im going to sit here on the boon screen until i het an answer cause i dont want to miss a chance
#h1-builds-and-combat
thorny oracle
naive tusk
I don’t know. That never happened to me
lament coral
@thorny oracle yes, you get all 3 effects
thorny oracle
YOOO
naive tusk
I think they will combine to add the effects
lament coral
though Demeter will modify the look of the cast
it'll look like a frozen field instead of a cloud
but it's just a visual thing
thorny oracle
Thanks for the answer!
naive tusk
If in doubt, experiment 😉
thorny oracle
Now my festive fog does lightning damage AND chill
patent tiger
I like Dionysus' cast for Hera Bow. The cast is somewhat difficult to aim normally. Though with Hera just load and attack
thorny oracle
Thats what im using! Makes his cast so much better
tawny hare
So I feel the game kinda chaotic, and I struggle a little bit to dodge or play when everything is really fast. Not blaming the game of course, Im just wondering if you have any tips to most difficult enemies and/or bosses, maybe a way to practice them efficiently?
I guess if you want to do heat 40 or something like that, you kinda need to learn most patterns.
Ive completed the game already, bust sometimes I spam a little bit.
I want to get used to do "no damage" or close to that
lament coral
you will take damage
it's natural
that's why there are various healing options
I'm sure it's not impossible to do a no hit run but it'd require a lot of practice and dumb luck
bright mulch
Yeah defintely
tawny hare
As in doing no damage
bright mulch
It's one of the most realistic areas to optomize yeah due to less varaibles, though they'll still be there
tawny hare
Like the third boss (the bull and the guy lol dont kill me for forgeting names XD), I can be consistent at dodging the bull
bright mulch
Yes that's a tough one
tawny hare
Im actually new to the game
turbid needle
@analog plover Bloodstones drop from enemies after 15 seconds.
tawny hare
But the times Ive gotten and also beat hadds, it was hectic and I did many mistakes
bright mulch
Something you can do, is be on the look out for the miniboss rooms in Zone 3 can contain Bull by himself
tawny hare
Yeah
bright mulch
There you can fight him slone and get a better feel for his moveset so he's not as scary to dela with at the end
That's what helped me
tawny hare
I fought him by himself a couple of times
But I mean, the bull is not a problem, im saying he is the one I kinda know how to fight the most
Even more than the first boss (all of them)
I was just wondering if you guys did something to practice specific stuff. Lol, thanks for your reply btw
Im really enjoying the game, but I still dont feel the gameplay 100%, I guess with practice Ill get it. :D
bright mulch
Ah so the problem is shiny man
patent tiger
On one run with Hera Bow, I managed to get my Bloodstone drop timer to 2.78 seconds
rare notch
for bosses you have a thing to avoid 5 of their hits i con't remember the name but it's really usefull
turbid needle
Wish I could get that with Achilles.
bright mulch
Yeah I'm not a pro against him either lol, but he is a good test if I'm gonna complete the run or not
If I can just DPS check him fast enough I know I have a good shot against the last boss
turbid needle
Something Acorn, Eurydice's trinket.
bright mulch
If not I tend to lose a lot of DD versus the greusome twosome lol
tawny hare
Its not really something in particular, my problem is something more general haha, not really the bosses. At some points in the runs I kinda spam and end up taking a lot of damage, sometimes losing defiance, etc
naive tusk
Evergreen Acorn, I think it’s called
bright mulch
Same lol
tawny hare
Btw, is there any place where I could see builds and sinergies?
bright mulch
Yeah I think that's just practice, knowing when to have restraint on the macro scale and not get lazy and overconfident in a strong build
Avoid the DangerouslyFunny syndrome basically lol
patent tiger
I do notice a lot of people have a lot of clears with Shield. I would like tips on how to make my Shield runs more smooth. I mainly use Bow or Spear.
tawny hare
Ohh just read the general guide, ty!
But Im wondeeing if someone could help me with something more specific, for instance;
The best version of each weapon, and whatt kind of boona and keepsakes you would recommend.
bright mulch
Shield I think a big key is to use the block and bull rush a lot more and really leverage that forward invincibility like those exalted fellows
tawny hare
What aspect would you recommend? I ncreased zeus aspect, but I dont think it might be the best
rare notch
keepsake evergreen acorn is great
boons idk i like artemis and the new god but a lot of them can be great
turbid needle
Zeus Aspect is pretty hard to use.
tawny hare
Yeah
turbid needle
Zagreus Aspect is the easiest, and Chaos is just a straight upgrade over no Aspect, just make sure you're Bull Rushing to get the multi-throw.
rare notch
chaos shield is awesome also
tawny hare
Throwing then running and grabbing the shield agaim towards you, having the enemies in between. I frel like chaos might be the best one yeah
Btw, is there a build focused on dash that you would recommend?
I havent gotten many of the dash focused boons, I tried one and it felt nice tbh
bright mulch
Sword works well with dash attacks
Can get double dash strike with damage boost, then get Arty boon to boost dash-attack damage get another attack boon on top of that etc.
For just literal dash powers
bright mulch
Dio applies tons of poison for the dash effect which is good for setting up the double status effect damage bonus
turbid needle
Aphro Attack, Artemis Special, Athena Dash, Crit the world.
thorny oracle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/637774977801912350/674008140240650270/unknown.png woo! that was SUPER fun
turbid needle
Uuuuuuuuuugh, I still need that Duo duo!
Were you skipping final boss phases in a single shot?
tawny hare
What is the best way to farm titan "early game" (after you beat the game once)
thorny oracle
One fully charged cast shot will all three casts did insane damage
turbid needle
Rotate weapons, slowly building Heat.
thorny oracle
What also helped was getting a hammer upgrade that had attack increase damage towards armored enemies
tawny hare
But i must kill last boss to get 1?
turbid needle
Don't take shield to 20 and then not know how to use anything else.
Yes.
First and last bosses drop 1 Titan Blood per level of Heat, including 0 Heat, for every weapon.
stray frigate
or make 1-2 heat run ending prophecy about pact and also cuing Charon
tawny hare
The first one too?
dim rapids
i'm pretty sure with shield you can play extremely defensive and still win with no boons
though elysum and styx will be pretty hard
turbid needle
You can also use the Prophecies for extra items.
tawny hare
Thing is, im not sure how to really complete a bunch of them
Im wondering if theres a guide
stray frigate
and dont forget broker sometimes he gives u good deals
turbid needle
The Fated List should be pretty self-explanatory.
It's stuff like "get all Daedelus hammers for the sword" and "get all of Athena's boons."
tawny hare
Hmm, any fated list mission you would advise me to do, that can be done early?
stray frigate
almost any
tawny hare
Like im reading wanton ransacking and im not sure what to do
turbid needle
Take a look at it and decide for yourself. You'll always learn more by running into a wall first.
tawny hare
For example.
analog plover
@turbid needle I kinda figured it was something like that but there's nothing in game that tells you. 10 seconds for common Quick Reload sounds bad but would be way more appealing if the game said it cuts of 5 seconds.
thorny edge
wanton ransacking is miniboss rooms i believe
http://prntscr.com/qx362h look for rooms with this symbol
tawny hare
Or a simple job, etc. Like I read the description but im not sure exactly what to do, so i cant really go for it actively
turbid needle
Have you even tried talking to the Contractor?
blazing mulch
turbid needle
@analog plover I definitely agree that it should say somewhere that Bloodstones will lodge for 15 seconds.
thorny edge
you can llink discord posts what
blazing mulch
yeach ? 😄
tawny hare
Hmm not sure, but ill try it latrt lol. Is the contractir the same guy that sells stuff? Or maybe i still have to play more to get him? Idk
Ty for the replies btw
Really appreciate the help and info
turbid needle
Hopefully that big compendium of boons, Bloodstones, and Hammers eventually happens.
ocean arch
Contractor is the guy next to Hades in the house
turbid needle
In-game, I mean.
thorny edge
yee
turbid needle
The Red Onion entry in the Codex is amazing.
