but if you accidentally damage them
#h1-builds-and-combat
dense locust
sacred idol
But it can be really good
frail bear
ah
sacred idol
Now, at least
sacred idol
I'm not sure, actually
rancid shore
I feel like hermes should
sacred idol
If he does, then the baseline is 30%, not 24%
rancid shore
he's an olympian, right?
sacred idol
Can someone test it next time?
dense locust
but he's in the same category as the daedalus hammers
sacred idol
Fair
strange wing
it specifies olympians so hermes should count
sacred idol
But Hermes should.
Someone please test
And if it doesn't, please feedback it
30% passive bonus is really good.
waxen furnace
rancid shore
Did they fix the chaos damaging you twice thing?
waxen furnace
I... really don't know what to highlight here
dense locust
i think so
waxen furnace
talos synergized with so much here
dense locust
I don't remember feeling completely destroyed last guan yu run and I had several chaos boons
waxen furnace
it's 0 heat, everything works at 0 heat, yadda yadda
sacred idol
The best option for hunting blades reliability, less so for minmaxing, but it would then be far less unreliable to get 2 statuses on top of artemis+ares
waxen furnace
but still
strange wing
talos fists are the new best weapon in the game for me
sacred idol
Hmm. I think if the cast regen were 2 seconds, or if bloodstones lasted longer when using the new cast
frail bear
quick question, does anyone have any tips for fighting theseus? i can take care of the minotaur really easily but the openings in theseus's patterns are hard to find and i just feel like i'm punching him just to do nothing
sacred idol
It would be way better
frail bear
i almost always lose a life on him
waxen furnace
hunting blades + being able to pull enemies into ares cast and buff its damage + a ton of attack buffing things + massssssive crits on attacks while enemies are also getting hit by blades... this run was ridiculously fun
dense locust
check it: https://imgur.com/YDc26um
sacred idol
Also maybe some tweaks to make Hera and Poseidon interact differently
strange wing
bait him into doing the spear throw
finite tulip
Is skelly not spawning until you equip another weapon intentional?
strange wing
most of the time after an attack he just walks around for a bit doing nothing
prime time to get behind him and get him
finite tulip
He used to spawn right when I entered the courtyard
smoky oasis
Hera should give u 3 casts
thorny edge
after theseus spear throw he walks away from you, you can hit him inn the back
after theseus spin attack he'll stand still, you can get behind him
at half health he does the olympian attack, he'll be wide open for your own full gaige Olympian Aid
rancid shore
biggest theseus tip: just extreme measures; he's much easier there :^)
dense locust
so hera with the new cast is just terrible?
velvet thicket
well until you turn on forced overtime and asterius becomes a cruise missile
dense locust
the alt cast
rancid shore
That's my secret, crab. I always have forced overtime on
sacred idol
Actually. What if they did do that? Hera and Poseidon having new interactions with new cast.
dense locust
yeah get used to 2 levels of FO
thorny edge
i think alt cast is better for not cast centric builds tbh
waxen furnace
yeah, I like that not all choices are best for all builds
sacred idol
I think making it 2 seconds would be fine.
Or just buffing the hermes boon that improves it
strange wing
i really like most of the alternate mirror choices
except the one where you gain money after a region
velvet thicket
i think they did a pretty good job with the alts
sacred idol
Even at 2 seconds, it would be inferior to 3 casts for cast focused builds, btw
thorny edge
that one should give you a far better payout than what you get currently
sacred idol
It would just make it more flexible
dense locust
Okay so you do need to win/die with the sword at least once before the aspect shows up
rancid shore
1/2 < 3/5
math checks out probably
sacred idol
I've found that the new gold thing is absurdly good?
strange wing
it feels bad not being able to get a run off the ground without the extra gold to buy something
but maybe I just don't know how to use it yet
dense locust
the alt isn't for castcentric builds
sacred idol
@rancid shore what's that referring to
rancid shore
3 cast being better than 1 regen at 2 seconds
dense locust
It's to make the cast not useless when you're doing a different build
velvet thicket
the gold alt is for people who use gold pretty sparingly, if you're always low it's not gonn abe worth
rancid shore
i'm thinking in hera
sacred idol
@dense locust yeah, but you can't always control your build so getting railroaded into cast builds saddles you with a negative
waxen furnace
I really like the gold alt, but had to switch it back as it caused me to hoard too much
dense locust
I just did an ares cast build with the mittens with the alt cast and it worked out wonderfully
sacred idol
I'm saying, make it less punishing to cast builds, while remaining suboptimal for them and better for support casting.
dense locust
well it was a hybrid
gray lintel
i both love and hate the new boon icons
they're cool tho they just feel different lol
sacred idol
2sec would be more of a direct sidegrade
waxen furnace
would be nice to see it buffed, I don't disagree, but I haven't yet felt that it's necessary. it's a compelling choice w/o any buffs
strange wing
the recharging bloodstones feels nice when I'm on a build that doesn't use casts for the damage
and rather for the debuff on enemies
waxen furnace
if anything, I kinda like the longer timer in non-cast builds as it lets ravenous will be more of a damage buff
dense locust
I love the addition of the voice lines from Hades crapping on all the shades
wicked hull
"DENIED"
dense locust
The alt cast allows boiling blood to be up consistently on an enemy
or the awesome alt to boiling blood
try it with demeter
waxen furnace
I think this is what I'll be sticking with as a "default" from now on. I'm most torn on God's Chosen
dense locust
Im torn on ruthless reflex
kind cloud
oh my...is it just me or did someone else think "infinity gauntlet" when they saw the new weapon?
velvet thicket
ruthless reflex seems the best by far
dense locust
It's awesome if you can get at least one more dash from hermes
waxen furnace
yeah the dash is another one. I think if I get used to not having two dashes, I'll be happier with Ruthless
dense locust
but dashing is my main form of dodging
waxen furnace
the damage buff is sizeable
boreal prism
Aspect of thanos
strange wing
Fiery Presence seems weird to me because it only works for a single hit on bosses
like that's the only thing holding me back from wanting to try it out
velvet thicket
fiery presence seems straight up bad on everything besides hestia
thorny edge
ruthless reflex during the final bosss ouch
gray lintel
also i love the darkness gives health thing
dense locust
@strange wing true, but if your build doesn't really use backstab, it helps on the journey to the boss
waxen furnace
but I had that there because I wanted to try it w/hestia
sacred idol
Dark Regeneration is just straight up better before styx
kind cloud
hmm...i'm not getting the new mirror of the night. strange
dense locust
Wow this update is really putting a drain on my blood bank
waxen furnace
yeah, some of the harder enemy rooms were quite a bit smoother with fiery
sacred idol
Fiery presence is cool, needs buff. Ruthless reflex is super strong even for me at 20% FO, and I cannot time dodges worth a damn.
