With special
#h1-builds-and-combat
green compass
manic ermine
Chiron maxes at 7 compared to 9 on the regular
sacred idol
Less total damage, more single target damage outside of literally touching range.
green compass
I mean at what point does the chiron combo do more then just default power shotting
Single target
sacred idol
I think at max rank for standing power shot, 60 vs 70
rank 4 for dash power shot, 40 vs 50?
it was 10 base, right...?
sacred idol
yup
manic ermine
Max bow dps without hammers that give you primary multishot is repeated special in melee
sacred idol
however, you do have to factor in that you can get off three chiron shots per primary shot tag, I guess
yeah, high risk though
manic ermine
won't dispute that
sacred idol
If you are going with melee bow, Zagreus for 10% crit chance.
green compass
Melee bow?
sacred idol
not zeus, hits too fast
cooldown 0.3 seconds
less risky way to apply demeter chill or dionysus poison
green compass
Is weakness a one time application?
green compass
I normally like going aphro trinket start
Then artemis second biome
Then broken spearpoint
Not sure if it's better to swap the artemis out for a dionysus one
sacred idol
works out fine for chiron or melee bow use
aphro attack, artemis special, heart rend
green compass
Ok I'll give that a run after school
If I can get the duo that is
It randomly shows up in either boons if I have both correct?
sacred idol
yup
Skull rooms nerf the chance though, be careful
overrides the chance at 10% for legendary/duo
sacred idol
do use them anyway
I mean
more boons > fewer boons unless you have a buttload of poms.
but between a skull room and a normal, normal can get you more duos?
same with the styx shop, 150 gold best
green compass
I mean I still need certain resources
sacred idol
No, the little skull that indicates elite enemies or miniboss
dim abyss
ah
sacred idol
the high difficulty rooms
dim abyss
yeah, gotcha
dim abyss
i cant remember if erebus rooms have skulls on them or not, they do have heads on em tho
green compass
Or nectar if I'm low
astral magnet
they're handy for double keys early on
green compass
What hammers does chiron bow want, are there ones that screw you over like spear's bouncing?
lament coral
extra special arrows is the only really relevant thing for Chiron
bouncing attack and special charge could mess up your targeting
unkempt pagoda
i’d get relentless barrage first
secondary upgrades don’t matter too much, but i’d get something that would increase your attack damage, like the perfect shot or distant shot hammers
sacred idol
Flurry shot makes it easier to tag.
lament coral
some like Poseidon's
sacred idol
If you just want quick tags
green compass
I've tried that once
sacred idol
Special charge is very good if you're using Artemis special.
Or otherwise relying on raw damage from the Chiron arrows
lament coral
the problem with the charge is the need to stay still
it basically turns the bow into a shotgun
massive damage but best used up close
sacred idol
I guess it's an issue if you're playing on high Forced Overtime.
green compass
I'm not touching time limits until the bounties force me to
lament coral
FO is increased enemy speed
lament coral
it gives a massive amount of heat but if you're not quick on the uptake you'll get slam dunked by everyone
Elysium in particular will be hell because of exalted going to mach 10
along with the bull
prime knoll
I am consistently surprised by how inverted my difficulties feel on the higher heats. Elysium is usually pretty straightforward (the same tactics as always), but the Furies and the gol' dern Gorgon-Smashy combo usually burn a DD or three... Compared to them, I don't feel like Elysium is as much of a bump up. I hypothesize that it's boons. By Elysium, you usually have some kind of build that works, whereas you can get to the hydra and still only have like... two or three boons.
dim abyss
oh god the teleporting gorgon head mini boss straight up murders me
lament coral
it's depends on the weapon
dim abyss
like nothing else in the game takes DD stacks off of me as consistently as that level with heat
lament coral
it can but you need to angle it properly, otherwise it'll hit
green compass
How twitchy is it
silver seal
it's not that hard
green compass
Well that trivializes the second phase for me
That's what always seems to chunk me
lament coral
there's a bit of a delay before the beam starts doing damage, just face the beam with the shield put up
people usually get hit because they're not facing the beam or move before it ends
prime knoll
the shield block feels degenerative. It's a NOPE button that gets around so many things- whereas like you mention the sword languishes at high heats because you have almost no way to avoid taking damage.
green compass
How's spear at higher heats?
lament coral
both of em are poorly designed
green compass
People seem really divided on forums
lament coral
Zag spear and Guan Yu are fine
well, GY is kinda busted
but you need to be proficient with it
green compass
Nice, I personally use zag but that's just because I don't have them all unlocked
green compass
Spear was the first weapon I brought hades down with
Wasnt sure how it scaled with heat
prime knoll
GY is indeed good. the ability to restore hp (even at the cost of lower total hp) gets around a lot of things. I don't play with the time limit, and I don't mind kiting, though.
even without the lifesteal, GY spin feels more useful
sacred idol
@prime knoll Middle Management Megagorgon is truly hell, I agree... even without any heat besides Middle Management it already becomes the hardest miniboss.
prime knoll
I think I'd like Pacts of... Something Nice. I find that the high heat runs are very challenging, but many of them feel like false attempts when you get basically nothing good in Tartarus and Asphodel. A little more control over your start would go a long way toward enjoyable, yet highly challenging and stressful 20+ heat runs.
sacred idol
Negative heat when
prime knoll
Yeah, the other minibosses don't feel anywhere close to those two
sacred idol
For that pathetic amount of heat...
I feel like that means they're just overtuned
although minibosses just kinda need more heat for that one size kills all option
prime knoll
Exactly. I'd take a hit to heat to... stack on other... heat.
sacred idol
They kind of feel harder than the Hydra at times
EM hydra, the most dangerous thing is frankly the arena.
Gorgon and Stompy Boi? They're hilariously tanky for so early on, the Barge of Death is a complete joke relative to them, and I think stompy hits nearly as hard as Hades
plus petrify, lul. enjoy getting stoned RIGHT into getting squashed
atomic mist
I've started to avoid miniboss rooms in Asphodel just because of stompy boi /on high heat that is
sacred idol
I would need to see the damage numbers, but if I remember my last painful encounter with them, getting whacked literally hurts like a Hades spin
plus the blast wave lmao
prime knoll
I think it's that the petrifying rocks are the least visible projectile in the game, and the stomper hits near and far. And then there's smoke all around just for funzies.
atomic mist
It's super hard to dodge. And then you need to get hits in at some point like ??? how
prime knoll
oh yeah, and the stomper is on the ground for like 3 frames. 😂
atomic mist
I never thought I'd hope for murder boat to show up. It's so much easier in comparison
prime knoll
oh my gosh yes
It hadn't actually dawned on me til now that that is the other 'miniboss'
primal cape
Murder boat used to be so scary when the yellow skeleton bombers would die and drop 3 bombs you’d have nowhere to run to at times
atomic mist
Murder boat used to be insane but now it just feels like a regular room fight
prime knoll
I feel like those bombs aren't too bad. I can usually dodge through them. They sometimes seem to trigger inconsistently, though.
dim abyss
murder boat's biggest danger is not being able to see half the screen, especially with middle management or jury duty making it have more spawns
bc there's so many bombs
atomic mist
Yeah that was something hahah
hollow sorrel
I remember purposely using Bouldy on the murderboat, to give myself a semi-safe part of the boat, because the items Bouldy drops can block stuff
prime knoll
I'd love to see a timeline of each run to look at when and where I lose HP, trigger DD, get new boons, etc.
primal cape
Also middle management (not sure if that’s right buffs elite counters) the room in elysium with the butterfly spawner, until you kill it, it periods spawns elite warriors and the butterfly spawner can dash around
It’s a nightmare
silver seal
if you dont have much dps by then it can be really hard
lament coral
that's just bad RNG or choices
choices can be dealt with, RNG is unavoidable
like not getting a single attack boon by Elysium
on Zag bow
hollow sorrel
There is a cap to the butterfly mini boss' spawns
If your dps is low, literally just work on the butterfly first.
