and that's before I got the legendary
#h1-builds-and-combat
lament coral
grand idol
Knockback is dampened on bosses though. Far less. Effective. Useless against Hydra.
lament coral
it's only really bad because Hydra moves mostly while invulnerable
however, like I already said, your Poseidon attacks have built-in push
versed quest
well, it seem that I dont know enough to continue the conversation, good luck!
lament coral
and it affects everyone, you just don't notice it without the right upgrades
however, it's enough to proc rupture
grand idol
Rupture is procced like Exposed. Doesnt matter if you knockback or not, the attack still causes it.
grand idol
Right, which requires the enemy to move. Most bosses move on their own anyways. The biggest issue isnt rupture though. It's that Poseidon is built around the idea of wall slams but that's neqr useless on bosses.
lament coral
well, you can't work the furies, hydra, or Hades into walls, but bull and king are an option
I'm not saying those collision boons are good, they're not
grand idol
Which means his gimmick is useless on bosses save for the %damage increase.
lament coral
yeah
he needs a rework
he's the only god I'm never excited to see
and the only god whose keepsake I never took after leveling to the max
grand idol
I think he serves his purpose as a room clearer. Wall slams and knockback is strong.
lament coral
I disagree, none of that is relevant when you have universally beneficial offensive gods
grand idol
But you cant pivot towards the end. You end up fighting hades with a subpar boon.
digital vessel
he's weaker in general, but if you use keepsakes to force yourself into a poseidon-zeus heavy build it will work for boss fights with rupture & jolt constantly up. not optimal but works, esp with rail
grand idol
Not everyone can be king of the mountain though. Personally, I think Zeus and Ares mostly suck.
lament coral
see, that's the thing though
you could just as well force any other duo combo and be better off at all times
Zeus is the god for attack rail
unlike literally every other god, Zeus gives you flat damage
grand idol
I just want knockback to work on bosses so I can corner screw them like styx
final fox
zeus attack + artemis support fire = you've already won the game with rail
grand idol
Maybe. Zeus' flat damage is pretty garbo
It's what, an extra 13 on top of the 10 the rail does?
final fox
130% damage increase that also bounces to other enemies
final fox
I think ares is the best god for chiron bow
no wait, hear me out
doom on special is 70-140 damage depending on rarity, chiron special does 7x10 damage at max aspect level
that's a 100%-200% damage increase, better than most percentage boons, and it still lets you fan fire to clear rooms if you don't lock on
but then you get dire misfortune, which adds another 5-10 doom damage per hit, that's an additional 40-80% damage
and then impending doom, which multiplies(!) your doom damage by like 70-100%
carmine raven
agree on Ares is good on chiron special
carmine raven
even doom doesn't stack, it's still good than expected
Chiron has problem to clear room, and doom helps a lot
lament coral
or you could just get Artemis special on Chiron and explode everyone with your 60x7 arrow burst
that's 420, btw
carmine raven
Ares/Artemis/Dino are good on Chiron's special, not sure which one is the best
carmine raven
my choice is Artemis > Ares > Dino
untold widget
ive been struggling on achilles spear, any good recommendations?
final fox
raging rush -> spin attack
untold widget
are those daed
final fox
get that 150% damage on your spin
raging rush is the dash
spin attack is the spear's charge attack
carmine raven
@untold widget using cast after Raging Rush
untold widget
oh, you just meant for the combo
final fox
yes
untold widget
i thought you were saying for daed upgrades
final fox
for daed upgrades, quick spin and massive spin are both great
final fox
don't get multiskewer, it'll make you unable to control where you dash to
untold widget
unless i get quick spin i guess
final fox
also remember that the raging rush damage boost also applies to your casts
so get a good damage cast and use it
untold widget
if i use it with ares cast does it apply to the whole thing?
final fox
yes
untold widget
dope
lament coral
@untold widget the easiest way to play Achilles spear is to play Zagreus instead
alternatively, use a cast based build
Achilles rush into cast shot
final fox
also you can use the spear throw for mobility, not just damage
lament coral
it's kinda like Poseidon sword, except worse
final fox
it doesn't give you iframes but it does move you a long way
untold widget
i think you mean nemesis sword
lament coral
no, Poseidon
untold widget
the cast one?
lament coral
yes
untold widget
how?
grand idol
Probably means because of teh %damage increase to cast
lament coral
how is Achilles' amplification of 2 damage instances comparable to the flat cast increase?
because your cast, on average, can do more damage than 2 attacks
here's a simple example
formal basin
I agree with Zepp, purely from a math perspective. Achilles is for casting, preferably the big nukes like Ares and Dio.
lament coral
your cast does 50 damage, you have 3 casts: with Poseidon's +50% cast damage, you're able to do 75 x 3 = 225 with your casts; with Achilles's +150% damage on the next 2 damage instances, you're able to do (50+75) x 2 = 250
the down side is that you need to use the spear rush
and you've got a cast to spare
formal basin
And there's no recovery option.
lament coral
if they're stuck, they're stuck
final fox
if they're stuck, you spin
lament coral
and die, because you're playing with 50% Overtime and enemies won't wait around for you to charge
but sure, spin away
formal basin
Spin feels sub par since you waste your first charge on a regular attack then are vulnerable.
final fox
you don't have to charge to max
and you can dash out of the spin charge to move the aoe with you
lament coral
I know, I don't charge at all unless I cleared the room and am standing on top of enemy summoning circle
formal basin
Well, I suppose you can cancel cast into spin though.
lament coral
you know what Hades aspect should do?
it should allow you to move and dodge while you're charging
without interrupting the charge
boom
it's like shield's rush, cept you're trading block for big damage
formal basin
I would love that
Because I like hades aspect, but it can be a real problem getting spins safely.
teal laurel
my favorite cast build is actually hera
but its mostly because of how fun bladerift/ festive fog hera is
I dont understand Achilles cast build
grand idol
Throw, dash, cast.
grand idol
It's best with Aphro's cast honestly.
