doesn't make it good
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
native ether
30% Movement Speed and increased Dash Distance is surprisingly helpful at getting you out of the way of attacks.
fiery shale
poor stygius
fallow niche
literally the least useful stat of all weapons
shrewd topaz
I'll just try my luck for that 3x Dash
native ether
And (though I would need to check this) I don't think it increases your dash movement speed, so it actually gives you more i-frames
karmic coyote
wait there is increase dash distance now?
fallow niche
yeah zag aspect got that too now
it doesnt really change the fact that it does the least damage of all weapons tho still
and is far less defensive than any shield or ranged weapon
karmic coyote
but zooming around is fun
shrewd topaz
Would also not recommend the decrease dash distance on the hammer for sword
native ether
least damage? Nah that goes to the poor bow.
fallow niche
Lmao bow has plenty 
You need to play bow more
Chiron literally poops out damage
So does Hera
And even basic bow has crit
fiery shale
just need to use dash strike a lot more on the bow than anything else
native ether
I play bow a lot. Only weapon where the game feels like its an utter slog.
fiery shale
but yeah it does feel like garbage
karmic coyote
Hera is unbeatable at burst damage
fallow niche
Its definitely slower, but it has damage once you get past all the time it takes to pull the string
fiery shale
it needs boons to be playable
native ether
Hera's burst damage is great, but if you don't have good cast boons? You're not getting much out of it
native ether
Yeah, which is why the sword is good. I can continually force Merciful End 
fallow niche
i have beaten the game many times with a basic rarity cast boon on hera, its not hard at all
karmic coyote
dio, aphrodite, athena casts are all great, if you can get hunting blades then it's easy game
fallow niche
yikes if you need to force merciful end to make sword good then its really, really bad
also no wonder you think its good
do that on bow
you'll have a better time
shrewd topaz
Chiron and Hera are really strong tbh
fallow niche
oh yeah
hera is super underrated nowadays too
the demeter duo with dionysus is nuts
native ether
if you need to force casts to make Hera bow viable, then forcing Merciful End on the sword should be little difference. Don't even need Merciful End though. Take Athena to start, then take Artemis or Aphrodite. If you run into any of their duos, you're set.
fallow niche
force casts
Thats like saying 'force attack boons'
there isn't a comparison
you have no clue what you're talking about
native ether
If you need to force a specific cast build to appear on the bow to ensure you win the game with the Hera Aspect, then needing to force a particular attack, dash, or special on the sword to ensure winning is a fairly similar situation, no?
considering those are all tier 1 boons
fallow niche
Nobody said you need a specific cast build to beat the game with it
In fact I literally said all but one cast is good
You're reaching really hard for this here to say 'bow is bad'
native ether
I mean I do find that the bow is bad. I find its damage is really slow, the timing is awkward when it swaps between dash and basic attacks, and the Aspects are underwhelming unless you've gotten a fair amount of ranks into them.
It could also be a playstyle difference. I'm a very aggressive player. Bow is far too slow to suit me. (Hence sword) but I feel people are really reaching to say the sword is bad. Its not hard to actually play it and avoid damage, and its damage is not as low as people want to claim it is.
fallow niche
You can do a good Hera build with only one rank in it (most of its builds don't really care about rank at all).
And you have to realize if you genuinely feel that people aren't giving sword a chance then you also have to take note that you may also be doing the same thing for bow.
I have almost every aspect with a 32 heat win, and have like a dozen won runs with each aspect independently almost, and I have tried to speedrun with every aspect at this point (with one of my runs 3rd on the leaderboard) and from my experience: sword needs buffs. Its not worthless by any means, but its definitely the most in need of buffs. This is my personal take, but I also feel like my experience gives me at least a little bit of clout.
Gonna double down and really clarify here that no aspect is incapable of beating the game, probably on any heat even (at least up to 32). That's not really what I'm getting at here.
karmic coyote
i think Hades has done a great job at balancing so there is no need to downgrade any weapon, just keep enjoying what you like, bow and spear is my bread and butter but sometimes i want to have fun with other weapons too
fallow niche
I think absolutely no weapon needs nerfs, just some need buffs to match the powerlevel and fun of the existing "best" weapons.
karmic coyote
lv1 chiron bow too op pls nerf
shrewd topaz
I agree. Ironically I have the most fun with sword and spear. I'd like to see the sword reward you for all in/aggressive playstyle but I don't have a good idea of what that should be yet
mild crag
All it rewards you with is taking a lot of damage for no reason
native ether
I won't say no to buffs to my favorite weapons, I just really don't think they're necessary, and I'd hate to see the sword get a huge buff, only for everyone to freak out its the best weapon, and then get nerfed again.
fallow niche
I think Nemesis already does a good job at that, I think specifically the special speed should be increased or made so that damage doesn't stagger it.
Zag aspect needs something to make it more worthwhile or interesting though. Honestly if they want the speed route they can either just let it have more dashes or instead of the 25% speed + dash distance it gives, it should be straight up 100% since it has no bearing on damage.
mild crag
Pour one out for old double nova
fallow niche
@native ether Its up to us to give SG feedback for what we want to see in the game. I think their job at nerfing Chaos Shield was wonderful and you should put more faith in them.
Double Nova's current state is a travesty and we should force them to revisit it
Shouldn't reduce area at all imho, so many other powerful aspects and hammers exist now it makes no sense for it to be as tiny as it is atm
manic ermine
I thought double nova was too strong before
karmic coyote
i guess it was strong if you could actually hit anyone with it
fallow niche
Double Nova was too strong before when the game had so much less in it
And then they nerfed it to what it is now... Awful
I can hardly hit anything with it now
Its shorter than the sword's jab range
karmic coyote
killing baby chariots with double nova, big brain strategy
fallow niche
I think their range is larger than yours at that point
Hey, at least they added the 200% backstab damage one! 
Such a boring and useless hammer upgrade
karmic coyote
exactly, i intentionally die everytime to meet Hypnos again
manic ermine
it would be better if you could get the bonus on dash attack
fallow niche
You don't need to, you just need the weapon to be less bad
If you have to come up with a whole incentives list to make people play it then maybe there's a reason they aren't
Just buff all the hammers and Zag aspect I think is all that needs to happen
Nemesis has a sick buff
native ether
agreed there, double nova is useless without super nova
I really like Double Edge for my sword hammers these days
Double Edge + Crits/Poison is insane
fallow niche
Yeah Double Edge is the best one
native ether
especially if you can throw extra dashes on it
fallow niche
Hammers I think are the biggest reason why sword is behind other weps imo
So many just do... nothing
fiery shale
cursed blade sucks
dusky steeple
got a hammer on first room with sword, it was so underwhelming
fiery shale
70% is too much on spear
fallow niche
Yeah god that one needs a whole massive rework
fiery shale
it's way too much on sword, esp for a daedlus upgrade
dusky steeple
I tried the dash strike double hit and it had...zero effect
dusky steeple
Ah, I am a noob confirmed 😄
fallow niche
Besides the special range + damage
dusky steeple
I still fondly remember my duo legendary poseidon/zeus sword run
where I just hit y and everything bounced round the room and died
fallow niche
But sword special builds are nonexistent because its the only good hammer for is the issue
manic ermine
I can't justify taking cursed slash because I need all the damage I can get
karmic coyote
flurry slash ain that bad either, but it just a worse version of flurry jab
dusky steeple
I just completed my first heat 3 run on sword, but I basically only used it to dislodge casts
Artemis cast OP in that very specific build, it would seem
fallow niche
Artemis cast Poseidon Sword is one of the best builds in the game
copper citrus
Flurry slash is insane with some auto/special combos
mild crag
fallow niche
dusky steeple
I watched a streamer use it and was inspired @copper citrus
Poor old final boss didn't know what hit them
copper citrus
with athena attack, exposure, and nemesis aspect you can phase Hades in 3 seconds with 1 reflect and 1 dodge behind him
fallow niche
Anyway I need to sleep, may everyone's runs be blessed with good boons and goodnight
karmic coyote
sleep tight don't let the bed bugs bite
manic ermine
Oh god, I didn't pick Athena in a totg room and since when do the invincible enemies now have a radial damage aura.
