that was pretty nice
#h1-builds-and-combat
rancid shore
sacred idol
They scale like rail attack on attacks
stuck bough
any builds for the fists?
sacred idol
And special works with anything that's good for moderate hit rate and highish base damage
Not doom
Well
Doom works.
Not on demeter though.
Dem aspect doesn't benefit doom, Talos will
Can try merciful end on it
Athena attack? Literally just punch all projectiles away
Artemis, Demeter, Dio, Zeus all work on the basic attack
Then pair whatever your favorite duos are.
cobalt lava
Like your deflecting shots from characters in dragon ball
dim rapids
that's what i'm doing for now lmao
sacred idol
Good solid damage output and utility
cobalt lava
Or Dio and aphro
sacred idol
Can do Doom special with Merciful End though
cobalt lava
Or Demeter and ares
cobalt lava
Mixed with dio
hard holly
Like, Ive got a Demeter Aspect with Artemis crit special
sacred idol
That sounds fun times.
hard holly
And the damage still feels low
sacred idol
@hard holly It attacks faster than the Rail with 5 more base damage
So if it feels low, then the rail attack is even worse at base
hard holly
Rail has Flurry Fire, and its ranged
gaunt cave
Are the new boons that you get when you trade them for already upgraded ones supposed to keep the levels from their precessor?
hard holly
Plus, Hestia is the broken Rail one anyway
gaunt cave
Oh sweet. Didn't know that.
sacred idol
Also, this is already as fast as flurry fire, has the Long Knuckle hammer
solid cairn
Arthur aspect is pretty dumb
solid cairn
It’s just so slow and strong and huge it’s wild
kindred bolt
it completely overshadows the crit aspect
gaunt cave
Is there a specific channel to report bugs?
kindred bolt
i think tech fixes, or you can f10 in the game
sacred idol
@kindred bolt It won't make you clear faster than Nemesis, but it is good at what it does
Aka make the sword viable for slower, more deliberate playstyles.
kindred bolt
nemesis aspect is one of my worst aspects with how i play, i do better with everything else
solid cairn
Nemesis is just not good lul
kindred bolt
i don't think it is in comparison to everything else
i just won 2 runs in a row with gauntlets with relative ease tbh
solid cairn
I love melee weapons and don’t enjoy fists
sacred idol
Nemesis is WR holder at 32 heat, so it must be good in some way objectively...
But it isn't equally good for everyone
hard holly
Ive not had luck with finding death defies
sacred idol
That's the main thing
dim rapids
wait holy crap
hard holly
Anyway, at this I can safely say, Gauntlets arent fun and I dont think theyre good either
kindred bolt
if im gonna try 32 heat, ill take a shield
dim rapids
nemesis is easy 32 heat with right build
solid cairn
Guan yu used to be like top 3 choices for 32 heat but not anymore ig
kindred bolt
why is everyone obsessed with 32 heat anyway? im just grinding 1 heat at a time for bounties, i haven't unlocked all aspects yet
gloomy bone
Aspect of Talos is probably going to get nerfed
solid cairn
32 heat is the highest heat that unlocks something
sacred idol
@hard holly *they don't suit your playstyle so you don't find them fun
dim rapids
athena dash + merciful end
sacred idol
Big difference
kindred bolt
what does it unlock?
sacred idol
Doesn't make them objectively bad
solid cairn
To tell the truth I don’t actually know exactly how much worse guan yu is
kindred bolt
and won both runs with dying once
without*
i got the heal on special, it was beautiful
gloomy bone
I'm loving playing it before it gets nerfed to kingdom come. Talos + Posedien means the fists just can be spammed over and over again. Not sure how it'll do against Hades, but it'll be nerfed for how easily it cleans up regular enemies
turbid needle
Cinder, did you see that Nemesis has the 32 Heat WR?
solid cairn
Yes
sacred idol
I doubt it will need much nerfing
rancid shore
why is everyone obsessed with 32 heat anyway?
you don't like the skelly statues?
dim rapids
huh
hard holly
Thats the thing
glad flume
Yeah quake cutter isn't preferable
rancid shore
Should they?
solid cairn
99% of players don’t care about fastest times possible
kindred bolt
i take my time all the time
rancid shore
Maybe it didn't happen to this time, but they don't have to?
kindred bolt
i never ever play time games
sacred idol
I mean... I like the fists and hate the sword.
kindred bolt
or speed run anything
turbid needle
But if it's used to get the fastest time possible, faster than anything else used, it's not bad.
sacred idol
They're different feeling to me
dim rapids
probably because sword has an easy rhythm
kindred bolt
before it was nerfed
dim rapids
you can clear most rooms with special > dash strike > dash strike
and repeat it till eternity
fists... don't have that kind of option
probably why people are not liking it
sacred idol
@glad flume fixed nonscaling means it's not really viable...
kindred bolt
ya but you can upper cut people, like in street fighter
hard holly
Nah
sacred idol
...I cannot play sword effectively.
hard holly
Sword doesnt have an easy rhythm and I never use its specail
solid cairn
I used to main nemesis and after guan yu came out I never looked back
hard holly
I like sword because its high risk high reward
solid cairn
The Arthur sword is my favorite now
turbid needle
That's just deliberately handicapping yourself unovven.
kindred bolt
i haven't even unlocked that yet
hard holly
Higher risk, higher reward
gloomy bone
Unlike the sword, Talos Fists allow for spamming of the special. It'll only be an issue on bosses probably
hard holly
I mean yeah, I suppose
serene nexus
I always liked combo-ing nemesis Special and Attack so the fists work perfectly for me.
