aphrodite
#h1-builds-and-combat
hearty pilot
livid dew
Interesting. I already did a king Arthur aphrodire run unfortunately. I was trying to make that number real big lol
hearty pilot
are you referring to the attack as in the action or just the highest number possible
if so i think its a crit with aphrodite maxed call but also malphon could stack numbers just because of the fast punching
sullen valley
g
guys ihoewhaouhfoueh-
I
I just killed Alecto and she only attacked a total of 5 times
I'm pretty sure Tisiphone supported her once
I am going to have a heart attack
I am going to go mad I just got 2 of the same Chaos Boon and Curse, "Chamber Previews are hidden for 5 chambers, after, your Special does +54% damage"
winter kelp
sullen valley
Hm?
sullen valley
Oh lol
Eh, I just treat it as "Every chamber you enter will only have one exit choice available"
cold grove
Can i ask which fist aspect is the best?
sullen valley
Besides, not being able to see 10 chambers is worth having your Homing Artemis Crit Special boosted up to double damage
Also that's debatable and depends on your own play style
Hm...I heard this before. If you want, you can experiment with different aspects. Blow your Titan Blood onto one aspect/weapon, try it out on skelly, and if you want to try a new aspect, don't like that aspect, or want to redistribute your Titan Blood, exit the game, reload your save file, and you should have your Titan Blood back.
Don't quote me on that, you could probably ask someone else on advice for save-scumming. But overall, imo there isn't really a single "best" aspect. Just one or several you mesh well with. Besides, they can be boosted with Daedalus and Boons accordingly.
cold grove
I was just wondering if theres one thats better dps wise such as eris(i think) gun
turbid needle
@turbid needle remembered that you said the ability to perform dash-strikes followed immediately by dash-uppers had been patched out. well, it most certainly hasn't been. can still do it easily
@mighty ermine I'd like to see footage of that because I can't recreate it in my game.
mighty ermine
@turbid needle sure thing, recorded it earlier. gimme a bit
cold grove
is the demeter aspect strong on fists?
talos feels more fun but not sure how practical it would be
turbid needle
Demeter is possibly Malphon's best Aspect.
sullen valley
Talos is actually pretty nice to have as a weak range/counter ranged attack
cold grove
So its better than the talos %dmg increase
sullen valley
I think so, yeah
Then again, there's also the consideration of how much damage you can pull off, since it also gives you a damage boost
cold grove
i guess that would vary run to run
sullen valley
When you magnetize something, that enemy is weaker to cast and attack damage. 10% or higher depending on your upgrades
mighty ermine
@turbid needle https://streamable.com/u13bd here ya go. explosive upper upgrade present just to make it more obvious that it is indeed a dash-upper that is registering after a dash-strike
turbid needle
I found it myself, thanks.
mighty ermine
you just said it wasn't working for you in game, though
you were the one who asked me to provide footage my dude
turbid needle
And I found it in-game, thanks.
earnest ravine
This is going to sound weird, but have the Snakestone lasers felt off to anyone since the update? They seemed to be going at the exact same speed on 0% overtime and 40%, and were tracking almost instantly.
At first I thought it was just m not bring used to Overtime after taking a break but then I did a low heat run with fists and found the timings practically identical, and I wanna make sure I'm not imagining it before I try and report it.
And it was really noticeable when the Giant Snakestone's lasers felt normal speed by comparison.
cold grove
So why would i take demeter over talos?
i find myself using special more so grabbing more enemies into it feels like it could be better
sullen valley
I reeeeally don't feel comfortable with the fact that Theseus's spin slash can hit you twice in one swing.
turbid needle
Demeter also makes Explosive-Upper hit five times.
sullen valley
And that's because I was stood still with Coronacht.
cold grove
Ah so it has better synergies
turbid needle
Talos is awesome with Blade Rifts, though, if you're having trouble making Ares work on your way to Hunting Blades that's an option.
hearty pilot
so what scales when upgrading demeter? the number of punches required or the additional specials?
winged gale
@earnest ravine I've felt similarly
mighty ermine
additional hits on special
hearty pilot
ah
earnest ravine
Okay, thank you! I'll get a run to Styx and F10 it then because, yikes
round bone
I did my first successful 32 heat run
winged gale
congrats!
kind cloud
lol, You get a 32 heat run clear! You get a 32 heat run clear! You get a 32 heat run clear! EVERYBODY gets a 32 heat run clear! - Oprahmatic
/Get as many of them as you can before SgG makes changes in a new patch.
//Before you know it, 42 heat might be the new 32 heat.
round bone
ok bud
turbid needle
Well done.
earnest ravine
Nice work!
kind cloud
I get the sense my joke didn't hit.
/shrug
I wasn't making light of your achievement. But these things happen. Levels of difficulties are in flux after new updates/patches. For instance, the pact of punishment used to go up to like 150 heat iirc.
turbid needle
The Pact counted differently, 8 Heat is roughly worth 25 in the old system.
kind cloud
Yeah. I'm just saying things change.
atomic mist
32 heat is no joke... I'm at the point where I often reach Styx but then either die in one of the tunnels or throw the run at the last boss 
kind cloud
It's not. I still can't clear 24 heat on bow and arrow. But I'm trying my best with the new ruthless reflex/dash mirror option.
lime relic
Imagine old demeter landing haymakers and devastating uppercuts
turbid needle
I might try for Nemesis eventually.
I just keep seeing the Bride wearing like, Final Fantasy gauntlet weapons.
lime relic
Ahaha
turbid needle
That was Demeter during the Titanomachy. Everyone else was in their toga or robe or cloak, Demeter's in the modern jumpsuit.
inner heath
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's impossible to spawn more than one fishing spot in Styx, right? Because I only got one even with Poseidon's Legendary and doing all the rooms
mighty ermine
i find high heat now to be harder than high heat back when 120 was for the final statue rather than 32. of course, a whole area was added since i've completed a 153 heat run which was about as high as i could muster, so it was one less boss, and FB is no pushover with lots of pact
hearty pilot
demeter with malphon and hestia with exagryph is a great mental image
turbid needle
I just beat 10 Heat, Hard Labor and Extreme Measure.
inner heath
But then I did Merciful End and it was gg ez
I used the Zagreus aspect too. Demeter's Aspect is fun, but when you realize you can get higher DPS just by spamming your special, it makes it meh. Talos is also cool, but there's problems with the special damage proc because the pull doesn't count as special so it got kinda annoying to use/buff effectively. I took the straight AS/Dodge and it worked best for me
kind cloud
what is FO?
atomic mist
Forced Overtime
inner heath
Forced Overtime. All enemies move and attack 40% faster
mighty ermine
i was going steadily with bounties for all weapons rotating, until guan yu came out and i went straight up to 20 because guan yu is so fun
kind cloud
oh, thanks.
mighty ermine
now the others have a bit of catching up to do
kind cloud
malphon still works great in FO because it allows you to stun lock an enemy
turbid needle
Yeah, I feel like Special spam is the way to go, but wouldn't that still make Talos for the pull or Demeter for the boss burst better?
inner heath
Yeah, I cleared 1-16 heats on each weapon, now I'm darkness/gemstone/quest/codex farming on low heat
kind cloud
if you can make the switch from one flurry to the next with a superquick click, you're good.
inner heath
Problem with Demeter Boss Burst is that you can do 5 specials quicker than you can do 12 hits + 1 special
So...just do the specials
In which case, why use demeter?
turbid needle
So then Talos.
inner heath
Talos can work, yeah
But the pull part made some complications for me trying to figure out a build
wild fiber
how do you guys feel about the fists?
inner heath
The pull is nice, but once again, if you're special spamming, then why bother with Talos? It only adds +40% cast and attack damage, not special damage
in which case, why use Talos?
wild fiber
still haven't gotten the chance to play the new update
turbid needle
Because it can grab enemies at range.
lime relic
because it's fun as hell
kind cloud
i think the fists are strong but i'm still riding and dying with chaos shield on 30+ heat runs.