dusky steeple
@manic ermine discovered that yesterday. was painful. Armoured witches too 😦
mild crag
Since they removed deflect
And gave them radial damage instead
I think it's a good change
This post sponsored by the rail gang
karmic coyote
who even needs rail gang anymore when you already have bow gang
karmic coyote
yeah i lied about being a hestia believer, it was always chiron and hera 
copper citrus
NEVER disappoint Athena
Other gods you can manage
Poseidon may be annoying too, tho
Because enemies randomly do tidal dash
karmic coyote
I feel like demeter is the easiest
mild crag
@karmic coyote 
frosty pier
uuuhhh is my heat too low, or Athena is just annoying more than dangerous?
mild crag
What heat tho
It's only a problem in a small room with a lot of spawns
Since they just coat the area in damage areas
rotund wagon
angery Athena is hell on Elysium
native ether
er sorry
fixation
Longing is probably one of the worst duos in the game unfortunately. Damage falls off too fast
rotund wagon
idk longing is gonna be beast when I have bossfight
native ether
Nope, Longing will quarter the repeat effect every time
rotund wagon
ok then
native ether
assuming you apply doom often enough, its better damage to take the charm effect for CC and general room clear
native ether
your doom is applied on attack, so you'll be applying it often enough to make curse of longing unnecessary
rotund wagon
true
native ether
unhealthy fixation is a really good boon, its not as helpful on bosses, but it really helps your general wave clear
native ether
if there are no other enemies to attack I believe yes
rotund wagon
nice
native ether
Charm lasts for less time against boss enemies specifically btw
rotund wagon
well that is an obvious rule patch
I am suprised that bosses aren't immune to charm tbh
native ether
Also minor tangent: Sword + Demeter + Double Edge is actually super good
Demeter in general is really good on high heat because she nullifies Forced Overtime
native ether
No Artemis right?
rotund wagon
No artemis
native ether
If you had an Artemis boon id say chase Ares for Hunting Blades.
Since you don't, Demeter has side effects that are more worth it (increased healing, Rare Crop, etc)
rotund wagon
alright
native ether
Demeter's wrath is imo better as well
native ether
Though since you have Aphro boons I'd look for an Aphro wrath if you can find it. Shreds bosses.
I mean if you take Demeter Cast and Artemis appears, that's a good duo too.
rotund wagon
I still have 4 fated, could try to fish for Artemis after I take Ares 🤔
native ether
What biome are you in?
rotund wagon
as the screenshot, the lava-y biome
only about 4-5 rooms in
I wish there was a room counter
that would help the process much easier
native ether
There is actually. Check the menu. There should be a "Chamber Counter"
rotund wagon
ok I guess I'll screw myself then
native ether
Counts total number of chambers you are into a run. For reference, I believe Asphodel always ends at 26?
native ether
It's definitely somewhere I have it on my save. I don't have my game open atm otherwise I'd look for it. :/
Asphodel is always 11 rooms long. (16-26). Out of those, 4 of those are forced into certain rooms (Opening Vista, Shop/Free Room before Boss, Boss, and Stairway afterwards) which gives you a total of 7 combat rooms (or other encounters) in Asphodel, if I'm doing my math right.
Furies are always 14 right, and Tartarus ends at 15? I'm not going insane and losing track of numbers right
mild crag
You can get an extra room if you take Chaos before the pre boss room
Since chaos skips a room but you can skip the pre boss room
native ether
We pretend that doesn't happen because it's confusing and the game accounts for it somehow by removing a later room, cause I've never seen someone go over 70 chambers.
mild crag
I've seen "furthest chamber 71"
rotund wagon
anyhow
native ether
Well then, never seen that. But if it's possible, game is weird.
native ether
I suppose you could get "Furthest Chamber 73" if you take 3 Chaos Gates at the right times.
Which is mildly amusing.
I would think the game would auto adjust itself to prevent you from being able to have more rooms. /Shrug
copper citrus
^
B gives you all info about current run bonuses, including stacking keepsakes and/or boons, hammers, timed bonuses
copper citrus
Is fine 
I learned that on my 10th run or so
I know a lad who had like 50 and never knew that(he has a remarcable memory tho)
mild crag
@rotund wagon you're doin a fine job
is not thonknatos
copper citrus
shrewd topaz
turbid needle
A little complaint about the Hera bow is that shot Casts will often end up in places where you can't retrieve them, behind walls, in the middle of rivers out of magnetic range. Especially vs a boss this can be very frustrating when playing under time
turbid needle
What does curse of longing do?
mild crag
Makes doom keep striking weak enemies
But it's not very good because the damage falls off so badly
Stops about after four hits because it runs out of damage
It strikes for 25% of the previous strike
So it diminishes real quick
gaunt crystal
Question,, are u supposed to take environment damage while interacting with the shop?
turbid needle
What do you mean Looms
A bomb from an enemy that died or standing on lava or?
or a trap!
Cause a "shop" I tihnk you mean a well of charon?
Extra mini shop in a map
mild crag
That doesn't sound right looms
turbid needle
Yeah you will burn
gaunt crystal
I only noticed by the time i was reading the second item
turbid needle
Same with traps
mild crag
You become invincible when interacting with boons so it should be the same with shops I'd think
turbid needle
hm, perhaps it's not intentional
tall smelt
Hi,is this texchannel a good place to ask some questions about the game?
shrewd topaz
Sure
tall smelt
I'm sort of new to the game, and I'm really struggling to get my first win. I see some other people getting amazing combos, killing bosses in like 5 sec while I lose every time on hades or boss before him. Any usefull tips I could use to finally make it to the top?
turbid needle
Its a great place to ask questions : )
mild crag
First don't worry about what other players are doing since they've been playing for ages and know all the broken combos and how to get them 
turbid needle
And! Preperation is half the work, The first time beating the game is the hardest. You have the fewest tools and you ain't that familiar with the game so it's natural to struggle
So keep struggling, find some new gods. Try making use of your gifts and collect some keepsakes, try to figure out what god powers you enjoy, I also feel like shield is a very very solid starter choice. That was my first hades kill
frosty pier
If you need a win without specifics... Try to gather Ares Cast. You will need Ares's cast + everything that is related to that cast from Ares+ 1 random boon from Artemis and a duo boon Hunting blades. Remember that you can force gods with keepsakes between zones.
mild crag
For some good keepsakes to take against Hades, I think skelly's is the best
tall smelt
@frosty pier I did something simillar,I mean I had the duo boon but rest of my boons were kinda meh so it didn't end well
frosty pier
You can spice in up with a bit of luck from Chaos.
shrewd topaz
@tall smelt The first step would be to focus on getting shadow gems and raising your mirror, learn the baseline mechanics of the game and experiment with boons. Stay mobile and understand some weapons are easier to play with and more forgiving such as shield. Be patient and keep at it and you'll keep improving
tall smelt
@shrewd topaz I have mirror unlocked untill upgrades with rarity of boons, all before are maxed out. Also I'm missing only like 3 keepsakes. I'm trying shield as we speak. I got epic demeter special and I'm not sure if it's worth playing around that or just have it and focus on something else.
