I think it's 400% - X%. I think I got the -trap damage boon before, and it didn't seem very exciting when I had heightened security
#h1-builds-and-combat
hollow sorrel
it's the way it should work though. Being able to negate that entire punishment with a lucky boon, seems not good
light aspen
hey guys is it intentional for festive fog with ice wine to not have animation when cast?
dim rapids
yes
that's why ice wine is so good
i live by it
and use it in like 70% of the runs
naive tusk
Besides, the name is good ❄️🍷
hollow sorrel
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/527330532259004419/676099977700835338/414-75060442-57180607_ALT10.png?width=449&height=585 And it's like a real thing in Canada. I wish it wasn't so expensive though
sacred idol
@hollow sorrel Making the boon useless is better? I'd have to disagree...
sacred idol
That heat for 1 heat just completely negates the boon if it's 400 - 75
hollow sorrel
I mean like, I still get offered Demeter's "increase healing" boon, even when I'm on -100% healing, and I still can't heal after I take that boon
dim rapids
cause 999999% * 0% = 0%
hollow sorrel
except for special cases, like guan-yu healing
sacred idol
"This other thing sucks" doesn't really act as a point in favor of another thing that objectively, by itself, sucks
dim rapids
-100% healing is basically you have to use guan yu
that, or you totally don't get hit
naive tusk
@dim rapids I just got Disclipe of Hermes 😮
hollow sorrel
I was kind of hoping -100% (punishment) + 33% (demeter boon) would equal -67% healing
dim rapids
disciple of hermes is pretty much the most common title
just get all 3 hermes boons i think?
naive tusk
Oh, I thought you didn’t know about those titles 😅
sacred idol
Well yeah, I feel like, again, Pact shouldn't entirely disable 99% of healing mechanics
dim rapids
nah, just that i never see it for other gods
then again i took like, 6 athena boons this run
hermes is easy since it's usually guaranteed at 3?
not sure whether you need his legendary but i don't think so
dim rapids
40% overtime on shield is pretty fun lmao
man not being able to upload pics of runs directly is a shame
dim rapids
could do dio aphro again
not sure though
any other combos?
i used to do poseidon special with zeus duo but apparently people said it's bugged
naive tusk
Uh... no idea since Chiron is all about the special. I don’t think Support Fire triggers for every arrow shot, and not sure if critical on special would be good
dim rapids
support fire doesn't
poseidon zeus duo works though
there's a crap ton of lightning
but people say that not all arrows proc it because it's too fast
sacred idol
Demeter honestly sounds like a good time
chill blast+4 shot hammer = explosion literally three times per basic attack
naive tusk
Then I guess Aphro-Dio-Demeter worka for Chiron
sacred idol
Crit on special is a fine choice
but the low base damage means you NEED poms
Artemis just feels absurdly pom dependent for me
sacred idol
I don't want some kinda huge buff, they don't need to do aphro damage, but... eesh, not having frickin' 25%/15% crit
at what, rare rank?
nimble cypress
the one thing is that it did restrict my choices for casts a lot. Most of my favorite casts don't stick a bloodstone in enemies, so I would have lost out on boiling blood
but there was no cast that could compare to 50% increased damage on a crit rocket
nimble cypress
like the base attack for exagryph, yea
sacred idol
Chiron
It's amazing with a stack of like 5 poms I'm sure
but base?
at low rarity?
you might as well just give up
hollow sorrel
cast-based build are pom dependant too. Isn't the first pom like a 50% damage increase?
and the 2nd is like 25-30%, or something like that
sacred idol
well, the slow grind up to crit's viability on fast hits is more incremental
takes a lot less to hit minimum viable
Also you don't need pom stacks to make some scary combos like Hunting Blades or Ice Wine/Scintillating good
It helps make them stupendously broken, but you don't have to sink three or four just to feel like it's finally reliable
dim rapids
so apparently sweet surrender buffs thanatos' damage
so he can do 5 digits worth of damage
lmao
sacred idol
rofl what
dim rapids
yep
he did 11k
idk why i keep meeting than on chiron bow
i can never win
why doesn't than show up when i'm using shield 😦
sacred idol
🥚 oeuf
dim rapids
well my dio run didn't work out
no special
went aphro special + legendary charm lmao
dim rapids
well yeah, it's one of the best weps
stable onyx
really like shield and rifle
which rifle aspect considered good
i havent tried 3rd one
2nd one seems good
sacred idol
Hestia good for single shot damage, Eris very versatile
Eris buff works on everything
and I mean everything
buffs stuff that nothing else buffs
solid cairn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/676126591436324864/unknown.png super op guan yu run
sacred idol
big PP
solid cairn
hestia
sacred idol
that depends.
Hestia needs some workarounds to the blue shields, but scales massively with the right damage setups. But is a lot more... APM intensive.
Eris is simpler, more versatile, and eats those shields a lot easier... but doesn't hit the extreme highs of Hestia.
dim rapids
lmao perma charm on bosses is so good
solid cairn
what do you guys think is the easiest pact for 16 heat
oblique tusk
once you get the hang of it, bosses+time is pretty easy
dim rapids
on what weapon?
oblique tusk
and that's, what, 12 heat?
sacred idol
eehhh
solid cairn
guan yu
dim rapids
unless you get lucky with hera
sacred folio
First level of Tight Deadline. 9 minutes is plentiful
dim rapids
i go 40% overtime on shield
sacred idol
yeah just take one, lmao
solid cairn
I may do less food healing because guan yu doesn't need it
dim rapids
you can go max no healing on guan yu
dim rapids
that's 4 free heat and you still heal from your attack
solid cairn
sisyphus doesn't heal with that right
dim rapids
nope
no heal
if -100%
only can heal from guan yu
but you're using guan yu anyway so
solid cairn
in that case idk whether to go rib or shady
dim rapids
personally if i'm using guan yu i'll probably go with meg
if -100% healing
if not, bouldy for resources
holy crap
i've not been offered a single aid in this run
oblique tusk
i always go for shady just because i so often find myself like 3 gold short of something
dim rapids
personally maxed convenience fee is free 2 heat
in most of my runs so far i rarely shop other than for erebus (darkness) and for diamonds/titan blood
although in runs with no convenience fee i tend to clear out styx shop at the end
jade cairn
how does budget cuts work?
dim rapids
you can only put darkness into your mirror upgrades up to the cap specified
oh wow
first run with 0 aid
feelsbad
perma charm aphrodite on chiron works fine
sacred idol
Anyone know if Concentrated Fire hammer affects the damage of procs?
