I already hate this
#h1-builds-and-combat
waxen furnace
soft harbor
yeah you can see what god decided you can't have
waxen furnace
I'll wait until I lose my winstreak (at 17 now) and then give no choice a go!
soft harbor
i lost my 70~ streak trying for the 32 heat 😦
also relieving, because now i don't care if i lose anymore
soft harbor
i've put inappropriate hours into the game
lemme see what my pact stuff is for ~20heat
i dont use No Choice that high up
waxen furnace
agh. hestia rail with zeus. hammer is first pickup. both rocket bomb and cluster bomb... I want both 😦
I've never taken cluster bomb without rocket bomb, actually. but on controller, rocket bomb is just too nice as a QoL thing
halcyon cedar
zeus attack seems nice early but later i find it no damage when i go 3rd stage onwards
although i already choose piercing shot from daedalus or explosive for more aoe
waxen furnace
image link did not work for me, no
waxen furnace
@halcyon cedar I do agree. everybody recommended zeus rail though - sometimes I can get it to pop off (with poseidon, lealding to easy status spreading) but it was very boon dependent
halcyon cedar
now i am going for artemis shot with hestia and dash too but my fingers is very tired to make combo
reload> dash+ shot.... rinse and repeat
soft harbor
by Elysium you start to need Zeus legendary on Rail
halcyon cedar
1.6k damage on single bullet but rest of the shot is 15-16 lol
waxen furnace
...that first shot can crit? why did I not think of that lol
that seems fin
*fun
halcyon cedar
yeah but it is RNG
soft harbor
waxen furnace
fair enough
halcyon cedar
and tired
soft harbor
hey that one worked
i'd do something like that with Rail
my last run just didn't have Convenience Fee and Jury Summons or something
nimble cypress
Is there a way to improve my odds of finding the blackout boon
halcyon cedar
i now lean toward to demeter for slow + curse srtatus
soft harbor
and it was a cakewalk
nimble cypress
I'm trying to get the prophecy for dio
halcyon cedar
then get posidon dash something for duo curse maybe
waxen furnace
2 damage control... I need to level zag aspect. lol
soft harbor
use Dionysus trinket from the start and hope he keeps showing up
what's that one need? Fog and Hangover?
soft harbor
pretty much all the next tier boons require something from the earlier
lemme check real quick
halcyon cedar
haha read hades wikia then check the prophecy list and compare which one is lacking and what boon can trigger it out lol
soft harbor
okay so more or less you need the Festive Fog cast, and one hangover effect
waxen furnace
how do dash-strike buffs work with rail/hestia? do both of the double-shots post dash get buffed?
soft harbor
which is nearly all of Dio's other boons
you just shoot one, Marah
instead of two
@nimble cypress so get Festive Fog when offered, and any hangover boon that'll help your run the most
and then Black Out should be in his pool
halcyon cedar
artemis dash (dmg buff, not crit) only boost 1st bullet shot....
waxen furnace
I more meant the chaos buff, but I assume it works the same way
halcyon cedar
also i tried shotgun railgun, the hestia 1st bullet still same range
soft harbor
yeah, I think you just have to dash and it counts your bullet as a dash-strike, even though it doesn't act like a traditional Rail dash strike
turbid needle
Used to work together but it was super busted.
halcyon cedar
if go with artimis, then choose the naked goddesss for "weak get more damage on crit"
waxen furnace
80% dashstrike bonus, vs 50% attack bonus. also a 45% gold bonus which I'll probably take as the most appealing one (50% attack bonus) requires 4 chamber rewards hidden and that usually bothers me so much
halcyon cedar
i chose attack bonus because my fingers is tired lol. even i play with controller
but then my highest heat only 16 lol
tried 32 but cannot beat it yet
soft harbor
Forced Overtime is just really hard, and the other high-head modifiers aren't fun 😦
halcyon cedar
force overtime is fine
i watch the speed run one and it motivated me lol
cut down the useless fight and try focus on next
because i aim to farm titan blood for more upgrades
right now only the other 3 spears upgrade i haven't done, rest of the unlocks i pretty much cleared
halcyon cedar
guan yu with FO is not fun lol becasue you have no much over-time penalty to tank
in the thesus boss stage
crystal geyser
i'm currently at heat 20 with the sword and spear, apparently i cant earn more rewards with those weapons for the moment, do i have to reach heat 20 with the other weapons too?
halcyon cedar
heat bounty is binded with weapon type
so if u play shield, it starts from heat 1
if u already cleared with shield with heat 0
i am more like shield gun tho XD
chaos shield with doom
crystal geyser
i think i have like 2 clears with shield
halcyon cedar
that's how the shield play in speed play and i try to copy his boon set
max special shield throw (chaos got 5 i think) then doom every foes lol, the curse damage need to pump up to around 200 per curse lol
soft harbor
Shield is easy peasy super free-sy
nimble cypress
Thanks, swordsaint
nimble cypress
I at least have a shot at the boon now
soft harbor
yeah, the main thing is the Festive Fog cast is pretty much straight required
there's a couple Duos for him like that too
nimble cypress
Trippy shot with Hera is good anyway
waxen furnace
this freaking run...
"I have zeus attack on rail. maybe I'll pick poseidon boon next to start the synergy ball rolling"
next room is poseidon boon
"okay then. maybe I'll pick athena to get that dash to keep me safe as I dash around, that always gets me through Hades smoothly"
two rooms later, athena room
"...alright. What special do I put on this rocket then? aphro maybe? I have good damage for now, survivability would be nice to have as well"
next room has chaos gate with an easy to get extra DD from legendary
haven't even met the furies yet
and 300g from a well placed infernal circle right before the pre-fury shop. hnnnng
waxen furnace
third chaos boon by halfway through aspho. an extra DD and over 50% extra rare boon chance. mmmm
karmic crater
does anyone know how damage resistance is calculated?
