also a weapon manafacturer is not the same as a legendary warrior but ok
#h1-builds-and-combat
burnt rune
stray frigate
lusty gust
shhhh, it's the ak-47 aspect
burnt rune
like, the rail story already implies the weapons are out of time or something
lusty gust
I mean, we're talking about divine weapons
burnt rune
wait, are the fishes tied to your timing?
lusty gust
Is it just me or the new spear seems slower?
burnt rune
it is slower
radiant basin
https://puu.sh/F2olo/6f47b653c4.png really wish I was running zag spear right now
lusty gust
RIP
burnt rune
RNG did not gave me Serrated Edge yet .-.
lusty gust
Your health drops 80% but you can lifesteal off your spin
lofty totem
Silly build idea. Would love somebody to try this. + total casts from chaos or any other source really, and flurry cast, demeter aoe damage when using cast, and standard cast. Idea here is to just like, situationally, be able to hug a wall and cast at it and rapidly utilize the AoE Chill boon from demeter to damage enemies really fast
unkempt ridge
@floral quail saw your post in the feedback, wanted to say that they did change how the poison works, when you get poisoned watch the effects next time. The pools become like beacons of light until you cure, and then they return to normal. Makes it very easy to see when you've been poisoned, and when you've cured it
burnt rune
The pillar of lights with the green tint can still be hard to parse in the middle of the action imo
lusty gust
But wouldn't recommend it
lofty totem
idk I have a playstyle where I can effortlessly win with spear, shield, and bow, but I find GUN and sword impossible to win with. The new spear has been a breeze for me to use
I especially hate using the sword
was able to clear with it only once
like ever
and I must have 30+ clears now
unkempt ridge
try the poseidon aspect on sword, and go for a cast build
cast cast cast special cast cast etc
pretty easy to clear
unkempt ridge
different strokes for different folks I suppose
lusty gust
Spear is easy to win with but never tried the sword though
lofty totem
"never tried the sword though"
unkempt ridge
I never have any issues with poseidon sword, but I have issues with spear
lofty totem
you got temporal powers to skip the very first run?
And presumably the next to get more keys
pseudo topaz
did someone ask how to get the arty + dem duo?
lofty totem
I did
pseudo topaz
lofty totem
thanks for saying exactly that
solid cairn
I hate elysium so much
lofty totem
now I know
solid cairn
sometimes I feel like quitting playing entirely because elysium is such a pain in the ass
pseudo topaz
support fire + dem cast
lofty totem
you mean?
lusty gust
Lost the run but got my blood vials back \o;
pseudo topaz
sorry
pseudo topaz
I believe so
unkempt ridge
you dont need support fire
civic barn
hm, is anyone hearing a splashy sound effect whenever they're just walking around? Is that supposed to be for the fish you caught, or if there's fish available to catch?
pseudo topaz
I also have a couple of arty boons, but they have to do with crits
unkempt ridge
I got the duo without it, you just need the dem cast and one of arti's main boons
pseudo topaz
ah
civic barn
i'm really confused by it since i don't see any fishing spots but there's this loud splashy sound
pseudo topaz
sweet
unkempt ridge
it works the same as the arti/ares boon, unlock wise
pseudo topaz
yea, I was trying to find out where to fish but I couldn't find any spots
wise yoke
@civic barn I think that's a bug, I was having that too
unkempt ridge
just need the cast + one of arti's boons
civic barn
thanks; hopefully they fix it because er
this is really annoying when i'm just thinking about what to do next in the run
versed ibex
is this Daedalus upgrade on the bow new? charging your special to make it hit for more damage?
civic barn
yea
versed ibex
okay. I thought so. I hate it 😂
pseudo topaz
Dem/arty duo is extremely fast
unkempt ridge
ugh, elysium rooms with chariots and shields are the bane of my existance
charging special + arti boon actually works decently well
you get crits for 200+
outside of that, yeah it sucks
versed ibex
I forgot I was mid-run when I started up the game again. I had no clue what that upgrade did but it sure did not play well with Chiron
unkempt ridge
it's hard to get used to charging it instead of just tapping it
and it takes so long to charge, that it kills a lot of your range on special
I think if it started at half range and charged to full from there that it would be much better
versed ibex
Yeah, and like... I didn't see a significant damage boost? Theseus and Arterius demolished me
unkempt ridge
it's pretty significant at full charge
versed ibex
😂 standing still during that fight
unkempt ridge
normally arti boon crits for 70~, mine at full charge are critting for 200+
true enough
regal nimbus
i think demeter special + zeus shield is best combo for the shield right now
it slows down the enemies so they stay in the shield damage
and the multiple hits from shield apply multple chill
versed ibex
I think what really gets me is that it renders Chiron useless unless you fully charge the special. I would accept "don't get extra damage unless fully charged" but the arrows don't even reach the marked target
unkempt ridge
it hurts on the other bows as well honestly. just takes too long to charge to be worth the extra damage
half the time you get hit and lose the charge anyways
I did find a hermes boon for faster special, which helps a lot
versed ibex
yeah but Hermes is unreliable
unkempt ridge
yeah but if you had it beforehand, I could see taking it
autumn bough
Boy, I sure do hate how the new Chain Shot upgrade stops your aiming indicator
It makes it so much harder to time the charged shots
regal nimbus
new hammer upgrade (World smasher) combined with Minotaur rush is insane
burnt rune
I mainly play bow and most hammer upgrades feel underwhelming, not surprised the new special upgrade isn't great. Would prefer to have special pierce enemies and not affect damage than having to charge my only fast attack
regal nimbus
it doesnt even give u a charge up, maybe like 0,3 sec longer than normal
and i just hit enemies for 450 standard while im 100% special build
barely any + attack mods
open trout
I found a glowy spot in the lava - Is that where I can catch fish? Nothing pops up when I walk up near it so I'm not sure how to cast my fishing line
autumn bough
Also, why does the gun's new hazard blast have to hurt you? It's enough of a drawback to only cast on your position.