hard holly
But I like the handicap, so 🤷♂️
solid cairn
Maybe I’ll give nemesis another chance
serene nexus
But it’s a very YMMV thing though
solid cairn
Now that guan yu is nerfed
hard holly
But the reward just isnt
serene nexus
Also, how are you guys liking ruthless dash? I think it’s pretty neat.
solid cairn
Imo the fact that guan yu was nerfed and Hestia rail wasn’t is a little dumb
serene nexus
And you pretty much want to always go for Hermes dash anyway so >_>
kindred bolt
i haven't even unlocked hestia rail, i thought it would be boring
serene nexus
It really isn’t.
kindred bolt
reloading over and over
turbid needle
Yeah, Guan Yu didn't need the nerf.
serene nexus
But you need to upgrade it fully in order to see how good it is.
kindred bolt
i also have 0 blood right now because i unlocked 2 fists aspects and the new sword aspect
solid cairn
I could see a rework
oblique tusk
so highest possible heat is now 57?
solid cairn
But a straight nerf was not warranted
kindred bolt
ill max it next i suppose
solid cairn
And this is a pretty bad one
turbid needle
No, it was fine.
serene nexus
Binding reload key onto a aux mouse button makes Hestia rail a lot smoother
oblique tusk
58 on hell mode
turbid needle
@serene nexus Did that months ago and it was lifechanging.
solid cairn
I mean I wouldn’t be against a rework but I wouldn’t have asked for one either
turbid needle
Guan Yu is still fine.
kindred bolt
i don't think ill ever do hell mode, it already takes forever to unlock stuff
turbid needle
It's just less cheesy now.
kindred bolt
i really think they need to give us a few more prophecies with blood
chrome geyser
I fully agree with @serene nexus
turbid needle
Can't invuln your way through the game anymore so now it's worthless?
chrome geyser
on hestia with gaming mouse
dim rapids
actually with privileged status nerf
solid cairn
Tbh I wonder if some of the alternate mirror upgrades could be an indirect buff to certain aspects
dim rapids
it might be better to just go for yolo all boons lmao
glad flume
This is a single player sandbix type game there is no leaderboards or competition whatever is fun is fun
You're just against yourself
chrome geyser
Ehh. I wish we had that heat (disabled inv on heavy damage) on regular mode. Hell mode seems to be never able to go back and play easier mode. Which is not that good for me.
rancid shore
This is very much not a sandbox game
rancid shore
You can play how you want, but it's definitely not that
solid cairn
Being able to choose to not have health regen between rooms is a buff for guan yu definitely
glad flume
It's what you make it
chrome geyser
I think the better term would be single player rather than sandbox. I agree with that there is no competition or leaderboards.
solid cairn
can you use the new fated authority to reroll daedalus hammers
hollow gale
Lost to Tiny Vermin. That was amazing 😁
hollow gale
Don't know. Haven't had enough time to learn it's paterns
Very jumpy and dashy lil bugger
rancid shore
i thought it was easier
rancid shore
but it's really fun watching it zoom in max overtime
dim rapids
didn't they remove it?
rancid shore
a new tiny vermin
dim rapids
and i just met it in my previous run
river jacinth
what do you guys think about tempest strike on arthur
not worth it because they get knocked too far away?
solid cairn
Which one is that
crude tangle
@rancid shore
rancid shore
hi, what's up
crude tangle
Oops
solid cairn
Can you reroll hammer upgrades with the new fated authority
crude tangle
Misclicked haha
rancid shore
oh haha
hard holly
Its always Aphro or Artemis ,the others are too little damage unfortunately
Also man I really dont get it, Gauntlets feel riskier than any other weapon, but also just do less damage?
lament coral
Tiny Vermin actually feels more like a boss than a mini boss
takes more punishment that any of the other Styx mini bosses
serene pewter
scarlet kindle
zeus is really good with gauntlets
although i tried for legendary and the game just refused to ever give me zeus boons
quiet arrow
i've had a lot of success with zeus and artemis
hard holly
Im on both
quiet arrow
artemis/aprhodite duo is p nutty on the fists too
hard holly
Still feels insanely risky
scarlet kindle
id imagine dionysus is good with it too
hard holly
Steel feels like much lower damage
The hammers also dont seem to be good
The explosive Dash Upper is good
river jacinth
any on damage effect is just very good by default
scarlet kindle
i like the long range one
quiet arrow
there's one hammer that's similar to the rail one where dmg increases per continuous hit
hard holly
That one seemed alright
scarlet kindle
the one that gives you way more basic attack range yeah
scarlet kindle
helps alleviate the issues with melee
hard holly
The others seem outright bad
Only a little
Youre still kind of a weaker Flurry Fire Rail
scarlet kindle
yeah
rapid pier
hey dont know if is the right channel, but how do i unlock the new mirror talents?
lament coral
do you guys find some of the new mirror talents to be really lackluster?
scarlet kindle
yeah
lament coral
for example, Fiery Presence, you deal +50% damage to undamaged foes
that means you deal 50% more damage once
summer linden
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/531858019730849802/687055414298279956/unknown.png "minotaur's toughness" for having 400 HP?
lament coral
and the default talent allows you to deal 50% more damage from the back all the time
also, what does undamaged mean? Damaged health? Damaged armor?
wise ibex
http://prntscr.com/reg6nx both 1st run and clear with the mighty murder mittens, divine strike was a beast with this one
torn bison
the new sword is cool af but way too slow for higher heats
lament coral
what slowdown effect?
