Flurry cast from Hermes helps with them a ton I should note
Granted, the build is absolutely nowhere near as powerful as it used to be, they really nerfed it into the ground, especially the Artemis Legendary nerf
azure lake
yeah that's what I used, but still felt bad at AoE, I don't know, might have just got unlucky. By the way is there any place were people share builds and ideas that they have ?
turbid needle
Here, mostly.
azure lake
Alright, thanks a lot for your help guys !
unkempt geyser
whats the consensus on bow/shield specials? like, say, with the most optimized build, yay/nay? curious what the opinion here is bc i just saw someone say they're worthless lmao
earnest ravine
Shield specials are fantastic on pretty much all aspects (even saying that as a Zeus aspect die-hard).
The bow ones are more situational but still alright.
turbid needle
Special is mostly used on Chiron on the bow.
earnest ravine
^
unkempt geyser
" I can run bow with Hera, but felt like half the shots missed when I did the Chiron aspect." i feel like this person is largely unfamilar with how to run the aspects and equates that to them being bad
earnest ravine
Probably? Sounds like an experience issue more than anything else.
Since if you do the Chiron aspect right, none of them miss.
earnest ravine
It's my favourite of the bow aspects even if it is a little finicky.
unkempt geyser
I like hera too, honestly I really hated the bow at first until i played with chiron and hera a bit
fallow niche
Bow special is good for Chiron and pretty much none of the other two aspects
You can technically work in a decent bow special with the right boons but its quite awkward
turbid needle
You can get full Thunder Flourish procs against large enemies.
buoyant junco
alright i was worried about darkness grind
but I just got like 2k darkness in one run and I only got chaos once
so it's probably not that bad
now I'm worried about gem grinding 😄
turbid needle
Gem grinding is actually a little rough.
exotic hazel
Gem grind is rough
turbid needle
Some prophecies were recently added for a grand total of either two or three thousand gems, though.
buoyant junco
yeah I'm only missing fish catching and lyre prophecies
so I'm stuck with regular gem grind
exotic hazel
Pick guan yu, the damage on full hp and one dd per room, jump into the run, pick hypnos coin purse or poseidon trinket, max tight deadline to get access to erebus, and spend all your room rerolls to switch off darkness
buoyant junco
the worst thing is - I almost never go for gems in my regular runs
turbid needle
Gems are obols, I find them most useful after Nectar.
exotic hazel
Buy trove trackers as much as possible, always take erebus because it gives you a gem exit almost every time
buoyant junco
good tips thanks
exotic hazel
Once your out if rerolls, let yourself die, then go check broker
Faster runs means more special offers, so more chance for gem sales
Plus, youll almost always get a fish in the first room, so thats even more, faster
buoyant junco
yeah poseidon has that legendary
which is like the weirdest imo
because that's the only legendary for grinding no?
20% better chance to spawn fish also isn't that great imo
tepid ridge
Yea honestly fishing is super useful, with or without Poseidon's legendary. probably nets you like an average of an extra 50 gems a run or something.
opal bay
Stonewhal is 140
buoyant junco
and I still have to do the fishing.. which is... ehm boring to me
opal bay
I think
exotic hazel
I thought it only shows up once, then becomes inherent after you do the fated list?
Also, are the numbers on the wiki accurate for fishing catch rates? Because if so, thats quite frankly absurdly restrictive
tepid ridge
Both are totally optional though? Like even the lyre you can just choose not to have it in a room? Also no, I think Poseidon's legendary only lasts a run.
exotic hazel
Hmm, ive never seen it again
exotic hazel
But yeah, 0.3 second reaction speed for a 5% CHANCE at the rare fish? Thats stupid unfair
buoyant junco
not doing it would irritate me
opal bay
Well here is a fun fact. Fish spot appear every 10 chamber.
Or well in between there least
turbid needle
I believe they turned that down a bit.
weak rivet
for all the unluck i have i was very lucky with chaos fishing spots
turbid needle
Or rather, turned the spawn rate up.
exotic hazel
Just make the fish pure drop chance and remove the reaction speed thing
opal bay
Yeah
weak rivet
i mean only two so far but even that is nice
opal bay
Fish rate spawn is definitely higher now
exotic hazel
Still mad i missed the only chaos fish ive seen
buoyant junco
those numbers are scary
"scary"
also
is there a plan for keys?
they don't do anything beyond shop deals and mirror re-roll, no?
exotic hazel
Pmuch
opal bay
Unlock weapons also, but yeah keys are kind of just there to earn rerolls for the run or use to get another material
buoyant junco
actually
with the chaos fishing
how lucky do you have to be to ever complete that prophecy?
that's so much grind - just catching all the fish in chaos is like... hours of work?
opal bay
Chaos fishing has no prophecy, but they do have lore unlocks
Which are much in lesser need of their catch, considering their rarity.
buoyant junco
but isn't chaos fishing part of the regular fated list challenge?
oh no nvm
it's catch 50, not ALL, right?
buoyant junco
For some reason I remembered it as all types including legendary
fickle hull
Do you folks think adding the +6 ammo to the "uninterupted shot" hammer thing for the rail would be appropriate?