Cause if it's additive I have 76% dmg resistance right now, but I don't seem to be seeing that in the damage I'm taking
crimson mesa
Anyone know if you need to finish a run to unlock aspects?
atomic panther
You need to unlock all weapons
I don't think there's requirements beyond that, though
crimson mesa
i have sword, spear, shield, bow, and rail. There is an empty slot, is there another weapon?
atomic panther
Not as of now, no. I guess there is another requirement, maybe you do need to beat the final boss first
crimson mesa
perhaps. ok thanks.
hollow sorrel
The last weapon hasn't been released yet
crimson mesa
uhg i guess i do have aspects unlocked, it wasn't clear to me how to select them
crystal geyser
is aphrodite the best to pick for damage currently?
halcyon cedar
aphrodite is the highest base damage boost i think
2nd one is either athena or something?
raw damage boost:
aphrodite : norm+ 50% , special+ 80%
athenna / demeter : norm+ 40% , special+ 60%
artemis: norm+ 20% , special+ 40%
posidon : norm+ 30% , special+ 70%
aphrodite quite powerful, i always save call slot for her so i can use on boss to "stun" them
at least the freaking hades sun ray beam
pretty useful especially for deadline run?
waxen furnace
aphro is generally highest % if no other boons are included, but it does depend on if you're talking attack or special
...oh. I only just read Inescapable Blast. Of course it doesn't work with rockets...
bit of a shame they can even be picked together. I misread it as "enemies hit by your special are 75% slower"
waxen furnace
does it? enemies seem to move just as quickly
the debuff seems to be those black hula hoops
it sorta looks like they don't move for a short while, then move at a normal place with the hula hoops applied
naive tusk
Yes. They will get those black hoops after they get hit by the rockets
waxen furnace
I see the hula hoops disappear from a rat, and it keeps trodding along at the same pace
huh. maybe it's a bug, then?
waxen furnace
I think at most rarities, aphro wins out
with some leveling I think arte catches up/surpasses, though. and there's more crit synergy out there
unintended but should have been expected side effect - Inescapable Blast + Aphro special gets 2 curses on all by itself. well isn't that swell
smoky oasis
what's inescapable blast?
unkempt pagoda
enemies in your special radius are slowed
mild crag
Inescapable blast slow isn't a curse
waxen furnace
...huh. I was sure one tap of special was getting the right sound effect up. let me test again
sacred idol
@waxen furnace nice, your rail run was like mine but even more broken. Never seen double Chaos legendary before. I got zeus attack artemis special/cast athena dash, though...
waxen furnace
yeah, I misspoke. Must have triggered another curse somehow. this makes more sense. sorry
halcyon cedar
Rail with artermis generally don't boost much as in bullet is 10 damage lul, stackable / debuff boon works better? But special with crit maybe works well 🤔
Non-hestia eail
mild crag
Not the first person to be confused by it don't worry uwu @waxen furnace
mild crag
Zeus and dionysus attack are synergistic with rail
waxen furnace
only one chaos legendary in my run, though
mild crag
Especially eris aspect
sacred idol
With some poms to 93% damage, a cluster bomb took Theseus down all the way to breaking his chariot in one 5 hit
waxen furnace
4 chaos boons in total
smoky oasis
I love one shotting mobs with heroic artemis special
sacred idol
It was Epic+poms
halcyon cedar
But normally i try get artemist " all damage got 5% (epic) crit" for once
sacred idol
I got priv stat, Theseus was like 90% health
Shot him with a melee range cluster so they would all land on the same spot with Eris buff
His chariot exploded
I think I got the mega lucky 5x crit
So basically a call
Oh, I misread the chaos thing. Very nice though
halcyon cedar
Hera bow with boost all the way with Artemis, ggwp
sacred idol
Chaos boons can be ridiculous
smoky oasis
*ring ring ring. Theseus picked up phone.
"hello?"
"omae wa mou shindeiru"
"nani?"
so I started playing on hell mode recently
always so close to beating Hades, then just die to laser
I use the bouncing spear and just spam on the pillar
it ricochets across the room
halcyon cedar
bouncing spear or explosive spear, which one works better?
smoky oasis
bouncing imo
halcyon cedar
bouncing spear i scared always not able to recall spear when i dash to enemy lol
smoky oasis
you can hit enemy from behind pillars while they cant hit you
waxen furnace
oh crap. how does bouncing spear work with Guan Yu? That seems... insane?
smoky oasis
pretty OP imo
sacred idol
Can't roll
halcyon cedar
no, guan yu cannot bounce
waxen furnace
awh. that's understandable I guess
halcyon cedar
then i nneed to think bounce + posidon boon or bounce spear with ares boon
with zagreus spear aspect +25% special damage
just play like how i play chaos aspect shield? boost special damage only? 
smoky oasis
yea
waxen furnace
halcyon cedar
other spear i am pretty much lazy to press all buttons lol
smoky oasis
also pick special speed too
smoky oasis
wait why not play at max heat?
waxen furnace
lv6 epic zeus call with increased area per hit, rockets with lv4 aphro... what a blast
were you asking me?
smoky oasis
yea
waxen furnace
I play at the level that gets me rewards still, and slowly learn to play around each newer heat item
don't see any need to rush that process right now
halcyon cedar
yeah my last run was fun, low heat tho. 5 or 6 maybe
i picked spear special throw explosive, special speed +21%, special boon with ares curse. around 170 damage because i didn't manage to get epic rarity
then revenge effect got lighting +jolted, weak, doom , weak (killed foe will explode)
dash is posidon boon
then lately i get the legendary posidon boon, knock back with know back 2nd time
basically i am a bomb maker 👀
(corrected lul)
smoky oasis
I always try to push the heat highest as I can
I like challenges
normal mode kinda bored me now so I had to switch to hell
halcyon cedar
i haven't manage to beat 32 heat yet, nor i haven't max out all weapon yet
only 16 heats manage to beat
sacred idol
@halcyon cedar ares bounce, bouncing poseidon won't really help much
waxen furnace
I like progressively upping the heat. keeps things fresh each time
sacred idol
For the big chunky damage it's explosive and charged skewer.
