Useless bombs
#h1-builds-and-combat
solid cairn
Boi
Did I not just tell you to try cluster bomb and Artemis special
Regular bomb with Artemis special is good even
stiff flume
what is up with those crits in the video above
👀
1400 at second boss, the hell? how?
solid cairn
Saying you don’t like it is fine. Saying it’s useless is wrong
stiff flume
i dont think ive ever even had anything above 500
solid cairn
It’s not even that hard
turbid needle
I used to get 4k crits with World Splitter.
unkempt pagoda
in response to the above tier lists:
ERIS RAIL IS UGLY
solid cairn
Get the increased backstab damage with Arthur
It is
But the bombs are not useles
They’re good
turbid needle
I had those 4k crits before Shadow Slash was implemented.
snow merlin
Daedalus upgrades don't make the weapon itself better; with the right build, any weapon can be broken.
solid cairn
Bad logic
turbid needle
Eris Exagryph is top 3 Aspect.
solid cairn
And that doesn’t require a hammer
Also you can’t tell me guan yu is bad just because you need one hammer upgrade
That makes like 50% of weapons bad
By that logic
Probably even more than that
stiff flume
isnt guan yu too slow on high heat runs? i havent played much with it myself
turbid needle
Not at all.
solid cairn
If you get quick spin it’s the easiest 32 heat of your life
stiff flume
🤔
stiff flume
would be a lot of healing
stiff flume
i wanna get all upgrades for it first before i try again.. that hp/heal loss is brutal
solid cairn
Because you don’t need healing
Trust me having less heat you need to allocate on other stuff is a life saver
Yeah guan yu needs max upgrade @stiff flume
70% hp loss is brutal
solid cairn
That would break the progression
solid cairn
You would just do 16 heat first boss and get 16 blood
6 times
Now you have all the Titan blood
solid cairn
Even aside from that
stiff flume
it would all be too fast i guess ye
solid cairn
Let me calculate how much Titan blood you need for everything
stiff flume
i got a whole lot of runs in front of me anyway, i just unlocked the thing that needs a whole lot of darkness, and i dont know what itll do in the end
bit scared to even read this discord tbh
dont wanna spoiler myself
solid cairn
146
stiff flume
heh
stiff flume
ye that'd be no fun
solid cairn
Tbh most players probably don’t even care about maxing like half of the aspects
solid cairn
Unless you want to be a completionist
stiff flume
im just farming everything atm anyway, need it all for progression
even gems again now
solid cairn
Diamonds or gemstones?
stiff flume
but i'd really like to try 32 heat again...
both
dont have all the decos yet
and unlocked something i need diamonds for
and now i need darkness again too, lots of it
i always dodged those rewards
now i regret it
im so surprised by how much content there is in this game, especially the voicelines
like 60 hours in and theres still constantly new stuff every playthrough
solid cairn
And it’s still in early access
stiff flume
ye
solid cairn
I think I’ve seen roguelikes that have been around for years with less content
stiff flume
next update was in summer right?
solid cairn
June yeah
stiff flume
sweet
solid cairn
Did you start playing during welcome to hell update
stiff flume
nope, during this update, only got the game quite recently but have been playing a lot
cant work cuz of corona lol
stiff flume
lol
solid cairn
Hades Gen Z starts at either long winter or WTH
stiff flume
where the boomers at
solid cairn
Idk the order of updates
naive laurel
U mean, booner?
solid cairn
It takes less than the third aspects
stiff flume
i upgraded that first cuz it sounded so good...
solid cairn
Did you know guan yu was worse on day 1 of long winter
It was like 80% at level 1 and 60% at level 5
Yeah it was pretty bad
stiff flume
heh
naive laurel
Jez
solid cairn
Also for one day they changed zagreus spear
Anyone want to guess what they changed it to
naive laurel
Spear spin attack is always my pet peeve on the weapon
unkempt pagoda
zag spear the sequel
solid cairn
Zag spear has had 3 different effects
stiff flume
standing still for so long is just hell on higher heat runs
solid cairn
I think it’s the only weapon they’ve straight up changed
Ok try to guess what zag spear did on day 1 of long winter
naive laurel
It's literally "can't take dmg" mode on guanyu unless u get the faster spin atk upgrade from Hammer
solid cairn
+10 flat damage on attack and dash attack
Want to know what it did before that
It gave like 240% special speed and range
Didn’t give damage
solid cairn
Yeah I like how it is now
solid cairn
It’s probably the best it’s ever been now
stiff flume
except for bow without decent boons
solid cairn
I love zag spear
stiff flume
bad bow runs become a drag
solid cairn
It grew on me
Day 1 long winter was such a disaster I had to quit for 3 days because I just did not like the way the game was going
But they fixed it
stiff flume
i think im just bad with builds in general tho, i mean i beat 100% of my runs with all weapons now on ~6 heat, going up and up, but all i do is take zeus on the fast hitting ones and doom effect on the slower hitting ones
🤷♂️
solid cairn
Try Artemis attack on slower hitting ones
Doom is situational
What are your favorite weapons right now
stiff flume
i dont like artemis much, sometimes she just gives a bunch of defensive stuff
the shield and the gun
i used to hate the gun
solid cairn
You mean Aphrodite?
