Chiron's solid though
#h1-builds-and-combat
lament coral
compact wyvern
Ya
fallow niche
My 14 min run was with Spear
lament coral
I'd like Hera, too, if it reduced cast ammo's return time
fallow niche
Some of my best runs are with spear in general
You need one of its hammer upgrades though
compact wyvern
So?
fallow niche
They're necessary
compact wyvern
That just means your good at spear
fallow niche
Or that you haven't really given it a good run?
fallow niche
Like I've had runs that make it feel like a Chaos shield
lament coral
Chaos shield, Chiron bow, and Eris rail feel good, I'd even say natural
but sword and spear, yuck
I either don't have reach or damage
fallow niche
My favorite is Poseidon sword but its a bit more reliant on RNG
fallow niche
Pure Artemis Poseidon Sword is nuts yeah
My fastest run before this was with that
Instantly kills bosses
Hades went down in under 40 secs
lament coral
truly? What else do you take besides Arty cast?
compact wyvern
Ya
fallow niche
Yeah they're bonkers
lament coral
ok, so you start with Artemis keepsake and don't take it off until Elysium?
fallow niche
Well its not that luck reliant
But you want Artemis keepsake and hope to get her cast immediately
Then use Fated Authority to get her as much as possible
Avoid hammer upgrades like the plague since they're useless
compact wyvern
Yes kinda vaugely
fallow niche
No I mean for this degenerate build in general
He's probably talking about the true insane build
fallow niche
When its fully built it is ridiculous yeah
lament coral
ok, so you don't need statuses then
compact wyvern
Full heroic level 10 thingamajigs
fallow niche
Poms are very very good for it too
compact wyvern
Ya it's pure dmg
fallow niche
It scales incredibly well with poms
compact wyvern
Hey guys
fallow niche
I once had a run with it with only artemis cast and exit wounds and poms as my only boons
Still was a good run
lament coral
guess I'll have to grind those bloods then
compact wyvern
Lol
lament coral
stray frigate
it was good winstreak(
fallow niche
Okay I just found a really bizarre bug
Where do I even report on stuff like this?
I tried rerolling a door with Aphrodite on it and it stayed the same, was like "what?" and rerolled again. Still Aphrodite.
turbid needle
how do u guys get all the way down to 12 min clear?
I can only manage like 18-19 min
stray frigate
@fallow niche 
languid fjord
Hey, can anyone tell me how Artemis's Hunter Dash work please?
I tried dashing multiple times through enemies with it and it did absolutely nothing unfortunately 😕
turbid needle
oh nice, I improved my record to 14:40
uneven flame
Attack while dashing, should be a slightly different variant of the attack. Like the spear is a cone slash type thing
fallow niche
Dash attack is when you attack immediately following a dash
languid fjord
Oh so it boosts the attack after the dash. Thanks a lot! 🙂
uneven flame
After/during, yeah
I could only get the spear dash attack to work by hitting attack while in the dash animation to do the cone aoe slicey thing
ocean arch
Worth noting that for the bow it's a faster charge shot that deals slightly less damage
obsidian abyss
i never understood something. do normal +attack damage boons (such as poseidon attack and chaos +attack) also affect the damage of dash attack? also, does chao's +dashattack damage boon stack multiplicatively with normal attack damage boons? what about artemis's?
stray frigate
@obsidian abyss yes
your attack bonus stacks same as dash attacks
and when u do DA u get bonuses from A and from DA
lament coral
for example, if your attack does 10 and you have +50% attack from Chaos, you'd be dealing 10+5=15
if you also have +50% dash damage from Chaos, you'd be dealing 10+5+5=20 on dash
obsidian abyss
okay, thanks. it's additive. most thing are, but a couple things aren't like bonus damage to weak foes, or priviledge status
lament coral
I don't get how Artemis' dash works
it says +100% dash damage, but default dash does no damage
lament coral
really?
obsidian abyss
ask a better player than me lmao
terse tiger
Yep, artemis dash boon buffs dash attacks
lament coral
oh, it is Dash Attack
stray frigate
yes
lament coral
I just kept reading it as dash all the time
stray frigate
it's just like usual chaos dash attack boon
lament coral
right, right
rugged estuary
A few questions about multipliers of different sources stacking:
If I have 100 base attack damage, a random attack boon that grants +70% attack damage, a chaos boon that grants +60% attack damage, and the ares boon that grants +10% attack, cast and special damage, what is my total damage?