smoky oasis
big chunky dmg = amphrodite/pos?
sacred idol
Wha
Although explosive charged skewer needs aphrodite or maybe artemis
Poseidon MAYBE because explosive has powerful stagger
dense locust
@waxen furnace You got chaos DD twice?
waxen furnace
I did not
dense locust
how did you get the extra 2
waxen furnace
one was tooth, one was chaos DD
dense locust
Oh oh right
Someone on this server mentioned getting 2 DD from chaos once
Or maybe it was reddit lol
vagrant steppe
hey are you guys getting broken spires for the floating skeleton heads?
vagrant steppe
sprites* sorry
waxen furnace
so for chiron bow, I've tried aphro attack/artemis special, and aphro attack/dio special. any fun combos to try next? Trying to think of things that stack nicely. Demeter special maybe?
hm. maybe Zeus/demeter to finally get Cold Fusion off my fates list
soft harbor
any of the stacky things are nice
waxen furnace
which would just be dio and dem, no?
dense locust
What are broken sprites
soft harbor
someone told me that Zeus doesn't work with uh Chiron special though
smoky oasis
ares too
soft harbor
i haven't tried to verify that
dense locust
Like the animation is broken?
soft harbor
and Support Fire only triggers one arrow with Chiron too sadboys
smoky oasis
the dmg would be insane in large group
vagrant steppe
yeah pretty much
dense locust
It honestly should trigger on every arrow
waxen furnace
the goal would be to get jolted once on attack, but for it to stick because of Cold Fusion. then get Dem stacks with special
that seems like it would be fun
soft harbor
it does with the Rail
dense locust
Rail zeus is strong
sacred idol
@vagrant steppe f10 ingame if broken
smoky oasis
dude if zeus triggers on every special arrow
soft harbor
i usually do Hangover Chiron
vagrant steppe
@sacred idol Cheers lad
dense locust
Had a poseidon/zeus heavy run last night on like 14 heat hell and it wrecked everything
sacred idol
@waxen furnace Demeter for sure. Zeus isn't good on chiron special but could work with flurry shot
smoky oasis
then everything else around the primary target will instantly die
dense locust
was timed so poseidon was a godsend (no pun intended)
waxen furnace
yeah I use hangover or crit special on chiron, wanted to try something new
sacred idol
Dio would allow you to spec ice wine
soft harbor
Demeter makes it pretty free too
dense locust
Demeter is my fave for chiron
soft harbor
Demeter is just good and safe in general
waxen furnace
@sacred idol yeah demeter is the chosen special, I was trying to figure out what to put on attack is what started this. zeus came up as an idea for cold fusion
smoky oasis
for zeus u need jolted too
soft harbor
if they've got blue hearts, Zues is nice on attack
dense locust
I like the bouncing shot on bow with doom, and chiron demeter
soft harbor
Jolted is worth the investment imo
waxen furnace
might try and go for dio cast, sure. but I wanted a non-stack status on attack
with cold fusion it seems potent
dense locust
the special will pierce everything to get to the back enemy
and everything gets doomed and chilled
waxen furnace
my athena, aphro, and arte boons are lv3. zeus, poseidon, dio lv2. and ares dem at lv1. need to pick ares and dem more often lol
...had not realized the arrows pierce
<.<
naive tusk
Sea Storm on Chiron special is 👌🏼
dense locust
yeah i was surprised by how effective it was with the bouncing arrow
smoky oasis
aphro special + ares attack + bounce arrow is the best combo imo
sacred idol
Zeus is only worth on bow attack if you're lucky and get Hermes attack+Flurry Shot.
dense locust
yeah agreed peach
smoky oasis
can't get any better than that
sacred idol
Sea Storm works on special, but is kinda poor at the knockback
waxen furnace
wouldn't cold fusion alone make it worth it though?
dense locust
My heat 20 on bow was chiron (can't remember the special but i think it was poseidon, with the zeus/posiedon duo boon), and flurry and bounce hammers on ares attack
naive tusk
Who cares about knockback when you have rupture and jolt? XD
waxen furnace
you're not relying on the attack damage % bonus anyways. all you care about is the status. with cold fusion it lasts longer than any other status curse and does a pretty respectable amount of damage as well
sacred idol
It would, but you wouldn't be doing great attack damage until then.
dense locust
Dont you need knockback for rupture?
sacred idol
Doom does do a crapton on attack
waxen furnace
fair enough
dense locust
Doom is awesome as supplemental damage and curse
sacred idol
For sure though, if you have flurry and bounce Zeus will do WORK
dense locust
on the slower attack types
naive tusk
Yeah, Pos special takes care of that although its knockback is kinda nonexistent
sacred idol
Like I said though, if you do get Cold Fusion it's absolutely going to pay off
halcyon cedar
till now i am not sure chiron bow is not working with that boon, i know it does not work with Support Fire, the special only hit ONCE
dense locust
I like the poseidon special with the zeus/poseidon boon because I believe each arrow knocks back and thus triggers the lightning
sacred idol
It doesn't hit every arrow.
dense locust
oh it has a cd
sacred idol
But it does hit a lot
dense locust
like 3-4 times maybe?
waxen furnace
I'll pick dem special and see if ares or zeus appears first. ha
dense locust
well thats still a good 160 base lightning on top of everything else
sacred idol
Chiron with Demeter is fantastic but there is a bug where it doesn't apply chill on the +4 arrows hammer.
waxen furnace
otherwise I'll pick aphro or whatever appears
halcyon cedar
chiron i like use with artemis special XD , normal attack maybe get weak / doom /rupture
waxen furnace
oh really? good to know
sacred idol
Yeah, even with the icd, Sea Storm does a lot of damage
waxen furnace
11 arrows would mean a full chill burst per special tap. that would be niice
sacred idol
Not as much as a stacked Artemis special but it's very respectable
dense locust
its also great for crowd control
sacred idol
Yeah, if you get the hammer, f10 that demeter thing
waxen furnace
that would hurt
smoky oasis
I think he means F12
atomic panther
If you press F10 on the keyboard in game, it pulls up a bug report window
halcyon cedar
oh
digital axle
I hate getting thos really awful runs where NONE of the powers line up well
I just spent 60 minutes, on a single run, got all the way to the end, and had garbage.
