Let Guan Yu be the spin aspect, we need one that just lets me spam the attack
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
Base aspect is special
Achilles is.... Bizarre
Hades AND Guan Yu are spin based
turbid needle
Achilles is bad until Raging Rush is reworked.
solid cairn
oh just change the attack to be a 3 hit combo like hades does
fallow niche
Achilles is good but not good enough imo
You take too long to throw and rush the spear
analog lodge
Every other charge in the game is actually decent, so why is Hades spin so weak?
fallow niche
If it was much faster that 150% damage would make it a godlike weapon
solid cairn
yeah new attack for hades would be cool
turbid needle
Spin as a whole leaves you vulnerable while you charge
solid cairn
all the third aspects are super different and unique
turbid needle
That is the weak point
solid cairn
except hades
fallow niche
Guan Yu is the only exception because you can do it at a range
That makes it unique, interesting, and good
It had the WR for 32 heat a while ago
granite vine
so is Guan Yu considered a good aspect now?
fallow niche
Its also probably the best beginner 32 heat weapon
turbid needle
Always has been.
solid cairn
speaking of different attack, the inevitable 4th aspect for sword needs to have one
granite vine
it wasn't on like day 1 when people died trying to enter chaos rooms with it
granite vine
aha
granite vine
I've been gone for so long, so much has changed probably since I read those patch notes
fallow niche
Everything they changed post-winter update has been amazing
Winter update tried to make the game harder a ton and added Guan Yu which needed tweaking
granite vine
did they add more fish?
fallow niche
Then they really listened the community about what next
analog lodge
Bow Charge has range, Shield charge defends and rushes enemy, guan yu has range and does a ton of damage - so why is regular spear charge taking so long and doing so little damage?
fallow niche
That's when they added fishing to begin with I thought @granite vine
I don't remember fishing before that
granite vine
oh i meant in the little updates after major release
fallow niche
Oh, no
granite vine
no fish? :(
fallow niche
But most people still haven't fished in Chaos's place 
(it gives diamonds and bloods)
granite vine
want
turbid needle
I haven't even seen fish in Chaos.
fallow niche
I think I was one of the first since I saw it day 1
Haven't seen a spot there since
Its super damn rare
granite vine
rarer than defiance boon?
analog lodge
a 3 hit spear combo does 80 damage, which is only 20 less than spin, so why would anyone ever use the spin when not playing guan yu?
fallow niche
Yes actually @granite vine
turbid needle
Quick and Massive Spin, @analog lodge
granite vine
I didn't even realise there was one until I read about it here somewhere
same time I realised that oh, Chaos has prophecies too!
granite vine
the coolest
turbid needle
I got the defiance the day the patch dropped LMAO
And it’s been the only time since
fallow niche
What patch?
Was it made more common at some point?
I think I got it like twice before recent updates now that I think of it
granite vine
oh bless olympus
solid cairn
Speaking of patches
I know about Hestia spreadshot but what other broken combos of that caliber were fixed, if any
turbid needle
Hestia spreadfire doesn’t quite work the way you would want. The first shot is still a singular bullet, while the following ones are in the shotgun style spreadfire gives
Still a good pickup to deal with vast amounts of smaller enemies
I've heard rumor of Infinity Chamber and old Heavy Slug together.
turbid needle
... yeah good thing that got patched LOL
Had a run with it like yesterday, works like I wrote now
solid cairn
Wow I actually enjoy new chaos shield with ares special
Before, it was unfun because it was just too good
solid cairn
Shields fire more spread out now
kind cloud
was there a new patch?
turbid needle
Fires in a geometric pattern outwards instead of in a spread in front of you.
solid cairn
But I just tried it now
solid cairn
It’s arguably better for applying doom
kind cloud
isn't that what it always did?
turbid needle
Nope
kind cloud
no, serious
muted basin
I have shared my videos in self-promotion.
13:54 clear Hades 32heat with rail3/version v0.23932/ReqNyA-XIAN
Hope you will like it.
turbid needle
It used to throw all the shields in an arc in front of you.
Before it was in a cone, now it’s a circle around you
kind cloud
from the moment i picked up chaos shield, it always fired in 5 directions
turbid needle
The spread is different
@muted basin We spent an hour in here freaking out about it. Absolutely outstanding, man.
kind cloud
i'll have to take a look tonight
muted basin
There are videos with all weapons clearing 32heat in my channel.
turbid needle
👀
kind cloud
do max heat
granite vine
what even is max heat?
solid cairn
Applying doom to a whole room with one volley of shields is a beautiful thing
kind cloud
muhahahahahaha
muted basin
thx
@muted basin We spent an hour in here freaking out about it. Absolutely outstanding, man.
@turbid needle
turbid needle
If you have three, they fire out at the points of an equilateral triangle, then square, then a pentagon.
turbid needle
50 in hell mode
solid cairn
Even harder than last update
kind cloud
lol, don't think anyone has beaten 49 max heat yet, right?
granite vine
Y I K E
solid cairn
Nobody was able to beat it then
But I don’t think a lot of people really put much time into it
granite vine
I was struggling to approach the 10s and 11s, 49 heat sounds pure madness
solid cairn
Would probably be the most legendary achievement in the game’s history
granite vine
there better be a ton of special lines for the person to clear that
turbid needle
I've beat 32 Heat twice and unless something else changes I'll likely never break 20 again.
solid cairn
Would require astronomical luck and near perfect skill
kind cloud
@turbid needle why?
granite vine
32 is just for the statue?
solid cairn
32 is bragging rights
granite vine
gotcha
kind cloud
i saw that someone beat 40 heat recently
but it's like the pareto optimal rule
20% to do 80%
80% to do remaining 20%
turbid needle
Cluster Rocket Eris cheesed it.
muted basin
I think 32 just threshold
granite vine
meme categories?
solid cairn
You have to complete a random task as fast as possible
Something dumb
Talk to Hades 1000 times as fast as possible
turbid needle
First room fishing % 👀
hot basin
Pet Cerberus%
solid cairn
Catch every type of fish speedrun
granite vine
100% Lava Kill rate?
solid cairn
All special end screen text%
hot basin
Die%
solid cairn
Fastest death guan yu and heightened security are meta
fallow niche
Haelian is streaming right now and is practicing manipulation
For you all who want to know how it works
granite vine
I'm interested but also it's gonna be sunrise in a bit so I should probably nap some
link for later tho?
turbid needle
Hey Guys! Another eveneing with Hades, Gonna max out Guan Yu, anyone has experience with Blitz disk? Let me know what you thought please. Looks good, maybe good with Zeus lightning on hit?
fallow niche
Yeah people like it with zeus on it
Its a really awkward weapon but more than good enough for beating a run
turbid needle
Zeus/Demeter has been decent for me honestly
You need to get used to it, but it can do some work
also it still has the best part of the shield : Bull Rush
Oh so
how about world carver + special, does that work?