As a buff. I'm using it and don't find it particularly awesome.
buoyant junco
I can't comment on that
But I got the Huge Catch legendary from poseidon again
In the last stage....
fallow niche
Not sure what hammer he's talking about
turbid needle
Concentrated Fire.
fallow niche
Yeah
turbid needle
Concentrated Knuckle ain't bad.
buoyant junco
Just got myself 2k darkness for the final boss 
turbid needle
Now if you could get Spread Fire and Concentrated Fire to gel...
fallow niche
Fists get +5 per hit, way more than +1
So yeah
The only bad Rail hammers I think are Delta Chamber and Concentrated Fire (and maybe Hazard Bomb, haven't tried it since it was buffed)
fallow niche
Pretty high quality stuff otherwise, a breath of fresh air from stuff like the sword
Sword hammers are just... awful
exotic turtle
The backstab damage one is pretty nice imo
turbid needle
Eeehh.
fallow niche
Not really
turbid needle
It doesn't work with Dash attacks.
fallow niche
Its really precarious to land them too
Like, all of them but Double Edge are bad or sub-par
turbid needle
And if you're running an attack build you want Nemesis and Double Edge.
fallow niche
Yeah definitely
The two special ones are fun when combined together but I wouldn't say its anything particularly spectacular for a 2-hammer build
turbid needle
Double and Super Nova?
fallow niche
Yeah
turbid needle
Yeah, that used to be the speedrun build.
turbid needle
Ah, yes.
turbid needle
In the Before Time.
fallow niche
turbid needle
Double Nova at its worst was heartbreaking.
azure lake
what do you seek to speedrun with the railgun ? can't seem to get any build decent with that weapon
fallow niche
I tried it once on KB+M controls...
It was
Impossible
To hit ANYTHING
Like I legit couldn't do it
fallow niche
Took me like several minutes to clear small tartarus rooms
turbid needle
Imma say one thing : Be glad the auto-aim exists for Controller LOL
The one quirk of SGG's engine that I really don't like.
fallow niche
@azure lake Spread fire or rocket hammers are what you want depending on your aspect
Spread fire for Zag rail and rocket hammer for Eris
Both will get you really good times
turbid needle
Happened in Bastion, too.
fallow niche
don't remind me schpoon!
azure lake
spread + artemis crits are nice, but i mean it feels bad in styx and against hades
fallow niche
Not really?
My current PB with Artemis Spread Fire is 5:32
Hades dies in like 40 seconds or something
You want to abuse dash attacks with that build I guess I should specify, you shoot twice with Rail when you dash attack
fallow niche
Artemis attack and her dash too yeah, then you just dash attack everything
Use Family Favorite instead of Priv Status
turbid needle
Only thing that kills bosses faster than whatever the new top speedrun used is Vicious Cycle Hunting Blades.
fallow niche
Merciful End is a bit slower iirc
turbid needle
Really?
fallow niche
Yeah
Fastest possible Hades fight is ~30 seconds I think
Only Artemis Cast last update could do that
azure lake
family's favorite, just get those 2 from artemis and then try to get 1 of each for the +60% dmg right ?
azure lake
6% per olympian right ? iirc
fallow niche
% damage is good since the base is so high
Yeah it is
Zeus call goes very well with the build
You also REALLY want + dashes from Hermes
azure lake
oh yeah ? i find it really garbo tbh, but since you want to keep attacking i guess it's fine
turbid needle
Normally Greatest Reflex is top 3 boon in the game, full stop.
fallow niche
Zeus Call is something you just press once and it deals some real damage when you're shooting things
Accurate Schpoon, its so fun
I love dashes
But with this build its actual DPS increase
turbid needle
Same with Nemesis and any build that uses Dash attacks.
fallow niche
I think only Nemesis, this, and Zag Bow uses dash attacks a lot?