I found out about the cap, on the game where I had to fight the butterfly miniboss with the Chiron bow, but the game literally didn't let me have a special boon before that. It's tough to get dps lower than that
sacred idol
@prime knoll Without the trap heat or FO, it is viable to kite stompy boy into lava and have him melt. With either of those, welp, better be OP or restart o'clock
I had lower DPS!
Zagreus shield. Poseidon attack.
That's all.
For two biomes.
...and I'd taken chaos cursed attack before the hydra and miscounted
placid silo
silver seal
that seems great
scarlet urchin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/616979133691592704/682663257688899828/unknown.png
Well then.
Overtime is not the heat level for me. Also managed to get through this by the skin of my teeth...
green compass
Are there viable summons other then bolder?
I really like the ideas of dusa and meg but I'm not sure if it's worth investing in them or just going to bolder
hollow sorrel
I always use Skelly or Than. Some people really like Meg. I've seen zero posts of people saying they actually find Dusa useful
green compass
A shame, petrifying is such a pain to deal with I'd hope it would be fun to use
green compass
But it feels oppressively better, I want to make my first summon something interesting over mr healthpack
If that makes sense
scarlet urchin
I've gotten all the summons except bouldy...
Than was the first one I got actually.
naive tusk
Oh, Luna. We have that in common
bronze cloud
Hello, everyone. I love Hades. First that is important. I love everything you all have done to change and improve the game. Please keep up the wonderful work. I was wondering if your team has considered creating any Twitch (streamer) interactions for Hades. I have watched and played the game Dead Cells since it's early development. The reason I bring this game up, is that the Twitch integrations in that game have added a new level of randomness and variety to what was already a fun game of randomness. I feel like Hades could really benefit from some of these connections to a streaming service.
scarlet urchin
I currently use a very far upgraded Than. Though the timing can be a bit of a pain.
naive tusk
Bouldy was the last companion I got
sacred folio
@bronze cloud you might wanna post the suggestion to channel #hades-feedback
hollow sorrel
I don't understand what twitch interactions are
green compass
Cool features for streamer-viewer interactions I believe
hollow sorrel
like emotes?
scarlet urchin
I remember when I first got a summon I didn't know how it worked... And I of course tried to keep the thing that said it'd do 3500 damage to the end of the game for the hardest boss.
Buuuuut of course that doesn't work...
I wonder if someone made a feedback post about that yet....
opal bay
I really mostly use bouldy as a healthpack tbh
green compass
Everyone does
hollow sorrel
(I think Luna's referring to the fact that you literally can't use Than on the final boss)
hollow sorrel
I think I've complained about it, and other people have too
green compass
Forgot that
hollow sorrel
Regardless of lore reasons, if the vast majority of players are picking Bouldy, then maybe something should be done to make the other options a bit more appealing?
green compass
I'd say give meg and than more uses and make people actually want to use them for normal reasons
More an extra tool compared to bouldys panic button use
Part of me wants to say give them a set amount of uses per biome
Instead of run
hollow sorrel
I think most people are using Bouldy for the resources. Its damage is a bit low, and its area of effect is really small
waxen imp
i never really used any of the other summons, but to me, every other summon besides the rock is dmg
rock gives healing, i can do dmg
green compass
But damage with a dumb amount of limitations
hollow sorrel
damage that can delete last phases of some bosses though
sacred idol
#BuffDusa
green compass
^
Give her a 10 second petrify on bosses
That works on hades
E z
It just feels that the problem is the boulder is just way better in 90% of scenarios
hollow sorrel
Like when Thesus goes into full bonkers mode, Than's damage takes him down to a very few HP, and you can usually end the fight before he is done the initial god calling
sacred idol
Skelly is the only other one people use for not cheesing the hydra or theseus
green compass
How does than compare to meg
hollow sorrel
Or the last phase of the Fury fight, where you are stuck in a tiny room. Than literally chunks her down to 0 HP, by himself
Bouldy = 1,000 Meg = 2,500 Than = 3,500
green compass
Meg is multi hit though
waxen imp
it's meg tho
hollow sorrel
I dunno if the multi hit is reliable
it's like a line of circles that don't overlap much
green compass
Who's got more range?
hollow sorrel
I think the wiki description should probably be updated, to be a bit more clear
Than is a giant circle, but takes longer to hit
green compass
Yea the wiki needs a bit of work..
So basically one does more dmg the other is faster
hollow sorrel
yes
green compass
Hm not actually sure what's better there
sacred idol
Honestly just A Lotta Damage doesn't seem that interesting.
hollow sorrel
Yeah, that's why different people have different opinions on which is better
sacred idol
One reason...
Is that some Heats kinda invalidate it
Lol damage control.
Bouldy has been blocked by the blue shields a lot and it sucks
hollow sorrel
um, I make sure to get rid of the damage control before using a companion...
sacred idol
Well that's the point
You have to shoot everyone in the room twice first
And hope they don't have armor... does it ignore armor?
hollow sorrel
it can damage armor
sacred idol
Like, in the Than rooms he wipes armor too, but does he get gated in summon
Damage armor... so waste a charge to red bar everyone?
Eeh
green compass
Could meg's multihit get both bars?
sacred idol
If you're hitting everyone enough times to strip off armor, you may as well kill them yourself.
That's the main thing
green compass
Like can she in 2hits take both bars
sacred idol
Other than griefing Theseus, there's no moment of "Man, I really wish I could strip all the yellow off everyone and... uh, that's about it gotta clean up"
hollow sorrel
The first three boss fights can all use Than
Ex-Hydra is so cramped, that smacking 3+ heads at once can really dent their HP
scarlet urchin
Wait really? I'm pretty sure you can't on the first.
For me he showed up.
Said.
"Don't make me do this."
