That's why the real 200 IQ play is to only pick up Zeus Dash
#h1-builds-and-combat
bright mulch
hybrid galleon
Spear is such a crutch to me honestly lololol
turbid needle
Hang on, @bright mulch
bright mulch
See this is a 200 IQ build right here
waxen furnace
I only have zeus cast. can sell it for 150. if I sell, it'll stop appearing with higher frequency for the rest of the run, right?
hybrid galleon
Grandma doesnt like me much
turbid needle
It can come back. Sometimes on the next boon you pick up.
hybrid galleon
Because i ditch her for mom aphro for some raw love
waxen furnace
oh sorry - I was under the impression that if you have a boon from a god, you see more of them in the run. is that the case?
dense locust
Does anyone else play on controller and have a bugged poseidon call where he just shoots off in the direction I was facing and is completely uncontrollable?
Happens like 1/3 the time
@waxen furnace I think it's that the given seed favors certain gods, but I could be mistaken
hybrid galleon
Ok but i need new heat
waxen furnace
I'll still probably sell it as I don't use cast often with this build and 150 gold is a whole other boon
hybrid galleon
That makes every single boon a god trial
dense locust
Well it's certainly the case in my experience that I'll see 2-3 gods like 80% of the time
hybrid galleon
But gods will give you less quality boons if they get rejected
Basically playing sides
dense locust
I wonder what the numbers are on the change in probability
Or if its just a straight decrease for the next boon you find
from that god
hybrid galleon
Sometimes the rng only gives me 1 god for a big while
And nothing else
But last run i had some really diverse gods
Got like 5 of them
Like sometimes it just gives me.... a lot of ares
Like dude i dont need your cast shoo
waxen furnace
it really feels like you mostly get boons from gods you've seen before that run
might just be confirmation biasa though
hybrid galleon
Nnnnot really? I mean i actively avoid hermes
And yet he shows up all the time for me lol
waxen furnace
was just wondering if selling the singular boon you have from a god would remove it from that high-droprate-pool
hermes is special though
afaik
he always appears at specific points
hybrid galleon
Also ares
I dont need you when all your boons are about your spinny sword that tickles ppl
Give me the damage boost and we are done ares why are you so stubborn
turbid needle
Dodging Hermes is strange when he has some of the best boons in the game.
turbid needle
So worst case scenario you have a 2/3 chance for an excellent boon.
bright mulch
For me Hermes only becomes a priority after I know the build is almost done
turbid needle
I love Drift Dash, I think it's better than a lone third dash, but even still.
bright mulch
Or I know the build is trash and unsalvagable
hybrid galleon
Or that one i need is just..
White
Uuuuugh
And then epic for the speed after dash im like hermes are you kidding ne
bright mulch
Or you pick Hermes because the other door is coins and you only have one fated authority left lol
hybrid galleon
Ye lol
That
Everytime i have no choice to pick hermes im like sure amazon prime boy lets see whatchu bring
hybrid frost
For best results when using melee attacks against Hades, you need 1 of the 3:
1: Greatest Reflex
2: Drift Dash
3: Athena Dash
hybrid frost
Best boon in the game.
hybrid galleon
Its literally no u
waxen furnace
which is drift dash again?
hybrid frost
Speed after dash.
bright mulch
Dash and then go fast after dash
hybrid frost
2nd best boon in the game for surviving Hades would be "Sure Footing", Athena's trap damage reducer.
turbid needle
That was secret S+ on +800% trap damage.
hybrid frost
Oh wait, I forgot Unhealthy Fixation
waxen furnace
okay so chiron bow is absolutely melting bosses. I see the value
turbid needle
Now it's S- on 400%.
waxen furnace
struggling with rooms with a lot of small enemies, though. should have gone poseidon special if it appeared
sacred idol
On 100% trap damage, it's less mandatory but not as top tier...
I always forget to take sure footing and get merked by a buzzsaw though
hybrid frost
Chiron can sorta hit multipul enemies if you line them up between your target and Zag.
chrome geyser
As far as I understand; you will commonly get the 4 gods that you take boons from first.
If you got athena, ares, zeus or poseidon dash; you can clear the vases of doom. Works better with +dashes.
hybrid galleon
Which god has the most terrible boons
chrome geyser
All gods are good IMO
waxen furnace
ah. thanks @chrome geyser. Was wondering if selling a boon would make a difference there, I guess not
tidal thorn
Zeus.
hybrid galleon
For me is poseidon
tidal thorn
I don't like Zeus.
hybrid galleon
But again i feel like i dont make full use of poseidon
I only wished for better utility from him rather a skill boon
tidal thorn
Posi works really well with some weapons, I just don't like Zeus with anything.
He feels very underpowered.
hybrid frost
I don't think any god is bad as a whole.
I do think a lot of them have a few boons that are REALLY bad except in very specific circumsatances.
hybrid galleon
Is aphro even bad
chrome geyser
Dionysus has the highest damage cast and good dps.
Zeus has bomb AoE damage; and duos with everyone.
Aphrodite is a damage monster; also has great duos
Poseidon makes rooms breezy
Athena lets you defeat the final boss.
Demeter has great auxillary skills and the best duo boons; and the best legendary probably.
Artemis makes cast builds crazy good; also can increase dps tremendously without occupying slots.
Ares has good dps, and has the second best call.
hybrid galleon
Aphro is just pure amazing imo
chrome geyser
Weak is a bit useless outside of unhealthy fixation, and long lasting debuff for privilege.
hybrid frost
Revenge weak AOE is low impact imo.
hybrid frost
AND HIS NAME IS COLD FUSION!
chrome geyser
I prefer dodging to reducing damage.
hybrid galleon
And she takes no prisoners
chrome geyser
@turbid needle there is also support fire there. The go to rail build.
waxen furnace
the respawning mooks in elysium are real annoying with chiron bow
chrome geyser
mooks?
turbid needle
Unless you already have perfect play, reducing enemy damage is always useful.
hybrid galleon
Cha cha ron
turbid needle
Low level enemies, not-bosses.
hybrid frost
That's what your Cast is for.
hybrid frost
Ouch
chrome geyser
I feel weak is worse than the others
turbid needle
It got nerfed recently.
tidal thorn
lol I've never seen anyone else say mook outside my parents and me.
chrome geyser
Demeter cast i love it; but if i can't get artemis; then it's a no.
hybrid frost
It's not just weak your getting.