Maybe new fists
I haven't explored that yet
fallow niche
That's true!
azure lake
any way to get hammers more frequently ? since with this build you kinda rely on having spread fire before the end of tartarus right ?
fallow niche
Yeah actually
Uh speedrunners have a different strategy than most players
We reroll doors in Tartarus till we get the hammer and if the hammer doesn't have the one we want we reset (Give Up in pause menu) and then try and cast before the hammer door next time to try and change the ones it offers
Fated Authority is very good for this
This is assuming the run isn't routed of course
You can also die as many times as you want until you start with a hammer
Personally I adapt my builds in my casual runs to be whatever the first hammer dictates, rather than going for something specific
azure lake
i tried to reroll doors, and it felt like if it was gem/key/darkness door it wouldn't be possible to reroll it into hammer or boon door is that right ?
fallow niche
The color of the laurel on the door determines what it can have
fallow niche
Blue laurels only have Darkness, Gems, Keys, and Gold ones can have Boons, Obals, Hammers, story rooms
So if you reroll Darkness you will only get gems and keys etc so never reroll them
Only reroll gold laurel doors
Poms are also gold
azure lake
yeah so you might wanna run with God's chosen right ?
fallow niche
Eh, not really? You get a decent amount of gold laurel doors anyway and the game prefers to offer you one hammer in tartarus anyway
Plus if you reroll 5-6 times on one door it almost always will show a hammer
*if its gold
azure lake
i don't have that much darkness so i only have 2 dice rn, I struggle so much to farm darkness ..
fallow niche
Yeahhh, I'd try and farm Darkness first then
Take all those Chaos gates and develop your own strategies
The rerolls are EXTREMELY powerful when used right
azure lake
any good newbie build you'd recommend in order to clear fast and farm easily ? I got some success with facetank stygian, with the cursed slash hammer upgrade
fallow niche
Chaos shield with ares on the special
Will delete whole rooms and its safe
Lets you easily take all the chests
Probably the single most solid general build in the game
I would go for some kind of privileged status build too
azure lake
chaos aspect or zag one ? Don't you lack damage for boss fight with a build like that ?
turbid needle
Doom is solid single-target DPS.
fallow niche
And you want stuff like Impending Doom
turbid needle
Better group or worked with Merciful End, but just Doom with PS, Impending Doom, and a few poms is fine.
fallow niche
Its just really decently fast, decently safe, decently everything
And the most consistent build I've ever gone tbh
The way Doom works with Chaos aspect is so juicy
Its so sick
fallow niche
Chaos aspect throws out a ton of shields for its special when you charge it up, and each one of them can apply Doom to different enemies
So you just AoE doom proc everything
Exposed from Athena with her dash is the best, but Aphro attack is the next best
For Privileged Status
Really you can run Dionysus too if you want
Getting the Priv Status is the most important
Tactical acquisition of Poms, boons like Impending Doom, and stuff like Zeus call can all increase DPS by wide margins when used right
azure lake
so you just spam buff your curses and then captain america the maps ?
turbid needle
Basically.
fallow niche
Pretty much!
If you have explosive return you don't need to charge the special either outside of bigger rooms
Just spam it next to a wall and go boom boom boom
turbid needle
Imagine if Cap's shield carried the power of Hokuto Shinken.
That's Curse of Pain with Aegis.
azure lake
is chaos aspect really needed then ? I guess for better AoE but on paper it doesn't seem that strong
manic ermine
Still 90 damage for a close range throw
turbid needle
Not strictly, but in general it is better damage than Zag Aspect, and since Zag Aspect only gives a little DR when you've got a Block mechanic, take Chaos.
fallow niche
Yeah its just a better Zag aspect for damage
And damage is what clears rooms faster
azure lake
yeah i guess it's just straight upgrade
fallow niche
Zag aspect is a really good starting weapon for newer players though I will say
The DR is great and I like what it is
Its also a way to ease into 32 heat
turbid needle
Imagine if Zeus started talking to you.
errant narwhal
i do not want to imagine it
fallow niche
bro that would be both hilarious and terrifying
turbid needle
Zoom in on the shield's face, and the lips are just flapping.
turbid needle
Aspect of Zeus's design is inspired by Orphan from FFXIII and only Jen can convince me otherwise.
azure lake
also is there something that i don't get with family's favorite vs privileged status ? It feels like in any random run family's favorite will be better nah ?
turbid needle
There's ways to get a Status Curse from every single Olympian.
All but Artemis's is a good-to-great applier for Privileged Status.
turbid needle
To make Family Favorite consistently as good/better you have to actively push for it.
fallow niche
You only take Family Favorite for very specific builds that can't easily get Priv Status
fallow niche
For an Ares build, Doom is a status curse, so you're already halfway there
So its incredibly good there
errant narwhal
i did a chaos shield run earlier, and its really so surprising and fun when they talk to you. i might have to play more with the shield again now
turbid needle
And yeah, for half the gods you get a Status Curse applied automatically.
azure lake
yeah but since on boss fights you just captn america your way in, idk I haven't played the build but it seems awkward to push in another curse, especially since most of them are so short in time
fallow niche
Chaos is my second favorite character in Hades easily
azure lake
who's your favorite ?