solid cairn
Artemis has like no defensive stuff
solid cairn
Artemis gives crits
stiff flume
ye
solid cairn
Eris rail with Zeus attack is spicy
So good choice there
If you want to try something fun
Go Artemis attack and aim for the spread shot hammer
It’s better on zagreus rail but it works fine on eris
solid cairn
Yeah but you always get 2 per run
So better to keep the epic chance
You’ll usually get one in Tartarus
Want me to show you the world record speedrun that uses zag rail and spread shot?
stiff flume
no, ty. i havent seen what additional stuff hades gets at the end
dont wanna spoil it
artemis attack boon.... common rarity
😒
goddamnit
solid cairn
Trust me it doesn’t matter
turbid needle
Hey, sometimes you just want it for the crit chance.
solid cairn
You’ll shred either way
Yeah the crit is what you want
Another reason why Artemis is so good
I thought of the best meme
It’s heavy from tf2 with zag’s face photoshopped over his and Zag rail instead of his minigun with zag saying “it costs 15,000 obols to fire this weapon, for 12 seconds”
stiff flume
im at meg and have had 2 rooms so far that werent gems/darkness etc
this run might end my streak
what should i aim for after i got the attack crit? besides the hammer
gotta choose next keepsake
opal bay
@stiff flume probably go for the Aphrodite's keepsake
crit+weak= possible heart rend which is also just free dmg when you get that duo
jagged wolf
thats quicker than the time I spend in Chaos' realm huh
stiff flume
@solid cairn had a pretty meh run
7 heat
21 min
i had the crit and the 3-round burst but didnt really do much damage
solid cairn
That's not spread shot
solid cairn
Trust me spread shot is ridic and you'll know when you see it
Was cluster bomb a choice
stiff flume
ye but i hate that one
i took the one where you can fire 3 specials in a row
that ones always nice imo
huge damage
solid cairn
I love cluster bomb
stiff flume
had crit for it, too
solid cairn
It’s hard to land 3 or more shots on on enemy but if you do, they’re gonna die
No
It’s a spread of 5
stiff flume
ohh ye i remember
solid cairn
The closer to you you’re aiming, the more concentrated the shots are
stiff flume
ye
solid cairn
I usually shoot it close to me and then run away
What makes it really broken is that
If you get the hammer with the slow down to enemies in radius
Then they can’t even escape
And it’s insane
Rail legit has so much potential for broken builds
The chances of you finding spread shot or cluster bomb in a run is surprisingly high
And if not, you can just go Zeus attack
stiff flume
ill try it again next time when i get the darkness bonus on it
solid cairn
And ride with that
stiff flume
ye zeus seems good on many things
solid cairn
I don’t even care about darkness bonus anymore
stiff flume
i thought the lightning procs would be better than crit chance if it hits that rapidly
🤔
if you get the hammer special on top its like 10 shots
solid cairn
You want burst damage on Chiron
stiff flume
w-well the lightning also adds damage
solid cairn
I’ve never heard of lightning on Chiron special
stiff flume
why is it good on fists then 🤔
solid cairn
Because bow special has a cooldown
unkempt pagoda
sgg was ahead of you
solid cairn
Fists is constant attack
unkempt pagoda
zeus special was specifically patched to not be quite as good on bow special
stiff flume
hmpf
unkempt pagoda
chiron special
unkempt pagoda
it dominated the meta when it first came out
stiff flume
well i got sword bonus next, any spicy builds by the arthur gang? 
just crit stuff?
unkempt pagoda
rip charged special chiron 😔
solid cairn
Arthur gets 3k crits casually
If there was a weapon to get the highest damage in a single hit, it would be the third hit of Excalibur
unkempt pagoda
artemis is great on excal, but i also like athena on attack
solid cairn
Cursed slash is kinda nice on excal
unkempt pagoda
it’s very fun to deflect the slowed projectiles
solid cairn
If Poseidon gave more % damage I would consider using it also
Real talk poseidon should have like the third most damage for his attack and special boons
Not the second least
stiff flume
is there any use in giving nectar to bouldy btw
other than the buff you get for the run
solid cairn
no
solid cairn
he progressed his way into my heart already
stiff flume
😂
solid cairn
solid cairn
with what build
stiff flume
arthur
lost all 4 lives in last stage
satyr tunnels feel so bad with this thing
lost the last to hades
solid cairn
happens sometimes
buoyant junco
I've had like 10 attempts at 32 heat and haven't once made it through elysium
kind cloud
Is the timer killing you?
kind cloud
When I do 32 heat, I don't ever use the timer
It makes the game so much less of a stress exercise
buoyant junco
Yeah I'm thinking about that but there's not much else I want to pick up
fallow niche
Time is free heat, I always use it, never use nonsense like more enemy HP or Jury Summons though, that will make it take sooo long
buoyant junco
it's 5 heat
fallow niche
5 is a lot, real good
kind cloud
"timer is free heat" lol, i can't beat the game on 0 heat faster than 21 minutes.
