oh no! I liked that
#h1-builds-and-combat
waxen furnace
dense locust
Are you invul while using demeter aspect special?
waxen furnace
to be fair it encouraged a really passive playstyle
scarlet kindle
also guan yu's wall phasing was inconsistent with every other attack
tidal thorn
https://i.imgur.com/o1oZ0up.jpg
I know everyone is hooked on fists right now but I had the game pretty much pllay itself here. lol
oak owl
goddam
solid cairn
I would have appreciated some sort of trade off
waxen furnace
bouncing can mean a lot mroe danage if an enemy is near a wall
dense locust
The ideal ares cast build is so satisfying
hard holly
Ah yes
tidal thorn
First time I've gone cast and actually gotten Dual Shot too.
hard holly
The blender build
dense locust
Did you have ares call?
waxen furnace
I wonder if the new bloodstone regen darkness passive is actually quite nice for non-cast builds
if you're just using it to trigger PS
iron shale
it is
solid cairn
Like what if it didn'go through walls but it lasted a little longer
tidal thorn
No Ares call, got Aphro from Styx shop because I had money. lol
iron shale
or applying cast effect
wicked hull
not having to hunt for stones is certainly nice when you don't need multiple casts
iron shale
and you dont ened to wait
iron shale
until the bosses drop it
dense locust
Ares call is very unnecessary but fun any how
waxen furnace
3 sec wait time is not bad at all
scarlet kindle
not great for the dedicated cast aspects but it seems fine if casts arent your only damage source
iron shale
yeah as support cast
waxen furnace
just got an Elite controller as a gift. rebound call to trigger if I press down two paddles. I like this a lot
waxen furnace
approaching a controller layout I'm really, really happy with
oak owl
wait is the posiden fishing buff random?
dense locust
Dusa is so cute just dancing to Orpheus's song and dusting
iron shale
i believe once is guaranteed
waxen furnace
dash on left trigger, attack on right trigger, special on right bumper, reload on right stick, cast on X (which I'm not convinced is where I want it to be permanently), call on B, summon on Y
hollow sorrel
So far, the only mirror option I bother switching is the first one, with Hestia. The rest are just ???
iron shale
if you say so
scarlet kindle
gold touch is really good
iron shale
xD
dense locust
Very first room with the new update had the fishing buff
oak owl
the legendary one is cool
iron shale
i liked quite alot
gritty sage
Is Concentrated Knuckle bugged? Constantly hitting an enemy by holding attack doesnt increase the damage values
iron shale
it did for me = /
scarlet kindle
family favorite is nice if you dont want to bother with statuses
waxen furnace
gold touch seems good, but I'm not sure it pairs too well with my typical spend-a-lot-pre-boss-fight habits
hard holly
It works, but it doesnt stack infinitely
scarlet kindle
it's great for saving for styx
waxen furnace
for things like hestia rail, family favorite actually seems pretty good
as getting PS on things before you hestia burst them is a bit of a pain sometimes
sure, it's less of a damage ceiling, but it's wayyyyy more consistent which is a big plus
and means you have a lot more build flexibility
gritty sage
Im not sure if it's working at all. For example one full attack chain would do 279 if it's the first attack or the third.
On a Chariot
scarlet kindle
god's chosen seems interesting on paper though i havent tried it so idk if its worth giving up epic chance
waxen furnace
the alternates to Olympian Favor and God's Pride are tempting, but I'm really unsure if they're worth it
dim rapids
random 10 heat fist run
hollow sorrel
Rarity damage scaling is so busted on attack/special, that it's not worth switching away from it
dim rapids
dense locust
|| I love the permanent record feature, I just wish it worked retroactively ||
solid cairn
Alternate options need a slight bit of rebalancing
rancid shore
Yeah I also saw a bunch of my old runs
scarlet kindle
i dont like that they nerfed legendary and duo chance just to justify that one talent existing
maiden nexus
Some of the perks given to armor is too OD
Armored Skulls with shadow clones.
Hp Boost with Hp Boost punishment
tidal thorn
btw Dear Supergiant, I'd buy a Contractor Shade and Wretched Broker plushie.
dense locust
Finally I can see what hammers I used for my rail 32
velvet thicket
i think the only new mirror upgrade i'm gonna end up using is ruthless dash, plus bonus on first hit for hestia i guess. and maaaaybe the alt death defiance on high heat. all the others just seem worse to me
i though the alt thick skin would be good but i don't think it's worth it
tidal thorn
The one where you heal with darkness is great imo.
waxen furnace
alt thick skin seems reallllly painful
darkness heal seems great. makes an infernal trove option be a decent heal as well
velvet thicket
i usually take damage over health any day of the week but it's too inconsistent and the bonus isnt that much
tidal thorn
Exactly.
waxen furnace
Stygian Soul seems good on many non-cast runs
and I suspect I'm underrating Family Favorite
hard holly
Man, going from Fists to Hestia is wild
scarlet kindle
its usually a flat +18% damage
hard holly
I was just struggling to kill enemies quickly
Now Im oneshotting things left and right
waxen furnace
a relatively consistent flat 18-24% damage seems great to me tbh
esp on things like hestia rail
scarlet kindle
yeah
waxen furnace
makes a lot of builds less cumbersome
scarlet kindle
priv status was nerfed to 40% too so its a closer tradeoff
waxen furnace
oh was it now?
dense locust
Dark regeneration seems infinitely better than chthonic vitality
waxen furnace
I think I'm going to try keeping Olympian Favor but try out God's Chosen instead
and switch to Fated Persuasion
I really want to try the new aspects but gotta go through a full run first. RIP
dense locust
omg fiery presence is awesome too
waxen furnace
what does fiery presence max out at?
velvet thicket
also 50
waxen furnace
oh my. going to try that out now, then
dense locust
Im not big on family favorite
2 status isn't all that hard, but i rarely have more than 4 gods
rancid shore
because you have to force more than 4 gods
dense locust
does hermes count towards that?
waxen furnace
why do you have to force more than 4?
