#h1-builds-and-combat

1 messages · Page 455 of 1

hearty pilot
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but i also want to reiterate that me saying that FF being unable to go past PS isn't the entire point being ignorant wasn't insulting, just that if you only look for the number and ignore the necessity to stack status/boon choices, then you're not really giving FF a fair evaluation

fallow niche
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Some weapons have a hard time applying privileged if your attack is Artemis

turbid needle
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^

fallow niche
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Like a really hard time

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Rail for example

solid cairn
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It depends

fallow niche
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Right now the speedrunning build me and the other runners are using uses Family Favorite because we're using Artemis attack + dash

solid cairn
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Sometimes like with nemesis sword, you want aphro attack and that’s already one status

fallow niche
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We just can't realistically apply PS

solid cairn
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So it’s very recommended

fallow niche
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Yeah nem sword is a PS weapon most of the time

solid cairn
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Slower weapons like Arthur are a toss-up

fallow niche
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Poseidon sword is either depending on what you're doing

turbid needle
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For Arthur, getting like Aphro or Demeter dash helps

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Just in general, really

fallow niche
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really hard to get PS without authority rolls though

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for PS

solid cairn
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Tbh Arthur may be better with FF because having the first hit do more damage is vital

fallow niche
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Arthur is just so strong I think you can do whatever and its still good

turbid needle
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^^^^^^

hearty pilot
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tis a shame that crush shot is a really good option for PS but it just sucks so much

turbid needle
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Case in point, the run I posted above

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Like legit LOL

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Lemme get the link real quick

fallow niche
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Crush Shot is buggy, but I have fun with it on PS

solid cairn
#

Tbh if people can argue about which is better, the alternate mirror thing is mostly a success

fallow niche
#

Artemis Cast is still broken with it

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just not... nearly as broken as it used to be

hearty pilot
#

thats probably true cinder

turbid needle
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Like, that

solid cairn
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Just gotta buff stuff up so there’s a reason to pick some of them

turbid needle
#

Still works because defensive aura is busted

fallow niche
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The alt mirror has some really good options and I really like that its here now, it just needs more balancing

hearty pilot
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i really hope sgg considers reworking where casts originate on hera because you legit cannot run crush shot

solid cairn
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Looking at you, fiery presence

fallow niche
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Most of it is underwhelming

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Just needs some buffs and we're good

turbid needle
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Hey, Stygian Soul with Electric Shot is sweet.

hearty pilot
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hmm

fallow niche
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oh jesus schpoon

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i didn't expect something THAT memey from you

turbid needle
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Stygian Soul in general is nice if you aren't running say Hera bow or Poseidon Sword

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And yes

fallow niche
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that is the spiciest thing since the last time i went to jamaica

turbid needle
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Zeus and Ares starting gods, no attacks

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gotta do with what you have to do LOL

fallow niche
turbid needle
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Okay, Electric Shot's biggest problem is that it yearns for the abyss, right?

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It must be free?

hearty pilot
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huh

turbid needle
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Well, instead of having to fetch it again, just have it spawn on you.

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Yeah, that helps a ton

fallow niche
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Going to try that meme later

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I have to see how terrible it is

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Zeus cast is the legit worst one

turbid needle
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Like, don't, I was trying to save a run that was going nowhere LOL

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That's entirely possible.

hearty pilot
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honestly zeus cast isn't that bad

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the worst is aph >_>

fallow niche
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The only one that's worse is demeters

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Noooo

turbid needle
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Out of all the casts, he's kinda the worst

fallow niche
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Aphro cast is NUTS

hearty pilot
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y e s

turbid needle
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Aphrodite cast CHUNKS

fallow niche
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It does so much damage

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its absurd

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Its only problem is bugging out

hearty pilot
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aph goes through walls half the time while also not hitting the target

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its been a problem for a long time

fallow niche
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I wouldn't say nearly that often it happens

hearty pilot
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they're not gonna fix it properly for a while

fallow niche
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It happens once in a while for me

kind cloud
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i like the zeus build but his cast is the weakest thing he gives, aphrodite's cast is ELITE. i was surprised at how effective it is.

fallow niche
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And I'm still fine because its so good

hearty pilot
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oh shoot i forgot about demeter cast

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lmao

fallow niche
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yeah

hearty pilot
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thats the worst

fallow niche
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demeters is the worst

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followed by zoos

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then poseidon probably

hearty pilot
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needing a duo to be functional is kinda hmm

fallow niche
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no

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ares

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without hunting blades is the worst

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by far

kind cloud
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wut

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no

turbid needle
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... I erased Demeter cast from my memory, why did you have to remind me it exists LOL

hearty pilot
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vicious cycle is great you dont need hb

fallow niche
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without his legendary or hb its GARBO

hearty pilot
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nah

solid cairn
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I posted the suggestion for high confidence and the realized I already did a feedback post on it a while ago

turbid needle
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Okay, are we going by vanilla boon?

fallow niche
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it needs one or both

kind cloud
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as long as you have vicious cycle and artemis legendary, you can wipe out entire stages

turbid needle
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Like, first pick-up?

hearty pilot
#

even with black emtal and engulfing its pretty fine

fallow niche
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ares cast is either godlike or trash

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no in between

turbid needle
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^

kind cloud
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wut, no

hearty pilot
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^

kind cloud
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i strongly disagree

turbid needle
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Nah, it can be mediocre supporting damage.

fallow niche
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what are your average run times if you think that thing is acceptable

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like oh my god it takes years to clear rooms

turbid needle
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Like, that run I posted was 40 minutes and I was screwing around LOL

fallow niche
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it does so little damage

turbid needle
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My average is like 25-20 minutes

hearty pilot
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isn't that everyones average

fallow niche
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Mine is 15 minutes normally

turbid needle
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Eh, some are faster

solid cairn
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Been getting faster

fallow niche
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Assuming my build was bad

turbid needle
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I don't use HB-less Slicing Shot as my primary DPS.

hearty pilot
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^

solid cairn
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I just had 3 best times in a row

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2 with fists and 1 with eris rail

fallow niche
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that's how it starts cinder

turbid needle
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I could speed things up but I refuse to use Meg keepsake for whatever reason

hearty pilot
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you def shouldn't be using ares cast as primary dps without a castpect

fallow niche
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that's what we're talking about tho

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like all the casts in a vacuum

turbid needle
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like I use Skelly or Sisyphus keepsake otherwise

fallow niche
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ares is really low down there

hearty pilot
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how are you ever at that point though?

fallow niche
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at the start of the game?