It's AMAZING DAMAGE!
dense locust
Yeah
chrome geyser
Unless i have issues with some stationary enemies.
waxen furnace
demeter cast has done me dirty before, but in this build it's not really what I want
hybrid galleon
Aphrodite cast is some of the best things game has offered the fik
How dare you hate on the LOVE SHOTGUN
chrome geyser
@hybrid frost that is why aphrodite has the best raw damage boosts; cause weak is not as impactful as the other debuffs.
dense locust
I won a 10ish hell mode heat off of the aphro shotgun
bright mulch
Weak is POG, big damage and you can now take DOUBLE the amount of hits
dense locust
and i had no plans of a cast build
tidal thorn
I actually like Aphro call now.
dense locust
cast also benefits the most from poms
chrome geyser
I love aphrodite boons though. That damage is godly.
hybrid frost
@chrome geyser Yeah but they come together
tidal thorn
Dat damage.
chrome geyser
I just did a chiron bow unhealthy fixation game. Was fun.
hybrid galleon
Dat damage is as thicc as her butt
hybrid frost
Aphro is great because of both benefits.
turbid needle
Gods with benefits. 
chrome geyser
Aphro and poseidon are like opposites. Aphro is amazing vs bosses and poseidon is great against rooms
hybrid galleon
Schpoon NO
tidal thorn
good album name
hybrid galleon
Lol
waxen furnace
aaaand dio just offered me festive fog instead of demeter cast. THIS IS GOOD
chrome geyser
GET IT
hybrid galleon
Demeter offers zawarudo
waxen furnace
I had demeter call
hybrid frost
And then get some Zeus to try and nab dat hot Scintilating Feast.
hybrid galleon
ice wive
waxen furnace
but a lot more dio stuff
chrome geyser
The dionysus+demeter+zeus triple is always so powerful.
hybrid galleon
demeter cast is slow
chrome geyser
Love it on hera bow.
hybrid galleon
i wish it were a lil faster on tracking
chrome geyser
Demeter cast becomes workable once you get it tracking with the artemis boon
sacred idol
@hybrid galleon Aphrodite, the god of big... boons.
hybrid frost
Ice Wine is great too.
waxen furnace
I have the artemis-aphro duo already
chrome geyser
Other than that; only get it for specific enemies; hydra and gorgon.
hybrid frost
Aphrodite the Try Hard.
chrome geyser
Or for wrath calling narcissus
I recently rage abandoned my game because i have been looking for dionysus special to try out chaos shield hangover. I happened upon 5 dio boons and NONE had the special and had to rage abandon.
dense locust
Hera aspect bow with trippy shot is funny
chrome geyser
Yeah one of the staples for sure.
hybrid galleon
dont insult my mom
waxen furnace
that sounds like fun
chrome geyser
I think either artemis cast or dio cast for hera.
waxen furnace
I've enjoyed hera bow + ares cast
dense locust
Ahh i gotta try that
waxen furnace
both
dense locust
Just unleash the blades on top of them
hybrid frost
I like Poseidon and Zeus alot for Hera.
If we could just keep them from flying out of bounds ALL THE TIME!
chrome geyser
I had everthing ares and artemis. +4 cast, the double cast, +1 damage/hit. It was crazy
hybrid frost
A high powered Zeus Hera shot is amazing, but it always ends up out of bounds.
chrome geyser
@hybrid frost you pray to ariadne that you will find instant recall.
hybrid galleon
@sacred idol you shall worship the god of big boons
hybrid frost
🇹 🇭 🇮 🇸
hybrid galleon
with the love shotgun
bright mulch
Flood Shot is so weird for Hera because they like, deploy carpet bomb style
I don't like it
hybrid frost
I load one at a time.
bright mulch
Works fine on bosses but mobs it ends up only one hits and then pushes them out of the way
sacred idol
I prefer 'em small but perky... although I wish Artemis were better without needing so much support from other gods
hybrid frost
But it's different for sure
bright mulch
Arty can't be an independpent woman otherwise she'd be op
hybrid frost
What's not better with a little crit chance?
waxen furnace
do y'all take the boon that removes chill stacks and deals burst damage?
hybrid frost
Depends
waxen furnace
I feel like most of the time I'd prefer having the stacks
hybrid frost
If I'm applying Chill fast and furious, I take it.
turbid needle
Artemis is totally independent.
bright mulch
Only in her dreams
sacred idol
@stiff stone imagine it with a red onion icon
stiff stone
turbid needle
@bright mulch You should use Hestia with Deadly Strike and Hunter Dash.
waxen furnace
oh whoops.
poseidon blade, artemis cast, just got two chaos +1 cast boons and I'm not even done with tartarus
this is going to be fun
maybe should have gone for poseidon cast or something similar for room blow up potential
turbid needle
True Shot is the speedrun build.
waxen furnace
oh is it now? normal enemy rooms are slower
but bosses I'm sure will melt with 5x true shot (hopefully more with the legendary)
waxen furnace
will do!
in the meantime I need to figure out what duo to target for this build
I already have a bunch of athena stuff. I guess I could target athena duo
what I really would like is more artemis. I've already used artemis keepsake unfortunately
chrome geyser
artemis cast is amazing with poseidon blade. I would grab just some statuses on dash/special and try to go all in on artemis. If you get fully loaded (extra 5% crit, dual casting, crits deal more damage, +4 casts, exit wounds) it melts bosses.
poseidon blade wants flurry cast and hera bow wants instant recall
turbid needle
Well every cast build wants Greater Recall.
waxen furnace
unfortunately I've seen no hermes/artemis since my first cast get on artemis. sad run 😦
saw hermes in store but couldn't get it
maybe elysium will have mercy
got flurry cast when I skipped a dead hammer. worth
this might be salvageable
waxen furnace
aaand that's a win. exit wounds in last store came in clutch
smoky oasis
Has anyone got the link to Meg's and Zag's leaked sex tape?
