How about boons? I don’t know which special or attack boons go well with it
#h1-builds-and-combat
naive tusk
turbid needle
Well Chaos is very versatile
Cause you instantly stack 5x something I think alot works. Zeus, Dio,
Artemis is always good imo (best?)
Ares doom works too cause shields spread to all enemies in a map
naive tusk
Hm, then I could go with the purse in Tartarus and jus pick any boons I bump into if that’s the case hehe
cursive pivot
tartarus purse is always a good go
naive tusk
Is Poseidon good with it? (Excluding bosses)
turbid needle
Yes I agree
umm
No 😛
Poseidon is never good XD
Nah honestly, it can work, you knock back already with shield so that's a bonus
It's just that, if you wanna get special damage (which you do) I feel like Pos is never that great of an option?
hollow sorrel
I like the poseidon dash with melee weapons, because it helps disrupt the enemies, but I don't think many people agree with that.
naive tusk
Oh, okay. I do feel sorry for him 
turbid needle
Oh no that is something I do agree with coffee
hollow sorrel
Dio/Ares/Demeter might be more popular choices for special
turbid needle
Actually, pos has some great stuff, I like the duo for epic guaranteed boons, I like more % of coins, darkness and hearts?
hollow sorrel
Dio/Ares especially, but having an easy way to stack chill, can help if you value the enemies moving slower
naive tusk
So apparently anyone’s special except Aphrodite’s and Poseidon’s
turbid needle
Zeus is good, if you have alot of zues
Otherwise, the lightning damage is not that much, but I really enjoy stacked zeus runs..
naive tusk
I value enemies moving slower a lot! It has helped me so much in the past and it indirectly makes me do more damage by making enemies more exposed haha
That’s one reason I love grandma 💗
hollow sorrel
I personally like Aphro on attack and Demeter on special
Aphro and Demeter also have HP-related boons, which I think helps melee weapons
naive tusk
I will take into account all of this info. I will take purse and go with the God’s I bump into (except Poseidon, poor fellow)
hollow sorrel
Sadly, they don't have a dui boon
naive tusk
I really REALLY hope they will add more duo boons for missing pairings
turbid needle
I like the aphro dio bonus with attack aphro and dio poison on special
I got a feeling SGG is planning quite some more. There is plenty of space to epand on
hollow sorrel
The only argument I can have for Poseidon, is that if you're lucky enough to get poseidon's cast, then the duo with him and Demeter is a bit interesting. You can't reliably do that every game though
naive tusk
Interesting how?
turbid needle
Pos can be so great. But bossing doesn't really feel good
naive tusk
I got it once but didn’t use it well, I think
hollow sorrel
It looks graphically interesting. I don't remember it doing a lot of damage though
naive tusk
Last run I had an epic Poseidon call with heroic wave pounding (+22% damage). It wasn’t so bad, I think 😅
Sometimes I try to get a poseidon boon early with the hopes of getting Exclusive Access or Sweet Nectar
But I always get them either on Elysium or Styx
manic ermine
The only poseidon boon I wont say is bad is his call
naive tusk
Rupture is quite good imo
turbid needle
I hate his call 😛
Rupture can be decent, I like his %of drops gained and random drop. That's always better than nothing 😛
naive tusk
Well, I’m about to start. Thanks for the help 😊
naive tusk
Goodnight 🌙
chrome geyser
@hollow sorrel i like athena for dash better for damage mitigation. I use dash attacks a lot so poseidon dash sometimes knocks enemies out of range before i hit. Still my second favourite dash though.
hollow sorrel
I flip back and forth regarding Athena. Sometimes I really want her on attack or special (depending on the weapon aspect) so I can deflect while attacking the enemy. Having her on attack and dash (or special and dash) is cool too though, assuming the game blesses me with that much luck
quaint gazelle
i like athenas dash the most because i dont particularly like the dashes where the effects occur where you dashed from/where you dash to etc
hollow sorrel
If I have Athena on a ranged attack, it sometimes deflects things without me purposely trying to deflect it
yeah... some of the new dash effect timings are awkward now, and it seems like I sometimes miss with them if I'm not careful
hollow sorrel
whichever one has the effect where the dash lands, is extra awkward. I have to know where things will be when I land from a dash? It's not as reliable as I'd hope it would be
and I'm usually dashing through an enemy, or dashing away from an enemy. I'm rarely dashing on purpose so that I land on top of an enemy. It's just not organically what I normally do with dashes
It's almost like I need to waste my first dash to dash away, so my second dash can actually hit with its effect, and hope that by the time two dashes have been done, that I don't need to immediately dash away again because I just spent a while not doing any meaningful damage
18:44 minutes
earnest ravine
18:24 iirc
plain pewter
22 mins. I'm thinking i wanna try maxing hestia to try and beat that
for the dash thing, my favorite is athena by a mile, if only because it is an extremely strong boon in the final boss
blade rift dash is starting to sound really interesting to me because of the homing/pulling boons you get with ares/arte and it possibly synergising with hermes' bonus dashes
chrome geyser
22 minutes for me.
you mean aphrodite @hollow sorrel ? I barely use dashes other than poseidon, athena. Very situationally; and mostly if I am desperate for privilige.
turbid needle
Poseidon's dash procs at the end.
chrome geyser
Blade rift dash is fun for a rift ares build. Can get pretty intense once you get the legend
Oh right. If it is offensive; i rather have it proc at the end.
like poseidon's. I love poseidon dash.
hollow sorrel
I sometimes pick Artemis dash on Zag bow and Hestia. My dash is usually stuck with whatever helps me unlock privileged though
chrome geyser
Especcialy if i am lacking crowd control; like chiron bow.
hollow sorrel
oh. yes. Aphro dash is awkward
and the demeter dash seems to not be the hitbox I'd expect either. The original dash hitboxes might have been boring, but at least they were all reliable
like, there was an EX Hydra fight I had, where it just seemed like the demeter dash should have hit the main head, but sometimes it wasn't, and I was like whatever
cursive pivot
i got 20 mins with maxed zag aspect and +30% speed from hermes
naive tusk
Back from my run and, oh boy, was it so random
Athena showed up plenty of times there so I had to take her attack, and then Aphrodite came and Zeus randomly came and I was like 😅
Funnily enough though, Aphrodite offered me her legendary in the last chamber of Styx and the fight with the last boss was hilarious! I never let him use his rays because of the charm XD
hard haven
Hey how do you get more diamonds after beating the bosses with all the weapons?
silver rover
Charon sells
1000 diamonds
1500 titan blood
earnest ravine
If you haven't maxed out the heat bounties on all of them, doing those. You can also trade up for them over at the House Broker in the lounge.
manic ermine
Use fated authority on blue exits to grab ambrosia, 10 to 1 diamond
cursive pivot
what is one usually supposed to use fateds on?
i have 2 to start atm
just use them on gemstones
or when i really need hammer / patroclus
turbid needle
Check the pinned messages, there's a post explaining it.
I don't think you can roll to Patroclus.
timber temple
is it a bug or is a piercing wave upgrade for Stygian Blade not supposed to stack with any Attack boons?
turbid needle
Working as intended.
timber temple
weird
turbid needle
I wouldn't use them on blue laurels at all, personally.
timber temple
one would think that it should, with a measly 25 base damage that it deals
turbid needle
It's better to use them to reroll to boons, or try to get a god that better fits your build.
Yeah, it's been like this since it launched, used to deal 20 damage.
No idea if SGG intends to change it.
hollow sorrel
yeah, in a game where cluster rockets exist, I'm really not sure why it would be considered too unbalanced for the piercing wave to stack with attack boons
plain pewter
hmm, well at least pierce projectiles ignore shields
timber temple
any others that dont stack that i should know about
native ether
most effects do scale
think the only things that don't always scale are Hestia and shot modifiers (spread/flurry) and Explosive Return + Chaos Shield
plain pewter
and its kinda fun to play with a bunch of side projectiles to replace actual damage scalling (chain lighting, support fire, pierce wave)
native ether
because those are definitely busted combinations that just in practice didn't work well.
well, they worked so well it made the game less diverse/fun
hard haven
Got my first legendary boon been playing for 4 days and this i finally got a legendary
Do legendary boons come more often after beating Hades?
timber temple
Piercing wave gets blocked by shieds
shields
was keeping my distance and firing them off to test it
rancid shore
piercing wave gets blocked
so sad
timber temple
unfortunately got killed before i snapped a pic
plain pewter
rip
hard haven
I found a way to pretty much immobilize all enemies with the spear you use the rapid attack upgrade and I forget the other boon but it knocks it back and stuns then then I combined that with freeze and that whole run was a cake walk
timber temple
so the only thing the boon does is make a ranged inaccurate attack
hard haven
That spear combination I had was the best one I've found so far whats the best combos of boons and upgrades u guys have found?
cursive pivot
okay, so, the eternal question
max hp vs gold
which do you guys go for?
more max hp is always my pick
turbid needle
Almost always gold.
turbid needle
Wow, thanks for me throwing me on my neck, there.
mild crag
yw
hollow sorrel
Almost always hearts (sorry)
And if I'm playing guan-yu, I might even try to use some of my rerolls to try to get even more max hp
tidal thorn
I like gold.
hard haven
Always hearts I haven't beat Hades yet so once I do I'll go for gold
earnest ravine
Hearts until I hit 175 HP, and thengold unless I'm on the brink of death.
molten delta
Hearts mostly, but if i have the poseidon's boom that grants you extra gold or the chaos one, i might run for gold
plain pewter
in the earlygame i make sure to get 1 heart
then its all money until it starts being a problem again in elysium
mild crag
My answer may be influenced by using convenience fee
Since that makes hearts worth more
hard haven
Does anyone here run sword as they're main?
timber temple
I usually go for gold and reroll on hearts/darkness
I enjoying Aspect of Hera the most so far
hollow sorrel
I used to run Nemesis as my main
timber temple
Trying out aspect of Chaos on the shield for the first time, wish me luck
hollow sorrel
good luck!
timber temple
Wait ... level one of Chaos is just a normal shield ability
The bonus seems like doesn’t apply till you upgrade
So you only throw one shield
No “bonus” at level one
hollow sorrel
erm, I remember someone else complaining about the rank 1 chaos shield.
