this isn't necessarily limited to spear, but for weapons with faster attack, something that stacks like poison and chill are decent; on the other hand, a slower special tends to have a higher base damage value so they go well with boons that upgrade the damage by percentage like poseidon's or aphrodite's. That said, that isn't to say that's always the case, and when you take crit in mind it changes things a bit. Personally, for spear I like to get deflect/athena on the special because it's a quick two hit move that works well with the deadly reversal duo boon (athena/artemis).
#h1-builds-and-combat
nimble lantern
is there an objectively best aspect for the spear?
clear dome
guan yu, ofc
nimble lantern
I'm playing with hades but it often seems a bit slow on many enemies
civic barn
that's going to start arguments; i don't think there is especially in the case of spear, but you'll find a lot of guan yu supporters right now
civic barn
the upgrades really change things for a spear so I don't think it's a fair argument (or for most of the other weapons)
gloomy vine
I prefer achilles spear. That's just personal taste though, I think it's most fun
civic barn
that said, i think the one with the least cons is probably the zagreus aspect
main citrus
Guan Yu is a pain if you don't get the quick spin as your first upgrade >.>
Also, it lacks the best upgrade for me, Flurry Jab :p
clear dome
the massive spin is also viable for guan yu
main citrus
It is, but I still don't like the slow charge, especially when you are used to running the pact with Forced Overtime always on.
Also, the one upgrade that gives extre benefits to armored enemies. The spirits that shoot at you get extremely nasty with double speed or homing attacks
civic barn
i actually haven't managed to clear a 20+ run with guan yu yet because of that; its partially luck, partially the aspect not fitting me, i think, but that's why i prefer a less specialized weapon
main citrus
Shield is usually best bet for high heat runs because it's a safe choice :p
But again, i am still trying to complete 6 heat with all weapons >>
civic barn
i'm trying to at least clear every heat up to 24 heat on everything weapon because that's the amount that will get me all the titan blood i should need in thsi game
main citrus
Managed Shield and Fists so far. Gotta love Talos Aspect 👀
civic barn
assuming we have another 4 more 16 titan blood upgrade aspects
will think about heat 32 and above after that
though i might just take a break and play something else for a bit while they prepare the next update
main citrus
I still wanna grab the last two Fated Prophecies before I stop again.
Getting this in my last run was extremely silly
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/783003530779275565/3A1582F649BC208C54F18FB6958D0F7E941E17D2/
Need to try Fully Loaded with recharging cast with the Bow someday
gloomy vine
Recharging cast feels so much better than having to run around trying to collect the crystals
main citrus
I love it. Fully Loaded just makes it stupid and I love it.
Need to try other combinations as well, like Ice Wine.
civic barn
there's certain builds where recharging is definitely nicer, but i think as is, the game still prefers infernal soul just because there's no downside to having more casts at once
like, damage wise it's still much more preferable
terse vine
Hera with returning casts is wicked.
Never got Fully Loaded with recharging though, that seems fun.
stable onyx
dont mind the lvl 10 dash lmao
i got the duo for +1 pom
and i bought 2 poms and i didnt get any of the boons i want lol
hybrid galleon
stoic crest
I like holy excalibur
shadow presence + shadow slash + 80% exposed damage + excalibur's final hit = 1500 damage
nice.
naive chasm
Man y'all are making me think there's a whole ton of stuff I still haven't discovered, though I've only played like 30 hours in 5 days lmao
frosty pier
I played during the whole year with +200 runs, and I'm still find stuff that's new.
untold quiver
It was a bit of a playstyle shock to start with the gauntlets....but I'm starting to like them more...... deflect attack is super sweet
slow bane
well. i got into Elyisum on my 17th attempt
i'd say i'm making good progress.
Also managed to get the musician out of confinement
stable onyx
so how does fiery presence and damage control work
does it apply after the damage control or nah?
nvm tested it
it works
turbid needle
yeah, that's the big minus to be honest in a way
warped oxide
With the sword, spear, and gun.. there are upgrades that I feel dramatically buff you
obtuse cipher
I really appreciate the extra range tbh
turbid needle
on Demeter area special might be stronger, but still though
funny thing, it feels same for me with Arthur Sword...
restive widget
just got the farthest I've gotten with those fists 🙂
zinc oasis
Arthur sword + 200% damage when you backstab + 300% damage on armor + Artemis/Athena/Aphrodite
4k damage lmao
Really feel good
twin mural
i was curious about something after doing a run with chiron + relentless volley + frost flourish + arctic blast
was arctic blast ever nerfed? or did i hear wrong from somewhere? because this is a combo that feels really good, almost gross even
frosty pier
Not directly, I think. There was changes to amount of stacks you need to blow it.
warped oxide
I swear Hazard bomb is almost impossible toblose with
To lose*
Hazard bomb + crit chance
turbid needle
yeah... Bouldy is probably best companion by far far far far... margin for me
iron shale
and i love the fists xD
turbid needle
the idea you can drop him in middle of hades fight just makes him so much better than any other companion really
iron shale
really like the extra range upgrade
and one builds were you normal attack alot the dash strike while attacking
or the armor breaker
turbid needle
fists are generally alright...
but you don't feel nearly as much power from getting the hammers as other weapons
most of the power comes from the duo really
iron shale
wow
there are lesser dumb ones as well
like with zeus shield
there are so many dead pulls imo
twin mural
oh right uhh, how do you talk to bouldy
turbid needle
well... I'm gonna be rude here kinda... zeus shield, doesn't have anything over any other shield really
iron shale
you can attack while using special
and its a consistent soruce for stuff like poison or chill
and it eats the extra shield from pact
turbid needle
Stacking effects are still better with the chaos shield though
turbid needle
dunno, gonna try the lvl 5 then
guess I'm way too used flying with chaos shield
which I find consistently insane with every god except poseidon really lol
iron shale
oh yeah at lvl 1
it does liek nothing
the upgrades are really important
and like poseidon on special with zeus duo boon
is really strong
quiet arrow
do you guys target certain hydra heads too or do you just kill whatever
miss me with the pink ones, especially with extreme measures on
turbid needle
depends, usually if you don't have aoe you just kill whatever is closest
kind wind
no but usually i start at left side xD
quiet arrow
i have a mighty disliking for the pink heads
turbid needle
meh, if you mean the bloodless spawning ones ?
kind wind
i mean yeah their aoe is really annoying
unborn trellis
green -> red -> purple -> yellow are priority for me
turbid needle
bloodless are clutter, best to ignore them and kill every hydra head
twin mural
@quiet arrow yup. games like doom have taught me that enemy hierarchies are good game design (unless you color code them too much or something)
i use the same pattern as suipe, since clutter means less clarity
and the less i can see and understand what's happening on my screen with this game, the more likely i am to die
quiet arrow
the pink/purple heads are just a pain to deal with extreme measures
turbid needle
ok... I guess it's not that bad, 14:09 with 16 heat
calm ember
Once you get Orpheus and Eurydice to the Keyhole when do I get to give them Ambrosia?
errant narwhal
i love this weapon
placid path
I start killing the hydra heads till I see one of them shooting the squeleton beam
final warren
I lose so much health and DD when using fists as I face punch my way to a bloodlust.
kind wind
what keepsake do you use guys?
solid cairn
How good is Zeus attack on fists
placid path
Gods keepsakes for the interactions or list of fate things I'm missing
Then Elysium or Styx I go for the tooth
haughty surge
@solid cairn from my experience, it is super good
high attack speed means a lot tons of clearing
final warren
@kind wind Zeus on attack + jolted is very fun, especially with the hammer that give you a never ending hit stream. Combined with Talos to pull peeps in that don't want to be punched in the face, and it's 
Again, I lose a lot of health with fists, and I know I can play it better, but I get... Distracted.
