wasn't facing the right way or something else hit you
#h1-builds-and-combat
fiery shale
fiery shale
oh yeah those
rugged estuary
As I said, I didn't move.
fiery shale
the hammer "upgrades" that are downsides haha
rugged estuary
I stood static, blocking, and hades didnt move either.
mellow quest
And there's one where eventually the holding charge stops blocking I've heard
rugged estuary
I posted about it in feedback and got a lot of thumbs up, so it doesn't seem like it's only my problem
And yeah, that can't be it either, because it stop blocking entirely
it just didn't block like every third or fourth laser tick
mellow quest
Don't know then, I've always successfully blocked the full blast if I was quick enough
Even on 40% overtime
jagged canopy
Hades's spear lunge attack goes thru block
mellow quest
I've blocked that + the bloodstone too, just can't be too close to it
rugged estuary
I don't know what changed, because there hasn't been a patch, but I just took charged skewer on guan yu and it didn't do the instant max range thing any mroe
tidal thorn
So does anyone try to force a build when you use a weapon? What's your strat for it? I don't really know much about forcing builds, if you can at all.
fiery shale
i usually force dio duo with chaos shield
just know your basic path of what you want to do
so for me i want to get low tolerance with dio's special
so i'll start with dio's keepsake to force first boon as dio and hope to get what iwant
then use fated authority throughout the run to roll to which room i want
and try to avoid taking too many boons from gods you don't care for
i think it soft limits you to those gods once you've gotten like 3 or 4 of them
tidal thorn
I know you're not supposed to roll blue laurels but what are the rules for rolling gold ones?
fiery shale
blue laurels signify things that last outside of your run
so darkness, nectar, etc
gold is stuff in the run
boons, hammers, poms
they can roll into something of the same laurel
so you can roll a pom into a hammer
or a boon into a heart
etc
tidal thorn
Huh, that's actually perfect.
static skiff
Lol, I got winter harvest even tho I had gotten only 1 other demeter boon, and even that I had sold earlier.
mild crag
Also note that minibosses can only be boons
So if you're looking for a boon rerolling minibosses has the least other noise
tidal thorn
Is there an increased chance of a hammer in Elysium? I know the game tries to give you two hammers by the end of El, but I feel like when I roll the first two rooms it's always going to be a hammer.
mild crag
Hammer is just always in the reward pool and shows up frequently
It's just that it won't give you a second one until elysium
pastel jolt
you can't get a reward that's already on the other doors, also
fiery shale
it's just common to happen is all
mild crag
That's why you always seem to find hammers there
tidal thorn
Is it even possible to get three hammers?
rugged estuary
no
pastel jolt
it is not
fiery shale
nope
tidal thorn
k
fiery shale
hard capped to 2
mild crag
Ooh lemme say no too
fiery shale
no amount of rolling will give you another
pastel jolt
used to be! you used to be able to buy a third in styx
tidal thorn
Didn't think so but my as well find out for sure :P
rugged estuary
Does someone know how Erebus works in terms of room count? Does it "use up" a room towards the boss, like chaos does, or is it a bonus room effectively?
mild crag
Uses up a room
rugged estuary
Thanks.
mild crag
Only time it's a bonus room is if you take it before the pre-boss room
Since you can't skip that room
So in chamber uhh
11 in Tartarus?
Or 12 I forget
rugged estuary
Oh, neat. Good to know.
fiery shale
god the shield makes the final fight so easy
tidal thorn
Chaos shield is to good. I know it's a pve game but geebus.
mild crag
Shield in general is just free because of the block
tidal thorn
Shield in general I actually think is too easy.
fiery shale
apparently it's already gotten nerfed too 😂
mild crag
recalling days where the shield DEFLECTED
And the extra shields have been nerfed a few times
fiery shale
what's a good build with eris rail
tidal thorn
TRIPLE BOMB
mild crag
Yes actually
mild crag
With Dio you want to go to aphro too for low tolerance
fiery shale
i assume into dem for jolted
mild crag
And Zeus you want to go for demeter
tidal thorn
Ares attack on rail is good too
mild crag
Yes
fiery shale
ye nice
mild crag
Cold Fusion is very good
tidal thorn
A lot of "bad" attacks are ok on the rail.
fiery shale
oh what hammers
fiery shale
nice. got flurry
tidal thorn
I found out Inescapable counts as a debuff for Priv the other day.
So that's awesome.
mild crag
That's strange because it doesn't
tidal thorn
k I'm prob crazy then. I don't remember anything else for that run but thinking that.
frosty pier
Hmmm. I just died from invisible slap to the face it seems.
That Hades fella is hiding something
mild crag
Was it in elysium that place is wack
frosty pier
Now that Elysium is a new labyrinth, I'm not surprised that there's bullcrap everywhere.
dim rapids
making builds with the rail is so hard i usually just decide to go cast builds on rail instead
even w/o crystal clarity demeter cast is still pretty good
dim rapids
pretty good mob clear
frosty pier
In before we are all've been bamboozled and Cast is secretly the last weapon.
dim rapids
throw a cast and leave it there and it helps you to clear mobs
tidal thorn
Pet class.
mild crag
I find lightning rod rarely useful but in some situations its okay
Freak Accident was cooler
fiery shale
lightning rod seems like it sucks
you want your cast either as boiling blood or like
something useful
mild crag
The old Zeus Artemis duo boon, freak accident, made it so enemies you crit got struck by lightning
That's way more cool
Maybe it went infinite with pressure points or something
fiery shale
reworked because it was too strong? or too similar to sea storm
mild crag
And that's why they took it out
dim rapids
lightning rod kinda sucks until you get artemis legendary
then you dump all 6 bloodstones on the floor and it's free mobbing
mild crag
I don't recall enough of it but I'm pretty sure it was one of the better duos
fiery shale
wait triple or cluster for eris rail
mild crag
Preference I suppose but I like triple more
tidal thorn
Triple
mild crag
Since you usually lead yourself with your bomb
mild crag
You can place the others useful places
dim rapids
is broken
mild crag
Instead of all over the shop
tidal thorn
What are attack preferences with GY? I didn't expect the primary to be so slow.
dim rapids
artemis for big boy crits
athena for easy deflects and safety
also if you scroll above you can see my previous guan yu special run
could do 4.6k crits
sacred idol
Who would downvote a cat
lament coral
doesn't seem to proc on evey hit
dim rapids
apparently it's bugged so
rugged estuary
Is chaos shield still bugged to throw one too few shields?
rugged estuary
Oh, neat.
lament coral
you can't see the 5th because it overlaps with the main shield, but when the main shield hits an enemy 2 damage numbers appear
can easily be tested against Skelly
you'll see 15 appear twice when the front shield hits
rugged estuary
You are right. I like that.