dense locust
Yeah its hard for me to give up despite knowing I cant win
digital axle
died in the final final
dense locust
But also i've gotten to the end feeling like I had no chance and then ended up winning
halcyon cedar
isn't it we have the thing can change reward on chambers? :v
sacred idol
Yeah, I know the feel
dense locust
If you get 5 dashes, especially if they are athena, you have a chance
sacred idol
Not everyone has that much darkness @halcyon cedar
digital axle
I had...
dense locust
you just have to play veerrrrrry carefully
digital axle
Artemis cast, Poseidon slap, ares dash, ... and hangover special
literally nothing matched
digital axle
I was using Aegis spinny shield
dense locust
😦
digital axle
nothing was lining up
dense locust
Yeah i've had those runs quite a few times
digital axle
I started right away, got Artemis cast, "this is gonna be a good run"
"this is not a good run"
dense locust
You can always just give up and use the knowledge of the current seed
naive tusk
It happens 😅
sacred idol
Hangover special is good, poseidon attack is good ONLY if you get zeus later
dense locust
but it will destroy your streak
sacred idol
Or his blast one
dense locust
Did you have a call?
dense locust
Sometimes poseidon call becomes my main source of damage
what?
I swear I was talking to people the other night that said it reset
dense locust
If my run sucks, the best course of action for me is usually get a strong cast and up it as much as possible, and build defensively
Resetting based on the first couple rooms is extremely helpful
Actually feels like cheating
digital axle
Im new to trying cast focus
Ive been doing dash focus
and its really fun stacking curses if I can
dense locust
Cast gets +75% damage for the first couple poms
and you should stack curses for privileged to make the cast even stronger
digital axle
yep
dense locust
and then I use attack and special for secondary damage like doom or for utility
dense locust
oh man I gotta do another doom cast run
I know I've only had one of those ultra stacked doom cast runs
but they are fun
Watching hades hp just chunk down
naive tusk
What’s that doom cast?
dense locust
man I had a run the other night where I killed hades in 8 attacks
naive tusk
Doom + another status while empowering cast?
digital axle
Doom, stacking with the spell that literally stacks it for more damage
dense locust
cant remember what it was
digital axle
you can also get Weakness and the longing curse to make it repeat
naive tusk
You mean Impending Doom?
mild crag
@dense locust are you thinking of hunting blades?
mild crag
blade rifts
naive tusk
Ooh I had a run with that today. In fact, 3 XD
dense locust
If yall want to try a fun run
dense locust
eris rail with doom attack and athena dash and merciful end
mild crag
doesnt get much better than that for hunting blades
dense locust
plus 3 to casts
sacred idol
Impending is delayed doom, dire misfortune is stacking. Misfortune isn't that good though...
mild crag
or also Achilles aspect
dense locust
true
sacred idol
Athena dash multi detonates across the entire dash, correct?
mild crag
multi detonates?
dense locust
that would be gross to just send out 7 blades that are doing 100+ a tick in no time and home in on enemies
@sacred idol what do you mean by that
When you dash attack through the enemy it applies and detonates the doom constantly
and adds damage to it
naive tusk
Sounds like a fun sword build 😁
dense locust
so each volley of dash attacks through the enemy is doing 800+
naive tusk
Dashy slashy
turbid needle
Yes.
naive tusk
Oh Dong! You gave me an idea for my next run tomorrow 🤩
sacred idol
@dense locust that was what I meant
dense locust
okay so each doom and athena dash hit does 304
with eris alone
and epic doom attack
and hopefully you get extra dashes from hermes
in doom damage
sacred idol
I wasn't sure until just now whether Athena's dash detonated doom attacks once at the start, or for the ENTIRE ANIMATION
dense locust
So its probably 1k plus per dash through an enemy
sacred idol
But it's the latter, right?
sacred idol
Huh
dense locust
But i may be wrong
because that build melted everything
in which case if i was getting 6ish attacks per dash attack through an enemy
naive tusk
I think it’s once per dash because the dash damage applies only once
dense locust
its hitting 2k damage
naive tusk
And Merciful End activates when you deal a deflect damage thus once per dash
dense locust
but if you're dash attacking through the enemy back and fourth, you're dealing damage quickly
naive tusk
Thats right. Just spam dash
dense locust
Yes
its very fun
build defensively for the most part outside of that
because you're melee rail
Demter on rocket special is what I had i think
sacred idol
Oh, once. I thought it would be something insane like detonating all the doom shots in a burst
I feel like for merciful end, it isn't eris that's best though
dense locust
You can get 3 dash attacks off on an enemy pretty consistently in one round of dashes
halcyon cedar
how much max pom you guys take to push / pump the damage to certain level then will focus other boon when it reach "certain" level?
dense locust
if you get the triple shot hammer that doesnt need to reload
@halcyon cedar depends on the boon im pumping
turbid needle
I'd shoot for level 3 or 4..
dense locust
@halcyon cedar pom on artemis attack only raises the %damage by lik 8% at level 2
halcyon cedar
cus for now i don't know attack, special, cast's pom growth curve
turbid needle
Hangover and Pressure Points scale into the stratosphere.
turbid needle
Actually, yeah, level 5 sounds good.
naive tusk
Oh, Pressure Points level up is always the same so yeah 😂
dense locust
I also like raising up special damage to about 3, and things like hunters mark to about 2 - 3
turbid needle
But that's only after I've got everything at 3.
mild crag
poms are most effective on things with Strong scaling 
turbid needle
Oh, yeah, everything needs to hit at least level 2.