@chrome geyser Definitely a bug. You should not have been offered Scintillating Feast without Trippy Shot.
tawny hare
Btw, you guys play with control or mkb
turbid needle
MKB.
thorny edge
i mostly play MKB
tawny hare
And you aim with cursor and dash with cursor? Or what is the way you guys usually play?
turbid needle
Dash using WASD, aim with cursor.
thorny edge
aim witth curser dash in direct of movement
tawny hare
I see, does aim assist affect something on mkb? Or thats just controller?
turbid needle
I somehow made dash to cursor work in Hyper Light Drifter, but I'm not messing with it here.
thorny edge
it snaps to the enemy closest to the curser with in a distance
tawny hare
Ive been looking to play furi like crazy, master the bosses, and dashing with cursor works really well, but for Hades im not sure. Ive been playing with controller so far tho
Its not really bad, the auto aim is decent i think
But Ill probably go for mkb
tawny hare
Have you completed 40 heat @turbid needle
tawny hare
Is that an in game setting?
fallow niche
Yes
tawny hare
Ill check that out later, ty
fallow niche
Going above 32 heat sounds like torture%
32 heat is fun for me, but forcing me to take any of the remainder modifiers sounds like an easy way for me to hate the game
No Choice is legit the worst
tawny hare
Ymmy but theres more than 40 heat right? I just checcked horheristos video, is that the limit or theres more that at this point wouldnt make sense to try?
turbid needle
50 Heat is impossible.
tawny hare
I see, but 50 heat is probably close to impossible right?
fallow niche
Basically impossible to complete without a tool assisting you
turbid needle
Yeah, TAS + perfect RNG through the entire run.
blazing mulch
Max heat will be fun to play when the game will be polished , atm you can get some damage even when you should not. It need much more visible indicators where and when you can get damage. Atm its not so clear always.
thorny edge
Petition to make max no choice grant no boons at all
turbid needle
Spawn with Hunting Blades and Vicious Cycle, you could still make it happen.
fallow niche
No Choice doesn't increase the challenge of the game honestly, it just tests your luck rather than skill and that's why I hate it so much
No amount of heat will make it worth it
For an actual worse gaming experience
wheat fox
the damning thing about no choice is that you can actually see what you COULD have gotten
makes it a feelsbad every time
fallow niche
Yeah it taunts you too 😂
thorny edge
i havent played with it myself but i like it being there as an option
fallow niche
I don't because something else could take its place
As a legitimate thing to increase the challenge
Rather than test my luck
wheat fox
feel like a more fun version of that would be replace 1 choice with a random other god boon
fallow niche
The first time I ever used No Choice I use no other heat modifiers seeing how bad it would be. It gave me the choice I would have taken normally every time. I have learned to hate it - not because it spurned me, but because it either does nothing or it punishes the player for no fault of their own.
wheat fox
so you're still not getting entirely what you wanted, but at least you're getting SOMETHING, ya know?
fallow niche
That's definitely better yeah
There is a discussion to be had about input vs output RNG and No Choice definitely feels like output RNG
turbid needle
Can you define the two for me real quick?
fallow niche
Uh sure, I'm going to simplify it a lot here though:
turbid needle
Because adding one or two boons from another random Olympians sounds sweet.
Honestly, super cool.
Also, remove it impacting Hammers and Poms.
native ether
Would agree with that one
Simply making No Choice not show the lost options would be a huge help
turbid needle
I'm with Forge, it's still bad that way.
It's just tightening RNG's grip, sometimes unfairly.
native ether
my other dislike of No Choice is it can force you into taking an exchange boon
I like the concept but how it feels now is more infuriating rather than interesting
fallow niche
Input RNG is RNG stuff that occurs without any player action required and at the start of the game generally: stuff like random level generation and so on.
Output RNG is stuff like XCOM where you shoot an enemy and then a die roll decides whether your action mattered or not.
I say that No Choice feels like output RNG because you make a ton of good actions and choose a boon and bam - the game shows you all the boons and then chooses one for you, removing player skill from the equation. Now this is really a type of input RNG because its decided by game seed, but the way it plays is exactly like some of the must frustrating stuff in many games. @turbid needle
That's why I say it feels like it
Now a huge caveat over the XCOM comparison is that game was designed around that sort of interaction - whereas Hades isn't designed around No Choice.
native ether
I feel like No Choice might be more interesting and less infuriating if it was done like this:
No Choice - Boons, Hammers, and Poms of Power have a 33/66/100% chance to spawn with 1 less option.
Which makes it a considerably easier condition, but it makes it much less frustrating to fight against
fallow niche
If they really want to keep it, it should max out at 1 option and be worth much more heat
native ether
While still doing its intended job
native ether
I like it because it can serve for some interesting fun challenges by itself
but combined with other pact options it scales poorly
fallow niche
It doesn't add challenge at NC2
It literally just says your run is determined by RNG at that point
native ether
exactly 
fallow niche
You cannot construct a build, it is given to you
That is literally not a 'challenge'
oblique tusk
it's a "challenge"
fallow niche
Its more like gambling
oblique tusk
just not a very interesting one
native ether
the challenge is "are you good enough to beat the game with a preset build you zero control over"
oblique tusk
it's a challenge the same way breaking your fingers before you try to compete in the olympics would be a challenge
fallow niche
Except how good you are has significantly less impact over winning @native ether
Some awful player can get all the bad choices knocked out
And they would get a build so good they would have never made it
native ether
Yeah, its possible, but its more likely they won't
fallow niche
True, but the sheer fact of the matter is that you have no choice!
native ether
the chance of you getting boons that work together is less likely than getting things that offer no help to each other at all
fallow niche
That's the name of the pact mod!
turbid needle
It's a really bad challenge, and I like randomized boons from other gods way more.
fallow niche
Literally tilting me with the 'good enough' line
only gets death defiance boons from athena
'git gud'
turbid needle
And I'm sorry, but I'm probably gonna trumpet that until v1.0.
fallow niche
Same
native ether
the game has no physical way to calculate the perfect combo and deny it to player, so thus its entirely chance based, No Choice is the definition of "can you beat the game with zero control over your build"
Yes you can get both death defiance boons from Athena which is either awful, or amazing, depending on your current position
fallow niche
And even after
If it remains as-is
Once again, player skill doesn't determine any of that @native ether
native ether
I like the premise, find its execution poor in relation to the pact. Its a condition I don't mind running on its own, but despise running combined with anything else remotely challenging.
native ether
Player skill doesn't no. But being good allows you to win with a random set of boons that don't work together, whereas not being good makes that considerably less likely.
Specifically with no other conditions
fallow niche
Speaking from experience, when I was given a random set of boons that don't work together from normal RNG when it was worse, the game was strictly not fun. Nor was it challenging in the same ways Hades generally challenges the player: with preplanning.
You lose an entire massive angle of the game.
Your god trinkets? Useless. Your Rerolls? Also likely useless. Your knowledge of builds? Worthless.
native ether
The only reason I don't mind No Choice existing is so I can do my self named "Whims of Fate Challenge" where I run No Choice, use the Egg the entire run, take every Chaos Gate and Light of Ixion, and blast the Persona 5 music of the same name through my ears as I wonder "am I going to win this run"
Which yes I do that occasionally. Sometimes its fun to go "i dont care what my build is, lets have the game decide for me".
fallow niche
And just imagining a run where you get 1 boon and all the others are just trying to replace it is sickening lmao
native ether
I specifically despise No Choice combined with anything else. Its not fun to have to deal with its effects while you also have to deal with reduced healing, increased prices, or increased damage. (or heaven forbid the timer)
turbid needle
Look, Pear, no one is trying to shame your kink.
native ether
fallow niche
LMAO
Well you do you, but man your staunch attitude about an awful pact mod for some ultra niche self imposed gamemode you can probably achieve with other means is not really relevant for most peoples use of the pact.
native ether
That's a good line considering the dungeon Whims of Fate is associated with in Persona 5 (Sae <3)
fallow niche
And when I do a 32 heat or higher run? Me and basically everyone who isn't heavily messing with seed RNG for a speedrun ain't going to choose it.