I know the extra shield only happen after a bullrush, but I forgot what the other person's complaint was
timber temple
I mean even level one of Zeus has a different special
There is now “extra” shield until you upgrade
hollow sorrel
They mentioned the shield number was off by one, I remember that part
timber temple
It seems
hard haven
I got to the second wave of Hades with the shield and he wrecked me
timber temple
The explanation at level 1 states that “Bonus shields thrown: 1”
Which really should be 0
hard haven
Who's the best person to give ambrosia to? What's the best keepsake to get in your guys' opinions??
hollow sorrel
sisyphus is generally considered the best companion for newer players, though I think you need 10 diamonds for part of the questline
hard haven
I'm trying to find a good keepsake for my next run I got a good bit but I'm missing a little under half I make it to Hades every time but his second wave gets me alot and RNG hasn't been good to me
hardy ginkgo
just had a weird bug...
using the bow of hera, got the triple shot hammer upgrade
hard haven
And how do you get Sisyphus?
hardy ginkgo
and when i load up the cast onto the bow, they then disappear into the void. So I can shoot them once and they come back when I leave doors. But its very much a once per room cast lol
hollow sorrel
it's a long and random questline, where you talk to him like 20 times, and other people over and over, and eventually after enough nectar and ambrosia, you can pay 10 diamonds to finish the questline
if you're just looking for regular keepsakes (not companions), then Athena's dash can help a lot, and Aphro can help you take less damage. Beyond that, people are all over the place with which are their favorites
and the regular keepsakes just involve 1 nectar given to that person, it's much easier to obtain
hard haven
Ok I'll level up their keepsakes and give em a try also what do you do with fish?
hollow sorrel
There's a chef guy in the lounge that trades them for gems
I think he has a symbol over his head if you have at least one fish
naive tusk
Fun fact: I got Sisiphus’ companion last and it’s my most used companion, mainly because the extra gold almost guarantees I can buy that Titan Blood at Charon’s shop 
hard haven
I will say one thing that helps on ur way to beat Hades is upgrading ur lives I got 2 lives and run lucky tooth to get a third live it helps alot during the last couple bosses
Sisphus gives u gold and so companions fight with you?
hollow sorrel
he drops a giant boulder, that does one hit, but it's a decent amount of damage. And it gives you free health and free gold
naive tusk
And free darkness!
hollow sorrel
By default, you can use it once per game, but if you give it enough ambrosia, it can eventually be used 5 times per game
hard haven
Woah niiice
naive tusk
The boulder hits 50% of the times, but I mainly use it for the goodies haha
hollow sorrel
yeah, that's why it's most people's favorite
naive tusk
Once I have enough Titan’s Blood, I will change back to other companions. I miss them 
hard haven
Early game is it best to get darkness keys or emeralds? Is it better to focus on renovating or upgrading?
silver rover
I mainly use than to silence theseus when he starts screaming god help me!
naive tusk
I’d say in order: Keys > Darkness > Gems
Keys to unlock weapons and mirror upgrades, darkness for said upgrades, then gems for additional stuff
hard haven
Ok thanks for the help im loving the game but I get so particular with roguelikes lll
hard haven
Is there gonna be more floors in the full game or have they said?
timber temple
So far the only companion that I’ve unlocked is Skelly, but my favorite trinket to use is the shroud of Nyx (healing per darkness)
naive tusk
That one is nice when you are in a pinch 
hard haven
I can't wait to get my first companion and what's everyone's favorite weapons so far mines the shield
timber temple
Especially in post boss battles
naive tusk
My favorite weapon is the sword 🗡
hard haven
I just started using the sword it seems like it hits harder I was running the adamant rail but it seemed underpowered
Hardest decision every run for me is this someone else choose for me 💔
Ambrosia delight
Pom porridge
Refreshing nectar
timber temple
I usually go for refreshing nectar for upgraded boons
Upgraded rarity
Of future boons
hard haven
I go for that or the pom but I don't know how much the difference is in the stat boosts between levels and raritys
timber temple
I know right
naive tusk
I go for the 1st when I have only a couple of boons that I know will be the stars of my run, 2nd when I have a bunch of boons that are in sync so well, and 3rd when I’m looking for boons and want them with a higher rarity
hardy ginkgo
timber temple
Oh wait, you mean the glitch
hardy ginkgo
cant even get back there lol
timber temple
Might just be that run for you
timber temple
Huh
hardy ginkgo
yeah try it out see if you can shoot the cast through walls
timber temple
I’ll try it on my next run
hardy ginkgo
i wonder if its because i have the aphrodite crush shot
or if its just busted
ill try another run after i lose tis one
its like its taunting me lol https://i.imgur.com/yvKZNJM.png
runs going great other than this bug though
timber temple
naive tusk
That happens to me with Crush Shot as well. That’s why I don’t use Hera that much and prefer to go with Poseidon (if I want to cast) or Chiron (if I want to go with bow)
pallid dagger
once upon a time, someone told me that the cluster bomb was a good upgrade
that person lied.
turbid needle
That image ain't a spoiler is it?
pallid dagger
and upon another time, a person said that the cluster bomb upgrade was great with the rocket bomb upgrade.
that person definitely lied.
dense locust
Okay maybe I don't get whats going on here but cluster bomb and rocket bomb is probably the most broken hammer combo
its what got me my only 32 heat
pallid dagger
i will beg of you to consider what boons you had that modified that.
right now i've just got both the hammer upgrades, and all i've got is a spread of five rockets that is a) very slow and b) fires in way too wide a spread to take advantage of without being nanometers away from an enemy.
dense locust
Its a shot gun
you become melee
and hopefully the attack has chill
You get artemis on special, maybe a chaos boon or two upgrading special
Or aphrodite special
what aspect?
pallid dagger
zagreus.
as for chilling attack or art on special, i do not.
I have zeus on the special, which is far and away not enough to yoink that damage up to par.
i did try for poseidon, but he was not feeling me today.
dense locust
Yeah true
But if you're going for a special heavy damage build, that is the best combo
but I always run Eris aspect
and that just pumps that damage up further
pallid dagger
i'm intending to abuse sea storm, which is why i was going for poseidon special
he's pulling about half his weight, cuz i got that one
i would say aphro + hazard bomb would be a much more efficient damage breaker
dense locust
Is it poseidon special zeus attack?
dense locust
hehe
Yeah the opposite with cluster rocket bomb would actually be pretty good as well
Well it sounds like rng wasn't in your favor this run
pallid dagger
this is one of those frustrating runs
i am doing overall poorly and have no power options, but i am still doing good enough that i can't justify quitting. B[
dense locust
Yep
Ive been there
But a few times ive trudged on even though I was convinced I had no chance
and ended up either buying the extra upper tier resource in styx or just winning
Sometimes just saying F it and not caring loosens you up and lets you play better
I wish the contractor offered a fish tank
pallid dagger
i will live without
it would probably cost like 5,000 gems and i would break my laptop
hardy ginkgo
@turbid needle no i dont think that photo is a spoiler
pallid dagger
...............welp. game crashed.
turbid needle
Good ain't a spoiler, the game is really cool and I wanna experience story from start to finish
pallid dagger
damn, but that doesn't feel good
i was ready to say "okay a satyr will kill me but at least i have a scyllascion"
pallid dagger
yeah, it does. that's why i say he was half-pulling his weight.
half, because poseidon's boost to attack is really low, and the gun has the lowest default attack power.
but, he still got sea storm on there and the boon rarity was epic.