Never tried it, and honestly wouldn't be that great
muted basin
He also just said in the discord he agrees with me that Artemis cast Poseidon Sword is probably the best 32 heat weapon for speedrunning too, but that relies on you not dying :kek:
I think 32heat can be cleared in 12~14mins,with any luck.(With rail3 or sword3)
turbid needle
World Carver for the other aspects is good tho
ah k
A good part, for me at the very 'least, of the Disc's strength is being able to zoom from one end of the screen to another while the Disc follows you
You apply Chill with the strike/bull rush, and the Zeus special Disc just shreds
fallow niche
@turbid needle Today I learned that if Zag says a quip it changes the outcome of the next room
turbid needle
... They really went all out with the seeding LMAO
First hammer for guan yu, quick spin or massive spin?
I personally lean towards quick spin even tho massive spin is amazing... but especially with bosses.. quick spin seems better?
muted basin
I choose quick spin
muted basin
faster attack can make you dodge faster
turbid needle
Quick Spin is mandatory for spin builds.
Zagreus is rooted for too long to be safe.
Yep! I felt it really good during Meg boss fight
Quick spin was the right choice
Now lets hope for another hammer for damage 😉
gloomy scroll
Blood and darkness, that’s some bad luck
turbid needle
Ok what did I miss
fallow niche
gets thanatos at the very last possible room he could come in
right before the last elysium shop
and it was the longest possible than too
turbid needle
pfffft
Than had to be salty about not being able to win those duels
And wanted every chance to best Zag
fallow niche
We need a keepsake that prevents than from showing up for one biome or something
turbid needle
Or make him unable to appear in Tight Deadline
Like the survival rooms
But yeah that gets funky
fallow niche
Yeah that would be good
turbid needle
Doesn't Hell Mode enable Tight Deadline by default ?
4 charon shops in a row selling no boons 😦
If it does, that wouldn't be possible
fallow niche
oh god that was a bizarre bug
he screwed up the manipulation and suddenly as he went through the door he got a chaos noise for no apparent reason 
hollow sorrel
hell modedoesn't force tight deadline
fallow niche
And he entered the room on the wrong side
fallow niche
turbid needle
You are tearing the fabric of Reality too hard right now
Soon you'll tear the Underworld appart
Also thanks coffecrash
naive tusk
Hehe @turbid needle calling Zagreus Aspect “vanilla” sounds sweet 🍨
turbid needle
Of all the terms used to describe "base" variances of items/weapons/modes, Vanilla is one of the best
I meant unmodified.
fallow niche
Yeah
turbid needle
Well... Not a single attack modifier boon except the first normal dionysus attack boon... I hope Hades will go easy on me LOL
Very often I feel as if I jump over the 2nd phase end boss circle at his start of phase, but I get hit very often
turbid needle
Hades has a big invisible hitbox around himself for the first few seconds of phase 2.
It's been talked about numerous times before.
naive tusk
Zagreus: “Hey, Than? Do you mind not showing up as I try to escape? Thanks”
Than: 😐
hollow sorrel
Maybe a scythe symbol can be somehow incorporated into the door symbol, to let people know it's a Than room, so people can choose to take it, ignore it, or reroll it
lament coral
just have an option to disable Than that'd prevent him from appearing during the run
he's usually a good encounter that you wouldn't normally want to pass on
atomic mist
Perhaps a some sort of speedrun mode would be nice? Something that removes the random encounters
lament coral
I don't think it has to be a speedrun mode per se
having the timer on already prevents survival rooms from spawning
atomic mist
Oh I did not know that
lament coral
yeah, it's not mentioned in the pact
I'd rather these things were hidden
or tied in a bundle with other stuff
hollow sorrel
That's one of the reasons I always have tight deadline on. I think the current survival rooms are the biggest waste of time, where I'm usually just dashing around the edges of the room for 45 seconds
lament coral
it's a free room basically
mild crag
Ice Wine leaves festive fog still right?
eternal stag
mild crag
and it inflicts chill too?
rare salmon
The animation for Ice Wine makes it appear that Festive Fog is no more. That said, it does still shoot lightning bolts with Scintillating Feast and you take less damage with High Tolerance. Why do you ask?
rare salmon
Poseidon Sword, Guan Yu Spear, Chiron Bow, or Hestia Rail? For my next unlock / max.
naive tusk
Ice Wine is Festive Fog + extra damage + insta cast + chill (in a nutshell)
rare salmon
I really like the animation.
turbid needle
YO.
rare salmon
That's crazy! That's 50% of the previous WR. Which weapon @fallow niche ?
Wait, are we not talking about 32 heat? We must not be 🙂
rare salmon
Looks like 14 heat, Poseidon Sword, Artemis Cast, Fully Loaded, Dual Shot, Flurry Cast, and Snow Burst, for anyone curious!
mild crag
uhhhh
fallow niche
we need buffs
rare salmon
^
fallow niche
on all the terrible weapons
mild crag
no we definitely need nerfs
rare salmon
These WR runs take a lot of luck and a lot of skill. Why do you think we need nerfs?
fallow niche
this is why I don't like weapon mains 
@rare salmon Poseidon Sword is really good, but its marginally better than Chaos shield atm
If it gets nerfed we go back to that
mild crag
marginally is an understatement
fallow niche
No it isnt
Holiday is doing runs just barely slower than WR
With shield
If Poseidon Sword is nerfed then shield becomes top again
again
turbid needle
Not Hestia?