+1 damage per shot uninterrupted, but is that only base damage?
Not sure how it'd really be used/what boons it would synergize with
lilac zealot
Does titan blood ever become refundable? I split my spending across multiple categories and only realized afterwards only one category can be selected at a time.
sacred idol
No
solid cairn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/676136832877985793/unknown.png what a run dude
the luck
quick spin and massive spin 2 times in a row
lilac zealot
whelp time to start a new save file then
solid cairn
nah
naive tusk
Don’t give up!
solid cairn
you'll have more than enough
naive tusk
In due time 🙂
sacred idol
If anyone gets Concentrated Fire, please test whether the +1 damage applies to base damage or as a flat value after all boons?
Very important for the hammer, complete make or break factor is the calc
because "my shots can go up to 20+ base damage" is a very different thing from "my shots do 10 more damage sometimes"
oblique tusk
afaik it's a flat value at the end of calcs
chrome geyser
@sacred idol I think i heard it's a bonus +1; but don't take my word for it. It is still a very decent damage upgrade if your build is defensive enough that you can unload around a full stack of ammo, and you have the accuracy+attack speed it makes decent damage.
sacred idol
Still worse than most other options, because it doesn't meaningfully synergize with any boons.
chrome geyser
with 10 shots; it's about bonus 55 damage on top of the 100 damage you would have dealt with the base weapon.
oblique tusk
which is worse than shotgun mod
sacred idol
That's like twice as much or something
chrome geyser
I find it situational; take it like 10% of the time it's offered; if I don't have anything on attack and my build is going more special. But yes, usually other upgrades are much better; but that's on the account that the rail has AMAZING upgrades.
sacred idol
And one chaos attack boon vastly outstrips it
No, it's just underwhelming if so.
Because that alone means it has no scaling, like Piercing Wave.
No scaling with other things that is
oblique tusk
no scaling makes things p bad, yeah
it's why piercing wave is so lackluster
even with the flurry hammer
chrome geyser
Delta chamber is pretty bad, if you ask me. I think that one is the worst. Concentrated fire and piercing fire are tied for the second worst.
sacred idol
Piercing? Nah
It was always regarded as a solid option for Hestia
Why do people call it bad now?
Nerf?
Or is explosive just better now on hestia
chrome geyser
Piercing does not add much tbh; compared to the other upgrades. I think they are all situational.
sacred idol
Does Hestia take the aoe from Explosive and apply the base damage
If so, I can understand
Otherwise, piercing hestia is the classic archetype of a railgun and is quite fine
chrome geyser
I can see that being good. It also is helpful against armor for elysium.
chrome geyser
I'm not saying they are bad; just situational. I like Eris better than hestia
oblique tusk
i hate having to manually reload after every shot tbh
sacred idol
Piercing Shot is arguably the exception and the best one
oblique tusk
it's why i don't run hestia
sacred idol
Because it has armor pen and also punch through
chrome geyser
Oh armor killing is needed if your build needs a few boons to come together still and you don't have enough damage to survive elysium.
sacred idol
Very important distinction. Railgunning is useful for a single shot attack, vastly improves effective DPS vs crowds
Again the deciding factor is whether explosive shot works on hestia shot
chrome geyser
@oblique tusk me too; the burst is already on the special. 150 is pretty good; but my play style is more drop bombs and run while shooting backwards.
sacred idol
If you can get 150 base damage explosive anti-materiel shots, that does make it look poorer by comparison
I do personally like hestia a lot
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/676146409124134942/unknown.png I don't want any of those, help me pick something at least
sacred idol
So I know a fair bit about it, but haven't had explosive in ages
unkempt pagoda
attack, if you're gonna bull rush for the extra shields
novel python
@sacred idol Explosive works on hestia. I've tested it "accidentally"
Isn't that how Chaos aspect works though @unkempt pagoda
unkempt pagoda
yes
chrome geyser
I got a controller but I think mk is superior; at least to my play style. I can see myself using hestia if im on controller though.
Might give it a try
sacred idol
Oh, that's a fair point
thick sedge
I'm surprised how many people play with a controller
I'm so used to keyboard and mouse that it feels impossible to play well with a controller
sacred idol
Although piercing rail still has its place
Specifically the armor shredding on Elysium and better long ranged performance
Explosive hits a cluster, but piercing can kill the other guy across the room
Both sidegrades ish
Just realized that belatedly.
Pierce shot is fine.
It's the only armor damage hammers that are lame
chrome geyser
@thick sedge i tried both; and listened to friends. They find mouse and keyboard difficult because of the non-analog movement. That does not bother me because i can target enemies while running in other directions. Also; your keymap needs to be on point. I still have a lot of difficulty summoning and rearming cause all the buttons I can use are taken.
sacred idol
I've played since Bastion and personally tried both. Played kbm for ages and actually improved significantly on controller.
That's the main reason I use controller
Just personal thing
chrome geyser
What are your favourite weapons @sacred idol ? I want to use controller more; but I think i really can't shine with rail with the controller; which is my favourite weapon (galleon mortar also has been my fav back is bastion)
novel python
I'm pretty sure that I should be able to go on pretty high heat with the shield now
naive tusk
Aaaw 💜
sacred idol
I feel like I'm doing okay with rail on controller
untold quiver
@chrome geyser my highest heats so far are rail sword and shield, you can absolutely do well with rail on controller
novel python
My highest is shield, now going on 13
sacred idol
Mortar gang tho
naive tusk
It’s a matter of preference and getting used to it
sacred idol
I see you're a person of culture as well
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/676149108763000832/unknown.png Would those boons get me the Athena Arte duo too if I aim for Athena's dash?
If I could get both Arte and Ares duos with Athena I'd be the happiest boi
sacred folio
@sacred idol I just modded my game a little bit and did a quick test. Yes: Consecutive Fire increases the base damage and it's multiplicative with other boon's attack buff (verified with Demeter's attack boon)
sacred idol
Artemis dash doesn't contribute
@sacred folio thanks, deleted irrelevant post
That's far stronger than people give it credit for.