@open trout, have you cleared the chamber? I had one of those in a fountain chamber, and it was unresponsive until I drank.
open trout
Thank you, that was the problem, I needed to clear the chamber
unkempt ridge
is anyone else seeing this: any time I die and use a defiance, I get hit immediately after by the same thing that killed me
unkempt pagoda
also guan yu is hella fun
regal nimbus
damn
1500 crit iwth the thing i just said
im gna doa build focused on attack with that
unkempt ridge
so say I die to a minotaur charge, I instantly take the charge damage again after the defiant finishes its animation
its been happening in 3+ runs now
elfin wagon
I just got fully loaded and Demeter's cast with the tracking duo boon and chill on cast. This is as powerful as the Ares x Artemis Cast build
slender basin
I think i know but double checking: Lambent Plume bonus disappears if you trade it off right?
wooden spade
slender basin
bah... makes sense, but BAH!
also how the heck do you find Thanatos, 50+ runs in and I haven't seen him
kind fiber
I think he appears in elite encounter rooms more often? I dunno
I heard he also appears more if you've taken some damage
slender basin
the latter isn't usually a problem -_-
hexed shale
have you talked to Hypnos as much as you can? He should mention Thanatos a few times
red lantern
do you guys feel the game is harder after the update?
normal sleet
i'm pretty sure the keepsake, even with its cooldown, is still borked in some respects
I bug reported it after taking initial damage in rooms and it not triggering (or at the very least not showing the shield onscreen)
full flame
yes, it definitely feels harder
might just be because of not being used to changes to mechanics, but it just feels bad
spear is worse than ever
hollow sorrel
It be like that, when you take away 30% of the nemesis sword damage
full flame
damage in styx is out of control
so sad they changed the only good spear aspect
rng also feels worse than ever
bold salmon
So i dont see it in the patch notes. I have a lvl 1 chaos aspect shield and its not throwing a extra shield after bull rush now?
full flame
mine is maxed, so can't confirm that
hollow sorrel
I wish I could get a refund on titan blood I spent on the chaos shield
civic barn
guess i'll just wait a bit and hope things get tuned up, though i trust supergiant enough
full flame
chaos shield is still good
hollow sorrel
I bought the Zeus shield, I'd rather use that
heady zephyr
I preferred zeus shield before and they buffed it again
civic barn
not having your block with the other two shields (when they're flying) really pushes me towards zeus too
hollow sorrel
It seems like it moves faster, so it's not as horrible
civic barn
can you still outrun the shield?
hollow sorrel
yes
civic barn
sounds fine to me then 😛
hollow sorrel
and I still need to dash into it, to quickly pick it up sometimes
civic barn
yeah that's why i get the explosive return
tiny minnow
Game feels a lot harder all of a sudden.
solid cairn
Achilles spear is still good
tiny minnow
Did they do some rebalancing?
hollow sorrel
A lot of Athena's utility boons got nerfed., and her dash
granite echo
more bullets is always a good thing
onyx kestrel
i dont think zag rail is worth super investing into, but it's alright enough?
main problem with zag rail is that it's invalidated by a hammer
turbid needle
I have options between tripple fire, fury bomb, and rocket bomb, which should I take. I have a lot of damage upgrades on my attacks, but I have some extra damage on my special as well as a 15% crit chance with the special
radiant basin
Yeah like, why would i want zag aspect when hestia just does 15x damage in a shot
hollow sorrel
It's the least micro-management involved of the rails
heady zephyr
Ammo was never a big thing for me considering your accuracy degrades so aggressively
hollow sorrel
Eris wants you to constantly stand in your special explosions, and hestia wants you to legit reload after every shot
hollow sorrel
Eris and Hestia are kind of meh at level 1, also
turbid needle
Zag aspect scales well with damage upgrades is all I've found as it lets you fire the most continuously
solid cairn
I feel like sword and spear have been gutted. Only weapon that’s really good that I like is Hestia/Eris rail
radiant basin
I've tried to make a zag rail build like 10 times before and after the patch and I cannot get a build that feels like it does decent damage
hollow sorrel
I, personally, would just use the base rail, unless I had enough titan blood to get eris or hestia to at least level 4
burnt rune
main problem with zag rail is that it's invalidated by a hammer
Dunno, the "new" infinite ammo hammer feels bad to use thanks to the delay between bursts.
solid cairn
Infinity chamber was already bad
burnt rune
Would prefer a bunch of ammo to let procs loose than Delta Shot
radiant basin
Did they remove the +6 ammo and attack speed hammer upgrade
because i havent seen it
pallid dagger
I learned to stop using infinity chamber after i fully upgraded zag's aspect, because flurry fire upgraded it to 30 bullets + firing rate and accuracy upgrade, so the need to reload wasn't as pressing
hollow sorrel
they removed the explosive upgrade, i think
onyx kestrel
you're probably intended to dash between delta shot bursts
burnt rune
explosive is out, yeah
onyx kestrel
kinda takes a hestia-like playstyle but without reloading during dash i guess
radiant basin
burst dash burst might be okay if you have a good damage dash but it feels really really REALLY bad without one
burnt rune
it takes a while to be able to shot after the dash attack too
so you can't really keep up with it
burnt rune
(and keeping the aim steady in a single target is a mess)
pallid dagger
anyone else haunted by how the nerfs hit the shield's bull rush?
that update hit me right before the asterius and theseus fight....still sore.
hollow sorrel
the bull rush was a bit rediculous before tho
burnt rune
is it just me misremembering or is Spear special slightly slower? swear I could double tap the hell out of this sucker before
radiant basin
it is much slower
bold salmon
Question: if i go a heat above my bounty and complete the run does it automatically push me to the one after?
solid cairn
So they stealth nerfed spear
autumn bough
Spear throw already felt underwhelming, no matter its damage
solid cairn
Is what you’re saying
radiant basin
@bold salmon you get the rewards for the bounty level you are on, and it unlocks the rewards for the +1 no matter how high you go on heat
versed ibex
I just realized. "reload while dashing" makes more sense for kb + m players, I bet. Because on controller you reload by hitting R3, and dash is A... it's not easy to hit both those buttons at once
hexed shale
Yeah, vicious skewer was something I usually went for because of that
burnt rune
You don't need to hit both at once, you can quickly press dash before/after reload
autumn bough
Does anything in the game use those small rectangular gray tables in rooms? They are placed in a way that looks meaningful, but they don't seem to do anything.
