I've gotten that before
#h1-builds-and-combat
fallow niche
round stirrup
i hope i manage something like that next time i play
woeful stirrup
Those Styx fishies are such a great source of gems. Get between 80 and 100 gems a run from them.
fallow niche
Yup
burnt rune
I liked seeing Poseidon comment on how much I was fishing lol
round stirrup
so far ive only gotten him commenting on the existance of the rod
livid comet
honestly dialogue is so good in this game
livid comet
Like how the gods comment on the boons you have
round stirrup
honestly i hope that some characters get more dialogue
livid comet
yeah
burnt rune
he mentions something like ||"I see you are catching a lot of habitants of the sea lately, but that's fine, there's loads more here!"||
livid comet
I still haven't finished a run 😦
round stirrup
like maybe being able to talk to Asterius after a warm-up with him
fallow niche
yo poseidons line is great
livid comet
wait... how does food work in Hades? You kill something and cook it... but isn't everything dead??
burnt rune
Asterius has quite a bit of dialogue actually
round stirrup
the ghosts just like the feeling
livid comet
fallow niche
I SEE YOU'RE CATCHING MANY FISH NEPHEW WE HAVE MILLIONS MORE AAAAAAAAA
round stirrup
they want to feel like theyre still alive somewhat
turbid needle
Poseidon is... Worrying.
round stirrup
even though theyre very much dead
burnt rune
try to reach the boss encounter ||carrying an ariadne thread|| multiple times, and also fight them ||with extreme measures turned on a few times, then turn it off and fight again||
burnt rune
he does have double exclamation marks lol
fallow niche
he needs like 50 for his volume level
and manic yelling
grandpa pls calm down
your hearing aid is malfunctioning again
round stirrup
When I got Poseidon and Zeus's duo boon, the dialogue before i got the boon included Poseidon saying "Oop" and now I can't stop imagining him shouting "SKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSKSK"
last nacelle
Throw some sea noises in the background for him to yell over.
woeful stirrup
But if I don't yell you can't hear HOW COOL I AM
burnt rune
poseidon/demeter duo dialogue is also great
"we all like water in liquid form more right"
fallow niche
demeter scares the crap out of me
fallow niche
all of her dialog is serious 
territory
the bit with dionysus is also hilarious and frightening
burnt rune
there's two with dionysius, IIRC
fallow niche
I know I called it a few weeks before the update, but just how bad is it on the surface right now?
burnt rune
in both she threatens to freeze the grapes lol
last nacelle
Subquest where you find grandma's meds.
burnt rune
I mean, she is searching for the same thing you are
fallow niche
More than even Aphrodite
I don't think she's searching? She's just letting hell loose... err... freeze over? Lol
burnt rune
she absolutely is
fallow niche
I guess by helping you she's doing both
burnt rune
get more dialogue with her
fallow niche
Lmao
I have gotten all her dialog
As far as I can tell
She's just repeating stuff
Now
last nacelle
She'll eventually succeed if she just kills everyone.
fallow niche
shoutout again to the "I MUCH PREFER LIQUID WATER" line
woeful stirrup
At the end of the game, Zag finds Persephone and she's just an icicle somewhere because of her mom's tantrum.
turbid needle
Poseidon: "I'm the best!" [older brother and sister walk in] "I mean 3rd best."
fallow niche
hahahahaha
torn wasp
we do need fire boons in the game
burnt rune
I feel like every other character calls out Poseidon lol
fallow niche
Btw who's her VA? She does an absolutely chilling job with her
@torn wasp Sadly Demeter is the last god before release
burnt rune
Credits: Demeter (Laila Berzins) added to voice cast;
fallow niche
We're getting a weapon next and that's probably it before final release update
Laila Berzins, gotta remember that name
grand idol
Yo, can't wait until tomorrow. Getting a proper controller that will actually work with Hades
torn wasp
That's all good
fallow niche
Yup
woeful stirrup
Last planned god at least. Could be changes to that. But I guess that would dilute the boon pools more than they already are, which would not end that well.
fallow niche
^^^
true but adding a god is a whole lot of work
I imagine they would advertise that in advance like they did here
round stirrup
helios would have totally been a great foil for Demeter
torn wasp
Yeah, lots of contextual voice lines to be added
quartz heath
i just started and damn
grand idol
I sure hope the game doesn't release with Hades being the final fight
fallow niche
We'll likely get our last chance to know if one is coming when the weapon update drops two months from now
And their plans for 1.0
Yeah same @grand idol
last nacelle
The real escape was the friends you made along the way.
serene isle
@livid comet I'm a gross sword main. It really depends on which sword you're using, but if you're just using regular Zag sword. You want to basically focus on things that benefit off decently fast attacks. Zeus' Attack boon scales very well with attack speed.
The sword also Dashes a LOT, so you might find an extra benefit in taking a dash boon that deals damage each time you do it (Zeus/Aphro/Dio are good).
round stirrup
Constant burning optimism and stuff alongside firey burning boons to deal DoT
livid comet
I haven't gotten any other aspects than the base
fallow niche
Hades is a cool boss fight... for a shorter game. But after killing him over a 100 times now if all I have to do is wipe him across the floor again to get an ending... I'm not sure how I'll feel about the game overall
So far everything else is amazing
Love this game and SG have done it again with another incredible experience
But if it just... ends with a cutscene like that, idk
That feels really underwhelming
But I don't think they'll do that
turbid needle
I am 99.9% sure getting the true ending will not be as simple or as short as that.
fallow niche
Yeah
tawny ivy
it's an interesting problem for Supergiant to solve, for sure!
burnt rune
don't worry, you are gonna have to wipe Hades mounting on Cerberus next :v
fallow niche
pfft
last nacelle
They shouldn't add more to the main event because then it becomes too long. They could add side challenges.
