THIS IS GREAT
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
serene nexus
Third level of forced overtime for the insane people?
fallow niche
no sadly
dapper bridge
ah thats fine
serene nexus
30-60-100?
serene nexus
I know but 100% forced overtime sounds hilarious to watch
fallow niche
the AI is basically breaking
dapper bridge
yeah
zinc oasis
-better call that a bug coz not expected
serene nexus
LMAO
fallow niche
the big hammer dudes aren't moving
like at all
if it get in range they instasmack me
dapper bridge
theyre going too fast for your mortal eyes
atomic mist
They should put that in as a secret of some kind. Turbo mode Hades 
serene nexus
let’s have Forge have fun with the 100% forced overtime
zinc oasis
They're moving but you can't seem them
zinc oasis
Lightspeed monsters
fallow niche
they also spawn in at 100%
serene nexus
That’s what I’m hoping for the later aspects. You stumble upon a secret room with a secret boss and defeating them gives you what you need for a new aspect
fallow niche
even with the weird glitch stuff this might be usable for speedrunning if we could roll back the patch then patch forward like this
the spawning in at hyperspeed is really good
zinc oasis
Imagine forced overtime 100% and you are 40% slower
fallow niche
yeah the hammer guys are legit broken
they cant move
they just twitch at high speeds
and if you get in range they smack you at mach 10
stray frigate
Turret mode activated
turbid needle
Forge, what did you do?
zinc oasis
Forge: coming at range of smack
Hammer dude: Omae wa mou.... Shinderu.
dapper bridge
NANI?!?!?
zinc oasis
We need some Hades memes
dapper bridge
there's probably some you can find on the subreddit maybe?
im not sure if many memes get posted to the discord unfortuunately
the community is relatively small I think
fallow niche
crap i killed him
gonna restart back to save
but before i do i gotta see miniboss speed
dapper bridge
yeah i really want to see this
turbid needle
Nope.
stray frigate
BIG BULL BLENDER
dapper bridge
that is terrifying
north pendant
At 100%, You'd likely just be insta-wiped
north pendant
Got places to go, gotta follow my rainbow--
stray frigate
And talking even faster
north pendant
The Olympian aid he gets during that fight would likely also insta-kill you unless you have greatest reflex or the evasion boons
zinc oasis
The freaking Chariot
stray frigate
imagine chariot with 100 lol
zinc oasis
Imagine the little Chariot rolling at 100% speed to just blow up your face
dapper bridge
this is what nightmares are made of
stray frigate
serene nexus
The large chariots
north pendant
100% for the final boss would just be you immediately spawning back at the house
serene nexus
You’d be dead instantly
solid cairn
why have so many hades patches been over 1.5 gb
zinc oasis
Even in 144p it would be great
zinc oasis
Crying
fallow niche
or doesnt capture the window
north pendant
Have you tried streamlabs?
fallow niche
or something weird
north pendant
Streamlabs might work out
dapper bridge
just take a screenshot of your hades windwos 60 times a second and then put them in a powerpoint presentation and click really fast
ezpz
turbid needle
The best player on the server did.
I think Quick Spin is always the best Spear spawn.
dapper bridge
What they said was "Massive psin is better early, quick spin better late"
fallow niche
dapper bridge
so if you think you can survive past asphodel without massive spin, then quick spin seems better
fallow niche
Talking to speedrun discord, apparently this isn't the first time someone got it to 100%
He's talking about maybe getting it to 200%....
jade estuary
whats easier to run, hestia rail or poseidon sword
stray frigate
wait why does Hades started to talk again while dyin?
north pendant
Yeah, not even quick spin helps in my runs
I'm still dying to the furies and forced overtime just kills me
stray frigate
yes Lute prophecy is true now!
woeful stirrup
Is it just me or is one of the music pieces you can play on the Lyre from Bastion?
lament coral
https://i.imgur.com/vjt2R7k.png
Looks like Daedalus is still adding rooms!
@north pendant FO reworked
dapper bridge
100% is a bug though
lament coral
can't you just move it down?
north pendant
dapper bridge
interesting
north pendant
No wonder I've been having wonky runs today
dapper bridge
I wonder why this is only happening to some people
Forge got it a couple hours ago as well
stray frigate
mb with those who had it maxed
abstract pilot
i think if you had points in it already over the number that is the new max
abstract pilot
i had two points in heightened security even after one of the patches
north pendant
I did, before the update
heady stream
For Concentrated Fire for the Exagryph, what does an interruption count as? Does a reload reset the timer? Attacking another enemy?
manic ermine
Its a timer between hits, you can miss a shot and keep up the counter
heady stream
First run with a Exagryph, just got a hammer
serene nexus
Explosive Fire, Triple Bomb are good.
Quick question. Does Explosive fire benefit from Hestia’s reload damage bonus
stray frigate
@serene nexus explo fire lost his stun(
turbid needle
Yes, the AoE gets the damage bonus.
serene nexus
Meh that’s fine with me. I like the utility of your shots being able to clear multiple enemies anyway. Especially with Hestia
stray frigate
Hestia not my weap
serene nexus
I think I was able to see the hit box of explosive fire as well when I was running Demeter dash. It’s actually quite neat. It’s a single hitbox surrounded by half a dozen smaller hits
stray frigate
i miss so many shots
jade estuary
how is hestia rail as good as gyuan yu / chaos shield
i can never get it to workw ell
turbid needle
It's got the highest base damage of any Attack or Special in the game.
craggy zinc
Dude, I can’t even beat 0 heat
lament coral
32 is actually easier now that Forced Overtime caps at 40% while giving a whooping 6 heat!