waxen furnace
I've gotten meg and sisy to the locked hearts, but am not getting the right dialogue to get my first summons. :<
smoky oasis
keep trying bruh, don't give up yet
dense locust
Doing 19 heat with guan yu and got deadly flourish, charged skewer, and clean kill on top of a couple special damage boosters thanks to chaos
doing 2k crit explosions
jaunty pewter
me: oh boy! it’s so great to be here in elysium with my stygian blade! can’t wait to arrive at styx and kill hades
the heros, about to ruin my entire run again:
seriously i just want to finish a blade run but i consistently cannot get past those two
sacred idol
sword really needs a systemic buff
it's mainly a speedrunner's weapon, because on low heat it brings the big nutty DPS to overkill everything in record time
dense locust
I did the cast build for the sword until about 13-14 heat
sacred idol
but on high heat, it's got zero risk mitigation, and heat is all about increasing the need for that
sacred idol
What it really needs is better evasion/survivability
Like a way to lengthen iframes, or gain them while making offensive moves
dense locust
That or glass cannon
sacred idol
Well, it is a glass cannon
sacred idol
Heat just happens to melt glass unless you're godlike at this game
Yeah, that's what I meant
dense locust
I just had my first moment of zen against hades with my guan yu
sacred idol
Have some mechanic that encourages pressing your advantage and never letting up, by rewarding you with some sustainability.
dense locust
Dodging urns, skull explosions and spin attacks left and right with just 2 dashes
sacred idol
Cursed Blade is a good start but the drawback is too high and it takes a hammer
and tbf, the base sword's DPS is pretty mediocre by itself
dense locust
Made me realize one really could beat this based on skill alone if they were some sort of god, or a computer
jaunty pewter
if it were just like. a tiny bit faster it’d be more reasonable
but overall i just really dislike the blade
sacred idol
yeah a bit faster would be something
jaunty pewter
i’m only doing a blade run bc i realized i hadn’t done the fate prophecy that requires you do a full run with each weapon
and i want that good good blood
dense locust
Yeah it was probably the weapon they conceived of first and its just the least interesting
a buff to the aspects and hammers maybe, or the base damage
sacred idol
base damage I'd say needs a touch
jaunty pewter
what’s the best attack boon for the blade?
dense locust
Also the hammers aren't too great
sacred idol
I'd say, move some DPS out of Nemesis and into the base sword strike.
dense locust
having to hit with your 3rd strike is unreliable and dangerous
sacred idol
In a way that keeps Nemesis where it is in terms of overall average DPS, but makes the Zagreus blade more viable.
dense locust
world splitter is slow
sacred idol
Hammers could use improvement yeah
Piercing Wave would be a gamechanger IF it did status or scaled with attack
jaunty pewter
sorry, which *god boon is the best for the blade’s base attack
dense locust
I had rapid attack, piercing wave, and 30% attack speed once and it actually made piercing wave viable
but it was still weak
Gave me a machine gun of piercing waves though
sacred idol
I mean, yeah, if it did lower base damage but scaled up, like 15?
15 base and scaled to status/damage
dense locust
yeah
sacred idol
that'd be a lot more viable but not as broken
dense locust
especially if it crit
actually idk
I feel like when I first chose piercing wave, I thought it did scale with boons
sacred idol
Same
dense locust
And I though, that makes sense. It strong
sacred idol
I thought it'd just be uh
dense locust
but not too strong
dense locust
Compared to some other hammers
sacred idol
it wasn't, it was a slowish ground wave
dense locust
Part of the fun is getting lucky to get everything to line up and get that OP build
So getting the hold to attack hammer, piercing wave. having some +attack chaos boons, and having artemis, you'd machine gun like 200 damage crits
sacred idol
I do think that it should be pretty crazy with some investment, not like, sit back and pelt Hades with zero risk good, but good
dense locust
which isnt op
sacred idol
yeah that'd be fine with a more reasonable base damage
dense locust
theyd probably be higher
sacred idol
it's 25, right?
dense locust
yeah
okay im all in favor of them just adding it to scale with attack damage and gain status effects
sacred idol
25 with like... flurry slash, piercing wave, hermes attack speed, and demeter chill blast would be nasty
but at 15ish it'd be fine
stronger than base rail, a bit slower
dense locust
Yeah
sacred idol
Just basing it on - it's slightly slower than the rail, but not by THAT much.
dense locust
I mean compare it to my latest run
sacred idol
So, it should be relative to the rail as a short range ranged weapon.
dense locust
where I had guan yu with charged skewer
a couple plus damage to chaos
artemis for special
sacred idol
otherwise, it'd start encroaching on rail primary territory
dense locust
and clean kill
sacred idol
but given the subtle speed difference 15-20
dense locust
The potential for extra strong builds just isnt there for the attack
sacred idol
I do think the game isn't balanced around Chaos stacking.
Like, not as a baseline
What you get is so thoroughly randomized it apparently changes on the same seed with identical paths otherwise
dense locust
And I didnt even have heart rend
sacred idol
that and chaos is a little bit make or break with those damage boons
dense locust
Chaos literally is chaotic as sometimes it works in your favor, and sometimes you get screwed
smoky oasis
unless you select tight deadline on the pact
which is a big no no
I tried playing with common boons yesterday and I could even clear 10 heats
just take a damn long time
dense locust
I happen to get +175% to special from chaos last run
smoky oasis
that much?
dense locust
And with artemis and hunters mnark at 50%
things died
I like that there is potential for that broken build
sacred idol
@silver rover yo, no upvoting your own post :v
smoky oasis
Artemis special is like the best
dense locust
I still lost 2 of my 4 death defiances to hades
sacred idol
Chaos should T-pose to assert dominance over Zagreus
if you die from a chaos curse
I had a double Attack stack on Hestia rail once
it was level 3 and still hit like an anti-materiel rifle
dense locust
Like permanently nerf zag if you die with a chaos boon until you undo it?
smoky oasis
nooo
dense locust
Oh charged skewer as well so I had something like +500% special damage along with clean kill
Is clean kill multiplicative?
Or is it just heart rend
smoky oasis
btw how do people clear with rail fast?
