I only got one once since fishing was added, and only with that 1 time Poseidon fishing boon
#h1-builds-and-combat
lament coral
full swift
If only you could get that boon like other legendaries
lament coral
It'd just pollute the boon pool
then again, Poseidon is already trash, might as well add more garbage onto the pile
versed ibex
yeah, the only good thing about Poseidon is if you're farming for things
and then ofc he only offers his attack/special/cast boons 😭
naive tusk
Saying he is thrash is taking it to the extreme but to each their own 
versed ibex
I did manage to get the poseidon/dio duo boon mid-Elysium, and that was nice
lament coral
the amount of investment it takes for Poseidon to take off is obscene compared to other gods
not to mention the fact that his pushback mechanic is straight up counter-productive on any melee weapon
full swift
The % bonus on room rewards is nice
slow copper
yeah, the only good thing about Poseidon is if you're farming for things
tepid ridge
His cast is useful for quick knockback damage on the last floor and for ad spawns on the final boss but there are usually better options.
versed ibex
I would like his cast more if it had better base damage. Yeah, it hits everything but... well, it's not like there's an "everything" to hit vs bosses.
naive tusk
I'm just saying, there are more things to say besides "this thing is op and that other thing is thrash". I believe in grey areas
tepid ridge
Yes Poseidon has a niche role but can shine in his own way.
coughcoughespeciallyduoboonscough
worn goblet
Poseidon pairs well with only the shield imo.
The shield's moveset is all about bashing enemies into stuff.
full swift
If you get a consistent way to proc razor shoals that does decent damage
worn goblet
If you get his rupture and aoe blast off of wall slam boons on top of your already ridiculous knockback you're pretty much gonna slap an enemy once and watch them ping pong off of walls whilst exploding.
However the Aspect of Zeus on the shield has only two acceptable gods to pair with.
Artemis and Ares.
earnest ravine
?? What
worn goblet
Yeet your shield and start casting homing blade rifts that suck in enemies while shredding their health into dust.
naive tusk
Shots were fired
worn goblet
And put crit on your special to get big damage off of it.
earnest ravine
No, like, Aspect of Zeus works great with like, everything besides Poseidon special
It THRIVES with multihit applications like Dio, Zeus, Athena if you want it to be a mobile safespot, demeter
it's actualyl kind of GARBAGE with Ares Special because of the single application of Doom
worn goblet
Not really. The special's replacement practically screams to grab Ares' boons. I could see where Zeus could be alright.
And don't get doom.
full swift
Crit on a 30 base damage max move 🤔
worn goblet
Just boost blade rifts.
earnest ravine
You can take it on attack for Doom applications but like, that's not accurate at all
full swift
Get on hit on the zeus aspect special
naive tusk
Munching on some 🍿
earnest ravine
No, like, I'm flat out telling you how it works based on over 20 heat runs. It works best on on hit effects, and stacking debuffs. Artemis is wonderful in general, but don't try and say that only Artemis and Ares works on it because those two synergize least
worn goblet
@full swift That's...literally what I'm saying.
earnest ravine
...aside from again like Poseidon special because that kinda ruins the aspect as a whole but eh
naive tusk
My dear Silv, surely they haven't given it a go to speak like that 
earnest ravine
it's my favourite and I put a lot of work into it orz so I get really excited, sorry
full swift
Artemis is mainly crit...
vague hearth
I struggle to use the zeus aspect tbh
full swift
You could get support fire
vague hearth
But I struggle to use chaos aspect even more, so
naive tusk
It's ok, Silv. I admire your enthusiasm on such a marvelous aspect!
full swift
But that isn't the best
earnest ravine
Support fire on Zeus aspect is nice, yeah, and it's okay on dash strike, too. They fixed it so the cooldown on the special hits for it is WAY nicer recently.
ie. it procs more often
vague hearth
I still need to upgrade chiron aspect to get the spicy zap run
vague hearth
Otherwise the only time I take zeus boons other than his amazing cast is for the rail gatling gun build
earnest ravine
Oh gosh I hadn't even gottten heart rend on it but that could be funny
worn goblet
You can say that, but I'm noticing that these your damage sort of suffers when you don't get the massive boosts in damage that you can get when you pair Artemis and Ares together with it. Perhaps other Gods are excellent with other aspects. Dionysus doesn't give me much addition damage since he focuses mainly on stacking DoT, Aphrodite is just useless unless paired with Artemis on that weapon, Athena is only useful for her dash and her revenge proc as well as her dmg reduction, and Poseidon ruins that aspect.
Oh, and Demeter is okay for boosting your boons.
naive tusk
And if you look at it closely, you can see they didn't need other boons. They are practically down to 10 or so
worn goblet
Other than that I'd just focus Artemis/Ares primarily.
naive tusk
And the others were mostly bonuses
full swift
Crits are good on anything and with the right set up everything can deal a lot of damage
worn goblet
Indeed.
naive tusk
I believe the picture speaks high volumes, darling. I will leave any further discussion to Silv if they wish to continue it hehe
earnest ravine
Uhhhhhhhh, absolutely not? You get the stacking debuffs up to ridiculous degrees with the special hits, which makes pivelaged status essentially never wear off on top of boosting the DOT damage that they're doing per second. Aphrodite has the highest base damage in the damage but you would want that mainly on attack or dash, not the special, to compliment it.
full swift
Because the crit multiplier is higher for lower base damage moves
Which I did not consider for the zeus aspect crit
vague hearth
Ok so yeeting the fancy dinner plate while also not yeeting it is an effective strategy
earnest ravine
Athena is Literally Busted due to how reflect works (and hey, synergize with artemis if you want to keep going there) and you shouldn't be taking that revenge boon unless you're trying for a revenge build, imo, but whatever floats your boat.
full swift
Might have to look up the rates
vague hearth
Wait
worn goblet
The Revenge Duo is paired with Ares as well
Which makes him an even better choice.
There is so much he pairs well with.
vague hearth
Zeus aspect is the result of zagreus mastering the art of pretending to throw the ball for cerberus
full swift
Honestly I've done 100+ runs now and I haven't yet seen the Athena legendary
naive tusk
Get Brilliant Riposte and wait for it to appear
vague hearth
Come to think of it neither have I
full swift
Even with the Athena keepsake
naive tusk
It won't appear if you haven't taken Brilliant Riposte
earnest ravine
Not really, Merciful End is kiiinda weak? Unless you're actively forcing the procs but in that case you're still losing out on a lot of damage. Again, you really don't want to be forcing doom on Zeus aspect and there's a lot better ways to do it, with Ares not being anywhere near a priority for it.
worn goblet
I never even pick up doom
full swift
Brilliant riposte is what one?
worn goblet
I buff my blade rifts that I pick up from Ares.
naive tusk
Deflected attacks are stronger
full swift
God that one is the literal worst
worn goblet
I never pick Ares specifically for Doom unless it's damage is ridiculously high.
earnest ravine
Good, that's fine, but that's not a Zeus aspect specific thing, that's an All Weapons thing. Blade Rifts are fun, but don't really interact with your shield in any meaningful way.
worn goblet
I always use the shield to pick off stragglers that aren't already being shredded by the blade rifts.
earnest ravine
If you're only treating it as an additional blade rift, you're like, SERIOUSLY undervaluing what it can do.
worn goblet
I mean, it's really that aspect's only good move.
earnest ravine
And that's the main thing you're not getting. its on hit effects make it obscenely powerful and the fact that it can shred through groups while you can still act normally gives it unparalleled zone control.
rocky sage
how do u get enough ambrosia to get the companion thingies
worn goblet
Treating it as another blade rift is pretty much what it was meant for. Hell, grabbing the same stuff that makes my blade rifts better just so happens to make my shield do more damage with the special.
earnest ravine
Clearing Elysium with multiple weapons on various heats.
