but then i overfocus on proccing instead of just dealing damage
#h1-builds-and-combat
long sierra
gloomy vine
I find myself using Artemis more often than most gods
Dionysus is probably my least used
iron shale
i basically use aphro and demeter based on hit counts
so like excalibur gets aphro
but fists attack gets demeter
usually
my least used are doom boons from ares
*used
waxen furnace
is it just me or does fist dash-special feel weird?
you have to input dash followed by special, when normally pressing dash and attack at roughly the same time works smoothly
gloomy vine
yeah, doom does feel pretty janky. it is quite slow. even with duo boons
twilit stag
waxen furnace
it feels clunky
dense locust
It didn't get worse
twilit stag
demeter attack + aphro special on fists is best combo
gloomy vine
What happens if you get the duo boon that makes doom effects instant and also constant whislt weak? is that infinite damage?
gloomy vine
i.e. the ares/athena duo + ares/aphro duo
dense locust
merciful end ends doom
iron shale
like the msot i enjoyed doom
dense locust
so it negates the continuous damage to weak
iron shale
is with railgun and the stack damage on continous application
waxen furnace
I got explosive upper on fists, which looks great, but triggering dash-special is a bit annoying
dense locust
Merciful end, athena dash, and ares attack on the rail is fun
@waxen furnace Yeah it's awkward on the controller
waxen furnace
is it not awkward on PC?
waxen furnace
ah okay I understand
gloomy vine
Your Doom effects continuously strike Weak foes.
and
Your attacks that can Deflect immediately activate Doom effects.
So not infinite combo, but why does attacking enemy end the doom effect if they are weak?
thorny edge
its worse on kbm ii think
dense locust
its not terribly awkward, just takes some time getting used to and requires a little bit more effort than a dash attack
thorny edge
dash is space and special is q
dense locust
doom activates when it ends
waxen furnace
interesting that a dash-special doesn't trigger a chaos challenge that hurts you for using special
did not expect dash-special to be different in that way
gloomy vine
but it doesn't end if they are weak
dense locust
I bet thats new to the patch
thorny edge
that seems like an oversight
waxen furnace
yeah, it feels like dash-special should hurt you
dense locust
Merciful end ends makes the doom end as soon as you deflect, nullifying the other one
thorny edge
i think the fists is the only weapon with a dash special?
dense locust
at least it did in the winter patch
Its the only weapon with a hammer that uses dash special
gloomy vine
If that's true the wording needs to change
waxen furnace
it does make me worry, though - this chaos boon buffs special damage. will it not work on dash-special?
dense locust
the sword can use dash special
long sierra
Still not getting the prompt for arthur sword
long sierra
didn't think there were special conditions for that?'
analog lodge
The continous doom strikes scale down with each successive hit anyways, so even IF it worked how you thought it did it would have a finite result.
waxen furnace
I thought so, but this interaction makes me wonder if dash-special is implemented correctly
dense locust
It does seem like a bug tbh
thorny edge
do you have guan yu unlocked?
dense locust
The distinction between attack and dash-attack has always been a bit fuzzy for me
long sierra
yeah and i broke out with it
sacred idol
Dash special is weird.
thorny edge
you also need a certain amount of blood in sword aspects, i think 5?
sacred idol
It doesn't count as Special or Dash Attack?
Well, it applies special boon damage, right
But not special attack penalty... or dash attack bonus... makes me wonder if base special chaos works
gloomy vine
attack and dash attack are both attacks. They are both made better by increased attack damage. The same should apply to special and dash special. They are both special.
waxen furnace
...huh. so I have explosive upper (50% more special damage, in an area, for dash-special) and a chaos boon (50% increased special damage) on Talos Aspect.
When I use special, the second hit deals ~93ish damage.
When I dash-special, it's more like 85 damage.
I wonder what the base damage of each is.
thorny edge
guess its just up to rng then, sorry
dense locust
@waxen furnace according to the wiki dash uppercut base damage is 40, regular special is 2 hits for 30 damage each
dense locust
the numbers for damage are the sum total now, so is the second hit 93, or is the sum total of the 2 hits 93
yeah
although you'd think a special would do approximately 120
er nvm
gloomy vine
Yeah they are cumulative. It is funny seeing the fists chaining attacks together and getting numbers like 1500 😄
dense locust
i was confusing it with the dash special damage
waxen furnace
...wait, is the talos pull 20 in addition to the two hits for 30?
in which case it should be 20 + 45 + 45
dense locust
I really want to use rocket bomb cluster bomb eris rail with crit and see the numbers hit 6k+
waxen furnace
without the talos pull factoring in, the numbers add up correctly
with the special bonus applying to dash-special too
dense locust
yeah 45 per special
waxen furnace
dash-special not having the GET OVER HERE aspect is a bit of a shame though
yeah the math isn't making sense to me, then
sacred idol
Okay, so it's just busted on the chaos curse
dense locust
and then around 80 for 40 + 40
sacred idol
Weird numbers though
dense locust
can you dash special with the get over here aspect
waxen furnace
I mean, you physically can. it just doesn't getoverhere
I think
should have tested that first I guess. explosive upper is a bit less fun
40 base + 50% from explosive + 50% from chaos adds up correctly at least
naive tusk
OMG Has the wiki been updated?!
green sable
omg
waxen furnace
kinda whiffed that eurydice item choice there, I thought
eventually the 2sec will be great
analog lodge
Still not as efficient as base Infernal soul
waxen furnace
but... I need a cast <.<
hallow sorrel
Can it be leveled up?
waxen furnace
I prefer this over infernal soul efficiency in many cases though
the practicality wins out for me
I suspect it can't be leveled
hallow sorrel
Yeah, I like the auto regen, especially in Asphodel
dense locust
I had an ares cast build with the mittens and got an extra cast from chaos, and even at 3 second recharge, its soooooo good
Being able to stay completely defensive and not have to chase after you blood stones is amazing
a common caustic grasp from chaos gives 1 extra cast after 3 encounters where enemies spawn inferno bombs. What changes if you got an epic rarity?
waxen furnace
ahhhhh, rare crop selected my 2 main damage dealers that were at rare. makes up for the eury whiff
analog lodge
Using Ares(4 seconds to regain 3 casts) or Hera bow(5 seconds to regain 3 casts) as an example, even when your stygian soul cast has a 2 second cooldown it is still a whole 6 seconds to do 3 casts.
Basically, even with a Heroic tier boon, stygian soul is not as efficient as base infernal soul. And it doesn't have the burst either
dense locust
But you don't have to chase after your stones
waxen furnace
noone is disputing burst efficiency, doom
dense locust
it's apples and oranges
waxen furnace
the value is in convenience
it's a tradeoff
also in no time wasted picking things up
which is hard to factor in
dense locust
I've found the new cast to be far more flexible for my builds
and still remain useful
you can keep boiling blood or its new alt on several enemies
reliably
waxen furnace
both in opportunity cost (it's time spent not focusing on damage or dodging) and in time wasted before you can cast again
dense locust
ever have your casts sitting out in lava when fighting hydra?
