i think you just place them all down real quick like
#h1-builds-and-combat
mild crag
i think it could be cool if a hammer special made you excalibur the sword into the ground and it stayed there constantly bursting the special
dense star
Definitely feel the prediction thing with respect to inferno bombers, dashing into their triple bomb escape
naive tusk
Oh, so no faster rate of fire but only quick casting them in succession. Got it, thanks!
dense star
Yeah, flurry cast doesn't boost the beams damage tick rate, just the rate in which you put them down
mild crag
the sword upgrade that makes it shoot projectiles would be awesome if it actually got affected by attack upgrades
pallid dagger
very weak base damage. even the piercing attribute just...doesn't make it worth it.
i mostly use it to give the sword some distance so i don't have to get up close to things like nemean chariots that happen to be across gaps.
mild crag
delete chariots
increase turning circle while charging and make them able to crash into walls
PLEASE
dense star
Since it doesn't scale it really hurts, though it is a ranged option...technically
pallid dagger
^ Asterius ARE YOU LISTENING
mild crag
the chariots should be at least as easy to dodge as the damn boss is lol
dense star
I eventually got used to Asterius's turning radius
pallid dagger
i still disagree on that. but i find the chariots easier since, even if you can't make them crash, you can outpace them with some dashes. asterius clearly never skipped leg day.
turbid needle
mild crag
i can outpace the chariots til they charge
(with overtime anyway)
and if they're t he elites with armor gods help zagreus
turbid needle
If they're Elite and you don't have Drift Dash/5 dashes you're getting hit at least once.
mild crag
just remove chariots and flamewheels from elysium ty
turbid needle
They just need fixing.
They were good at one point, they only hit once, they stopped when they hit walls.
But they were then reverted.
mild crag
its a shame since numbskulls and bloodless get it right
when you dodge them you've won
not when you dodge them you just lost
green sable
i hate that bulls rush...its BS imo
i finally just dashed through the pillars enough he eventually stopped
but thats alot of twitchy movement
pallid dagger
that's what i try to do
mild crag
probably i have with asterius sometimes is he turns the wrong way at the walls
like if he turns one way he hits the wall
but the other way he doesnt
pallid dagger
i'd be trying to get him to crash into walls more, but that outer ring is where theseus likes to lay his bombs. and aim his spear.
green sable
i hate him and the king fight worse.
the bull is at least deal with able
that fool starts summoning god powers and then goes into a spiel of "now you can't defeat me!"
or something insane like that lol
pallid dagger
by all means bro, sit still so i can hit you with thanatos
mild crag
yeah its like thank god he stopped moving and blocking
green sable
i swear they also go invincible when i activate god mode
i hit god call all i see from the thing is "Impervious" like every shot
im like omg.
mild crag
Hate when they go impervious and keep walking or attacking anyway
Happens so frequently
hybrid frost
Exploit Alert:
It turns out that if damage that causes you to lose a DD is the first damage you've taken that chamber, if you bring up the pause menu before the DD animation finishes, you still have the option to Quit instead of Give Up allowing you to start the chamber over without having lost your DD.
This is due to the damage that triggers DD not actually being considered dealt to you until the DD animation resolves.
mellow quest
i hate the exploding tiny chariots
but they're so adorable
they're like highly destructive cats, you can't stay mad at them
night pasture
I know I got the legendary chaos boon this run, and I have the extra charge of death defiance, but it's not showing up in my boons
however I've picked up like 5 chaos boons this run, and it's only showing 3
is that a glitch? is there a maximum you can have?
pallid dagger
that happens sometimes
naive tusk
I also picked the Legendary Chaos boon and, as soon as the curse was lifted, it disappeared from the boon list but an extra Death Defiance appeared. So, I think that’s how it works
pallid dagger
in my experience, you'll still get the benefit, but the boon itself sometimes disappears
mild crag
@pallid dagger having the voiceline play when you start a run is part of the seed, and since the seed is the same if you give up it'll play again - I don't think it's trivial to change that either
Would be nice if they didn't play at all once you've heard them all though lol
pallid dagger
guhhh.
i already sent a feedback regarding seed alteration. hopefully it gets installed.
mild crag
Oh having give up reroll the seed?
night pasture
also sometimes I hear a grinding noise in rooms, or maybe like the shield charge up sound effect?
is that a known thing
uncut sand
Is there a way other than death to seed reset as of yet?
native ether
at the current moment, no
naive tusk
Yay
mellow quest
vengeful mood duo boon is pretty fun/interesting
turbid needle
I think it could stand a buff from 3.5 seconds.
But I agree that it's an incredibly unique upgrade.
mellow quest
yeah it's not particularly strong but it is pretty cute
jagged canopy
whats a good special for explosive skewer? (as in god)
obtuse tapir
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/653173587485786115/675204051994148894/image.png I think I'm good with 20 heat now
I'm thinking of increasing heat - what are some of the recommendations?
Gonna try 25 but not sure what to add on top of this madness
tidal thorn
I really like the dash attack upgrade on the spear.
green sable
you know going +40 haste then having the dash haste 100% for a few seconds moves Zag around stupidly fast
tidal thorn
Speaking of, are there things his "X is faster" just doesn't work with?
I got a 30% faster special on the rail and it didn't feel like it did anything.
Default special.
green sable
yeh rail feels like a weak weapon imo
ive ran it like 12 times in a row
....its just meh
tidal thorn
Not that I think the rail is weak but the special didn't seem faster at all.