Otherwise you end up waiting for the stuff to drop. Though Ares' can chunk some stuff pretty hard.
teal laurel
i like artemis pos aspect
grand idol
Atermis cast feels so disappointing when it doesn't crit
teal laurel
yeah but its just that artemis cast works well with other atemis stuff
grand idol
Artemis Call has teh same feeling. But Artemis is strong overall. Her best boon is the % to crit anything.
final fox
artemis cast should have the same crit chance as her call
formal basin
Yeah, I love Artemis, just her cast feels undertuned.
grand idol
Keep in mind, they balance it around its aim-seeking
formal basin
If the cast has the same chance as the call, how are they different beyond max call though?
final fox
call does more base damage
lament coral
as much as I'd like to use Hera, its bugs annoy me
plus, Chiron is just so much fun
glad mantle
nocturne dirge
I had a hestia rail run this morning where I was doing upwards of 850 per attack
solid cairn
Hestia is so good cuz you get the Artemis dash attack damage and another attack boon it’s insane @nocturne dirge
nocturne dirge
Yeah I had like three +attack chaos boons also
dire fable
yeah, and managed to only die once too
wheat hamlet
don't know if this is the place to ask this, but during my run, the item in the doors sometimes have a golden tint to them, is that anything special?
lament coral
I don't know what you're talking about
wheat hamlet
I'll try to snap a picture
lament coral
F11 in game
wheat hamlet
humm I cant seem to post the pic here
grand idol
I want to reiterate and hope that a thing changes: Hydra sucks.
wheat hamlet
lament coral
oh, you bought the contractor upgrade for darkness, right?
you get 5 max HP from darkness room rewards
teal laurel
Hydra is fine
its just tedious
man im rusty with the sword
i memed with the bow too much
wheat hamlet
humm yeah that may be it, I kinda hoarded gems and then went wild with him xD
lament coral
did you buy the gem and key upgrades, too?
wheat hamlet
didn't actually saw what they did
lament coral
they should have a shine as well
grand idol
Nearly have all my weapons under 20 minute clear times
astral fjord
Is it just me or is scintillating feast bugged?
stray frigate
@astral fjord what is this boon?
astral fjord
the zeus/dio duo
stray frigate
fog is making lightning?
stray frigate
Dio leg looks like doesnt work too
stray frigate
spear?
ornate remnant
what time est does hades usually update
icy edge
24 hrs from now
stray frigate
playing rail
found hammer
have 3 special upgrade http://prntscr.com/qqeogf
pallid sky
so how much hp does 0 heat hades have anyway
grand idol
I DIED. My speed streak failed me.
untold widget
what was it?
grand idol
I was using Achilles' Aspect, Hades got me.
It was Theseus and the Mino that got me really. Took a lot of dumb damage on there.
stray frigate
what build?
grand idol
Poseidon Special, Aphro Attack and Cast. Had Rupture. Deflect dash. Aphro call.
Oh and uhhh
Spin attack increased range + damage, and then Skewer (bouncing special). Which, my daedalus boons sucked.
All in all, fun build.
But I was all about that SPEEEEEEED
untold widget
DEJA VU
stray frigate
sup
did u do 32 heat?
ok
lol
u just took 2 best thing in the game
like HB and Chaos shield?
of course it's good
aaaand athena dash
3 best thing in the game
and it's vicious cycle
and... 0 heat?
😄 well it's not bad biuld
HB is just the strongest boon in the game
untold widget
i think you should be more supportive gznm
untold widget
personally, ive never been able to snag hunting blades @turbid needle so good on ya! :P
stray frigate
i tried HB with Achiles@untold widget
i never saw Hades died so fast
lol imagine you hb with 150% damage
Achiles best cast spear
astral fjord
can boons appear again if u purge them?
turbid needle
yes
formal basin
HB Achiles spear with Ares Legendary sounds terrifying
turbid needle
i've been slowly withering away, hbu
turbid needle
nice, you got a lot better at it, good on you 👍
astral fjord
the update is so close!
pallid sky
hoyp
fallow niche
I think Hestia Rail is now confirmed as top tier next to Chaos shield
Just saw someone complete a 32 heat run with it
That's impressive
serene nexus
@glad mica What build did he run
wind vale
im sure you can do 32 independent of weapon and aspect technically
hunting blades is just that strong
serene nexus
Relying on getting a specific build has messed up so many of my runs tbh.
fallow niche
Wasn't hunting blades
And hunting blades is great DPS but the build is wonky to put together and lacks defensive qualities
Athena is pretty important for 32 heat runs
wind vale
its insanely good defensively - you dont have to get that close
serene nexus
It needs a ton of specific boons. It also requires getting Ares around... 3 - 4 times at least
fallow niche
^
serene nexus
And that’s assuming RNG doesn’t mess things up
fallow niche
That's pretty much just cheating at that point
You can beat any heat by doing that
With almost any build
serene nexus
I just don’t find it reliable tbh but then again I don’t see the point in cranking the heat that high either
fallow niche
Athena builds can consistently give you a very good shot of beating 32 heat with shield and Rail
Assuming you don't get totally rolled by RNG
@serene nexus I think if you're not going for speedruns or high heat then you shouldn't worry too much about your build
Pretty much anything can clear and people should just concentrate on having fun
serene nexus
My highest is around 9 heat or so
But I’m slowly working my way up by using all the weapons
fallow niche
Yee. All weapons are good, but not all aspects. I suggest giving them all a try and forming your own preferences
My bae is Poseidon sword and nobody else here appreciates it 😭
fallow niche
Hahahaha
Nemesis sword is very good too
I just really like the gameplay of the Poseidon sword
Also its massive damage numbers
serene nexus
Fair. I don’t like Eris rail since standing in the circle for damage (which usually has a group of enemies in it) is a sure fire way to take unnecessary damage.