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/671846251775655956/unknown.png I want them all please help a brother in need
craggy zinc
15 or so before the update, 17 after the update launched (I intentionally wiped my file clean when the Winter update came out)
lament coral
I'd take either spread or explosive if you care about the Eris buff
unkempt pagoda
delta chamber is just a worse infinity chamber, albeit with a cooler name @heady stream
stray frigate
@craggy zinc why?
novel python
Well I've seen haelian doing it with rocket too
sacred idol
Was the Zagreus spear rework a buff or a nerf overall?
lament coral
I'd say buff
stray frigate
@sacred idol huge buff as i heard
lament coral
they reduced the speed and range but increased the damage
unkempt pagoda
it’s less percent overall but it’s to range, speed, AND damage
sacred idol
Also, how's this Guan Yu spear, what's it do
unkempt pagoda
rather than just speed and range
serene nexus
Also... how would it work if the spear was reworked so the SPIN was the special and the throw is holding down the attack key like a charged attack?
novel python
lowers your max HP by50% and the healing that you get
but your spin attack heals you
And it has slightly higher base damage
sacred idol
damn, neat
lament coral
it's also better with the boom spear hammer now, because its new base damage is enhanced by 25%
unkempt pagoda
guan ya is just an overall better spear, but with a health debuff
sacred idol
Is it worth using below maxed aspect?
craggy zinc
@stray frigate Wanted to start fresh to commemorate the update. That’s all
lament coral
GY is the nuts
novel python
Looks like you like to live dangerously
lament coral
nah, just don't get smacked
novel python
And get athena attack
lament coral
its spin and special both are busted
novel python
With exposed and artemis duo
potent wedge
is it true, no more budget cuts?
lament coral
attack is too slow for my taste
novel python
And you're set
potent wedge
i might go back to hell mode!
lament coral
yep, I've finally maxed out my mirror
sacred idol
Man, I basically haven't touched the game since my first clear before Long Winter
How hard was Athena dash nerfed
lament coral
farewell, common boons!
they basically reduced the deflection window to match dash's i-frames better
sacred idol
...that's almost nothing though, isn't it
lament coral
it's very subtle
sacred idol
dash iframes were extremely tiny last I played
...Adamant Rail no longer staggers enemies, why was base fire nerfed?
sacred idol
Mmm, I also see Nemesis sword got nerfed. Still good?
lament coral
rail never staggered enemies by default
unkempt pagoda
^
unkempt pagoda
slow is now given to explosive fire, rather than stagger
lament coral
yeah, Nemesis is still good
sacred idol
oh wait, stagger/slow are different
But seriously, why nerf the base shot, which is already kinda bad...
without a buttload of procstacks
lament coral
I'd say it's better than Poseidon at higher heat due to Poseidon's inability to deal with blue shields
sacred idol
...also, wait, they reworked infinity chamber but it's even worse? what
lament coral
you still don't need to reload
unkempt pagoda
it’s in three shot bursts, rather than continuous
lament coral
and it's actually good for status stacking and Zeus
Dio, Ares, Zeus, Demeter
because the burst is faster than shooting 3 times normally
sacred idol
Seems like a waste of a hammer, though
lament coral
and the downtime between bursts is less than the reload duration
it's still the same principle, you never need to reload
sacred idol
yeah, and it was always a bit of a waste...
lament coral
I mean, I liked Infinity on my Zeus attack rail runs
fallow niche
Mmm just got a Zag Explosive Spear build done
turbid needle
Infinity Chamber was so good they needed to nerf it, lower its DPS.
fallow niche
14 minute hades
sacred idol
If it synergizes with Concentrated Fire then I guess that's viable now?
lament coral
so Delta goes along with that
fallow niche
sadly the full build didint come up
lament coral
@fallow niche wouldn't GY be better?
fallow niche
But most of it did
God no @lament coral
Its slower and does less damage
25% buff from Zag is better
sacred idol
Also, is it still incompatible with Flurry and Spread Fire?
turbid needle
Yup.
lament coral
but you have to get the hammer
fallow niche
Also GY has the massive health debuff
lament coral
GY has a 50 base
turbid needle
👏 BRING 👏 BACK 👏 COOLING 👏 CHAMBER 👏
fallow niche
Its also really slow and why are you not doing spin on GY
That's just bad
You're health is halved
turbid needle
Cooling Chamber and Spread Fire was absolutely disgusting and I need it again.
lament coral
I loved the charge special on GY
sacred idol
Also, Zagreus Aspect is still awful, I see
fallow niche
On what?
lament coral
especially when I didn't get any spin hammers
sacred idol
Possibly the least useful blood upgrade in the game, Zag rail
fallow niche
Then you got screwed lul @lament coral
lament coral
that's the GY life
fallow niche
@sacred idol zag sword would like a word with you
lament coral
you live by the hammer, you die by the hammer
lament coral
except I didn't die
sacred idol
+12 ammo, which A) is useless if you do like delta chamber, and B) is just useless in general, because if you want concentrated fire, then you are better off with delta probably
fallow niche
allows me to do flurry or explosive launcher hammer
sacred idol
@fallow niche oi, going fast is fun
fallow niche
its worse than zag rail
sacred idol
no?
lament coral
see, that's why I suggested giving Zag rail Run'n'Gun
fallow niche
zag sword is a mediocre melee
lament coral
so you could move while shooting
sacred idol
zag rail has almost 0 use cases, when do you have time to literally stand there and fire 18 shots or something uninterrupted?
fallow niche
zag rail is the worst rail but even the worst rail is infinitely better than zag sword
serene nexus
Lol
lament coral
imagine being able to shoot without reloading while moving and dashing?
serene nexus
Most of us just dash cancel reload anyway so...0
lament coral
SGG are just holding Zag rail back
otherwise it'd take over the game, and the world
sacred idol
@serene nexus That's exactly why Zagreus rail is useless.