fallow niche
No I actually disagree
its really short right now
At least it feels that way after I've run it so, so many times...
last nacelle
You're playing it all at once so it has to be short.
livid comet
hm....
fallow niche
I mean I beat it in my first 5 runs
The vast majority of actual interesting dialog took place LONG after I started killing the old man
So I'm not certain how they're going to organize an ending in the game as it is
round stirrup
They should definitely add a new area beyond Hades, with Zagreus fighting his way past mortals or mystic creatures to reach Olympus
turbid needle
Then you are very uncommonly skilled.
woeful stirrup
Given that it takes some people 80 runs with god mode on, I'd say making it longer would make the game way unappealing to a lot of people.
fallow niche
I don't think that's unreasonable
last nacelle
The secret final boss, a frozen mushroom riding a chariot.
livid comet
here I am at like 30 runs
turbid needle
First five runs? Dude, that's insane.
livid comet
yeah
round stirrup
I beat it in about 10-15 runs
last nacelle
Demeter kind of kills Zagreus in one of the endings.
fallow niche
Really?
round stirrup
it's not hard in its current state
last nacelle
Zagreus dies of a cold.
turbid needle
These are very fast clears.
round stirrup
zagreus gets the flu and heckin dies
livid comet
I mean, you say that but you aren't me and I think this game is plenty hard
fallow niche
I think 10-15 should be well average at least
There is no way people won't be able to do it past that
round stirrup
moral of the story vaccinate your godchildren
im pretty good at rougelikes already so i doubt that 10-15 should be the average
fallow niche
That is true, I play a ton of roguelikes
fallow niche
That feels like a lot
livid comet
til I suck at this game
round stirrup
it gives them a good bit of time to see a good portion of the game
turbid needle
I've ground out my skill, but "You should be able to beat the final boss after five runs," is a take I've not seen here before.
round stirrup
like im on run 28 or 29 so far and ive only exhausted Theseus's and Hades's dialogues
oh and Skelly
fallow niche
livid comet
can we not post images to this channel?
fallow niche
.......
livid comet
huh.
fallow niche
I wish I could hear Theseus's old dialog
round stirrup
you have to post an imgur link
fallow niche
He never says much anymore
round stirrup
yeah
fallow niche
After all these runs
turbid needle
I ran out of his dialogue before I took a Yarn to the fight.
round stirrup
hes just like "OH SO YOU CAME BACK? WELL PREPARE FOR A BUTTSMACKING, BLACKGUARD"
turbid needle
Not unreasonable, just very good.
rancid shore
10-20 seems like where most people would fall on first win though
round stirrup
its not unreasonable, just above average
or below average?
i dont know which it would be
fallow niche
Uh, below in this case
turbid needle
Above average in skill, below average Escape Attempts before a clear.
fallow niche
If you mean runs
livid comet
round stirrup
huh
livid comet
yeah
round stirrup
what weapon are you using?
turbid needle
I've been playing since the Hydra was the final boss, so I don't have your guys' exact experience, but 20 or 30+ sounds right.
fallow niche
Shield is OP, Zag aspect sword is poopoo
Oh wait
He doesn't have aspects
Do shield
round stirrup
stick to shield
livid comet
I have aspect of zag for sword, shield, bow and spear
grand idol
I hate seeing darkness as a reward. Makes me cry
round stirrup
and dont take any Daedalus upgrades that change the Bull Rush to something else
fallow niche
Athena dash, ares on special
turbid needle
I actually love World Smasher.
round stirrup
Bull Rush is the best thing you can have imo
fallow niche
No
livid comet
aight, assume I want deadly flurry on shield?
livid comet
deadly flurry + explosive return
round stirrup
is that a bull rush replacement?
turbid needle
That's not a Hammer upgrade.
livid comet
increases bounces by 6 on the shield special
fallow niche
Oh that yeah its decent
turbid needle
Dread Flight?
livid comet
that ^
fallow niche
Explosive is better
round stirrup
deadly flurry is a sword upgrade
round stirrup
if i remember correctly
livid comet
ah right
turbid needle
Flurry Slash.
round stirrup
yeah that
fallow niche
Oh that thing
turbid needle
There's also Jab and Shot for the spear and bow.
livid comet
good old bastion specials
turbid needle
And Fire for the Rail.
round stirrup
automatic attacks basically
livid comet
yeah
round stirrup
gnight yall
round stirrup
and good luck Daggerfield
fallow niche
I'm going to bed soon too myself
livid comet
so flurry slash is super good on the sword, but I never get it with a compatible boon lol
gnite!
fallow niche
But yeah Ares/Athena on the shield should get you a win in
livid comet
so ares + ath on the shield? whose special should I grab?
fallow niche
I think that's what I did on my 5th run
Ares special
Athena dash
Those are the most important
livid comet
aight, and then pick as needed for the rest
fallow niche
Once you have those the rest of your slots don't matter a whole ton
Shoot for their duo if you can
Explosive return if you ever end up having the choice
Abuse bull rush to get in/out of crowds if you need to
livid comet
ok, so start off with ares keepsake, then athena
fallow niche
Yup!
If you can't get ares on special then attack is fine too
Special is just better if you end up getting dread flight
For the bounces
It also allows you to play more carefully with bosses
livid comet
gdi I got ares but only his attack LUL
fallow niche
Its fine!