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its miserably slow

hearty pilot
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like why wouldn't you take a doom effect if you have nothing

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i cant imagine wanting to buy into hb/vc that early

turbid needle
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I usually will.

fallow niche
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#yolo

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plus this is what we're talking about

hearty pilot
fallow niche
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it doesn't apply status so its not really useful outside of its own build too

solid cairn
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Casts I think you mean boiling blood-applying octahedron

hearty pilot
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ah thats fair ig

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but putting ares below athena cast is a sin

fallow niche
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athena cast is actually hype when you use it right

hearty pilot
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maybe i just have an irrational hatred for athena as a goddess

fallow niche
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big chonker

turbid needle
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^

hearty pilot
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hm

fallow niche
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yeah maybe LUL

solid cairn
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How good is Aphro cast

hearty pilot
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is it really tho

turbid needle
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Like, Achilles Spear LOVES that

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No kidding

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That's how I got my first 32 heat run LOL

fallow niche
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achilles spear is for the insane, the absurdly skilled, and the masochists

turbid needle
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For Athena cast

hearty pilot
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i wish i could skip to 32 heat without killing all those rewards

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😔

fallow niche
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you don't kill any rewards

turbid needle
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You don't lose the rewards.

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You only need to go to 20, and you don't kill anything

hearty pilot
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wait what

fallow niche
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when you complete 32 heat it just fills in the lowest reward slot

turbid needle
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^

hearty pilot
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.

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i feel like a FOOL

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ok ty

fallow niche
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LMAO

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np

turbid needle
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That's how I forgot it somehow skipped the Heat 0 bounty

fallow niche
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like if you need to complete 10 heat then after your 32 heat run it will tell you to do 11 heat next

rancid shore
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Does it still skip the 0 Heat bounty?

turbid needle
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Yup

fallow niche
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you get the rewards from the lowest incomplete level

rancid shore
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I skipped straight to like 13 on Fists and my 0 heat bounty is still available

turbid needle
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Source : Had to do a 0 heat fists run

solid cairn
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Forge: Ares cast is garbage!!!! It does no damage and it’s only good in 1% of cases!!!
Me: haha funny red swords go spin

rancid shore
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Oh that's what you meant

turbid needle
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ye

fallow niche
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@solid cairn the duality of man

rancid shore
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like you have to do 0 heat, not that you miss out on it

fallow niche
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that's actually me cinder

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holy smokes

hearty pilot
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f

turbid needle
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Yup, penguins

rancid shore
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I see, I see mb haha

solid cairn
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I love that meme format

fallow niche
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@rancid shore yeah I believe it clears 1 heat

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if you do 32

turbid needle
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^

rancid shore
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It does clear 1, but not 0 for some reason, yeah

fallow niche
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No clue why too haha

rancid shore
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At least you don't miss out, which is good

fallow niche
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probably something to do with how the pact is programmed

turbid needle
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Can confirm, had to redo several 0 Heats after clearing 20.

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Something something spaguetti code

hearty pilot
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am i the only one that remembers at some point the community consensus on art dash was that it sucked

fallow niche
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it does in most cases

solid cairn
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It mostly does

hearty pilot
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hm

fallow niche
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you can't just use it on any build

turbid needle
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And it's still kinda meh outside of Rail/Sword

hearty pilot
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dash striking with bow is great

rancid shore
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I think it's because 0 heat is a different state from counting heat?

solid cairn
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Unless you are holding the Hestia rail

fallow niche
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its EXTREMELY good on the right buiild

solid cairn
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Or maybe nemesis

fallow niche
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you don't just choose it though

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its extremely good on zag aspect rail

hearty pilot
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wut

fallow niche
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and eris even tbh

hearty pilot
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really?

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how does that even work with the rail

turbid needle
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You get multiple shots per dash attack on rail

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So yeah

hearty pilot
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ah

fallow niche
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yeah the current WR is zag aspect rail with artemis attack and dash @hearty pilot

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rail dash attacks shoot multiple times at once

hearty pilot
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i thought you had to dash for each bullet

fallow niche
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nope

hearty pilot
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interesting

fallow niche
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you shoot twice or something like that

turbid needle
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... Oh lord if you needed to LOL

fallow niche
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dash BANG BANG

solid cairn
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And it works with spread shot

hearty pilot
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whats wr mean?

turbid needle
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World Record

hearty pilot
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winning run

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ah

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i feel like i should keeping up with these but i dont lmao

fallow niche
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this is it

rancid shore
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Is it actually multiple? Sometimes I feel like it just removes the shooting cooldown so the second shot comes out incidentally

fallow niche
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6:25

hearty pilot
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jeez

solid cairn
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Reminder that this guy has not done a speedrun for any other game

fallow niche
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We're getting that record lower tonight tho lul

turbid needle
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So my opinion on Zag Rail kinda just went from useless to actually good, crazy how things change uh

fallow niche
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@rancid shore its multiple yeah

solid cairn
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Zag rail is either really good or a worse eris

hearty pilot
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the speedrunning community terrifies me ron

fallow niche
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we just really like going fast and big numbers

rancid shore
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Huh. I feel like I've done dash attacks where only one bullet came out

hearty pilot
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me too

fallow niche
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Its because of how it works

hearty pilot
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which is whyim surprised its multiple

fallow niche
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if you attack at the wrong time you get a normal attack

solid cairn
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Now speedrun a marathon of every weapon 32 heat

fallow niche
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its real jank

solid cairn
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Every aspect I mean

fallow niche
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@solid cairn post-release im doing that

turbid needle
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Achilles Spear speedrun less go

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on 32 heat

solid cairn
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Would runner choose order

hearty pilot
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i wonder whats the record for 32 heat bow

fallow niche
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there is no category yet so we'd have to decide cinder

rancid shore
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I wish they'd let you skip narration or the pre-run Hades bullies you cutscenes

hearty pilot
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where do i find this information

fallow niche
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there is no 32 heat bow this patch yet

solid cairn
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Either way they’re gonna do zag sword first

hearty pilot
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ah

fallow niche
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in fact there are only like 2 runs atm

hearty pilot
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oop

fallow niche
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last update we had a bunch though