atomic mist
I like pulling enemies into traps. And pulling those witches and floating crystals away from lava pools
inner heath
Which is fine, if that's what you're looking for
But I'd rather take the attack speed and dodge chance than a ranged pull
lime relic
you grab the enemy then you yeet them even if the thing didn't do any damage I'd probably pick it
wild fiber
what about Excalibur?
inner heath
especially if I'm running something like Merciful End
wild fiber
might be the most unique weapon we've got
lime relic
Excalibur is the Dark Souls of Hades
mighty ermine
yeah, shield's definitely safe for 30+, where safety is extremely welcome
wild fiber
lmao
kind cloud
opinion seems mixed on excalibur
i happen to love it.
the slowness of the strikes doesn't bother me
but i happen to like the distance it gives me
inner heath
I love it, but I haven't tried it at a medium/high heat yet. I've only done it in <10 heat runs
atomic mist
I personally like it the most out of all the sword aspects, but then again, I don't like the sword very much at all lol
kind cloud
power surge is worth it imo
lime relic
I also love the slow heavy strikes
kind cloud
@atomic mist the sword was bordering on goat when we had instantaneous hits, got nerfed, dammit
atomic mist
I wasn't here pre-Steam release, so I have no idea what it was like
kind cloud
oh, if you watch the NoClip documentaries on hades, you see a clip of what the sword used to be especially with athena deflect on special, you could cheese through the game, it was awesome
wild fiber
Same the Long Winter was the first update I was a part of
It came out like a week after I got the game
atomic mist
I've watched them all but I don't remember that. Guess I must have forgotten
inner heath
Anyway, question for y'all
Did we figure out the pre-requisite for Poseidon's Fishing Legendary? And I got it going into Styx, but I still wasn't able to spawn a second fishing spot. Am I correct in assuming it's because that area is hard-locked at one?
kind cloud
here, I'll try to find it for you @atomic mist.
hearty pilot
yeah pretty sure
kind cloud
it was really quick. I shared it here once before
hearty pilot
wait is doing 5 malphon specials really faster than triggering demeter?
atomic mist
So doing the 4-hit attack combo 3 times for the charge and then special vs 5 consecutive specials? That's an interesting question
waxen furnace
not sure I saw this in patch notes, but while sisyphus companion seems to be nerfed, its gold drop does benefit from gold%+ buffs now
hearty pilot
huh
interesting
back to malphon ig
im torn between investing titan blood in demeter or zag
turbid needle
Zag Aspect has the benefit of being very cheap.
hearty pilot
true
atomic mist
I did some quick testing and 5 specials seems to be like half a second (on average) faster than 12 attacks + demeter special
solid cairn
Demeter does the specials all at once though
hearty pilot
really. idk why but that doesn't sound right with how slow the special feels idk why my mind thinks that
turbid needle
5 standing specials would do more damage anyway, since they hit twice so you get 10 hits total.
atomic mist
Yeah I was about to add that the Demeter special does more damage overall
turbid needle
Really?
earnest ravine
And on multiple targets the 15 hits happen more rapidly, but that's less of a concern on bosses.
hearty pilot
standing specials dont deal equal damage i think?
waxen furnace
depends on what boons you have, really. even if you can fit 5 specials in the time it takes you to attack 12 times + special, having a decent attack boon as well means dem can easily outstrip just hitting special 5 times, I would think
inner heath
@atomic mist thanks for doing the testing. Yeah, I think they should really changed it to <=10 hits for that weapon. 😕
waxen furnace
even if something like dio attack + aphro special
pale bough
Isn't a normal combo only 5 hits anyway? Doesn't make sense to me that it requires 12 to proc the special
solid cairn
Zagreus gives dodge as well
But it doesn’t have any utility so it may be even worse than talos
earnest ravine
The attack speed is pretty nice, honestly.
hearty pilot
yeah im not sure theres really any clear winner among the malphon aspects
waxen furnace
which is great!
solid cairn
they all suck
waxen furnace
talos is the clear winner for me as I find it fun
mighty ermine
their damage seems fine to me
atomic mist
Yeah normal combo is 5 hits, I thought it was 4, seems like I can't count lol
mighty ermine
my very first fists run was one of my fastest overall
waxen furnace
10 runs, no excal yet 😦
hearty pilot
i mean they could always buff it yeah
waxen furnace
gotten through a lot of Nyx dialogue though. hopefully soon
solid cairn
Trying to find a weapon I like apart from guan yu lol
hearty pilot
hera > all other weapons/aspects
solid cairn
I hate the bow
hearty pilot
then perish
mighty ermine
guan yu does still slap
atomic mist
I really dislike GY still lmao
hearty pilot
oof
mighty ermine
i mainly dash-strike and special weave with guan yu
solid cairn
Yeah I’m getting some guan yu burnout
atomic mist
I had a Hera bow run with Stygian Soul active and it was bad times
solid cairn
Lol
mighty ermine
i know many who focus solely on quick spin and all, but i dunno
hearty pilot
the spear aspects are so bizarre
turbid needle
You should get that with a couple extra Bloodstones, @atomic mist
Look for Chaos and Artemis.
atomic mist
Yeah I know but it's not reliable
hearty pilot
yeah heras prolly best with abyssal soul
atomic mist
I've learned to not try to go for a specific build from the get-go because it most often just ends in misery
hearty pilot
getting that rapid fire burst with ranged cast is nice
hearty pilot
oh is it infernal
hearty pilot
ah yes abyssal is blood
_>
doesn't help that both of those are also languages in d&d
solid cairn
I should give fists some more time
atomic mist
Oh btw, is the Hermes dash boon less likely to show up now? I used to be able to get it on most of my runs but now I see it so rarely
I thought it was removed initially, didn't see it for like 5 runs
mighty ermine
huh, i've been seeing it plenty, myself
atomic mist
Really? Must be my bad luck again...
solid cairn
Does dodge chance have a cap
solid cairn
Yeah I figured
scarlet kindle
multiple sources of dodge chance stack multiplicatively iirc
so it can't possibly go up to 100%
scarlet kindle
attack boons that trigger on hit, rather than +% damage booms
like zeus or dionysus
wild fiber
hmm interesting
yeah I was thinking zeus maybe
get a lil bit of that Poseidon on special
mighty ermine
i'd say the +% damage ones are still worthwhile regardless. fists base damage is higher than you'd think for a rapid hitter
wild fiber
lil bit of duo boon maybe 😳
mighty ermine
but zeus does slap
turbid needle
Concentrated Knuckle, Long Knuckle, Deadly Strike.
scarlet kindle
yeah %damage isn't bad but poison zeus and demeter with the chill burst scale so much better with high attack speed
wild fiber
I was thinking about demeter on the attack actually
also any aspect worth going into first?
turbid needle
I got that Arctic Blast combo once, I need to try it again.
wild fiber
I'm still pretty early game, I think I'm on like 3ish heat for each weapon
scarlet kindle
demeter and zag aspects are the best
strange bay
imo, concentrated knuckle/rolling knuckle is the best path to absurd damage output with fists
hold attack, punch forever
constantly escalating damage a la ares legendary, except instead of unwieldy blade rifts it's just Punches
gloomy vine
I'm not convinced the attack speed on aspect of zag fists is working. I timed how long it took to kill skele using fully leveled zag and talos fists by holding down attack and they both kill in approximately same time (just under 17s). Has anyone else tested this or felt same?
atomic mist
I can check it out. Just a moment
gloomy vine
Just did it again. 16.6s on zag, 16.7s on talos. This is with within the uncertainty of me starting and stopping timer for sure, can't call that significant difference
atomic mist
I got 16,21 on Zag, 17,06 on Demeter (doesn't matter if it's Talos or Dem right?)
gloomy vine
Talos and dem should be same yes.
solid cairn
Did you count the frames in a video software
gloomy vine
No, this was literally just a quick test as it didn't feel right to me. Timed on phone stopwatch. Not accurate but repeated it 3 times each
solid cairn
Yeah start when skelly takes damage from first hit and end on the frame that the killing hit connects
gloomy vine
Ok, I captured a video. Will post results in a bit.