Because everyone just dash reloads.
fallow niche
zag rail needs a rework but not as much as zag sword
turbid needle
If you always reload during a dash, even when you don't need to, you're wasting valuable DPS.
sacred idol
Anyone who doesn't is either insane or using Delta+Concentrated dakka for memes
fallow niche
^
lament coral
does Conce even work with Delta?
fallow niche
Zag rail hinges on hammers is the only thing
sacred idol
I mean, you'd do more DPS using Eris or Hestia rail either way, right
fallow niche
Even with hammers zag sword is awful
Because sword hammers are poo
Compared to all other weps
sacred idol
@lament coral it'd suck if it didn't, tbh
lament coral
I never got both of em
lament coral
also, they increased life leech amount of sword's hammer instead of reducing max HP penalty?
sacred idol
Like... which companions are the best now, for one
fallow niche
best companions are meg/bouldy/skelly
sacred idol
And did the nerfed trinkets stop being awesome
fallow niche
depending on use case
sacred idol
also how much less hydralite, rip
fallow niche
skelly is better on higher heat and if you know how to use him
meg is best for speedrunners
bouldy for general use
sacred idol
I was crutching SO hard on hydralite because I'm bad and crippled as hecc
lament coral
Meg = speedrun, Skelly = Guan Yu, Boudly = everything else
fallow niche
i wouldnt use skelly with GY unless it was high heat
sacred idol
Anyway, some trinkets got nerfed.
lament coral
why not? You don't run maxed out Consequences with GY?
lament coral
really?
sacred idol
Also, I don't get the hate for zagreus sword, because it makes you ZOOM
fallow niche
yeah I hydraskip
lament coral
even with Measures?
sacred idol
Isn't ZOOM good, in general
fallow niche
its easier to skip hydra on EM @lament coral
lament coral
oh?
fallow niche
head is closer to you
sacred idol
Obviously not optimal, but fun...
novel python
why is dio attack on spread fire eris so praised?
fallow niche
it is?
lament coral
it's not?
turbid needle
Puts full stacks on in one or two shots.
lament coral
but, technically, your poison is amped by 60% from Eris
fallow niche
true
lament coral
because that 60% affects everything
sacred idol
rofl, really? nice
novel python
So I guess I need Aphro special for more stacks?
sacred idol
Hestia fallen out of favor, or still great?
full flame
@lament coral this is what i was talking about earlier, room leading to pre-boss room has an infernal gate - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/612382629505007618/671851131877720090/unknown.png
take infernal gate and so pre-boss room and boss room will be one chamber higher than normal - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/612382629505007618/671851131877720090/unknown.png
lament coral
you can beat 32 heat with Hestia without an attack boon
turbid needle
@novel python If you can swing it, try Ares Special and Aphro Dash.
I'd like to see that footage.
novel python
I have Athena dash at the moment
lament coral
@full flame did you ping the wrong person?
novel python
Also I ain't recording, not sure if my toaster would manage
turbid needle
Sorry, I meant about 32 Heat Hestia with no Attack.
full flame
no, i was trying to point out that the boss room isn't always the same # chamber; you seemed pretty adamant that they were
novel python
Ahh
turbid needle
earnest compass
if i am on 1 heat for a weapon but i play it with 5 heat and beat it, is the next requirement 2 heat or 6 heat?
lament coral
also, I noticed that taking Erebus/Chaos in Tartarus extended the amount of rooms
sacred idol
Is blank Court Music a bug?
novel python
What are the odds of getting something else from the infernal troves apart from the thing you're fighting for?
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/671852884681293825/unknown.png is that weak PP even worth taking
lament coral
the only extra you can get is a nectar
lament coral
and I've no idea why they appear
novel python
I see
sacred idol
small pp
novel python
smol
turbid needle
Yup.
lament coral
how does that work?
novel python
Looks like it
lament coral
double fog?
turbid needle
They're almost completely overlapped.
novel python
But I guess more burst damage?
lament coral
cause that's just a flat +90 something damage
turbid needle
Careful, because the opacity gets doubled like you think, buuut if you manage to get Scintillating Feast it's pretty dumb.
lament coral
that's bananas!
turbid needle
Even Common PP is worth taking, but I'd go with one of the other two.
lament coral
those points are weak, get double fog
turbid needle
Yes, Trippy Shot Duo with Zeus.
lament coral
you cannot lose!
novel python
Hmm
So what should I change to get the duo?