hollow sorrel
You remap the reload to R1 on a controller
fleet surge
Has anyone else noticed that Pierced Butterfly doesn't activate in the Satyr Tunnels' rooms in the last area? If I can clear those without getting hit, I should get a bonus for it.
bold salmon
I have reload on L3
hollow sorrel
change it if you're using the rail
heady zephyr
Hestia got hit by the removal of explosive fire
hollow sorrel
way easier to dash+reload
bold salmon
I like it on l3 cuz its still easy to dash reload
versed ibex
I forgot I can remap. I'll definitely do that next time I start up the game
heady zephyr
I get why it had to go though, the bomb is the rail's aoe option
solid cairn
Hestia still great
radiant basin
@fleet surge it only activates in the last rooms per path in styx
burnt rune
can I get a feature to pull my casts by pressing reload with Hera Bow? :v
radiant basin
pretty sure its like that because some of the early rooms are like 1 enemy or 5 rats
lethal goblet
guan yu's aspect is pretty cool to look at but it feels really slow
hollow sorrel
I think the early rooms still eat up the room timers on the good buffs though
radiant basin
I havent cleared a medium or high heat run with guan yu but I tried it on low heat, I think it started to feel a lot better when I treated it more like a ranged weapon
if you dash the charge attack it travels farther and faster
burnt rune
It still feels like playing the game in slow motion though
looks nice but doesn't feel great
burnt rune
that might be it, I hate using both of those haha
radiant basin
people seem to have really strong opinions about it so far
I think that balancing a healing weapon in this game is a hard task
I'm sure they'll tweak it more
heady zephyr
I think lifesteal is a weird thing to introduce as an innate feature on a weapon aspect
It might have been better as a keepsake or boon tbh in terms of ease of balance
bold salmon
Ive picked up literally 5 poms all of which have shown the same 3 boons. That cant be normal?
radiant basin
a keepsake would be hard to balance too like how would you do it
chance on special hit or something?
burnt rune
I love the concept but after a couple runs it feels underwhelming not because of the life leech aspect, but because:
a) it makes me play slow in a fast game
b) after the initial shock, it's still the exact same toolset being used in the same way, except that you are made of paper; it doesn't change the weapon usage like Poseidon Sword, Zeus Shield, Hera Bow or Hestia Rail
heady zephyr
@radiant basin low chance on hit, or chance per enemy defeated maybe
Right, the thing is that lifesteal isn't worth tanking your entire health pool when you already have pretty accessible options for healing a big health pool imo
Although not nerfing your hp would have been crazy op, so I'm not sure what the solution exactly is
radiant basin
personally I think its a weapon designed for pierced butterfly
heady zephyr
Yeah, that makes sense
Or possibly plume if you've got the appetite for the risky playstyle
Since dodge is extremely valuable with the low health
burnt rune
I would be more interested if you had to earn the life leech somehow, like, you get it after hitting two combos, or each one of the spear moves, something like that
radiant basin
Yeah I thought about that too but it seems like it would be hard to reliably clear rooms quickly with how cumbersome it is
burnt rune
being able to spam it but also making you a target to do that feels conter productive
radiant basin
I'm not really a fan of any of the abilities in the game that are slow moving spinning discs tbh
burnt rune
you could do something like, dash attack lifesteals if hit right after skewer (or a backstab in general), so you had to quickly "combo" one enemy while also keeping yourself mobile
heady zephyr
I really like zeus shield but it is very cheesy
burnt rune
though dunno how easy something like that would be to implement
radiant basin
Yeah I was kind of wondering if you could put poseidon attack on guan and play like zeus shield basically
heady zephyr
The cheese combo potential with zeus shield is crazy
Eg, if you get the bull rush shot, you can throw the shield and then knock someone back into it after it flies past them
radiant basin
I just noticed they nerfed meg and than's summons
fossil wing
@radiant basin where are you seeing that?
radiant basin
2500 / 3500
pallid dagger
that's more tho
pallid dagger
that's a buff
radiant basin
I thought it was 3k/4k
pallid dagger
i also noticed than's aoe was bigger than before
thank heavens for that
heady zephyr
Yeah than got a buff
radiant basin
cool
fossil wing
Yeah, their damage is increased and Companion Mort should be easier to use between the increased radius and decreased 'pre-attack'.
pallid dagger
caladbolg/caliburn/excalibur maybe?
radiant basin
I think im gonna pour one out tonight for nemesis
teal laurel
oh yeah that sounds nice
then we can just make japanese into the rail
or egyptian
bow can be vishnu
heady zephyr
Who gets the last rail aspect then
autumn bough
Support Fire still ends up dealing more damage than the rail basic attack, so that's at least still good
teal laurel
amaterasu can work
unless you want to stick to strictly human then we can go with
suseri wife of okuni
clear haven
I feel like the Rail should go to some dismal Mesopotamian god. Or Pele.
Oooh, Pele! It replaces the mortar with it horks out a wad of lava!
teal laurel
or we can just go with Isis
heady zephyr
That would work actually
Yeah flamethrower/magma gun of some kind is the logical way to go with the last rail I think
clear haven
Pele it must be!
clear haven
@teal laurel I think they want to stick with deities predating or contemporaneous with the Hellenistics.
heady zephyr
Guan yu was from the 3k era though wasn't he
teal laurel
yeah
clear haven
Predating, then.
teal laurel
well Japan mythology was at leaszt the same time
clear haven
Oh, I see.
astral fjord
heady zephyr
Yeah 3k was waay after the peloponnesian wars
teal laurel
Indian is also at least the same as the ancient cultures
clear haven
I thought he was 220 BCE.
teal laurel
Egyptian is deffo earliest
heady zephyr
Which ties in to my theory that hades actually takes place in like 2550 or something
clear haven
@heady zephyr No reason it might not.
teal laurel
they could make the shield into roman
clear haven
Kinda doubt it tho.