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I had 3rd place and was going for first until I got sick

hearty pilot
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f

turbid needle
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So you mean I could submit my 32 clear and it would count as first place? squirtheh

solid cairn
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Eris rail may be the potential best speedrun weapon for any%

fallow niche
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let me look at bow's highest, should be fairly slow though since bow is the slowest weapon

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bow isn't bad, its just not as fast because of the draw anim

hearty pilot
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im a filthy whore for coronacht so when i eventually get to 32 heat i wonder how bad i am at the game compared to everyone else

turbid needle
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32 Heat bow ain't easy

hearty pilot
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yeah i imagine bows not super fast

solid cairn
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I’m doing 32 heat with guan yu lol

rancid shore
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Hypothetically, could you submit an hour long run and still place on the leaderboard if there aren't many on there yet

turbid needle
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Especially with Tight Deadline

fallow niche
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the any% speedrunners fear us 32 heat speedrunners

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32 heat players in general actually

hearty pilot
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the what now

fallow niche
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we are the truly powerful

turbid needle
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... I'm kinda tempted

solid cairn
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You have convinced me to get zag rail to level 5

turbid needle
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You haven't maxed everything yet

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I did bow 32 with Tight Deadline.

solid cairn
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No

turbid needle
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oh ok

solid cairn
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I almost have everything that I will actually use maxed

atomic mist
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What bow aspect is the best for 32 heat?

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Like what do people use

hearty pilot
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h e r a

fallow niche
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Any?

hearty pilot
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actually idk

fallow niche
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They're all good

rancid shore
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any should work

turbid needle
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^

fallow niche
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Oh, none have been added to the board apparently

solid cairn
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The best bow aspect for 32 heat is Hestia rail

turbid needle
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My time has come.

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LOL

hearty pilot
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where do i find this information forge

fallow niche
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LMAO

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If you have a 44 minute 32 heat bow speedrun add it to the board

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record it

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please

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let it be #1

turbid needle
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^^^^^^

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Nah, I didn't save the whole run, just the screencap.

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Aww

rancid shore
solid cairn
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Watch me get record with guan yu

hearty pilot
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o

fallow niche
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I guess I can say I have the WR at 17 minutes then if we're just talking about recorded runs that weren't added to the board

hearty pilot
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cool

fallow niche
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But its not on the board

hearty pilot
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wait are you supposed to save the whole run

fallow niche
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Record it yeah

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Not just the end screen

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for verification

hearty pilot
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unfortunate

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oh hydra skip

turbid needle
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I kinda need to start recording my runs

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because I do some weird stuff at times

fallow niche
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btw if you can consistently beat 32 heat, you're far better than 99% of players @hearty pilot

turbid needle
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IE : That one run

fallow niche
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most people can't manage that

hearty pilot
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i dont know how to basic computer stuff like uhhhh what is obs

fallow niche
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I believe if you stream it on twich it should be recorded

rancid shore
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Do you need livesplit for these

fallow niche
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Tho that also required OBS doesnt it

solid cairn
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well it is time for me to go back to nemesis sword

fallow niche
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I don't stream so

hearty pilot
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you FOOL i dont know how to stream for twitch either mwahahaha

fallow niche
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lmao

hearty pilot
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this is a cry for help

fallow niche
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I just setup OBS for recording

hearty pilot
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hm

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aight

fallow niche
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I just set the output for 720p since I don't want massive files on my hard drive

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meanwhile Sink records in 4k

opal bay
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yeah OBS should be fine tbh

fallow niche
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like a monster

turbid needle
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...Do they have a spare 2TB drive just for footage?

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...

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Hoping they do LOL

solid cairn
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I have never done extreme mesaures hydra before

turbid needle
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Oh boi

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You gon' learn pain

hearty pilot
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flying lernie

solid cairn
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idk what to put my heat into

hearty pilot
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he do be chasing you

fallow niche
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@turbid needle I was helping him with his runs last night and the dude ran out of HDD space like 6 times in the middle of runs

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LMAO

turbid needle
fallow niche
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had to clear all the recordings out once an hour

turbid needle
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lol

hearty pilot
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im curious-- is there any reason that not recording your entire run could cause doubt as to actually speedrunning the thing

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oh god mode?

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is that why

fallow niche
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That too

opal bay
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I am on constant 12 heat and after update I have been just doing runs with extreme measures, packages and middle-management all filled up.

fallow niche
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People have faked speedruns for other games too

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Its just standard procedure for all speedrunning

opal bay
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can't wait to do 8 more heats. dusa

fallow niche
hearty pilot
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ah

fallow niche
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Its the actual official website

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We have a page admin and everything

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Last update was great we had a ton of people from around the world competing for 32 heat especially

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Tons of weapon aspects were used

turbid needle
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There's an icon for God Mode on the block on the right side of the clear screen if you have it.

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And then Haelian blew them all up.

fallow niche
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Some dude with Taiwan lit a fire under everyone by choosing 100% hard labor and 100% lasting consequences to get the fastest time

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and just NEVER got hit

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Dudes a legend

hearty pilot
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jesus

turbid needle
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Fresh File is a category baalorEyes

fallow niche
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Yeah only one runner in it atm

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with two others considering atm

turbid needle
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🤔

hearty pilot
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wait does 100% lasting consequences mean that you can't heal at all or all healing is halved because idk how math works i think it can be both sometimes

fallow niche
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No healing at all

turbid needle
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Can't heal at all

fallow niche
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50% is halved

hearty pilot
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hm

fallow niche
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Nobody uses it right now though

turbid needle
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Unless you get Darkness/Centaur hearts

kind cloud
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u gon die

fallow niche
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That was last update

hearty pilot
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so why is 100% more only half

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wait

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no

kind cloud
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lol, bruh

hearty pilot
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kjjkl

fallow niche
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lmao blarg you're great

hearty pilot
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i swear 100% sometimes means half but i cant remember the phrasing that causes that

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apparently never according to google

fallow niche
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uh you may be thinking of 100% more which would mean the base value is half of the new total

hearty pilot
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yeah probably

fallow niche
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its about perspective on that one I can see how the mistake could be made

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brainfarts occur LUL

hearty pilot
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im fairly sure i have some sort of dyscalculia i only look for the shiny purple colors on my boons lmao

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these numbers mean nothing to me ron

turbid needle
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To be fair, Purple is good in this game

fallow niche
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purple is always good