I really want Guan Yu...so much blood.
green sable
im trying demeters Crystal Laser thing...its AWESOME
tidal thorn
Do you have the duo?
brisk island
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/303091077643108356/675210743557390336/unknown.png 
2k damage shots gamble. Better than lootboxes anyway. 😂
If pic upload die: (Hestia Aspect lvl5 base damage 150) Hunter's Dash lvl3: 101%, 2x Slothful Lunge: 75%+84% = +260% Dash-Strike damage; Deadly Strike (only effect matters 200% extra damage with 15% chance to occur); Piercing Fire (hammer upgrade) - makes shots deal damage to several targets. No crit: 530 per shot | Critical: 1510 | Critical + Shard + Backstab 113%: 2325 dmg (can be wrong, don't used calculator) 
green sable
wow
brisk island
l'm love this build - hestia aspect still stupidly op.
mellow quest
this build is ridiculous-- Dio dash + posideon cast w/ rupture, shield double attack w/ zues attack + jolted. Artemis support fire is going off too and +7% pressure points for crits
just constantly getting boiling blood + Priv bonuses with lots of dots ticking
it's a good run when you can't even see Zagreus underneath all the effects, right?
fair ferry
Does Hangover cap at a certain number of applications like it shows on the health bar?
mellow quest
it caps at 5, and an additional 3 with a duo boon with Aphrodite against weak foes
fair ferry
Awww so my 8 applications per bow volley aren't really paying off lol
mellow quest
it's still a ton of damage to have all 5-8 stacks
green sable
neaty
*neat
im using Demeters cast with all the cast funs
Laser beams that follow people and hurt 🙂
jagged canopy
https://prnt.sc/qysfrl this was pretty fun
only missing sub 20 with the bow, would've got it but I got satyr sack on the last room I checked 
fair ferry
oh dear god explosive shotgun rail
green sable
thats how i got my spear run won right there
fair ferry
thank you and goodnight
green sable
i DO need a rail run along with a bow run to finish my fates list.
jagged canopy
lmao
fair ferry
LOL
They'll lock onto him too fast but I can surround him with them maybe
That'd be funny
fair ferry
Yeah I just got crazy lucky with repeated Demeter and Artemis boons
green sable
fully loaded is a seriously nice boon for Cast builds
turbid needle
when are we getting the highly anticipated bouldy romantic option?
jagged canopy
when are we getting the 4th extreme measures for the final boss
A heat option that's basically free heat for heavy hitting builds but hurts the fast many attack builds (like chaos shield) would be nice, kinda how Damage Control is free heat for the fast many attack builds but hurts weapons like hestia gun
fair ferry
Clear LoS!
jagged canopy
I take skull earring or acorn usually since lasers dont give me an issue
after you get used to them
turbid needle
Why skull? You asically never use it during Hades fight
Also, Styx has rats that deal 3 damage, if hit for 3 you are immune for 1.5 seconds. Poison, one tick and immune for 1.5 seconds
Poison geisers
Laser beams
dim rapids
broken spearpoint
dim rapids
morning to you
pseudo hamlet
@smoky oasis I've found three things with the lasers. First, they are more like air projectiles so the low stuff like broken pillars don't block. Second, it seems if any part of the lasers hitbox can go through something (like near the edge) then the whole things seems to do so. And last, but most importantly, you can just dash right on top of Hades during any laser attack and not get hit + get free damage off on him.
dim rapids
does sisyphus' summon always drop fixed rewards?
pseudo hamlet
I am not 100% but I don't think so. I've never super paid attention, but it feels similar to Poseidon's boon that gives currencies.
dim rapids
feels like it's always 90 gold 10 darkness and quite a bit of healing
but the gold doesn't get affected by chaos boons
also can you sell pre-requisite boons once you obtained the duo?
dim rapids
for hunting blades?
you don't really need artemis on attack or special for it i assume
dim rapids
can there be an exchange of heroic > heroic?
jagged canopy
not sure
turbid needle
Butterfly didnt work in Styx right?
rugged estuary
@turbid needle Correct. Only the big / final rooms count.
rugged estuary
@dim rapids Nope, you won't get offered swaps for heroic skills.
Notably, heroic skills also won't be hit by Euridices Ambrosia Delight upgrade, and the Demeter boon that turns your boons common and then slowly upgrades them will also never select beroic boons (not even if there arent any other targets)
dim rapids
lol it's ok i got value
swapped for heroic then sold it
man it's so hard to get athena/zeus/ares legendaries
gloomy vine
If you launch a trippy shot then achilles spear bull rush before it hits ground does that shot get the bull rush bonus or does the bonus not apply because you cast it before you got thr buff?
jagged canopy
I get athena legendary all the time when doing Guan Spear reflect
gloomy vine
I think that despite casting before getting buff it is buffing the damage. Does that mean the cast is actually on hit rather than when prss button?
pseudo hamlet
Is there a list somewhere for the legendary boon prerequisites? I have one for duos
jagged canopy
I know the gamepedia page has them, but not sure if there's like a nice graphic for it
pseudo hamlet
Ahh. Apparently I am too sleepy to think 'check the wiki' 😛 Thanks
jagged canopy
np
rotund wagon
crit build, pressure points or support fire
dense locust
Anyone know how the aspect of zeus on the shield (special sends out the spinning blade shield) works with swift flourish (30% faster special at epic). Does it make the damage interval shorter, make the shield move faster, or does it just get released faster?
left timber
it gets a cool streak effect
sour heath
za`
rotund wagon
hades has now officially make me more frustrated than enjoying it
probably gonna take a long break from the game
dusky steeple
@rotund wagon why is that?
rotund wagon
multiple run with suboptimal boons
manic ermine
@dense locust made a quick clip showing hermes on blitz disc
https://streamable.com/97gnp
rotund wagon
tried different weapons and keepsakes
sure, I could lower the heat and play the game on easy mode, but then I would be playing the same game and gaining no rewards
smoky oasis
how good is blitz disc?