naive tusk
I’d say that run was to make your attack shine, not your special lol
I had a run similar to that, except with Chiron bow. Poseidon Special, Sea Storm, rupture, and second lightning strike
It melted anyone
Next time, I’d say go with what you have instead of trying to make something else work. Cluster Bomb + Rocket Bomb + a good special (mainly Artemis) obliterates atuff
pallid dagger
Sea Storm is always great
works like a charm if you can get Rupture + Jolted, so you get auto-50% damage boost
naive tusk
Yep
pallid dagger
OKAY I'M SAFE
IT SAVED MY GAME
can i call my manager, i can't make these kinds of choices
pallid dagger
i really hate this run
it's been so good. i have sea storm, i have auto-privileged status, and i have splitting bolt
but i have only one dd left
hard haven
I never get ares in a run is he just rare to find or what?
pallid dagger
lucky you
hard haven
Are you saying lucky me cuz u think i found him? Cuz I haven't seen ares since the start of the game lol
pallid dagger
no i'm saying lucky u cuz ares is the god of duds
hard haven
Oh for real u think he'd be the best for attack since he's the damn god of war lol but I just need him to complete one of my missions
timber temple
Ares is great with slow weapons like bow and shield
by the time you get a chance to hit with them again the doom stack already hit
tidal thorn
Can you have Cluster and Triple bomb?
dense locust
Also if you get the right boons, Ares cast is just clowny good
tidal thorn
+1 for Ares cast.
pallid dagger
on another run, got sea storm early
dense locust
Getting the double cast with hunting blades and viscious cycle is something you have to experience
tidal thorn
Do you all use your cast for the attack/special buff, even if you only have bloodstones?
pallid dagger
nah
it's too much hassle to try sticking enemies with a bloodstone and then monitoring how long it stays in
alright
i am less than halfway through asphodel
i have sea storm, spread shot, epic rarity swift strike, and poseidon's legendary already
this is beautiful
tidal thorn
10-13 I think.
Because you can dodge mini bosses for a few rooms, Styx can make things longer.
Longest run I've had is 77.
turbid needle
hmm
silver rover
Can you have Cluster and Triple bomb?
@tidal thorn
rocket + cluster = yes
rocket + triple = yes
cluster + triple = no
u either get 3 bombs or 5 bombs
waxen furnace
does the "your attack is faster" boon from Hermes affect the guan yu spin attack?
silver rover
does the "your attack is faster" boon from Hermes affect the guan yu spin attack?
@waxen furnace well i have yet to try it out yet but personally i think it should since you need to hold down "attack" button to spin, yes?
maybe i'm wrong
waxen furnace
yeah, but I've been burned before :p
silver rover
cos there's a shield hammer that makes bull charge faster
waxen furnace
well, I'm not really thinking of Quick Spin
what I'd imagine is the actual spin attack projectile moving faster
well, I picked it
silver rover
how it go
waxen furnace
but I have trouble telling if it's actually 20% faster :p
confirmation bias and all
silver rover
hahahaah
well i think the projectile speed should be the same
maybe the start up is 20% quicker ?
u hold down attack to charge spin, then release ?
waxen furnace
I'd expect the opposite, is anything
silver rover
whoah
waxen furnace
oh sorry was responding to an earlier message
yeah you hold down
I don't think startup is quicker though
pallid dagger
duo boons are the most frustrating thing
they fling themselves at you one run, they vanish into the ether the next
same with legendaries
waxen furnace
just unlocked shady. is it safe to pour a good chunk of resource into leveling it, or should I be saving them for another top tier summon?
silver rover
just unlocked shady. is it safe to pour a good chunk of resource into leveling it, or should I be saving them for another top tier summon?
@waxen furnace
for myself, my math tells me getting 300ish (5 uses, each use gets like 2 or 3 stacks of charons, each stack gets 20 charons) charon obals per run by spending 10 ambrosia is errrr not worth the investment haha.
i can buy titan blood for 1500 charons or diamonds for 1000 diamonds.
this means if i convert 2 diamonds to ambrosia at broker it will be 2000 charons (well, 1000 charons in a run, need 2 runs to buy 2 diamonds)
10 ambrosia is like 20,000 charons then, need 20 runs to cover back the cost.
i think i'll keep my ambrosia for emergency titan blood upgrades. 😆
lament coral
Shady is a top tier general purpose companion
silver rover
Shady is a top tier general purpose companion
@lament coral how much health does shady gives per encounter btw
waxen furnace
20 runs to break even would be fine alone. let alone all the extra damage and health
lament coral
HP gain was nerfed, I'd say about 30
silver rover
20 runs to break even would be fine alone. let alone all the extra damage and health
@waxen furnace
well i like to use than to silence theseus but that's just me 😆
HP gain was nerfed, I'd say about 30
@lament coral
ouch, what amount was it previously ?
lament coral
he also gives about a 100 gold and some darkness
waxen furnace
I ended up leveling it to 5 because I had so much extra ambrosia. gotta not save all 5 charges up though lol
lament coral
it was around 50-60 before, I believe
but it was busted
cause everyone and their grandma were using Shady
he's not restricted to specific bosses
silver rover
he also gives about a 100 gold and some darkness
@lament coral
ya sure its 100 ?
oh they buffed it to 100 per encounter ?
its 100 per encounter or per escape attempt ?
lament coral
it's per use
you can have up to 5 companion uses depending on how many ambrosias you sank in em
silver rover
yah i know shady can be used on all bosses, but i dun need companion for fights againts furies, hydra or hades (well i'm zero to low heat plays anyway)
waxen furnace
it's a free hermes boon at final shop each run. at a bare minimum
I like this a lot
silver rover
well if it is 100 per encounter and 500ish per escape attempt then it is not too bad
cos earlier i heard someone said its like 60ish per encounter
and like 300ish per escape attempt
sacred folio
Bouldy drops 2 - 3 pickups, each worth 30 coins per pickup. So it's 60 ~ 90 per use.
The data is in Scripts/TraitData.lua
Where does "100 per encounter" come from?
waxen furnace
gold boosting boons didn't seem to work 😦
I have one right now, but still got 30 per drop
silver rover
he also gives about a 100 gold and some darkness
@lament coral
Where does "100 per encounter" come from?
@sacred folio
Bouldy drops 2 - 3 pickups, each worth 30 coins per pickup. So it's 60 ~ 90 per use.
@sacred folio ah i see, thanks! so it would be like 300 - 450 after 5 encounters
waxen furnace
I reached elysium with only 2 boons. It hurts 😦
granted, one is a heroic poseidon special in a chaos shield build.
at level 4.
sacred folio
Well I was asking for a verifiable source: a data file, or a gameplay video.
waxen furnace
but still... would love a bit more boon-age
sacred folio
Also the "30 coins per pickup" is in ConsumableData.lua
waxen furnace
"Dionysus: Blight Strike, Blight Flourish, Trippy Shot, Nasty Dash, or Dionysus' Aid"
...did dio's boon names get changed at some point?
this is from the poseidon page on gamepedia
boreal prism
Dio's boon names have been changed often
lament coral
@waxen furnace you need Chaos gold boons to get the increase
waxen furnace
that is what I have
lament coral
Poseidon's only increases gold room reward
waxen furnace
I may have misread, but I'm pretty sure I saw "+30". I'll check soon
lament coral
it even increases the gold you get from vases
waxen furnace
I still have 4 charges halfway through elysium. guess I can save them for styx midboss rooms
yeah that I've observed
all the shops I've seen have been boonless
this is insane
I have 3 non-hermes boons
and am about to finish elysium
my heroic poseidon special is at lv7!
dense locust
If all yall want a fish tank for the fish you catch, go give it an upvote under feedback 😄
waxen furnace
yeah, I have 70% extra gold from a chaos boon, but only got 60 gold from bouldy
that's a shame
solemn dune
I wish they make a weapon with perry system, maybe an upgrade for the shield
waxen furnace
70% gold boon is a bit insane, though. just finished styx with 2,400 gold to spend
chrome geyser
So guan yu ranged build is VERY viable. I'm adding another hammer upgrade to the "makes guan yu viable" pool. The charged skewer. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2002348331
Was dealing around 500 damage per shot. I don't think I ever spun after first biome.
sacred idol
This is known - charged GY throw is broke as hell
dense locust
I find the charged attack of guan yu super op for everything until the final boss
but without good damage on special, its hard to land charged attacks without taking damage and at the same time it leaves you vulnerable
kind cloud
Does anyone else's character suddenly get stuck and can no longer go right? This happens at the worst possible times. It probably happens because I'm button mashing like crazy but damn...
dense locust
Can you not use meg companion against the sisters?
dim rapids
nope
soft harbor
i hope eventually that gets some pretty fun dialogue though
or maybe she'll work against her sisters if you're real... friendly with her, if ya know what i mean
that'd be neat.