By the punching things to death.
strange bay
solid cairn
I really gotta remember to use shady in styx just for the money
could help me snag a titan blood or diamond here and there potentially
prime knoll
I've had good success with Artemis and Zeus on attack
solid cairn
or buy other stuff
prime knoll
Aye. I forget to use those keepsakes in general
solid cairn
is demeter aspect considered the best for fists now
tidal thorn
I love Demeter.
Punch punch punch BOOM.
I actually really don't like Talos at this point either. Can never get a confident feeling build with it and always lose steam in Elysium.
analog lodge
(One punch man theme intensifies)
solid cairn
Demeter aspect with Artemis special is a beautiful thing
solid cairn
What level
nimble magnet
I think its around 12-13
analog lodge
You eventually get used to it, then you do higher heat and get stomped again.
errant narwhal
that sounds pretty high to me
analog lodge
12 is my baseline, deadline + overtime + 1 extreme measures
errant narwhal
i no longer consistently get through styx ever since i stopped playing and came back to it, 10+ heat sounds rough
i think i can do 5 with good boons but damn
i die to hades half the time lol
analog lodge
Hades is the kind of game where practice matters, I tend to go for rough stuff though and have been upping the enemy damage so I can learn to handle higher heat
(given that 12 heat is rather low for me and I can consistently get to hades with 0-1 death defiance)
Currently I plan to push until I can do at least one 32 heat to get the final statue
vital karma
I tried something interesting: use Twin Fist, get Aphrodite's boon which caused Charm, and get Hades charmed! Charm can interrupt the boss if he is casting, then he becomes confused and vulnerable; when he wakes up he just tries to cast the same skill as the last time. EZ
Fists attack so fast that he is highly possible to be charmed
turbid needle
it also depends on what modifiers you get...
I find it easier to go for Forced overtime + Tight Deadline since they synergize together kinda
surreal jolt
"Arthur Aspect - defensive aura prevents floor traps from activating"
cosmic shadow
:shadesmile: Quake Cutter (Fists): reduced damage; stomp now modified by Boon effects
oh that is lovely
being flat really hurt that upgrade
mighty ermine
rush kick getting even worse just makes it more of a never-pick to me i guess
rocky vigil
I had a high heat run last night and I discovered something very unfortunate:
If you have the Benefits Package (Enemy Perks) and the damage protection (Blue Hearts) active simultaneously in a room with horde enemies (Numbskulls, Vermin, etc)
lament coral
Trap Pact: +400% trap damage, aspect of Arthur: no
rocky vigil
There’s a specific perk that they can receive that lets them regenerate blue hearts off of each other and stack up to 5-6 hearts if you’re not careful
surreal jolt
I assume thats fixed
cause there were a lot of complaints of unkillable rooms cause of perk feedback loops
hearty ice
has anyone come across the thing where stacking Poseidon's rapture ability launches an enemy back further and further? is this a bug or a feature
rocky vigil
Really? That was fast, great job SGG!
Depends on the move you’re using Cakedust
What weapon is that on?
hearty ice
the blade
rocky vigil
Nova?
Any upgrades?
The Nova naturally knocks back so it’s understandable that Poseidon would boost that
surreal jolt
@hearty ice yes thats a boon. Where any knock back effect from a poseidon boon happens twice
rocky vigil
Ah yes that too
surreal jolt
there is also the boon that causes a splash aoe wave when they hit a wall with a knock back
and itll cause them to fly to a different direction, if they hit another wall, itll repeat until they hit nothing on a rebound
IE: Styx chambers become press 1 button and they pinball around till death
hearty ice
oh cool! thank you :0. i just started noticing i would hit smaller enemies and they would fly across the screen, i was like. hmm
rocky vigil
No problem happy to help!
fossil wing
@rocky vigil that particular combination should no longer be possible
rocky vigil
@fossil wing Thank you so much
rancid shore
any chance you could tell us which ones in particular were removed?
naive tusk
Update hype 
inland meadow
does yarn stack with itself?
frosty pier
yes
You can grab enough of them to knit a sweater
It is after all a CHANCE for a better rarity, so yeah.
naive tusk
Why aren't you saying yes to Zeus? 😦
frosty pier
naive tusk
I feel you now
simple shard
anyone else having an issue with demeters Nourished Soul not actually healing upfront as advertised in 26388? id post about it on the feedback thread but im not able to post for some reason
lament coral
which one was 26388? Before today's patch?
Are you sure you don't have healing reduction items or pact?
simple shard
didnt have heal reduction items or pact, this is the mar 14 update (confined to phone internet for... three more weeks?)
if its since been patched then grear, but thought id do my due diligence
errant narwhal
the feedback channel isnt for bugs (which you can report with F10 in-game), but to post in that channel, check the pins in it
long sierra
Anyone know what perks were banned from what enemies with benefits package patch?
errant narwhal
they have instructions for it
naive tusk
Woo! Finally payed all the contractor's improvements 
rancid shore
is anyone else having trouble doing more than one summon? like in a room after the room where you do the first summon
i meant a room succeeding the room where you do the first one
I seem to have no problem with it now, but it wouldn't let me summon while in the asterius mini-boss room
rocky sage
does anyone know when the concertation punch upgrade for the fists resets?/
unkempt pagoda
it should reset per combo, so after 5 hits
not sure if it counts the extra dash-strike from rolling strike though
rocky sage
thoughts about the explosive upper?
mighty ermine
extremely good with aspect of demeter in particular
rocky sage
i enjoyed the magnet far more haha
mighty ermine
especially if you can get used to doing dash-strikes followed immediately by the dash-upper
rocky sage
i find the magnet almost broken
mighty ermine
it's just that the explosion count increases with demeter's charged specials, so you can get five rapid-fire +50% dash-upper explosions at once
rocky sage
i found the ranged knuckles to be amazing
main citrus
Talos Aspect is my fave :o
Still missing one upgrade to complete the Fists prophecy tho >>
rocky sage
dont spoil me the fourth aspect plz
main citrus
Talos is the magnetic one lmao
rocky sage
i know
main citrus
There's no 4th aspect yet, only for the Sword and Spear
chrome root
the bottom case are summons
chrome root
you get backup styled by whoever gave you it with some limitations
main citrus
Those you can summon during your run. Each upgrade gives one extra use to each companion.
rocky sage
i was told u need to give enough nectar to nyx or skully
lament coral
@rocky sage you want spoilers or not?
rocky sage
thats cool
lament coral
because it's kinda spoilery
main citrus
It is spoilery as hecc lol
rocky sage
oh
chrome root
would say jump to spoiler chat for the reveal 😄
lament coral
how far into the game are you?
rocky sage
50 runs
lament coral
have you beaten the final boss?
lament coral
ok, so you've met Meg, Dusa, Thanatos, Sisyphus, and Skelly, right?
main citrus
Keep giving nectar until you get some job to do that'll unlock giving ambrosia, then you get the thingies :p
Nice spoiler lmao
rancid shore
I occasionally can't summon my companion for seemingly no reason??