fallow niche
Love his design so much
errant narwhal
i love them
fallow niche
Demeter is my favorite, her voice actress is... chilling 
Legitimately surprised me with such a great performance with the character
And her dialog is incredibly well written
I've only been here for 3 big updates, but The Long Winter is my favorite so far for that reason
turbid needle
So you are from the "Welcome to hell" update too, uh ?
fallow niche
Yeah I joined with Steam release
turbid needle
nice
buoyant junco
same
turbid needle
I joined during MDK, so I think my favorite was Big Bad.
errant narwhal
i think a lot of people joined with W2H
azure lake
do we have the name of the next update btw ?
buoyant junco
i got griftlands on EGS
turbid needle
Not yet.
buoyant junco
but honestly i'm just waiting for it to release on Steam
turbid needle
I still somehow have that Pyre giftable copy from the sale for that update LOL
Update name always comes out right before the update itself does.
Or even with it.
buoyant junco
the EGS client is so laggy and unresponsive sometiems
errant narwhal
the names drop with the updates themselves, yeah
turbid needle
I've had less trouble with EGS and Origin combined than I have with Steam.
errant narwhal
because they usually indicate the content of the update
turbid needle
And the fact that EGS game are DRM-free and can be run without the launcher running has been pretty awesome.
fallow niche
Like I wasn't really excited for the next update, we all knew Demeter was going to be the god, but holy smokes I did not expect her to be like that
turbid needle
No one did.
^
It makes sense, she is goddess of all seasons, not just harvest, but having her entirely tuned towards ice and the wrinkles her presence and dialogue have thrown in the story is just 👌
fallow niche
Like currently the game feels very close to completion and I don't expect much between now and full release, but I still can't help but be a little bit excited because of how much a pleasant surprise Demeter was
errant narwhal
yeah i speculated a little after seeing the surface in the big bad update but i love her omg... demeter is perfect
errant narwhal
one more character, but iirc not a god
fallow niche
Last character is probably || Zag's mom || (story spoilers btw) but idk if they count since they're part of the ending rather than someone added to the gameplay itself. We'll see I guess.
errant narwhal
mhm, and the ending and more content will only be in the game after its out of early access
fallow niche
Yeah
errant narwhal
yeah thats what im guessing as well
errant narwhal
fallow niche
that has a very threatening aura
fallow niche
ngl I need more lines like "What the hell was that??" when you crack a boulder over boss's heads
buoyant junco
RUN UPHILL
kind cloud
artemis with zag aspect of rail and spread fire is so good. didn't realize how good it was if you stacked with buffs to hunter dash.
solid cairn
Am I still a Hades Gen Z if I joined during WTH
What is the cutoff for hades milennial and hades boomer @fallow niche
fallow niche
boomers are on epic release, millenials are WTH, zoomers will be when the game releases
we will all get to complain about them and their fortnite dances at 1.0
back in my day artemis cast was the the absolute bomb
solid cairn
I remember when zagreus spear didn’t give damage
solid cairn
Huh?
fallow niche
Oh, you mean special damage
solid cairn
Doesn’t it give special damage now
fallow niche
Yeah special damage, range, and speed
solid cairn
We need a server event for a Hades trivia Kahoot game
fallow niche
WTH it had just faster return speed
fallow niche
Yeah it was a pitiful amount of damage too iirc
fallow niche
Almost certainly
I just don't remember any off of the top of my head
@turbid needle is a boomer so he'd remember
solid cairn
We should make a Hades trivia Kahoot game and get a bunch of people to play
fallow niche
That would be cool
solid cairn
It would be a mix between gameplay and metagame stuff
And some lore
I can think of a few questions right now
Like “how many coins do you get when collecting gemstones from a room reward with the contractor upgrade”
grand patrol
omg cute....
my dream project is, after 1.0, making a video of only screenshots that longer exist
kind cloud
125, right? And then getting the 2nd contractor upgrade makes it 150, right?
Oh, hang on a sec...you meant for gemstones so 20.
unkempt pagoda
you get like 20
naive laurel
What in u guys' idea is the most inaccurate pact upgrade lvl to heat coorespondence?
earnest ravine
Ranks 3 and 4 of Lasting Consequence, but tbh the recent heat update made the rest feel more in line.
naive laurel
Yep that's what I suggested in feedback, but how about rank 2 forced overtime?
earnest ravine
Iunno, I just got used to playing at that speed so I'm not a good person to judge it. It gives 3, right? That seems fine.
naive laurel
Yeah...I Did have slow days where I get spinned by hades every single time I'm in range
On that forced over time lvl2 ofc
rancid egret
so, how does one unlock music ?