solid cairn
Aight
gloomy vine
Zag: Start=285 finish=1268 Diff=983
Talos: Start=1778 finish=2777 Diff=999
hearty pilot
hm
the difference doesn't super matter. although dodge is useful
between the aspects*
waxen furnace
talos run, aphro special. just got long knuckle and some chaos atk damage boost, looking like this will be an attack based run. what are y'alls favourite talos attack god options?
gloomy vine
So at 60fps 16.38s to kill skele vs 16.65s to kill skele without attack speed
so it is working. feels underwhelming
waxen furnace
was going to go dio attack, but all these attack buffs would be wasted in that case. maybe arte attack?
or go full aphro, get the high % boost
mighty ermine
dio is good for fists but artemis is too, for sure
waxen furnace
yeah I like dio, esp with aphro special. I was just wondering given that I have 20% extra damage from long knuckle and 40% from a chaos boon and have just left tartarus, maybe I should lean into a damage boosting boon
then again, the base damage is low enough anyways that % boon damage isn't too meaningful
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/673173892537253898/688155981364068360/unknown.png is flying cutter even worth picking up? I've heard kinda all charged specials are p crap
waxen furnace
and long knuckle is still useful in dio applications as well
mighty ermine
if you got artemis crits, they would definitely be hitting hard. dio would also work well regardless of attack buffs
hearty pilot
flying cutter is decent ig
gloomy vine
You need it for your prophecy anyway so why not just try it out?
hearty pilot
i dont think like any of the hammer special work with demeter >_>
mighty ermine
flying cutter is especially a waste on demeter aspect, yes
you can only use it when your special is not charged
waxen furnace
oh, just realized - I've already seen aphro, dio, zeus, poseidon this run. If I go for arte and don't get attack, I don't think I'll see that much more arte this run... maybe I'll just lean into dio
gloomy vine
I don't like the fist special much. I think the main use for the fists is fast on-hit procs using the main attack. Dio or zeus come to mind. Talos is pretty cool though with aphro.
I was thinking zag aspect would be strongest but that attack speed buff even at full upgrade feels very underwhelming
waxen furnace
one note on the testing - "time to kill skelly" can be off by as much as maybe ~1/3rd of a second. probably doesn't matter much here, just a note
it's not the most accurate way of figuring out attack speed buff effectiveness, as damage is discrete
river matrix
Is anyone else noticing way fewer available boons in this new patch, or am I just having some unlucky runs?
waxen furnace
I've noticed reduced boon rarity personally, but might be anecdotal
can't comment on boon availability as I've been running God's Favor (and loving it)
jagged cairn
I just noticed that Talos special can hit Skullcrushers in the air.
waxen furnace
oh neat!
only that first pull-hit though
which makes sense - otherwise the other aspects would hit it too
jagged cairn
I haven't tried testing everything else, but never saw it happen with other aspects / weapons.
celest dagger
for athena's reduced dmg from traps with sure footing
would the boiling blood waves count as traps
fresh coral
Quick question, with the mirror upgrade Family Favorite (+% DMG for every boon of different gods), does Chaos count?
hearty pilot
iirc no
still idol
Not the legendary i wanted, but still pretty decent run https://i.imgur.com/0Z60qm4.png
hearty pilot
bc chaos isn't an olympian
fresh coral
Makes sense, I guess
dense locust
okay im experience a weird bug after I first booned ares attack and 2nd impending doom
my doom doesn't apply most of the time
wait
nvm
still idol
hell yeah, finally got the last sword aspect \o/
still idol
yes, but needs to get upgraded to lvl 3 at least
sullen valley
So I gather no one knows how to get that Artemis Zeus questline?
jagged cairn
Just did a stupid money run. Bought everything in Styx and have over 900 Obol left.
sullen valley
It's a bit awkward when you're using Chaos Shield and you just dash up close to a bloodless only to get hit while realizing your real shield hasn't come back...
hoary iris
What, how
sullen valley
Probably Cthonic Purse, Golden Touch, and avoided buying things.
That's what I'd do
hoary iris
that reminds me, i finished a run using Zeus shield and Hades talked to me as if i choosed chaos shield
oh yeah i forgot about golden touch, pretty good passive if you dont buy anything early
dense locust
@wild fiber It's incredibly strong but it's weak until it's leveled up
sullen valley
Good for CQC or area control, I think.
Like a free Ares Rift
But stronger and imbued
jagged cairn
oh I forgot a use of shady. used it now and have over 1k lol
sullen valley
lol, that works too
jagged cairn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/510591566164000788/688167827802554425/hades.png
My screenshots aren't working right for some reason, so the Styx shop one is missing. Fortunately, I still had this screen up before noticing.
still idol
nice title
sullen valley
uh, wow.
kind cloud
You know...I hadn't noticed the changing titles until recently.
jagged cairn
I wouldn't have that title if I didn't use my last Summon in the boss fight. lol
quiet arrow
teleporting shield shades in elysium are the bane of my bow runs
remote rain
is it just me or can the shades in elysium now hit you in between your attacks
icy girder
Finally beat the game for the first time.
sly marsh
icy girder
hard but I once I figured out his attack patterns I managed it.
quiet arrow
nice! first of many 💪
icy girder
just have to be really careful with your movement.
got all excited to get out at last
then Woops still early access
pretend you got your ass kicked lol
ded
quiet arrow
haha yeah the little ending cutscenes are pretty amusing
there are some good ones
tfw u just want to encounter the tiny vermin but u get the giant saytr instead 😔
dense locust
omg I really wish they'd fix the bug with poseidon call
hushed ledge
Final boss feels significantly harder than any other part of the game tbh, I need to take the fight much slower
lusty sequoia
tiny vermin was pretty hard
static skiff
Lol final boss melting builds are so much fun
lusty sequoia
mightve just been cos i wasnt expecting it
hushed ledge
I always end up with builds that just tear through rooms and then can't do bosses
static skiff
Im the exact opossite. I lose most of my hp from elysium doods and asphodel fire
hushed ledge
I'm also just not very good at bosses tbf
static skiff
It takes time, by your 100th run you'lk find it hard to lose a run lol
hushed ledge
A big part is that I played a load near release and then not that much after
So I know all the Z1/Z2 enemies well
And z3/z4 enemies are fairly easy to learn
But the bosses I struggle to not just accept that I'll take some damage
hushed ledge
I have not found any summons yet
static skiff
Oof. Do you have all keepsakes?
hushed ledge
I don't think this save file has Thanatos unlocked yet lmao
static skiff
If thats all thats fine, an order I suggest is any god ks for z1, followed by the purse z2, acorn z3 and the skelly ks z4
hushed ledge
Rn I've been focusing on getting keepsakes to rank 3
static skiff
But the sauce to consistent wins is hit the enemy, dont get hit Kappa
hushed ledge
Yep
queen prawn
bronze sorrel
Anyone know how multiple Dodge effects stack in this game? Do they not stack at all? Do they stack directly by adding percentages together? Is each dodge calculated as a compound event? For instance, if I have Lambent Plume at 25 stacks (30% Dodge), Legendary Zag Aspect Fists of Malphus (15% Dodge), and Epic Greater Evasion (25% Dodge), is my total chance to dodge 30% (doesn't stack), 70% (stack directly), or 55.4% (compound, and forgive me if I did the math wrong, taking statistics was a while ago for me)?
dense locust
I think they stack directly but that there is a cap
I don't know this for sure at all so take it with a grain of pepper
Also, I believe some attacks cannot be dodged, like Hade's spin attack
it can be dodged through iframes from dashing
but I had 81% dodge and he hit me every single time
If dodge is calculated as a sum
bronze sorrel
Well that could lend itself to the compound events theory
dense locust
It's official, I'm the Fisher King: https://imgur.com/ftPCMEd
bronze sorrel
Well I'm about to do some science. I'll let you know if I get a dodge on the spear sweep.
frozen tinsel
What is the reason items in Charon's shop at the 4th level are more expensive? Do they have any benefit for being more expensive to buy?