native ether
Oh ofc it isn't. That's why I suggested a rework :p
fallow niche
Then I really don't get the point of the entire argument up until this point 
turbid needle
It's only a little annoying that the far and away hardest Pact option is tied for second-most Heat.
turbid needle
Whims of Fate mod for v1.1, turns all boons into one room curse Chaos boons.
fallow niche
Budget Cuts actually offers a challenge, even if its one I don't enjoy
native ether
Oh don't get me started on Budget Cuts nothing compares to the vitriol I feel for Budget Cuts
turbid needle
Okay, Budget Cuts being only worth 5 Heat is just offensive.
native ether
I would rather have my Hammers and Boons decided for me, instead of having 0 rerolls, 50 health, no starting money, and 1 death defiance
oh and no privileged status
native ether
at least with no choice I have access to my 3 defiances, privileged status, extra starting health, and money to buy more health with
fallow niche
I would rather play like a PTSD hamster with Budget Cuts knowing that my success and failure depend entirely on my own skill and choices than let No Choice decide to throw me under a bus
turbid needle
Okay, but where do you balance Budget Cuts?
native ether
but yeah I figure a rework for No Choice and Budget Cuts would be a fantastic idea.
turbid needle
From 3500 (all mirror options sans rarities and FA)? From 8500?
fallow niche
Idk if budget cuts needs a rework necessarily but the levels between it do seem random considering whats on the mirror
It just needs to be worth a lot more heat
turbid needle
I think 3 for 3500, plus one Heat per level down to 500.
fallow niche
No Choice either needs to be reduced to 1 level only and heat increased or it needs a total rework
turbid needle
👏 RANDOM 👏 BOONS 👏 FROM 👏 GODS 👏
native ether
Random entirely just throws rerolls out the window
which I'm not a fan of personally. I find rerolls to be one of the more interesting parts of runs, they help me get builds I really want rolling
fallow niche
They give move control over the outcome of the run, I find them to be wonderful
Skill determines how effective they are too
🙏 wonderful mirror upgrade
thorny edge
huh no choice ddoesnt effect wells of charon, thhought it wouldddve
long sierra
kinda wish knockback worked on bosses just a little. Makes poseidon build viable against final bossmang
I think budget cuts is the most difficult heat add possibly. Without it you have like 20k stacked on the mirror, then suddenly you get only 2500?
seems weird
hollow sorrel
No choice would be much better if the tier 1 boons didn't have so many utility boons, and/or if there was some sort of bad luck protection, for filling out attack/special/dash/cast
lament coral
they gave Poseidon a boon that makes all of knockback boons deal extra damage against bosses
so on top of running bad Poseidon boons and needing Rupture, you need another boon to deal damage to bosses
instead of, I dunno, just making Rupture a built-in feature of Poseidon boons?
desert robin
Ehh I don’t think rupture needs to be built in
lament coral
really?
desert robin
Yeah I think it’s fine as it is
lament coral
because every other god without a built-in status provides an immediate effect
Poseidon's knockback? That's nothing
desert robin
It’s definitely something
hollow sorrel
I still don't see the big deal about Poseidon. At least his garbage boons do damage to trash. Most gods have garbage boons that don't do anything unless they are stacked with a bunch of other boons
lament coral
really?
thorny edge
zeus needs another boon for jolted
desert robin
^
lament coral
Zeus is a special cupcake
hollow sorrel
Almost all of Ares' boons are complete garbage to me. There's almost zero chance I'll care about the blade rift boons
lament coral
Zeus attack on rail doesn't need anything
hollow sorrel
Aphro's garbage boons are mostly useless to me too
lament coral
on anything else...I don't see why you'd be running Zeus attack on anything else
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here
Poseidon gives you some +% damage and knockback
desert robin
Zeus attack is okay on flurry spear
lament coral
someone like Aphro gives you mad +% damage AND weak
weak is useful, always
and is a status
hollow sorrel
LIke 3/4 (or a bit more) of the game is trash though
desert robin
I don’t see ur argument point with why Zeus needs jolted as a boon and Poseidon should have built in rupture
I think both are fine as is
lament coral
because knockback doesn't do anything most of the time
are you running around pushing enemies into walls and obstacles?
be honest
hollow sorrel
Athena needs a second boon too, and Artemis doesn't even have a useful status ailment to unlock
lament coral
damn, you're dense
desert robin
Whoops
hollow sorrel
I'm using it for the rupture
Getting two useable status ailments is more important than other stuff
lament coral
ok, so you take a garbage Poseidon attack/special/cast to then take another Poseidon boon and get a status
instead of just, I dunno, taking a god with a built-in status?
desert robin
You don’t always have that choice you know
lament coral
or a god with a good built-in effect but without status, like Athena
that's only true before you get your hands on Fated Authority
hollow sorrel
The game doesn't really give me what I want most of the time
lament coral
I know you're on hell, and so am I
hollow sorrel
I rarely ever use Ares' keepsake, because only two of his normal boons proc doom, so it's more chances I won't get his status ailment
lament coral
before the mirror limiter was removed, it was crap
cause the only FAs came from keys
now tho? It's a paradise
hollow sorrel
So I'm usually just using Aphro/Demeter
yeah, I have 1 reroll from the mirror
I totally ignored the whole darkness &*(^ because I didn't think I'd ever need it
lament coral
how many hours do you have? over 60?
hollow sorrel
no
lament coral
ah, I see
hollow sorrel
not anywhere near that much
And this is why I thought darkness was ^#$%^&. Because it rewards people for just grinding the game for (&%%& amounts of time
oblique tusk
aphro's garbage boons
...pardon?
aphro's boons are excellent
they had to be nerfed
desert robin
Yeah only darkness dump in the game Tho so makes sense
oblique tusk
because they were top-tier
desert robin
He’s probably talking about some of her worse boons
Which she does have some pretty bad ones compared to her useful ones lol
hollow sorrel
longer weak duration, damaging nearby enemies, revenge damage, small damage resist
At no point ever, do I want those instead of filling out attack/special/dash
desert robin
Weak duration can be meh depending on ur weapon/what ur weak affect attack is on
lament coral
I'll concede on revenge and weak on kill, those are not inspiring
hollow sorrel
Most of the time I put it on whatever slot I can spam
lament coral
and what if you don't?
desert robin
Then it’s good
hollow sorrel
Like, if it's nemesis, and it's on attack/special/dash, then when am I going to have it fall off?
lament coral
what if you get Aphro special on your sword instead of attack?
desert robin
As i said can be meh
lament coral
that +X seconds is a god send
special ones, they're weak forever
now use your attack with another status
desert robin
Well yes I’m just saying it’s not always good
hollow sorrel
if I get it on the special, I'll just dash-cancel into special
lament coral
bam, permanent Priv Stat
hollow sorrel
I dash-cancel into special pretty much 95% of the time I'm using special anyway
hollow sorrel
I'm think I'm just super bitter, of the number of games where I'm in the 2nd or 3rd biome, and I'm still missing the normal boons, because the game just wants to give utility boons
lament coral
I feel you, man
hollow sorrel
Like sure, give me utility boon #6, and I still don't have a special boon or dash boon
but sure, those utility boons are totally useful, and totally make up for the lack of normal boons
Everytime I'm missing a normal core boon, and I get something that doesn't help my damage, I'm like whyyyyyyy
lament coral
I've suggested it before that the first god you pick should only offer you attack/special/cast so that you'd always have your main slot occupied
hollow sorrel
I think I suggested that a while back too; a lot of people have
lament coral
dash is useful but not run defining, not at the beginning, and call is useless
hollow sorrel
still doesn't help if I'm playing chiron, use it to get an early special boon, and I'm literally on EX-Hydra, and the game never offered a dash boon or aoe cast boon
lament coral
you barely deal enough damage to get 1 bar
hollow sorrel
so I'm trying to piddle down the EX Hydra, and all its spawns
dash can help get rid of the 2 blue hearts (if I have that punishment), and helps get rid of stupid junk like the hydra skeletons
lament coral
but wouldn't you rather have an attack/special/cast in Tartarus?
hollow sorrel
yes
lament coral
and that was my point
hollow sorrel
I'd rather have an attack/special/cast/dash by the end of the 2nd biome
and to be honest, for some playthroughs, I'd be ok if cast got pushed back, because I sometimes only have 1 cast crystal if I'm on budget cuts
lament coral
you still run BC?
hollow sorrel
sometimes I run 2,000 BC
lament coral
I think I'm addicted to higher boon rarity, FAs, and extra defiances
I've not had a single common attack/special/cast since the limiter was removed
and I don't wanna go back to it
loud glacier
Is there a way to check Fate progress mid-run?