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except on food

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that usually means its dangerous

hearty pilot
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and blue

fallow niche
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except blue cheese

hearty pilot
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isn't that

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like bad

fallow niche
turbid needle
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Blue cheese. shadeohboy

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Never tried one

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maybe one day

opal bay
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do we have something against grape fanta

fallow niche
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the most dangerous drink.

opal bay
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because that is an epic purple drink

fallow niche
#

wok has been dead all along 😭

hearty pilot
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do most 32 heat run uses tight deadline cause im thinking of how elysium must be hell

fallow niche
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Yes Tight Deadline turns off Hades trap rooms

hearty pilot
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esp with jury summons

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it does what now

fallow niche
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The rooms where Hades has a time limit where you stay in them

turbid needle
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^

fallow niche
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and he constantly spawns enemies

opal bay
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but it doesn't turn off Thanatos

turbid needle
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Nope

fallow niche
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oh god thanatos

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don't trigger me

hearty pilot
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oh trove trials?

turbid needle
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But Than does stop the timer

hearty pilot
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wait no

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the erebus plucking

fallow niche
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no, not trove trials, the actual rooms that have a similar effect

turbid needle
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^

hearty pilot
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yeah

turbid needle
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Like, everything goes red and Hades gets triggered and you have to survive for 45 seconds

hearty pilot
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i call it the erebus plucking because he described it as plucking shades directly from erebus himself

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why he doesn't do that every room is beyond me

turbid needle
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🤷‍♂️

opal bay
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good thing that the red timer stops during Thanatos encounter

fallow niche
#

Anything besides Jury Summons and Calisthenics Program are fair game for a 32 heat speedrun

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Those two just make it take sooo much longer

opal bay
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but rip the usual timer

fallow niche
#

^

turbid needle
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I've been running 15% Calisthenics, but Jury Summons is the worst.

hearty pilot
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speaking of timers, lambent plume not scaling with any heat seems mean

turbid needle
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It's not just more enemies, it's more enemies AFTER the normal ones

fallow niche
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Plume needs a buff generally I'd say

turbid needle
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Which takes THAT much more time

opal bay
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I should slowly rise up to 20 after I do 12 heat on every weapon tbh

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thinking on picking up the heat that increases the speed of enemies

fallow niche
#

Yes that one is good

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I can't remember a time when I didn't play with it on

opal bay
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(which reminds me of a bug where I didn't change my heat gauge, so after update the gauge was on 80% speed up for enemies and it actually speed them up that much)

fallow niche
#

Forced Overtime

hearty pilot
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once you get used to FO its weird to go back

turbid needle
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^^^^^^

atomic mist
#

Yeah

hearty pilot
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i changed from 20 to 40 and i think im getting the hang of it now

fallow niche
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Oh yeah I got 100% speed when that happened Wok

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My enemies moved like NUTS

hearty pilot
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but i also have yet to hit elysium so we'll see

fallow niche
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and their anims broke

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Some AI broke too

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like everything went haywire

atomic mist
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I got so used to max FO that it became harder to dodge some attacks since the timing felt off

fallow niche
#

Lmao same

opal bay
#

can't wait to relearn the attack patterns, but still get hit quite a lot by Asterias since I don't know personal space with him during fights.

hearty pilot
#

isn't his attack animation bugged?

#

it doesn't match with the timing at all with FO

#

at least thats what i noticed

fallow niche
#

Asterius is a fine fight

#

His EM3 fight tho is

#

uh

#

oh god the spin

#

why is it so HUUUGE

opal bay
#

Yeah I play on EM3

fallow niche
hearty pilot
#

tornado bull man

turbid needle
#

Also the moment when Theseus bombs do not have the marker and hey look there goes my death defiance because the marker didn't show up

hearty pilot
#

laughs in ranged attacks

fallow niche
#

covers like half the damn arena

opal bay
#

though I learnt to consistently win the fight for 12 times in a row now

turbid needle
#

Asterius could use a very small range nerf.

#

Like, that bug alone made me look at the damn bombs themselves

opal bay
#

considering I haven't been dying dumb ways and actually doing well after fully upgrading my stuff and actually knowing what combos work well.

fallow niche
#

Wakey Wakey update patch notes: "We heard people complaining about Asterius's spin attack range, we understand. Buffed to +50% range." @turbid needle

turbid needle
#

Oh, dying in dumb ways is how to learn. Source : Dying in Tartarus when starting out to the basic enemies baalorLUL

opal bay
#

or in short: I have done too many runs with Demeter's Twin Fists, oh gosh oh frick.

turbid needle
fallow niche
opal bay
#

at the very start I was consistently dying on Hydra, about 5 times before actually learning how it works.

turbid needle
#

Someone remind me to get a bunch of Twitch emotes on Nitro some time tonight. I need my Saitama and Wrex stress emote.

opal bay
#

I am honestly thankful I randomly got a nitro for no reason from someone

fallow niche
#

all i need in my life

#

is this gecko emoji

opal bay
turbid needle
#

Where did you even get that

fallow niche
#

every time i see it, it brings me joy

#

a friend made it a long time ago

hearty pilot
#

awww its called geck

#

i love it

fallow niche
#

a crop from a twitter post

#

ever since then several other servers i'm in added it to their emojis because its so good

#

geckChamp

turbid needle
#

Nice

opal bay
#

it's nice.
And uh real question. What you guys think is probably the least liked heat option?

fallow niche
#

NO CHOICE

turbid needle
#

No Choice

kind cloud
#

maxed out benefits package

turbid needle
#

Eh

fallow niche
#

"approval process" now

#

is what its called

turbid needle
#

^

#

It's bad on so many levels

fallow niche
#

also this other gecko emoji i forgot about this one

hearty pilot
#

h e i g h t e n e d s e c u r i t y

fallow niche
#

also good

opal bay
#

ah I forgot it's existence for a bit there. dusa

turbid needle
#

lol

opal bay
#

honestly why it has to taunt so greatly

lament coral
#

Security is awesome

atomic mist
#

I used approval process on my 32 heat runs shadeembarassed

lament coral
#

it's free heat

fallow niche
#

security is great yeah

hearty pilot
#

yeah twas a joke

lament coral
#

just don't step under the guillotine

turbid needle
#

Security is lowkey one of the better heats to turn on to learn on how to position yourself

hearty pilot
#

although fb's jars and skulls count as traps

opal bay
#

unless you aren't good with Hades urns

atomic mist
#

Not wanting to take tight deadline doesn't leave many other options

hearty pilot
#

the skulls counting as traps is so weird

fallow niche
#

yeah its weird

opal bay
#

wait the onces that Hades throws?