Anyone else experiencing this?
main citrus
But you kinda gave it since we were talking about the companions lol
lament coral
@rancid shore can't summon certain companions during certain boss fights
rancid shore
I'm using Shady
lament coral
can't summon out of combat
rancid shore
I'm in combat
lament coral
still have charges?
rancid shore
yes
lament coral
that's odd
main citrus
I know you can't summon ||Than and Meg while fighting Hades. Skelly is fine.||
lament coral
on today's patch?
main citrus
Also, Shady is great if you use the Mirror perk that lets you heal with Darkness (which you should, since it's the best of the two)
main citrus
It gives you a heckton of money as well if you get some Chaos boon for it (and Poseidon). Good if you wanna run to get Diamonds/Blood in Styx :p
Talking about darkness, I did a darkness run these days.
Good stuff.
I got like, two 250% and one 262% buffs before the Hydra. Silly crazy.
rancid shore
Alright, I F10'd that one. Thanks for the help.
mighty ermine
two roiling curses, +76% and +74% more foes at once http://puu.sh/FlGKh/43bc620b02.jpg
earnest ravine
That looks super fun, I'm jealous
They almost NEVER line up for me when I try for that orz
mighty ermine
sadly jury summons is only at +20% so it could have been more 😔
earnest ravine
Someday!
versed tide
more foes curse must make Tight Deadline impossible to complete
especially with new champions
rancid shore
I just did one with max jury summons. It's not as bad as I thought it'd be tbh
uneven quest
I don't really know what I was supposed to do here. This was on 33 heat but was hands down probably the best Excalibur run I’ve gotten to the point where I was breezing through for the most part until this happened. I suppose I could’ve tried to use the aura more but I doubt that would’ve helped much. Maybe if I would have rushed in immediately but I probably still would have gotten blown up since they have super speed.
versed tide
you can't, it's a combination of two unbeatable modifiers depending on your setup
hollow sorrel
you can't. You lost because of RNG
uneven quest
dang, that's what I figured but I hate to lose just because something is impossible
feels bad man
rancid shore
They should really cap that buff somehow
Like cap the number of hearts an enemy can have or cap the number of enemies that can have that buff
(then they wouldn't have had to remove it from certain enemies too)
uneven quest
I feel like to really make double benefits package work they're going to have to spend a lot of time specifying which enemies can get what double benefits
honestly idk how you guys feel but the only benefit so far I've found to be fun to play against is the one where the enemies get stands or ghosts to help them out. I really like having to search out the real one.
super speed and extra hearts for me are just frustrating, at least since I mainly play with double benefits
hollow sorrel
They should just disable the heart benefit until they can figure out how to actually fix it
inner heath
Yeah, benefits package can be so much fun, but the auto-lose rooms just feel awful
I honestly don't know if the heart benefit is a balanceable ability, and when you have the other PoP that gives two static hearts, I'm not 100% sure it's even needed. Currently, my opinion is to straight remove that one, but then again, I'm no game dev for a reason
quiet arrow
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/376177598822350855/689560382695538688/unknown.png i straight up could not hit this enemy, the only thing i could hit it with is my cast
not even from the top side :(
inner heath
^F10 that one, if you still can and didn't
quiet arrow
oh huh yeah i guess i shhould do that
i thought it was bc i took long knuckle at first but
not even my special could hit
uneven quest
Yeah the blue hearts is honestly the worst benefit. It's the only benefit I've ran into the makes rooms feel impossible or just makes them actually impossible
ruins weapons like Excalibur
inner heath
I'm also not a big fan of the teleportation, and to the lesser extent the pull. The teleportation sucks because you can just have great positioning and reaction time, but then an enemy can teleport behind you mid-attack and chunk your HP with little you can ever do about it.
The pull annoys me only on the flame wheels, really. Not being able to outdash them with a melee weapon and being pulled in just feels awful
uneven quest
oh yeah the pull plus super speed is ridiculous
inner heath
So hopefully they changed that one today when they said they disallowed certain combos
uneven quest
if you get stuck your done
clear haven
Because my strategy is to flail violently at the enemy with little regard for my own safety, most of the perks haven't had a big impact on me.
inner heath
...well, yes, that may be because a difference in strategies then
main citrus
So far what's your best times, my dudes?
Got my first sub 20 with the Fist, but had a real good 21m run with the Zagreus Rail
quiet arrow
i don't remember the heat i had but i had 21m with stygius nemesis aspect
uneven quest
I'm pretty sure I had 18 minutes one time but I'd need to check
was a ridiculous run with the Ares Athena duo boon on the Chaos shield
main citrus
Can't remember what was my combo to do my 19m run need to check in the files
inner heath
I've had an 18 something, but I typically don't go for time. In fact, I play with lots of time unless I'm using the pact that forces it (ie. I constantly check rooms for gold/wells/troves/fish etc before moving on)
main citrus
I'll never run that one again because I hate being time-limited. But sometimes the run just flows.
inner heath
yeah, I don't like running it either. I only use it on high heat where I have to have it on
main citrus
LIke this rail run. Went for maxed Zagreus aspect and chose to use Zeus for the extra damage. First upgrade, got the faster shots +6 ammo. Also used Demeter but never got Cold Fusion, and somehow managed to get Athena+Artemis duo lmao
vernal kestrel
can the devs make the explosion from the mini chariots explode the orange egg-like bombs? otherwise, amazing game.
main citrus
Second upgrade was piercing shots. Then things just flew by.
versed tide
I feel like Tight Deadline should add time troves
ashen grail
or at least carry over time between biomes
like you have 28 minutes total, not just 7 minutes each
rancid shore
Tight Deadline wouldn't be bad on high heat if it just stacked the time you saved onto the time for the next area
versed tide
or time rooms even
main citrus
Elysium kills Deadline runs, I feel :p
atomic mist
Elysium is why I don't take Deadline
rancid shore
I can clear either of the first two in 4 minutes on decent heat but there's no way I can clear Elysium at the same rate
main citrus
Fun thing: I only did a Tight Deadline run once, to clear the Prophecy. Sword run, got high 23 minutes on i, was my fastest run at the moment.
ashen grail
also, things I learned on my infinite cast/dash 50 heat run:
Dionysus cast is the best all around cast on hera bow, great balance of aoe and room clearing. makes it a pain to see though. zeus and poseidon are second best.
Athena dash is not to be underestimated. next best dash is poseidon dash and ares dash.
Spamming the cast button and dash button at the same time leaves some vulnerable frames, where spamming dash alone does not
warping linking enemies were the most likely to cause me damage out of nowhere. Warping enemies in general are a pain.
Elysium is defniitely the hardest part. So many traps, and so much time wasted on greatshields and soul popping.
"No choice" is awful.
main citrus
Did another run right after with no Tight Deadline, rail run. Super low 23 lol
I posted like twice already, but I got Hunting Blades + Fully Loaded with Dual Cast and recharging casts.
Spamming 8 blades constantly without needing to pickup feels so good, not gonna lie.
Also yes, Athena Dash best dash
ashen grail
I feel you could get some real hilarity with zeus and artemis duo with the infinite casts glitch
because you'll litter the battlefield with blloodstones
main citrus
Ouch lol
tfw the Artemis/Zeus Duo is best used when you have a Chaos curse that makes you unable to pickup casts.
ashen grail
I only get offered that duo when I have regenerating stones on though
main citrus
I don't like that duo, not gonna lie >>
Best Artemis duos for me are with Athena and Ares
ashen grail
maybe when you have stones regenerating you count as the lightning source, if you have that trait? more regenerating stones = more lightning damage/procs
otherwise literally useless except to sell if you have regen stones
main citrus
My fave duo is still Sea Storm tho. Props if you also get Second Wind with it.
ashen grail
sea storm also procs on shield knockbacks
main citrus
All knockbacks, if I am not mistaken. Sword probably does it too.
hearty pilot
does rupture also trigger on non poseidon knockbacks?
main citrus
Yes.
main citrus
I think so?