As in, I don't really wanna get rid of the dash
turbid needle
Don't get rid of Tirppy Shot.
novel python
That too
turbid needle
Take Dual Shot.
sacred idol
What do I start with here, got Demeter attack special common, and rare dash.
turbid needle
Then, next biome, take Thunder Signet.
sacred idol
Starting out on bow, just farming up the heat 0 rewards.
lament coral
whatever floats your boat
sacred idol
f
lament coral
I'd take dash
sacred idol
I haven't played a single game with Demeter and I haven't touched bow since uh
Well, I didn't get past the hydra on it.
lament coral
on 0?
sacred idol
Yeah, I won once on Hestia rail 3 (all my blood) and haven't played since.
lament coral
take the attack then
sacred idol
So I'm just going through 0 heat, 0 ranks basic weapons, trying to farm out the first rewards
lament coral
nice, you won the game
lament coral
only if they're poisoned
lament coral
you never know!
novel python
Them*
sacred idol
Mmm, Demeter attack feels nice even at common rarity
versed ibex
What's the "perfect catch" thing with fishing?
lament coral
perfect catch?
novel python
You need to pull as soon as you see the sparks
Did it twice myself, you get 2 fishes
lament coral
whaaaat?
versed ibex
ohh, I see. I only ever got one fish
lament coral
does it show an animation for each fish?
novel python
Nah, the images are overlapped
sacred idol
What's good synergy for Demeter
fallow niche
Wow the Chinese guy is an absolute monster, took chaos on 32 heat then proceeded to choose -34 max hp option
lament coral
so there's no indication what so ever?
novel python
I think it says Perfect catch!
Instead of Catch!
or caught
idk
So roll Poseidon or go shop
sacred idol
Hmm. Also. Is the dash strike important on Zag bow?
lament coral
no
novel python
^
sacred idol
Boon rarity or life, then
lament coral
it charges faster but does significantly less damage
full flame
Patroclus got buffed, his attack buff is +60% now
lament coral
nah
sacred idol
Boon rarity it is.
full flame
interesting
sacred idol
Anyone else feel like the bow's zoom-out is really annoying in terms of timing the perfect shot?
lament coral
it doesn't zoom out
novel python
You get used to the timing at one point
lament coral
do you mean the flashing effect?
sacred idol
It does if you're shooting across the map on controller.
For me, the camera pulls out a tiny bit
lament coral
whaat?
you can move the screen with the mouse a bit, I don't know what the gamepad is like
sacred idol
yeah this is gamepad
novel python
I've got 7 boons, I guess the chance for Eury to get my attack to Heroic is too small to try
sacred idol
I'd forgotten how useless the base bow special was without a good boon. What kinds of boons does it use again?
formal basin
Chiron with the charge special now that it's actually usable is a crazy nuke.
novel python
Ares imo is one of the best
lament coral
yeah, Ares is probably the go to option, though Athena is not half bad
deflects everything on the screen
fallow niche
Doom.
stray frigate
doom
stray frigate
like 1 hard hitting poison
sacred idol
Boons of Hermes, Greater Haste/Evasion/Flurry Cast, all common
What's good here...
also, I think I got jebaited a bit. I used Demeter's 'cultivation' thing, and it picked my dash :/
Which was already rare.
lament coral
rip
sacred idol
Wonder if I should just replay this seed now that I know it'll screw me that way
LOL
lament coral
all common is a bummer, I'd take evasion
regal nimbus
look at that admage
600-700 per tick=
would prob eve n be better with artemis special
sacred folio
It's coded like this: Charon always offers a Hermes' Boon at the price of 500 in the Temple of Styx
regal nimbus
and fog cast
heady stream
@sacred folio Does it offer legendaries, or is it just super overpriced?
sacred folio
Lemme see
turbid needle
Does nourished soul benefit cursed sword lifesteal?
it says any heart+ effects are more potent
sacred idol
man, I'm also garbage at Bow
rofl, self owned. bought a chaos gate, got daedalus hammer for the next room.
lament coral
@turbid needle it doesn't affect Gaun Yu's healing, don't see why it'd affect sword's
sacred idol
this 17th run is my most cursed one ever
turbid needle
Thanks, picked it nayways XD probably wrong choice. oh well
sacred idol
Twin Shot, Perfect Shot, or Relentless Volley
sacred folio
@heady stream it doesn't seem to be any different from other occurrences afaict. It's just overpriced.
heady stream
Gotcha. Thank you!
I actually had privileged access this run so it doesn't matter too much
Went for a pom and two other boons
sacred folio
Though I haven't scanned the game's whole data / script so I could very well be wrong.
sacred idol
Can't tell if Twin Shot is good, but I'm bad at power shots consistently...
But that's a lot of damage
turbid needle
Oh nice more damage per tick with ares blades. That might be my key to low life victory : )
regal nimbus
@turbid needle if you skip the hammer it always shows back up later in that act, like in another room or after reroll or in the shop ^^
turbid needle
Well im at Hades right now, so all I gotta do is not get hit twice 😛
And dodge well
Thank god I have so much dodge stacked
full flame
wow, rail felt even better
my new hestia high crit - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/612382629505007618/671861922047721472/unknown.png
full flame
max out Hestia aspect, get artemis dash attack
heady stream
awesome
lament coral
poor Hades
full flame
there's a bunch of other stuff, focusing attack or dash attack damage and crits
but artemis dash attack is a great start
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/671862678444179486/unknown.png @turbid needle Notice me sempai
turbid needle
Cursed sword is unplayable 😦
regal nimbus
@turbid needle no
turbid needle
It's not good either
Very good. Now get a better Special, Thunder Flourish isn't very good with Rail.
sacred idol
Dang. I keep getting boons that ask to replace my current
turbid needle
I mean I nearly beat Hades, second phase 40% hp. But it's not a walk through the park
lol
sacred idol
Rare Divine Strike replaces Frost Strike, Athena's Aid Epic
regal nimbus
look
novel python
I already had exposed from dash and poison for priv stat
turbid needle
Probably with yeah
sacred idol
Frost Strike or Divine on Bow
or should I just take the call
oh wait, no status proc. call it is
acoustic nova
right, so is elysium harder after this? because it feels like I couldn't get into melee without getting hit
pretty annoying though, as it made me cheese from distance instead of using my weapon
stray frigate
@acoustic nova what heat
sacred idol
Patch?
thick sedge
oh
acoustic nova
aaaaah
grand idol
So you might be getting faster attacks without realizing.
acoustic nova
damn yeah
thick sedge
but now it's 3 heat
which is nice
acoustic nova
I think I got the narrowest win that run
grand idol
There ya go then!
sacred idol
What the heck. That's a pleasant surprise.