Likewise, if I have 15% less damage taken from Aphrodite, 10% less damage taken from Athena, and 18% less damage taken while below 40% life from Dionysus active, and take a hit of 100, how much life do I lose?
And finally, if I have 40% backstab damage, the enemy is exposed and takes 60% extra damage from backstabs, and the enemy has 2 statuses on them and thus takes 50% extra damage from the mirror effect, and I hit them in the back with an attack of base damage 100, how much damage do I deal?
Oh and, how does crit interact with this? Pretty certain crit is multiplicative to the final value, but might as well ask about that as well.
obsidian abyss
question 1. idk because i don't know if ares boon is multiplicative 2. probably 63 because i think damage reduction is multiplicative 3. they take 300 because exposed and backstab are additive (i think) and priviledged status is multiplicative
final fox
all damage increase percentages stack additively
including backstab, privileged status, and boiling blood
so for scenario one, you'd deal 100+70+60+10 damage.
I'm not sure how damage reduction percentages stack.
scenario 3 is just like scenario 1, 100 + 40 + 60 + 50
crit is IIRC the only multiplicative damage increase
stable fossil
my god im 30 minutes into a 5 heat rail run and am just now beating theseus
fallow niche
christ that sounds awful
what went wrong?
shafted by boons?
I've had that happen before tho it didn't take that long
stable fossil
I have the no choice heat active trying to finish the prophecy
it keeps nulling the boons I want so my build is crap
why do I feel like it removes the highest rarity boon/the one I really fing want rather than a random one?
I couldve had Athena Dash 1-1 but it nulled it and left me with special or call
ebon thistle
probably just really bad luck
stable fossil
OH
really?
I got the Athena boon that restores a DD TWICE
Guess which boon got nulled both times
I'll give you a hint it wasn't one of the four other options I got
native ether
30 minutes to reach Theseus isn't entirely uncommon. I've had runs that take forever with the rail because I didn't get boons that actually worked or hammers I needed.
native ether
Everyone says the rail has really high damage potential, and it does, but only with the proper upgrades. Base Rail is incredibly underwhelming.
stable fossil
Daedalus was a mortal
I should've put that in the feedback
If I had known earlier I would have
38 minutes in finally at hades
175/275 hp 2 dd's left wish me luck I have dionysus call
lament coral
are the hammers referred to as god boons somewhere?
native ether
No Choice I believe says you have less choices on boons and upgrades
So it doesn't specifically say Hammers but I feel it's reasonably implied.
native ether
I thought it did, don't know for sure though I
stable fossil
also we beat the first stage 46 hp and 2 dd's left
native ether
I'm just familiar with it cause I remember it back when it was initially introduced in the old Pact and since it's inception it's always worked on Hammers
stable fossil
44 minutes and 15 seconds OOOOOOOOOOOF
Hades fight took me 6 minutes with this crap build
turbid arch
What kind of build was it
stable fossil
it was just a mismash of crap
Dionysus, Athena with some Poseidon and Ares
only one duo and it made minimum boon rarity epic, so no combat boost
the worst part was that I had dio attack on hestia aspect
one would have me just stand still and fire to proc poison but the other wants me to constantly stop and reload for higher damage single shots
doesn't help that my hestia aspect is only level 2
cold vapor
whats the highest escape attempt count for never meeting thanatos and/or orpheus?
ebon thistle
probably
if u choose yourself to die at the first dungeon
oh wait
i think you just dont do the dialogues
stray frigate
i met him around 20-25 iirc
stable fossil
how good is a sub 4 minute floor 1?
stiff stone
very
stray frigate
+92% enemies is so hard condition with Chiron
novel python
https://youtu.be/xOsmCQQdXqQ around 12:30, how does the mad lad do it
I'm bamboozled
turbid needle
just beat hades without taking 1 damage lol
novel python
Ooh that's hot
turbid needle
I beat all the bosses without 1 dmg
novel python
I'll see myself out
turbid needle
can finally relaxe now
novel python
Death Defiance
turbid needle
aye
stable fossil
sooooooo
I just took 70 damage from a rat
that's not normal right?
