Escape #150 was a full revenge build
#h1-builds-and-combat
bright mulch
Also goes to show I only get things when I don't want them lol
Now that I'm not trying for duos thery're just falling out of the sky like candy
naive tusk
Happy 150th Attempt! ๐
bright mulch
Thanks fam
Yeah unfortunately no Athena drops during the run
Arty is always welcom though
oblique tusk
tfw doom is actively worse than flat damage
and the doom damage is also actively worse
hardy crow
I'm not a huge fan of doom tbh
It needs high synergy for me to really like it otherwise I try to actively avoid it
tidal thorn
Blade Rifts are cool, Doom is meh.
hardy crow
Something like the spear hammer that bounces can be nice with doom but other than that
mild crag
They're both very polarising
hardy crow
I'd rather just have a flat damage
mild crag
Very good or useless
hardy crow
Blade Rifts are also eh
tidal thorn
Fight me.
hardy crow
It feels like with hunting blades they're god tier
mild crag
Just cast blades is eh
hardy crow
And without they're just kinda eh
tidal thorn
I like Blade Rifts more than most people, I'm sure.
hardy crow
And I very much don't like builds that require a specific duo
mild crag
Ye same goes for doom with and without merciful end or highly synergistic weapon
hardy crow
It's why I like things with high value solo that just happen to have a good duo
Like festive fog (s tier cast by itself) and demeter boons (just good value, chill is helpful) making ice wine
I feel like I'm doing something before I get it and even if I don't it feels like my boon picks weren't wasted
torpid abyss
I've encountered a dilemma
Do i pick flurry slash on the sword, or super nova?
Assuming i have the Doom boon and doom stack, along cursed slash all on top of Poseidon aspect
rare salmon
@torpid abyss Probably Flurry Slash. But you can't be faulted for either.
Got another 4 Duos run. I wonder how common that is?
rare salmon
This time it was Poseidon / Zeus, Zeus / Demeter, Poseidon / Demeter, and Zeus / Artemis.
torpid abyss
I wonder how many duo boons have direct synergy with eachother
rare salmon
So that last one is pretty terrible. Just not much else good to grab, so I took it ๐
torpid abyss
Like Ares/Aphro and Ares/Athena can be detrimental to eachother
rare salmon
Yeah, I took both of those a few runs ago hoping they'd work. They didn't ๐
Just took the Demeter / Poseidon Duo to try it out. Almost took Poseidon's Legendary instead, since I already have the Zeus Duo.
torpid abyss
I also have mixed feelings on boons like Exclusive access
rare salmon
And the Pom one?
limpid vortex
Is there a specific role you need to be able to send a screenshot in chat? I want some advice on what to pick haha
torpid abyss
Also Zeus/Demeter is... Odd, to say the least
Jolted isn't that hard to apply
I suppose it's for larger groups, and then Jolted becomes permanent
rare salmon
@limpid vortex You can't upload images here. Upload it elsewhere and paste the link?
limpid vortex
rare salmon
Do you already have all three of Attack, Special, Cast from Dio?
limpid vortex
I dont have cast yet
rare salmon
So wait, what's your Cast?
limpid vortex
Crush shot
rare salmon
Oh, got it.
I think I'd take Bad Influence, considering how easy it's going to be to hit multiple enemies with your Special.
limpid vortex
Yeah I was leaning that way too
rare salmon
This turned out to be pretty good:
https://imgur.com/a/8vmEXkU
rare salmon
I was also using Poseidon Sword and got +71% damage to Cast, so that helped.
primal mica
https://imgur.com/a/1k2XYos
This was fun. I ended up only using my special and being a coward afterwards.
prime knoll
Young Keanu Reeves as surfer: "Come at me, bro!"
Hit 'em with a wave, watch 'em die.
For all y'all Hestia rail players, how do you personally use that aspect? Given its reload functionality, after how many shots do you reload?
last nacelle
Every
prime knoll
Exactly what I expected to hear.
last nacelle
If something has like 1 hp though, sure, use the peashooter.
Or if you need to set up debuffs or something.
prime knoll
I feel like it's basically a Daedalus Hammer as an aspect.
thorny edge
it wass a hammer originally
prime knoll
It doesn't interact well with many of the attack hammers. I don't see how it's better served as an entire aspect.
thorny edge
i think it was like, 80 base damage and one bullet chamber
prime knoll
^ I would use that. I just did an Arty attack run where I reloaded after each shot, and it was fun save for clicking reload all the time and occasionally locking myself into a couple extra (relatively useless) attack frames from time to time.
I'd use it as an aspect with a one-bullet chamber
manual reload to get the bonus is just busy work
smoky oasis
If Zag's lovers are to fight against one another in 1v1, who do u think will win?
primal mica
I'd place my bets on Than.
prime knoll
FFA or 1v1?
primal mica
But I'm a biased Thanboy.
primal mica
What does FFA mean?
primal mica
Ah, thank you.
smoky oasis
I think Meg has some kind of relationship with Than too
Saw her dialogue the other day
turbid needle
They're coworkers/friends.
smoky oasis
Well can't blame her she's a succubus anyways
turbid needle
She is not.
last nacelle
A fury
turbid needle
She is an Erinyes. It's a uniquely Greek thing.
last nacelle
Or furi, whatever it is.
primal mica
furry
smoky oasis
I wanna play her as character
bright mulch
Than has a move that does a delayed max damage hit, therefore he wins easy ๐
prime knoll
@smoky oasis Erinyes, also known as the Furies, were female chthonic deities of vengeance, sometimes referred to as "infernal goddesses"
stuck bough
which gods/goddess boons should I aim for this chaos shield run?
rare salmon
You do have to keep in mind that Dusa can stone people.
bright mulch
#151 with a super garbage build lol, good thing it's still low heat
Trying to complete the pact prophecy, turned on a bunch of stuff I haven't before like no choice, tight deadline etc.
The pressure from tight deadline made me play a lot worse lol, especially when I saw my build was really not gonna be anything special at all
This run really highlighted how bad Zeus Cast is lol, had to start speccing for regualr sword stuff because those crystals just fly anywhere they want and with deadline your really don't have the time to pick them up
Beating Final Boss was basically just full spam to clench it out, super close lol
mild crag
shame there's no impending doom there
and the attack and special weren't swapped
but gettin merciful end is always decent
stuck bough
the game decided to give weird boons lol
mild crag
well you made it work 
stuck bough
True
tidal thorn
Anyone got any good sword tips or builds to look out for? I'm really struggling with it, even at low heat, and am a little frustrated.
I've got both aspects too.
mellow quest
nemesis is the best sword but you can always use the Poseidon aspect and just cast build instead, use the sword for applying statuses basically
and stripping blue shields
tidal thorn
I don't feel great about the Posi aspect either. Part of it comes from chasing casts but I also have never seen Exit Wounds work it.
with it*
summer python
Has Anyone else notice that if you go behind the fish basket in the kitchen, there a glitch where you can go "behind" the wine cask?
cursive pivot
wait, does the Chaos death defiance not stack on the 3 you already got? i thought it did
rancid shore
it does
prime knoll
I got two of those in a row on a run last night (also the first time I actually got that chaos boon)
turbid needle
@tidal thorn Nemesis, Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Hunter Dash, Heart Rend, Double Edge (Daedelus). Never use your standing attack. Max out your dash chain around and through enemies (I just had a run with this exact build with five dashes, it was glorious), using your Dash Attack the entire time. Once you're out of Dashes, use Nova Smash. Now your dashes are replenished and you can spam your 1k-across-both-hits dash attacks again.
Warning: This playstyle is incredibly fast and powerful but actually kinda exhausting.
lean swift
I call this the Immortal Athena build; let's you pretty much troll the entire game: https://ibb.co/KDG064g
scarlet kindle
so close to heat 16 clear with guan yu until a hades jar instakilled me from full health
prime knoll
Those meddling jars
dense locust
Piercing wave us unaffected by attack modifiers right?
its a flat 25 damage no matter what
scarlet kindle
yes
dense locust
the only time I found it useful I had the other hammer that gave rapid attack and the boon that gave me 30% attack speed
and it doesn't apply any boon effects right?