Also i'm very curious: a common caustic grasp from chaos gives 1 extra cast after 3 encounters where enemies spawn inferno bombs. What changes if you got an epic rarity?
analog lodge
During a boss battle, the convenience doesn't matter, as they will drop right next to them. The extra time spent waiting to regain casts and burst issues prevent you from actually relying on it to finish enemies off. Most rooms get cleared in 3/4 stygian soul casts, so it is better to start out with the casts. Enemies drop the casts if you kill them. The list of downsides to stygian soul go on and on - where the only upside is you will not have to spend that half a second dashing in to collect shards.
dense locust
Well, all i can say is, after doing several runs with the new cast, I love it
waxen furnace
I'd strongly disagree with that first statement. you might spend most of your time sitting right on top of a boss, but I certainly don't
dense locust
Most of the time i'm looking for the safest place to be inbetween attacks
and if I have to put myself in a precarious position to get my casts back, i risk taking serious damage
And all of this is ignoring the fact you can stick more than 3 enemies with a blood stone to take advantage of boiling blood and its alt
waxen furnace
we clearly have different playstyles and give different weight to the tradeoff. and that's fine!
dense locust
yeah for sure
waxen furnace
the fact that there are people who like both options is great
wraith schooner
i feel that the recharge time is too big for it to be better than 3 casts imo
waxen furnace
means it's a pretty decent addition imo
wraith schooner
if it was maybe 2 sec instead of 3
dense locust
I'd recommend trying it out a number of times. The only reason i defend it is because I think it's a very fun new way of tweaking builds
i disagree
3 seconds almost seems like too fast
waxen furnace
2 seconds seems real strong imo
dense locust
at least in my experience
analog lodge
3 seconds is an eternity to me
dense locust
The heroic reduction maybe could take it down to 1.5
silver musk
is anyone else having trouble with fishing alert sound levels at all, not sure if i'm just making loud noises and missing it
dense locust
but the base line being 3 seems right
wraith schooner
i agree its quite fast on 2 second
but most times u cast 3 times
u kill the unit and pick up the cast again
on cast heavy builds i mean
dense locust
I have epic zeus cast, and got an extra cast from chaos right now with the mittens, and I can double cast, hit a couple times, dash to safety, and my casts are back
limber copper
@kind fiber I believe if you continuously dash and reset your auto attack, it keeps going up
waxen furnace
@wraith schooner I've liked it the most on non-cast-heavy builds
dense locust
Ive used it for my first 4 heats with the mittens (and some how got a strong ares cast build every time...) and it has been very strong
kind fiber
@limber copper What are you talking about?
dense locust
Probably demeter aspect
wraith schooner
i tried it 3-4 times so far i feel like it been some buff or some combo to be better
analog lodge
FYI it would need to be 1.33 seconds to compete with base infernal soul in sustained dps
So 2 seconds when you have a heroic boon is way too long.
wraith schooner
for example how 3 casts can be so nice with the bow
waxen furnace
bow is an example of a situation where I'd prefer 3 casts. along with poseidon sword
dense locust
Well its obviously not for every single build, nor should it be
wraith schooner
but thats my opinion its doesnt have to be correct
kind fiber
@limber copper Are you talking about the hammer boon that gives you +5 damage for every uninterrupted attack? That ones fine. Rolling knuckles is the one where you perform a dash attack with +60% power at the end of every attack sequence
limber copper
Oh I see that's concentrated knuckle
dense locust
otherwise it wouldn't be an alt, it would be a must
waxen furnace
it's nice in non-cast-heavy builds, is what we're saying
dense locust
I've actually found it really good for a hybrid cast build
limber copper
That one resets your autoattack
dense locust
Where you are throwing out casts for additonal damage or status application
inbetween attacks
limber copper
Because dash attack resets your autoattack timer, so it let's you hold down auto
kind fiber
Does it?
wraith schooner
im thinking with god boons in mind in most i feel that u need as many casts as u can get
limber copper
No, normally it's a 12345 pause, 12345 pause
waxen furnace
oh, are you talking about the dash attack at end of combo?
kind fiber
yeah
waxen furnace
it does take over that pause, I felt
which I quite liked
makes it more of a continuous barrage
limber copper
It was most noticeable dealing with rat swarm
kind fiber
Whats everyones opinion on aspect of demeter?
dense locust
It's the best one
wraith schooner
i rly love that
dense locust
but i am starting to come over to the other one, and I havent tried zag with the mittens yet
waxen furnace
it feels like the kind of thing that really needs bloods before it's really great
wraith schooner
aspect of demeter and the weapon upgrade that let u blink with R
waxen furnace
talos I've loved from the getgo
wraith schooner
its so good
analog lodge
I tend to manually input the dash attack, but getting the dash attack without dashing is pretty sweet, it is also real useful with the +5 per hit
My opinion on demeter aspect: ONE PUNCH!!!!!
wraith schooner
i played 1 game with artemis + athena with the aspect at lvl 3 only mind you
the dmg of it its so good and feels so great
waxen furnace
yep - had one run with dash attack at end + 5extra dmg per hit + arte attack for crits + aphro special with arte duo + higher attack% from chaos + higher atkspd from hermes
was wonderful seeing those 2k+ numbers
athena special? interesting
thought your main damage source in demaspect builds would have been special, not attack
analog lodge
Talos is also a pretty nice aspect, though I have not tried it, 40% to dps is really good.
I don't know which of the two, Talos or Demeter, end up being the higher dps when you account for boons - but they are both cool aspects
waxen furnace
ah I see, that makes more sense
wraith schooner
the crts was insane
waxen furnace
I'd expect dem to be higher DPS, as talos has a lot of utility
wraith schooner
insidently the run took like 22 minetes
and im one of this rly sluggish ppl
i was amazed
analog lodge
The only thing more insane than 2k punches are 2k javelins
wraith schooner
tbh i would love to play talos too
and i bet talos with athena + artemis works good too
with athena R this time tho to protect from all this mobs u pull
with the deflect
but i run out of bloods
so will have to w8
analog lodge
I wonder just how far crits can be pushed with the new mirror upgrades though.
waxen furnace
I realllllly don't like Quake Cutter
not only is it non-scaling fixed damage, but it's also easily cancellable by dashing after special
analog lodge
It DOESN'T SCALE!?
surreal abyss
just got a really good run on cast build with Fully loaded, Dual shot, and greater recall feelsgoodman
surreal abyss
feels like i'll never get them all together again
wraith schooner
it was one of the most fun experiences ever
surreal abyss
got 12:47 on heat 16
wraith schooner
yea its hard to get both the legendary and the duo boon
waxen furnace
let me test before I make that claim doom
wraith schooner
u gotta focus on one or the other most times
waxen furnace
but i don't think it scales, no
being able to pull enemies back into ice wine with Talos is so, so nice
turbid needle
Quick, before it gets nerfed: Deadly Flourish on Talos.
wraith schooner
work with pulling ppl on walls
turbid needle
Yes.
turbid needle
You can cause wall and corner damage with Talos's pull.
turbid needle
I've killed minor enemies across gaps with that before.
waxen furnace
arte special over arte attack on talos?
thought arte attack would synergize better with the attack buff
turbid needle
Could run both, but I think just spamming the blood out of Special is stronger.