I am pretty sure I saw regular knockback trigger Rupture, but I may just be crazy.
naive tusk
As far as I know, Razor Shoals only works with Poseidon's knockbacks
hearty pilot
damn
main citrus
Need to do another Poseidon Rail run. Also known as Wall Slam Forever.
ashen grail
And yeah. I feel there needs to be some further power boosts available to reliably do high heat runs, especially while the fewer choices curse is a thing
that and the deadline seems to trip most people up
solid cairn
I suck at this game I beat 16 heat a while back and took a break and I can’t even find a weapon I like using apart from guan yu but that was nerfed
hearty pilot
lmao im stuck at 8 heat cause i suck at dodging with FO
solid cairn
Maybe my new weapon will be the Arthur sword
hearty pilot
did guan yu even get nerfed that badly? it was just piercing projectiles right
hearty pilot
was it tho
solid cairn
Yes
hearty pilot
hm
idk i dont use guan yu a lot but it just seems like they removed the ability to cheese with wall piercing
solid cairn
It’s still a good weapon but I’m looking for something new
hearty pilot
ik you said you hate the bow but hera is very fun i am not biased
bursting with full cast power shot dash strike is nice
solid cairn
Not a big fan of cast builds
hearty pilot
i mean you don't even have to focus with casts with hera tbh
it just makes it easier to do so i think
hearty pilot
oh yeah. i wanted to ask, what's even the setback for using arthur other than it being slower?
solid cairn
It’s slower
hearty pilot
like guan yu eats at your health... but does arthur just make the strikes slow
huh
that seems very strong
hearty pilot
especially with the aura :shakingeyes:
solid cairn
Like the final attack in the combo takes like 3 seconds
But it does 200 base damage I think
hearty pilot
oh jeez
solid cairn
Have you seen the weapon
hearty pilot
i only unlocked it for the sake of unlocking it but i havent touched stygius like at all
solid cairn
I recommend
gentle palm
Arthur is absolutely fantastic with the Hermes attack buff but gosh is it slow while you're waiting for that one
hearty pilot
not a huge fan of the sword as a whole
uneven quest
ok so I just lost for the second time in a row from shield enemies with super speed
with the excalibur I can't get behind them and attack fast enough
it feels impossible
both times a had broken 33 heat runs where I was breezing through with all my death defiances and then I instantly lose
solid cairn
I have never done benefits package
Can’t you allocate your heat into something else?
uneven quest
yes but it but I shouldn't die exclusively from this one thing but breeze through everything else
to me it means there's an issue
solid cairn
Put in feedback
uneven quest
will do
ashen grail
I just realized guan yu is useless when you have the no healing modifier on
solid cairn
@ashen grail quite the contrary, actually. Guan yu ignores it and doesn’t need other sources of healing so it’s pretty much a free 4 heat
uneven quest
same with the hammer boon for the sword which works amazingly for excalibur runs 
solid cairn
Are you really using cursed slash on Excalibur
uneven quest
yeah. When you're fighting crowds of enemies you can basically just stand in your aura and attack and be virtually invincible
it does make bosses tougher tho
solid cairn
Doesn’t that heal like nothing on a slow weapon like that
robust garden
uneven quest
nah cause the attacks are so huge you can hit several enemies with each attack @solid cairn
ashen grail
Cinder it depends on your max hp pool, damage reduction, and relative attack speed too
With thick skin you are healing 3 health per hit out if the gate
solid cairn
Why only with thick skin
uneven quest
yeah the only good runs I've had with excalibur are with cursed slash
and I play exclusively at really high heat
solid cairn
Ohhh
ashen grail
Dog collar makes it 4
solid cairn
Well now I know what to go for
ashen grail
Oh right it cuts your health by 60% gmm
ashen grail
Still, throw on frost strike and as much hp and dr as you can get and you’ll have tons of hp
solid cairn
How good is excal compared to other weapons
uneven quest
yeah I've been going for Athena, Aphrodite and demeter boons with it
ashen grail
Excal good
solid cairn
Like is it viable for 32 heat
ashen grail
Yes
uneven quest
I've been having really good 33 heat runs, I just instantly lose to shield enemies with super speed lol
gentle palm
https://prnt.sc/ri0tdv Am I cyberbullying Than because I feel bad doing this every time
ashen grail
Does than say anything if he gets zero kills?
atomic mist
I don't think he does?
solid cairn
He teleports away and cries when you can’t see him
atomic mist
Unless the "Save some for me next time" is exclusively a 0 kills voice line but who knows
analog lodge
Are you talking about Arthur? Its attack speed is a little low, you keep getting interrupted during attacks as a result.
I wouldn't recommend it at high heat
uneven quest
nah it works I just feel like they shouldn't let shield enemies specifically get super speed. That's the only thing I've had an issue with
sacred idol
@atomic mist That happens when you win in general
atomic mist
I thought so, thanks
rancid shore
you get a chance at one of those win screen titles if you don't let him kill anything iirc
atomic mist
Really? If someone has a screenshot I'd be happy to see it
rancid shore
I think it says ||Robbed Thanatos||
atomic mist
LOL no way
naive tusk
Oh my, it's true. I can't summon Than in this fight (I haven't used him yet)
rancid shore
what fight?
untold blaze
Anyone think it'd be neat if Nyx could pop up in the middle of a run after you give her six nectors? Maybe make it so that way she gives special stealth related boons by converting your darkness. (That way when you get to the point it takes like 10,000 darkness for the next upgrade to something its still useful.)
ashen grail
@analog lodge only if you don’t get any demeter boons and attack speed increases
naive tusk
I summoned Than in the Mega Soul Catcher fight (1st time I summon him in the run). Now I can't summon him anymore in any fight
ashen grail
Even if you don’t dodge cancelling is great on excal
rancid shore
I had the same problem!
rancid shore
Idk what's up with it but it let me summon in some fights but not others (after the first one)
atomic mist
Oh I got that one too. Couldn't summon Bouldy in a God Trial room
naive tusk
I so wanted Than to sock Theseus' mouth when he started summoning Dionysus 😂
Heyo Failer! 
tall dove
Yo
So, quick Q here
What does Poseidon's Aspect of the Sword do if you've got the Stygian Soul talent instead of Infernal Soul?
Your Bloodstones don't drop anymore, so does the special have any cool effect?
Or is it just the cast damage bit that matters
naive tusk
It only makes your cast do more damage since his other effect is rendered semi-useless
naive tusk
If you have Exit Wounds, then you can make it trigger faster as well
But not really noteworthy hehe
naive tusk
I think I got it once but it has been a long time since I last played with Poseidon's Aspect
But the dislodging still works with the Special. Just, the bloodstones won't fall
rancid shore
P sure it counts as dislodged when it times out
naive tusk
Yep, that as well
atomic mist
So it does damage still?
naive tusk
That's why I don't play with Stygian Sould while I have Poseidon's Aspect equipped
It does damage, yes 😄
atomic mist
Ok good
So far I've had 2 awful Hera bow runs because I've forgotten to change out of Stygian Soul...
turbid needle
But Hera is awesome with Stygian Soul and extra Bloodstones.
atomic mist
If you get the extra bloodstones, which I never do for whatever reason
turbid needle
Chaos, Artemis, and Bone Hourglass Prometheus Stones.
atomic mist
Taking all the possible Chaos gates only got me 1 extra and it just wasn't worth it
kind fulcrum
@vague hearth Would you say the chaos gates appearance can be described as... chaotic?