fallow niche
Just buff all the terrible aspects please
@turbid needle Hestia is too slow for any heat
mild crag
hestia is only good for 32 heat
mild crag
because its the highest damage safe weapon
also when i say nerfs i mean
both psword/arty and chaos shield/merciful end are both on the chopping block
fallow niche
Nerf rail so kossetsu freaks out more 
mild crag
if they nerf rail you'll hear about it from me for sure 
part of psword/arty needs nerfs, base sword needs buffs, bow arguably needs buffs, hades aspect spear needs buffs, chaos aspect shield needs nerfs, shield in general needs nerfs
rare salmon
@fallow niche So you're saying I need to unlock and max Poseidon Sword immediately before they nerf it? 😉
fallow niche
If you want? I play it because its fun
I don't trust SG with slight nerfs after double nova got GUTTED
I do trust them with buffs however
turbid needle
Hey, it took them a little bit, but it's usable again.
mild crag
both the rail aspects (yes both, zag dont real) are real good right now but i think they teeter on the edge of
if they get nerfed they will be bad
turbid needle
I beat 15 Heat or something with it a week or two ago.
mild crag
yes thats why i dont even consider it an aspect
fallow niche
Its good based on the fact that being ranged is a massive upside
And rail hammers being incredible
And that's really it
mild crag
evens out, the range bonus that is
since it can't stagger
longspears rip me to shreds lol
manic ermine
Id take a reduction in rail hammer power if the base was upped
fallow niche
I'd rather Zag aspect just get something more powerful, or at least more interesting, than that
Since cluster bomb probably needs a nerf anyway
If we're nerfing stuff that is currently too good
fallow niche
Cluster is even more powerful
mild crag
all the specials hammers are too good for rail
mild crag
except hazard bomb
fallow niche
because if they just nerf stuff I don't feel inclined to play any weapon differently
I'm just sad
At things being worse
Yeah Hazard Bomb is total trash
mild crag
then the game becomes easier
manic ermine
I wouldnt call it trash
fallow niche
I mean a ton of people struggle with the game already
It being easier isn't a problem because you can just push the pact
mild crag
SGG are already concerned with how easy the game is getting
fallow niche
lol
manic ermine
180 base damage is fine for hazard
mild crag
you saw the price nerfs in Charon's shops
fallow niche
Yeah I was fine with those
That was the gold economy
But most people got totally ruined lmao
mild crag
most people whined too much about it is what it was
it was only an issue with convenience fee
proper jolt
any summons need changing you think?
fallow niche
I think the community coming out about how they hated all the nerfs really tells you how most people aren't nearly as good as us Kossetsu
So us thinking the game is easy ain't really it
mild crag
that's why they have god mode
fallow niche
Yeah and some people still take tons of runs to complete the game
rare salmon
Keep in mind that you're among a group of people who study the game, chat about the game, theorize about the game. I don't think that SGG should be tuning the difficulty to a tiny group of people at the top.
fallow niche
Yeah exactly
turbid needle
I'm with Forge and Jellie.
naive tusk
Wow such elitism
turbid needle
Weapons need buffs right now.
rare salmon
Instead, give you more opportunities to up the difficulty. Maybe give you some "Hard Mode" Aspects or something.
turbid needle
Forge has 32 Heat clears on every Aspect, if anyone has earned it (besides our Taiwanese demigod), it's them.
fallow niche
If SGG listens to the more hardcore people in here too much they're definitely going to alienate more players on release.
turbid needle
I like high difficulty weapons like the sword.
mild crag
i said weapons need buffs too you know
fallow niche
That's my genuine opinion
rare salmon
@naive tusk I wasn't being elitist! I was saying that this group of people who's chatting right here and the group of people recording speedruns are a small percentage of the people who play the game. SGG shouldn't cater to us. The opposite of elitism!
mild crag
naive tusk
No, I mean Forge’s pov
fallow niche
What
rare salmon
I think Forge is saying a similar thing. Most people probably find the game harder than your average person who chats here or records speedruns 😛
fallow niche
That's fairly mean and rude @naive tusk
blazing mulch
Ouch , such heat here
naive tusk
I think the community coming out about how they hated all the nerfs really tells you how most people aren't nearly as good as us Kossetsu
@fallow niche
rare salmon
I think it was just a misunderstanding! Turn down the heat 😉
fallow niche
I mean its accurate
naive tusk
There’s ways of wording stuff. That sounds like elitism
turbid needle
That was the gentle way to word it.
fallow niche
Its not elitism when I do 32 heat runs daily without much problem
Like I don't expect most people to do that
rare salmon
@naive tusk I can see why that might appear elitist, but I also think it's just accurate... most people aren't completing every aspect on 32 heat...
Why is 32 heat the standard? Is that the last tier of rewards for heat levels?
mild crag
yes
fallow niche
Yes
mild crag
last skelly statue
fallow niche
Its because of skelly's challenge really
rare salmon
Thanks!
blazing mulch
49 heat is max, 50 for hell mode
mild crag
if not for skelly statue its an arbitrary number
blazing mulch
32 is Skelly last statue
fallow niche
Yeah def
It simplifies things so that random people who just record their skelly attempt can upload their run for the WR if they happen to get it
turbid needle
If it weren't for the Skelly statue 20 would be the top speedrun attempt.
rare salmon
I've been playing the Darkness weapon and upping the heat 1 at a time, so it's taking me a bit 😛 Only get in 1 or 2 runs a night 😉
blazing mulch
20 heat is the last where you get bounties rewards
turbid needle
Exactly.
fallow niche
That's definitely possible yeah
blazing mulch
Correct me if I'm wrong
mild crag
it's also getting close to the highest level of heat which allows you customisation (and not taking any options which make the game take more time to complete)
@blazing mulch yes but it's 25 if you're on hell
rare salmon
I'm about to attempt an easy Eris Aspect run - who wants to suggest a silly build? 🙂
turbid needle
Zeus attack.
solid cairn
Hazard with eris
fallow niche
please no
rare salmon
Hahaha
I made that mistake recently.
For the rest of the run, my Aspect was basically blank 😛
@turbid needle How about Poseidon attack with Zeus Duo? 😉
turbid needle
I will skin you and wear you like a raincoat
Knockback pushes enemies out of range of your attack.
blazing mulch
From things I think should be done is suggestion to remove the elements on heat list which increase damage and health of monsters. Instead each heat level could increase damage of monsters by 1% (50% on 50 heat) and +2% health (100% on 50heat).