I really like Long Knuckle, Concentrated Knuckle, and Deadly Strike on Zag Aspect.
More attacks, stacks super fast, and if you're aggressive enough with your dashes while still keeping the combo in time you can wipe bosses.
wraith schooner
i havent gotten the chance but i bet
surreal abyss
i tried the zeus attack with the fists, kinda fun, but kinda weak tho. maybe i didn't get the right boons
wraith schooner
demeter with zag aspect
rancid shore
is there a dodge chance cap?
wraith schooner
will be very good
there is that after 10 freeze attack enemy burst
i would love to try that with something
limber copper
No dodge chance cap but it is multiplicative
turbid needle
Not that I know of.
rancid shore
i feel like trying to build dodge on zag fist might be fun
wraith schooner
demeter + something
turbid needle
Zeus kinda needs Splitting Bolt.
frail bear
how do people feel about the new weapon? I enjoy the combat loop but is it just me or is the base damage a little on the weaker side? is there a combo I should be doing more of with them to maximize my damage output?
waxen furnace
not really sure what is scaling up the quake hammer on special. it's dealing about 110ish damage for me, despite having aphro special at lv2, and 100% in special-damage-increasing boons
turbid needle
If you can manage that his damage with Exagryph and Malphon are amazing.
waxen furnace
so I'm not sure it scales with special damage
analog lodge
Concentrated Knuckle + Rolling knuckle is just a recipe for a lot of damage, add in Zag or Talos aspect and I imagine it just gets crazy
This coming from when I got concentrated knuckle on Demeter, turned my downtime attack into almost as useful as my burst.
waxen furnace
glad I took it to get it off the fated list. do not intend to ever pick this quake again
explosive upper seems a lot less niche
rancid shore
quake is hot garbage
wraith schooner
i wish there was a keepsake
dense locust
i don't think quake not scaling is intentional
brazen verge
I just built up a bunch of damage resistance on Arthur w/ the base 20% in the aura, rank 2 myrmidon bracer, epic ravenous will, and epic level 2 bronze skin
wraith schooner
for making the first item u find being a dedalus hammer
turbid needle
Explosive Upper ain't bad.
analog lodge
Quake It doesn't even appear on or scale with demeter
wraith schooner
@brazen verge how much u reached ?
waxen furnace
I like explosive upper, just wish dash-special triggered talos
turbid needle
It should.
waxen furnace
also wish dash-special didn't rely on a clunkier input than dash-attack
dense locust
my favorites are the extended fist reach and the special kick
or the 1000% to armor
turbid needle
I just used it not an hour ago and I thought it worked.
wraith schooner
that 1000% to armor is awsome
rancid shore
the default binds for dash-spec on both kbm and controller aren't very intuitive
wraith schooner
specialy if u use the other thing that let u blink with special
brazen verge
in total I think that's 94% damage resist @wraith schooner
dense locust
it almost feels mandatory because you need to be able to stun them if you want to not get hit
hoary iris
1000% to armor is totally broken
wraith schooner
daym
turbid needle
1000% damage to armor saved me in the final boss fight against two Stygian Chariots.
wraith schooner
gotta try that too eventualy
waxen furnace
I stand corrected, it does actually work with dash-special. my bad schpoon
turbid needle
No big!
waxen furnace
then my gripe is reduced to "why is the input clunkier" grumble grumble
analog lodge
NO ARMOR ALLOWED!
turbid needle
Glad to hear it works together, Talos is gonna get the Nerf Bat™️ soon.
dense locust
Oh god, chariots at hades is a nightmare
turbid needle
It's just a slight delay, I think it's alright.
wraith schooner
is it just me that hates the archers on hades the most ?
turbid needle
Yeah, so I had Breaching Cross, Deadly Strike, and Heart Rend and crit them for 800 damage per dash.
I don't mind those archers too much in the boss fight, I just hate them when they show up in Erebus in Tartarus.
brazen verge
Tbh I hate the shield guys the most
dense locust
I switch between hating the archers, spearmen, or shield dudes the most constantly
wraith schooner
they are anoying too i guess
analog lodge
Really I think that Zag gloves are better off buffed than talos nerfed
wraith schooner
but u can bait them and slam from behind
turbid needle
Zag Aspect is fine.
dense locust
The spearmen with two levels of forced overtime hit me constantly
turbid needle
Talos's pull range is absolutely crazy.
wraith schooner
talos mechanic is just too good imo if u can spam ppl at the wall
turbid needle
Would be better if it were a group pull.
brazen verge
Oh yeah spears hurt so much
turbid needle
A shorter-ranged group pull.
waxen furnace
the delay in when the attack comes out I'm fine with. it's the fact that you can pretty much simultaneously press dash and attack to queue up a dash-attack, but can't do that with special
at least, I can't seem to do that
wraith schooner
insidently i get a lot of hits from thes spearmen too btw
turbid needle
No, that's correct, Marah.
frail bear
so, with regard to knuckles, what is the point of their special attack? i feel like doing my full series of attacks into a dash attack gives me higher damage output than using special
even with talos
wraith schooner
but i play very agressive
waxen furnace
side note - I love that you can pull the minotaur with Talos special. love love love
dense locust
The dash attack for the excalibur is similar, you cant just press the two buttons nearly simultaneously
turbid needle
Get Deadly Flourish and Swift Flourish.
I'm not certain, but I think Talos actually pushes EM Lernie away from you.
dense locust
at least i was having trouble with it
wraith schooner
@frail bear with out using talos or demeter aspect its eh indeed
but if u use those 2 of boi
frail bear
ah lmao
wraith schooner
stand next to walls and slam em xd
frail bear
that makes sense
turbid needle
Use a really high-power Special like Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Rush Kick and spam your Special.
You can grab enemies from extremely far away.
wraith schooner
also
even with zag aspect
u can use special with the dedalus upgrade
that let u fly to target
turbid needle
If you have a strong Cast you also get a boost to your Attack and Cast (but spamming Special usually does more damage).
turbid needle
Yeah, Rush Kick.
chrome geyser
excalibur seems not that bad if you spam dash-attacks.
waxen furnace
is that kick an option with Talos? have yet to see it
turbid needle
It's a little hard to control right now, but I like it a lot, too.
hoary iris
Rush kick + poseidon boon makes me feel like bruce lee
wraith schooner
tbh poseidon seem to work well with the gloves all around
dense locust
Rush kick is just flat out fun
chrome geyser
On attack too?
waxen furnace
I do want to try poseidon special on talos
wraith schooner
i did a poseidon + zeus run
dense locust
and its range is huge
wraith schooner
with poseidon main
waxen furnace
poseidon on attack seems like a bad time, though
chrome geyser
I haven't tried but knockback sounds bad on attack.
hoary iris
Yeah the range is insane, you can fly around with no problem at all
wraith schooner
it was quite nice
dense locust
I did poseidon attack with the zeus/poseidon duo
wraith schooner
each attack procing thunders
wraith schooner
worked nicely for me
chrome geyser
BTW with the update; the mittens feels so much snappier
dense locust
but I did have the maxed heat that makes enemies have random buffs
chrome geyser
I'm in love with it now.