kind fulcrum
Sure, maybe I'll catch a knucklehead
dapper pilot
The joke certainly Styx with you
dapper pilot
there is no escape
Good to see you Charon so much about it tho
Is this a no-pun zone? Awwwww that’s lame
untold blaze
@vague hearth Your name is amazing and I want it to be a reality.
vague hearth
Thank you
kind fulcrum
I can deDusa love of a specific character
vague hearth
Can
Can we get an emote of dusa with a gun please
Oh well
I'll have to make do
kind fulcrum
Damn, that emote combination is petrifying!
waxen furnace
kind fulcrum
One for each eye?
vague hearth
It was always depressing when nothing changed
untold blaze
Okay but I see problem with your emote. Dusa doesn't have hands.
lament coral
I'm confused about the FP change
lament coral
what changed?
vague hearth
Ok so there was a recurring issue
Where you would use fated persuasion and get the exact same three choices
lament coral
oh, I see
vague hearth
Now, at least one choice is guaranteed to change
tidal thorn
Happened to me a lot. Glad to see it changed.
vague hearth
Same
lament coral
I've ran into an "issue" where I would use FP and only 1 option would change
so that doesn't help me
icy sedge
BLOOD AND DARKNESS that tiny vermin boss has a combined health of 8 big vermin
Hes a boss
vague hearth
I wanted to see what hypnos says when you die to one but he was gone when I arrived ;-;
untold blaze
I think that one's just luck, there's a part of me that thinks there should be a boon somewhere in the game that makes it so if you use FA/FP it'll give you upgraded options. For example with boons you get increased rarity, with rooms there's a chance you can upgrade a darkness room for example to a boon room.
icy sedge
We got to fight the true king of the rats
vague hearth
Perhaps instead of giving you more charges, upgrading it in the mirror changes more of the choices
lament coral
upgraded options how?
vague hearth
Higher rarity, perhaps?
lament coral
covered by Yarn
vague hearth
Or a minimum of rare
lament coral
a lot of things cover rarity already
vague hearth
True
lament coral
the only type of rarity alteration that's currently lacking is the one that affects the boons you already have
we only have Eurydice, which is random, and Demeter's Rare Crop, which is also random, for that
untold blaze
So if you look at how fated authority works, when you randomize a room it'll only be from its pool. I was thinking it'd be neat duo boon between the love goddess and someone else to make it so that if you use fated authority it can actually have a chance of providing the next tier of rewards instead of other options. For FP, it would basically give your fated dice the yarn effect when used.
lament coral
What next tier? Boon tier? Those have pre-requisite boons for a reason
so you wouldn't end up with Blinding Flash without a Deflect boon
untold blaze
Boon rarity is what I meant with boon tier. For rooms it was literally saying instead of switching between darkness, gems, etc. Instead you kick the room into boons, hammers, hearts, and poms.
lament coral
but when you use FP you reroll all options
untold blaze
Well you'd have a chance of it.
analog lodge
I use it to force Duo boons
vague hearth
Oh well
analog lodge
Have Poseidon, force Zeus to show up and so on.
Though after 2(or 3) rerolls it starts repeating the same rooms
lament coral
yeah, that's awful
it just repeats the same 2 options
I don't understand why the game is like that
untold blaze
Personally I never use fated authority now that FP is in the game. It's too rare that a room will crop up that I want to use it on. There's a chance that if I want a hammer I've got to risk giving up hearts for gold.
lament coral
I use FA all the time
Poseidon? Ares? No, thank you
Gold? I don't want gold, I want HP
untold blaze
Eh, poseidon's pretty meh but like all of his duo boons are great.
lament coral
and FP is too bloody expensive for what it does
consecutive rerolls cost more
and the 2nd FP level costs 5k
that's crazy
analog lodge
I allways run FA, as the upside to controlling duo boons/boon combos is just too great
I gave Poseidon as an example, you could apply FA to any god you want a boon combo with
untold blaze
To be fair once you get the diamond key upgrade you literally don't need to sink points into it at all to get FP.
analog lodge
That is also true of FA
untold blaze
Yeah but as I've expressed before I rarely want to use FA
lament coral
it absolutely is
you can reroll a room for 1 FA, and then again for 1 FA
you wanna reroll boons twice, that costs 3 FP
you get a god you don't need, too bad
vague hearth
I mainly use FP for chaos
lament coral
all you can do is reroll their boons
untold blaze
I guess it all depends on your play style. In my case I keep FP because if I've run out of death defiances because I was being stupid but have a lot of money? I can get two of them out of one shop.
vague hearth
The frequency that it has screwed me is completely irrelevant
untold blaze
Alternatively there are a couple boons I avoid like the plague, and occationally I've gotten boon options where every single one was replacing a boon I liked.
lament coral
I don't find Chaos too bad these days, especially while running fists
I love that fists have a dash-attack hammer that affects your normal attack
that's so money
vague hearth
I've wanted to have a run where I actually pay attention to ares but Idk which weapons actually work well with it
untold blaze
You know, regarding chaos, I wish his egg worked similar to the other gods where you're guaranteed to get his chamber as the first room on every floor.
analog lodge
@untold blaze Actually I think that explains its use - FP is for CHAOS runs, it not only can be used in shop to force chaos gate, but it re-rolls chaos boons.
Now that I realize you can use it in shop, it has some really odd applications too, such as forcing troves
untold blaze
I don't really care about losing the health, but I'd rather not walk into the boss of a floor being unable to attack.
vague hearth
Oh
How about being unable to attack with hera aspect bow
I realised my mistake very quickly
untold blaze
I mean the bow arguable has the strongest melee attack in the game if you're willing to face hug with the special.
analog lodge
I take Chaos almost EVERY TIME, and I admit it is just as often bad as it is good.
vague hearth
I take chaos whenever I can as well
I've found that taking away one of my abilities tends to help me get used to the other abilities
Or die trying
solid cairn
Chaos is an insta pick on floor one
untold blaze
Oh, yeah sometimes it's great because on some runs I constantly forget about my cast just because my attack is so good.
vague hearth
Unless you go high confidence guan yu
solid cairn
Even if I rely on attack and it takes 3 hp per attack
untold blaze
Nah that sounds like a great challenge.
vague hearth
Yeah
turbid needle
Isn't it percentage of your total HP?
untold blaze
I imagine having 4 life for the first 4 rooms of the game. 😄
vague hearth
High confidence and than keepsake
turbid needle
And therefore vampirism plus a low HP count makes you constantly have high percentage HP?
vague hearth
Yeah but
solid cairn
You have less hp
turbid needle
I haven't tried this, but that's my spitballing based on mechanics.
vague hearth
You can't take a hit at all
untold blaze
Well to be fair I'd argue if that's going to happen you want it to be in the first 4 rooms.
solid cairn
With guan yu, you want to get centaur hearts along the way
vague hearth
Yeah
untold blaze
Because then you didn't exactly spend an hour of your time on a run that ends from 1 mistake.
untold blaze
Oh, yeah that's my favorite combo, the effect is basically, "You can't run, you can't hide."
Combine it with dash triple strike to test how stupid quick you reaction time is not to take a hit.
unkempt pagoda
just did a demeter aspect rush kick run, holy heck
untold blaze
Oh yeah, it's how I beat the game the first time.
vague hearth
I think I beat the game first time with sword double nova crit build
unkempt pagoda
i'm flying across the screen with critical kicks, it's a massacre
untold blaze
I liked to damage race the boss at the time because I really didn't know how to dodge him. So dealing like 2000 damage a second helped.
vague hearth
What's your favourite hammer upgrades for each weapon?