So...uh...I'm out of options.
kind cloud
elysium is the bottleneck for me.
fallow niche
Oof, well practice will eventually get you there
And yeah Elysium is slowwww
You need a good build by then or you're kinda out of luck
buoyant junco
anyone feel like some of the enemies in Elysium can go through your shield block?
fallow niche
Using Fated Authority to sculpt a good build helps a ton
And they can hit you from your sides or back yeah
buoyant junco
yeah that's one thing I'm on the fence baout
I use routine inspection
-9 bottom perks
and I'm not sure about that one
with the keepsakes and yarn I still get a fair amount of epics
kind cloud
@buoyant junco I've encountered only 2 attacks that can go through the shield block: 1) hades thrust 2) exalted spear thrusts from dudes in elysium.
otherwise, shield has blocked everything else for me.
/shield is my favorite weapon in the game.
//it used to be the sword
fallow niche
Rarity of boons don't matter a whole lot and I never waste my gold on Yarn
Its the combinations of boons, your duos/legendary boon(s), and overall synergy of your build that matters the most
Between your aspect and its boons
kind cloud
yep
the synergy of the weapon aspect + boons should add up to strong dps
one way to tell how good your build is by seeing how quickly you're clearing rooms in styx
buoyant junco
@kind cloud Yeah the shield dudes were giving me most trouble where I was kind of questioning if it went through or not
also
Bull swing if you have the difficult boss battle perk from pact of punishment
kind cloud
i've never been hit by the bull swing with shield but i do tend to have athena deflect on dash so that probably negates some/many of those attacks
kind cloud
oh, your mean when asterius does the spin that covers like half the room?
in that case, yeah...I just dash away and maintain distance.
buoyant junco
hmm
the revenge duo boon that makes revenge attacks repeat like every N seconds
it's a duo for Zeus + Ares I think
but does it work on revenge effects from all heroes? Athena etc.
and is it any good? 😄
kind cloud
i don't think so, that duo revenge boon applies to only zeus and ares imo but that's a good question
upon reflection, i've never had more than 2 revenge boons at a time (usually zeus and ares) so i can't be 100% sure.
buoyant junco
I don't see how you could make a viable build out of that either way
kind cloud
haelian did it
buoyant junco
you're basically shooting yourself in the foot each time you take a revenge thing over something that increases your damage
kind cloud
kind cloud
maybe there's some uber talented crazy gamer that can make it happen (Taiwanese guy?) but yeah, I can't see even some of the most experienced gamers pulling off a revenge build on 32 heat.
go to 32:10 if you want to see what haelian's build does to voidstones, it's funny to watch.
kind cloud
yes, for sure
and anything that increases damage of enemies (like hades spin attack) with pact of punishment will make it more and more unfeasbile as you go from 20 to 40 to 60 to 80 to 100.
kind cloud
after messing around on zeus shield, i think one of the best ways to use it is have:
athena special on shield with ares doom on attack combined with duo boon merciful end. oh my. combined that with aphrodite or dio dash and privileged status (or family favorite) and you'll be rocking entire hoards of enemies.
if you can also get ares and aphordite duo, then lol. OP as fook. LEGGGOOOOKKKKEEESSSSSS.
buoyant junco
In my experience fated authority can change between resources (tears, gems, keys), between gods, between coins / poms
Is there any chance that a resource door gets changed to a god door?
I feel like I've had that happen maybe once but I'm not sure.. right now it seems like it's impossible and maybe I'm misremembering
wispy flare
Which is better: God's Chosen or God's Pride?
unkempt pagoda
@buoyant junco nope! you can't change between blue laurels (permanent resources) and gold laurels (run resources). there's also a room guide in the pins that explains it as well
chosen is better for builds that depend on fewer boons, pride is good if you like to grab as much as possible
wispy flare
Makes sense. Thanks
unkempt pagoda
👍
tall yarrow
rocket bomb + cluster bomb + heartbreak florish lv. 8... I was shooting final boss for 20% of his life at point blank 😄
naive laurel
Is it crazy to start w/ poseidon keepsake and go for a early exclusive access or sweet nectar run above heat 15?
tall yarrow
I mean if you don't get it you'll still end up with other boons so I don't see the problem
naive laurel
Even persuasion is 4 max
naive laurel
Neither do I, but I think I can reach 4 in 2-3 days
That max info is from some other sources
Since I'm starting to lose my win streak on 13-16 heat, I get to get a lot of darkness
solid cairn
Persuasion sucks
So many drawbacks
Boon rarity doesn’t matter much
Authority helps you get damage from both privileged status and family favorite
solid cairn
New record?
turbid needle
Terrifying.
fallow niche
Sub-5 is possible
solid cairn
Zag rail right
fallow niche
yeah
Eris theoretically does more damage but it doesn't work out in favor of the build in normal rooms where everything just dies and you want to save reloading time
Not to mention the special drops so slowly
turbid needle
You'd want Rockets in Elysium.
solid cairn
I’m rooting for eris rail
turbid needle
I see Haelian reload a lot before he fires 12 shots.
fallow niche
You don't want rockets
That build is only good with both rocket + cluster
And this build already starts with a hammer that's neither
turbid needle
Rockets let you proc Eris a lot more aggressively.
fallow niche
Yeah they do
That's the build that lets you take advantage of Eris the most, not necessarily the best build overall @turbid needle
@solid cairn The leaderboard displays the weapon next to the time
So you can see the fastest times for each weapon
Idk if anyone did spear this patch
solid cairn
Yeah but some of them don’t have runs
fallow niche
I will be later though
solid cairn
Is zag spear the fastest spear
manic ermine
Guan yu with charged throw I think is fastest
fallow niche
You don't need charged is the thing
solid cairn
Wonder if I should try running
fallow niche
You should!