That's the other thing I'm not really sure about. Even if I get epic boon, I'm not always sure(most of the time I'm not) if it's worth playing around it or just keep it and look for something better
shrewd topaz
Well privileged status really goes a long way, so being able to attack something with something like aphodites weakness(while reducing their damage potential), then using your special to incur a secondary effect like poison, doom, or even cold will really boost your damage. From there just focus on reducing how much damage your taking. I would also try to look at your runs and figure out what your weakpoint is. Are you getting whittled down before the final boss? Is it specifically the mechanics of the last boss ect.
tall smelt
I guess it's different every run. Sometimes I go up to final boss with 225hp and two dd. Sometimes I lose 3 dd on hydra. Sometimes I lose 2 dd on some random room in elysium cuz it's so much harder that previous floors.
shrewd topaz
As for should I take this boon or not, I'd say don't be afraid to experiment and see how you like it. It's kinda like how people will assign rooms to gold value, boon being worth more than a pom for example. But if you're still having a hard time, I would stick to the basics and ask yourself will this increase my damage, or defense significantly then go from there. Sometimes that extra boon just turns out to be a wash
(sorry for the paragraphs)
tall smelt
Problem is not really knowing boons from different gods I guess then. Since it's kinda hard to determine whether it's gonna help me or not If I don't know the synergies/boons :/
shrewd topaz
Some gods have better offensive and defensive capabilities others give you more mobility or utility. The fact that you've made it to the last boss tells me mechanically you're decent, so either it's a mix of partial bad luck or decision making from room to room or just consistency.
tall smelt
Like right now, I have to choose between pom, hammer and chaos. No clue which one is best tho <shrug>
shrewd topaz
Hammer more than likely
tall smelt
I thought so,good to know that's I'm not that dumb
shrewd topaz
I think you're smart, you just are probably overthinking it. Pom can be good if there's one specific boon for all of your damage(which is rare). Hammer is going to more than likely add the most damage/utility, and chaos while has the potential for good will take away your health and potentially give you negatives and a positive. I'd try to go under the mindset of what's the lesser evil (keep in mind there's someone who's always going to go chaos, and can still win)
In other words, Hammer is the most likely to benefit you, chaos is the 2nd most likely, and POM is the weakest impact
Health is great, but it has diminishing impact on you compared to picking coin gives you versatility to spend money at shops, between a god and shops, would that boon cost you 300 gold
digital flower
Hammer is the rarest of the three
Also you can only get two hammers per run
So almost always go for hammer
tall smelt
Also you can only get two hammers per run
@digital flower That's good to know
digital flower
an early hammer can dictate your build too
shrewd topaz
^ being special heavy or attack based for example
digital flower
so the first one is super important imo
tall smelt
I guess I'm special based now, since I took that my shield special can bounce on 3 more enemies :/
shrewd topaz
I like Sudden rush( bull rush charges faster) and Explosive return (60 damage on return from throw), I've found the bouncing between enemies increases the time I can't block and can take damage, compared to chaos shield aspect where I get a bunch of extra dps for free.
digital flower
don't force yourself into a move you don't like though
for instance I almost never play the bow special except to proc weak or the likes since I don't like it
and I tend to avoid hammer that targets bow's special as a result
shrewd topaz
Have you tried Chiron yet ^? Jw
digital flower
I mostly play Zag
shrewd topaz
But he's right, at some point it's more important to have fun
digital flower
I love crits
tall smelt
I don't yet have the option to choose,I assume that's available after beating the game atleast once
shrewd topaz
I like the special when it's single target dps, not a big fan of the default with the wide AOE
You can spend titan blood on your aspects now I'm pretty sure, but I would wait until you really find the playstyle you like
Primary way of getting titan blood is farming higher heat levels, which makes the game harder
tall smelt
I don't have the option of heat levels I think tho
I have some titan blood, like 3 or 4
shrewd topaz
You will once you beat the last boss
tall smelt
oof
shrewd topaz
(trust me not as bad as it sounds) , and I can still flop a run sometimes
tall smelt
One more thing,I have yarn of ariadne I bought in this little room in between floors, and after first room I can buy another one. How this will work, my next boon wil have rarity upgraded twice or my two next boons will have upgraded rarity
shrewd topaz
I believe it's next 2 boons
turbid needle
where did theseus get 2 miniguns
shrewd topaz
Ancient Greek Craigslist
turbid needle
its actually less annoying than the not punishment fight
chipping down his shield was giving me cancer
shrewd topaz
Feel like it's easier dodging the chariot, vs having to place myself behind a pillar while being charged at by the bull of minos
turbid needle
speaking of which
i love aspect of chiron with the double status
you get the +4 from the hammer
and then your bow becomes a gattling gun
11 homing arrows
kind of wish i could repeat that run
shrewd topaz
Yeah, especially if you have something that benefits from quick stacks like deme
tall smelt
I wanted to do something like this, with the railgun, infinity ammo and the artemis boon that sends and arrow after striking a foe
shrewd topaz
That sounds pretty nasty
turbid needle
hit 3 epic flourishes in a row
and a 4th normal one
everything got instashot
+150%ish from athenas special ( had backstab )
for attack i had weakness from aphrodite
and all this combined into something really strong
interesting how athena zeus and poseidon can all turn their boons into things that stack up for your favor +50%
shrewd topaz
That's what I really enjoy about this game, finding interesting ways to synergize. Especially as new content gets thrown in
digital flower
Yep that's the best thing in rogue lites, I agree
I hope we'll get way more gods and titans in the future, I expect lots of DLCs 🙂
rotund wagon
"a little time pressure" is to put it lightly lol
went from consistent ~30 mins per run to 21 min just by having the time pressure and playing ultra agressive
rotund wagon
of course the boons supported me
shrewd topaz
as many as you can I mean
rotund wagon
I went in all 6 during this run believe it or not lol
tall smelt
As I'm total newbie when it comes to fight with theseus and minotaur, I grabed zeus dash + zeus jolted, upgraded jolted to lvl 3 and grabbed demeter duo so now I just run around and they kill themselves. Pog
shrewd topaz
Yeah it's nice to watch theseus kill himself when you've got jolt running
I hope this will be your first complete
tall smelt
well I have 2 more deaths to spare, we will see
prolly gonna die on final boss tho
not rly familliar with mechanics
shrewd topaz
Well shield goes a long way but there is ||2 phases. 1st Phase, He dashes towards you, ocassionaly shoots out a projectile and will do a wide AOE sweep. It'll outline the circle right before it hits so try to dodge or block. Additionally he'll shield himself and summon enemies. Your main goal is to avoid getting hit. The higher your health/lifes left on the 1st phase the more likely you are to win. Phase 2 instead of summoning it's lasers(which the shield can block) otherwise hide behind the pillars, other then that his moveset is the same except he'll summon ghost jars that'll stun you, so try to avoid getting trapped by them. - TLDR is utilize your block as much as possible and focus more on not taking damage||
turbid needle
Does delta chamber work with concentrated fire? As in it keeps stacks between each burst
tall smelt
I guess this is it, 200hp, 3 deaths to spare, let's do this
jolly dirge
You can do it!