rancid shore
the upkeep is the problem especially with runs where you take artemis
you only get 4
dense locust
I can see builds that don't use status using it
rancid shore
but you can use a trinket or rerolls in styx to force more
waxen furnace
yeah I'm aware you only typically get 4, I just don't see why you'd really need to force more than that just for 6% more
dense locust
I think it should go to 9ish% though
velvet thicket
there's definitely weapons where i rarely get any use out of status so it's just free bonus damage
waxen furnace
oh I see what you mean now
dense locust
Yeah but I'd rather build on my current gods than force other ones
velvet thicket
but i think status is usually better
waxen furnace
@dense locust not sure I agree with that line of thinking though. Even at just 4 gods, that's a 15% decrease in damage for a lot more consistency
heady zephyr
Certain gods don't lend towards status well
waxen furnace
you can lean into your main damage dealing method a lot more
heady zephyr
Artemis or zeus for instance
waxen furnace
it means you can do things like artemis a lot more easily
dense locust
Not sure about olympian legacy either. Just based on my last two runs, I got 2-3 duos and a legendary both runs with olympian favor
heady zephyr
Not zeus, ares
waxen furnace
on things like No Choice runs, I'd imagine you'd be gimped a bit less
heady zephyr
I took olympian legacy and the first room was poseidon offering me the fishing boon lol
dense locust
@waxen furnace yeah good point, thinking about it its pretty balanced
velvet thicket
that's the first room on new patch no matter what
dense locust
Does hermes count towards it? @waxen furnace
rancid shore
The point of the new mirror upgrades isn't to exactly match. It's about trading some things off to be different
waxen furnace
increased duo/legendary is really tempting. I'm often fishing for them
dense locust
considering hermes is more in line with the hammers than the gods boons
rancid shore
Which is why I think people saying golden touch isn't well balanced because they play differently than it allows are missing the point.
waxen furnace
I just don't know if I can give up damage consistency on key boons
heady zephyr
Golden touch seems flat out better
dense locust
How does increased rare chance affect epic, duo, or legendary chance? Not at all?
rancid shore
It's better if you don't shop often
dense locust
Golden touch does seem flat out better
rancid shore
It's not if you shop a lot
lament coral
duo and legendary cannot be epic
rancid shore
That's the whole point.
heady zephyr
Or get a chaos gold boon early
full moat
where is new punchy thing
dense locust
Especially on high heat runs where you have to save a ton of gold anyway
lament coral
so they're not affected in any way
full moat
i dont see the new weapon in the room
waxen furnace
I remember someone saying that miniboss rooms have a lower duo/legendary chance. can't confirm that though
dense locust
Oh wait its an entire region
lament coral
- epic chance just stacks with the default epic chance
dense locust
so you'd really have to save up
velvet thicket
@full moat you have to play a new run, it'll be there when you get back
waxen furnace
something about the higher epic/rare chance in miniboss rooms for example meaning a lower duo chance
dense locust
@waxen furnace yeah I think its true
I dont think you can even get a duo from mini boss
but i dont remember clearly
waxen furnace
excited to see if there's a meaningful difference caused by taking God's Chosen
waxen furnace
yeahhhh I don't know if I'm ever going to switch back to backstab damage, honestly
it's not like I'm good enough at this game (still at the high single digit heat level) to constantly be backstabbing
velvet thicket
it feels to me like backstab damage is clearly better with most weapons. fiery is just one hit
dense locust
Theres too much to process a lot of the time to think about dashing behind an enemy to hit them in the back
pine spindle
question: which mirror upgrade do you need to get the new "bad news" boon from hermes?
velvet thicket
yeah fists are very good with backstab
heady zephyr
But bow is also very good with the alt perk
heady zephyr
In fact bow and hestia are prob the best weapons with fiery imo
waxen furnace
I guess if you dash around and use chiron aspect
heady zephyr
I was thinking hera... Does it not buff cast damage?
waxen furnace
but for hera/normal bow I'd prefer fiery
ah - I guess with chiron bow, the extra damage would go to the first attack, not to your main damage dealer. so you might as well take backstab
rancid shore
RIP styxbot dead once again
waxen furnace
I see where you're coming from
velvet thicket
same with hera actually since casts are doing most of the work
dense locust
Whew boy and I can't see myself ever using stubborn defiance
rancid shore
Imagine only losing one defiance to MM megagorgon
dense locust
The problem with hestia and fiery is that if the enemy has 2 blue shield
you have to be very careful not to damage them but remove the 2 shield
waxen furnace
depends on the cast for hera bow, I guess
heady zephyr
Darkness heal, alt gold, fiery, and legend/duo seem really good
waxen furnace
artemis cast would like fiery, I think (which damage triggers first? bow attack or cast damage?)
heady zephyr
Alt defiance... Maybe.
velvet thicket
i think i'll take alt defiance on 32 heat. or at least try it
waxen furnace
torn on legend/duo vs increased good-room-chance
rancid shore
yeah if you're bad
dense locust
darkness farming?
heady zephyr
I think the arrow hits and then the cast flies out. You can undershoot the arrow and the cast will keep flying
dense locust
having 1 life against hades would be a nightmare
rancid shore
You'd probably want the cerb trinket on it instead
solid cairn
just the thought of doing hades with 1 DD using guan yu is giving me conniptions
heady zephyr
Depends on which gets consumed first
waxen furnace
QoL of the old mirror pact item made me never pick it
heady zephyr
If stubborn defiance got consumed before skelly defiance, that would actually be really good imo
velvet thicket
yeah, having to reconfigure your mirror every single time was so annoying
rancid shore
I think it doesn't matter. You can do hades one life even if you're bad with enough health :^)
waxen furnace
is one rank of underworld customs fine? it seems not that bad to me
heady zephyr
True lol
solid cairn
rip guan yu
waxen furnace
getting to 7/8 heat runs now. I typically go for full extreme measures, and 1x jury summons/lasting consequences. figuring out what to pick next to add to things
heady zephyr
Guan yu had it coming tbh
waxen furnace
should probably get used to Forced Overtime soon
heady zephyr
Shooting through walls was ridic with that level of damage and aoe
tidal thorn
Because Sword is actually hard to use.
I think GY is pretty easy, and by far the best Spear aspect.
velvet thicket
nemesis
tidal thorn
I thought you meant Nemesis.
heady zephyr
Poseidon tbh
solid cairn
in my opinion
tidal thorn
Well shield is just easy mode in general.
heady zephyr
Man are people memeing me with chaos shield? Everyone says it's good but it's so unreliable
I prefer zeus shield
waxen furnace
it feels like one of the most reliable builds to me
lots of build paths, all of which melt rooms
velvet thicket
zeus shield is the fun one
solid cairn
y'know maybe I'm not giving nemesis sword enough of a chance
heady zephyr
It's good against trash mobs but how do you reliably land multiple shield hits against, say, theseus
solid cairn
calling it the best is just so far fetched
waxen furnace
with boss fights it ends up being a bit more attrition-y, but the fact that you're using shield means you can minimize a lot of damage
velvet thicket
it's definitely the best the dps is nutso
waxen furnace
interested in trying out Benefits Package
solid cairn
it's also super risky
crank up forced overtime and it's super hard to not trade with every enemy
heady zephyr
Zeus shield is also real good against some bosses cause if you git gud you can park it on them or even kite them while it follows you
Oh yeah I'm not at overtime levels yet so I can't speak to that hahs
waxen furnace
what happens if you stand inside zeus shield with athena?
solid cairn
case in point
hard holly
17:20 run with Hestia
waxen furnace
deflect all the things?
hard holly
Despite opening every chest along the way
earnest ravine
It reflects all things that enter, yeah.