manic ermine
very good
dusky steeple
@rotund wagon forgive me for getting philosophical here, but what are you playing the game for?
dense locust
Awesome video
It looks like all 3 of the attributes i described get affected
hmm
actually maybe just the disc speed
smoky oasis
I find that suboptimal boons doesn't affect my ability to kill Hades much
just take way more time
dense locust
its hard to tell, but it isn't the greatest increase
rotund wagon
not even sure of it myself
dusky steeple
It depends. If you're playing to win, and win without too much challenge, a good luck run is great fun
But I get much more fun out of bad luck runs
because for me roguelites are all about battling through adversity
dense locust
I think its just shield speed now
dusky steeple
and often failing
and in the failing, learning something that might make me fail less next time
I'd pick a different genre if I just wanted to win
dense locust
I feel like i'd be able to pick up on the damage interval speed at a 21% increase
I keep going back and fourth
rotund wagon
Of course I want to win, but I don't want to win just based on good luck, but I don't think doing scratch damage and not having any kind of synergy going in a heated run can help me
sacred folio
@rotund wagon I'm playing at around Heat lv 10 and I'm trying to adapt to making sub-optimal builds work.
smoky oasis
only issue I find is that sometimes the boons you get are 3 support boons when you don't even have attack/sa filled yet
dusky steeple
I'm lower heat than you currently so maybe the frustration lies ahead
smoky oasis
that shouldn't happen imo
dusky steeple
But some of my favourite runs have been where I haven't filled all my boons
yet got further than I expected
dense locust
I didn't look at or try and plan what boons I was using until it became necessary
sacred folio
It's better to just stick to a sub-optimal build than trying to force an ideal build
dusky steeple
I think that if your mindset is "I must get this build to win", you're always gonna be disappointed
rotund wagon
I dontm but I reached Learny with like 5 boons
I dont think you can even call that a build
dusky steeple
I have played many, many more hours of Slay the Spire than Hades, and trying to force any build in that game is a recipe in futility
so maybe that's why it bothers me less in hades
rotund wagon
I dont ask for any kind of fancy boons, just something to fill my slots
something I can work with
I have literally nothing
dusky steeple
so die, and start again 😄
smoky oasis
gotta pick common sometimes
dusky steeple
that's what's gonna happen even if you get to the end anyway
sacred folio
You still have 4 out of 5 rerolls in your screenshot. Have you tried to reroll some of the rooms?
smoky oasis
I just cleared a run with rare attack and common special
it was 45 mins but well, just gotta get it done
dusky steeple
@smoky oasis th...that's slow? 😦
sacred folio
Pom / Heart / Coins can be rerolled into Boons, worth a try
dusky steeple
😂
dusky steeple
I hate shields
with a passion
Without a decent cast or poison effect they're so slow to kill and so nasty when they hit you
dusky steeple
I'm too skill-less to do that
rotund wagon
and I tried again 5 times now
dusky steeple
I had a funny fight with whassisface the boss from elysium
who is basically a bigger fatter shield
where all my skills were crit based
it took forever to beat him because I couldn't get the timing to get behind him
dusky steeple
he's by far my worst boss
harder than final boss almost every time
final boss is actually getting trivial at current difficulty settings
dusky steeple
that's fine if you have doom or poison 😄
smoky oasis
he usually die before the bull
smoky oasis
get a good call slot
dio or zeus
they are spammable and can bring them low quickly
dusky steeple
I've yet to work out calls really
I tend to only remember to use them on final boss
and even then I always seem to pick suboptimal times for it
Also I picked charm call last time and it was a waste of time
zero effect on final boss
smoky oasis
some calls are good to use at full
dusky steeple
much disappointment
smoky oasis
some are better for spamming
try using different calls for a while u will get used to it
dusky steeple
The one I find most underwhelming is athena
smoky oasis
they are mostly used for boss and mini bosses anyways
dusky steeple
It feels like it should be super powerful
smoky oasis
not really, its one of the strongest
dusky steeple
but I find it gets me hurt more than protects me
because I drop my guard a bit whilst call is active
then am in a dumb position when it ends
sacred folio
I usually avoid taking Athena's call for the same reason
sacred folio
Most calls can dish out a big burst of damage to help clean the room
dusky steeple
@sacred folio phew glad it's not just me
smoky oasis
then I press call to save myself
dusky steeple
it's even worse for doom guy
smoky oasis
and deal good dmg
sacred folio
But Athena's can't
dusky steeple
doom guy you have to stand right on baddie
and then you're ALWAYS in a bad position when it ends
smoky oasis
athena can, you just need good reaction time
look at enemy attack and press at the right moment
same for athena dash
sacred folio
That sounds too difficult for a casual player like me
dusky steeple
athena dash is a must pick
smoky oasis
the dmg deal is huge
smoky oasis
yea one of the best dashes
dusky steeple
I'm playing a poseidon crit cast run atm, mid-way through
but I stupidly picked poseidon dash
which it turns out was reeeally dumb
manic ermine
what the hell, Dusa just shot me after killing the boss and cost me a DD
smoky oasis
@manic ermine Dusa?
posseidon dash is super fun too if u pick up double push back and push dmg
just ram yourself to enemy
no need to attack
dusky steeple
I have played a run like that
I picked up poseidon dash AND special on the sword
and all the added bonuses
styx was so easy
was a tad weak on final boss though
smoky oasis
is there a way to reset the run beside suiciding?
dense locust
Oh change the seed, hmm
smoky oasis
only way I find is to change weapon
but sometimes I just wanna grind shield only
my other weapons are under developed
dense locust
Not elegant but maybe choosing a gods aspect to for a certain boon?
