And that's not even the point of me bringing that up
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
Don't be pretentious now
@versed ibex Yeah its really hard to do, but its exciting when you can do it
Allows for a more standardized experience, at least in Tartarus
opal bay
speedruns are great
versed ibex
Speedruns in general are so fun! I'm really hoping that Hades gets into one of the big marathons once it's out of EA š
opal bay
100% speedrun when. 
opal bay
I imagine that would be indeed, a hell of a time to beat.
versed ibex
I watched a "new save" speedrun yesterday, and that was exciting! I did wonder on the strategy of when to die so you can get mirror upgrades and get new weapons and such
spring mauve
new save speedrun but you are not allowed to die
must finish it with the athena boons
opal bay
I remember my friend did a new save recently
since he hasn't played in a while
got to Elysium on a second try.
versed ibex
Has anybody recorded a full first-run escape? I saw a clip on youtube that was just the final boss, but it didn't show anything leading up to that
spring mauve
I feel like first-run significant progress should have more story/dialogue ramifications
since it proves hades wrong
his condescension only really makes sense if it took you a long time to get further
solid cairn
@fallow niche have you attempted a fresh-file%
spring mauve
which... is the typical player's experience
solid cairn
Start from a fresh file and time ends when you beat the game for the first time
The routing would be very interesting
spring mauve
start from a fresh file on hell mode and time ends when you unlock max heat and then complete the game on max heat
you have to win the first attempt
solid cairn
At what point is grinding for darkness slower than trying to win with what you have
kind cloud
lol at magic_gonads trolling
solid cairn
Fresh file% is something I saw on YT and it seemed interesting
Is it feasible to beat 0 heat on the first run
kind cloud
bascially when you try to grind for fated authority @solid cairn
everything else is worth grinding for
there's diminishing returns on fated authority
kind cloud
like...once you get to 4 or 5, just take the keys when you're short on rerolls
versed ibex
I don't even need keys themselves but I'm going to them for the rerolls and it makes me wish I could trade keys for gems on the regular.
solid cairn
People have beaten dead cells first run so people can probs do it with hades
Gems are almost never worth it anymore
Now we have fishing
So going for the room reward is almost useless
versed ibex
look I just want my house to look pretty š
spring mauve
isn't beating dead cells first run kinda not really beating dead cells?
solid cairn
The coins are way worse than a reroll, HP up, or random Pom
I think you should get more gems and the additional reward should be changed
kind cloud
@versed ibex then prepare to grind like hell...pun intended?!?!?
versed ibex
grinding for gems is my least favorite thing about this game
kind cloud
yep
solid cairn
@spring mauve well, defeating ||hand of the king|| on the first run
versed ibex
either make things cost less or up the amount of gems you can get :/ even with the fish it's like "hope you got lucky with the fish RNG... and also haha, you get a key this time instead of more gems!"
chef, pls. I don't need keys
spring mauve
maybe beating dead cells in exactly how many runs it takes to get every boss cell and then one with all boss cells
solid cairn
20 coins is not worth
And the amount of room reward gems you get is very low honestly
Fishing gives you so much more
spring mauve
oh for some reason I thought you meant diamonds not gemstones
versed ibex
I don't even want nectar. Only gems.
kind cloud
grinding for gem stones gets a lot easier once you upgrade infernal troves twice and get poseidon boons but those are not actually dedicated to necessarily helping your run. it's like a game within a g ame.
solid cairn
Nectar gives you a level up boon
versed ibex
from the chef, I mean
I can get all the other stuff easily enoug when running through the game, but I was excited to get gem rewards from the chef as a dedicated means of farming gems and then he trolls me with other rewards
kind cloud
true but nectar helps you get diamonds which helps you unlock some of the snazzier interior decorations.
like disco ball for instance
versed ibex
I've already gotten all of those. š all that's left is some music unlocks, but meh, it's not like I'm listening to most of those tracks anyway
kind cloud
so what do you have remaining? rugs? ovens?
versed ibex
rugs, paintings, pillars, the statues...
rancid shore
The fishing rewards aren't even random
You get gems in Styx and Tartarus and other rewards in the other biomes
versed ibex
anyway, this would all be solved if the exchange broker would just have a regular exchange of keys to gems
spring mauve
just start a thneed business to force the broker into offering that trade out of desperation
solid cairn
I have to update the aspect tier list thing
fallow niche
@solid cairn no but Haelian is right now
spring mauve
here's my tier list:
- 16:9
- 4:3
- 1:1
- 21:9
spring mauve
yes
fallow niche
zeus shield is definitely not S
solid cairn
I know
fallow niche
nemesis is also definitely S š
solid cairn
where did that come from
opal bay
I will say
solid cairn
why was zeus shield in S
opal bay
Hades Spear is definitely D or below.
fallow niche
I don't know, you posted it 
solid cairn
when I click it, the list is blank
solid cairn
probs second worst
fallow niche
The only bad aspect is probably Zag Sword
solid cairn
let's rank them based on fashion
fallow niche
okay then zeus shield might be up there even if its tacky
lmao
I like the way it looks
solid cairn
Zagreus sword gets a B or C
errant narwhal
im about to rank them based on fashion, because i dont play enough to do a proper tierlist lol
fallow niche
do it alma!
fallow niche
Hestia is sexy, def S tier
solid cairn
hmm nemesis
fallow niche
great looking aspect
errant narwhal
im a simple player....... i choose zagreus aspect.... its all i know
fallow niche
As long as you're having fun 
@errant narwhal
solid cairn
ok moving onto the spears
fallow niche
I just talk about powerlevels of weapons because I like powerful builds
Doing crazy stuff is always really really fun for me
solid cairn
not a fan of zagreus spear
solid cairn
probs gonna give it a C or D
solid cairn
I'm gonna be generous and give zag spear a C
fallow niche
an X 
solid cairn
X tier
fallow niche
lmao
fallow niche
its second best spear look
solid cairn
horseshoe shape is weird
fallow niche
Guan Yu looks the best of the spears imo
turbid needle
hang on
fallow niche
LMAO
solid cairn
moving onto the shields
fallow niche
I would agree they are probably the hottest ones
Chaos Shield mvp
then Zeus
Then Zag
solid cairn
Zagreus shield is probably a C
fallow niche
yeah
turbid needle
fallow niche
I don't think zeus shield is bottom rung for looks
solid cairn
I don't know if there are any D tiers for appearance
fallow niche
Hmmm actually, its 5th from the bottom now that I think of it
solid cairn
zagreus bow gets a C
C tier is all zagreus stuff so far
Chiron bow
not a huge fan
probably an A tier
I'm gonna go back and revise it before posting
hera bow
meh
B tier
Zagreus rail
B tier as well
turbid arch
Chaos Shield should in a tier of it's own. To me, it is the best weapon in the game still.