solid cairn
How do you get seeds
solid cairn
Oh
fallow niche
We have the last one for this build in the main speedrunning discord and Haelian's discord
solid cairn
I’ve never speedran before
fallow niche
At the start of each patch/update we just go fast
Not much manips till way later
Though Vorime just started any% and now he has the WR
By a wiiiide margin
solid cairn
So I just like learn by watching
fallow niche
Most of us just watch each other's streams yeah 
solid cairn
Know what the guan yu record was when long winter ended
fallow niche
Uh let me check actually, I believe Haelian had it
fallow niche
Haelian never submitted it, but iirc it was 9 minutes
last update
He runs it every now and then this update too, its a really fun weapon
9:53 I think
solid cairn
I have more experience with spin to win
fallow niche
The spin build is mostly impressive on 32 heat iirc
Though since nobody has any spear on the board atm you can take it for yourself with any time haha
solid cairn
I can’t beat 32 heat normally haha
solid cairn
Been trying other weapons after beating 16 heat with Gy
Fists are super fast weapons right
turbid needle
Can be.
fallow niche
Fists attack fast, they aren't necessarily very fast
They're well balanced so its hard to do exceptionally good or bad
solid cairn
I used to think fists were Garbo earlier this update
fallow niche
I thought they were really decent from the start, got decent times with them fairly consistently
solid cairn
Now Demeter fists are my 4th favorite aspect in the game
fallow niche
Ooh nice
solid cairn
If you get long knuckle it’s like a cross between sword and rail
No idea why they thought that hammer upgrade was balanced in the slightest
turbid needle
?
solid cairn
Seems pretty broken to me
turbid needle
Long Knuckle?
solid cairn
Well not broken
kind cloud
LOL @ the 5:27 run. cotdamn. f me.
turbid needle
Chaos.
solid cairn
Chaos shield?
turbid needle
Chaos was outdone by Poseidon was outdone by Zag Rail.
solid cairn
But the slowest weapon?
turbid needle
Of weapon that are commonly used to speedrun?
solid cairn
No just in general
turbid needle
Oh, no, spear or bow are slower.
manic ermine
Flurry shot bow can be fast if you abuse animation cancelling, not sure if thats prevalent yet
solid cairn
I wonder how much better a hades TAS would do than the current world record
May be worth looking into
manic ermine
I dont think the ai is predictable enough
fallow niche
Bow is slowest weapon
That or Zag aspect sword
Also Long Knuckle isn't broken, its perfectly balanced imo
Like most things for the fists
idk why they nerfed that one hammer too, it seemed fine
fallow niche
dense locust
To chime in on a convo earlier, what I find so great about the fists is that once you break the enemies armor, your hits permastun them as long as you are continuously hitting them. Throw athena fists on them and now you'll also deflect attacks from other enemies if you position yourself correctly while you pummel them to death.
lament coral
they nerfed the kick hammer by 10 damage and made it a bit slower
not that it matters, it's Dem fist special that's broken
dense locust
The kick hammer didn't help
although I actually don't find dem aspect too broken because it leaves you open during the hits
I find explosive upper a lot stronger than the kick for it too
although the kick is like another dash
unkempt pagoda
got explosive upper and poseidon on maxed demeter fists, bosses were actually knocked back
sullen valley
Talk about a tidal wave
dense locust
Last time i had poseidon special and demeter aspect, it was terrible because the first hit of the special would knock them away and the rest would miss
unless of course they were against a wall
unkempt pagoda
on my run they all hit
unkempt pagoda
bosses have a resistance to knockback anyway so it’s a definite boss killer
dense locust
that's true i had no problem there
Hmm i wonder if athena special and explosive upper just makes you invincible
while you are using the charged special
sullen valley
Having Poseidon Attack boons feels weird to me...
Splash damage knocks everyone back, usually making you chase everything around
It’s also pretty weak considering it’s something with knockback...
dense locust
I'm not a big fan of it so much but it can work on rail or fists
sullen valley
Compared to Demeter and Aphrodite at least
dense locust
i use to like it a lot on dash
fallow niche
Poseidon's attack is really bad unless you get Sea Storm
dense locust
because it adds so much damage and also lets you smash
sullen valley
Eh...Rail is like my sword. You wanna keep a distance, but also keep close because of its short range
So uh, you can’t get that Concentrated Fire damage too often if you’re always knocking your foes away
Unless you’re dealing with a horde
dense locust
I really haven't tried concentrated fire much, I think I wanna go try that right now
lament coral
rail is no where near as bad as the sword
dense locust
Hey who said anything about bad
lament coral
you actually have range, and you can transition into a special spammer
dense locust
But I also think the rail is top tier so yes I agree
and I think sword might be my worst weapon
sullen valley
The reason why I get Concentrated Fire depending on what I have is because of this one thing:
It gives +5 base damage per uninterrupted hit.
dense locust
it's +1
solid cairn
My fellow guan yu brothers in arms I must confess something
sullen valley
Oh, well,
If you had Aphrodite or Demeter, this % would affect concentrated fire.
It can also pair well with the hammer that increases your rate of Fire
solid cairn
I know I may call myself a member of the prestigious Guan Yu Gang
But...
