I destroyed elysium and styx
#h1-builds-and-combat
sly sonnet
But I still mostly do sword and fist runs
I occasionaly pick up spear bow and rail
And the shield is my least favorite
rocky sage
do u use dark regen or chtonthic regen on your high heat runs?
sly sonnet
Havent started high heat yet
rocky sage
also i never take damage vs armor
sly sonnet
I am clearing to 5 with every weapon rn
rocky sage
idk if thats a mistake
rocky sage
waiting for @lament coral
lament coral
dark regen
sly sonnet
I love dark regen
lament coral
getting full HP off darkness chests is invaluable
sly sonnet
Yup
lament coral
@rocky sage yeah, not a fan either
sly sonnet
Thats the dash in right moment ?
rocky sage
i did a run with it just for the mission
lament coral
it's just 1 dash vs 2 dashes
rocky sage
ye
sly sonnet
Yeah its meh
unless you getting a lot of hermes stuff
then it can be okay
but there is no way to force hermes I believe
dapper pilot
I dunno, I’ve been having a lot of fun with it
prime knoll
Ruthless reflex is life
dapper pilot
If you can consistently pull off the timing then the damage and dodge chance make up for the singular dash
prime knoll
I don't think I'll ever go back to +N dashes because one dash is all you need if you dash at the right time
dapper pilot
Though I usually try to get a few more dashes from Hermes if he offers for insurance
prime knoll
I have actually had mixed feelings about getting extra dashes. I usually get so used to the one dash that I forget to use the extras, so I just go for other boons from Hermes.
I've been pretty happy with the slight delay between consecutive dashes as a price for massive dodge and damage boost
timber temple
I’m too used to having multiple dashes that I can’t see myself going down to just one
I down run i dash everywhere
covert tide
@brisk island do you have the Poseidon Zeus duo too?
In that clip
Maybe the lightning is striking on every tick of the Poseidon demeter cast damage?
Which would be like every 0.2 seconds or something, right?
brisk island
@covert tide No. Just Poseidon x Demeter duo. And Chaos cast damage %.
brisk island
hm...
l still in this run - l try look closer
@covert tide Nah - no zeus effects 100%.
With this broken build l can beat a max heat, just holy $h1t.
Problem is get this nasty thing.
obtuse cipher
I think I only got it twice, but it's maybe my favourite duo boon even.
Among my favourites at least
covert tide
Then...
What’s that on the right?
Yellow circle with the vertical yellow line
If you watch closely during the video it happens a bunch of times all over
obtuse cipher
Ah I think I know
It's the rubble falling down
Watch on 0.25 speed
The pillar is small, but it seems to originate from there
covert tide
But it happens a lot
obtuse cipher
I mean I always see rocks breaking in these areas, too
brisk island
@covert tide wow... hm funny. seems thats why so much damage - but l didn't got any yellow numbers.
yeah... l think its probably rocks
obtuse cipher
Everytime yellow circles appear, there's a pillar that's being hit and rocks falling down
The range is pretty high on that duo boon
Eh in like the spread
obtuse cipher
I think it's kinda weird in this fight, because the pillars are so small compared to the huge rocks falling down?
brisk island
@covert tide https://youtu.be/6lN7mvVVClE endscreen of this broken run - most important boons pinned.
obtuse cipher
How good is Aspect of Poseidon combined with Stygian Soul?
covert tide
No
It doesn’t go
You can get your bloodstones back anyway with your special so there isn’t really a benefit to Stygian
obtuse cipher
Yeah, that's why I was wondering, but it does increase cast damage, I suppose that run went all in lol
turbid arch
Poseidon + Stygian Soul is great.
The thing people forget about Stygian Soul is that it scales with additional cast stones earned through different means much much better than the regular +2 you start out with.
covert tide
I know Stygian soul is ridiculous with additional bloodstones, I run with it for everything except Poseidon
Because you can get your bloodstones back anyway, so that benefit is less relevant
stiff stone
I don't play Poseidon to get the shards back, the 50% cast damage is too juicy for me.
blazing mulch
There is 150% bonus on Spear, just sayin
covert tide
@stiff stone I agree that the cast damage is the relevant bit. Collecting the shards means you can get them back to cast more, which I think with stuff like exit wounds and flurry cast ends up being more damage than Stygian cast
stiff stone
@blazing mulch yea but that's pretty specific, while the sword you can go happy go clicky 24/7
glossy plaza
I prefer +2 more than Stygian because ruthless is the true carry anyways
sturdy zinc
Hey guys, is there a way to reset or jump back to house of hades?
I am stuck on elysium with patroclus
glossy plaza
just force close the game with task manager?
sturdy zinc
i did. but loading my savegame would pop me back at the same chamber. It is weird
covert tide
Maybe do a force shutdown on your computer?
sturdy zinc
I will try
stiff stone
Report it with F10
sturdy zinc
Already sent it. Sad because I am having so much fun but I do not want to reset my save game.
covert tide
Did restarting work?
blazing mulch
try verify files on steam/epic to check for errors
its weird that such element is somehow bugged after 1y of the game
sturdy zinc
verifying right now
sorry Verifying did not work.
I did sent the report. I just wish I could upload the screenshot here so that you guys can see
sturdy zinc
They have responded and it looks like there missing some conditional conversations. They will fix on the next patch
its weird that such element is somehow bugged after 1y of the game
@blazing mulch
obtuse cipher
Sweet, managed to get Blizzard Shot in the middle of Tartarus
fallow niche
Wow, Hydra skip is gone
That... Really makes speedrunning less impressive
Huge bummer
earnest ravine
I'm kind of surprised it lasted this long, honestly.
fallow niche
I assumed it was because the devs noted it was hard to do and a reward for putting together such a well thought out and powerful build - but I guess not
Super disappointing
It was one of the coolest things to do in the game
Especially this update, very few people have even managed it since the changes at the start
earnest ravine
it might encourage more build variety than"artemis flurry shot P.S and Meg", at least?
fallow niche
Only me and like two other people have done it this update as far as I know? The full skip I mean
@earnest ravine Artemis cast was dead at the start of this update
Like 100000% dead
They murdered it really hard
And gutted cast builds overall in the process
The new build is Artemis attack spread fire rail
And this doesn't change that at all
And meg's keepsake will continue to be used
earnest ravine
Ah, didnt realize it had gotten that much harder. I haven't been watching as many runs since nighty night dropped because life stuff.
fallow niche
Ah np man, life is important
And yeah full skip hasn't been pulled off on stream more than once as far as I know
Or at all?