Very potent, probably makes Zagreus rail a lot more viable
novel python
@sacred idol As I said, I'm aiming for Athena's dash as deflect and I have pressure points
sacred idol
What's the mechanic? How does it count uninterrupted?
sacred folio
I'm not quite sure how the "uninterrupted" is calculated though.
sacred idol
Oh yeah, misread. But yes, athena dash will do it, unsure about pressure
@novel python wrong image?
sacred folio
Do you want my save file you can start testing yourself?
chrome geyser
I'm still grinding at heat 6 for titan blood at the moment. Once I'm done i believe my preferances will change.
novel python
Nah, just showing the boons I've got
sacred idol
Or are you still on solely doom special rip
sacred idol
Not at this hour @sacred folio
Was hoping you could test it
Does it reset on miss?
chrome geyser
Also; does anyone know if I can retroactively activate hell mode? Like editing the save game somehow?
novel python
As in I've rerolled dio and aphro a lot
Hoping for athena
Sadly, nothing appeared
sacred idol
And does it work with delta or whatever
novel python
Can you even feel the special speed increase from Hermes on shield?
sacred idol
If it resets on delta chamber, then zag is the way to go
novel python
I'm not sure even though I've tried it
sacred idol
Because over 20 base damage is formidable
novel python
@sacred idol Consecutive resets on miss, indeed, but it does not reset on dash or anything else
Used it once
But I'm not using Rail that much
sacred idol
Damn. So you can dash but you need perfect accuracy?
I assumed it reset if you stop firing for any reason.
sacred folio
Well it's like 4am already and I need to sleep.
sacred idol
Same time here lmao
novel python
If you're good with Hestia
it MIGHT work
Thinking about the fact that you want to hit your empowered attacks
And it adds up
sacred idol
Wait, I don't know if reload would preserve it
novel python
Not sure if it resets on reload
novel python
Also, I think it resets on room changing
sacred idol
With crazy payoff if so
If you can stop firing it has actually great QoL lmao
And zag dakka build is viable
novel python
Booo I've only gotten Common Dash
But I think I'll take it
Since it only increases the damage, but the deflect is still there
dim rapids
i want someone to try an athena attack deflect focused build on rail
lmao
in theory if you deflect everything it's a free clear on boss fights
dim rapids
i'm doing 40% overtime clears with shield just via purely deflect builds
inland sail
what weapon have you had the most success with?
ocean coyote
Rail and shield, personally
novel python
@dim rapids 40% overtime is how I do all my runs lmao
inland sail
the bow is the one ive gotten to the 3rd boss with thats the farthest ive gotten
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/676155507001655306/unknown.png I'm close to the dream build, I'm happy
I only need the crit on deflect
tidal thorn
So I just found out beating a heat level doesn't unlock the next heat for all weapons. T_T
Like it did going from 0 to 1 heat.
Welp, now to beat other weapons I guess. Really need titan blood. ._.
novel python
paper timber
Umm, am I supposed to be able to go through the door when an infernal trove is active?
Because in Styx, I was doing a trove and then I was able to go through the door while trying to cure.
trail timber
Yea
paper timber
Bruhhhhh
hollow sorrel
I think it's like that, in case you want to nope out of it. Like, "maybe I'll try the trove," then it spawns 12 shield guys, and then it's like "maybe I'll nope out of the trove"
tidal thorn
So I got Second Wave in Tartarus and it was a fun time from there.
Like fifth room.
trail timber
Someone had fun with explosives.
magic tulip
Just got my first clear in the game with adamant rail (run 30, felt like it took ages). It's definitely my favourite weapon if you get the right boons. Took a screenshot of the build and it didn't work properly :/ was that daedalus upgrade that fires special 5 times, then the athena upgrades for weak status on attack and her as the call. Call makes you impervious so you just stand beside the boss chaining specials hitting them with as many as possible, chilling out 🤣
trail timber
Yea the rail special with crit makes it a very interesting weapon.
magic tulip
For me it was a dionysus boon that inflicted hangover. Didn't have any crit modifiers at all. So just make sure to cycle in the odd attack so they keep the punished status while spamming specials.
Looking forward to doing some other builds though, was the first time I reached zeus with all 3 death defiances in tact and just about clung on. Still got to unlock a couple of things in the mirror of fate and have no companions or any weapons upgraded (do have about 7 titan blood though) so avoiding the pact of punishment for now!
turbid needle
Well lol thanks to an unfortunate Styx layout I have 32 seconds left to beat hades xD
turbid needle
Nope. didn't make it. Hades also went 3x invis and I managed to get him to 50% but still... I had no chance XD
novel python
tidal thorn
k I have a real streak going.
I feel good at the game.
My last 3/4 runs have started with Daed Hammer. fist pump
bold salmon
Chaos shield. Charged Throw, Breaching Rush, or World Smasher?
turbid needle
Either Breaching Rush or World Smasher.
bold salmon
Never tried world smasher but i use bull rush to get around so iffy on it outside of getting the prophecy
Eh ill try it i guess
turbid needle
Heads up, first.
You can't hold your block like you can with regular Bull Rush.
You still have I-frames, but you can't turtle in a corner.
bold salmon
Yea... just noticed it. Should be interest i guess
Oooo, think i might finally get to try the revenge duo
pseudo hamlet
Beat 32 heat with Zagreus bow on Hell mode last night! Now only gun and sword left to go. This should be interesting..
https://i.imgur.com/hTQViZx.jpg
turbid needle
4 minutes, full life and skelly DD x1
Should be possible to beat hades
@pseudo hamlet What's that companion right bottom corner?
pseudo hamlet
Shady? That is the Sisyphus summon. Or are you talking about something else?
silver rover
hey, how ya all beat hades (act 4 boss) using the spear? what combination of boons etc ?
pseudo hamlet
The 32 heat spear run I did the other night was charged skewer hammer + Artemis special, any other Artemis crit boons I could get, and 1-2 athena defensives. Heaving spear specials from across the screen for 2200+ damage
I like crit spear charged skewer throw builds in general
High damage and safe
tidal thorn
When I beat spear earlier, low heat, I had Flurry Strike and Extended Jab.
pseudo hamlet
Those are fun as well. It attacks fast so on-hit things like Zeus are good there as well
tidal thorn
Boons were largly Demi and Athena.
pseudo hamlet
Were you able to get exposed for privileged status or got it from somewhere else? Or not at all for that run
tidal thorn
I got Exposed.
tidal thorn
I actually did a Rail run earlier with no Priv. lol
pseudo hamlet
What hammers did you end up using?
tidal thorn
Easily most of the run eithout it.