I hadn't been using the shield so far because I thought it was bugged.
What's better for it, dio or zeus special?
lament coral
Chaos? Dio. Zeus doesn't proc on extra shields, only the main one.
Chiron bow has the same problem, where only 1 special arrow is amplified
which is understandable, the damage would've been off the charts
but also confusing
lament coral
some like Artemis special on Chiron, it feels inferior to me after the nerfs
Aphro special has been my go to
just get another status on attack
also heard that Demeter might be good on Chiron, with the boon that causes an AOE blast every 10 stacks
haven't tried that myself though
pallid dagger
i have so far encountered four staggered roomfuls of firewheels in a row
if this ain't tweaked in the next update i will throw a chair
rugged estuary
So, Dio is not good on Chiron then?
Also, what about poseidon / zeus duo chiron? Does that work?
lament coral
doesn't proc off each arrow, though that one is a bug, allegedly
Dio procs off each arrow but I didn't like it myself
lament coral
you reach max stacks with 5 arrows, so anything above that is wasted
spare scaffold
Questions about god mode, what's the criteria for increasing damage resistance and what's the maximum cap?
dim rapids
i'm also looking for new chiron builds to try lol
since sea storm is bugged
mainly been doing dio special, aphro special + charm, demeter special + chill explosion at 10 stacks
tidal thorn
Yay finally won with GY.
https://i.imgur.com/EBaAAuR.jpg
Pretty great setup and dream hammers.
pallid dagger
that Heartbreak Flourish~
i know Demeter plays well with Chiron, and Dionysus technically does too. any other good builds discovered?
dim rapids
used to run sea storm but it's bugged and not all lightning procs so
if you can build +4 special arrow and charm with aphro on special you essentially get a free clear
that's all i know
sacred idol
Facebreak Flourish
dim rapids
+4 arrows on special is not necessary, but it does help to increase the charm
fun to make asterius smash thesus
sacred idol
@tidal thorn What was your other hammer?
tidal thorn
Quick AND Massive.
sacred idol
Oh
Sadly, not Quick+Charged Skewer
That with the ridiculous Flourish you had would wreck even faster
pallid dagger
@here is Dire Misfortune worth it? like, how much does it boost the doom damage by?
dim rapids
you can also go artemis special with any easy way to apply weak
and build for the duo
to go for big boy crits
tidal thorn
I could have done that but I wasn;t thinking hard about the special.
sacred idol
Aphro thicc damage
dim rapids
aphro attack, artemis special, any other status curse
analog lodge
@pallid dagger Only 10 per hit, it actually DECREASES damage as it delays your doom
sacred idol
Dire misfortune...
dim rapids
add deflect/exposed and you potentially have 100 damage arrows
sacred idol
If you have the duo that autoprocs doom, it's a nice damage buff
Wait, is that the stacking?
Right, it is. Impending is the delay doom
But if you can auto detonate dooms it's good
dusky drum
are there any fun nemesis runs besides artemis??
pallid dagger
nemesis + aphrodite is always good. nemesis can fill in for artemis if you want to save space and time for something else.
sacred idol
Demeter.
pallid dagger
not the cast
sacred idol
When you're playing a fragile aspect like Nemesis, having CC - and very high damage - is really good, I'd think.
pallid dagger
nemesis is the crit buff. poseidon is the cast buff.
dim rapids
wait i thought we were still talking about poseidon
lmao
on nemesis i always just go artemis primary for more crit
sacred idol
If you don't want to double down on Artemis, especially since the base damage buff on Artemis is scaled like complete trash now...
I'd honestly unironically recommend Demeter for slow, Aphro for weak/charm, both for mountains of damage
If it can buff the Demeter explosions, heck yes.
sacred idol
Otherwise, just stack chill to prevent things from murdering you
...that's what it is
a sword, with chunky damage
that's nemesis.
dusky drum
i mean it isnt that much different from the zag aspect
sacred idol
well that's what nemesis is, a straight up DPS buff
Just saying that having the thiccest base damage (Aphrodite) would also mean the chunkiest death dealing
dusky drum
il take that chonky damage then
sacred idol
Oh, only works on attack... yeah, you can go Aphro for the mega damage
Demeter is just if you want better CC without a legendary.
That, and Execute fits thematically with Nemesis as a legendary if you get it
Double Edge Cruel Thrust
dim rapids
i'm actually gonna experiment on chiron with aphro attack/artemis special
got charged volley
sacred idol
+70% crit chance lmao
dim rapids
gonna see how big crits i can do
dim rapids
also, technically the best scaling is athena with exposed
in my above build i did 4.6k crits with exposed backstab + artemis/aphro duo
literally with just 1 right click
dusky drum
eww, right click
sacred idol
oh that's true, athena has potential
dim rapids
you do know that i'm talking about guan yu firework spear right
sacred idol
shadow slash perhaps
dim rapids
not chiron bow
analog lodge
Dire misfortune REALLY needs a rework, it takes 10 hits with dire misfortune to increase the doom by only 100 damage(which is could be done in just 2 hits without it instead), the fact that it delays the damage makes it even worse.