I did the emo musician to sing but no idea on how I did it, and I assume their is a playlist type thing like in the other games somewhere ?
lament coral
@rancid egret some songs you can just buy, others have certain requirements
just keep playing, it'll become apparent eventually
alternatively,
https://supergiantgames.bandcamp.com/album/hades-singles
lament coral
I was initially a big fan of Eris, since it amplified Zeus attack
these days, I find myself using Zag rail more often, largely due to the lack of Infinity hammer
don't like Hestia due to the need to spam reload
proper jolt
Eris is great if you want load's of damage Zag rail is great cause of more ammo
I like Hestia simply because Crit bulid's
i've gotten used to Re loading all the time now
rancid egret
I mean, can you just answer the question ?
proper jolt
You can unlock a Music stand with enough gem's i don't know how to get it to show up in the contractor though
You can unlock more music with Diamond's
it's in the contractor
hopefully it help's!
amber python
tonight ive been working from 4 heat to 8 and this is a pretty good add destroyer
im living tbh
kind cloud
merciful end with leveled up doom can make seemingly any aspect elite. it's why SgG has repeatedly tried to lower ares damage numbers. but ares still has the best legendary in the game with vicious cycle.
stiff flume
ive gotten like 3 legendaries in over 60 hours playtime
unless duo boons count as legendary
kind cloud
duo boons are not legendaries but sometimes duo boons are actually better than legendaries.
proud storm
once you know the prerequisites for legendary you'll see them a lot more often
kind cloud
an example of a duo boon better than a legendary is sea storm (poseidon+zeus) which is better than poseidon's legendary (second wave). sea storm is far superior.
@stiff flume like @proud storm said, there are prereqs needed to trigger the legendaries, sometimes the game will not give you the legendary even if you have all the prereqs but there are certain in-game choices you can make to increase your odds substantially
amber python
stiff flume
another question while we're at the topic of mechanics: if i choose a boon of a god, say zeus
the next boon i find is the zeus one
kind cloud
so for instance, since you did the ares build above...
if you take one of ares slicing shot / blade dash / ares aid and one of either black metal / engulfing vortex, then you have the 2 preereqs for his vicious cycle.
in other words, ares attack and special don't give you the pathway to his legendary but his cast, dash, or call do.
stiff flume
but after that, does it also increase the odds of zeus appearing?
or is it just a 1-time thing
proud storm
id say you tend to see him more often
during the run that is
maybe you might never see him again in this run but usually you see him at least 2-3 more times if you actually look out for him
amber python
huh nice, i have to look back to see what duos or legendary im missin
kind cloud
there's a prophecy thing you'll get once you're far enough in the game. it'll keep track of what duo boons you've gotten and which ones remain.
proud storm
oh yeah you might wanna acquire the fated list from the contractor
kind cloud
you get 8 ambrosia (that's a lot) for getting all the duo boons
proud storm
if you havent done so already
amber python
yeah i have a total of 5 that i havent gotten and i think they are loosely Zeus like? I just never gotten to actually trying to make a build with him
kind cloud
if you want to see a visualization pathway for legendaries, here's an example:
https://hades.gamepedia.com/File:AresBoonTree.png
stiff flume
the aspect of the shield where your special comes like an ares blade thingy + zeus lightning procs is MAD damage
amber python
oh nice
stiff flume
had my fastest run with that
zinc oasis
This thing is so nice, do you have it with other gods ?
stiff flume
also nice flowchart, thats cool
proud storm
the wiki has a chart for every god
kind cloud
@stiff flume are you talking about chaos shield?
proud storm
kind cloud
oh you mean zeus aspect, blitz disc?
proud storm
it's missing poseidon's huge catch but this one has story progress requirements
kind cloud
yeah
stiff flume
ye
kind cloud
we recently learned that's probably the best aspect for using merciful end
and by recent i mean yesterday (lol)
and the flowcharts were made by poster @naive tusk iirc.
amber python
i need to figure out how to get Defiance for Chaos
i think i had the choice before it just never pops up again xd
stiff flume
lol i started a run, picked dyonisus, got 3 boons by him back to back
and now have the legendary
how come i cant post screenshots
need permission?
turbid needle
Image link.
turbid needle
Post it elsewhere in Discord, use an image host (like imgur), or use something like Gyazo.
Zag Fists with Long Knuckle and Lightning Strike is so sweet, oh my god.
stiff flume
@proud storm and @kind cloud thanks again for explaining the prerequesists for legendaries, got 2 in one run now lol
turbid needle
Cursed Take: Poseidon is high tier with Olympian Legacy and God's Chosen because of Exclusive Access. Not top tier, but high.
clear dome
why cursed?
turbid needle
Poseidon is bottom tier normally and I'm meming.
turbid needle
Who's your vote for weakest Olympian?
clear dome
dio
turbid needle
Black Out is the best Legendary boon in the game.
clear dome
never casts so it is useless for me
turbid needle
Your build choice doesn't influence quality.