Idk if Haelian even managed it since Nighty Night
earnest ravine
Still disappointed, sure, but I was trying to look on a brighter side since it WAS cool.
fallow niche
I mean, how is that bright that the cool thing is gone :v
earnest ravine
The mistake about build homogeny which you already mentioned
fallow niche
Oh build homogeny in speedrunning will never go away
earnest ravine
So tl;dr: ;-;
fallow niche
There will always be a 'best' build
Even if one build is just barely better than the rest, it will be the only one used by speedrunners because of that slight edge
When every second matters
I enjoyed the new 'best' build every update tho
The skip itself is what I'm bummed out about - and *how *they nerfed Artemis cast in particular, not the why.
They made the legendary require both tier 2 cast boons
So if you aren't using Poseidon Sword then you still need Exit Wounds to get it
And Exit Wounds is pretty bad on all other aspects
earnest ravine
THAT is a weird change
fallow niche
Yeah I know right
That is on top of all the stat nerfs too
They really wanted it dead
I'm fine with stat nerfs, but that is really weird
I'm probably more bothered by that than losing Hydra Skip honestly
Actually, definitely, Hydra Skip was a cool footnote
Whereas this dramatically changes how you build cast builds
Overall
Even bad ones
earnest ravine
None of the other legendaries have that sort of requirement, right?
fallow niche
No, none
earnest ravine
They're all one tier one and an applicable tier 2?
fallow niche
Its reminiscent of the weird nerf to Merciful End they did last update to try and stop Chaos Shield's dominance
And yeah @earnest ravine
earnest ravine
Bluh. Unfortunate, and honestly if I notice it more in my own runs I might make a feedback on it because
Idk it feels weird having one legendary gated off in a different way than all the others.
fallow niche
Yeah its really asymmetrical
Makes my OCD go wild
I'd rather the stats get nerfed into oblivion
And I love Poseidon Sword a whole ton, but I'd rather the build get killed normally than have all other cast builds worsened too
earnest ravine
Even discounting it's strength, I'm not sure how well I'd have been able to figure out that it works on an entirely different logic than all the others when I first started without googling it or something.
radiant scarab
Hey, can someone help me out a bit? I am missing one chaos boon from the fated list called 'Defiance' Does anyone know what that is or how to get it?
fallow niche
afaik its not even in the wiki yet @earnest ravine
covert tide
it’s the chaos legendary @radiant scarab
fallow niche
There are bound to be players right now who are trying to get the legendary once and will never be able to
Lmao
covert tide
That was weird
earnest ravine
Yeahh, it's... an odd choice
fallow niche
what was that tech support line lmao
covert tide
An old message buffered ahead of what I just wrote lol
fallow niche
hahahahaha
covert tide
No idea how that happened
fallow niche
@radiant scarab You need to take chaos several times in a run to get the legendary, its also pretty rare
Might wanna use that Egg
radiant scarab
thanks, I guess I'll just have to keep going and eventually I'll find it
I did some egg runs and occassionally I had 0 portals
I was quite annoyed at that...
covert tide
Buying light of ixion from wells of Charon helps too
radiant scarab
might wanna go for the well re-rolls to get those
covert tide
Yeah
radiant scarab
but I dont have the darkness yet to max it
covert tide
Or to reroll chaos too
radiant scarab
right, well, I guess I'll keep at it
there's no like hidden conditions assosciated with it, like having 1 life lost or anything like that?
I was wondering since the name is defiance - as in death defiance - whether it has anything to do with those
covert tide
It does, but you don’t have to have lost one
lament coral
+ Fixed rare cases where boss damage limits between phases could be bypassed at the start of fights
rip Hydra skip?
lament coral
wonder why they decided to fix it now
fallow niche
not sure either
they already made it much harder with the start of the update
but now its totally gone
dense locust
It always felt like an exploit to me
and all speed runs are patch specific anyway so it doesn't harm that aspect
but meg companion might need a buff
dense locust
It's my birthday today and I'm gonna get my final 32, I can feel it
Can't even use meg on half of the bosses though...