It is only even viable if you are running the repeated doom boon, even then by the time you have stacked it to a decent number the enemy would already be dead from regular doom damage(besides it would only be 2.5 bonus repeating damage per hit). For this reason, I think it would be better if dire misfortune was a % of the doom instead of a mere 10 points.
sacred idol
Oh
sacred idol
I mean, it's easier to use on GY because that doesn't nerf your range
dim rapids
i still fully charge on GY no matter what anyway most of the time
dusky drum
whenever i do a guan yu i always win the run
and i wonder why it is so good
the run wast even that good
yes i got the good hammers but that was about it
and i was still doing 200+ for one charge
pallid dagger
it's the damage bonus. the base attack and the special are souped up.
charged skewer on basically any spear run will carry you through to styx
but also, guan yu goes out of its way to throw you bones. you'll be coming up on centaur hearts every two rooms.
analog lodge
Artemis melee and special are also rather weak, as when you calculate the crit into their multiplier it becomes one of the smallest average damage increases in the game, without any curse or special effect added. The crit melee and special should have the highest average because damage is supposed to be Artemis' thing, but instead it is waste of a boon.
pallid dagger
artemis on her own is a tradeoff. you get low damage boosts, with a fairly common chance to do massive damage. it all depends on what weapons and hammers you choose to play her with.
pallid dagger
and if that's not your thing, the other half of her build is casting. it's pretty easy to create a chain of cast upgrades for her that slaughter anything in the room.
sacred idol
Agree with doom here, it felt far better before they nerfed the crits
green sable
yeh...
sacred idol
Pressure Points at a high rarity is arguably the best way to use Artemis.
pallid dagger
I'm still confused by how Ares offers no flat damage increases whatsoever beyond...well, the weakest one in the game.
you would think he'd be all over massive damage numbers
sacred idol
It's very powerful in certain contexts, just not the best
analog lodge
I was literally taking Artemis damage value X ave crit mult
With big damage attacks crit is unreliable, being sometimes large dps increases, sometimes being non-existant, so it is best to take the average
pallid dagger
...what math are you using? Criticals always deal minimum 300% damage
sacred idol
By x% of hits, of course
analog lodge
I thought it was 200%, but even with 300% it is rather low
rancid shore
it's +200% not just 200%
fiery shale
that's still super low
sacred idol
Is it me or does Clean Kill suck?
primal pebble
Is it just my imagination or are there way more enemies in standard encounters when doing 32 heat? I have jury summons set to 0%.
sacred idol
If it's not calculated like Heart Rend, 15% to 37% is almost nothing.
also, 10% chance on Attack
That's just... awful
rancid shore
clean kill calculates like heart rend iirc
dim rapids
charged volley with artemis special on chiron is not bad
elfin wagon
I think it's 15% on Artemis Attack
dim rapids
i'm dealing like 240-280 crits
sacred idol
Wiki says 10% at common rarity.
analog lodge
Heroic artemis is melee like an average of 60% extra, which is only slightly more than a common aphrodite melee
elfin wagon
They wanted to increase damage while reducing Crit chance but they reverted iirc
pallid dagger
i hope they don't go through with that, eesh
sacred idol
I mean, it was stronger before, wasn't it?
pallid dagger
i would never pursue critical hit builds in another game, i usually distrust them because of how low the chances are. distrusted artemis in this game til i figured out how often crits actually appear.
sacred idol
At least, either better damage or better chance or both before nerfs, if I remember it right
If anything, it should have a straight buff, because it'll never outdo Aphro attack+maybe Pressure Points on average...
unless you get ungodly amounts of poms and nectar and high rarity.
elfin wagon
Yeap, just checked path notes. Patch 036 they had 10% Crit, 70% attack and path 037 they revert 15% Crit, 43% attack
sacred idol
also, Artemis' status curse is so bad it may as well not exist
rare salmon
@analog lodge I'm not sure I understand your math. Heroic Artemis Attack is +50% base damage, and a 10% chance to do +200% damage, no? That's +90% base damage. Still less than the 125% you get from Aphro, but not the 60% that you were saying.
sacred idol
Marked is... awful
That's Heroic.
Heroic isn't normal
The lower tier ones feel bad
elfin wagon
I think if you're going for crit build, add Braid of Atlas or Jerky on it
dim rapids
marked is decent if your crits are like, 2k
elfin wagon
For each Crit, the 30% becomes 90%
sacred idol
and borderline useless on bosses, so the mark still sucks
also jerky buffs everything...
elfin wagon
And with Hourglass, get multiple of Jerky/Braid
pallid dagger
alright, i got dire misfortune
elfin wagon
But jerky by itself is additive
pallid dagger
let's see how this works on the hydra
rancid shore
mark is also okay on hydra imo
i'd take almost any other art boon but yk it's okay
sacred idol
It just seems to me that Artemis at base, in a vacuum versus the other gods, takes more investment (of pom stacks and rarity) to get results than any other god except Poseidon.
on Hades? You'd have to ignore the summons
otherwise the only targets are skulls
also consumed on a crit :/
dim rapids
my 4.6k crit build above didn't really use that much poms i think
it's more of synergy with all other stronger multipliers
balmy brook
what is the point of fishing?
rancid shore
you get gems and meta currency
sacred idol
I mean you did have Heart Rend and Exposed
dim rapids
yeah
analog lodge
@rare salmon I messed up somewhere, it is 95%, still only poseidon has a lower average
rancid shore
maybe i'm in the minority but i feel like art's okay
i wouldn't complain if they were buffed but i still lke art
dim rapids
instead of stacking artemis
sacred idol
The attack specifically is what I have an issue with though
rancid shore
oh yeah that's weak sauce
sacred idol
ugh, that chance
rancid shore
i agree on that at least
analog lodge
20% would put it at a 140% extra compared to heroic aphrodite 125%
pallid dagger
alright, so i have tested out dire misfortune, and.......................nah, not for me.
sacred idol
that'd be fine imo
because due to the nature of crits, artemis is inconsistent
consistency should be less powerful than spike damage
What's the comparison for Special currently?