wind vale
you can dash into it last moment now and it still works fine
but i usually do eris with rockets since they are a lot faster
and short range rockets still work fine to get the buff
mental current
the single most OP build I ever played was having the rail shoot 3 specials quickly, AND turned them into rockets instead of mortars. Sends every underworld wretch into low orbit every ~4 seconds. Seems like eris rail wouldn't work with those daedalus upgrades though :-X
wind vale
it would - thats what i was saying - you just have to stand close enough to the explosion
fallow niche
Yeah you just need to be in the explosion radius
fallen quarry
I haven't run much 32 heat on the rail, done it with the sword and shield only, while athena call is a godsend, the shield is so op it can pull it off without it, I'm not really sure what I'd roll on the rail yet as I haven't got around to it yet
rail might be okay without athena
wind vale
im also thinking what im gonna do there - probably poison and explosive fire
fallen quarry
I still think people running dion/zues/ares are crazy...
wind vale
dio gives lots of defense
fallen quarry
I've scummed running it harder than I have the other gods, and it falls so short...
wind vale
zeus i agree is crazy and ares just for other weapons but great
dio poison just scales better with poms than everything else
fallen quarry
er... dio scaling?
his scaling has been the biggest battle I've come against....
I may as well consider if a victory if I can get to elysium boss..
since I'll time out the instant I step foot in the room
wind vale
everything else has diminishing returns poison is +1 per stack per half second for each pom after the first
fallen quarry
that's not really viable...
wind vale
its just different
wind vale
you have to figure out how else to give it damage compared to the usual +attack or +special damage modifiers
hollow totem
something very satisfying about just spewing sheilds out of your mouth
fallen quarry
I guess dropping tight deadling, running for the hills, and just waiting out everything to die to poision is an option... but that sounds no fun at all to me.
wind vale
i dont generally use deadline but its faster damage than most things
fallen quarry
I can't think of anything that does less damage...
wind vale
few things that do more and they are often dangerous
fallen quarry
what do you find it does more damage than?
wind vale
shield in every way
fallen quarry
huh?
wind vale
unless you do chaos poison
you can get any boon for shield and can not do as much damage basically
fallen quarry
we're talking about running posion on an attack over anything else, right?
fallen quarry
what?
wind vale
artemis, aphrodite, poseidon(except with zeus duo), athena
the gun fire itself does very low damage so i want static damage boons
fallen quarry
what pact mods are you running?
wind vale
depends for which heat ofc - this was for 32?
wind vale
then basically 1/4 heal, 1 less choice, full darkness, no timer
everything else maxed iirc
fallen quarry
I've put more effort trying to get zues/dion/ares to work under these condtions, and have fallen way short
the rest have done me well.
lament coral
you could just take middle management and put on mirror limiter
fallen quarry
as far as damage output goes, I don't see how the clock isn't a good test for it
lament coral
feels a lot better than having to die in Elysium to timer because you didn't get enough encounter skips
fallen quarry
I'm not saying that the gods do nothing, they just really don't have the damage output comparable to the others.
wind vale
dio only works on the rail
fallow niche
Not taking Middle Management for a 32 heat run seems suspect
fallen quarry
I found middle management more of a hurdle than other pact options
fallow niche
Jury Summons is going to eat up more of your timer than Middle Management by a long shot
So many more enemies, each with 30% more health, every single room is a lot more time wasted
You're going to feel that on Elysium
fallen quarry
I've done multiple clears on this
middle management has thrown me off more than having more mobs
versed flame
Hey, so... Finished a 1 heat run with gun... Got a little more legendaries than I'm used to.
https://imgur.com/a/LOtQyJj
fallow niche
Well then good for you, but I'll take the barge anyday
versed flame
Just wanted to share with others who knew what it meant :D
fallow niche
Nice
fallen quarry
most of us were there at one point tib :)
fallow niche
Athena legendary is always nice if it ever ends up in my lap
versed flame
Oh yeah. It is a delicious boon for sure. Ignore damage every 20th sec.
fallow niche
It seems to absorb a lot more than one hit though from my experience
versed flame
But... I will say that Poseidon legendary never rally feels impactful against bosses due to the whole... No-pushiness.
fallow niche
Its only relevant on Poseidon/Zeus duo
Then you will see two bolts
If you ever get both legendaries (never done that before actually) it should be 4 I imagine
versed flame
Oh damn, never thought of it like that.
The duo with Dionysus/Zeus Scincilating feast (Or however you spell that) is... So strong, in my opinion.
fallow niche
The fog one?
wind vale
yea its nice
fallow niche
Fog is good even if it requires build-around
wind vale
i only play it with hera bow but then its really great
fallow niche
That actually seems spicy
versed flame
Yeah, but because the damage procs every... I want to say .5 sec, it is really a shredder of enemies.
Huh, never thought of it specifically with Hera bow... I usually go the bow that auto aims the special.
deep vault
Ayyy ya boy finally finished his first 8 heat run
With all three death defiances and full HP in the end too
wind vale
gz
versed flame
Congratz.
deep vault
but yeah, Hera bow + fog and the zeus duo really hurts as well
viral fossil
8:41 and in elysium, is this guud?
deep vault
das pretty faast
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/668926876705619968/unknown.png did anyone say dio zeus duo?
novel python
Is the second wind worth picking for the dodge chance?