And Hades is the only reason I don't like guan yu runs. I'll destroy everything until Hades, and then struggle hard to beat him
@lean swift The only thing its missing is 300 more hp ๐
Is dash attack a percentage of the base attack?
Like if I get world splitter, what does my dash-attack base damage increase by?
I'm guessing dash attack damage is still based off of the regular attack damage, as in its just an attack as you dash, but with world splitter, you keep your old attack damage when attacking (plus mods) and can only get the 90 base damage from a regular attack
Oh, the third dash attack is a world splitter
sacred folio
I thought the World Splitter only replaces your standing attack and it should leave the dash attack intact, no?
atomic panther
Correct
sacred folio
Thanks. "the third dash attack is a world splitter" sounds suspicious but I'm unable to launch the game to verify for now
tidal thorn
@turbid needle I'm used to dashing like a mad person. Serrated Edge is my favorite upgrade on the spear.
dim rapids
does acorn count for the asterius elite room?
sacred folio
Acorn availability is determined by encounter type == "Boss", not the foe's type. So no.
Buuut, in EncounterData, MiniBossMinotaur doesn't have an EncounterType property, nor does it inherit from any other base type of encounter data
... which makes it a little confusing. But I'd still bet that Acorn doesn't work when fighting Asterius as a mini boss
dim rapids
never really used acorn other than final boss so i'm not sure
hybrid galleon
also idk anyone noticed that some of the area in the house you could phase through the wall using dash
like phase into the lounge when near pillars
the door is also phasable
turbid needle
I've used the Acorn in Elysium a lot. It doesn't work on the Minotaur mini boss. The interesting part is that the Minotaur mini boss fight is affected by extreme measures but not by middle management pact conditions.
hybrid galleon
hm
dense locust
It's funny, I never actually thought about it because I always considered that room with the big shielded soul catcher to the mini boss (which I believe is what is affected by the heat condition) but never considered what the minotaur would be classified as
@atomic panther okay thats what I figured
@atomic panther But doesn't it replace the animation of your third dash attack from a sword forward dash to an overhead slash?
or i should saw sword forward stab
say
atomic panther
I don't know what you mean when you say third dash attack
dense locust
So if you dash attack three times with world splitter, he does normal dash attack twice, and then finishes with the over head slash
or is that just always what he does...
atomic panther
I'd have to hop into a run to see what you're talking about, because I've never seen that
atomic panther
Nice
atomic panther
I can't believe u
dense locust
lemme get back to you with the dash attack animation test
i got a screen shot
just give me a sec to try and figure out how to post files from paint
sacred folio
Save it to a file first?
atomic panther
You can't post images directly in here, you'll need to host it somewhere else and link it
dense locust
ugh okay so imgur?
sacred folio
imgur is fine.
dense locust
Oh first let me edit world splitter to say bong hitter
atomic panther
:(
dense locust
lol
okay fine i wont
But it would even have the same font...
Do i just post the url
atomic panther
Yup
dense locust
atomic panther
And what seems to be the bug?
atomic panther
Oh I thought you were posting a screenshot of the dash attack thing
Congrats on the 420 health, though
dense locust
Oh sorry I got distracted
You said you didn't believe me and I thought it was about having 420 hp
which is why I wanted to edit world splitter into bong hitter
sacred folio
I was expecting the dash-strike thing as well
atomic panther
Oh when I said I can't believe you I was being joke upset about you editing World Splitter
dense locust
lemme check the dash strike thing
yeah but you've got it in your name
i cant disrespect that
atomic panther
UwU
dense locust
Plus I realized i'd probably spend the next 20 minutes trying to get it perfect
atomic panther
I'm headed to bed, best of luck with the bug!
dense locust
There was no bug
atomic panther
The dash attack thing?
dense locust
I was wondering if the 3rd dash attack when you had world splitter changed
and it does
if you have world splitter, your 3rd dash changes into the world splitter animation
3rd dash-attack
oh wait
its always that
lol goodnight
sweet vector
One message removed from a suspended account.
sacred folio
Drink from the fountain or just hit the exit
It does wear off on its own given enough time. But you probably don't want it
sweet vector
One message removed from a suspended account.
sacred folio
Yes.
dim rapids
is world splitter really that good other than with nemesis aspect?
personally i feel that at high heat or forced overtime you can't stagger them enough and you'll often trade hits
dense locust
Yeah I agree, but it clears fast at lower heats
Had aspect of nemesis on their for some easy 1k crits on top of other things
Anyone know how the unique heat disability added in hell mode affects you?
Says it reduces the damage needed for impervious
is there a built in invincibility frame on normal?
or frames
mellow quest
basically if you take a bunch of damage you get a short lived impervious shield
it sort of prevents you from instantly dying in situations like say, getting cornered by a bunch of elite splitters
mild crag
The shield is visible like a boss impervious shield so you'll notice it
Doesn't have anything to do with stuff that's not that
dense locust
Okay thanks. Their numbers are kind of pointless because they don't tell you how much damage it takes in the first place
sacred folio
It's 25% of max health or 10, whichever number is larger
rugged estuary
Oh, interesting. So it's both.
On another note, today I learned you can just go to the next room during a trove encounter if you don't want to keep fighting.
sacred folio
Source: the logic is in function CheckInvulnerabilityFrameTrigger in Combat.lua, and the numbers 0.25 and 10 are from HeroData.lua
sacred folio
Please don't mock me sempai QuQ
dim rapids
does final boss say anything if you reach him without any upgrades in the mirror like meg does?
rugged estuary
@sacred folio You don't by chance know how damage reductions stack too? I was always curious about that.
sacred folio
@rugged estuary afaik, some damage calculation is done in the game engine's compiled code, not in the Content directory. So there's no easy way to get the whole picture of damage calculation.
Example: I couldn't find where is the base crit damage bonus (+200%) or Heart Rend's logic located.
rugged estuary
Aw, damn. Thanks though.
dim rapids
what does heart rend's logic mean?
sacred folio
If only we could call Skelly and order him to hit Zag for testing damage mechanics :/
rugged estuary
@dim rapids If it's a multiplicative or additive damage increase. It is the former as far as I know.
mild crag
it's multiplicative
dim rapids
probably multipliticative
else i wouldn't be able to deal 4.6k crits with a single charged skewer on guan yu lmao
rugged estuary
What I am curious about now - If you crit with an attack that applies the weak, will it already be bigger?
As in, do your attacks apply their debuffs, or their damage first?
dim rapids
that i'm unsure
mild crag
@rugged estuary I checked it out and damage reduction is multiplicative
if you had 2 "take 50% less damage" modifiers for example, you would take 25% damage
rugged estuary
@mild crag Sweet, thank you! I figured, but wanted to know for sure.
mild crag
jagged canopy
At high heat the double dash dmg is much better than big chop imo
Got my fastest run 13:XX with that one on nem aspect
dense locust
Charged skewer with exploding launcher is fun with good +special damage
jagged canopy
Yeah I love it
Not sure which special works best with it tho. Pose and Demeter come to mind
dense locust
Was trying to decide between exploding launcher and that other one that bounces around when I already had charged skewer
I just went straight damage with aphro
along with some chaos
jagged canopy
For default spear i prefer the exploding skewer
dense locust
do you mean the hammer that upgrades it to the exploding spear with 60 base damage, or the default exploding spear that comes with guan yu?