So I got Dio special and surprisingly, it's pretty sick on bow special...
Not quite the DPS of stacking a full shotgun of doom, but an epic rarity poison stack seems to be fun times on bosses with Chill stacks on top
sacred idol
Just using basic unupgraded Zag bow and that's the easiest I've ever melted a hydra head
acoustic nova
i finally invested in Hera bow today, it's pretty damn great
got the bouncing athena cast, a bunch of chaos +cast damage and crit chance
melted hades when it started bouncing between him and a rock
but I think my favorite run was a pure caster, with hermes' boons
poseidon sword, aphrodite shotgun cast, fast cast, stone magnet
it was different and crazy
sacred idol
Meanwhile... this dumb run went better than expected.
Turns out I lucked into some unexpected synergies
Minotaur seemed easy enough that I might stand a chance in the boss this time.
grand idol
Dude Cluster bomb is so fun, I want it as an aspect.
livid comet
is it??
grand idol
I've no idea if Chill effects anything, but I do love that it is a long lasting status effect so that I can get privileged status easier
sacred idol
Seeing as it pretty much destroys the most obnoxious mobs in the game? It's amazing
I can't count how many times those chariots rolled over me before.
Now with a chill stack or two they're basically stationary.
Even works on bosses
I- what?
Theseus was a joke
Oh hey, wait. I have SO MANY Yarns of Ariadne this run, no wonder my boons are good
grand idol
Holy moly
God dang. Alecto didn't know what was coming. I destroyed her. She was all "You mess with Tis, ya mess with me, stink butt." So anyway I started blasting.
unkempt pagoda
discussion about feedback goes here, btw
grand idol
I know, I was offering advice to the gentleman. Since he saw it, I'll delete it.
So he could edit his feedback or something.
unkempt pagoda
all the same, that could've been done here, but no worries 👍
grand idol
I'll be sure to do that in the future so the cops don't get called on me.
unkempt pagoda
but let's try to keep content in the feedback channel directly related to the game, for sgg's ease
sacred idol
Huh. Athena's Call IS great
stray frigate
top 1
pastel jolt
i take back my constant dissing of shield
ignore that it says i've won with shield 3 times already, those are pre-elysium numbers
stray frigate
wp
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/671873735967375380/unknown.png Exposed or Duo? I feel the exposed would give me more damage than the crit but idk
pastel jolt
i'd go with exposed, assuming you have another status curse already
stray frigate
i vote for duo
novel python
I have aphro on special and athena on attack
sacred idol
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198553698450800640/671874213380096000/unknown.png A very nice run. Not fast, but the boons worked out really well in the end.
stray frigate
imo
pastel jolt
yeah but that's.... spent spirit down there, i think
if you can't dodge a spent spirit slowed projectile what are you doing
grand idol
Holy moly good god. This is one of the strongest runs I've ever had
hollow sorrel
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/527330532259004419/671874486554984480/unknown.png?width=821&height=462 So I guess Zag's damage on hell mode just skyrocketed starting today
turbid needle
I failed once more 😛 Shield basic attack knockback poseidon based build odesnt do much for Hades
stray frigate
Poseidon sre not rly cool for bosses
turbid needle
Sadly not, he's a cool dude tho 😄
Btw I feel like poseidon is one of the best for the pre-hades area
sacred idol
What are the best first aspects to invest in?
faint sonnet
Alright
stray frigate
@sacred idol it depends on blood
faint sonnet
Yeah basically that
sacred idol
I have Hestia up to rank 3, and everything else at 0
faint sonnet
I could tell you what I think is best
faint sonnet
You dont get guan yu immediately
stray frigate
well yes
sacred idol
uh, Guan Yu needs a lot of unlocked aspects
turbid needle
I had the Guan pretty fast but I dont like the weapon or I dont understand it 😛
sacred idol
I could spend the next 9 titan blood on minmaxing Hestia Rail, but then I'd have to heat 0 on all other Zag aspects and grind out heat levels using only the hestia
stray frigate
@turbid needle do some 0 heat runs
to find good builds
i trying to do the same now
sacred idol
But which ones are cost-effective to unlock early?
turbid needle
Honestly Im still at 1-2 heat anyways 😛
stray frigate
@sacred idol Chaos shield
stray frigate
Best weapon in game
sacred idol
Is it still as boring as it was before Long Winter?
sacred idol
Okay, then I'm not going to invest in it till later
hollow sorrel
Chaos shield (because shield is OP). Hera and Poseidon still do their gimmick even at level 1
stray frigate
or Guan yu
sacred idol
oh right. I keep forgetting.
hollow sorrel
I would want Guan Yu at max rank though
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/671876813982531594/unknown.png Honestly, EX Hydra was easier than normal hydra
I kid you not
sacred idol
I don't really understand how to use the Cast builds.