I have a hammer door and I'm not sure if I even need anything else for my spear 🤔
lament coral
there will be a scroll on the option if you need it for the list
but you can't check the whole thing, no
loud glacier
Alright. I want to take a chaos gate instead of going in to check but I'll just take the gate and hope I've already done it 
hollow sorrel
I sometimes go out of my way to have hard labor on the lowest setting, and it's literally just because max +enemy damage and max +enemy speed, is such hot garbage with the final boss on hell mode, when I'm using a melee weapon
and it's literally just the final boss. I'm fine with +damage and +speed on everything else
lament coral
really? Asterius gives me a lot of trouble with 40% FO with the sword
non-sword is fine, sword = lost defiances
hollow sorrel
I haven't gotten to the sword yet
I did a 32 Hestia and 32 Chaos, and I was going back and forth about what to do with the bow
The Hera bow kept lodging crystals out of bounds and into lava, and chiron was just a bit sad on the damage, when multiple things needed to be hit
I'm probably stuck with Hera, and either be super obnoxious with my positioning, or hope there is a decent non-Aphro cast that doesn't do obnoxious things, like flying out of bounds
lament coral
I tried Hera, and while it's strong, I'd rather take my chances with Chiron and getting 2 statuses before Elysium
Chiron can cut through blue shields with ease, but Hera? It's dead
Zag is actually not too bad either, but if you don't get the bouncing arrow hammer and an attack boon before Hydra, it's gonna be really bad
bouncing arrow and triple arrow hammers is how you make Zag bow win
hollow sorrel
Hestia was still my favorite though. I felt like a only needed a good attack boon to carry me. With chiron, if the game doesn't give me two status ailments, it's just so tragic
sand glade
Poseidon Dash + Blasting Waves + Second Wave is fun. And then have some of them up to Lv. 3 and Lv. 4 because of Poseidon boon that increases pom potency.
lament coral
I don't usually have a problem get statuses, it's getting both attack and special boons that's causing the most issues
sand glade
Just hear to say, Styx is basically me using Dash a lot
lament coral
Styx is basically the only biome where Poseidon does something
sand glade
I've been using him a lot during this run because I got 4 or 5 different boons from both him and Aphrodite
lament coral
you'd think Asphodel would be good, too, because of lava
but nope, too many flying enemies
and lava isn't a wall, so no bonus damage for you!
sand glade
yeah.
But yeah, rn, I managed to pretty much get Poseidon Dash + Blasting Waves + Second Wave + Zeus duo boon. I'm mostly giggling at it because a lot of this was because I kept getting boons every 2 rooms at the start of the run, when I was originally planning to get the rest of the exchanges between Zag and Hypnos about a thing. Maybe next run.
tawny hare
Hmhm so, about companions, I read on the wikia at some point you have to give ambrosia, but how do you get trust?
Giving nectar?
And what companion you recommend?
And finally, regarding fishing. The rarity of fish you get is based on reaction time? Or it has rng involved?
hollow sorrel
both
faster reaction time gives "perfect catch," which can give rare or legendary fish
slower reaction time can only give common or rare
tawny hare
Hmhm yeah, i figured both, because I feel like I did something around 170-190ms and only got the scuffer, although not sure if there are other factors involved
hollow sorrel
To be honest, if the first two bobs are fake, I'll hit the button on the 3rd bob right when it starts to go down. Doesn't win everytime, but whatever
tawny hare
Like map, or how far I am in the game
tawny hare
Where do I get voidskate?
hollow sorrel
chaos legendary
hollow sorrel
normal catch is super likely common fish, and very rarely rare fish
perfect catch is super like rare fish, and very rarely legendary fish
and we know which fish are in each zone, and each rarity
tawny hare
Ohh yeah but I mean, like
How likely it is you have a fish available on chaos?
Do we have that kinda info yet?
hollow sorrel
oh, I dunno that
lament coral
extremely rare
lament coral
we don't have the exact numbers tho
tawny hare
I see. Hopefully people will go deep on the game info, would be nice to know that info :D
Btw, is there any advantage of starting a hell mode playthrough?
Like. Better rewards or stuff like that?
Or is just challenge?
hollow sorrel
you get an additional punishment
I suppose an advantage, if you really wanted one more level of heat
It was supposed to be a hard mode, but it got nerfed recently
thick sedge
somebody mentioned how good hera now was with festive fog
then I go to do a hera run and the first boon I get is festive fog!
and it was amazing
so satisfying to do huge chunks of damage to bosses
gloomy vine
@tawny hare unless I am mistaken the chances of getting a fishing point is base 10% per room with the requirement that it must be at least 10 rooms away from the last fishing point spawn and you must own the rod. The chaos fishing chance is dropped to 2% with same requirements.
willow tangle
So this might just be my being bad, but it feels really bad when Theseus gets Poseidon and I'm playing Guan Yu aspect. It's ridiculously difficult to escape taking damage because of how much of the area is covered in circles, and you don't attack nearly fast enough to just kill him through the circles.
oblique tusk
just gotta wait for the circles to stop
and get your swings in while they're in the off part of the cycle
willow tangle
they weren't stopping
i went through all 3 DD and i pretty much couldn't get a hit in once the circles started
to be fair, i think i had like +12 or +18 hp total, so only 3-4 hits killed me, but it was still exceedingly frustrating
oblique tusk
patience yo
they stop eventually
just stay calm, focus on dodging
once you get the patterns down, they're not too bad
willow tangle
after how long?
oblique tusk
and generally, you want asterius dead first
willow tangle
i did kill asterius
oblique tusk
after like
willow tangle
i was dodging for about 5-6 minutes before i gave up dodging and just tried to kill theseus
oblique tusk
5-8 seconds, depending on the god
willow tangle
the poseidon circles never stopped
oblique tusk
there are decent intervals
willow tangle
he literally didnt stop for at least 5 minutes
oblique tusk
they absolutely stop
not for 10 seconds or anything
but the calls stop for a few seconds so you can get hits in
quartz rapids
@thick sedge holy suck that's a beautiful tree
tribal verge
any tips as to what to prioritize when i turn on the heat that limits darkness use?
abstract pilot
dash, death defiance #1, +3 health per chamber, privileged status?
river garden
Can anyone tell me why sometimes i have option "Quit" and sometimes "Give up" takes it place?
oblique tusk
give up is if you've taken damage
naive tusk
@river garden you get Quit when you enter a new room and get Give Up when you eliminate all enemies in a room. The difference is that Quit lets you quick save so you can return to that room next time you load
river garden
Oh now i get it
I was wondering why i couldn't quit when clearing the room
Kinda strange that you have to get to the fight to quit the game and save position
Its usually the other way around
unkempt pagoda
?
quit happens when you autosave before every room and after you pick up your reward
if you take damage or are in the middle of choosing a boon, give up appears, which will spit you back in the courtyard
you get to quit before and after every combat
river garden
I just cleared the room and didn't have "Quit"
elfin wagon
I created this wiki page for more info
After clearing the room, claim your reward. You should be able to Quit
mild crag
@pallid dagger because it'll stack too much if you're too good at clearing the small rooms
It does work on the larger rooms however
elfin wagon
Maybe they can adjust the increase. +0.2 or 0.5% damage increase instead of 2%.