And just ditched me without doing anything.
green compass
To be fair theseus is probably the biggest pain to me so far
And is more a run killer then hades at this point
hollow sorrel
Also, I've done multiple 32 heat runs, where I don't take damage control. It's sort of terrible as a 1-heat modifier for some of the aspects
hollow sorrel
Meg and Than can't be used on the final boss, and Meg additionally can't be used on the 1st boss
sacred idol
I do feel like lore handicaps them a bit much
chrome geyser
I am joining in the convo now; but i pretty much take Thanatos. Just summon him as theseus is calling gods. Done.
hollow sorrel
I don't strip all the armor off. I just get rid of the blue hearts if they have them, and use the summon
chrome geyser
Also helps strip off most of the armor in Styx.
sacred idol
Buff the damage ones to ignore armor I think
hollow sorrel
And any aspect that's using damage control (e.g. chaos shield) has a super quick way of getting rid of the blue hearts
hollow sorrel
If your aspect can super quickly get rid of blue hearts, then you shouldn't take that punishment
sacred idol
It better be good at doing only one job (damage)
It's on design principle
A rare, super limited smart bomb power shouldn't arbitrarily be gated off like that
green compass
Part of me wants to say if it cant be used on hades then go the distance and just let it go through phases
For other things
Like theseus and bull
Or hydra
chrome geyser
I like the bosses that have stages; it allows to not being able to skip parts of them.
hollow sorrel
You could just not pick the poorly balanced damage control punishment if it's going to cause you this much grief with the summons
green compass
To me not having to deal with mcblock every run would be a blessing
Greater then any boon
chrome geyser
With other roguelikes; you can one shot bosses with some builds
Better than having reactive armor
Which kinda robs the fun
chrome geyser
The blue armor heat? It goes from being insignificant to being really bad depending on the weapon.
sacred idol
Point is, it's such a waste to JUST strip armor
It looks and feels ridiculous to use your super special friendship nuke and get... armor strip
Especially because Than can literally ignore it when he appears on his own!
green compass
Rail gun just boops it off
hollow sorrel
Armor can be a lot of HP though
green compass
Spear doesn't sound fun with it tho
sacred idol
Still, it kinda looks bad for the nature of a summon
hollow sorrel
And when I'm using Than, 3 of my uses are with boss fights
green compass
Being able to armour strip the medusa head sounds nice
hollow sorrel
and 1 or 2 might be annoying mini-boss fights
final warren
@scarlet urchin Wait, so in response to your feedback, Thanatos companion doesnt work in FB level? I tried it last night for the first time and I was too busy mashing dash to notice, especially considering i continually forgot to flippin use it until then, but I didn't notice anything happening either, and I was pretty sure I had used it. Shady worked fine in FB.
chrome geyser
I don't mind that. To me, you just have to plan it out.
hollow sorrel
like if I'm stuck with the minotaur miniboss fight
chrome geyser
The only companions that work for the final boss are skelly and bouldy
green compass
You cant weaponize people against their bosses
chrome geyser
And that is because they are not employed by the final boss.
green compass
They don't want that pay dock
hollow sorrel
I'm very rarely using companions in regular encounters
chrome geyser
The game is a mix between build and skill. 80% skill; but you still have to build towards some fights. You have to be prepared for the butterflies of death for example.
Or for the final boss.
green compass
Butterflies of death?
chrome geyser
The ULTRA-SOULCATCHER-EX battle
hollow sorrel
The usual only exception, are some of the trial of the gods, have enemies with ridiculously high HP, can companions can help with that
chrome geyser
if I don't have immediate shutdown; i prefer asterius-ex over that miniboss fight.
green compass
..I dont think I've seen that yet
hollow sorrel
It's a glowing pink ball
chrome geyser
Turn on middle management; and it is the mini-boss of elysium
Just yesterday, that battle stripped me of 2 DDs
green compass
Arent those just normal enemies?
chrome geyser
There is an elite version
green compass
Ohhh
chrome geyser
Like the elite gorgon and skull crusher.
The issue is; 6 elite exalted souls spawn continuously as long as the ball is there.
scarlet urchin
@final warren FB? You'll have to excuse me.. English isn't my native language and interpreting abbreviations isn't my strong suit.
hollow sorrel
FB = final boss
chrome geyser
So if you can't focus the ball down in ~8 seconds; you have also many powerful exalted to deal with.
And middle-management makes the ball teleport randomly; so you need mobility and high non-area damage to deal with it.
final warren
Yeah, first time I did middle management with the butterflies of death, holy lord, I was NOT prepared. And then no Patroclus.
chrome geyser
If you don't have that; you are screwed for that fight for example.
scarlet urchin
Thanks CoffeeCrash.
in which case. Yes. Than summon doesn't work for the FB.
I tried many times with the exact same issue as you.. I was far too busy dashing around and trying to stay alive to notice what was wrong.
chrome geyser
If you want to use a summon for the FB; i suggest skelly.
There will be a prompt saying "summon unavailable" if you press it multiple times.
sacred idol
Bouldy is significantly funnier @chrome geyser
Unless he has hilarious lines for bouldy too
chrome geyser
But yes; Than, Meg and Dusa much prefer their high paying jobs than to help you out.
sacred idol
But bouldy drop on him is always top tier comedy
hollow sorrel
Skelly's usefulness can depend on the weapon aspect. The bow and rail might be able to pinpoint specific targets, but things like the chaos shield can easily friendly fire the skeleton
chrome geyser
Oh it is funny all right.
primal cape
Seeing the term butterfly of death made me remember when I first saw someone say murderboat
sacred idol
More like, I think they're literally contract bound to not do that
chrome geyser
But bouldy creates impassible obstacles in the fight.
hollow sorrel
skelly is still useful for the chaos shield, but he might die faster that way
chrome geyser
And the damage is not that high.
sacred idol
It's not just about selfish job security stuff, it's that they're probably gonna get Sisyphus'd otherwise
chrome geyser
And the gold is wasted; i take bouldy and i try to deplete it to sink that money in Styx shop.
chrome geyser
Dusa has friendly fire?
chrome geyser
I never used her really. But that is wrong.
hollow sorrel
And you can accidently damage Skelly
chrome geyser
Probably
sacred idol
Skelly shouldn't have friendly damage though
chrome geyser
I think Skelly it's not a bug. Stops you from indiscriminantly attacking near him
And he WANTS to be hit
hollow sorrel
good luck trying to melee something with the sword, while avoiding accidently hitting skelly
chrome geyser
It's good for ranged for that purpose.
hollow sorrel
yeah
final warren
I think its rather odd that you can't use all companions in final battle
chrome geyser
Not so good on sword or shield.
final warren
I get it thematically I guess, but that seems to be a lame excuse compared to combat needs.
chrome geyser
Well it's lore above gameplay.
hollow sorrel
skelly is good with Guan-yu, because the spear doesn't bounce
*spear special
well, I suppose it doesn't bounce on the other spears either, without the hammer
sacred idol
@chrome geyser stops you from playing isn't a good trait to have
hollow sorrel
I think the default shield special always tries to bounce once, I think?
sacred idol
No, I mean Skelly
Stops you from attacking near him is entirely against the point of decoy
final warren
but... this is a game about fighting out of Hades. You think he doesnt know that theyve been aiding you already?
hollow sorrel
I don't think every companion should be required to be equally useful for every weapon aspect
chrome geyser
He does.
final warren
from a lore perspective, it would be amusing to see his reactions as well
Plus, depending on the real ending, I doubt it matters by the time of FB
chrome geyser
But letting your boss know you are sleeping with his son; vs beating your boss up along with his help is two different things
Also; they would be punished very severely
final warren
they have already committed treason by assisting you, directly, already.