Its still a ton of damage
Abuse bull rush through crowds
And repeat doing that whenever the Doom damage comes down
To always keep it up
You're mostly invulnerable when bull rushing
Athena on dash gives your dash more i-frames so prioritize that
Her holy shield (on damage) is fine too if you don't get the dash immediately
But you really want that dash
livid comet
yeah
fallow niche
Hermes extra dashes and dodge are what you want the most from him
Uhh I think that's it really
jade estuary
seems like hera bow is a lot better than chiron bow righ tnow
livid comet
first got ares, then athena, and now both of them
fallow niche
Choose that room
And choose his boon of the two first
His retribution is much harder for you to deal than Athena's I would think
livid comet
I've got 200hp, so it should be fine
fallow niche
Godspeed
livid comet
grabbed dire misfortune
fallow niche
If you ever get Impending Doom its great too
livid comet
YES I GOT ATHENA DASH
livid comet
yeah I had it before
super handy
now, pom or daedalus
daedalus is usually best right
fallow niche
Fast rush?
livid comet
yeah
fallow niche
That's what that one is right
yeah prob that
If its just those two
you want a quick throw for this buildf
fallow niche
Pom on doom
Well
Depends on how many boons you have
If you have more than 3 then artemis
Try and shoot for her duo boon with athena
fallow niche
Shoot for both Ares and Athena more if you can
But if its art vs anything else besides hammer than def Art
Get the athena artemis duo
Its very good
livid comet
well I'm picking keepsakes atm
so I can basically choose who I want for next boon
🤔
livid comet
the duo boon
fallow niche
The duo boon doesn't go on anything
livid comet
huh.
fallow niche
It just makes it so that when you deflect you instantly activate any doom effects
So if you spam attack and dash (dash attacks even) you will constantly activate doom
No full second duration
Its a ton of damage
Athena Artemis duo gives you 20% crit chance on everything whenever you deflect for a few seconds
Duos generally don't go on anything
They just are buffs or change skills you already have
fallow niche
Then that's good
You now just got 50% more damage
Doom is a status effect
Exposed is too
Now you just attack and dash on them and you will hear a new damage sound indicating you have privileged position active on that enemy
livid comet
rip
fallow niche
I'm heading to bed now, hopefully you can carry this run to the end! Ping me with how it goes so I can see it when I'm next on @livid comet
Godspeed 
granite lava
hey what is the assist (summon) key?
toxic pelican
Any tips for beating Hades? I just got to his second form for the first time and I had already used 2 last chances. I mainly use the Zeus variant of Aegis
turbid needle
I think on keyboard default it's 1.
granite lava
@turbid needle thanks!
grand idol
I am beyond mad
I hate this new poison. I hate how hard it is to get cured and how much damage it does. On top of that, I've definitely just lost a won run because I lost my last death defiance, despite being at 90 hp.
So much for my Guando run
God dang it.
Well, at least the prophecy was finished.
granite lava
what did they change with poison? @grand idol
grand idol
The satyr and rat poison ticks faster. Does more damage. I dread styx now
grand idol
Yeah, it'll drain your health in no time flat.
Ah well, I'm mostly just salty due to losing a death defiance toa glitch
But, that's what this phase is all about.
Figuring things out, fixing them. Just gotta let the salt dissolve.
livid oak
bronze sorrel
@livid oak for venom get to the glowing green drink and get some, it cures the venom. Also, if its the Satyrs giving you trouble, try dashing around them, or ducking in and out of cover. They have a big wind up for the dart so they'll miss most of the time if you keep moving even if you aren't actively timing the evasion. For Rodents of Unusual Size and vent traps, just don't get to close to the green smoke.
Anyone have recommendations for builds, tactics, etc for beating Lord Hades with the Rail? I've tried Zag, Eris and Hestia versions of the gun with all kinds of builds and I can usually make it to the final battle but then get crushed before I can even beat his first stage, even if I have 3 death defiance. I've beat him multiple times with every other weapon and the rail is just my bane 😦
turbid needle
Dionysus Attack, Weak applicator of your choice, Spread Fire.
Shoot for their Duo.
turbid needle
Oh, Eris with my build, too.
+60% damage to poison (one of the few ways in the game to buff it) at max level.
turbid needle
It's not for everyone, but it's unquestionably extremely powerful.
That's why you're not relying on the rail's base damage.
manic dune
it goes from what? 10 to 16 per hit?
blazing pawn
yeah eris is strong but I don't like using it
I like doing zeus / poseidon for zag rail
turbid needle
My favorite is Zeus.
blazing pawn
or demeter / something
manic dune
you can get on-hit effects on Hestia as well
blazing pawn
demeter is very good with spread shot
manic dune
but it has that high damage first shot
blazing pawn
like demeter/poseidon wrecks
turbid needle
Get my lightning leveled up a little bit, get Splitting Bolt?
Eris also increases the damage of Doom and Casts, so you can run Hunting Blades and Merciful End on it.
final fox
eris rail is about getting as many non-percentage boons as possible
zeus attack, artemis support fire, doom on special, that sort of thing
because the +60% damage boost is global and applies to everything
and ofc rail attack is very fast
woeful stirrup
Do damage bonuses apply before or after the +1 from Concentrated fire? 'cause I can see it working pretty well with Eris.
manic dune
concentrated fire is kinda whack
blazing pawn
I think conc fire is base damage
turbid needle
Well, each subsequent shot would have more damage from the Eris buff.
I've also used it with Spread Fire and Artemis attack to good effect.
manic dune
it has the same problem
giving +1 damage to something that already does low damage doesn't make it better
turbid needle
You kinda ignored the point myself and angryaboutelves made.
We're not using Poseidon or Athena or Aphro attack.
manic dune
i was talking about concentrated fire
turbid needle
It's not the problem that Eris has, though.
manic dune
yes the problem with eris is it's boon dependant
and also how tf do you hit yourself with your own special
blazing pawn
stand in it
turbid needle
I play with MKB.
final fox
you stand in the AoE
manic dune
on gamepad aiming the special is horrible
turbid needle
Ideally you dash towards an enemy when after you special.
final fox
drop the special then dash into it
turbid needle
Hestia is nice without a boon, but it doesn't scale well without boons.