The Tier after would probably have Eris Rail, Nemesis Sword, Excalibur and Guan Yu Spear in it.
All of the Bow Aspects are below that, so are all of the remaining Spears probably.
Poseidon Sword, hestia Aspect and Rail Zagreus Aspect somewhere in between the bow and the ones mentioned before.
The fists to me feel like they are in the same tier as the Bow, just not as cumbersome to use.
solid cairn
smh fashion tier lists are the only ones that matter
unkempt pagoda
here's my gameplay list:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187458596559257600/690594088910848021/unknown.png
gloomy vine
Whether it is fun or effectiveness I disagree either way
unkempt pagoda
appearance list:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187458596559257600/690594564389601280/unknown.png
eris rail is ugly and i stand by that
wait, for gameplay list i accidently mixed up demeter and talos, oops
worn goblet
The Shield is really great, but I think the Zeus Aspect of it is the only one I can get ridiculous damage off of without spamming Poseidon boons.
I never really enjoyed the rail as much as the other weapons, but I always thought Zag's aspect with the extra ammo was solid. Achilles' Aspect on the spear can be really wack if paired with crit or doom, or even perhaps aphrodite's boons.
Zag's Aspect on the bow is my favorite just for the mad crits, and Zag's Aspect on the twin fists is completely stupid with the amount of attack speed you can get. Other than that the Talos Aspect on the fists is great for extra CC and Damage on your upper.
Aaaaaand Arthur is the best Stygius Aspect imo.
solid cairn
chaos shield with ares special
turbid arch
This is how I would do it.
worn goblet
Eh, still won't get as much damage as Zeus Aspect Shield with Zeus or Artemis special.
solid cairn
zeus shield has low range
turbid arch
Zeus Shield + Explosive Return is huge.
worn goblet
Yeah, but is shreds everything it touches. Who needs range when everything you touch dies in seconds?
turbid arch
Spam Q for huge chunks of damage
solid cairn
chaos shield arguably does more dps overall but spread over the whole room
worn goblet
Explosive return is okay, but it does have as good sustain as just keeping the shield out.
solid cairn
also explosive return is equally good for chaos shield
worn goblet
And the fact that you gotta bull rush before chucking out your shield makes your dps kinda...slower I suppose? With the Zeus Aspect shield you just gotta chuck it and recall it as enemies idiotically keep running into your shield and taking extreme amounts of damage.
solid cairn
chaos shield is acquired taste
but it is a very safe way of playing the game and one of the best weapons for high heat
turbid arch
Not every weapon that works for regular runs is good for high heat. is there any weapon that is amazing for high heat but mediocre for everything else?
I don't think there is.
stiff stone
@stable fossil not sure shades can travel between biomes
kind cloud
wait..wut? how is zeus s hield above chaos shield? da heck?
if someone is going to beat hades at max heat, it'll probably be using chaos shield
chaos shield works with so many different builds. try doing hestia with a non-artemis attack build on high heat (anything from mid 20s plus). it's...uh...not as effective.
also, i accidentally found recently (a few nights ago) that hestia isn't super precise. in the temple of styx, i was practicing aiming before hades fight and using charon as a target. despite aiming in his direction, the hestia manually reloaded shot wouldn't connect with charon consistently (indicated by charon's glass shield).
timber kayak
Last time i played was before ice boons were introduced where aphrodite/ares,artemis,dio were the strongest boons. how does demeter compare in general, and does it have a synergy like zeus and rail?
kind cloud
i initially didn't like demeter but the more i've played with her, the more i realize that she's probably the most versatile boon to get.
worn goblet
So somethin' really weird just happened. I quit the game whilst in Asphodel in a chamber I completed, and upon loading back, I just take zero damage from lava at all, even when in a new chamber with enemies.
I literally just started standing in lava while enemies are standing there wondering how to reach me. Super weird.
kind cloud
she offers:
- attack plus status curse
- healing
- upgrading boons
- her cast is incredible if combined with artemis
- has duo boons with zeus and dio iirc
i'm forgetting a few other things
worn goblet
kind cloud
@worn goblet
hmmm, yeah. weird.
lament coral
Demeter's cast is most certainly not incredible
the fact that you need a duo to make it useable is absurd
kind cloud
i disagree mate. i found her cast to be awesome even without artemis. but it does take some time to get used to like being able to anticipate where an enemy will be or will spawn
lament coral
you can use Ares cast solely with the vortex, at least against regular enemies
I'm assuming you're not playing with Forced Overtime
kind cloud
i'm always using forced overtime. i play minimum 12 heat with max fo
lament coral
see, I've found it absolutely useless with 40% FO
because enemies just walk past the beams
kind cloud
when i started with demeter, i had the same feeling
but with practice, i've gotten better at timing it
that said, i'm not using stygian soul
while i see the charm of stygian soul, i'm too acclimated to the status quo
and ares has been repeatedly nerfed but he still retains the best legendary in the game in vicious cycle. the other night i watched someone (heartful peach iirc) with a full ares build just wipe everything out with ease.
my prediction: someone who clears max heat will do it with chaos shield and get lucky on getting a full ares build. vicious cycle is overpowering but getting it is a bit of a hassle.
lament coral
I don't think max heat is possible anymore
kind cloud
benefits package, right?
lament coral
yep
kind cloud
yeah, that's exactly why vicious cycle is so important.
and getting it early would be a tremendous help
kind cloud
ares dash with cast plus vicious cycle
but the key is to keep firing them off as enemies are spawning in
lament coral
that'd require getting the Ares set and extra dashes off Hermes
kind cloud
yep
at this point, it's clear that whoever gets max heat clear will be akin to basically winning the rng lottery
like...a billion dollar lottery in real life
that's how lucky they'll need to get
lament coral
I'd love to see a TAS
kind cloud
at this point, most would probably settle for that at max heat
solid cairn
is aphro attack the best for arthur
rocky sage
boiz what to start with on chaos shield i did Dionysus and it went pretty well anything else ??