I have seen 13 mins
how is that possible
even my best run with shield is like 20 mins
dense locust
Well maybe its on no heat?
dense locust
I dont. whats the hydra skip
smoky oasis
13 mins is crazy fast
you use Meg companion
at the start
then you still spamming skill on him
dense locust
I mean I could have done like 16 min if I skipped the hydra. that guy takes ne a while
dense locust
oh he takes his full health in damage before the shield kicks in
hybrid galleon
I wonder if they will implement 3d models of each gods later everytime you get their boons
they will show up as some sort of hologram images
instead of just looking at their potrait all the time
dense locust
Is t-posing posing as the letter t, or transposing
hybrid galleon
yes
smoky oasis
T pose -> Salute post -> Dab
fervent grail
going to bet you will the fighting the Olympians at some point when the game is complete
hybrid galleon
and basically its being so menancing to see someone just extend their arms not even looks like walking and then slowly closing hte distance between you
fervent grail
coz daddy hades is always right
smoky oasis
what if Hades comes out of the blood pool
after his defeat too?
together with dusa
hybrid galleon
Hades is the player if you beat heat 50
sacred idol
Jesus invented T-posing to assert dominance
Wait, damn, T-posing hasn't been invented yet, it's BCE.
hybrid galleon
and going to get back his throne
sacred idol
We've got like 300 years to go or something, thanks lore nerds
hybrid galleon
new heat mode, you get all ares boon and the blade rift only deals 1 damage per tick
its called Shut Up Ares mode
smoky oasis
hence, you don't know what the poser is trying to do anyways
each pose should serve a purpose
sacred idol
Chaos dabbing would be pretty funny too
smoky oasis
like shrug, etc.
hybrid galleon
also the blade rift moves extremely fast
smoky oasis
damn I misread that as spanking
sacred idol
sadly this is slightly offtopic
hybrid galleon
chaos spanking
sacred idol
@hybrid galleon that's just "nerf ares" tbh
dense locust
Yes yes back to hades
smoky oasis
sacred idol
yeeten
dense locust
I really do think they might add Hades as playable
sacred idol
I just hate how "self damage on using this attack" nerfs some aspects more than others though
smoky oasis
maybe not Hades, but Than for sure
sacred idol
Like Chaos shield ironically gets rekt the most by Chaos
hybrid galleon
@sacred idol self damage on attack makes me wanna cry inside
smoky oasis
I think Than would have a pretty good story line
dense locust
ooo and dusa, mega and sisy?
or maybe boulder...
sacred idol
I mean, some aspects don't care.
Like Hestia with selfdamage special is just
Oh, I only have a railgun that has 150 damage, whatever shall I do?
Zagreus aspect can ignore one
smoky oasis
I got the feeling that Zag and Than are step bros
sacred idol
Zeus can ignore one, etc etc
but aspects that rely on switching your attacks can't
chaos, chiron
smoky oasis
Zag's mom is locked behind that locked door
jaunty pewter
persephone is just vibin
sacred idol
soft harbor
Zag's mom is the orange shade 💔
jaunty pewter
she’s got headphones on
hybrid galleon
@dense locust play rock of ages, you literally play as Bouldy crashing down others
sacred idol
oh no she has airbuds in she can't hear you
jaunty pewter
no there are already cats the little chariots in elysium
dense locust
Haha never heard of the game
jaunty pewter
persephone look out hades is gonna lock you in there oh no persephone
dense locust
What are the thoughts on the contractor upgrade Petals, Ever-Falling?
hybrid galleon
im calling the persephone
dense locust
Only contractor boon to add 150% drama
hybrid galleon
ring ring
sacred idol
despite needing so many gems
hybrid galleon
Persephone's boon
smoky oasis
Btw are there any plans to increase the replayability?
I love this game but I have finished it 30+ times over
hybrid galleon
Heat mode is the replayability
sacred idol
I dunno, but I want arena mode
hybrid galleon
bruh
dense locust
What do you think the base drama number is?
sacred idol
uh, about 9001%
hybrid galleon
One theory is that pom of power is persephone's boon
dense locust
Thats not a number!
smoky oasis
dude everyrun is the same, it gets kinda boring
I hope they would switch things up
I like the 3 sisters approach
hybrid galleon
new weapon, sniper rifle
sacred idol
I mean, this is early access still
smoky oasis
but there needs to be more non linear stories
sacred idol
@hybrid galleon that's just hestia bruh
hybrid galleon
you can shoot from chamber 0 to hades
sacred idol
I will say, maybe we need more types of variant rooms
dense locust
Idk, ive gone through the game a lot and still find new builds to beat the game
sacred idol
other than Erebus and Chaos
dense locust
But I think they will keep adding more and more content that will add to replayability
hybrid galleon
also there should be more than 1 npc in the guests room to make it interesting
sacred idol
but this game is functionally like Risk of Rain or Isaac...
it's the same core gameplay loop
hybrid galleon
but again unlike most dungeon crawler, you dont go back to rooms
so you can only go with the flow
sacred idol
that's how roguelites do
or should I say, that's how procedurally generated games do
hybrid galleon
i think now its just very predictable
for example always go for boons
if guest room exist go for guest room
sacred idol
yeah, there needs to be a rebalance of relative room utility.
hybrid galleon
if more than 350 coins go to shop
sacred idol
that's what I'd like to see
dense locust
I don't disagree, I'd love like 5 possible exclamation mark rooms per biome
sacred idol
Rooms are not made equal, or remotely comparable, is the biggest issue
there are just plain trash rooms and there are always-takers
hybrid galleon
which guest room do you guys' prefer
sacred idol
I'm bad so I like patroclus
dense locust
And little hidden easter eggs, and different layouts for rooms
hybrid galleon
lol
smoky oasis
Eurodice
sacred idol
but eury is the most consistently stronk
smoky oasis
best room
smoky oasis
KEKW
sacred idol
What I wish you could do with Eurydice is to have the special food stack up if you have a smaller number of boons.
dense locust
Definitely, but my man in the 3rd biome as saved a couple of my runs
hybrid galleon
I wonder if they can make fishing uh
sacred idol
Like, if you have one (1) upgradeable boon, it goes up two ranks, or three boons throws the 4th pom at a random one.
fun?
hybrid galleon
more clearer?