I have never done a true special build
lament coral
fist's hammer gives +5 per hit
sullen valley
Blood and Darkness yeah that’s what confused me
dense locust
Yeah I think it has potential to melt, I've just never tried to get a build around it
solid cairn
No fists give +1 I think
lament coral
Your Attack deals +5 damage for each uninterrupted hit to a foe.
dense locust
Charged Skewer, +30% to special speed, Artemis special, chaos boons for more damage, heart rend
solid cairn
I know
dense locust
You're tossing out aoe spears like a machine gun that crit for 2k
solid cairn
That saved run has Artemis special
sullen valley
Y e e s h
solid cairn
Well I have done a special build
Just not with meta stuff
I don’t think I even used Artemis special lol
dense locust
well to be fair, it's hard to get a seed that'll give it all to you
solid cairn
Tbh just Artemis special, heart rend, and special speed is good enough
dense locust
I've found it kinda difficult to keep weak up on enemies though
solid cairn
Cast
dense locust
so trie and get aphro attack and the boon that adds time that enemies stay weak
or cast
solid cairn
Oh yeah aphro attack
dense locust
but the range on cast is a little short
solid cairn
True that
sullen valley
I’d rather get Aphrodite Attack since crush shot is low range while your spear is significantly longer
solid cairn
Nah
dense locust
And then also get athena dash so you can get deadly reversal
solid cairn
You underestimate crits
dense locust
And the other hammer that does 400% to armor
solid cairn
What is deadly reversal again?
sullen valley
I said Aphrodite attack not special
solid cairn
Oh deflected attacks can crit
sullen valley
You reflect you get more crit Chance
dense locust
Yeah you get an extra 20%
solid cairn
You guys have sold me
dense locust
In fact you might be able to get greedy
solid cairn
First thing tomorrow
dense locust
and do aphro special if you can get deadly reversal
sullen valley
Pft
dense locust
that way your skewers have much higher base damage and apply weak
solid cairn
I will do my favorite Chinese glaive justice!!
dense locust
taking care of heart rend and adding like another 120% to the special damage
sullen valley
gun
small nimbus
dense locust
Speed runs are done at 14 heat total due to the ideal heats yeah?
manic ermine
You want tight deadline to cancel survival rooms and forced overtime for faster spawns
dense locust
It's honestly weird that forced overtime leads to faster spawns
Oh I was thinking of the old meta where you also wanted 2 points in extreme measures in order to bring the hydra close so you could skip his second phase with meg companion
But they fixed that recently right?
torpid turret
Yes but you still take 2 in extreme measures
Because Hydra/Heads are closer together
unkempt pagoda
i mean, it just gives you more things to avoid
it doesn't change much fundamentally than em hydra or A&T
fallow niche
@dense locust Yeah
We get the +40% movement speed for enemies. the timer to remove those weird rooms Hades can make, and Extreme Measures 2 for the closer Hydra heads
and no it doesn't make first boss slower
It just increases the boss's DPS, not their EHP
dusk moss
Is Talos bonus multiplicative?
kind cloud
After messing around with zeus aspect of shield for a few more hours, i'm even more convinced than ever that merciful end is the optimal boon for it. athena on special with ares on attack, get merciful end, brilliant riposte, and you're set. aphrodite on dash with curse of longing duo boon with ares is just overkill.
and if you can get any kind of buff from chaos for special or attack (but preferably shield) then just lol.
dense locust
Ah gotcha. Do you guys find your own seeds or download near ideal seeds and try perfect them?
marble ridge
so... is the update still in June?
marble ridge
cool
kind cloud
um, lol wat
turbid needle
5 Chaos Attack boons. 6 dashes.
fallow niche
kind cloud
how are you seeing chaos 5 times?
turbid needle
fallow niche
Persuasion is the single best tool we've ever gotten
fallow niche
Its so not good for normal runs but so good for us
turbid needle
Man, isn't that weird.
fallow niche
Like, it lets us manipulate RNG like mad
turbid needle
Yeah, I guess, you just want Chaos after you get Deadly Strike and Spread Fire.
fallow niche
pretty much, it also lets us skip combat rooms
We take 2 combat rooms in Aphodel and 3 in Elysium and that's it for those biomes
kind cloud
i feel like i've seen persuasion referenced before but i can't remember in what context. help me out. what is that again?
turbid needle
Just burn out the Curses in Styx minichamber, huh?
How often did you have to turn down an Epic Maimed Lunge?
fallow niche
..... Many.