turbid needle
Or is it better to go for max ammo build with flurry fire?
trim snow
Stacks as in the +1 for consecutive hit?
turbid needle
Yes
trim snow
I preferred the +ammo and accuracy
turbid needle
But does delta work?
trim snow
You lose the stacks on any miss, so kind of moot with the spread
turbid needle
Yeah flurry seems the most logical but I would like to see how it would work with eris delta
tall smelt
I did it,
2 deaths
but I've done it
One thing that save my entire run
was buying demeter in last shop
and getting this boon that chills more if everyone is chilled
he was slooower
turbid needle
Nice
Time for hell mode 😈
I am so interested in trying
Start
Adamant Rail+Zagreus Aspect+Chaos trinket
Hammer
Concentrated Fire+Flurry Fire
Boons
Deadly strike while getting 2x +attack from chaos and then Aphrodite + Zeus dmg multipliers
turbid needle
that's 8th skull done
chiron bow pulling overtime
who else here farming titan blood for the new weapon/aspects ?
sacred folio
I'm kinda at the same place: all weapons at 6-7 heat level for the bounties
trim snow
15/8/7/6/6
sacred folio
But I hesitate to invest all my remaining Titan Blood into some weapons I'm not sure if I can handle
dusky steeple
the heat concept is odd compared to other roguelites I like
the choice is a bit odd. I'm sure there is "optimal" heat building that could be explored
hollow sorrel
“Optimal” heat building is sometimes depending on weapon aspect. For example, the “enemies ignore 2 hits” punishment is easy with the Eris rail because it rapid fires so much, but I actively avoid it on the Hestia rail because it rapid fires so little.
dusky steeple
are there any streamers worth watching for general strategy ideas for hades?
I remember discovering Jorbs for StS and it was a revalation. I went from occasionally lucky to consistently good at the game very quickly thanks to his conceptual videos
hollow sorrel
Daddy degrand has a wide variety of different builds. He’s not always trying to pick the optimal builds, and will instead sometimes does random themes
dusky steeple
Any idea how popular hades is in terms of players?
azure atlas
dad is hard
dusky hull
I've already asked this, but no one seems to know: does decay work on Hades now, on the current patch?
Because I remember it not working before.
dusky hull
?
dense locust
Man, aspect of eris with rocket bomb and cluster bomb is lots of fun
What is decay again
what hangover is now? I forget
pastel jolt
decay is the effect from demeter's "killing freeze" boon, hangover is dionysus's damage-over-time effect
dense locust
Ah okay thanks
Blast area damage from stacking 10 chill damages the target as well as an unspecified aoe?
turbid needle
Guys
How long do I need to practice the lyre?
My skills got me to play diablo II-esque sounds so far but how often do I need to repeat to get the prophecy fulfilled lol
dusky hull
IIRC, just try to press it repeatadly until something will change, then continue it after a run. You also have to talk to Orpheus about it, he will teach you.
dense locust
I think there are 3 levels
turbid needle
But now it doesn't seem to change anymore
dusky hull
The audio files for the lyre literally have names like "lyreSUCK2" or something.
dense locust
I hope they eventually add a lot of other fun things to spend resources on, ideally things that affect the game just a lil bit
dense locust
but as it stands, eventually you just have a lot of resources
Except for gems
They have so many things that cost gems but no easy way to obtain them
dense locust
gg
dusky hull
And we still have 2 doora locked in the main hub.
dense locust
you beat the game. what will you play next?
azure atlas
you
dense locust
good lucky, im quite hard to catch
I just had a very fun and easy run with the rail
I think this will be the thing I take to max heat
or at least 32
turbid needle
Yeah Gems are tough, maybe easier if you max out chaos / gem obtain
and pos
gem runs
dense locust
You can earn gems easier if its your intention, but it's not that fun to just go on gem runs
turbid needle
I agree
dense locust
i mean its fun, but i'd rather try and get farther
turbid needle
Whats your max heat?
dense locust
Just got to 20 with the rail
turbid needle
Damn
I am 12 with shield and 10 with sword
Didnt relaly play the rest
Really dislike the rail tbh
dense locust
I was all about the sword for a while but now the rail has my heart
You really have to upgrade a given aspect to max to determine if its good or not
dense locust
Well for me, some aspects were worthless until they were lvl 4 or 5
turbid needle
Hestia is probably only exception tho
dense locust
true that doesnt apply to all of them,
sacred idol
:c I'm very sad though
turbid needle
Cause it's passive can be bypassed by hermes
sacred idol
I replaced my last Chill source and got Demeter's legendary the very next run
Now I have no more Demeter boons
turbid needle
ehe
sacred idol
I have so many second tier Demeter and no chill. RIP
self owned by the chase for Heroic rarity
dense locust
I really like Eris for the rail because you can expand into any damage source more or less
Although the ideal is special imo
turbid needle
Eris is really good in general cause Crit is really good
azure atlas
wait theres upgraded weapons?
was i not supposed to get this far with my 4th time through
dense locust
I was joking earlier incase you were taking me seriously. You have to complete the run many many times to unlock all of the glorious goodies
sacred idol
Note to self: Never, ever betray Grandma again
dusky steeple
fishing has helped gems
dense locust
yeah it has
sacred idol
also, the cast aspects work at rank 1
dusky steeple
and the odd trove with a billion gems
which makes a joke out of the standard reward of 5(?)
dusky steeple
standard rewards are all screwed up vs troves actually...
sacred idol
I wonder if some people have done Guan Yu rank 1 heat clears
dusky steeple
money = 100, or trove = 150
dense locust
I mean if you go pure gem run, you go for posiedon and chaos boons and buy a trove every chance
azure atlas
i have no idea what im doing
sacred idol
Yeah, regular rooms are just so weak
azure atlas
75max hp
dense locust
well you'll never get the full 75
dusky steeple
But in terms of the multiplier
hopes Supergiant aren't reading and decide to drop trove to 15 😂
dense locust
yeah i agree it needs a little balance
*The qpop balance update: all troves have been reduced by 75%'
turbid needle
LOL
Troves are fine imo
very fine
Just chamber rewards don't always feel great
dense locust
Yeah i kinda agree
sometimes you get wrecked trying to get a few gems
Or the worst, trying to get a lil hp and end up with a net loss
sacred idol
Things I learn on this run: Never, ever, ever betray Granny
dense locust
The aoe on her thing is insane
sacred idol
@turbid needle Does that matter if you're not maximizing deadline?
turbid needle
No. But it does if you are maximizing deadline
dense locust
I am avoiding deadline and the darkness cap until the very end
turbid needle
True 😄
pallid dagger
man, it sucks having an absolute ideal build only for it all to go south by elysium
flurry fire + swift strike epic + concentrated fire + heroic deadly strike
sacred idol
9min not so bad
pallid dagger
i will probably never be able to replicate that
sacred idol
That's like - unranked aspect with bad boons against 0 heat
so a good aspect on higher heat should be solid
dense locust
I hope they add in a secret boss that is a careless farmer that leaves tools everywhere and eats a lot of bananas
darkness cap should be raised imo
its absurdly debilitating at just 1 level
dense locust
||First level you can only have 2500 to spend. Is this a spoiler?||
turbid needle
It's not a spoiler 😛
But yeah I know that but
I have a maxed mirror atm
If I activate that heat
what happends?
Do I lose my invested darkness? Or is it taken out?