mild crag
there's minibosses too
dense locust
Sisy is best imo
The only time I wish I had meg's for a mini boss is the giant dusa head, or maybe the tiny vermin
But I do keep the healing reduction buff to no more than 25%
so i guess it just comes down to play style
lament coral
@dense locust not really, Hades has always been ran on the latest patch since it didn't break the skip
dense locust
What I am saying is that any speed runs after the fix will be understood to be in their own class as it would be likely impossible to beat the old records
Just like when infinite dashes and casts were a thing, any speed runs with those would not be compared against the others
But if one wants to compete with prefix speedruns, then yeah, they'll need to downpatch
glossy plaza
I didn't even use my companion at all in my 32 heat run because I just forgot
I rarely remember to use companions even with the new sfx they added on difficult fights
blazing mulch
Hahah it's common for players. These companions are good so we keep the uses for better moment.... But there is never better moment and we end up ending game with all of them. The some with potions, usable items etc heh
glossy plaza
nah, I just never use it because I don't like it, it breaks my flow
glossy plaza
I mean the real carry is Ruthless Dash anyways
blazing mulch
But any time I use another companion then I forget to use it
tawny ivy
the only one i remember to use is mort because it's hard to miss with him
glossy plaza
and tbh, after the Night update, the game suddenly became a whole lot easier due to 1 extra i-frame and Ruthless Dash. Not to mention more heat options so 32 heat isn't as hard as before
fallow niche
@fossil wing Does the yarn upgrade all the boons shown at the next god, just the lowest rarity one (or a random one?), or just make sure that no common boons are shown at the next god? Really esoteric question, but the yarn doesn't seem to do what it states it does and I'm not sure if what I'm running into is a bug or intended. Sorry for the ping otherwise, but I don't really know where else to ask this
glossy plaza
afaik, all boons
fallow niche
No, it doesn't seem to upgrade all boons
glossy plaza
but it does tho, when I have it, I never see one with common rarity
fallow niche
I manipulated a chamber to show a specific set of boons, reran it with the yarn, and only the common boon was upgraded
To rare
The rares were left untouched
full swift
How do you know the rares were not commons too
fallow niche
Because I knew what the chamber was going to have
tl;dr speedrunner things
I think the Yarn actually doesn't seem to work
As it says it does at least
glossy plaza
I don't trust that at all but sure I guess
full swift
Well I ran into an issue with the yarn earlier
glossy plaza
because besides the 1st chamber, nothing is that static in a run
even on the same seed, I'd know, I tried
fallow niche
You can manipulate the room RNG, just watch any speedrunner
full swift
Where if you have the dio/pos duo it doesn't work anymore at all
lament coral
they manipulate RNG for speedruns
lament coral
some is enough to see the same boons, with the same rarities
fallow niche
Tartarus you definitely can and that's what I've been doing for other runners right now
Its very precise at the start
full swift
What will you do for a speedrun without a consistent start
fallow niche
Last update they mapped out all of tartarus
full swift
Just got the athena legendary
fallow niche
That one is great, I love it
full swift
It only took me 110 runs
full swift
Some lad earlier told me you could talk to bouldy in sisyphus' room
Had to get back on and try some runs
what do you know it pops up
Though it's 3 am now
lament coral
wise
full swift
Good night or day folks I'm heading off
glossy plaza
@fallow niche iirc, what I tested was it upgrades kinda randomly-ish. E.g an elite fight boon which has minimum all rares became like 1-3 epics, depends on luck, it is certainly isn't static on that part
and the yarn isn't bound my RNG iirc, one run might get all 3 upgraded, another might get 1
could be the mirror effect boosting back then too
fallow niche
This might also be a recent bug, as funky noted it doesn't work with posiedon duo
glossy plaza
my info might be outdated too since I tested that b4 the Night update
when I tried to craft a good seed for my 32 heat run
only to then beat it 1st try on a random seed right after the patch because Ruthless Dash is broken
I mean the Duo makes all boons minimum epic quality
which is the highest it can go unless you trade out a boon
or eat that one thing from the Aspholdel's Exclamation Mark room
I have never got the Yarn after getting the Duo boon so I can't give any info on that
spring mauve
@fallow niche were your boons hermes or chaos? because those do not get upgraded at all
fallow niche
@spring mauve Artemis
spring mauve
then nevermind
lament coral
have you ever seen a common boon from Chaos or Hermes with a yarn?
spring mauve
they are considered like aspects or keepsakes
when rarity upgrade function is called on them
tardy chasm
Finally got to use exc
That was super fun
Love the aspects that help blast through RNG
high base damage and lower projectile speed was enough for me
plus I got super lucky
pretty much every boon I wanted
dense locust
world splitter does nothing to dash attack?
turbid needle
Nope.
dense locust
how about shadow slash?
turbid needle
Nope.
You take Double Edge, Super Nova, or Double Nova.
I think Breaching Slash works with Dash attacks.
dense locust
yeah i think so as well
ive been taking it because its the best option for the last 4 runs
i gotta get my sword 32 tonight dang it
World splitter isn't too bad because i can double dash attack through an enemy and then turn around and world splitter their back
So the heat dependent portals can be where your god's keepsake boon shows up. Does taking a different boon use up the keepsake or it will keep providing me that god's boon when its possible until I take it?
turbid needle
Until you take it.
full swift
Wait shadow slash doesn't proc on your dash strike
stable onyx
i just got both legendary boon from chaos and found a fishing point in there aswell lol
Ultra RNG
earnest ravine
yoooooo
stable fossil
I can't wait to finish 16 and 32 heat on Hestia Rail so I can swap to Demeter Punch
so much damage potential on the big punchies
rocky sage
i dont see the potential on the gun aspects
sullen valley
Can you only have 2 Chaos Boons at a time?
stable fossil
Hestia rail is very obvious, base 150 damage gets buffed to 300 with backstab and bloodstone boosts
sullen valley
yeesh, that's gotta hurt
stable fossil
I've had 3 at once
earnest ravine
You can have as many as you can find Chaos gates.
sullen valley
Ah, neat.
stable fossil
My highest damage number ever outside of a summon was 1890 crit with hestia rail
stable fossil
the trick with hestia is to shoot reload shoot with dashes in between
Zag Rail is for that hangover/frosty goodness
Eris Rail is that but also use your freaking special
stable fossil
nah, shoot it at an enemy then run underneath it
stable fossil
Hestia is much easier to use
I haven't done the actual math, but I am told Hestia is higher dps
I don't know what the number are on maxed Eris
you could probably get similar damage numbers if the max bonus is 50% increased damage
sly sonnet
Eris pads her chest
stable fossil
the rail has a relatively high rate of fire so in the time it takes hestia to reload eris could probably get 4-6 shots of which could equal the damage
sly sonnet
Wonder if anybody will get that
stable fossil
I did
rocky sage
eris goes up to 60
clear dome
10]
stable fossil
k
rocky sage
MATH TIME
stable fossil
blood stone + Backstab = 20
...
32 per shot?
get the boost throw a cast and backstab
should be 32 damage
if I calc'd that correctly
32 per shot isn't bad
stable fossil
you want Aphrodite Attack or Artemis Attack, one is the highest base damage boost in the game and the other gives you the big crit numbers
oooooh or just grab Aphro Attack and Arty Dash
Then you get the REALLY BIG crit numbers
Reload Dash Shoot = Big Critty
stable fossil
You can force it if you try hard enough lol
Grab the Rose and Reroll for god boons
hushed ledge
I need to start taking aphro more
stable fossil
then grab Arty keepsake and reroll for dash crit
pray to the gods
Step 4: Big Crit
I don't recommend trying to force builds though
rocky sage
anything u get from gifting bouldy?
earnest ravine
Random boon for that run.
sullen valley
I...
sly sonnet
You get a passive buff
sullen valley
I think reducing my HP to 14 via a Chaos Curse was not the greatest idea
sly sonnet
to money or darkness , not sure if something else aswell
earnest ravine
It can be gold gain, damage reduction, move speed, damage boost to attack or cast, or a fake boon thaat does nothing.