naive tusk
After lv 5, my artemis cast was getting about only +10 damage which wasnt too worthy imo
mild crag
Jolted is another one which has Strong scaling
halcyon cedar
artemis don't like eat fruits :V
naive tusk
Oh, I love leveling Jolted
dense locust
and sometimes its worth to take a level or two on your dash
mild crag
and that's because pom bonuses are based on a multiplier of the base value pre-rarity
mild crag
and artemis just has bad base values
dense locust
ah
Yeah i don't think i ever choose to level artemis outside of cast
or maybe special
if im desperate
turbid needle
Artemis + Chaos/certain hammers/certain Aspects = busted.
dense locust
yep
mild crag
avoiding the low damage increase issue 
tfw artemis attack on hestia and you find chaos for +90% attack or something
dense locust
rail: cluster rockets, rocket bomb, +300% damage in chaos boons, eris aspect, artemis special, privileged status...
naive tusk
Man, Artemis hates me when it comes to Hestia
dense locust
@mild crag Thats when you give up and rebuild accordingly
naive tusk
The darned thing never gives me a crit
dense locust
Get hunters mark too
I think that rail build is what I used to beat 32 heat
oh and that duo boon that multiplicatively adds crit damage
mild crag
oh yeah turns out heart rend isn't multiplicative
dense locust
Zeus on rail attack is always solid
dense locust
I've been lied to
naive tusk
Oh, we should correct the wiki!
mild crag
it's effectively the same
naive tusk
It says 150% more damage
turbid needle
Does it say 150 now?
dense locust
wiki says 50%
sacred idol
Wait what, though
mild crag
the tooltip in game says 50%
sacred idol
It calculates differently from Clean Kill
naive tusk
Last time I checked in the afternoon it was 150%
sacred idol
It's mathematically a different multiplier.
sacred idol
Sauce?
dense locust
im on hades.gamepedia
turbid needle
Ooohh.
turbid needle
So the in-game math/calculation does "+150%" but it says +50%?
mild crag
yes ^
turbid needle
Cool, thanks.
sacred idol
Clean Kill:
{
{
UnitProperty = "CritMultiplierAddition",
BaseValue = 0.15,
IdenticalMultiplier =
{
Value = DuplicateMultiplier,
},
ChangeType = "Add",
ExtractValue =
{
ExtractAs = "TooltipCritDamageBonus",
Format = "Percent",
}
},
}```So it's not multiplicative, but it's additive at triple the value it says?
mild crag
i'm talking about the engine code
sacred idol
Heart Rend:
{
{
WeaponName = "HeartsickCritWeapon",
EffectName = "CritVulnerability",
EffectProperty = "CritMultiplierVulnerabilityAddition",
BaseValue = 1.5,
ExtractValue =
{
ExtractAs = "TooltipVulnerability",
Format = "PercentDelta",
}
},
},```are we talking clean kill or heart rend
mild crag
the crit multiplier defaults to 2
and heart rend adds 1.5 to it
(and there's an additional 1 added to it effectively for the base damage)
sacred folio
The wiki about Heart Rend is... inconsistent for now. I put the number +150% on the Damage Calculation page but I didn't fix all the other occurrences (which is still +50%)
dense locust
So based on their variable names, heart rend adds 50% damage and clean kill ads total crit damage + 15% of said damage?
naive tusk
Ok so in summary, Heart Rend makes total crit damage 350% or 450%?
mild crag
450%
naive tusk
Oki
mild crag
crits deal 300% by default and it adds 150%, then clean kill adds its % on top of that
sacred folio
@dense locust Please read this page first to be sure we're on the same page (pun intended): https://hades.gamepedia.com/Damage_Calculation
sacred idol
@dense locust Clean Kill makes critical damage 315% effectively, and Heart Rend makes it 450%.
mild crag
@sacred folio bad pun stap
sacred idol
So yeah, this is backed up by the lua entries I just posted.
Paging @mild crag
Just kidding. Who uses a pager in 2020?
mild crag
hello yes i am here
sacred idol
Anyway - there is a reason Clean Kill, like Wave Pounding, isn't a multiplicative tier.
Because that would absolutely break the rarity math and lead to massive values
mild crag
that lua code doesn't actually do anything besides the display logic
dense locust
@mild crag Oh, are you calculating the 300% as 100% base damage + 200% crit?
dense locust
100% base damage being a redundant thing to say
mild crag
yes
sacred idol
DuplicateMultiplier still points to what it actually is
Although to actually modify it, do you have to edit the value directly in engine?
mild crag
duplicate multiplier is the thing which designates the pom scaling
sacred idol
Huh.
dense locust
okay then yes I was just thinking in terms of of the critical damage bonus and not the total damage
mild crag
if you want to change heart rend's bonus you have to do it in the engine code yeah
if you change that value
it will change the tooltip
but not what actually happens
sacred idol
Oh, so the luas are all hooked up solely to loc files
That's frustrating
But it does mean they could change it to mult calculation I guess
So, wave pounding and clean kill no longer have an excuse to suck :p
Buff when
naive tusk
Clean Kill is gucci 🧁
dense locust
Hey don't bash wave pounding
turbid needle
Wave Pounding is really cool in concept.
sacred idol
Not really, they're both exactly the number they say on the card :v
naive tusk
Just had it on epic last time and it was adding nice numbers
naive tusk
It was around 30%
sacred idol
Because I'm honestly curious what it does
Yeah but 330% crit?
Or 30% of 300% damage
naive tusk
My base cast damage was 200+, with Poseidon Aspect it was around 300+ so each crit added 100+ damage
Before curses
dense locust
Oh wait I was thinking of a differnt boon, screw wave pounding
naive tusk
Still, Clean Kill was the better option from bonus damage to armor or dash so yeee
mild crag
@sacred idol pls explain question again i dont understand sorri
sacred idol
Mmm it's often the least bad option
What question? I was asking Peach what the damage buff from clean kill was
dense locust
Wait im confused again
naive tusk
Oh, if theres Pressure Points or exit wounds or whatever, of course I will pick the others XD
mild crag
oh
dense locust
so heart rend again
dense locust
is it additve or multiplicative of the bonus crit damage?
dense locust
oh nevermind
naive tusk
Unless you are panicky and want to deflect all lol
mild crag
just imagine heart rend as a clean kill which says "+150% damage"
sacred folio
Heart Rend is not multiplicative. It's calculated the same as Clean Kill, just with a much bigger number.