This could passively increase difficulty level and don't make it too much hard for players who just want play 0-16 heat cuz the values will be low (10% monster damage is not much, as well as 20% additional monsters health)
solid cairn
Who else uses ares special on chaos shield
turbid needle
I have.
rare salmon
Athena attack with Artemis Duo?
OOh, @turbid needle Zeus attack and Demeter Duo? That's the only Duo that actually buffs Zeus' abilities 🙂
turbid needle
Yeah, it's pretty good.
But Eris with a full Zeus build and Splitting Bolt is terrifying.
blazing mulch
Try it with thaesus when he rage and call an God
turbid needle
Every build is enhanced by additional gods (if only for Privileged Status), though.
rare salmon
I don't think I've ever gotten Splitting Bolt... I'll go try that 🙂 What's the easiest god to pair for Status?
abstract pilot
i feel like any special upgrade works with shield of chaos, though i'm still gathering all the bounties and at around 16 heat
turbid needle
Demeter.
abstract pilot
erm, chaos aspect of shield of chaos
rare salmon
Yeah, that makes sense. Then I can luck into Duo, too.
rare salmon
Oh, cool
mild crag
Except for empty inside weak ofc
But that's two boons
Oh and jolted
But special case
rare salmon
Right, right. I plan to get Jolted, too 🙂
And since the Duo is so good, I might as well go for that.
rare salmon
No need to apologize! Friendly discussion, I think.
rustic spoke
Hiya, I have hopefully a real simple question about how to play if someone has a sec
rare salmon
What's up @rustic spoke ?
rustic spoke
So I just installed and played and got a few rooms in and died and have now been through some roms back at Hades' lair or w/e and I appear to be stuck in the training room
rare salmon
Lower-right, you'll find a door to leave again.
rustic spoke
I killed the skeleton fella and headed left down a path, but it just kinda stops and it seems to be the right way to proceed to play the game, but nothing happens
if I just havent explored enough ill keep looking but I seeem to be kinda stuck
rare salmon
The path to the left is just for pretty views 🙂
rustic spoke
ohh
rare salmon
Go down and to the right. You'll find the door!
mild crag
yeah i totally didnt realise how to exit the first time i played too
you aren't alone lol
rustic spoke
awesome, thought it would be quick, thanks a lot 🙂
rare salmon
Good luck!
mild crag
been thinking about what i said regarding game difficulty and i think it might come to down to aspects tbh
you can't progress to maxed aspects without success
and maxed aspects are extremely impactful
what do others think?
tiny portal
I haven't really had an issue getting Titan's blood. I imagine it will be easier to acquire (or rather, there will be more ways to obtain it) once the full game is released. Or am I wrong in assuming the full game won't stop after you defeat Hades?
turbid needle
Based on everything... the game should continue after that
spare scaffold
How do I get more Titan's blood after I escaped Tartarus with all of the default aspects the first time?
solid cairn
Beat the game
spare scaffold
Oh neat, thanks
Also how much can god mode stack?
(I suck at the game pls don't bulli)
mild crag
all damage resist caps at 80%
spare scaffold
Ah nice so I just need to die.. 25 more times
mild crag
so if you were at 70% and got like +15% from something else
it'd go to 80%
but god mode can push you up to that
spare scaffold
Guess I can try to git gud after I beat the story or something
mild crag
you could probably drop god mode when you have maxed aspects
oblique tusk
i mean
mild crag
that makes the game way easier
oblique tusk
the whole game is the story
turbid needle
🛡️ ftw
spare scaffold
I'm pretty much staying hooked by story first gameplay second haha
Was never really good at hack'n'slash
oblique tusk
also, i feel like growing is part of the experience
i guess you're never turning off god mode, then, rip
spare scaffold
I did beaten the Hydra without god mode so it's probably not too bad
spare scaffold
I saw the Noclip doc and it looked like the Rail could have been a move-and-fire weapon, did Supergiant changed that before they release it
turbid needle
you won't have much trouble beating the game when you have collected some darkness
mellow quest
i didn't know Erebus rooms in Tartarus could pull from Elysium enemies
bright mulch
The worst is when you roll the little chariots
You don't see that first one spawn in and Bam
Onions
Rip
rare salmon
Big spoiler question. What's the Middle Management for Astereus?
orchid cypress
Hello,
What are the best builds/gods for chaos shield?
I was thinking about Aphrodite on special for the %DMG bonus
then I don't know.
Need a good duo
rare salmon
Thanks, Coffee!
oblique tusk
i like doom best for the attack
bright mulch
Ares let's you apply a fat doom onto a whole room almost instantly with the multi shield throw
oblique tusk
doom or aphro
hollow sorrel
The most popular for chaos special, is doom, aphro, or some people like dio
orchid cypress
I did a run with doom on special and aphro on ATK
oblique tusk
and then if you running aphro you go dionysus special
orchid cypress
was pretty good
oblique tusk
and hope for their duo
orchid cypress
Which is?
bright mulch
Stack more poison against weak
oblique tusk
weakened enemies can have 3 extra stacks of poison on them
oblique tusk
which is very nice with privileged status
otherwise, like
athena attack ares special is very good
oblique tusk
because their duo boon makes attacks that deflect auto proc doom
orchid cypress
oh
tidal thorn
What keepsakes do people use after Tartarus?
I've been using Myr by default most of the time.
tidal thorn
Gotta use Acorn again.
thick sedge
I take acorn quite a bit for theseus and the minotaur
because that's where I think I'm most likely to get hit by a boss
then take lucky tooth for styx
tidal thorn
I know Spearpoint was just nerfed but I never had the game before then. Is it still a good option? I've never been blown away by it.
thick sedge
yeah me too
oblique tusk
literally never using it now
tidal thorn
k, at least I'm not alone.
tidal thorn
I leveled it and have been using it lately but, like I said, meh.
Myrm just seems better.
spare scaffold
I pretty much always use black shawl since I'm kind of a scrub
Trying to get myself to use other keepsakes atm
tidal thorn
BS is ok since you get it so early. Once you get the health you might not need it.
oblique tusk
olympian keepsakes are prob the best for the first two floors
thick sedge
what keepsakes do ya'll tend to take early game?
oblique tusk
i either take olympian keepsakes or than's
thick sedge
yeah I normally take an olypian keepsake first floor
spare scaffold
tried out cosmic egg but turns out Chaos boons are, well, ehhh...
tidal thorn
Coinpurse, a god one.
oblique tusk
i just quit out and restart with the pierced butterfly
thick sedge
I've been taking a liking to cosmic egg lately
tidal thorn
That's a good idea actually.