They are bound by fate to continue their duty, but assisting you outside of that is not something punishable
chrome geyser
TBF; fates seem to be arbitrarily powerful
final warren
Thematically, the cthonic gods do not follow a leader. Their leader is their purpose. Hence the implied hilarious subversion of Tisiphone
hollow sorrel
Maybe the devs didn't want people skipping the disco murder lasers in the final boss fight
chrome geyser
What is the subversion of Tisiphone
final warren
who has Zag murdered?
chrome geyser
besides M U R D E R? MURRRRDERRRRRR
final warren
why would she be fighting you?
final warren
Alecto and Meg make sense from their roles as furies
chrome geyser
Well; alecto wants to torture you
Meg is pissed that you called her whip purple instead of pink some time ago, or something.
final warren
Lol murding vermin is true lmao
hollow sorrel
I think Hades told the bosses to fight you
chrome geyser
And tisiphone is MUR DER? MURDER MURDER!
final warren
well in actual thematic sense: Alecto punishes pride and anger
hollow sorrel
Thesus doesn't really have any other legit reason of fighting you either
chrome geyser
They are all ordered to fight you to prevent you from escaping
sacred idol
Theseus is just an arrogant ass
chrome geyser
That's why shades also fight you
final warren
Megaera punishes property and oath crimes
sacred idol
The Elysium dudes literally fight BECAUSE THEY CAN™️
final warren
Tisiphone, punishes mortal murder
chrome geyser
Lernie is just put there i think. He just likes to hiss and be malevolant.
final warren
hence why ALL three torture sisyphus
sacred idol
Elysium is the afterlife of crazy glory hounds
They all do it because there is zero purpose in their afterlives beyond fightin gud
chrome geyser
I mean; Zag is not a shade so they have no reason to punish zag. Cause their duties are to punish shades.
final warren
yeah, theseus makes an incredible amount of sense lol
sacred idol
Furies are there because they're ordered to
chrome geyser
And meg literally says lord hades asked her to stop zag
sacred idol
Theseus is there because he's a vainglorious bastard who likes flexing on you
final warren
yes, that is the literal reason, but there is also the thematic and philosophical reason
sacred idol
Asterius is there out of loyalty and because them's the rules. You enter room, you fight.
final warren
hence, tisiphone is the one out of place, and zag calls her out on that, a lot
and its funny
to me, at least
sacred idol
But yeah Tisi is hilarious
chrome geyser
Asterius is precious; and unfortunately stuck with Theseus because without him he would be stuck in Tartarus.
primal cape
I have a feeling I know what you’re going to say
chrome geyser
#asteriusdidnothingwrong
final warren
@primal cape could it be.... murder?
final warren
But i see no compelling overarching story reason NOT to be allowed to use the companion items in the FB.
Thematics should not overide 3/5 of the companions gameplay usefulness.
And if thats the case, they need to be changed to different thematic origins
Ignoring that discovering this without warning or accident is... well its really crap gameplay design.
primal cape
I don’t know why companions matter vs fb if all keepsakes work
hollow sorrel
The devs could easily retcon the restriction, if they wanted
final warren
Companions are definitely in a weird place
IMHO
they are kinda an unknown mega-weapon
I know theres some more content coming, but the nectar/ambrosia gifts seem arbitrarily confined as of now
hollow sorrel
I'm against removing friendly fire for skeleton. It's good for the game when different companions are better/worse for different weapon aspects. Making something good for everything, just encourages people to always use the same thing. Besides, it's thematic with a lot of other games, that the ranged characters get some sort of tank/decoy, that the melee characters either don't get or don't benefit as much from
final warren
once you get the companions, they have an immediate impact on gameplay, especially in tougher rooms
but theres no way to try them out, to know how they work, or when they WONT work (eg FB). It seems arbitrary, especially without any insight on how they work.
sacred idol
@hollow sorrel uh... I don't get the logic
final warren
I am not a fan of having to wiki something thats fundamental to gameplay
sacred idol
It's still bad for ranged lmao
Oops, your bomb will kill your summon
Oops, your chiron arrows will punch through him by mistake
Oops, your anything that isn't single target will counter your own limited use buddy
final warren
that goes for the boon progression too. Its weird that we have no way of knowing what the boon progressions are unless we wiki.
silver seal
i feel like he could just not take full dmg from our hits
hollow sorrel
I have three videos of me using skelly in 32 heat hell mode. Skelly is perfectly fine, even at high heat
sacred idol
It's not a well balanced or designed way to make things better for certain weapons
"I can do it, so it's fine for everyone else"
Isn't a good argument
I don't believe the friendly fire adds anything to the game
By that logic should we keep in Dusa being able to shoot you?
hollow sorrel
How does Dusa benefit some aspects, but not others? She's terrible for all aspects
sacred idol
Well, if you want friendly fire, you gotta take friendly fire.
Not just when it doesn't affect your playstyle
hollow sorrel
Would it make you feel better if I made a 32 heat video of the chaos shield using Skelly? I'm sure I could make that work
sacred idol
That's not the point.
I don't care.
Because critiquing design decisions isn't about one person's records
It just seems to me like a design flaw that adds nothing to the game.
Even if it didn't have that, it wouldn't just be the only good companion, or objectively the best
hollow sorrel
It makes it so it's not just a brainless summon, that you just mash buttons around
sacred idol
Does it make you immune to any attacks that target him?
If not, moot argument
You can still get hit lmao
hollow sorrel
If the friendly fire was removed, they'd have to severly reduce his hp
sacred idol
I doubt they would "have to"...
hollow sorrel
I'm sure he would be severely unbalanced if they removed friendly fire, but kept the current hp
sacred idol
Unless he can facetank Hades' murder stab all day...
You were arguing that friendly fire wasn't an issue because you don't even hit him
So what is it really
Guess he doesn't have too much HP then if you can use him without hitting him at all 4head
hollow sorrel
I'm limiting my attacks to not hit him. The rail could still launch rockets that could friendly fire
And even with Hestia, I could accidently target him if I'm not careful. The controller aim isn't exactly perfect
But without friendly fire, Hestia with rockets could probably delete half of the final boss' lifebar, before the skeleton dies
Hunting blades would really probably do that too
Because the final boss wouldn't be moving around as much, because the skeleton stays in one place, so the blade rifts will hit a lot
mortal tendon
From a balance perspective, the summons were just a flat increase to utility with no trade off in addition to everything else the game has to offer, So maybe it’s intending for balance. But I’m new here so /shrug
primal cape
Just because you or others can work around limitations doesn’t mean the feature should have those limitations
hollow sorrel
Does anyone else realize that powerful cast builds would probably delete 50% to 100% of the final boss' lifebar, if the friendly fire was removed?
Those powerful casts, that become even more powerful when the enemy isn't bouncing around...
primal cape
You’re literally repeating the same point while failing to acknowledge others
hollow sorrel
I understand other people's points. They want overpowered stuff that will trivialize the game
primal cape
I have yet to see someone say they want friendly fire removed because it would make the game easier
Peoples primary point is getting rid of friendly fire would make more options available thus making the player enjoyment higher
hollow sorrel
That's what removing friendly fire would do though
primal cape
If it was handled improperly sure, however the point is if it wasn’t the game difficulty would be roughly the same and improve player enjoyment
primal cape
Lol
sacred idol
Everyone else is wrong and hates balance.