sacred idol
:<
hybrid galleon
because I really hate the fishing rn but the gems tho
sacred idol
I don't like fishing mechanics
dense locust
getting 3 lives back is nice
jaunty pewter
alright everyone i’m heading into the hero room. let’s hope this time the god damn heroes dont eat me alive
smoky oasis
fishing is just a mini game to test your reaction time
hybrid galleon
if you can give fish to eury i wish she gives you a lesser food
smoky oasis
I like it
dense locust
I usually get him when I dont need him
jaunty pewter
i think i have a pretty good build going
hybrid galleon
@jaunty pewter funtip, separate the bull from the coward
dense locust
Fishing aint bad, the only time i miss it is if im on edge and feeling twitchy
smoky oasis
I almost never miss a fish
hybrid galleon
also hide behind one of the pillars so that that lil snitch wont keep throwing you his stupid spear
smoky oasis
I frequently miss the spot though, so hard see
hybrid galleon
basically isolate them both and then nuke that bull alive
hybrid galleon
its still kinda hard
honestly i gave up fishing unless they fix it
im not good at timing
smoky oasis
you only press the button once the bait submerge
dense locust
it makes a different noise too
smoky oasis
the fish will fake biting often
dense locust
you might benefit by just closing your eyes and waiting for the right sound
sacred idol
Yeah, isolate them and beat the crap out of Asterius
smoky oasis
I don't use sound cue though, just visual cues
sacred idol
Theseus is kinda awful if you get him to god nuke stage and Asterius is mostly healthy
hybrid galleon
Me when the witches trying to fire a lot of grape juice balls at me hope that i will die in bullet hell
laughs in Athena
i just imagine athena with that tom cruise laugh collage meme everytime you deflect everyone's damage
smoky oasis
best is when you deflect the arrow traps with dash and they insta kill the archers
feelsgoodman
jaunty pewter
DID IT! DID IT!!! FIRST CLEAR OF THE HEROES WITH THE BLADE! GOD!!
hybrid galleon
WOHHH
smoky oasis
tss
you made it sound like you beat him with no DD and 10 hp left
when you didnt break a sweat
jaunty pewter
fjjdkd nah i just have had trouble with the blade with them the last couple runs
sacred idol
Grape juice lmao
smoky oasis
Zag aspect is pretty good
sacred idol
ah yes, the Sharpest Lava Kitchen Knife in the World
smoky oasis
I like movement speed so much
sacred idol
@hybrid galleon Aspect of Kiwami Japan
hybrid galleon
@sacred idol Lmfao i hate you
jaunty pewter
dusa aspect stygian blade
smoky oasis
I like it better than Posseidon aspect
silver rover
@silver rover yo, no upvoting your own post :v
@sacred idol i upvote my feedbacks all the time. ya should too. 😋 anyway i upvoted yours. cheers!
soft harbor
Poseidon aspect is lowkey broken if you build specifically for it, and lowkey useless if you don't haha
silver rover
Cursed Blade is a good start but the drawback is too high and it takes a hammer
@sacred idol ya its hard. https://i.imgur.com/ELlvUiv.jpg somehow i managed a 2nd win for my sword. this is one of my earlier runs.
136 / 30 x 100 = 453
i guess i would have 453 health if i did not take the cursed blade hammer for that run.
sacred idol
whew
soft harbor
sword is really demanding
but your damage output can get insane with lots of builds
so you can try to build in a way that you murder everything before they bleed you to death
silver rover
regarding Eurydice, i always took ambrosia delight,
then ... i realize i should try out the one which upgrades 4 boons ...
cos, epic > heroic, is just kinda like upgrading 1 level with a pom of power, yes? no?
sacred idol
@soft harbor That works wonderfully when you're not running a massive stack of +damaging heats
dim rapids
personally i feel that nemesis sword doesn't have much build options lol
soft harbor
well once you are, you just really need to get hit a lot lot less
dim rapids
what are you going to build other than merciful end and heart rend
soft harbor
but having insane damage is a nice perk
sacred idol
Have you gotten to 32 with it?
soft harbor
naw, i'm around 10 on the sword
i've just started to build poseidon + artemis casts because its just easier
or zagreus+lambent plume at lower heats because its just stupid and fun
dim rapids
nemesis merciful end is probably the easiest build
in terms of safety and ease of use
poseidon true shot is ok but i feel it's too reliant on exit wounds + fully loaded
i've done quite a few runs where i don't get either and my run takes pretty long
at least merciful end even if you don't get the duo, iti's still decent dps with safety
soft harbor
what do you put Deflect and Doom on? I haven't tried that build
dim rapids
deflect on dash
doom on attack
dash attack spam into everything
one of my recent runs
last bounty
0 poms as well and still shredded everything
soft harbor
oh yeah i didnt even consider deflect dash for whatever reason
dim rapids
didn't get merciful end + triple dash till styx
but even before that i still shredded everything
soft harbor
deflect dash is just really reliable on sword for any build i think
dim rapids
athena dash is S tier
soft harbor
really helps the whole -not getting gutted by everything- issue that sword has
soft harbor
to hell with that heat gauge lol
mellow quest
it's a safe way to deflect projectiles and you are dashing regardless of your build so
dense locust
Does anyone know the mechanics behind deflect?
mellow quest
honestly the damage could be removed and it would still be really good
dense locust
Like when is Deadly Reversal activated
Is it if you receive damage while the shield is up?
Or rather mitigate damage while its up
mellow quest
it's as it says, any time you deflect an attack
you get the 20% chance to crit on anything
dense locust
trying to decide between it and blinding flash, which will give me 2 status curses reliably
mellow quest
and you can constantly deflect in normal fights
dense locust
ive got world splitter
so maybe all the more reason to get it
reflect is on my attack though
so dash attack to deflect into big crits maybe
Anyone got some thoughts on after party?