And I love Cosmic Egg. I really like Chaos boons in general.
spare scaffold
I'll just get more nectar to get all Olympian keepsakes first then I'll decide, but I quite like Ares so far
oblique tusk
ares i only like if i get lucky with doom effects
spare scaffold
Mostly because the Doom effect on most skill but cast seems pretty punchy early game
thick sedge
doom can get good
tidal thorn
I would worry about leveling up the god keepsakes, they kinda level themselves when you want to use that God.
wouldn't*
spare scaffold
Ares cast is a resounding meh though
spare scaffold
Art?
oblique tusk
and with ares legendary
spare scaffold
Oh Artemis
tidal thorn
Ares cast is cool when you get the supporting boons.
thick sedge
yeah I love cast builds so I try to get away from ares cast
it's great with the duo, but I don't get that often
oblique tusk
otherwise, yeah, it sucks dong
spare scaffold
Anybody take Aphrodite boons often? I find them kind of underwhelming
thick sedge
aphrodite boons can be really nice with some stacking effects
spare scaffold
Except for the cast which iirc is basically a shotgun and that's cool
thick sedge
has anyone tried ares cast with hera bow?
wonder how that would work
tidal thorn
Aphro is ace actually, because you'll get a damage buff later for stacking debuffs.
spare scaffold
Like how Dionysus has his >3 enemies with Hangover, increase damage kind of ordeal? I never saw it
tidal thorn
@thick sedge almost did that earlier. Might do it later tonight.
thick sedge
@spare scaffold no, it's the mirror upgrade that gives you a damage bonus to foes with multiple status effects
tidal thorn
Yeah
spare scaffold
How many keys is that
thick sedge
not sure
tidal thorn
It's called Privileged Status.
spare scaffold
Sounds like I won't be getting that one for a while
I just got the Rail and unlocked aspects and I'm fresh out of keys
What's the prereq for the glaive?
unkempt pagoda
do you mean guan yu?
spare scaffold
yeah
oblique tusk
random
unkempt pagoda
have a few aspects unlocked and achilles will have a convo for you
the speech bubble is the same as nyx’s when she gives you the mirror
tidal thorn
You want to level it to at least 3 before using it tho because of the hp debuff.
tidal thorn
Yeah, Titan blood comes from the first and last boss, and you can buy it from the trader.
spare scaffold
Does Meg get a HP upgrade after the point where ||Hades sics the other two Furies at you||
I remember the fight being a lot shorter before
tidal thorn
You damage probably went up, better skill choices, upgrades.
My advice would be to fully unlock Chaos on the shield first because that thing alone will do so much work for you.
Makes life easy.
spare scaffold
I'll look into it thanks
After I go and ||beat the old man into pulp first anyway which I failed my first time||
Also more questions if you don't mind, how do I git gud with the sword, I really want to like it but I end up feeling more natural with either the Aegis or the Rail
tidal thorn
Sword is hard.
spare scaffold
If I get Athena's boon on sword attack it makes my life much easier
Otherwise ehhh
tidal thorn
Yeah, a nice attack boon helps sword a lot but that's also just a hard weapon.
spare scaffold
Oh that's a relief, so I wasn't entirely a scrub, I got the impression it's the easiest to pick up but then even Meg was kind of a problem
tidal thorn
Yeah, other weapons are def easier, especially ranged stuff.
spare scaffold
including the spear?
Because it feels like the sword but gimped for me, I know the extra range is good but I don't know how to make sure of that yet I guess
The throwing is neat
tidal thorn
Yeah, spear has more range and some nuts hammers.
rare salmon
Because of a Chaos Boon, I just accidentally fought Asterius with Rail and no Attack. I didn't have a Cast, Special, or Dash Boon.
tidal thorn
That's awful but funny.
rare salmon
It was awful. Luckily not a timed run, so I just took my time. Still terrible 😛
rancid shore
am i the only one who likes max forced overtime?
chrome geyser
I just beat the game on heat 8, what do i need to do to get the reward? Talking to skelly does nothing.
mellow quest
the spear does its attack cycle a lot faster than the sword does with almost the same damage per hit, it just doesn't have the knockback for wall slams/cornering
but those become a lot riskier to pull off at high heat with the sword
solid cairn
@chrome geyser interact with the cloth
mellow quest
as for overtime at 40% the animations need tweaking, some are sped up faster than their telegraphs/indicators
hollow sorrel
^
trail timber
Big Daddy's spin move is even more desync I think.
hollow sorrel
I posted a bunch of slow motion videos of that move glitching when the hitbox is active, when forced overtime is maxed
hollow sorrel
I think I might like the Zag bow better than the other bows. Chiron bow's special damage feels bad on high heat, and it's so much work to prevent the Hera bow from launching cast crystals into walls and lava.
native forge
After 215 runs i got my first ever fishing spot on chaos
it is not the highest tier fish though, even with perfect catch 😦
tiny portal
I didnt even know you could get fishing spots in chaos realm
native forge
took me 215 runs so :^)
turbid needle
@fallow niche Did you see the new 32 Heat WR?
turbid needle
12:44 with Eris Rockets.
fallow niche
We keep inviting random good players to the speedrunning discord and they keep annihilating the WR in succession
turbid needle
fallow niche
I'm partly to blame
I'm going to bed the real limit for the 32 heat WR this patch is either around 10 minutes or just under it
Because 10 minutes was what it was before people started abusing seeds
And that's my record this patch on the leaderboard atm
the ~8 minute and sub times are all on the same seed that they run dozens of times trying to perfect their play for that specific run
Right now 32 heat is essentially gatekeeping out all the normal speedrunning strats on the basis that you first need pure skill
And to be able to be great at 32 heat in general before you can even attempt doing that stuff
mellow quest
unseeded speedruns are more interesting to me in a game like this but the seeded ones are pretty much invariably the ones that get regular repostings and such
fallow niche
On release I assume 32 heat will follow the same route
fallow niche
Exploding launcher is great
bright mulch
Yeah, were this serious and not meme runs to finish prophecies I would want to just stack that sick exploding launcher
mellow quest
is there anyone doing alternating weapon 25+ heat winstreaks?
turbid needle
I don't know how to say his name, but there's a Taiwanese player who's been posting a lot who is streaking at 32 Heat.