I only have time constraint on
it was freaking charmed too, so how did I take damage?
turbid needle
they get buffed when they are charmed
turbid needle
yeah, charm is pretty powerful
stable fossil
but why am I being damaged?
turbid needle
there are a couple of things in the game that are kind of obsolete or broken in combination
turbid needle
because, you don't stand in front of someone about to smash someone else
stable fossil
oh so friendly fire is on?
novel python
Becky, lemme smash
stable fossil
see the charmed status effect implies they hit enemies and not me so why would worry about being hit?
turbid needle
I would assume so, but as a charm effect, it doesn't make sense game design
hollow sorrel
Charm is bugged
turbid needle
Thought so
hollow sorrel
The projectile slowdown duo boon is bugged too
turbid needle
How is that one bugged?
hollow sorrel
For example, if the projectile is slowed 50%, it feels like the projectile exists for twice as long
So if Ares is mad at you during a trial of the gods, it’s literally 100% uptime in circles of death surrounding the monsters
hollow sorrel
Or slow hydra projectiles that repeatedly circle around to point at you, because they stay on the screen too long
turbid needle
that should actually get hotfixed
hollow sorrel
The purple clumpy projectiles are actually more awful slowed down too
So I’ll only get the duo/legendary if I think I can sell it off before it ends up being super terrible
turbid needle
the whole point of slowed down projectiles is that you have to deflect them
you don't take damage from them after
hollow sorrel
You aren’t guaranteed a deflect source every game
stable fossil
@hollow sorrel charmed bug just cost me a run, if I hadnt lost my two death defainces I wouldve won, hades had 4 hits left and I died
hollow sorrel
Besides, deflecting the purple clumpy projectiles doesn’t work well, because they move so slowly that they’ll probably break apart before returning to the witch. And the broken apart projectiles can damage you
rugged estuary
@final fox Thanks for the info - I will probably test damage reduction stacking at some point.
novel python
^ that never happened to me, if you deflect the whole thing then even if it breaks it doesn not damage you
stable fossil
Kree it happens to me all the time
novel python
Also @hollow sorrel without deflect you wouldn't get the duo so 🤷♂️
stable fossil
if you get hit by the explosion of projectiles after it deflects you do take damage
although you are correct a deflect is a requisite for the duo
novel python
I dashed into one of the little things on purpose
To see what happens
And it didnt damage me
🤔
hollow sorrel
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I still can’t deal with ares trial with it though
hollow sorrel
And having it on the sword special isn’t exactly awesome to spam to deflect everything
novel python
Is it only me or Ares blade rift builds are REALLY underpowered if you're unlucky with boons
Especially on Hera bow
Basically if you don't get the homing / vacuum in tartarus you're screwed, because it takes a cr@pton of time for the crystals to drop
Idk I feel like it needs to be tweaked a bit
stable fossil
or just dont take ares every run
novel python
I'm not lol, I'm just taking it because I'm trying to make it work
stable fossil
when it works it works
novel python
But it's not every run
Also you can't just ignore something and hope it fixes itself
stable fossil
I watched my brother 4 shot hades because he had all the boons for the ares cast and artemis legendary
novel python
It needs to be adressed
stable fossil
I mean, some times you just get unlucky
novel python
I got to styx getting everything else but Artemis duo
stable fossil
duo's are rare
novel python
And without it the combo is meh
stable fossil
yup
novel python
And styx didnt give any artemis
stable fossil
that's an oof right there
novel python
I was dumb to reset that run because I had the legendary
I shouldve at least seppukud
So I could finish the prophecy
stable fossil
oh yeah I have the heroic Aphrodite special available for 200% special damage
but I have doom on my special
Guess I have to take it don't I
+200% damage is a looooooooooot
novel python
Well tbh doom's damage doesn't scale good enough from what ive heard
But keep in mind
it can crit with pressure points
stable fossil
which I have
novel python
Ive seen doom crit for 1k+
Tbh those are the situations in which I still ask questions here
Because id be bamboozled too
stable fossil
do I take the potential 600 damage special or build for doom 
novel python
If you keep doom you have to commit to it I think
stable fossil
also why would you ever reset a run that you could just win with instead?