I almost never get it
sacred idol
I like it, because bad at game.
turbid needle
which weapon is generally considered the best?
sacred idol
shield is meta
Guan Yu has many fans
sticker shock sorta weapon, it's more balanced than it looks
rail has a lot of fans as well, eris/hestia are super stronk
sword is hard mode, but good for speedrunning
bow has big monkey damage with hera, but is clunky
opaque merlin
Unrelatedly, has anyone else found the Broken Spearpoint to be far and away the best pick in Styx?
sacred idol
yes
jaunty pewter
i had a great build going, a death defiance and lucky tooth still intact halfway through the hades fight, seemingly about to get my first blade victory and then
the game crashed
the fates really are against me ever beating this game with the sword
dim rapids
personally i use acorn in styx
dense locust
Hell yeah 20 heat sword finally
dense locust
@opaque merlin I almost always use it for the 3rd biome and styx unless my health is low enough that the extra life is better
dim rapids
lol thanks
dense locust
I should say I always use is it in the 3rd biome and then it varies on styx
smoky oasis
on hindsight I should have restarted the run to keep the streak
when I knew it wasn't going any where
dense locust
Eh streaks are overrated 😛
smoky oasis
not really, it's important for OCD people like myself
opaque merlin
I really like the Spearpoint for protection against those obnoxious little rats who have no attack animation, and especially against the satyrs
dense locust
Also if you get poisoned
opaque merlin
exactly
dense locust
you get immediate invul and can go unpoison yourself
opaque merlin
That's the primary value, I think
dense locust
It's also great if you get caught out during hades during laser beams
opaque merlin
right
dense locust
So you dont just melt
But on my last run I took the extra death defiance because I only had 190 max hp
and lots of gold to heal myself up at lucky well shops
opaque merlin
I almost never take extra hp as I go unless I have to, but I also tend to play on low heat
dense locust
And I probably would have lost without it, or it would have been very close
I swear extra hp was a permanent upgrade before the winter update
but I was probably just not paying attention and new to the game
sacred idol
win steaks
sacred idol
apparently resetting kills your streak though
dense locust
Id prefer the hp boost being less but permanent
I like how to take 150 gold, you get it permanently, but dont really get any boost that biome
and 150 gold is pretty insignificant ultimately
smoky oasis
@sacred idol wait really?
dense locust
Yeah
like you take the collar and get a permanent hp boost
The gold keepsake is only 1.5 gold rooms
so maybe make it 1.4 heart rooms or something
smoky oasis
it's an early game keep sake
dense locust
but be permanent
sacred idol
I actually like that idea.
smoky oasis
I think they should make it scales with the heat
dense locust
yeah true
dense locust
but Id like it for everything to remain relevant
smoky oasis
permanent is bad though
sacred idol
heck, it's only two hearts
smoky oasis
its a nobrainer choice
dense locust
I disagree
sacred idol
the coin purse is permanent, but many people don't use it.
dense locust
I use it all the time XD
smoky oasis
I do
dense locust
almost always my 2nd biome choice
dense locust
Sometimes ill do gold first biome, but trying to force a strong boon/weapon synergy or collect some strong chaos boons
smoky oasis
it's a no brainer choice honestly since there's no downside to it
dense locust
and I used to use the feather to try and build up decent evasion
Its the least rng choice
smoky oasis
the argument can be made for snowballing keep sakes like butterfly though
since you build it up early but swapping out = losing everything
kinda ouch
dense locust
Yeah the collar is cool in the very beginning but it's trash after you get other keepsakes. If they made it a perma hp boost, it'd be a consideration at high heats
smoky oasis
I think it should scales with heat
dense locust
That could work too
smoky oasis
just hp x heat_level x const
dense locust
The easiest comparison is the maxed out collar vs maxed out lucky tooth
sure the collar is actually affective the entire time
but the tooth is far superior towards the end
but perhaps thats what they're going for
smoky oasis
it depends on how many DD you have left though
tooth gives you raw 150 hp
collar gives you 50 + (HP+50)/2xDD
smoky oasis
my bad I forgot the numbers
dense locust
oh
smoky oasis
its 50 right?
dense locust
yes
i think if they made it permanent 40 hp, it'd make it much more relevant, but then again that might be too strong considering there would be no draw back
It
smoky oasis
yep
dense locust
It would be a no brainer for most runs
dense locust
The damage reduction from the front but increase from the back has been something Ive been considering
smoky oasis
so you choose the best for each stage
smoky oasis
sadly at late game there's no stages that the collar can be useful currently
smoky oasis
so I think the best solution is just make it scales with heat level
dense locust
So maybe heat scaling is the soluton
yes
haha
Or maybe better yet, they could add increased levels for the keepsakes as you gain heat
smoky oasis
you should put on suggestion
I think many would agree
need something todo at late game
maybe use nectars to upgrade
- more rooms
gotta burn those extra nectars
smoky oasis
it's in feeback
dense locust
Oh is suggestions just closed for now?
smoky oasis
yea
just give them 2 suggestions:
collar stats scales with heat level
make keepsakes upgradeable further using nectars
dense locust
Okay I posted but probably wasn't specific enough
smoky oasis
Most of the thumb ups are those suggesting making the game easier
Do people honestly find this game really hard? I can't seem to understand
rancid shore
It's too hard at higher heat levels
If you think the game is too easy at low heat, crank it up until it's satisfying for you. Any more unnecessary nerfs to make it harder will make really high heat more impossible
left timber
hollow sorrel
Some people want this game to be like binding of Isaac, where some builds are so ridiculously overpowered, that you just melt enemies before they could reach you
lament coral
the problem with high heat is that not everything is viable
god keepsakes are meant to ease the RNG bull by ensuring you get the god you want, but they do not guarantee that you'll get the boons you actually need
i.e. getting cast when using a Poseidon sword, getting special when using Chiron bow, etc.
in addition, Infernal Troves do not scale with heat
having to fight a whole bunch of exalted with blue shields, extra damage and HP often results in wasting a lot of time
meaning your already meager reward will be nigh nullified by the time you're done
hollow sorrel
The main problem is the damage % increases are way too high, which means the later biomes have to scale the enemy hp way too much, which means that if bad rng starved you of a boon you need, the game is painfully slow and/or impossible to meet the deadline
lament coral
well, timer is just another layer of RNG, really
hollow sorrel
If they really want the damage scaling to be this high, we need to start with generic boons with default damage percentages, so it’s literally not sometimes a 100% damage difference between having a boon and not having a book
lament coral
if you don't get non-combat rooms, you're forced to lose time
with Elysium/Styx being particularly egregious in that regard
but we've had these same conversations dozens if not hundreds of times already
hollow sorrel
I’m interested to see the next patch. I think it’s somewhat soon? I forget
lament coral
next month
final warren
Idk, I suck at this game, love it, never really feel like the enemies are the problem other than blantant bugs (bloodstones, why have you forsaken me?). I always end up realizing what I did wrong and try to correct it. Sometimes my skill level just isn't up to snuff.