unkempt pagoda
the best for arthur are either athena or artemis
athena bc sheās still decently strong and also itās fun to deflect things inside your aura
artemis because you can one shot boss phases real quick
analog lodge
Weapon tier list(in my opinion)
https://imgur.com/a/KsV5xqw
hearty pilot
after bull rush, special launches more shields
rocky sage
what keepsake to take
analog lodge
Zeus
rocky sage
makes sense
covert tide
How does damage reduction stack?
analog lodge
Arthur is a little slow for high heats as its animations make you vulnerable and using evasion for the work around also leaves you vulnerable. I did say this was my opinion though.
hearty pilot
i haven't seen a source for that but i thought i saw that number thrown around
covert tide
So if youāre in the Arthur circle and you have 40% dr from positive outlook as well
unkempt pagoda
80% is how much god mode stacks
hearty pilot
ah
unkempt pagoda
iām not sure if thereās an overall dr cap
hearty pilot
there probably is
analog lodge
You tend to get hit a lot with arthur though.
hearty pilot
i wonder if weak and hermes count as dr for that though
because they're effectively dr but technically different effects
covert tide
Then youād have 64% damage reduction overall?
analog lodge
Hermes doesn't, it is dodge chance not dr
covert tide
Weak is how much dmg enemies do not how much you take
So I assume it factors in before the dr
hearty pilot
hm
if there is a cap i wonder what's included
i could def see weak and the hermes dash heal maybe factoring in but idk
covert tide
I assume the Hermes dash heal would be based on the damage you actually took, not the original amount it would have hit for before weak and dr are factored in
covert tide
Yeah
covert tide
So Athena, Aphrodite, Arthur, and Dionysus (positive outlook and standing in festive fog) are multiplicative but weak would stack nicely with it, I guess
hearty pilot
are they actually multiplicative? thats what im wondering
covert tide
Multiplicative would mean approaching it from the perspective of what percent of the damage you are taking
covert tide
40% from arthur, 40% from positive outlook, 30% from festive fog, 15% from Athena, 15% from Aphrodite would mean the damage you DO take is: .6ā¢.6ā¢.7ā¢.85ā¢.85, and I guess the ā80% capā would mean that number canāt drop below .2
But before all that stuff like weak and the new bloodstone effect would affect the starting damage number
But this is me speculating
I can never actually watch the numbers fast enough to do the math while playing haha
hearty pilot
i tried to write my interpretation and then realized i have no idea what numbers are lmao
covert tide
Haha let me grab my notebook
My guess on how it works:
Without worrying about the 80% dr cap you can just multiply it all together
But I think in this example if the weak effects dropped the number to 52.5 I think the minimum after damage reduction effects are applied would be 20% of that, not 20% of the original 100
But Iām not sure
The Hermes dash heal couldnāt possibly have the heal based on the base damage of the hit, or you could literally have net health gain after taking damage and dashing
sacred folio
Speaking of damage calculation, it's highly suggested to see the the wiki: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Damage_Calculation
I'm not sure if the latest major update changed anything or not. The content on this page are dug out from the game's files. They're not verified by experiments but it should be mostly correct.
covert tide
That doesnāt look like it mentions effects like weak or abyssal blood
sacred folio
Well, it's a page of formula and I don't feel like enlist every single possible sources of damage reductions.
covert tide
Ah no, I donāt mean listing every single possible effect, I just mean discussing the distinction between things affecting the damage done by enemies versus damage reduction on zag
āEnemies do less damageā versus āzag takes less damageā and whether itās all lumped in together for the purposes of the 80% cap
sacred folio
Ah that makes sense. I haven't really looked into how that works yet.
There were only a single type of "enemies do less damage", which is Weak. And it works just like damage reduction on Zag.
Now with Abyssal Blood added, I'm not sure.
Besides, I keep hearing this 80% cap of damage reduction but I don't see any kind of proof yet.
covert tide
Oh I was just referring to what someone else had said
I havenāt seen it myself either
It seems like it wouldnāt be that hard to disprove in game, even if the specific mechanics havenāt been discovered in the code
versed ibex
well, isn't it easy? get god mode to the 80% max, and then see if any additional things reduce the damage further
covert tide
Well the rules could be different on god mode
versed ibex
god mode shows up as a boon in the boons list
so I thought it was just a permanent modifier š¤·āāļø
covert tide
I havenāt tried with god mode yet so idk
vital karma
Hi. I wonder that the ||Special of Excalibur|| doesn't slow down the weapons thrown by Theseus and Hades? At least I found it not very obvious
covert tide
Other projectile slowing effects work on them
exotic turtle
ill have to do a run in a little bit to check
unkempt pagoda
theseus's spear is very fast to begin with, so that might be why
i've definitely seen hades's projectiles be slowed by effects like spent spirit, so i don't see why hallowed ground would be different
vital karma
oh so projectiles are slowed by some percentage of the original speed?
covert tide
Oh @exotic turtle and @vital karma prolly want to delete or edit your spoilers
exotic turtle
my bad
covert tide
Oh Iād always just assumed that was the case because Theseusās spear is slower under the effects but still pretty fast
Whereas some other projectiles are slowwwwww
covert tide
I assumed it was bringing things down to like 30% of their original speed or whatever
How else would it work? The speed gets set to some specific number?
That would be weird, right?
unkempt pagoda
nah, spent spirit used to be around 50%~ but then it was nerfed to 30%, so i assume it slows the projectiles to 70% speed now
covert tide
That would be strange too because it would have a huge effect on stuff thatās already only moderately fast and a negligible effect on stuff thatās super fast
Oh @unkempt pagoda I was just throwing a number out there as an example
exotic turtle
well look at theseus's spear withthe effect
covert tide
I donāt know the actual values
exotic turtle
kinda falls under what you just said
vital karma
I thought ||a sword from fairy|| can make anything possible lol
covert tide
But it is still noticeably slower
exotic turtle
same with the super slow projectiles
covert tide
So imagine projectiles move at like... 2 inches per second (inches on your screen lol) and theseusās spear is like 20 inches per second
And the slow is a flat -1inch/s reduction
vital karma
you can even stand on lava when you have your Special there
covert tide
Then projectiles would now be going 1 in/s and the spear would be 19in/s
vital karma
would Theseus himself be slowed(when he is thrown...
covert tide
And if it were able to make a dent in the spearās speed (even a 10% dent, 2in/s), suddenly the projectiles donāt move at all?