You treat it a a mobile status applicator or a secondary character on the screen to maximize damage, otherwise you might as well be playing Chaos shield.
Because that's essentially what you're doing with it.
worn goblet
It's pretty much just Chaos shield but you can yeet a blade rift temporarily to deal some extra damage, to be honest.
Works for me, to be honest. I deal some really nice damage with it.
earnest ravine
It really isn't and you're kinda ignoring everything I'm stating to the contrary on the fact.
Then good! I'm glad you're at least having some fun.
worn goblet
I mean, you're just kinda mentioning it's on hit effects. I can see how that can work, but what I'm saying is getting the raw damage gets the job done faster from what I've seen.
earnest ravine
The on hits are to give you raw damage by proccing the privelaged Status effect, but also to shred through HP bars on groups. That, plus for things like Zeus, it procs lightning bolts pretty much every time, Dionysus stacks do incredibly silly amounts of damage a second, Demeter can do chiling freeze as well as the explosion almost constantly
worn goblet
Stacking hangover and other such things could work well, but I feel I get more damage out of getting crit and chaos boons to boost raw damage to the point where things will be dead in seconds. I forgot to mention how important getting Chaos buffs to your raw damage is incredibly important if you're going to start just mad critting.
earnest ravine
I have in fact played the game, yes.
worn goblet
I mean, sarcasm isn't necessary. I'm just stating how I disagree with your point of view, and that I see the other gods as sub-optimal on that particular aspect.
earnest ravine
Things are also dead in seconds the way I play with it, usually without me having to even address half of the enemies directly. I can agree Chaos is pretty great regardless.
worn goblet
Chaos is epic.
I usually choose 'em before most other boons.
Just because I'm addicted to the thought of suffering before obtaining infinite power.
full swift
Crit on the zeus aspect special requires a lot more setup to be good than on hit effects
worn goblet
earnest ravine
Yeah! Like, they're impactful at a base level, and can do some pretty fun stuff.
love that +67% enemy spawn rate
earnest ravine
Also thanks bathduck, that was something I was having difficulty putting into words! The concept was there but it wasn't being shaped right
worn goblet
I agree, it does take a lot of effort to set up correctly, but when you do it feels nigh-euphoric.
To just yeet your shield and watch everything's healthbar just get annihilated.
I gotta try out the zeus boon idea though. It sounds kinda epic.
earnest ravine
True! Good feeling, but it's... I guess the idea I was trying to go for was, if you can do similar burst damage but with way less work, maybe the way you're trying to build it isn't the most efficient. It's definitely cool and fun! But there's other ways
does that make sense
I am not great at communicating with people as a rule ^.^;
full swift
To be fair if you have a chaos boon, an epic artemis boon and the bonus crit damage one anything will do heaps of damage
worn goblet
I feel as if it works the best with high hit-rate weapons.
Ones that are slow won't benefit nearly as well.
And I usually slap Poseidon on those for giggles.
earnest ravine
Posiden's good on slower weapons, ye
It gives me more breathing room, too, which is nice. Super fun on sword special.
worn goblet
SLAMS IT ON ASPECT OF ARTHUR AND STARTS SLAPPING THE HELL OUT OF EVERYONE
Either that or Guan Yu.
full swift
Slow weapons with crits are not ok
worn goblet
I'VE TRIED IT
earnest ravine
not much matches thr trhil of seeing a 1900 crit
worn goblet
AND IT IS GREAT
full swift
Just get 2 boons and backstab
worn goblet
Oh yeah I forgot
full swift
The double hit dash attack, crit, bonus dash attack damage
full swift
Wait its pg
opal bay
if you need to curse, remember Blood and Darkness
vague hearth
Yslach works too
worn goblet
Isn't that the Cthonic version of "God damn it"?
'Cause Meg seems to say it a lot when slapped around by Zag in the boss fight, and Zag and Hades seem to both say it when damaged.
vague hearth
It seems like it, yeah
astral magnet
it's a myth from pyre apparently 🤔
vague hearth
Yslach is
Blood and darkness is the cthonic equivalent of winnie the pooh going "oh bother"
full swift
Too long since I had Greek class can't swear in Greek anymore
quiet arrow
one of the scariest thigns jsut happened to me lmfaooooooo i had the chaos boon where enemies throw an inferno bomb at you when they die...
i was in one of those "survive for 45 seconds" room with like, 7 different spawners and. all the skulls that were spawned died at the end of the challenge and flung so many bombs at me
turbid needle
Every time I see a bunch of Skullomats and Numbskulls I instantly forget I have that Curse and charge straight in.
Same if I bring a Curse into Styx and I see a wave of Crawlers.
vague hearth
Oh god
errant narwhal
first rail clear yayyy
the trick to every clear ever seems to be "just have privileged status", honestly
but im still pretty bad with the rail. i probably couldnt have done it without spread fire
naive tusk
Congratz Alma! 
lament coral
yep, PS is key
it is unfortunate that the alternate talent is so lackluster in comparison to PS
stable fossil
Anyone else encounter the chaos shield bug where bull rush won't activate if you start charging it? You get stuck int he animation and can't move.
surreal jolt
no but i get the bug where im blocking but i get hit anyway 
covert tide
Hangover attack + spread fire is so good
prime knoll
I honestly have switched to Family (whatever it is) instead of privileged status, and I'm very happy with it. I get boons from 5 different gods, and I have a 30% boost to all damage all the time. It's great for burst builds that don't want to apply curses beforehand.
I just had the easiest Hera bow run I've ever had- Doom attack, Fog cast, Merciful End, Ice Wine. I applied plenty of curses, but my burst before doing so was more of my output, so it felt worth the difference.
gentle palm
https://prnt.sc/rjbolb Poor final boss melted
covert tide
I like privileged status for going deep down just a couple of gods’ trees
Once you get your two status effects you’re fine
prime knoll
I like PS, but it favors a couple gods. Poseidon requires the Rupture boon to contribute, Ares' rifts can't work with it, Artemis' Hunter's Mark doesn't play too nicely with PS...
unkempt pagoda
i don't think family favorite isn't underpowered, it has its niche and it's good at what it does
it may have a smaller increase, but it's easier to set up
prime knoll
I find Family Favorite freeing because I'm not as likely to avoid any particular god's boons due to curse contribution.
analog lodge
Family favourite only works when you AREN'T getting privileged status
unkempt pagoda
and it's more flexible than privileged
tidal thorn
FF isn't bad depending on the weapon. I like it if I know my attack isnt going to have a status, like Hestia or Arthur.
analog lodge
It may be good for Artemis or Zeus, where they have unreliable curses, but Aphro, Demeter, Dio and Ares are definite PS choices
unkempt pagoda
with privileged, you have to actively set up two statuses on enemies:
- your attacks with statuses (such as, say, rail special) might not be able to set up that easy
- many statuses require a second boon
- doom, hunter's mark, zeus in particular are designed to be used up quickly
and the damage from privileged is worth it
analog lodge
(I named ares because he STARTS with his status)
unkempt pagoda
but FF is a lot easier to set up and increases damage right out the gate, and is a lot more flexible with builds
again, in exchange for less damage than privileged
FF is good at what it does and is good for the people who's builds favor it, and i don't think its underpowered compared to privileged
prime knoll
Yeah. I'm pretty happy with both, though the general restriction of PS (along with my interest in several boon tracks that don't support it) has me basically uninterested in using it over Family Favorite at the moment.
analog lodge
Pos+Arte+Zeus+Athena = 24% FF
Every other god starts with a status and thus makes it easy to get PS
turbid needle
Hermes appears on every run.
prime knoll
I feel like it warped the game prior to this last update. It devalued builds that couldn't trigger it.
unkempt pagoda
if you like playing builds based on statuses, then of course PS is best
turbid needle
I still disagree.