I think I prefer most of the hammers that increase base damage
exploding launcher being part of that
My special with charged skewer, my boons, and exploding launcher deals 300 at no charge or crit and fires off very fast
very easy 8 heat hell run
jagged canopy
I prefer using guan overall because I dont like having to rely on the hammer upgrade for explosive skewer
But if I get a hammer start and get the exploding skewer upgrade for default spear I rather go for that
dim rapids
than doesn't say anything unique if you beat him totally when he appears? slightly disappointed
ornate sundial
I don't know if it's a bug or intended functionality: basically with Hestia's aspect I can't produce a Dash-Strike if my shot is empowered โ it's always either a single 150-damage shot during dash OR two fast regular dash-strike shots (10+10). It's easiest to test with Skelly โ even the checklist doesn't trigger during empowered dash-strike while triggers perfectly with the same input w/o Empower
spare quarry
i got about the best rolls possible and crystal beam was still extremely underwhelming
+3 cast ammo, dual cast, artemis duo for improved tracking
and it still performed worse than some cast builds without any +ammo/duo boons
elfin ledge
since beam is independent I think it works better as support for your build applying chill rather than as main dmg source
spare quarry
its extremely clunky to even use as some turret without the duo boon though
since it casts forward of the direct you cast
dim rapids
crystal clarity is pretty strong
it's clunky because you don't have flurry cast i guess
with flurry cast you can just drop it all at once and focus on dodging, it'll eventually kill anything it focuses with what you have
dim rapids
ah see that's the problem, you're using crystal clarity on hera
if you use 6 trippy shots vs 6 crystal clarity, the immediate impact is different
i guess that's what you mean?
spare quarry
not exactly
firstly the beam damage scaling is horrendous
per level
even compared to rift blades
dim rapids
the last time i tried crystal clarity on poseidon, i basically just dumped it all with flurry cast + dual cast + fully loaded
and focused on dodging with sword
it melted them pretty fast
but i also had privileged status on them
dim rapids
what gods were offered in your run?
spare quarry
the poms paired with non-boon stuff
dem, artemis, ares, aphro
i didnt get any good hammer upgrades to dps that way
dim rapids
you could have potentially tried to get aphro/ares as a 2nd status curse for privileged
but that's about it i guess
personally i haven't used hera bow so i can't really say that much
spare quarry
but i did get privileged
dim rapids
maybe it's just not that good on hera?
hera is probably better off with trippy shot
and always trippy shot
spare quarry
i had weak on hit and dot on special to trigger privi
dim rapids
ice wine if it's even stronger
you had weak on hit?
but your attack is artemis isn't it
spare quarry
sorry the dot
dim rapids
dot is special
hmm
oh yeah you have chill on cast
honestly i'm not that sure, maybe someone who uses hera bow might be more helpful
i've used chiron bow from heat 1 lol
rancid shore
well it's a targeted dot and not burst like the other casts would be
spare quarry
all had much better dps
manic ermine
Eris and Achilles are the best aspects for demeter cast as you don't benefit from hera's dislodge bonus
spare quarry
even after i got the duo boon for better targetting
6 casts with dual cast on lvl 6 crystal beam
still took almost the whole cast to kill an armored mob
not penetrating shields means having to position the enemy as well
spare quarry
nah
phalanx, zeus
just about any other casts i've tried i got better results with less
if poms improved the base damage by more than just 1 then perhaps it would feel more on-par with the rest
dim rapids
isn't zeus' cast one of the worst casts
not sure if it's good on only hera or something
light bone
hey guys, i have about 40 hours of gameplay on Hades and i still didn't use any ambrosia, what can i do with it??
dim rapids
upgrade companions
used to further specific relationships
broker (but don't do this)
rancid shore
you probably shouldn't be asking the same question in all the discussion channels
spare quarry
gift nectars up till you can gift ambrosa
light bone
i did, but now there is a hearth with a clock on it (with Artemis)
and i don't have the option to give her more nectar
and i really like artemis
light bone
YEAH
dim rapids
but you can't really gift ambrosia to those
light bone
๐
dim rapids
if you don't mind spoilers, you can only gift it to ||meg/than/dusa/skelly/sisyphus|| after you finish their first part
sacred idol
@mint vortex Triple bomb is better without Hermes
and they come out more tightly grouped, which is better for taking advantage of a boss' vulnerable phase.
Tradeoffs. If you're using Hermes for continuous fire you don't need it and vice versa.
mint vortex
Not really, because the boss (particularly Hades) can suddenly dash and cause all three to miss, and you have to wait a while for another chance. With the basic version, you can constantly keep firing at him. Even if 1/3 actually land, you're still outputting a higher dps.
Having Hermes and Triple Bomb should be better than having either one individually, not worse.
sacred idol
If you don't have hermes special though, it's way better than relying on one
that said, I infinitely prefer clusterbomb
mint vortex
Agreed.
sacred idol
I think it's fine.
hidden shard
Having a good run right now, up to the final boss soon
Trying to get the profecy about using the different parts of the Pact of Punishment
Man, underworld customs almost wrecked me haha
opal bay
Is Aphrodite a good mix with the Guan Yu aspect?
jaunty pewter
is anything a good mix with the guan yu aspect? so little health...
plain pewter
heyo, i saw in the feedback channel that a comment suggesting a shorter reload time to replace the delta chamber daedalus upgrade (among another thing) to be downvoted quite heavily, i'd like to hear an informed opinion on why that would be a bad thing? assuming that is the reason the comment was downvoted
dionysus is excellent for the lifesteal attack
he also helps you a lot with scalling your healthpool up, similarly to aphrodite which can stack and demeter helps a lot with healing
opal bay
Guan Yu is generally considered a good aspect, it's downside really is brought up down once it's fully upgraded, since 50 hp and life steal can be really going well
there is no attack that damages you full on 50 damage (minus some specifics, but by then you should have a good amount of hp to fight that and lifesteal back during the fight, example Hades and his pot of green or his swipe attack)
plain pewter
that's one of the really common things i've heard, would you say upgrading it actually causes it to be worse or is it because other reasons that the aspect suffers greatly at max lvl?
analog lodge
Guan Yu upgrade increases its life steal speed and removes some of its downsides
opal bay
Aspect really suffers on low levels, considering the damage taken is not reduced, but so is not reduced your healing, what is reduced though is stuff that gives maximum HP upgrades and due to how hard it is with such low stat (20 hp At max on first level is kind of dull, you are more practically a target for one hit on big heat levels or final stages).
After finally getting it fully upgraded I can really feel it being a different weapon. What I am struggling is just coming up with the heat set up for the 32 level. I really just wanna do it with Guan Yu aspect since so far I am feeling much more comfortable with it than any other thing.
plain pewter
niiice
analog lodge
The best part - this could have been better if I got aphro -arte duo, it would be at 3k
analog lodge
Which aspect of rail?
plain pewter
uhh do i need some sort of permission to post images in this channel?
it was with eris aspect
lvl 4 i think
analog lodge
You do not post images, I posted a link, not an image
analog lodge
Aphro rocket +arte normal + heart rend +spread shot on eris would certainly end up OP, even crazier with heroic version of arte at high boon level
plain pewter
it just melted hades completely
i made sure to have as many lives left so i could just spam everything without a care
also i think i had dio call which is also dot heavy
so it added to the stable high rate of damage the health bar went down with
i think individual crits went up to like, 180 ish? after charm and eris procced properly
so guaranteed crits with chance for bonus hits and all, would reggomend
analog lodge
DAMN, that is 7 individual % multipliers applied to normals. Arte, Weapon aspect, heart rend, Boiling blood, sweet surrender, privilaged status AND spread shot. The only thing missing is a chaos strike boon and you would have the perfect storm.
plain pewter
i think you're right, not sure if i actually got a dps chaos boon, i think i did? maybe not on aa but yeah, then there's also the bouldy buff which would have contributed a lot on its own, and idk if pierced butterfly's buff is permanent even if you unequip it but i think there's 16% additional dps that isn't being shown here
dim rapids
you lose butterfly dmg% if you unequip it
analog lodge
Temporary, if you run butterfly you should have it for the whole run
plain pewter
huh... well that changes my tactics heavily
i suppose its the same thing with hermes' plume?
analog lodge
Yes
Regardless, this is one of the few times when Arte normal is actually decent - as due to the 3 times crit damage and Arte crit rate not making up for her low % increase, Arte is usually less dps than other gods, unless you take heart rend that is.