Also, that wasn't my run, mine was 5:32, Vorime just pulled that pic off on stream
But it is my route
turbid needle
They've been posting for just a few weeks, you said?
fallow niche
Everything up till T&M was mapped out
unkempt pagoda
sub 4 mins when
dusk moss
Is this weird? ..er can't post pic, but one of my Chaos boons is listed in the victory screen as "Chaos Blessing Lv.2"
kind cloud
yeah, that goofiness happens sometimes
sly sonnet
I dont know if its allowed but I have seen people do it
you can send screenshot in another server
than copy the discord link here
Maybe eurdiyce buffed chaos boon ? That would be interesting
kind cloud
yeah, someone posted (either last week or 2 weeks ago) about chaos boon being hit by eurydice's ambrosia but in this player's case the chaos boon didn't have increased stats so the level up was nominal/cosmetic.
kind cloud
i think community opinion is it was a bug since the stats of chaos boon didn't increase despite level 2 designation.
sly sonnet
yeah then bug
unkempt pagoda
might be because you got two chaos boons of the same curse and blessing
so they had the same name
unkempt pagoda
@clear dome three different opinions on guan yu's best traits were just tossed as advice lmao, but that shows how good the game is tbh
clear dome
true
unkempt pagoda
while i do think the spin is the most important part, i can't deny the absolute power of the charged special
it's a lot more fun than regular spear special imo
errant narwhal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520688402958516254/690231272043184152/1145360_20200319175203_1.png
thats the build i won with
opal bay
charged special is honestly just a better bow charged shot.
errant narwhal
in my experience a powerful special is definitely what makes it possible to win with guan yu, but maybe its because im not that good at dodging LOL
clear dome
w h a t
errant narwhal
no swearing!
errant narwhal
oh omg LOL it was a typo
opal bay
oh yeah it doesn't. that's why I prefer the charged special of spear. It means if I won't do well the timing it won't be worse. 
guan yu though honestly is hard to master
errant narwhal
i was pretty hyped about getting that far with that run bc i did not expect it, and it helped me fulfill a prophecy.... but all my arthur runs since died in asphodel
opal bay
unless every enemy has a speed of 40% then you need to rely on special mostly until you get faster speen
lament coral
GY's special is just as good as its spin
it's basically a built-in boom spear, with worse damage
stiff flume
you kinda need the upgrades
with guan yu
-70 health and healing is too brutal
im thinking abnout spending my 15 blood upgrading it atm, not sure yet
sly sonnet
I was thinking of trying a full tank run
With excalibur
sword of arthur
its excalibur to me ok?
stiff flume
arthur feels great to me until i reach last zone
satyr tunnels are so brutal with it
simple shard
i find guanyu with aphrodite's [health pickups are better] and/or demeter's [healing is better] boon is a huge help for it, and generally tricket up to seed them in the run, and just pray for faster charge on top
arthur with atkspeed and crit attack is SICK
stiff flume
all the time, basically cant stand still with higher heat runs
tho i hear that some people have success with arthur
sullen valley
Hum.
stiff flume
so i misut be doing something wrong
sullen valley
You just keep getting hit in the Satyr Tunnels or?
stiff flume
ye, getting poisoned and stuff
maybe i shouldnt use normal attack at all in there
only weapon i have problems with
sullen valley
Oof
sullen valley
Yeah the Dash Attack is your saving grace with Arthur
You can get hit by a Thug when winding up your 200 damage slash, so uh
stiff flume
someone in here said that he thinks 40 heat run is possible with arthur, i cant even imagine it
stiff flume
just seems weird to me because its so slow overall, and the tank stuff is nice but i'd rather still not get hit
tho i havent even cracked 32 yet
😔
sullen valley
It seems like it's a weapon focused on Damage Reduction more than dodging.
Extra Health, Aura...
stiff flume
ye but you have to ramp up the damage so much if you wanna get to high heat
does all the tanking help against that much dmg?
seems like you'd stil drop
sullen valley
It is weird, even if you aren't too fond of the Nova Smash because it is the only Special attack that you can cancel
stiff flume
mhh ill try it again in the future
stiff flume
i think the bow is becominmg my least favorite weapon
im still climbing with heat
but the runs just feel bad
ive tried zeus build, ive tried crit build
nothing feels like it does any damage
guess its compensation for being long ranged
clear dome
bow or chiron bow?
stiff flume
chiron
fully upgraded too, still feels bad
maybe i should try to get the demeter chill explosion boon
clear dome
idk, using zag bow feels good to me
stiff flume
mhhh
lament coral
@stiff flume try Ares Chiron
sullen valley
I’m assuming they mean, like, combine the Boon that extends the Doom Timer, and the one where you build up damage on enemies with Doom (Dire Misfortune and Impending Doom).
I was thinking more like Demeter (so you can get those easy Frostsplosion stacks) or Aphrodite (to possibly pair it with Unhealthy Fixation)
Seriously, Full Levelled Chiron, Relentless Volley, Aphrodite Attack and Special,
I got to Hades and told him “Sit down, let the big boys play”
He was not allowed to attack.
@stiff flume
lament coral
@stiff flume ideally, get Athena attack and Merciful End
but Doom can work on its own, like Nautor said
sullen valley
^-^
lament coral
also, turns out Poseidon attack is god awful on Guan Yu
since it keeps pushing enemies away, preventing the spin from hitting em
clear dome
you only know it now?
sullen valley
snrk
lament coral
Poseidon, what a P O S
also, shoutout to Athena for not giving me an attack after picking 3 of her boons
clear dome
shes the one with wisdom
sullen valley
Pfheh, could be useful with Guan Yu.