novel python
Also weak stays longer for privileged status
@stable fossil hades would've moved too much to actually make use of the cast
And I had no other blade rifts
stable fossil
just get gud
novel python
I wouldve either died or it wouldve taken 1 hr
stable fossil
bow does like 90 damage base you can work with that
stable fossil
you're telling me you can't land the power shot perfectly every time?
weak
this is why meg won't date zag
because he can't power shot consistently
untold widget
blimey
novel python
I'm still curious how tf does Haelian skip hydra
stable fossil
you hit it with enough damage to jump phases
you get it close to the threshhold then blow it up with a full god gauge I'm guessing
untold widget
no, its specifically at the start
untold widget
the starting animation of the hydra, and you use companion + burst
stable fossil
I don't have one of those yet
untold widget
haelian specifically uses backstab doom merciful end
novel python
Ah the speed run
Well this one is pretty fast too, just not in irl time
But in game time
Hes at hydra in around 4-5mins???
Something like that
stable fossil
game time is what it's all about
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/667469808048144384/unknown.png?width=861&height=485 Hmmm chop or flurry 
novel python
It is
solid cairn
Chop 100% for nemesis
pallid sky
chop has a bad arc :(
solid cairn
Nova chop nova chop nova chop
novel python
But athena gave me attack
Should I sell the normal Pressure points ( only +3% crit ) and hope I get it again later
stable fossil
Mash like you're playing melee and dash away if you hear attack sound cues
novel python
Controller is clunky, I switched to kbm when ive noticed the dash attacks being clunky af
stable fossil
the combos themselves depend on your weapon type
stable fossil
@novel python YOU TAKE THAT BACK HEATHEN
novel python
Ok boomer
stable fossil
@novel python ok Theseus
novel python
At least you can control where you attack with mouse
you just keep the cursor in that speciffic direction
And it attacks there
wooden lodge
you have a full 360 degree dash yes
novel python
Well I'm more used to kbm in general so theres that
novel python
Dashes maybe, but not dash attacks
wooden lodge
movement is better with a thumbstick
wooden lodge
but the actual aiming is greatly superior with a mouse
novel python
^
wooden lodge
the number of times Zagreus auto-locked onto the wrong bs instead of what I wanted astounded me
novel python
Not sure how haelian does speed runs with controller tbh
wooden lodge
no no please by all means attack the stupid trap canisters that explode into death hands instead of Hades
why would I want to attack the final boss when those green vases are standing there... MENACINGLY
wooden lodge
jazz hands poison death canisters
fcking astounding
I'm still salty over that loss
wooden lodge
perfect run but my got damn controller just said to me "TODAY WE MUST ELIMINATE ALL THE JAZZ HANDS, MASTER"
novel python
I don't really get hit by those but I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE ROOTS ME
MID DASH
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/667473645832110080/unknown.png halp, I want the call so I can just press it and Chop in peace but I also want exposed for privileged
HNNNG I can't
wooden lodge
do you have athena dash
wooden lodge
then take the exposed
stray frigate
riposte imo
novel python
But I have the chop
wooden lodge
but exposing enemies and getting another 50% damage on top of it is good
novel python
SO I need to stay in place to do damage with that
novel python
If you're doing it too fast it turns into a dash attack
grand idol
Guys, what do you think provides more overall damage mitigation? Myrmidon or Broken Spear?
novel python
For me it's spear
rugged estuary
How do you deal with hades' spin attack?