pallid dagger
epic-level doom damage at level 6 for 167 damage, on the chiron bow so it stacks seven times, only equaled 214 total doom damage. not nearly enough for my tastes.
dim rapids
i mean if you're talking about crits
the nature of crits by itself is basically pray to RNGesus
sacred idol
Yeah that's the point
Therefore they should be MORE rewarding than a constant, reliable buff
Dire Misfortune does seem underpowered then
Agreed it should be % now
rancid shore
wasn't attack at 15% before? why did they change that
sacred idol
well, attack was APPARENTLY reverted to 15% chance from 10% and more raw damage
analog lodge
Spike damage is nice, but crit builds are allways handled in how they average out when you run calculations. The truth is that you make so many attacks that they average out in the long run anyways.
elfin wagon
Artemis attack is at 15%. Wiki is outdated
rancid shore
oh
sacred idol
@analog lodge Yeah, I know. Just saying that with such low chances at base, making them average out higher than raw damage is good
Because the inconsistency is its own drawback
In the short term, relying on averages isn't always an accurate picture, because this isn't a turn-based RPG or anything - enemies move and attack, and rather fast at higher heats.
Nemesis apparently already gets counterplayed by sheer speed on Forced Overtime.
dim rapids
rip bad boon rng
rare salmon
@analog lodge Got it! I wasn't disagreeing that it was bad, just checking that my math wasn't bad 🙂
Is Artemis used for the Cast build just because her cast seeks?
manic ermine
That is the main draw
manic ermine
Her max damage is slightly lower than some other casts
rare salmon
@elfin wagon I updated the wiki.
elfin wagon
Ah, okay
elfin wagon
Yeah, I checked the TraitData again. Attack should be 15% crit
analog lodge
Artemis is used for Cast build because it helps you get her legendary and exit wounds
Which are the main sources of damage in a cast build
(also if you are going for hunting blades or demeter cast, artemis becomes non-optional)
rare salmon
Got it!
I'd like to try to force a cast build tonight.
The only "Cast" build I've done so far is Dio Cast on Hera bow, which is my current record for highest heat.
analog lodge
She also has a ability that adds extra 50% damage cast projectiles
elfin wagon
Hourglass is good for cast build. Get Braid of Atlas or extra casts.
analog lodge
In other words artemis cast spam is capable of hitting 2169 off of Artemis boons + (hermes or cast bow) alone. Never mind the cast sword aspect, chaos booms, other damage boons and priviaged status/boiling blood.
dim rapids
15 heat run w/ chiron building crit on special
with some synergy it's 500 crit arrows with charged volley
pretty good
analog lodge
@dim rapids Which boons did you use?
dim rapids
didn't take a screenshot but
aphro attack artemis special
athena cast & dash with deflect/exposed
no aid offered
analog lodge
Ah, the normal attack is where the damage is from
dim rapids
no it's not lol
it's from artemis special
artemis special volley is like 500 damage per crit
also had heart rend and the artemis/athena duo
stable onyx
chaos shield is so good that i cant play with other weps now im addicted
dim rapids
i didn't get +4 arrows
i got charged volley for the +300% dmg
what does faster special from hermes do for rail?
does it make it drop faster or reload faster?
chrome geyser
my experience has been reload is faster.
@stable onyx that is me, but with rail. I do notice that I have to switch to shield if I start doing the timer though.
turbid needle
Swift Flourish on the Rail removes almost all downtime after firing Bombard.
Try firing Attack, then Bombard, then switching back to Attack.
There's a slight delay after clicking Special normally.
Also yes, higher rarities does speed up the reload.
At Epic, you can fire a second bomb before the first has landed.
green sable
yeh cool huh
i got cluster rocket in my last run
i took screen shots to prove it to
nimble cypress
I think it speeds up the launch animation, but not the projectile. Fire and forget that much faster.
plucky tusk
what's your favorite "build" so far?
pallid dagger
well, right now, i'm looking specifically at the hera bow.
i know zeus and to a lesser extent poseidon play well, and i know aphrodite plays well
dionysus plays well, but you have to wait a long time for cast recall, and artemis kind of defeats the purpose. demeter doesn't play well, and i don't recall athena playing well either.
silver seal
i love poseidon knockback builds
pallid dagger
poseidon's awesome, people that say he's bad ain't playing him right tbh
plucky tusk
yeah I like the KB stuff too
sacred idol
He is situationally bad and situationally incredible.
His main issues are poor boss DPS and pathetically weak Attack base damage amplifying that.
silver seal
i did a run with blade rift cast that was pretty cool too
pallid dagger
knockback is great for throwing those jumpy idiots in asphodel into lava, and even better for nemean chariots and longspears especially
sacred idol
Wave Pounding is far too low to be useful as additive damage and isn't practical to search for due to the need for Ruptured generally being higher priority...
Poseidon is a great god for mobs.
And a terrible one for bosses.
silver seal
yea
sacred idol
But with two main tweaks (Wave Pounding changed to Multiplicative, like Clean Kill and Heart Rend, and Attack damage raised to match Demeter or Aphrodite) he would generally be a very potent choice.
Well, I'm unsure about Flood Shot.
green sable
Some boons scream TAKE ME..others scream STAY AWAY BAD BAD
sacred idol
But his dash and special are excellent in the right contexts, special has fantastic stats, and Rupture is just... nutty
pallid dagger
anyone else feel like the bow got buffed a lot? i feel like it's charging faster
if so, the gods @ supergiant listened thank u so much
sacred idol
And his loot boons are among the best in the game, naturally
If taken early.
If your first pick is the one that buffs room loot at Epic tier, worth it.
turbid needle
Isn't Poseidon's Special damage 2nd or 3rd lowest?
sacred idol
Eh? No, unless Wiki is wrong
His attack is.
Attack is trash value low. I checked and his special base damage is quite high.