Heart Rend's tooltip "+50%" is incorrectly interpreted
turbid needle
It's not technically lying.
dense locust
So is it 1.5xTotalDamage or 1.5xAddedCritDamage
mild crag
sacred folio
It's +150% crit damage bonus. Plain addition, just like Clean Kill.
It just happens that 300% + 150% = 300% * 150%
dense locust
but i thought crit damage was +200%
mild crag
left some relevant feedback
naive tusk
It’s as if it’s saying “hey, that 300% damage when a crit procs? I will make it 450% damage instead”
Critical damage is this:
100% (which is base damage) + 200% (bonus damage)
Total of 300%
dense locust
But the text is it increase crit damage by 50%. So if crit damage is 200% of base damage, wouldn't it multiply the the added crit damage and disregard the base
mild crag
100% (base) + 200% (normal crit) + 150% (heart rend) + XX% (clean kill)
sacred folio
Like I said, the tooltip text is wrong.
mild crag
this is all there is to it
dense locust
Oh my bad
sacred folio
Heart Rend's tooltip "+50%" is incorrectly interpreted
@sacred folio This.
dense locust
I thought people were saying it was correct
naive tusk
Nice equation Kos!
dense locust
So the tool tip should say it increases total damage by 50%
naive tusk
Exactly
mild crag
no the tooltip should say it increases the base critical bonus to 350%, or by 150%
dense locust
and really, it should be more specific that it's actually increasing all damage by 50% and not just increasing base damage by 50%
turbid needle
To be way too direct, a lot of the language of the game needs streamlining, clarifying, and reorganizing.
naive tusk
Oh wait, that would be total damage before clean kill lol
naive tusk
Yes!
mild crag
to be even more direct some of the text doesnt even make sense as to what it does
dense locust
yeah the game has its flaws but I already have 295 hours in it...
although I have left it on overnight multiple times...
mild crag
oh the game is amazing dont get me wrong
there's just a lot of hidden complexity
i think it's too obfuscated
like people will thinnk
"should i remove the increased rare chance it could make my boons worse"
naive tusk
It is true that it causes confusion. I was thinking the entire time that Heart Rend only added +50%
dense locust
Yeah, but these are the details that get hammered out in this phase. They are focused on additional content and then will refine it
naive tusk
Now I think it’s even better
dense locust
Most duo boons are worth it
turbid needle
Heart Rend is top 5 duo.
naive tusk
Hey, no Poseidon shaming 
turbid needle
Poseidon deserves shaming.
dense locust
I do hope they redesign poseidon a bit
naive tusk
Uncle Pos already has much hate
dense locust
I like the wave crashy theme, but not so much the sunken treasure theme
turbid needle
Okay, but getting his Aphro or Dio Duos in Tartarus?
dense locust
let me summon my hellish fishy buddies to wreack havoc
turbid needle
then you sell the Poseidon boon after the Fury fight
mild crag
does that make it stop working?
naive tusk
I have yet to see Exclusive Access or Sweet Nectar before Elysium 😂
mild crag
if you sell the poseidon boon
turbid needle
Nope.
dense locust
Wait REALLY?
mild crag
turbid needle
dense locust
I swear before the winter update that the collar was permanent
Which honestly makes sense to me
naive tusk
Dude, I had no idea
mild crag
selling your demeter boon breaks ice wine
naive tusk
You think they know that and might patch it?
turbid needle
Well, then I might be wrong.
dense locust
I would start every run with cerberus keepsake and I swear I'd get that permanent hp
turbid needle
Someone should get these boons and test them.
naive tusk
It will require a lot of luck getting them in the 1st half of the run
sacred folio
You can just mod the game to make your desired boons appear easier.
naive tusk
I will do that (as much as it pains me) when I get them next time
dense locust
How hard would it be for them to implement a practice arena where we can try out any combination of anything
mild crag
delete all eligible boons except the ones you want
naive tusk
I don’t know how to mod so it’s the hard way for me
dense locust
The wiki would be a flawless and accurate masterpiece in no time
turbid needle
But I thiiink I remember selling Poseidon boons and still getting straight Epics and +2 boons.
dense locust
What are we trying to test?
naive tusk
The epics can be due to the mirror upgrades but the +2 poms are evident
turbid needle
Whether or not Sweet Nectar and Exclusive Access still work if you sell Poseidon's boons.
dense locust
If selling poseidon boon that makes all future boons epic keeps its effect?
mild crag
@dense locust Get poseidon boon, get dionysus boon, get duo, sell original poseidon boon, does duo still work?
same with aphro and poseidon
mild crag
take rarity increasing things such as the chaos boon and the yarn from the well
also the keepsake will influence it still
naive tusk
Would Eurydice’s dish help as well?
dense locust
It's the same rarity as legendary right?
mild crag
duos and legendaries have the same chance to appear yeah
opal bay
Is it me or Erydice's dish that increases the rarity of already given boons is just better to one that upgrades rarity of upcoming three boons? 
naive tusk
Depends on your situation
turbid needle
You could force a bunch of Legendary/Duo/Epic spawns with the 3 rarity boost.
naive tusk
If you already have your main boons in a build that you envisioned, increasing their rarity is nice. If you are planning on getting the true stars after visiting her, then the other dish that ups the rarity is better
opal bay
In my experience it just given me only rate stuff, but maybe that's just my luck.
waxen imp
naive tusk
Speaking of shameful Uncle Pos
I love how all your boons are at least epic
Except that blue rare one. That’s the black sheep of the family
dense locust
Its so relaxing to do 0 heat runs now
waxen imp
naive tusk
But think about Meg and her quality time with her sisters
dense locust
With maxed out weapons and darkness
naive tusk
Oh my
opal bay
9 heat runs are like the great middle ground I need.