dense locust
you can buy an extra hermes boon beyond the max you can get prior to styx
hoary iris
Why cant i give nectar/ambrosia to an NPC after i talk to them, is so annoying
dense locust
it is annoying but you'll get used to gifting first
some you can gift after
unless they disappear
bronze sorrel
Ok, so I think you're right about spear sweep being undodgeable, it hit me 100% of the time as well, where alot of other stuff missed. Pretty sure beams, and a number of area effects are also non-dodgeable. I guess we won't know direct stacking vs compound events for sure without a Dev waying in, unless someone knows how to get into the coding to check.
dense locust
Someone quite knowledgeable on here said it was additive but the cap was 80%
but that was a while ago and i have no idea if they were right
But thank you for confirming my suspicion about the spin attack
bronze sorrel
they may be. If I had to guess, I'd say it felt like I was dodging around 67.6 percent of stuff, but its hard to say based on just the feels of it.
tough echo
Does Malphon 's Special able to proc Backstab?
bronze sorrel
67.6
dense locust
unless you're mid run
bronze sorrel
wait how would I test it on skelly
dense locust
I think that guy might have been right about there being a cap and dodge being additive
sorry that was for Imran
bronze sorrel
oh ok
lol
also, pretty sure the answer is yes on that but can't remember for sure
tough echo
Thanks
bronze sorrel
Man, if the dodge really does stack directly thats insanely broken. I feel like that easily makes Fists of Malphus the best Zag Aspect weapon on its own and attack speed is no small thing either.
tough echo
And the verdict is: No it doesn't proc backstab.
bronze sorrel
ah, good to know!
lusty sequoia
doesnt the coin purse only work if you take it at the start?
bronze sorrel
:/ not sure, I haven't had trouble getting enough gold in a while.
hoary iris
I finally got all the Duos, god that took me forever
bronze sorrel
I just had 1700 to spend at the final Charon shop.
lusty sequoia
wowee
ill test it next time i play
just curious why the acorn for the third stage?
bronze sorrel
the new mirror upgrade that gives you gold at the end of each realm is super good
way better than the purple version
lusty sequoia
oh ok
bronze sorrel
gold is for Styx not for Tartarus :p
lusty sequoia
i havent tried any of the green ones yet really
some of them seem kinda clunky/useless
although High Confidence is sick
not for me cos im bad
but great design
bronze sorrel
ya, I don't like some, some are clearly better, some are build dependent
like 50% backstab vs 50% first hit damage bonus, I feel is pretty build dependent
though I pick Backstab more often
lusty sequoia
maybe firsthit is better for crit builds
bronze sorrel
I've mainly been using it for Hesita aspect rail
autumn tapir
Shadow Slash on Arthur does so much damage, especially on a crit
bronze sorrel
Oh ya, for sure I was getting like 1500 damage hits earlier.
Excalibur is mega broken
gloomy vine
You could probably find out yourself by going through the lua scripts
You can see some entries in json files have a IgnoreDodge = true attribute
autumn tapir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgUCcoQSd4c&feature=youtu.be seriously I love this
this definitely isn't even an "optimal" boon setup either
kind cloud
in stage 2, why are the numbers climbing from 216 to 432 to 540 to 630 to 720? what boon is causing that increasing damage?
inland meadow
sooo this happened .... https://gyazo.com/9b78c8bdd47e156cd062e6974fa4f7fe
autumn tapir
uhh lemme check
can you give me a timestamp, there's a couple different +damage boons I had like Billowing Strength and Ravenous Will
burnt rune
I swear they raised the chances of legendaries appearing
kind cloud
@autumn tapir from 1:14 on when you use the zeus call and zeus says "easily achieved" the damage starts increasing by about 90-100 (the number is in yellow) and hades starts losing health crazy fast
scarlet kindle
theres a zeus boon that boosts damage when using calls
autumn tapir
so it's not actually increasing by that much, it's condensing each lightning bolt hit into one total number
(and I also have that boon)
zeus call just does an insane amount of damage by default
scarlet kindle
oh the lightning
kind cloud
billowing strength is the boon iirc @scarlet kindle.
@autumn tapir did you also have jolted?
scarlet kindle
yeah zeus call is strong
autumn tapir
yes
thorny oriole
https://i.imgur.com/R78HADL.jpg
nice cursed slash build
autumn tapir
zeus boons were Lvl. 3 Static Discharge, Billowing Strength, Clouded Judgement, Zeus Aid
kind cloud
Everyone with < 200 health points, I don't know how you do it. I get nervous if i enter the hades fight with anything less than 300 health and 350+ to be safe.
maybe i'm just terrible at this game
burnt rune
cursed slash excalibur sounds fun but I didn't take the plunge yet, even though the game keeps offering me cursed slash...
autumn tapir
I've played...a lot of Hades
plus Aspect of Arthur gives you a nice safety net with the safety field
kind cloud
i mean...i've been playing this game for 18 months now and i've had over 250+ successful runs (up to 32 heat pre-new patch) but i still can't get any run (including 0 heat runs) under 20 mins.
burnt rune
I only got 300 health once and it was by accident
too many darkness and hearts rooms + excalibur and chaos
kind cloud
wut
it might be because i have a bias for centaur hearts especially if i get aphrodite's life affirmation boon which increases heart points by 30-42%. just last night i had a build with 480 health points and all death defiances intact
burnt rune
0_0
kind cloud
but i suppose the opportunity cost (re: trade off) is that i don't use fated authority enough to compel enough boons so i don't stack damage as well as i can/should
i've only had a handful of truly broken builds (and, not coincidentally, in those runs i had the fewest amount of health points 250-280).
prime knoll
Hey all- anyone know how auto-reload is supposed to work? It told me I'd regenerate my cast every 0.79 seconds, but it's not. It says 2.5 now that I've chosen it (which seems accurate to what it's actually doing).
*I'm using Stygian Soul
lime estuary
Does anyone have any advice for Arthur Aspect on Forced Overtime?
burnt rune
@prime knoll someone mentioned that in the feedback channel recently, either it's a typo or bugged I think
inland meadow
@lime estuary abuse the crap out of his aura it is a very large slow
civic barn
2.5 should be the right time for stygian soul regeneration
rapid holly
Can you backstab Hades or asterius/thesius?
civic barn
yes, i believe so; i don't think there are enemies you can't backstab even if it isn't clear where the front is?
rapid holly
I'm pretty set on my preferred mirror settings but was wondering in regards to shadow of fiery presence
civic barn
i feel like it depends on the weapon; if you can hit with a big hit first like with rail or spear, i prefer fiery, but say with the fists i prefer shadow
rapid holly
I like to play close and dash through, so always going for backstab
lime estuary
I don’t think the Hydra can be backstabbed
burnt rune
Yeah, Hydra cannot, the other bosses can afaik
Hades turns so fast >.>
Thesus is easy because of the shield though
civic barn
oh is the back of the head not a backstab zone? 🤔 good to know
tidal thorn
2500 damage ain't nothing to mess with
kind cloud
i've revised my opinion of the excalibur sword, i'm not liking it for higher heats especially with forced overtime. maybe i'll feel differently on a controller but i don't like it on keyboard and mouse.
re: aphrodite's call (2500 damage)
the problem with using it is you may not get the full 2500 effect meaning if a boss is close to one of its impervious pauses, then you only get as much damage as it takes to get him/her/it to it.
so it's best to time it. for instance, in stage 2 of hades fight, wait till hades has used his impervious pause at halfways point and then fire it.
night path
it's not the damage that's useful about it
well
i mean it is
but that's just the icing on the cake
it interupts w/e he's doing
with the right call boons you can stun lock him
and if he's doing laser beams, if you interupt him, he'll try to keep using it each time
provided he doesnt invuln
mighty ermine
Yeah, I always save my maxed call for after hades has done his phase 2 50% invuln
kind cloud
Yeah, i just had one of those with zeus build with leveled up jolted plus 55% double strike chance plus his legendary splitting bolt. poor hades. walked in with 420 health. walked away with 360 health.
naive tusk
Do a barrel roll 🍥
hushed ledge
it's just so many procs
kind cloud
Yes. I experimented with Malphon fists today. Talos is super awesome with poseidon plus razor shoals plus any typhon's fury. You can pull almost all enemies with magnet cutter and then do slam/barrier damage that wipes them out. Works well on single target as well as in a crowd. Upon reflection, I prefer this build for melee combat.