There's many dashes that have offensive merit.
Divine Dash is the best Merciful End trigger in the game.
manic dune
hestia scales incredibly with boons
turbid needle
So does Eris.
manic dune
you said hestia didn't which is false
it's good without boons and good with boons, it's consistent
consistent is good
turbid needle
It's not consistent after Asphodel.
It does not deal enough damage to contain Exalted and Nemean Chariots.
manic dune
i haven't had a problem with chariots
turbid needle
And while Hestia might be better without boons, Eris is absolutely better with its ideal selection.
manic dune
you would need to elaborate
turbid needle
The big chariots, not Flamewheels.
manic dune
pretty sure hestia is better with it's ideal selection
it's just getting pointless to argue at this point
i'd like eris more if you could aim your special in a more sensible way
it doesn't feel right
turbid needle
Maybe it just plays better with mouse and keyboard.
manic dune
i mean you're still losing time aiming the damn thing
whatever controller
would be nice if it was automatic
blazing pawn
well it does auto target enemies
manic dune
it's similar to Draven from Lol
mild crag
Eris is smooth as heck if you're on kb&m
manic dune
as a concept
mild crag
It's a gamepad issue
turbid needle
Don't dodge the filter, Kossetsu.
manic dune
i see
mild crag
My bad
manic dune
i mean i see ways it could work with gamepad as well
blazing pawn
I haven't really had that many issues with it on gamepad
night pasture
eris is the one that took the place of the hammer upgrade where you 'splode yourself and do more damage?
manic dune
for example an option in the game menu that says "Start Rail special aiming reticule at character position when using Eris"
mild crag
And don't need to get near enemies
night pasture
too finicky, hestia is more guaranteed easy damage
night pasture
I'm not going to tell anyone what they should choose
snow tangle
LMFAO if you use the call of a god/goddess you didn't choose in a 2 boon room, Zag goes "This is awkward"
manic dune
If you're struggling with rail
I wouldn't recommend the rail aspect that adds additional weird gimmicks to it
I suppose Hestia has a gimmick too that you have to shoot once then reload
finite grail
zag aspect is good enough as an extension of the base rail
night pasture
also when it comes to the rail, if you're moving when you reload, you can keep moving
night pasture
if you're standign still when you reload, you won't be able to move until the reload is finished
unless you cancel it
native ether
I gotta agree with Schpoonman on this one. Both rail aspects are great, however Eris has more boon combinations that do high damage, thus making Eris in my opinion the more useful aspect generally. There are some great Hestia builds, but there are more great Eris builds. (Because basically you can slap literally anything on an Eris build and it works)
manic dune
you just cancel the animation not the reload
night pasture
apologies, @manic dune is correct
manic dune
pretty sure you can slap anything on Hestia and it works
whereas you specifically need on-hit effects on Eris to work
native ether
Try Poison or Zeus on Hestia and cry :p
turbid needle
Cast and Special builds are both much stronger on Eris than Hestia.
night pasture
you can make hestia into a coronacht easy, I love that aspect on the rail
mild crag
Cast, revenge, special, on hit, call, everything
native ether
Poison? Works on Eris. Any strong Wrath effect? Eris. Demeter Chill and Combo AoE? Eris. Any high base damage effect? Works on Eris, Eris increases all damage. Crits? Eris. Special and Cast builds? Eris for sure.
mild crag
But hestia you just have attack
woeful stirrup
Thing is, with Hestia, you literally just need a good attack boon to melt everything. With the right boon, it's a 2 to 4 shots kill on every Elysium enemy.
native ether
Cast Special Wrath or effect based builds do not work nearly as well on Hestia because the gimmick for Hestia is entirely on high damage attack shots, whereas Eris is a simple global damage buff, like Thanatos' keepsake, but if it was actually good :p
turbid needle
Hestia does nothing to boost the two strongest builds in the game, Hunting Blades and Merciful End.
turbid needle
I want to get Ice Wine with the Thunderdome.
manic dune
the problem with strongest build is they're rng dependant
turbid needle
So is Hestia.
mild crag
And there are a lot more good builds for eris
manic dune
i prefer weapons that can work if you slap whatever random stuff on them
mild crag
Like eris?
blazing pawn
I feel like that describes eris a lot more than hestia
native ether
Which... isnt Hestia lmao
turbid needle
If you get nothing but Poison or Lightning or super low value Demeter for your Attack, Hestia is worthless.
mild crag
Eris is the picture of versatility
turbid needle
Hestia needs specifically good Attack boons for it to be effective.
Eris boosts all damage Zagreus deals. All of it.
native ether
Hestia requires a high base damage attack and ideally, Hunter's Dash and a Chaos effect or two to make absolutely busted. Is it busted? Sure it is. Is it harder to build consistently? Very much so yes.
native ether
There's also the fact that Hestia doesn't work with like half the Hammers the rail has (and that's mainly the fault of it originally actually working with Spread Fire and literally it was more op than the Shield)
turbid needle
God, I miss Hestia Spread Fire.
native ether
Spread Shot Hestia back when it was a thing was some fine uh... well... words I can't say in this discord
manic dune
it works fine with spread fire
native ether
Imagine deleting Theseus in like 2 shots
turbid needle
I four-shot Alecto.
manic dune
you just get one long powerful shot
turbid needle
It used to empower the shotgun.
manic dune
then you get spread fire on the next shots
turbid needle
Most busted thing I've ever used in this game.
native ether
It has no interaction with Spread Fire, or basically half the hammers. Hestia shots basically can't be affected by your hammer effects.