And the amount is also randomized.
sly sonnet
How do I unlock the 10 diamond contract for sysiphus
sullen valley
hoh thank god I got some Darkness, I have 19 HP now
I just survived a bunch of armored witches
also I'm playing with Charon
...I mean Chiron.
rocky sage
when u gift a god before taking its boon does it have any effect?
sullen valley
I really got punked by a crystal laser
GOSH I HAVE HEALTH AGAIN
"oooh look a chaos gate" puts my health bar down to like...4, maybe
I am
the CEO of good gambling decisions
"Ah, yes, another chaos gate."
earnest ravine
How slow are you feeling, friend
earnest ravine
...Goodness
earnest ravine
I believe in you
And especially because it'll wear off before the boss!
Totally worth it
sullen valley
It's ok I'm only just in asphodel
and uh
do I WANT the Barge of Death or the Power Couple with this speed?
oh no it's the barge of death
earnest ravine
The barge is easier, imo, but that's your call.
The traps make it easier since it can one shot the blue thingys and the elites aren;t too bad.
full swift
As long as you don't have MM on you should be fine
sullen valley
I was just thinking of "65 max health. 1% movement. Lots of things to keep track of if I get bloodless."
thankfully it was just bombers.
Also what's MM again?
earnest ravine
40% Overtime with Middle Management almost assures that megagorgon is going to chop off a DD or two.
rip in rest
earnest ravine
At least, it used to? I haven't gotten that combo in a while
yeaaah, i forget the name of the bane of my existance
it doesn't deserve for me to remember it
sullen valley
Dude...Relentless Volley, Deadly Flourish, Chiron, and Chaos Flourish are such good...
MMMH!!! 💕
earnest ravine
that's SO much damage
full swift
If you get Zeus special on Chiron
sullen valley
...
full swift
Chiron aspect is so fun to play
sullen valley
What does Zeus special do again? Just chain bolt?
earnest ravine
Additional lightning damage on the target per hit.
You can get upgrades to make it bounce or hit twice though
earnest ravine
100 damage if you're feeling really spicy and get poms on it
Zeus scales really hilariously
clear dome
demeter is demented
hushed ledge
demeter is so much fun
earnest ravine
Oh no, what happened?
sullen valley
The enemy that's only killed me like
What, the third time? Second time?
It's Lernie.
And I had such good damage output too
earnest ravine
D:
full swift
Normal Lernie or EM Lernie?
earnest ravine
They were answeing
full swift
oh
earnest ravine
And they have iit set to 3 in the other screenshots of the boon screen
earnest ravine
it's a common question here, was probably automatic. I've seen you have to answer it a lot >.>
clear dome
what is em
earnest ravine
PLS
clear dome
ngl em furies are hard
clear dome
no
sullen valley
Theseus is something...
clear dome
im just on 5 heat
sullen valley
my only disappointment is that Hades doesn't get some EM.
earnest ravine
Theseus sure is SOMETHING and that something is Hilarious
sullen valley
Imagine him being able to summon little minibosses instead of tougher versions of enemies.
it is though
also terrifying with that laugh
earnest ravine
As is he can already summon a gorgon and the soulcatcher boss from Elysium so that's already a thing that CAN happen
full swift
EM Hades just picks up a random weapon you're not using
sullen valley
Pfheh
earnest ravine
i've seen some things and those things usually equal a full boosted call so I can avoid dealing with it
sullen valley
I mean like...
clear dome
hades with the wep of guan yu
sullen valley
a miniature version of one of the zones' bosses.
Or, minor-ish version.
A fury that only uses one attack
full swift
"Well then I suppose its my job to gun you down right here then"
clear dome
"You thief"
full swift
Hades but his ||spin attack|| is him wooping you with a hydra head
obtuse cipher
Hades in the chariot
full swift
HAHAHA
sullen valley
No
earnest ravine
YES
sullen valley
Pft
full swift
EM hydra giving his last stage a chariot
sullen valley
I want EM Hades =^=
obtuse cipher
Pfff I'll just crystal beam him to death then
obtuse cipher
oops
sullen valley
jeez
obtuse cipher
just invert the fight, invulnerable when visible
full swift
EM Hades, his cast is him chucking a flamewheel at you
Also FO chariots are really redefining vehicular manslaughter
sullen valley
What does Arthur's Aura do specifically?
clear dome
defend
earnest ravine
Slows projectiles and enemies, plus gives you damage reduction when you're in it.
mild crag
Also your attacks cannot be interrupted while you're within it
earnest ravine
And that slow is no joke, it makes practically every projectile stand still. Even the Styx poison darts slow to the point where they're normal projectile speed.
mild crag
Don't get hit stunned out of them
obtuse cipher
If I recall correctly it negates trap/magma damage, as well?
earnest ravine
Traps yeah. Unsure about magma.
mild crag
I know it disables spikes traps for example
I never actually tried walking into magma with it
obtuse cipher
Pretty sure I've seen that in a stream two days ago
timid delta
does anyone have any tips for how to beat tisiphone or alecto? im stuck in the early part of the game and they keep wiping me out 😦
clear dome
remember hypnos's advice: can you like, uh, move out of the way or something
timid delta
i will do my best 🤘🏽😞🤘🏽
full swift
Tisiphone is vulnerable after her dash so you can always get a few hits in
She'll always try to whip you first and then dash
earnest ravine
If you're feeling a little confident, you can bait Alecto into jumping onto the spikes with her charges.