novel python
Smaller space, no need to run around the whole room to killt he heads
turbid needle
I gotta find out to get those companions!
sacred idol
What about Zagreus Spear?
hollow sorrel
Just wait until the RNG makes all the heads spit fire
lone matrix
Quick question, how does extreme measures work on hell mode, cuz i dont see an option to activate it
sacred idol
Like I said, I don't want 'boring efficiency'
hollow sorrel
The achilles spear would probably be my choice for level 1 aspect, but it's a bit awkward if you're new to the game
stray frigate
well i do not play Hell mode
hollow sorrel
like, you purposely bull rush, then your next two attacks/casts have boosted damage
sacred idol
second clear just now with the 0 blood zag bow
hollow sorrel
um, I'm fairly sure achillles spear has a move that looks exactly like a bull rush
stray frigate
but u use ur special not to deal damage
hollow sorrel
And hell mode doesn't feel like hell mode anyone, starting today
stray frigate
but for good positioning and movement
sacred idol
So, is the achilles spear a better early investment or is Zagreus spear strong enough to carry through low heats?
stray frigate
to charge cast
hollow sorrel
when you bull rush, your next two attacks or casts do extra damage
hollow sorrel
Spears are probably my least favorite weapon
sacred idol
Hm. What else for Zagreus aspects, or anything that works below rank 5
hollow sorrel
Nemesis is ok at rank 1, but it's not really a beginner weapon
for the rails, I'd just use the default if it's rank 1. Eris at rank 1 seems like a lot of effort for not so much gain
sacred idol
I don't mind complexity - I'm not that bad. Just raw value for blood, since I only have rank 3 Hestia aspect
stray frigate
@hollow sorrel no much sense to use default
sacred idol
And unwisely sank a lot of blood into it
stray frigate
Eris at least gives u some buff
sacred idol
Also, Ambrosia for Blood early, worth it or not
novel python
They've reversed Zag Spear?
hollow sorrel
I traded some ambrosia for blood early
novel python
I see special damage, range and speed again
sacred idol
Rank 3/5. Can't afford to make it 4 or 5
novel python
And it was + damage per attack iirc
humble warren
you need way less ambriosa than blood, early its def worth it
sacred idol
I'll try a no heat spear run, and if I don't hate it, I might invest in Zag.
Just so I have two weapons viable
Not just hestia 3 until I clear heats for days
How about zag shield?
hollow sorrel
zag shield is just damage reduction. Probably the most boring of the shields
stray frigate
hot a big deal imo
humble warren
zag shield is decent if you just want a passive buff and like the base shield
stray frigate
U dont need DR cus u dont want to ne hit
sacred idol
I just remember one run where it took me nearly 10 minutes to beat the hydra, because it was doing no damage with a lack of attack boons.
humble warren
after nerf its not great though
sacred idol
Ugh.
hollow sorrel
so if you just want a half-decent shield, without needing like 15 blood, then it's good
sacred idol
@PvtRyann#7580 what nerf?
grand idol
I listened to Orenstein and Smough boss fight for Asterius and Theseus. It was good, but my run is so strong I beat them before it looped.
humble warren
they reduced the reduction from 3 to 2 (15 to 10) per rnak/max rnak
sacred idol
Oh oof
hollow sorrel
I think they nerfed the damage reduction, even though I honestly don't think anyone was seriously using it at mid-to-high heat
sacred idol
That seems unnecessary.
humble warren
it probably was lol
stray frigate
Well more heat u play - more dmg u get and DR starts to work better
humble warren
it was decent when i was still a nooby though, but like someone else said, you dont and cant really afford to be hit higher up
sacred idol
Chaos is another story, but base shield? Without good damage boons you may as well be swinging a beanbag.
Screw shield then.
humble warren
zeus shield is my pref shield, most fun for me. just maxed chaos tho so gonna try it
full flame
is it just me, or do burn flingers have longer range for their bombs now?
stray frigate
Bow is cool
sacred idol
Personally did not enjoy sword. Initially didn't like bow, then... I got the build I had
humble warren
zag bow is the best imo. i know lots of people like hera bow but its meh in my opinion after using it a bit. felt like a ton of work for basically no reward since i can cast anyways
hollow sorrel
Chiron might be a damage loss at low level
stray frigate
with some Artemida boons Zag bow may be great weapon
hollow sorrel
because with the base bow, you can shotgun things with the special
you can load casts into the bow
stray frigate
Hera can add Cast to ur AA
sacred idol
Yeah, but what's the point over just casting.
hollow sorrel
so casts that are normally terrible to aim, like festive fog, are much easier to use
humble warren
also hera bow's cast sometimes just doesnt hit the enemy the arrow hits lol
grand idol
Festive Fog is not good for Hera bow
humble warren
(looking at you aphro)
hollow sorrel
yeah, aphro can be shot at range
stray frigate
@grand idol why?
sacred idol
Besides, unranked, it looks pointless.
grand idol
Because it takes forever to get your cast back. You want something that drops immediately when the enemy dies.
sacred idol
Basically just +cast flight speed at that level
That said? Again, I don't understand cast builds much.
stray frigate
@grand idol but other cast are stucking in enemies
grand idol
Not if they're dead buddy boy
hollow sorrel
I'm ok with cast builds on posiedon, since you can readily get your cast crystals back
sacred idol
I've never gotten casts good enough to straight up prioritize over boiling blood.