I've yet to try with zeus on any of the aspects but demeter is quite useful too.
mighty ermine
Artemis feels really good on em too
hushed ledge
zeus attack on fists is really good vs z3 boss as well because you get crazy damage from the bounces
kind cloud
Yeah. that's why some thing the fists are like the rail in some ways.
tidal thorn
How do you run Talos fists? I haven't done well enough with them to finish a run. More meaning I off myself because I don't find it doing enough damage or just to much work for the best damage.
kind cloud
So I had 2 tallos builds today. In the first run, I realized that the some enemies get stunned into like a pillar or trap or a wall. That indicated to me that poseidon might be a perfect fit because poseidon gives LOTS of damage for slamming opponents into walls and barriers.
But for poseidon's build to work, razor shoals is a must combined with typhon's fury. I would pull an enemy toward me, hit him/her/it with the special in tartarus. it helps to have poseidon dash too because then no one can get close to you. by the time i was in elysium, i had typhon's fury and i was dashing around, any enemy that survived the AOE blast I would pull toward me with magnetic cutter and hit with poseidon special.
And if you can, try to get zeus attack so that you have a chance at sea storm which is just overkill
I wiped out hades.
tidal thorn
Don't worry about a cast?
kind cloud
Yeah, don't worry about cast at all.
kind cloud
But if you want cast, then go get artemis cast. That would essentially make the talos fists like the poseidon sword with artemis cast.
artemis cast is super useful if you get aretmis secondary cast with legendary.
civic barn
i think any cast is fine; the damage boost only comes when you have the purple target mark i think, and it's quite a bit less than poseidon aspect
kind cloud
@tidal thorn have you tried artemis cast? she has a honing cast and has crit
civic barn
so you don't have to rely on picking a good cast
tidal thorn
@civic barn THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW
kind cloud
@civic barn true, i still have posiedon as the superior weapon of choice for cast build because yeah, no purple target
tidal thorn
Holy cow I feel like you hit me with an epiphany
kind cloud
in poseidon, artemis will just lock on to anything that is near you and then start clearing enemies out
naive tusk
#The epiphany of the week
civic barn
yeah the wording isn't super clear on it, like a few other things in the game
tidal thorn
Off topic question: what's your minimum heat? Since they put in Benefits Package in game I've been running 12 heat for everything. Ex Meas, Mid Man, and Benefits. I've been calling it "boss heat" in my head.
kind cloud
i'm doing 14 heat as base
i'm trying to improve my time
so give me a sec..
i'm using max forced overtime, max enemies (jury summons), max calisthenics, max 2 blue hearts, and then a random one like maybe 20% more damage and/or 40% increase in prices
tidal thorn
I still haven't run Forced OT more than once. That's probably something I'd run by itself for a run or two.
kind cloud
you may or may not be new to the game. once you get used to the speed of forced overtime lvl 1 and then lvl 2, it no longer becomes a problem.
if anything, game feels super easy if you go down to normal enemy speed.
tidal thorn
I've got ~150 hours. Just something I haven't tried yet.
hushed ledge
to be fair that's probably true for most heat's
once you adapt to it it's just easy otherwise
kind cloud
touche!
for instance, i'm trying to adapt to tight deadline right now.
i can do 9 minutes.
but 7 minutes is a problem for me especially in elysium
hushed ledge
I haven't really played since forever, so i'm playing mostly 0 heat and just slowly getting bounties while i also improve
tidal thorn
See, I could do tight deadline really easy if I just paused the game.
hushed ledge
I can consistently get to Hades but i just die then 😦
kind cloud
it's a good strategy. allows you to build up darkness for mirror @hushed ledge and get necessary prereqs to unlock news aspects of weapons
hushed ledge
yeah def
tidal thorn
Instead all my runs are a half hour because 7-10 min is spent on choices.
hushed ledge
aspect's have been really fun to try out
tidal thorn
Unlocking new aspects is the best.
kind cloud
yeah, if there's anything SgG does well (and they do A LOT well), it's how much variety they have in their games
hushed ledge
tbh there was a lot of variety in this game even on release
when it was just 4 weapons no aspects not really even heat iirc
kind cloud
i missed out on the very first release, i was in the next gen
kind cloud
i weep for what the sword once was
hushed ledge
sword was so bad that i'm still proud of clearing with it
hushed ledge
on release sword was unplayable
hushed ledge
10-10-10 damage chain
kind cloud
on release ok
hushed ledge
slow ass 40 damage special
slow oar
So the shield currently has a bug where you can hold your charged strike and still use your special while staying in a blocking position. The game will allow you to keep spamming this until you take damage. I don't think you're supposed to be able to throw the shield you're trying to block with at the same time. I wasn't sure where to share things like this.
hushed ledge
dash attack was 10 as well iirc, and bad hammers
kind cloud
I mentioned that a few weeks ago and people thought i was crazy
slow oar
Yeah, my buddy is streaming this on our discord server
and i'm watching him
until he did that
tidal thorn
Might want to F10 and put it in feedback.
slow oar
and was like "Hmmmm, that doesn't seem OP at all"
hushed ledge
oh so it's just release shield 
slow oar
I can't post in feedback rn
tidal thorn
Go check bot commands at the bottom.
kind cloud
i can't do it consistently but it happens every now and then
slow oar
Will do
tidal thorn
Should be in the pinned post.
kind cloud
there's also one where you can charge up the shield and then the bullrush won't happen.
that one can be quite annoying when you're expecting to bulldoze through a crowd
hushed ledge
I struggle to play spear well, it feels like i just want to be staying and poking from as far as i can away, but that isn't great for dps
slow oar
Spear wouldn't be bad if it had a better attack animation imo
kind cloud
Actually, I used to be the same way about the Spear until...StrongDong introduced me to a baller build
slow oar
The problem is that it's best attack is a dash strike, and has no combos unlike the sword
I'm def a bow player at heart
dense locust
Which build was that?
kind cloud
guan yu with special (which functions like the hammer boon for special)
naive tusk
It had balls ⚽️
dense locust
Oh yeah that
Someone pointed out today you can do 32 heat now without FO and be completely effed because of the addtional heat changes
SO i really wanna try guan yu spin attack build
not be completely effed
A wild peach appears
Guan yu pretty much demands max level aspect though
waxen furnace
why does Nyx have so much dialogue before getting to Excal D:
kind cloud
- unlock guan yu
- get athena for special
- get hammer upgrade charged skewer (200% damage)
- het hermes boon for increased special speed
- (overkill) get ares boon that gives you 150% damage for next attack on special after killing an enemy
naive tusk
Because story, yay
lusty sequoia
I don’t really like charged skewer, it feels too slow
waxen furnace
I don't want to rush through it as I know I'm going to spend months dialogue-less, and I'm really enjoying the dialogue
I just wish excal was at the start of it so I could try out this shiny new toy
dense locust
I gotta say, I feel like calls are neglected on this discord. Athena or poseidon call will a lot of the time determine if I win or lose a run
kind cloud
that's why you either need to maintain distance or get hermes special speed @lusty sequoia.
i play on max forced overtime and it didn't bother me at all
dense locust
Also I only use athena and poseidon calls...
hushed ledge
calls are just something you pick up on the side imo
lusty sequoia
Are the Hermes speed boosts that good though
dense locust
See that's what im saying, they are considered secondary
kind cloud
yes, epic ones are for sure
lusty sequoia
They don’t seem to do that much
turbid needle
Drift Dash and Greatest Reflex (Rare or better) are, yes.
lusty sequoia
Oh fair
turbid needle
Not so much Greater Haste.