lime estuary
@torn bison This
torn bison
u get buffered so hard in elysium vs the spears and shields
lime estuary
It’s mainly the really big swings that end the basic attack combo
torn bison
its like super cool but like high heats it feels liek u playing with lag
lime estuary
And how they carry through your dashes
dim rapids
wait so
lime estuary
If the really big swing was a charge attack you hold down the button for, and the basic combo was faster, I’d be much better
dim rapids
just want to clarify
hard holly
God dammit
dim rapids
do you get bounties for clearing at 0 heat?
hard holly
Its been a long time prior to this patch that I have lost any run
torn bison
yea for sure
hard holly
And now Ive lost my fourth Gauntlet run in a row
dim rapids
weird
hard holly
Theyre just so bad
torn bison
i was hoping the big swing was a charge
dim rapids
even for fists?
dim rapids
i distinctly remember 0 heat runs having bounties
lime estuary
@hard holly what heat are you on?
silver seal
I think u get bounties per weapon for 0 heat until you actually get a clear
Then it switches to 1 heat
hard holly
Usually I play at higher heat and the question is not "will I beat this run" and more "how fast"
But the fists elude me
hard holly
I was on electric fists in the last run I lost
Damage wasnt high enough for the risk I was taking
Died to armored spear guys
torn bison
really i just kept pomming my static thats why lol
serene nexus
Also... the new Mirror dash is so awesome XD. It’s really powerful on Nemesis aspect
dim rapids
ok i'm probably just gonna try doing a 0 heat run to test bounties
finite violet
i found aphro on fist's attack + hammer with the dash attack +60% and +5 per interrupted hit does a stupid amount of damage
lime estuary
Elysium as a whole really punishes melee playstyles
torn bison
the fastest i couldf get excalibur to go
serene nexus
The knuckles really shine when you get a duo boon that synchronized your special and attack
rotund wagon
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788632363419664412/5CD5C10210067251693527C76D1B935194B49845/
I will never touch those 3 skills again
those being the Darkness Vitality, the regen defiance thing, and the one that doesnt give you 2 dash
dim rapids
it's probably a bug
torn bison
was doing hit hit dash immediately and then big hot
finite violet
i just did my fastest run with the fists of sub 25 mins it was nuts
but i feel you do need a very specific set up with it
serene nexus
Like, for example, Merciful End or the aphro/Ares duo
finite violet
ruthless dash? im loving it
serene nexus
It is so amazing XD
finite violet
+50% dmg pairs well with fists
rotund wagon
I hate it
serene nexus
Got my fastest run time ever at 20 min
rotund wagon
I usually use dash for dodge and repositioning
serene nexus
Yeah. It’s a play style change.
I use it to abuse iframes mostly and to reposition.
serene nexus
My first fist run was Aphro attack, Athena special, Dionysus dash
rotund wagon
20% increase for 2 secs is not worth it for me
finite violet
if you nab hermes + dashes it mitigates ruthless dash's distance
serene nexus
If I had put on privileged status on it the damage would have been insane
finite violet
but otherwise it's just adjusting to only having one dash and learning when iframes are
oh i had priv status on it was fantastic
rotund wagon
that would require you to meet Hermes and lucky enough to get his boon
serene nexus
And let’s be honest. You’ll want to grab extra dashes the moment you run into Hermes anyway
hard holly
Oh wow the fists are actually worse than I thought
serene nexus
He’s guaranteed per run
rotund wagon
Fist is fun
serene nexus
Have you tried Demeter aspect?
rotund wagon
anyhow I'm off
hard holly
It was the closest to being a successful run
finite violet
i've been using max zag aspect on the fists tbh
the punching speed + dodge is nice on it
serene nexus
I have level 3 Demeter aspect on it for now. I have 12 blood that I’m hoarding for now though.
finite violet
but i like playing fast and aggressive
hollow sorrel
RIP skelly companion
hard holly
Yeah Im trying it with level 3 aspect
lament coral
hm? Skelly is finem chu on about?
serene nexus
I mean, my heart still belongs to Nemesis Aspect
hard holly
But at this point Im close to just throwing in the towel
serene nexus
But fists are nice
lament coral
I did a Talos fist run, it's kinda weird
serene nexus
More Importantly a new weapon opens up a ton of resources.
lament coral
I want to punch and cast
hard holly
It just feels like you take a huge risk to have the lowest damage of all weapons
hollow sorrel
They took away his hiding spot on the final boss, and when I used it on the hydra fight, he died in the time it took me to kill two hydra heads
lament coral
but the damn magnetic effect doesn't work on bosses
hard holly
At least when I play the point blank triple shot bow build
lament coral
nor does it work on some non-boss enemies, like the rocks in Asphodel
hard holly
Im obliterating anything in my path
finite violet
there's still a buff on the special tho
hard holly
With fists? It takes forever to kill anything
serene nexus
I mostly use Than summon.
finite violet
talos buffs the special dmg so the magnetic draw in doesn't work by the special still hits hard
lament coral
Talos buffs attack and cast
finite violet
i think its just playstyle bc i melted final boss with fists in less than two minutes
serene nexus
It’s really useful on multiple enemies and bursting down Theseus on phase 2 instantly is really nice.