dense locust
which makes enemies insane
chrome geyser
The cloners are a bit nightmare.
wraith schooner
i rly feel like that one is very anoying think to fight against
dense locust
Well they fixed the lag from demeter special
chrome geyser
- Twin Fists: improved input buffering after flurry attack; reduced hit pause on Cutter special and Dash-Special (note: this was added as part of a hotfix yesterday)
wraith schooner
im off for a run then hf guys
chrome geyser
There are a bunch of tiny changes in patch notes; check them out @waxen furnace
Also the new boon pillars were improved; but they still look very cartoony. Out of style.
autumn python
anyone know how dodge chance is calculated with multiple boons?
frail bear
apparently it's multiplicative
chrome geyser
it's multiplicative. So two 30% are 1 - (1 - .3) * (1 - .3) = 51%
I'm not sure if there is a hard cap
turbid needle
If it's multiplicative it's asymptotic.
analog lodge
@frail bear Talo's aspect special is mostly there as filler/utility to buff everything else, or to finish off smaller enemies.
Demeter aspect special is for the thrill of that 1K(or more) punch.
Zag aspect special is like Talo's aspect without the buff, only useful as utility, finisher or with specific boon/hammer upgrades.
chrome geyser
Damage reduction works the same way; but has a hard cap of .8
turbid needle
You'll push ever closer to 100% but never reach it.
autumn python
hmmm... so with boons of 15, 21, 25, and 45 i would come out at... 72%?
chrome geyser
So there might be evasion hard cap as well. I think @sacred folio would know better.
turbid needle
I've seen someone stand in front of Hades beam and take only a single hit.
civic barn
run ruthless dash and you get another 50%
analog lodge
"Come on dad, HIT ME!" "What do you think I am trying to do son!?"
civic barn
and get the feather
frail bear
is there an agreed upon "best aspect" for each weapon?
chrome geyser
Well; more like an extra 14%
turbid needle
Poseidon, Guan Yu, Chaos, no, no, no.
chrome geyser
Depends on your playstyle but i believe
civic barn
people think there are
civic barn
but i really think it depends on how you play, like silver aid
chrome geyser
Nemesis, Guan Yu, Chaos, Chiron, Demeter, Hestia
autumn python
Are there attacks you are not able to dodge?
civic barn
there are definitely ones that are kinda hard to play with
frail bear
is guan yu really the best one? i get really bored by it because it's so slow lol
chrome geyser
There are no undodgeable attacks
analog lodge
For some weapons, yes, like Guan Yu, others are more preference based
turbid needle
Aspect of Chaos is boring, too.
chrome geyser
other than poison ticks?
@frail bear ; try using guan yu special.
The special makes it powerful.
civic barn
i really disagree on guan yu being the best 🤷♂️ but hey people really like it
chrome geyser
My opinion on best is damage output in variety of cases.
turbid needle
Moon Cutter is still super strong and its Special is way better than the regular throw.
waxen furnace
I think both chaos and zeus are fun
chrome geyser
I like playing others as well.
frail bear
guan yu special is really good but it feels really really slow to me
civic barn
it feels contradictory that the special is the good part of the weapon when its selling point is the heal, which rubs me the wrong way, too
frail bear
like, the weapon as a whole
turbid needle
The spear in general isn't a super fast weapon.
chrome geyser
My personal fav are poseidon (haven't played arthur more than once yet), guan yu, zeus, no, talos, eris.
frail bear
i disagree, the aspect that lets you teleport to people is super super fun and lets you play pretty aggressively
chrome geyser
The heal is for healing in between easy rooms.
frail bear
especially if you get the upgrade that lets you flurry stab
civic barn
achilles?
frail bear
aggressive spear is super fun
chrome geyser
So you go to boss always with full health.
waxen furnace
@civic barn I wouldn't say the special is "the good part". both are great and work well together. it's part of why many love the weapon
chrome geyser
Guan yu > achilles > base > hades
In general; if you turn on overtime; spin attacks become very difficult to use without getting hit.
civic barn
but you have no timing for the spin if you play on high heat fast enemies
you literally have to upgrade for the spin twice to make it be worth it
chrome geyser
And usually you want to avoid getting hit; since you know. Death
civic barn
and at that point you're better off upgrading the special
the special is actually ridiculously large
chrome geyser
The special needs one boon from artemis do occasionally deal 500 damage.
analog lodge
Rail has Hestia(which is used in a lot of speed runs), but it also has Eris, which is THE aspect you use for poison/passive damage builds.
A lot of aspects can be made really good with the right boons, but some are underwhelming(the bad aspects are actually the exception, not the rule)
chrome geyser
And is aoe; and is piercing.
turbid needle
You only need the one upgrade, Quick Spin.
Massive Spin just makes Guan Yu Easy Mode.
chrome geyser
Eris is very flexible; the damage up is pretty nice for any build.
civic barn
maybe before they changed the pathing for it to not collide with the field
turbid needle
I think Eris might be stronger (+60% damage on crits, please), but a lot of people swear by Hestia.
I'd call them relatively equal.
chrome geyser
Achilles is very workable with regenerating casts; but you can't really use it for mobility. The delay before throw is too long to use it to reposition.
frail bear
i wish both guan yu and arthur weren't so slow to use, I really want an aspect that makes a weapon faster/more aggressive
i'm hoping for some sort of daggers over the fists or something lmao
waxen furnace
5th run. still no excal. wanna try out the new shiny 😦
chrome geyser
And you can't count on having your spear away; since you will generally want to be attacking.
turbid needle
I need to try Achilles with Stygian Soul.
civic barn
all that said, i think it's going to be hard to argue which is really the best when everyone's playing differently and with different pacts and at different heats. That's why it's always worht trying out everything for yourself
analog lodge
If you want fast/aggressive spear you should do achilles
chrome geyser
Achilles strat is use the rush; and then use the +150% cast/attack damage for the next two attacks/casts to deal good damage.
analog lodge
Zagras spear is safety strat, sit back, throw 1k javelins
turbid needle
Yeah, I've tried it before, but I kept ending up inside Asterius's spin attack, or on top of Hades's pots when I had 800% Heightened Security.
chrome geyser
@civic barn ; fun wise this is true. But PoP just makes some things harder (other than upgrading the third boss). So if something works on high heat; they will work on low heat. Not saying using achilles to reposition on 0 overtime is not viable (it's pushing it) but a build that works on hight heat by guarantee work on low heat too.
chrome geyser
I assume people are thinking "what is the most consistently winnable weapon" when talking about "best weapon".
frail bear
what's the best way to play bow/rail? i literally dont understand those weapons at all and i'd like to understand them better lol
civic barn
I mean, yes, that makes sense, but that's different from saying which is best right
chrome geyser
Also; i hate speedrunners; but people who do speedruns are a good demonstration on what weapons are more powerful in general.
frail bear
why do you hate speedrunners lmao
turbid needle
Do you have a Bombard in the air? If not, fire one. If so, fire your regular attack.
chrome geyser
And in general; chaos shield is the best weapon followed by guan yu in that regard.
turbid needle
Actually, the WRs are held by Stygius right now.