Arte Special is another matter, as it actually is just below Aphro even without heart rend.
plain pewter
lately i've been thinking of trying out the dash attack upgrade more, the one that doubles the damage and still counts as a normal attack
particularly it sounds really appealing on the sword's nemesis aspect combined with the daedalus upgrade that makes it hit twice
analog lodge
There are some real crazy things you can do with that - chaos has both a dash attack and normal attack boon. Given that sword dash upgrade adds crit you would be best picking Aphro for the attacks.
Spear also has an upgrade that makes you hit 3 times but lowers dash range.
plain pewter
i tried that spear combo which is where my interest came from
solid cairn
Did someone in feedback call Hestia rail irrelevant
analog lodge
Well if they did then they clearly do not know that it can reach 450 with Aphro attack alone.
solid cairn
And 1k crits
plain pewter
i see one that argues it does better dps on its own than the base attack, if you mean about how they'd preffer it being a daedalus upgrade? or did someone just flat out say it was bad?
analog lodge
The only problem is the default controls set its reload to the right stick, so I changed it to LB
opal bay
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583419755608801312/679011578640859146/20200217200910_1.jpg concentrated fire or delta chamber?
solid cairn
They said their reworked delta chamber would โmake Hestia relevant againโ
plain pewter
personally i'd go for pierce but idk
solid cairn
Same
plain pewter
depends on boon givers
solid cairn
I donโt like delta
opal bay
currently artemis
plain pewter
if you have something that benefits heavily from multiple targets being hit
pierce would be huge, specially with a 2nd hammer
opal bay
pierce it is then I suppose
plain pewter
pierce would let a single shot crit multiple targets right?
solid cairn
Idk if it rerolls for each target
plain pewter
then there's the marked effect and, hmm interesting early game there
solid cairn
Depends on how crits are calculated
stable onyx
i like first one
solid cairn
Tbh I never looked into that
stable onyx
pierce is good for clearing encounters tho
solid cairn
I think Iโve hit multiple enemies with the same attack and only some of them were critted
But Iโm not sure
analog lodge
Concidering you have only 12 ammo in that gun, go infinite ammo or pierce.
plain pewter
oh i was gonna mention that i found that, at least design wise hestia is convoluted to me, i'm not thinking it should be changed however. but i think it would be more intuitive if instead of giving you the mega projectile after each reload, its a cooldown that reactivates whenever you stop shooting for an amount of time equivalent to a reload
analog lodge
That would make it COMPLETLY irrelevent
plain pewter
like a similar measurement of time to the reload like, 52 to 60 ish frames a big damage number comes out theoretically
plain pewter
so like, shoot 1 and reload the next frame?
analog lodge
A cooldown would end up being 1 or 2 seconds, nerfing it into the ground
do not assume it would be the time of a regular reload
plain pewter
okay let me see if i understand, in that case for a cooldown to be "equivalent" like i said earlier it would have to be shorter than the reload itself to compensate?
analog lodge
The problem is that it would either become way too op or almost useless.
Depending on the cooldown time
Requiring manual reload means that actual skill is required
plain pewter
if it were to be made faster it would probably also need tweaks to the projectile itself, turning it more into a weird cast that occurs paralel to the normal attack right?
because the argument i'm referencing basically said that the rest of the 11 shots in the clip aren't nearly as important as the empowered shot
analog lodge
As it stands a guy got the WR for a rather high heat using that aspect rather recently, it is plenty relevent as it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOqodLHTqXU
plain pewter
again, this isn't really looking into the balance aspect of it as much as i said design wise i don't entirely agree with it on a level of intuition.
my problem is something i'd probably solve by like, making it a homing projectile that occurs occationally when you shoot, not being restricted by the reload mechanic but offering a playstyle all too similar to the other aspects, which in a way has its own pros and cons
rancid shore
because the argument i'm referencing basically said that the rest of the 11 shots in the clip aren't nearly as important as the empowered shot
is this not the point?
plain pewter
y'know it has its own cooldown but since it occurs paralel to the normal attack its more of a cumulative attack than a whole replacement
dim rapids
to be fair other rail builds are pretty trash
analog lodge
The point of hestia is to be different
dim rapids
hestia crit build is the only viable speedrun strat
lol
eris takes too long to setup
analog lodge
Zeus Shield, Poseidon sword and guan yu are all very different from their base weapons, that is the point of aspects
dim rapids
so i just found a bug with guan yu spear with charged skewer, but my run ended so i can't f10 it
rancid shore
was it the one where it can extend forever
rancid shore
someone mentioned it here at some point
dim rapids
pretty easy to replicate
get any special boon
sell it
not sure if you need to get another one but i think you do
earnest compass
what happens if you run out of time on tight deadline? is it just a game over?
timber turret
that's correct
earnest ravine
It gives you time to finish it if you're fast, at least, but the health drain is super harsh. I think it went through three death defiance in around 40 seconds.
dim rapids
it's not really that harsh iirc
it's like 5 hp per second
if you have enough hp you can tank through it
earnest ravine
It was happening during a boss, so I could also have been panicking, but it seemed to be doing a lot at the time.
worthy dust
I can't imagine beating Hades in 12 minutes on 0 heat, let alone 32
My average run is like 25 minutes?
naive tusk
Why 12 minutes exactly?
worthy dust
It was in reference to the above speed run post. I suppose it's closer to 13 but I have the same sentiment.
naive tusk
Ooh
Speedrunners use seeds (presets to say it bluntly) to do their runs. They practice them so they know exactly what to do to save time
worthy dust
That defeats the purpose =\
naive tusk
Most people do blind runs, which is the spirit of roguelike-roguelites, so clearing speed is lower than those who speed run
rancid shore
speed would be lower; time would be higher
naive tusk
That being said, itโs still possible to clear a run fast enough blindly if you stick to a weapon you like + get lucky with boons
Oh, yes, thanks!
worthy dust
I'm sure. I'm just surprised that its seeded.
rancid shore
there are some times listed that aren't seeded
those are much more fun to watch imo
worthy dust
I bet!
pallid dagger
@analog lodge your feedback suggestion is already part of the mirror. an upgrade tree there allows bonus damage for any enemy with a blood crystal in it.
green sable
another failed run....thats over 150 lol
hollow sorrel
Also keep in mind that most of the tight deadline games are not speedruns. Only a small fraction of the players are actually extremely manipulating a game seed
If the heat level is like 20 or less, then fast players could just play random seeds with tight deadline. At the most, they would just restart the game until they get whatever starting boon they wanted, and just replay that seed until they win.
tidal thorn
Boo, but it's speeding so different rules.
hollow sorrel
To be honest, on high heat I restart the game until I get the starting boon I wanted. This game doesnโt have any meaningful bad luck protection, and for example, you might pick the nemesis sword, and not get any attack boons offered for the first two biomes. The RNG is really so terrible, that itโs less hassle to guarantee your main damage slot gets filled, then possibly suffer through a 58 minute run because RNG
green sable
RNG F-s everyone here lol โค๏ธ
tidal thorn
Yeah, sometimes if you're not clearing well by Aspho then it's better just ending the run. Been there.
green sable
Well the constant darkness and keys rewards is annoying
naive tusk
It depends. I had the Poseidon Aspect Sword and no cast by Elysium due to bad luck (I even had god keepsakes equipped). Then Aphrodite came, offered me her Crush Shot and I shotgunned everything since then lol
rancid shore
does any roguelite have bad luck protection
green sable
nu
hollow sorrel
Some roguelites donโt ever force you into a position, where the game can go painfully slow if bad RNG happens.