Family Favorite is always on, so if you ever get six Olympians + Hermes (possible, but rare) it's strictly better.
Privileged Status is great for instantly getting the damage boost and if you want to just blow up with Poms, but I use FF exclusively now.
prime knoll
@analog lodge I feel like you're only considering the raw damage boost without considering the attacks you use to apply those curses. If I hit with a strong attack to apply a curse, FF already boosted it by 30-36% whereas PS was still only being setup.
That said, I'm not saying you should value FF more.
turbid needle
So, lemme set it up like this.
When I hit something with maxed FF (we'll say 36%) Stygius Dash Attack, and Heartbreak Strike with no other boosts, I get 56 damage.
It will never hit weaker than that.
analog lodge
I just find it easy to get PS, I get it so long as I don't go Arte, I never actually pick all those many different gods, usually 4 at most
It is probably really important in the revenge build as that depends on a lot of different gods
tidal thorn
If I'm running FF I'll have six gods before Styx.
turbid needle
With the same set-up, after I've applied a second Curse to set Privileged Status, the first hit does 45, then the second hit does 57 damage.
analog lodge
It really depends on how many gods you intend to get and what curses they have
If your intended build has built in PS potential(Dio,aphro) it is a clear choice, but if it doesn't I cannot really say
I never actually tried FF
lament coral
you have to pick up 6 Olympians
Chaos doesn't count
it's easier to get 2 statuses than 6 Olympians
unkempt pagoda
you're expecting FF to compete with PS in terms of pure damage
imo that's the wrong way to think of it
lament coral
you want FF to be the average
turbid needle
Not that it can't, it's possible to get 7 Olympians.
unkempt pagoda
FF is meant to be easy in exchange for less damage, usually
lament coral
you want 18-24% and call it quits
turbid needle
Uh, no.
unkempt pagoda
not that it can't compete, of course
marble ridge
You guys think they'll be an endgame?
turbid needle
There will be.
marble ridge
Cool
lament coral
I really just don't see how you'd play with FF
cause I want specific gods for specific boons
turbid needle
By taking multiple Olympians.
And sometimes the ones I'm looking for don't show up.
lament coral
but I don't want all of the gods
turbid needle
Neither do I, but sometimes I bite the bullet because it's a universal 6% damage up.
lament coral
see, that sounds really crappy
"I take something bad because it makes it a lil better"
turbid needle
That would require it to be bad.
I've taken a random Demeter boon and it gave me Nourishing Soul, boosting my healing the rest of the run and stacking me closer to 42%.
scarlet kindle
on most runs it's a passive +18%-24% damage up that you dont need to trigger anything to get
kind wind
well if you can choose between Ares and Athena (for example) and you have all you want from Ares but nothing from Athena, you just get 6% boost 😄
turbid needle
Sure, Ares has Battle Rage, turns Deadly Flourish Malphon and any version of Hestia into an absolute nightmare machine.
lament coral
see, but that assumes you got Athena special
turbid needle
You always rely on RNG whenever you play this game.
I've picked up literally 8 Artemis and Ares boons in a row with Hunting Blade prereqs and didn't get it.
prime knoll
From my experience, I'd be looking at 24-30% rather than 18-24%. It's actually kind of hard to avoid four to five total gods, especially with the options they throw in Styx (usually for cheap).
lament coral
you peak in Styx
I pick in Asphodel, or even earlier
you fight Hades with ~30%, I fight 3-4 bosses with 40%
turbid needle
And Hermes. With just a few rerolls it is not at all difficult to have 4 Olympians by the time you reach the Fury fight, and either getting Hermes before the fight for 30% (only 25% less of a boost than PS's 40) or right afterwards.
kind wind
i always buy stuff at Styx. im saving everything so the 15% coin bonus is well used
prime knoll
Aye @turbid needle - 3-4 gods by the first boss is pretty common
and there are usually some very solid utility options among those 'extra' gods. Like Nourished Soul, Pressure Points, Battle Fury, After Party/High Tolerance
or some of the revenge boons just for funsies
turbid needle
Revenge boons are the definition of FF filler.
prime knoll
It's a costly investment to only have a couple gods' boons just to get their deepest boons- especially when you're also likely to get those boons going wide as well.
scarlet kindle
yeah priv status is way stronger more consistently but FF is just more convenient to use
not the best justification to use something but i prefer having one less thing to need to micromanage
prime knoll
I suppose after playing soooo many Aphro/Dio runs (and enjoying it), I got tired of playing the game to maximize one mirror upgrade rather than one mirror upgrade boosting anything I choose to do.
dense star
Does max rank FF actually give 6% danage per olympian at max rank? Cause last I was using it the text on the overview of run modifiers was saying 3%.
lament coral
it's 6
prime knoll
I definitely like the SFX for PS. It's a satisfying sound to hear
Yeah, it's 3% per level with two total levels, so 6% per god
I thought it was only 3% at first until I saw people comparing the damage with numbers that 3% just couldn't put up.
dense star
Cool, just had to ask cause text inconsistency makes me paranoid and I'm too lazy to calc. stuff
I get that FF's more consistent, but it does feel a bit odd that you'd need 7 unique gods to slightly beat Priv Status
lament coral
maybe it'll be better once they add more boons, including duos, and rework some of the existing ones
gentle palm
https://prnt.sc/rjc6j1 30 Clears and a new time record 
dense star
Since Priv Status only needs 2 boons, and with stuff like boon rerolls being a thing now...
lament coral
FP is extremely expensive
you only get 3 off the mirror, and consecutive rerolls cost progressively more
not to mention the darkness cost
a normal player will probably never get more than 1 FP off the mirror
dense star
Honestly I've never liked Fated Authority much, but yeah, FP is pretty crazy expensive by comparison
lament coral
I like FA, a lot
problem is, the mechanic is intentionally bogged to only give you 3 choices and then endlessly reroll the last 2
it's stupid
scarlet kindle
again, FF beating out priv status doesnt reallly seem like the point
it just serves as an easier to manage but less rewarding alternative
turbid needle
Fun fact: Duos count as both gods.
Sold all of my Poseidon boons between biomes and my damage is the same.
prime knoll
Does anyone know if Hera bow is supposed to refire its first shot faster after loading a cast? If I dash attack and hold attack (with rapid shot), I fire at a consistent rate. If I load a cast then dash attack, I fire the loaded shot and a regular one in rapid succession then fire at the other consistent rate.
turbid needle
Also should probably have mentioned that Exclusive Access does not stop working if you sell its prereqs.
prime knoll
Actually, scratch the whole dash attack thing. It just happens if I load and attack in any case. I use this bow all the time, and I don't think I ever noticed this. Is it recent?
hearty pilot
that shouldn't be happening
i use hera frequently and haven't noticed but i'll keep an eye out for it
mild crag
IGT only includes time where you have control of Zagreus
So menus don't count
The exceptions to this are NPC rooms (i.e. Sisyphus), cross-biome rooms (between Tartarus and Asphodel for example) and boss rooms after you've killed the boss
earnest compass
fishing also pauses IGT
modern whale
So im just slow :-;
analog lodge
And thanatos
Than doesn't use up the timer
Also the first room of each biome usually doesn't count(except for first room of the run, timer starts after you pick up the first boon)
Supergiant was really generous with the timer
covert tide
Than’s too busy to be timing you while he’s there
Always look for troves in Than rooms though because the timer stays stopped after he leaves, until you go to the next room
tepid ridge
Yes he’s much too busy thinking of edgy one-liners to name his attacks. 