Because when they were it was the most broken thing in the game.
manic dune
Hestia works fine with all the good hammer boons
final fox
it works great with piercing fire and explosive fire
manic dune
the bad hammer boons are bad either way
turbid needle
I didn't know Spread Fire and Flurry Fire were bad, this is news.
manic dune
the best hammer boons for rail are for the special anyway
i can see eris having more problems with special hammer boons
native ether
Spread Fire would like to chime in and say no lol
finite grail
god I love flurry fire
native ether
wai wha
mild crag
Flurry fire is not good for hestia but its so good for eris on hit
turbid needle
Triple Bombard gives you additional room to proc Eris.
native ether
Flurry Fire and Eris bad?
wha
Spread Fire and Eris bad?
May I introduce you to Spread Shot Hangover
manic dune
so you're telling me you use triple bombard
and then you chase your special?
xd
ok
turbid needle
Probably the Rail's best all-purpose hammer.
blazing pawn
yeah, I mean you have eris' buff for 8 seconds
turbid needle
Or I drop two on enemies and one on me, keeping my distance.
native ether
I never take Triple Bombard. I place my specials in smart positions on enemies, and use Spread Fire and Explosive Fire when able.
mild crag
You can drop your special on enemies and still walk into it you know as well
blazing pawn
like I don't even care for eris' gameplay really but it isn't that hard to use
turbid needle
It's not like it hurts me, and if I have Deflect it can even protect me standing in the Special.
manic dune
with gamepad it's impossible to aim triple bombard
native ether
The only hammer that doesnt work with Eris at all is the new one, Hazard Bomb
manic dune
you just spray and pray
turbid needle
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeck Hazard Bomb.
native ether
That would explain it. We're all Mouse and Keyboard players lol
turbid needle
I bet it's lovely with Hestia
mild crag
Yeah I mentioned earlier gamepad is not gonna work with Eris
manic dune
I'm a KBM player too, i just prefer gamepad for this game
native ether
"gamepad bad"
pc purists everywhere
finite grail
I miss staggering gun but alas
manic dune
it's just too casual i can play while lying down with gamepad
mild crag
Yeah that's a good call
woeful stirrup
Does Hazard Bomb trigger Eris boost if you deflect it?
native ether
You can't deflect it afaik
But you can dash thru it at the right time to get the buff and avoid the damage
but just why would you do that to yourself
woeful stirrup
For glory.
native ether
Hazard Bomb is also more of a debuff cause when you take it you can't get Cluster Bomb or Triple Bomb
manic dune
i like cluster bomb too
turbid needle
It's so hard.
manic dune
how do you use cluster bomb with eris
turbid needle
I've tried dodging out of Hazard Bomb, but it's just not worth it.
manic dune
oh let me guess you dash into the enemies to collect it
turbid needle
You run into any of the five bombs you drop.
native ether
Walking into any of the bombs gives you a boost
You can also drop the bomb directly on top of you, all 5 practically land in the same spot
manic dune
sounds like a bad plan if you're kiting
turbid needle
Not with gamepad you can't, Pear.
native ether
i dont play gamepad :p
blazing pawn
just pull the stick back before you release
manic dune
so eris is worthless with gamepad
blazing pawn
it's not that hard
manic dune
and you need to dash into enemies
mild crag
Don't like cluster bomb much but just play it the same way as normal
manic dune
i still don't like it
native ether
yeah I dislike Cluster Bomb, makes me less accurate
also something to note
when you get the buff, that bomb does the bonus damage
they apply simultaneously
finite grail
Oh dang never realized that
turbid needle
You don't have to like it, but calling arguably the strongest Aspect in the game bad is just inaccurate.
I think Merciful End is super boring, doesn't mean it's not absolutely top tier.
native ether
but yeah, aggressively bomb an enemy and walk up to it and play in the bomb range to get your buff, then just keep a mental counter in your head to drop it every 5 seconds or so
final fox
I use eris with gamepad all the time
it's not particularly hard to move into a special once every 8 seconds
native ether
once you get used to it, its just default gameplay rhythm
grand idol
Hestia is top tier.
grand idol
Top. Tier. I love that mega shot
native ether
and that's perfectly fine, you can play how you want. But Eris is definitely the tool that can output more damage in general cases.
grand idol
I just wish that the reloading mechanic felt half as nice
turbid needle
Poseidon might not belong there.
native ether
Zag sword is op btw
turbid needle
i honestly cant get around to liking the rail gameplay overall
native ether
people just havent realized it
turbid needle
The increased Dash distance?
native ether
that and just moving faster
turbid needle
I'm waiting until I can get a Double Nova spawn to try it.
fierce iron
Movespeed and dash distance is nice
turbid needle
nemesis sword is prettygood too tbh
manic dune
the only thing zag sword has going on is the movement speed
native ether
It has increased Dash distance
finite grail
Hera would be way better if you come could collect missed shots easier
manic dune
you can skip all Hermes buffs with zag sword and still be able to evade Hades attacks
turbid needle
Nemesis is fun as hell and very strong DPS-wise, but it's so unsafe.
native ether
My fastest clear is with the sword. People were screeching "swor ba" and then I dropped a 17 minute clear on them with the sword :p
blazing pawn
all the swords seem strong
native ether
on Zag aspect
turbid needle
Oh, and I got the Crush Shot/Snow Burst combo, it's great.
manic dune
is that on 0 heat
turbid needle
Hey Pear, have you beat my 14:57 clear with Zeus Eris yet?
native ether
nope it was on 10
manic dune
normal?
native ether
Max Timer, Max Overtime
I have not yet but I'm close. Got down to 19 mintues on the rail with Spread Shot Poison Eris
native ether
Normal mode because I spent 100 hours unlocking things on my normal mode save and I have no interest in regrinding out stuff to play on a hell mode save where the only difference is being forced under 2500 darkness
manic dune
it's not the only difference
turbid needle
Nobody cares about that sort of thing, least of all the developers.