For example, you can still speedrun through a Necrodancer game even at really bad rng
Dead cells had so much rerolling back in early access, that Iโm not even sure if bad rng could exist
Gungeon has so many usable weapons that bad rng didnโt really happen there either
And games like Hollow Knight or Sundered didnโt have meta-progression, so they didnโt have this problem either
rancid shore
is hollow knight even a roguelite/like
tidal thorn
No, it's closer to Metroid/Castlevania.
hollow sorrel
Depends on who you ask. Roguelite is so watered down now, that itโs completely different from itโs originally definition, and people canโt decide what new definition to use
But we can remove hollow knight from the list if you want. The others still stand
Itโs really just this game that has massively high damage modifiers, but might starve you of them for extended periods of time
Other games might have damage increase in like 10% increments, so being starved of one isnโt a massive problem
hollow sorrel
But i dunno, trying to play a cast build, but being stuck with the default cast, is like, what, 1/10 the damage of what a decent cast would do?
And because you canโt start leveling up your cast slot until you actually get a cast boon, which means the longer you get starved from a cast boon, the much worse your damage will be.. because cast boons have super high scaling from levels too
opal bay
usually to get the boons I want I just use the god/goddess keepsake and get (most of the time) their boon that I need on the drop
turbid needle
Time for some new daily runs ๐
opal bay
oh yeah regarding runs
I got tired of trying to get a 32 heat clear so I decided to lay off back to 10 and ended up with this build: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583419755608801312/679038259094880286/20200217215136_1.jpg
ohp
green sable
i can't even clear a 2 heat ๐ฆ
naive tusk
Does Demeterโs Rare Crop count every mini-chamber on Styx for its effect to trigger or only the big chamber with the reward?
naive tusk
Oh, then let me pick it up and confirm it
Iโm on Styx right now and Demeter is offering me that
brittle zealot
Its the same with Chaos boons
opal bay
Okay that was kind of embarrassing, should have waited more than 5 seconds to post another link, but yeah that run was quite something I wasn't going at first, but then after getting different boons from 3-4 different gods in Tartarus I kind of just sticked with it.
naive tusk
Thanks for the answers 
turbid needle
My run changed from dio attack to artemis cast when I got heroic cast lol
Oh nice and dual shot now as well x)
dim rapids
so apparently you can generate infinite bloodstones in skelly's room with hera
oblique tusk
i wish default cast was actually usable as a real combat cast
dim rapids
worthy dust
So many materials oh my god
green sable
wow
dim rapids
i buy quite a lot of styx shop diamonds/titan bloods
worthy dust
How do you accrue that much lol
worthy dust
How lmao. I must be on the struggle bus lol
dim rapids
- put all bloodstones into bow
- fire them all out
- change bow aspect off hera and back to hera
- you get 3 free bloodstones back
oh you're talking about bounties
get good builds, that's literally it
worthy dust
Even with good builds I flub the Hades fight constantly: (
dim rapids
at lower heat you can honestly build pretty randomly though it's not recommended, but at higher heat you pretty much need to stick with a certain few builds in order to win most of the time imo
try getting athena dash
you can dash into skulls to reflect them back, trivialises quite a bit of the fight
you can also dash into and through most of his attacks
worthy dust
Yeah one run I had that dialed in
naive tusk
Hermesโ additional dashes are lifesavers
dim rapids
oh yeah, that too
drift dash/haste is actually decent if you have good enough reaction speed
get +3 dashes? if you see him swinging, space that dodge button
drift dash? just dash once and you're probably out of his aoe unless it's on max overtime
haste is good in general though overshadowed by the above two options
worthy dust
Haste being move speed or dodge chance?
dim rapids
oh yeah, i also do all forms of troves
that helps to get resources lol
haste = movespeed
worthy dust
K
dim rapids
i forgot what dodge chance was called
but it's also good to get it
in general in terms of survivability
more dashes > drift dash (if you know how to control it and you're playing on controller, KB&M drift dash feels cancerous to control) > dodge > haste
worthy dust
I'm kB+m
worthy dust
It does make dashes a bit awkward
dim rapids
i will take attack/special/cast boons if they're synergistic with my build, but i often prioritise survivability
dim rapids
also, more dashes = more dash attacks
if your build is dash attack reliant (e.g. hades spear with serrated edge, nemesis sword with double edge), it's also pretty top priority
i had a merciful end sword run that i did recently where i got +3 dashes and merciful end at styx
it carried the run
worthy dust
You must have hundreds of runs.
dim rapids
not yet really
i'm at 98 clears
i just watched quite a few people play it on stream before i started, so i came into the game with prior experience
worthy dust
=\
dim rapids
took roughly 10 runs to farm some darkness for mirror for survivability and actually learn the patterns down
final boss is annoying at first but you'll get used to it
but in general, athena dash makes life in final boss fight way easier
also, you can get keepsakes that help you for final boss
zinc oasis
I'm actually learning patterns at +40% overtime. It's difficult with melee weapon
worthy dust
I basically have everything unlocked, just not fully unlocked
solid tide
Hold up a minute. Applying swifter Flourish to Zeus aspect Aegis's special makes it move faster, not attack faster? That's literally counter-productive
dim rapids
- acorn from eurydice prevents the first 3/4/5 instances of damage, though it also breaks from the mobs that he summons (which is annoying)
- broken spearpoint can give you mercy invuln for 1.5s every 7s, which is good for some of his combo strings
- lucky tooth is just a free DD
- cerberus is 50 extra hp if you don't have access to others
- bracer from achillies is flat 20/25/30% damage reduction from front
athena dash really helps with 40% overtime final boss
runs with athena dash for me are often way easier than runs without
same with athena cast/guan yu athena attack
turbid needle
Man the bow special is something I underrated
earnest compass
what does ambiguity bonus from bouldy do?
opal bay
nothing if I am correct, except to give you ambiguity feeling. 
green sable
it rocks you ๐
hybrid frost
Athena Dash = Easiest Dash
Next would be Poseidon's in my opinion.
waxen furnace
does the hermes "attack is % faster" boon affect dash attacks?
running a serrated edge build, picking between 21% faster special and 12% faster attack
waxen furnace
leaning special, as I'm running achilles spear
dim rapids
aspect of chiron was always good
turbid needle
Never played it tho! Wasn't much of a bow man at all
But it's suprisingly fun
Only weapon I really disliked so far is railgun
But that's probably cause I paly with a pad
turbid needle
What's the possible outcome of rerolling a god door?
Heart, Coin (big chance?) And other god I saw so far
green sable
i got a coin once
tiny portal
It can be a double god door as well
green sable
those can be difficult.
prime knoll
fwiw I only use pad, and bow and rail are my favorite weapons by far
turbid needle
So the reroll can be anything? hmm weird luck I got
tiny portal
Not anything, it won't be gems, keys or darkness crystals
Or nectar
And Im sure there are varying % for each possible outcome
waxen furnace
what if you reroll a gem door? will it reroll to one of the useful-in-run items?
prime knoll
yeah, keys, gems, darkness, and nectar are in the same pool. Especially useful if you have three of those options and could use a nectar instead
prime knoll
aye, but guaranteed if rerolling when the other three are already shown on a 3-room offer
wind sonnet
Is there any way to reliably find both Artemis and Ares in Tartarus?
turbid needle
Only can force one.
wind sonnet
170k Darkness?
naive tusk
Yay, congratz! 
tidal thorn
Finally...
https://i.imgur.com/brj7mnY.jpg
This all came together in the last half of Elysium.
Exposed, Double Edge, Five Dashes in three rooms.
naive tusk
Was it hard to dash-strike their backs? ๐ฎ
tidal thorn
Not rly. Dash through and then back.