dim rapids
she can't expose the fact that she's friendly with you lore-wise, so i doubt that'll happen
it's like how she can't be used against final boss along with other summons because lore reasons
soft harbor
that's why i'm saying there's some cool potential for dialogue there
if she's never able to help, just her voice saying "you know i can't do that for you" or something
but if they decide to change it if you're lovey dovey, could say something like "i'm risking a lot doing this for you"
just ideas that i wouldn't mind if it existed or not, but the little charming dialogues flesh out some really cool stuff
like Zag saying "sorry" when you Call a god that's pissed at you during a Trial
dim rapids
than probably has more of a valid reason to join because ||he can't really be punished or evicted cause the underworld is more of than's place than it is hades'||
but meg can easily be kicked out
dialogue wise it's a pretty nice touch though, could be an addition
soft harbor
THE POWER OF LOVE, GENESIS
dim rapids
for than: ||i'm pretty sure after you romance him there will be dialogue between hades and than over multiple runs where than helps you where hades finally finds out, than tells hades that he can punish him anyway he wants, but hades just lets him go||
maybe after that than can help you, but idk about that
soft harbor
yeah that'd make some pretty sweet dialogue
||hades saying "you're pushing your luck now, thanatos" or something||
dim rapids
i mean: ||if than is locked up then all the souls are kinda screwed and either hermes or charon has to do the heavy lifting, it's probably not gonna end well||
and hades knows this
opal bay
Btw I think we can talk freely without spoiler tags in here.
dim rapids
i just do it for any spoiler material to be safe
i'm not really sure what exactly hypnos does other than managing the list of the dead
errant patio
Hypnos does his best :)
dense locust
Man, when Patroclus comes in clutch with the double death defiance restore
soft harbor
yeah if i play Hydra real poorly or dash into an arrow one too many times, I start really praying for my boy Pat
otherwise i don't wanna see his face lmao
dense locust
Okay so i also cant use meg companion against hades?
Despite winning my run, that companion was trash
opal bay
Only skelly and bouldy can be used during the last fight boss
dense locust
makes sense because I use bouldy 99% of the time
HIs cute little stone face inspires me to do my best
Meg just made me feel unclear relationship vibes
dim rapids
pat is still a free room in elysum which is pretty good
i take hydralite gold even when i'm full hp to play more recklessly and clear faster
opal bay
I honestly just go with cyclop jerky, if it's viable enough
jaunty pewter
i know i've asked this before, but what are yall's fave boons on sword? i've heard artemis, athena, and aphrodite for attack (and so far had the best luck with athena) but still have yet to beat hades with the sword and i so badly want to start playing the game again with other weapons but i really want to finish the prophecy first
sacred folio
All the goddesses' boon should be fine with the sword's attack
If you haven't cleared the game with sword yet, I guess your mirror could use more upgrades?
jaunty pewter
nah, i'm fully upgraded on the mirror except for rerolls
sacred folio
Alright then. Aside from getting the right boons, the sword could really benefit from spamming dash attacks.
A dash-attack can be cancelled with another dash-attack, which makes them chained and could be a burst of damage comparing to the somewhat slow attack combo
jaunty pewter
yup, been doing that.
turbid needle
Pos sword with artemis is goat
dim rapids
merciful end on nemesis is probably the best nemesis/zag build
reef galleon
Artemis + Hammer upgrade with 25dmg-attack-button-hold works well for me
On special I usually take Poseidon boon if I have the chance. It obliterates the Styx rooms in a second when upgraded + helps keep enemies at a distance.
Dash-Attack builds are nice, but they hurt my thumb with default controller layout.
I would also recommend Hermes boons for movement or in general since the sword infamously doesn't have many evasion options so speed becomes a factor when attacking.
waxen onyx
Hey
What is rank of difficulty on the weapons from easiest to hardest?
(1 Easy and 4 hardest)
For me from the 13 h of gameplay:
1 Shield
2 Bow
3 Spear
4 Blade
tidal thorn
Sword is the hardest, by far, Shield is easiest, everything else is around the same.
elder arrow
If I perform a charged-up shot after dashing with Coroncaht, does that remain a dash-strike (ie. affected by dash-strike modifiers) or only if i do a quick attack after dashing?
chrome geyser
1 Shield
2 Sword
3 Bow
4 Rail
5 Spear (mostly because i try to do guan yu only)
@elder arrow there is a tiny window where the charge is super fast. I think as long as the charge is fast it counts as dash-strike.
tidal thorn
Yeah, you can't "hold" the dash strike on the bow. Use it or lose it.
dim rapids
bow is arguably the hardest at 32 heat, but it's pretty doable at low-medium
chrome geyser
So i have been running chiron at heat ~10 and i think depending on the boons its pretty neat. Very boon dependent though. (Run it with max overtime; +40%)
i used to be so scared on the sword; now i do only dash-strikes on the sword as attacking. (Dash-strike damage is unaffected by world splitter and flurry slash btw) Bypasses attack speed pretty much. Does not do thrust attacks but still, pretty powerful.
silver rover
Hey
What is rank of difficulty on the weapons from easiest to hardest?(1 Easy and 4 hardest)
For me from the 13 h of gameplay:
1 Shield
2 Bow
3 Spear
4 Blade
@waxen onyx
ops sorry
meant to press shift enter instead of enter
for me its
after some upgrades, it is
- hestia railgun
- zag shield
- chiron bow
- guan yu spear (still testing out the first run)
- zag sword
silver rover
I think bow is the hardest to use effectively
@mild crag its fun at zero to low heat i guess
mild crag
Sword is kind close to the hardest too since its difficult to use without taking damage
But there's not really much to it, it's just like not that great having such small range
At low heat where damage is less of a concern its fine
trail meteor
railgun is easier witchout upgrade
schield is second becouse you need to lern how to block witch it
then is bow- you need, in ,my opinion, Hera version to be op but then is easy as railgun
then spear -good but need strong dedal upgrade for easy win
chrome geyser
One thing i dont like about the spear is spin feels unusable on high heat.
trail meteor
and last sword hardest because its not only you must go close but its range is so small, and had worst special attack(to be true this is worst part of it
chrome geyser
And both guan yu and hades aspects focus on spin
chrome geyser
i agree with the sword. But it is good aoe damage for being swarmed.
I focus more on HP than on poms/gold on all my melee builds for that reason. Sometimes i wanna sacrifice health.
To get the most out of the sword with the special.
I mean, before the update from daedalus it it so extremely slow. And it animation cancels on hit, and you need to be in the middle (or in sight for gy) to apply it. If something is unusable without the hammer, it is bad design for me.
primal mica
Just a small question: Can weak effects stack?
turbid needle
Charm does not count for Privileged Status.
silver rover
Just a small question: Can weak effects stack?
@primal mica no
potent wedge
so i'm sitting around the 13-15 heat area on hell mode. Clears with the gun, bow, shield, and sword come easily, often without loosing a death defiance if it's not the sword. Getting wins with the spear has been... difficult though. Currently unless i get explosive launcher (turning the spear special into rockets from the gun) I have incredible difficulty completing runs with the spear. Is this a common issue or could it be i'm approaching it wrong.
primal mica
@silver rover Thanks!
mellow rune
Anyone that downvoted my feedback* about death defiances that would be so kind as to tell me why? I'm curious about other perspectives...
brave cobalt
I found a bug. After improving the first aspect of the spear from level 4 to 5th, its throwing range is greatly reduced. I even checked then again, loaded the earlier save, and it really is.
mellow rune
please report it with F10 in game
pallid dagger
i wanna cry
brave cobalt
I did
pallid dagger
i came so close to beating hades but then those satyrs
mellow rune
losing a run to a controller disconnect is HARD, I feel you man
potent wedge
@mellow rune while DD's are healing adjacent, they're not healing. They come into play at low life totals and interact with effects that also occur at low life totals. adding this would change the dynamic of play as what was once a pure 'back from the edge' mechanic, can quickly become a 'play it safe' mechanic
or to put it in a simpler way, it doesn't add much, and possibly homogenizes a neat effect into other playstyles.
primal mica
I just received nectar from an Obol trove. Is this random or what does trigger that?
plain pewter
i just got a disgustingly good run with blade
so much unbelievably good RNG throughout 17 mins
chrome viper
and a bunch of epic boon apparently
prime knoll
Nice! Divine Protection is sooo good
dim rapids
i was trying to get exposed for the privileged status
instead i built athena up to legendary
velvet basalt
god I love critstacking so much
chrome geyser
@primal mica rare but random. Cherish it.
primal mica
Thank you!
chrome geyser
@trail meteor i have been rage quitting on GY when I don't get the spin charges faster daedalus upgrade. But I just demonstrated myself that I don't need need it on GY. Still my weakest weapon right now; so I'm forcing myself to change that. Still like achilles better than GY I think; i like the "zippity zoppity now i'm on this side of the enemy" and the huge damage boost to casts from that.
I do wish the special for achilles did not have a charge up. I want to kinda use it like a dash; but the delay between press and throw throws me off so much.