So itās almost certainly % based
exotic turtle
i gotta play more to get a better feel for the slow with his spear specifically
it just seems like some projectiles get slowed to an absolute crawl
and while it is noticeable with the spear, if it was percentage based, it would greatly reduce the spead at which it is moving
covert tide
Itās just that Theseusās spear is really fast, it crosses the screen in a fraction of a second
covert tide
So I donāt see how a static reduction could possibly be noticeable on it without completely stopping projectiles (or having them move backwards lol)
tidal thorn
Thes could also just be an exception because he is a boss.
exotic turtle
yeh, its definetly % based
covert tide
It does slow it some
exotic turtle
just what that % is and if it is the same among all projectiles is the question now
covert tide
I guess it could be a nonlinear function??? But that would be strange too
tidal thorn
https://i.imgur.com/jTTM55H.jpg
This Special brought to you by Chaos! For when the game never lets you level.
lament coral
so Hades' urns aren't traps anymore?
tidal thorn
Urns still hurt so idk if they are traps now or not.
lament coral
their damage used to be amplified by the trap heat modifier
if it's not anymore, that'd drastically reduce the value of Athena's boon that reduces trap damage, and also make the fight more manageable overall
covert tide
I only really value that boon if I have heightened security turned on
analog lodge
In which case you should not be taking trap damage anyways
You do not pick heightened security when unable to dodge traps
covert tide
I dodge traps 99% of the time
I just prefer not having that potential 1% being a run-ending mistake
And thereās always the occasional step into lava on the extreme measures hydra fight
But I havenāt taken heightened security in a while, so I canāt confirm about the urns from personal experience
turbid needle
Urns are still trap damage.
covert tide
Good to know
turbid needle
at least Quake Cutter isn't Cast damage anymore
gentle palm
https://prnt.sc/rjwge8 Elusive title obtained! \o/
sacred folio
Zero kills by Thanatos, IIRC
gloomy scroll
skull is just godmode
grand patrol
GHFCGHDFGH
gentle palm
Yup, 0 kills by Than.
turbid needle
Yes.
craggy helm
guan yo sucks, as well as cursed blade
lament coral
you gotta upgrade GY to the max
sage sail
Not the fastest run but definitely the fastest I've melted Hades
craggy helm
give a higher health bar for blade and guan yos a leech that doesn't have to charge
unkempt pagoda
it's 60% now
lament coral
and you still only heal 1 HP per attack?
unkempt pagoda
i think it's increased?
sacred folio
It was buffed to healing 2 HP per hit in the last major update.
lament coral
hm, still doesn't seem worthwhile
sacred folio
By last I mean the Demeter & Guan Yu update.
lament coral
I don't think fist's 2% heal off special kills is useful, and that one doesn't have any downsides
you're basically forced to take flurry with the curse
and sword doesn't even have a hammer like the long fist
sage sail
I used cursed blade with Excalibur fully expecting trash and it actually wasn't bad
lament coral
really? You were healing once in a blue moon and still found it useful, while trading away 60% of your max HP?
though I found Arthur to be really painful overall, even while using the double dash hammer
sage sail
the healing was really often, you can hit a group with the big slashes
I couldn't get arthur to work well until started alternating attack and dash, your attack combo doesn't start over after a dash
rocky sage
has anyone had the problem of blade rift trapping them in the final boss?
covert tide
New speed record (for me, anyway, I know itās not that impressive in comparison to actual speed runners) https://i.imgur.com/3QfYcLz.png
I play the sword and fists on this file
rocky sage
@lament coral the green urns
hushed ledge
i'm getting more consistent at final boss 
formal basin
Starting to think that if I'm using Ruthless, no matter what else is on offer from Hermes, even +1 dashes has priority.
lament coral
that's always the case tho
formal basin
Eh, if I'm in a build reliant on attack speed, I can manage with 2 dashes.
But just 1? Even with all the dodge, can't do it.
lament coral
well, I might take a purple attack/special or any cast speed on a specific build over +1 dash, but +2 and 3 always take priority
formal basin
Yeah, I agree with the +2 and 3.
covert tide
You could try the move speed after dash thing, thatās almost like a second dash š
lament coral
you only need 3 dashes to dodge Hades' sweep without having to time it
nah, move speed really doesn't help
covert tide
Bold of you assume Iām capable of dodging it at all
lament coral
in fact, it kinda messes you up
covert tide
Lol
No I know, I hate that goon
Boon
I was being facetious
It puts me in lava every time
covert tide
Precise???
lament coral
I feel that getting a 100% speed boost after a dash is the opposite of precision
covert tide
Lol I just slide off to the edge of the screen with it
hushed ledge
you can dash and then run back a bit
formal basin
I actually kinda like move speed for certain things. Fists + Athena Attack with high movespeed is a moving wall of attacks while deflecting.
hushed ledge
or dash, micromove, dash
earnest ravine
I guess if you're used to it, you don't need to spam two dashes in a row to dodge?
hushed ledge
in such a way that you're still chaining dashes, but you get some adjustments inbetween
lament coral
@formal basin I thought so, too, until I got Athena dash
hushed ledge
so you can react during
lament coral
turns out it wasn't Athena attack that did most of the work, it was the dash
lament coral
you just dash and fist people
lament coral
fisting them with DOOM
lament coral
a Merciful End
formal basin
No seriously, athena attack deflects everything in front of you, and allows for some degree of movement that scales with movespeed.
lament coral
I've been using nothing but Athena attack for multiple heat levels now
but Athena dash works just as well, if not better
covert tide
I like chain lightning for fists attack
formal basin
It's the AOE and the stuff at the sides that's the problem :/
covert tide
I do like Athena dash
lament coral
since it allows you to take a better attack boon
formal basin
Of course it works better, Athena dash is the best in the game.