lament coral
I haven't played Hades in a while, been working through Dark Souls
hollow sorrel
I probably should actually try to get the 32 sword run before the next patch. The other weapons weren’t that bad at 32, but I’m so not looking forward to the sword
lament coral
I tried doing the 32 Poseidon but died to Hades both times cuz I was ran out of time
because sack
sweet vector
One message removed from a suspended account.
untold widget
50 iirc
dim rapids
i think it's 49
earnest compass
50 if you have hell mode, 49 if normal
sweet vector
One message removed from a suspended account.
analog lodge
If you are doing 32 you should be able to handle the timelimit anyways
dim rapids
you can get screwed by bad rng at styx regarding time limit
dim rapids
cerberus bag spawns in 5th room? too bad, rip time
analog lodge
Ah, sack rng, the bane of speedrunners
smoky oasis
imo time should pause in non-combat state
so you could actually take ur time to explore stuff
should pause for treasure trove too
analog lodge
Still aside from the sack rng there are still a lot more annoying/difficult heat options than time limit. My point is that by heat 32 you should already be really good at the game. Meaning that time limit is essentially free heat so long as you do not get bad rng.
smoky oasis
your clear speed depends on your boons
analog lodge
You can control boons to a degree, your actual skill also has more impact than boons.
smoky oasis
your actual skills won't help you pass the shielded enemies where ur dps is gated
analog lodge
Force the first boon to be aphro special/attack and you are likely to breeze through
smoky oasis
that's what most people do actually but sometimes not enough
sacred idol
9 minutes time limit, sure...
analog lodge
I am playing on 7 minutes, I have not reached the higher heats yet(and I imagine enemy number/health will slow me down), but I can tell you that it is doable.
smoky oasis
tbh 7 mins is only doable on low heat
sacred idol
It's wildly different at 32.
sacred idol
That was kind of the point everyone was making.
At that point, unless you have the biggest wad of DPS conceivable, you're going to need to rely on extremely good RNG.
dim rapids
nothing better than starting a run with a boon in the wrong slot
sacred idol
Especially when it's your only boon for two biomes :^)
smoky oasis
easiest fix is making time limit scales with heat lvl
harder = need more time to clear
guy doing 49 heat with common boons against mega hard enemies shouldn't get the same time limit as 0 heat
hollow sorrel
The devs managed to get the first two biomes decently clearable with tight deadline on high heat. I’m sure they could fix the issues with the last two biomes if they wanted.
Like they could just remove a wave of enemies from each room on the third biome, and see how well that fixes the issue. Very little coding involved there
dim rapids
the main issue is elysum and styx RNG
also this is the highest i've seen chaos boon special damage go lol
turbid needle
Which keybind do you guys use for the weapon's special?
Q is kinda awkward to press
dusky drum
i have a mouse with 4 buttons so i just use that
perhaps right click migfht work
left for norma and right for special
turbid needle
right click is cast by default
dusky drum
do you use cast a lot??
dim rapids
try shift
also anyone knows which build is better for shield? merciful end or dio + aphro/demeter?
smoky oasis
@turbid needle Left Click - Attk, Right - Special, Q - Cast, Space - Dash, Z - call
dim rapids
yarn + chaos gate = good stuff
kind cloud
Question: Does the shield block hades' slash/thrust? i've tested it against his spin and it blocks it completely.
hollow sorrel
It sometimes doesn’t block the thrust if you are too close
kind cloud
yeah...i asked because that's how hades killed me. so either my shield didn't block or i released the bullrush too quickly.
hollow sorrel
The same thing happens with the spear guys in the third biome
turbid needle
The thrust relocates the center of Hades body, so you would have to "turn"
kind cloud
no, i was completely facing hades dead on
turbid needle
hmm
kind cloud
so it has to be either/or like i said above
turbid needle
He didnt move? forward?
kind cloud
he did move forward, i kept relaying between the top of the map and bottom of the map
he did 0 point of damage on me until the thrust
hollow sorrel
I’m guessing the hit box is so long, that if you’re too close, it’s technically in front and behind you at the same time
Or maybe it’s just buggy like his spin attack hit box sometimes is
kind cloud
btw, is zag invincible during the entirety of the bullrush? in other words, does he have invincibility frames for the entire trip of the bullrush?
like, i'm asking post-launch after full charge
kind cloud
while in flight?
hollow sorrel
I’m actually not sure if it’s really just a block, but it’s super difficult for something to hit your back when you’re traveling forward that quickly
turbid needle
You can test it on the ely bombs
kind cloud
the bombs do damage if they land behind while blocking
hollow sorrel
I’m guess... yeah, that’s the test that would show
kind cloud
but i'm asking about whether it's possible for zag to take any damage during the flight of the bullrush
hollow sorrel
I’m assuming it’s the same properties as a block
I’m not sure why it would change from a stationary block, to an invisible long dash, just because you’re moving
Invincible
kind cloud
the move/launch/flight happens so quickly that i can never truly tell if i'm taking damage during flight...
hollow sorrel
I don’t think many things can hit your back when you travel that quickly, and nullify projectiles that your shield hits
Unless you’re like super unlucky enough to get caught in a trap explosion, while your back is facing the center of the trap
turbid needle
Yeah that;'s basically how it is
Reason why Shield is op 😛
LOL
Artemis call when you know who had 45% hp killed him
I think winter harvest did that (demeter legendary execution?)
Question: "Aspect of Zagreus (bow)" Gives Critical Attack Chance
Is that literally only attack, or is special attack counted as well?
sacred folio
@turbid needle It's just attack, including dash-attack and / or power shot
turbid needle
That's a bummer
sacred folio
If it applies to more than just attack, it would be worded like Pressure Point "any damage you deal ..."
sacred folio
Yeah. spamming dash-power shot is tiring.
turbid needle
XD
hollow sorrel
The Zag bow can be a bit more consistent than Chiron though, because the dash attack chaos boon, regular attack chaos boon, and the Artemis dash attack boon all help it out. With the Chiron bow, you have to be lucky enough to get the special chaos boon if you want a generic damage increase
glad flume
turbid needle
Chiron is alot of fun, worth the investment imo
@hollow sorrel Well, I wondered cause zag bow has more arrows in his special, all you gotta do is play better.