hard holly
I have no idea what kind of build you had for that to be possible
Because I have had pretty fine-tuned builds
And they didnt do that well
lament coral
I was on 5 heat
finite violet
aphro attack+demeter special + artemis crit pressure point+ more crit dmg
hard holly
Still much lower than triple shot bow
lament coral
so it's not an indicator of how good Talos fist is
hard holly
While still much riskier than it
finite violet
and the hammer of dash attack at end of melee combo and +5 per uninterrupted hit
i was also abusing the ruthless dodge a lot for that extra dmg
serene nexus
Same
lament coral
I also didn't have Privileged Status because I was doing the new talents prophecy
hard holly
Thats the dodge Im using on as well
Idk, looking at the damage with confidence turned off
I think the base damages are just too low
lament coral
Ruthless dodge seems suicidal against Hades
finite violet
ah ye i have priv status as well
finite violet
nah dodging hades with ruthless dodge was fine
serene nexus
Just think of ruthless dodge as a dash attack enhancement
lament coral
I passed on +1 dash from Hermes in favor of +20% attack speed and Hades immediately made me regret this decision
finite violet
the iframes are enough for his big spin if you time it correctly, and his tell is p ez
serene nexus
Yep.
finite violet
the only thing i was wonky on dodging was his super fast spear thrust
serene nexus
But you’re supposed to always get extra dash from Hermes anyway so >_>
finite violet
which caught me out a few times
hard holly
Whats the base damage on Hestia shot again?
lament coral
maybe, I'm too used to having double dash and +40% FO by now, going back to normal was really weird
hollow sorrel
You don't always get an extra dash from hermes though
hard holly
Oh wow, yeah no wonder Gauntlets feel so bad
Demeters Aspect does about that damage, but much less often
Since you need 12 hits
lament coral
how is dodge better? Did you not see the talent that makes 80% of darkness restore your HP?
serene nexus
I didn’t like that perk
hollow sorrel
And you're supposed to use dash 1 to avoid potential spear thrusts, and dash 2 to avoid the spear spin. Having 1 dash is the worst idea in the game against Hades on 40% FO
serene nexus
Because I never take darkness. Especially with the new fated authority
lament coral
but new FA doesn't let you reroll exits
solid cairn
ruthless dodge seems like one of the better talents
lament coral
it rerolls boons and well items
dim rapids
ok so
do your first run with 0 heat on fists
else you lose a free 0 heat bounty
pretty sure that's the case now
lament coral
you don't lose anything, unless there's a bug
solid cairn
never said it was the best
dim rapids
if you start a new fist run immediately with heat
you straight away jump to 1 heat bounty
and 0 heat bounty is gone
lament coral
are you sure? Because normally, if you exceed the heat gauge you get the reward from the previous level
rancid shore
yes
0 heat is a different state from the heat counter
if you skip it somehow, you lose out
lament coral
that sounds like a bug to me
I'm on hell, and fists started at 5 heat, as they should
twilit venture
Yo, has anyone felt Thanatos being broken as hell?
solid cairn
how good is golden touch compared to deep pockets
solid cairn
it seems like it's way better
rancid shore
you should probably edit out that word the bot doesn't like in your feedback @twilit venture
twilit venture
oh, which one? ._.
rancid shore
the one after wrecked
rancid shore
yeah it'd probably get deleted otherwise
lament coral
Touch is good if you're hoarding
twilit venture
i'm still pretty annoyed with that thanatos thing though. he had like, 10+ kills over me
solid cairn
I usually do that
dim rapids
huh
you don't get iframes when you use your summon or call anymore?
that's a stealth nerf
timber turret
UM
lament coral
huh? I thought she can't hit you
solid cairn
wow my feedback already has 4 downvotes
kindred needle
@solid cairn It's probably a good sign that our experiences are totally different, huh?
rancid shore
I think it's the too good bit
solid cairn
I was gonna change that
rancid shore
I wouldn't say it's too good. It's good but like I wouldn't nerf it for it
lament coral
@solid cairn you're undervaluing having a hundo in your pocket from the get go
you can hit the Tartarus shop and get a hammer or a boon that'll prop up your build from the start
rancid shore
pro-tip get the best of both worlds by going coin purse and golden touch
kindred needle
In my experience my runs are defined more by the stuff I can use my gold with along the way, and by the time I make it to Styx it's just fine-tuning.
yeah, also what ZeppMan said
lament coral
of course, on lower heat, you could just start with a Money Bag and rake in the dough
you want specific boons from specific gods for your specific weapon's specific aspect at higher levels
rancid shore
I don't think I've ever chosen to go to the shop in Tartarus. I've always rolled with whatever I got and saved money until Styx
lament coral
so you start with a god keepsake
kindred needle
Not just starting with no money, but also being dis-incentivized from spending any of it, which lowers the value of shop rooms
lament coral
and use the bag if you feel comfortable
solid cairn
ok yeah deleting that post because what I said was dumb
rancid shore
It's not really fair to say one is better or worse because they're different things with completely opposite uses
solid cairn
which is what they should be
kindred needle
Yeah, if it works well for you vs the other option and my experience is the opposite, that means it's good that there's an option between the two!
lament coral
also, do you guys know if the new talent that increases the spawn rate of gold laurel exits overrides NPC encounters?
it specifically says boons, hammers, and poms
kindred needle
Too early to say with my sample size, but I had that thought on my last two runs. it certainly felt that way.
lament coral
I can't say with only 10%, but if that is the case, I would probably never use it again
rancid shore
maybe it just lowers the spawn of gold and hearts?