Good tip!
modern whale
it freezes in game time or tight deadline? cause im trying to get sub 12 clears
torpid turret
https://i.imgur.com/nI4ELTC.jpg New fists PB 
covert tide
How on earth???
earnest ravine
NYOOM
kind cloud
meanwhile, i'm outchea churning out 25 minute runs like it's my damn day job. da heck?
quiet arrow
10?????
covert tide
I am not a speed runner or anything but I thought I was a decently fast player with times like 21 minutes
kind cloud
isn't world record something like 6 minutes right now?
kind cloud
Yeah. Taiwanese guy has it. He posts here from time to time
torpid turret
8m 06s according to speedrun.com
kind cloud
I think it depends on what heat level you're looking at.
torpid turret
Ah
surreal jolt
i think i had a perfect run like that but my ass likes to be overpowered for the final fight so i throw it all away in styx
kind cloud
He did 32 heat.
quiet arrow
Holy hell
torpid turret
Ima have to start recording these so I can put them on the leaderboard
kind cloud
He used hestia rail with artemis attack as his base.
covert tide
Are these, like, tool-assisted runs?
earnest ravine
nope!
torpid turret
I def didn't think my PB would be with fists though
kind cloud
No.
covert tide
But they are pre-seeded?
earnest ravine
They're usually done on the same seed, but there's also seedless runs.
covert tide
The 8m one I mean
torpid turret
Yeah that's seeded I believe
earnest ravine
If you restart a run after taking damage, the room layouts stay roughly the same within predictable parameters
And you can kinda sorta manipulate the RNG from there
torpid turret
^
kind cloud
Oh, I'm not sure about that. You'll have to ask him.
torpid turret
My 10:05 was not seeded, just some decent RNG in that run
earnest ravine
It's kinda hard to do so for more than like 5 or 6 rooms unless you're really good at memory or have done the seed a lot, but it's something a lot of runners do if they find a good one.
kind cloud
Yeah, there's room manipulation. I tried it for a build. It was basically impossible for me after tartarus because there's so many permutations.
torpid turret
I wonder what fastest fist time is rn
surreal jolt
does anyone have a 50 clear streak or 100?
earnest ravine
Someone in here does. Genesis, I'm pretty sure, had one over 130 at last check.
kind cloud
on what heat?
torpid turret
I hope supergiant adds a in-game leaderboard at some point
surreal jolt
i guess anything higher than 0, maybe a min of 10
kind cloud
Most veterans here can reel off giant win streaks on anything below 15 heat.
surreal jolt
i only just got to 5 heat so itll be a long time before I do 32
kind cloud
I had a streak of around 30 successful runs on shield of chaos on heat anything 20 or less.
unborn birch
I´m still thinking about what to pick for a 32 heat run, can´t even imagine having a streak with that
torpid turret
I haven't really tried to get a good streak going, just been trying to do really fast runs
earnest ravine
I think at least Routine Inspection is gonna be nice for adding extra heat now that budget cuts is gone
I don't need those bottom three rows anywho
earnest ravine
aaay
quiet arrow
Not being able to reroll Styx rooms is probs the only thing that "sucks" about it
earnest ravine
That and one level of the Elite mob upgrades wasn't so bad on 15 Heat, so that was a fun trial run.
Didn't affect anything NOTICEABLY terribly not having them, and it's kinda fun not having to be all strategic with rerolls sometimes.
quiet arrow
Honestly I don't take the 400% trap one unless it's for 32 heat
Just a pain in Elysium
Those archer things :')
earnest ravine
That's one of my normal modifiers, it's pretty free for me. aside from the runs where it isn't
unborn birch
The trap one hurts me most in Asphodel, I always manage to end up in lava
quiet arrow
Extreme measures hydra with the trap one,, rough for bow runs bc there's like, nowhere to stand fnsnhsh
untold blaze
Hydra isn't that bad honestly. Yeah the lava's a pain but if you keep closer to the main head it's usually safe. At least that was my experience against it.
harsh flower
Is it just me or are charged attacks really really bad? I can't make good use of shield's Bull Rush, the chargeable Shield boon, the spear's spin (regular or Guan Yu), or the bow's attack period. Standing still just seems so dangerous. Doing attacks/specials/casts locks you in place to some degree but nowhere near as lethally as anything that charges.
earnest ravine
It's a matter of getting used to it, really, and knowing the safe places to do it.
The bow charge up and standard spear spin are more risk than the others, though.
gloomy vine
Do you realise that whilst charging bull rush it blocks attacks?
unkempt pagoda
bull rush is practically the only base defensive attack in the game, with great mobility
earnest ravine
and the shield bull rush, depending on aspect, can be scary effective or give you free constanty DPS while being safe
Sometimes Both!
unkempt pagoda
you're right about spear spin, though it's fixed by quick spin hammer
well, somewhat anyways
bow attack is dependent on finding safe spots, if you're not doing dash strikes
however, bow dash strikes charge much quicker than regular attacks (in exchange for less damage), so you get into a rhythm of dash, attack, dash, attack, etc
untold blaze
I always feel like the guan yu spear should have the quick spin upgrade to start with. Without it, it's basically just a liability to use the charge up attack.
earnest ravine
Guan Yu's spear is technically the safest because it covers you afterwards and charges a little faster than standard, I think
unkempt pagoda
you don't have to charge it all the way, and you get the same amount of healing per hit regardless
earnest ravine
but i won't argue that the default charge rate feels a little silly after getting used to quick spin, especially on like, Hades' aspect
unkempt pagoda
but, guan yu got a lot more unsafe after the spin was changed so
(though i do like the star they added to the middle of the spin)
earnest ravine
I'm actually kinda glad it bounces off of walls now so it can hit things back and forth, but the piercing was really nice
untold blaze
Not going to lie I prefer the bouncing. Makes it more useful.
Piercing walls was okay but it basically made it the only strategy with the thing.
At least with bouncing you can rack up damage like lottery numbers.
turbid needle
@fallow niche Oh, sweet merciful Neptune, Spread Fire.
unkempt pagoda
did you see the light
unkempt pagoda
the better light
turbid needle
Just got 20 Heat with Malphon earlier tonight.
quiet gazelle
so how do you get artemis last heart? ive heard you just have to keep playing but i never seem to get it
untold blaze
Oh, fun thing about the fists and posideon. Demeter's special is technically additional hits, so if you charge it up with the posideon boon enemies go flying into the wall at insane speeds.
She probably has a lot of backed up dialog.
I know I see her a lot more often now when I pick up her boons.
uneven quest
@untold blaze Demeter punch plus Poseidon's boon got me through 32 heat lmao
just spammed the special to keep enemies off me
it was awful
it worked but it was awful
untold blaze
Man I wonder who the first person to beat 50 heat will be.
uneven quest
I saw a video where a guy beat 40 heat but he had to use a glitch that gave him infinite dashes
so 50 heat atm is most likely impossible
turbid needle
I saw a legit 40 Heat clear.
uneven quest
dang
untold blaze
Lets see you'll have 7 minutes to get through floors with no healing, tougher bosses, high health enemies that deal more damage, all of the armored ones carry special boons, no mirror, no choice on boons/losing a boon every time you go up a floor...
uneven quest
what did they use? @turbid needle
turbid needle
In one of their clears (they did one of every weapon before Nighty Night), it was Cluster Rockets Eris.