Let's just make Thanatos do 9999 damage through invincibility phases.
hollow sorrel
Not a strawman. If friendly fire was removed, and hp kept the same, people would just launch hunting blades at the finall boss, and just sit there while he dies
sacred idol
Might as well since we all just want everything to be mindlessly OP
So I guess everything can be mindlessly OP now
All summons should oneshot
chrome viper
I think being able to hit Skelly is better than not being able to target him, considering some boons bounce
sacred idol
And have 20 uses
4Head
But I mean no one said he had to keep the exact same HP lmao
chrome viper
and it makes it easier to fill some requesites for other boons, like Artemis Marked, or Dio's ''more damage while 3 enemies are poisoned'', stuff like that
hollow sorrel
Let's also remember the shield is overused, so things that try to tip the balance towards other weapons can be a good thing
sacred idol
It isn't about the shield vs the other weapons
chrome viper
besides, friendly fire means that Skelly can have more HP than he would have if you couldnt hit him
sacred idol
You're using a completely different thing to justify it lmao
hollow sorrel
If you remove friendly fire, and drop his hp, then you're making him worse for ranged aspects
sacred idol
It doesn't have anything to do with that when you can just throw the zeus disc onto Hades already
chrome viper
making him more valuable if you're able to avoid hitting him
chrome viper
it's p good for isolated targets like minibosses
some of the actual bosses too
makes AoE builds more valuable
primal cape
It’d be better for the game for skelly to be used on any weapon than have a specific niche
sacred idol
Most of this reasoning is pretty wild though, "it benefits my playstyle specifically and I'm the only one who understands balance"
hollow sorrel
It can still be used on any weapon. Even if it's a room full of monsters, you just start with the monsters the farthest away from the skeleton
chrome viper
I dont think it's locked to certain weapons though
it's obviously better with some of them
hollow sorrel
I still use skelly even when I'm using spear or shield
chrome viper
but it's not like that big of a difference
I think boons are more relevant for that argument
primal cape
But it isn’t nearly as effective and the change to make it more effective is an easy change
sacred idol
I'm not even concerned with that
chrome viper
untargetable?
primal cape
Just not take damage from zag
sacred idol
I just think friendly fire on a summon looks like as much of a bug as Dusa killing you
Kek
chrome viper
then they'd have to reduce his HP, reducing his effectiveness if you were already able to avoid hitting him
sacred idol
I mean, implying you can't already just spam a perfect hunting blades build to win
Assuming you have one
hollow sorrel
So, a summon, that clumps monsters together, that can't be harmed by Zag, and allows people to melt entire groups with AoE spam, wouldn't be overpowered
?
chrome viper
it would be, yes
sacred idol
Is he really that obscenely tanky though.
chrome viper
he isnt
turbid needle
Shield is only overused because people find it so easy, that so many speedruns use other weapons testifies to that, I think.
chrome viper
and it would only make him worse if they had to reduce his hp
hollow sorrel
you purposely summon him behind things like pillars
but if his hp was reduced, it would probably be worse than just dropping Than
sacred idol
So he's not that tanky, but he would suddenly become too tanky, comparing to a use case where you don't hit him anyway and do everything possible to ignore his downside
chrome viper
he's tanky in certain cases
elysium and styx bosses just run trhough him for example
sacred idol
He can survive being stepped on by max damage middle management super stompy boi?
hollow sorrel
the Ex-gorgon mini-boss fight? yes; if you don't friendly fire. You summon him behind a pillar, so the gorgon doesn't hit him
sacred idol
If you do friendly fire... you summon him behind a pillar, and then don't shoot the pillar until you're about to kill stompy anyway?
hollow sorrel
works for every weapon aspect, because you'd defeat the gorgon before going anywhere near the skeleton, and after the gorgon is dead, the fight is much easier
so, even if I were using a sword, I'd still benefit greatly from skelly in that fight
and in Ex-Hydra final phase, you summon him in like a corner, then kill the other hydra heads that aren't near the skeleton
sacred idol
Can't tell where this changes a huge deal
Since you're describing not hitting the skeleton at all
turbid needle
Skelly locks down the Dire Skullcrusher?
hollow sorrel
you can still get all the hydra heads that aren't in that corner (which is a lot of them), before you even have to worry about friendly fire
sacred idol
And totally neutralizing scenarios in which you would hit the skeleton
Sounds like no difference between having FF on and off if you're not slicing him up regardless.
That's all I'm saying.
hollow sorrel
the changes is that if friendly fire were removed, the devs would have to drop skelly's hp, or do something else to balance it
sacred idol
Well, that's assuming they HAVE TO act the way you assume, in a way that doesn't really change what you're already doing, which is ignoring the supposed balancing factor as much as possible.
If we're to go by your arguments, then the downside isn't balancing much of anything because you just plonk him behind a rock anyway.
chrome viper
proper use isn't an argument? ok then
I'd rather use a damaging summon instead of a taunt that won't last more than a second
sacred idol
No, claiming something balances the item and then saying you don't suffer any real consequences from it being there isn't strong evidence for your case
chrome viper
specially if I have a bounce build that wont proc because my summon is useless
hollow sorrel
I still don't understand why everything needs to be equally useful for everything. Why can't certain aspects/builds benefit from some things more than others?
sacred idol
Evidently it's not functioning as much of a downside.
I still can't understand why you assume that's the point.
chrome viper
yeah I'd rather lose my run than having a functional summon
hollow sorrel
And keep in mind this is one of the most underused summons in the game, even amongst people that play bow and rail
chrome viper
assuming Skelly isn't already picked only to tank in higher heat levels
sacred idol
Just decide already, is it a functional penalty or not?
hollow sorrel
what do you mean by "functional penalty"?
sacred idol
I have literally zero idea what you're ranting about @chrome viper
But go off, I guess
chrome viper
that's a good answer
sacred idol
@hollow sorrel
So you've been saying:
-The friendly fire balances him because he would be too strong if you couldn't kill him and would need a nerf
-You only use him in situations where you don't hit him
So: Is it balancing anything right now?
If you're not running into the downside then it doesn't change anything.
chrome viper
''only use him in situations where you don't hit him'' doesn't mean that I won't use him if I have to
hollow sorrel
yes; because friendly fire means he's more situational
chrome viper
if you make him untargetable it'd be too strong as it is
hollow sorrel
I'm purposely choosing scenarios where I can avoid friendly fire for some portion
sacred idol
But you were also saying "he's already one of the least used summons". So... that's a good thing or a bad thing?
chrome viper
they'd have to change something to make it more balanced, and THEN you'd be forced to use him where he can't be hit
not by you but by everything else
sacred idol
Okay, so in your mind, your reasoning is equivalent to objective necessity, got it
hollow sorrel
My reasoning is he's balanced because he's only situationally useful because of the friendly fire
chrome viper
The spare HP he currently has to tank your own hits makes him good, and is also up to you to exploit his tankiness or sacrificing him for more DPS depending on your build
If you make him untargetable, they'd have to remove the spare HP he has to tank Zagreus, thus making him less useful in areas where he needed the extra HP to tank
hollow sorrel
if you remove the friendly fire, and he's no longer situational, then he'd need to be nerfed
sacred idol
Not that we know for sure whether that's actually intended to be "spare HP for your goofs"
chrome viper
in a game where some of your attacks can't be controlled? they might have that in mind, I dunno
sacred idol
So you're not sure, and yet you present your reasoning as based on objective facts about what is true and what is necessary.
That tells me all I need to know.