It does pretty substantial damage and she has a tendency to try and builld rage after a charge for more extra hits.
full swift
Alecto is really just slap her until she gets angery and starts firing projectiles
That's a good time to try and poke from some distance
Most importantly, if you have confidence in your damage output try to play more aggressive
You can prepare a big attack after they go invulnerable
timid delta
a big attack? like just trying to get a lot of hits in one go?
sullen valley
Hm...what's your guys for trying to get hits in during any of their "projectile flourish" attacks
earnest ravine
Also, if they're ever just seemingly standing still staring at you, that means they're winding up a dashing charge attack in your direction, so you can predict that and get out of the way of their follow up hits (REALLY handy for handling Tisiphone easily).
hushed ledge
yeah imo furies are there to teach you to bait and punish
which is a really important thing to understand
sometimes its not your turn in bossfights
hushed ledge
I think the biggest improvement for me was actively playing paitently
Bosses don't scale
Except for alecto
But most bosses don't do more damage at 3 minutes than at 1 minute
karmic ginkgo
i still cant figure out how to get that new sword
earnest ravine
CHeck the spoilers channel pins! The devs were nice and put it right there.
obtuse cipher
I never really paid attention to it, but is it intentional that Chaos bonuses apply after the room the curse is lifted not within the room itself?
opal bay
curse is taken off right as you finish the room.
unless it is a curse that prevents you from seeing what's the next room is
obtuse cipher
Yeah, I mean the curse is being lifted when you killed the last enemy, in my case I received a +X% coin boon.
The chamber reward is coin
I still receive 100 coin, though
timid delta
thank you for the advice everyone i beat tisiphone and made it all the way to elysium for the first time!!! 😭😭😭
tranquil gorge
Finished my first run with the Aspect of Arthur.
Nice aspect. Little slow though XP
quiet arrow
(a little late, but arthur aspect DOES disable magma)
olive badge
I find it weird that Hades aspect doesn't boost the spin attack and just the basic attack
shouldn't attack buff normally affect your charged strike too?
solid cairn
Spread shot is so fun
@tranquil gorge you really want Hermes attack with that weapon
obtuse cipher
I didn't play any favourites at all 
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267722791032193027/692412838966329434/unknown.png
copper lotus
I am wondering about the exact mechanics of the damage immunity that you sometimes get when taking damage
mental pollen
Boum head shot https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/13/f0bm.jpg
tidal thorn
Holy...Zues.
zinc oasis
Boum head shot https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/13/f0bm.jpg
@mental pollen wtf man
turbid needle
Hestia's got the second-highest base damage in the game (excluding Doom and Casts with a dozen Poms).
tepid ridge
@copper lotus I believe that invincibility procs when Zagreus takes damage beyond a certain threshold (I would think it's based on a percentage of max health but idk for sure) and Hell mode removes the function entirely if I've been told correctly.
lament coral
oh bow, why must you be so terrible
turbid needle
It's not, you've just been crutching Aegis too long.
lament coral
Oh? It must be somewhere under those fists I've been using for the last 19 runs.
turbid needle
I've spent the vast majority of the last few weeks using the Fists, doesn't mean I haven't used the sword and rail way more.
lament coral
neither does my use of fists make the bow any better
I suppose using Zag bow was the mistake
garbage hammers, common boons
it's a recipe for disaster
turbid needle
Well, what's more likely, that every weapon is balanced enough to clear 32 Heat, or that you've stumbled upon a secret no one else has?
lament coral
do you think the devs have beaten 32 with every aspect with common boons?
turbid needle
No, but you couldn't beat 32 Heat with Chaos Aegis with common boons.
lament coral
Huh?
turbid needle
And the ability to build a balanced game and execute the game's structure as a player are two very different talents.
No one is beating 32 Heat with Common boons.
lament coral
well good, because Zag bow failed me at 24
turbid needle
If you got bad hammers and common boons, every weapon would have failed you.
lament coral
except for Chaos Shield, that is
turbid needle
No, not even Chaos.
You show me a 32 Heat run with common boons and i'll change my tune.
But I've tried to muscle through with better weapons and it didn't work.
lament coral
does it count if I found rarity upgrades along the way?
turbid needle
No.
turbid needle
Not without proper spawns.
lament coral
if I managed to do it with a blue Dio special and no other statuses, so can you!
granted, it was lvl 11 by Hades, but still
turbid needle
Drunken Flourish is ridiculously good.
lament coral
no, CS is ridiculously good
turbid needle
It's a top 5 Aspect, sure.
full swift
What is so good about yeeting a bunch of shields
It feels less consistent than the Zeus aspect
turbid needle
Spreading Doom/Hangover is really good.
Being able to rapidly poison everything in the room mows through crowds and is a good boss killer on its own.
full swift
But that's something you can do with Zeus aspect too
turbid needle
Not as rapidly.
full swift
Yea fair
turbid needle
I like Zeus Aspect with Artemis and Zeus.
full swift
For plain aoe the chaos aspect would be better
turbid needle
Zeus is a better boss killer.
full swift
But zeus aspect feels better to use in bossfights and such
Do doom effects stack?
Can you have like 400 damage floating above an enemy
turbid needle
I don't think so, but Doom scales ridiculously well with Poms.
Between PS/FF, a few Poms, and maybe Impending Doom, it's very possible to have it break 500.
turbid needle
I don't mess with Doom on Chiron.
unkempt pagoda
you could try to get the doom stacking boon, if you go with special
turbid needle
Dire Misfortune is gimmicky.
unkempt pagoda
i think chiron special is where it shines the most
stiff stone
That's an interesting build idea
does each arrow of the special apply doom if they each hit the same foe?
dusk moss
Going to put this in gameplay discussion before Feedback since kind of open-ended. Background: newish player (~50 runs, ~20 wins), play a lot of roguelikes, game designer by day job.
It feels like my ability to target a certain legendary or duo is very high. e.g. all it takes is any Ares drop in Tartarus for me to feel like "okay, Hunting Blades win coming up" and then have a very good chance to execute on that. This isn't about difficulty--I'm sure that on higher heat I'd find more ways to fail--but about predictability. Important context is using Olympian Legacy and Fated Persuasion, which I understand are pretty new, so maybe a lot of people have habits/impression that aren't based on always playing with them.