Or what's up
sacred idol
Hmm, is it ever worth buying a diamond from Charon
turbid needle
If you can spare the cash
sacred idol
It's taken back out
sacred idol
I have 1112 gold, but I also have a dio boon at high rank, a lower rank ares, and some poms to buy
eh, whatever, I don't need diamonds
turbid needle
Do the high and low rank matter in the shop? A low rank eris gave me a legendary
in shop
Anyways, I always skip diamonds. And If I know im gonna lose the run I try to sell boosn and go for titan blood
dense locust
Yeah haha ive done that a couple times
sometimes I know im gonna lose for like 15 minutes and then regret not just suiciding
other times I stick it out and some how pull out a win
sacred idol
Think it's just chance of rarity
I won, but I regret giving up grandma's chill attack
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/674255437490683905/unknown.png it was just to flex more heroics
unborn trellis
i once got 4 duos and like 2 or 3 legendaries in one run when i was hunting for the artemis duos
you can get some p ridic boon setups if you know what to aim for
pallid dagger
GUESS WHICH FOOL BEAT EXTREME MEASURES HYDRA WITHOUT TAKING A HIT
grand patrol
WOWWWWWWWW
pallid dagger
just being gud with my rail
sacred idol
unironically can't pull it off with the shield lmao
pallid dagger
that's usually me
so i'm extra proud
hell, i usually can't even beat it spotlessly with the shield
sacred idol
By the way, does everyone just straight up run -100% healing for high heats
dense locust
I just tried a 32 heat and i hated it
sacred idol
I legit can't imagine winning with that condition.
Is there any reason to do 32?
The gauge stops giving rewards at 25, right
dense locust
20
sacred idol
rofl, I get Alecto the one time I do 400% damage traps
amazing
the game REALLY wants me dead before I can farm that 8 Titan Blood
sacred idol
Oh. Dio special shield is THAT broken
dense locust
I did -75% healing and i felt pointless to get healing
sacred idol
the legendary Shield of Cheese
pallid dagger
good news fellas
i got flurry fire and concentrated fire again
deadly strike is weaker but if i can get demeter's rare crop again i might can change that
dense locust
There is 1 thing to unlock for doing 32 heat as far as I know, at least for now
I made it halfway through the second biome
sacred idol
I am... going to chicken the hell out and do it on god mode.
dense locust
Its just not as fun on 32 heat as it is on 1-20
sacred idol
Peace and tranquility it is, for that kind of ridiculously stacked deck
dense locust
But I probably need to rethink my heat choices
untold widget
yeah, ive been work-shopping the ones i use
ive been back and forth on heightened security
i definitely dont use any budget cuts, and ive been shying away from no choice as well
pallid dagger
me in the feedback channels: longspears op pls nerf
hades run i'm playing right now: longspears here to nerf you! an entire roomful! and several waves!
sacred idol
This is ridiculous. I killed myself TWICE and lost to Thanatos solely because I was a fool and took Flayed Favor too close to the boss room.
Death by greed
untold widget
which one is that?
sacred idol
For +rarity
mint vortex
@eternal stag The satyrs raise their arm over their head and stand on one foot when they're about to throw the poison darts. It couldn't really be less subtle.
sacred idol
ngl, it's kinda worth, I'm still plowing through
18 minutes clear of Elysium somehow
eternal stag
you say that, yet i haven't noticed it in forty hours 🤔
sacred idol
That animation is so fast it's ridiculously hard to react to.
naive tusk
I can attest to that. The satyrs have a windup, they will raise their arms over their head as they “gargle” then shoot about 1 second afterwards. It’s a short notice but they do that
eternal stag
i think it's subtle enough and styx gets busy enough that it could do with a rework
naive tusk
Yes, it’s subtle when the room is swarming 
untold widget
_>
mint vortex
@eternal stag Well, what kind of tell would you suggest if a total change of body position isn't enough?
sacred idol
welp I'm probably gonna lose
The tell should just be a little longer.
it's already present, but it's really quick
patent tiger
I cannot say for sure. Though I think you cannot get the Saytr Sack on your first door. I gotten it to be chosen door 2 at times, also I had moments where I got it on my last.
dim rapids
i get more confused with extreme measures triple furies than satyrs lol
at least satyrs have a sound effect
triple furies, i can't keep track of them
mint vortex
I would agree that it's quick, but that's not the same as being subtle.
eternal stag
the spitball sound is what i use because there's never enough time to be staring at satyrs when the room is busy, but what about when there are busy sound effects or someone is hard of hearing? that's my point
quick does equal subtle to a certain extent
if you have less time to notice the tell happening
sacred idol
I did not. Praise Demeter.
bright mulch
I know there's a tell, doesn't stop me from getting hit though lol
mint vortex
It might have a similar effect, but it isn't the same thing.
sacred idol
I posted new feedback to clarify. Vote on that and quit being a pedant.
You've gotten to the point of arguing over semantics for as long as it took for me to do the bloody entirety of Styx.
bright mulch
Also is it just me or can you not stop the darts coming out once they decide to shoot
Like they do the start up, you punish, there's a small gap in your offense and then when they're out of hitstun they don't have startup and just go instantly into dart volley which can't be inturrupted
This probably isn't the case but it's what it feels like lol
mint vortex
It ain't semantics, bud. It's practical. If you just tell them to make the tell less subtle, maybe they make the satyr jump up and down, but if it's still the same speed, you still won't notice it.
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/674269287476756506/unknown.png Anyway, here's a memey win, with a special appearance from the bloody boon that killed me TWICE highlighted at bottom.
You still managed to deliver that point in a spectacularly unhelpful-sounding way, so... there's that
@bright mulch If you can verify that, probably best to let them know, because that sounds buggy?
azure atlas
Someone teach me da way
sacred idol
Staggers should always reset animations, after all
azure atlas
NAOW
bright mulch
I mean I can definitely see how it could be by purposeful design but yeah guess I'll try and look for it on my next run
mint vortex
The fact that I disagreed with you doesn't make it unhelpful.
sacred idol
And you managed to miss the point.
naive tusk
“Reflexes of a demigod” sounds a bit drastic 
dim rapids
an easy way to counter poison is just to get the broken spearpoint
sacred idol
It's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it
mint vortex
Please enlighten me, O wise one!
dim rapids
also helps in hades
actually spearpoint counters quite a lot of stuff in there with the exception of bombs/rats
fat rats
mint vortex
Says the guy who started this with his sarcastic use of hyperbole.
naive tusk
Rule #1 please
turbid needle
Let's not fight guys
sacred idol
Just going to say: It literally took me that much time to get through Styx. I was playing in the background.
That is all.
mint vortex
Well, then I'll just say you play very fast since it was literally three minutes.
bright mulch
I could see it, get a door 2 sack and strong build and both doors weren't skull doors
sacred idol
Think it took me about five or six and a few seconds to pet the doggo
naive tusk
You sure you wanna miss on the other rewards? Unless you want to finish asap
sacred idol
Shield of 🧀 is just... unreasonably fast with that Dionysus throw
bright mulch
Poison means I rarely ever go for other doors once I get sack lol
sacred idol
ah, balls, I accidentally exited the house with the spearpoint, agh
sacred idol
I did. What's a good god to start Guan with?
grand patrol
athena
bright mulch
Demeter
naive tusk
Poseidon (jk)
sacred idol
superhero looking at buttons and sweating.jpg
naive tusk
Demeter is good for the slow, Dionysus for poison stacks
sacred idol
my favorite grandma versus, well, athena and the chance of starting with deflect dash
naive tusk
And Athena for defensive purposes
sacred idol
Poison stacks on the guan spear?
naive tusk
If I remember correctly, yes
sacred idol
Wait, does the throw multihit
sacred idol
like, does it basically blade rift
mmmm(urderer)
I need Athena special for the Fates, but the Fates keep sabotaging my runs, so
eternal stag
athena is always good on lifesteal, demeter and dio are good for the defensive options too
sacred idol
hmm
if I did do a dio+demeter run I'd probably try for ice wine this time
meanwhile, if Athena gives me her special, I'll just take the damn fated trolling
naive tusk
Do it
naive tusk
The 1st weapon you start with
sacred idol
Special DPS would go down if it were adjusted like that, unless it were a heck of a lot faster
but then, you'd be buffing nemesis/poseidon basically (lul)
less recovery time = easier aspect buffs
That said
I think it'd be fair to just remove a few frames of recovery post-special.