atomic mist
#

Wait the skulls are traps?

wicked raft
#

Guan Yu spear is so ridiculous

turbid needle
#

... the skulls are traps, WHAT

wicked raft
#

Hitting 4-5K crits on hit alone, and its AOE

hearty pilot
#

the energy blasts

fallow niche
#

yeah

turbid needle
#

Oh

#

That

hearty pilot
#

that release if you dont kill them

turbid needle
#

Yeah sure

hearty pilot
#

like it makes sense

#

but its also very unintuitive

atomic mist
#

So just to clarify, the shockwave circle is a trap but the projectile skull isnt?

turbid needle
#

Yeah

hearty pilot
#

yee

wicked raft
#

Spear is prob the only thing I've found posidean boons useful on

turbid needle
#

^

hearty pilot
#

i like poseidon on bow attack iff i have distant memory and/or sniper shot

#

that is a rare scenario

wicked raft
#

Razor shoals on Guan Yu special is really strong

vivid relic
#

what weapon is the best you guys think?

turbid needle
#

Maaaaybe Poseidon fists for that sweet sweet duo synergy, and same with Chiron bow

hearty pilot
#

there isn't a best

opal bay
#

I love poseidon because he gives him free stuff (also gave me a diamond today actually too, which I kind of feel happy about)

hearty pilot
#

its largely playstyle

vivid relic
#

yes but let's say you were just starting

hearty pilot
#

hmm

fallow niche
#

poseidon's boons suck outside of his dash

kind cloud
#

chaos shield!

fallow niche
#

poseidon dash is legit broken strong

vivid relic
#

would you recommend the sword or the bow or the shield

fallow niche
#

but that's it

hearty pilot
#

prolly the shield

turbid needle
#

Glad I'm not the only one noting about the Poseidon dash LOL

fallow niche
#

@vivid relic shield, any aspect

vivid relic
#

ah ok i'll try that on my next run

hearty pilot
#

the free damage immunity is so busted

fallow niche
#

shield is very very solid starting weapon

wicked raft
#

Poseidons special attack is really decent with spear

turbid needle
#

^

#

Or just a solid weapon in general

#

outside of speedruns lol

wicked raft
#

And shale is good too, pretty much poison kills most units

fallow niche
#

chaos shield is a good speedrun weapon

wicked raft
#

Shield is by far the easiest beginner weapon

atomic mist
#

I thought poseidon dash with the fists was a really bad combo since I kept dashing to the enemies and knocking them away...

turbid needle
#

But like, it's no Rail or Sword

#

but still

wicked raft
#

Shield > Bow > Sword > Rail > everything else imo

fallow niche
#

yeah fists are the exception probably @atomic mist

hearty pilot
#

if poseidon had more damage, rupture scaled better but boons didn't push as much and his damage didn't come from needing walls (cough, typhoon fury, cough) he would be way better

#

like aph being the highest dmg god is odd

wicked raft
#

The lack of push on bosses kills poseidon

opal bay
#

I had a Demeter special run with chaos shield today

#

don't know what I was thinking tbh

atomic mist
#

This kills the Poseidon

hearty pilot
#

lmao

wicked raft
#

On run 70(?) with like 40+ escapes

#

This might be the second run ever I've liked poseidon

opal bay
#

I mean if you do it with fully charged up Demeter's aspect fists you can actually knock them out of the park

#

but otherwise yeah no way to push them around like any other enemy

hearty pilot
#

i wish the push worked on bosses but the knockback is so much that you cant follow up at all

wicked raft
#

Only other run I liked with poseidon boons was a cast duo with demeter run

hearty pilot
#

but i like the idea of poseidon's niche being punishing enemy movemenet

#

i think thats a solid theme

wicked raft
#

With most melee weapons, poseidon gets you killed -_-

#

Did a sword run with poseidon legendary

opal bay
#

Poseidon is great against any other enemy (except bosses ofcourse)

wicked raft
#

Giant rats kept getting bounced into me

turbid needle
#

Like, Poseidon legendary isn't even all that great, the most use I had out of it was to sell it for that sweet obol value LOL

hearty pilot
#

i dont wanna start this discussion again cause it got kinda heated but FP is helping me with no choice ron thank god the rerolls move the striked boon

#

second wave is good for like rupture but

atomic mist
#

It's underwhelming for a legendary boon

hearty pilot
#

its such a strange combo

wicked raft
#

Yeah, his legendary is terrible unless you're using a very specific build + weapon

hearty pilot
#

because most of the time you aren't able to capitalize on that

opal bay
#

wait

#

FP actually having a good use?

wicked raft
#

Imo, razor shale > his legendary

turbid needle
#

^

hearty pilot
#

smh fp rights

#

😤

atomic mist
#

What is FP?

hearty pilot
#

fated persuasion

turbid needle
#

Even if you do, more often than not his legendary is overkill

opal bay
turbid needle
#

Or, as is the trend with Poseidon, useless against bosses

opal bay
#

hey, guys, look he is using FP!

wicked raft
#

I've been using FP ever since I unlocked it:D

#

cutting down RNG = win

opal bay
#

Honestly still kind of sad it just rerolls placement and rarity

wicked raft
#

I love how OP you can get with it though

turbid needle
#

It is guaranteed to roll at 'least one new boon now

hearty pilot
#

i think in its current state FA is better but i think FP's base concept is better

wicked raft
#

Did a run earlier where I had 3 duos (basically all of demeter's cast duos)

turbid needle
#

FP needs more charges.

hearty pilot
#

so im running FP cause im lazy

turbid needle
#

And possibly more ways to force boon spawns (without God's Chosen).

opal bay
#

I feel like one choice changing to another is still a bit weak.

hearty pilot
#

did sgg ever clarify why they keep renaming the heat options

wicked raft
#

It helps when you're shooting for a specific duo / legend

turbid needle
#

Lore reasons

hearty pilot
#

wait really

turbid needle
#

The pact of punishment is a contract, and the terms in it are what you use in the game

hearty pilot
#

so is someone actually coming into zag's room and inspecting his mirror

turbid needle
#

So they have to be related, name wise, to office things

wicked raft
#

Also, hitting 5K on crit Guan Yu special is so fun. Some combos are just ridiculous

turbid needle
#

Could be LOL

solid cairn
#

almost beat the nemesis run. Went through all of styx with 1 DD but just barely didn't kill him

hearty pilot
#

nice

solid cairn
#

trying zag rail rn

opal bay
#

awh

wicked raft
#

Is there any point in building normal attack for rail?