Another was Aspect of Chaos Aegis.
untold blaze
Oh yeah and traps nearly 1 shot you.
uneven quest
@untold blaze don't forget benefits package can make rooms literally impossible sometimes
untold blaze
God if you can beat meg under those conditions you deserve special dialog when you get back.
uneven quest
I recently found out she gives special dialogue at high heat lol
covert tide
I tried switching cast and special keybindings
It went well
Though I forgot to cast a lot
untold blaze
Just imagine if at 40+ heat Hades was actually proud when you started scaling floors.
uneven quest
There's a special animation where every character starts sweating
they all have big sweat droplets
untold blaze
"...Keep this between us, but good job."
turbid needle
There's some unabashed "What you've done is actually mythworthy" dialogue when you clear 10 Heat for the first time. Something along the lines of "You have no idea what you've just done, have you? You were capable of this all along, but you've wasted it."
untold blaze
I know you do get some special dialog yeah.
kind cloud
Yeah, Nyx recently said something along those lines. She said something like "it was in you all along, keep at it, you'll get what you deserve"
uneven quest
The ultimate dad emotion: "Prideful disappointment"
earnest ravine
He also has one around 20 Heat iirc? In fact I think that's the one that Schpoon is thinking of.
earnest ravine
Oh, wack. Maybe they changed the recs because it only ever happened after my 20 Heat run, then?
turbid needle
"We'll set it at 10 Heat, that should keep them busy for a while." [two days later] "We'll set it at 20 Heat, that should keep them busy for a while."
modern whale
So any tips for reducing clear times? Like a way to spawn enemies faster? or reduce the number of encounters?
turbid needle
Increasing points in Forced Overtime makes enemies spawn faster.
earnest ravine
Forced Overtime spawns enemies faster by the percentage you take
Dash Everywhere, literally Everywhere
turbid needle
Hey, what should I take? https://gyazo.com/5a99cc99bc0cfbef74a5f1462e3ee2ee
earnest ravine
Pause the game when trying to make desicions, it pauses the timer.
oh my god
Fusion I think
turbid needle
They said Olympian Favor was useless.
See, my only lightning applier right now is my Call.
Which makes me think Scintillating Feast is the way to go.
naive tusk
Yep. Scintillating Feast is the one ⛈️
vocal sky
Someone did 50 Heat and posted it on the Reddit
untold blaze
If only you could get both the top and the bottom.
kind cloud
Based on your build, I would go scintillating too. If it was a zeus build (with jolted) then i would have taken cold fusion and then splitting bolt in that order.
vocal sky
I don't think they had a video though.
untold blaze
Super Giant looks at the player who did it and uses the data to make the game harder.
earnest ravine
oh. Wait, yeah, also saying Sctintilating, I didn't see your call was the only source of lightning procs
placid arrow
Is there anyway to know how much health each boss starts with? Would love to know how much hp Hades has so I can prep better for the fight.
untold blaze
I know the hydra has exactly 7500 health, and that each head has around 2000(?)
kind cloud
hades has got to be like 15K minimum, right? I've used aphrodite's max call 3 times in 1 hades fight (and I was careful to hit him with it after he had the impervious pauses). So I did like 7500 damage with aphrodite's call alone and i recall it only took like cumulatively 40% of his health.
placid arrow
the wiki gives hp for asterius and theseus but no hp for hades on his page
kind cloud
what is asterius and theseus?
kind cloud
btw, does calisthenics pact affect bosses?
untold blaze
Yes.
untold blaze
It's fine, it's only 15% more.
kind cloud
maybe i should stop using that pact
i use max calisthenics on most 15+ heat runs
30% can be annoying with hades
kind cloud
difference between a clear and just dying oh so close.
placid arrow
does pierced butterfly stat boost go away if you switch keepsakes between worlds?
untold blaze
Yeah, at 30% Hydra's got like... 750x3... 2250... 9800 HP.
placid arrow
is it worth keeping for the whole run? aka is it strong if you can get it to like 20-30%?
kind cloud
not in my opinion. one good chaos boon can double or triple what piercing butterfly gives you
placid arrow
just fyi im only on like 2-5 heat for most weapons so still slowly climbing, been completely on my own with strats and what not up to this point
kind cloud
like there are special boons from chaos that add like 80% damage increase.
untold blaze
I mean the pierced butterfly is basically a challenge run.
So keeping it on won't hurt.
earnest ravine
It also applies to things like DOT ticks, zeus bolts, and blade rifts.
Plus sunmons and any flat damage effect like Demeter
placid arrow
ya thats where I kept wanting to use it, since it applies to ALL dmg
turbid needle
If you manage to stack Pierced Butterfly to 40% or higher, it's worth it.
That's the same boost as Privileged Status.
untold blaze
Oh, right. Yeah, that actually makes it kind of worth if you you can get that thing up to 20%.
kind cloud
i usually end up getting 2 chaos boons (i usually take combo of health increase and special damage increase) per run
earnest ravine
So if you wanna take a weapon that builds those even 20% starts getting noticeable
kind cloud
btw, is there a limit on chaos boons per run (like there is a hammer limit of 2)?
earnest ravine
Nope!
untold blaze
Is this damage calculated before or after them taking more damage for having bloodstones/two different curses on them?
earnest ravine
Take all those gates you can and have fun
Same time, it's uh... multiplicative? Whatever one heart rend isn't.
turbid needle
It goes back and forth, @untold blaze
kind cloud
it just sucks when chaos gives you common boon for something you don't totally want.
turbid needle
Or, well, it might be when you land the attack.
earnest ravine
So it isn't as effective on %based boons.
kind cloud
(like if i'm not doing a cast build, i don't care for cast damage increase or extra cast stone)
turbid needle
For instance, if you stand in Bombard with Eris the very first bomb will get the damage bonus.
placid arrow
ya I've been finding myself even skipping some chaos just because of my door options and that it can be useless some of the time
dunno if it's right or not, just what ive been feeling
untold blaze
Chaos is definitely a hard bet.
Usually you won't have the egg so you're giving up health for boons that are rarely game changers.
I can't imagine doing it on high heat and not losing the run for it if it doesn't pay off.
placid arrow
Is there one special that you should always take 100% of the time? Like maybe Ares?
turbid needle
No.
placid arrow
I know everything heavily depends on your build but didn't know if there was one that was too strong to not matter on your build
turbid needle
Your priorities will always change based on your loadout.
Okay, maybe Pressure Points from Artemis.
That adds a universal crit chance to all damage you deal.
placid arrow
and it finishes off a lot of bosses iirc
untold blaze
I all depends on your build and what you're getting. I'd avoid some things like the plague on certain weapons. Like usually I avoid artemis's attack on any weapon that has a high base damage but low attack rate. Otherwise yeah you wanna maximize damage as much as you can.
placid arrow
ares for me seems to wreck hades easy if you have a loadout for it, but I'm sure that is the same with a lot of them
turbid needle
But Deadly Strike Hestia is amazing.
untold blaze
Hestia was the bow that makes your special heat seek right?
earnest ravine
Anything with a big spiky burst is fun for Artemis
turbid needle
That's Chiron.
untold blaze
Ah, I mean then its better if you have the cast.
turbid needle
Hestia makes manual reload Rail fire a single round at 150 base damage then back to its current fire mode.
turbid needle
No big.
untold blaze
Yeah rail in general is a good one for artemis.
placid arrow
Noob question....whats DR?
earnest ravine
Damage resistance
untold blaze
Damage resistance.
placid arrow
ah k ty
untold blaze
You can push it up to the point the final boss is doing like 4 damage to you a swing.
untold blaze
When you have effectively 900 health it make YOU the boss.
turbid needle
earnest ravine
Oof
mild crag
im gonna bail now
placid arrow
I have 56 hours into the game, on 2-5 heat runs for each weapon, not quite got the mirror all the way upgraded or the keepsakes....am I doing things wrong or does that sound about right for my hours?
kind cloud
"You can push it up to the point the final boss is doing like 4 damage to you a swing."