I mean 38% dodge whenever I'm casting the aid
deep vault
100% honest I never consciously noticed that I dodged
wind vale
at range im not so sure but its amazing close
solid cairn
fierce iron
Chance to dodge and move speed ain't too bad imo
I never notice Relative Speed go off though with 2 dashes
fierce iron
Sounds like a good choice to me then
wind vale
sure its probably the best there
fallow niche
Yeah those are all meh
wind vale
i find it a lot better for calls that i use with individual charges
fierce iron
Very true
viral fossil
fug, Thanatos ruined my run 
wind vale
how can you not be happy to see him? 😄
viral fossil
13:25 styx
stray frigate
Tomatos help always end for me like losin so much hp
viral fossil
14:59 hades fight
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/668929878908731402/unknown.png? 8 heat hera
Almost died because my build was pretty crappy
viral fossil
https://imgur.com/a/o7GSAW5
had pretty good run
@novel python nice total of clears ❤️
I have 49 total escapes and 63% win rate 
novel python
Eyyy hi xd
viral fossil
7:56 elysium
novel python
Attack or Dash athena? Chaos shield, Tartarus
stray frigate
dash
hollow sorrel
Athena dash is the most OP boon in the game
fallen quarry
since they've taken the extra invuln out of the dash, dash has a lot of utility option for best in slot
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/668937212045557772/unknown.png?width=865&height=484 exposed or attack here?
fallen quarry
instead of just athena hands down
hollow sorrel
i would do exposed so the dash can help proc priviledged
stray frigate
same
novel python
As in, I want both but not sure which is better fml
hollow sorrel
priviledge > almost everything else
fierce iron
For sure
fallen quarry
idk, it's an option, if you don't like using it, is there something else you're using/want that needs the blood?
hollow sorrel
wait until tomorrow, in case it gets nerfed?
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/668938435934814222/unknown.png?width=862&height=484 I got the combo
I got the goddamn combo
fierce iron
Ayyy
stray frigate
i do not like it
novel python
Now i only need ares increased doom duration and im set
stray frigate
iirc this duo doesnt work good enough with dired missfortune
stray frigate
not bad
toxic tusk
People tend to dislike Rail Zagreus aspect. I quite enjoy it
fallow niche
athena / ares duo boon is very good
stray frigate
i think it still better
toxic tusk
Yes. Eris aspect is still the best rail aspect (for me at least)
fallow niche
Hestia aspect is the more powerful one but honestly you should just stick with what you find fun and comfortable with
Personal skill is more meaningful than tierlist stuff
toxic tusk
True story
fallow niche
I learned that lesson loooong ago when I played Dota
Rando who's only played Broodmother over 2k+ games with 75% winrate despite the hero itself being total trash and sub-30% winrate overall should stick to what wins for him
toxic tusk
Completly agree with you
The same with the spear. Lots of people don't like, I in fact like to play with it
But just can't play with Achiles aspect xD
fallow niche
Spear is lowkey very, very good. People just aren't building it right
fierce iron
Achilles aspect is hard for me too
fallow niche
Achilles is awkward for me as well
I use Zag since it allows me to be flexible with the boons I get
stray frigate
Achiles is just used to cast
stray frigate
u use Q for mobility and positioning
fallow niche
Seems fun
stray frigate
and shot ur Cast
toxic tusk
With Hunting Blades, it must be awesome
fierce iron
It makes sense that it'd turn your cast into a nuke, but I'd have to upgrade it more
stray frigate
@fallow niche fun? +150% Hunting blades is AWESOME
hollow sorrel
My issue with the Eris rail is that it doesn't feel like a ranged weapon. In order to maximize dps, I'm supposed to cast special on the monsters, and be where the special is going to land, which means I'm next to the monsters. If I instead waste specials by aiming them far away from the monsters, then I'm losing out on that dps
fallow niche
I think you're getting your head stuck about it, its not "losing" dps if you hit yourself with your special rather than the enemies if you're gaining DPS by doing so. Also, if you do want to maximize DPS then you do have to do risk reward by getting in close
Also its great with the shotgun hammer upgrade
Boomstick time
hollow sorrel
I guess the issue is I'm not really sure how to do the math to estimate how much better Eris rail (where I aim the special on me) is than the Zag rail (where I am the special on the monsters)
fallow niche
Zag rail is inferior
Easily
The extra bullets aren't really meaningful
Especially if you tend to reload while re-positioning or dashing
fierce iron
As suicidal as this sounds, you might just want to lob out the special into the fray and follow it
fallow niche
That's what I do
fierce iron
Usually what I end up doing too
last Eris Rail run I had, I ended up with rockets and triple special from the hammer which got really nutty
I almost like that a bit more because if you're close-range the bonus gets activated immediately
fallow niche
Rail has the most good hammer upgrades I feel
I never feel bummed after not getting the specific thing I want since the rest are at least decent too
fierce iron
Yeah, the only upgrade I'm not sure of is Infinity Chamber with Hestia aspect. Would you just lose the reload bonus damage completely?
Is that even possible to get?
grand idol
If I could choose the bosses that have alternate fights
I would never choose the Hydra
I'm a broken record at this point, but I loathe the hydra fight.
hollow sorrel
The game be like that sometimes. One of the reason I like the Nemesis blade more than the Poseidon blade, is because I feel like I'd be disappointed far more often with my hammer upgrades if I were using the Poseidon blade
grand idol
Also, Zagreus is now faster than Hermes.
wind vale
with poseidon i dont think you rely on hammer upgrades at all
you may want the supernova but its not really necessary
its cast focused after all
hollow sorrel
I think supernova is the only sword upgrade I think is hot garbage
fierce iron
Makes it easier to dislodge but that's probably about it
hollow sorrel
My main interrupt skill, no longer interrupting, and harder to hit with?
grand idol
Supernova is good. +20% damage and bigger range?
hollow sorrel
I thought supernova was the double nova, but no knockback?
oh wait, it's double nova I hate
fierce iron
Yeah that's Double Nova, lol
toxic tusk
Ohh the good old days, that if you had Double Nova + Supernova and Divine Flourish you just needed to spam special
hollow sorrel
super nova makes it easy to clip the small chariots; that one's cool
wind vale
i still dont get why people want to fight the small ones - they kill themselves
severe sandal
i've given up on fighting small chariots and now only run them in to walls
hollow sorrel
if they have blue hearts, you might want to hit them with anything beforehand
fierce iron
I think Double Nova is pretty alright, but only if you have decent boons on your special
grand idol
I gotta
severe sandal
sometimes the dashes that take effect where you start can be good tho (for small chariots)
grand idol
Record how fast my Zag is
stray frigate
rip 2 DD for tight dealine in elisium
wind vale
he always gets too slippery at high speeds
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/668948101108596757/unknown.png?width=864&height=485 the duo really trivialized the fight
I've also gotten the artemis athena one
novel python
Is there anything else to do with diamonds after you've gotten sisy's favor?