I think this is a hard problem because making it harder to pull off (such as by nerfing those two talents) doesn't necessarily help. It feels a lot like the success of a run is based heavily on your ability to go tall on a certain build or abilty. A huge part of getting better at Hades (like any roguelike) is seeing the possibilities once you see the start of your run take shape--but in Hades, that often looks like "now I want X/Y/Z specific boons to make this ideal." You see this a lot in stream/videos, especially without Fated Persuasion--someone opening a boon going "hope I see X" or rerolling with Fated Authority to hope to roll for a specific boon Y.
Thinking about this more, because it's a lot of the best interactions are linear--they amplify power based on how much you invest in a particular thing (get a Zeus Tier 1, then get Jolted, then get something like Sea Storm or Cold Fusion). And once you start down that path, you have much less use for dipping into a different path. While there's some utility in things like Athena dash, most of the time a Tier 1 that's off your main build will be doing very little for you. A related problem is that strong synergies between boons and weapon aspects are fraught because you choose one before the run starts.
A big thing that could take this from "a great game" to "one that never gets old" (for me) is broadening the texture of what I might want in my build, based on what I already have. A speculation on an important way to accomplish that is making it more beneficial to diversify into multiple elements.
turbid needle
Unless you get Rush Kick, only use it with your Dash-Upper.
rocky sage
i mean u can get neither in a arun
turbid needle
If you get Explosive Upper, even if you've picked up Rush Kick, only use the charge on your Dash-Upper.
unkempt pagoda
you put aphro on attack, artemis on special, and get heart rend
turbid needle
Talos is good, but Demeter is kind of busted with crits right now.
unkempt pagoda
i don't like talos that much but it can be good
turbid needle
You can make Blade Rifts way too complicated but really fun with Talos.
unkempt pagoda
athena cast is slow enough where you can cast it then pull enemies into it, which is great fun
rocky sage
or demeter
stiff stone
@dusk moss You kinda make it sound like there is one possible outcome for any one run once you're out of Tartarus which is not really the case. You don't have to, or always want to, go for any one duo/legendary because you might not get it, despite your best efforts.
unkempt pagoda
demeter
turbid needle
Demeter.
rocky sage
and hera bow ??
turbid needle
Hera is good.
unkempt pagoda
guan yu had a heavy hand of nerfs recently
you don't have to level hera, just unlock it
turbid needle
I never terrain cheesed that much with Guan Yu.
unkempt pagoda
all of its power comes right at the gate, the rest is minor convenience
rocky sage
wait so u said what hammer to take on demeter
covert tide
But I mess it up every time now
rocky sage
like priorities
dusk moss
@stiff stone It's all degrees--I'm saying, the likelihood is very high, and so is the power payoff
turbid needle
I find my ability to even get the gods I want neutered pretty badly with Fated Persuasion.
unkempt pagoda
rush kick on demeter
turbid needle
Or Explosive Upper.
unkempt pagoda
long knuckle can also make it easier to charge up your special
turbid needle
Long Knuckle is generally Malphon's best Hammer.
unkempt pagoda
though long knuckle has this weird hitbox thing where it can't hit really close enemies
turbid needle
Only on Talos Special/Cast spam would you want something else.
rocky sage
but u run demeter u want the special ones no ?
turbid needle
You still have to use your Attack to charge the Special.
And Long Knuckle's range not only let you hit multiple enemies at once (which I'm 99% sure counts as a hit for every enemy), it lets you attack enemies safely, including Flamewheels.
rocky sage
well ye
turbid needle
Ideal Demeter is Long Knuckle and Explosive Upper.
turbid needle
Rush is good, and if you can't get EU then it's definitely the hammer to take.
But Explosive Upper makes your Special hit all around you, so you can do things like dash into a Nemean Chariot Death Squad and instantly kill all of them.
stiff stone
@dusk moss Yes, the likelihood is there, but you don't have to chase it? I mean, there are so many builds you could do, that limiting yourself to, "Ok, got ares cast, time to go for hunting blades" is a bit dull. I got about 300 hours in an still find new builds, variety in gameplay. Sure, Duos and Legendaries make the game easier, to some degree, but they also spice things up, and save builds that would otherwise fail. It's part of the charm of the game for me.
dusk moss
I like that too--a lot of what I suspect is that getting a particular legendary/duo just became dramatically easier with the new talents, and maybe will become too attractive
stiff stone
Sure, that could be the case, but I think this is balanced by the fact that you are sacrificing boon rarity.
So you are much less likely to get ~~epics ~~rares if you choose to use the legendary/duo option.
turbid needle
That's Rare.
unkempt pagoda
isn't it rares?
stiff stone
w/e the case
dusk moss
which does matter--maybe I should try playing with it more. But getting a lot of epics and a good chance at legendaries feels like it really does a lot to mitigate the loss of rares
stiff stone
True, but those epics might not be in the progression tree for the said duo/legendary
dusk moss
It happens, but often isn't a huge hindrance to the build to take a white
stiff stone
But, please, post your thoughts in feedback, I'm curious about how others feel regarding this.
dusk moss
Keepsakes/Chaos/Yarns/Eurydice do a lot to make rarity not a problem
I'm curious if this all just sounds like an odd playstyle to people who have been playing for months with rare chance and Fated Authority
stiff stone
It all depends on what heat you're playing, but yea
dusk moss
But I really naturally fell into this, learning now
stiff stone
I haven't noticed anything odd about it, nothing run breaking anyway, but maybe that's just me.
Also, getting duos/legendaries is not really straightforward if you are not aware of the tier system and of the prereqs required for each.
dusk moss
(That's not a good thing, from perspective of the game as a whole though)
It's an invisible barrier to new players
stiff stone
I can see that yea, and I advocated for some sort of system indicating tiers/prereqs before, but I feel the intent is for us to discover how they work and what not.
hushed ledge
i just realised that twin shot is just worse than perfect shot
tidal thorn
Eh. Twin is awesome.
turbid needle
Whatever damage you did without Perfect Shot, Twin doubles.
turbid needle
It adds 100% of your base damage.
hushed ledge
that's not at all clear
turbid needle
It's how almost all percentage bonuses work in this game.
tidal thorn
Does Twin Shot double the damage for Fiery Presence on undamaged enemies?
hushed ledge
huh
turbid needle
Ooh, that's a good question.
lament coral
maybe if both shots hit at the same time
fallow niche
@turbid needle Its really funny that in order to get Artemis Legendary for a Hunting Blades build you need to get EXIT WOUNDS
turbid needle
You should check feedback, I've got a post about it.
fallow niche
ooh
rocky sage
i saw some talk earlier about unlocking the sys keepsake
how do u get to the contract
ive been saving diamonds and amb
hasty oracle
What's a good build/boons for the malphon?
turbid needle
What Aspect?
hasty oracle
I just unlocked Demeter. I heard that aspect has some crazy builds.
turbid needle
Artemis Special, get Weak in their somewhere so you can spawn Heart Rend.