covert tide
Demeter or Dionysus attack is also fun
lament coral
yes and no
formal basin
I'm talking about a novel interaction :/
lament coral
have you seen all of fist's hammers?
there's a hammer that makes your attack finish with a dash attack
covert tide
I like explosive cutter with Demeter fists
lament coral
and Arty dash passively increases the damage of your dash attack
so you can end your attack combo with a massive dash attack
covert tide
I donāt have the patience to actually finish an attack sequence
I dash around too much
lament coral
you get used to stop and fist with Talos
hushed ledge
long knuckle is absurd, and so is the one that makes you finish combos with DA
formal basin
Also combos with the concentration hammer and the one that makes your dash strike pierce and 1000% against armor.
lament coral
also, dash attack hammer technically increases your attack speed
because the dash attack has a shorter downtime than the regular finisher
meaning that you can practically stunlock enemies, which doesn't work with a regular attack combo
fist made me realize how strong backstabbing is
Talos, punch, dash through, punch, dead
hard to pull off against furies, doesn't work on Hydra, everyone else tho, they're taking extra oomph
covert tide
I donāt usually have trouble with regular enemies, if I fail on a run it will almost always be on the final boss
lament coral
I always have trouble with armored ones, especially in Elysium
in fact, I always have trouble with Elysium
rocky sage
wait so did anyone have the ares dash problem with hades?
rocky sage
when battling hades whilst the green urns are existent dashing basically pops one and it traps u
lament coral
it stuns you for a moment
works as intended
you're supposed to not get hit by the urns or their AOE
you can break em yourself if you can do so safely, or just let Hades pop em
rocky sage
also i noticed in my runs that always go for my attack and special dealing some status effect
for ez privileges
lament coral
Privileged Status life
lament coral
it's the big brain move
rocky sage
meme or actual lol
lament coral
actual
covert tide
@lament coral imma channel Hypnos for a sec. Donāt stand in front of their spears š
lament coral
pro tip: Demeter dash's chill lasts for a whooping 8 seconds
rocky sage
IKR
lament coral
easy PS enabler if you can't get attack/special one or already have something else
rocky sage
I had a run with 3 casts (while having infernal soul) with the demeter artemis duo
i didnt even attack
bare special
barely
covert tide
Iām just kidding I know itās not that easy, especially with forced overtime on
covert tide
I can understand that, I become truly useless when Iām out of death defiances
The pressure is too much
Itās like I really only have 2 because losing the 3rd is a guaranteed game over lol
gentle palm
Hey weird question, how does Stygian Soul and Aspect of Hera interact?
lament coral
I don't believe you can load an infinite amount of casts
if that's what you're alluding to
haven't tried it tho
gentle palm
Nah, more wondering if it increases the speed with which it regenerates, or if it's purely just a bad move
covert tide
So it only starts to recharge after you shoot?
rocky sage
@gentle palm i cant believe ur # in discord is 6969 lucky bastard
lament coral
probably
gentle palm
science time
rocky sage
@lament coral so does the doctor recommend stygian or infernal on hera?
lament coral
lemme check
lament coral
yep, it only starts regenerating after shooting
and it just causes the cast to dissipate faster
rocky sage
meaning?
gentle palm
so it's objectively bad
lament coral
meaning you shouldn't use Stygian with Hera
rocky sage
also i got a random mission completed
and dumped on the titan blood on talos
idk why
i just did it
lament coral
Talos is interesting
lament coral
I think Demeter is better though, a more reliable and consistent damage output
lament coral
I definitely do not like Arthur
lament coral
did you max it out?
lament coral
GY
rocky sage
?
lament coral
Guan Yu
rocky sage
is it worth it though?
lament coral
cause it reduces not only your starting HP but your HP gain as well
rocky sage
i mean for lower price i can max demeter
lament coral
absolutely, GY is the best spear aspect, only Zag comes close
and GY practically has a better special by default
rocky sage
tru
i mean i understand why to not like arthur
for high heat runs its a disaster
but the CHONKY NUMBERS
versed tide
lament coral
@tepid sentinel when you hover over an HP boon, your current/max HP is shown in the tooltip
same with HP items from the well
lament coral
Sisyphus' HP option also shows a tooltip with your HP when you hover over it
final ivy
Can someone tell me how tf am im supposed to finish a run with 32 skulls
tepid sentinel
git gud or git lucky
lul
i mean know the attack habits of enmies and theeir ranges
and dodge accordingly
sometimes u can spam dash...it works ,but if u use all dashes and then into enemies its free dmg on you
final ivy
Well guess I just need luck now
tepid sentinel
prly can be done with shield easiest maybe cuz if u hold ur invul from that direction and u can shield bash away far after the enimies chase u while ur blocking
final ivy
I think I shouldnāt use Arthurās aspect cause itās so slow
tepid sentinel
best to get boons as early as possible too instead of gold/pom/heats
imo hearts more valuable early/mid
too slow lol
heats vs all others excpt boons*
final ivy
Youāre probably right I should try either shield or fists
I think the fist can actually really help as well
Both aspects are really good too
tepid sentinel
fists is a little difficult cuz low range unless ur good at time/dashing and etc
Bow is rly good too if u know how it works lol
final ivy
Or get lucky with some hammers
final ivy
For example I got in one run the raging kick thing and the one which gives u a range boost
tepid sentinel
like one time i got Dio Artimis Demeter and Zues on cast Boon bow
final ivy
Damn
tepid sentinel
yea those are good
id go crit on q and punches
or you can also go Demeter and Aphro
alota good curse combo or jsut pure dmg combo lol
low patio
@low patio you can see the mirror setup in the boon menu
@stiff stone @gloomy vine Incredible. I should've re-checked in game before. I've just been oblivious to this my whole life * - * Thanks!
(yes I react after a whiiiile)
gentle palm
https://prnt.sc/rjylkg this was a fun build
hushed ledge
I wonder if there would be a way to get hitboxes to show in game
it would help with learning spacing a lot
and what you can/can't "punish"
lethal jay
Guys, it's been a long time since I tried a run with the shield but
was always this dificult to aim the bull rush? (with the controller)
The aim assist is on, but the bull doesn't lock on the enemies, and I really can't remember if it was always this way or was changed recently
tidal thorn
https://i.imgur.com/b2WHbH1.jpg Oh my lawd.
I destroyed my best time.