But maybe it can be better but harder
turbid needle
Hey a new record! sub 20 😄 With adamant rail no less! 😄
hollow sorrel
@turbid needle I would argue that as the heat level rises, so does the minimum dps a weapon needs to do, in order to meet a deadline. And the Chiron eventually starts to have consistency issues meeting this minimum dps requirement, regardless of how better or harder you play. And even without a deadline, the dps issues might get so bad, that it takes so long to kill things, that the monsters start swarming you, because they aren't dying fast enough. Yes, Chiron is perfectly fine at low heat, but at max +extra enemies and max +enemy HP and max +enemy speed, it can really fall behind if you want its special attack to be the primary source of damage (as in you might discover that at high heat, it's better off hoping for attack hammer upgrades, and relying on attack as the primary damage source, in which case the zag bow would be a better choice)
Or another way to put it, is as I increased the heat level, I found out I was using the chiron's special attack (which is single target) less than I wanted to, and was instead spending a lot more time lining monsters up so I can hit multiple of them, at the same time, with chiron's powershots.
turbid needle
Yeah I c an see that becoming a thing. What's your max heat completed? I am working towards my 16th with shield
hollow sorrel
32 hell mode with spear, shield, bow, and rail
turbid needle
Btw. I always disliked the railgun, but for now it seems VERY solid, (aspect of hera)
Damn that's high
Hours played?
hollow sorrel
erm, i dunno hours played
I don't always close the application when I'm cooking, or doing other things
and there was a while, where I might be watching tv, or on the phone, or whatever, but repeatedly dying in the first room of the game, to reroll the broker deals, to try to turn all my keys into titan blood
hollow sorrel
I think I have 49 game clears, and a lot of them now are 20-30 minute games. Though the first few games were super rough when I was learning the game
And I sometimes spend a while rerolling game seeds for specific starting boons, on the high heat games
turbid needle
I havent really checkd out seeding yet, never did tbh. In any roguelite. I just play and hope for the best 😛
hollow sorrel
If someone calculated me at 80 hours of actually playing the game, I wouldn't be surprised, I guess
Some of the 32 heat games are unwinnable if the rng is bad enough. At least securing the first boon gives a massively higher chance of victory
turbid needle
How about trying to focus on hammer?
Or is it too insignificant? hammer and chaos boon
hollow sorrel
Like with the Hestia rail, securing on the dash attack boon as the starting boon, is a 100% damage modifier; and a giant percentage of my damage is dash attacks (unless I have rocket specials)
you can reroll seeds to guarantee the first boon, and a 1st or 2nd room chaos gate
Then you restart the game until it gives you the first boon and chaos boon you want, and those two boons can likely carry the rest of the game
It sounds like a lot of work, but it's better than hoping on rng, getting to the 3rd biome, then finding out that your game is unwinnable, because there's zero chance your build has enough dps to meet the deadline
turbid needle
Yeah that makes alot of sense
So you think skill is limited?
Or is time the biggest factor?
hollow sorrel
I think the game's RNG can very easily create unwinnable games at the 32 heat level
spiral widget
And here I am at 3 heat
hollow sorrel
If you're like 20 heat or lower, then pretty much everything is fine. On 20 heat or lower, I'd even be fine wearing the pierced butterfly the whole game, and just getting whatever the game gives me
spiral widget
I mean its not too bad my win rate is like 25%? atm
Ive been doing some runs with yuan(?) aspect spear
Thats a lot of fun
hollow sorrel
I like that spear. I'm not sure if the charged attack is supposed to go through walls, but I do it whenever possible, to safely regenerate hp
spiral widget
Yup, I feel it seems better to work on the special opposed to the spin
Getting the special up to 500+ damage even with bad boons isnt too hard
prime knoll
and the regen is unaffected by Lasting Consequences, so that's a free 4 heat
turbid needle
Cya Geek : )
dawn lantern
How fast is Quick Reload as Epic?
turbid needle
Hey! another record! 17:50:43
What's quick reload again?
Is it the 10s timer for cast?
dawn lantern
Yeah
I think it was 5 seconds, i don't exactly remember, so that's why i asked
But this streamer i'm watching, he got it as heroic, and it said 6.25 seconds
dawn lantern
Why would it become worse by going up a rarity? 
turbid needle
It wouldnt be 😛 Lets consult the wiki
dawn lantern
That's the thing, i checked the wiki and it made me confused, since it didn't have all the stats in
hollow sorrel
The wiki says 6.67 for rare, and you said heroic is 6.25, so epic is probably somewhere in between? It doesn't seem like there's much difference in any of the rarity levels?
manic ermine
quick reload is 66% for epic
dawn lantern
What do you mean?
turbid needle
66% reduction in drop time.
manic ermine
it reduces the dislodge time by 66%
dawn lantern
That's 1/3 of 15 seconds, so 5 seconds
But that still doesn't explain why it goes from 5 to 6.25 seconds on heroic
mild crag
If he was using Hera Bow the time would have been different
turbid needle
yes
plain pewter
Yes i'd like to know why heroic quick reload's description says its 6.25 when that would be a downgrade? is it an incorrect description or is it actually a downgrade?
hollow sorrel
The description is telling you what the calculated time would be, in seconds, to your current weapon in your current game. It's not explaining what math the boon is actually doing.
prime knoll
I only just realized that that boon isn't redundant with Hera. Since it says the time is X, it's not clear that it is actually just accelerating whatever the base time is by some percentage.
hollow sorrel
The boon itself is a percentage, but it's displayed in game as the calculated time
plain pewter
i haven't tried both yet, i've got hera at lvl 4 and i'd just assume it basically drops the casts almost instantly
hollow sorrel
hera at max level is 5 seconds ammo drop time
prime knoll
I had the boon with Hera- 2.85 sec or something
not maxed
would be nice to see something like:
Enemies drop cast ammo stuck in them X% faster.
[Old Time] -> [New Time] secs
naive tusk
Hewwo 
I’m about to give Chaos Shield a shot again but I’m clueless as to which boons and hammer upgrades to get for it
If anyone is kind enough to give me some suggestions 
turbid needle
I love Hades saying: "Everyone, look who it is! " Super sarcastic lol
@naive tusk faster charge up and explosion on retrieve
naive tusk
Oki 👍🏼