Wut?
earnest ravine
No wrong way to play!
turbid needle
It's half-past midnight for me, take the out.
earnest ravine
Take it as fast or slow as feels comfortable.
placid arrow
Trying to grind, just wanted to make sure I wasn't making huge mistakes that really slow down my progress
kind cloud
"You can push it up to the point the final boss is doing like 4 damage to you a swing."
No, really. W.U.T.
How?
mild crag
iunno use god mode maybe
untold blaze
I forgot how exactly I did it but I basically reduced his damage by around 60% and increased by damage resistance from the front by 70%.
mild crag
how much damage does hades normally do?
untold blaze
Weak is a great thing once you stack it with its follow up.
turbid needle
Don't worry about it.
kind cloud
Weak is great on its own, but it's even more potent if you can stack it with damage reduction boons from athena and dionysus
turbid needle
The spin does 40 damage on normal mode with modifiers.
mild crag
modifiers?
untold blaze
As for how, Achilles provides a trinket that at max level makes you take 30% less from the front. Different league + bronze skin usually adds up to another 20 to 30. Dionysus provides up to 20% regulaterly when you drop below 40% hp. Demeter gives you 10% damage resistance when you don't have a crystal on you.
mild crag
40 is the base?
turbid needle
Like, going in with a super naked run and save, Hades's spin attack deals 40 base damage.
mild crag
Oki
untold blaze
Oh and you can get an alteration to your boiling blood that makes them do 25% less damage.
So yeah, you can make hades deal NOTHING.
untold blaze
This ALL before taking into consideration the shield's flat defense or arthur's 40% damage reduction.
turbid needle
'Bout to drop some hot fire in feedback, somebody stop me!
summer lotus
are damage modifiers additive or multiplicative
turbid needle
Some are additive, some are multiplicative.
mild crag
assume additive
summer lotus
like does my damage buff from hunter dash (+125%) + double edge (+30%) make 155 or 162
untold blaze
Pretty sure it works like... ((Base damage x percentage multiplier to attack) x percentage increased damage enemies take.)
mild crag
155
earnest ravine
Most additive, heart rend multiplicative.
untold blaze
I mean don't get me wrong, that's still a good combo.
mild crag
yeah it's multiplicative because it's additive to the crit multiplier which is multiplicative on the damage
untold blaze
That's 155 x 2 because double edge hits twice.
covert tide
I assume blackout is multiplicative?
mild crag
i believe it is additive as well
covert tide
It doesn’t just double it?
turbid needle
@mild crag The deed is done.
mild crag
i think all outgoing and incoming damage multipliers are added together
so sweet surrender would be additive as well
mild crag
spicy feedback
untold blaze
Crit I believe is calculated after the final number of damage.
earnest ravine
OH NO I AGREE WITH THAT
turbid needle
"Needing" a particular Hammer on half of your Aspects feels bad.
earnest ravine
It felt weird how that Aspect currently works! And that always made SENSE!
mild crag
@untold blaze you are right
untold blaze
Man I actually love Hade's aspect of the spear, but I do wish it did basically give you a move set that basically mimicked the final boss.
Just for the flavor of it and all.
turbid needle
Make the lunge just long enough to escape certain vectors of attack, you even get a bit of defense in it.
earnest ravine
Like, as is, it doesn't even have a connection to Hades from the debuff thing so it just feels like, out of place and is barely used anyways
mild crag
considering that your other moves relating to hades like boiling blood mimic its effects
hades aspect should too
untold blaze
Eh, actually hades does do the 'enemies take more damage' though-
untold blaze
True but still.
mild crag
turbid needle
Doubles the effect of Boiling/Abyssal Blood, and...?
mild crag
commands undead wretches
untold blaze
Might be fun if the punishing sweep did even more damage to enemies with your blood stone on them than normal.
turbid needle
okay, but I still want the World Sweeper
Filing that at the patent office tomorrow, if I see that in-game I want royalties!
mild crag
aspect of schpoon
turbid needle
It would have to be Stygius and a kitchen knife.
untold blaze
Imaging getting athena's aspect for your weapon, so when he uses his world sweep you use yours.
And just deflect it.
mild crag
feedback cannon
fallow niche
@turbid needle What about Spread Fire? You're feeling how crazy it is now?
turbid needle
Finally got the chance to try it, it's nuts.
fallow niche
Yeah, the dash attack is bonkers
Artemis dash makes you feel like a how Hobo With A Shotgun sounds
also that movie is great
turbid needle
I did have a Nemesis run with level 2 Heroic Hunter Dash.
140%, but no Double Edge.
fallow niche
👀
holy smokes
Yeah Nemesis and Spread Fire dash attacks are off the rails (heh RAILs)
Styg has a slower start so I would recon it isn't the best as any heat%, but considering it is a favorite of Haelian its probably going to be the 32 heat% winner this update too
turbid needle
I think it just needs a Double Edge spawn.
fallow niche
Curious how Merciful End Chaos Shield's time ends up versus the Rail this time around on any heat% though
@turbid needle Even with DE its a bit slow in tartarus before you get Priv status
The build has a really high top end
Chaos Shield has Explosive Return which just demolishes Tartarus and Spread Fire with no attack boon just deletes stuff in Tartarus regardless, so I think they have an edge
Heh, edge
But I've been wrong before!!! @turbid needle
Watch as someone makes me eat my words 😂
turbid needle
It's possible.
rotund ember
What are y'all's current Excalibur builds?
Bc I'm thinking attack speed and then Athena or Ares on attack
frosty pier
Nah, try Aphrodite and go for damage reduction. It's nuts.
rotund ember
yeah, that sounds fun
also aura slows projectiles
so even with excalibur attack speed you can land the deflects usually
frosty pier
It is a question of "what is better: to have a good defence or killing a fool before he does something?"
spring mauve
can't kill them if you're dead as well though
hushed ledge
Best offense is a good defense.
Doesn't matter how long it takes if you don't die
covert tide
I mean, Athena on attack with Arthur is kinda funny because you just stand in your circle and baseball bat everything out
burnt wharf
Gotta go fast
rotund ember
yeah no i have athena on dash and special and aphrodite on attack rn and i just got to asphodel
if i can get hermes attack things'll get real fun
rotund ember
yeah i had the aphrodite-poseidon duo thingy
so it was only 5 poms, not 10
but i was shredding
1-shot armor in elysium (breaching slash)
and i took out hades's first health bar without dying once so that was cool
final frigate
what would you say the top 3 aspects are when maxed?
rotund ember
I think the non-Greek aspects are both real strong
final frigate
i kinda like the shield and the fists
rotund ember
Yeah same
clear dome
zagerus aspect is the best for all weps
clear dome
cept spear
rotund ember
Especially fists bc dodge
rotund ember
I've always wanted to do a dodge run
clear dome
i beat the game with it at rank 1
final frigate
i was pretty good until the styx rooms 🙂
full swift
With the fists and plume you can get a 100% dodge build
final frigate
well
the chaos shield maxed ride to heat 9 was pretty easy
im just gonna do another weapon to heat 10ish
and cant decide between a maxed fist aspect or a maxed rail aspect
dense locust
I think Eris and Guan yu are maybe the strongest maxed aspects
For me at least
Rank 1 guan yu also might be the worst aspect
or maybe rank 1 chiron
hushed ledge
how do hera bow and triple shot interact?
rocky sage
what keepsake should i start with when doing guan yu?