Abyssal blood is actually pretty good
High Confidence isn't fantastic
strange wing
ruthless reflex actually works when you deflect a projectile with athena's dodge
pretty cool
velvet thicket
ruthless is also super generous. like if you just dash anywhere near a projectile it gives it to you
kind cloud
just ignore me...i'm a grade f dummy
waxen furnace
I have poseidon maxed, have every aspect unlocked. do I just need to win/lose more runs til I get to the right conversation starter on Nyx?
sacred idol
@waxen furnace I am feeling the tough choice of God's Chosen myself
velvet thicket
you just have to wait for nyx
strange wing
what's everyone's thoughts on Family Favorite vs Privileged Status
sacred idol
@velvet thicket ikaruga mode
strange wing
because I like family favorite a lot more
but privileged still does more damage so it's rough
waxen furnace
@sacred idol right?! I haven't done enough runs yet, but I think I'm really liking the better room selection
@strange wing I like FF a lot more too!
@velvet thicket alright thanks. guess with the next update so far away, I'm not really in a rush to try out excal
been avoiding spoiling its moveset so far, eager to find out just by playing w it
full flame
wow, just had first win with fists, with the right boons they're pretty strong and fun
sacred idol
I like the better rooms, but I do not like the nerf to rarity
Commons feel so bad
I like priv stat myself, but FF is good
Seriously, does anyone know if hermes counts though
dense locust
@waxen furnace are you talking about unlocking the aspect?
dense locust
You have to die or complete one run with sword i believe
sacred idol
I suggested something people might be more generally on board with, btw
velvet thicket
lots of minmaxing to consider with ff vs privileged status but everyone overlooks the important thing: privileged status makes sound effects that my monkey brain likes
sacred idol
"Make hera and poseidon buff Stygian casts differently"
What I want to see is something like
Poseidon special reduces cast regen delay by x seconds
waxen furnace
hehehehe monkey brain sounds. I like that
sacred idol
So -2 seconds on strike, for instance.
waxen furnace
also I saw a gold urn in the final boss room. has anyone spotted that before?
strange wing
i wouldn't be opposed to that change but it feels like the devs just want you to use the regular bloodstone option for those weapons
velvet thicket
@waxen furnace i've gotten that every run today!
dense locust
yeah and i can't help myself from making it my priority to destroy it
velvet thicket
shiny
sacred idol
@strange wing doesn't seem like healthy design to have directly conflicting aspects...
I would prefer a distinctly different but viable playstyle
Burst vs Sustained DPS
That's a meaningful choice
velvet thicket
idk why you're so hung up on this, the point is that you pick different mirror upgrades for different builds
sacred idol
Like if Poseidon let you recharge stygian soul, you could go nuts with a non Exit Wounds boiling blood buuld
"hung up" lmao
What, I can't talk about something?
waxen furnace
what do you mean by "unhealthy"?
sacred idol
Just for you, I'm tempted to talk about nothing else for two hours, because you're kicking up a fuss over it @velvet thicket
velvet thicket
ok
waxen furnace
I like the tradeoff. seems like a meaningful choice to me
sullen valley
Say does dealing damage to Distant Foes also work with being away from your Zeus Shield?
sacred idol
@waxen furnace just the fact that counter synergy exists, rather than changing how you play the aspect it makes you run back to the mirror instead
faint sonnet
These knuckles were a mistake. Sea storm is SO STUPID on them https://streamable.com/8mvtl
sacred idol
Why not have more variations on the playstyle instead of going back to the old?
strange wing
it doesn't feel unhealthy either, since you can just see Hera and Poseidon builds as burst dps builds, and the default bloodstone option is all for that
sacred idol
I'd like a different way to play Poseidon besides spamming Exit Wounds.
That's all it is in concept
waxen furnace
"I'd like a different way to play Poseidon besides spamming Exit Wounds." this is fine but in my opinion tangential
sacred idol
I prefer having new approaches that make the aspects themselves more flexible
Besides
They have this concept with Stubborn Defiance.
SD doesn't make Kiss of Styx irrelevant, remember?
Because it changes how Kiss works
I think based on that, their intent is not to make things incompatible with existing mechanics.
waxen furnace
stubborn defiance is the same imo, though. It is an insanely risky choice with, say, Guan Yu. In some niche cases I could like it, but it has strong anti-synergy with an aspect. but I think that's entirely fine
sacred idol
So, small tweak to make them compatible, but not necessarily the same...
Ehhh
I mean, it can actually also save you with GY
The only one I think is actual suicide on GY is High Confidence.
waxen furnace
normal rooms are where you can typically heal plenty
sacred idol
That one is a double hit to your health
frail bear
what determines which room in styx has the stuff to let you get past cerberus?
waxen furnace
that too - those are terrible choices in a Guan Yu build, but that doesn't make them a bad alternative overall
sacred idol
I remember my first run with GY where I accidentally turned on budget cuts and had no Thick Skin. Oof.
@frail bear rng
frail bear
oof
sacred idol
Nothing else
sacred idol
It isn't
sacred idol
Probably, yes
frail bear
i dont wanna fight cerberus tho he is baby :(
strange wing
yeah people have been giving the devs a lot of feedback about the styx rooms
frail bear
but like, something there would be good lol
velvet thicket
if beating up your dog was a speed strat i stg
sacred idol
@waxen furnace mechanically still viable though...
frail bear
LMAO
velvet thicket
that would be horrible
sacred idol
Eh, I'm mostly fine with how it works now
waxen furnace
and hera bow is mechanically still viable with regen casting
frail bear
i mean, it doesnt need to be cerb, just an optional boss fight that lets you skip the sewer rooms in styx
sacred idol
But as you say, I wouldn't mind a buff
It's not needed but welcome
And just more in line with other design choices like SD
waxen furnace
you can argue it's worse, but it's a meaningfully different playstyle. means less burst but more sustained-from-afar damage. arguably more fitting for a bow
sacred idol
It's mostly that the passive gets negated
So giving it a specific passive for Stygian would make that a perfect alternative
sacred idol
That's exactly what I want it to be. A better sustain, less burst option
Not really a lot outside of code? Passive is passive
waxen furnace
not in implementation, but in understanding
chrome geyser
HOLY! Fully loadod; crystal beam; crystal tracking boon. First of all; the fully loaded works with stygian blood (you have 4 regenerating casts). Second; i have become reverse hades; just popping laser turrets around the arena targetting dad. It felt sooo 
waxen furnace
"this would be too confusing for learning players" is reason enough imo
chrome geyser
I'm glad i get to play with stygian blood before they nerf it.