#

In all my rail clears, I just went bomb

atomic mist
#

Hestia?

turbid needle
#

Lightning, Hangover, Hestia, and Spread Fire Eris.

wicked raft
#

Have not been able to get attack > bomb dmg

turbid needle
#

Normal attack on rail can be great. Artemis, Zeus, Demeter all work good

#

Dio as well

#

Then you have the hammer aspects for it like Spread fire yeah

wicked raft
#

Hm. Maybe with Hestia I guess it makes sense

turbid needle
#

Ooh, Demeter too, maybe.

hearty pilot
#

i love rare crop coming before you have enough boons to cultivate anything :)

turbid needle
#

Hestia is nuts for that lol

wicked raft
#

I've been running with eris aspect so never saw a point in attk dmg

turbid needle
#

But even normal rail works fine for attack

hearty pilot
#

with the hestia aspect am i the only thats constantly reloading it bc thats what i thought im supposed to be doing lmao

turbid needle
#

... If anything, you WANT attack damage with eris

atomic mist
#

I use exclusively Hestia lol

turbid needle
#

it's the hybrid aspect

wicked raft
#

I always skip attack damage on Eris

#

Since bomb hits for like 200-300

hearty pilot
#

i only use the empowered shot for hestia but idk if thats like what im supposed to be doing or not

turbid needle
#

^ you are fine

wicked raft
#

Bomb dmg is basically immediate and you can get it to like 500 - 1k dmg a bomb with Eris

turbid needle
#

in like 98 % scenarios, you want to hit that reload for each shot to be powered up

wicked raft
#

Whereas shooting normally does like 200 dmg and takes awhile to unload clip

turbid needle
#

Bomb damage is a bit slow unless you get the Rocket hammer

#

Compared to rail attack damage

#

It is good damage tho

#

and not wrong to build special on Eris

wicked raft
#

Hm. Will have to build Hestia and try it

#

Eris I usually also pair with Demeter Lob

turbid needle
#

On Hestia you will explode things up

wicked raft
#

So like 2K dmg every 1 sec or so in AOE

turbid needle
#

No kidding

#

You can get that damage and more with Hestia shots

#

With like Artemis Attack, Hunter dash

wicked raft
#

Do you reload every shot on Hestia?

turbid needle
#

ideally, yes

#

One shot, manual reload, one shot, manual reload

#

repeat as much as needed

wicked raft
#

And short burst shotgun hammer?

hearty pilot
#

doesn't work

turbid needle
#

That one won't do too much

#

hestia will override it

hearty pilot
#

it'd be cool if it did

#

but it dont 😔

wicked raft
#

😦

turbid needle
#

It would be busted

atomic mist
#

It'd be way too op

hearty pilot
#

i wish we could bind reload to mouse scroll

#

prolly tbh

wicked raft
#

Time to kill Hades in like 10sec again. 5K crits, here we go 🙂

turbid needle
#

You could get like 10K crits LOL

wicked raft
#

😮

turbid needle
#

Since Hestia usually reaches 2K

kind cloud
#

how are you doing 5 or 10k damage? what's your weapon and boons?

turbid needle
#

times 5, yeah

wicked raft
#

Oh, I'm getting 5K in a single hit.

turbid needle
#

You are going to have to post the build, sir

#

Because that's nuts

kind cloud
#

most damage i've ever done is with ares vicious cycle and that got up to around 3.5k

wicked raft
#

With guan yu special

kind cloud
#

so i'm super curious about this build

#

yeah, i know

turbid needle
#

Oh yeah, fair enough

#

Charged Skewer crit

kind cloud
#

guan yu special is basically the exploding launcher hammer upgrade from the start

turbid needle
#

Yup

kind cloud
#

but then what's the boon? artemis?

turbid needle
#

yup

kind cloud
#

ah

#

combined with charged skewer?

turbid needle
#

yup

kind cloud
#

ok, anything else?

#

poms perhaps?

turbid needle
#

You get insane damage form the get go, and can build towards it

#

Yeah, poms are nice

kind cloud
#

anything else?

turbid needle
#

Usually want Aphrodite for statuses, but outside of that you don't need much of anything. Maybe athena for the duo with say, the dash

kind cloud
#

what about the one hammer grade that does 400% damage to armor?

wicked raft
#

Chaos special boon, and battle rage + urge to kill is nice too

turbid needle
#

That one's good too

#

But not required per say

kind cloud
#

oh yeah, forgot about battle rage from ares so another 200%

turbid needle
#

You only really need Charged Skewer

wicked raft
#

And urge to kill

atomic mist
#

Battle rage is really great with Hestia

turbid needle
#

^

#

And arthur. Non-ironically, Achilles likes it too

wicked raft
#

Basically battle rage + charged skewer + urge to kill + chaos boons + clean kill + pierced butterfly + either Pos / Aphro or Artemis special (with a few poms)

#

I have breaching skewer too, but its kind of useless since you take down armor in 1 hit already anyway

turbid needle
#

^

wicked raft
#

The other spears feel kinda of lack luster compared to Guan Yu. Hades spear is nice but getting a OP combo is much harder.

turbid needle
#

Hades spear kinda relies on spin hammers to be effective

hearty pilot
#

hades not working on spin attacks makes it reaaaally bad

turbid needle
#

^ that as well

#

the buff applies to attacks and specials only, no spins

wicked raft
#

Yeah. Not getting those spin hammers on a hades spear run makes the run super painful

turbid needle
#

Achilles is wack

hearty pilot
#

which im not sure why because there should be a spin aspect and it might as well be the biggest spinner in the game