Apart from getting songs?
hollow sorrel
turn them into more titan blood
novel python
I was just wondering if I still need to hoard them
Or I could just use them
Like if there's something important
hollow sorrel
Game is still in early access. Who knows if a future patch will release something that needs diamonds
grand idol
I got
Athena's dash
It's a won run boys and girls
I'm faster than Theseus on his cart
solid cairn
Why do people either say spear is amazing or terrible
hollow sorrel
Spear damage can be a bit sad if you don't get good upgrades
wind vale
for example spin is huge damage but doesnt work at high speeds/difficulty
grand idol
Because, the Spear is either super fun, destroy everything
Or a limp noodle in your hands
solid cairn
Spear is high heat viable because high heat is so much rng anyway
novel python
Yo spear got me my first win
ocean mango
Same
novel python
Well what won me the game was artemis cast but stil :pepega:
ocean mango
Spear 4 lyf
ocean mango
Anyone else have the following strategy with adamant rail?: Never do normal attacks, always do dash attacks (because that seems to have a lot higher rate of fire). Whenever reloading, always shoot special
hollow sorrel
It's not reliable though. But to be fair, a lot of people don't care about reliability. For example, picking Ares cast, with the high hopes to get all the other Ares/Athena stuff, so that you have murder blades, isn't reliable, but people want to do it anyway because it's exciting when it works
wind vale
its ares artemis
solid cairn
Achilles spear will probably be my high heat weapon of choice
hollow sorrel
that then, still not reliable
novel python
I haven't even tried Achilles spear
Guys, I've got 17 dias
What should I spend them on
wind vale
quite reliable - you start with one thing youll focus your run on, in this case the cast - its nor any worse than fishing for hammers
novel python
hollow sorrel
But Ares cast is garbage while you're building the pieces
novel python
^
ocean mango
I've never gotten a cast run to work for me
novel python
Especially without Duo
grand idol
I'm about to break a land speed record.
ocean mango
Hermesed out the ass?
wind vale
achilles spear makes ares cast hit so hard that its good enough for tartarus and into asphodel
fallow niche
Definitely with LookingForTraps here on the hydra fight sucking
grand idol
Dude. I've got: Zag Sword, Hermes +30%, Hermes +100% after dash, Hermes +45% after call.
wind vale
and then you hopefully have it
hollow sorrel
You aren't doing the weird slippery skidding thing?
fallow niche
Also, there are some spikes in Tartarus
grand idol
He's so fast, the game doesn't know how to handle it.
wind vale
but do you not use the plume?
grand idol
I had the plume, traded it for Tooth because I wanted to win the run lol
fallow niche
tooth
hollow sorrel
It's fun until ex hydra, where it's like "WHy am I alWayS skidding All ovER the LavA>>??"
solid cairn
You using zag sword
solid cairn
You using zag sword
fallow niche
Using Zag sword in general is reckless 
grand idol
Well, yeah. It's trash unless you wanna go fast
wind vale
i got nothing better to use if i want a special spam build
fallow niche
Even for speedrunning its not good 😭
grand idol
Nah, it aint for speed running brother. It's for Speed and Running.
hollow sorrel
I thought the zag sword made you go slower because it took longer to kill things?
fallow niche
@wind vale Poseidon, go for artemis dislodge and hermes cast and special speed, feelsgoodman
grand idol
If you wanna speedrun, you need: Zeus Aspect + Daedalus - Explosion on return
grand idol
Zeus Aspect + explosion on return gives the fastest spammable damage in the game.
wind vale
i mean when im going for special spam, as in not using anything but dash and special
hollow sorrel
You know, I really really wanted the Zeus shield to be good
grand idol
Zeus shield is great. I beat the game in 17 minutes with it.
fallow niche
That's not really that impressive you know
stray frigate
what heat
fallow niche
You don't, that's how @lament coral
hollow sorrel
LOL
grand idol
I believe it was 8/9 heat. And 17 is impressive! I know WR is like, 9 minutes igt
fallow niche
WR is sub-8
solid cairn
I’m gonna wait until next update to see if chaos shield is nerfed
fallow niche
And sub-15 is fast if you don't use hydra skip imo
lament coral
if they nerf Chaos and don't buff other aspects...game's done
ocean mango
What's the heat record?
grand idol
Either way, fast for me. I'm not a speed runner. No need to doo doo on my fun.
solid cairn
Before putting stuff into it
fallow niche
Zeus aspect seems like a really cool developer idea that just is bad in practice and is only good for using in the exact way the developers don't want it to be used - abusing a mechanic like explosive return
I'm not, you're proclaiming you're going super speedy when you're not lol @grand idol
lament coral
Zeus needs homing and faster disc movement, that's all
grand idol
Compare it to the casual runs of others, my dude.
wind vale
or control over the disc, as suggested some times
ocean mango
Is zeus aspect sort of like a blade rift that stays out?