solid cairn
I'm starting to realize that a lot of the new talents are underpowered
rancid shore
we'll have to wait until someone digs into the files 🤷
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/673173892537253898/687066716584280107/unknown.png Hmmmm more damage vs sustain 
solid cairn
stubborn defiance is a cool idea but not implemented in the right way
novel python
I have the last gauntlets, the extra hits on special ones
rancid shore
breaching cross is great, draining is ok (better than cursed slash), knuckle is good
kindred needle
My last two runs I never saw Patroclus, which was super weird to me! So I was wondering if one of the room upgrades was messing with that in some way.
stoic crest
so is it me or is stubborn defiance kinda.... busted
I mean
you get to die once per chamber
this is almost strictly better for anything except a particularly tough chamber
solid cairn
wrong
rancid shore
it's only strictly better if you die in regular rooms a lot
solid cairn
this is my logic
toxic tusk
Demeter aspect with Deadly Flourish and the Rush Kick hammer is basically overkill. So good
solid cairn
which is bad
lament coral
if a boss tosses you in a blender, you're dead meat
dim rapids
so uh
solid cairn
good players want all of them for hades and styx
stoic crest
hmmm
dim rapids
how do you clear chariots with fists?
lament coral
@dim rapids dash through walls or get long fist hammer
solid cairn
I can tell you that guan yu with stubborn is pretty much impossible
lament coral
but yeah, it's awful
lament coral
same with the sword
there's just no safe fighting option to deal with boom chariots
rancid shore
P sure for most of the new mirror things there shouldn't be a better or worse objectively
rancid shore
They're meant to be opposite things. Obviously now some are overtuned and actually are in most cases, but difference is probably the goal
lament coral
@rancid shore deal +50% damage to an enemy once or deal +50% damage from the back all the time
hmm
rancid shore
depending on how you play one of those will be better for you?
dim rapids
lmao with talos aspect
rancid shore
i know i never backstab so i'd take the initial hit
dim rapids
and athena special
or well timed athena dash
you can do chariots
but other than that i think you can't
solid cairn
can you get 100% dodge
rancid shore
but if you're set on maximizing damage, you'd go for the backstabs
lament coral
you never backstab, that's fine, but you do accidentally end up hitting enemies in the back
lament coral
it does work on em, they just move quickly
rancid shore
Obviously now some are overtuned and actually are in most cases, but difference is probably the goal
lament coral
how do you dodge elite big chariots with 1 dash?
hard holly
Through them
rancid shore
Probably different from how you would with 2
hollow sorrel
you don't. It's the worst idea the game has ever had
hard holly
Nah
lament coral
they just turn around on the spot
turbid arch
@hollow sorrel As far as I can tell, Zagreus actually has some form of super armor when using his 3 hit chain.
Not sure if itr is tied to any conditions.
I was able to stand in my circle, enemies literally tickling me while I was still able to go for the full hit swing combo without being knocked out of it.
Special can still be canceled out at any point by enemies
hollow sorrel
does super armor mean I don't take any damage? Because when I'm on +100% enemy damage, and usually at least +50% less healing, I don't want to get hit
turbid arch
Super Armor means they can't flinch you while you attack
Think it is a fighting game term.
hollow sorrel
That's completely useless to me
They do way too much damage to trade hits
because there's way too many enemies when the enemy count is increased
I'm not sure why Guan-Yu was allowed to scale up to high heat, but Arthur just gets to be bogus on high heat
lament coral
gnarly
dim rapids
did they nerf the appearance of boons
i'm literally at styx with only an attack and a dash
hollow sorrel
And not being able to reposition the aura is terrible, when you have enemies bouncing/running around a lot, and most definitely not staying in the aura
woven hill
Got both Bronze Skin and Different League which was great
hollow sorrel
They want to encourage the +10 boon chance option, I guess
chilly gust
is there some way to force steam clouds to sync? i was playing earlier today on my laptop and now i'm not seeing the current run (in tartarus) as a save on my desktop no matter what I did (restarted steam on both machines, loaded up game on laptop, quit again, etc)
wicked hull
you might just be unlucky - I've done two runs since the patch and haven't noticed a decrease in boon appearances
lament coral
@chilly gust is the save correct on your laptop?
chilly gust
yep, just loaded it for like the 4th time. walked right into tart
rancid shore
Is it possible you left the mirror on reroll boons before you turned on budget cuts @rugged estuary
chilly gust
but it won't sync to my rig
lament coral
is Hades updated on both PCs?
I'm downloading what seems be the 4th update for Hades today
dim rapids
also aspect of talos kinda sucks on armored enemies
they immediate attack you most of the time lmao
demeter is probably the best
lament coral
just dash through em
that's what I did: suck em in, dash through, backstab, dey gon
chilly gust
yeah so i just noticed that @lament coral, i'll try again in a few
lament coral
yeah, I don't know how fists are gonna work with +40% FO
lament coral
what slowdown effect are you talking about?
velvet thicket
there's a ton of hitstop every time you special and i think talos makes it even worse
not like a gameplay problem it just feels terrible lmao
lament coral
hitstop? Do you mean the notable recovery after you do the special?
velvet thicket
i mean the few frames where everything stops moving
lament coral
???
are you talking about not being able to attack after the special or something else?
cause I did a run with Talos fist and that was the only annoying thing I noticed
rancid shore
On special hit it slows the game down a little bit for a short duration
rugged estuary
@rancid shore That might be it, but not being able to use my authority from keys is still wrong
lament coral
I did not notice any kind of slow downs from using the special
though, I did turn off screen shaking
rancid shore
I mean like if you can't reroll rooms, maybe it's the boons you're able to reroll instead? Idk just checking if that could be why you can't use the authority
lament coral
I also did not notice any improvements to visual fidelity
did a rail run with Zeus and explosive hammer, couldn't see anything still
rugged estuary
@rancid shore I will try, but the icon is definitely authority
and cosidering the 12 upvotes on the feedback, I appear to not be the only one
lament coral
you get boon rerolls if you have the boon reroll talent instead of the door one
from keys
lament coral
are they not the same in the mirror?