sacred idol
Hera is kind of confusing for new players already.
waxen furnace
a great reason to not make it more confusing
sacred idol
Tbf fully loaded and chaos cast on it is nuts
That does get kinda silly
But it won't be more confusing if the thing auto switches
As far as I'm concerned, it would be more confusing to see "Hey, if my cast can't drop, why does my weapon make casts drop faster"
strange wing
i still can't get over how fun the talos fists are
sacred idol
"Wtf does that do now?"
chrome geyser
Also; stygian blood makes some casts better vs others. Like; you probably rather the burst of ares, dio, artemis, zeus with the regular +3. But being able to spam so much is also insane.
velvet thicket
i love talos fists in asphodel almost as much as i hate demeter fists in asphodel
sacred idol
Yeah, it does make some of them better
gray lintel
everyone keeps offering me attacks waps and I keep accepting them to g et level ups 
strange wing
i want to get a run going with a poseidon buffed special and just ping-pong enemies with the special
waxen furnace
flip-side argument: "where did my cool hera bow functionality go now that I switched to 3/3 casts? boo"
sacred idol
@chrome geyser Which ones have especially good synergy
chrome geyser
@strange wing i tried that but gods are more fickle it seems now.
Crystal beam seems insane.
strange wing
yeah he hasn't given me his special yet 
waxen furnace
it doing a clearly stated thing, and only that, is nice and simple
chrome geyser
Because you can pop turrets before the previous one expires.
waxen furnace
there's a clear pattern of 2 simpler aspects, 1 complex aspect as a later unlock. and I think that's healthy
sacred idol
Oh point. It does kind of negate the crystal beam downside
Does it work with exit wounds on expiry though
chrome geyser
Even the couple ticks of damage it does before opponents move away can be like 60 damage; which is good.
frail bear
is the area outside of styx at the end of the game always snowy or was that a thing they added for the long winter update? i wonder if it'll change with seasons or some such
chrome geyser
But you can set up so many; just plop one as you run.
sacred idol
Ares does have a solid use case for SS
strange wing
i really like the regen casts with festive fog
sacred idol
Sustained blade rift makes it easier to use before Hunting Blades
frail bear
i also really like regen casts with blade rift
chrome geyser
Aphrodite puts more consistent weak i think; but haven't worked with it yet.
frail bear
it's so fun with rift
velvet thicket
@frail bear it's always been snowy which made people speculate about demeter int he first place
frail bear
oh gotcha
sacred idol
And fully loaded HB with it will probably be superior to base
Dio seems like an odd sidegrade.
chrome geyser
Ice wine is amazing with it.
sacred idol
Ice wine becomes more of a status application machine...
chrome geyser
But ice wine is usually a 400 damage nuke too
sacred idol
I do think it ultimately benefited me in my Green Run.
chrome geyser
so having that every 3 seconds is insane.
dense locust
Oh yeah, caught a projelly
burnt wharf
What aspect of malphon are people liking early?
chrome geyser
TBH; i found the mittens a bit underwhelming.
strange wing
yeah it feels much better on the casts you can't dislodge since you won't be getting those back in less than 3 seconds most of the time anyways
sacred idol
Being able to pelt Hades with ice scint fusion every 3 seconds at long range saved me on 10 heat eris @chrome geyser
burnt wharf
Yeah, I'm leaning talos
velvet thicket
i think talos might be better than demeter but they're pretty even
chrome geyser
Oh it saved my cursed mittens run too @sacred idol ; but at 2 heat.
burnt wharf
Thanks
sacred idol
I do think it is better for non embedding casts
strange wing
and the damage buff post-special kicks ass
velvet thicket
demeter is very strong if you get the aoe dash attack hammer though
wicked hull
Haven't tried Demeter yet but Talos is awesome
sacred idol
For embedding, it is better for spamming Blood debuffs, worse for Artemis
strange wing
you can kinda do a burst cast build with it by pulling in someone then blasting them with Aphrodite's cast
chrome geyser
Demeter is my better favourite tbh; talos is nice but a bit gimmicky
sacred idol
Demeter is extremely strong for bosses by itself isn't it @velvet thicket
waxen furnace
the damage buff on talos is nice, but the repositioning factor alone is huuuuge
chrome geyser
And i feel like with how close quarters the mittens are; some athena is mandatory.
full flame
zag fists are actually really good
wicked hull
the repositioning is what I like most about it, yeah
sacred idol
Talos is utility, Demeter is big monkey dps
strange wing
I love how long the pull distance is on talos' special too
chrome geyser
@full flame that's what i think to.
strange wing
try it out on skelly to see how far it pulls
velvet thicket
@sacred idol i wouldn't say extremely, mittens in general can't do as much dps as like rail or nemesis
sacred idol
With crit special or something though...
full flame
i ran zag fists, with hermes keepsake, athena dash, and i was practically untouchable
wicked hull
Hestia Rail in particular is a DPS machine with few equals
waxen furnace
dio attack + aphro special on dem seems like a great combo
sacred idol
Or Demeter burst
wicked hull
at least in my experience
velvet thicket
like sure the Big Punch wrecks but there's a rly long wait between punches
sacred idol
But relative to other fists I mean
waxen furnace
aphro high% buff on many special hits from dem+ many stacking dio procs on attack seems quite good
sacred idol
Anyone have opinions on my proposal for Demeter adjustment?
One "stage" every 5 hits
chrome geyser
I like to apologize beforehand for all the fisting jokes I will make in the future. I am an immature man.
sacred idol
And multiple combo stages buffing the big uppercut differently
strange wing
https://i.imgur.com/EsA7pph.png I still love seeing how big the number is on this hammer upgrade for it though
sacred idol
So 5 hits = +2 uppercut. 10 hits = +4 uppercut. 15 hits = +4 and one big wallop
velvet thicket
my demeter thought is that it should be lowered to 10 hits. i get that 12 is two full dash attack combos but you often have to interrupt them anyway to dodge things
sacred idol
That would be so much more fun and open up a combo based flexible playstyle imo
I suggested that as a simpler change as well
waxen furnace
"Fishing points absolutely need to not give worse fish as often as they do on a "perfect catch" if we need to catch this many fish to fill a Codex entry. Please buff the rare fish chance, or allow normal catches to have a small chance of rare fish, if perfect catches must have a chance to not give the best ones."