Last best was ~21 min.
covert tide
@tidal thorn nice work! I had a 21min best until today too but I only got it down to 18min
tidal thorn
Bosses never melted so quick. I'm still shocked at the damage. lol
covert tide
Haha I linked my build above, Demeter fists
gloomy vine
What are the things called that you get from friends? batty and bouldy etc?
trinket?
covert tide
Companions
gloomy vine
thanks
tidal thorn
@covert tide That Dem build looks nuts. I forgot what the Zeus Leg was.
dense locust
Cursed sword could be viable if it healed on dash attacks
wicked raft
I found cursed sword to be really good
Could just face tank everything and heal back
This is with 0 heat tho
tidal thorn
I did Arthur with Cursed Sword and thought it was actually fun, 12 heat.
untold blaze
Arthur's too slow to really make full use of it though.
Then again I suppose the trade off is you get more than 2 hits worth of hp when you first pick it up.
tepid sentinel
if we replace keepsakes like feather or butterfly then replace them, do we keep the benefits? or nahh
earnest ravine
NOpe, it goes away.
torpid turret
Helps a lot really
I lucked out and got it as 1st hammer
2nd hammer was 1000% against armour which is ideal
turbid needle
Not saying Breaching Cross isn't bad, I underrated it at first.
It does help in Elysium, I'll give it that much.
tidal thorn
@untold blaze I liked it because the health hit isn't as bad. Was still able to build up alright tankage.
torpid turret
Its a better 2nd hammer imo
Man I entered Sytx at 6:06
3 sack unfortunately but still very happy with this run
tidal thorn
All armor breaking hammers are great if you're running x2 Benefits.
torpid turret
Now I need a new goal since sub 10 was crushed
turbid needle
Oh, wait, High Confidence? Dang.
torpid turret
Take note on how close I was to beefing this run
tidal thorn
How do you build Achilles spear? I'm alright with Zag, doing really bad with GY now :(, and I'm not touching Hades. Just not sure what a good combo is for Achilles.
torpid turret
Every single one of my spear escapes was a special build
Explosive launcher and artemis on special lol
torpid turret
Yeah
I prob woulda been off for the night thats for sure
But we made it thankfully lmfao
covert tide
On a scale of breathing air forcefully out your nostrils and throwing your keyboard through your screen
torpid turret
I actually didn't realize until I saw the screenshot after
I took lucky tooth so I could focus constant DPS on hades, that sure paid off
So many stealths that fight too
covert tide
I still canāt fathom doing runs that fast
I just broke my previous record with the fists with 18 minutes lol
But 18 heat
So that was fitting lol
torpid turret
Well if you watch the video I think the key to this run was a fountain room in every single biome looool
turbid needle
@prime knoll Not saying you haven't tried it, but World Smasher is still a thing.
torpid turret
No banatos
turbid needle
I think Zeus Aspect is best never using Bull Rush except explicitly to block, you're better off giving them the 1-2 Pulverizing Blow -> Dash Attack punch, but World Smasher is cool.
turbid needle
Ooh.
tidal thorn
I want to love World Smasher. It needs a little love.
turbid needle
No Sisyphus or Patroclus is rough.
I think World Smasher might need to hit harder.
torpid turret
Yeah but 3 fountains, can't ask for a better outcome tbh haha
turbid needle
Being able to hold the block would do a lot, too.
torpid turret
Also I think ~3 chaos gates from wells which was pretty darn lucky too
prime knoll
Eh, I've got three bull rush hammers here right now. I'll try World Smasher again.
tidal thorn
The one upgrade that adds range AND piercing is 80 damage base. World Smasher is only 70. :/
torpid abyss
Hey wouldn't it be cool if they like removed all shields ever? I think that'd be dope
hushed ledge
š¤
turbid needle
Does that include boss Impervious phases?
hushed ledge
Shields are fine
hushed ledge
Oh yeah those suck
torpid abyss
Because man their movesets are annoying
turbid needle
No more Greatshields or Theseus, okay.
torpid abyss
Yes
turbid needle
Well, Theseus will just have to come up with a different moveset.
torpid abyss
Like... In a dirty way
Theseus is sorta ok
But greatshields
They are more aggressive than the sword guys
tidal thorn
Extra armored fast greatshields ._.
torpid abyss
And fighting them is far too grindy
turbid needle
Greatshields are fine until you've also got Brightswords/Longspears/Nemean Chariots/Flamewheels on you.
You know, about half of Elysium's enemies.
torpid abyss
Greatshields are annoying to deal with always
And if there are 2 greatshields next eachother???
God
torpid turret
Flamewheels are horrible with fists
turbid needle
I'm actually more okay with Greatshield death squads than I am Longspears.
Unless you have Long Knuckle.
torpid turret
^
turbid needle
they're still not great
torpid turret
Time to submit my run 
dense locust
what do yall think, divine dash or divine flourish (athena) for a chaos shield 32 heat run with deadly strike and charged shot?
torpid turret
Same rarity?
dense locust
yeah
turbid needle
Dash.
tidal thorn
Flo.
torpid turret
Special
dense locust
but idc about rarity for athenaa dash
tidal thorn
Actually, for 32 heat, prob Dash.
torpid turret
If its epic take special, otherwise id take dash
torpid turret
Well actually it depends what aspect you're using on the shield
dense locust
chaos
torpid turret
Ok thats what I figured
dense locust
but if i need to last minute deflect
special might be too slow
I was gonna force aphrodite and pray for a epic special next biome
but maybe demeter would be better since i'm mostly using charged shot
torpid turret
Could go for deadly reversal too
dense locust
yeah that's gonna be a possibility no matter what
torpid abyss
Idk how to fix greatshields
They are honestly harder for me than half the bosses in the game
tidal thorn
Dashes.
turbid needle
That doesn't help.
torpid turret
Smack em in the buttox
turbid needle
Like I said, having to dodge around Greatshields by themselves is fine, when you've got any of Elysium's hyper aggressive enemies also chasing you down you eat dirt for it.