rancid shore
oh my b i was thinking of the colorful one
lament coral
you mean the green pyramid next to the talent in the mirror?
dim rapids
wait what
rancid shore
Also, there is an noticeable slowness on special hit regardless of screen shake
dim rapids
they removed the corner walls in the final boss room?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
rip skelly cheese
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/673173892537253898/687072338440749093/unknown.png?width=903&height=508 Killing freeze vs legendary?
lament coral
legendary
rancid shore
i'd go legendary
lament coral
you could get KF later
lament coral
is that Zag fist?
novel python
Demeter
rancid shore
not blind rn tho \o/
lament coral
@rugged estuary the new Budget Cuts disables bottom 3 talents
novel python
Kept the boon rarity ones though
rancid shore
oh no what happened?
novel python
F
turbid arch
Game crashed, tried to restart, and my file was empty.
lament coral
that means your FAs won't work, because you do not have access to the mirror talent itself
@turbid arch hold, do not do anything
turbid arch
Holding
novel python
Have a little faith
lament coral
rancid shore
yeah i'd wait and see if QA replies and if they can help
dim rapids
check your hades save file
under saved games
also, probably the most uneventful first fists run ever lmao
turbid arch
Already did that. Did not work sadly.
dim rapids
no special + cast and very little boon rooms somehow
lament coral
did you try both files?
rancid shore
I wish that title was King Fisher instead
dim rapids
if you use steam it might have cloud
lament coral
could you check if the dates on the saves and backups are different?
novel python
Did they just increase the appearance of fountain rooms? Just got 2 of them on this run
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/673173892537253898/687074248451555396/unknown.png Does the special hammer stack with demeter aspect's increase hits on cast?
turbid needle
not if she has anything to say about it
velvet thicket
(it's fun tho)
hard holly
But its really impractical since it just carries you forward and you cant control it during the flight
finite violet
really? i loved the rush kick
novel python
Well I don't really finish my attach chains because of the gap between the attacks
hard holly
It will get you hit even more than regular fists
novel python
I just dash attack before it ends
finite violet
it was a great gap closer and coupled with doom it was good at applying the debuff to a pack of enemies in one go
novel python
I just use it for the burst tbh
hard holly
Demeter shouldnt be using Doom on special
ancient rampart
yo what boons are good for the arthur aspect
literally cant find any gods worth using on it
hard holly
Same as always, Aphrodite and Artemis attack
novel python
I have Athena's cast though, shouldve taken something else but ohwell
athena's special*
finite violet
when in doubt, take crit
hard holly
Alright, lets see if run 5 ends just as miserably
If so, Ill just try modding Fists to be fun and effective for me
dim rapids
oh dang permanent record is sick
rugged estuary
@rancid shore Nope, can't reroll boons either, so it's not that. And @lament coral if that means disabling the bonus reward from keys is intentional, that doesn't feel great
lament coral
@rugged estuary it didn't work with Budget Cuts either
cuz you know, you don't have the talent
rancid shore
good to know thanks
rugged estuary
I am very sure I used my fates from keys while using budget cuts
vagrant mirage
so, trying the new sword with Crit attacks and got a bunch of chaos damage boosts on attack, and good hammers for backstab damage.
Become Unstoppable
dim rapids
@rancid shore apparently you need to exhaust all earlier dialogue with nyx first before anything
regarding unlocking excalibur
because i still can't unlock it lmao
lament coral
you too, huh?
rancid shore
earlier like pre-patch or
lament coral
they must've added a ton of new lines
rancid shore
nyx won't even show up for me anymore. mom being hella rude
thorny edge
nyx just isnt showing up in the house for me
vagrant mirage
I only had one run before she told me about it, so might just be bad house rng
rancid shore
I got to talk to her once. Then meg stole the convo chance from me, and now she's playing hide and seek
vagrant mirage
havent had those yet
dim rapids
also i get why fists are so clunky now
if you use all 5 punches you can't dash or do anything immediately after
thorny edge
I kinda like the fists but it feels way weak once you reach elysium and styx
rancid shore
what are the special and dash buttons for controller?
thorny edge
Bottom button for ddassh and top for special
dim rapids
also good luck trying to get to anything over lava in asphodel lol
thorny edge
you can rebiinddd of course
rancid shore
Ah so the default binds aren't good for dash upper on that either
hard holly
Yeah, the fists fall off hard
rancid shore
Splendid
hard holly
Theyre like sword except less fun and without ways to scale into the last regions
vagrant mirage
Fists seem nice to me so far,
but yeah lava lakes suck, especially if you got a bad cast for it
the percent heal on special is great on Styx, rats usually need only one to get a heal off
hard holly
Though, we got a mini-update it seems
They no longer do the freeze thing, and you can more reliably dash out
novel python
I've just thought about Dem's call helping me stack cold faster for the damage burst
kindred needle
It's not worth another feedback post, but I do wanna note that I met that God one last time in that run, and he once again offered me 2/3 of the same boons.
novel python
I've only used fists on 0 heat atm but they seem p good with the range hammer
split scaffold
Personally I'm loving the fists. Talos aspect is really nice so far.