Just admit it's your personal opinion already.
chrome viper
sorry I was being sarcastic. It's probably balanced around the idea that you will have to hit him eventualy
sacred idol
Not about needs, but about what you think personally
chrome viper
so everytime I come up with some good reasoning you will tell me that it's only my personal opinion?
what's with arguing if that's what you drop when you have no counter arguments?
hollow sorrel
The friendly fire is intentional
You might disagree with it, but it's currently there on purpose
grand patrol
hello there, stepping in with a reminder to keep things calm in the channel please- weve had someone already worried about this disagreement getting heated so just reminding you all!
sacred idol
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
grand patrol
thanks!! no worries 
chrome viper
in the end it's obviously part of my opinion, thats why there's a voting system in #hades-feedback , we're meant to share what we think about other people's ideas
but you can't just say that Skelly friendly fire is there for no reason
chrome viper
removing it would mean to change either the taunt, his HP, or his uptime
hollow sorrel
^
sacred idol
I literally did kek
scarlet urchin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/616979133691592704/682698525380968559/unknown.png
Got Athena's aid at the very last moment.
Almost got through the FB without losing any DD's. Almost.
scarlet urchin
Nope.... I don't think I got any duo boons offered to me at all this run.
Honestly it's a bit of a shame because last run I almost won but got really bad luck and lost too many DD's before the FB. Losing my streak.
Also overtime is just not my thing I guess. ^^:
scarlet urchin
Yea. I heavily underestimated overtime...
I'd already tried all the conditions once but combined with some others, especially later on... oof.
naive tusk
Did you try it at 20% or 40%?
scarlet urchin
20% But I think the first time I tried it it was around the low heat levels when I was just going through everything to see what it was. (And complete the fated list.)
But the run I lost I was at heat 10.
naive tusk
Oh, I see. I remember having a run with Demeter’s chill + Spent Spirit and didn’t feel the increased speed at all. Why don’t you try that sometime? 
gloomy scroll
I don't like OT either, messes with my dodge timing
scarlet urchin
Well I was fine until I reached Elysium.. started taking way more damage than I usually do.
And then the Satyrs....
Couldn't dodge for the life of me. Quite literally.
dense locust
There is a reason forces OT is 3 heat each (although some of those heat conditions need rescaling) but eventually you’ll get used to increased speed and then without it, the game feels like it’s moving in slow mo
prime knoll
I just left it on, and now it's how the game works, so my dodging and whatnot is keyed into that speed.
astral magnet
y'ever get a run that feels like it isn't that great but you just end up doing weirdly well on
chrome viper
I remember my first runs with Forced Overtime... couldn't even make it past the Louts 
dense locust
Yeah exactly kopek. Now if it’s off, I’ll occasionally dodge too quickly and then get hit lol
astral magnet
although the run did well and then i lost all three lives against the third boss 😭
jagged cairn
safe mesa
currently trying to grind bounties with sword to 32 heat and it’s been mad fun
currently at 18 heat i think
mostly running with nemesis aspect, it’s been going alright
finite violet
I have managed to make a p op cast build and im not sure if i'll get it ever again
Pressure points (+5% crit on every action) + Crystal Beam buffed with crystal clarity (beams track enemies and is 10% stronger), chaos cast boost (48%), dual shot (one cast dumps TWO crystals, so 3 casts equal 6 of them) and greater recall
So i just sit there as my crystal beams melt everything. I killed that elite soul catcher in less than 20secs bc of it
jagged canopy
https://prnt.sc/r8qsm1 sub 10 
finite violet
just melted final boss with this caster stuff it was. amazing https://gyazo.com/2ad62e1d5c1082e4f82ce67212f5f59f
not shown is also artermis's aid combined with god gauge getting filled with every critical hit + 30% filled at start so that also helped
i didn't use attack or special once just. cast
astral magnet
lmao i didn't expect aphrodite's legendary to work on theseus
torn bison
dude it works on hades too
had a shield run with ahprodite on chaos sheild he was charmed so much
mild crag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS7cL384D_M reminder that chiron aphro legendary is funny
naive tusk
Where's the voice commentary at? 
gusty nexus
Anyone else use the Eris Aspect for Rail like a sniper rifle?
oblique tusk
so we can get the "Crystal Meth" duo boon
naive tusk
I know how to photoshop. What exactly do you mean by that? 😮
jagged cairn
keen ocean
@gusty nexus You mean Hestia's aspect? That's the one that adds big damage to the after-reload shot.
And yeah, that's basically the meta use for it: fire, reload, repeat. Like a bolt-action sniper rifle.
naive tusk
Also, this is not an exaggeration nor bragging but, ||after the Final Boss' invulnerability barrier on his 2nd phase disappeared, his whole HP turned from red to white. I sincerely don't know what exactly dealt so much damage to finish him in literally 1 second; what happened was that he was in the bottom left corner as he was in his barrier then I used my Spin Attack + Phalanx Shot on him and then saw his whole HP meter turn white and I was bamboozled||
It was so much fun being a race car in that run lol
waxen furnace
first room on rail: epic zeus attack
third room: epic Support Fire
this. is going to be fun
mighty ermine
@naive tusk i know exactly what you're talking about and i still can't pin down the exact conditions for him to just, melt for entire thirds or bars. might potentially be some wacky deflection related thing?
naive tusk
I think so. Probably reflected something (all his lasers maybe?) while my spin attack was crit-ing. I truly wish I knew because I could use this for a 32 heat run
Wasn’t expecting anything from this build and it has been the best build from all my runs having finishing the fight in seconds
prime knoll
I don't think you can deflect lasers, but it definitely sounds like deflect was at play there.
earnest ravine
Did you F10 it?
prime knoll
I love deflecting fury/hydra projectiles to instantly jump them to the next phase
earnest ravine
I think that'd show like, a fight log to the devs when they received it for them to check.
waxen furnace
deflect is usually the reason why I see hades melt with no explanation, I've been realizing
pretty sure you can't deflect lasers, though
naive tusk
I didn’t because I don’t even know if it’s a bug
mighty ermine
yeah, each time it happened with me, pretty sure athena deflection was at play
sometimes with the deflect damage bonus
earnest ravine
And yeah can't deflect lasers, it's annoying but I guess makes sense
waxen furnace
yeah, not sure that's F10 material
naive tusk
If it wasn’t the lasers, I dont think a single skull would deal thousands of reflect damage at once
prime knoll
unless you can deflect something unexpected like his wave attack
earnest ravine
There's been a lot of cases of reflect just, for no reason at all that can be seen, dealing thousands of damage out of the blue.