And five dashes ends you behind them, special, continue.
naive tusk
I see. I will have to try that one day ๐
paper lintel
just finally pulled it off too, got the dream combo with weak/hangover
jaunty pewter
anyone have general tips for beating hades himself? iโve beat him a couple times now, and i can consistently get to him with at least one death defiance remaining, but i havenโt nailed down anything specific that helps with him
cursive pivot
taking extra dashes from hermes more consistently was what's saved me the most. being able to flash out of his spin range is incredibly health-saving
silver rover
Only weapon I really disliked so far is railgun
@turbid needle at first i disliked it too. then i realize i can do 680 damage with railgun dash attacks and specials which do 1.5k damage. no crits. just raw damage.
cursive pivot
same, railgun at first feels awful but the dash attacks change things so much
silver rover
taking extra dashes from hermes more consistently was what's saved me the most. being able to flash out of his spin range is incredibly health-saving
@cursive pivot aye, the final boss's spin is quite painful
jaunty pewter
i loved railgun from the moment it was added
cursive pivot
it's its only attack which hits me
cursive pivot
besides when it uses the ranged attack while you're standing next to it
silver rover
Finally...
https://i.imgur.com/brj7mnY.jpg
@tidal thorn grats on finally clearing with sword! my last clear was spear though.
jaunty pewter
(though iโm starting to get the hang of bow, i just unlocked the uhh cool aspect where you can load in the casts and i love it)
waxen furnace
what special boon do y'all like having for chaos aspect shield?
silver rover
partly because just hate bow
@jaunty pewter at first i hate bow ... then i discovered chiron aspect.
waxen furnace
things like demeter or dionysus seems good. anything that causes a stacking debuff?
jaunty pewter
whatโs chiron do?
silver rover
what special boon do y'all like having for chaos aspect shield?
@waxen furnace chaos throws out more captain america shields right? maybe ares's doom to spread some love? i mean doom
whatโs chiron do?
@jaunty pewter tag a victim with bow main attack, special to launch 7 (max level 5, 16 titan blood) homing shots at it.
jaunty pewter
ohhh sick
i donโt find the special that rewarding but god damn.. homing huh
iโll snatch that up next
silver rover
i used poisodan special and watch them moonwalk away from me
waxen furnace
I found base rank chiron bow to be pretty underwhelming. I'm sure it gets better with more bloods pumped into it, but as a base unlock I had a lot more fun/success with the other bow aspect (cast loading into main shot)
silver rover
I found base rank chiron bow to be pretty underwhelming. I'm sure it gets better with more bloods pumped into it, but as a base unlock I had a lot more fun/success with the other bow aspect (cast loading into main shot)
@waxen furnace agree. i only started using chiron bow at level 4 (6 special shots) low level chiron bow is a nerf to the bow actually ๐ฉ
jaunty pewter
cast loading seems great with festive fog
i mean
what am i saying, anything is better with festive fog
waxen furnace
I really liked ares cast with cast loading
esp with extra speed/homing duo from artemis
jaunty pewter
oh that makes sense!!!
god homing blade rift is such a good upgrade
its insane honestly
waxen furnace
the rift would only start when the arrow ended. so you wouldn't have that slow buildup til the cast reaches anyone
jaunty pewter
oh genius
empty locust
im on 16 heat and i was playing really well and then my pro controller died and zagreus started walking into the lava and i used up a death defiance and i feel dead inside
prime knoll
Rail Thoughts incoming in feedback- for those who liked my concept(s) the other day
Who here picks Piercing Fire for the rail (of those who use the rail)?
silver rover
Who here picks Piercing Fire for the rail (of those who use the rail)?
@prime knoll well i pick that if there is nothing better
prime knoll
I'm not sure what that reaction represents.
silver rover
hmm 100 out of 100 ?
or 100%
+50% vs armor is good
ah u wrote stuff in feedback, i go read now
prime knoll
I basically pick it if there's no other choice. I don't see it as bad, just flavorless. Piercing is good and bonus to armor is good, but I personally find it to be far less novel than the other options. I expect hammers to change (or let me change) how I play or exploit my boons.
I guess I'll have to try it some more and see.
@silver rover when you say if there's nothing better, which upgrades would be on such a screen?
silver rover
well for rail i love triple bomb. x3 boom is always good for me. ๐
if there's no triple bomb, then cluster bomb is nice also.
5 x 70% dmg = 350%. i use it like a hazard bomb its +350% damage increase ๐
prime knoll
rocket with either of those is ๐๐ฝ
silver rover
well rocket reload is kinda slower so rocket not really my favorite. but there's one time i end up with triple rocket bomb so its not really that bad when i shoot out 3 rockets haha
eh rocket works with cluster?
prime knoll
point blank cluster rocket is fantastic
earnest ravine
I did it. i cleared 20 Heat
prime knoll
Those satyrs go straight to the blood pool.
earnest ravine
and my choices leave MUCH to be desired but RNG hated me more so I guess it evens out! Uh, is this the channel to post the clear screen?
prime knoll
This channel has been used for such, yes. Whatcha got?
earnest ravine
A lot of really poor Heat choices to my name, essentially, but it was fun
Like i had... NOTHING to brag of aside from those duos and that legendary, and pretty much every boon came from Elysium and Styx. it was GROSS
Still proud, though!
prime knoll
Nice! I had a much lower heat but similarly jank clear last night. I was trying for a Zeus rail attack, but got Dio cluster rocket instead.
earnest ravine
Ooof. Was it at least fun to do at the end?
prime knoll
How'd your crystal beams treat you?
earnest ravine
They did a lot of static damage really fast, actually.
The Hydra melted. I didn't get the tracking upgrade until Styx so Thesus was a pain, but when they hit, those things just killed stuff incredibly fast.
As long as I could keep the enemies still or sandwiched between them, it was fantasric.
mild crag
delet feedback to change hestia i love that aspect 
prime knoll
Yeah, they're solid on stationary foes. Noooot so much against bombers
@mild crag lol
mild crag
i mean dont actually delete it
prime knoll
I like it, too, it just feels jank
mild crag
but delet
prime knoll
I want to snipe! I've had some really fun runs with it and Arty attack
mild crag
it used to be a hammer upgrade
pretty much what you suggested; 80 damage base, clip reduced to 1
prime knoll
yeah, someone (maybe you) mentioned that the other day- is why I have "(back) to hammer"
mild crag
oh i missed that
earnest ravine
The bombers are pretty easy to corral in between them? I put a crystal on each side and tried to manipulate their jump pattern so one was always targeting them at least. If they either lasted on the field longer or had a slightly better base tracking, it would've been more simple.
prime knoll
Yeah! crossfire beams. I find that to be effective, but their duration has me jumping to reapply them too often. ๐ฆ
tidal thorn
So Flurry Swipe seems to mess with Double Edge. Your second dash attack is replaced with a Flurry swipe. :/
earnest ravine
The Zeus shield helps with that so I don't feel like I'm wasting damage, but it is SUCH a pain. The only reason I grabbed crystals is because I had no cast at all and the other options were Rare Crop (when I had like 3 boons at all) and uhh. I think it was the AOE Chill
prime knoll
It'd be interesting if you could place the beams aimed at yourself, kind of like how Ice Wine just plops your festive fog X distance away instantly
I usually take rare crop, even if it may not be ideal, because I just like having heroic boons. ๐
earnest ravine
That could be fun as liike, an Athena Demeter duo or something.
prime knoll
oh man, deflecting beam walls
@mild crag What issue do you have with the possible Hestia change if the sniper functionality goes back to a hammer? Alternatively I could see Hestia's aspect just also becoming the hammer version, but that would close off most attack hammer compatibility.
mild crag
consistency in finding it
prime knoll
I feel ya. I kind of wish there was a Daedalus keepsake
for those times when you don't care which god you get, you just want that particular hammer.