grand idol
And who doesn't die if they get hit with 3 +50% damage casts?
stray frigate
+50?
grand idol
Pop'em
humble warren
bosses where you then lose your cast for a while
hollow sorrel
I don't think that stacks
sacred idol
Also, that sounds... unfun on someone like Hades.
hollow sorrel
boiling blood doesn't stack
humble warren
oh yea pos sword exists
grand idol
Poseidon sword increases cast damage, @hollow sorrel
hollow sorrel
oh yeah, that modifer
grand idol
Hera just lets you attack with it on an arrow. I don't use hera because it's residentsleeper and feel clunkier than just casting.
sacred idol
@hollow sorrel well yeah, I never got cast boons good enough to build around
grand idol
It takes away a resource rather than adding something different./
sacred idol
Wait, WTF does Hera do exactly.
hollow sorrel
My only issue with bows, is that i'm worrying if I'm stuck with hera, because chiron might not do enough damage for 32 heat
grand idol
Attaches cast to your arrow.
sacred idol
So you press cast and it just loads your next arrow?
grand idol
Yep.
humble warren
adds your cast to your bow on a 10s drop time -5s drop time
sacred idol
And you have to do that every time you fire?
humble warren
yup
grand idol
You don't have to. You can. But you can't cast separately.
stray frigate
no only once per stone
grand idol
It has to be attached to the arrow.
stray frigate
but if u have no stones - nothing happens
sacred idol
Okay, that makes more sense.
hollow sorrel
and you can accidently shoot it into deep lava
humble warren
whats the best overall aspect in each weapon?
sacred idol
Still seems really pointless and awkward to me.
grand idol
Ugh. I love this game, but I loathe anything getting stuck in lava or out of bounds.
humble warren
for me its nem/hades/zeus/zag/hestia
grand idol
@humble warren Chaos Shield is top tier due to a number of factors.
stray frigate
Chaos shield for spear
sacred idol
Kek
stray frigate
and .... Hestia or Eris for rail
hollow sorrel
Guan Yu is probably the best of the spears, because multiple people have 32 heat that weapon
sacred idol
Nemesis/Guan/Chaos/Zag or Chiron/Hestia?
lean badger
man that hestia rail with crit on attack + hammer upgrade to slow enemies in special is run winning combo everytime
sacred idol
Chiron bow sounds super fun actually
grand idol
Hestia is -the- best Exagryph aspect. That snipe shot can scale immensely
sacred idol
Does it disable your normal special, though?
humble warren
no
unkempt pagoda
no
hollow sorrel
Chiron bow is good at lower heat, but its damage can be a bit terrible at higher heat
lean badger
doing 1000+ dmg like it's nothing
sacred idol
Oh, so it just makes attack tag enemies for your special
grand idol
I'm using Hestia Aspect + Cluster bombs. Everything dies.
unkempt pagoda
it just makes your normal special track tagged enemies
stray frigate
@sacred idol it act like normal special
unkempt pagoda
ofc, you have less shots than a regular bow special
hollow sorrel
yes, but it means you can dash in whatever direction, and the arrows still know where to go
sacred idol
@hollow sorrel is it that much worse than zag bow?
stray frigate
but when u mark enemy with ur AA all special arrows flies into mark
sacred idol
Actually. How many shots is a regular special.
stray frigate
Max chiron 7 iirc
hollow sorrel
rank 1 chiron is worse damage than rank 1 zag bow, if you're good at shotgunnung the special for damage on the zag bow
stray frigate
Usual bow is 9
sacred idol
Because honestly, it's not gonna do much DPS single target unless you're shotgunning in suicide range...
Eeeh, shotgun bow is a lot riskier feeling than shotgun rail
hollow sorrel
rank 1 chiron is like 3 arrows, or something bad like that
sacred idol
And harder to hit
humble warren
its 3 to 7
stray frigate
yes
sacred idol
Yeah I meant maxed at 7
stray frigate
why play Chiron when u can play Chaos shield
sacred idol
Missed shots do 0 DPS, so why would maxed chiron be significantly worse for tough targets than zag?
stray frigate
they are so similar
hollow sorrel
I'd still rarhter use something else, then go back to bow when I can get one to a decent rank
humble warren
as someone who just maxed chaos shield and hasnt used it yet (but plans to) what makes it the storngest weapon?
hollow sorrel
I was comparing rank 1 chiron to rank 1 zag bow
sacred idol
Defense+multi bouncing shields stacking absurd damage = cheese?
hollow sorrel
maxed chiron is probably better dps than max zag bow
sacred idol
Also yeah, no, high heat with a rank 1 chiron aspect is obviously stupid.
hollow sorrel
the most important part of shield, is that almost all the terrible attacks are easily blocked
stray frigate
@humble warren 1st u can block everything
2nd u can use special to proc poison all over the room
3rd U CAN BLOCK EVERYTHING
4 Bull rush makes you so mobile
5 YOU.CAN.BLOCK.EVERYTHING
humble warren
so basically chaos shield is strong because shield and the 6x special damage + procs?
hollow sorrel
and the blocking
sacred idol
What even is the Zeus shield?
crimson sundial
Hoo buddy, so I got Scintillating Feast (Lightning Strike in Festive Fog) AND Ice Wine (Festive Fog bursts) and it's wild
sacred idol
What's its throw
stray frigate
well some ppl like it
unkempt pagoda
it's high damage attached to the (only) best defensive tactic in the game
hollow sorrel
the shield floats around, and does ticking damage
grand idol
Man, I -hate- Styx with a passion.