hard holly
Dang
waxen furnace
that seems... fun
heady zephyr
Athena guandao also does that
earnest ravine
You're still vlunerable to lasers and melee thnigs if they aren't pointing directly at its center
velvet thicket
you'll still get hit a bunch
waxen furnace
are some trap floor panels new?
velvet thicket
i like the way they used to look :<
rare salmon
I am really not liking the new changes to Boon Rarities... it feels a lot harder to actually get good boons now. And choosing between Rare Boons or Legendary/Duos is super sad. How do others feel about this?
tidal thorn
I think they stand out better.
heady zephyr
New floor panels are way better imo
rare salmon
"Reduced base offering rate of Legendary and Duo Boons; a new Mirror Talent lets you boost this"
tidal thorn
I'm ok with it so far, but I've only done four runs.
hard holly
It hasnt really impacted my experience much
I still find Legendary and Duo boons
Theyre just a tiny bit less prevalent
rare salmon
Assuming you maxed out most of your previous Mirror options, they've effectively now reduced that chance of Rare boons. I hate seeing Common boons. It makes me super sad.
hard holly
Same with the rare and epic thing
Especially since rare/epic is not that big of an upgrade
brittle carbon
i don’t like the new tiny power skill animation
velvet thicket
rare/epic is a huge upgrade on attack and special boons imo
very hesitant to give it up
hard holly
Thats the thing, its really not, mostly because Poms dont care if your boon is common or Heroic
Theyll boost it by the same amount
Plus damage is multiplicative
rare salmon
They've reduced the chance of either Rare Boons or Legendary/Duo Boons. You can't possibly have the same Legendary/Duo chance and Rare chance that you used to have. It's an outright nerf. THat just feels bad.
I enjoy brutally powerful runs more than anything. Let us have that back! 😦
hard holly
Im not saying it wasnt nerfed
Im saying it hasnt really impacted me enough for me to notice
And you can still get those brutally powerful runs
Hell, the only thing I was lacking in my last Hestia run was Artemis Dash
brittle carbon
i see a lot more common skills that usual
waxen furnace
yeah, it's a nerf I'd rather did not happen, but it's sorta what I signed up for when I bought an EA game especially
not too bothered
rare salmon
Assuming you actually enjoy Duo Boons, then they essentially nerfed the Rare Boon chance by 50%. Was there really a problem with the previous rate?
Too many Rare Boons ruining the balance of the game?
stiff stone
Yes, you would never get commons
velvet thicket
do the patch notes say how much they reduced the duo boon rate
i have had zero problems getting duos today but maybe i need to try a build that demands them more
waxen furnace
oh MY. I did NOT realize the new last darkness option let you reroll boon choices
I thought it'd let you reroll a potential thing to buy in a shop
waxen furnace
yeah, a missing bit of info is "how much was the duo/legendary rate actually nerfed"
rare salmon
@stiff stone I would argue that at a certain point, you shouldn't get Common boons anymore. That's why you upgrade.
waxen furnace
it may not have been much
rare salmon
@hard holly What were your mirror options?
hard holly
I only changed the dash, and for half of the runs the health one
waxen furnace
I'd argue against that @rare salmon. I don't see a reason why rares should be guaranteed. Having it be a choice of "either guarantee rares, OR some other useful thing" seems healthier
I don't see a reason why common boons should only be an option for new players
the new well of charon animation is sick, too
dense locust
The last two runs ive seen more duos and legendaries than before, but they were probably outside the norm
rare salmon
Did you switch the mirror?
tidal thorn
I havent.
lament coral
yep
waxen furnace
silly question - how does one trigger the fated persuasion reroll while on controller?
waxen furnace
I can't seem to navigate to it on controller, and have yet to figure out the key binding that triggers it
tidal thorn
Is it not the same button as normal rolling?
sage sorrel
So, have you guys found out how to unlock the Arthur Aspect of Stygius?
lament coral
keep talking to Nyx
velvet thicket
unlock guan yu and invest at least 5 blood in sword, eventually nyx will give it to you
lament coral
it comes up eventually, they just added a lot of new lines
waxen furnace
what was the normal rolling button? "Gift&Misc"? I didn't have it memorized and just looked at the prompt. I don't see a prompt in, say, the well shop menu @tidal thorn
orchid sonnet
Did they change the amount of iframes you get during a dash? I feel like I'm getting hit more by certain attacks than I used to when I'm dashing away.
waxen furnace
ah, a chaos fishing point! finally! love the freebie fishing boon
tidal thorn
Uh I changed my buttons so I'd need to check. Lemme see.
waxen furnace
aaaand my first chaos fish is a legendary fish (voidskate)
dunno if I prefer the nectar over the blood tbh, but I'm happy to get what was a very unattainable goal last patch
tidal thorn
Yeah, it's that one. @waxen furnace
heady zephyr
I thought they increased dash I frames?
tidal thorn
By one for the full dash.
orchid sonnet
Yeah... I might just be going crazy. Or I'm out of practice.
waxen furnace
3x fated persuasion used in a chaos boon run and I'm already in rull
*in love
did they up the legendary fish droprate? I've gotten three this run and I only just started aspho
also the new demeter chill counter is great
sage sorrel
Wait, fish have rarities? lol
tawny viper
Excalibur is amazing holy hell.
waxen furnace
if you have 250+ gold each time you end a biome, the new gold perk evens out. hm
it seems nice, think I prefer the ability to buy something early, though
green sable
lord of mercy things got updated 🙂
tawny viper
Almost everything got changed in some way, it's great
green sable
Ya im downloading it now cant wait to play it more
waxen furnace
this is the first major update I've experienced (joined about a month ago)
love how fresh things feel
waxen furnace
but does make me sad the next major update is so far away
lusty gust
Saw "Excalibur" instantly loaded up steam
tawny viper
Excalibur is amazing, the Fists are cool overall, and the mirror changes offer such a variety in run-style choices now.
waxen furnace
(as much as I understand why)
green sable
the gun got some much needed love and changes
lusty gust
I'm hyped for the King Arthur aspect but I really don't like using the sword :/
Quite conflicted
tawny viper
It makes sword good
green sable
i finished my very first run with the sword ❤️
lusty gust
Don't tell me what it does
tawny viper
I HATE Stygius by default, but Excalibur is insanely cool.