Apart from the Hestia thing taking away the current functionality, what do you think of the suggested one (outside of where it would go)?
green sable
called good luck
prime knoll
nice- as long as the second room isn't a pom or nectar XD
silver rover
nice- as long as the second room isn't a pom or nectar XD
@prime knoll happened to me at least 2 times, hammer, then nectar ๐ฉ
tidal thorn
That's why you should always take one reroll early. :D
south robin
So if I buy a hammer in charons shop in tartarus, does that mean I will not find another in tartarus?
manic ermine
Second hammers can only appear Elysium onwards
south robin
So what I'm hearing is I should not buy hammers then
turbid needle
you can only get two hammers in total, one in the first two floors and one in the second two floors. there is no guarantee that if you pass up on one you will see anotherin that half
south robin
ok, so what im hearing is... dont buy a hammer lol
yes or no
unless i somehow miss one
turbid needle
if you dont get it now, its unlikely to show up again. so, if you want it buy it.
chrome viper
its not that unlikely honestly
turbid needle
flip a coin ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
waxen furnace
what special boon do y'all like having for chaos aspect shield? still having trouble getting my first shield win
prime knoll
I think I've seen two in the second half if/when I didn't get one in Tartarus or Asphodel. It's only happened that way once or twice, so I may be misremembering.
unkempt pagoda
aphrodite and poseidon have big +% damage boosts
tidal thorn
Aphro is the best Special, numbers-wise I think.
unkempt pagoda
also works well with dio and ares, since you can hit more foes with the extra shields
waxen furnace
oh really? interesting
thought you'd go something with a stacking debuff to make use of all the extra stacking potential
like dio or demeter
just buffing damage straight up seems good too, though. hadn't thought of that
I tried zeus special once and didn't quite like it
tidal thorn
I think my fasted run was with a shield and Athena/Ares. Got the duo.
unkempt pagoda
how far along is your chaos shield?
that aspect really depends on how many levels you put into it
waxen furnace
it throws around 3 shields now
tidal thorn
Good enough.
waxen furnace
I expected that, upon unlock, it would throw around 2 shields total given the wording
as it said "1 bonus shield"
that didn't appear to be the case
now it says "3 bonus shields" and seems to throw 3 shield
unkempt pagoda
honestly, get explosive return for certain and maybe sudden rush
and then get a big +% damage bonus god, like aphro
you'll wreck house
waxen furnace
kinda odd, as usually the aspect unlock actually changes something
tidal thorn
Chaos is just more damage.
waxen furnace
I forget what those hammer upgrades do, but will keep an eye out for those names!
oh really - the shield does more damage even in its base aspect?
did not notice. good to know
tidal thorn
Explosive is 60 damage pbaoe and return.
unkempt pagoda
explosive return is a base 60 dmg explosion upon catching the shield, and sudden rush makes your bull rush charge almost instant
tidal thorn
No, but with the extra shields it throws is more damage. The thing about the first upgrade is you do throw one extra shield, its just on top on the initial throw.
waxen furnace
ah yes, sudden rush I've made good use of! hadn't thought of taking explosive return as I keep being far away from the action but that might not be the best call
tidal thorn
So when you have 5 its going to throw in a star pattern.
unkempt pagoda
sudden rush ups your mobility by a lot so i wouldn't worry too much about being in the action
waxen furnace
OH I see. I thought I occasionally saw a second shield but thought I was imagining it. that's good then - I guess I'm technically at 4 shields total then!
got the dio special. let's see how this goes
unkempt pagoda
when you're slinging your shield around really fast for that much damage, being in the fray works wonders
waxen furnace
ah. end of tartarus, a good 570 gold and the choice is between shop and daedalus
tidal thorn
Daed.
cursive pivot
the 1 bonus shield is just an additional shield thrown with the base one in the same direction
oh i'll late
waxen furnace
haha you are indeed late but I appreciate you nonetheless
tidal thorn
Pretty much if you dont have a Daed by the end of Tart or Ely, grab one asap, first opportunity.
They're just too useful.
waxen furnace
yeah that was my inclination. thanks
the gold will get spent eventually
means I can skip the coin purse in asmodel (not even sure that's always a good call even)
tidal thorn
Yeah, I usually just save it for Styx.
waxen furnace
I can pick the dio keepsake and try and dig a bit deeper
oh really? I always go with the (spearhead?) for elys and styx as it carries my sorry ass through a lot
tidal thorn
Yeah, once Coinpurse gives you the gold at the start of the biome you dont need to keep it.
And if youre looking for a God, you already have Dio special, try to get another debuff.
Dem, Athena Exposed, Aphro, etc.
waxen furnace
yeah which is why I usually take coinpurse in asmo, as I don't need anything then, and then switch it out for spearhead once I get to the stuff I die to. I'm not sure I'd do so well against all that poison without the spearhead
fair point. I wish I didn't have zeus attack right now, it's not the most practical in a special based build
glad I got the athena dash though
waxen furnace
I'd like that, but the chance of an exchange is not too high I thought
tidal thorn
And if you get Penetrating Shot, lol.
waxen furnace
ooh, dread flight. that's new to me
it's that or bull rush powershot, or extra bull rush damage to armor
tidal thorn
It isn't, just saying it's a fun combo to look out for.
waxen furnace
oh noted, thanks!
tidal thorn
Dread Flight is fun times, and you can stack Dio with that and Chaos pretty sure.
waxen furnace
yeah picked it, meg fight will be fun!
hoping to get my first summon unlock soon
bouldy seems to be the one to gun for and invest in. working on that now
jaunty pewter
i just got my first victory in a while
didn't get a sc unfortunately but had a lvl 4 heroic poseidon cast on the hera bow
- 30% dodge chance and a couple other things
prime knoll
@south robin the visibility is totally nuts with Flurry + Explosive Fire
prime knoll
I'm surprised they don't have a colorblind mode yet
south robin
The games that have the best implementation allows you to just change certain colors.
prime knoll
I don't know that I've ever seen that, but that sounds nice.
south robin
overwatch has it. It allows you to change UI elements, and since you change the outlines of characters, it's AMAZING
League has a good colorblind mode
waxen furnace
extra shield bounces and increased special speed. this chaos shield run is FUN
prime knoll
Yeah, I used League's. I'm not colorblind, but I preferred that UI scheme.
south robin
Yeah almost all my friends have it on as well
tidal thorn
Same, but when I played Dota.
waxen furnace
only 100 gold away from affording a titans blood ๐ฆ
what a solid run, though. I "get" chaos shield now
and by "solid" I actually meant "better than any run I have done previously by an order of magnitude"
last boss melted. I've never used less than 1 revive in the last boss before
I am hoping for one blood sink per weapon. Chaos shield is going to be the clear winner for me personally. Poseidon blade is fun, and is a keeper. Chiron bow is probably what I'll dedicate to. What are peoples' favourite spear and gun aspects? Guan yu seems good but in dire need of bloods.
naive tusk
People worship Hestiaโs Aspect and Guan Yuโs Aspect
For the railgun, I like Hestia and Eris. As for the spear, Guan Yu has been the only one Iโve been using... I should give the other aspects some opportunities to shine 
waxen furnace
I liked achilles. but sorta like having a reason to try a spin attack build
prime knoll
Guan Yu and Hades feel the coolest to me. The spear's Special feels really blah to me, so Zagreus and Achilles aspect don't offer me anything.
waxen furnace
guan yu would be that. hoping I can put enough bloods in for it to not be quite as limiting
fair enough. Achilles special is fun for me as it's an extra dash that buffs dash attack
prime knoll
I mainly feel like the Special is sluggish. I can't use it quickly enough
waxen furnace
alright, gonna commit these 11 bloods to guan yu and see how it goes
naive tusk
I use spear special to clear Erebus
prime knoll
I want to J4 some wretches, but instead I have to telegraph what I'm doing.
naive tusk
I recommend it. I started using Guan Yuโs even at lv 1
Just do be careful and get as much HP as you think youโll need
waxen furnace
I'd use cerberus' collar if I had it levelled at all
oh god the guan yu aspect is so costly to level. D:
naive tusk
Equip it starting from Tartarus >>> BAM! Fully leveled by the time you reach Styx (if it had already some chambers played before)
Try the Special too!