foce
force
IDK if it works im mid run and cant test
marsh vigil
out of all the weapons, the blade is the most boring to play with
imo
i've tried different builds
also how is it that there's no dedicated option in the menu to restart the run?
u even have to go a few rooms to even get the option to give up the run, at least that's what i experienced
dense locust
To give up you have to have taken damage in that room
dense locust
But there should be a reset seed option
dense locust
When you give up, it gives you the same run as last time
marsh vigil
yea
dense locust
needs to be a reset seed option
marsh vigil
is there one?
dense locust
no
marsh vigil
damn
dense locust
Ill try and figure out a work around
I just demolished with 500 hp and the shield
Fun when the final boss struggles to get you down to half hp
marsh vigil
usually it just put u back to the earliest save
which is when u entered the courtyard
marsh vigil
yep
dense locust
if it says give up, it puts you at the room before the start but keeps the seed
marsh vigil
shield is fun to play but it gets monotonous quick
bull rush -> special
rinse and repeat
dense locust
I got the bull rush arrow shot one and didnt use it once lol
marsh vigil
stack it with hangover and chill and u got a pretty strong build
dense locust
Just wanted to be tanky so I could constantly dash attack (5 dashes with athenas reflect) and let my spinning blade shield follow me around
marsh vigil
tho i prefer going athena's deflect build
attack deflect, special deflect, cast deflect, dash deflect
lmao
u really can't be touch
dense locust
Its fun when you get the extra hp from hp boosts early
marsh vigil
can i just skip the heat level and jump straight to 16?
to unlock the 2nd statue
cuz my shield rn is at 11
mellow quest
aspect of eris or the third one i never remember the name of
zag aspect is bland and spammy
dense locust
Eris is my fave
mellow quest
the other two encourage cycling a build
dense locust
the 3rd one is hard because if you don't land your shot, the damage is low
mellow quest
which is a lot more engaging
mellow quest
less darkness to spend through the mirror
dense locust
It's the worst
mellow quest
it's essentially a cap on character progression
dense locust
The first level is so massively dibilitating
mellow quest
the worst part is that you can't reallocate at the pact 😢
mellow quest
have to walk back to your room
marsh vigil
it'll be minus 50?
mellow quest
no, it caps the total darkness invested
dense locust
You can only spend a certain amount of darkness essentially
instead of as much as you have
Good for early heats maybe
marsh vigil
what if you already maxed out in the mirror?
dense locust
Then budget cuts will limit it severely
dense locust
If you get rocket bomb and cluster bomb on the rail its a pretty fun time
mellow quest
500 cap for example - you have 500 to spend on any of the mirror stats
marsh vigil
crap
mellow quest
so you can't even afford to put in the second death's defiance
marsh vigil
it doesn't rellocate once u turned it off
dense locust
And then the attack benefits a ton from things like zeus chain lightning, chill, or hangover
marsh vigil
haven't gotten a fast bow build yet
dense locust
aspect of eris on the rail is amazing because it allows for additional sources of damage
Some shots and casts inbetween big special bombs is significant
dense locust
Yeah you just have to have been hit by it
dense locust
with the right boons, it just becomes icing, but when you can keep it on you, its big damage
marsh vigil
that one was like a trap or something
dense locust
And rocket bomb with cluster bomb is essentially a missle shotgun
marsh vigil
how to play spear
guan yu aspect
charge time faster upgrade
hold mouse 1
ez game
how to play shield
hold mouse 1 a bit harder
🤡
dense locust
idk, i have trouble with damage sometimes if rely on my spinning healing blade becase the final boss just moves right out of it and I have to sit there to charge it
Not saying its incredibly strong for every part of the game before that, but he's a slippery one
not incredibly*
marsh vigil
yea it's not reliable
but if u can make it works, it's strong
otherwise u can do dash strike build
dense locust
Its great for getting to the boss because of the healing mechanism and insane damage on slow moving mobs
dim rapids
for me it was like
marsh vigil
bow i go zeus and artemis
dim rapids
got epic ares aid in erebus
nimble cypress
And his call is good too
marsh vigil
ah yes
dim rapids
ares is either good or bad
marsh vigil
ares call
dim rapids
unless doom
marsh vigil
turning u into a fidget spinner
nimble cypress
I feel like Artemis isn't much for damage except the one where bloodstone does damage when it comes out
timber temple
nimble cypress
I mean I like it better than Zeus call, anyway. I don't just hang out that close to foes normally so the short range of the call is awkward for me
marsh vigil
i wonder if we can get a mode which u can only get boons from a single god
i'd love to do a few runs of athena only
or dionysus
nimble cypress
Athena call is the best
marsh vigil
ares doom doesn't stack unless u get a boon that let u stack it right?
naive tusk
That’s right
chrome gate
Made it to the third floor for the first time! Then promptly got destroyed by someone with an axe to grind hahah. This game is great.
marsh vigil
Keep going
The game is hard at first but once u get the rhythm of it
It's really fun
chrome gate
I'll try to! yeah the combat feels smooth, i've got to get the hang of constantly moving.
the bow is weird to use.
marsh vigil
Soon u will just curb stomping everything
chrome gate
yeah, the game certainly seems to reward putting time into it.