It was definitely confusing first time when Plume and Butterfly doesn't work, but Charons well does and run out quickly.
But I'm very glad Rare Crop will count down in Styx.
earnest compass
what does peronsal liability do in hell mode?
strong verge
If I don't pick up a duo boon, is there a chance I can get it again?
mild crag
You don't get the invincibility you do in normal mode after taking a lot of damage
@Jaime (Naoko/Cyrus)#0597 yes
strong verge
Cool.
mild crag
Man somehow I failed that ping apparently
earnest compass
what would be considered a lot of damage?
mild crag
I don't know what exactly, it may be a % of your health
unkempt pagoda
not entirely sure, but it's a big percent of your health in a sec or two
unkempt pagoda
guan yu used to trigger it a lot if you got hit
mild crag
But it stops you getting one shot
unkempt pagoda
mostly
mild crag
Yeah it's really abusable with guan yu
gloomy vine
Does "foes" include bosses or is this just normal enemies?
mild crag
What context
gloomy vine
Any context. Stuff like "foes get +20% damage". Does that include bosses?
mild crag
Hard labour does affect them yeah
gloomy vine
So yes then
mild crag
Yes
tawny hare
what is the best companon?
mild crag
But ones that make you face more foes don't affect bosses
mild crag
Sisyphus is the best for most situations
Skelly and Meg are better in other situations
Than and Dusa are limited in usefulness
green sable
neat
im going to try to win with the bow...
lets see if i can pick the right stuff
frail vector
Are there any good sword baed attack builds? Even stacking crit on the second form feels kinda bad
unkempt pagoda
where’s world splitter priest
turbid needle
Double Edge and Nemesis, Aphro or Athena Attack.
frail vector
@turbid needle so stack crit and percentage based stuff, worddddd
hoped there was something more interesting but sword i guess should feel pretty basic compared to the other weapons
turbid needle
I wish World Splitter and Flurry Slash were better.
frail vector
World Splitter is really cool, I love how chunky it feels
just wish the hammers sort of changed the sword playstyle a bit
plush pond
I learned just now that winter harvest works on the final boss which I wasn't expecting.
tidal thorn
How does crit stack? Like if I have the Artemis global crit boon and Nemesis bonus, do they just additively stack?
turbid needle
Yes.
tidal thorn
k. ty!
green sable
Lets see whats good boons with bow.
marble ridge
Artemis lol
green sable
lol
frail vector
which aspect?
frail vector
Guan Yu with Artemis / Aphordite duo boon and artemis attack plus weak special
is really really good
Fast jab + Posideon with zeus duo boon is really good
especially if you get posideon and zeus status effects for extra damage
tawny hare
Okk thank you :D
plain pewter
another absurdly high dps spear build is dio's damage over time on the lifesteal attack
since the projectile hits multiple targets simultaneously, has a really fast tick rate and hits multiple times it procs about 5 stacks of poison extremely fast
wild fiber
what's everyone's thoughts on Guan Yu atm?
I know people were thinking it was a bit weak at launch
plain pewter
I would have never immagined that being the case? i thought everyone would instantly assume it was one of the best weapons/aspects
trail timber
Wew
plain pewter
my opinion is that lifesteal effects are way too strong in any types of rogue likes. they're typically combated by reducing your hp pool but allowing you to gradually increase it until lategame
frail vector
Also Guan Yu going throgh walls is SUPER strong
trail timber
Exagryph Rocket Bomb + CLuster Bomb + Artermis Crit is pretty damn satisfying
frail vector
but it not going through terrain would make it kind of useless
trail timber
You basically play as a mobile ICBM launch platform
frail vector
@trail timber I can only plaay that build if I get rocket too, else it just feels too slow
plain pewter
and while the aspect trades some consistency by forcing you to focus more on health increases, the aoe projectile is way too significant, safe, scales amazingly well into lategame and can often allow you to just spam it and get away with. in a way i feel like it kind of betrays the general difficulty that nearly every other weapon provides, it is also insanely fun and i can see myself maining the guan yu aspect.
frail vector
@plain pewter heat can offset that and I don't think it's bad too have strong weapons
plain pewter
i agree
frail vector
I'd rather have things be very fun and very strong and the game compensates with extra challenge
I really wish they would add another area after Hades because it feels so bad to really have a sick build cooking but not really get to play that long with it
Like If I "complete" my build halfway through Elysium, I feel sad
plain pewter
i feel like the weapon belongs well in the game, but im generally under the impression that its one of the easiest strategies thus far
trail timber
Lambent Plume, but increasing difficulty each time you clear a room quickly?
frail vector
@trail timber Maybe! I always prefer scripted encounters over modifiers though
plain pewter
what if the timer becomes progressively shorter?
frail vector
Like, the additional bosses heat modifier is AWESOME because it significantly changes encounters and I love that.
I kind of don't like when things are just, 15% more of this, 60^ more of that
plain pewter
i think that's the single best heat modifier in the game
i agre with that %100 @frail vector
frail vector
Although it's funny how The Furies & Hydra with that feel way harder than the changed Elysium fight lol
thorny edge
guan yu is amaziing in low heat but i imagine it'd be super hard with heat
trail timber
What if the Fates begin to mess with you by doing a sneaky on the door reward, just to mess with planned run?
plain pewter
depends on the types of heat you're using i guess
thorny edge
increased damage means more likely to get one shot and forced overtime makes spin charge basically necessary
plain pewter
ofc the most detrimental one would be the increased enemy damage
frail vector
You know what might work. You know how Hades puts his minions on you in rooms occasionally? It'd be interesting if more things like that happened. Encounters brought on by different gods that you can't control.
plain pewter
but otherwise it deals quite well with most enemies and other buffs
honestly i think increased damage makes guan yu way more interesting to play
frail vector
The only issue I have with Guan Yu, is not getting fast charge hammer. It feels horrible
plain pewter
the 50 health flat is perfect on the lowest aspect level, and without the extra damage or health increases it feels like a way too generous approximation of what they had envisioned with its design
y'know. extremely high commitment build that rewards an aggressive playstyle but you can easily lose a life if you don't pay attention
frail vector
@plain pewter Well, it's like you were saying earlier
tiny portal
Is Athena Dash bugged when using the spear dash attack? Specifically Aspect of Guan Yu? It literally doesn't deflect anything and the little shield graphic doesnt appear when dash attacking
frail vector
with most roguelites, the issue is that as you get better, you care less about mitigation and more about damage
Why worry about getting hit, when you don't get hit and can just orbital laser everything?
Tons of damage > Defense all day
plain pewter
ye. just dealing damage way too fast is always more effective than spending as much time in a room as possible
unkempt pagoda
i like how they reintroduced life steal in a fun and interesting way
plain pewter
and the game is designed in many ways to insentivise hurrying up
reintroduce? i haven't played any pre steam release patches so i don't know much about old lifesteal effects, tell me about that
unkempt pagoda
it was reaaaaally old, like first patch removed it old
it was basically just a life steal hammer for the sword that was op
plain pewter
yeeah. i can see why sword wouldn't need lifesteal
thorny edge
it has a lifessteal hammer again now
plain pewter
its like if they gave invinsibility frames to the shield of all weapons
thorny edge
2 hp per per attack (dash strikes dont count), -70% health
plain pewter
but more reasonable and with more hammer upgrades making it harder to find?
thorny edge
never seen anyone say anything other then its awful
plain pewter
yeah, that's the kind of low health tick rates life steal effects should typically reward you with
frail vector
Sword just kind of sucks imo but i was whining about that earlier
plain pewter
but it has to be worth the risk
unkempt pagoda
it was life steal but no hp penalty
tiny portal
Should I submit a bug report about Athena Dash not giving the reflection shield when dash attacking with the spear or is that intended?
thorny edge
i had a run with cursed slash (the lifesteal hammer) and i think it went well enough, besides losing death defiance from single hades spin 😆
unkempt pagoda
i mean, if you wanted op back then, shield’s block used to deflect rather than just negate damage
thorny edge
athena's dash deflect is during the dash isnt it
unkempt pagoda
@tiny portal submit it, doesn’t sound intended
tiny portal
Im also using Serrated Edge maybe that's the bug?