@sacred idol by "rare fish" do you mean "legendary fish"?
because a rare fish is guaranteed with a perfect catch, I believe
sacred idol
But I would like a more complex combo system on the demeter aspect
@waxen furnace probably, yes
waxen furnace
sacred idol
I didn't know the actual terms lol
@ember pumice intended. Ruthless gives dodge chance.
It's very, very powerful
I think it's one of the best alternate perks
I was expecting to find it unusable for my... badness
It was not
dense locust
Trying the aspect of arthur on 32 heat with maxed no choice but no forced over time
going pretty well
sacred idol
One dash doesn't hurt until you get to hades imo
Unless you play on 40% FO or use Middle Management and get headsmashy boy
gray lintel
spear of guan ye is surprisingly fun if spooky
chrome geyser
My codex entries are filled; i caught like 10 stonewals, 8 scylascions and 4 seamares. While the regular rarity fish i have not seen.
sacred idol
20% FO is actually really manageable with ruthless, even for me.
chrome geyser
What is happening? Are we playing a different game? I feel like legendary should be rarer
sacred idol
@chrome geyser Basic fish require imperfect catches, mid rare can spawn on every catch, and legendary is only on perfect
I see a Lot of perfect knuckleheads.
But
chrome geyser
On perfect; the legendery seems extremely common.
waxen furnace
yeah I sorta feel like legendary fish droprates were increased this patch
chrome geyser
I have seen like 2 knuckleheads vs 8 scylascions
waxen furnace
I got 5 legendaries in that first run post-patch with the poseidon boon
chrome geyser
What i mean is; before the patch even; the most common fish i would get is the legendary
waxen furnace
when I barely saw 2 or 3 in the few dozen runs before that
dense locust
Yeah but when they get caught in your aura with no FO, they practically freeze
chrome geyser
And that is over like 200 runs.
dense locust
but i suppose having a choice in my build would be nice
waxen furnace
oh uh. that seems like crazy luck silver
dense locust
perfect knuckle head is my favorite fish
waxen furnace
I believe the droprate on legs was 5%
chrome geyser
I really don't think it's luck. I think the chances are not binary as in perfect regular; but depends on the delay.
rancid shore
I haven't gotten a legendary fish for any of the perfect catches my past 6 runs
feelsbadman
chrome geyser
I think i'm pretty good cause i watch out for the flash; and nothing else.
strange wing
i had no clue rare fish were even a thing
guess my reaction time is too slow to get those perfect catches
sacred idol
If it's true, then it's probably why I see so many scuffers
But then, it makes no sense.
Perfect and perfect-er is a bit of a nonsense concept, no?
chrome geyser
This is where i learned from.
@sacred idol i mean the probabilities are probly a function of the delay betwen the flash and response.
wicked hull
the hat really makes the thumbnail pop
waxen furnace
@sacred idol not really a nonsense concept imo - "perfect" could just mean "your catch was quick enough to at least guarantee a rare"
waxen furnace
I don't think there's a higher droprate for perfect-er catches, mind you
sacred idol
Although I think it was datamined as only having one window
.33 seconds to perfect catch.
waxen furnace
but if that were the case, it wouldn't make the "perfect" denomination invalid
yeah, I believe that's where the wiki data comes from?
surreal tiger
So after some testing, what's the general consensus on Fist Aspects?
opal bay
After I learnt that after 3 fake bobs there definitely can be only real one I really became God of fishing.
velvet thicket
what exactly are the fish doing in the water to make this contrived gameplay system happen. are they coordinating? do they, too, have perfect timing? are the fish aware that some of them have more value as a commodity than others
chrome geyser
DAMN NYX I JUST WANT THE EXCALIBUR; YES I KNOW USING PACT OF PUNISHMENT MAKES ME BETTER AT THE GAME!
I had 8 runs already.
gritty vine
Do i just have to spam talk to nyx to unlock excal or what?
wicked hull
(are there any particular requirements for Arthur Aspect? I already have Guan Yu unlocked)
errant narwhal
i dont even have guan yu yet ;__;
chrome geyser
Unlocking the Aspect of Arthur requires first having unlocked the Aspect of Guan Yu, then having invested a certain amount of Titan Blood into Blade aspects. Then, Nyx will tell you more.
opal bay
Have 5 blood put into sword and guan yu, and Nyx should offer you the aspect.
errant narwhal
think i have all other aspects unlocked
chrome geyser
you need to invest some titan blood into the spear; then just talk to achilles and he should unlock it for you after a while.
opal bay
Yeah Achilles should have a talk about guan yu
chrome geyser
Between them.
opal bay
Five wherever
waxen furnace
someone was reporting needing to do one sword run before they got excal to show up
errant narwhal
so now i just gotta keep doing runs probably... i havent played much the last two updates
gritty vine
@opal bay does unlocking aspects count on the blood spending?
errant narwhal
i dont even know if i have enough titan blood for it, i only have 2
opal bay
I don't think so? Honestly unsure tbh
dense locust
It can block out all options and you cant take anything
errant narwhal
remember to 
it
kind cloud
wow, fishing is worth it now...i just got titan blood from fishing
opal bay
Actually it always did!
kind cloud
wut? really?
opal bay
Just that reward can be random.
kind cloud
i've never gotten it before
opal bay
Yep!
kind cloud
like...i fished like mad...i love it...i stop every run to do it...and never got it before
opal bay
Chaos fish are most great at that, so uh I suggest start doing Poseidon runs
kind cloud
that said...this was the first time i got a chaos fish so that might be it...
opal bay
It's greater with Poseidons new boon
waxen furnace
@kind cloud that is, in fact, it
kind cloud
ah, i see
gritty vine
alright confirmed
kind cloud
@waxen imp lol, damn
Rihanna takes exception to that
gritty vine
unlocking does not count for blood spending
just spent two blood on the sword and killed myself
unlocked it
ah frick i need 3 blood to get it
just spent my last on unlocking the choice to buy it
karmic coyote
rip Zilliax, onto the wild land you go
gritty vine
F
kind cloud
so...uh...when do we get the thanos snap for the infinity guantlet...err...sorry...twin fists?