...sounds really useful if you think about it
lament coral
I also got neither spin hammer nor special charge
sullen valley
Now that's owch,.
lament coral
had to take triple dash attack so that I could at least kill enemies
still died in Elysium
clear dome
n e a t
lament coral
after losing all DDs in Asphodel
sullen valley
oof
naive laurel
@lament coral
"also, shoutout to Athena for not giving me an attack after picking 3 of her boons"
This is where persuation comes in
Us less skilled players uses this to get athena dash almost every time
untold blaze
I mean, if you're going to lose all your DD you want it to be before Elysium since you have a chance to refill all of them instantly.
lament coral
FP is also luck based
it could reroll a single boon and still not give you what you want
it also costs an insane amount of darkness, and you can have only 5 of em tops, compared to 10 of Authority
naive laurel
Yes but more likely to get the lvl 1 ones on reroll when u don't have one
It's really good in matter of getting the epic lvl 1 where u want it
lament coral
but then if you see Poseidon in the door, you won't be able to reroll him
lament coral
hm, I'll give it a try next time
lament coral
been experimenting anyway, running Fam Fav
it's actually not as bad as I thought
though, I still wish Chaos counted for it
naive laurel
Oh nice, u'll love persuation w/ It
But...keepsakes are very important in this kinda set up
lament coral
I've been focusing on forcing as many gods as I could with Fam Fav
naive laurel
U might even take a god keepsake to hades just for a boon from them
lament coral
a new god every biome
ye, been doing exactly that
though sometimes it's tough, having to take a god over money bag
it stings
naive laurel
Imo 4-5 different gods excluding Hermes is enough, Since the chance of getting a stable build goes down
lament coral
6 is the most I've gotten so far, with Hermes
naive laurel
If I get 3 gods I usually just go moneybag in asphodel
clear dome
money bag is best for styx tho
naive laurel
Oh 6% is good when from 100%, but from 136% 
clear dome
its easier to focus the build in asphdel
naive laurel
Oh in styx I usually focus on more health than money 2bh
lament coral
not needing to fish for statuses really changes the dynamic of the game
naive laurel
Tooth, collar, hourglass
Yep, I go for artemis almoat every game cuz of that
Her status Effect is hard to get on bosses but also Her boons does most composite dmg boost
Oh btw, fishing dd from charon well might be the best lategame usage for persuation
lament coral
considering the cost goes up each time you use it, eh
if it stayed at 1, it would've been great
naive laurel
I'm Not a big fan of that either, but 2bh refreshing It 3-4 times might be a bit too powerful
naive laurel
Yeah true, but the chance is...Pretty high 2bh
lament coral
plus, consider that new items will be added in the next patch, further diluting the pool
naive laurel
Oh that, I guess they can indeed buff It in the next patch imo
Rn....maybe we can hold, or they can rush
lament coral
I don't see em adding anything in the interim
rancid egret
so friends, what do you say is the easiest weapon to use, outside of the shield ?
clear dome
gun
weak rivet
🔫
sullen valley
Sword.
It's the default weapon and central to the play style the game initially wants you to go with.
clear dome
its certainly not easy
sullen valley
It's the easiest to learn, though.
With the Gun and Bow, you're standing still and vulnerable, even for a little amount of time, whenever you are committing to an attack.
The Spear and Shield both have a throwing attack that also leaves you vulnerable and forces you to pause momentarily. You aren't as vulnerable as you are with the ranged weaponry completely making you stationary, and again, these moments of sitting are minute, but still...
The fists lack in range, at least visibly. You are encouraged to remain close to your foes, dashing around for your best evasion or remaining still for that infinite hitstun. You are almost immobile during your jabbing combo unless you dash.
The sword is most complimentary to the traditional game fighting style. It is the most "balanced" weapon in terms of reach and vulnerability compared to the other Infernal Arms. Although the style of constantly weaving and slashing through your foes can be performed with other weapons, such as the Gun or the Shield, you're given movesets that change the fundamentals. You can knock your opponents away while rushing forward with the Shield's Bull Rush, and you will have to reload often with the Gun. Both aspects can take time to getting used to, though this isn't to say you will eventually learn.
Even the fists, the simplest weapons, have just a bit more complexity than the sword. Every weapon has a Dash Attack, but the Fists have a Dash-Special that you may neglect to use, if an opportunity of effectiveness is possible. It isn't much of a difference, but just barely because of this, I'd say that the sword is the easiest to learn and use in Hades.
hard dove
It seems to me so far that the bow is the easiest to use
sullen valley
It might be, but the Special for the bow took a bit for me to learn how to use it effectively.
hard dove
I've found that you don't really need to use it though?
Unless you have modifiers for it
clear dome
actually, to an experienced player of similar games, the gun is the easiest
clear dome
because most similar games use guns
hard dove
I haven't unlocked the gun yet. I'm still pretty early into the game
sullen valley
Snrk, I guess?
hard dove
Only 11 runs haha
sullen valley
Oh, oof.
Hm, still. Hades won't shy from surrounding you with enemies.
Attempting to survive amidst a Hades Trial with Coronacht in Tartarus sounds easy enough, relatively. But things certainly get harder the higher you go if you can't kill things quickly.
clear dome
gun is bad in that situation
sullen valley
Yeah, comparing the ranged weapons and the others, you're standing still less, and harder to hit because of that.
The gun has a good dash attack, but unless you have Piercing Shots, you can only hit one enemy at a time.
The bow is excellent at attacking everyone at once because it pierces enemies naturally, but it also is the slowest weapon by default.
All of the weapons in this game have their strengths and weaknesses...I just think the sword is the most balanced in this regard. Maybe it has less strengths than the others, but it also has the least amount of drawbacks.