Poseidon has any%, Nemesis has 32 Heat.
waxen furnace
I would say though, that eris rail is hard to make great use of if you play on controller
civic barn
If I said I run nemesis on 20 heart better than Poseidon but my friend swears by it, that's not me or them being wrong
turbid needle
Agreed, Marah.
wicked hull
The Rail didn't really click for me until I sunk some blood into the Hestia aspect - that one really benefits from being upgraded to max
chrome geyser
Mostly because they tend to be "WHATS UP X NATION? TODAY WE ARE GONNA DO A WORLD RECORD, JUST DON'T FORGET TO SMASH THAT SUBCRIBE BUTTON"
turbid needle
Have you tried Rocket Bomb, @waxen furnace ?
wicked hull
that seems like more of a problem with Youtubers/streamers than speedrunners specifically 😛
waxen furnace
I have, and love it!
rancid shore
A lot of speedrunners aren't like that
waxen furnace
but in general I don't bank on getting a specific hammer upgrade
rancid shore
Most of them just sound so zoned out and focused on what they're doing to play it up like that
chrome geyser
And every single one goes like "WORLD RECORD GUYS". No. You don't know if it's a world record. etc.
waxen furnace
so I normally stick to hestia
frail bear
i watch a handful of speedrunners and not a single one is like that
waxen furnace
and sometimes have great rocket runs
analog lodge
@frail bear First, rebind your reload to an easy key and your codex to a harder key. The default reload of Right stick is a bad choice of key.
wicked hull
the main thing I dislike about speedruns is the ones where they use so many glitches/exploits that they're not even really playing the game
frail bear
im kb+m so it's not a huge concern lol
there's so many speedrun categories that not even every speedrun is like that
wicked hull
I know, I know
frail bear
like, any% no major glitches is a category in like every game
chrome geyser
We could take to offtopic lol.
turbid needle
The first 40 Heat clear I've ever seen (maybe one of few with 40 Heat period) was with Eris and Cluster Rockets.
Just walking up to Hades with Deadly Flourish and blowing him up.
wicked hull
Does the Eris effect stack with multiple special bombs?
chrome geyser
No; it's a non stacking buff
civic barn
? Eris effect is not a boon though
turbid needle
Point being it doesn't stack.
civic barn
Oh ok I thought they meant the bombs after getting the buff
Nevermind I see what they were asking
If 60% was stackable that would have been kinda ridiculous
tidal thorn
So I just used a reroll on boons and it gave me the exact same boons...
tidal thorn
k
waxen furnace
I just wanna try out excal. /cry
raw raven
So I think I found my new favorite synergy for the Fists.
Poseidon Special + Talos aspect magnetic cutter. The enemies get dragged toward you, even getting pulled into terrain and taking damage, then they get knocked away and ruptured. Rinse (heh) and repeat until dead
raw raven
It stun locks basically everything besides bosses
small gorge
chrome geyser
@small gorge twi an la
civic barn
You might be restricted by the boon options available altogether
Though that still doesn't sound like it should do that, either by design our not
waxen furnace
a number of people have pointed out rerolls leading to many of the same boon options
raw raven
It might just be rng
waxen furnace
even if it's balanced, it just does not feel good
tidal thorn
Yeah, if that is how Fated Persuasion works then I might never use it. lol
frail bear
is there a meaningful difference between a higher level boon and a boon of a higher rarity
normal sleet
I've only used it on Chaos, since his can all be terrible things like losing health for attacking
frail bear
does anything different happen
analog lodge
There are VERY few ways to increase boon rarity - but boon level can be gained via pons easily.
Also rarity is almost always a bigger upgrade than a level.
frail bear
i dunno, they just feel redundant to me?
like i wish higher rarities had additional effects or something
analog lodge
They add up real fast.
for example aphro special is 80% common, 104%to120% rare, 144%to160% epic and 184%to200%heroic.
this is before boon levels, which can push common rarity aphro to around 150%
boon levels and rarity matter
Especially with cast boons
If your question however was "should I switch this high level boon for a heroic", then my answer is "boon level carries over"
shut stream
Are we supposed to be able to dash into the traders workspace?
analog lodge
I don't think so
burnt rune
Does Ruthless dash/Fists Zag aspect/Hermes boons stack dodge chance?
fiery silo
Eris is only for attack...not special if I am correct?
burnt rune
It's very tricky to test orz
analog lodge
@burnt rune Yes, multiplicatively
burnt rune
Hmmm, I see
analog lodge
As in 1 - dodge chance is the multiplier
So it never quite reaches 100%dodge chance
Still, with all the defence buffs in this game I imagine you could get insanely tanky
burnt rune
Oh yeah, that makes sense, since it's 50% from Ruthless and 15% from Zag
Epic Hermes is 25% hmmmm
Not sure if I want to spend the Titan's Blood on this to test tho
analog lodge
You can farm Titan's blood and diamonds by golden touch+coin pouch at start then safe up for styx on your pact runs. It is easier this update than ever to get titans blood.
turbid needle
Aspect of Demeter + Hunter Dash + Deadly Flourish = 
burnt rune
It's what I've been doing but I got diamond three times in a row instead of blood 
analog lodge
@mild crag If it was we would have 100% dodge setups, and I do not think the devs would allow that
sacred idol
@raw raven What's a good combo for that Poseidon special, for attack?
Dionysus and aim for early exclusive access? Or does that not synergize with the talos damage buff
mild crag
there's no way to permanently get 100% dodge chance anyway
burnt rune
Will probably focus on Talos for now and keep that idea for the future
sacred idol
Also, what's the calculation on damage reduction, does anyone know
burnt rune
how would we have 100%
my best find is 95% and limited for a few seconds 0:
mild crag
damage reduction is multiplicative
turbid needle
Rare Hunter Dash with a naked Special and I believe 20% Family Favorite Aspect of Demeter just dropped 600 damage on Meg.
mild crag
there's no cap on damage reduction but since its multiplicative you can't reach 100%
burnt rune
Demeter aspect rules
mild crag
@burnt rune im sure its possible to get 100% briefly with ruthless, one other dodge source and hermes post call dodge
mild crag
but yeah its possible to get 100% dodge briefly but there are still things you cant dodge anyway
such as flamewheel explosions
for some ungodly reason
turbid needle
. . .
burnt rune
lol
turbid needle
Nerf 'em. Give 'em the 
raw raven
@sacred idol the special handles most enemies pretty well, so I'd say something to hurt bosses, like Zeus, Artemis, or Aphrodite. I personally enjoyed Zeus since that gave me Sea Storm. And Jolted
Also flamewheels are the absolute bane of melee weapons. I swear, no matter the timing, if I kill them they still blow up in my face
burnt rune
use traps or dashes
analog lodge
Lambent plume, you can get to around 30 with it. If additive, plume +hermes dodge rare + zag fists + hermes call buff rare =103%. If multiplicative, 70%
So the question is - if you stand in hades lazer with all that, can he hit you?