It has this neat fireworks effect ๐
waxen furnace
it had none, but that's the plan! gotta get it leveled eventually
oooooh that's pretty!
and it auto comes back
interrresting
starting with 50 health again hurts though. ow
aaaah and first boon is a hammer with quick spin. this is going to be FUN
wonder what boons are the most fun with guan yu. I'd imagine athena attack would be a fun time
patent tiger
I am slowly improving. 23:16 in game time for a Chaos Aspect that has only been upgraded once. Maybe once I get good I can attempt speedruns.
analog lodge
Just PB'd at 20:23.99, it was also with the chaos shield(my other weapons were at around 23 minutes). Honestly this is the kind of game where it is in your best interest to learn to speedrun because gem and darkness farming takes so long.
waxen furnace
what do you gem farm for? all I see left in the shop are bits of what appear to be cosmetics
analog lodge
I want all of them though
waxen furnace
yeah fair enough, just making sure!
and damn this guan yu spin hits hard. regret going gold chaos over attack %+ chaos
naive tusk
Yes, most gem contracts are cosmetics
analog lodge
How do you farm it efficiently?
naive tusk
For Guan Yu, I recommend Quick Spin and Massive Spin
Then watch it obliterate foes in a huge AOE
Athenaโs attack boon is defensive so you reflect projectiles
analog lodge
Aphro has the highest % bonus
naive tusk
I just do troves and fish for gems tbh 
You can also get Dionysusโ attack for fast hangover stacking or Demeterโs for a cooler playthrough
Experiment and see which ones you like 
analog lodge
As much as experimentation is a thing, Guan Yu is definetly a high damage attack and thus you benefit more from % increases than on hit effects. On hit effects are best on low damage hits.
analog lodge
Nah, Arte attack actually works out to a lower average than most gods - only good if you also have heart rend.
waxen furnace
ah. nevermind then, I'll just take pressure points then
I don't really like artemis' aid
analog lodge
Arte Aid is actually really good for finishing off Theseus, it can skip entire Hades phases.
waxen furnace
mad regret. should not have picked the pact of punishment that added mechanics to the first boss fight. just used all 3 of my revives on that fight ._.
ah really? must be misjudging it
analog lodge
Those are the exceptions though, most of the time there are better options especially for damage calls. Still having any call is better than none.
waxen furnace
what are the better damage calls, typically?
kind cloud
i am so fooking bitter at how many times the game's rng fooks me over with bullshti darkness, f darkness, i'm done playing this game until the game changes this worthless thing, at higher heats you want boons, not fooking darkness and the garbage +5 health which gets knocked down anyway by budget cuts and lasting consequences
waxen furnace
I like athena if only because it lets me dps freely
kind cloud
i've tried my hand at manipulation at simply tartarus and darkness is the bane of my existence, fook darkness
and it's not just darkness, i don't want any more gemstones either, f all that worthless nonsense
analog lodge
Zeus, Demeter, Dio calls are the best dps, you can attack at the same time as using them
Arte also fits just behind them
waxen furnace
on that note @analog lodge what are your thoughts on other high % attack options for guan yu? poseidon seems to have high %s but the knockback might be anti synergistic on a multi hit short range thing
kind cloud
disagree, ares call with vicious cycle is the best dps
but ares call without vicious cycle is not as useful
analog lodge
Poseidon is the lowest % in the game last I checked, unless you are going for sea storm it isn't what you would pick - and sea storm is best on high attack rate low base damage attacks
waxen furnace
oh my bad. must have been thinking of special %s
at least going off what others in chat had been mentioning
analog lodge
Pos special is second only to Aphro
Actually scratch that Arte has the best special
waxen furnace
oh really? did not know
turbid needle
Artemis does not have highest special bonus, Aphrodite does.
Artemis has very low values because they're made up by crits.
waxen furnace
for attack buffing, aphrodite seems highest, followed by... demeter? athena? both are at 40%, with poseidon at 30%.
analog lodge
For special
Aphro is 80%common, 200% on heroic
Arte is 40% common(96% if you count crits) 100%(180%) on heroic
I was taking common as baseline by mistake
But for epic rarity it is 160 vs 152
This is a very close second and the gap likely gets eliminated the more poms you take
waxen furnace
I've reached Hydra with no attack boon yet D:
on guan yu
there's an artemis in the shop... probably better than nothing as I think I'll lose otherwise
turbid needle
Artemis Guan Yu is actually pretty sweet.
analog lodge
It is generally best to get your boon you intend to use for your main attack before you reach furies, if you are at hydra with a bad build then something is wrong
turbid needle
How's your health looking?
kind cloud
The projectiles of the burnflingers are just....grrr....wtf, sometimes they do damage in a radius, other times not. Feels inconsistent.
analog lodge
At least they are not the satyrs
waxen furnace
I usually try and do that, but all I had found in terms of attack was artemis and ares. and was hoping not to use ares @analog lodge . guess I could have just scrapped the run?
or made do with artemis earlier. it was common though and was hoping to avoid it
kind cloud
"It is generally best to get your boon you intend to use for your main attack before you reach furies, if you are at hydra with a bad build then something is wrong"
Yeah, it would be nice if the game would give me a dash and special for my poseidon sword-artemis crit build but it often doesn't, makes it very annoying. Hence, I was venting about how often I get darkness and gemstones above.
Btw, quick question: does Erebus count as a chamber or not?
^ Numerically
analog lodge
I generally take a god trinket at start to (almost) guarentee a useful boon, just kill hydra then scrap run
kind cloud
yeah, i used to do preferred boon keepsake before taratrus and then purse before asphodel
recently, i've started switching to a second boon keepsake
but something tells me i'm not doing it right
i've rarely been getting duo boons since the new update
cursive pivot
i do purse / god / god / collar if i have death defiances, tooth if not
waxen furnace
oh really? I've been going chaos egg start. not that I was convinced it was best, just that I found a lot of run defining stuff and upping the rarity seemed nice
kind cloud
meh, chaos angers me
sometimes he/she gives you something amazing, other times i curse him/her out and start over
waxen furnace
but a boon start would definitely help with consistency
kind cloud
and i always use the spearpoint before styx
but event that got nerfed
thanks, supergiant games
turbid needle
Spearpoint is still fine.
waxen furnace
been really liking spearpoint during styx. sometimes I use it starting in elysium too as I'm still in 1 heat runs and not so good at this yet
analog lodge
Duo boons are insane, go for the boons required to meet the duo boon conditions(it is best to memorise these)
Chaos is allways worth taking, with 3 options 30% of the time she gives you the perfect boon for your run
And usually you have 2 or 3 from her that are useful
Given that money and boon rarity from chaos are not the perfect boon, but are close, I would say that you have 3 boons in her pool worth taking (ignoring DD due to rarity) this means you have around 70% chance of getting something good - if I had the exact frequencies I could give you a more accurate number. But the fact is that Chaos is insane.
waxen furnace
I've been taking gold more often lately from chaos and it's been doing series work
kind cloud
i avoid charon until right before the boss fight, is my approach wrong?
i don't like to use coin until the very end
waxen furnace
yeah that's mostly why I like taking chaos egg. but then again it doesn't increase consistency as I don't think it makes chaos gates any more frequent... so maybe going god boon for consistency is best. I'll try that out next
analog lodge
Chaos trinket though is not the best, as the 23 damage taken is usually not a big deal unless you are going Guan Yu, though if you are trying to get a high rarity version of her boons or her DD it is useful.
@kind cloud shop before first boss contains hermes, also the end charon has much higher prices - so unless you want the extra Hermes or the diamond/titan blood, I suggest you do not save too much
kind cloud
no, no...
i mean...i wait until the end of the stage to go to charon
often, charon is an option mid-stage
i usually don't go that route
if you go to charon mid-stage, does he show up again before the boss?
atomic panther
Yes
kind cloud
so i've been doing an extra room of combat for no reason, eh?
waxen furnace
what is her "DD" in this case? I knew of DD as death defiance but I didn't think chaos had anything that interacted with those
waxen furnace
sorry, read it mentioned as her in this chat and followed suit. my b
analog lodge
Chaos has DD for legendary, extremely rare appearence rate
End of FIRST stage has hermes
Generally if you have 300 gold you can get a boon and something else.
I would not say it is "no reason", if the option is Charon or a boon/pom/hammer that you want, it is generally better to not take the shop in order to get the free boon.(though in speedruns/time limit heat, shop lets you skip a combat)
waxen furnace
oh I've never seen that. neat!