native ether
Sure there's other heat conditions locked in at all times but its a 5 baseline heat. I just like to play with conditions I actually enjoy playing with.
manic dune
any heat you add you have to add on top of these baseline conditions which make it rather different imo
native ether
yes and no. You're still clearing the game at 6/7/8/9/however many heat, you just don't get to choose every condition. Once you get high enough, you're turning on so many conditions anyways, it honestly doesn't matter.
manic dune
it matters
because you ALWAYS have the baseline conditions turned on
you can't turn them off
native ether
Also Forced Overtime at 50% is plenty challenging. Demeter can't even slow that down for you.
manic dune
yeah overtime is nasty
turbid needle
Forced Overtime at 50% is harder than anything Hell Mode locks in.
native ether
So what it makes it... harder to grind? I'm not seeing the real difference here.
manic dune
but try hell mode + 50% overtime
mild crag
It matters for like <20 heat since nobody in their right might would turn on budget cuts unless they had to
But otherwise ends up being the same
native ether
^ This because Budget Cuts isn't fun to use lol
why would I want to willingly turn off the mirror I put literally 100K darkness into
finite grail
I don’t know how people do these high heat runs I’m only at 7 on one weap with 117 clears 😰
turbid needle
not for everyonr tho
blazing pawn
it seems kind of redundant currently to the pact of punishment
turbid needle
but to each their own
blazing pawn
it probably needs a redesign
turbid needle
Again, this conversation is just academic since Hell Mode is explicitly for ultra-try-hard players who want an unreasonably difficult challenge.
manic dune
the pact of punishment feels like a placeholder just like heat
native ether
You and I definitely do not have the same definition of fun lol. Even my 32 Heat runs are set up to deliberately avoid Budget Cuts
manic dune
hope they polish it eventually
mild crag
Heat is a great system
native ether
Heat system is great. Some conditions aren't fun. That's my opinion on the Pact
mild crag
It just needs some more balance
mild crag
Nobody is gonna say that 2500 darkness limit is the same as 20% damage increase
finite grail
sacrificing boons one is rough too
turbid needle
yeah...
native ether
I would rather play with Tight Deadline than Budget Cuts and that says something considering that the timer is basically what prevents you from winning runs :p
blazing pawn
or no choice max
turbid needle
the no choice one makes me sad cause i get to see the one i cant pick
turbid needle
If the timer weren't a thing, and it were 27 Heat, I'd have like a dozen clears already.
And I would also still play with it before Budget Cuts.
native ether
same lol. The new pact system is less punishing than the old system where Theseus did 120 damage a hit XD
woeful stirrup
No choice is a lot of fun, on its own. Wouldn't pick it in an actual high heat run though.
native ether
minus the timer
manic dune
so imagine always having budget cuts on
turbid needle
Sounds like you're playing half a game.
manic dune
why
turbid needle
old pact system was sooo heavy
finite grail
Old pact was something lol
manic dune
is easier = fun?
native ether
Rerolls and the full mirror system change the dynamics of the game considerably.
finite grail
heat values were everywhere
turbid needle
Actually, without the full mirror you're not experiencing everything the game has to offer.
manic dune
so i guess that's why you like eris
turbid needle
bruh just accept people dont find fun the same things as you
finite grail
unlocking heat... so strange now
mild crag
Content is different cause you can't take fated authorities lol
turbid needle
easier can mean more fun
manic dune
eris probably scales off the mirror multipliers rather well
turbid needle
It does not.
yeah the unlocking heat thing caught me by surprise
Well, rarity actually.
native ether
Rarity sure, everything else nah
turbid needle
i hadnt played since like july or sumn? and got back this month
That being said, I've never said I disliked Hestia, just that Eris was better.
and everything was so new
mild crag
You can get everything besides rarity, fated authority and the last DD with budget cuts anyway
native ether
Its just there are more strategies available generally and there's more game flexibility
mild crag
So really it doesn't do much aside from influence your luck
native ether
Rerolls are one of the best things in Hades and they're honestly really important (in my opinion) the higher you move up the heat scale
native ether
you can't afford to be blindly messing around in Tartarus hoping you get the build you need to break through Elysium in 7 minutes. Gotta use rerolls to seize the means of Elysium destruction
finite grail
I find the rarity increases very important too
manic dune
rerolls are kinda buggy
turbid needle
Barely.
manic dune
i wish you saw what the pool for a specific room was
native ether
We got a diagram for that :p
manic dune
instead of rerolling and getting the same thing
turbid needle
The laurels tell you.
native ether
turbid needle
yeah rarity increases are pretty important
mild crag
You can't reroll into the same thing tho
bronze sorrel
Thx for the tips on rail. Gonna try them out on another run
turbid needle
i got that bugged today actually
manic dune
my problem is with the gold laurel rooms
native ether
Blue Laurel is Currency, Gold is Run Improvement. You at most can only roll up to 3 different options for a room, so there's no point in rerolling a room 3 times unless you want one of those other options.
manic dune
you reroll those and you literally get the same thing over and over
native ether
Reroll miniboss rooms
manic dune
i usually just reroll darkness
native ether
Guaranteed to be boons
blazing pawn
gimme that bow anyway
native ether
Reroll a miniboss room to get a strong boon from a god you want
blazing pawn
ain't tryna reload
native ether
You shouldn't be seeing the same thing after a reroll (at least immediately), if you do, F10 that
But each room can only have a max of 3 options
so your fourth reroll will always be one of the earlier options
native ether
eh, I just don't waste my rerolls on things that aren't minibosses
Its usually not worth doing.
native ether
yeah so you can reroll Poseidon -> Ares -> Artemis
native ether
If you're getting the exact same boon in a row (reroll an Ares into an Ares immediately) That is a bug, and should be F10'd
turbid needle
Options may loop, but you should (almost) never reroll a coin into a coin or Ares into Ares.
manic dune
I see
native ether
It should be impossible. If it happens, F10 it so the devs can see your save data and figure out what's calling it
native ether
basically yes
So if the miniboss door has Athena Poseidon and Dionysus in the pool, and its on Athena, and you reroll it, it will be Poseidon or Dionysus.