I never use shield, doesn't stop it from being the easiest weapon to clear.
clear dome
posi legendary is crap but his wall slam boons are really good at clearing rooms
adn wdym by shield
turbid needle
Aegis.
clear dome
its so hard
turbid needle
Rail is better, but it's got a much higher skill floor.
Aspect of Chaos is easy mode.
clear dome
shield, i can only beat heat 1 with zag
turbid needle
This isn't my opinion, by the way.
Again, I don't care much for Aegis's normal design.
I really like Aspect of Zeus, but it's the weakest Aspect. Common opinion is that Aegis is the best non-super-tryhard weapon in the game.
kindred bolt
anyone around know how i can reunite eurodice and orpheus?
and how do i learn the lyre through training and practice?
lament coral
@kindred bolt ||just play the lyre a few times after each run, then see if Orpheus has anything to say. It takes quite a while to complete. Same with reuniting em: just keep talking to em, max out your relationships with both of em.||
kindred bolt
is the lyre the thing in my room?
i just want to make sure before i click it a bazilion times
turbid needle
Does Zag reach out and touch face and a horrible noise comes from the lyre?
kindred bolt
ya i click it and he seems confused why i did it kind of
musical instrument in the room?
turbid needle
Yes.
kindred bolt
ok thanks
lament coral
shred the lute, brother 🤘
kindred bolt
🤘
spring turret
you have to play it like 213 times or something like that iirc.
turbid needle
Okay, here's the plan.
I wanted to do Merciful End.
But Deadly Flourish is kinda fun and I'm about to hit Asphodel where I could put Ares's Keepsake on and go big on Hunting Blades.
spring turret
so you got slicing shot after artemis because i would only take it if i was going hunting blades
lament coral
but you have only 1 cast
clear dome
planning fully loaded?
spring turret
artemis legendary or chaos boons make it broken
turbid needle
I can't get Fully Loaded, I need Exit Wounds.
spring turret
dual shot?
clear dome
w h y
turbid needle
Yeah, I'm hoping Artemis gets a third Cast boon and the prereq is moved to that, I don't like that the nerf doesn't actually effect Artemis Cast builds but does break Dio/Ares/Demeter.
clear dome
wait for june
clear dome
this game feels quite completed tho (gameplay wise), why do they keep adding in more stuffs?
turbid needle
I don't see a problem with more content.
spring turret
yeah its just free things that gives the community more to talk about
azure lake
why ? it's good, you won't have to relearn, it can only be better if they add other ways to play the game, only more fun
twin mural
i'm still confused about what to do to get the musician and muse prophecy fulfilled
i have the admin chamber unlocked but that didn't do much else beyond unlocking a new dialogue with hades i think
lament coral
@twin mural have you maxed out your relationship with both of em? Just keep an eye on Orpheus, it comes up eventually.
twin mural
oh, relationship matters with the both too?
lament coral
I would imagine so
the general strategy when it comes to relationships is that you wanna max out the nectar stage, after which you need to do something, followed by the ambrosia stage
and that second stage usually takes multiple runs to complete, due to dialogues being limited to one at a time
although, sometimes you can get new dialogues in the house by going all the way to the courtyard and back, which also might cause some characters that were not initially present to appear
zinc oasis
Just cleared my 32 heat run. 2 try with Arthur's sword !
buoyant junco
Is it worth maxing relationships with regular gods? Zeus, Arthemis etc.
I only ever gave them 1 nectar for the keepsakes
Congrats Kahssis
zinc oasis
I've maxed all relation. It only add some dialogue
Thx ! 😀
Maybe it will be important for the story with Hades.
But actually it's not
lament coral
@tawdry sail you just go into the game, hit 
, and explain the issue. You don't need to capture in the moment it happened.
tawdry sail
Okay. I'll keep that in mind from now on
azure lake
Btw guys, do you have a cool zeus build for a beginner ? (currently finishing the game with every weapon heat 2 ~ 20h of play time)
stiff flume
just the fists + the lightning proc on attack works fine
azure lake
won't that fall off in elysium and styx ?
azure lake
so just deep zeus build ? with jolted, double strike etc ?
clear dome
yes
actually every deep build is good
but for fists the best are demeter, athena or jesus
azure lake
demeter seems really strong with every build, but you need anyway a second curse for privileged status right ? I mean it's "free" 40% dmg
naive laurel
This is where family favourite comes in
shy hemlock
Q: does the ||Hades|| fight count into the 9 minutes of the Temple of Styx countdown with the Tight Deadline pact?
shy hemlock
okay, thx. The permanent record says I was killed after styx when I die by him, so that's why I thought it may not
yeah, I spent almost 4 minutes looking for the sack, even with 5 mins left I might run out of time
||also why did you spoiler tag the 7 min lvl? :D||
Did it under 7:16
Could have been under 7 if I don't forget my keepsake from Dusa in the dungeons 😅
buoyant junco
No images here?