burnt rune
do not engage directly
turbid needle
Possibly, but he's probably missing more often than not.
civic barn
You can fairly reliably dodge flame wheel explosions now
turbid needle
Only way to safely kill Flamewheels with melee weapons is with Deflect, I've found.
burnt rune
Blade Rifts on dash do the job well
mild crag
I'm imagining you won't be able to get hurt since to my understanding it's additive
Also I'm not talking about avoiding the explosions I mean using dodge chance to dodge damage
analog lodge
I am hoping one of the devs actually answers this question
burnt rune
If only I was good enough to get any significant number on Plume lol
mild crag
They won't directly answer it I'm sure
turbid needle
Okay.
mild crag
I'm fairly certain you can't
turbid needle
Building up a Demeter charge and then just deleting half a room is very satisfying.
mild crag
I stood in a room full of flamewheels with 80% dodge chance and tanked them all
turbid needle
Malphon is scary good with Artemis, maybe the most direct synergy out of every weapon.
raw raven
Yeah, I want to get it with Support Fire
mild crag
Since I think I reported it as a bug at that time
civic barn
Support fire with malphon is decent, but it doesn't totally mitigate some of the cons of the weapon
burnt rune
My last successful run was a complete bust in boons until I got zeus on attack before the Hydra and Support Fire on the middle of Elysium
things melted
turbid needle
Hey, just got it from the Megagorgon (who I wanna see on 15+ Heat before I call "okay").
analog lodge
I wanna know how big your crits are with malphon
burnt rune
and that was before Artemis on special
turbid needle
Malphon is totally fine as far as I'm concerned. Obscenely mobile, good damage, Hammer options for more safe range.
And it's got style for days.
No other weapon has a Dash Special.
civic barn
It's super fun
burnt rune
just removing chunks of life from the bosses
raw raven
The Hammer options so far in my experience are so gd good.
civic barn
But it really runs into issue with large groups that don't cluster
burnt rune
only REALLY sucky hammer imo is the charge special
analog lodge
Someone needs to edit one punch man intro with malphon gloves and zag face
raw raven
Like, I'd put Rail at top because spread fire, but Fists is a close second
civic barn
The charge special is okay
burnt rune
stop trying to make charge hammers a thing
turbid needle
Oh man, if they fix Flying Cutter--! 
raw raven
Also gotta say, really liking the new spread fire with Artemis
turbid needle
No, it could work!
I need to try that, Kevin.
That's one of my top 3 Eris builds.
raw raven
Oh it's my personal fav overall rn
burnt rune
if they fix it so all the demeter hits... hit the entire way, then yeah
mild crag
new spread fire took my dio abuse away from me
turbid needle
So here's what you do: Make its charge time very short, reduce damage either by a smidge or not at all, and make the charge bar reflect its range properly.
Or make it act like World Smasher, with a smaller hit.
Excellent, Kossetsu, now you can join the cult of Zeus.
burnt rune
the range is not an issue IMO, dash special already has range for days
turbid needle
...I meant Flurry.
mild crag
oh
analog lodge
Spread fire witout dio abuse? what is the world coming to?
mild crag
well im already part of that group them
burnt rune
making the special slower for double damage when I could just be spamming Magnetic Pull or building a bunch of Hits with Demeter is just... not good
raw raven
The peak build is
Artemis attack, Aphrodite special, Mistral/drunken dash. And that's it. Anything else, like the duo boon, or crit bonuses is gravy
You special, dash into it, get Privileged status active, then rapid fire shotgun everyone
turbid needle
I bet Flurry Fire could make it work.
mild crag
i like fam fav 
raw raven
The fact that Magnetic Cutter works through cover is so nuts
turbid needle
I adore Family Favorite.
Takes longer to snowball but then it's permanent and universal.
raw raven
Yeah, it's so stupid
analog lodge
Actually Arte special +aphro attack is more efficiant than the other way round
turbid needle
You need the crit chance from Deadly Strike.
If you had Divine Dash, you could run Deadly Reversal with HB Strike and Deadly Flourish.
raw raven
I want to get the Poseidon slam boons with it
burnt rune
It's also great if you activate Magnetic in an enemy that is attacking, so they are pulled mid attack, but then you dash cancel out of it and they just go flying
then just turn around and keep doing whatever you want
mild crag
fam fav would be more effective against most stuff since you dont have to wait for your special to fall i'd think
analog lodge
(I have to try this now)
mild crag
also you'd get the damage bonus on that too
raw raven
Also I'm not sure if it's missing something, but if you magnetic cutter something into projectiles, do they just go away?
raw raven
Like spreaders/witches just lost waves of orbs
chrome geyser
i assume in you have the range hammer it's ok
raw raven
On attack absolutely
burnt rune
I don't think so? Unsure
gloomy gull
does Poseidon dash interrupt and knock back if you dash cancel out of a Talos pull?
gloomy gull
thats basically all I want to happen
raw raven
But on the special, it's nutso
burnt rune
put them into a wall and do a billion damage, silverblue
analog lodge
My best ever build was Hunting blades + 3 extra casts + a bunch of other things. Hades lasted about as long as you would expect.
gloomy gull
yeah I wouldn't take pos attack on fists, thats bad news bears
burnt rune
I didn't get Poseidon dash during any Talos runs 🤔
gloomy gull
me either War
chrome geyser
I had sea storm too; but i hate the new boon rarity. Even with the old upgrades; it feels ilke i'm constantly getting regular rarity boons
gloomy gull
it made me very mad
burnt rune
I don't think the knockback affects enemies in the middle of physical attacks? really not sure lol
raw raven
Hunting blades builds are fun, but the require flurry cast imo. Otherwise it feels clunky
chrome geyser
My issue was i lost too much health; and lost a few DD's
burnt rune
something to test
turbid needle
Man, I play with Olympian Legacy.
gloomy gull
I even made a /bad/ fist build with knockback special, aoe on landing special hammer, and life-leech special
turbid needle
Straight Commons are rough.
gloomy gull
the interactions there were sooo bad
chrome geyser
trying to wall punch is not very precise. It doesn't do much damage until you get the poseidon wall smash boon.
turbid needle
woulda been fine if you had just skipped Poseidon
chrome geyser
I was trying to get either zeus or poseidon legendery; but ugh
chrome geyser
I wanted talos special poseidon; but things did not work that way.
gloomy gull
yeah it was a busted flush of a run, but it was hilarious to see
analog lodge
Olympion legacy almost never gives the legendary, it is really annoying
gloomy gull
pull, knockback, dies to dot, doesn't take AOE from landing, don't gain life
chrome geyser
Also; after doing their quests; both nyx and orpheus vanished. Do they ever come back?
burnt rune
Legacy is baaaaad
chrome geyser
Cause duos and legends are rarer. But still not rare enough to remove the rarity increase.