fierce iron
Faster disc movement would be all I'd want tbh
fallow niche
Yeah a super fast Zeus disk would be sick
lament coral
just faster disc would do nothing but fly past enemies
ocean mango
Beyblade!
hollow sorrel
I'm not even sure how to fix it. The best thing I couldn't think of is hitting the shield button once, after it's thrown, would stop it in place
ocean mango
I kinda like that idea
fierce iron
Or like give it an attached line between you and the disc that also does damage maybe? Idk, might be weird
hollow sorrel
because throwing it half way across the screen, so that it slowly stops on its own, so I can dance around it, isn't very effective
fallow niche
It already stops in place in a predictable place
lament coral
it'd still be bad, how are you guys not seeing that a stationary damage source blows when everyone has armor and moves at the speed of sound?
wind vale
thats basically it - maybe increase its hit rate
lament coral
it'd only be good against Hydra
solid cairn
Laughs in rail special @lament coral
fallow niche
Increasing hit rate would just make people cheese it by using it in ultra close quarters and never actually throwing it out there
rugged estuary
Huh. So I just found something interesting.
lament coral
@solid cairn that's nice, sweetie, but we're talking about Zeus shield
wind vale
but special needs to be animation locked for the zeus aspect, not the other 2 since they have to wait for it to return anyways
solid cairn
Zeus shield is kind of missing the point of what makes shield good
fierce iron
kek
ocean mango
Anyone else annoyed that the Daed rocket special upgrade for the rail makes the special slower?
rugged estuary
I have Aphrodite cast and Hermes castspeed + hold button, and Artemis Support Fire. Support fire says it triggers on hit, but for casts, it triggers on cast.
So now I can stand in front of a wall and hold down right mouse button to shoot infinite homing support fire arrows because the cast stones drop right in front of me and immediately get collected again.
fallow niche
The daed rocket for rail makes me feel like I'm an insurgent firing a really inaccurate and old RPG
lmao
hollow sorrel
or the main issue is that the Zeus shield is not anywhere near as wonky as having doom on a chaos shield, and getting to just doom lots of trash at the same time
fallow niche
@rugged estuary Thats for all casts
If you have artemis support fire and hermes cast speed its really funny
The real fix for Zeus shield btw is just make it much faster
Let it bounce off walls
Make it fun
solid cairn
Zeus shield Dio special is dumb fun
fallow niche
If it deals too much damage then just nerf the damage itself
Right now its slow, bad, and not really that fun
Shotgunning people with the Chaos shield is much funner when it comes to shields
lament coral
you never played with Chaos shield, huh?
solid cairn
These words are not compatible
grand idol
I died. Was fun and speedy though.
solid cairn
I have played with chaos shield
And I don’t feel like maxing it because I don’t enjoy it much
fallow niche
Different strokes for different folks
The spice of life
Enjoy what gives you that dopamine my friend
Even if its Zeus shield
solid cairn
Unfortunately chaos shield is almost necessary at higher heat
solid cairn
Oh yeah rail is a thing
mild crag
spear is actually decent there too
fallow niche
👀
lament coral
how?
solid cairn
I love Achilles spear dude
fallow niche
I haven't seen a spear 32 clear yet
fallow niche
I do think spear is very good, but it lacks the defensive qualities of the other two weps
wind vale
i did it but it wasnt really spear it was achilles hunting blades
mild crag
it counts
fallow niche
Ah
mild crag
lol
lament coral
"spear"
lament coral
even Poseidon sword is more weapony than Achilles
copper forum
The bow is my favourite
solid cairn
I don’t enjoy Poseidon
fallow niche
I enjoy Poseidon
hollow sorrel
I almost wish that some weapons, like the bow, could have some sort of scaling modifier depending on heat, so that it's decent at any heat
solid cairn
I don’t like cast builds like at all
fallow niche
Poseidon sword cast builds are 💦
wind vale
poseidon is better late but achilles gives way more early
mild crag
the damage bonus is op
lament coral
surely you're not loving Achilles for its attack buff
mild crag
since the damage bonus applies to casts
fallow niche
Throwing casts, jump in and special, jump out, and cast
solid cairn
I used Hera bow a few times and I don’t know if I ever will again
fallow niche
rinse and repeat
wind vale
it lets you teleport and you can use the buff for casts
mild crag
hunting blades 
lament coral
Chaos shield lets me "teleport", too
solid cairn
Well Zagreus does nothing pretty much
wind vale
yea but it definitely falls off compared to poseidon when you get more casts
solid cairn
Yes but I don’t like chaos shield
lament coral
and deal boatloads of damage without having to stop and use casts
fallow niche
Regular cast builds are more impressive on the Poseidon sword than Hunting Blades. Hunting Blades is impressive on any weapon tbh
wind vale
since you have to manually buff them 2 at a time
fallow niche
The fact that the Poseidon sword can dig out your casts is insane
I abuse that a lot
lament coral
btw, you guys noticed that casting knocks you back?
lament coral
only found out after it pushed me into lava during the Hydra fight
solid cairn
Ok now that I remembered my Poseidon runs I changed my mind
lament coral
I'm adding that to my list of lava issues: increased movement speed sliding, cast self-pushback
solid cairn
Maybe I’d enjoy chaos shield at level 5 but I don’t have that much blood with me
onyx kestrel
is the movespeed after dashing boon good? it feels really uncomfortable for me
lament coral
nah, dash is better
grand idol
Blast Initial D in the background and go to town.
lament coral
Hermes has good choices and whatever
onyx kestrel
guess i just have to get used to it then lol, i keep overshooting cover due to muscle memory lol
lament coral
the good ones are attack/special/cast speed, dashes, and dodge
the rest is whatever, though raw movement speed is best avoided
at least if it's offered before/during Asphodel
hollow sorrel
Maxed Jury and maxed Cali, with Tight Deadline sounds like a lot of gotta go fast
fallen quarry
damage control is kind of what I fear the most on bow
wind vale
except chiron
fallen quarry
I hate chiron/hera bow
lament coral
whaaaat
grand idol
Heightened security is a filthy thing and I hate it.