You're almost guaranteed to remain mobile, you do not require any kind of wind-up, and you are fit for always attacking anything and everything.
By default, of course.
errant narwhal
hey, i just talked today about never getting out of asphodel with arthur, but... :DD
i barely got it, but its funny to see
sullen valley
Arthur is funky. I'd say Athena and Aphrodite work best with it!
rancid egret
As a pretty casual gamer the sword was not easy to learn lol
but maybe ill try it again
but i think ill try the gun first~
sullen valley
Well, it's just what I've gathered. Experiences can vary.
The Jankest
Run
Of my life
It somehow works
I don't know how,
but I made it work...I think...?
rancid egret
So people that have done the renovation- is it just decorations ? or do they benefit you in battle in any way ? I thought we already had some of this stuff
sullen valley
It should tell you when hovering your cursor over your available options.
rancid egret
"fated list of minor prophecies" is pretty vauge
sullen valley
What's it say when hovering over it?
rancid egret
it unlocks something you need- again like i said, pretty vauge
rancid egret
anyone have a list of what the stuff does ?
sullen valley
also 10/10 I don't know if I would recommend that run.
tepid ridge
@sullen valley There are few runs funnier than triple rocket barrage to be fair
sullen valley
y e e s h
It felt more jank for me because of...well, my thought process.
"Epic Artemis Cast? Eh...can I get a Deadly Strike? Same exact boons. Oh. Tsk, I'll have more chances."
"Delta Chamber...I...hum. This is weird. With Hestia."
"I mean, I kinda wanted Artemis Attack, but...hhh, I'll take this one...? Why did I do that."
"Demeter Dash...that's uh, that's a pretty good close quarters attack, huh..."
"Doh- I forgot it no longer shoots in an arc and I now have all direct attacks."
Pretty sure Bouldy gave me Move Speed.
With the gun.
tepid ridge
Lmao I love and hate runs like that where I’m basically watching a car crash in slow motion as it goes on
sullen valley
It's like a car crash that somehow lands perfectly. My got damn Honda came out with just scratches.
I managed to get 30% Damage Bonus
I bought the Titan Blood because I wasn't expecting myself to survive, I barely got hit in Styx when I did, Poseidon offered me a Heroic Boon that dealth more damage than Demeter's Special at the last minute.
It's engine is roaring and I don't know how it's able to run at full capacity. This extremely jank build...Works.
Really well.
rose lodge
my first completed run bois
i found a broken ass combo and steam rolled the whole thing
and got a lvl 2 seeking arrows going off every hit
sullen valley
Heck is that in the top of the middle?
rose lodge
what middle
sullen valley
The boon
sullen valley
That does NOT look like any strike to me
sullen valley
turbid needle
It's the boon for God Mode.
rose lodge
it is then
sullen valley
You keep going
If you've only went through 9 runs, you're far from 100%ing the current Hades.
rose lodge
oh man
aighty then
amma go play some more now :"D
any general tip or ideas ?
like how to make a build and such
if there is a guide i would be thankful if you linked me
tepid ridge
The Hades wiki hasn’t been updated in a while but I would recommend you look at the pins in this channel for the guide as to what icons you can find on doors in the game
proud storm
hey look what i found https://i.imgur.com/Tqptx1T.png
old pact of punishment from the chaos update a year ago
sullen valley
whaat am I looking aaaat.
rose lodge
wait
proud storm
old pact of punishment from january 2019
rose lodge
holy f
i started playing the game 2 days ago
and im at 11 hours already
for my standards thats alot
i max out at 2 hours a day of games :"D
or movies
i guess the game is that good huhh
turbid needle
500% Vicious Torment. 
opal bay
can someone explain the old pact of punishment
turbid needle
Heat was an earnable resource.
And you got bonus Darkness for running it.
I know when Super Star first came out (Orpheus and Eurydice update) it was a direct 5-to-1 translation of Heat, but Skelly's statues were then scaled slightly differently.
Erebus Gates still have the same scaling (25, 50, 75 with old Pact).
solid cairn
This game has come so far
sullen valley
I am still confused as to what I am looking at on that
lament coral
times change, but Chaos shield...Chaos shield is broken
turbid needle
Aspect of Chaos has never been broken.
solid cairn
It was a little too good
solid cairn
Is Poseidon’s fishing boon a part of his normal boon pool?
earnest ravine
Yeah.
earnest ravine
It is possible to get normally. I just don't know the pre-reqs for it.
Only gotten it twice
earnest ravine
Yeah. I can't offer any more help than that, unfortunately.
solid cairn
What if it gave extra damage the more fish you catch in a run where you have it
I’m looking on the wiki for Poseidon and it says he has some of the highest damage increases in hades
Which is just a lie
His attack is 30% while common and his special is 70% common
turbid needle
I believe he has the second highest Special %.
solid cairn
Second lowest attack percent though
If people want damage on special why not go aphro who has better duo boons, a useful status effect, and helps with privileged status
Tbh make it 40% attack and 70% special
Poseidon deserves it
lament coral
could you explain the reasoning for picking Poseidon on any melee weapon?
or even the rail
lament coral
so that you'd be forced to dodge after every hit?
solid cairn
Poseidon is just kinda fundamentally bad