@pallid dagger it gets better in time. My reflex is to dash laterally whenever i hear them spit. Does not work all the time if i don't have athena dash against the elites. If you get poisoned; don't go the "ah i gotta heal NOW" route; just heal asap WITHOUT putting yourself in danger of the giant vermin and the snakestones. Hits from them will hurt more than the poison for a few seconds. Poison looks scary; but the damage it deals is not high.
dim rapids
you can purely win a run just view charged skewer on GY btw
i remember having a few high heat runs carried by charged skewer + artemis special
opal bay
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583419755608801312/680090318334722099/20200220193535_1.jpg what should I better pick?
primal mica
Flurry Fire, if you'd ask me.
velvet basalt
man, yesterday I was at my absolute lowest for being unable to beat the final boss without the shield
then I get home from work today and beat him three times with the spear, then the rail, and then the nemesis sword
opal bay
okay this is kind of ridiculous
how come brightsword hit me twice, if after the first time the broken spear activated?
and I lost a run on that hit too.
so I suppose lesson learnt
broken spearpoint doesn't active instantly so there is room to get hit again
formal jackal
Rocket bomb is amazing when you pair it with the one where you can shoot the special 3 times in quick succession
dim rapids
rocket bomb
always go rocket bomb
i feel that the attack improving hammers on rail just kinda sucks
formal jackal
Eh
Depends on what kind of boons you have
if you have doom, I'd go for special
if you have things that prock from quick succession hits, go for ammo capacity and fire rate
Flurry fire is disgusting with Artemis's support fire, all of Zeus's per attack abilities, and Dionysus's hangover effects
dim rapids
it's good with fire and zeus but then you're kinda not using hestia which is like the best aspect
manic ermine
Spread fire is good
formal jackal
Idk, getting any of those effects effectively doubles your dps output at a minimum
dim rapids
i personally feel spread fire is arguably one of the worst choices
formal jackal
If you have aspect of Zagman fully capped, the amount of shots you can pile in is RIDICULOUS
And you don't need to worry about the spread with flurry fire
Extra ammo, faster dps, more reliable spread
dim rapids
what i dislike is no stagger on spreadfire
you usually will trade hits
especially at overtime
formal jackal
THAT I hate about the weapon
I wish there was a boon that increased stagger time, and if you don't have a stagger duration (The gun) you get one for like +0.2 seconds
chrome geyser
doesn't zeus stagger? It looks like it does. I can never tell 100% cause so many particle effects.
formal jackal
I think the best thing that comes close is the jolted condition?
chrome geyser
if im on MK; i tend to not get the rocket launcher anymore.
formal jackal
Dunno if the jolt damage staggers
chrome geyser
i love it; but i benefit from bomb targetting more i think.
since you control where projectile will expire
formal jackal
I guess, if jolt staggers, continually adding stacks means they can't attack, meaning it's a stagger
chrome geyser
on controller it is like a great boost to accuracy so ill get it
@formal jackal that may be the case
always jolted for uncle zeus for the P R I V I L I G E
dim rapids
i'm pretty sure jolt only staggers after they actually launch their move out
which means you still trade
rocket is so good vs other options, 100 base damage, instant damage unlike bombard, don't really have much downsides other than for eris maybe
hollow sorrel
I’d pick rocket with Eris. It can get Eris’ bonus damage, for even more powerful rocket damage.
dim rapids
yeah it's still good
the only downside is that you have to be up close or shoot the rocket into the wall
turbid needle
I appreciate Rocket Bomb a lot on Flamewheel rooms.
plain pewter
i was just playing a ridiculous demeter/arte cast build until i decided to take this screenshot in a trial of the gods room
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/365529259047125003/680109442465136666/Hades_00015.png
then the game crashed and all the progress got lost, worse yet is that in that room i got the extra cast boon.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/365529259047125003/680109182321557535/1c0q2y.png
also not sure if dual shot actually works as intended with demeter's cast, i might have to test it
either way... OOF
limpid coral
the crystals just overlap so its not very clear theres two
chrome geyser
@dim rapids ; i tried to check it; and it looks like enemies get lightninged immediately before the attack begins; so if it's lethal damage; their attack doesn't hit you. Did not do extensive testing though; so take it with a grain of salt. (maybe i was far away from the bloodless; on which i was testing.) But wait; that would also mean cold fusion would disable enemy attacks if jolted also staggered enemies. We need testing.
dim rapids
yeah ik, but it has to be lethal damage
most of the time on rail you aren't doing lethal damage
chrome geyser
we need a slider that disables one type of enemies so I can remove flamewheels from the game. Just. So annoying.
I mean when jolted does lethal damage; not your shots.
fallow niche
He nearly beat Tisi earlier, like by a sliver, I'm actually surprised he died @turbid needle
sacred idol
F
opal bay
I really need to learn how to even do 32 heat runs tbh
or at least learn and get used to what a filled 32 heat gauge looks like
chrome geyser
This is the reason i would not ever do no choice. Actively removes the build aspect of the game; which is a big portion of the fun.
turbid needle
Oh, wow.
naive tusk
Does anybody know if Poseidon’s Wave Pounding is unlocked by having any specific boons? My assumption is that his attack, special, cast, dash or Aid unlocks it but I’m not 100% sure
In 1 run I only had his Aid and Wave Pounding appeared so maybe?
chrome geyser
I would like a heat option; slain foes toss inferno bombs at you and foes getting dodge chance. And less of "lol what if we take away features you are already using". I hate those type of things in roguelikes. For example; i hate the "don't do this for the whole game" achievements in sLay the spire.
Wave pounding is tier 2
plain pewter
what if instead of bombs its like the particle things from transistor
i mean there's already a template for it via the green hydra's spawns
chrome geyser
So needs one of the main boons. Cast, wrath, dash, attack or special
naive tusk
The wiki doesn’t list it so I wanted to make sure
naive tusk
Since I’m making a graphic sheet of boons 🙂
plain pewter
the cells when you defeat an enemy in transistor that then spawn a weaker enemy
naive tusk
Thanks 
chrome geyser
Oh right. It's been a while since i played Transistor. And I liked it. I should give it another go sometime.
@naive tusk you are doing great work then. BTW i pulled that info from wiki; i know it's not stated but it says it's tier 2 so i inferred.
naive tusk
Ah oki
sacred idol
Elysium literally has the Cell mechanic, but with more HP
chrome geyser
they are not weaker, to my dismay.
I'm just going to put that in the wiki btw
What is the green hydra btw? Do we have an enemy that splits in Hades and I'm having a brain fart right now?
bright mulch
I wonder if instead of removing choices when you get boons no choice limits your max number of boons
You'd have to change the name but it might be interesting and give more granularity for balancing whereas you can't really balance the 2 ranks of no choice
naive tusk
I tried to modify the chart at the wiki but I didn’t know how to add cells in that table
bright mulch
So highest rank could be anywhere from like only 3 utility boons to maybe only the four core boons
sacred idol
that'd be far more interesting
chrome geyser
you click edit, and click on the little arrow on the beginning of a row. It has a context menu with "add row below"
Boons would use a rework. Have like multiple slots that you can fill; not for attacks but for utilities.
And allow you to get 3 legendary (including duos).
sacred idol
rather not have those limits as a base mechanic
chrome geyser
I have been theorycrafting in my head how it would work out.
Right now; builds are very luck based; with no chance to reroll. Power levels accross runs fluctuate massively. I just want a way to average it out.
sacred idol
It'd feel like an entirely different game if it were overhauled like that at base
chrome geyser
It also feels bad when I know I want a certain legendary and think it will be fun; spend all my fated authorities and a trinket slot to guarantee it; only to be offered an exchange, an utility and a boon that does not even work with my current loadout.
I don't know how to make it so that i can semi-consistently build towards something; because that is what fun is for me.
Let chances deal your initial hand; and have enough agency to mold your destiny. That seems more fun to me.
Fated authority currently is not enough agency.
naive tusk
@chrome geyser you can check how many uses a companion has left on the upper left corner (on top of your boons). There will be a number with a 🔄 symbol on it
dim rapids
32 heat runs are pretty brain dead on shield, the rest are way harder
also get athena dash and any athena boons in general to make your life way easier
and it just so happens that most strong builds use athena
chrome geyser
I know the icon; but I never saw numbers. Only the stars.
Maybe it's a bug with mine?
naive tusk
Maybe. I can send a screenshot next time I log in to show it to you if you want and see if it’s the same with yours or if it’s missing
chrome geyser
No i checked my screenshots; it's there. I just never noticed it then.
Which is odd because i remember actively looking for an indicator on the icon.
jaunty pewter
i didn't get a screenshot but i finally beat hades w the sword! merciful end/poseidon special/festive fog babeyy
now i will never play sword again
naive tusk
Congratz! 🎉
hard haven
Nice im still trying to beat Hades with any weapon lol
hardy ginkgo
Nice im still trying to beat Hades with any weapon lol
@hard haven youll get there dont worry
i used to struggle with the hydra and now pretty easy lol
hard haven
@hardy ginkgo how many tries did you have until you beat hades
hard haven
I think I'm at like 20 right now I came so close the last time I had him half way into his second phase
jaunty pewter
i recommend using whatever weapon you feel most comfortable with (though shield, imo, is the best, and it can block his lasers) and use keepsakes! lucky tooth and broken spearpoint are both great for styx.
prime knoll
I left some feedback earlier about dual boon rooms and would like to hear what other people think of them.