If you reroll it again, it should (not guaranteed but its super rare to go back to the first option) show Dionysus.
turbid needle
With my current set-up at max damage my Crush Shot crits for 2555.
native ether
If you reroll it again, it'll be one of the other options, and then it will cycle randomly
Pressure Points?
manic dune
Thanks i guess i'll give it a shot
turbid needle
Because Theseus is a [unintelligible rune], I'm going into the Hades fight with no DDs if this Athena in the shop doesn't give me one.
Pressure Points and Deadly Reversal.
native ether
The other things that are imo worth rerolling are Styx wings
turbid needle
And Heart Rend.
native ether
if you have the rerolls left that is at the end of a run
cause you can reroll a boss wing into something like a Double Heart
turbid needle
Styx wings can be any gold laurel. Reroll those at your peril.
Oh, yeah, boss wings are clutch.
manic dune
the styx rerolls are the worst
native ether
Reroll your boss wings if they don't help your current build. Since you can't spend your rerolls on anything else that late, might as well do it
like if you get a double pom wing and you have no need for poms, reroll it
double gold and you dont wanna buy anything? reroll it
Poseidon boon? Reroll it 
native ether
Yeah yeah blah blah surfer uncle now has a boon that's just more boss damage
turbid needle
The boon doesn't work.
turbid needle
I got it tonight, it's broken.
native ether
so he is still the worst XD
blazing pawn
even if it did it starts at a whopping 5%
thorny edge
poseidon being the worst feels in character
turbid needle
If that were multiplicative, it might be worth it.
native ether
Would be better if Poseidon had higher base damage
turbid needle
Oh my god, it does!
native ether
too bad he's I think 2nd, 3rd?
turbid needle
2nd now.
blazing pawn
I like poseidon haha
turbid needle
Doesn't matter, Artemis still outdamages him.
native ether
Aphrodite is still the queen of base damage and im not quite sure why given she also has the best debuff in the game :p
blazing pawn
but I am highly entertained by the wallbang stuff
livid comet
@fallow niche Did another run, beat hades for the first time! The build worked!
native ether
Even after being nerfed its still the best
Though Chill is honestly the number 2 slot
turbid needle
Chill is awesome.
native ether
used to be Poison/Hangover for me but honestly I think Chill is so much better than Poison
blazing pawn
demeter in general is pretty nuts
turbid needle
Ugh, I'm sorry, but it's so cool.
blazing pawn
though I don't like her cast
native ether
Though Poison+Weak is still great
turbid needle
You get Crystal Clarity yet, Wallach?
native ether
Everyone keeps saying they dont like the cast but the cast combined with any of its duos is amazing
blazing pawn
nah I haven't tried that one
turbid needle
Crystal Beam only has one Duo, right?
native ether
Its got the Poseidon one too right?
turbid needle
She has Duos with Dio's and Poseidon's Casts.
blazing pawn
I think that's for poseidon's cast
turbid needle
Nah, it modifies Tidal Shot.
blazing pawn
it's like frozen orb
turbid needle
Is that a D3 reference?
livid comet
aight, beat hades for the first time
native ether
I was super confused why the beam cast was inflicting waves of knockback XD
turbid needle
Ah, never played it.
native ether
now this makes sense
blazing pawn
but seriously demeter is loaded
finite grail
beam knock back would be busted but can you imagine
native ether
Rare Crop
livid comet
which aspect should I unlock guys? suggestions? (beat the run with shield)
turbid needle
I wish Crystal Clarity also pierced.
blazing pawn
my favorite aspect is chiron
turbid needle
I am really liking Zeus Aspect right now.
native ether
Also if Nourishment works to counteract Lasting Consequences oh dear gods its amazing
Chaos and Zeus are both good aspects
pick whichever sounds more fun
finite grail
I find the Zeus aspect leaves out a lot of cool Shield toss boons
thorny edge
you can test out aspects in skelly's room by quitting without leaving
tame stratus
Gotta say, I wasn't so sure about the new aspect of Guan Yu at first, but I finished a run with it on my first try and its actually pretty fun.
radiant trail
any where we can see how fast we killed a boss?
i think I just killed theseus and asterius in about 20 seconds
native ether
only way atm is to remember what time the timer was at when you entered and do a bit of quick math
:/
tribal latch
I just beat Hades by holding leftclick for 90% of the run and using World Smasher.