teal laurel
like shield of octavius
heady zephyr
It would be really dumb
autumn bough
Except the gun is explicitly said to not have a counterpart among mortals
heady zephyr
Yeah but it's achilles who said that and this update establishes that he's out of touch by this point
Plus temple of Styx has like crankshafts ansld steel grilles in it
clear haven
We should prolly be in spoilers for this...
heady zephyr
I don't actually want it to be the case lol but it would be amusing
autumn bough
Oh right, the codex does have an unreliable narrator
teal laurel
reminder that theseus has minigun self driving chariot
finite thunder
I still remember being so shocked when i saw that
autumn bough
wot
pallid dagger
it's what he deserves
finite thunder
wait isn't that spoilers?
pallid dagger
i don't think so?
teal laurel
its mostly gameplay
pallid dagger
it's pact of punishment stuff
teal laurel
its a pact of punishment
and changes his playstyle and patterns
its not a story spoiler at the least
left timber
I like chariot theseus
thorny edge
weak is 30% instead of 50% now
left timber
Better than normal actually
pallid dagger
"you scratched the detailing!"
left timber
He just nyooms round and round
thorny edge
there's a new aphro boon that increases the effectiveness of weak, the epic version is +15%
heady zephyr
Weak needed nerfing, I'm totally behind that
pallid dagger
what's 30% of 40?
finite thunder
uh
kind fiber
12
pallid dagger
hmm
kind fiber
Why?
karmic coyote
The new bow special upgrade is bonker on chiron, just killed meg in like 20s
finite thunder
whoa
kind fiber
Why is artic blast so bad?
radiant basin
which one is arctic blast
radiant basin
oh
heady zephyr
Halve the stacks and its good
radiant basin
let me get you my screenshot from the first run I did in the update
radiant basin
river matrix
Just played a run to check out the new update, give nectar to Demeter, and ended up going all the way. Used the new upgrade on the sword that gives you health on hit + a lower health cap... absolutely bonkers. Will tide you over comfortably all the way till Hades, where you'll get one shot if you don't dodge properly.
thorny edge
chill is super easy to apply, as soon as that goes off you'll already be reapplying them
radiant basin
I mean the slow utility is optional
kind fiber
its 125 damage every 10 hits
radiant basin
Look at the screenshot i posted
becomes every 2 hits
from the rail attack
which is like, idk 1 second
kind fiber
Its better, still kinda bad
radiant basin
idk 125 dps is pretty strong
kind fiber
unless you don't all 5 with every attack
There are better boons for that sort of damage as well
radiant basin
Sure, but I would argue that many, maybe close to half of the boons in the game are pretty terrible without good synergy with other boons
and weapons and etc
kind fiber
Not many boons are actively detrimental outside of specific builds
radiant basin
It is not actively detrimental, I think you are really overvaluing 10 stacks of chill
If 10 stacks of chill is so important to your run then you probably have a way to stack it quickly anyway IE rail or chiron
radiant basin
Yeah I also think it's op but if you can stack it fast enough for 10 stacks to matter then what's stopping you from stacking it again
kind fiber
I had flurry blade for the sword, that wasn't fast enough
I imagine typical rail gun shots isn't fast enough
like
its this one specific set up
shotgun rail
radiant basin
You could go new dash attack on zag spear for 3 hits per dash attack, you could go chaos shield for 5 hits on special
chiron bow with hammer upgrade for literally over 10 hits
7 without the hammer
kind fiber
Eh, maybe two builds then, bow special might hit fast enough, I doubt the chaos shield hits fast enough though
heady zephyr
zeus shield is also very good for stacking status
kind fiber
It needs to be the same target
radiant basin
zeus shield probably could apply it somewhat quickly too but I dont play it,
and guan yu too
kind fiber
IT would be better for other effects like zeus lightning
burnt rune
huh, so World Smasher is basically an at will Poseidon Call huh
heady zephyr
World Smasher (Shield): newly added! Your Bull Rush is replaced with a powerful up-close strike
kind fiber
The special for the rail has a cooldown of like 3 seconds
Its also not easy to get them all to hit the same target
serene nexus
What's the best item to take into styx now that spearpoint has been nerfed to the ground?
heady zephyr
yeah it's not worth it for a paltry 75 damage unless you also have triple bomb
radiant basin
Can you get triple bomb and cluster together?
heady zephyr
good question
heady zephyr
yeah if you have that combo there are better synergies to go for
burnt rune
cluster is pretty not great, but also hilarious with poseidon for knocking back everything
heady zephyr
cluster works with rockets? good to know
serene nexus
lol.
autumn bough
What's "distant" for Distant Memory?
kind fiber
probably like 2/3rds of the radius of your screen?
serene nexus
Can't decide what's the best item to bring into styx. Is myrmidon the bets go-to?
burnt rune
holy crap World Smasher is h i l a r i o u s
latent moss
Hey guys, quick question, I'm struggling clearing with the bow, what's some good boons to use with it? Artemis?
pearl herald
man that lifesteal sword is kind of broken,basicaly facetanked the entire game and only had to do some decent dodges against the final boss
umbral yew
ye i like artemis for the bow
kind fiber
athena, aphro are both good
light trellis
@latent moss artemis is always good for damage. Aphrodite is good also
kind fiber
either athena or artemis on the dash are good boons
Dashing is very important
as dashing into attacks makes them much faster
latent moss
even on the gun with high fire rate?
kind fiber
sucked with flurry blade on the sword
latent moss
Yikes
hardy ginkgo
Also, can we possibly get like... A practice fishing area in the main area once weve unlocked it
Or did I miss it
kind fiber
Its not good at clearing small guys since small guys can't last 10 hits anyways
its not good against bosses since you'd rather have a consistent 40% slow
Its not particularly good in general
autumn bough
Hah, Theseus has a dialogue if you get there still carrying a Yarn
dense star
Yeah, that dialogue's good fun
umbral yew
hey does anyone know what the quest is to unlock the option to give dusa ambrosia?
sand glade
Does the Styx poison instantly kill you now if you don't have God Mode on? Or does the DPS consistent even while at 74% damage resistance?