I'm not sure about rarity multipliers, didn't check if those are consistent across gods, but he has second highest special base damage listed on wiki, second lowest attack
Poseidon Chiron special has been said to be scary
dim rapids
man i swear it's so hard to find a good rail build
green sable
thats what ive been screaming for like a week now
ive been given them
i have
its just when I try to make it work it don't lol
pallid dagger
which aspect are you using?
turbid needle
Hestia with any non-Poseidon Attack % boon, Eris with Zeus, Dionysus, or Artemis.
dim rapids
i usually used hestia
turbid needle
Could also really cheese Artemis with Eris and Rocket Bomb.
dim rapids
but i switched to eris
i always build artemis special
and aim for as many rockets as possible
pallid dagger
I like hestia too. I apply Deadly Strike to her and watch the manual reload shot pump out huge numbers.
dim rapids
but that's literally my only source of damage
sacred idol
@turbid needle Why Hestia for rocket crits?
dim rapids
other attacks kinda tickle
plucky tusk
been struggling with the bow, what's a good god/goddess choice for it?
sacred idol
Why not use Cluster Rocket Eris?
dim rapids
hera with fog
pallid dagger
bow is going to struggle by default lol
sacred idol
If you're close you get buff
pallid dagger
hera is the op one, so use it
turbid needle
I was looking at myself or someone else typing out "Hestia" and my brain filled it in.
dim rapids
artemis special + charged volley
turbid needle
Nah, I like Zagreus Aspect Coronacht the most.
green sable
Im gonna have to default to do that
dim rapids
demeter special + 10 chill stacks explosion + +4 volley
green sable
if i wanna win with it
sacred idol
@pallid dagger zagreus bow can 32 heat maxed
dim rapids
that's what i literally did last run lol
sacred idol
It's fine.
pallid dagger
Zag Bow = unfortunate. no. terrible.
Chrion Bow = can be really powerful IF you get the right builds for it; very risky if you don't luck out.
Hera = huge damage numbers, gets through armor, malleable with most any cast.
turbid needle
Deadly Strike gives you 25% crit chance, then you stack Explosive/Power Shot with Twin Shot and Hunter Dash and Dash Attack the world.
Hey Grimmjow, what's your highest Heat clear with the bow?
dim rapids
just play extreme passive
green sable
But finding what i want for it is a pain
dim rapids
play a game of endurance
pallid dagger
i'm going on a 12 heat run right now. i've been leveling all the weapons one by one, so they've all got 11 or 12 heat clears. working my way up to 16 for that second reward.
sacred idol
Check Adam's video. 32 heat zagreus.
pallid dagger
i'll say for all the bow's shortcomings, hammer upgrades can save the day. i try to always have flurry shot, but if i can't, twin shot will suffice.
tidal thorn
Yeah I don't think Zag bow is that bad.
sacred idol
It's just a little uninspiring but it is good.
pallid dagger
i mean, the shield is the best base weapon
sacred idol
Zag rail is usually bad but has some... spicy... synergies on paper
pallid dagger
no other weapon allows you to defend, move, and attack at the same time
shield runs are always super easy for me
sacred idol
Theorycraft wise I have some REALLY nasty builds for Zag rail, RNG and skill willing.
Well yes. But base shield is the worst use of 5 titan blood.
turbid needle
The Rail's spread kills Concentrated Fire for me.
sacred idol
See, Zagreus sword is at least funny.
tidal thorn
Zag rail would be fun with certain hammers.
analog lodge
Zag bow + Aphro attack + explosive arrows = 1k crits
dim rapids
some guy did a 45 heat shield run lmao
sacred idol
It will let you do strange things with dash memes like in discussion
Conc Fire can be taken with Flurry, no?
turbid needle
It can.
pallid dagger
zag rail's increased ammo is just a very easy way to play
if you get flurry fire, you can basically mow down anything without worrying about running low.
turbid needle
But I don't like "This hammer relies on a second hammer" combos since we lost our third hammer in Styx.
sacred idol
Perhaps Demeter with Chill Blast
turbid needle
Just use Spread Fire if you're running Arctic Blast.
sacred idol
Well, Cluster Rocket is a thing, cluster isn't gamebreaking by itself
dim rapids
cluster rocket + artemis special is essentially a free run
sacred idol
Spread Fire won't get you triple the base damage though
It's not gonna be a meta 32 heat
analog lodge
@turbid needle Wait, there used to be 3 hammers per run? That sounds busted
sacred idol
It's just a really funny way to build
dim rapids
cluster rocket + artemis special is basically explosive shotgun
sacred idol
Off meta minigun. Take flurry first and conc when the dps boost matters, and it's fine
Extra memes: Chaos attack boons
dim rapids
it feels bad when i can only deal 2k crits with hazard bomb
when my GY run just did 4.6k earlier
turbid needle
Anyone telling me that Tidal Dash is good is getting a boot to the head. Yes, let me just hurry up those Spreaders on their way to camping out over lava.
pallid dagger
@here has anyone tried knockback on the furies? i swear it's pushing alecto back
turbid needle
Just... Nuke the whole god. Take the entire Olympian and throw him into the trash.
pallid dagger
also Tidal Dash is good 💀
second only to athena dash, really. just nice to not have to worry about those damn flamewheels when sprinting around.
analog lodge
Tidal dash is good.... for privilaged status, if you sell the other boon
turbid needle
All 3 inches that it works on bosses?
sacred idol
Hey, I've wall slammed Meg before
Just kite them near the wall in the first place. 4head
dim rapids
slamming meg Kreygasm
pallid dagger
if i can knockback bosses....
that means i can sea storm 'em ☠️ ☠️ ☠️
analog lodge
Tidal dash is also good if you are going dash attack spam+sea storm
dim rapids
also athena dash is literally the best dash
sacred idol
It does wreck 'em if you can actually meme on them that way
timber temple
Is it just me or is there no way to stagger Satyrs?
dim rapids
welp time to yolo 16 heat chiron run
pallid dagger
you can stunlock them but god help you if you let up for half a second cuz they auto-attack after
@ supergiant nerf those satyrs i will pay money
sacred idol
@timber temple Someone claimed satyrs fire their shots even after recovering from being hit. Is this what you're talking about? It should be F10'd
timber temple
That barrage of poison darts
sacred idol
I think that's a bug.