Yarn isn't always available though. It's inconsistent to get.
chrome geyser
The thing is; unless they changed it; increasing rarity (mini-boss or expensive boon slot) also reduces the legendary/duo-boon chance.
burnt rune
I can't complain though, Legacy gave me Chaos' legendary after a thousand years
chrome geyser
So you gotta plan things out.
turbid needle
Well, until I stop being able to clear high heat with my weapons I'm gonna stick with my mirror set-up.
analog lodge
After they fix the boon reroll to actually give different boons, then legacy may have value, but currently it does next to nothing
turbid needle
That's Fated Persuasion.
gloomy gull
I guess I poisoned my runs by going chaos keepsake to get enough shadow fastl; but I feel starved with the duo/leg and +chance for pom/hammer/boon versions compared to the old
burnt rune
speaking of Chaos, got a boon with +300% darkness or something
the new heal through darkness mirror upgrade was giving me full heals out of almost anything lol
turbid needle
Dark Regeneration can be sick.
gloomy gull
I know they don't directly impact boon room chance, just rarity, but hitting a few commons instead of rare/epic while doing chaos gates is noticeable
burnt rune
either that or Demeter boon that improves heals 👌
I am keeping dark regen for the foreseeable future
gloomy gull
yeah, my 'best' shadow run had some 200-300 chaos boon, the weapon bonus, and then poseidon for more fun and it was stupid
finished up and got 2 ranks of fated
I really like dark regen, its swingy but so is the game, and you can influence things to get more healing when you need to
sullen valley
Note: Apparently chilling Theseus when he's summoning a god...slows the god summon and eliminates his animation...? or something?
chrome geyser
OK just got the reverse; got a +120% chaos flourish; +170% poseidon flourish, and epic zeus attack. On talos. Fun ensues.
west siren
Oh dip. Brutality.
chrome geyser
OH GOD YANK AND YEET
Its . . . beautiful
Also psa; early long range casts helps you get erebus gates early in the run.
turbid needle
Imagine Flamewheels on a Stygius spawn.
analog lodge
Dark regeneration vs cthonic vitality is a matter of "darkness farming run" vs "gold farming to get diamond/titan blood run"
as a gold farming run involves gems instead of darkness
turbid needle
To whoever asked me earlier, getting between 300 and 400 damage crits right now on my Special.
So best case scenario, 1500+ damage burst on Aspect of Demeter.
chrome geyser
I have zeus cast; so i'll be fine.
@analog lodge i think cthonic vitality shines in the late game. There are so many tiny rooms. And no darkness to be had (unless bouldy).
gloomy gull
that is a beautfiul run @chrome geyser make sure to ss the final stat scrren
chrome geyser
Usually the darkness heal from already defeated bosses offshoot anyway.
turbid needle
Yeah, this is actually pretty nuts with Flying Cutter.
Kinda wish I had snagged Explosive Upper instead, though.
analog lodge
Fair point, in styx cthonic vitality is like 30 extra hp
chrome geyser
I will; but i am pretty bad at the mittens. I am powerful now but can lose if i don't get athena dash.
burnt rune
oooh dang
rancid shore
isn't jolted better there?
chrome geyser
no
gloomy gull
I think so as long as lightning is happening reliably
chrome geyser
jolted on all enemies already since rapid attack zeus
turbid needle
chrome geyser
Splitting bolt is insane here
chrome geyser
I assume its the mitts
gloomy gull
yeah
analog lodge
Splitting bolt, it is an extra 200 per combo
gloomy gull
just needed to know what was causing it
chrome geyser
Cold fusion is only useful agains rapid attacking enemies; or your jolted comes from infrequent source
rancid shore
oh it's with the gloves
turbid needle
240, really, there's a 6th hit.
rancid shore
you shouldn't dodge the swear filter like that
gloomy gull
ok
chrome geyser
HOLY
gloomy gull
noted
analog lodge
Ora Ora hades with lightning!
chrome geyser
Guys; this yank and yeet is fun
burnt rune
cold fusion is also great for privileged status :v
rancid shore
yank and yeet = YAY
turbid needle
I run Family Favorite.
chrome geyser
I'm like keeping enemies in lava like how , ugh whats his name
turbid needle
But agreed!
chrome geyser
OI JOSUKE GUY
turbid needle
Dio?
chrome geyser
Kept punching josuke back and forth
burnt rune
but yeah, yank gloves might be my favorite thing in this game
chrome geyser
No; ZA HANDO guy
burnt rune
this patch was made for me
chrome geyser
Okuyasu
I'm calling this build okuyasu.
Cause you pull them; then kick them away
gloomy gull
I love Talos
gloomy gull
when I read the patch notes I was thinking it was like an AOE blackhole effect
chrome geyser
The okuyasu or Yank'nYeet build.
gloomy gull
but this is so much beter
like the special would leave a yanking zone of effect like the Ares boon
chrome geyser
Sometimes; when you can't pull all the way the attack will be centered on the enemy
That's pretty powerful too
turbid needle
I wish it had shorter range but was a cone AoE pull.
chrome geyser
I noticed when i took zeus on special that lightning would hit very far away
sullen valley
I completed the worst run of my life and I wanna cry, but not because of anything having to do with the Pact of Punishment
chrome geyser
ITS LIKE PLAYING YOYO WITH ENEMIES. Seriously
This is amazing fun
Sorry i'll stop now
turbid needle
Daaang, well done.
sullen valley
thIS is the worst.
look at all of this "synergy"
ugh, I'm not gonna lie...I'm pretty sure Bouldy helped me with the 6% damage reduction but I just
rancid shore
hey at least priv status maybe
sullen valley
I feel like I could've gotten more satisfaction out of losing that run instead of getting the bounty it's so jank
unkempt pagoda
interesting how excalibur in the trailer mentions hallowed ground in the base description
gloomy gull
whatcu mean?
unkempt pagoda
was the +50 hp a late addition or were those effects’ descriptions just switched
obtuse steeple
it's on the special right?
unkempt pagoda
in game, arthur aspect says you have +50 health, but the nighty night trailer has “Your special creates Hallowed Ground” in place of the +50 hp
sullen valley
I want
to die
unkempt pagoda
so i’m wondering if the extra hp was intended from the start or added in later
gloomy gull
@sullen valley plz don't die it's ok
livid dew
how do you get the sisyphus dialogue for him to be free to appear and the king arthur sword dialogue to appear. ive beat the game multiple times and have every weapon including aspects and maxed out everybody on nectar. its just not appearing for me no matter how many times i beat the game
obtuse steeple
have I not been giving Bouldy the love he deserves?
gloomy gull
zag is immortal, you are not
gloomy gull
no I see it
sullen valley
It's so bad
sullen valley
I literally got out of that fight with hades with both of my legs broken, my knuckles sore,
II haven't paid off my student loan debt, it was that bad
gloomy gull
hey, pay mine off when your done
sullen valley
I can't man
My death defiances are all borked-
I J I forgot I squandered more than half of my accorn
gloomy gull
but at least now the game owes you a god run so just enjoy that
sullen valley
by getting hit by the same projectile twice
no
three times
fffffDark and Bloodness
I refused to mortgage everything I owned for the jankest videogame run ever
I had NO specified range, lmfao
gloomy gull
did you or did you not beat the run?