lament coral
you have to dash with any weapon!
solid cairn
Ok I take back what I said earlier I don’t dislike cast builds just hera bow
lament coral
that's how the game works
fallow niche
Uh you know you can dash and special and dash and special etc etc
fallen quarry
still feels too long to me
fallow niche
I've never had mobility issues with Chiron
hollow sorrel
but like, you hit them once, and your next three specials auto-aim, even if the monsters are bouncing around the screen at high speed
lament coral
oh, that reminds me
fallow niche
Its an absurd amount of damage
lament coral
how come there's no keepsake that just gives you flat attack/special/cast speed?
fallow niche
Why would they?
fallen quarry
and in the case I slightly mistime and and get stuck in special animation rip
solid cairn
Keepsakes are too linear
hollow sorrel
the butterfly is their answer to that, I guess
lament coral
well, we have Orpheus' 30% damage to distant enemies
solid cairn
It’s god keepsake 1 god keepsake 2 coin purse spearpoint
lament coral
and butterfly is damage
lime stirrup
Finally got to the Hades fight and he blew my ass up.
Anybody got tips for dealing with him?
fallow niche
Get some defensive boons
grand idol
Run
lament coral
Athena dash, get at least 1 extra dash from Hermes
fallow niche
And the Spearpoint keepsake
hollow sorrel
how many people are really going to do the last biome, at high heat, with anything besides the spearpoint?
fallow niche
And man mode em
solid cairn
Hades isn’t even the hardest part of most of my runs
fallow niche
I mean I use different relics depending on what I have going
lament coral
watch out for circles, they can overlap for massive damage
fallow niche
Skull Earring is great
solid cairn
Yeah the circles get me
lime stirrup
yeah i had the athena and hermes and three death defiance ready at full health
normal sleet
Elysium still feels like there's a biome missing between it and Asphodel
glad mica
Does anybody know what time the update is😳
lime stirrup
i was so salty
fallow niche
But if I feel like I'm not tanky enough I get Spearpoint
lime stirrup
i felt it was the run
fallow niche
Or ran into every vase 😂
solid cairn
I can usually just tank hades on lower heats
lime stirrup
i did it was just the first time so idk Hades attacks
wind vale
i dont use spearpoint if i got holy shield
which is possible since athena is really good
lament coral
pro tip: holy shield is not a replacement for the speartip
lament coral
shield doesn't last as long as speartip
fallow niche
Doesn't really matter all that much
wind vale
doesnt matter
fallow niche
The moment you get hit by some ticking damage you know and can back off
lament coral
it does matter if you just wanna stand on top of Hades as Zeus' call is roasting his ass
fallow niche
And consecutive hits also miss
hollow sorrel
just do that while he's doing the lazer beams
solid cairn
Gotta love that piece of cover that the lasers just go through
hollow sorrel
and he doesn't move too, so that's the perfect time to use your call
fallow niche
I just spam Zeus's call whenever its up
Dodge Hades attacks
They're so telegraphed
lime stirrup
Zeus' call? hmm ima try that next run
solid cairn
Also shield makes hades a complete joke
wind vale
i dont like zeus call at all
solid cairn
But it makes the whole game a joke
lime stirrup
i usually use Poseidon
fallow niche
Zeus's call isn't something I ever prioritize but its decent pickup late
At least its not Poseidons or Ares without additional synergy
And the bonus damage additional boon for it is good
wind vale
poseidon and ares are good since they give invulnerability - so as long as i do anything that has delayed damage its good
wind vale
what im saying is i try to avoid zeus anyways
fallow niche
Zeus is great on some builds
lime stirrup
Zeus is lower priority than most imo
fallow niche
Outside of his specific builds I never want his boons tho I'll say that
wind vale
the only boon i really want from him sometimes is billowing strength
fallow niche
They lack any good synergy
Like what the hell are some of his duos
The revenge thing for Ares is poo
And don't get me started on the Artemis one
lime stirrup
i prefer Ares and all the ones that do status effects with synergy
also Artemis' crit
wind vale
athena is always good in some way
fallow niche
Yup
lime stirrup
Athena is godlike
lime stirrup
hehehe
time to start a run and hopefully get a heroic build and actually beat Hades this time
grand idol
I wish that the Charon's Shop between zones had a guaranteed death's defiance.
Might make things too easy though. But lordy, I'm struggling on this high heat.
wind vale
something definitely needs to be done with dd's
grand idol
Like a fat man in summer.
wind vale
patrocles seems too important to completely refill them if you need it to be completely rng
fallen quarry
I think patrocles ran away from me, haven't seen him in ages
grand idol
Gawd dang it. I just want to clear 32 heat.
fallen quarry
which weapon?
grand idol
ANY. Been using the shield though. I take so much damage.
fallen quarry
are you using a controller or mkb?
grand idol
Mouse and Keyboard. My switch controller hates my pc for some reason.
fallen quarry
ah, if you're damage is coming from traps, practice I guess, if it's from mobs, you're likely not targetting them to either be killing them or getting a bounce back at the right times, as the shield has the safest route when it comes to mobbing of the weapons, and if it's on bosses, it's probably spacing for how far away to be, and when to special
at least, using chaos shield.
something that can be annoying, hitting an invuln target and getting your character bounced back into a hazard lol
severe sandal
i actually got it immediately after offering third nectar but later reset the run like an idiot
fallow niche
@rugged estuary It gives you another Death Defiance. Not refilling a used one - you can get a 4th total.
Or more if you're a total lucksack with Chaos
It requires at least one other Chaos boon iirc
rugged estuary
thats awesome.