dense locust
what does the 18th level add
waxen imp
yeet
dense locust
0?
plain pewter
0.4%
turbid needle
@waxen imp What.
opal bay
Well if 23 is the amount given from 17 levels
dense locust
I'd be down if they added some sort of effect to the game when you get Hades giving you a mini lecture right before your run
In hell mode maybe
dense locust
wowza
waxen imp
if you had the dmg increase adamant rail, the poison increases further
naive tusk
Almost +94%
turbid needle
Spread Fire + Low Tolerance + Eris = 👌
naive tusk
So many ideas~
opal bay
Man imagine getting such kind of builds
naive tusk
You mean getting chill attack on rail?
dense locust
yeah doing DoT build with chill and hangover
opal bay
Chill with killing freeze in hades boss fight
naive tusk
And 💕
waxen imp
5 stacks to 8 stacks is 60% increase
naive tusk
I love how they made Aphrodite so good. One of my favourite greek goddesses 🥰
mild crag
Charmed irl
waxen imp
it was a flat 50% reduction before
naive tusk
I mean, how SGG decided to make her good in the planning since I lover her outside the game as well
dense locust
45% dodge, 43% damage reduction
turbid needle
Aphrodite nerf at the same time Poseidon speedrunning was discovered pretty solidly swapped Aphrodite and Artemis in the tier list.
naive tusk
Before getting the game, I was like “I hope she’s there and if she is, I hope she’s good”
opal bay
Wait what's the tier list
dense locust
So i just redid a seed, changed my keepsake from aphro to posei, and the chaos boons changed. Is that normal or did I choose a different route?
turbid needle
Artemis>Aphrodite=Ares>Dionysus=Athena>Zeus>Demeter>>>Poseidon
dense locust
Chaos appeared in the 4th room i think
turbid needle
Zeus spikes up above Ares on the Rail.
dense locust
Zeus rail might be my first choice for rail attack
turbid needle
Absolutely.
dense locust
Ill restart my seed immediately if im running a different weapon and the first boon gives epic zeus attack
turbid needle
But though he has Duos with all-but-one Olympian and very powerful specific builds, he's not super splashable (besides his Call) like Artemis and Aphrodite.
naive tusk
Gotta love the extra >>> before Poseidon 😂
dense locust
But getting zeus attack with jolted, and especially the duo where jolted stays for 10 seconds
turbid needle
It speaks volumes about how incredibly well-balanced this game is that Poseidon is far and away the worst Olympian and his builds are still totally viable.
It's not ten seconds, it's ten procs of Jolted.
waxen imp
combine it with spread fire and it's basically an instant 5 stack
turbid needle
Right?
dense locust
jesus thats strong
turbid needle
Depends.
dense locust
zeus attack, jolted at level 2 or 3
turbid needle
Some enemies attack bonkers fast, and that expires even more quickly.
turbid needle
Nope.
I've dropped it on Theseus right before he charged across the stage firing and he just ate 1k~ damage.
dense locust
lol
Its super strong, amazing at applying status, and it doesn't even need to be the main source of damage
mild crag
10 procs of jolted? I'm pretty sure it's 10 seconds
dense locust
I thought so too
But I really want it to be 10 procs
Although
now that I think about it
turbid needle
I thought it was 10 seconds, but then I remember seeing a boss burn through Jolted before 10 seconds had passed.
dense locust
Well i think the tooltip says 10 seconds
turbid needle
My game is still crashing in Styx, so I'm doing other stuff until the next update.
I'm 99% sure the tooltip doesn't mention time.
dense locust
but now I don't exactly trust that all the time
Jolted status does not expire on your enemies' attacks.
Jolted duration: 10 Sec.
is the wiki
marble ridge
And?
turbid needle
I'd like to see a screenshot from in-game.
naive tusk
I will take it if you haven’t gotten one till then 😋
I’m also gonna Jolt Theseus 😎
Because he deserves to be zapped
soft harbor
https://i.imgur.com/YN6GCNf.jpg this was a pretty silly one. took awhile to get the Aphrodite Legendary though
but then everyone just didn't feel like fighting me anymore
dense locust
I bet hades just sat down and browsed reddit
soft harbor
pretty friggin much
second phase he would still launch attacks though
first phase he just kinda
dense locust
And then you slipped on a banana people and cracked your head on a rock
soft harbor
wandered around
naive tusk
Poor banana person
dense locust
man aphro does work on special damage
soft harbor
i had Hermes 30% special speed too
dense locust
unless youve got quite a few chaos boons increasing special, aphro special is better than artemis special by a long shot i'd imagine
soft harbor
i just did everything to build around that one button essentially
dense locust
Or maybe its better just 100% of the time
soft harbor
having Weak curse is really nice
mild crag
@turbid needle I couldn't check in game since it would take too long but I can check the tooltips in the files and you're right, it just says "Duration 10" and doesn't say seconds or anything
turbid needle
Cool, thanks.
soft harbor
"how long does it last?"
"10"
"10 what?"
"10."
turbid needle
Dear god, it's Evangelion all over again.
mild crag
But it does seem to just be duration from what I can see
naive tusk
Does Double Strike affect Jolt?
mild crag
Yes
also they done us a dodgy
jolt always has a duration of 10 seconds
regardless of cold fusion
it'll expire after 10 seconds lol
so it just stops it fading when it deals damage
mild crag
i love how simple the logic for cold fusion is
it's just like
"when an enemy attacks deal damage and remove jolted"
"if you have cold fusion don't remove it"
JoltDurationTrait =
{
InheritFrom = { "SynergyTrait" },
Icon = "Demeter_Zeus_01",
RequiredFalseTrait = "JoltDurationTrait",
},
this is the entire definition for it lol
dense locust
Seems lazy
well i guess not, but its confusing when trying to deconstruct it
I mean the logic makes sense
dense locust
Yeah its efficient logic
My guess from their use of the variable "JoltDurationTrait" that its time based and not usage based (which is also biased that the wiki says its 10 seconds)
duration is more time related, whereas they could have used something like JoltCountTrait
if it was based on number of times used
Artemis is simple. Don't waste poms on her
turbid needle
Except for Pressure Points.