Plus it looks sick as hell 
tawny viper
I dont like the spear much either. That and Stygius were my least favs. Arthurs aspect is making me rethink that last part.
velvet thicket
excalibur seems like unusably bad to me as a big ol sword fan
hollow sorrel
Wow, I feel like zero effort went into fixing tight deadline
green sable
im still waiting on zag going "By the power of greyskull!" 🙂
lusty gust
Guan Yu is basically SS tier when you get like 2 daedalus upgrades
tawny viper
I play a bit more slowly with Excalibur, Crab. But it feels like I can play hit and run with it and cause it just hits so hard it works.
green sable
when my patch finishes loading i will give you my thoughts after some game time
velvet thicket
i haven't tried excal with forced overtime on but i assume the experience will make me cry
lusty gust
50 seconds 'til it finishes >.<
Loading up the game boys
Let's go
OMG
This is strong move is beautiful
unkempt pagoda
the game looks and feels really different after the update
i'm not opposed to it, but imma need a few more days for the whole thing to sink in
green sable
🙂
quasi moat
Question: is the demeter trial of the gods effect meant to draw in casts
it keeps eating mine
solid cairn
Sword in general is awful with FO
velvet thicket
life in general is awful with fo
solid cairn
I like forced overtime
rapid holly
I prefer FO in general
velvet thicket
using talos fist to pull in flamewheels and kill them seems not to damage me but only like 3/4ths of the time i really don't know why i sometimes get hit and sometimes don't
rapid holly
I dont like playing without it as it messes up my timing
kind cloud
WE BYKE!
waxen furnace
got demeter special in room 2 on a chaos shield run. figured stacking chill + burst at 10 stacks would do some serious damage
didn't see dem again the entire run 😦
lusty gust
Note to self: When using Excalibur remeber to get almost every Hermes' boon
velvet thicket
yeah hermes and athena seem pretty much required lmao
hollow sorrel
Forced Overtime is still bugged with the last boss
hardy crow
It feels so weird to play with one dash
hollow sorrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykR6xbA_LQo Hestia still apparently works. I failed the tight deadline with the bow run though. I was really hoping tight deadline would have been fixed.
waxen furnace
oooh interesting that the new wep has a dash-special too
lusty gust
It looks like it has a longer reach or am I crazy?
waxen furnace
talos seems super cool
interesting to have a short range attack lead to a cast bonus
does the magnetic bonus work on bosses too?
waxen furnace
I'd assume it would but just wouldn't pull?
kind cloud
fired up the game, well damn...nyx is a hot goth mama...oh my
waxen furnace
haven't seen her yet 😦 she be hidin
lusty gust
just die quickly and try finding here at the usual spot
waxen furnace
I have a 30 win streak, would rather not break that
wanna try out the new sword aspect before deciding which new aspect to pour bloods into first
distant basin
I have 20 blood saved up, and I just need to beat five more Pact requirements to get 10 more as a reward.
I am all set for this new update.
uncut plank
hey guys, prob been asked a million times already so apologies - I just finished downloading the patch. how do you unlock the new weapon
distant basin
Also, does anyone know if there are any prerequisites for getting the Legendary boons? I just know the one for Athena.
Finish a run. It should be there when you get back.
waxen furnace
@distant basin https://imgur.com/a/2pPiM0t this might help
info also available on the wiki
waxen furnace
credit to heartfulpeach I think
waxen furnace
there's a new fated list that gives 4 bloods too, which helps
that does remind me that I eventually need to do a run with forced overtime for those 10 bloods... and a few others too
strange bay
distant basin
Forced overtime is easy once you get the extra dashes from Hermes and that 100 percent speed one.
I have been doing them one at a time so that I don't have to deal with a lot.
rancid shore
You get used to it, but wow some of the tells are broken
distant basin
Got quite a lot of darkness, actually.
Around 1500, I believe.
The worst one for me was No Choice, and mainly because there was a hammer upgrade I needed to complete the Exagryph quest, and it's the one which got locked out.
waxen furnace
going to do a full alt-mirror run to get those 4 bloods
and try out fists at the same time
ready for the ragret
I want to try dem and artemis attack on talos fists first
hm.... arte attack on aphro special with talos fist sounds quite nice
velvet thicket
fav fists so far are dio aphro
hardy crow
Honestly it feels like melee rail so dio aphro with support fire is super fun
waxen furnace
talos is interesting... keep a gap between you, and it's damage + decent range for a cast
what interesting hammer options for the fist
I like that there's a healing option
attack ending in dash strike seems neat
attack dealing +5 per uninterrupted hit though... with arte/aphro, that feels like it should be the winner
I wonder if uninterrupted just means "in that one combo" vs "so long as you don't take damage"
velvet thicket
seems to be as long as you dont take damage or miss a punch but i may just be dumb
velvet thicket
there you go
hollow sorrel
The fists have the same problem as the chiron bow. They sound exciting, but once the enemy count goes up, it's clear their single target dps doesn't make up for their really terrible group aoe damage
opaque merlin
That... is definitely not the case, as long as you do a good job with positioning. Easier if you have some of the relevant hammers for the special
I may have gone overboard in my attempt to compensate for the slowness of the new sword aspect
https://imgur.com/a/JiYPdhX
waxen furnace
like chiron bow, dealing effective aoe damage with the fist seems to be difficult, but can be done with good positioning
velvet thicket
artemis special?
tidal thorn
Aphro.
velvet thicket
dang
waxen furnace
something like poseidon cast helps, I feel
hollow sorrel
I'll believe it when someone releases a 32 heat video with the fists. They only work at lower heats because everything works at lower heats
waxen furnace
aphro special + talos fists + arte attack + stacking increased attack hammer + chaos boon is leading to massive fist crits
hard holly
Actually fists AoE clear is fine
green sable
sounds very hands on 🙂
hard holly
You got Explosive Upper for that
Their weakness is that their damage is low and they are (relatively) risky
But the hotfix made their risk at least manageable
velvet thicket
doing a medium heat fists with poseidon zeus right now and having no trouble
velvet thicket
the boys are a lil weak but they're very fun
hard holly
I think the fists are boring personally
Theyre just a stubby sword as someone here put it
tidal thorn
How much blood to max Arthur?
hard holly
Much of that is probably just the fact that their hammers are largely boring and/or ineffective
tidal thorn
I love the Fist hammers.
hollow sorrel
I don't understand how the fists are supposed to do anything better than a nemesis sword
opaque merlin
Flying Cutter makes the fists a total blast to play
Though, to be fair, I like them to begin with
tidal thorn
I think all the fist hammers are good somehow.
hard holly
Explosive Upper is great
waxen furnace
they're more melee rail than stubby sword
tidal thorn
Some of the sword hammers are total skips.
hard holly
Continous Knuckles and the range up are decent
waxen furnace
I like the fist hammers so far
hollow sorrel
I got a giant group of teleporting skulls with high armor, and trying to hit a decent amount of them with the fists was way too much effort, compared to dash cancelling into a sword special aoe
hard holly
The armour piercing one is just meh (because you dont want base damage on your attack, but stuff like Zeus)
The other hammers are terrible
waxen furnace
did they stealth nerf sisyphus companion? didn't see that in the notes, only getting one coin each
hard holly
Several of them are straight up "dont pick this, you just make the weapon worse"
tidal thorn
wat
waxen furnace
I didn't even bother with the other summons though, not saying it isn't justified
tidal thorn
Which onees?