turbid needle
no images, but embeds work
naive tusk
naive laurel
It appears that athena cast ain't that bad afterall...
https://imgur.com/s5KQMUE
Each hit does something like, 470 dmg before hades
2540 dmg total from 2 cast, w/ all the bonus
unkempt pagoda
spoilers are fine here
round summit
azure lake
@fallow niche wait what ? your time ? holy molly
fallow niche
Oh, wasn't me, my last time was 4:58, that's Vorime. Here's the vod: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/584152921
We're competing for a bounty right now and he's in the lead atm
fallow niche
If you cast before entering another room its going to be different than if you didn't cast, its a way of RNG manipulation
The game doesn't use a normal 'seeded' system like most games, it actually can have dramatically different runs even if you restart the same seed over and over again. This is just how we make it consistent for runners to have an even playing field
fallow niche
Anytime after you pick up the room reward
azure lake
oh it's actually nice
fallow niche
Its not easy to always pull off though, things like voicelines, healing, shades moving around the room, accidentally breaking pots, can complicate things
And some rooms don't reset RNG properly
Takes time to investigate that stuff and then practice
Tho idk if I would have it any other way, makes speedrunning the game a real challenge and super interesting
Definitely one of the more fun and interesting games to speedrun
azure lake
well i guess it's a way of making things work for speedruns. Also thanks for the chaos shield ares secondary recommandation, it has been great
i still find that the rail gun is total garbage if you don't hit spread fire early on but you know..
olive badge
Finally got 10 heat run
It was with Arthur crit
Got the backstab hammer and Patroclus's jerky
Backstabbed final boss for upward 3k
fallow niche
Rail is very good
Hestia is good overall, Eris is great if you can get something like the rocket or cluster bomb, and Zag is specifically good with Spread Fire (not much else)
I think there is like one or two bad rail hammers and thats it? Its just a really solid weapon with a ton of variation in playstyles between the hammers and aspects
Rail/fists/shield are probably the most well balanced between their hammers and aspects imho
The other weapons are either really bad or really good with no in-between depending on what specific aspect / hammer upgrades we're talking about
azure lake
i don't know, it must be because i'm a new player but zag rail feels worthless without spread fire, and god like with it
fallow niche
Its not worthless, but its definitely not very good without it
I considered Zag rail to be a bad aspect before the spread fire change, and after it gets nerfed I expect it to go back to being bad
azure lake
it will be nerfed ?
fallow niche
Definitely. Spread Fire that is.
They have consistently nerfed our speedrunning builds really hard from the start
They may nerf Artemis first, but that won't kill the build. They'll have to come for Spread Fire at some point
olive badge
I think the unintended part is spreadfire having no CD using as a dash attack
fallow niche
Undoing their change to it would be the easiest way to nerf it without really impacting its playability in a negative way
fallow niche
@olive badge That's a feature of the rail thats been here from the start
And old spread fire was that each independent shot did damage
It wasn't 'wave' of 50 damage
olive badge
Oh I see
fallow niche
So it had some pretty fun and crazy synergy with Explosive Shot
So that each bullet from the spread could damage the same enemy
olive badge
Anyway about Hammer
I think you're right
Especially with the sword
I don't think the shockwave from the hammer upgrade scales at all
And flat 25 damage is ehhhh
fallow niche
Sword hammers are almost universally terrible
The 90 damage one is decent, if slow, and Double Edge is good
olive badge
I think backstab and armor damage are great
fallow niche
The rest are either really... mediocre, or just straight bad
Backstab is actually a noob trap
fallow niche
Backstab damage doesn't work on dash attacks and its not consistent to get it all the time without getting yourself in precarious positioning or wasting time
olive badge
I kinda noticed
fallow niche
Some enemies cannot be backstabbed either from my experience
olive badge
Yeah I feel like there's a certain CD too
But it's good against Theseus and final boss
Since you have to hit Theseus in the back
fallow niche
Overall I think its really fine on the mirror but as a hammer its super underwhelming and not very good
Doesn't help that sword is just notorious for having bad hammers
olive badge
And you want to dodge to the back anw
I just think it has some good synergy with crit
fallow niche
Crit doesn't actually multiply damage.