dense locust
yes
naive tusk
Nuuu her cast wants poms 😢
mild crag
JoltDurationTrait is what cold fusion is called in the code
dense locust
I'd love a run with presure points pumped to like 15%
turbid needle
Also yes, True Shot is crazy.
naive tusk
That’d take 10 poms 😮
dense locust
Right, but doesn't it make sense to call the boon that adds 10 seconds to jolt duration the JoltDurationTrait?
mild crag
My favorite in code name is Charon being BoatMan
dense locust
LUL
I'm sure the devs feel the same way about boatman
I will also never refer to Charon by his name again starting now
naive tusk
Boatman the greedy hooded man
atomic panther
*Heavy breathing* "I'm Boatman"
dense locust
Is he doing something sexual with all of those coins? Who knows, he's the creepy Boatman
Just to make sure, getting more than 1 of the required boons from each god for a duo boon doesn't increase the chance of finding it?
mild crag
No it does not
sacred folio
I recommend https://notepad-plus-plus.org/ if you're just getting started with modding / coding
waxen imp
turbid needle
Ow.
waxen imp
mild crag
I recommend vscode 
quaint gazelle
@waxen imp mannn how many hours do you have
ive got 50 and ive only completed the game about 30 times
dense locust
where are the game files located
mild crag
In the folder 
Anything in particular
Scripts directory is where most of the important stuff is
gentle bobcat
Wow the hangover weak build is awesome (never saw this duo boon)
dense locust
SteamLibrary?
@waxen imp Did you do dedicated darkness farming to get all 10?
Can you even sell duo boons? im getting screwed here
Yay finally
Confirmed that sweet nectar does not work when sold
mild crag
Did you sell sweet nectar or did you sell the prerequisite
dense locust
crap i sold nectar..
dense locust
lol
oh well, my guess is it works
Ill just email the devs
or is there a more appropriate platform that will get a decently speedy response
If it doesn't work I think that's a bad choice. Once you get a boon, it should give it's effects regardless of how it was obtained
mild crag
Yeah we don't know that's why I mentioned testing it tehe
dense locust
I also have to be careful to not get other boons that could meet the prereq
Have you looked at the code for it?
Like if you got the boon with the minimum prereqs, then got sweet nectar, then got another boon that meets the prereq
would selling the original boon negate sweet nectar or would it transfer over the prereq
mild crag
I haven't checked
I only looked at the initial requirements so far
Either way it's glitched
I had ice wine
Sold my demeter boon
It stopped working
Got a demeter boon again
It worked for one room them stopped again
dense locust
maybe this in depth of analysis is better saved for when they release
I wonder what logic they used for that outcome to come about
mild crag
sacred folio
Speaking of testing & prerequisites, here is one thing I might wanna get tested but I'm too lazy to do it myself: the prerequisite of Ares/Athena Duo boon is inconsistent when offered from different gods.
dense locust
Like the numbers are different?
sacred folio
I suggest look for it yourself since you're just starting to peek into the game's files
dense locust
Like if you get the duo through ares the doom damage is higher?
Wait nvm
thats not what you said
So you're saying its inconsistent within the code, not on the wiki
sacred folio
Yes. The wiki might need some editing but I secretly hope this just gets fixed and nobody would notice
mild crag
Nice find
dense locust
What's the inconsistency?
mild crag
I didn't realise there was different loot datums
sacred folio
Yeah. It's breaking the rule of DRY
mild crag
A few prerequisite/exclusivity things break that too
For the daedulus hammers
I didn't realise the duos did
dense locust
maybe they thought the D stood for do?
night path
For chiron, is the interaction with chain shot intended?
mild crag
Do!
dense locust
You mean how it bounces to a further enemy?
night path
Yeah
dense locust
the chiron arrows will pierce all enemies until it hits its targert
night path
I don't think thats true
night path
I've had arrows hit an enemy and get absorbed
sacred folio
It might not be intended but it does fit the description: Your Special automatically seeks the foe last struck by your Attack.
night path
Even w/o armor
dense locust
Unless there was a sneaky update recently, all my arrows pierce enemies
they dont pierce debris or level features
night path
Yeah i figured that
dense locust
They don't pierce past their target though
night path
Eh despite that I just feel that it's an underwhelming upgrade
sacred idol
Lmao @ Schpoon ranking Demeter near bottom.
Tier lists are a meme as always
@dense locust chaos boons seem to reroll no matter what, tbh
dense locust
Really? I swear I was finding the same ones when I was resetting a few times the other night
but rerolling them no matter what would be more in flavor
rancid shore
Isn't that tier list for speedrunning?
night path
I can see why demeter would be bottom for speedrunning
dense locust
Speedrunning and regular running are very different though
sacred idol
Speedruns also rank poseidon and nemesis as god tier, but at high heat nem is a lot riskier, so
It's still a meme.
night path
Poseidon is powerful against groups of enemies
sacred idol
Pepega logic to apply it to the entire game
sacred idol
I reset a seed, got identical results on boon 1, chaos in first room. New chaos set.
dense locust
Clear a room as fast as they spawn
Okay good to know
I wonder if it's the same if you have chaos keepsake
night path
Though if you want to shred bosses, you need something else like Zeus, Dio, or Ares
dense locust
Yeah my fastest run was zeus/poseidon rail
night path
Oh yeah same here
dense locust
on 15 heat hell i think
night path
With rocket upgrades you annihilate everything
sacred idol
I had others where I was out of styx in 18 but did extra runs out of greed, though
dense locust
yep
night path
Even bosses
dense locust
I haven't tried low/no heat speed runs
sacred idol
He's both the best and the worst god
dense locust
I just was trying to get the timed run out of the way for the prophecy
night path
He's only good on certain weapons/builds
sacred idol
It depends ENTIRELY on which weapon, which specific attack, and which specific boons you get
dense locust
yeep