For sword, I actually really like world splitter
unkempt pagoda
hm
vague hearth
For spear, it's probably fast spin
Shield, the double smack
For the bow, I love the twin arrow
Shotgun aspect is beautiful, but with zag aspect, flurry fire
And for fists
That dash attack finisher is insane
untold blaze
Sword: Armor cutter, spear: dash. Shield: dash. Bow: Bounce shot. Fists: dash. Gun: piercing or explosive shots, undecided.
analog lodge
For Fists it is dash upper-for one punch potential
unkempt pagoda
Sword - Super Nova
Bow - Chain Shot
Shield - Charged Shot
Spear - Quick Spin
Fists - Rush Kick
Rail - Cluster Bomb
vague hearth
I don't think I've gotten chain shot before
Charged shot and quick charge turns the shield into a carbine
And I love it
uneven quest
Discord won't let me post pictures for some reason help
just did a 33 heat run with excalibur
can't post screenshot
untold blaze
I like the sword's anti-armor ability because it basically nullifies armored challenges and doesn't require you switch up your play style or use wanky attacks to make full use of.
analog lodge
You need to link it instead aaron, we upload it to our steam then post the link
uneven quest
oh ok
vague hearth
Oooh ok
untold blaze
The bow's anti armor is fine because when mixed with doom you can destroy a whole room. However the bow's special is basically garbage in most other scenarios.
vague hearth
Interesting
I like chiron aspect but I don't wanna spend so much titan blood to make it work
unkempt pagoda
piercing/anti-armor abilities are effective, but boring as all heck
analog lodge
I love bow special, even without Chiron
vague hearth
Bow special with zeus boon
uneven quest
Sorry I've never uploaded pictures on Steam, what do? @analog lodge
vague hearth
👌
untold blaze
I mean the gun's anti armor is fine because it lets you ignore the great shields.
vague hearth
Yeah
untold blaze
That's a massive, MASSIVE perk.
analog lodge
@uneven quest you click view -> screenshots
vague hearth
Ok
turbid needle
Now Hestia with Hazard and Inescapable Blast is amazing.
untold blaze
The one where you get a damage bonus for not obeying basic safety regulations?
vague hearth
The mightiest asterisk in the game
analog lodge
No, you obey the safety regulations, you walk out of the attack before it falls
ashen grail
Did they fix aphro cast with hera bow?
errant narwhal
still loving this weapon
untold blaze
(Also why isn't there a hammer upgrade that turns your bombs into grenades that take longer to explode, but deal more damage and hit a wider area?)
vague hearth
not with eris aspect you don't
uneven quest
@analog lodge whenever I do that it just says steam is making it easier to share screenshots lmao
apparently not
errant narwhal
also that hazard special for the rail is SO fun, i dont play much rail at all so i tried it for the first time a couple of days ago. i love it so much. i would play rail exclusively like that lol
vague hearth
I'm planning on maxing the eris aspect, getting shotgun and hazard bomb
analog lodge
@uneven quest In screenshots click "show" then select hades
vague hearth
And effectively playing doom
unkempt pagoda
i had a poseidon hazard run once
if i ever was caught in the blast, i'd bounce around the room like a ragdoll lmao
errant narwhal
LOL
analog lodge
@uneven quest then upload it to steam and click show online, then you will have the link
untold blaze
Shot gun's another good one for that weapon, though I wish each bullet counted as its own attack. I realize how op that'd be but-
analog lodge
(at the top of the steam page)
untold blaze
Imagine it 2 shots and you get frost-splosion.
uneven quest
@analog lodge oh it's probably not working cause I captured a picture of it instead of just screenshotting it. Why must discord make things so difficult
just wanna post a stinkin picture
vague hearth
You would effectively carry them to the wall at mach 2
analog lodge
Then you need to upload it to Imgur
uneven quest
ok
analog lodge
F12 is the steam screenshot button
vague hearth
And follow them the whole way there
It was the dumbest run I've ever done and I was devastated that the shotgun blast knocks back so little now
Sure, that's because otherwise it'd be almost useless, but
untold blaze
I just realized something, they totally could have done more with the gun. The woman who was obsessed with fire was the one who owned the bloody thing. Why doesn't it have a flame thrower form?
analog lodge
(Maybe that is the 4th form?)
vague hearth
Unlikely
But you never know
I'm
Immensely curious about the rail's future aspect
untold blaze
Could be based on a world war 1 gun if they were to do that. (Where flame throwers were first used to such horrifying and game changing degrees.)
gloomy vine
Aspect of Eastwood - are ya feeling lucky?
analog lodge
Honestly, there is no telling what they will do for the Shield, bow and rail 4th aspects
vague hearth
#GiveZagreusAGlock2020
untold blaze
Bow could easily be native american.
vague hearth
I was thinking that persian hero
gloomy vine
Boudica for the bow in all seriousness
vague hearth
Boudica?
uneven quest
@analog lodge ok so I just screenshotted the security log screen and have it on steam. What do i do with it now, uplaod it? thanks for the help btw lol
vague hearth
Rail fourth aspect is just the super shotgun
untold blaze
What if it was the artemis aspect? I mean ||she asks you if she can try it when you get out.||
unkempt pagoda
i hope sgg does some lesser-known mythologies for the rest of the aspects, as long as they put the time and respect into researching them
untold blaze
All of the 4th aspects are FUTURE wielders after all.
foggy solstice
Did the ability to switch your audio device output get removed in Nighty Night? i no longer see it and i can't find it mentioned in the patch notes
uneven quest
oh wow I never thought about how there is no artemis aspect
turbid needle
Oh.
errant narwhal
iirc artemis dislikes the gun somewhat?
analog lodge
@uneven quest Upload it, then click "view in steam" to be able to see the page, the URL at the top tells is what you need to give
untold blaze
Oh no i was talking about the bow
analog lodge
Robin hood?
gloomy vine
If they were willing to depart from classical mythology the shield could be captain America 😆
untold blaze
Chat moving fast, it's fine.
untold blaze
Actually now that I think about it, I'd really enjoy the artemis bow, because it'd be a good hint that Zag doesn't just get alienated by her the second he's out of the underworld.
vague hearth
To be fair
turbid needle
or she hunts him down and takes it from him
unkempt pagoda
artemis mentions she doesn't like the rail because its loud
uneven quest
there we go
vague hearth
The most likely reason there isn't an artemis aspect is because she still has her bow
It's just simply not coronacht
naive tusk
I was just talking with a friend about how Coronacht’s 4th aspect would be Apollo’s hehe
uneven quest
got that 33 heat excalibur run proof
vague hearth
Nicely done dude
uneven quest
looks like crap tho lol
vague hearth
Proof that looks like crap is still proof
gloomy vine
Could the rail aspect be something as modern as a world war 2 hero?
untold blaze
@turbid needle Okay I mean, it could go either way and I'd be perfectly okay with them making a joke about how even she isn't sure which it would be.
analog lodge
You might want to adjust your steam screenshot settings, I do not know how to do that though
untold blaze
World war 1 is more famous for terrifying, death hungry weapons. Gasing people, flame throwers, the first real uses of the machine gun.
vague hearth
It think it'd probably be closer to heavier, carbine type firearms
analog lodge
It could be a blunderbus or a flintlock rifle
untold blaze
There are a lot of fun options here to say the rail plays a significant role in the war to end all wars.
vague hearth
Seeing as the two current future aspects are noticeably heavier with their attacks and are therefore more commital to offset their strong upsides
It makes sense for it to be a musket or some other kind of unwieldy firearm with a solid payoff
Hell, maybe even a cannon
untold blaze
I could imagine the rail completely changing so your main click spreads a gas that deals damage over time, and your special releases a flame the makes it explode.