unkempt pagoda
is it just a visual effect or the dash just not working?
tiny portal
The deflect
The deflect works if I just dash
It doesnt work if I dash attack
the graphic isnt there AND nothing gets deflected
unkempt pagoda
odd
tiny portal
I was getting my ass kicked in Elysium and couldnt understand why until I noticed that
plain pewter
what is the general consensus on zeus aspect?
only opinions i've seen regarding shield is that additional boomerangs are the best and zeus isn't that good. personally i think the damage is perfect on it and i love tons of the special boons on it
unkempt pagoda
zeus aspect doesn’t really fit with a lot of people’s playstyles tbf
you just leave it out on its own while you do your own thing
plain pewter
i've previously expressed that i think its only hinderance is actually how the shot is designed, and that if the controls were to be tweaked properly it would improve its consitency immensely.
unkempt pagoda
i’ve still yet to actually get zeus on zeus aspect
frail vector
@plain pewter I think it comes back to speed, why play Zeus right now when you can play Guan Yu?
at least that's my opinion
plain pewter
basically because you enjoy it and they're both perfectly viable options
here's 1 huge issue i have with the aspect. and that is how it scales
i actually found the dmg per tick to just be perfect pre buff at lvl 2
but i've come to realise there's practically no reason to level it up apart from having some extremely moderately higher damage
and usually you don't play it for the actual base damage but rather the fact that the multiple ticks are immensely useful for, any types of debuff procs and a free crit chance increase
also the way the god gague works currently makes it so that zeus aspect fills it extremely quick
trail timber
🤔
Now that you mentioned it.
I managed to fill it in about 30? seconds with Exagryph and Zeus attack.
plain pewter
more so in lategame
in very earlygame its still handy to have a call because that's arguably when its at its most effective
but specially with faster charge boons, its straight up spammable
elfin wagon
Sword should have something like Bloodborne rally system. They used to have that mirror upgrade before replacing with Thick Skin
turbid needle
Zeus on Zeus Aspect is really fun.
I wish there were ways to make Blitz Disc's radius bigger.
plain pewter
also athena reflect with zeus aspect is really really good
turbid needle
Wait, are you saying there's no reason to level Zeus Aspect?
plain pewter
i find it kind of redundant because the dps is already good as is at a certain point
trail timber
oh yea
turbid needle
Unfortunately no Heart Rend that run.
plain pewter
true, for artemis specially that kind of scalling is specially meaningful
however for most other builds its good as is on the basis that its constantly active and its safe even if its not the most consistently landed
turbid needle
Well, Eris is even better for those builds.
rotund wagon
steam link cuz I'm lazy
my only wish is somehow I could load all of my cast by holding down right click
furiously spamming right click before shooting is a game on it's own
mild crag
flurry cast maybe?
hybrid frost
The following is a PSA for the good of all who play Hades:
Many times and for many reasons, a player will make a decision which they soon regret.
Maybe you swapped to the wrong keepsake or bought something from a Well of Charron you didn't want.
Or maybe you just want to test something without commiting to it.
There is hope.
But first you must understand the game's auto-save functions and Give Up feature.
After opening your in-game pause/options menu, just below the selection labeled Display you will see an option to either Quit or to Give Up.
These will both be explained below.
Quiting the Game
The game will auto-save every time Zag enters a new room/chamber.
This means that many things that happen in said room/chamber can be effectively undone simply by using the Quit function before leaving that chamber.
This includes, but is not limited to:
- Anything you buy, sell, or swap in the "between biomes" hallway.
- Anything you do in a chamber after collecting its reward (purchasing items from Charron's Well, selling boons at a Pool of Purging, or trying to loot a Treasure Trove).
- Anything purchased from any NPC in the House of Hades.
- Any interactions or conversations with any NPCs anywhere in the game.
- Upgrading a weapon with Titan Blood.
However, in an effort to prevent certain kinds of in-game "run cheating", certain things will cause the game to replace the Quit option with the Give Up option.
Giving Up
If you Give Up, the current Run will be aborted and you will be returned to the moment you last entered the training room from which you began the run.
This will undo the entirety of the run you just aborted as if it had never happened.
Things That Trigger the Give Up Option (that I know of)
- Taking damage in a chamber before collecting its reward.
- While selecting a Boon.
- Re-rolling a chamber reward using Fated Authority.
- Fishing.
- Entering Chaos chambers.
mild crag
Also triggers give up: interacting with a boon or hammer
(if you try to quit while the selection screen is open)
green sable
wow
rotund wagon
flurry cast doesnt appear when you have aspect of Hera
mild crag
damn I suspected as much
abstract pilot
doesn't trigger give up: picking a eurydice choice 🙂 (worth calling out even though you say npcs)
rotund wagon
kinda make sense when you consider there are stuff like Dionysus cast
patent tiger
Though Quick Reload does stack with Hera. Which is amazing if you Artemis Cast
rotund wagon
How to turn a bow into a sniper rifle: a guide
green sable
neat
bright mulch
When the doom special is hitting for over 500 on your chaos shield run
green sable
wow really?
green sable
that must of been some great ares power boosts
fringe blade
Is there a trick to consistently getting elysium under 7 minutes?
I dont even struggle with 1,2,4 biomes
most of the time
green sable
theres double status?
fringe blade
Yeah
green sable
wow
fringe blade
Im not sure what Im doing overall wrong
green sable
what amazes me is all the darkness and keys i get:(
bright mulch
Yeah it's the "Privileged Status" item on the Mirror
Each rank gives you +25% damage vs. foes afflicted by at least two Status Curse effects.
At 2 ranks (max) you get 100% bonus
The fun part is I believe Doom itself counts as a status
And gets the bonus even though it ends itself to do damage
thorny edge
yeah Doom is a status
bright mulch
So going Doom you get that one extra easy status effect and wham-o dead guys
For elysium maybe try leverageing traps more? They respawn really fast and take out enemies that are a super big pain like the shielder
If you don't have those fast DPS
Oh yeah I also had that one Demter Boon that gives bonus damage when out of cast
It was epic so it was like 30%
So overall big sword drops
fringe blade
oh yeah thanks im probably not doing that enough
thorny edge
Aphrodite, Dio, and Demeter i find the easiest to apply privileged status, since their standard boons apply their curse
zeus, poseidon, athena and artemis need an additional boon to get their curse. ares is short lived but works too
bright mulch
Yeah I often go Athena and when I do I always try to get exposed
Even though I rarely actually get those backstabs cause enemies turn fast lol
Wave Dash -> Rupture is another nice easy proc
thorny edge
its hard to tell when you're actualllly behind an enemy
bright mulch
Yeah not sure how to mark it better though
Can't really put like a circle on the floor because eventually stuff just gets way too chaotic
green sable
i love seeing numbers/results
bright mulch
Is there some kind of log record of attempts? Like some system where I can see summaries of past attempts
I'm super bad at taking the screens for the ending, not in the habit lol
thorny edge
no unfortunatelly
bright mulch
Ah RIp
green sable
sigh
bright mulch
The funny thing too is I wanted the run to be a Hunting Blades Run to work towards my Duo quest
Still don't have it loll
green sable
i haven't gotten it either i don't think im still missing some duo boons for my fates list.
plus i gotta do that Spear quest to
not sure how thats going to work
mild crag
Elysium is just wack in 7 minutes
Timer needs a buff or enemies need a nerf
@clear lagoon the pact isn't unlocked until you beat the game once, so that would be a reason to not have that
clear lagoon
...Not really. Just don't offer that curse until then
Or don't SAY it's a Pact option
It's not like the Pact is a secret, Hell Mode exists and can be started immediately upon purchasing the game
It's not a lore thing either, the Pact has barely any lore surrounding it, and the only thing that triggers lore is Extreme Measures
Which obviously wouldn't make a good Chaos Curse
mild crag
it's not that its a secret, it's hiding the information behind names like "Heightened Security" without having to draw the parallel back to just adds obfuscation
clear lagoon
But you aren't hiding it if you add a tooltip as I suggested.