hard holly
The kick one
opaque merlin
That one is a blast
hard holly
Screws you over on several bosses and is just overall clunky and uncontrollable
tidal thorn
Kick one is fine imo.
hard holly
And the explosive afterwards
hollow sorrel
good luck trying to kick the chariot thesus
hard holly
Doesnt scale, and makes you way too vulnerable
Yeah the kick just breaks on several bosses
Even on regular enemies, it will get you hit by Flame Wheels at least
opaque merlin
yeah, flamewheels are the worst, haha
tidal thorn
I mean I just run from flames and let them blow themselves up.
hard holly
I like sword hammers more
tidal thorn
Every time.
velvet thicket
talos also lets you pull flame wheels into walls which is cute
tidal thorn
Or have a dash which damages.
hard holly
I mean that works, but its slow
tidal thorn
Speaking of dashes, Ruthless Reflex was fun.
hard holly
And if youve got yourself surrounded
Youre just screwed
Ruthless Dash is great
Im never gonna swap off of it
I just wish it had more of a zing to it
Yknow
Special sound effect and better visual representation
velvet thicket
i think ruthless dash is a big upgrade but we all need to band together and pretend it's bad so it will get buffed
waxen furnace
yeah I'd like a better indication of it having triggered
tidal thorn
lol
waxen furnace
I miss the second dash so much though 😦
hard holly
It is good, but it doesnt feel quite as exciting as a perfect dodge should be
tidal thorn
I was super happy when I got +3 dashes. lol
velvet thicket
i think they're planning to add more cosmetic touches later, there's been a lot of similar situations to that
dense locust
The range on rush kick is insane
waxen furnace
I tried the +rare% mirror choice to get it off the fated list, and I'm really, really feeling the loss of that bonus rare chance
I think I may keep the +epic% alternative, but I think I'll switch back to the rare%
dense locust
Yeah almost everything is common....
I lucked out and got epic hermes dashes
but having the level 1 boons be common hurts a lot more than the benefit of a extra duo or two
most of the time
velvet thicket
i think with the way duos and legendaries work on tiers that's never gonna be worth it unless i'm misunderstanding how the mirror upgrade works
dense locust
You sacrifice the chance of having a lot of your regular boons be at least rare for the slightly improved chance of getting duo or legendary, but before I swapped to the alternative, I was still getting 2-3 duos and a legendary per run
velvet thicket
like idk if i'm gonna have to get 3-4 boons before i get the legendary i want then i see no world in which it's better to get increased % on legendary and worse prereq boons. maybe if they massively nerfed the odds of getting legendaries or duos. but that would just be straight up not fun
rancid shore
didn't they lower the legendary/duo rate for that perk
tidal thorn
Is Gods Chosen just a higher chance to get gold laurels on doors than blue?
velvet thicket
i think they lowered it a small amount bc I haven't been feeling it in my runs so far
dense locust
athena call and ares dash are great with the mittens
idk i haven't really noticed a difference myself
waxen furnace
loving the darkness-heal mirror upgrade, though
dense locust
yeah the darkness heal is probably the strongest
although the alternative to the chamber reroll is very good
and keys give you more
its awesome for when you get chaos
i rerolled 2 commons and a rare into 2 epics and rare at chaos
tidal thorn
How many rerolls does Persuasion max out at?
dense locust
idk they are expensive
waxen furnace
really scared by stubborn defiance. making this run a lot more scary
velvet thicket
i believe it's 10
dense locust
stubborn defiance is the worst one imo
solid cairn
Stubborn defiance is not good
waxen furnace
but that's largely because it's my first fist run, and it's a risky weapon
solid cairn
Yeah it’s an active handicap
waxen furnace
yeah I didn't think it would be, just need it done for the fated list
solid cairn
Most of them are just non-factors
waxen furnace
so I figured I'd do it all on this first no-heat run for fists
velvet thicket
i feel like stubborn defiance should heal more than regular death defiance
solid cairn
Stubborn is only good for new players
dense locust
Wanna fight hades with 1 dd? Well nows your chance
dense locust
I got more duos without the mirror alternative than with it
tidal thorn
How much blood do you need to max Arthur?
tidal thorn
k ty
solid cairn
Imo ruthless dash, fated persuasion, darkness heal, and maybe the stonks money one are the only alternates worth going for
waxen furnace
+5 attack per combo hit + an extra dash-strike attack at the end of the combo with boosted damage + arte attack... this seems nice
solid cairn
The alternate for priv status is an honorable mention
velvet thicket
damage on first hit is good with hestia, and yeah status alt is just free damage on builds that don't go for status
solid cairn
Because it is very situationally better
solid cairn
But if you get the Demeter thing that gives your cast an additional freeze
You get priv in 1 cast
kind cloud
um...guysm...excalibur might be overpowered. lulz, i love it.
solid cairn
It’s not
dense locust
Try it with level 2 forced overtime, ive heard its hard
solid cairn
Falls off with forced overtime
velvet thicket
that and demeter dash make getting status way easier than it used to be
surreal jolt
So I feel like I hit a wall which I wasnt expecting, though I guess it was gonna happen cause its a roguelike. I'm just too weak to beat Hades, what do I do? Just keep farming keys and unlock more perks?
kind cloud
it's doing 300 damage from the back on base attack with no boons
kind cloud
i don't see how that's not overpowered. i think it's a matter of timing
and mentality
solid cairn
Nemesis gets that damage ez
kind cloud
like...i struggle with the bow which has a quick special
solid cairn
And it’s much faster
kind cloud
but excalibur's swings just mentally click for me in terms of timing
solid cairn
Aight well that’s you
Good luck when you’re stuck with dash attacking and the first hit of the attack combo against lightning fast enemies
tidal thorn
@surreal jolt It took me ~35 hours to beat Hades. More dashes help a lot, and a half decent build will make it easy.
kind cloud
"nemesis gets that damage easy"
does it? what boons?
solid cairn
Anything
waxen furnace
holy mother of god. dealing 1k+ attacks with the fists on crit is nutty
kind cloud
(nemesis is probably the aspect i've played least with)
solid cairn
Nowhere near broken
waxen furnace
does Patroclus have an alt item for if you don't have DDs to refill?
kind cloud
each weapon's aspect has an optimal build and fits different plays styles...shield of chaos is the generalized one (noob-friendly one)
tidal thorn
Naw.
waxen furnace
cool, thanks. chaos gate it isssss
velvet thicket
my weird excal change that I don't think anyone else would agree with is that i think it should have no dash attack but should continue the chain even after dashing. so that getting the thrust isn't basically a meme challenge
dense locust
This mittens are fun with 5 dashes, ares dash, and athena call
kind cloud
btw, mitten haven't unlocked for me...actually they haven't shown up at all. what must i do?
chrome geyser
is insane.
waxen furnace
yeah, I thought I'd just treat it as "a nice thing for non-cast builds", but I'm actually really liking it in general
dense locust
complete a run i think
tidal thorn
Just run once, die or complete.