I like getting two boons
I like the challenge presented in those rooms
I don't like that it's presented as choosing one god over the other (supported in narrative) because you always get both, which seems like something the gods should recognize. To me it makes the choice almost meaningless; I wish it were more impactful.
I also don't like that the gods' boons being there together doesn't imply any kind of association between them- whether collaborative (joining forces to get you out of the UW) or competitive (vying for your favor/loyalty).
I think something more could make those rooms really meaningful beyond being 2 boons (that are also guaranteed to not be duo boons).
naive tusk
At first, I thought I had to choose 1 and dismiss the other. Then, I found out I could have both and since then it has been a matter of whose attacks I’d rather suffer before getting both. I’m ok with how it is right now, but I think it’d be more thrilling if you are guaranteed an epic or heroic from the god/goddess you chose 1st and the 2nd god/goddess doesn’t grant you their boon and instead just attacks you as it currently happens
Not really saying it should change, just that it’d be more exciting, that’s all
(And yes, I think it sucks you don’t get duo boons from that room)
prime knoll
I agree with both sentiments there.
runic crown
Flavor-wise, I really enjoy the 2 Boon rooms since it really shows how mercurial the Olympian Gods truly are and that their allegiance can change on a dime!
naive tusk
They are so whimsical
prime knoll
The thrill is somewhat lost knowing that the god you chose isn't special at all. Your choice doesn't show your favor, just that the one you (effectively) picked second got grumpy.
runic crown
Ive learned that I should never refuse Demeter or Artemis since I am terrible at avoiding their wrath
prime knoll
I agree with the mercurial thing for sure, which is basically how I imagine it right now. It just leaves out why there were two god boons chilling next to each other in that chamber. Like were Ares and Athena debating who Zagreus likes more and here they are presenting that question?
naive tusk
I always pick Athena 1st because, oh boy, does her deflects make me miserable
Heck, imagine if they also guarantee you their legendary if you already have the required boons for them. Now that would make me seriously consider who to pick
runic crown
It would be super interesting if the god you picked first gave better boons and the one you didnt pick either stopped giving you boons for the rest of the run or if there was an internal tracker with the gods' favor
prime knoll
I have a loyalty thing for Artemis even if I don't want her buff, but it's all on my end since it has no bearing on anything in the narrative.
runic crown
I actually avoided the double boon room sinceI had to pick between Dionysus and Demeter... I wanna go with the sexy god but I fear the wrath of the latter just as much
naive tusk
If they stopped giving you boons then it would be breaking people’s intentions with builds (like if I’m collecting Aphrodite & Dionysus’ boons and suddenly I cannot get any other boons from the ones I already collected, making me a bit grumpy)
Highfive about Dionysus being a hottie 💜
prime knoll
I feel like Poseidon's got Dio beat 
runic crown
Hmmm... True! On both ends!
Poseidon gave me the campy Aquaman vibes but I was living for him too!
prime knoll
I really like that 'cutting you off' idea. It's like those moments in companion games where they think you're courting them and are all like "You have to choose!" except here it makes sense with the Olympian gods!
naive tusk
Poseidon is also a 💙
Pretty sure that Artemis would do that lore wise 😂
I love how she responds to you when you pick her 1st
runic crown
@naive tusk Does make a good point though. I would hate it if I stopped getting boons from one of the two gods I was building
patent tiger
I could possibly see this being a plausible Pact of Punishment thing. It be fun to see even the Olympians pulled into the Pact's rules.
prime knoll
@naive tusk I liked Artemis more and more as I got through her dialogue, but then I started to realize how much she reminds me of my ex-fiance and had an awkward moment. 😅
@runic crown THat's exactly why I think I would like it- or at would like to try that or have a chance for that to happen.
naive tusk
Big oof
frozen canyon
Does anybody else think that Aspect of Hestia needs a nerf? lvl 2 + deadly shot = easy run. Any other boons or whatever just make already certain victory even easier. I think that removing special attack for it may do the trick and putting reload for special button might do the trick since it's so important to manually reload all the time.
Btw love Artemis too
She's a sweetheart.
prime knoll
I suggested moving it back to a hammer with a flat 80 damage and 1 shot clip, but nooo
silver rover
nope, hestia railgun is fine.
no need to nerf it.
frozen canyon
I recon with it's current state at lvl 5 it will become BFG
naive tusk
I think it’s ok 😅
prime knoll
I don't use it for the same reason I don't use Zeus shield- it's effective, it's just clunky and unfun to actually use
frozen canyon
10/10 it's okay
hard haven
I think the railguns fun it was my favorite for a while until I ran shield and oh boy do I love shield now lol
frozen canyon
It's no good for a rogue lite to have so much efficiency without requirement of any synergies.
Rogue games are all about that and just a gun with one boon makes such an output that it's a bit too much. And I thought that Guan Yu is the strongest at first.
prime knoll
@hard haven for clarity, I don't mean the railgun or shield in general. I just mean those aspects. I use the adamant rail more than any other weapon.
I find Guan Yu easier to use, personally
frozen canyon
Rail by itself is okay. It's Hestia which needs adjustments.
hard haven
@prime knoll so you enjoy using it but think it's unfun to use or am I misconveying your message?
prime knoll
I jumped from 7 heat on rail to 19 heat with Guan Yu and got it first try.
frozen canyon
Guan Yu requires rather careful positioning and timing. Hestia does not rely on it at all. Also it is very important which Deadalus upgrades you apply with Guan Yu. Hestia does not care.
prime knoll
@hard haven the Hestia aspect (empower shot after reload)- yeah, more or less. I like the sniping but could go without the other 11 shots; just auto-reload after each shot.
silver rover
Guan Yu requires rather careful positioning and timing. Hestia does not rely on it at all. Also it is very important which Deadalus upgrades you apply with Guan Yu. Hestia does not care.
@frozen canyon
hestia requires one to manually reload after each hestia empowered shot.
guan yu does not.
prime knoll
I want to understand what the resistance to Hestia changes is. For instance, if you think it's fine, do you literally think that every single piece of how it levels, works, etc. is so okay that any change would make it worse?
silver rover
@hard haven the Hestia aspect (empower shot after reload)- yeah, more or less. I like the sniping but could go without the other 11 shots; just auto-reload after each shot.
@prime knoll
the remaining 11 auto shots is kinda like tf2's sniper rifle.
hestia shot = aimed shot
remaining 11 shots = fully auto
I want to understand what the resistance to Hestia changes is. For instance, if you think it's fine, do you literally think that every single piece of how it levels, works, etc. is so okay that any change would make it worse?
@prime knoll
i like the 150 base damage at level 5.
there is not need to fix what is not broken.
frozen canyon
And? Is that too much execution? Consider the output. It's around 500 dmg in one hit on average with Deadly Strike. Easy antiboss build.
naive tusk
But the critical doesn’t always apply
prime knoll
It feels like a waste since those other 11 shots still don't add up to the one you fired first, and you could have reloaded and shot that big one again in that time.
naive tusk
I have tried it and it rarely triggers for me since I’m unlucky
Which is why I don’t pick Artemis Strike with Hestia haha
silver rover
It feels like a waste since those other 11 shots still don't add up to the one you fired first, and you could have reloaded and shot that big one again in that time.
@prime knoll
doesn't matter. the 11 remaining shots are still useful to finish off already weakened enemies.
frozen canyon
If it would allways apply it would be broken.
It applies just enough.
I felt bad for how quickly and easily I beat Dad with it.
naive tusk
That’s good
hard haven
I'm trying to decide which weapon to upgrade any suggestions I like all the weapons so its hard to pick one to focus on lol
naive tusk
Dad is an emotional bully 
frozen canyon
No effort. Just keep running and hitting empowered shots. Crit's will pile up and.
hard haven
@prime knoll is there a boon that would auto reload or an hammer upgrade cuz that would be awesome
naive tusk
There’s Delta Chamber. You won’t need to reload anymore
(I think it was called Delta Chamber)
prime knoll
nah, the closest thing right now would be Delta CHamber's 3-shot clip with "no reload" but that can't be used with Hestia and it doesn't count as a reload.
unless I'm mistaken
naive tusk
It doesn’t count, no
soft harbor
I've been too afraid of ruining Hestia aspect to take delta chamber to find out lol
frozen canyon
Other aspects are much more balanced. E.g. you'll have to do more synergies to make Hera work. Athena's Cast with it is very strong. Add Deadly Strike again and shots become really Juicy. But it still requires charging aiming and stuff.