Mostly posting in #self-promotion
So if I wanna Flurry Jab, what's the optimal Aspect right now? Achilles for random Cast boosts?
native forge
hades seems easier to execute
turbid needle
Flurry Jab disables Spin.
native forge
achiles would be the only one then
sacred folio
Achilles for one less available hammer upgrade. That increases the chance of getting Flurry Jab
mild crag
Rip zag attack aspect
keen ocean
RIP being able to throw my spear clear across the room at will.
chrome geyser
https://ibb.co/SJ4LycF
I will say, exclusive access on room 5 is pretty good.
tidal thorn
Sword is so hard AAAAAAA
tidal thorn
Do you like using Flurry or just don't attack three times?
turbid needle
Mostly dash attacks.
Or World Splitter.
Flurry Slash is alright, it's nice that you can hold the button, just remember to repress after using a Dash Attack or Special.
Blood.
And.
Darkness.
broken cipher
Sword is probably the easiest weapon aside from Shield, I think.
turbid needle
Why do the Heroes have so much HP on EM?
broken cipher
Oh oof.
While I can't use Spear or Shield to save my life and can't use ranged weapons due to some limitations, Shield's definitely the safest of the melee weapons, Spear's got the most coverage, and Sword's pretty versatile. Optimal Strat: Dash often unless you use Flurry. Then Dash slightly less often. Stack status effects. Watch enemies melt.
mild crag
because elysium is a poorly balanced difficulty spike
turbid needle
broken cipher
All the floating enemies getting stuck above lava always is generally worse than—
Wait no. Flamewheel spam, splitter spam...and Theseus. I take it back.
Elysium is bad.
Pretty. Definitely cool. But the pain is real.
turbid needle
You misspelled "Longspears" and "Nemean Chariots".
broken cipher
Butterfly balls.
turbid needle
Butterfly Balls are only a problem when you're running for your life from the above.
tidal thorn
Chariots suck.
broken cipher
And Shield Heroes.
turbid needle
Greatshields are almost completely fine.
tidal thorn
Chariots are just not fun to run into.
turbid needle
Turn down their block arc just a little and they're excellently balanced.
broken cipher
Well, I'm being hyperbolic but yeah. It's not one single point.
turbid needle
And another crash at the surface, delicious.
mild crag
post-most-recent-nerfs longspears are the most powerful exalted now i think
broken cipher
The chariots are better than Satyrs at least. Or a small room full of giant rats. Or having three snakestones spawn on top of you in one aforementioned small room. Or all of those together in a large room.
mild crag
with the shield dude turning delay
i swear their sick new animations made them stronger somehow
tidal thorn
I'm a crazy person and like Styx. I don't run into much trouble on anything in that level.
The small room are awesome.
mild crag
Elysium is the most difficult biome
tidal thorn
Yeah, without a doubt.
broken cipher
I don't enjoy it. Especially now that cure pools are strangely fading into the background. And I keep getting the sack on my fourth run.
Elysium is all around painful but Asphodel just...no cast makes it awful.
mild crag
Styx is annoying tho and I can see why you don't like it
especially the giant rats which hit way hard
tidal thorn
Elysium is literally my build check. If it doesn't work there, might as well end the run.
mild crag
if elysium is meant to be that hard or not, it just doesn't fit with the rest of the game
broken cipher
The hitting isn't the problem. It's the poison. Poison everywhere covering everything and there's so many particle effects at this point in my builds that it all blends together in a giant mess.
tidal thorn
I honestly think Tartarus could be a lil harder and Elysium could be a lil easier.
Yeah poison is annoying. I feel like it could be replaced with a better mechanic but idk what.
mild crag
playing rail mostly i actually seem to finish asphodel the fastest out of all the biomes
broken cipher
Tartarus is definitely very easy now. But that's probably due to mirror upgrades and familiarity with the game? Making it harder overall would just make it a slog for new players.
tidal thorn
I'm sure it is, and I need to run in higher heat.
broken cipher
What heat are you currently at? O~o
mild crag
sweeping 25% max hp cut
chrome geyser
Tartarus is good difficulty right now i think. It took me about 4 tries to learn not to die to Meg.
Elysium has troublesome enemies. Some of them need to be tuned down. You can't play under 7 minutes and play without getting damaged a ton on elysium.
tidal thorn
@broken cipher Highest is Shield at 6, everything else is 2/3 except Sword.
chrome geyser
Jumping needs to be easier on Asphodel. That is the most annoying part. Rooms are huge and the enemies jump randomly very far.
I don't think renegade casts are a huge problem; you just need to aim centrally there. Also i can usually get in the lava, dash, grab the crystals and get out; max 5 hp lost if I do it.
mild crag
doesn't work too well with heightened security on
chrome geyser
Also poison damage is not that much in Styx. It looks worse than it is. If you go to a fountain in 5 seconds it's perfectly fine. I like styx; makes poseidon so relevast and fun. I think styx elite rooms are easier than the regular final elite rooms though.
mild crag
anyone else think that heightened security probably shouldnt affect lava?
chrome geyser
Oh heightened security needs a rework.
broken cipher
Yikes. I still haven't got past 4 on Sword. T_T Technically the cheaper version too since it's set the one that cuts boon options is active. But yeah. Low level heat Tartarus is just... consistently easy and good for farming that no-damage clear boost.
chrome geyser
It's one heat, and x5 damage from very common damage types.
turbid needle
I wish lava were less quicksandy and enemies were less likely to run away over lava.
chrome geyser
It should be 3 tiers ramping up to +300% with 1 heat each.
turbid needle
Like, when Elite Spreaders immediately head for the lava when I approach them I start grinding my teeth.
mild crag
gorgon heads turn and fly away into the great unknown
opal bay
I don't like how much wave makers jump around
opal bay
They make bow based runs so painful
tidal thorn
Thanks autocorrect.
mild crag
Lava is just way too prolific in asphodel
broken cipher
Floating gorgons, floating wraiths, just...rooms full of them. And wave makers attacking from the unknown. Woo. At least the bloodless are highly obvious.