Reducing their (and Theseus's) angle of blocking would help a lot.
torpid turret
Any hammer with pierce will make shield boys a lot easier that's for sure
turbid needle
Not everything has that option.
torpid abyss
Greatshields don't exist in a vacuum
When paired to literally everything else in Elysium, they are by far the most problematic enemy in the region
Butterflies AT LEAST can be dealt with with big AoE attacks
torpid turret
Idk I don't have that much of an issue dealing with them usually
torpid abyss
But in order to beat shields you gotta position yourself in a most of times dangerous position
What heat lvl do you play on?
covert tide
I got sidetracked https://imgur.com/a/LJs1sWS
turbid needle
@shadow copper
torpid turret
banatos 
turbid needle
~Bananatos~
covert tide
Bananatos
torpid turret
Never uploaded to YT before, how longs it take for this video to not be 360p lol
turbid needle
Just YouTube's famously user-friendly design.
prime knoll
Using World Smasher- is the regular attack suppose to launch foes far beyond the range of your followup....? The dash attack doesn't do it- it punches and disrupts foes then slams them with the smasher attack.
turbid needle
It is.
Regular attack has knockback.
It's why I really wish your attack didn't auto-fire after World Smasher.
torpid abyss
I wish i could play beyond 5 heat
prime knoll
:jackiechanwtf:
turbid needle
Only way to properly fix it is with Pulverizing Blow.
torpid abyss
But eh, i guess anything that touches numbers is beyond my reach
turbid needle
Or buffer a dash immediately after the World Smasher.
prime knoll
I just keep dash attacking to avoid it, but it makes it really weird on the occasions that I don't since the attacks look/feel like they should behave identically
turbid needle
Anyway, that's why I usually don't mess with the shield. The most interesting Aspect to me is pretty Hammer-dependent and the skill floor is higher than Zag/Chaos Aspect's ceiling.
torpid turret
@torpid abyss You can, just takes practice
torpid abyss
No, i don't think i will
torpid turret
Not with that attitude
covert tide
Like maybe you wonāt be doing <10 minute runs lol
torpid abyss
Look my therapist already told me that
torpid turret
My 1st run was like 44minutes
covert tide
But Iām not that great and I can do medium-high heat in around 20 minutes
torpid abyss
And yes i do admit that maybe i have the worst possible mental health to do anything that involves the risk of losing
torpid turret
Benefits package is terrible
covert tide
I prefer benefits to forced overtime
torpid abyss
I mean
dense locust
I hate benefits
torpid abyss
My previous runs were completed in capped overtime
dense locust
A bad combo can be harder than the bosses
torpid turret
Benefits is rough as
covert tide
I used to run with 6 heat in FO for a long long time and now that Iāve turned it off things feel so easy haha
Everything is so slow
covert tide
Itās like training in the gravity chamber
torpid turret
Benefits makes elysium a nightmare
covert tide
Yeah it does get tricky when the eyeballs spawn a bunch of exploding clonesn
torpid turret
If you take 40% forced overtime, and just practice runs with it to get used to the timing it's very doable
When I started doing heat runs I started with forced overtime, then added in tight deadline
covert tide
Iāll turn it back on eventually, I had it on with stygius, but then I started on fists and donāt need as much heat
torpid abyss
Although i'm unsure how to proceed
torpid turret
Also are you using KBM or Controller?
torpid abyss
At one point i will be forced to play at, say, 15 heat
And my biggest concern is my own mental health
torpid turret
Not forced
covert tide
You wonāt be forced
torpid turret
You can always use more darkness
torpid abyss
If i have to play athigh heat to unlock stuff, i feel pretty forced
torpid turret
The darkness gain from doing heat runs in which you've already gotten the bounties is pretty high
covert tide
You donāt need to, you can run with 0 heat and save your coins to buy the bounty from Charon
torpid turret
40% forced overtime on 6 weapons is a lot of unlocks
covert tide
Or are you talking hell mode?
torpid turret
That's like 72 blood, 36 diamonds, 36 nectar
torpid abyss
I'm not in hell mode
torpid turret
Just from Forced overtime
torpid abyss
It's just weird
covert tide
Yeah then you can keep running at whatever heat youāre comfortable with and buy the bounty at the end
torpid abyss
Specially with the overly clunky hitboxes on nearly everything
torpid turret
What's your mirror look like rn?
torpid abyss
Like, at times i try to shoot, say, the heads of the hydra
covert tide
Iām on hell mode so im āforcedā to keep bumping the heat, but if that stops being fun Iāll go back to normal mode
torpid abyss
But i have to aim at the shadows, and not the head???
torpid turret
You are using Keyboard Mouse arent you?
torpid abyss
Yeah
covert tide
Thatās just a perspective thing, the shadows indicate where they line up with the floor
torpid turret
Imo this game is much better with a controller
covert tide
Aiming āhigherā is actually just aiming to the side of them
torpid turret
It's def not the type of game I'd every play with KBM
dense locust
covert tide
I do KBM and enjoy it
hushed ledge
Yeah, kbm I find is really useful for moving cleanly
torpid turret
It's prob because I'm not used to it, but I can't aim/move for crap with KBM
dense locust
chamber 7 I have unhealthy fixation with heartbreak flourish zeus aspect shield....
covert tide
@torpid turret humans adapt to whatever kind of input device if you do something long enough
torpid turret
Tbh at this point I cant imagine playing without the auto aim
covert tide
Did anyone see the guy with the prosthetic hand that lets him control his ... DJing interface? (Iām blanking on the word lol)
With his mind
tepid ridge
I also enjoy KBM but I could see controllers being fun. They each have their feelings I would say. I think itās pretty important to remember that Hades, like all video games, is in essence a toy. If you arenāt having fun with it or feel pressure to prove something to it or to the community then moving on to healthier stuff is a win not an admission of loss. Just in response to that previous convo.
covert tide
Yes definitely, if itās not fun then donāt play
Or play the way thatās fun for you
God mode maybe
covert tide
Yeah not everything has to be a competition for records
blazing mulch
The best function of gamepads, force feedback, aka vibrations š³
covert tide
Itās a game
torpid abyss
Like, it's complicated in a way i can't grasp it
covert tide
Youāre supposed to enjoy yourself
torpid abyss
I deal with everything the same way
I have a very annoying combination of autism and severe self worth issues
tepid ridge
Yeah for sure! The game is built to be accessible. If playing on low heat is fun and balanced for you, then do it all you like! Bounties with heat are secondary to having fun. They upgrade weapons and systems that are meant to make you more powerful so you enjoy the game more. If you arenāt enjoying it with bounties and what they give then just cut out the middle man. Also @covert tide isnāt it called a deck? The DJing thing?