waxen furnace
I'm not sure calls are neglected really. I think it's more that they don't always synergize with a build all too much, and are just supplemental damage or survivability
lusty sequoia
Oh sure greatest reflex is sick
dense locust
But that's my point, i think they are being overlooked
hushed ledge
they're good, but they don't really go "oh yeah this is X build so i have to have Y call"
lusty sequoia
I probably just see low rarities more tbh
dense locust
Poseidon call level 2 epic is about 900 damage per call, gives you invul, and is up very quickly. Gives you a free dodge in hades
lusty sequoia
Guess they don’t combo as well hey
surreal jolt
that guan yu build sounds exactly my flood shot spam build, where you just buff that endlessly and sit back and press 1 button
dense locust
I would argue it's a priority before the big boons in a build
surreal jolt
I guess I could use that to finally get a spear run completed
dense locust
or even a second hammer in some cases
lusty sequoia
I do like Poseidon call a lot
hushed ledge
but it doesn't define a build
dense locust
Athena call can
waxen furnace
not much to do until the next RG patch lol
dense locust
it allows you to just hug hades with fists
hushed ledge
fair, i'm doing GF on R127 for some reason lmao
lusty sequoia
Aphrodite is good too but rarely useful on bosses since it takes too long to get to the max
dense locust
also I've done like 19 mitten runs in a row so I can only think about fists
waxen furnace
why do that to yourself
turbid needle
Because the Kitten Mittens are awesome.
hushed ledge
I was afk for a month so i already was over half way lmao 😛
kind cloud
because pulverizing enemies is fun
hushed ledge
but yeah, calls are good
surreal jolt
aphrodite isnt worth for bosses unless you have call boosting boons, its no different then going a crit build imo
dense locust
Well I wanted to at least get them to 20 heat
lusty sequoia
I haven’t got the hang of fists yet, any tips?
dense locust
so i have 1 more to go
surreal jolt
by the time you get that magical god crit attack, your aprodite wouldve done the same thing
kind cloud
btw, am i the only one that thinks of the iron man hulkbuster suit that has the automatic punching hands against the hulk?
dense locust
@lusty sequoia I can post some builds I saved
lusty sequoia
Yes please
surreal jolt
i think of devil may cry 3 for the fists
hushed ledge
mittens to me remind me of fighting games in the uppercut lol
if there isn't a hammer that basically makes uppercut a DP that would be sweet
turbid needle
Like, that provides invulnerability?
civic barn
talos is basically devil bringer
surreal jolt
only invul when its EX
hushed ledge
only if you're playing SF
surreal jolt
otherwise the pros will complain and cap-supergiant will nerf
hushed ledge
imagine not playing games with wake up f1 invuln DP's
(hitbox doesn't come out f1 of course)
but like a hammer that made uppercut invincible, but if needed have a bit of endlag
turbid needle
I can't play traditional fighting games for beans, but I watch DBFZ and dabble in Melee.
waxen furnace
been really liking aphro special start on talos fist. poseidon was fun but I felt like it fell off near the end, once I started actually wanting to use attack
kind cloud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWJ-Njeaig
1:30 to 1:37 is what i think of when i think of the twin fists.
civic barn
have you tried the rush kick upgrade? I'm fairly certain it doesn't have any invulnerability frames, but the way you can move with it almost makes me think it does
hushed ledge
i play lots of smash but i'm legitimately probably a better player at guilty gear after like not very long lol
trad fighters are just so much easier to neutral
dense locust
@lusty sequoia First off, I've found the mits to be pretty flexible as far as builds. You want the attack to be something that benefits from a lot of hits, prioritize getting the +1000% damage to armor from dash attack hammer if it's not super late in the run, and make sure your mirror upgrades are smart
naive tusk
Bridget main here~
dense locust
Some fun builds: https://imgur.com/cNPfviL https://imgur.com/7Bm0Phs https://imgur.com/WG8b62z
surreal jolt
beowulf no royal guard build player here ama
gloomy vine
@kind cloud just fyi you can add &t={numberOfSeconds} to the end of url when you want to post a specific point part of a youtube clip. So in your case when you want to link us to 1:30 you can put &t=90 to the end and the clip will start at the right time
edit: it is a small t not a capital T
turbid needle
I've been stuck on Cerberus for two years. 
(I haven't played in two years, but there was a solid week of attempts where I made exactly 0 ground)
kind cloud
@gloomy vine thanks. i didn't know that.
i appreciate learning that. will be useful. so it's by number of seconds. got it.
hushed ledge
Hydra feels like such a good fight now tbh
it's very clean and none of it really feels BS
gloomy vine
@kind cloud I made one small mistake, it is a small t not a capital. Learning yaaaay
You can also do stuff like &t=1m30s if you don't want to work it out in seconds. Anyway I'm going to stop talking about this here as it is off topic
prime knoll
Dem's call is just the most fun to use. putting a big ice storm on the field is more fun that most of them to me.
Art's is really effective, and I like that, but most of them just don't wow me like putting chill on everything in a huge area
summer linden
demeter's is def my favorite it's just really solid
hoary musk
i honestly think I only ever go for demeter for the chill blast with casts
dense locust
Demeter is great on rail and mitten attack
prime knoll
@sacred idol @chrome geyser To me, most of the duos/legendaries are more novel than powerful, so perhaps if they get an overall bump to power, their generally reduced appearance rate would make more sense.
hoary musk
I should probably not skip on the call though, seeing as there isn't much an improvement with the others
dense locust
Especially with the new boiling blood alternative and new cast
prime knoll
Yeah, dem attack on the fists is great with the 10 stack splosion
sacred idol
Some really are crazy powerful though
dense locust
65% slow on the boss is pretty useful
prime knoll
Aye. Those wouldn't need to be bumped, then
dense locust
my favorite calls are poseidon, athena, and aphrodite
sacred idol
Also, I honestly prefer the version someone suggested where Rare/Epic and Legacy/More Boons one could be pairs instead.
Did you see that?
That was great feedback
hoary musk
Poseidon's my fave
sacred idol
Trade 40% rare for 20% epic
and Legacy (more legendaries) vs Chosen (more boons total)
dense locust
Even with the bug that launches me without any control, i still love poseidon call
sacred idol
that makes sense
prime knoll
Oh, yeah that makes more sense.
dense locust
Haha I was just thinking how weird it was that they paired those ones the way they did
prime knoll
I'll go find that to upvote it
turbid needle
Let me know when you find it.
turbid needle
Poseidon.
sacred idol
The only one I can think of is Dionysus requiring two boons... and fish boon being legendary, wtf?
hoary musk
fish boon should lowkey be a keepsake
sacred idol
Second Wave can be strong, especially with Sea Storm bolstering it.
Yeah, agreed.
Please suggest that right now.
opal bay
And with new weapons I actually found out something. If you pair up Demeter gauntlets with Poseidon special you can actually knock away bosses across the room
hoary musk
done
pearl plank
I think the problem with making the 40% rare and 20% epic night upgrades into the pair is that there's not much reason to pick either one over the other
turbid needle
Exactly.
pearl plank
As it is now, your choices are "better boons vs. better chance at unique boons" and "better boons vs. more boons"
wheras if you did it like that, it'd be "better boons vs. better boons"
scarlet kindle
just finished a 16 heat run for the first time
wasnt too bad but teleporting enemies with forced overtime and aspect of arthur were super frustrating
sacred idol
I mean, there is still a tradeoff involved: More slightly better boons, vs slightly more significantly better boons.
and higher tier boons vs more boons total
quantity vs quality makes logical sense.
also, currently, the way it's set up is - if you take either new perk, the answer is "oops, all commons"
pearl plank
But why would you want one or the other? What difference in playstyle is there between +40% rare or +20% epic?
celest hollow
Even with the rarity perks you get a lot of Commons now
sacred idol
Being set up this way adds a hidden "penalty" to the perk: Vastly increased Common chance.
Uh... you get more consistent, lower level power increases vs less consistent spikes in power?
I mean, there is a bigger difference between Rarities than Ranks.
Epic makes a huge difference.
celest hollow
Rarity on many boons had their scaling nerfed anyway
sacred idol
Currently, is it ever worth taking the alternate perks?
celest hollow
Not really
sacred idol
If you take them, you're mostly doomed to have common boons.