At first I thought it wqas related to like, Charm and reflect bugging out for some reason but-
Wait, was he charmed? I see that Aphro legendary.
earnest compass
if he was charmed it explains a lot
prime knoll
lol, do his lasers originate inside him and instagib him if he's charmed?
naive tusk
I don’t even know. I’m not kidding when he died in 1 exact second but I didn’t hear the “ding” from charm
earnest compass
no, its just that charm does weird damage multipliers that can result in massive reflect damage
earnest ravine
^
earnest compass
anytime i've chunked hades by like 20%+ i always had charm and deflect
naive tusk
Holy cow, really?
earnest ravine
I thought you managed to get it without the Charm effect so I was ready to toss my theory into the garbage.
prime knoll
[Cary Elwes in Robin Hood shrugging]
earnest compass
enemies deal more damage to enemies, so if they are charmed they have the enemy damage multiplier, along with a deflect which could result in even more damage
so hades hit himself for big damage as he was charmed at some point
earnest ravine
It's not every hit, so it's hard to consistently do, but sometimes yeah it just spikes to thousands.
earnest compass
yeah its a little uncommon but it does happen with charm
naive tusk
What does he do to himself while charmed to deal that much damage?
earnest compass
any hit really
prime knoll
He reflects upon his bad parenting
mighty ermine
looking at an older clip where this was happening and yeah, like
that was from a deflect dash
earnest compass
i remember a clip here that showed 8k 
naive tusk
A 2 digit dash turned 4 digit 
If that’s the case, my spin attack must have dealt 6 digits lol
Ah well, thanks for the heads up! I’d have never thought charm would multiply damage to the stratosphere 😆
mighty ermine
yeah haha, would definitely explain the dash taking out roughly a little less than a third of the bar while your spin just
annihilated
i am noticing in the clip that it can happen regardless of charm, though
naive tusk
I wonder if they will leave it like that or patch it someday. Seems broken to me (but infinitely hilarious)
To be honest, I don’t think I charmed him but it happened so fast that maybe I missed it
earnest compass
he only gets charmed for like half a sec
hollow sorrel
Did you deflect any skulls back at him? I'm not sure if his skulls make himself take extra damage
mighty ermine
nah i mean in my own clip where i happen to do the deflect gib several times devi
he doesn't get charmed in those instances
earnest compass
if he can apply his skull debuff on himself that would explain a lot too
naive tusk
This what happened exactly:
While at 50% hp on his second phase, he was inside his barrier. I readied my spin attack, maxed, to unleash as soon as his barrier was down. I threw the spin attack, then used a phalanx and dash-striked him. I then saw his 50% hp bar turn white and he died. While I was doing those 3 attacks, I couldn’t see what he was doing because of the massive spin
mighty ermine
https://streamable.com/e4rzh here's part of the fight where this happens twice, once and then the second outright kills
naive tusk
So I can’t say if he was shooting a skull or if he was charmed...
mighty ermine
second is "deflecting" his sweep, which is weird in and of itself
earnest compass
did you have extra deflect damage in that run tail?
earnest ravine
Charm was on your... attack, right?
mighty ermine
yeah
naive tusk
In mine, yeah
mighty ermine
didn't seem to proc in either case for that instance, though
earnest ravine
I was talking to peach but that's good to know, I'll look at the clip, too, but..
earnest compass
deflect just works weird 🤷♂️
naive tusk
Maybe unhealthy fixation on attack + deflect triggers something 😂
Since that’s what common in both cases
hollow sorrel
In a previous patch, charm + deflect used to glitch sometimes, so that we took the extra charmed monster damage. That was sort of terrible
mighty ermine
oof, yeah
naive tusk
But wow, you killed him with Athena dash omg 😆
earnest ravine
Maybe the bonus damage applies before it actually decides if the Charm works?
Because every time it looks like he gets hit with a Weak-applying attack at the same time as a defect.
mighty ermine
"how... augh..." same here dad. no clue
earnest ravine
but yeah idk, it's just weird now
naive tusk
It will remain a mystery, I suppose 
haughty cloak
is it just me or is the starter sword kinda ass
turbid needle
Aspect of Zagreus? It's not super strong, but it works.
haughty cloak
dont remember the name
I'm still somewhat new but its the first weapon
I'm really really liking aegis right now
turbid needle
Sword has all the WR speedruns right now.
haughty cloak
interesting
turbid needle
Aegis is easy mode because it's the only weapon in the game that has defense, but it has the lowest DPS of all weapons.
To be fair, all the really crazy sword speedruns are using it to buff Cast, it's not used much as a sword, but it does have very good melee builds, they're just super high-risk high-reward.
balmy zephyr
anyone know what is concidered a trap besides the obvious, I know lava is a trap is the poison those rat guys lad down in the last biome considered a trap?
earnest ravine
I think so, the yseem to scale about the same as lava does, as well as the vases on the final boss, and the bombs that Thesus drops during the Extreme Measures version count.
dense locust
I used the cast sword build to go from 1 - 15 heat pretty quickly, but liked the crit sword for the higher heats
ripe parrot
Is there any sort of established 'meta' for builds yet and if so, where would I find information regarding it? I'm now on my 40th run and at a point where I can start controlling my builds a bit more.
dense locust
Does the ambiguity bonus from bouldy do anything?
I don't know of any resource regarding any meta builds but if you ask about good builds regarding certain weapons, aspects, boons, etc., a lot of people here can help you out
I definitely have developed my own meta that has been established based on how I like to play
mild crag
No it doesn't
dense locust
It's like the 150% drama bonus from the ever falling petals then
Although I do feel the drama
earnest ravine
The closest to a meta I know of is getting something capable of inflicting two status effects to proc Privellaged Status as soon as possible (and whatever status curses let you do that the best), and that cast builds are super strong especially with Poseidon sword or Hera Bow.
dense locust
Another question
ripe parrot
I'm doing a Zeus sword run rn and it's been very Zeus and Poseidon boon heavy, already got their combo.
dense locust
In charon shop, if there is health restore and a heart, does the health restored from the food scale with your increased hp if you get the heart first
earnest ravine
Yes
dense locust
So getting the heart first is advantageous
wait
no
Im at 245 max and gettin the health first nets me 1.5 extra hp
weee
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/682893554909315102/unknown.png should've taken nemesis.png
dense locust
sub 2.5 minutes and you get heart rend
woeful stirrup
Stick'em up, this is a robbery! Put all of your luck in that bag!
dense locust
You don't want that, it's already been used
sacred idol
Yeah, I ran out :v
okay, so, I killed a chariot and its charge still damaged me three times.
:/
dense locust
thats not good
dense locust
Maybe it was dead, bit its momentum got ya
dense locust
Trying to decide between massive spin and serrated edge with guan yu
But I do have quick spin already....
sacred idol
got one of my last two hammers as well
dense locust
I just dont like having to throw blades at hades
sacred idol
is World Splitter good or bad with crit, btw
dense locust
It can do massive damage
sacred idol
(just normal artemis boon crit, this ain't nemesis)
dense locust
Artemis attack is probably one of the best at normal
because the rarity only scales the damage
i think
not the crit chance
And the damage doesnt get very high
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/682899669667282959/unknown.png why does this happen
(unhittable soul behind a wall)
scarlet urchin
Got some pretty powerful stuff at the end. Even though the progression of this was a mess. I got so many Demeter boons at the last moment.
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/682900239568339038/unknown.png ONE AT A TIME
scarlet urchin
Suddenly everyone wants to duo. xD
sacred idol
World Splitter already
hah
Hi, Phil Swift here.
THAT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE
lost two DD to cheap wall-piercing shots, but I beat Hades... with Bouldy
👌
thanks, fates
scarlet urchin
Nice.
sacred idol
Just shadow slash left on the sword
scarlet urchin
Also a hhh what do I do? Dusa you sweet lovable you. I don't know which option is the better one.....
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/616979133691592704/682904772806049793/unknown.png||
sacred idol
it has no repercussions, it's just whether you feel better keeping it or not
scarlet urchin
I'm too emotionally invested in these characters.. xD
I want to love on all of them and see them happy.
Help.
xD I think I might need more actual socialising and less playing this game.
woeful stirrup
I'll socialize when I can meet cute gorgon heads IRL!
sacred idol
☝️
and last chance on Lernie, this run just... isn't fantastic
but hey, I got my last frickin' sword hammer
scarlet urchin
I feel you on that one with Lernie.