torpid turret
God Mode is not a bad shout
torpid abyss
I don't want god mode
torpid turret
In the end, every run ends the same way
torpid abyss
If i do that i will never hear the end of people going "oh you loser millennial playing on easy mode"
torpid turret
Lol. I normally play all games on easiest difficulty and just enjoy the story. Like Last of Us, God of War, and Spider-Man
torpid turret
https://youtu.be/xcGMth_Yn0U My 9:45 if anyone's interested
covert tide
Wait who will call you a loser millennial? Gen Zees?
hushed ledge
Gamers tm
torpid abyss
Yeah, gamers
tepid ridge
I mean, if it helps you might think about it like gamers arenāt the final authority on what is ideal in the game, the devs are and they put every function in the game for a reason, and that reason is having fun.
torpid abyss
I really hope i can grasp that
dense locust
Finally i get shield 32
hushed ledge
nice
dense locust
This was my start: https://imgur.com/3imb94q
Ended with 5 athena dashes, athena call, athena attack, and basically just ran around desperately trying to survive while everything died and got charmed
Now for the bow, sword, and mitts
turbid needle
Well done.
torpid abyss
I can't get sisyphus
turbid needle
I threw my two Hunting Blades at Hades in the last phase and they did 7000 damage in less than 3 seconds.
hushed ledge
jeez
turbid needle
Level 1 Epic Slicing Shot, 13 damage, Common Chaotic Cast, 34%, Common Pressure Points, and Rare Ravenous Will, 20%.
And five Olympians for 30% Family Favorite.
tidal thorn
What dictates the direction Meg shoots her summon?
untold blaze
The direction of zag's shoulders at the time of summoning.
tidal thorn
...wow.
untold blaze
No really.
It's slightly in front of him spans across the stage from side to side.
So you want to be horizonal and running past your enemies when you summon her.
turbid needle
Okay, so imagine I have four enemies in a geometrically perfect straight line in front of me, and a line segment with its endpoints being Zagreus's shoulders. Do I want the line segment to be perpendicular to or parallel with the line of enemies?
untold blaze
Parallel, you want to be facing to the right or left of whatever your target is at about 90 degrees.
dense locust
Zag will be perpendicular to it
dense locust
yeah
Which is another way of saying a line that crosses both his shoulder will be parallel to the summon
51 minutes...
That was the most cowardice build i've ever had
But a wins a win
untold blaze
I don't know, sometimes its nice to play things slow.
untold blaze
My DR builds, when they work and the game doesn't f me by selecting the exact wrong olympions, tend to run about 60 minutes and no one dealing more than 4 damage to me a hit.
tidal thorn
I need to start playing with Deadline because it's basically free heat for me...if I remember to pause at doors. lol
dense locust
It can be
but if I had chosen it I wouldn't have completed my 32
Because my build ended up being almost entirely defensive
untold blaze
I kind of hope at some point they make 'summoning' builds in the game. Would be fun to see zag fighting with a little army on his side.
dense locust
I've used companion shady 95 times; I've used all of the others twice each
unkempt pagoda
ten more minutes and you could've gotten a unique title
dense locust
I've love the new stats
Are these stats what you have when you end the game or have only been recorded since this update
dense locust
idk, because I know for a fact I've used the gods keepsakes more than 2 times but this says I've used them twice
dense locust
And in the other record it only shows the keepsake that you ended with
which would make sense that broken spear point and lucky tooth are 49 and 38 respectively, with eternal rose coming in 3rd with 3
covert tide
Yeah I can do tight deadline up to 26 heat on hell mode but any more than that probably means putting more in calisthenics or jury duty or damage control, all which slow things down substantially
dense locust
I do no tight deadline, no approval process, no routine inspection and no lasting consequences, with 1 in benefits package
rest is maxed
torpid abyss
I kinda wish i could do that
stiff stone
Since we're all sharing builds here, check this one out hehe
https://imgur.com/a/KZnqfh1
covert tide
Woo 500 health
wicked raft
Also just did a run with Hades aspect
Getting unlucky and not getting charge speed+ was pretty painful
Had to basically special attack spam for 100 dmg Hades to death.
covert tide
Yeah
torpid abyss
Why
dense locust
ive used shady 99% of the time
torpid abyss
@dense locust How can i beat hades as a "can't dodge clearly telegraphed things" kinda guy
dense locust
Try and tank up. Go for athena dash and either poseidon or athena call if you can. Try and get as much hp as you can. Getting dodge through second wind and damage reduction through athena
prioritize dashes from hermes, and then second wind/dodge/move speed if there is nothing better
torpid abyss
Ok but my luck is "no attack or special boons by Elysium"
dense locust
I played on earlier heats in a different patch and things have changed significantly, but learning to dash attack effectively is helpful
torpid abyss
Also i feel my rng does not favor my conditions of the pact at all
dense locust
What heat, weapon, aspect
torpid abyss
Like i get the sword base zagreus aspect with the healing attack
But i have the increased trap damage condition
And traps straight up oneshot me
dense locust
My early heat runs were always super tanky, getting 300+ hp, dodge chance, damage reduction, athena or poseidon call for tight situations (leveling up athena call is amazing)
torpid abyss
Making it extremely problematic in places like styx temple
torpid abyss
Yeah but i can't really assure to get hearts all the time
torpid abyss
What aspect do i try and use
Cuz i'm unsure how the fists can be used now that rush kick got nerfed
dense locust
Don't be afraid to explore the current seed and then use the give up option to adapt to what its giving you
rotund ember
if you need to tank, take shield
zeus aspect preferably
im still convinced that it's near-busted bc you can sit in a corner and not take damage
torpid abyss
Everyone can
rotund ember
i usually take calisthenics and extreme measures for heat
torpid abyss
I'm really annoyed by how ranged attacks work in the temple of styx encounters
dense locust
Like if the very first room gives a hammer but you don't like any of the upgrades for the weapon you chose, go take damage and choose Give Up from the pause menu and take a different weapon to see if the hammer gives an upgrade you really like
torpid abyss
Your attacks get blocked by invisible hitboxes on everything
rotund ember
yeah its not great