Which makes the answer "usually, no".
pearl plank
That's a balance issue, though, innit
sacred idol
Well, what would address that issue while keeping them as is?
Because "More boons, but they're all crap" is never a worthwhile trade
pearl plank
Make commons less garbage, presumably
sacred idol
So... change all boons across the board just to resolve it...
or modify all base rarities to make the +rarity less mandatory feeling
that'd actually be an answer, btw
just nerfing common chance, full stop
less need for perks to ensure non-trash boons = more room to gamble with legendaries or sheer quantity.
pearl plank
My point isn't that the system is perfect, my point is that the choice between +40% rare and +20% epic is kind of meaningless? What kinds of considerations are there in making that decision
sacred idol
also, less work than changing the base values of most boons AND adjusting multipliers on rarity across the board - the calculation is base x rarity multiplier.
I just gave you an answer, though.
turbid needle
The influx of Commons recently has reminded me that we don't need a ton of Rares and Epics to clear, they just make it easier.
sacred idol
The jump from common to epic is much larger.
turbid needle
That being said, I could have just said "git gud" and not even realized it, so take my word with a grain of salt.
sacred idol
All my common-reliant runs have been miserably sluggish even on low heat...
prime knoll
A bigger boost to the new boon chance upgrades seems reasonable. +10% chance to find more boons (in practice hasn't felt very useful). It's all chance, of course, but so far I've tried it three time with that and gotten wildly different boon totals by Elysium- one run with only two boons. I switched it back and had 8 boons by that same point in the next run (5 in Tartarus).
pearl plank
Why would I want More slightly better boons, vs slightly more significantly better boons, though
sacred idol
And that's with the most busted builds I can get
kind cloud
how high does olympian pride (legendary increase chance) go?
clear dome
10
prime knoll
10 for both
kind cloud
thanks. and same question for chosen?
prime knoll
both of the new ones*
kind cloud
ok, got it. thanks.
turbid needle
I think it's 15%.
sacred idol
@pearl plank because one is more consistent.
turbid needle
Olympian Legacy, more Legendaries/Duos, is 15%.
pearl plank
Marginally, though. It's a 1/5 difference of consistency
prime knoll
oh yeah, legacy is 15%
pearl plank
I'll be honest, I'm not sure how the maths runs under the hood
sacred idol
I mean, they could be reverted to 50% and 25%.
kind cloud
ok, so it's 15%
pearl plank
But spread out over an entire run, that consistency increase would be flattened
prime knoll
to be fair, the chaos boon that increases rarity never feels useful to me right now because of the flat 40% I get from the mirror
sacred idol
that depends on how the run turns out?
prime knoll
and I generally want to increase sure things rather than bet on chances
pearl plank
Simplifying the maths by a HUUUGE margin, what's the difference in playstyle between 2 epics and 8 commons, and 4 rares and 6 commons
Or whatever the maths actually turns out to produce
sacred idol
concentrating on one or two attacks vs having more aspects of your kit be viable?
turbid needle
I run L/D chance and Epic chance, so I take every Yarn I can and every Chaos Favor I see.
prime knoll
depends on the epics
kind cloud
i'm experiencing massive frame drops with talon fists
pearl plank
Yes, but you don't know the build when you're at the mirror
hushed ledge
Tbh I do wonder if shifting some of the chances onto base would be better for new players
kind cloud
anything after tartarus and the there's major lag
prime knoll
could be awesome or it could be +19 dashes more than you need while you ping common attack damage at every boss
pearl plank
So what goes into my thought process of picking one over the other
kind cloud
and i've got a pretty good gpu and graphics card
sacred idol
if I'm taking Artemis, I'm playing with Crit RNG anyway
So I'd always prefer to take Epic
wait, my memory may be shot
I'm running on fumes right now, please remind me if I've screwed up and the crit chance is fixed.
if the crit is fixed, disregard that, and pretend I said Aphrodite for raw damage.
with Aphrodite I'd generally prefer an epic though, the damage multiplier is absolutely massive
pearl plank
In this hypothetical, you don't know the build, you're standing at the mirror of night, and you're presented with 2 epics and 8 commons, or 4 rares and 6 commons. You don't know what boons are going to be what, you just know the chances you're getting
sacred idol
I have my keepsake menu.
I'll probably try to force at least one god I want on my aspect.
prime knoll
@kind cloud I have noticed generally better performance but my framerate does drop with fists sometimes. I've mainly noticed it if I'm hitting several foes with Hunter's Mark (applying and reapplying it rapidly)
sacred idol
I'd rather pick differently for my chosen god
opal bay
Current system of how the boons blessing are picked basically legendary or duo?>if met requirements possibly yes, if not pick epic, if not pick rare if not pick common. Or something. I maybe mistaken how the system works.
sacred idol
But the other thing is that 8 commons is a lot more polarizing; it can be very good, if your two core boons are epics and they scale very well with rarity, or very bad if your important ones are all common and the epics are all stuff like "more chains on your common zeus lightning"
if I'm running Zeus attack, it really is a meaningful choice, because Epic will be a huge power spike. I am gambling hard if I choose Epic chance - I can have an incredible run, or an awful one.
It's not a difference of like 20% damage.
pearl plank
Alright, I understand the difference between the two now, but compare this to all of the other mirror of night pairs
prime knoll
Perhaps it's worth shifting to compare the choice between "more boons" or "more chance at leg/duo"
sacred idol
More boons/more legendary is also the same, quantity vs quality
but the fact is that boon rarity scaling is really dependent on boon and god.
prime knoll
I honestly feel like that choice is a challenge- one that I like
sacred idol
it is not a simple "rare is good enough, just take fewer commons"
or "rare sucks, gamble on epics and reset bad seeds"
prime knoll
In general, greater shot at the duos/legs means diddly if all your other stuff is common (or you don't have many boons)
sacred idol
zeus attackers live and die by rarity... I believe I misremembered and Artemis actually cares least of all
pearl plank
I guess I just don't think it's interesting enough a choice to justify the split like that
sacred idol
common Art attack is about as good if you've got nothing better, my bad
agree to disagree
pearl plank
Yeah, agreed
sacred idol
I find it a really valuable tactical choice
but the main thing is
I want it to NOT be a generally universal penalty to take green mirror here.
pearl plank
Yeah, definitely agreed with you there
sacred idol
I want to be able to take legendary chance without crippling myself.
Or More Boons without utterly tanking my viability into the floor with an ocean of garbage
also, in theory the Green Run should be viable by itself
just like the Purple Run is a viable perk setup
quite a few do synergize, like stygian/abyssal lets you debuff everyone and their mother and really works into this more defensive concept
pearl plank
I think there's an argument to be made that not every choice has to be competitively viable. "Stupid, but fun" can be a nice choice as well, it's just that the alts further down the tree are neither stupid enough nor fun enough to justify it
prime knoll
If nothing else, I'd like the green options to have higher boosts. I don't know how the algorithm for rooms works, but the +10% chance at boons/poms seems pretty minor compared to +20% epic rarity for everything you do see.
sacred idol
it's just this super polarized double green choice of "look at the ocean of commons you have now" that's like... welcome to hell, with extra pain
opal bay
Should we probably put into considerations the new reroll thing in this discussion? Since I know it rerolls rarity atm
sacred idol
I will say, I'd LOVE to be able to take the God's Chosen buff without regrets.
new reroll is godsawful and needs reworking
prime knoll
because a couple more boons isn't as impactful as better core boons
sacred idol
aka: dupe protection, holy hell
I have had so many runs where I would truly appreciate More Boons and Fewer Five Gem Rooms
pearl plank
Even if it was an ocean of commons but it was closer to +20% boons instead of +10% that could be interesting
sacred idol
see, I'm a player who has chronic One/Two Boon Tartarus disease.
and by all gods I'd kill to be free of it without getting 20 Common No DPS Syndrome instead
prime knoll
yeah, the new reroll is almost a non-discussion because it is (hopefully?) so bugged. I've only done a handful of runs since the update, and I think just about every one of them has had at least one fake reroll (got the same boons in the same order and rarity.
sacred idol
last time I ended up with a dozen commons, the theseus fight took like four minutes.