sullen valley
Ye, but like
sullen valley
charon noises
gloomy gull
||mmmrrr? mmmurrdrrr?????||
sullen valley
hhhhI'm going to go into the ER while I recover for now
turbid needle
Sometimes, when the screen is getting a little busy, the "Special Charged" text for Demeter doesn't flash up onto the screen, and it can be a little hard to tell if Zagreus has the boost with all of the effects that sometimes come onto the screen.
rotund wagon
according to the archive it took me more than 50 runs to get my first escape
sullen valley
Oh, @obtuse steeple When you give Bouldy a tribute of Nectar, he gives you random minor % boosts.
astral locust
how do i give ambrosia to someone?
sullen valley
I'm assuming he's mostly given you +6% Gold. On the wiki, he actually has a select few effects. The first time you give him ambrosia, he doesn't give you anything.
turbid needle
you have to rank up the associated characters first ||sisyphus, skelly, megaera, dusa, thanatos|| and do some associated quests then you can give ambrosia
sullen valley
You offer them as much Nectar beforehand. ||Dusa is the only character who Zagreus decides to give more than one Ambrosia bottles, so uh, stock up for her||
If you don't want to look at the spoilers, or for those just skimming, I'll give you a hint or two:
astral locust
im just watching the spoilers still dont get it,i have to use the item of those characters?
sullen valley
You can't just give anyone Ambrosia, the select few aren't Olympians and pretty close to home, more or less
chrome geyser
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019997435 and https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2019997449
sullen valley
@astral locust If you open your Codex and look up your target recipients, you can see a meter of hearts above their descriptions.
limpid tapir
Spoilers within. I'm not done; still collecting text.
Like Than who never shows up.
sullen valley
Max out those hearts (usually takes roughly several bottles) until a lock appears on their meter.
chrome geyser
This was the most fun I ever had. Seriously.
sullen valley
They may have a favor to ask of you, and only after then would you be able to give them Ambrosia.
sullen valley
It's gonna be a bit of a process. Not only do you need the required Nectar + Ambrosia, but you also can't give someone more than one gift per Underworld Run.
astral locust
so i just need to give a lot of nectar to this characters to get a quest and then i will be able to give them ambrosia
sullen valley
And your target recipient may not be there 100% of the time.
chrome geyser
The boons from chaos; along with family favourite allowed me to deal 400 damage per special.
sullen valley
Yeah p much.
astral locust
oh
astral locust
so im wasting all my nectar in artemis for nothing 
i have 15
ambrosia so that is not a problem
thanks then i will collect the nectar for this people
dapper pilot
@limpid tapir bless you
limpid tapir
Glad to assist where I can 😄
chrome geyser
Soon you will be swimming in nectar; it accumulates after a while.
turbid needle
So, Explosive Upper with Demeter definitely blasts five times.
sullen valley
Pft
sacred idol
@chrome geyser What did you add to Poseidon special to round out four or five gods
And did Hermes count as 30%
sullen valley
Nono, keep giving stuff to best god Artemis, she tooootally has something to give you. Honestly. Definitely not lying. Promise!
||🤞 ||
astral locust
chrome geyser
Zeus; for attack damage. Athena for dash. Demeter; because initially i wanted cold fusion if possible but did not get any demeter slots.
hermes counts.
turbid needle
I got the Barge. 
chrome geyser
I mean should; i have no idea if he counts for real.
But i did not force any of the gods; it sorta happened this run.
sullen valley
Honestly I love the Barge of Death over the heads
chrome geyser
@turbid needle really?
turbid needle
Oh, wait, I don't have MM on this run.
chrome geyser
That will be fun
sacred idol
Dang.
chrome geyser
Barge >>> MM megagorgon.
urban tree
Has anyone else noticed occasionally rerolling boons will give the exact same random boons? I just got saw an instance with Hermes and i thought it odd
chrome geyser
MM megagorgon is like lose a death defiance herep
sacred idol
I legitimately hope hermes counts
turbid needle
Hang on, turning my stream back on.
sacred idol
Ah yes, the memegorgon
chrome geyser
It's less the teleporty boigirl; but more THE NUTCRACKER OF DOOM
sullen valley
lol
tidal thorn
@urban tree I put that same thing in feedback.
urban tree
@tidal thorn I skimmed it and missed it. Thanks!
sacred idol
Big thwomp
sullen valley
I just encountered the power couple with Middle Management on
I'm only on Heat 4 and I'm almost down two Death Defiances
lime estuary
turbid needle
And I die to Hades like a chump. 
lime estuary
My first 32 Heat win 
turbid needle
Well done!
lime estuary
Did the screenshot embed in Discord or not? I can’t tell
sacred idol
no
lime estuary
Ty
fixed
I got bailed out by Patroclus so hard
I hate how wide the radius on the Hydra's slam attack is
turbid needle
It's pretty tough to avoid, yeah.
lime estuary
Especially on EM
It'd be nice if it at least had some fallout as the shockwave radiated out, so just barely not making it out of its range wouldn't slam you as hard
sacred idol
can we please add the frickin' falloff to all those massive aoe attacks from enemies
like, you know
asterius murder spin and hades murder spin
spins that take half the room, stomps that take half the room, all kind of suck
lime estuary
I'ma post that in feedback rn
green sable
i dunno the fists is meh
im going to make it work for me personally
if it kills Zag
turbid needle
Are you standing behind him right after he's done a leap?
sullen valley
Nope
I'm standing behind him
as he's beginning his combo
Backstabbing him square in the back
sacred idol
There's another big brain thing where his WHITE attack, with the normal non energized trails, has a bigger hitbox than the fx
The pink swings seem to have matched FX, but the white trail does not
sullen valley
So like, swing your right arm once starting from the left to the right
As you might notice, if you've swung hard enough, your arm reaches behind you, but just barely. Like maybe to the point of your spine or the center of your back
Now imagine that you're Asterius and that arm is your axe and you just hit Zagreus thinking he's perfectly safe behind your back.
turbid needle
Okay, now that sounds like an attack designed to dissuade a common attacking route.
If Asterius is about to start swinging, I get away.
sullen valley
I usually get behind him, since that's supposed to be where you're most safe. After his second swing I dash away.
I'm assuming he's like...turning toward me or something when he's beginning his combo.
sacred idol
is this the one that has 0 windup
sullen valley
I notice that variation sometimes but I don't keep track of it really
I just see if he's ready to swing once/twice or whatever
That just seems to me a minute detail. Whatsit telegraph?
mild crag
one has a telegraph where he just prepares to swing his axe
and one has no telegraph other than he stands still for a few moments
turbid needle
Yeah, that's a weird continuation after a leap in the middle of his five-hit combo.
granite bramble
so what exactly needs to be completed for nyx to give you the arthur sword availability
?
scarlet kindle
zag fists are really nice
the dodge chance alone would be a good passive bonus but extra attack speed just makes it even better
turbid needle
Concentrated/Long Knuckle and Deadly Strike (or Rolling/Long and Lightning Strike) is just filthy.
sullen valley
Dude Deadly Strike + Fists overall is the way to go
Gauntlets down
also I've been wanting to upgrade Demeter's Aspect to see how much damage potential it can have
sullen valley
pft- That's a good clip title
turbid needle
This is with Explosive Upper and Hunter Dash.