That would be a good departure from how it normally plays.
vague hearth
It's hard to think of something that would be able to do a mortar and regular fire
unkempt pagoda
is there a wwii hero with a signature gun sgg can use
vague hearth
So
analog lodge
It is strange, Arthur is rather weak but slow, while guan yu is concidered OP but slow
vague hearth
If they go with something original for that, I wouldn't be surprised
lime estuary
The issue with Arthur is that it’s not only slow, but forces you to get close
untold blaze
Trick with Arthur is hold click on the 3rd attack.
vague hearth
I like arthur's one
analog lodge
But lets not make assumptions about what they will end up doing
uneven quest
going to test something will delete if doesn't work https://i.imgur.com/gHaLtd8.png
untold blaze
It charges up to 300 damage base.
vague hearth
Also you can dash with each of the swings
uneven quest
got it @analog lodge
vague hearth
So that the chargeup isn't as risky
Pair it up with the slow aura which mostly keeps them in place and it's surprisingly solid
lime estuary
Each attack still leaves you with massive recovery frames, though
vague hearth
True, but it's not unmanageable
untold blaze
Yeah that's why it's the dark souls of hades.
analog lodge
As much as dashing is possible with arthur, it is one dash you are not using for defence.
And you are quite slow, leaving you open.
vague hearth
That's true as well
vague hearth
Not to mention the hard to hit dash attack
analog lodge
Also the dash attack doesn't count as first hit of combo
lime estuary
The more I play Arthur, the more it just feels out-of-place compared to the game’s pacing
It’s all about high mobility
vague hearth
True
lime estuary
And this weapon runs counter to that
Without offering enough of a payoff to justify it
That’s just my feelings rn
vague hearth
That's honestly pretty valid
uneven quest
it's very tanky yeah, it's the best imo with the hammer boon that recovers health
untold blaze
You're also a spear player.
lime estuary
Not really tbh
uneven quest
I honestly think the weapon is really strong
lime estuary
I have the name cause it’s what I used to beat my first 32-heat run, and that was pre-nerf
vague hearth
I like the arthur aspect, probably more than the other sword aspects
But
I don't usually enjoy sword runs is why
lime estuary
I’ll admit my perspective is biased because I play with full 40% Forced overtime as default
analog lodge
Concidering that rail gets 150 per shot for its reload in rather short time and is safer than sword, the 300 damage isn't really enough
lime estuary
At that level, the Arthur aspect falls off fast
vague hearth
That will 100% make arthur a rough time
lime estuary
Which is a real shame
uneven quest
yeah you can't win with overtime with the arthur sword. has to be a slow tank build
untold blaze
I definitely think every weapon has their own feel and strengths. Personally I like the sword the most out of any weapon, it feels like it has the most room the pop off with boons, without needing specific ones to make it work.
uneven quest
had to double up on benefits to get to 33 heat
gloomy vine
Forced overtime still feels broken to me. The animations I mean. It just frustrates me.
vague hearth
I get what you mean
lime estuary
Totally
lime estuary
The whole animations things really needs a fix
vague hearth
I just prefer the fists or rail
lime estuary
It’s the fact that the wind-up animations to the attacks are also sped-up
vague hearth
Or the bow/spear for more distant fighting
lime estuary
Making some of them ridiculously hard to avoid
untold blaze
Rail I hate because the primary attack doesn't do flinching damage. You need to achieve so much damage with the rail's basic attack to make it worth it, and it's special is so easy to dodge.
lime estuary
It should be changed so that it only affects enemy movement and the attacks themselves
mighty ermine
forced overtime with the speed benefits package on wavemakers: nearly hitscan waves
vague hearth
I love the rail
gloomy vine
Hestia OP
ripe parrot
Haha the only thing I hate on Force Overtimed are the Spreaders
uneven quest
the rail is real reliant on hammer boons which I'm not a big fan of
vague hearth
Zagreus max level
lime estuary
The “speedy” benefit should not appear at all on FO imo
analog lodge
Arthur also doesn't have any special hammer upgrades to make up for the fact that most of the attack hammers are not there and the one that is is the sword beam, which only does 25 per hit even on Arthur
untold blaze
I've always thought the sword beam should do like 10 but get all the benefits of your attack.
vague hearth
Spicy old time
untold blaze
Maybe 15.
uneven quest
that plus doom would be nuts @untold blaze
vague hearth
The dps actually gets insane with that build
untold blaze
Yeah that build with the sword you mix the beam with holding down attack for 25 damage, now you're hitting for around 150 damage a second, half of which can get attack modifiers.
And no range issues.
vague hearth
I wanna get flurry blade and piercing beam at some point
And just create the stygian laser pointer
untold blaze
But yeah I think piercing beam should bet the benefits of your attack boon, even if it has to take a slight nerf to damage to make up for it.
vague hearth
That's fair tbh
I'd happily take boon effects over a bit more damage
Because that can be made up for
untold blaze
Arguably though flurry blade, piercing beam, support fire, and zues attack would be amazing.
analog lodge
I can confirm, flurry+pierce beam is very fun
untold blaze
Not because of damage. No your damage would suck compared to other builds.
BUT ALL OF THE BULLETS.
You're firing bullets on enemies next to you, behind you, and ahead of you all at the same without giving yourself carpule tunnel.
Wait, why doesn't Artemis and the love goddess have a duo boon that buffs support fire? Come on, cupid's arrows!
uneven quest
yo guys what weapon/aspect should I try for a 34 heat run?
doesn't have to be good
just don't know what to use
lime estuary
I‘d recommend Guan Yu, since it makes the health reduction one free heat
It’s what I used for my 32
uneven quest
hmm, I already got a high heat run with that
I want to try something not used much
maybe I'll try the hades spear
thin mist
are there prerequisites to having Demeter appear? i've played a few runs (only won once before the Long Winter update) and i've never seen her. do i have to beat the final boss to "unlock" her?
mortal aurora
i think you just have to make it to the last room
thin mist
that would be really great because i did just that. hopefully sometime in the next couple of runs i'll see her 🤞
the wiki has no information about making her appear
rigid apex
sorry i'm sure you get this question all the time -- i just finished unlocking all the talent rows with keys. I've got like 8k total darkness. What should i invest darkness in starting with the super expensive ones?
e.g. not sure if i should be pumping up rare percentages or legendary/duo
untold blaze
pump those up last.
Everything else has a bigger effect on your gamplay.
However they don't have 'zero' effect.
rigid apex
right now i have everything maxed but the last two rows and i'm sitting on 2k to spend
but i have the option to flip the 3rd to last row to upgrade legendary/duo instead of rare
i didn't know priority of those vs. each other, and vs fated authority and room buff/epic drop rate
untold blaze
Pumping up rare and epic boon percentage chances does have a noticable effect on how often you get them. Legendary/duo can wait because you'd only turn that on if you were going for specific builds that require them. However the other version of epic boons that increases how often you get boons/hammers/poms is great.
unkempt pagoda
one thing i like to think about with those two specific rows of talents
untold blaze
Fated authority, literally get it last.
unkempt pagoda
Rare + More Gold Laurels would be a good set of talents if your builds tend to have more boons
Legendaries/Duos + Epic would be a good set of talents if your builds tend to have less boons
untold blaze
If you get the 3 diamond key upgrade all you need to do is have it unlocked to use it.