I've yet to put much time into it, but it's fun when i do.
marsh vigil
How far along are u?
chrome gate
not far. I only got the game recently. think i'm at my 11th run? 12th?
marsh vigil
Ah
chrome gate
I've got a lot to unlock on the mirror, and still collecting keys for the weapons
marsh vigil
So u haven't unlocked the weapon aspects yet i assumed?
chrome gate
yeah, I think i've got to progress the story first?
marsh vigil
Yep
chrome gate
not sure how one does that.
mild crag
Unlock every weapon, and do one more run
mild crag
That's how you unlock Aspects anyway
sacred folio
well the story works tightly with the gameplay. "first clear" doesn't really reveal that much of the story like traditional adventure games
chrome gate
ok thanks for the heads up. Might try out the shield on my next run
chrome gate
oh, sounds useful on first floor boss.
mellow quest
the hardest part is getting used to blocking aoes with it
marsh vigil
Just dash thru aoe
chrome gate
ok
mellow quest
mostly thinking of inferno bombs and some of the Elysium enemies
chrome gate
oh, i should ask, how the heck do you deal with butterflies?
marsh vigil
Your attack can clear the butterflies
mellow quest
it's like the witch projectiles and fang attack on the hydra
chrome gate
ah, i was using bow, so that explains why i wasn't getting rid of many of them.
marsh vigil
My strat when it comes to the butterfly balls is just stand close and spam
mellow quest
the bow volley will clear pretty much all of them in a swathe
marsh vigil
Special can also clear any projectiles
sacred folio
Enjoy the game
marsh vigil
Remember, there is no escape
main citrus
Am enjoying it a lot as well.
sacred folio
I'm trying to become a versatile spear player. But I always ended up spamming Flurry Jab :\
main citrus
I feel you
sacred folio
Both spin and special are kinda clunky
marsh vigil
does anyone actually use spear special?
main citrus
Special is good with Achilles
sacred folio
And Guan Yu aspect is like, the 6th weapon already
main citrus
Also, Serrated Edge > Flurry Jab :p
I am only three prophecies from filling the Fates thing so far
Need the last Shield upgrade, the last Chaos boon and Skelly's prize, whatever that is and how I am supposed to get it
marsh vigil
skelly prize
just talk to him
and give him gift
and then he'll tell u to use the blade to kill him
no wait
the prize
main citrus
Already done it :p
marsh vigil
isn't it the statue?
main citrus
I only am missing two companions by now.
And I don't even know how I should even do the prize thing, no clue whatsoever lol
marsh vigil
i think u talk to him and keep giving him gift
main citrus
Already have bond forged with him.
marsh vigil
and then he'll reveal 3 hidden statues in the corner of the yard
main citrus
Can't give anything else lol
marsh vigil
i just got that skelly prize earlier today
obtuse tapir
are the statues hidden or something?
marsh vigil
or just talk to him after every run
marsh vigil
he still got a few more dialogues to go thru
no still the same @obtuse tapir
8-16-32
main citrus
High heat? Ugh, my max is 4 >>
marsh vigil
the first statue to unlock is 8
obtuse tapir
16 is doable
main citrus
Ouch lol
obtuse tapir
32 is terrible
marsh vigil
32 is really for masochists
obtuse tapir
I unlocked it when the heat system was different and the hydra was the final boss
even then it was super difficult
main citrus
I add one heat, do all weapon runs to the end, then I add more
So it's gonna be slow :p
And will probably be a Shield run lol
obtuse tapir
that's a totally enjoyable way to do the game
marsh vigil
u can jump the heat up to 8 right away
obtuse tapir
jumping up and up is really for seeking difficulty
main citrus
I like chilling. Almost gettkng to 4th Fated Prophecy charge via darkness lmao
marsh vigil
my fav run to date is still shield athena
i deflected everything
making it dummy easy to breeze thru anything
main citrus
My fave was deffo my railgun record
sacred idol
What's the best companion to pick first?
main citrus
Low 23 right after I did a timed run with a sword and got a high 23 lol
Depends on preference. Meg and Than are solid
Easiest is Skelly
sacred folio
Sisyphus. It gives coin.
marsh vigil
i still haven't unlocked meg, than or sisyphus keepsakes
i got meg to visit the bed chamber
main citrus
I have Skelly, Meg and Dusa
marsh vigil
i got skelly and dusa
main citrus
Meg did the naughties to Zag D:
marsh vigil
she's hot tho
sacred folio
Other companions only help with the fight. But Sisyphus' gives coin & healing
opaque moon
hemlo
main citrus
I still need to unlock Sisyphus and Than's locked hearts :p
sacred folio
5 uses => 300 coins. That's a lot of coin
main citrus
Wonder who'll be the sixth companion 👀
sacred idol
Generally speaking, how much health does a boss have, and how much can be knocked off by summoning
[chants] CER-BE-RUS! CER-BE-RUS!
main citrus
I am rooting for Artemis 👀
main citrus
I know 2500 isn't enough to knock one phase of Hades because of the Aphrodite call
It is to knock one Hydra phase tho
sacred folio
IIRC you can find booses' HP on the wiki
Still, I prefer to collect coins and turn them into Diamonds / Titan Blood at the Styx shop
I'll definitely switch to other companions after I don't have remaining upgrades / unlocks
main citrus
I need unlocks of Titan and Diamond too, but again, I don't even have 100 runs yet lol
sacred idol
Oh, so that's how people afford those.
sacred folio
Yeah. Or you can just spend the coins anywhere else. 300 is quite a lot.
dim dragon
karmic ginkgo
Seeing people like beat this game with 10+ heat is wyld
untold widget
I'm happy people think so while I'm getting constantly humbled by 32 heat haha
mellow quest
that feel when your build is so bad that support fire is nearly doubling its output by itself
mellow quest
it is but this is what happens with no choice
only doing it for the blasted prophecy
smoky oasis
My current progress https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610827422580998145/675356325970051082/unknown.png
for some reason I just can't win with other weapons
mellow quest
died to dad
smoky oasis
especially the rail, not only its slow but I always lose to hades last minute
smoky oasis
losing to dad feels bad, like u wasted 30 mins
mellow quest
it's always the summons when the build is basically trash
karmic ginkgo
i still cant unlock than cause he doeesnt show up at the house in my games
mellow quest
whittling hades down with a bad build isn't so bad outside of that
smoky oasis
I don't feel any rush to go for 32 heats though
just gonna slowly moving up 1 at a time for each weapon
although pretty surprised that I have unlocked almost everything this early
sacred idol
@mellow quest Were you doing 2 heat with No Choice?