Although, take note, the Nemesis is world record speedrun afaik
naive tusk
It’s also a matter of preference-style
sacred idol
so it's already potentially one of the strongest weapons in the game, the blade's designed around capitalizing on that. that said, the Zag aspect sure as heck isn't that badass.
bright mulch
GO fast doe
sacred idol
imo I'd like a bit faster recovery on the special, or a bit more range on the sword in general, but it's objectively pretty crazy when used at high levels
so it'd be a risky sort of thing to buff
bright mulch
Sword Special can be worked around better in that the startup gap where at least I often get punished can be masked by the dash
So you special then dash in and when you appear it's the active frames
It is something that you can forget in the heat of battle though, or sometimes you're just in a situation where it doesn't help that much
sacred idol
man, Guan is fun, it just handles really interestingly
bright mulch
Yeah I wish the other aspects had the same level of changes as Guan gets
sacred idol
Not even all that fussed about its raw power, just the fact that it's so unique and handles differently
bright mulch
Like it's cool Hestia gets a sniper rifle esque feature but it'd be super neat if it changed other aspects like the Special and ammo count to be even move sniper like
pure solar
yeah it's a weird change I think to trade damage for speed since the special is meant to make you feel like a big boy
bright mulch
Like replace the rocket with a lock on that does a headshot or something
pure solar
but I also don't know too much about high-level play and what effect it has
bright mulch
Yeah me neither
sacred idol
What the hell, though
I just had a lout charge through my spear toss and kill me with the very edge of its hitbox
Bad luck on that attack length, lmao
bright mulch
Lol louts
When I was first starting the first thing I noticed was I hate the louts and their dumb lunge
bright mulch
Neat
sacred idol
not neat, it's gone
bright mulch
Don't you keep your fish on a game over?
sacred idol
No, I quit the run :/
bright mulch
Oh that's why
sacred idol
not screwing with a run in which I'm down a death defiance in tartarus.
untold widget
aww you could do it!
bright mulch
Just think of it as a challenge run
naive tusk
Or buy a DD back 🙂
sacred idol
I'm not THAT good. I died to a lout, guys.
bright mulch
Nah it's ok just pray to RNG for a god roll carry
lol
Or just use it as a throwaway run to test stuff
I've definitely done dumb stuff and bit it in zone 1 before
And then it's just like "Whelp time to complete prophecies lol"
dusky steeple
Could you all give me your rough trinket strategies please? 🙂
naive tusk
Or get a huge amount of cash to buy a diamond/titans blood at the end 
untold widget
@dusky steeple i usually go god boon to start, usually a 2nd one in asphodel if i want a particular build, then coin pouch, then spear point
generally
sacred idol
oof, I see my Darkness refunded on Budget Cuts and it's >4.8k worth
naive tusk
I don’t have a particular strategy regarding trinkets. I just pick whichever one for which I’m in the mood
bright mulch
Same
dusky steeple
I've been trying to pick skelly last
bright mulch
Easiest trinket strat is to just pick Butterfly or Feather and try and stack it on the run
dusky steeple
but I've found it's a bit pointless. If I need it I'm more likely to lose, but if I don't need it it's a waste
bright mulch
Not easiest in execution but hey no switching strats or anything
sacred idol
"easiest" hue
dusky steeple
if you keep a god boon to the next area, do its effects "refresh"?
bright mulch
No
bright mulch
I agree with the feedback that the "next boon" effect is also a suggestion more than anything lol
sacred idol
What if you swap to a god trinket midway?
bright mulch
I've picked up Arty at start of Zone 2, and didn't see Arty till the end of Zone 2
Like bruh
bright mulch
Which one GY?
sacred idol
Yeah
absolutely pathetic, lmao
only one heat too: budget cuts to knock it off fated
bright mulch
Yeah I got totally wrecked my like first four zone 1 bosses on GY lol
It definitely takes time to get used to GY
Really got to respect the enemies, on bosses unless you have athena call really can't FAce tank and DPS check like with some builds
dusky steeple
I think I got a clear on 1 heat on my first try with GY
was such a boring run though
I really don't understand the appeal
bright mulch
Don't know if you're already doing this, but for GY I prefer chaining the dash attack and special over the basic combo and I found that helped alot in keeping me safe while still doing damage and not hiding behind walls to throw out moon spins
dusky steeple
anybody who plays with controller remapped buttons?
I feel like dash should be on a shoulder button
bright mulch
Also made for a fun run in that you're mixing more moves together and thus can leverage more boon combos
sacred idol
boop, now all your boons are common.
bright mulch
Nah I use default controls on pad
bright mulch
Ah neat
dusky steeple
(on switch, at least)
on the basis that you want to be able to easily dash then attack
sacred idol
not gonna lie, I feel like this would be SO much better with Chill attack
bright mulch
Yeah, my preferred god for GY is definitely Demeter
Chill attack especially gets mad stacks off moon spin
sacred idol
honestly, I feel like Dio on this was a mistake
it doesn't feel like a dionysus weapon at all
and I died. to gorgon.
that was pathetic, basically just a poor fate run
dusky steeple
not fast enough for dio imo
sacred idol
Oh.
Right.
I forgot about Thick Skin.
And how Budget Cuts cancels it.
I feel like BC is such an absurdly harsh nerf it should start at 3 heat
Or it should start at 'enough to neuter Olympian+'
bright mulch
Yeah kinda weird that the first rank is only 1 heat right?
sacred idol
Yeah
It nerfs you harder than almost anything, and it's this dirt cheap 1 heat thing
bright mulch
Yeah going from INFINITE to 2000 for 1 heat feels harsh
sacred idol
that being said, I hate the entire concept of it
*2500, but that straight up cuts you down to 80 Deep Pockets obols
bright mulch
I feel like it's not something you tunr on until you tunr on all the others because at that point when you've turned on all that nonsense it's like you crossed the threshold and it doesn't matter anymore lol
Like, no deep pockets? Sure why not, everything in the shop takes me 3 zones to buy anyway
naive tusk
I do share the sentiment that Budget Cuts should be revised
sacred idol
Guan is a lot less forgiving without those
bright mulch
Same thing for GY
Oh you cut my health and healing by 70%? Alright time to turn up healing nerf on heat lol, doesn't matter anymore at that point
sacred idol
well, even so...
25 health guan start is a nightmare
no wonder I felt like I was made of rice paper in a blender
meanwhile I'm being memed on hard and getting Zeus this time
Demeter on Attack feels like it was made for this thing though.