I had triple bomb and slow special.
But I got the slow special in Styx.
pseudo hamlet
The slow is so awesome
tidal thorn
So I didnt have a second debuff untill then.
pseudo hamlet
Gotcha. I've only had one run where I had triple + slow and it was a ton of fun
I had a run with rocket+slow as well which was kind of odd
The slow seemed to apply after the explosion instead of on travel since there was no circle
tidal thorn
I had Triple Rocket earlier and that run was a lil too fun.
pseudo hamlet
I was surprised they weren't explusive
I always have fun with rail, even with 'bad' builds. There's just something about lobbing triple mortars or shooting rockets that is extra fun in this game 😛
Probably because it is sort of out of theme with the rest
tidal thorn
Rail has a lot of fun Daed Hammers.
pseudo hamlet
Yeah
lime estuary
I just posted some feedback about how I’d like to see the Pact of Punishment improve in the main feedback channel, but I had a few other ideas that I didn’t want to bloat my main post with
Some potential new Conditions I’d like to spitball:
-Enemies spawn Numbskulls on death
-Enemy attacks cause slow or some other debuff
-Enemies regen a percentage of health when not taking damage (like in fighting games)
-Amount of rooms you can choose from are reduced to one
-Bloodstones take longer to drop
What do you think?
brisk cove
thats a really interesting idea
i actually like your conditions better than the ones out right now, these give a different kind of challenge than just the game being statistically harder
lime estuary
Thank you 
I got the ideas for some of these from Bastion’s Shrine and Transistor’s Limiters
pseudo hamlet
@lime estuary Enemies spawn fish on death?
pseudo hamlet
Did you mean Numbskulls or something else or actually fish?
pseudo hamlet
No worries, that's what I assumed 
No idea lol, all good
I didn't mean knuckleheads ... I meant knuckleheads!
lime estuary
I think I just like the name Knucklehead better
brisk cove
yeah same, they have the same meaning almost
pseudo hamlet
Yeah, and both make sense for a skull type enemy I think
brisk cove
just as a joke but what if there's was a heat condition that makes just fishing extremely difficult
pseudo hamlet
'Curse of the Gorgon' - Each time an enemy dies it fires a petrification stone at Zagreus.
Of course that would make the sword even more precarious for high heats
Well, melee sword anyway
lime estuary
That’s a good one
karmic ginkgo
turbid needle
beat hades with unupgraded spear of achilles, that's a weird weapon tbh.
1 DD tho
Requires avery specific playstyle, wasn;t used to spears anyways, was my first completed spear run
pseudo hamlet
If you want to play a ridiculous run use Achilles spear + chain skewer ... you never know where you'll end up! lol
turbid needle
hehe
I figured
I think aspect of zagreus is pretty good for the style I used
not sure why I went with achilles
Oh yeah it was the last weapon unlock I think
pseudo hamlet
Yeah, Achilles aspect is fun but really dangerous. Definitely a high risk high reward sort of style for the most part
I should use it more. I think I've only done 3-4 runs with it
mellow quest
i'd use it more if the bonus damaged lasted a little longer
turbid needle
more difficult than shield / poseidon aspect sword
mellow quest
it's awkwardly short
pseudo hamlet
It is a bit short. What is the timer on it compared to Hades aspect? Hades aspect feels like it lasts much longer but may be my imagination
turbid needle
Im gonna practice some guitar before heading to bed. It's late here. See you guys tommorow!
hollow sorrel
I think Achilles lasts for two attacks (or specials, or casts). It's not time based
tidal thorn
The worst thing about Achilles is you can't get Explosive.
solid cairn
Guan yu best spear no bias
tidal thorn
Is World Splitter and alright upgrade?
solid cairn
More than alright
pseudo hamlet
World Splitter is an awesome damage upgrade, but it depends on the rest of the build a bit. If you are doing on-hit with Zeus or such, it can be a detriment. However, it increases your hit damage by 4.5 times (base is 20, upgrade is 90). So I think as long as you aren't using an on-hit build it is an awesome take
That higher base hit also makes crit even more attractive
sand glade
pop into this channel and I see someone with a username that reminds me that Adam Conover is a gamer. Lmao
pseudo hamlet
I wish they had named that show something else lol. I've used this name on Justintv and twitch since 2010, 5 years before that show existed. But so many people come to my channel and ask if I got my name form there 😛 Maybe it is a blessing in disguise though and it makes then click 
sand glade
understandable
oblique tusk
what show are you talking about?
pseudo hamlet
Not quite as bad as people that end up having the same name as murderers are hated public figures or such. I remember reading about that older guy named Justin Beiber
@oblique tusk Adam Ruins Everything
oblique tusk
ah
also, your name reminds me of Velveteen vs Everything
which i still need to track down the books for
pseudo hamlet
Cool, had never heard that one
When I hear Velveteen it just reminds me of the rabbit books
oblique tusk
Velveteen vs Everything is about a superhero with a rabbit motif
so they're rabbit books, too :p
pseudo hamlet
Gotcha, that makes sense
oblique tusk
http://seananmcguire.com/velhome.php is where you can read some of the short stories
but neither of the other collections are on amazon
except as an audiobook for one, which i don't read
and as a $60 secondhand hardcover for the other one
so, blegh
pseudo hamlet
oblique tusk
some of the content is a bit goofy, but mostly it has a relatively serious tone
pallid dagger
according to the wiki (And if the pattern continues), the new main weapon will need 51 total titan bloods for a full unlock
[me looking at my measly 10 titan bloods]
pseudo hamlet
GOod to know...I guess I should start saving also O_O
thick sedge
any clue as to what the new weapon might be?
trail timber
Pair of Glocks
sacred idol
Aspect of glock lmao
gloomy vine
I'd imagine it would have to be something that could link to another God as everything is aspects of gods. I was thinking maybe a staff of asclepius
trail timber
Inb4 the immovable weights get transported into the courtyard
sacred idol
I've been suggesting Staff of Aesculapius with a healing mechanic since before Long Winter.