humble warren
30 (max) damage circle like guan attack charge that lingers for a bit. ticks twice a second i think
inner heath
I don't mind styx, but I hate poison
sacred idol
So a buzzsaw?
hollow sorrel
Sometimes I think of trying to do a 32 heat with it, for the lol
sacred idol
Okay, so what makes Guan strong
unkempt pagoda
someone was posting gifs of it doing massive damage earlier
sacred idol
Also how's Hades Aspect.
humble warren
its decent early. ive liked it. granted im on heat 8-12 right now but its helps the shield with bosses and can help kill bosses a lot with the right boon on it
hollow sorrel
if you put athena on attack, the charged attack deflects the whole time it's out
unkempt pagoda
guan yu is literally just a stronger, if not a bit slower, spear
grand idol
I hate styx. I hate them nasty satyrs. I hate their poison. I hate the pot boys.
unkempt pagoda
you are debuffed pretty heavily on health gain and regain though, starting at like 50%? hp
sacred idol
Man, I loved when I got the projectile speed duo boon...
unkempt pagoda
but spin attack regains health and moves
sacred idol
That made satyrs so easy
stray frigate
Aphro Athna?
sacred idol
Yeah
humble warren
with guan aspect you basically have wayy more effective hp than youre losing due to it healing once per hit PER ENEMY in the attack
hollow sorrel
Honestly, I like the idea of guan yu, on everything except the final boss
sacred idol
I had athena dash too.
unkempt pagoda
guan yu's great, made spear fun again tbh
sacred idol
Oh, so guan is that kind of thing. Like the healing sword hammer but not terrible?
humble warren
yup
sacred idol
Doesn't it make hades harder though
hollow sorrel
I don't bother with the healing sword because of the last boss
stray frigate
@sacred idol low hp but great dmg and lifestal
sacred idol
As coffee mentioned
stray frigate
Wasnt lifesteal buffed?
sacred idol
I do think it sounds fun.
humble warren
if it gets a nerf its the spin damage. its base damage is silly high for what it does
sacred idol
If I had a ton of blood, I would definitely go for guan
hollow sorrel
Hades on max speed is super awful, and building your whole character around that one fight is a thing
humble warren
and the faster charge and larger area + damage boons break it even more (moreso the faster charge)
sacred idol
But yeah, anyway, Hades Aspect, good or ick
humble warren
its the best non guan aspect
hollow sorrel
I wouldn't ever want to use the hades spear
grand idol
I just stand next to the weird antipoison pools.
humble warren
for me at least. its a nice passive damage buff
grand idol
And let the satyrs come to me
hollow sorrel
i'd rather achilles spear, and awkwardly get the bull rush damage bonuses
sacred idol
It sounds so... slow and vulnerable without the speedy special hammer.
humble warren
you dont have to full charge the hades aspect for the debuff
sacred idol
And honestly, isn't Zagreus really appealing now
humble warren
so its not really slow at all tbh
sacred idol
Debuff?
humble warren
well, the thing it applies is a debuff to the enemy
sacred idol
Did anyone actually try zagreus spear now?
humble warren
and every time you hit an emeny with the ahdes spear debuff it refreshes the time (even if its a regular attack)
hollow sorrel
Budget cuts being a 1 heat modifier is so lol
grand idol
If you hold down fire with Exagryph on Cerberus he barks at you really fast.
Very funny
fallow niche
Don't shoot the dog!
stray frigate
how dare you
grand idol
Because, it's very funny. And if you say you aren't gonna do it next time you run Exagryph. You're lying.
stray frigate
after all this he still loves you
humble warren
doggo best character
fallow niche
I wouldn't be lying because Cerberus best doggo
stray frigate
300% best boy confirmed
fallow niche
I'm not a psychopath
fallow niche
(at least with doggos, I love my dogs)
stray frigate
and saw Cerberus here
and when Zag said "There is nothing more say but... to arms!"
rugged apex
there's a reason Cerberus is the guardian of hell and it's because he's way harder to defeat than... final boss
sacred idol
Oh wait, SPECIAL is different from charge...
Oh yeah. Now I do want the zag spear.
I love the throw.
stray frigate
@rugged apex i have another question
faint sonnet
I have like
stray frigate
why Hades keep sending Cerberus if he dont stop us anyway
faint sonnet
4 legendaries in this run rn
stray frigate
@faint sonnet Hermes?
rugged apex
because Hades is hoping the satyrs will get us
humble warren
@stray frigate why does hades keeep going if we just die to lawn equipment?
faint sonnet
Hermes, Zeus, Poseidon and Demeter
stray frigate
@humble warren everytime we die from different reason
cool
okay
it almost morning
sacred idol
I haven't even seen one legendary boon
stray frigate
and i still didnt sleep
sacred idol
How the heck do you do that
sacred idol
One thing I don't understand is why so few spear hammers buff the normal attack
humble warren
because they want the spear to be bad 
stray frigate
Imagine HB with Arte and Ares leg
sacred idol
Except it's not bad
stray frigate
And some extra ares boons
faint sonnet
HA
sacred idol
Just that it doesn't have enough variations of basic attack
faint sonnet
THE SCREEN FROZE TRYING TO KILL HADES WITH THE 10%
sacred idol
F
humble warren
guan spear is def not bad. the others are...to be desired
humble warren
but thats just my opinion ofc
grand idol
Nice nice, congrats!