chrome geyser
You must unlock all other weapons, finish (die or escape) a run and then use chtonic keys to unlock.
dense locust
oh
kind cloud
btw, i'm loving the new animations.
waxen furnace
huge QoL factor with the new casting method
kind cloud
@dense locust thanks
waxen furnace
how do y'all feel about the new boon art?
dense locust
you can just die too
velvet thicket
i think the boons are pretty but too small
chrome geyser
Imagine this; festive ice scintillating wine. Jolted. AND YOU CAST TWO EVERY FEW SECONDS
tidal thorn
I'm used to it now. I like.
dense locust
I wish they'd have a spacing between the border and the symbol
chrome geyser
I did not take any damage from the FB
dense locust
because sometimes it blends into the colors
chrome geyser
The new icons are just so bad.
velvet thicket
also zeus and hermes look really really similar
chrome geyser
It's not just the boon icons.
dense locust
I was surprised they changed them tbh
chrome geyser
The material icons seems to have been shrunk.
dense locust
I thought they were perfect before
chrome geyser
They were so nice.
tidal thorn
haelian is playing blindfolded...
kind cloud
btw, 58 heat is the new heat max (with hell mode) yeah?
chrome geyser
i think they wanted to answer "what exactly is happening that the olympians can give you powers"
and it's explained later.
kind cloud
Imagine this; festive ice scintillating wine. Jolted. AND YOU CAST TWO EVERY FEW SECONDS
@chrome geyser um...wut? lulz
surreal jolt
@tidal thorn Im at 13 hours so far and I got hades down in his 2nd phase to half hp. I had a decent build going with the fists but I was getting too much aphrodite and ares useless boons to have a proper defense. I got luckty and got a super pom power up and a pink cast short range attack had -defense.
waxen furnace
@kind cloud it's a beautiful lining up of dionysus cast + a lot of good duo boons for it + the new casting scheme
chrome geyser
The new casting scheme is awesome. But feels like the cooldown is way too short for some powerful casts.
dense locust
What did they change with the cast?
chrome geyser
But it makes hera pretty useless with that.
rancid shore
stygian soul?
kind cloud
hmm...i'll need to see what the new casting is. thanks @chrome geyser
chrome geyser
So there are two ways of casting. You either get +2 casts; and they work like normal; dislodging on the ground etc.
kind cloud
btw, i'll ask again...is 58 the new max heat (with hell mode)?
waxen furnace
@chrome geyser useless? I feel like it makes it somewhat consistent (hera bow)
it definitely reduces your burst
but it means you don't need to painfully rush in to gather to burst again
chrome geyser
Or you switch it to stygian soul; which makes your casts not appear overworld at all. They still get lodged in enemies. But you just regenerate the casts within 3 seconds after you cast.
No more collecting it back.
dense locust
lol 5 ares dashes with vicious cycle
waxen furnace
if you get some chaos/arte ult going, then the bloodregen is so nice
tidal thorn
@surreal jolt I took that long too because I tried EVERYTHING. All the boons, hammers, etc. If you use the God keepsakes to force a decent build, you should be fine. Use the wiki to find out how to get what, and definitely try Hermes for extra dashes. Those help so much on FB.
dense locust
oh thats what you mean
velvet thicket
i'll have to test it but i think at least with lightning fog hera i'd prefer to have more out vs having them more often since they're dealing persistent damage anyway
dense locust
yeah im digging the recharge
chrome geyser
I think the best part is it has built in instant return.
dense locust
doing mittens with ares cast and all the accoutrement plus 5 ares dashes
waxen furnace
I think it's very important to distinguish that it's quite a bit better than instant return, silver
dense locust
with the recharge cast
chrome geyser
You can consistently deal huge damage with casts if yours is good. Makes it work more like a third basic attack rather than burst.
waxen furnace
the bloodstone does not actually return, a new one regenerates
(as far as I've tested it)
waxen furnace
an important distinction imo
chrome geyser
Since they regenerate.
Asterius had a lot on my earlier run.
Also; athena is amazing on the mittens
dense locust
so if you get artemis legendary, you get 4 rechargeable casts
chrome geyser
I think so
chrome geyser
At least works that way with chaos' aditional casts.
dense locust
i can keep up invul for like 2.4 out of 5 seconds
chrome geyser
Did athena call change?
dense locust
but im still at the lower heats for the mittens
if you level it up it consistently increases by .4 seconds
waxen furnace
talos is making ares cast kinda good even w/o hunting blades tbh
dense locust
at least for the first few levels
waxen furnace
being able to pull enemies into ares cast, while buffing ares cast damage... this is fun
velvet thicket
ooo i hadn't thought of that
dense locust
what is talos
velvet thicket
mitten aspect
chrome geyser
The mitten aspect
near horizon
https://i.imgur.com/JKxdMMO.png is there a cap on damage reduction? 🤔
dense locust
lol i love that everyone is calling them mittens
chrome geyser
ANd i think there is a hard cap of .8
near horizon
that would explain it 
still very very beefy
chrome geyser
I mean they look like comical cat claws; which I am all for it.
dense locust
im doing ares cast with demeter aspect and epic artemis special and ive got 2 very solid sources of damage
tidal thorn
I need to try Talos with a cast. I kinda ignored it my first run. :x
chrome geyser
I want to make the magnet work; but just feels like underwhelming.
Well maybe because poseidon refused to give me flourish.
green sable
holy smoke things have changed omg
dense locust
ffs i have the thing to increase duo chance and i've gone through like 5 boons and no duo...
green sable
its like a whole new game
tidal thorn
Yup.
green sable
glad i chose the gun 😄
green sable
nope haven't unlocked it yet
chrome geyser
If you ask me; the duo/legend chances are lower; but those two alternative upgrades are trash.
torn bison
cuz im feeling like thast the only way its gonna work
dense locust
I've heard complaining here makes it happen in game so here it goes
boreal prism
Have you been picking boons that enable duo boons?
torn bison
cuz that weapon in high heat is so bad cuz of how slow it is
chrome geyser
Having in general epic/rare boons is much more dps than having lots of duos.