Because I tried it and also died to dad
Wasn't even the summons, it was just getting outspun on range
also being on guan
mellow quest
yeah, it's the last condition for the prophecy
i rolled super terrible on adamant rail
only got an attack boon and was Artemis, and the modifier was on the low end
not even +50% dmg
sacred idol
What's that total?
mellow quest
33
sacred idol
why bother with Budget Cuts?
mellow quest
because i like the restriction and allocating the points based on the weapon and starting keepsake somewhat
sacred idol
hmm
lament coral
you lose 2 defiances for the price of 1 heat, not to mention all rarity boosters and rerolls
mellow quest
yep
sacred idol
so I could get exactly 32 safely by removing BC
mellow quest
still find it more engaging than turning off the decision making with boons
sacred idol
How broken is double Overtime?
mellow quest
it's tough
lament coral
depends on the weapon
mellow quest
the jump from 20->40 feels a lot bigger than 0 -> 20
sacred idol
oh lmao, wait, that affects bosses, right...?
hollow sorrel
Erm, I have all three defiances, even at 2,000 darkness
lament coral
affects all enemies
mellow quest
defiances are 30 -> 500 -> 1,000 in cost right
lament coral
you kept 1530 darkness in your defiances?
sacred idol
so Hades is on crack and Asterius is undodgeable?
sacred idol
well, nearly
lament coral
or use a shield
mellow quest
asterius can actually hit you with his normal attacks on overtime
sacred idol
but I mean without interrupting him
mellow quest
rather than only just the rush
sacred idol
tfw I get hit by his normal attacks anyway
I feel like I'll straight up end up relying on god mode for 32.
obtuse tapir
that 33 heat setup seems BRUTAL
mellow quest
i've had more than a handful of runs end to Extreme Measures Asterius spin to win
obtuse tapir
but that looks ugh
mellow quest
and yes it is brutal but it's brutal in ways that I enjoy, rather than just turning off mechanics like making decisions with boons, eleminating health recovery, ending a run because you were 10 seconds too slow
etc
obtuse tapir
what's your tips on tight deadline?
Whenever I start a run
the timer usually gets in somewhere between 35:00 ~ 45:00
smoky oasis
scout first 3 rooms
obtuse tapir
so I never tried going for it except for once
smoky oasis
if you get nothing, reset
obtuse tapir
(I died in elysium in that run)
mellow quest
depends on the weapon and rounding, sometimes even just grabbing 1 pom upgrade over something else is huge for your output
smoky oasis
under time constraint u actually need some useful boons to proceed
obtuse tapir
even with decent dps I felt like it takes too much time to deal with +HP, +shield enemies
plus +60% amount
smoky oasis
yea but without time limit u can kite them forever
mellow quest
ambushing spawns is a big part of it too
and finding a way to zone enemies
some weapons need a boon to do that, while stuff like the gaun aspect spear does that as part of its kit
smoky oasis
budget cut, no choice and tight deadline are the worst 3
I don't like playing handicapped at all
obtuse tapir
I used to like budget cut back when Asphodel was the last biome
mellow quest
7 minutes is too low for Elysium and Styx for most builds
mellow quest
9 is just there so I don't just kite everything forever because that's optimal
obtuse tapir
unless I can use rerolls for an already presented boon choices
mellow quest
you can't reroll presented choices
obtuse tapir
yup
mellow quest
just chamber rewards
obtuse tapir
that's why I don't go for no choice
I'm trying to say if that was possible no choice might had some chance
but absolute no for the current state
obtuse tapir
basically destroys a very core aspect of roguelikeness
smoky oasis
I really think they should remove it
mellow quest
it's my least favorite design decision in the entire game
obtuse tapir
truly
obtuse tapir
could've been something like
your boons become more likely to be common or something
the current state is just trash
versed tide
tight deadline + less choice + customs really limits your options
mellow quest
even just removing 1 of the choices is brutal, I am struggling on 2 heat just to put together something that is remotely cohesive for the prophecy
smoky oasis
maybe we should put in feedback
mellow quest
keep getting all the way to the end and just not having damage for the Hades fight
obtuse tapir
someone else already did
smoky oasis
these are the few contract conditions that most players find un-fun
obtuse tapir
that feedback got a lot of 👍 s
mellow quest
I like Budget Cuts but the values go too low
versed tide
increased shop cost as well reduces your options
shops already have the "no choices" curse since darkness comes uninvited in the shop/pool
mellow quest
if the +15 gold urns weren't a thing I would not be using convenience fee
obtuse tapir
I can accept that one though, it's more like "hey you've been choosing two among these seven, now please choose only one"
versed tide
coins are not balanced
obtuse tapir
yup that's true
versed tide
money mostly comes from:
-killing enemies
-breaking pots
coins as a room option is very underwhelming
obtuse tapir
no reason to go for coin rewards really
even in the base game with +0% cost increase
versed tide
gem rooms are only 5 more gold than random pot
mellow quest
125 -> 175 but rarer to see the room. and elite fights should sometimes offer double heart and coin alternatives
like at the end tunnels
or rebalance shop prices more
but then there's the swarm of gold you get from urns/enemy drops
it's a bit all over the place tbh
smoky oasis
its so satisfying killing those rats
versed tide
gold should come in large majority from coin/gem and trove rewards, not random drops
then it becomes a conscious choice
mellow quest
troves are one of the things that fight against tight deadline as a mechanic
versed tide
also the fact that hp/gold gain from darkness/gem rooms doesn't scale with elite difficulty
mellow quest
you can't really be doing both in most runs
versed tide
tight deadline lvl2 isn't balanced
smoky oasis
tight deadline 2 only works if you have nothing else in other categories
versed tide
you can be punished at random for not having the right build or facing the wrong rooms
also forces you to skip a lot of events
at least TD 1 leaves you enough time but punishes you for being greedy
smoky oasis
This part about time is problematic
because time required is inversely proportional to the difficulty
sacred idol
One thing I said before is that Tight Deadline should grant bonus time for faster floor clears on lower
smoky oasis
so they can't just leave a fixed time
sacred idol
OR just make it overall time limit
mellow quest
there's also a lot of variance in styx with how lucky you are with getting the sack on 7 minutes
smoky oasis
I think they can just record the global average time of that specific heat
mellow quest
i gave up on 7 because of 4th and 5th tunnels and then having like 1/3rd of Dad's health left when time expires
smoky oasis
then have to perform better than 50% people to pass
mellow quest
also the shop counts time against you constantly and the room is pretty large
going to make purchases in there sucks
sacred idol
That'd eventually accrete into lowering times gradually...