Have yet to find that
The wiki says chaos can also give you more than +1 permanent cast, up to +3 with one boon - is that true or was that nerfed?
severe sandal
i've only seen +1
fierce iron
I've gotten 2 +1 cast Chaos boons in a run, so
fierce iron
Yeah
rugged estuary
Alright, so wiki is just outdated. Figured.
fallow niche
@rugged estuary That might have been before it got reworked with Death Defiances in general
It was a recent change
Before athena and the shop could get you as many as you wanted too
lmao
Go into Hades with tons of extra lives
fierce iron
Wew
fallen quarry
and with aphro more hearts, you could also have like 600-900hp on top of the 5+ death defies, lol
funny times
zinc oasis
Just cleared 5 runs in a row, (1/2/3/4/5 heat) with the Shotgun
This weapon is bae
It's funny how overpowered it get when you max it's ammo
fallen quarry
ekkk I hate middle management, lol
fallow niche
the barge gives me cancer
fallow niche
Depends on the build I usually find them easier
Yeah the wave timing is weird
It doesn't follow it where it should
zinc oasis
Dusa and the thwomp are so frustrating
fallen quarry
only got one more day to get my bow to 32 heat D:
fallow niche
Godspeed
fallen quarry
more like tonight, as I'll be working
fallen quarry
fingers crossed, lol
unkempt ridge
Wait, why does he only have one more day?
I mean patch day yes, but how does that limit his time
mild crag
New patch deletes bow clearly
Bow is deleted but arrow remains in the game and is now a stabbing weapon you heard it first
patent girder
Good I hate the bow
fallen quarry
lol, new patch will be new goals!
hollow sorrel
Ew, I just tried a 15 hellmode zeus shield, and it took 42 minutes to win
karmic ginkgo
When is the new patch
solid cairn
hold on a minute
if you stand near hades his lasers won't hurt you
like right next to him
it could have been spearpoint actually
unkempt pagoda
no you're right
nocturne dirge
Yeah the safest place to stand when he does that attack is right under him because the hitbox on the one piece of cover is wonky
mild crag
yeah but patch when fr
full flame
Achievements please - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/612382629505007618/668985266597527552/unknown.png
slender kettle
I'm still trying to work out how to get Meg's companion.
hollow sorrel
I think it might involve fighting all three sisters at once
pastel jolt
you just need to keep fighting her and eventually the rng gods will smile upon you and give you the conversation you need
no it doesn't
it really, really doesn't
hollow sorrel
it's really that rng then?
pastel jolt
yes
hollow sorrel
I don't understand how that was a good game design decision
slender kettle
What're the chances of it? I haven't had anything like that yet...
hollow sorrel
You might have to fight the first boss like 10-30 times before it triggers
whenever the games feels like gracing you with its presents
fallen quarry
ya know... -40% movement chaos boon going into 32 hydra fight without extra dashes might have been a slight mistake.
or any damage mitigation
teal laurel
I wannt to make a Movement speed build
fallen quarry
I mean... I've had both the run speed and run speed from dash from hermes... I don't really see an objective point to it besides can.
isn't from chaos
most of the ground you cover in this game is dashing..
be it with or without movespeed
outside of the funny sound of zags feet moving super fast, it's a bit silly
finite thunder
Those little flame wheels are so incredibly annoying
I’ve lost two DDs since getting into Elysium
fallen quarry
I still hate them those most vyvi, haha
I'm probably nearing 150 hours of play time
supple haven
Those damn carriots and shield guys in elysium is the worst
I swear its the hardest biome by far
rose geode
The chariots aren't so bad once I figured out how to make them explode on their own.
The shields I absolutely hate and constantly struggle with in every run. Especially when I am using heats
supple haven
Chariots themselves is not so bad
fallen quarry
overtime flamewheels spawned all over the map are not so friendly :(
fierce iron
Chariots are just really bad if you have no way to slow them down or outrun them
otherwise they'll be slapping your HP repeatedly
frozen panther
flurry attack with aphro artemis duo
lots of crits
zag aspect is not that bad after all
xD
Still can barely clear the game with the sword
just cant not play with it
rose geode
wow, that is an amazing clear time 
frozen panther
thanks but there's a lot faster clear times out there tbh xD
rose geode
and honestly, I only had success on sword when I used Poseidon aspect + casts
lament panther
ya most of my clear times are in 30's cause i take my sweet time
frozen panther
I used to take my time
but then i took tight deadline
on 7 mins
and yeah i just run
xD
i really dont wanna lose 5 hp a sec when that ends
kindred needle
Any basic noob tips for Adamant Rail? I can't seem to finish a run with it, and it always feels like I'm using a wimpy Heart Seeker that decides to stop working when it gets tired
rich ingot
I have found some pretty dope combos with the rail’s special+3x hammer mod. Just attach any special multiplier and watch things blow up. It was the first weapon I cleared with actually
kindred needle
Guess I just haven't been able to work out any cool dope combos yet! I'll keep at it.
rose geode
i personally like starting with the zeus boon of electric damage on hit attack. essentially doubles your AA damage + aoe
supple haven
Just shoot them until they die
rich ingot
True too, rail+infinite ammo mod+zues or/and Artemis seeker boons
supple haven
Spam specials inbetween attacks
manic dune
you can get used to the rythm of the rail
and also you can use special while reloading
rose geode
now, if you can get the x3 special spam + rocket launcher, its an easy run
manic dune
or dash
fierce iron
Yeah that'll do it, lol
manic dune
what's the base damage of the launcher
severe stratus
oh yeah i got a question
can you get multiple legendaries in one run? (not counting hermes and weapon aspects)
(i/e getting both ares's legendary and artemis's legendary)
frozen panther
yes
I did it a lot
with other gods too
just get the prerequisite boons and you'll be gucci
mild crag
meet pre-reqs and be lucky too