novel python
Rocking Demeter atm
split scaffold
Yeah
scarlet kindle
oh theres an animation for killing freeze on hades now
at least i think thats new
thats cool
split scaffold
the play for fists seems to be Demeter or Dionysus
scarlet kindle
zeus fists are also good
lament coral
@kindred needle had the same problem with rerolls on Hermes
hot plover
how do i get knuckles again? havent played in a while
hard holly
Yeah Im not sure why, but I cant seem to win with them
lament coral
only 1 boon changed
hard holly
Its probably because I play very aggressively
kindred needle
I think Dionysus was so mad I didn't pick him in the trial he decided to make sure I only had options between Trippy Shot, After Party, and Positive Outlook. And I'd be happy with the festive fog cast if I didn't already have Exit Wounds from Artemis, dude! 
hard holly
And theyre too weak to be used for that
kindred needle
@lament coral well, hopefully it's an easy bug and not some major annoyance!
lament coral
I hope they didn't intend for it to work that way
dim rapids
legendary/duo boons feel ridiculously hard to get now unless you go for the new talent
not sure if it's worth sacrificing the epic though?
kindred needle
There's no way it's intended. There's so much potential Boon diversity in this game, and it feels so lame getting locked in a reroll loop.
dense locust
My first run through to unlock the knuckles I got 3 duos and a legendary
dense locust
Maybe it was just a bad run. Gotta up that sample size
or maybe i got super lucky, although it did take about 2-3 boons after I had the prereqs, and I think I upped the rarity at the well shop
vagrant mirage
dio fists is amazing, especially if you can get his love duo
constant poison stacks melt people
calm sandal
Is it just me or is the standard attack kinda bad
like it can apply status effects ok but the damage itself is terrible
I got a hammer upgraded normal attack and it did less damage at less range than teh special
dense locust
Well, i've only had half a run, but I like that you can hold down attack, and then right as the 5th attack happens, you dash and it resets
vagrant mirage
its fast attacks make up for that (Kinda)
opposite of a heavy beatstick, where hit procs are the best way to go
sage vale
||arthur|| and Artemis is ridiculous damage
calm sandal
I like how it plays, but I just wish the main attack did more damage
dense locust
It feels like a melee rail
calm sandal
also I wish the special went off more reliably after the final hit in the punch combo
dense locust
@sage vale Do you unlock the aspect by winning a round with sword?
sage vale
no
hard holly
The base damage is alright, but it means you have to use boons like Dio or Zeus
And unfortunately it does both significantly worse than the other fast attacking builds
Since it doesnt have the neccessary hammer
calm sandal
I wish that it didn't stop you from acting after the final hit in the 5 hit combo
sage vale
||you need to unlock other aspects of the sword and sooner or later Nyx will have a prompt for Arthur ||
calm sandal
It would feel so much better if you could instantly dash or special
dense locust
@sage vale Well I have the others, so i just wait for the rng then
sage vale
putting some more titanblood into the sword might help but don't quote me on that
dense locust
The fact that dash special is now officially a thing is something I have to get used toon the controller. I used it on the sword a lot but its awkward on the controller
I have all aspects maxed so its probably rng
glacial heath
If you check hades-spoilers there are pinned instructions on how to get the aspect. If you've done it, then its just rng
scarlet kindle
you can just die until you get it
scarlet kindle
excalibur is really good
scarlet kindle
only weak point is that its slow and you get most of your damage from the last attack in a combo
dense locust
I had run last night, guan yu artemis special and aphrodite for clean rend, charged skewer, and I was critting for 2.5k with the special
had 2 chaos +80% special damage each, and bouldy for +4% 😄
sage vale
yeah but here i'm running on just 2 boons
dense locust
oh jesus
sage vale
without chaos
dense locust
well sounds like balance is in order lol
dense locust
did they change how damage is shown?
dense locust
okay so its not just for the mittens
sage vale
yeah it adds up if you're doing a lot of small hits
turbid needle
Yes, damage from the same source stacks, so you see how much damage you've dealt in a short amount of time.
sage vale
rail and mittens are affected basically
dense locust
neat
sage vale
i can't run mittens
dim rapids
one big explosive charged demeter special from fists is like 950 right now for me
lol
dense locust
Maybe chiron bow too
dim rapids
the hotfix is in already
dense locust
Or just don't special lol
dim rapids
restart your game
dense locust
oh
vagrant mirage
crit sword is just playing a 2-hander build from dark souls now
dense locust
Okay thats what the update was
sage vale
so is it removed now?
scarlet kindle
the lifesteal special hammer is actually really good
since its the only lifesteal that doesnt cripple your hp
vagrant mirage
yeah,
makes clean up on small rooms a nice snack too
dense locust
Im in the middle of a run so I have to finish it first before the hotfix applies I think
dim rapids
explosive dash upper is the best lmao
combine that with demeter for 5 insta explosions
turbid needle
It's pretty sweet.
scarlet kindle
its almost way too good in styx with all the rats
dim rapids
literal shoryuken
scarlet kindle
the lifesteal hammer for fist that is
sage vale
status update: 2551 crit in tartarus
scarlet kindle
it heals 2% per enemy you kill with the special
hard holly
Explosive Dash Upper is sick, yeah
sage vale
i added in Clean Kill and right now my chaos boon for attack
vagrant mirage
by ashpodel depending on what you are using you can hit 3000 or so
dim rapids
lol
sage vale
activated
dim rapids
the new asphodel rooms are pretty small
sage vale
gonna see how it fares now
dim rapids
but they're ridiculously good trove rooms
sage vale
i might 2shot the fury
dim rapids
i got a 149 darkness trove from explosive punch
dense locust
lol
hard holly
Its basically the only way the weapon is any good
Shame its still way below the damage a Triple Shot bow could do while requiring way more setup, but hey
dense locust
Making dash special a thing is going to make me adjust to how I hold my controller
vagrant mirage
I beat her in less than ten wide swings,
and apart from one chaos attack boost all I had was art's on attack.