With Hestia you're like a Rambo LOL
prime knoll
for any version of the rail with a one shot clip or semi-auto, [Hold Attack to charge your shot, increasing crit chance] could be cool.
soft harbor
I wouldn't be surprised if hestia went down to like 120 or even 100, because I do think it's pretty strong too
frozen canyon
Exactly
prime knoll
rather than drawing back a "stronger arrow," you'd be aiming more precisely
soft harbor
But it also loses out when you're using the blue hearts on enemies
frozen canyon
100 dmg should be lvl 5 output. Not lvl 3
soft harbor
Whatever that Pact is called
silver rover
what's with all the hestia hate
frozen canyon
150 is ridiculous. Imagine the crit with this base dmg
soft harbor
Immediately nerfs Hestia aspect
frozen canyon
Now add a Chaos upgrade to base attack dmg and stuff like that.
soft harbor
As for now, hestia is by far my favorite rail aspect, godbless that nuclear bullet
naive tusk
Zagreus’ Shield isn’t balanced imo
silver rover
150 is fine, you need to manually reload after each shot
naive tusk
10% mitigation doesn’t help too much 😅
prime knoll
@silver rover for my part, I don't consider it hating Hestia aspect. I love its functionality in general.
silver rover
10% mitigation doesn’t help too much 😅
@naive tusk
well it used to be 15%
prime knoll
Manually reloading seems like a tedious gate for allowing 150 base damage on a shot
naive tusk
At 250 HP it would mean just an extra heart, which really doesn’t add much to my plays
silver rover
nerfing everything fun would make the game unfun.
frozen canyon
There is no hate. The game needs to be interesting. Whenever I find something as strong or even stronger tha Guan Yu (which is balanced with taking at least half of your life away) I sence balancing issues.
soft harbor
Shield carries regardless, Zag aspect is probably the most hand-holding just in case you're still getting hit a lot
naive tusk
Meanwhile Zeus and Chaos add more to my repertoire
silver rover
There is no hate. The game needs to be interesting. Whenever I find something as strong or even stronger tha Guan Yu (which is balanced with taking at least half of your life away) I sence balancing issues.
@frozen canyon
well i think hestia is pretty balanced with the need to manual reload
hollow sorrel
I mean like, if you think a weapon is too easy, you could increase the heat
frozen canyon
Having to click right stick before fire button is not balancing
You're just lazy and not very used to Rogue Lites I guess.
hollow sorrel
Hestia is one of the very few weapon aspects that can meet the minimum dps requirement of high heat runs
frozen canyon
Just play like 20 runs with it and find how fast it will become boring
soft harbor
Idk about boring, I think it's pretty fun
But I would think it's fun even if it was like 50 damage less probably
frozen canyon
All aspects must be fun.
silver rover
Hestia is one of the very few weapon aspects that can meet the minimum dps requirement of high heat runs
@hollow sorrel
i see. i dun really know about that since i'm mostly a zero to low heat player
hollow sorrel
Like, I kept rerolling game seeds, until I was able to stack the ever-living crud out of the attack boons for the zag bow, and it still took 7.5 minutes for the third biome, when I was very aggressively attacking everything.
prime knoll
Balance works on two (or more) axes- accessibility and master-ability. Hestia's 150 damage goes off the charts on master-ability (skill ceiling/technical skill) while falling a little lower (I imagine) on the accessibility line due to the constant manual reload in addition to Attack and Dash (and Special or Cast if you're using those).
hollow sorrel
Having the game the RNG system, just to get enough dps to complete high heat runs, is sort of terrible game design
runic crown
@frozen canyon not all aspects should be fun for everyone. That’s how we have a good variety. Some you enjoy, some you don’t.
frozen canyon
I didn't suggest removing it or smth. Is adjusting it's properties too much? I even suggested to remove it's special instead of nerfing it's dmg in the first place.
silver rover
I didn't suggest removing it or smth. Is adjusting it's properties too much? I even suggested to remove it's special instead of nerfing it's dmg in the first place.
@frozen canyon
well, you may think there is something wrong with it, but others may not necessarily agree with ya
soft harbor
Without the rng, the game losses its replayability by a gigantic margin, coffee
hollow sorrel
Like, you understand the rng literally makes many games unwinnable at high heat?
like literally unwinnable
soft harbor
how high heat are you talking
hollow sorrel
32
soft harbor
don't use the timer one
frozen canyon
I enjoy everything so far. I just find Hestia making it's special into a negligable gimmick with it's base dmg.
soft harbor
that's like the nature of roguelikes
prime knoll
@silver rover The same works in reverse. Who is "right"? The majority?
I posit that what we suggest as changes (or at least describe as potential problems to address) are not guaranteed to remove what you find fun about the Hestia aspect.
soft harbor
sometimes you pick up a rocket launcher on the earliest room, sometimes a stick
hollow sorrel
Unwinnable games isn't the nature of roguelites
soft harbor
i think you're stretching the definition of unwinnable
silver rover
in one of my earlier hestia railgun run, i actually did more damage with final boss in the end with special,
the hestia shot is mainly for earlier levels before i got the upgrades for the special.
https://i.imgur.com/5iWulKr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l4ouHgx.jpg
my hestia dash shots was doing 605 damage (before boiling blood, priviledged status)
my triple rockets do like 458 x 3 damage
soft harbor
triple rocket is some fun stuff
silver rover
I enjoy everything so far. I just find Hestia making it's special into a negligable gimmick with it's base dmg.
@frozen canyon
i still use my special bomb when i'm using hestia
soft harbor
i pray for triple rocket any time i take the gun regardless of aspect
prime knoll
@soft harbor @hollow sorrel I think maybe there's exaggeration on both ends. It probably isn't the RNG so much as some of the boons being over or undertuned, resulting in situations that feel unwinnable (particularly when compared to a previous, very lucky run with overtuned boons).
soft harbor
the game even lets you control what gods show up with trinkets
hollow sorrel
The games are literally unwinnable with any tight deadline, and without the deadline, you're probably stuck putting points in no choice and customs, to further make the rng worse
prime knoll
triple rocket and cluster rocket are way strong. Honestly, the rocket could probably get bumped down a little to 90 or 85 or something.
I almost always grab the rocket if it's available
hollow sorrel
and even without the deadline, if you don't get lucky enough with the boons, it might take like 10-20 seconds to kill those regeneration monsters in the third biome
silver rover
@silver rover The same works in reverse. Who is "right"? The majority?
I posit that what we suggest as changes (or at least describe as potential problems to address) are not guaranteed to remove what you find fun about the Hestia aspect.
@prime knoll
well i think everyone is just voicing out their opinions.
some think somethings need to change.
others may think that things no need to change.
hollow sorrel
and then you might struggle to do enough dps to kill the little blob things before they regenerate
soft harbor
sometimes RNG will body you anyway, but it's better for the game to be unforgiving at crazy high heat (aka difficulty); than for it to lose considerable replayability at all levels of gameplay
silver rover
triple rocket and cluster rocket are way strong. Honestly, the rocket could probably get bumped down a little to 90 or 85 or something.
@prime knoll nuuuu dun touch my rockets
100 is good
rockets have slower reload time than nades
prime knoll
and are way easier to use
silver rover
not really
prime knoll
At least on gamepad
soft harbor
oh they're way easier to use
soft harbor
are they slower reload time?
silver rover
yes, i find rockets slower reload time
soft harbor
it feels like since they go off so quick, they're faster
prime knoll
the targeting for the lob doesn't account for enemy movement, so it misses all the time
the rocket just hits stuff and does more damage
hollow sorrel
I feel like I can hit with way more rockets than the default circle-on-the-ground attack though
soft harbor
rocket is one of my favorite hammer upgrades
prime knoll
the travel time and gamepad targeting make it kind of useless for me, so if I want to use special, I have to take rocket/cluster/hazard so it will hit something
I imagine the targeting for KBM makes that a little nicer- doesn't mitigate the travel time, but leading foes goes a long way
hollow sorrel
The PS4 controller can move the special targeting
soft harbor
yeah i think gamepad is part of the reason the grenade isn't as fun to use for me too
prime knoll
I find it sticky- it starts the reticle on a foe and wants to stick to them/move very slowly (usually slower than they are walking at me)
soft harbor
even manipulating the dropzone, it's kinda sluggish
prime knoll
I think this merits feedback
soft harbor
i don't know what solution it could have on pad though
maybe faster movement under player control?
hollow sorrel
I do wish there was an option to greatly increase the speed that I could move the targeting
soft harbor
i like that it attempts to autolock
hollow sorrel
I like that it tries to find a good default landing zone, but I'd like the option to zip the circle around if I wanted to
soft harbor
yea, maybe a speed increase on player control would help
prime knoll
Here's what I was about to send:
On gamepad, aiming with the rail's special is sluggish and generally starts targeting somewhere I don't want. It starts the landing zone on a foe and sluggishly repositions from there, usually not fast enough to lead the enemies I want to hit.