/patient fox is patient
kind cloud
will it let us do 9999 damage to enemies in a AOE like sephiroth...err...thanatos?
dense locust
infinity mittens
vagrant marten
Than(at)os
karmic coyote
Little Mac aspect, or maybe Ippo
waxen furnace
I wonder what would make sense as a shield 4th aspect
kind cloud
i've been wondering that too
waxen furnace
what hero-figures from mythology used shields prominently?
gritty vine
Leonidas maybe?
still river
captain america
waxen furnace
I'd imagine a medusa shield would fit, but that's already an in-universe reference, and they seem to be keeping up an out-of-mythos theme
kind cloud
well, leonidas got wrecked by unlimited blade works...i mean...if we're talking crossovers...
kind cloud
/enter the gungeon has <indeed> entered the chat
still river
look i am not a pirate expect but i am at least 50% confident blackbeard did not wield a cannon
i think that is probably a little bit too heavy
(^:
waxen furnace
hahaha you get where I'm coming from though
sacred idol
@waxen furnace My idea was Aspect of Horus, wedjat of protection and sun theme
waxen furnace
seafaring
still river
yeah tru
kind cloud
i think many people are surprised we didn't get an ax type weapon for the final weapon
sacred idol
Shield special becomes a laser like Hades does, blocking damage charges buffs, become the sun
kind cloud
water gun from metal gear solid
still river
without being just a straight-up assault rifle itll be a major change to gameplay for the rail aspect
waxen furnace
I like sun-shield
still river
sun shield would be wicked
waxen furnace
cannon-y gameplay is also already covered by rocket specials and such
still river
true true
waxen furnace
semiautomatic stuff too
sacred idol
Egypt aspect is almost mandatory for representing the breadth of Greek influence.
Aspect of Kalashnikov kek
kind cloud
lulz
still river
yeah i think you're def right that an egyptian aspect is one of the other 3
and then like
roman?
rancid shore
norse probs
kind cloud
why not something norse?
rancid shore
ayy jinx
kind cloud
dammit...beaten by a split second
sacred idol
Inb4 rail is a cowboy or something
elfin pulsar
aspect of scarface for gun
sacred idol
Actually
still river
yes please
waxen furnace
gun
rancid shore
Low-key would love it if they somehow justified flamethrower for rail's 4th
waxen furnace
"is the gun itself a snake? or does it shoot snakes?"
"yes"
still river
more aoe, shorter range
surreal tiger
Change the reload into a fuel gauge.
sacred idol
I summon the aspect of Billy the Kid!
rancid shore
I just don't know what aspect that'd be
chrome viper
http://prntscr.com/rejv3u melee rail looking good
rip my DDs though, that tiny vermin caught me by surprise
waxen furnace
if chinese influence wasn't taken, a dragon-y firecracker cannon would be mighty fitting
green sable
these fist weapons are nice.
surreal tiger
My personal opinion is I feel the special should be a three-part combo, like the sword.
rancid shore
Greek Fire was a roman thing right? Maybe that'd work 👀
chrome viper
where my combo oriented weapon at
still river
oh tru
sacred idol
Also, pirate aspect: Brace of Pistols
4 shots but they reload slower, do a crapton of damage and a black powder blast
opal bay
I really want to fully upgrade Demeter aspect fists.
sacred idol
Kills drop gold
Zag animation: Fires two guns, then pulls out more guns and shoots those.
sacred idol
Or that
waxen furnace
*slower
opal bay
The promise of making the special hit more than ones is so great
sacred idol
But we have Spread Fire.
waxen furnace
fair point
sacred idol
Which is already that, it's even scrap musket-looking
rancid shore
They just take the carbine from bastion and stick it in the game without changing it at all
sacred idol
Not the Kid I had in mind but I'll take it
green sable
im using my trusty arti crits with the fists...they are doing good so far.
waxen furnace
a hitscan railgun would be fun
green sable
i mean arti crits is how i won my first run
surreal tiger
You could also go in another direction and make the gun into some sort of arcane thing. Maybe a laser of some sort.
waxen furnace
charging similar to bow, increasing damage instead of range
special could be an aoe burst of electricity
opal bay
Also I am loving that aspect which allows you to pull enemies with special
waxen furnace
or an overheating laser instead of hitscan
sacred idol
I would go for a laser yes
waxen furnace
@opal bay right?! It's so much fun
opal bay
Unless I am up against the cat wheelies
sacred idol
Teleforce
opal bay
It's just suicidal to pull them
surreal tiger
Fists have a lot of problems with Cat Dealies.
Special needs to be a motion-activated mine like the one enemy type.
clear haven
Uppercutting Theseus smug stupid face for 1k damage is DEEPLY satisfying.
kindred bolt
hey guys, how i unlock medusa's legendary keepsake? anyone around know?
i think she asked me to buy something from the house contractor, but i skip things so fast, i might have missed it, i just think its in the lounge
last nacelle
I think you need to interact with Nyx for the option to occur.
opal bay
Yeah you have to upgrade lounge
surreal tiger
I think you just need 12 total.
drowsy island
i feel v dumb for just connecting dusa to medusa thanks to @kindred bolt
green sable
with fists i cranked up to just slightly under 2K in dmg in a contious hits
kindred bolt
i bought most upgrades in lounge, lets hope she offers me the keepsake, thanks for the tip everyone
green sable
i got the new room open just before i went on this new run with the fists.
sullen valley
Doom + Uppercut = Wow
clear haven
I was about to say that fists feel OP, but then I remembered that I normally play around 17 heat.
And my fists are still at 2
opal bay
Fists are great honestly.
grim loom
are the heart projectiles in an aphrodite trial supposed to be really difficult to spot or am i just bad
sacred idol
Guess you're literally doomfist now
kindred bolt
i already upgraded 2 aspects of the fists, and both are fun as hell
i only have 1 blood now, upgrading weapons is so hard in this game
dense locust
It's so disheartening to do a 32 heat run and then lose when Hades has 1/3 hp left...
lime estuary
Okay, I’m starting to get the hang of Excalibur
dense locust
It's very strong imo, but you have to do a lot of dash specials and well timed attacks, and play around the aura
lime estuary
The key is to take advantage of the damage reduction when you want to be greedy
Mhm
dense locust
You only get the damage reduction inside the aura right?
dense locust
I did a maxed no choice run with no forced over time and made it to theseus
but boy was the rng not in my favor
It's strong with very little boons
lime estuary
Speaking of forced overtime, have the hitbox glitches on +40% been fixed yet?
dense locust
i didn't know about them to begin with
do you mean with things like hades spin attack?
lime estuary
The main one I know is the middle management version of the cyclops elite
The hit box on the shockwave attack is way off
I refuse to turn it up to +40% until it’s fixed
dense locust
lol if you run to left right as you get out of the pool of blood you can make zag phase into the wall
clear haven
Can anyone amplify what exactly God's Chosen does>?
primal cape
Per each unique god you get a 6% bonus in damage
Though it’s unclear how chaos or hermes fit into that
clear haven
Wat?