mild crag
It's not like elysium or Tartarus where the traps are well defined
chrome geyser
In general traps are ill defined. For example hades pots are considered traps for damage purpases. I find that stupid.
broken cipher
To be fair, most lava damage I take is 100% my own fault. Like misjudging the angle to step on boats or walking into it to clear floating enemies. Or Hydra heads spitting it.
chrome geyser
Natural lava should not be considered as trap
broken cipher
Spike traps in the Alecto fight. I can see them in every other fight, just not that one for some reason.
mild crag
fun fact it doesnt even say trap kill for lava
it says lava kill
so there is a distinction already which is ignored
that just 100% adds confusion
"hm lava kill, this must be distinct from traps"
broken cipher
Huh. Lava is it's own thing except for when it damages the player. Like small rooms in Styx are their own thing only when it comes to consumables and not boosts to the Plume.
mild crag
ye
broken cipher
The Fates are cruel and mock our suffering.
mild crag
not false
chrome geyser
All these isuues are minor;and after playing for a while i can say that the game feels easy. It felt so hard at first. So i now can't wait to finish nhe grind and max out all aspects; so i can just play with high heat and start complaining then.
oblique tusk
i'm probably having a ton of trouble because i haven't gone lower than 16 heat since i unlocked the pact...
and i generally roll with around 20 heat lmao
chrome geyser
Btw why do people keep playing 32 heat if you can just turn on everything?
tidal thorn
Some things make this game super easy, like Chaos, but overall making builds and slowly turning up Heat so far has been fun enough.
oblique tusk
32 is the last benchmark for any semblance of a reward
opal bay
All on is insane also
You are practically playing for no reward that the "I did the highest heat run"
mild crag
turning on everything is impossible, 32 is the last rewards and is about the highest it's possible to clear with every weapon
chrome geyser
You mean the statue of skelly?
dim rapids
highest heat i've seen done was 45 heat on shield
dim rapids
was some random post on reddit
chrome geyser
Well it's a rogue like game. Game gets easier aszyou get used to it; so you need a challenge to feel accomplished after a while.
When i play bastion, i need to turn on all the idols or im naving such an easy time.
broken cipher
Personally, I need to do as much heat as possible since there are story unlocks behind resources and I was foolish to spend what little I did gather on non-essential items. Plus the titan blood is near. Definitely never have enough money for that when it shows up at Styx. And since all other weapons are off the table...grinding Sword to full heat is the only way it's going to work. ^~^ It'll be fun to eventually not be awful at this though.
chrome geyser
I would really like it if titan blood was easier to come by. Like if the styx buy was 1000 and guaranteed until you unlock 80% of aspects.
broken cipher
It's... probably possible? Just not...right now...for me...maybe not ever. But hey, Zag's not giving up on getting out of the Underworld!
chrome geyser
@mild crag i will come back and report in 3 months
mild crag
report on what
dim rapids
you should have enough money if you don't splurge
i buy all the tinge of erebuses that i can and even then i usually have enough money to buy the diamond/titan blood at the styx shop + a few other items
(assuming no convenience fee)
tidal thorn
@broken cipher Why can't you use other weapons? Sword really is harder vs the other weapons.
chrome geyser
Sword to full 45 heat.
broken cipher
I...kind of have to in order to make my build work, most times. Because I'm running the heat option that cuts out a boon choice. Often leaving me with less than ideal setups. XD
Oh, I don't have a working mouse and I'm awful at using the track pad. And auto aim is...not something I find particularly helpful. So all long range weapons are out. Shield and Spear I'm just bad at. Can't clear a run with them at all.
dim rapids
full heat is 49 now
oblique tusk
50 in hell mode
dim rapids
also shield >>>>>>>>>>>>> sword
chrome geyser
I have taken to avoid shops in general, and use bouldy 4 times before the final room in styx. Usually can clear the styx shop.
mellow quest
what in the world is it that causes the Elysium enemies to dash like dozens of times in a row
so annoying
oblique tusk
their bullcrap ai
chrome geyser
@spike i use a mouse with a trackball. I find targeting not bad.
tidal thorn
Controller > keyboard for this game imo, see if y you can use one somehow.
mellow quest
the optimal setup would be controller movement with mouse aim imo
mellow quest
movemaster is very expensive though
broken cipher
Buying a new mouse would cost money and I generally avoid console games specifically because I don't like using controllers so using one for Hades would be just as uncomfortable. Yes, I 100% realize I am making this more difficult for myself. XD But I've gotten used to it. It's a testament to the SGG team that the game's even playable cutting out a feature as useful as Cast and half the weapons.
mellow quest
on a sidenote, flurry jabs is easily my favorite hammer upgrade
chrome geyser
@tidal thorn i fint the mouse much better than controller.
mellow quest
i've got a sick run with weak special + hangover attack and the duo boon that lets hangover stack 3 more times
broken cipher
Flurry in general is amazing combined with Demeter or Dionysus. Just. Stacks for days.
chrome geyser
Mouse and keyboard feels so much easier, to me, than controller
mellow quest
i get to max stacks very quickly on enemies with the flurry jab
mild crag
Definitely preference for mkb or controller
mellow quest
it's also nice to be able to stunlock the longspears with flurry jabs because everything else is just barely not fast enough to
broken cipher
It's a beautiful thing. Or Flurry combined with Artemis on attack with Nemesis aspect and a general crit build, not sure what Spear has for that. But crits. So many crits. Enemies just gone.
And Ares. Extra attack damage after kill, extra damage, doom. Just. So nice.
mellow quest
has anyone mathed out if Artemis attack is better than Aphrodite attack for damage output on a fully upgraded nemesis
turbid needle
I seriously doubt it.
broken cipher
Oh gods. Haven't run across Aphrodite regularly in a while. :/
mellow quest
it becomes an even more complicated question when you factor in if there are other Arteis crit boons, like the damage vs armor and if you have the aphro/artemis duo that increases crit damage by 50%
so i dont blame people for lack of trying
broken cipher
Does her damage boost vs armour stack with Armorslayer?