And even if you have the Pact, not everyone has memorized the names, so you still want that tooltip there anyways
mild crag
Then the tool tips will get really long
clear lagoon
....I'm unclear as to how you think that
mild crag
because you'll need to specify the values
clear lagoon
The tooltip would literally say 'Heightened Security: You take 400% more damage from traps"
In comparison, we already have the life total tooltip that pops up every time you hover over a health restoration option
Which is longer than that
Even if you add "per rank" to the tooltip, the life total tooltip is still longer
mild crag
There's also variance in the values of the chaos curses which won't match up with pact ranks
clear lagoon
I'm not about to suggest something that would take large amounts of effort to do, because then it's just a waste of my time, it won't happen. Nor would I suggest something we don't already have the mechanics for. I've made that mistake previously and I am not interested in repeating it.
The variance in the curse value need not be based on the curse itself, when we also have variance on the number of rooms the curse lasts for
There's no real need for two forms of variance there, and making it so that it is timed by rank makes it easier to see/understand at a quick glance. IE, Normal Chaos Boon, last three rooms, Heightened Security. You notice the high points, you are instantly clear as to what will be happening to you and how long it is happening for
Where as now, you manually read the entire thing and have two forms of variance where only one is needed
mild crag
I think there's quite a bit of effort involved there since it involves rebalancing all of the chaos curses or the pact
clear lagoon
....Why would it require that at all?
mild crag
because the numbers are based on ranges
clear lagoon
.......
Then stop basing them on ranges? Again, two forms of variance are not needed for this mechanic to work and be balanced.
mild crag
that's rebalancing them then
clear lagoon
....
No, no it's not. It's picking ONE value, and then that's it. You aren't changing anything else. You pick a value, and you are done.
The difference between 397% trap damage and Heightened Security is basically meaningless, so.... There's no real change in the example we're debating.
Honestly, a lot of Chaos' Curses already don't have that second variance. Cannot Earn Gold, Inferno Bombs, Chamber Rewards are hidden.....
And some of them that do, do in a meaningless fashion. IE, whenever you X, take Y damage.... The damage amount you are taking doesn't matter, because you just don't want to take the damage, so you just don't use it
mild crag
true they don't and the difference is not much between 397 and 400
but they're distinct mechanics still
clear lagoon
The fact that it varies in how much damage it does, doesn't make you want to use it
Do they need to be, is the point though. Having mechanics just to have them is never good, and I really don't think the second level of variance adds anything here, on the Chaos Curses that have that variance
The ones that vary like that, doublechecking via the wiki, are.... Movement Speed down, Life Total reduction, Trap damage, Cast pickup delay
The only one where the variance may alter gameplay IMO is Life Total. Other than that,,,, You deal with them by dashing more, avoiding traps as you always are, so no gameplay change there, and by not using your Casts at all, because ten seconds to fifteen doesn't change the fact that you are better off pretending you can't pick them up at all
Technically, as I said, the Use X take Y damage ones vary... But they may as well not, because you don't want to take the damage no matter how small it is
pallid dagger
alright i want some advice
my friend who has a huge crush on ares is convinced he is useful. i am convinced that he's bottom of the barrel. i've succeeded in winning a run with him; but, that was due entirely to me getting VERY lucky and landing Vicious Cycle early.
Furthermore, it seems like all that can really be done with him is casting builds/Blade Rifts, similar to Artemis. Anyone have any good tips for Ares builds that don't relegate doom or blade rifts as simple extra damage on the side?
mild crag
@clear lagoon I understand your point but I still think they should remain distinct. Also in response to your other feedback, some normal boons do vary still which I'm sure you'll dislike but just letting you know anyway
@pallid dagger playing a build with the shield which abuses doom special and athena dash with merciful end
clear lagoon
Do they? I can't actually think of one that varies the bonus it gives you, outside of Chaos'
mild crag
Aphrodite's attack is one of them
clear lagoon
Not sure why they would. Consistency is a valuable thing in gameplay
...Seriously? Varying by more than rank, you mean?
mild crag
Yes, the rarity mutlipliers are non constant
clear lagoon
....That is insanely stupid. Players should know what they are getting
mild crag
Epic Aphro attack at level 1 can be +90% to +100%
some boons have multipliers set for rarities
but a lot of them vary too
clear lagoon
Fixed the feedback
....Are these Devs trying to make the game harder for them to balance? Is that a thing?
Adding more work for themselves is just insane
mild crag
I agree with removing the variance on boon rarity because it is strange
whenever they balance a boon
they always seem to fix the mulipliers
like doom attack and special have set multipliers
clear lagoon
Honestly, a lot of my gripes with this game come back to a lack of clarity and consistency, and I'm not clear what Supergiant has against those
Some of the best games around specifically JUST tell you, "Hey, here's the mechanics... Do whatever with them, because they never change, and they allow a lot of options".
Hell, that's the entire appeal of Breath of the Wild
Having set mechanics that interact in a set fashion still allows for a TON of variance between runs, a ton of different options for players to enjoy
shrewd topaz
I just think the tooltip feedback could be better
clear lagoon
^ That would be nice. I don't fancy doing math in my head to figure out my damage, and Support Fire's description hasn't made sense since I picked up the game
mild crag
If they had a stat screen which showed you your total damage numbers i could dig that
or if you're about to pick +100% attack for example on the rail there's something which says (10 -> 20)
clear lagoon
Could add it to the pause screen or the boon screen. Actually, I'd dig it if the Pause screen and the Boon screen were just combined
mild crag
actually damage isnt consistent on attacks
clear lagoon
You obviously aren't playing WHILE looking at your boons, after all
mild crag
so yeah better on a pause or something
clear lagoon
...? That one I'd have to REALLY question. Damage is split into combos which are never explained in game really, but it certainly seems consistent... Unless that's a result of boons specifically adding variance on top of the varying variance they already have
...Also, shoutout to combos being yet another mechanic we're not told about and should be
mild crag
The spear 20/30/30
Is what I meant by inconsistent
I was suggesting showing new damage numbers but each hit of a combo isn't the same so it would be hard to show
Would be strange with hestia's 150 too
But showing your total damage multiplier I like
clear lagoon
That's actually a combo for the spear attack. Which is consistent, just stupid, because we're never told about it, and it doesn't add value to the game to have it in existence
mild crag
Was actually added cause the speer was too weak lol
Don't know why it went to 20/30/30 from 20 every attack though
fair ferry
Hope I'm not interrupting, just a quick question: What does selecting boons on the boon screen do!? So curious, can't find anything online, can't tell.
mild crag
Should've just been 30 every attack
@fair ferry nothing, it just shows a detailed description
fair ferry
WOW okay. Thank you so much that was driving me insane.
mild crag
When it adds the little pin in the top left right?
clear lagoon
Yeah, just 30 every attack would make more sense
fair ferry
Yeah exactly.
mild crag
Yeah just for pinning your favourite boons to show off your build
fair ferry
It just auto-opens the boon screen when you win, so I was afraid it was affecting the boon RNG or something.
clear lagoon
Nah, it was added to make your end of run easier to screenshot and show off.
strong sun
Why do the Elysium enemies attack through walls that the bow can't shoot through? Is there any way the ground projectiles can be made consistent with the players?