dim rapids
wall slamming satyrs is guaranteed stunlock
sacred idol
There is no way an enemy SHOULD resume the previous attack after hitstun
dim rapids
fog at no overtime is also stunlock
sacred idol
That's broken
turbid needle
I'm okay with ranged poison application, but Satyrs take it too far.
timber temple
No overtime?
sacred idol
Movespeed
analog lodge
Btw, has anyone tried sea storm + poseidon attack + zag rail + flurry? I want to know how OP it is, because I have not yet
turbid needle
It's bad because knockback takes them out or range after like two hits.
sacred idol
Corner them and it's not out of range anymore 4head
That's the point of poseidon spam. Cornered enemies don't get yote out of range.
turbid needle
Cool, lemme just corner this Greatshield, not inflict any damage while I'm at it, while his two buddies and three Longspears gank me from behind.
dim rapids
rip, when is chaos gonna give me defiance
timber temple
Would anyone else agree that the rats (small ones) are just too damn fast?
turbid needle
Sounds really slow unless you're in Tartarus or Styx.
turbid needle
Without Explosive Fire Rail shots only hit one enemy.
sacred idol
Also dash attack sounds like it works
turbid needle
I'm okay with small rats because they only have 1 HP.
pallid dagger
make for a huge pain in the neck when trying to use the bow or any dash attacks
turbid needle
They could deal a little less damage, but other wise they're fine.
Just mash Special, without marking if you're Chiron.
analog lodge
So what you are saying is that rail sea storm is TOO fast an attack?
turbid needle
No.
I'm saying I hit one or two shots and then they're out or range so I'm firing into thin air like an idiot.
An idiot that took Poseidon, because he's bad.
timber temple
You know, i just hate everything about Styx in general lol
turbid needle
Fix Satyrs and Styx is a 10/10 final biome.
timber temple
Satyrs/rats/Poison/Snake Stones
turbid needle
I suppose.
sacred idol
@analog lodge It'll work if you do it right.
turbid needle
But I don't think one-offs are automatically a bad thing in a game.
sacred idol
Also my hate is reserved for styx side room troves
And no-cover rooms
The two without any obstacles
Screw that
turbid needle
No no no.
Not even 500 clears, and the vast majority of those were before the Fated List was introduced.
I also don't shoot for Chaos terribly frequently.
dim rapids
ah
ok... ares didn't offer me a single doom option 2 times in a row now
feelsbadman
turbid needle
Yeah you need to see daddy Chaos a couple of times before the boon even shows up
And that is IF it decides to show up
dim rapids
i've seen him a crap ton of times
hardy crow
Honestly I go to Chaos almost any time I see them
And it still took about 40 hours to see it
dim rapids
you mean 40 hours of playtime?
hardy crow
Yes
dim rapids
think i'm like 80 hours in
wait wtf
i got scammed
i thought it would give an extra death defiance
it just did nothing
and the boon disappeared
is that intentional?
turbid needle
Did you complete the curse?
dim rapids
oh
ah now i see it
but it doesn't show up in my boons list
it does show a tiny eye though
turbid needle
Did you ever see the screenshot of the five different DDs?
full flame
yeah, doesn't have a boon slot icon, just the extra death defy
dim rapids
i do know the different DD icons
skelly, titan blood, zag, athena, chaos
titan blood is basically any form of bought DD or refilled DD
never saw the screenshot though lol
i swear hydra room on EM is cancerous as heck for KB&M
dim rapids
not sure, i feel that some of the dashes bring me straight into lava on keyboard due to 8 directional dashing
turbid needle
Ooh, yeah.
dim rapids
whereas on controller you'd probably be able to make those dashes
turbid needle
I've experienced that too.
dim rapids
half of the time in EM hydra is basically me going "oof ouch lava"
turbid needle
I wish the islands were a little bigger, more of a "Hey, be careful when you're navigating," and less of a "Hope you've got 14 dashes!"
The way the arena is set up, it’s not THAT bad, but yeah I can see Gamepad being better for that fight
dim rapids
i guess i just wished it was slightly more forgiving in terms of layout for KB&M
meanwhile i've gotten than 4 times in a row not bad
turbid needle
So long as you don’t run deadline LOL
If you're running EM 2, Sure Footing (Athena, reduces trap damage) fires up the tier list.
^
turbid needle
EM 3 is free, EM2 is the bad one
Also skelly gang rise up
Like hell buffed Heroes are free.
Compared to Hydra, sure as heck is
I'd have to try a 5 Heat run agin to make that judgement call.
dim rapids
i've always been running EM3 since heat 5
it's essentially free heat as long as your build by elysum isn't too garbage
turbid needle
^ If you get to that point, You likely aren’t making it past Styx regardless
If your build sucks that is
turbid needle
Satyrs would like to know your location
dim rapids
also i rather deal with rats and satyrs than the cat chariots
turbid needle
I swear I pick the broken spearpoint for them alone
And agreed for the chariots
If I use Sword
dim rapids
satyrs are easy to deal with if you have athena dash
turbid needle
And when you don’t and run forced overtime, expect to be poisoned A LOT
At the very ´least they don’t take a million years to kill
Since Flamechariots' HP was nerfed the two worst enemies in Elysium are Longspears and Nemean Chariots.
turbid needle
Don’t forget the shieldbearers
sacred idol
Shields are just annoying and horrible for troves
They're not brutally deadly like offscreen lolspears
turbid needle
Sure
Fair enough
Since standard shields were nerfed and their wind-up for their spin made a little longer and more apparent, I think Greatshields are fine.