For the most part, I think I'd be fine with the targeting starting on me and repositioning from there (probably a bit quicker than it currently does).
earnest ravine
Sorta like a sensitivity setting for the ground targeting thing? because that would be really nice.
hollow sorrel
yeah
soft harbor
i suppose the same feedback would apply to Festive Fog too
prime knoll
aye
earnest ravine
Festive Fog is what got me thinking about it, mainly. It still is really annoying to control sometimes even after getting used to it.
soft harbor
as much as i conceptually like that cast, it's not super fun to utilize on pad
prime knoll
HeraBow4Lyfe
hollow sorrel
the default special at least doesn't seem to cause a noticeable action cooldown, so I sometimes just randomly hit the special button while I'm doing stuff, and if it hits it's cool, but if it doesn't then it's ok because I didn't lose dps by using the special
prime knoll
I generally only get festive fog with Hera so I can guarantee its connection, though I'm sure that's because I dislike the aiming for it as well.
chrome geyser
does anyone else use a trackpad mouse for km combo? I just realized that I am using a trackpad and it's surprising how fluid it feels compared to my home setup; that has a gaming mouse
prime knoll
That seems like a sad fate for the grenade
lol, just have a 1-2 second timer where you poop grenades
@chrome geyser What do you like about trackpad?
cold oriole
Found another really fun wombo combo today... i think i was hitting approximately 3.5k crits? I wish id had chilling strike to apply double conditions so i could boost it even further https://imgur.com/fMvUlJJ
naive tusk
I just finished making some boon progression sheets in case anyone wants them too
Next I will make a duo chart
cold oriole
also, first run where ive gotten 2 duo boons at once
soft harbor
too bad Marked doesn't proc on the same enemy if there's only 1 haha
i mean Artemis is good enough as it is, but
yknow. it'd be fun
prime knoll
it does apply within AoEs though- or at least for some attacks- so it can crit A, mark B, crit B all in one attack
cold oriole
i did have some ability with marked and weak
but chill would have made it more thorough
naive tusk
If you want the rest, I can DM them to you (because it may seem like a picture spam here haha)
soft harbor
those would be really useful, Heartful, good work
cold oriole
id suggest making an imgur album and linking that
soft harbor
coulda used that a week ago before i got all the fates haha
cold oriole
@soft harbor do you watch The Kings Avatar 0.o
marble ridge
I just realised Ares has 3 swords
soft harbor
i do not, is there a character named SwordSaint? haha
cold oriole
yeah lol
soft harbor
nice
cold oriole
anyhow @naive tusk id say
you just select image to upload
but instead of selecting one
you shift click to select all the images you want
and bam, youve got an album 😄
naive tusk
Ok, let me try...
prime knoll
an alBAM
soft harbor
yeah, not a bad idea to create an imgur account and put those all in one link
definitely bookmark worthy stuff for someone learning the game and how the boons build
prime knoll
and even would be a rad thing to see in-game on the codex pages for each god
cold oriole
that seems like the quality of work that supergiant would feature it somewhere
prime knoll
get to see all the boons you've found and how they relate
hollow sorrel
yes
prime knoll
bingo. perfect
cold oriole
yup!
naive tusk
OK then. Hope it serves others besides myself
It saves me the trouble of going to the wiki plus it's easier on the eyes haha
earnest ravine
It absolutely is, thank you for making it!
silver rover
https://imgur.com/a/2pPiM0t
@naive tusk
you made this?
we need this in game for all the gods !
naive tusk
Yeah haha
Because I still consult the wiki for the boons I need XD
But now I don't need to anymore
By the way, I had to recolor Poseidon's boons to put them as Dionysus' because the wiki lacks 5 boon pics for him
And also Demeter's Aid
prime knoll
I'd upvote I upvoted this album and idea in feedback
naive tusk
Yes! Just click on the link and you can see each boon tree
I will now make a Duo boon chart because I need that too 
I will post it once I'm done with it 😄
silver rover
maybe you can add them directly into that album, so same link?
soft harbor
yeah imgur lets you do that
hollow sorrel
That's so much fancier than the badly photoshopped flowcharts I'd make https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527330532259004419/680185106505269344/unknown.png
naive tusk
I will try to do that 👍🏼
waxen furnace
love the album!
turbid needle
@naive tusk's getting an email from Caitlin in two weeks "So what's your Paypal?"
valid crest
hey question to ppl here
i’ve heard that room spawns are split into two pools
the meta currency and upgrade pools
and fated authorities only reroll within those pools
marble ridge
Kinda wish eitherv of the broken hearts gets a new icon
marble ridge
Not sure
unkempt pagoda
there's a room guide in the pins
valid crest
is that confirmed tho?
hollow sorrel
it's confirmed, that we're 99.99% sure it's true
valid crest
lololol
ok
i mean i believe it
but some youtuber i told doesn’t believe me
so i was trying to get a source
hollow sorrel
It was derived from evidence. There's always the slightest chance it's wrong
hollow sorrel
In the same logic, no one can actually prove gravity exists with 100% certainty, because it's derived from evidence
Just because it's always worked in every observation, doesn't mean that tomorrow maybe gravity will cease existing
valid crest
i mean people have looked into game code for things like this before
so that would be 100% evidence
hollow sorrel
I mean like, you can reroll 10,000 rooms, and it always holds true
hollow sorrel
possibly someone looked at code, but to be honest, there's enough statistical evidence to say it's true by observation
turbid needle
Don't waste your time arguing with someone who is resolved to not believe you.
turbid needle
Especially when it's a case of bad faith and they could be wasting your time on purpose.
valid crest
just gotta let it go
hollow sorrel
Some people are bad at math too
hollow sorrel
It's not really taught very much, even in college, to a lot of the majors
hollow sorrel
well, the statistics, in so far as confidence intervals and stuff
valid crest
tru
i think most people just are unaware of how the fundamental logic behind math works
they think it’s like this weird thing that is arbitrary when it’s actually one of the few things that is p consistent in its rules/explanation
hard haven
Holy cow the hangover boons are broken AF I'm wrecking with the legendary hangover effect
silver rover
i’ve heard that room spawns are split into two pools
@valid crest take a good look at the borders of the chamber rewards. blue = meta currency
https://i.imgur.com/6t4Ms8J.jpg
see the blue border there
gold = boons, charon obals, poms of power, centuar hearts.
unkempt pagoda
mild crag
Laurel yep
hollow sorrel
it's the same thing that's on Zag's head
silver rover
Laurel yep
@mild crag yes! laurel! thanks!
blue laurel = currency
gold laurel = boons
silver rover
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520688402958516254/660997121406926849/hades_room_rewards_guide.png
@unkempt pagoda
eh hermes boons only 2 per run ???
hammers also 2 per run rite
waxen furnace
hammers 2 per run, hermes 2 by default (and I think the last shop one is a third?)
unkempt pagoda
you can get only 2 hermes boons without buying the 3rd in styx
silver rover
aaah so thats why is kinda hard to get that legendary boon from hermes
since we only have like 2 chances to get it
hard haven
Hey guys I got 3 diamond wats the first thing I should get with em?
unkempt pagoda
probably fated list
silver rover
Hey guys I got 3 diamond wats the first thing I should get with em?
@hard haven
free+ fated authority when you get keys ?
https://i.imgur.com/LU7Did9.jpg
wasn't even playing a cast build then suddenly i got so much casts to shoot in the end
also got the artemis boon which fires additional cast
hard haven
@silver rover I got 11 keys where the fated authority?
silver rover
@silver rover I got 11 keys where the fated authority?
@hard haven wait ah let me check the wiki
FatedKeys.png
Fated Keys
Underworld Renovation: Collecting Chthonic Keys also gives you +1 Fated Authority. 3 Diamond
talk to the house contractor
this one helps too with your run
VintageNectar.png
Vintage Nectar
Underworld Renovation: Collecting Nectar gives a random Boon +1 Level. 3 Diamond
waxen furnace
do y'all ever take a gold room over a boon room early on, if you don't think you want a boon from a particular god/still haven't filled out your main attack strategy?
silver rover
do y'all ever take a gold room over a boon room early on, if you don't think you want a boon from a particular god/still haven't filled out your main attack strategy?
@waxen furnace well i stopped going to gold rooms and just gods boon since i can always sell the boons i dun want later on.
duos are worth 400 charon obals
waxen furnace
sure but duos are much farther down the line typically
and many ok stuff doesn't sell for 100 gold, and can't be sold for a while usually
boons are nice, but I'm wondering if it's worth prioritizing making sure you have gold for shop boons to get your main attack setup up and running
hard haven
I never go for gold maybe I should start cuz you can get boons in shops if u have enough coin so it's a win win
Ive never sold a boon im afraid of losing power lol
bright mulch
Problem is shops aren't that much more reliable either, good chance you just get food heart darkness, God you don't want etc
Even with 80tax keeping like 270 on hand isn't hard either
soft harbor
the way i justify gold rooms is if the other room is worth 100 coin to me or more
considering shops may have more than 1 thing you want, it doesn't NECESSARILY even out that way- but it mostly makes sense to me
hard haven
I feel like the more coins you have on you the better the shops stock cuz when I carry 200+ coins I always have boons show up and extra lives but not when I'm carrying much less