Well, time to figure out how feasible it is to get Heart Rend and Deadly Reversal on the same run then. While also building Artemis as a main build. If I could guarantee Battle Rage I'd pick up Ares as well but it's going to be difficult enough already.
sacred idol
@silver rover If you're responding to someone post it here, might wanna delete that as it was marked feedback
Unless you're using it as counterpoint feedback intentionally, in which case, fair
dim rapids
alright 40% overtime on non-shield weapons is pretty cancerous
native cipher
yeah, the satyrs especially
like, the projectile connects with you before the sound queue even finishes playing
dim rapids
i was stunlocking a satyr by wall slamming with shield
and i still got poisoned from a dart
manic ermine
Assuming max roll epic, Aphrodite beats Artemis with Nemesis buff until you get 180% damage from other sources
native cipher
i think they need to give poison a ~1 second grace period before the damage actually starts ticking. given how much damage it deals and how borderline impossible it is to avoid at times, it feels way more punishing than it should be.
i feel forced to take spearhead at styx and any time i don't i feel like i handicapped myself.
stable onyx
3 round burst negates hestia aspect right?
frosty pier
I think Hestia Overrides everything for 1 shot.
cursive pecan
^^correct, your first shot after a reload will be a single shot with hestia, even with delta chamber or shotgun
native cipher
always found that super disappointing
stable onyx
hmm ok
native cipher
still, really sad hestia doesnt have synergy with the shotgun
dense locust
I've got 17+ heat on every weapon, 32 on the rail, and I just now realized I can dash special... although it is awkward on the controller
dim rapids
what was your build for 32 heat on rail?
dense locust
Eris with rocket bomb and cluster bomb I think for the hammers
Bouldy for my keepsake and I made sure to leave the reduced healing heat to 0
I think I also lucked out and got 2-3 lives restored from the 3rd biome
dim rapids
ah so you basically went cluster rockets
i feel that's literally the only way to do high heat lmao
dense locust
chill on the attack I think
I love Eris on the rail because you get good damage from all sources but also great disable with attack
and cluster rockets damage is insane
I hope they implement a save replay system or something along those lines
dim rapids
artemis cluster rockets is basically a free clear
dense locust
I also got some clutch chaos boons
dim rapids
your other boons don't even matter
dense locust
You just have to not die
Throwing in chill attack is helpful though
I think I also had athena call and the hermes boon for 45% dodge and movespeed after call
So basically I got lucky and had good defense and amazing offense
dense locust
hmm i really wish I took a pic. I think chaos for the first biome
Which ended up paying off
maybe money for the second, but Im not so sure because the increased store prices was probably maxed
and then im sure broken spearpoint for 3 and final boss
For me, avoiding getting completely wrecked in an instant makes broken spearpoint mandatory
Is dashing and using special at the same time easy on mouse and keyb?
dim rapids
it's literally just spacebar + RMB for me lol
dense locust
It's not terribly difficult on controller but Im considering switching
I love the movment of the controller
but i've auto targeted the wrong target so many times with ranged builds
probably a way to turn that off but its also helpful
stable onyx
how rare is to find 2 legendaries from chaos boons lol
dense locust
Yeah thats insane
dim rapids
i finally got my first legendary chaos in 80 hours
and then my game crashed due to memory leak
and all progress was gone
dense locust
I know the keepsake doesnt say it, but I feel like when I use the egg, I see more chaos portals
stable onyx
dim rapids
??
dense locust
I love when the seed gives me daedalus hammer right off the bat
lets me try out a few different things
sacred idol
I've had two
dim rapids
does swift strike decrease spin charging time?
mild crag
It changes power shot time so I imagine yes?
mellow quest
it feels like the second room (well, first after the beginning) is always a meta upgrade
dim rapids
true
mellow quest
and always nectar after hammer
dim rapids
i'm actually at thesus w/o an attack boon
stable onyx
i died in between so its empty btw lmao
dim rapids
this RNG is killing me
stable onyx
i have 5 slots rn tho
mellow quest
so can we have Freak Accident back yet cuz lightning rod is both boring and ineffective 
dense locust
Yeah sometimes if I don't get him I just let myself die because I know I wont win
Or I use to bank as much gold and try to buy the expensive resource near the end
dim rapids
i have way more than enough resources
but i still buy the styx shop's diamond/titan blood sometimes lol
stable onyx
i bought titan blood a few times if im already strong enough
6 slots with skelly lmao
4 of them are gone tho
and i had 1 athena boon that replenished 1
i already died 5 times i dont think i can kill hades
i struggle with dmg
dim rapids
also is artemis' call the only call that has 5 bars?
sacred folio
Yes. It's cheaper than other calls
mild crag
@mellow quest it isn't always meta after hammer, I got a boon after a hammer, unless you were being hyperbolic with that
mellow quest
the Artemis cast and call both ignore shield blocking, right
mellow quest
and no im not being hyperbolic, every single hammer start i can remember has had nectar after it
the Artemis cast 100% ignores block
mild crag
Oh well it is possible
dense locust
Okay I think all casts ignore block then
mellow quest
nope, the other casts can be blocked
though sometimes the AoE ones like flood shot can still get stuck in a blocking enemy anyway
mild crag
Part of why it's so strong for speedrunners
dense locust
Okay yeah now that i think back
mild crag
Theseus and shield bearers don't slow them down
dense locust
How about trippy shot
mellow quest
that can be blocked because reasons
mild crag
It has a explosion outwards
dense locust
I did artemis cast build with the sword to get up to like 14 heat i should know this...
mild crag
So it depends when the origin of the explosion is
Same as rail special
Which is not fair
Since they can be blocked but they can't back stab
Only directional when it's convenient for the enemies
mellow quest
all the drawbacks but none of the benefits :)
dense locust
So there is some unknown angle of block that the bomb would have to be behind
mild crag
dense locust
Or is the angle known
mild crag
Rail special used to backstab
mellow quest
that would still be better
mild crag
But removed because reasons
dense locust
Rail special backstabbing would be reason enough to remove irt
mellow quest
plus it's another mechanic that requires skill in regards to placement
dense locust
Cluster rocket a dude to the back with two status and a cast in it
mild crag
It's fine if rail backstabs with special
mellow quest
rocket can backstab
mild crag
That's an issue with how op cluster rocket is not with backstabs
dense locust
true
I just trying to think of boss one shot scenarios, or at least 1 shot till its next phase
mild crag
Big hestia crits
mellow quest
i just don't get why cluster rocket is allowed but 3x rocket in succession isn't