kind fiber
thats the quest
umbral yew
to what extent? cause my lounge is pretty well renovated
kind fiber
I dunno
dense star
If anything, it'd be nice if there was a compendium (say in the codex) that lets you see what boons & hammer upgrades do if you've encountered them prior.
kind fiber
You probably need the prompt for it first though
umbral yew
or maybe i just havent been patient enough
burnt rune
oh dang, charp is worth nectars instead of gems
Theseus has multiple dialogues if you have the yarn, last time I did it ||Minotaur got angry over Theseus words about the princess||
umbral yew
thanks though Ascended, i like knowing that it is something simple like that cause il get it done just from playing
its not something weird and out of the way
teal wren
So I did a couple runs and found only a single fishing spot, but maybe i didnt pay enough attention, are they that rare?
radiant basin
I've seen anywhere from 0-3 in a run
kind fiber
@teal wren You can find them in charon's shops usually
They are rare
but you can see them like 2-5 times in a run
radiant basin
They're not only in charon's shop
teal wren
Oh cool, the one I found was in the dryad's place
radiant basin
they spawn on normal combat maps for sure
kind fiber
Yeah, they seem to appear in non combat zones
Oh?
I see them mostly on the non combats
radiant basin
I've seen them on both with about equal frequency
kind fiber
maybe i'm just not paying attention then
radiant basin
I'm not 100% sure but I think sometimes I get the sound as I'm leaving the room instead of when I clear it
which may be a bug
seems like
autumn bough
Does the new area in the House with the urns and such do anything?
kind fiber
Not that I know of
burnt rune
hm, reading the feedback channel, feels like I'm the only one who doesn't mind the raise in Charon's prices lol
kind fiber
personally, I feel like that should be kept to the heat option mostly
teal wren
Keep the boons at 200 but the hammer ought to be back to 200 too
radiant basin
I think it would be pretty brutal on 32 heat
teal wren
Missing a hammer due to not having obol feels so bad
radiant basin
and by that i mean completely prohibitive
but boons were already pretty hard to buy on 32
burnt rune
I don't think I ever seen hammer on the shop 
kind fiber
yeah, first fishing success
really?
I mean like ever?
Its not the most common thing, but it definitely happens
unborn sparrow
hammer costs 250 in shop now
burnt rune
honestly cannot remember it, when I read the price increase in the patch notes my reaction was "wait, that can happen?"
radiant basin
ohh I just turned in 2 different fish for keys and darkness
was pretty sure they were all going to give different things
teal wren
Well you still abide by 1 hammer until Elysium where you may have your second
radiant basin
wait is that how it works
teal wren
But yeah whenever you're in a shop and didnt pick your hammer yet it may spawn
radiant basin
you can only get 1 hammer any way until elysium
burnt rune
I wish it happened more frequently during tartarus, usually I got both hammers on elysium; though after today's patch, by coincidence or note, I've been getting more tartarus hammers
none on shops though D:
unborn sparrow
who?
unborn sparrow
Well, how are you using her, what boons and weapons?
teal wren
Extra damage when you're outta crystals is reasonable
spark turret
tried quite a few
and on that someone else suggested
like idk she feels underwhelming in a lot of ways
halcyon wraith
she's great with multi-hit/rapid hit weapons, and her cast, especially paired with Artemis, is crazy
spark turret
so the charon bow or whatever its called, the lock on one
kind fiber
She has solid % damage, so while you wont be stacking the slow, it isn't terrible to find her on a slow weapon either
radiant basin
Yeah charon is a good option
unborn sparrow
I dunno about that, bounce spear or just bow in general does great work with her special if you use it to spread it
spark turret
so I got the 11 bolts
unborn sparrow
and it's Chirons bow
spark turret
the explosion
radiant basin
sorry yeah
unborn sparrow
You're fine
spark turret
woulda taken any other god in my eyes
unborn sparrow
Bow Q only applies a single on hit per target when using it km
native kestrel
What's the timing on fishing? I got ~5 opportunities and 0 fish to show for it. Is there any kind of indicator for when I'm supposed to press?
spark turret
coupled with her legendary skill
unborn sparrow
No it won't
unborn sparrow
Guess I'll have to try another run with it then.
rancid shore
Is there any kind of indicator for when I'm supposed to press?
when the bob completely submerges
kind fiber
@native kestrel if the bobber submerges, thats your que
rancid shore
it's a very short window
halcyon wraith
i don't think the explosion boon is good actually, in fact i would say it can ruin builds
unborn sparrow
it does
halcyon wraith
it feels counter-intuitive to the whole point of the rest of the boons
unborn sparrow
far better with the DOT one.
silver island
@native kestrel when one bites, the bobber disappears, and there's a white flash
kind fiber
The new explosion boon for the rail gun?
native kestrel
I didn't even see the bob. Thanks, now I know what to look for
native kestrel
🎣
radiant basin
@native kestrel there's two animations for fishing, one is a nibble and one is a sink
spark turret
idk in my eyes right now she doesn't seem good from what i've been trying
but I
I'm open to suggestions on builds
but like for high skulls it doesn't feels worth it over most of the others
unborn sparrow
The all enemies being chilled dealing dot is pretty great
halcyon wraith
i'd see if you can sell the explosion boon and get the one that applies dot if you freeze everyone
grand idol
Demeter is strong for her status effect. She offers good % damage that's decent as well.
radiant basin
@spark turret if you really want to stick with arctic blast here's mine https://puu.sh/F2gMY/acd5c04f13.jpg
But you could just not take it and keep 10 stacks too
spark turret
I wish I could post mine but I can't
grand idol
Her duo boon with poseidon's cast is pretty dope
kind fiber
OH
spark turret
idk I am really unlucky and can't get any dou skill with her yet
grand idol
But her cast feels pretty meh.
kind fiber
Whats the dem pos duo?
unborn sparrow
Her cast is good for dropping all at once, combining with the bonus damage without casts ready.
other than that it's good in styx for the pit rooms
grand idol
Moves slower, knocksback, doesnt stick in enemies, and summons little winter vortexes
unborn sparrow
Most other cases you want a duo to make it worth it.