But Longspears with their HP pool to match, superior damage to anything but an Elite Greatshield full spin attack, and incredible range and mobility are a miniboss caliber enemy that can spawn in every chamber.
sacred idol
Greatshields aren't fine still, solely because their block angle is excessive
turbid needle
They mostly slow down the gameplay to an halt that makes them annoying more than anything
dim rapids
not sure why but my past few runs have been terrible in the boon department
so many blue rooms
also longspears >>>>>>> greatshields by a long shot
you can just dash through greatshields most of the time for a free kill
also fog > shields
turbid needle
I wouldn't go so far as to say "free", but they have a good feel to them now.
I wasn’t disagreeing with the longspear thing lol
Throwing three Fogs down in one spot, then getting ganked by an Elite Chariot that sandwiches you between the wall for 100+ damage in 3 hits.
^
Chariots slow gameplay more than Greatshields.
dim rapids
well chariots are another problem
turbid needle
Alone they are whatever, throw in other enemies tho ...
They force you to go on the defensive, you can maneuver so much more easily around Greatshields.
And chariots do as well, except they actually hurt more often
Especially Super Elite Chariots.
sacred idol
Greatshields only need their block angle reduced a bit but they're 90% fine.
Chariots have the same problem as Asterius
They turn. Too. Damn. Fast.
dim rapids
armoured chariots are big oof
turbid needle
Super Elite Chariots, with ridiculous armor pool, faster start-up and downtime between charges, and charges that hit like 6 times.
sacred idol
Look. Charges really should not be able to turn more than 180 degrees
turbid needle
👏 MAKE 👏 THEM 👏 HIT 👏 ONCE 👏
sacred idol
That's the main thing
turbid needle
Didn’t they make the chariot charge not multi-hit anymore
And then changed it back.
What
If everything that charged got immediately stuck on walls like Asterius did I would be fine with Chariots as-is.
Did I miss a patch or what
I have no idea.
Just one day it was reverted. Haven't played Hades in a few days, but last week I got between a spot that was juuust big enough that I couldn't dash across it (or just one of the bad pieces of terrain that won't let you traverse it, wish that was either way more obvious or all the levels got that fixed) and he dinged me 3 times for 28 damage.
Ouch
Just wiggling back and forth and suddenly I was out of almost 100 HP.
rain kayak
Is it intended that the Guan Yu spin attack goes over walls and obstacles? Afaik it's the only attack in the game that does that. Other AoE attacks usually stop at walls
rain kayak
Yeah, but why is it the only weapon to do that? Isn't that a bit inconsistent?
dim rapids
so uh
hades just had some weird memory leak and it crashed...?
welp, rip my chaos defiance fated list
rain kayak
Ouch!
turbid needle
"C'mon, Redblood, let's see you kill me again."
https://gyazo.com/177aa8f555cca3d02b3041bd3504a2bc
"Okay."
opal bay
turbid needle
I picked up Cold Fusion.
EZ privileged status right there
That’s the boon in a nutshell
stiff seal
Should I be worried, that I cannot help Orpheus with his quest? I thought that his quest item is supposed to appear automatically in House Contractor's shop, but I do not see it. I have already helped Sisyphos and Medusa.
naive tusk
What quest?
sacred folio
I don't think this game has any kind of softlock. No worries.
fallow niche
@turbid needle 32 heat is now down to sub-14
turbid needle
👀
fallow niche
The Taiwanese guy is an absolute monster
turbid needle
Eris rocket clusters and Poseidon, still?
turbid needle
What.
fallow niche
Yeah this is what he used to take the record last update too
He's an absolute monster on the rail
Nothing ever really hits him
At this point with like 5 people gunning for the WR on 32 heat all the time I have no clue what weapon will end up being the final say hahaha
But this latest leap is huge
It went from like just over 15 mins to sub-14
kind cloud
"Taiwanese guy"
Link?
fallow niche
He hasn't uploaded this run yet, but I can grab another one of his
kind cloud
Thanks
granite vine
man I can't fathom a 0-heat clear at under 20 minutes, yet here go the speedrunners
kind cloud
Just want to see his play style
turbid needle
If it's Hestia rail, I could see it
kind cloud
Thanks @fallow niche.
fallow niche
Yeah
I currently have 3rd place on the leaderboard but I used to struggle with getting below 20 too so don't feel like you can't get this fast too eventually 
@granite vine
granite vine
y i k e s
turbid needle
It takes time, but eventually muscle memory kicks in and makes you dodge stuff you wouldn't think about
granite vine
and I thought I was doing good because I managed a 35 min once TvT
turbid needle
Depending on the heat, that could be decent
granite vine
I'm not fully convinced this video isn't sped up
turbid needle
In-game timer
tidal thorn
If you take Twin Shot with Hera, do you shoot two Casts?
abstract pilot
plus, once you get good at dodging things, then you start being able to hits on purpose to do damage even faster 🙂
scarlet kindle
im pretty sure twin shot is only one cast, since ive seen triple shot hera and it's only one cast
granite vine
*immediately takes 3 boss spins to the face
fallow niche
Lmao
granite vine
point blank
fallow niche
Yeah I think when you choose Overtime Hades just smacks you around and you just have to out DPS him
HE JUST UPLOADED IT
@kind cloud @turbid needle
kind cloud
Thanks.
fallow niche
turbid needle
Watching it now.
kind cloud
This is gonna take some work. I don't know the icons well enough to know what he's picking.
granite vine
pause and look for the numbers?
fallow niche
I recognize the symbols, his first boon is artemis attack
Oh yeah they show on the left side too
turbid needle
He takes Deadly Strike, Cluster Bomb, and Hunter Dash.
fallow niche
Yeah cluster bomb is incredible
kind cloud
Hold up
fallow niche
I think Hestia beats out Eris because it clears tartarus faster
kind cloud
How is he doing 617 damage so quickly?
turbid needle
Crits with Hestia.
fallow niche
Crit with hestia attack
kind cloud
F me
fallow niche
Hestia Rail is hilarious with artemis crit
kind cloud
The one weapon I have done zero experimenting with.