Sometimes I'm fine and sometimes Lernie just eats away at my DD's like it's nothing.
sacred idol
aphro attack, poseidon special, dio dash sword...
please send help patroclus
lmao
Death to random longspear, exciting
sacred idol
Oh hey, I got to the part where the harp starts playing actual music somewhat
scarlet urchin
Oh yea. It's going to take a lot longer between sounds now...
Goodluck.
sacred idol
I keep getting that nasty audio bug though
The one where people's dialogue cuts out
Also, I mean, I'm at a stage where the harp plays several bars of a song, so I think I'm close.
Oh wow, lmao, Achilles spear buffs the entire slicing shot
dense locust
Before the winter update, you could get an extra practice in that made no noise in between the ones that did
naive tusk
I blame my neighbor’s dog barking since 4am
dense locust
Not for me
sacred idol
but that's separate from the audio speech bug
It's still there at the 'whole bar played' stage
dense locust
Oh but practicing at that point is poinless
Unless they add a 4th stage where you get better
than what's his face
naive tusk
Oh, you are trying to get the Orpheus’ git gud fate?
sacred idol
yes
dense locust
Hope they add more instruments and give them aspects
sacred idol
also ugh, taking achilles spear and my run RNG is disgustingly bad
Aspect of Vuvuzela
naive tusk
You could do what I did: spam the play button for 1 minute 😆
dense locust
Yeah before the update, it was twice as fast at all stages because you could practice inbetween the ones that made noise
naive tusk
Since I couldn’t really know how much was “enough” practice before every run
sacred idol
I got the one where he says "Like that!" and he starts playing a part of a song.
So...
I think that's either last or second to?
dense locust
That should be the final one
sacred idol
So, next run = done?
dense locust
Well i got all the prophecies and im at the stage where you play a riff
naive tusk
You have to talk to Orpheus and once he commends you then you are done
sacred idol
well okay, I guess it's gonna finish after I get back from next run
dense locust
ahhh you just got there
i was thinking you had been there a while
and it still hadn't given you the proph
naive tusk
I want Zagreus to play Ballad of the Goddess 
dense locust
I learned today that the voice actor for Zag also wrote all of the music for the game
opal bay
And is voice of skelly!
scarlet urchin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/616979133691592704/682923802346127360/unknown.png
Lost on DD on the Asterius Theseus fight and one DD at the FB.
I don't think I'm great with Guan Yu.
At least not on higher heats. I made it work decently well before when it was far less upgraded.
silver seal
i still cant deal with fb with guan yu
unless i have a great build i just get destroyed
dense locust
Wait can you not killed a charmed enemy until they are uncharmed?
scarlet urchin
No? As far as I know myself you can harm a charmed enemy just the same.
The few times I could charm enemies I always ran into the issue that I accidentally killed the ones helping me.
naive tusk
You can kill them @dense locust
dense locust
I dont think you can, i just dash attacked several times through a few nearly no life enemies
naive tusk
Aw Luna
dense locust
I think you can damage them but not kill until charm ends
naive tusk
That must be a bug. I have been killing charmed enemies with no issue
dense locust
hmm how do i take a screen shot of that....
naive tusk
Press F10 and the bug report screen will take one for you
dense locust
Oh I actually was being sarcastic because a screen shot would'nt provide much info. They are dying now so maybe it was a bug or maybe my dask attack just sucks a lot
I guess its not really sarcasm...
naive tusk
Oh, you silly Dong 😚
dense locust
:Y
rancid shore
So I had a really fun run https://i.imgur.com/3daMJXo.png
It was basically just instant 8 cast poseidon aspect but also higher ranged
naive tusk
Sick 
scarlet urchin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/616979133691592704/682939075891691556/unknown.png
The fates are smiling upon me in this moment.
sacred idol
@obtuse tapir it's a joke, like the fact that it's literally got fries with that
we have a gun, tbf
obtuse tapir
I know it's supposed to be a joke but even then I find it too weird that the concept of five-seconds rule even exist there
Other jokes are at least explained somehow
e.g. the rail or Theseus machine gun
sacred idol
no I'm just surprised you're not talking about how it being basically a fast food meal is weird as hell
obtuse tapir
oh uh
that part I didn't really notice
I thought "oh ok there was food that looks like that in Greece"
sacred idol
heh
astral magnet
if you take longer than five seconds to grab food off the ground the wayward souls will claim it
obtuse tapir
if it was a burger I would've known it's a complete joke but that one looked a bit feasible
naive tusk
Anyone knows what the ambiguity bonus from Bouldy do? 😅
naive tusk
Also, what I find weird is that he mentions the 5-second rule when he’s buying food from Charon or from his purple well shop
Charon selling dirty food
obtuse tapir
well it was on the ground from the beginning
wells idk
yeah actually if it was on the ground from the beginning
then it's not 5-seconds
naive tusk
The well offers something else besides food, I forget it’s name. I think it’s a bottle
I will be checking it next time I find it this run
small gorge
something from nyx
astral magnet
it seems weird how you can buy darkness from charon's well but not gems tbh
sacred idol
common too
naive tusk
There’s a roundabout way to buy 250 gems from Charon for 1500 gold but it’s luck based
I don’t know if they nerfed her, sorry 😦
sacred folio
I only started playing the game since the Long Winter update and I haven't seen any nerf to Artemis.
If you need help understanding how damage is calculated I suggest reading this: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Damage_Calculation
1K crit damage is still pretty achievable
sacred idol
There's a bit of nerf from pre Long Winter
not a lot though
that said, you can absolutely break 1k
naive tusk
I just started this run with Hestia and Im doing almost 900 damage
If I had Heart Rend or something else it would surpass 1k
small gorge
my combo is nemesis and aphro ater duo
sacred idol
ugh, 16 minutes in Asphodel, DD'd on Meg, and hydra with 16 health
no hunting blades/10
also aphro gave me a dud boon once, passion dash instead of special
small gorge
i used to get 1k damage when i got lv 5 purple or red atk boon of atermis
now i only got for like less than 600
so sad couldnt finish hades in <1m for record
naive tusk
Did you have other stuff included like Boiling Blood, Privileged Status, etc?
small gorge
all i got every artermis atk boon in fact
not include cast
*included
i think i have to try with the gun
naive tusk
Oh, you should, totally
small gorge
but hunting blade build still op
naive tusk
Highly recommend
small gorge
try with gun once satisfied
i want to set a new record <15m with >7 heat
so i need something can kill hades in less than 1m
so far only blade rift build get that time
sacred idol
Every single time I try for Hunting Blades, I get my worst runs ever.
Pathetic luck, atrocious times, and I just dropped another DD to some rando longspear
sacred idol
lucky you, I always get trash and no actual hunting blades
and ares cast is almost useless without hunting blades if enemies like moving
small gorge
right before elysium
only things i got unlucky with is athena legendary boon
never see it
i played this game since hermes update
naive tusk
Try charm + deflect
I literally beat Hades in seconds
Not intentionally but still 😅
small gorge
i have to try 1 more thing Legendary Demeter and Aphro aid
small gorge
lul
sacred idol
maximum allowable spawns on the elysium guys
hunting blades? implying I even get boons this run
small gorge
u got the change reward stuff and everytime u get the key it allowed u to have 1 more change?