spark turret
the trade off of not being able to have a cast in an enemy really hurts me withit
the dou makes it good
kind fiber
Damn thats alot of stuff
spark turret
but I can't see it working without dou rn
bosses just outrun it
enemys out run it
unborn sparrow
don't think so
grand idol
I dont think so
grand idol
The duo cast is best with the hermes cast speed buff.
spark turret
I had hermes cast speed buff
grand idol
But even then it can be a bit slow.
spark turret
but like I said artemis doesn't like giving me dou
bitter fog
Ok sorry if this is off topic but has anyone noticed that you have to play super defensive/evasive as of latest update?
kind fiber
No?
radiant basin
no
kind fiber
maybe a little bit in styx?
spark turret
no the game feels the same most of the time to the last update
grand idol
The lack of good healing means I cant be as reckless.
spark turret
styx feels slower and hades is kinda like rng rolling in my eyes now
kind fiber
Did the healing drop in the game?
spark turret
no but charon prices raised
radiant basin
Charon prices only raised on boons and hammers
grand idol
The nerf to the pickups has hampered my particular style
kind fiber
What pickups did they nerf?
grand idol
The pickups only heal for 10 now
kind fiber
okay
grand idol
The health sandwiches
radiant basin
the ones from the well buff?
spark turret
dude the boon and hammer raise hurts so much in my eyes
bitter fog
I feel mainly I have to play careful with all ranged, albeit shield, or else I rarely complete runs on higher heat anymore
spark turret
makes styx feel super pricy
grand idol
Styx price upgrade is nasty
bitter fog
yeah the price increase hurts early on
halcyon wraith
agreed
unborn sparrow
No, not at all
spark turret
I enjoy the game being harder
radiant basin
how high is high heat
unborn sparrow
Styx still forces you to be agressive more than not with the pots.
radiant basin
when people say high heat what number do you think
pallid dagger
when the update hype cools down i think i'll go into the feedback channel and beg someone to tone down the satyr cultists
haven't seen an enemy this aggravating since the Y.E.T.I.s
halcyon wraith
11+?
bitter fog
like 18+ heat
dense token
20+ is high heat to me
spark turret
16+ is high to me
radiant basin
yeah I think at least 16
dense token
maybe 18+ because 17 is extreme measures + middle management + maxed forced overtime + tight deadline
bitter fog
i usually just have all the weapons go at the same time but it feels like anymore styg/vartha cant keep up with the defensive weapons
dense token
which is still tolerable
grand idol
The game lives and dies on the boons. Sometimes I get so unlucky I have nothing and just stand in the bad stuff and forfeit the run. With the price increase it's harder to secure needed boons.
spark turret
I mean I run with 100% extra damage half of the time
radiant basin
You would take 50% forced overtime over like, enemy damage?
spark turret
so I mean lmao
radiant basin
that's fair
spark turret
whats forced overtime?
radiant basin
movement and attack speed on enemies
grand idol
Faster enemies
dense token
enemies are 50% faster
grand idol
I hate trap damage.
bitter fog
huh i find that one more manageable
grand idol
I just want to be reckless damn it
bitter fog
I greatly dislike giving them more health cause it feels like a slug fest already
grand idol
Guan yu will find a nerf though, unless healing off of hitting the urns is intentional.
dense token
calisthenics program is deceptively hard for a lot of builds
radiant basin
30% HP on bosses is not small
dense token
yup
spark turret
also what are your opinion on the zag spear changes
unborn sparrow
makes rushing down or oneshotting thesius a lot harder during his phase 2 transition.
grizzled tusk
I HATE IT
radiant basin
lmao healing from hitting urns must be a bug
grizzled tusk
I MISS DOING MY SKEWER YONDU BUILD
radiant basin
there's no way they intended that
bitter fog
yeah thats probs not intended
spark turret
also I asked this awhile back too but have any of you noticed that chaos is bugged?
dense token
the urn healing thing isnt even that great anyway, guan yu wont lose much when it's gone
bugged how
bitter fog
guan yu imo is bad
unborn sparrow
How is chaos bugged?
spark turret
so if you have runs that have 2 chaos boons that give the same buff
dense token
guan yu is really good if you take weak tbh
grand idol
High heat sucks in general. Slug fest, less boons, less perks if you use tight budget. What's the point of playing the game if the only way to make it harder is to make it lwss fun?
unborn sparrow
I see
pallid dagger
well said @grand idol
radiant basin
have any of you tried guan yu with athena's buffed call
unborn sparrow
Generally don't get lucky enough to get multiple ones on what I want
grizzled tusk
have any of you done guan yu with athena attack
because the deflect range on the spin is
MASSIVE
pallid dagger
when i think challenging fun, i think upping the enemies, the damage, etc. going into high heat just ends up requiring you to weaken or sacrifice hard-earned cool stuff instead
spark turret
I was supposed to get + after 3 rooms, 2 rooms later got another with similar boon at end, and after the next room did not get my plus 1
radiant basin
lol, that sounds amazing actually
dense token
i feel like the only high heat modifiers that make the game less fun are like, calisthenics program, jury summons, no choice, underworld customs
grand idol
Also Zag aspect spear is ResidentSleeper. A flat ten damage for 5 titan's blood? Boring.
spark turret
I've sent ina bug splat but I am wondering if anyone else has had the same bug
unborn sparrow
Jury summons is hella fun for the extra gold obols though.
radiant basin
I have not had that bug
dense token
middle management is ok, the medusa/stone head and new soul catcher rooms are cool and i wish it was like that for all middle management rooms instead of just adding more enemies
burnt rune
Zag aspects are 
in general
unborn sparrow
Even if it is a lot less so with the raised shop prices
spark turret
I had one of my other friends recreate it
dense token
jury summons sucks with tight deadline though :(
unborn sparrow
True
spark turret
and it seems to be reproducable
spark turret
I'll try to catch it on stream next time
radiant basin
the way a lot of heat options synergize feels really oppressive
like jury summons + tight deadline
unborn sparrow
Tight deadline is pretty fun, but it does limit how powerful you can get and kills certain playstyles for me though
bitter fog
u guys feel broken spear needs to stay nerfed? I always felt it was too op with bow and rail but somewhat needed for varatha and stygian.