#

achilles seems interesting but also h

wicked raft
#

I thought the Achilles charge buff would go up with upgrades

turbid needle
#

But to be honest, it kinda works with most hammers

wicked raft
#

+2 buffed attacks sucks though

turbid needle
#

Even the returning one, the crit applies if you do the rush

#

Enough to do a spin, and works on casts as well

#

Hell, even for two regular attacks it's a good chunk of damage

atomic mist
#

Hades buff doesn't work on spin attacks? Odd

wicked raft
#

The only build I could work with on normal Zag spear

#

Is the range extension + ares doom on attack

turbid needle
#

Flurry Jab

#

It's insane

wicked raft
#

Dash attack, doom everything from half a map away, and hide

hearty pilot
#

it does not, or at least thats what i determined from skelly numbers

#

also is it just me or does poseidon increase the attack speed for the bow

wicked raft
#

May try getting flurry jab next time I run spear

turbid needle
#

^

atomic mist
#

It sure feels faster

turbid needle
#

It's worth it

wicked raft
#

Doing just special spam with Guan Yu is fun but gets kinda boring

atomic mist
#

But I doubt it actually increases the attack speed

turbid needle
#

The thing about Flurry Jab : It's fast enough to add an extra attack to your dash-attack

#

So you get much more damage than it says

hearty pilot
#

im not sure why poseidon might be causing a placebo effect of all people

turbid needle
#

Peeps desperate for Poseidon attack to be useful ever

#

ATTACK specifically

#

Special, Dash, Cast and Casts are all good

atomic mist
#

I had it on a run earlier today and it wasn't awful. Good for pushing away the chariots in elysium...

hearty pilot
#

its like

#

ok

#

not terrible imo

turbid needle
#

It's the % damage numbers

#

they are so low

hearty pilot
#

yeah

#

rip everyones fantasy of making zagreus into percy jackson ron

wicked raft
#

Oh, forgot about needing clean kill too in Guan Yu 5k special build

turbid needle
#

RIP old Zag Aspect Varatha.

#

Was getting 100+ damage pokes with Black Out and Flurry Jab.

hearty pilot
#

what happened

turbid needle
#

Got reverted to increase speed, range, and damage on Special.

#

Instead of Attack damage

#

Used to be +10 base damage to Attack and Dash Attack.

hearty pilot
#

oh

#

f

turbid needle
#

It made me like the spear again.

atomic mist
#

And before that, wasn't it like... increased attack range or something like that?

turbid needle
#

Special range

#

and a lot of it

atomic mist
#

There's been so many changes I can't keep up

turbid needle
#

yeah

#

it's hard

wicked raft
#

Though, breaking wave with poseidan and his special or cast on a ranged wep is pretty good

#

Stuff takes like 700+ dmg from just bouncing around in the Satyr / rat maps

hearty pilot
#

whoever mentioned poseidon dash being surprisingly good... u rite celeste

turbid needle
#

On Epic rarity, level 2 poseidon dash deals 70 damage

#

70

#

that's a lot for a dash

worthy spire
#

pos really be like knock em all against the wall

kind cloud
#

his dash combined with razor shoals and typhoon fury is so damn good

hearty pilot
#

i hate that sgg focused on wall damage as opposed to movement punishment with poseidon 😔

kind cloud
#

i love it

#

the only dash i like more is athena's deflect

worthy spire
#

movement punishment?

hearty pilot
#

AAAAAAAAAAAA benefit packages maxed hurty

#

yes

worthy spire
#

you mean damaging enemies when they move?

kind cloud
#

but zeus dash with jolted is so good too

hearty pilot
#

rupture doesn't do that enough i feel

worthy spire
#

or slowing them

hearty pilot
#

the theme is good

kind cloud
#

rupture does a lot when it's combined with typhoon fury

hearty pilot
#

yeah i just dont like that poseidon requires walls

turbid needle
#

Rupture's damage is subtle

#

But it's good damage

worthy spire
#

i just got a chaos boon that promised one dd after 4 encounters of cursed attack

#

i had an attack build on bow

hearty pilot
#

f

worthy spire
#

and i freakin took it

hearty pilot
#

attack curses with hera aspect make me cry

#

because you can only special and special without chiron is just dfjklakjlfajk;

worthy spire
#

started using closeup armor shredding volleys on bombers and wave throwers

#

real death im tellin ya

wicked raft
#

😄

worthy spire
#

soon i died to a stray bomb

#

first encounter even had a damn trove in it

#

im like "ok game...ok"

#

ofc didnt open THAT

#

i actually reeeeally wanna like the bow volley cause it looks so cool

#

but it also misses a lot, like the arrows go around many enemies its weird

wicked raft
#

Chiron solves all of those issues 🙂

worthy spire
#

is it the 3 seeking arrows/

#

yeah i guess thats more focused damage

#

for now the good ol volley can be our close up sawed-off thingy

#

actually more like a bolt pistol, gotta hit em point blank with it to do damage 😆

wicked raft
#

If you upgrade it

#

You get +7 seeking arrows

radiant scarab
#

Woah, my quickest run was 26 mins, that 6 min sounds real impressive

wicked raft
#

And then a hammer on it is +4 more, so you can get +11 seeking arrows

sly sonnet
#

26 in general

#

or high heat

wicked raft
#

Completely melts people

radiant scarab
#

26 in 8-9 heat

sly sonnet
#

Thats okay then

#

people who get 6 min focus on speed

radiant scarab
#

I stacked pierced butterfly up to 46% damage today, which is a personal record ❤️

sly sonnet
#

or pause the game while selecting boons

#

room that is

wicked raft
#

Has anyone found aspect of hera useful (bow)? I find its pretty underwhelming

sly sonnet
#

thats the cast one ?

radiant scarab
#

doesn't the game auto=pause the timer when you're selecting something?

wicked raft
#

Only build that is unique to hera I think is exit wounds + lightning stones

#

Yeah

radiant scarab
#

@wicked raft I love Hera bow

atomic mist
#

Hera? Underwhelming?

sly sonnet
#

yes when selecting but not like after you clear a room when seeing which room you want to go into

#

or in shop

wicked raft
#

:o, why would you ever want to use hera over Chiron? Or even base bow

sly sonnet
#

I have yet to use hera

radiant scarab
#

Hera bow is one of the strongest weapons imho, you can stack like 1000 damage in a single show

turbid needle
#

Hera is the "tactical nuke" of bows

radiant scarab
#

*shot

atomic mist
#

Find a good cast, buff the cast, big damage. That's all you need

hearty pilot
#

hera is great

#

i am not biased

sly sonnet
#

Imma do a hera run then next

#

I want to try festive fog and hera run

hearty pilot
#

chiron i dont like cause the bows special is super slow imo

sly sonnet
#

and still havent gotten shotgun rail hammer upgrade after 3 rail runs

turbid needle
#

Dio cast with Hera bow is about the strongest hera build

hearty pilot
#

so i dont ever like using it unless i wanna clear projectiles

radiant scarab
#

Dio cast with Hera is insane

wicked raft
#

0...o, going to have to try Hera next then once I get more bloods

atomic mist
#

Artemis cast with Hera is also nice

turbid needle
#

^

sly sonnet
#

Should I use the regening cast then or the 3 casts ?