Don't know if you should be able to do that.
turbid needle
Yeah, I'm not sure about that.
drifting hornet
Hey, sorry to bother you guys! I finally reached Hades for the first time today, even beat his first phase. I was hoping someone could help me understand some of his mechanics before I have another go at it? A lot of stuff was happening all at once and I didn't really understand what all his attacks did
Specifically the green skulls and the pots
turbid needle
So if you pay real close attention, whenever you get hit with the skulls you'll see "Boiling Blood" appear on the screen.
tribal latch
you have to dash through it
lament coral
the skulls create a wave upon exploding that cover half a screen, you can either dash over the wave or destroy the skulls before they blow up
tribal latch
Vases leave a Green puddle when they're destroyed that damage you
dash away from them
lament coral
the vases deal trap damage and stun you for a brief moment if you stand on top of em/break em
drifting hornet
So, destroy the skulls, stay away from the vases?
lament coral
correctomundo
though you don't really have to destroy the skulls if you trust your ability to dash over the waves
drifting hornet
I was destroying the skulls just cuz I saw another streamer do that but I didn't actually know what they did if you didn't destroy them lol
I actually thought the green wave was being caused by the vases
Thanks for explaining!
sharp rock
I end up breaking vases with long range but maybe that ain't the best way to deal with them
lament coral
I've no idea how to control vases with the sword
that's the only weapon without a built in ranged option
sharp rock
Yea finishing a run with sword is next on my list
drifting hornet
It was a fun run I'm saddened by the unlikelihood thst RNG will ever give me that specific combo of boons and daedalus upgrades again
lament coral
there is a reliable boon solution though
Athena's sure footing, reduces trap damage by X%
turbid needle
Sure Footing is secret S-tier, spread the word.
sharp rock
I almost never take that 
lament coral
I dunno if it works on waves, too
turbid needle
I think waves are enemy damage.
lament coral
ah, pity
turbid needle
Man, could you imagine? Epic Sure Footing just trivializing the MidMan Megagorgon fight?
sharp rock
I am happy that I've gotten the hang of dodging waves. Trying to break every skull was a nightmare
finite grail
Mid Megagorgon fight is tougher than hades sometimes lol
Maybe I’m just playing it wrong but the wave generated feels way bigger
livid comet
Aight, so tips? Should I focus on unlocking all the aspects first? Or should I boost up a particular aspect instead?
turbid needle
I suggest you follow Dark Thirst, upgrading whatever Aspect you like the most out of each weapon's selection.
lament coral
the stone's wave covers the whole island
so you have to dodge the wave and gorgon's projectiles
mild crag
Yeah problem just is the size of the hit boxes or something
frail vector
@lusty gust Artemis + Aphro?
lament coral
could anyone tell me what's the current lvl 1 effect of Guan Yu?
obtuse ravine
does festive fog bonuses get over written by Ice Wine?
lament coral
no, enemies are still staggered in the AOE
lusty gust
80% less hp on lvl 1 Guan Yu aspect
lament coral
thanks
lusty gust
max lvl is 50% I believe
lament coral
yeah, I'm maxed out, was wondering what lvl 1 was after the buff
nimble parrot
Is there any way to check your progress with each weapon before starting a run?
stoic condor
Is there something I have to do to see Demeter's boons? Haven't seen any of them despite quite a few runs after the patch.
lusty gust
You have to equip the weapon and then reveal it to see the lvls if this is what you're asking
nimble parrot
No I mean to see if there are any I still need to beat meg with for the first time
lusty gust
Oh, you mean when heat is on?
nimble parrot
Im early in the game, no heat yet
mild crag
@lament coral it's 70% at level 1 now
lament coral
it's still severely limiting
mild crag
Yep
lament coral
just lock it at 50%
lament coral
and scale HP gain only
so you'll at least start with 50 HP with the mirror HP upgrade maxed out
btw, how does Lasting Consequences work with Guan Yu?
mild crag
The lifesteal works even with 100% consequences
lament coral
POG
mild crag
Unless it was changed in the most recent patch
lament coral
ok, I'll definitely be using max consequences during the 32 heat GY run then
mild crag
It's a good idea ye
lament coral
strange, though, since it is HP gain
mild crag
That's what I thought when it worked but I was also not that surprised
Wouldn't really be fair if it didn't work
whole burrow
sturdy cloak
whoa they fixed it
manic dune
this was an interesting turn of events
almost killed myself but hades melted like butter lol
manic dune
i still haven't unlocked the entire mirror
lament coral
ah, bummer
manic dune
haven't really meddled with it much
lament coral
oh, are you on normal then?
lament coral
I see
manic dune
i'm already at 2500 can't go further and this works
lament coral
why is there an * next to Hazard Bomb?
manic dune
i'll probably have to retune it at some point
If you hover over it it has a warning tooltip explaining it does damage to you
lament coral
full damage?
manic dune
no
lament coral
phew
lament coral
seems like a bad hammer for Eris
manic dune
i think it's probably a fixed amount of damage, it's not super high
lament coral
welcome, BOULD UP 
tall whale
should i just go and spend my titan blood straight away, or should i wait a bit and unlock the 4th aspect first?
also in general, how hard is it to get more titan blood?
lament coral
up to you, though the 4th aspect is best left untouched until you max it out
the downside is crushing
tall whale
b/c rn it seems to me like we're locked at 5 titan blood for a decently long while :/
lament coral
you're guaranteed 2 bloods per run, plus a random chance for a blood/diamond from Charon in Styx
tall whale
what, how
tall whale
please note i haven't gotten past elysium yet
tall whale
so rn my only source of blood is getting the kill on meg with a new weapon
dense locust
Rare crop (Your boons become common and then level up) only applies to current boons right?
lament coral
yes
dense locust
thanks
manic dune
damn i feel like athena almost never shows up after the patch
tall whale
so far i've been starting my runs w/ owl pendant since i really like the attacks can deflect boon
livid comet
yeah
manic dune
i just want to finish off the prophecies
livid comet
deflect dash is also invaluable
lament coral
I get at least 1 Athena every run, even without her keepsake
livid comet
yeah I got a ton of athenas in my last two runs
tall whale
some enemies feel so bad without any sources of deflect
manic dune
i'm missing Divine Protection and Lightning Phalanx
livid comet
yeah wave makers being the main one
lament coral
oof, divine protection is gonna take you a while
tall whale
also, are keys used for anything other than mirror and weapons?
lament coral
took me over 20 hours to get it, was the last boon I was missing from her
manic dune
you can use 15 keys to buy 1 blood