And I managed to find 3 duos without the new 2 boon rarity stuff.
waxen furnace
I think the epic replacement is kinda nice tbh
but I haven't done enough runs to really feel the difference
so far, it may just be confirmation bias
dense locust
Yeah my two runs without the alternative netted me 2-3 duos and legendary both times
waxen furnace
the rare replacement is totally not worth it for me, so far
chrome geyser
I find it very bad. My DPS is so low without epic boons that i get bored due to length of rooms/run.
dense locust
thank zeus for the new boon choice reroll
waxen furnace
but the epic replacement... I'll play with it for a little while longer at least
yeah it's so, so nice
chrome geyser
I want a third mirror alternative. Reroll nyx conversations.
tidal thorn
This blindfold run is hilarious.
tidal thorn
RIP first room of Asph. lol
dense locust
yeah i just saw that lol
tidal thorn
I'm impressed. Tartarus went really well.
rancid shore
strong: yeah im digging the recharge
also strong: the new cast alternative sucks
waxen furnace
really? I'm loving the cast alternative on non-cast-focused builds
dense locust
Lol I was being sarcastic, but an ares cast build does benefit from having three casts over 1 recharge
ebon thistle
omg i forgot about playing hades in so long, time to do a run
dense locust
But i was doing a hybrid build and it was a lot of fun
velvet thicket
i am absolutely gonna give myself carpal tunnel if i can't suppress my reflex to spam click the fists rather than just holding the button down lmao
vital karma
Hey may I ask: why didn't I see Twin Fists at courtyard?
frail bear
you gotta do a run before they show :)
leaden island
does anyone have some tips for boons and other stuff for the new blade aspect?
frail bear
also, quick question, has anyone here figured out how to trigger the aspect of arthur? i really wanna use it
well it seems you might know how lol
leaden island
haha yeah
frail bear
i have no idea what criteria they use to get the historical aspects
i felt like i randomly got the guan yu one
tidal thorn
You get GY from winning once.
velvet thicket
you have to have guan yu unlocked and at least 5 blood invested in sword
dense locust
frail bear
oh okay
ebon thistle
wait did I actually play hades again the day of the new goddess
frail bear
in that case, time to invest more in the sword
leaden island
you need to talk to Nyx, spend at least 5 titan blood on the Stygian blade in general (not any aspect in particular)
waxen furnace
5 blood invested in any sword aspect?
leaden island
yup
ebon thistle
played the game at the perfect time :)
waxen furnace
ah okay, so maxed poseidon will be enough. neat thanks
leaden island
you can have the 5 TB all around
tidal thorn
And they added a bit of dialog to Nyx, so it might take a few runs.
leaden island
but you need 5 spent on the sword
frail bear
gotcha
luckily I'm doing really good considering how little i've played the game so i have way more ambrosia than I have any need for this early on, so I should have plenty of access to titan's blood
leaden island
yeah nyx will have an exclamation point with jagged edges around the speech bubble, and then shell tell you got something cooking for you
or is that DMC Nico
frail bear
i do have to wonder what historical aspects they'll use for other weapons
like.... what historical firearm wil exagryph become lmfao
leaden island
Little Mac for the new brass knuckles
dense locust
Fun fact: The voice actor of Zag is also the composer of all of the music
leaden island
he also voiced the main human guy in Pyre
tidal thorn
And the singing voice for Orpheus iirc.
frail bear
he also does a number of other characters, yeah
dense locust
Yeah he's a talent
frail bear
yep! there's a certain point where he starts
but yeah should be obvious given his myth and role lmao
leaden island
i read that as Zag for some reason
frail bear
i wanna hear zag sing good riddance
waxen furnace
things like Ravenous Will get a fair amount better with the new casting scheme, also
dense locust
I haven't played pyre or transistor. If you had to choose, which one would you play first
rancid shore
Funner fact: Zag's voice actor is also Skelly
frail bear
transistor
easy
pyre is great but it's admittedly pretty repetitive in the second half
vital karma
He sang the myth of Orpheus in PAX concert
frail bear
but if you like a large cast of really compelling characters, pyre's got you covered
leaden island
i think pyre had far and away the best writing, including character depth
frail bear
really depends on what you want. I think transistor's narrative is super compelling, and is one of the best i've played in a game
vital karma
pyre-- a basketball game
frail bear
yeah i think pyre's writing is stronger but the narrative of transistor is really excellent
but it makes sense, the games improve with time
leaden island
aesthetically and stylistically, and philosophically too Bastion will always be my favorite
rancid shore
transistor has really fun mechanic mixing if you're into that
smoky oasis
so next update our Zag becomes Thanos?
viscid bolt
How do you do a perfect catch on fishing
rancid shore
pyre is more of a VN with occasional space jam segments
dense locust
I was leaning towards transistor so I've made up my mind. Ultimately i'll buy them both but there's only so much time
velvet thicket
transistor is so good except for the part where it's like 5 hours long
frail bear
yeah pyre is like nba 2k meets a visual novel
which is like
my favorite way to explain it to someone
sacred idol
Wait, why do people think Golden Touch is bad
dense locust
It's only 5 hours long?
frail bear
because it's just objectively hilarious
yeah when transistor came out i beat it on the first day lol
leaden island
@viscid bolt you know like animal crossing? you have to wait until the catch bobs under the water and stays for just a moment
dense locust
oof
sacred idol
It's one of the best new mirror upgrades.
velvet thicket
it has a TON of replay value but yes it's p short
dense locust
i have 350+ hours in hades
sacred idol
The snowball is real.
velvet thicket
although so is bastion
dense locust
true
rancid shore
Wait, why do people think Golden Touch is bad
because it doesn't fit the way they play, and they think that because of that it's bad
smoky oasis
the previous games don't have infite game play
sacred idol
I mean a lot of the new stuff IS kind of bad, but golden touch is god tier
frail bear
i had like three hours in this game before a few days ago because i thought early EA wasn't super fun and now i'm obsessed and I've put in almost 20 hours in the past 4 days even though it's midterm week 🙃
smoky oasis
I like Hades because you can play infinitely
gray lintel
looking at dis first time
sacred idol
The regen cast is disappointing, it's a great concept but is undertuned
dense locust
I will say that i tried golden touch at 32 heat and found myself needing to spend gold all the time
waxen furnace
golden touch seems like a really late-game centered choice
gray lintel
i like how the greater reflex alternate version makes movement speed things more useful
like a certain sword people have complained about
dense locust
But i like the new mirror options
sacred idol
It's just too many downsides compared to three casts.
quaint fern
i usually save a bunch of money for the last shop, so golden touch with charon's purse at the beginning is just free money
dense locust
I disagree about the new cast
leaden island
do ppl not like the new sword?
frail bear
i havent used it yet, i'm trying to unlock it ;-;
dense locust
I think it allows for the cast to be more utility
frail bear
i really wanna use it though it looks more fun than the other sword forms
I'm not a huge fan of the default special so I'm interested
waxen furnace
not only does Golden Touch mean you have a smaller nest egg to get stronger with early, but it's only really worth it if you don't buy too much
leaden island
in my opinion it totally is more fun
dense locust
throw out a zeus cast and get things jolted
plain leaf
I love the new sword aspect myself
waxen furnace
you need ~250g at the end of each biome for it to be worth it
sacred idol
New cast not only cuts your burst output by 2/3, it ruins Hera and Poseidon...