Explosive Upper does the most damage, Long Knuckle is a lot of safety and CC.
turbid needle
Ares doesn't really mesh with any of Malphon's moves, but Blade Rifts are pretty good on Talos.
40% damage bonus at level 5 and you can use the pull to keep enemies in rifts longer.
hasty oracle
I see. How about Demeter? I'm definitely gonna try Artemis. She's great and I've been using her boons lol
lament coral
Demeter doesn't really do anything for the Dem fist
turbid needle
Demeter Attack will shine if you get Arctic Blast.
hasty oracle
Still a noob at this game but I love it!
turbid needle
Long Knuckle and Demeter attack will help with CC, too.
lament coral
Zag and Talos fists could use Dem attack with the blast
also, consider Athena dash as a great safety option
alternatively, Artemis dash for increase dash attack and synergy with dash attack finishes hammer
or just get a status dash for Privileged Status
turbid needle
Dash attack modifiers boost the Dash Special.
turbid needle
And yet if you use the move in-game it will boost the damage.
covert tide
I like demeter attack on fists even if I don’t get blast
lament coral
odd that
hasty oracle
I'm gonna try out all these 😁
Thanks guys! Best thing about this game is there are so many different builds.
worthy spire
hey guys, new player here...is it normal that i find this game like 10x times harder than the original dark souls?
hushed ledge
just practice!
hasty oracle
Lol yeah. I noticed that too on my first few runs but as you keep playing and once you learn the system everything just clicks. Next thing you know you already finished a run lol
If you die it's not really a waste because you get something from it
worthy spire
i got up to elysium only once
hushed ledge
There's definitely some concepts that help you improve, but imo the most important thing at first is just playing a lot
worthy spire
i cant imagine the elite encounters here
hushed ledge
getting the mirror upgrades is super important and really helps
worthy spire
oh that
i have like 500 darkness stockpiled cause i didnt wanna do the death defied ones
worthy spire
i felt like it defeated the purpose of hell mode
hushed ledge
those are massive
hasty oracle
@hushed ledge I totally agree!
worthy spire
look, one day my will shall break and ill give in
covert tide
You need death defiances
rancid shore
you need those if you want to progress in hell mode lmao
worthy spire
oh im still base heat 5
covert tide
It is not cheating, it’s an intended mechanic
worthy spire
ik lol 😛
covert tide
Hell mode is already harder than normal without self-handicapping
Also maybe start on normal??? Lol
worthy spire
they talked about a pure experience
limpid token
It's okay to struggle. I think the best part of Hades is that dying doesn't really make you lose anything and the game certainly doesn't punish you for dying. You get to go back to the House and gift ambrosia to people or pet your dog (!) and advance storylines with interesting characters. You may never have that combination of boons ever again, but if you died that run, it probably means it wasn't good enough! /Hypnos vc
hushed ledge
and you can always scale heat until you get it to be hard
rancid shore
Using your own analogy, this is like playing dark souls without using the estus/campfires at all
covert tide
You can still experience it after you use normal while you’re still learning
Normal can also still be very difficult if you bump up the heat
worthy spire
i guess the no iframes part is the really punishing part
rancid shore
The dash has iframes
worthy spire
getting hit by a triple bomb attack hurts a lot
yeah i meant to say the no iframes on getting hit part
hushed ledge
yeah i'd recommend not starting with hell mode
worthy spire
thank goodness i took the double dash already
smoky oasis
I think zeus needs a buff
worthy spire
wdym, zeus IS buff
hushed ledge
zeus just feels not good
smoky oasis
yea I skipped him most of the time
worthy spire
jokes aside though i personally found zeus allright for clearing rooms
hushed ledge
like it's still worth taking over nothing
worthy spire
against the boss thats another story
hushed ledge
clearing rooms usually isn't hard
worthy spire
i guess jolt could be something vs boss
rancid shore
but zeus is good
worthy spire
yeah thing about bosses is the MASSIVE health pool
rancid shore
It's better on frequently hitting weapons than the slower ones
worthy spire
i can take attacks upon attacks over a shorter timeframe, but i still dont have all day
cough rail cough
hushed ledge
i've never been able to tell, do the bolts hit the inital enemy?
smoky oasis
I pick it on rail but still it doesn't much compare to dio
worthy spire
im pretty sure the extra damage on them does if its like on a cast
hushed ledge
ye but on attacks and such
worthy spire
on the attack i dont think so
rancid shore
the thing with dio is it doesn't get any poison upgrades that actually help it be better
covert tide
Zeus on fists is great
rancid shore
it's good but it can't get as good as zeus
worthy spire
i like how poison stacks
hushed ledge
tbh i'm a fan of dio because it makes activating double status easy
and thats a big boost
smoky oasis
DIO + amphrodite/ares best combo
covert tide
And yes, having an easy second status effect makes a huge difference
rancid shore
that's a duo that adds stacks but doesn't actually affect the poison
covert tide
Being able to stack it higher affects the poison damage
rancid shore
well, obviously
covert tide
It essentially boosts your damage by a factor of 8/5ths
rancid shore
but it has no meaningful change like poseidon, zeus, or ares for instance
smoky oasis
the few runs I have picked up zeus I struggle with DPS so much
rancid shore
meaningful mechanical change*
hushed ledge
yeah zeus really leaves me hurting for dps
covert tide
That’s because Poseidon and zeus’s make you work harder for gaining a status effect from them
smoky oasis
usually I rely a lot on status curse
hushed ledge
one of my most picked zeus boons is the revenge one because i just don't want it taking up any other slots lmao
covert tide
The dio one is built in in one boon, I see it as an advantage, not a disadvantage
hushed ledge
chaos is really strong
worthy spire
i once got to 2 max hp for a few rooms
from an "epic" curse
cant really remember what it did
smoky oasis
I remember my first time playing the game. I got chaos just a few rooms before Meg. There was an epic boon that drains you till 1 hp but I didn't notice and pick it anyways
worthy spire
oof
smoky oasis
That moment when you face Meg with 1 hp and no DD
hushed ledge
meg is probably the best fury to face in that situation tbf
worthy spire
wait, do you mean meg or is "mag" another boss
smoky oasis
Meg
hushed ledge
she's not chaotic
rancid shore
I wasn't saying that was a disadvantage though?