radiant basin
I wish that so many of them didnt have to do with taking damage/healing and enemy health
I wish inferno bomb was a heat option like bastion
grand idol
I mean, yeah the Zag aspects arent great but at least the others feel more impactful. Reduced damage, base crit, movespeed (Rip 30%).
grand idol
Spearpoint needs to have that cooldown reduced. Better off using Myrmidon now
bitter fog
my main thing is with the boss buff heat you tax so much hp with hydra and heroes it feels needed to finish off hades
dense token
i dont like myrmidon because if i'm getting hit it's usually by the things i'm paying less attention to, which are usually behind me
grand idol
Now let's also remember. We are talking up things we dislike. It is because we care about and enjoy this game. What's some stuff we're liking about the new patch?
onyx knot
spark turret
oh I am trying to discus buggs not bad things
latent badger
Is anyone hearing a grinding noise while they play? I'm hearing this noise in certain areas and it's driving me nuts
mighty ermine
guan yu definitely forced me to be extra cautious versus hades
bitter fog
i enjoy all the new stuff for the house, but honestly felt so good about the game but recent patch got me acting strange
spark turret
I mean this patch has been godlike in terms of dialogue
bitter fog
^
spark turret
asphodel update is blessed
bitter fog
i just feel eh about all the nerfs
spark turret
and also who on gods name made hydra so much better
they deserve a raise
best change by far
radiant basin
the new environments are 😍
bitter fog
yeah hydra was actually awful before like dreaded seeing that snake
spark turret
fixed so many pacing problems
dense token
hydra is fun now!
grand idol
I still hate hydra, but that's me. The story is coming along well.
bitter fog
still love Theseus and mino best
dense token
though I still think the extreme version is a little cramped
kind fiber
What are the requirements for the zeus + dem duo?
spark turret
hyrda is chaotic and hard af
dense token
but it's w/e, just personal taste
bitter fog
yeah extreme hydra is why i had to use spearpoint with varatha and stygian
unborn sparrow
New hydra is absolutely a great improvement
exotic crane
hi there, just starting this game, should i learn how to play on keyboard/mouse or gamepad?
unborn sparrow
Far less boring in all aspects besides lore
bitter fog
gamepad
unborn sparrow
Whichever you're more used to
grand idol
I enjoy the fishing. Hope we can do some outside the actual runs because I enjoy a goos bit of downtime.
unborn sparrow
I'd say keyboard and mouse.
kind fiber
I'm fine with using the keyboard
mighty ermine
hydra hitting a little harder makes me take it more seriously now; definitely a good thing
kind fiber
probably are
spark turret
\but thats cus I lowkey speedrun through the game half of the time
radiant basin
I would think ex hydra is 100% fine if like, I didnt bounce off his stupid invulnerable face, or the hitboxes on the extra heads being weird sometimes
mighty ermine
there's a distinct audio cue after an encounter if a spot is in the room
radiant basin
bouncing off invuln shields into lava 😩😩😩
grand idol
Aiming is better with keyboard and mouse, but game feels better movement wise with gamepad
bitter fog
extreme Theseus and mino are crazy i cant have those guys anymore they tax my death defiance too much before hades
radiant basin
Just take your time and turn off tight deadline
fossil wing
@radiant basin we removed the invulnerable 'impulse' from the Hydra (and most bosses in the game except the final one).
radiant basin
😍
spark turret
I don't have tight deadline on
radiant basin
thank you blessed amir
spark turret
I just like to go fast
unborn sparrow
Can't agree with the movement part really.
spark turret
I speedrun games is a habbit
grand idol
Fishing sound needs more announcement. For the fast paced nature of the game in general it's easy to miss our fishy friends.
But I'll take fishing in any game I can get it.
radiant basin
@spark turret me too, I have to constantly think about not mashing A so i can see the new dialogue lol
radiant basin
Yeah I saw
I want to say I think I saw someone else say they had a bug with boons today but I cant remember...
spark turret
I did a bug report like 12 hours ago
spark turret
I'll wait till tomorrow to take it to tech
little gale
spark turret
I force a lot of chaos stacking
little gale
what is this
grizzled tusk
because I was so used to running up and getting the boon
little gale
why i cant level up my death defiance
grizzled tusk
The mirror allows you to spend darkness (a currency) for permanent upgrades
grand idol
You have tight budhet on
grizzled tusk
Since you have tight budget
bitter fog
u have budget cuts on @little gale ?
grizzled tusk
it's rip
spark turret
lmao
grizzled tusk
it caps the darkness you're allowed to spend
spark turret
you know we've played to much when we can all tell these things
radiant basin
@little gale your budget is in the top left
grand idol
Tight budget suuuucks
grizzled tusk
just like in real life
spark turret
tight budget is easy
bitter fog
yeah that actually is my least favorite
grizzled tusk
good thing zag doesn't have student loan payments
spark turret
I only play with 1 death defiance anyway
grand idol
Doesnt mean it doesnt suck
bitter fog
it just takes away what i feel is essential
spark turret
so it doesn't matter to me half of the time
bitter fog
like cast and health
little gale
:( but its not real life why did they do this
grizzled tusk
Well you can just pick a different modifier
grand idol
You turned it on in your pact of punishment
grand idol
Remember to spend your darkness again after turning off Tight Budget
autumn bough
Wow, Hermes actually has a mute option
grand idol
Yeah, weird none of the others do.
radiant basin
💸 Gotta 💸 Go 💸 Fast 💸
spark turret
super sanic fast
grand idol
Question: How do you all feel aboit the aesthetic of Dio now? Hangover titkes fit more, but the poison mechanic fits less. It's a bit bland.