It's just an odd thing to see them slam on the other side of a thick wall and it comes out of the ground, while you shoot the bow and it clanks
It's mainly the sheild/sword slam
dusky hull
Does decay work normally on Hades now?
rotund wagon
how to not use the blitz disc
I was starving for boon throughout the run
the only special slot boon I had was from Demeter, and it's common grade
and then demeter turn up once for the rest of the run, giving me the ice wine boon
frosty pier
Yeah I see why you just went with cast on that one.
thin talon
i wish you could play as the other guys like ares and stuff lol and they each have different weapons
clear lagoon
She does specifically say "I will take EVERYTHING away!"
frosty pier
Yeah that Lady has no chill...
bright mulch
@pallid dagger today I had a doom run where it was definitely not extra side damage but the vast bulk
frosty pier
Yeah I'll se myself out.
green sable
stay frostie ❤️
clear lagoon
No, no, bad puns are good
rotund wagon
lmao
clear lagoon
Puns are always a benefit
green sable
You shall be Pun-ished ❤️
bright mulch
Since doom has a high base value stacking damage modifiers gets you way higher faster
rotund wagon
Cheri I am suprised you didnt use that obvious joke yet
you could say Ma'Sair had a pact of Pun-nishment
clear lagoon
LUL
rotund wagon
what does infernal gate do exactly?
mild crag
Sends you to the hell realm where if you clear it without getting hit you get a reward
clear lagoon
It opens into a special room where you need to kill enemies without getting hit
Succeed, you get the reward. Fail, you get an Onion
rotund wagon
what does the onion do
mild crag
Restores 1 hp
clear lagoon
Heals you for exactly one HP
rotund wagon
bruh
clear lagoon
And makes you feel bad
copper citrus
You need about 60 onions for a complete codex anyway, sooo..
mild crag
And hades is like bahahah
clear lagoon
Which is my exact excuse when I get an onion
shrewd topaz
Haven't managed an onion yet thankfully
frosty pier
Imagine getting an onion just to make Hades feel a bit better...
And then steamroll his face with Ares cast.
clear lagoon
Oh no, my excuse is that I don't yet have the codex complete, I don't care about Hades
rotund wagon
Hades: I shall laugh at your predicament. Also my wife left me and my now-wife only stay because she pity me.
clear lagoon
Is Nyx even his wife?
rotund wagon
I guess? It could be entirely a for business basis
and uh what sort of reward does the infernal gate offer
clear lagoon
It shows you on the gate
clear lagoon
Basically, whatever a chamber reward would be, but miniboss level. So, a double pom versus a single pom
clear lagoon
They do require 5, 10, and 15 heat respectively, to enter them. Per Biome
rotund wagon
ok Hades
obtuse tapir
One good thing about that onion room is that the encounter is usually objectively easier
Like if you want to preserve life entering there isn't a bad option especially in elysium
one boon can't really justify having 120+ life loss (super possible with 15+ heat and some bad enemy combinations)
mild crag
They can also take longer too though
Cause of playing safe
So don't take in elysium with deadline
rotund wagon
ahahahaha
Blitz disc kiting is a game on its own
throw the disc, call it back, and just dash and run while having the disc follow you and wreck havoc behind you
frosty pier
Yup works miracles on chariots and skeletons in lavatown.
fair ferry
Stygian blade seems hugely underpowered.
shrewd topaz
Feel like whenever I use stygian blade, I'm just constantly dash attacking. Anything that would require extra commitment is just too risky
fair ferry
Even dash attacks are risky. Special at the edge of the range might be the safest but the damage vs. bosses using that is abysmal.
frosty pier
Depends on a hammer honestly
fallow niche
Blade is the weakest easily, especially Zag aspect
Blade hammers are also the worst hammers for any weapon
I think that might actually be the biggest reason why
mild crag
Don't listen to propaganda from this poseidon sword user
fallow niche
I use Nemesis aspect every now and then
And it just feels like the weakest weapon in the game when I do
It does plenty fine DPS but any weapon does plenty DPS when you build them right
It lacks any defensive ability
And I still want to avoid hammers
mild crag
Cast is swords best attack 
fair ferry
Yeah every weapon beats it in damage and range
I've been trying to cycle through weapons with the darkness bonus but I might start skipping the blade, it's so rough. >_<
frosty pier
Skelly give me back my blood, you boner!
shrewd topaz
At least with spear you're pretty versatile and have the range to play it safe
fair ferry
I guess there's something to be said for a challenge though.
fallow niche
Poseidon Sword is for real men
Gotta go fast
^ picture of poseidon in his natural habitat
karmic coyote
poseidon is an odd way to spell zag
fallow niche
hilariously zag aspect is infinitely slower
because you take so much more time clearing rooms
karmic coyote
do my eyes deceive me
fallow niche
yes
fair ferry
I managed to get Poseidon's Special and the water damage on bounce, and once that happened rooms just got shredded. But the boss got me because I'm not quite good enough at him and Sword didn't help.
fiery shale
how do we feel about guan yu?
shrewd topaz
Knock back doesn't do much for bosses unfortunately
fallow niche
poseidon's boons are good at clearing normal trash but suck hard against bosses, that's his gimmick really
karmic coyote
oh so you weren't actually calling Zag sword slow? phew i almost commit 28 stab wounds on you
fallow niche
@fiery shale very safe
shrewd topaz
Guan Yu is actually pretty strong, ironically I like the special more than the charge attack
fair ferry
Haven't used Guan Yu yet! Looking forward to it
fallow niche
guan yu + the right boons is probably what newer players should stick to
shrewd topaz
If you use it, it definitely benefits from the blood investment
fallow niche
dont ever use poseidon on it tho
you will lose
its worthless to use without max level imho
fiery shale
i'm having a hard time fighting bosses with it because -70% health penalty is rough but i imagine i'll be fine once i level it a bit
hades has gotten me a few times due to it
fair ferry
I gotta head to bed, thanks for the validation all 👍
fallow niche
sleep well skye
fiery shale
i just maxed hestia, then i'll max zeus, then chiron then guan yu probably
so.. much.. blood
fallow niche
yikes zeus
fiery shale
what's wrong with zeus :C
fallow niche
its bad 
fiery shale
is it actually? lol
frosty pier
You bad
fallow niche
its a favorite of people who struggle at 5 heat 
native ether
Zeus Shield? People have been liking it a lot more this update
Its damage was what, quadrupled?
fiery shale
the thing i dislike about it is that the blasted thing doesn't count as a special
only like the .0000000001s cast animation does
native ether
other perk is that Chaos shield got a decent nerf with the new radial pattern
fallow niche
yeah it was needed
chaos is still the best shield
since zag shield is basic stuff and zeus shield is unreliable
fiery shale
i like zeus. it's fun to dash around and make it chase you with a nice DoT
native ether
Zeus is likely not unreliable if you know how to play around it
fallow niche
I know how to play around it and its still the worst shield
native ether
similar to Eris. People who say Eris is bad are the ones who don't really know how to use it. (Though Eris is much easier to play around than Zeus shield).
fallow niche
Not going to take the whole skill thing when I've beaten 32 heat with it before
And Eris is very good
fiery shale
eris is nice i just enjoy hestia
native ether
Oh it is. Which makes it even more confusing that there are people who say its bad :p
fiery shale
one shotting stuff feels nice
native ether
But nah the real thing I came here to meme is "sword bad". Saying sword bad is like saying beetle juice 3 times, except it makes me appear instead of the band
fallow niche
I mean sword is real bad
native ether
pfffft
fallow niche
Zeus shield can laugh at it too
Even Hades aspect spear laughs at it (while crying a little bit too)
karmic coyote
sword and shield is bad
native ether
sword aint bad. Poseidon and Nemeis Aspect output so much damage. Plenty of viable builds.
fallow niche
only exception is Poseidon aspect which gets around the whole sword thing
because it doesnt rely on the wep at all
shrewd topaz
Shield is the easiest to pick up. and Nemesis is viable sure but it's nowhere near as consistent as the other weapons
fallow niche
nemesis puts out damage but so do so many other aspects
it has no defensive ability
native ether
You just gotta be careful and not take hits, or build tankier to account for taking more hits
You don't need a defensive ability if you can dodge or get Athena dash :p
fallow niche
except all other weapons benefit from those same skills even moreso
and saying the sword needs athena dash to be good is ooftown
and probably accurate 
shrewd topaz
Yeah, everything benefits from Athena dash
fallow niche
^
shrewd topaz
Unfortunately it feels like sword needs it
native ether
It helps the sword, in no way does it need it.
I unironically run the Zagreus Aspect though on the Sword
fallow niche
you can run it