I think you mean Family Favorite.
I need to know what exactly that little icon is on God's chosen.
vagrant marten
The icon is the sort of lauren crown you see on the Daedalus boons for instance
clear haven
I think I get it...
primal cape
I still don’t know the boon names my bad
astral fjord
Bruh arthur aspect is the simplest weapon in the game and i love it
It, in combination with a revenge set just let me facetank final boss
green sable
now Zeus with fists is very nice so far.
dense locust
idk, if im going zeus attack, i'd prefer the rail
marble ridge
when those Hades player who comment on mistakes before they were patched out
- low tolerance *
sorry, go on
dim ridge
Can the Breaching Cross hammer not be found with the non-zagreus aspects? ive done like 10 runs with them and havent been able to find it
dense locust
They should all appear unless it says they aren't compatible on the wiki, but I see no reason for it to not be compatible
clear haven
@dim ridge No, you're just unlucky. Random be like that.
opal bay
You can find it with non zag aspect yeah
green sable
well Jolt dmg is nice to
clear haven
I've had it twice, and never even used zag
sacred idol
Fist of Vengeance lol
dense locust
I was just about to say that I think Breaching Cross might be top tier for the mittens if you're planning on going toe to toe with enemies
Because once you face armored enemies, it's hard if you can't stun them
dim ridge
fair enough
dense locust
otherwise you have to be a sneaky little fella dashing in and out
dim ridge
also is it just me is or zeus special absolutely incredible with demeter aspect
clear haven
I do kind of wish they replaced the animation of the multihit uppercut+kick hammer with a Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku. It'd be appropriate.
primal cape
What is the max ranks for both of the fated skills?
chrome geyser
Ugh crash and lost an entire run.
sacred idol
@dim ridge I would think Zeus attack is better, because it doesn't benefit the damage of the special as much.
chrome geyser
I hate how crashing after taking damage in a room completely deletes the run.
sacred idol
Maybe Zeus attack, Demeter special, Cold Fusion is a better option.
Or Poseidon special Sea Storm, if it doesn't knock away too hard to hit the entire swing
5x Sea Storm is nasty
chrome geyser
I would say it's just you @dim ridge ; since the zeus special only activates once.
sacred idol
Classic privileged status rupture.
Wait, really? It has the same issue as Chiron, attacking too fast for the cooldown?
I know attack doesn't, it hits every time
@pine spindle f10 it
@chrome geyser You tried zeus special demeter?
I can see how icd would trigger on it
Zeus attack/Dem special/Arctic Blast is a lot more profit
sacred idol
I have a bonkers build idea now
Artemis special. Dionysus attack. Aphro cast. Stygian Soul.
Shotgun them with aphro cast, poison them to hell and back, uppercut for massive crit damage
Low tol heart rend
Dash? Anything you like. Athena for defense.
Also for potential four way duo cascade with Deadly Reversal and Spent Spirit
iron shale
I had basically the same
Just demeter on attack
Actually useful with the explosion at 10
chrome geyser
sacred idol
Oh yeah Demeter attack is pretty spicy
iron shale
XD
sacred idol
But consider the absolute nightmare of that duo combo
iron shale
Hehe
primal cape
@pine spindle are you using the shield option from pact of punishment?
chrome geyser
Zeus special; unless they changed it; has a cooldown per unit. It cannot activate on the same unit more than once every .3 seconds.
iron shale
Also i ran the talos poseidon special memebuild
sacred idol
Yes, silver, I was talking about the internal cooldown.
unique plinth
getting back into Hades, haven't played since Bone Hydra was the final boss, what's strong right now?
sacred idol
I just don't know how it works on Demeter, because I don't know its real hit interval
iron shale
And the little wagons
chrome geyser
There seems to be no hit interval with demeter.
I see the damage applied in one solid chunk.
sacred idol
Huh. So the time freeze literally is purely cosmetic? I was seeing 5 hits stacking
On skelly
sacred idol
The interruption when you special, that a lot of people have complained about
chrome geyser
It feels so chunky; i really hate how the new weapon drops the frame rate.
sacred idol
Does Hermes count for FF
clear haven
I like the impact halt, but they might could stand to make it optional.
For some people it causes motion sickness.
sacred idol
I think the impact stopping isn't very well implemented.
primal cape
There’s an awkward part when you special on fists and can’t move but can take dmg
primal cape
I don’t remember what hammers I had/didn’t have at the time
It might just be ending lag of the special attack but even so I didn’t enjoy it
hot fiber
What does administritive chamber do?
primal cape
Nothing really
sacred idol
The Quake Cutter hammer adds massive ending lag.
primal cape
Story elements and lets you look at past run indo
sacred idol
If you had it, that's the issue
primal cape
Info
hot fiber
How do i unlock it?
sacred idol
Check past run in Admin to see what you were using?
primal cape
I’ll check for it in the future I’m unsure what run I noticed it
I did like 4 fists runs in a row
They all blend together
pine spindle
@pine spindle are you using the shield option from pact of punishment?
@primal cape No. I've testing it several times now to make sure. The firey presence mirror upgrade does not do ANYTHING.
chrome geyser
The administrator chamber is built to bar me from the excalibur aspect; as nyx seems to be more concerned with talking about the room than giving me the code word.
sacred idol
Do you have blue hearts on?
chrome geyser
I'm getting really salty.
dense locust
I'm really enjoying going artemis ares with the alternative cast on the mittens
sacred idol
@pine spindle Did you try on skelly, and with no heat? I got one hit on gloves on skelly
chrome geyser
Ares is nice with talon; you can apply doom remotely.
Or any effect for that matter.
chrome geyser
I had that and was great.
dense locust
having it recharge and using it to kite
chrome geyser
Without hunting blades too.