Or raising them as people do worse, I guess
Actually. Pause timers for non combat rooms maybe?
smoky oasis
after enemy dead
mellow quest
some of the non combat rooms already pause time
sacred idol
Huh. Then all of them should
smoky oasis
just check if there's any alive enemy, none = pause
mellow quest
you can chill with Bouldy
smoky oasis
shouldn't be room specific
sacred idol
suggest that, that's good
versed tide
if they want deadline to be a thing, actually integrate it into the game
time troves, buying time in shop
at least for this modifier
mellow quest
what if collecting darkness rewards added to time in Tight Deadlines
mellow quest
so now shop darkness isn't a whiff
sacred idol
Feedback that now
mellow quest
and darkness troves do that
versed tide
darkness shouldn't be a thing in shops anyway
smoky oasis
oh wait how about unused time in previous stages can carry over
mellow quest
just be faster 4Head
sacred idol
it's as if people think 7:00 on 32 is reliably possible or something
smoky oasis
lol people are delusional
sacred idol
Steroid meat? You mean I'm the only loser who has to grab the super hydralite or the death defiances?
on 3 heat
mellow quest
the health regen is the right pick sometimes even at -75%
smoky oasis
ask them to clear styx with sack in last room
smoky oasis
just that alone will kill u 99% of the time
sacred idol
getting hit in the sack
mellow quest
i've actually been using bone hourglass lately
make well buffs last 11 encounters ez
untold quiver
You're complaining about the time limit on 32 heat? The game is supposed to be near unbearable at that point...that's the whole point
sacred idol
"near" is the key word
not "pure room RNG can screw you out of the last 28 minutes of gameplay"
smoky oasis
I believe its more up to luck than skill at that point
sacred idol
^
mellow quest
7 minutes is just a tad too low on average for Elysium and outright too low for Styx on most builds if the sack is in the 4th or 5th room
which you have 0 control over
sacred idol
no amount of git gud compensates for just not having the numbers.
untold quiver
Yeah, but it's a Roguelike, sometimes you can't win
mellow quest
the dead end, non elite Styx rooms are easily the longest rooms to clear in the game
they're huge
hollow sorrel
Yeah, I would have like all the defiances, but maybe like 1 cast crystal, 30% boiling blood, or whatever it took to keep the defiances and extra dash
versed tide
32 heat is no fun, but not because it's too challenging
combination of deadline + less choices + customs + shop costs
hollow sorrel
But “sometimes you can’t win” really shouldn’t be a mandatory trait of a roguelike
sacred idol
Losing by pure nonsense at the VERY END of a run isn't mandatory OR hugely desirable design in a roguelike
or, well, losing by pure nonsensical bs at all
roguelike doesn't mean unfair
untold quiver
Did you ever play Rogue? It was certainly unfair
hollow sorrel
Some people had amazingly long won streaks on the original roguelikes, and I don’t think I ever played a game of necrodancer, gungeon, or dead cells, where I felt the game was actually not-winnable due to rng
sacred idol
I played a lot of Nethack.
hollow sorrel
Nethack
sacred idol
And that's true, but this isn't specifically a pure roguelike
smoky oasis
There's a difference between losing because you are not good enough and losing because you didn't get lucky enough
sacred idol
and I don't think "the original game had it" is ever a rational justification for keeping what is, frankly, bad design
untold quiver
I'm all for an adjustment on the time but I wouldn't be in favor of "earning" more time then it's not a deadline
hollow sorrel
They could just tone down some of the third biome rooms
mellow quest
2500 darkness lets you max everything except favor/pride/rerolls and a death defiance charge
sacred idol
I... what?
hollow sorrel
Having small chariots spawn over a 30 second period should count as two monster waves
oblique jasper
2500 maxes that? where did my other 5900 go XD
smoky oasis
deadline should be for the whole run
sacred idol
what
smoky oasis
doesn't make sense to have 7 mins for all 4 stages
hollow sorrel
And the HP of the Minotaur miniboss is way too high compared to soulcatcher miniboss
versed tide
it's easier to "time" 7 minutes over a level than 28 over a whole run
hollow sorrel
No; deadline should be biome specific, but they should fix the third biome
The first two biomes are perfectly fine
sacred idol
@oblique jasper Apparently the last Defiance is so expensive, it covers everything else...
hollow sorrel
And the last biome is fine if you don’t get whacked with bad sack rng
oblique jasper
ah
untold quiver
No other restriction in the pact is alterable once you start I don't believe dead line should be either
sacred idol
I ran my one Budget Cuts fates run without knowing this.