Lul
Also Aspect of Hecate
gloomy vine
special could shoot out snakes 😄
sacred idol
It was said that Supergiant considered at one point making Zagreus float while using gun
So
Have him float while using staff, making it the one true fire while moving weapon in the game
And its attack pattern? Bullet hell nonsense like the witch attacks, low damage per shot but high saturation, and a charge that's like the cluster of orbs in Elysium
Profit
Snakes? No, one large snek
Two sneks is Hermes.
The staff of Aesculapius has one snek.
trail timber
@sacred idol so basically ancient glock.
With extended mag.
powered by nobody knows how.
Chaos hires you as their agent.
sand glade
While I never got into the original anime Devil May Cry, I kinda liked parts of DmC... Obviously not all of it, but parts of it.
last nacelle
Bastion Aspect
Continuous firing charges up a power shot that is released when you stop firing.
lime estuary
@opaque merlin very well said over in #hades-feedback
sacred idol
Peter sums it up perfectly yee
@last nacelle Aspect of the Kid that turns the rail into the army carbine, you mean :^)
mild crag
idk it makes sense to me that to make the game more difficult it should give you less options
it's all a measure of skill, working with less -- besides no choice
that's just a measure of luck
idk how to fix no choice besides remove it
crystal geyser
Which build or Duo Boon is good for Guan Yu? seccond time i'm goona try that weapon
pseudo hamlet
@crystal geyser you can go more spin oriented with Athena attack and be very safe, but the build I used for 32 heat hell mode win with Guan Yu basically just used Artemis crit with charged skewer hammer. Very safe long distance build that I was hitting for 2200 damage pre throw with.
Charged skewer quan yu is crazy high damage. We were seeing 1400+ hits in tartarus
And unlike the charged special on the bow, the special on guan yu still goes far even if you tap special instead of holding to full increase damage amount
hollow sorrel
I'd be much more ok with no choice, if it still guaranteed that you'll get a attack/special/dash/cast option early enough to actually help in high heat runs. Like, maybe I'm playing chiron, and no choice made me stuck with Dio on attack, and Poseidon on special. It's certainly not what I'd prefer, but at least it's something. But when we're already starved for attack and special boons on some runs, no choice means we might be starved for attack and special boons more often, and possibly for longer times
opaque merlin
My feeling is that playing a game is like a relationship. As you get further into it, you discover more, get access to more, etc. Imagine if after a year together, your partner was like, "Okay, cool -- but if you really want to take this relationship to the next level, no more using vowels."
lament coral
dude, you could end the run without an attack/special/cast without no choice
opaque merlin
There's a world of difference, from a game design standpoint, between No Choice as it is now ("you have fewer options") and something that introduces consequences for making those choices
last nacelle
I had an idea. No Choice should be replaced with a different punishment that replaces random options with chaos boons.
opaque merlin
Like, say, a Pact that punishes you for choosing the 3rd option by granting one of the other two to subsequent foes or bosses
lament coral
1/2/3 boons have a random curse on em
last nacelle
No Choice 3 turns every god into Chaos.
lament coral
from the same pool as Chaos
makes the run challenging but not impossible
you want that special? No gold for 3 rooms for you!
lament coral
just restrict it to 3 rooms max, so no 4-5 room long curses
opaque merlin
Scale with rarity, maybe? 1 room for normal, 2 for rare, 3 for epic, 4 for heroic
lament coral
sure, why not
jagged canopy
Is aphro special with ares attack with their duo on chaos shield the strongest chaos shield combo?
opaque merlin
Aphro attack + Dio special is also strong, with the extra shields
hollow sorrel
yes; I still remember the chiron game, where I didn't get a special attack until the 3rd biome miniboss (and it was Poseidon). That game was like 58 minutes total, which is much longer than my games usually take
and I didn't have no choice in that game
lament coral
yeah, that's basically how my bad games go
if I don't die outright, the run takes nigh an hour
opaque merlin
I had like a 3-heat game yesterday where I got to the hydra without any attack, special, or cast boons
lament coral
that seems improbable to me, unless you purposefully took dash/call somewhere?
over attack/special/cast
opaque merlin
It was very improbable. I just had very few boon rooms offered
I passed up a shop room early on, but aside from that
tidal thorn
I would have just died at Hydra I think.
Or earlier.
When you get no boons like that the run just doesn't mentally pass as playable.
jagged canopy
If you take a trial of the gods does it have a lower chance to give you their duo boon/reduces chance of their duo boon in general?
thorny edge
you cant get duo boons in a trial of the gods i believe
lament coral
you can't get duo boons from the feuding gods, you could get other gods' duos
for example, if you're doing a Zeus/Demeter trial you won't be offered their duo, but you could see Zeus/Ares duo
naive tusk
I didn’t know that 😮
lament coral
you need to be eligible for the other duos, of course
rare salmon
I just got Vengeful Mood as my 4th boon... what are the best Revenge Effects? So far I only have Normal Rarity Zeus Revenge.
unkempt pagoda
the easiest would be to go for ares's revenge, which is pretty strong in its own right
turbid needle
Aphro and Zeus.
unkempt pagoda
aphro and athena have their revenges as well
rare salmon
I have Athena's Attack, so I could get her Revenge. And I'll try to get Aphro's 🙂 Let's see what happens!
unkempt pagoda
if you manage to get all four, god bless anything that stands in your way
rare salmon
Haha - let's try this! 😄
I haven't used any Keepsakes yet, so it's certainly possible.
Who should I try for first? I just finished the furies with Athena Attack, Ares Special, Zeus Revenge, and the Zeus / Ares Duo.
I could take Ares, Aphro, or Athena right now.