the longer bosses take the more defiance you eat too, unless you have an ultimate kiting combo like Stygian Scintillating Ice Wine
pearl plank
I think the core idea could be interesting, they just need to change the numbers
sacred idol
or are amazing at dodging, but not even being godly will kill 'em faster.
yeah, agreed, the concepts need work
like I do feel certain things need polish more than anything (read: Poseidon/Hera Stygian Soul interactions, Death Defiance boon interactions with Stubborn)
hushed ledge
now you know how new players feel
prime knoll
I definitely like what the green boons do, but I think I mostly agree with Felis about it skewing common rarity a ton. In the current state of the game, it has kind of become standard that you get a flat +20% epic and +40% rare as you reach higher heats (accumulate more darkness)
pearl plank
unless you take Routine Inspection lmao
prime knoll
so "giving the option" is inadvertently (in a way) changing the chance of commons as well.
sacred idol
oh, I'm not old enough to have forgotten @pearl plank
also, screw Inspection
with my No Boon disease it's just
litearlly unplayable
I will say, if Fated Persuasion is changed to bloody work, it'll be a lot better
Also, does anyone else feel that FP scaling on cost is ludicrous?
pearl plank
I will say, if Fated Persuasion is changed to bloody work, it'll be a lot better
unless you take Routine Inspection lmao
FP scaling is definitely ludicrous but it's clearly an endgame darkness sink so I'm cool w/ it
sacred idol
It has the old Fated Authority darkness costs, and costs more rerolls per roll, lmao
well so is fated authority
it's not better than FA
it shouldn't be so aggressively scaled
that scaling reroll cost is also awful, should just be 1:1
Also I mean. God's Chosen should be an effective counter to Routine.
And strong enough to sell itself based on that
turbid needle
Attempting a 32 Heat Nemesis Run. My normal go-to is Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, and Divine Dash for maximum Heart Rend damage while keeping some defense and potential offense if I get Deadly Reversal.
But right now I've got Hunter Dash for meaty dash attacks and Divine Flourish.
There's no Heart Rend spawn, but I can sell Divine Flourish right now.
turbid needle
That's +10% more spawns?
sacred idol
Oh wait
My bad, I meant Underworld Customs.
Hard countering customs is already a good idea
I forgot which perk they renamed. Big dumb
Routine Inspection still sucks, lmao
...maybe it is time to petition Supergiant to rework rarity chances?
First of all, I think the "fixed rate for challenge rooms" can die.
At one point it actually reduced the chance of Legendary/Duo.
pearl plank
I'm with you on rarities getting reworked a bit
sacred idol
After that, well, common should be less obscenely common.
after that, it's really just a matter of seeing how it feels and balancing the perks around that
pearl plank
%chance to fudge your run's DPS isn't super compelling gameplay
sacred idol
that kind of change needs aggregate playtesting, BUT I feel those two steps would be a good first
the hard way, and the dev time intensive one, would be to crunch Rarity multiplier numbers down and hand adjust all boon values to be better at base
that is probably not an option for a dev SGG's size, with their time commitments.
from some experience with QA and hearing the dev end of things? not fun.
surreal jolt
Finished a guan yu run trying the special spam build. Forgot I get 1 hammer a day but I did get the charged special. Got decent with spin attack management and got enough chaos+hearts to reach 130 hp. Got my first +defense against foes boon too. Still don't like spear really.
prime knoll
A spreadsheet of boons, rarities, levels, and their overall "power" obfuscated in some way could be used to shift some of the numbers around. It would be an undertaking and would rely on quite a bit of subjectivity. If nothing else, I'd like to see all those numbers just to mess with the data.
Styigan Soul with Trippy Shot 
turbid needle
Speedy teleporting Flamewheels on a 32 Heat Nemesis run.
I have never been this shook playing a video game.
simple shard
jesus christ how horrifying
pearl plank
question: is family favourite additive or multiplicative?
because if it's the latter, holy moses is that busted
opal bay
I think all effects in game are additive
pearl plank
I know crits aren't
livid dew
just beat a 16 heat run with the demeter gloves. im thinking of trying to do a 32 heat run with king arthur sword. any tips on which heats i should run
i typically do the boss ones so i have 5 heat right there
dense locust
I think fated persuasion is perfectly balanced
Try and not have FO on
if you are doing 32 arthur
or 1 point max
yay got 20 on the mits
livid dew
does aspect of nemesis crit chance add up with artemtis crit chance
turbid needle
Yes.
livid dew
nice
turbid needle
Haelian's got me beat by 4 minutes.
dense locust
ah haha
turbid needle
Unhealthy Fixation was nice, but I would have appreciated Heart Rend in Asphodel like I've seen before.
dense locust
fastest this patch?
turbid needle
Fastest time I've had on Heat that high by a mile.
And no, I think Haelian got his WR this week.
dense locust
did you use the same heats?
livid dew
what heats did ya pick?
turbid needle
It's listed in the screenshot, just gotta match it to a text database, lemme check.
dense locust
I gotta try that heat configuration
turbid needle
100 Hard Labor, 3 points in Extreme Measures, 1 point in Calisthenics, 2 points in Benefits Package, Underworld Customs and Middle Management, 2 points in Forced Overtime, Heightened Security, and 2 points in Tight Deadline.
dense locust
what's the basic strat with nemesis 32
turbid needle
Special -> Dash Attack x as many Dashes as you have -> Rinse -> Repeat
dense locust
how about companion and keepsakes
turbid needle
I only got Greatest Reflex in Styx, if I had got it as early as the Fury shop, that could have been a sub 14-minute run.
dense locust
That's super fast even for a low to no heat
turbid needle
The dream is (apparently) Aphrodite Attack, Artemis Special, Artemis Dash, and Athena Call.
I've been really liking Athena's Aid with Malphon and I bet it would be aces with this build to make up for the lack of Divine Dash.
dense locust
yeah that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking
Level it up and you can almost have it up 100% of the time
Get the aphro/artemis and artemis/athena duos
and you're in the money
turbid needle
Summon can probably vary, I just like Bouldy for the heals.
Deadly Reversal is less important than Heart Rend.
dense locust
I'm almost monogamous with bouldy
For sure
but it doesn't hurt
Honestly, those 3 gods are almost the ideal for any weapon
Huge defense and offense
what was the keepsake order?
turbid needle
Arrowhead, Rose, Coin Purse, Spearpoint.
dense locust
Hah i was guessing rose, arrowhead, cp, spear
You do runs quickly, any tips on a quick run?
turbid needle
I wanted an attack spawn to try another Concentrated Knuckle/Artemis build for 11 Heat, and said "Screw it, I'll burn this seed on a 32 Heat attempt."
dense locust
I guess having 0 jury summons is key
dense locust
Yeah sometimes you get a seed that doesn't fit at all what you were going for but could absolutely destroy with a different load out
turbid needle
Right? And now I could have my Zag Aspect build I want to try.
dense locust
I suppose my style of playing is pretty defensive
turbid needle
In that case, take the timer off (or down to 9 minutes).
dense locust
Yeah I tend to avoid the timer completely
turbid needle
That's what Benefits Package is for, to let players avoid the timer.
dense locust
Even at 9 I can't help but feel the pressure and play differently
turbid needle
It's 5 Heat, in the same 2/3 configuration.
dense locust
but that's probably good practice
turbid needle
You never have to turn the timer on.
dense locust
Yeah but I want to shoot for fast 32s
If I attempt a 40 I will avoid it like the plague
I will probably keep timer off until i 32 all weapons
Ugh, I had this run the other night with the bow on 32 and brought hades to 1/3 health on the second phase... Had to enter the fight with just 2 dds
steep sentinel
For some reason I did not expect killing freeze to straight up assassinate bosses at 10% lol
Demeter coming in and being like F YOU was kind of amazing
prime knoll
It's a relieving feeling when it goes off. You're all wound up to finish the desperate boss and then crack crack BOOM
sacred idol
Omae wa mou shindeiru.
prime knoll
💥
dense locust
for sure
stoic crest
clear dome
whaaa