Forgive my spelling. On my phone.
radiant basin
the dream
radiant basin
serrated edge is so good
it feels so bad when i trip a dash over a gap in elysium because serrated edge but the damage
waxen imp
it is so good
grand idol
I get that. Dio feels like he could use a rework imo. There are better suited gods for poison.
waxen imp
probably the only downside to the new spear is that it's way harder on bosses
because low hp
radiant basin
well, I mean
grizzled tusk
*It's only hard on hades
spark turret
yah makes hades a nightmare
radiant basin
alcohol is poison
grizzled tusk
Everybody else gets shredded
spark turret
since you can get 1 shot
grizzled tusk
Hades can onetap you with the spin
spark turret
its cool
radiant basin
but I get what you're saying
spark turret
but the jar bug still existing
and hades being kinda wonky rn in my eyes
makes it hard
grand idol
The health penalty is super severe with guan yu
spark turret
I love the concept of it though
grand idol
There's a reason you use darkness to unlock +50 health before you usually even beat hades.
radiant basin
I think my guan yu build would have to have athena call and zeus +call generation because... im bad
spark turret
I don't think you're bad
radiant basin
😊
grand idol
And yeah same. I like the concept, execution needs work. Feels like that's part of the reason spearpoint was nerfed
radiant basin
I lowkey always liked athena call more than spearpoint
you can pop athena before you take damage
fleet surge
Always loved the Pierced Butterfly
radiant basin
And you have to get hit for spearpoint to do anything at all
radiant basin
No its the 1.5s invuln keepsake
spark turret
ooohhhh
surreal kestrel
and it got nerfed specifically for guan yu
which isnt even a good enough aspect to take
surreal kestrel
patroclus is as good for that area as sysiphus and euridice
especially considering the slow progression to that point on a new save
radiant basin
idk I dont like patroclus either
teal laurel
TBH
if i really wany to tryhard
id use patroclus all areas
in the old state
cause its just that good
radiant basin
I think its pretty cheesy to just be able to get 1200 gold of death defiance on high heat runs
I mean
grand idol
Guan aspect doesnt feel good to level. The health penalty should be tweaked but I'd like to see the innate health leech increased. Or faster spins to increase hits.
surreal kestrel
yeah that's fair
surreal kestrel
i see what you mean when you put it like that
teal laurel
it needs to have something more
grand idol
I mean, guan yu feels bad a bit to begin with.
surreal kestrel
patroclus isnt "nice to see", its just bad to not see him
radiant basin
Yeah
grand idol
Because you put yourself at even more risk to use that slow as heck spin attack
autumn bough
Sometimes I don't care much about Patroclus, but this time I used two DD on zero heat hydra somehow
grand idol
On higher heat, or with Forced Overtime youre in a world of hurt
radiant basin
im the only person who likes hades aspect
radiant basin
what do you mean?
surreal kestrel
the pros don't outweigh the cons either way but like
grand idol
Hades Aspect is good with proper boons. Guan yu still feels risky without much reward.
waxen imp
you use the spin attack at a range and you barely charge it
radiant basin
guan yu has a new charge attack and health on hit
surreal kestrel
guan yu is balanced around weaknesses
waxen imp
guan yu is great at everything besides bosses
surreal kestrel
it's slower than regular, it reduces your max health
radiant basin
I think they just wanted to try making a healing weapon
and then had to balance it because the idea is pretty op
in this game
surreal kestrel
it encourages spin attack which has always been bad and left you vulnerable
grand idol
I mean, this just upped vulnerability
surreal kestrel
no you're 100% correct buntcake but that's the point im making
waxen imp
the spin attack has really good range now though
grand idol
You start with what, 20,21 health?
waxen imp
so you can use it more safely
surreal kestrel
they started with something strong and overtuned in the opposite direction
radiant basin
20 I think but most aspects are pretty bad at lvl 1
I think if you're going to play it on high heat you just cant run forced overtime
GL on 32 idk
grand idol
But that in turn makes high heat even less worthwhile
hardy ginkgo
I'm hoping Hermes is reworked... Seems pointless to take him at this point
radiant basin
- dashes is always good
kind fiber
I mean
grand idol
Hermes make me fast. Me like fast.
hardy ginkgo
Sure but that's about it
kind fiber
hermes has strong boons?
radiant basin
The heal recovery is good
surreal kestrel
hermes has some strong boons
kind fiber
% speed on attack, special and casts are great
hardy ginkgo
He lost his thing with the loss of slow effects
surreal kestrel
and then very basic ones that dont feel impactful
kind fiber
I never took him for that anyways
surreal kestrel
the slows were not the strong ones
grand idol
I want Chaos to also give move speed increase. Let me speed, Supergiant.
radiant basin
the % speed ones imo are situationally good, like the attack speed is pretty good on cough guan yu
kind fiber
Whats the requirement for the zeus dem duo?
surreal kestrel
is pretty funny at least
kind fiber
kk
radiant basin
I cant remember what i had to get it
kind fiber
What did it do?
surreal kestrel
off-topic, is anyone else not liking the bow this patch or is it all in my head
kind fiber
Bow seems fine?
radiant basin
@kind fiber
surreal kestrel
i've won with everything but the bow so far
radiant basin
The duo makes jolted not expire when enemies attack
So if you have something that you can hit lightning with like 1 time to apply jolted and not really worry about it its pretty good
dim ridge
The Demeter/dionysis boon is pretty nuts, especially with the dionysis/zeus to go alongside it
I just won an 8 heat guan yu run with that combo and i wasnt even using the heal function lmfao
it was just a cast build with crazy low max hp basically
untold anchor
Seems like most the weapons (not all the aspects mind you) are fine. But, at higher heat, with all the buffs/nerfs you may find build variation not as viable.
kind fiber
What does dem + dion do?
dim ridge
your festive fog explodes a second time dealing more damage
dim ridge
+50% damage specifically
very very very good
i was on guan yu so i didnt even have any extra cast damage up
rose geode
Oof
dim ridge
just +1 blood stone
radiant basin
rip
dim ridge
and each set of them i threw did probably a quarter of Hades hp
rose geode
Pair that with Artemis double cast
dim ridge
yeah
lusty lodge
did devs add collision to the bow's charging line? Im getting frustrated because of it
dim ridge
if you could manage to get the zeus/demeter, dionysus/demeter, dionysus/zeus, with artemis double cast and legendary on poseidon spear
i think that would probably be the single most powerful cast build i can imagine
obviously chaos boons and such help as well but the strongest that can be somewhat reliably set up
rose geode
You mean achilles spear?
waxen imp
i just tried charged volley on bow