I'm thinking maybe Aphrodite... don't you max out at 4 gods?
sacred idol
Ah yes, the Resting B**** Face build
rare salmon
@sacred idol Help! Which Keepsake should I go with first? 🙂
Technically I have 3 more Keepsakes, and 3 more gods... so this is doable 😛
sacred idol
Not sure... why didn't you take one before
rare salmon
I took the Coin Purse to see what I'd get, and liked what I got.
Ended up using it to buy an extra boon early, so it was worth it.
sacred idol
Well take aphro so you can get that one as your lock in god
No point taking a repeat
rare salmon
It's Rank 1, but it'll work 🙂
sacred idol
Yup
turbid needle
Coin purse is great
rare salmon
I need to level it anyway.
I didn't have a plan this run, so took the coin purse.
That was awesome - I have Aphrodite's keepsake, found Hermes first, and he said, "Aphrodite said she's running just a little late, Coz"
unkempt pagoda
well, you could guarantee aphro and athena, and since you should already have ares he’s likely to show up at styx or before
rare salmon
I already have Athena, too.
So I forced Aphro, because I've boons from the other three already 🙂
Got an Epic Aphro Revenge the first time I found her.
rare salmon
Got Ares! Now just Athena left.
mellow quest
i just noticed giving Bouldy nectar gives you a tiny boon in return
like 3% attack damage
turbid needle
Occasionally he'll hook you up with a 9% Obol or movement speed increase.
rare salmon
I had to pass up the Aphro / Athena Duo for it, but I got Athena Revenge!
Sorry, live blogging this run 😛
turbid needle
There is a reward for beating the game at 32 Heat.
green sable
its called "You have WAY too much time on your hands" Reward
trail timber
Alright. Thanks.
green sable
🙂
turbid needle
Oh, no, I get that reward once I break 1000 Escape Attempts.
blazing mulch
Ive remember getting archivment in diablo 3 for playing 2k hours.. 😂
turbid needle
Sword's the best weapon in the game. 
fallow niche
LMAO apparently
The Taiwanese guy who had the first WR for 32 heat this patch with Guan Yu did it
Dude's a beast
He also held the WR last patch with Hestia
And it was a terrible run too, he made 32 heat look like a joke
What a god
rare salmon
Is there a video? 🙂
turbid needle
Damn, Epic Pauper's Strike in spawn Chaos, shoulda taken Hestia.
turbid needle
The video was posted in Self-Promotion.
rare salmon
Thanks!
bright mulch
FInally got the Heart Rend run
End was getting real dicey, basically just stood in his face and unloaded Max Charge Specials and hoping for those big crits to save the day
Worked out lol, was probably one hit away from dying though
fallow niche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkA_40NnJdY @rare salmon
thorny edge
what is rocket bomb's current base damage?
turbid needle
mild crag
it was fine but now it's really stronk 
turbid needle
I'm happy people are realizing how good it is (it doesn't need Cluster Bomb, either), but a little saddened it took an overtuning for it to be apparent.
naive tusk
Love the simple way you put it 😁
naive tusk
I’d react with a ❤️ but I can’t 😦
turbid needle
You could click the thumbs up. 
naive tusk
That’s enticing enough 
mellow quest
just had a ridiculous shield run where i had tidal dash + rupture, Dio attack for hangover, ares special for doom and Aphrodite cast for weak
turbid needle
Yes.
mellow quest
everyone gets a status!
turbid needle
They massacre my boy and then they bring in him.
bold salmon
Piercing Fire Hazard Bomb or Delta Chamber? No boons
turbid needle
What's the rest of your kit?
naive tusk
I should definitely try it out. Surprised I haven’t yet (Rocket Bomb build, I mean)
turbid needle
And what Aspect?
bold salmon
Eris
turbid needle
Piercing.
mellow quest
delta chamber is pretty bad tbh
naive tusk
Isn’t it additive?
turbid needle
Kossetsu, didn't you calc it out once?
naive tusk
Like 2nd shot gets +2, 3rd +3...
turbid needle
I remember something like a near-50% DPS loss.
naive tusk
Oof
bold salmon
Oh no, dont like hazard bomb...It hurts me.
lament coral
wait, the damage goes up?
naive tusk
I think so but not sure
turbid needle
Yes.
lament coral
Your Attack deals +1 damage for each uninterrupted hit to a foe.
turbid needle
If, if, you can get consistent hits, it ramps up 11, 12, 13...
lament coral
hm, so it's more than +12
mellow quest
concentrated fire is pretty okay on flurry fire w/ eris aspect because then it is more than 1 extra damage per shot
but otherwise pretty meh hammer upgrade
mild crag
yeah delta chamber is a pretty serious dps loss
problem with concentrated fire is the window for a "consecutive" shot is half a second
naive tusk
Imagine full Athena Call with Concentrated Fire and Zag Aspect
mild crag
so you have really no chance to do anything else
naive tusk
For the lulz
lament coral
what if you miss?
rancid shore
tbf it wouldn't really be "concentrated" if you could do anything else but hold down the attack
mild crag
can't remember the rail's fire rate
but i think there's enough time to miss a shot
maybe
naive tusk
So what would you recommend for a Rocket Bomb build? 
lament coral
I remember taking it but couldn't tell how good the damage was, since I already had an epic Zeus attack on
naive tusk
Aspects and boons alike
turbid needle
Deadly Flourish, Passion Dash, Eris Aspect.
rancid shore
does rocket + cluster work?
mellow quest
Artemis rocket on Eris aspect is pretty nice
lament coral
yes, rocket works with cluster
turbid needle
Basically, you run face-first at enemies and fire rockets at them point blank.
lament coral
and yes, the damage is very stronk
mellow quest
and yes it can work with cluster
rancid shore
man, rocket is the best
mellow quest
rocket shotgun
turbid needle
There's a 40 Heat run by Horheristo with that set-up.
mellow quest
how many max heat runs are floating around post rework
mild crag
none
turbid needle
naive tusk
Oh, thanks! I will try that out ☺️
turbid needle
I'm sure some dedicated souls are beating their heads against the wall trying to do max heat, but between the lack of healing and the timer it's not possible.
mellow quest
and can't you manipulate the seed for a run
lament coral
I mean, can't you use Nyx's keepsake to heal off darkness?
mild crag
ex-dedicated max heat soul here
turbid needle
Lasting Consequences at 100% disables all healing.