I really don't like the reduction in legendary/duo boons.
dense locust
i got vicious and the one that pulls them in
dense locust
Idk, its been reliable taking enemies with it
chrome geyser
But my last run (that i did not lose) was a blade dash run.
dense locust
still only on 3 heat with the fists though
chrome geyser
I did not get the legendary; but was fun.
I'm on 4
was going to be 5 before CRASH
chrome geyser
And I did like 10 runs.
dense locust
The 1000% damage to armor is pretty freaking great
chrome geyser
Still no arthur.
dense locust
did you do a sword run?
chrome geyser
No i haven't
chrome geyser
Greg's post does not mention that
Unlocking the Aspect of Arthur requires first having unlocked the Aspect of Guan Yu, then having invested a certain amount of Titan Blood into Blade aspects. Then, Nyx will tell you more.
But ill try it tomorrow
I'm burned out.
dense locust
well maybe it was a coincidence then, but i was in the same boat, reduced my lives to 0 with the new heat, died, boom
if you max out the heat that takes away the 3 mirror upgrades, its really easy to kill yourself
try it with sword, it'll take less than a minute
chrome geyser
Oh I'm familiar into walking into traps on the second room to kill myself.
dense locust
unless you have a streak going
chrome geyser
I don't care much about streaks.
chrome geyser
I also hate it when a game/computer crash deletes a game that proceded late and i have to play the same seed.
Eh; i can do it really quick i guess
alpine pivot
not sure if this is a bug, is anyone else hearing some sort of alarm-like sounds in various rooms with the new patch?
chrome geyser
She is talking about chaos 
chrome geyser
It was not it. It took 3 more suicides.
But I got the sword.
The 4th swing deals 200 damage.
Athena call would be awesome with this.
And im guessing hermes attack boon.
sacred idol
200 damage across whole combo @chrome geyser
Sad reality of the new damage display
It makes numbers look thiccer than they are
night path
speaking of disappointing damage, zag fists + long knuckle + concentrated knuckle, sounds like it'd shred targets. it's honestly not very powerful :/
sacred idol
Someone said it was super stronk, maybe bad boons
dense locust
I guess it was just a coincidence for me then @chrome geyser
keen carbon
good, preferably 😄
night path
bad way: poseidon, ares
keen carbon
dio poison on the special?
night path
i guess you could
keen carbon
but i kinda feel like a lot of poison stacks will be wasted like that? it goes up to a max right?
I never even ran into demeter yet
unborn trellis
stacks being wasted is ok
its still the best way to apply poison in the game
i think demeter only starts showing up after you reach (not beat) the final boss once
keen carbon
oh cool, actually did that on my last run yesterday, so should be seeing her today then 😄
surreal oracle
On first run after, yeah
unborn trellis
thats a lot of ora
night path
i dont know why, but it doesn't really do any damage
keen carbon
how do they play? don't have enough keys to unlock yet 😦
night path
it's pretty okay
dense locust
Not a huge fan of excalibur at high high heat
night path
ora?
surreal oracle
Jojo meme
unborn trellis
jojo meme, dw about it
i still remember when occasions such as these invited Fist of the North Star references instead of jojo 😔
unique plinth
do urns still have a small chance to drop obols or am I breaking them for no reason now
ocean halo
They never did just randomly drop obols
surreal oracle
It’s an upgrade you’ll have to purchase
ocean halo
Only golden ones
sacred idol
@night path You skipped heat 0?
sacred idol
@unborn trellis I still make Fist of the North Star jokes 
I've been meming about Aspect of Kenshiro since the update was still being awaited
Aspect of Kenshiro: Delays damage dealt, applies a huge multiplier when you end combo
Overkill spills past armor.
unique plinth
ah, I think they did a long time ago, when I last played
the game must be easier now than it was, my save data was wiped but I just killed the bone hydra on like, my third run?
unique plinth
I mean I lost all my mirror passives and such too
brisk island
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/777373408605004437/08B69F66A79632C0BB5E5D9D6B8411C41719D157/
errr... shouldn't both Defiance exclude each other? In normal case l would take Epic darkness multiplier boon because of health restoration... but this 'ho-ho' literally insane have both Defiance types at once.
unique plinth
when I last played bone hydra was the final boss
unborn trellis
they def nerfed the hydra since then
unique plinth
ah
unborn trellis
because they always make the last available boss hard
and then when it wasn the last anymore, they nerf it
brisk island
@sacred idol Yeah. l noticed how cast regen works... just wow.
unborn trellis
though its weird that your save got wiped
sacred idol
Regen cast can be very good or very bad
unique plinth
it was really old
and idk if epic does cloud saves, I built a new machine since then
radiant swallow
Regen cast is absolutely bonkers with any increase to cast number
unborn trellis
that would be why
i dont think there are cloud saves
radiant swallow
If you get the +3 ammo or even just +1 from chaos, it's super broken
Each ammo recharges on a seperate timer
unique plinth
pretty lame on epic's part, cloud saves are like, basic functionality now
sacred idol
an Epic fail on their end
turbid needle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/181645099485233152/687214564500176903/20200311162426_1.jpg is it normal to have a lvl 2 weapon aspect?
night path
sure
sacred idol
Talos 2: Magnetic Boogaloo
frosty pier
Did you got Euridice or nectar buff going wrong direction?
turbid needle
dont remember running into eurydice at all during the run actually
brisk island
l'm just now got "chaos" fish. thats right - fishing in chaos dimension.
pretty rare event l guess.
marble ridge
I like to think those are just Talos' hands
turbid needle
oh yeah i exchanged for the upgraded frost strike
sacred idol
Tanos
west wren
anyone figured the new companion yet?
jovial pawn
I kinda of have a problem trying to unlock the guan yu aspect. I already put in plenty of titans blood and talked to achilles about it
sacred idol
There's a bug with Guan Yu where rarity upgrades to Attack (and maybe Special) actually add more lifesteal, could be on more weapons now @turbid needle
jovial pawn
do I need to keep talking to Achilles to unlock the aspect?
turbid needle
i was under the impression that guan yu bug was fixed already, no?
frosty pier
Untill you get the password I guess?
sacred idol
No fix listed
dense locust
Ive done ares cast with vicious cycle and the alt cast mirror every single run with the mittens...
sacred idol
Should I take Quake Cutter on my first 0 heat to get it out of the way, seeing as it's kinda bad
eh, probably
sacred idol
quack is awful, lmao
keen carbon
is Quake one of the daedalus upgrades for claws?