Guess I know what I'll be doing later tonight.
turbid needle
See, Hestia is why lightning bolts can't scale off trigger damage.
fallow niche
Hahahaha
granite vine
bzzt
turbid needle
Blood and darkness, he got a Chaotic Lunge.
fallow niche
turbid needle
He just backstabbed Tisiphone for 1300 damage.
This is what is known as an optimal build.
He doesn't even have the Lunge boon yet.
kind cloud
LULZ at the backstab damage
turbid needle
Oh hell, you're right.
fallow niche
This guy wasn't even originally a speedrunner until I told him to submit his runs
He's just a very good player
fallow niche
You can manipulate the RNG in-game to get the desired outcome in the next rooms @kind cloud
You can map out like the first half of tartarus reliably and get the boons/hammers/enemies you want
granite vine
how does that work?
fallow niche
It takes a while though, but it will let you get faster times with runs
kind cloud
With the Artemis Poseidon sword
kind cloud
Every room I advanced I would "give up" and then do it over again
kind cloud
I wanted to create a mental permutation map just to chart it out
turbid needle
If he gets Heart Rend or Exposed I'm gonna freak.
kind cloud
INCOMING
granite vine
that's basically just savescumming right?
fallow niche
Sort of
turbid needle
Kinda-sorta-not-really.
granite vine
and like taking baby steps each time to reroll
turbid needle
You don't savescum the actual full run.
fallow niche
Its far more complicated and involves a ton of planning
And yeah you can't predict how many Styx rooms you'll ever end up needing to do
So most of us just play through the whole run after tartarus if tartarus is good hoping to get a good time
And right now there is only one person who can manipulate the entirety of Tartarus, he's kind of the giant brain behind manipulation to begin with
granite vine
but it still has to be once-per-room, more or less? you can't, like, see two doors in Tartarus room 5 and determine that you'll meet Asterius later
fallow niche
Yes
It can basically be explained that the core variable that determines what you see in a run is changed by any action you do, so it cascades into a butterfly effect if you accidentally destroy one pot or pillar in a room until you eventually can no longer predict anything @granite vine
This is why its basically impossible for most of us to both have a fast run and map out the entirety of Tartarus
turbid needle
... It’s THAT finnicky ? Wow
turbid needle
He skipped Cluster Rockets for Piercing Fire and then got a 48% Chaotic Strike.
His damage is stacking right now.
fallow niche
Its basically like trying to predict the weather
turbid needle
O.o
turbid needle
2000 damage crit.
fallow niche
WEW
turbid needle
Really consistently 2k damage, too.
granite vine
these mobs getting yeeted
turbid needle
I'm not sure those are even backstabs.
fallow niche
He also just said in the discord he agrees with me that Artemis cast Poseidon Sword is probably the best 32 heat weapon for speedrunning too, but that relies on you not dying 
turbid needle
Yeah, he's deleting Exalted shields and then health bars in single shots.
On 32 Heat.
turbid needle
Oh, wait, what?
granite vine
I can't even hit those 90% of the time
turbid needle
Right, I know Jury Summons is the worst, but he's doesn't have any extra health?
fallow niche
100% lasting consequences.
turbid needle
No healing?
fallow niche
This dude is an absolute legend
turbid needle
Makes sense if you go for no hit
fallow niche
Yeah
turbid needle
Oh, wow, he's the best in the world.
But still, damn
Sorry, everyone else, he's our Go1.
fallow niche
His first run I saw on youtube that I told him to submit for the leaderboard I noticed he almost never got hit
On the rail
turbid needle
I swear I would have to learn his ways, my sword play could benefit from that
He's lost *one * Defiance by the friggin' Heroes.
fallow niche
Sword is really hard to never get hit with, even with artemis cast because you have to special them out every now and then
fallow niche
Yeah haha
turbid needle
Skelly quotes Predator!
fallow niche
Oh he does?
turbid needle
"Come on, kill me, I'm here!"
turbid needle
Should have Darren redo that line in Arnold's accent.
What's blowing my mind the most about this run is that he's not being 100% efficient with his time.
Every so often he'll run around a chamber and break pots or something.
Okay, I know Satyrs are a problem because he keeps getting poisoned by them. 
turbid needle
Told you all, forced overtime satyrs are the devil
turbid needle
^
kind cloud
heh
fallow niche
Hahahaha
turbid needle
LOL
fallow niche
That's more than me!
turbid needle
He's streaking and setting world records.
fallow niche
I told you, this guy is just really good!
turbid needle
And I thought my 36 was good heck
fallow niche
He's not an efficient speedrunner, he's just a God (heh) at the game
solid cairn
has anyone done 32 heat with hades spear
fallow niche
I have
turbid needle
🤔
solid cairn
of course you have
solid cairn
I thought you didn't do zagreus sword
turbid needle
Not surprising LOL
fallow niche
Flurry Jab on Hades aspect is what got me there for that one @solid cairn
solid cairn
now do it blindfolded
granite vine
wait I thought Hades aspect was the one with... the boosted spin attack...?
turbid needle
It is
turbid needle
You spin attack, your damage gets boosted
granite vine
and then... flurry jab... deletes it......???
tidal thorn
You might not be able to use Flurry Jab with Hades aspect.
turbid needle
You still get some hits in after a spin, it’s a duration not a number of hits
And yeah spin is not the most reliable thing
fallow niche
@tidal thorn You're thinking of Guan Yu
@turbid needle Spin is only good on Guan Yu imo
Its playable on the others but its really awkward especially without the spin hammers
Quick spin especially
turbid needle
Not exactly saying otherwise lol
granite vine
so um
Flurry Jab on Hades Spear means you don't get the Hades effect? right?
solid cairn
hades needs a buff
turbid needle
... oh I am dumb LOL
granite vine
sorry it's nigh 5am and I probably amn't processing
solid cairn
give it a homing skull for special
fallow niche
Hades doesn't need a buff, it needs to be changed entirely
turbid needle
But yeah ignoring spin is a legit strat
tidal thorn
I didn't know if it was or not for Hades too since that's its thing. @fallow niche
solid cairn
give it a move from dad himself