Little did we know Arthur was a giantdad
lament coral
what was hotfixed?
dense locust
The lag from the mittens when you use demeter special
I think
demeter aspect i mean
sage vale
okay 8 hits for Meg
vagrant mirage
strong hits strong bits
turbid needle
can someone explain me the point of fiery presence ? I'm not getting it
vagrant mirage
I'd say find hermes and shake attack speed out of him
dense locust
$30 would be nice
vagrant mirage
$30 dollars, neato
dense locust
SGG really added a unique element with this real money resource
scarlet kindle
fiery presence is good with any strong single attacks
or if youre bad at backstabs
(like me)
dense locust
Can the mittens special crit with demeter aspect?
scarlet kindle
i believe so
dense locust
No no no, you can find real money in the game
scarlet kindle
actually yes it does crit
dense locust
Okay i guess i got unlucky there
dim rapids
does anyone know if artemis' dash strike works for fist's dash upper?
scarlet kindle
i had artemis fluorish and it doesnt say it crits, but you get randomized damage
scarlet kindle
since its a ton of smaller hits that can crit, rather than 1 big one
dim rapids
15?
hard holly
Wait
sage sorrel
Hi guys, what in your thoughts is the best aspect for the fists?
hard holly
The Shades now cheer for Zagreus if he beats them?
scarlet kindle
demeter imo
hard holly
Demeter, far and away
dense locust
draining cutter or concentrated knuckle
vagrant mirage
dunno yet
dense locust
does knuckle have a limit?
vagrant mirage
and yeah, they cheer
scarlet kindle
what do they do
i dont have them memorized by name yet
hard holly
The damage of the weapon is still low with Demeters aspect
Talos is much lower than even that
dense locust
+5 damage for each uninterrupted hit is knuckle
vagrant mirage
Low damage hit hit rate
hard holly
Knuckle adds 5 damage for uninterrupted hits
It does not stack
Infinitely
Its basically the 5 hit combo, then it resets
hard holly
I mean even with that in mind, its low damage
scarlet kindle
draining cutter is really good for a special build
dense locust
so it just adds 5 damage?
hard holly
Nah
scarlet kindle
5 base damage
dense locust
yeah eff that
Idk if demeter special can crit. I've got 20% chance and the last 5 charged specials saw no crits
scarlet kindle
it doesnt say when it crits, but it can
hollow sorrel
I think I'm done with trying to get Arthur to work with forced overtime.
scarlet kindle
demeter special probably doesnt say it crits because it's up to 7 small hits that can each crit, but the new damage text adds it all together
dense locust
isnt it 5?
scarlet kindle
2 base, then +1 with each level
dense locust
ah
oak owl
vagrant mirage
think they lowered its max, to around 20
dim rapids
apparently zag has new dialogue if you get a duo boon
he exclaims in excitement or something lol
hard holly
Ok, post-hotfix Fists are so much better
hard holly
The damage is still fairly low, but theyre also much less risky now that you can actually dash out of stuff
hollow sorrel
what do post-hotfix fists do differently?
dim rapids
so apparently the dash kick attack
makes you run face first into thesus' chariot
and then you eat a crap ton of damage
hard holly
That weird slowdown on the special got removed, but more importantly
dim rapids
lmao
hard holly
Youre not locked into animations anymore
dim rapids
never taking that again i guess
hollow sorrel
So I can safely do damage in small increments of 20, because it's still too slow to use the full special a lot of the time?
hard holly
I mean you should be using the dash special mostly anyway, but
You can dodge out of the aftercast animation
That was the big one
solid cairn
Which fist aspect is considered the best so far
hard holly
Demeter
solid cairn
Not the magnet one?
hard holly
Demeters gives the weapon damage, which it badly needs
hollow sorrel
I was hoping it would be Talos, since that could at least break apart the giant clumps of super buffed enemies
hard holly
Talos has nice utility, but the damage is sorely lacking
hard holly
Idk, Eris is still outclassed by Hestia
waxen furnace
which of the new darkness boons have y'all been using?
solid cairn
The mirror stuff?
solid cairn
The darkness health one
solid cairn
Alternate fated authority
waxen furnace
Fated Persuasion and Dark Regeneration seem the most appealing to me so far
dim rapids
wait
solid cairn
Yeah those are good
summer linden
dang i am bad with aspect of arthur
unkempt pagoda
first clear on the new update!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187458596559257600/687091032516460630/Hades_00037.png
summer linden
i like the fists tho
waxen furnace
I would love higher duo/legendary chance, and higher chance of boon/hammer runes, but would be sad to lose the 40/20% rare/epic chance
solid cairn
Pour one out for guan yu
slow bane
I bought the scrying pool with the belief it would show results.
iron shale
my lord i love the demeter fists so much
with artemis on special
waxen furnace
whats wrong with guan yu?
unkempt pagoda
@slow bane only if you win
solid cairn
Spin doesnt go through walls anymore @waxen furnace
slow bane
I like using the Artemis boon Cover Fire. You know. The one the one that like shoots arrows when you attack cast or Speical?