gray lintel
so the interesting thing about the new cast is that it still sticks into people
dense locust
It's not for every build
waxen furnace
not spending 250g is big
rancid shore
That's kind of the point though
dense locust
That's a good point @gray lintel
gusty nexus
Excalibur hits hard but I'll have to experiment with it more to get a better feel for it
rancid shore
You're meant to use it much differently than the flat 100g
plain leaf
also TIL the new sword aspect is pretty decent to get good trove rewards https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492723824140484609/687148573313597452/unknown.png
gray lintel
you can't burst anymore though so like
sacred idol
@dense locust It's good in concept for that reason, but the downsides are a little too harsh
dense locust
You can consistently have the boss slowed by 25% or deal 50% damage
gray lintel
against low health enemies you can't chain bursts
waxen furnace
@rancid shore yeah, it's heavily lategame oriented, and as a hoarder I love it
dense locust
against them
frail bear
is anyone else afraid that new cursed blade is really broken btw? i got cursed blade + flurry strikes earlier and it just felt like i dashed around and held m1 and i just won
gray lintel
but honestly I like it if your playstyle avoided casts because picking up the reloads is ugh
waxen furnace
but I'm not sure I do better with it
velvet thicket
@sacred idol i don't think it ruins poseidon, poseidon is still very strong even if it's just +50% cast damage
sacred idol
It halves the features of Poseidon still
velvet thicket
the negative synergy is definitely a feels bad though
gray lintel
i'm honestly using the new cast 100% because I hate having to pick up the gems and for better usage vs. bosses :p
smoky oasis
poseidon is kinda unreliable though
rancid shore
I've definitely been able to buy out the entire styx shop with it, playing as I usually do. (As in immediately on arrival, not after the tons of money you get in the tunnels)
sacred idol
And completely butchers Hera
smoky oasis
u need good cast to make full use of it
rancid shore
That was pretty rare before
dense locust
If nyx isn't there again im about to unload a torrent of complaints
sacred idol
If you use Hera it's just a negative perk
waxen furnace
@sacred idol you're right in that hera and poseidon might not be great with the new casting method, but I'm not sure people are talking about those situations when talking about how they like the new casting scheme. It's on other weapons that the casting scheme is something I love
sacred idol
1/3 damage and no passive
waxen furnace
I think you're focusing on the wrong use case, felis
sacred idol
@waxen furnace it's annoying to have to go back and forth and flip your mirror just to use it
gusty nexus
Still deciding which Fist Aspect is my favorite
waxen furnace
on poseidon, I'd want the two extra casts
smoky oasis
I think Hera is the worst weapon with this new cast
digital patio
Did Ambrosia get removed or are they just not displaying because I ran out?
sacred idol
There's no convenient way without using a loading screen over and over
signal viper
fastest final boss victory i've had yet https://i.imgur.com/T4eQ4p8.png
waxen furnace
on most other things, I'm realllllly liking the regen cast
sacred idol
@digital patio latter
sacred idol
I tried regen cast on uh
Rail
Eris rail, 10 heat to get titan blood and get my "fist unlock run" over with.
gray lintel
er
dense locust
ffs how many times do i need to talk to nyx to get the sword aspect....
sacred idol
I love the idea of it.
sacred idol
It's just undertuned.
rancid shore
Regen cast is good as a support, but as a cast focus it's not great
frail bear
what are y'all's thoughts on the new version of the backstab that gives you a damage increase on undamaged foes
waxen furnace
but "it's bad on 2/20 of the game's aspects" is a very, very far statement from "it's bad"
frail bear
it feels pretty weak to me?
dense locust
I love it
frail bear
like, if you can get a single backstab you're already on rate
velvet thicket
alt backstab is good on hestia but i think that's about it
dense locust
If you use a big damaging source like eris rail rocket bombs
frail bear
if you can backstab twice you're doing objectively better since the damage increase is the sama amount
sacred idol
My point is more that the regen cast has a little too much downside to be on par with the other
rancid shore
The backstab alt is undertuned for sure
frail bear
oh that makes sense
gray lintel
oooh
sacred idol
Since if you do happen to get the cast boons
sacred idol
You do less damage with them
That's the other thing. You may not intend to go for a cast build.
velvet thicket
i think backstab alt should either be double damage or at minimum it should proc twice on armored enemies
sacred idol
I accidentally got the triple ice wine duo combo without aiming for it at first
dense locust
The new mirror upgrades do a good job changing little things to fit your playstyle better
gray lintel
stubborn defiance is weird and I don't know how useful it is
frail bear
crab i agree
dense locust
Trippy shot with the new backstab ult
frail bear
my biggest issue with it is that it's just objectively awful v bosses
dense locust
alt
waxen furnace
for those runs where you accidentally fall into a cast heavy build, sure, it might be a downside
digital patio
I've been running with Stubborn Defiance all day just to get a feel for it, and it's fun with Guan Yu but I'm lukewarm so far
thorny edge
its probably good if you die to mob rooms all the time but not good if you struggle with the bosses
waxen furnace
on most other non-cast-focused builds though, it has its perks
dense locust
The tricky part about the new backstab alt is if you have the 2 blue shield heat on
waxen furnace
I would mind a buff but it's not clear to me that it's undertuned, yet
rancid shore
aren't some of the mob mechanics just baby versions of the boss mechanics? if you die on a mob room, you're probably gonna die on a boss room
dense locust
when do i get my 4th sword aspect...
frail bear
you need to pump 5 titan blood into sword
then nyx talks to you apparently
i'm working on that rn lol
sacred idol
The new backstab is good with single rocket or bomb as well, but it is fairly undertuned @velvet thicket
dense locust
Ive got it all maxed
gray lintel
Family Favorite is honestly kinda tempting 
gray lintel
cause okay A. yeah you'll probablyu only get like maybe 6 different god boons so that's like, what, 36% increased damage
but that's always on
gusty nexus
thorny edge
there's a cap of 4 gods per run
sacred idol
@waxen furnace Which is why I would like to see it slightly buffed to be less debilitating. Not a ton. Just a little to make it less of a downside when you do get cast builds.
dense locust
I'd say 4
gusty nexus
That was a fun run
dense locust
You can force more than 4, can you not?
faint sonnet
Yo these fists are NUTS.
https://streamable.com/syg3w
sacred idol
@dense locust Does the first hit perk get eaten by blue shield? Or does it work after blue
thorny edge
probably
rancid shore
you can force 5 gods with a trinket
velvet thicket
people are making a case for consistency that i don't get. if you have a build that can get privileged status you are almost always going to have it active. however the alt is good if you have a build that won't like crits for example
sacred idol
@gray lintel 4 god boons normally. To get 5+ you need to save Authority rerolls for Styx and get 3 gods, forcing the game to roll new gods.
gray lintel
hmmm
still nice if you don't want to work towards getting two status effects I guess
dense locust
The first hit perk applies extra damage if they are at full health
sacred idol
The new family favorite perk is overwhelmingly for Hunting Blades and crit builds.
frail bear
what's the benefit to forcing five gods?
dense locust
so your first two attacks will remove the first two shields
sacred idol
Family Favorite is the only benefit