Both forms.
unkempt pagoda
i.e. do your builds tend to center around a few boons or do you like to grab as many as you can
rigid apex
oh, that is really nice
my builds tend to be random and by the seat of my pants 🙂
i'm at about 30 runs now
vague hearth
Killed tisiphone in four shots thanks to hera bow and heroic dionysus cast
Feels good
untold blaze
You definitely want to use rare + more boons.
rigid apex
okay, i'll go for those two first tehn
also - if i want to farm darkness
i assume i'm better off still skipping darkness rooms since they give so little compared to troves and bosses
better to be stronger and clear faster / more reliably than pick up 12 darkness at a time?
untold blaze
Beating the game with a weapon you've already beaten it with will typically yield much more darkness, yes.
You get over 500 each run you you beat between all of the bosses.
You also get to practice different builds for when you start trying to work up to beating the game on 50 heat.
analog lodge
On this episode of "I'm a Zag, get me out of here!" things get a little Chaotic
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025858984
slow bane
When does fishing show up in the house contractor.
Because they say you gotta buy it off him. Am I supposed to actually win the game first?
gloomy bone
I can't remember... does Kiss of Styx GIVE you a defiance when you already have three? Seems odd to have it in the shop if it's useless
mighty ermine
it's to refill DDs that have been used
you have a soft limit of three, with extras putting it over to four or five with the chaos legendary or skelly tooth
kiss of styx can't put you over the soft limit
gloomy bone
Ahhh okay. Thanks, it's been a while since I've had the option to buy it at full so I couldn't remember. Still waiting on that Chaos Legendary too, but I never pass up Chaos so I should get it eventually
mighty ermine
yeah, chaos legendary is pretty rare, and you have to already have at least one chaos boon as a prerequisite. but you'll eventually get it if you keep taking chaos
dense star
Rerolls might help find it
mighty ermine
true; fated persuasion is less bad now because it guarantees at least one new boon
analog lodge
I kinda wish kiss of styx didn't show up if you have full death defiance.
Also you can force chaos legend via Fated Persuasion + Forced chaos gate at shop well
Causes 3 or more chaos per run
(Coincidently, this is the new darkness farming strat)
dense star
On the Kiss of Styx note, it would be really nice if Athena's Death Defiance perks didn't show up unless you had spent slots. Though that might be salt speaking on my part.
I just want that Athena legendary 
slate dove
I just had it appear like twice in a row in the same run
analog lodge
or it added a DD instead
slate dove
I also wanted the legendary
mighty ermine
i feel the same way... always annoys me seeing her defiance boons when i absolutely don't want them
dense star
I'm inpressed you cam find and take brilliant riposte with consistency
slate dove
I also got exclusive access in or just before Styx. So...
I really wanted Dionysus legendary as well
dense star
On that note, how is brilliant riposte (the bonus deflected attacks damage perk)?
slate dove
I had high tolerance and Zeus boons, I could've gone for scintillating feast too
But game said no
analog lodge
Though when you do the maths, Last stand is effectively an extra death defiance, with 10% to 20% extra healing per death, it can reach 60% extra healing. A DD is 50%.
It just doesn't look like a DD at first glance
dense star
Guess you'd need to do some maths on when it's effectively +1 DD in terms of increased health gain, mostly v. Hades
naive tusk
Hi Tail ❤️
mighty ermine
though DDs have the perk of being able to eat a ton of potential extra damage if the killing blow is huge, and not have it impact your health after the DD is used
hey peach
analog lodge
Last stand is 1.2DD when you have 3DDs, 2.2DDs when you have 2DDs, 1.8DDs when you have 1DD and 1.4DDs when you have 0
(effectively)
If you get chaos DD, then it becomes 1.6DDs at 4 and 2.6DDs at 3
in short, it is only bad if you are running stubborn defiance
dense star
That does sound pretty ok as a heal/defensive passive
Though on that note, it might be ok for stubborn defiance since it would increase the hp gain, right?
analog lodge
Fair point, intentionally dying with stubborn defiance is a strat in and of itself
With styx item it gets you to 60% heals on death for stubborn, which is better than Dio regen
dense star
Does Stubbon Defiance heal scale with Nourished Soul?
naive tusk
That's something to test! 
analog lodge
I don't know, someone needs to test it
naive tusk
I offer myself once I'm done with my agenda 😄
mighty ermine
last stand is still a disappointment if there isn't much threat of using up DDs anyways and you're looking for something build enhancing from athena, then last stand takes up a boon slot anyway. definitely not a bad boon, but often unnecessary unless you anticipate a struggle
naive tusk
Heeey, Athena's DD shield icon is cute anyways
turbid needle
Last Stand can be very clutch on 15+ Heat.
naive tusk
If Patty decides to troll you and not show up and you have consumed DDs, ye
mighty ermine
i've never personally needed it on higher heat but i can see situations where people would grab it, for sure
dense star
At least for me, I tend to disregard it unless I want a Kiss of Styx, i.e. I want the Death Defiance. Though maybe I should give it more respect
analog lodge
@mighty ermine your comment of "it isn't good unless you have trouble" only matters to people who can casually handle massive heat values(AKA speedrunners).
mighty ermine
and it is at least more useful overall than the revenge deflection unless you're specifically gunning for a revenge build
you don't have to be a speedrunner to handle high heat, though. deadline isn't a required pact option
dense star
Revenge deflection can be decent if you're not using Spearpoint in styx
analog lodge
Someone who can handle high heat can also speedrun to some degree, I named speedrunners because they represent the high end of skill level.
mighty ermine
i understand, yeah. i guess i'm just speaking from my own perspective
dense star
But most of the revenge stuff seems pretty bad to me tbh
mighty ermine
i just personally don't take it too often unless there aren't any other useful choices
analog lodge
300-500 damage automatically is quite a bit
I have not tried it myself, but I imagine revenge builds with high enough defence could beat hades by standing still.
hushed ledge
I feel like that would need absurd amounts of defense
mighty ermine
it's not often that i'll really anticipate taking that much damage at higher heat anyway due to hard labor and heightened security hades pots, etc. my priority is boosting my offense to such a degree that whatever is threatening me goes down faster, and thus i have less time to make mistakes that would warrant DDs and such
but with high max health, i think it could be fun on a tanky gung-ho build
with say, excalibur
dapper pilot
I like Aphrodite’s one at least cause it means if there’s something that multi-hits me it doesn’t smack as hard the second time
mighty ermine
aphrodite revenge seems especially nice on hell mode with the added condition of not getting a brief shield after taking a large hit
kind cloud
@dense star I absolutely agree about athena's boon choices. Too frequently, i get both of her death defiance options when i have all 3 intact. I'll add that to the feedback channel.
mighty ermine
then again, aphrodite's damage scaling is so good and her curse so safe that a lot of hell mode builds will run with weak on attack or special anyway
mighty ermine
definitely, and the fact that her and artemis get one of the most potent offensive duos in the game (heart rend) while they're both phenomenal damage-wise, phew
dense star
Heart Rend, and depending on the weapon, Dio/Aphro duo's also strong too
analog lodge
A full on revenge build has the added benefit of Athena revenge, which is a defence bonus in itself
dense star
Her passive modifiers to weak (Empty Inside and the increased damage penalty one) are also nice
mighty ermine
i find dio's damage a bit underwhelming in a lot of situations unless a lot of poms are invested, but the dio/aphro duo definitely alleviates the damage cap issue yeah
analog lodge
Dio needs Aphro duo or his legend for his poison to truly shine - though it has some really nice Pom scaleing.
mighty ermine
exactly, poms are super reliable/consistent for him at least
analog lodge
He can reach around 100 per second with just a few poms