sacred idol
yes
keen carbon
just getting informed haha, haven't unlocked them yet
sacred idol
Can Dash-Strike and Attack boons from Chaos stack?
flat cape
what are some good excalibur builds?
dull scroll
Does hunter dash affect fist special? Looks like a no which is weird, as you can dash attack with fist special too.
heady zephyr
does the bonus damage to undamaged count armour as damage?
heady zephyr
rip
well at least hestia rail is still crazy good with the new modifiers
i've been running the legendary/duo boon upgrade but it seems honestly not worth it considering i've had to finish a few of my last runs with common boons
also it seems like boons in general are quite a bit less common? or is that just me
btw, how do you unlock excal?
brisk island
talk npcs (when they want) @heady zephyr
sacred idol
What's good on Arthur again?
heady zephyr
thanks
brisk island
Probably Nectar gifts needed to trigger certain scripts. About this l'm no idea. @heady zephyr
heady zephyr
well i have plenty of blood left to put into the fists so no rush
zag fists seem like one of the better 'default' aspects
alongside his bow
also does anyone know if dodge stacks additively?
frosty pier
Shouldn't it? Everything does so.
heady zephyr
if so, zag aspect is actually really solid then
sacred idol
It's what zag sword should have been.
heady zephyr
the thing is, if you stack zag aspect, evasion, and the new dodge, that would give you 95% dodge, which seems....a little busted
oh yeah and you have his trinket. couldn't you temporarily get to 100 with that?
sacred idol
think it's capped or something?
sacred idol
@pine spindle the "single chaos boon" snowballs absurdly hard with Golden Touch, btw
radiant swallow
The demeter aspect combined with the aoe dash special procs the aoe for every extra hit
sacred idol
also, I mean, as long as you spend wisely you can still buy out shops.
radiant swallow
It's actually absurd
sacred idol
I've bought everything from Elysium shop onward and still only lacked the coins for the 1.5k item
icy girder
With the new update I do miss being able to respec the mirror freely. Having to pay a Key is not too bad but I did enjoy being able to play around with my stats rather then having to dedicate to them.
dull scroll
Agreed and wish there was a "confirm changes" button
icy girder
yes that would be really good
Like, before I loved being able to undoo all my upgrades and then try a completly diffrent build
like undo everything and instead put it all into getting 3 death defiance.
cant do that now because I need to save my keys up to unlock more stuff
sacred idol
I suggested confirm button
teal wren
so... what's your guys favorite knuckles aspect yet?
sacred idol
sonic
dull scroll
yeah with all the new possible builds switching builds free should be a thing. key costs get out of hand pretty quickly
frosty pier
Talos
dull scroll
looks like there's no real consensus which is better, demeter or talos
both are funny though
icy girder
talos?
teal wren
does talos increase your additional procs damage too or only the base attack damage?(ie does it increase zeus lightning/ares doom damage?)
dull scroll
even the zag one with attack speed and dodge chance plays sweet
frosty pier
to be honest with you I just like everything with +cast damage in it
icy girder
I need to play more to learn what these things are
frosty pier
It does not increase proc damage
teal wren
dodge chance+ruthless sounds amazing
sacred idol
dull scroll
Artemis hunter dash doesn't work with dash-special, but i guess it would be busted with demeter aspect
dim rapids
it doesn't?
dull scroll
attack only
sacred idol
Oh, lame
dull scroll
yeah wish it worked
dim rapids
that sucks major balls
sacred idol
I did suggest that dash attack boons should apply
dim rapids
and i had explosive
dull scroll
devs probably forgot to tweak the boon to affect fists
sacred idol
I have a big thonk idea
frosty pier
Didn't they even change wording on that boon?
sacred idol
Artemis attack on Talos
Because the worst part of Artemis attack is the raw damage...
Talos only adds raw damage...
dim rapids
demeter aspect
sacred idol
if you get crits, it'll hit a lot harder on talos aspect
dim rapids
aphro special for +200% or so
sacred idol
yeah, sure, I just mean if you want to use talos' damage bonus
lament coral
Talos is a percentile increase, not raw damage
sacred idol
Yeah, the raw damage bonus
not base damage
aka, it stacks additively with artemis, no?
should give it about similar damage to a stronger attack boon, before crits
Same principle as chaos attack on artemis attacks
lament coral
or you could just take Demeter or Zeus
sacred idol
zeus has zero interaction with that one though
lament coral
lightning doesn't get boosted?
frosty pier
Nope
sacred idol
Wait, that's wrong...
It should
+Damage boosts on other Aspects buff procs, don't they...
Wait, no, achilles buffs cast, but I don't know if it buffs doom
hm
yeah I think procs just don't scale with attack buffs
only crit chance
and Eris
lament coral
well, Demeter would still be better
sacred idol
Eris is an exception because it's global damage
frosty pier
They were at some point but no longer do.
sacred idol
Demeter on talos attack?
lament coral
Demeter attack on any fist
sacred idol
oh wait, Talos buffs cast
lament coral
put any status on the special and you got massive damage output
sacred idol
lol, hunting blades
teal wren
due to privileged status or something else?
sacred idol
the upside of using artemis is getting HB builds to work perfectly as well
and talos doom special if you want
sacred idol
I mean, it might be a little on the side of busted then
lament coral
Priv Stat, plus Demeter's burst thing, which creates an explosion once you stack chill 10 times on an enemy
sacred idol
Just because you could spam Special Doom
By the way, Demeter fist special hits five times but the delay is close to Chiron
so it's just below the zeus icd
icy girder
Suggestion: When looking to accept a boon that will replace a previous one, the effects of said boon should be shown on screen somewhere so that we can easily see what we are replacing.
sacred idol
On another note: The fists seem to have the same base Attack speed as the Rail?
But 5 more base damage
frosty pier
And ever plesant coldness of a wretch right in your face.
sacred idol
They have about... I want to say 1/3 the range, 1/4 at worst
But they have VERY high stunlock capability (basically anything not a boss or armor lul), unlike the Rail's almost nonexistent hitstagger.
And they have no ammo, so their sustained DPS is pretty damn high across the whole interval
and Concentrated Knuckle scales a ton better
their DPS isn't remotely bad with the right setup, not comparatively
oh hey, Arthur really DOES have 200 base damage per hit
Not combined
dim rapids
from what i know arthur does ridiculous base damage
use multipliers and you got yourself your own hestia crit build but on sword
sacred idol
yeah it does