atomic mist
#

But Dio takes it

wicked raft
#

I usually use stygian soul

turbid needle
#

You want Infernal 100%

wicked raft
#

So thought Hera's ability is counter productive

radiant scarab
#

I think both cast variants can be good depending on your build

hearty pilot
#

yeah stygian doesn't work

atomic mist
#

If you want to use Stygian Soul with Hera you really need to get those extra casts. But that's somewhat unreliable so...

radiant scarab
#

but yeah stacking in 3 Dio cast shots is amazing

sly sonnet
#

You made me want to fire up the game now

#

which I will do

radiant scarab
#

it really depends whether you want 1 big shot or many moderate shots

wicked raft
#

Is there a max number of shots you can stack into hera?

turbid needle
#

Nope

radiant scarab
#

nope

atomic mist
#

No

turbid needle
#

About as many casts as you have

#

So you can have 8 and load all of them up in one shot

wicked raft
#

How does that work with Stygian

sly sonnet
#

Wait

#

you can do that

#

bruh

#

I thought its one at a time

turbid needle
#

I think you need to wait for reloads for Stygian

#

but can you stack them over time ?

hearty pilot
#

yeah

wicked raft
#

So I could technically stack a 100 cast shot? lol

turbid needle
#

That I don't know

hearty pilot
#

actually

atomic mist
#

If you have 1/1 bloodstones you can only load 1. It doesn't consume it

hearty pilot
#

does stygian reset after loading or only firing?

#

ah

turbid needle
#

Oh ok, thanks rustiest

atomic mist
#

Lol my name is such garbage

wicked raft
#

Thanks! rip epic one shot hades attempt. haha

hearty pilot
#

lmao if you think your name is garbage you should see mine

wicked raft
#

😄

atomic mist
#

You do have a point there blarghhh

turbid needle
#

My twitch username is literally ToHeckWithNames

#

so yeah

#

Don't have to mind it too much

#

and it ain't bad honestly

atomic mist
#

I guess not

worthy spire
#

man, playing with just a few mirror talents is the real hell mode isnt it

#

costs so many keys to get the new talents, theres a 30-key tier after the 20-key one

turbid needle
#

Welcome to old Budget Cuts, and old Hell Mode

hearty pilot
#

i cant even bear routine inspection

worthy spire
#

im not even using that cause i dont have it unlocked for w/e reason

hearty pilot
#

i need my darkness dumps >:(

worthy spire
#

isnt hell mode mirror capped at 2500?

#

or did they change that

turbid needle
#

They changed that.

worthy spire
#

good

hearty pilot
#

yeah thats what it used to be but now its just talents being g o n e

turbid needle
#

Redid Budget Cuts, the old Pact option, but before they changed it to Routine Inspection.

worthy spire
#

i still cant see routine inspection on my pre run screen

#

do i have to unlock it

hearty pilot
#

you have to unlock all talents

worthy spire
#

oh

hearty pilot
#

because it starts with the bottom talents being removed

worthy spire
#

i guess it DOES make a lot of sense

turbid needle
#

No cheesing around here

worthy spire
#

but id have expected to still see it grayed out

#

no im not looking to cheese extra bounties by removing "nothing"

hearty pilot
#

yeah its weird to just have empty spaces

worthy spire
#

in fact i play without dd so thats reverse cheese

hearty pilot
#

o_o

sly sonnet
#

What in your opinion are the worst pacts ?

#

Like I should select them last

#

if possible

solid cairn
worthy spire
#

the heal-on-room is my real lifesaver tho

#

+2 hp on entry

#

just beautiful

#

couldnt have done w/o it

hearty pilot
#

no choice or whatever it is now kinda blows

worthy spire
#

meg told me something about extreme measures

sly sonnet
#

I officially completed 69 runs

worthy spire
#

way she spoke about it

#

not very promising

hearty pilot
#

extreme measures buffs the bosses in... interesting ways

worthy spire
#

i thought it was a 3 fury fight

#

ill have to see i guess

#

cause that would be hell

atomic mist
#

The 3 furies fuse into one Megafury

hearty pilot
#

its sometimes two

worthy spire
#

i mean, alecto alone is a pain when you have to stop her rage as melee

hearty pilot
#

really?

#

i thought alecto was the easiest

worthy spire
#

cause of all the waves of red orbs

hearty pilot
#

they only made her rage once instead of four times

worthy spire
#

yeah but if the bar fills up as she shoots the rings i think she can rage early

wicked raft
#

75 runs in

worthy spire
#

and i had to hit her twice or more to stop the bar

atomic mist
#

I used to think Alecto was the easiest but not anymore. She can be really hard to deal with on some weapons

wicked raft
#

And I finally unlocked the bouldy companion

worthy spire
#

on the fists she could be a real pain

hearty pilot
#

companions are really not made evident

#

tis a shame

#

there should be like a starter companion to introduce it bc rn it feels like an afterthought

worthy spire
#

wanna hear something funny when i met alecto for the first time my jaw dropped but i killed her with a real op dio rail build...next run there's tisi and that time i almost dislocated said jaw

#

im like wow i need to learn new patterns...AGAIN

hearty pilot
#

rip

wicked raft
#

I hate tisi

hearty pilot
#

tis becomes super easy if you get used to being behind her at all times

atomic mist
#

I kinda like the current keepsake system. There's already a lot going on in the early game and which keepsake would even be the starter one? Maybe the last one, idk

#

Not keepsake, companion

hearty pilot
#

the keepsakes are decent, though i dont think they feel active enough

#

mayhaps a nyx companion bc she made them

#

and also maternal figure

atomic mist
#

Yeah I could see it. It'd be cute if Hypnos had one, maybe a sheep or something

hearty pilot
#

oo

worthy spire
#

hypnos should have one that provides tutorial tooltips LUL

wicked raft
#

My favorite is skelly's companion and the bouldy

atomic mist
wicked raft
#

Skellys companion is great for boss battles