"It hasn't been done so it shouldn't be done"
That's not a strong argument
so far all the reasoning I've seen from you is "well, it wasn't there before"
rather than is it fun, is it intuitive, is it genuine challenge or just artificial difficulty
untold quiver
I literally said I'd be in favor of a time adjustment
sacred idol
Just adding more time wouldn't make it interesting
oblique jasper
i see everyone talking about 32 heat runs, and here i am struggling with 1 heat XD
untold quiver
But not being able to extend
smoky oasis
I find other pacts really fun and enticing to play with, like more enemies, more attacks, boss skills etc.
sacred idol
I do 100% agree that the third biome is overtuned as hell though.
That said
Styx enemies are ALSO relatively overtuned
smoky oasis
But when it comes to No choice and Tight deadline I dread about them
sacred idol
Some of those guys are just as ludicrously, excessively tanky as Elysium guys
smoky oasis
totally un-fun and anti-rougelike
mellow quest
my name is butterfly ball and I'm here to eat 10,000 damage
sacred idol
chunky elite rats
ah yes, butterfly ball, the miniboss that's tankier than a boss
Unrelated: TIL Chaos boons are completely random even if the entire rest of the seed is identical
you can Give Up, rerun, and get the same stuff with a less craptastic chaos
versed tide
the fact that "take X damage when using move" basically reads as "don't use the move"
sacred idol
oh, huh, I didn't get the same third room. weird.
mellow quest
meta upgrades are irrelevant
sacred idol
Yeah the damage ones feel a little harsh
also, 'obscure room rewards' is always too damn long
oblique jasper
i don't pick those boons most of the time unless the others are crappy
sacred idol
It's not always okay, because it outright disables certain aspects
versed tide
but in effect that's what it does
sacred idol
No Attack functionally breaks Chaos Shield, for instance
smoky oasis
I used cast for 3 rooms when I had that lol
sacred idol
The only thing left is miserable basic shield throw
versed tide
you'd be weaker for X number of rooms but it would still be useable
smoky oasis
then cry
sacred idol
By the way, what boon should I take on Explosive spear throw, Zagreus aspect?
naive tusk
So... I felt like a torero with Asterius as I chilled him and made him run around in circles inside Festive Fog with Scintillating Feast 😆
sacred idol
I have Epic Frost Strike and Rare Frost Flourish, not sure if Chill is a good one on explosive spear
@smoky oasis the only time I ever have an issue is just - bosses, exactly. rip
Scintillating Feast - more like Festive Pog
Amirite
sacred idol
What kind of Special boon should I try for.
smoky oasis
u have status effect?
naive tusk
Didn’t you have Frost Flourish already?
smoky oasis
if not can just grab poison or doom
naive tusk
Ooohh
sacred idol
Only one boon, my Chaos is now +75% Special Damage
smoky oasis
nice dmg
naive tusk
Ares Special is good with the spear, I think
smoky oasis
go for artemis
sacred idol
so now my first boon is a choice of Epic chill attack or Rare chill special.
Chill special, since it'd be better at stacking?
this is my first god though, so I may end up with craptastic special boon later
smoky oasis
attack
sacred idol
eh, it's No Choice. I may just get aped out of this run anyway.
naive tusk
I’d say go for chill attack then spam special once you stack 10 chills at bosses lol
smoky oasis
chill special does nothing
mellow quest
im only playing no choice because it's one of the last prophecies to finish
untold quiver
Darkness is very important.....in the beginning
sacred idol
Fates.
mellow quest
i've lost 3 2 heat runs with it on, first one I choked by eating laser
smoky oasis
@mellow quest Well, let's just say, you have no choice
sacred idol
While I'm at SUPER low heats on some weapons
mellow quest
second and third I had no synergy, no statuses and no damage
sacred idol
Why don't I just go ahead and finish the worst penalties first?
rofl natural 120 damage special though
Aphro would be acceptable if I roll it...
naive tusk
Pick the Adamant Arrowhead and cross fingers lol
smoky oasis
aphro, arte, posseidon are great
sacred idol
Not gonna lie? Once I actually get through all my heats properly, like, all 20/20/20/20/20 and a 32 (with god mode because I'm bad and hate super hard difficulty spikes), I'm gonna go back down and just play on, what, 10 heat?
I like the game in its base state more than with the masochism turned up
naive tusk
Well, back to the hot beasts at Elyssium welp
sacred idol
also, the other problem is that my god keepsakes are mostly trash rank oof
naive tusk
Gotta rank them up, mate
smoky oasis
just grind ur favourite weapons
This is mine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610827422580998145/675356325970051082/unknown.png
latent badger
How does one get on the feedback or suggestions channel? They just say I don't have permission to post there but surely there is some way to acquire permission.
lusty tusk
I've had the game crash on me three runs in a row and all of them were ones where I got to Elysium and one in which I got till the last stage
sacred idol
For the Sisyphus keepsake, do I gift to Sisyphus or Bouldy?
lusty tusk
It's really disheartening when the game crashes on you after you spent so much time on one run
smoky oasis
@latent badger go to #bot-commands
sacred idol
And does Bouldy have a tracker eventually?
latent badger
@smoky oasis ty
sacred idol
nectar, and there's apparently a chance for a boon called heart of stone
a tiny random amount of DR, some speed, or a pure joke that does nothing
basically spend nectar for a meme boon
dusky steeple
haha nice
sacred idol
hm, Demeter's Aid or Snow Burst...