worthy spire
would have been a bigger oof if it was allecto
rancid shore
I was saying that Zeus's boons can make it better than dio
worthy spire
man once they started appearing it was right when i was starting to get good runs and suddenly i had to learn new patters for floor 1
game has a mind of its own, its official
covert tide
@rancid shore I understand, I’m just saying that actually seems like a downside to Zeus that you need a second boon to get a status effect out of it
hushed ledge
tbh i really enjoy the fact that there's different furies
worthy spire
me too, more bosses is better ofc
smoky oasis
@rancid shore it can be made better but on very specific circumstances, on very specific weapons
most of the time dio is just straight up superior
worthy spire
but not that particular instance, i mean, at least come trash me during my bad runs, not this
rancid shore
That's how the game is balanced though
You can either play it safe or try to go for a better build. Of course some of them are better out the gate than others
worthy spire
oh and its funny how first time i saw allecto i beat her with a stupidly strong poison rail, without realizing how tough she actually is
smoky oasis
Right now it doesn't feel good to play though. Maybe they should change the cast
Although I don't like poisedon, I love his cast
Zeus cast? meh
rancid shore
The cast is bad, yeah
hushed ledge
pos cast is fantastic
smoky oasis
best is in styx
worthy spire
o i havent gotten there yet
worthy spire
is it after elysium?
smoky oasis
yea
worthy spire
if theres another floor thats freakin crazy
wow
i also cant imagine what torture it would be to speedrun this
so much tech out the door
also its supergiant so there are probably few glitches to abuse 😛
smoky oasis
have you gotten 3 DD from the mirror?
worthy spire
me?
smoky oasis
yea
worthy spire
is dd death defied?
smoky oasis
yes
worthy spire
currently im at 0
i wanna unlock it last
only if i decide im giving up
it feels like it makes it less of a roguelite idk
theres plenty of max hps around
(i still suck if anything)
rancid shore
You're really just making your life harder by doing that. It's way easier to learn when you feel like you have a safety net, but if you insist, you do you, my dude.
covert tide
Nobody does a zero-DD challenge. Some people try with no darkness (on normal) because you get some unique dialogue with Meg, but that’s it
There’s already little achievements you can get for beating the final boss without taking a hit (during that encounter)
So you’d be rewarded for being good in that way without actually needing to run with 0 DDs
worthy spire
oh by the way
smoky oasis
lol I thought I was a masochist for deleting normal mode and start on hell mode. And there's you, playing without DD. xD
that's like next level masochism
worthy spire
also lol, i thought (not sure) i saw your name further up the message history talking about the game being easy at 80 heat and thought to myself "wow i guess the discord features some pros"
maybe im tripping
smoky oasis
maximum now is like 60
worthy spire
then im almost surely trippin
covert tide
57 on normal, 58 hell, I think
worthy spire
or maybe an old steam post was circulating in my head
lament coral
that's a possibility
unkempt pagoda
200 heat run when
lament coral
the heat system used to be different, with bigger numbers
covert tide
It used to go up indefinitely but it was a completely different system
worthy spire
...combined with my hate for a character named "techies" in an all-too-familiar moba LuL
so i had this question
lament coral
kaBOOM
worthy spire
wasnt there a pact condition called routine inspection or smth
lament coral
there is
covert tide
Yes
worthy spire
i cant see it
covert tide
It disables some mirror talents
hushed ledge
presumably you need mirror talents to be able to disable them
covert tide
I mean you might as well, if you don’t have that much darkness anyway
It’s free heat, but beat it on 5 first
worthy spire
yeah ill definitely try on 5 at first
theres NO way in hell im turning that stuff up
before beating the final boss
worthy spire
lul
now ive switched to smite though so whether its this or hades, im surrounded by gods either way 😛
dusk moss
Weapon unlock costs (in terms of Titan Blood) at 5/15/16/15, for each of the aspects?
So once they're all in, we're looking at wanting 306 Blood?
harsh hull
covert tide
They changed the prereqs
I believe you need dual shot or exit wounds first
And before exit wounds you need true shot (or dual shot itself), before dual shot you need any tier 1 Artemis other than pressure points
sullen valley
I hate how my computer starts to heat up around Asphodel and slow my game.
unkempt pagoda
i think everything starts to heat up around asphodel
quiet arrow
does anyone else have difficulty with the gorgon + crusher middle management encounter
covert tide
Yes
I take a lot of damage during that fight lol
And with forced overtime up to max it can end a run for me
Unless I have a slowing effect or a deflect
quiet arrow
i think the teleporting gorgon makes it bonkers
to have to run after the gorgon and avoid the crusher
orz
covert tide
Every time I pick an elite boon room in asphodel I pray it’s the boat
quiet arrow
honestly
covert tide
But I can do it, it’s just rough
It’s not impossible
@sullen valley what did you expect? it’s full of lava
covert tide
I guess that depends on whether you think the riven phlegathon is under the world’s crust
Or if it counts as the “surface” (can still be in underground caves, I think)
sullen valley
Take that discussion up on the Cthonic gods and the devs, heh
covert tide
Also I’m pretty sure the game itself calls it Lava 😉 but I won’t belabor the point
unkempt pagoda
all references to lava were changed to magma a few patches ago
livid tundra
so i saw on the wiki the last weapon is gonna be a pair of gauntlets and there's even a bunch of info on them but they're not in the current patch, do they come in June?
earnest ravine
They are in current patch!