rocky sage
chaos it is
twin mural
what would you guys say makes rush kick a good hammer upgrade for fists
dense locust
Artemis is nice
for the special
with demeter aspect
demeter on attack is always nice, as is zeus or athena
rocky sage
wait so every run i have to give ambrosia to get a companion how does this all work
frosty pier
No, you gift that Vintage to get the companion, you upgrade that companion with it, and that's all
Companions are 1-use per room 1/2/3/4/5 uses per levels. Some companions don't work in sertain situations.
kind cloud
@twin mural it locks on to an enemy and allows you to launch toward enemy. it's like the shield bullrush but with autoaim basically.
prime knoll
It's the lunge the spear never had
quaint gazelle
companions not working in certain situations like not being able to use batty in the fury fight is a nice detail
stiff stone
@low patio you can see the mirror setup in the boon menu
gloomy vine
I was literally just about to ping voyage too haha. Lucky I read the last message
final frigate
What boons do you prefer on eris aspect?
fallow niche
Bro what the hell
I just saw the final boss die on stream
and kill Zag after the end dialog started
And the entire UI broke
Oh god he can't even move at home
Yeah the whole get got softlocked
grand patrol
oh noooo
untold quiver
@final frigate I like some one of the good fast attack boons (Zeus, dio, artimis).... Posidon or Aphrodite for special because I'm using it way more ...and cluster or rocket hammer upgrade....sometimes both
fallow niche
Oh we're going over the clip
He died in the middle of Athena call
RIP that 32 heat run
It was apparently a pot that killed him after he won
I think it broke before he won, and the growing AoE hit him in the middle of the call immediately after the fight ended
Apparently you don't go invulnerable when you win huh
And the call apparently doesn't stop pot traps
untold quiver
There are some things that can damage you after a room clear......most damage drops off and the calls stop at room clear
fallow niche
It was the last fight of the game
he started dialog when he died
Like it was in visual novel mode and the Zag dying anim was superimposed over the dialog box 
untold quiver
They probably just need to update the pot to go no damage after room clear
full swift
Supposedly mighty reflecting shields around you do not protect your feet
Though dying in dialogue sounds really sketchy
mint vortex
@turbid needle Responding to your feedback on the spear's Hades aspect: you can already do a lunging spin attack. You just dash while you have the spin charged up. You can even dash through barriers and hit enemies on the other side.
untold quiver
Was he using a seeded run? I've seen a lot of seeded runs go that fast cause you get your time down learning the rooms
fallow niche
@full swift The actual run was 12:37 IGT
@untold quiver Not seeded
Seeded runs go sub-10 easily
untold quiver
Nice
fallow niche
Pretty much all the aspects can get 15 minute or shorter runs with a well crafted build
10 minutes and less is usually reserved for incredibly powerful builds, seeded or not
Having good synergy, a decent starting hammer, and an early priv status does a lot of work
full swift
I guess you could cut a lot of time by not doing all rooms in styx
spring mauve
it's not possible to 1 sack it?
fallow niche
No it is not
spring mauve
what a scam
spring mauve
oh so... it doesn't matter which doors you enter
definitely a scam
what was hades thinking 🤔
fallow niche
No, not really? But miniboss rooms are always faster so I do miniboss > regular room always
Seems to have a decent chance at giving me 2 sack
solid cairn
Forge correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t see you on speedrun.com
fallow niche
Not this update everything has been reset
solid cairn
Before that even
spring mauve
*** 5 m 5 1 s ***
full swift
Can you get 10 to 15 minutes with every weapon?
full swift
How do you get double real time to IGT
spring mauve
and probably some menu stuff
fallow niche
Yeah
full swift
No weird tricks?
spring mauve
hydra is the hardest boss ngl
fallow niche
If you instantly kill the Hydra the timer stops
All of the heads from both waves pop out at once though lol
full swift
You burn its neck with a torch?
fallow niche
@spring mauve Final boss is much harder imo, that spin attack is evil
full swift
How do you even oneshot hydra
solid cairn
@fallow niche how did poseidon get nerfed
spring mauve
idk by the time I get to the final boss it's easier than most of the times I get to hydra
full swift
It has like 3k hp
fallow niche
@solid cairn Artemis cast, flurry cast, dual shot all got extreme nerfs, and you can't get her legendary without BOTH tier 2 boons
Build isn't dead, but its faaar slower
@full swift It has more than 3k iirc, but you use priviledged status, Meg's keepsake, and a ton of burst at the very start
I have only seen one full skip since the new update
Tons of partial skips though
solid cairn
What’s the optimal weapon now
fallow niche
Nobody knows yet
I'd bet Chaos Shield or Eris Rail though
Probably Chaos Shield imo
We're back to the old best weapon from two updates ago
trail timber
woah
rocky cave
Does Cursed Slash not trigger on dash attacks? :/
spring mauve
what if the optimal weapon was the friends we made along the way
fallow niche
I don't think so, one of the reasons why I never use it @rocky cave
spring mauve
companions and keepsakes only speedrun?
is it possible?
(no attack, special, cast, maybe call idk)
dash if it doesn't do damage maybe
rocky cave
Damn, I only took it cos I had Double Edge and a bunch of extra dashes. It really needs to state that in the description, or at least a tooltip. That was shaping up to be such a good run.
versed ibex
what are the two pre-reqs for Artemis's legendary now?
fallow niche
Dual Shot and Exit Wounds
versed ibex
wait, AND exit wounds?
fallow niche
Yes
No other Legendary has reqs like this
Idk why they don't just nerf the actual damage, stats, or number of casts it gives you
spring mauve
@olive ice codex mod will let you do that in its latest update
the uhh suggestion you put
versed ibex
I don't remember grabbing exit wounds during my Ares/Artemis run and I got the Legendary... or was the change done in one of the patches after the Nighty Night update?
Exit wounds is useless for a lot of cast builds
olive ice
@olive ice codex mod will let you do that in its latest update
@spring mauve You're talking about training?
spring mauve
codex mod lets you load traits from a collection of traits you had before
versed ibex
ugh if that's true it blows. Why would I want exit wounds for Demeter, Ares, or Dionysis?
spring mauve
as well as spawn boons/upgrade items as you please, you can do it inside the training area
fallow niche
They make some pretty questionable decisions when nerfing things honestly
Like when they nerfed Merciful End by just making it the rarest boon in the game to find
versed ibex
Exit wounds was already questionable with stygian soul
olive ice
codex mod lets you load traits from a collection of traits you had before
@spring mauve well, that's great, but I'm always preffer to have such obvious (more or less) functionality in main game than using mods for that.
spring mauve
yeah I'm just saying that if you need that feature for what you want to do right now
go ahead
olive ice
Thx, mate 🙂 I'll take a look
versed ibex
unless exit wounds procs with stygian whenever one of the bloodstones embedded in enemies expires?
fallow niche
No clue, haven't bothered with it since the nerf
olive ice
Btw, guys, is there any mod or just web-page with actual build-trees?
fallow niche
What do you mean by build trees?
spring mauve
you mean collection of boons and upgrades?
no
if a website exists it'd need to continuously data-mine to stay up to date
fallow niche
I mean boons are listed on the wiki but not builds
olive ice
I mean some interactive page that allows you to see how your build will look like and what are pre-requisites for it.
spring mauve
building is kinda an odd concept in this game because... it's not like you can count on anything in particular going the way you want it to
but maybe very general 'build' categories is what you want
fallow niche
Not true
olive ice
Yes, indeed. But you have some minor control over it, so it would be useful for some extention
fallow niche
While you can't 100% guarantee getting specific boons, we can guarantee gods with keepsakes and rerolls allow you to construct a build very easily
You may not get the exact build you set out for from the start, but once you get a few pieces you can definitely work with it
spring mauve
well I could easily make a script that gives you every single boon and upgrade at once
then you can just press B and search for days through it xd
but I doubt it'd be that helpful
fallow niche
I just rely on general game sense, with enough play you can just memorize it all pretty easily imo
All you have to know is that you reroll Poseidon and Zeus and all will be good 
olive ice
Well, you cannot memorize all the updates. E.g. some of legendary boons' conditions were changed recently, so wiki does not seem to be reliable source on that now.