It gives +200% base damage
The backstab is not part of that
fallow niche
Arthur hits like a TRUCK
olive badge
I thought it was everything working together
fallow niche
Love that aspect, I hated it initially but its grown on me
olive badge
Yeah I got that 50% crit damage on weak
And weak bonus damagw
And bonus crit dmg
Really shred things
Artemis just feels stronger than most other build I've tried honestly
fallow niche
Artemis is extremely solid
Her biggest weakness was that you couldn't easily get Privileged Status with builds maining her
But now that's been buffed with the new mirror upgrades lol
Family Favorite is just a buff to her
azure lake
i'd reckon it feels that way because she probably is the better one scaling wise
olive badge
Even her call feels busted sometimes
olive badge
I just shred half of last bost HP with one greater call
Not for crowd I'm sure
But last hitting bosses is amazing
fallow niche
Aphro's is a bit better for that, and it charms so you can spam it to cancel final boss spin attack
And the lasers
fallow niche
Demeter is a very strong call, chill is very real
It also applies a status for Priv
azure lake
@fallow niche ain't hades spear + poseidon really really strong ?
fallow niche
Noooooo
azure lake
yeah Demeter for priv is dumb, 8s is crazy + the utility is insane
fallow niche
Poseidon's best boon is his dash
And its not good on every build, fists hate it
Otherwise you only get him for his Zeus duo
olive badge
The only good poseidon boon is the instant money and bonus money
Ngl
Or Demeter duo
azure lake
i can't find zeus strong for some reason, but I feel like poseidon is fine
fallow niche
Yeah he's not a good primary damage source, lowest damage numbers and pushing enemies away makes it harder to kill them a lot of the time
His %'s are the lowest for no good reason
olive badge
The % are low because dev think it balances out wallslam damage
But then you can't wallslam bosses
fallow niche
Or in asphodel realistically
Even in Elysium with such mobile enemies
And in tartarus things usually die long before wall slams matter much
olive badge
I think they should just rework him to be shooting out a wave that does damage
azure lake
yeah i guess, but is zeus really fine ? I mean i tried to do a rail gun auto build with zeus autos and artemis' support fire, it was crazy good until elysium and then fell off a cliff, same for fist, zeus seemed so weak
fallow niche
Zeus is okay. He has some really fun builds but nothing is spectacular outside of his call
azure lake
yeah it feels that way
fallow niche
His legendary is NUTS on fast attacking weapons
I will say that
And Sea Storm is good
fallow niche
I would say that better Pom scaling on his basic boons would be all he needs realistically
azure lake
is zeus' shield + zeus' secondary + double strike etc even viable ?
fallow niche
People really like that build
Zeus shield is really bad imho but people really enjoy it
And that's whats important
azure lake
the tick rate is good, it seems good on paper but i feel like against hades you have no damage, might be wrong though
azure lake
hunting blades is so dumb lmao
olive badge
I feel like it's so tiring to fight Hydra with the bow
azure lake
well you deal so much more damage than the blade rift with the bolts, your DPS might be ok i guess
haven't tried yet
olive badge
Yeah full build blade rift can get REALLY dumb
Due to a boon where blade rifts deals 1 more damage for every consecutive hit
azure lake
yeah the ares' legendary
olive badge
And you have hunting blades + that artemis boon where you shoot an additional rift
Additional cast actually
azure lake
by the way @fallow niche, you think zeus' shield is bad for speedrun or straight up bad ? It seems decent idk + you can still hit while your special is off
fallow niche
I mean, outside of speedrunning or just trying to go really fast, there is no meta
So technically nothing is 'bad'
Any aspect and hammer and boon combo can win the game
Assuming no heat, of course
When I say Zeus Shield is bad, what I mean to say is that its slow. Real slow. That's the context I mean, I should have specified.
fallow niche
The final blade rift build is really fun
Also, one thing that I find deeply ironic is that, despite being the only aspect with a speed buff, Zagreus sword is the slowest clearing aspect in the game lmao
olive badge
I think it's meant for speed running
But then Achilles Spear exists
Lmao
People gonna opt for the spear in cast build anw
fallow niche
Uh, do you mean running to the other side of the room? Because you can't leave any room till you clear it
olive badge
Yeah
fallow niche
Zag aspect is actually really bad for speedrunning in terms of completing the game, probably the single worst aspect of all weapons
olive badge
So I see people use achilles spear for mobility since your main source of dmg is cast
olive badge
I agree
Kinda spoiler but dev knows it's so bad that they have to make a story event that needs you to max your blade
Zag aspect max
Because they know otherwise you would never raise it
Maybe just change it to attack speed idk?
fallow niche
its the other way around I think
They made it bad because its the first aspect people might max
Due to the quest
I think that's a silly philosophy, but its very common in game design
olive badge
It's really funny because I got the quest very late into the game
I often forgot to gift Skelly boy
fallow niche
Yeah I got it after I already maxed several other aspects a long time ago lol
fallow niche
Guan Yu is just a very solid weapon
olive badge
It's also one of the hammer dependent aspect I think
fallow niche
It had too little health on release but now its very good
olive badge
Can I?