I mean, besides being named FROST Fair, it benefits so much from applying a slow to everything in its massive range
dusky steeple
My favourite demeter boon is the dash
because "poof, poof, poof"
whoever came up with the poof sound is a genius
sacred idol
Not gonna lie: Guan Yu is enough reason for me to want to learn this thing, because I was always a fan
Used to play him in the old Dynasty Warriors days
chrome geyser
So for people using controllers, how does the game play with them? I have been using keyboard asd mouse, but got myself a controller that will arrive tomorrow. My main issue has been aiming so far; my aim is really bad; expeccially at higher range, since there is no autolock like bastion.
dusky steeple
There is a vague autoaim
sacred idol
Better by far, personally, although the autoaim is finicky
dusky steeple
but it can be unhelpful
especially with bombs/festive fog
that said, I can't imagine playing a game like this with mouse and kb
I only reverted to mouse and kb on about 2 skill challenges in bastion
chrome geyser
The vague autoaim is really more of a hindrance, so i turned it off.
dusky steeple
@chrome geyser I might actually try that tonight on controller
But it might make rail unplayable
sacred idol
Is it a valid strat to pursue a ton of Centaur Hearts for GY
dusky steeple
they seem so underwhelming though
I have only played two runs with it, but I would sooner look for defensive boons than hearts
chrome geyser
Mouse and keyboard would be better if the cursor was more visible. But i suspect my cursor settings might just be bad, since I'm playing on linux with proton.
Hearts and boons are mutually exclusive no? They appear on different pools. I wanna give guan yu a try but im grinding for titan block to unlock all levels of the aspect in one go.
sacred idol
Not mutually exclusive, but if I don't have rerolls...
like, if I get a heart
I'll take it over some other thing like obols
chrome geyser
From what i understand (I don't have rerolls yet) hearts should reroll to hermes, pom or shops.
chrome geyser
And boons should reroll to boons or daedalus. That's what i got from reddit.
elfin wagon
Check the pinned message
dusky steeple
@chrome geyser I'm more thinking being given a door choice between boon pool and heart
elfin wagon
Anything that benefits you in that run rerolls to each other
And likewise for permanent currency
chrome geyser
Oh that is useful to have! I thought it was two different pools for run upgrades
dusky steeple
wow that pin is very informative
never knew you could determine what kind of bossy room it is
sacred idol
Boon pool vs heart is always boon for me
elfin wagon
I think getting hearts with Guan Yu gives decimals like 12.5 instead of 13, so that when you find two hearts you get 25, instead of 26
If they round up each time it could add up too much
But go ahead, get more hearts or defense boon to make Guan Yu less of a glass cannon
sacred idol
What's the actual mechanic for healing on Guan throw
1hp/hit? Is it scaled per charge level
elfin wagon
Yeah 1hp per hit but it can tick multiple times, and you can charge spin it into crowds. Not scaled per charge level
I dunno if Nourished soul improves it
dusky steeple
I wish it was a bit quicker
sacred idol
rofl I get almost all hearts this run
boreal prism
Helthy zag
thorny edge
i heard nourished soul did but im not sure if that was a glitch
oblique tusk
gentle quartz
I've heard someone said the healing works by 1hp per 50 damage or something
gentle quartz
huh well what about the seeming bug where upgrading rarity caused the spin to increase the regen, was that fixed or is it supposed to be that way?
sacred idol
Rarity of what
chrome geyser
I assume rarity of an attack boon; that takes the damage per hit to 100.
gentle quartz
Whenever a boon was upgraded it's rarity, the hp lifesteal was increased
dim rapids
any good builds for chiron bow?
gentle quartz
Think you can still find footage of something like a +5 per hit
untold widget
it also used to work on pots
elfin wagon
For Chiron, since special hits multiple times, get Dionysus or Demeter. Maybe another status effect for attack like Aphrodite or Ares. Then you can get privileged
dim rapids
that's what i always built
though i'm not sure if it's good enough for higher heat runs
trying to experiment with new builds
elfin wagon
Ooo
dim rapids
usually went dio special
random attack (doesn't really matter)
ice wine duo
then just spam
maybe dio/aphro/artemis
stack more poison
elfin wagon
Someone mentioned Demeter's 10 chill boon with deadalus +4 special arrows before.
green sable
...i got 97 hours in so far...i think i play this game a bit much lol
dim rapids
yeah i do know that one
a ridiculously fun build would probably be poseidon special on chiron
does it work that way? lmao
sacred idol
I thought the chill explosion boon was just awful
dim rapids
it works decently with chiron
patent tiger
I still am baffled that my best time I have currently is with Stygius using the Poseidon Aspect. Even when not using the Special the base Cast damage boost really Amps up Hunting Blades damage
dim rapids
chaos gate vs hammer vs hermes boon, which to pick?
rotund wagon
how do you use Athena's cast
because I sure as hell can't
your first reflex when something bad is flying at you is 1/ Dash out of the way or 2/ Athena dash into it
Not "oh damn thankfully I have this cast that I could use to deflect it"
untold quiver
@dim rapids strats I look for in Chiron bow
Doom special + stack doom - effect room clear plus higher boss damage
Crit on special.....hammering a lot of hits into one target gets more crits
Hangover stacking
rotund wagon
It's horrible to use on Hera bow because the deflect part will be wasted
patent tiger
How well does Artemis special work with Chiron?
turbid needle
Athena cast lets you keep the aggression up without having to worry about being damaged. The duration is long enough to be worth it, and in the higher heats, dashing away doesn’t cut it at times
And artemis special with Chiron is great, each arrow can crit
untold quiver
I have made a habit if I have Athena cast (though I prefer Athena dash) of firing it and following up as it will deflect things out of your way
turbid needle
To be fair, athena dash usually does it better
And it’s a great dash so yeah
I usually don’t mess with athena cast because of that
dim rapids
not sure if it's a bug but sometimes the green explosive novas turn white due to chill
and it's ridiculously hard to see it
pallid dagger
Kind of confused by the feedback regarding the bosses. Don't the fury sisters all use different versions of the same attacks?
rotund wagon
maybe then, Athena cast should have an innate bonus to reflected damage
turbid needle
It does a ton by itself already
rotund wagon
could be stacked on top of the bonus reflected damage boon
true that
a bit weaker than crush shot, but yes
maybe nerf the raw damage to balance it out then
half the current raw damage, 50-100% bonus reflected damage
turbid needle
Crush shot is aphrodite, AKA big damage boons, so it’s fine. Also Athena’s can hit from a distance, while aphro’s short range needs you to be close
turbid needle
But I do see the point in stronger reflect, altho there’s a boon for that already
And it leads to athena legendary which is insane
polar mesa
how do you complete a violent past quest
ive acquired 4 aspect of ..... but dunno how i did it
dim rapids
if you summon meg does she not appear in the house?
polar mesa
are you talking to me?
untold widget
@patent tiger dont be surprised, the current WR speedrun is with poseidon sword :P
naive tusk
Someone said the WR was with Nemesis aspect. Wonder which one really is...
gaunt hinge
after first using poseidon sword, I think Hera bow needs work
naive tusk
That’s really fast 😮
gloomy vine
8:06 to finish the entire game? I don't believe that
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i'll get the VOD for you :P
it helps that Hades uses seeds
so you can practice on a particular seed
gloomy vine
Oh, on a known seed that you practice maybe you can do it.
pallid dagger
@white finch I don't know why you want more variation in the boss fights, as that will make them unstable. You might be really, really good at the game, but you also might really suck on another run. The boss fights have to be stable enough to accommodate thousands of different runs and playstyles.