lament coral
even off darkness?
mellow quest
-100% health regen disables every source of healing
mild crag
you can't heal yes
mild crag
lifesteal works still
lament coral
that's very strange
lament coral
because I got the impression that you're expected to use the shawl in order to counter -100%
mellow quest
and no max hp gain
mild crag
gonna slam my hand down on the table and say it's impossible to beat max heat
mellow quest
i can see 48 if you bump the timer to 9
mild crag
after trying for many hours and dying in elysium every time
mellow quest
but 7 minutes is barely enough for even 32 heat
mild crag
also i thought so too
turbid needle
I don't disagree that math is hard.
mild crag
but honestly
theseus and asterius is such a broken fight
it's just not worth the frustration i caused me
mellow quest
do you mean the extreme measures version
turbid needle
Getting Asterius spinning and Theseus dropping bombs on the perimeter. 
mellow quest
cuz I too enjoy 90 degrees tracking and invisible bomb aoes
turbid needle
I've heard invisible bombs are when their trajectory changes for some reason.
mild crag
yeah they bounce off the wall
mellow quest
while 40% faster Asterius spins me right round baby right round
naive tusk
Like a record, baby
mild crag
naive tusk
They should
mild crag
where did that bomb come from
nobody knows
i cant even follow which one it was he fired
it just fell out of the wall
mellow quest
it clearly came from Theseus's mask
as glorious as it is
you were blinded as to where it came form
turbid needle
👏 NERF 👏 THOSE 👏 BOMBS 👏
And I don't just mean fixing their reticle on deflection, they hit too hard.
lament coral
you can't nerf those bombs
turbid needle
They are the single hardest hitting thing in the game up to that point.
lament coral
for they come from the BROTHERLY BOND BETWEEN TWO WARRIORS
naive tusk
Nice invisible side cannons you’ve got there, Theseus
turbid needle
No, they come from Zagreus making a horrible mistake with the Pact.
mellow quest
heat 50: every fight is the thesues + asterius fight
mild crag
my mental anguish requests i stop trying
mellow quest
and also they will be there with Hades
rare salmon
Thank you @fallow niche !
mild crag
i was actually not having as much trouble with flamewheels since i ended up being able to get spread fire with explosive fire
it cleaned them up pretty well
naive tusk
Is there a reason the guy shoots his casts before entering the next chamber?
mild crag
rng manipulation
naive tusk
Oh, inside stuff
mild crag
he's manipulating the next chamber to give him a reward he wants
naive tusk
Wonder how he figured that out
mild crag
from watching speedrunners probably, or looking into the code himself
i investigated it a lot myself, i was late to the party tho so they had worked out most of it just not specifics
naive tusk
I see. Pretty hardcore stuff...
mild crag
it's pretty easy to understand, just requires a bit of explanation
maybe i'll make a video about it
naive tusk
So you hyped for the new rail aspect, I bet 😄
mild crag
yes 
sacred idol
@lament coral Asterius without EM feels like he has... I dunno, 300 or 315 degrees of turning radius.
turbid needle
Like, confirmed for next month or just in general?
sacred idol
You have to almost dash in the direction he's coming from or you get oofed
mild crag
they didn't confirm guan yu aspect before long winter came out so it could happen!
sacred idol
I think it MIGHT be harder to dodge at lower speed?
mild crag
im not real good at dodging asterius on my max heat attempts
sacred idol
Because the accelerated non EM with Overtime 1 felt easier to me
mild crag
mix of bad execution and panic
sacred idol
Or I just got used to his charge
turbid needle
Don't do it.
lament coral
Elysium would've been easy if exalted couldn't dash or attack through stunlock
but they can, and there's no warning
naive tusk
I hate the mini chariots 😆
lament coral
that's because spear range is deceptive
turbid needle
Oh yeah, Longspears are easily the most dangerous enemy in their element in the entire game.
naive tusk
Shame on your cow, Felis
mild crag
they go nyooooooooooom and jump at you
turbid needle
The only thing I fear more are Super Elite Nemean Chariots and Strongbows.
sacred idol
My cow is already more dishonored than Corvo Attano
Lifetime gameshark/codebreaker gang
turbid needle
I would rather do room after room of the Barge of Death than deal with Longspear Death Squads.
sacred idol
@turbid needle What is rocket bomb now?
turbid needle
mild crag
a hundo
sacred idol
Oof
Yeah it's fine at 80
Especially since cluster rocket exists
That hammer combo is great, just... probably not 100x5
Actually wait, no, -30% happens to it
mild crag
i remember when it was -50% and it was still really really good
sacred idol
70x5 vs 56x5
mild crag
it just sucked without rocket
mellow quest
the nice thing about the cluster bomb is that the spread is based on distance w/o rocket so you can cluster them very tightly all on one enemy if you need to
sacred idol
Yes
mellow quest
there's also something amusing about "Dad wouldn't let me leave so I carpet bombed him in retaliation"
sacred idol
Norse rail, aspect of the Valkyrie... but it just makes winged horses drop a line of bombs for special
Because that makes it Ride of the Valkyries
ebon thistle
mild crag
@devout seal chiron aspect not achilles 
mild crag
@devout seal double tilde for ~~strikethrough~~
devout seal
Guess I had my favorite NPC on the brain.
mild crag
THAT'S RIGHT I SAW IT
devout seal
I figured it was something like that but decided to just delete it
Too used to Slack
devout seal
(Two tildes? In THIS economy?)
mild crag
i was shocked when the range got really cut off
devout seal
Yeah, that was a real "uh-oh" moment
mild crag
oopsie poopsie
devout seal
Even Demeter couldn't help me then
mild crag
maybe it could just affect damage or number of arrows
instead of range as well
number of arrows would be sick
devout seal
oh that would be amazing- charge it up for more arrows
buuut that would probably become exceptionally broken on the Chiron aspect
mild crag
im just imagining it with the 10 stacks of chill boom
opaque merlin
I think the strongest Chiron run I've done was with a full curse build
mellow quest
very underwhelmed by Curse of Longing
opaque merlin
is that the repeating curse thing?
mild crag
Repeating doom
mellow quest
i even have Impending Doom
and it doesn't really do more damage than just reapplying doom would
and compared to Merciful End it fares even worse because that just lets you speed up doom as fast as your build allows basiacally
mild crag
Yep it sucks
turbid needle
Curse of Longing is useful in exactly one scenario: You have Empty Inside.
opaque merlin
Which one is that? I have such a hard time with all the names
turbid needle
Empty Inside increases Weak duration.
turbid needle
Privileged Status.
mild crag
If it hit for 50% constantly (not reducing)
Would it be op?