spring mauve
oh I forgot there's supposedly a boon re-roll feature
I saw it in the code but I've never actually seen it used
olive ice
@fallow niche I disagree. Have you tried Twin Fists + Poseidon builds?
fallow niche
They don't change things drastically often enough to mess up your memory
And Poseidon on twin fists is baaad
Like on anything, really
His best boon is his dash and its good on most things
olive ice
@spring mauve it's actually here - alternative upgrade for reward reroll in Mirror
spring mauve
ah I didn't use many of those alternate versions yet
fallow niche
Fated Authority is still better atm
The boon rerolls need start at more than 4 to be good imo
And should impact hammers
olive ice
Forge, sorry, i disagree again. Lightning Strike - with dmg of lightning about 15 you get +50% damage against single target+ some measure of crowd control
spring mauve
well in testing it's better to guarentee the type of reward you get than to re-roll upgrades
cus if I'm trying to figure out if my changes to how darkness is given to the player work, I want to see darkness in the next room not anything else etc
versed ibex
yeah, having only four rerolls is bleh considering every subsequent reroll costs more AND you aren't really guaranteed different boons
fallow niche
Whenever I choose Poseidon the run always lasts like 17 minutes or something, its really slow
spring mauve
I'm not really in the same mindset of a player who's trying to build stat
olive ice
Demeter Aspect + Thunder Flourish + Double Strike = getting Hydra phase done in just one charged special
fallow niche
You're asking for a lot of specific boons
versed ibex
re: artemis legendary, not that I doubt you, but where do you see that Exit Wounds specifically is a pre-req? It's not listed in the patch notes and ofc the Wiki isn't updated yet
olive ice
Forge, it depends on whether you get second tier on him or not.
olive ice
Yeah< i know
olive ice
But you were initially saying that you should reroll both 🙂
fallow niche
@versed ibex its in the patch notes, they're just not descriptive with what they did for some reason (which is evil)
They just said its harder to get
olive ice
As for Poesidon - also works with fists: you can dash-strike opponent into wall
versed ibex
yeah, it jus says "harder to get"... but that doesn't mean it's Exit Wounds specifically
fallow niche
Kossetsu checked the reqs in the game and its now both tier 2's
olive ice
And then - just wallbounce them, like in Tekken 7 🙂
fallow niche
Artemis only has 2 tier 2 cast boons
So yes it IS Exit Wounds
this is what it used to be
Now it requires both instead of just one
olive ice
So basically either you get hunga-bunga damage build with getting legendary, or just "so-so"
pale bridge
i did 3 runs with true shot and dual shot and was still not able to get it, oh well, will just keep trying
referring to exit wounds ofc
versed ibex
yeah... I guess I'll leave some feedback on this
fallow niche
They need to be more descriptive with what they do in the patch notes as well imho
spring mauve
MoreAmmoTrait =
{
OneFromEachSet =
{
{ "ArtemisAmmoExitTrait" },
{ "ArtemisBonusProjectileTrait" },
},
},
@pale bridge heh... it took me 5 complete runs to get this legendary Pre-patch...
fallow niche
Yup there it is @spring mauve @versed ibex
spring mauve
so yeah
fallow niche
ty Magic ❤️
olive ice
@spring mauve wait a sec. Is it open-config? or some reverce compilation?
pale bridge
i don't need the legendary, just Exit Wounds @olive ice
spring mauve
it's a little complicated
the .exe is compiled and contains some base loading code
all of the game logic data that is used once you load a save
is in .lua files
you can access plainly
spring mauve
(and edit plainly)
spring mauve
yeah well, you'd actually need to make one that parses the data correctly
versed ibex
ty!
olive ice
Yes, but parser is more or less a matter of patience if devs have consistent data-model here
spring mauve
not always the case there are some like hard-coded exceptions to some stuff layered in other script files
olive ice
Should not be overcomplicated and needs to be done only once.
spring mauve
but usually it's all nice and open and dynamic like that
versed ibex
I guess if there's one thing I'm kind of meh about is how there are some combinations with very little synergies and if you get super unlucky you might as well just die on purpose (not that I've ever done that or anything.............)
spring mauve
if you have 3 death defies and your HP is pretty high
olive ice
Basically, task is to build graph/tree based on data structure.
Should be ok with Java
spring mauve
dying on purpose is pretty... annoying
versed ibex
lol it is. I had to let Theseus wail on me for like a minute before he finally managed to kill Zag
olive ice
You have option to Give Up
olive ice
Yes.
versed ibex
if you Give Up you lose all your gained resources
spring mauve
but... what if you want to progress
fallow niche
If you Give Up your next run will have the same seed as the one you gave up on
It basically just sends you back in time
To right before the run
That awful seed you just had? Its still there
olive ice
Ah, ok.
Actually, I've ended game intentionally about 2 or 3 times. Usually I'm playing till the end with any kind of rolls
spring mauve
^ I think that's the point of the game even
versed ibex
not just right before the run... it doesn't even keep any changes you made to weapons/trinkets or heat level so you have to od that all over again too
olive ice
Forge, yes, but even one choice changes all next runs, even with same seed.
spring mauve
give up is what I WANT to do because I want to lose progress so I can keep testing
but then I have to re-do the config for the run
😫
olive ice
Yeah, but I usually go into Zag's room before start - it forces save.
fallow niche
Seeds have certain preferences to certain gods even if the chambers you get are different, you might see the same spread of gods
spring mauve
ye
olive ice
Yes, but boons might be different. As well as rarity
spring mauve
rarity definitely
fallow niche
It will be different but how different is the question oftentimes
olive ice
Also, rerolls of reward seems to be independent of seed more or less
fallow niche
No what you reroll into is dependent on the seed too
Trust me, I've done a lot of seed manipulation doing speedrunning, its honestly really annoying
Sometimes I had to reroll to get a specific outcome in the other door
versed ibex
I do wish there was a simple "just kill me now" option
spring mauve
so... let me be clear, rarity is entirely not determined by seed, at all
spring mauve
the function it uses for rarity doesn't take a seed input
fallow niche
I can guarantee the rarity of all the boons I get in all of Tartarus
spring mauve
it will use a global RNG which should change all the time
fallow niche
I can guarantee each enemy, each boon, each rarity of each boon offered
And yes, it changes all the time, but only by certain actions
olive ice
Mate, you know that seed does not even defines Chaos boons, right?
spring mauve
normally RNG will change every time it's read
but I guess they are not quite doing that there
I didn't look that low into the code
fallow niche
@olive ice Yes it does, I can guarantee what Chaos boons I get in Tartarus as well
Just don't break any pots
fallow niche
This is something speedrunners have been doing in seeded runs for months now
olive ice
Standard RNG in most languages are usually based on current time, in ms.
fallow niche
Its not based on current time at all for Hades
Its based on your actions in between rooms after enemies are clear
And enemy patrols
olive ice
This is something speedrunners have been doing in seeded runs for months now
@fallow niche "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." 🙂
fallow niche
(as well as what you buy in the shops and stuff like that)
versed ibex
fwiw, I don't do speedruns myself but I love watching them, and I'm always fascinated by all the RNG manipulation
fallow niche
Also just because you don't find it fun doesn't mean other people don't