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pallid dagger
and if the final few bosses get patched up because of that and become a sudden nightmare, this server ain't gonna let you hear the end of it
white finch
I mean, having lots of different bosses per floor is more or less a staple of the genre is the thing
Like i said in my post, i generally don't like comparing games like that, but it's something i personally miss in this game
And also like i mentioned, we already have the furies which offer a nice bit of variation while having similar moves, they add some pretty strong variations to their shared attacks while offering new gimmicks and attacks of their own
The other bosses in comparison are much more repetetive
gloomy vine
Yeah, can see immediately this is just someone who knows exactly where everything is spawning exactly where it is. Obviously this is impressive but I was thinking just starting a run normally that would be impossible time
white finch
Just my opinions as someone that loves Roguelikes though
so hope that doesnt sound "elitist" lol
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@gloomy vine the routing can only take you so far
pallid dagger
You sound coherent, not elitist. I just don't agree lol.
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basically once you get out of tartarus youre running blind
pallid dagger
I'd sooner provide more variation in the miniboss fights than the stage bosses.
dim rapids
does anyone know if using light of ixon can spawn a chaos gate if you're in chamber 12?
pallid dagger
As it is, they're all just souped up versions of regular enemies.
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im sure people have done better, but ive also done a blind seed run and got 13.22 IGT
white finch
and i guess the final boss could stay the same, looking at Enter the gungeon the final boss there's also the same for example
But say the Hydra could have different variations for it's main head, with different attacks similar to how the furies are all different
Theseus could also summon much more varied help from the gods, instead of simply summoning some hazard zones
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@fallow niche was your 10:14 run using the seed?
white finch
though preferably i'd love to see completely new bosses be added to zone 2 and 3
I'm not too well versed in greek lore, but i'm sure there's more legendary fighters you could meet at the elysium arena and other beasts that may reside in asphodel
again though, i love our current boss roster, but after 160 runs so far they get a little too predictable as a "roguelike veteran" i suppose, not discredit anyone else's opinion if they like predictability
I'd suggest locking them behind a pact of punishment, but locking completely new bosses behind the pact may be a lot of extra work for content many players may never see
thorny edge
i'd love to see more bosses in asphodel and elyisum. i want to keep hades since he's the final boss
pallid dagger
Well remember, ||Hades|| may not be the final boss forever. we're still in early access.
Once upon a time, Theseus filled that role.
thorny edge
theyve said they have no plans for additional biomes atm
pallid dagger
Ah, well, therein lies your problem
You're 160 runs in
Anything is going to feel standard and predictable after you're done it that many times
You've discovered pretty much all the ways that they change and how to counter them
white finch
yes, but that is one of the main attractions if you're developing a roguelike, (more or less) endless replayability
thorny edge
alecto and tiss are unlocked after X amount of runss, coould eassilly do the samme with hydra and elys
pallid dagger
Well remember, this is a "rogue-lite" as supergiant has defined it. it may not play, or be intended to be played, exactly the same as games more faithful to the genre.
a lot of players here clearly come from Dark Souls or other similarly nightmarishly hard games, and i feel like it colors their expectations too much
thorny edge
most gamess people call roguelikess are "roguue lites"
white finch
looking at another one of my favorite, enter the gungeon, it usually has 2-3 different bosses that can appear at the end of a floor, on top of that rare secret bosses may spawn, as well as secret floors with extra bosses as well
so have only 4 (or 7 with all the furies) is a little low
brave cobalt
I would like the 5th location in the game. Olympus, for example.
pallid dagger
now, secret bosses does sound really cool
white finch
again, different games, but still worth mentioning imo
brave cobalt
it would be even better than extra bosses in locations 2 and 3
pallid dagger
but you'd have to incentivize me to find and fight them; big bounty rewards or unique keepsakes, perhaps
white finch
https://enterthegungeon.gamepedia.com/Bosses
i count 27 bosses for this game for example, which adds a lot more replayability imo
though the most extreme example would probably be binding of isaac
on the topic of secret floors, Styx does feel a little like it would better be fit as a secret floor, due to how it works so much differently than the rest of the game up to that point
and introduces poison too
pallid dagger
there's 5 minibosses in styx, one for each type of enemy.
swap those out for some unique individual bosses, and then make sure one lies at the end of each corridor, maybe?
white finch
more minibosses would also be neat, there's some interesting ones, like meeting Asterius before the main boss, the Soulcatcher one is also interesting with the add spawns, but the ones i Styx feel mostly boring, just beefed up normal enemies without too much of a strategy needed
pallid dagger
a giant ominous jade statue carved into the shape of three serpents that throws out ten giant laser beams of death every few seconds: why are you ignoring me
me, getting pelted by satyrs: kinda busy here
also! i'm about to start my first 10-heat run
brave cobalt
There are also many bosses in "Devil Slayer - Raksasi", it seems 19, although this game is in early access. 2-3 bosses for each location, which are randomly selected at the end with each run. + Already added an alternative map for the second location. And it will also be with the rest, in theory. The idea is very cool, and it would be nice if Hades did something like that.
turbid needle
GL @pallid dagger
pallid dagger
@here i'm nursing some thoughts and want opinions
during runs, do you usually end up with a cast+attack build? or do you lean a lot towards attacks and specials or towards casts, never the two shall meet?
timber temple
I personally just go for the highest rarity boons and the build turn out rng based
I try to strive for a balance
A bit of single target, a bit of aoe and some utility
white finch
depends on the weapon on what gods i end up meeting
for example i rarely ever use the bow's special unless i get a debuff for it that's easy to apply, say ares, dionysus etc
gloomy vine
How do people feel about aspect of chiron? I really like the idea of it but it felt totally underwhelming to me.
white finch
which one is that again?
gloomy vine
the 2nd bow. special fires fewer projectiles and they home in on the last foe you attacked
manic ermine
I don't like Chiron because it doesn't make you do anything better
white finch
ah yeah, i absolutely adore Hera's aspect and Chiron's feels kind of too weak in comparison?
Chiron seems like it should be amazing at killing one target very quickly, but it's damage is meh
Hera is better at that too, because adding 3 casts to your shot basically oneshots most enemies with a good cast build
thick sedge
chiron can be pretty good if you get some nice special boons
but I still almost always take hera
pallid dagger
i ask, because i find that it's rare i ever want to use cast and attack builds at the same time. depending on the weapon, i'll go for attack, special, or both, but never casts, or vice versa--casts and leave everything else untouched. i'm probably not going to take time out of machine gunning everything to death to throw a few blood crystals, etc. etc. hera's bow aspect is the first and so far only thing that's made me actually want to seek out both skillsets. i kind of want more aspects that do that, combine cast with attack or something
white finch
instead of lowering the arrows you should maybe it should give you more instead
or increase damage per arrow for every arrow that hits the enemy
also, imo the mark duration is a bit low, you only get off 2 or 3 specials max before it runs out
gloomy vine
Yeah this is what I mean by I like the idea of chiron. It looks like in theory it should be a great single target dps choice but it just isn't in practice even with a good special boon.
digital vessel
Chiron is great once you upgrade it and get a feel for the rhythm of attack-special-special. Had success lately with Demeter, Dionysus, or Artemis on special, all work well. Ideally something like Aphrodite on attack
Chiron + Demeter special + extra special shots hammer + Demeter boon to burst at 10 chill stacks = constant bursts while still keeping chill on them all the time
So there’s some fun things to try with it
white finch
i tried it last time with zeus i think, since i thought procing bolts a bunch of times like that may be good, but that run had me severely lacking dps lol