You'd still have to keep refreshing weak
Would just be a slightly weaker low tolerance with less refresh required
opaque merlin
I think it'd be more interesting if it kept diminishing, but you could have multiple instances of it
mild crag
Hmm
My ideal for is you have weak on your primary attack and doom on a secondary so the doom is the fire and forget sort of thing
mellow quest
i just got screwed by one of the pillars properly blocking a laser from Hades
was dead before I could even hit f10
lament coral
just reduce the amount
the idea is that you apply doom once and it lasts forever
provided you can apply weak reliably
which would grant you nigh permanent Priv Stat
sacred idol
@mild crag It should diminish by a smaller amount imo
mild crag
As long as it requires action still i think its fine
The doom lasting forever as long as you're applying doom is good
But as it is it does very little then runs out
lament coral
let's do the numbers
common poison does 4 damage every 0.5 seconds, max 5 stacks, so 4 * 5 * 2 = 40 every second, but you have to hit every second
common doom is 50 damage after 1.1 seconds
with Dio/Aphro duo, poison goes to 4 * 8 * 2 = 64 every second
turbid stag
ew math
lament coral
Ares/Aphro duo, doom does 50 after 1.1, then 38.5 after 1.1, then 28.8 and so forth, and you only need to hit twice
Ares/Aphro is just slower
opaque merlin
Worth remembering also that there's a lot more "wasted" hits with that approach
lament coral
is it not 25% of 50, then 25% of 38.5 etc.?
opaque merlin
Poison makes you have to hit more often, but also those hits are always helpful
lament coral
no, 25% is the reduction of the next tick
sacred folio
Well the wiki says it's "Successive Hit Damage: 25%"
sacred idol
(To clarify, each successive Doom hit will deal 25% of the previous one.)
lament coral
it is infinite Priv Stat tho
sacred idol
Yeah, that's the problem.
sacred folio
It sure is trash. It's not hard to keep hitting enemies every 1.1 sec to maintain Doom anyway
lament coral
yeah, ok
sacred idol
If it worked the way you said, it would be fine.
mild crag
It gets reduced by 75%
So it's 25% of the previous hit
And if it gets below 1 it stops
So it hits a max of 4 or 5 times
lament coral
right, so it's at most 6 seconds of Priv Stat
mild crag
Impending doom is actually a higher damage bonus than the duo boon
lament coral
which Demeter can achieve without duos
mellow quest
war man bad
weak might be a weak status overall but it at least has strong combos and a decent duration, plus the boons that apply it have the best damage modifiers of the bunch
fiery shale
aphrodite is cool because low tolerance is amazing
and so is chaos shield with dio special
priv status + 3 extra stacks 😩
dim rapids
so apparently perfect clear title doesn't have to be perfect
as long you as have max DDs and max health
mild crag
You don't even need max DD just max health
dim rapids
that kinda makes the title slightly less worth than i thought it was
mild crag
Indeed
sacred idol
No. End of run title.
mild crag
Sure does
turbid needle
Well, easier 😛 sorry
pseudo hamlet
I thought you got perfect clear for just not taking damage against hades. I thought I'd gotten it 4-5 times without being at max health but having not taken damage during the fight, but maybe not. Have never tested if taking damage then somehow healing back to full (shady summon or quan yu heal or such) can trigger it, but guessing not.
mild crag
it's by finishing with max hp
woeful stirrup
I've had it by ending the fight with full HP. I did take damage during the fight but Guan Yu healed me back to full.
untold quiver
So I was skeptical when reading about the revamped Dio Dash......but man vs the last two bosses that basical chase you it's damn near 100% uptime on five stacks
opaque merlin
yeah, it's real strong
I've never tried to use it for damage, but it's great for privileged status
atomic mist
I killed the Hydra once just by dashing in circles around the main head lol
untold quiver
I had a great dot build going, that Demeter's wasting boon, razor shoals.....it helped really wind down between run ins to unload Aphrodite blasts (Posidon blade)
frank pecan
I almost always get disciple of Hermes as my win title
I guess that means I spammed dash?
tidal thorn
Fast run?
eternal stag
i think that's when you have three hermes boons
obtuse tapir
does a perfect run grant the player anything?
seems really interesting but it looks a bit difficult to have full HP at the end of Hades fight
eternal stag
bragging rights
lime estuary
@lament coral you or someone else should take that math you did in regards to “Curse of Longing” and use it to make a proper feedback post so the devs are guaranteed to see it.
tidal thorn
Ok I maxed Chaos shield and now I'm wondering when things get hard again.
This thing is nasty.
tidal thorn
Uh I've been through a couple of builds because I've just been treating through runs. I think my favorite one was Athena/Ares.
Instant trigger Doom is pretty great.
fiery shale
try 8 stacks of poison
dim rapids
does hydra skip work in extreme measures hydra?
tidal thorn
EXCEPT I wish I had Ares attack/Athena special but I had the opposite.
sacred idol
when things get hard again
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
tidal thorn
That would have been actually perfect.
mild crag
hydra skip only works in EM hydra iirc @dim rapids
proud storm
late to this but there's also a title for when you finish a run with no DDs and less than 5% hp
dim rapids
the videos i've seen are not in EM hydra though?
mild crag
might be old videos what do they use
dim rapids
meg
mild crag
strange i thought it only worked in EM since you started closer to the boss
and that it was no longer possible on non em
lament coral
@lime estuary nah, it's all trash
if SGG wanted to change those, they would've done it
sacred idol
I mean
lament coral
just look at Zagreus weapon aspects, they're trash, with spear's being the only exception because of how basic it is
sacred idol
"The math makes it bad" is a valid issue
lament coral
they can't not know that they're garbage, they have all of that data they collect off players