I can somewhat handle all the other stuff but that one keeps getting me
rich edge
dash away?
wooden lodge
it gets me too
rugged estuary
I try, but it's so big and he moves while doing it.
rich edge
double dahs towards him
wooden lodge
the trick I've found is just to get craptons of dps before hades
rich edge
thats what I do
wooden lodge
you can easily outspeed him in dps and kill him before he kills you
grand idol
Dash behind him
rugged estuary
@wooden lodge Lol, i've done the reserve, just get a ton of life and do the same 😄
grand idol
Like, through him. He always moves forward with his spin.
So if you are right next to him, dashing behind him even with base dashes is enough range
rugged estuary
Hm, kay. Think I'm just too slow in my reactions, because I can't see which attack hes doing in time to decide if I should dash to him or away.
novel python
other option being cast
fallow niche
Hades spin attack? I either stay out of the AoE if I can or I man-mode it and just eat it trying to DPS him down
novel python
^
latent moss
You can watch the snow too, you'll have a good idea of where he will appears, than dash away before he attacks.
fallow niche
You can't reliably dodge it
Even with Athena dash
@latent moss Its not about knowing his invis
Its super obvious where he comes from
The attack anim itself is just bad
I see the AoE and no matter when you dash it still feels like you get hit
grand idol
Biggest tell for the spin is the small sprite-circle thing that spins around him to show the range of it.
latent moss
Well I play very keep away against hades, so im.mostly never near his aoes
wooden lodge
the problem with the spin
is unless you encounter it a lot
the radius is wrong
that's not where it damages you
fallow niche
That too
wooden lodge
he charges forward
and I never know what his 'forward' is
like the direction he's facing?
tardy monolith
Who’s the new Olympian?
fallow niche
My biggest problem is the timing of the damage honestly, if I could condition myself to dash at a particular moment I would, but the AoE is massive and the timing of the damage is incredible hard to pinpoint
wooden lodge
you have to see the attack incoming, see where he's facing, predict its path, and dodge out of the way, all in like 1 second
rich edge
demeter seems like it still no official word on it
latent moss
Yeah, its why I going behind him is a good idea. He'll advance i think in the direction that the snow trace points to.
wooden lodge
like literally one second
tardy monolith
Thx
novel python
9 min finishing aspho, is this a good time
fallow niche
Yeah its decent
That's the makings of an 18 min run
Generally if I finish asph by 9 mins the run is 18 mins since Elysium is so long
novel python
what could give me the most dps output out of chop
fallow niche
Artemis crit
wooden lodge
crit damage
novel python
I already have athena's attack heroic
novel python
so take egg and get all the chaos things from shops?
in ely
since I won't really be taking chaos without egg
wooden lodge
for raw damage, you want aphrodite
novel python
this far in the game
fallow niche
You're better off shooting for aphrodite weak damage amp
wooden lodge
aphrodite also applies weak, potential for a dual status curse giving +50% damage
novel python
I do have that on special
novel python
So take the rose and aim for the dps increase?
fallow niche
Pretty much
novel python
or egg and aim for chaos?
fallow niche
Or use your fated authorities
novel python
Though that's not guaranteed to appear
fallow niche
Take rose, aim for 25% damage increase
Take chaos gates when you see them
Basically
novel python
Even in ely?
fallow niche
Yeah why not
novel python
we'll see how this works out
fallow niche
Elysium just takes a long time doesn't usually eat a death's defiance for me
The only thing besides bosses that does is the goddamn upgraded barge in Asphodel
novel python
next hammer I guess super nova would be the best choice
400% damage to armor again
SO I can shred through elites
And styx minibosses
Nevermind I got sh1tty hammer choices
double nova piercing wave and armor shredder
slayer w/e
spice prawn
i have 72 hours in and still have yet to see some boons. is there some trick to get them?
like the last ones on the list for ares, hermes, and dion
i literally have never seen them should i feed them nectar or should I increase the mirror for epic or rare or something?
the keepsakes are maxed but its just no go for some reason i feel like im missing something do i need to equip maybe a certain weapon?
rich edge
some perks have prequals
rich edge
forexample if you dont have festive fog, dio doesnt offer you the other festive fog augments
novel python
I've got 55/195 hp, should I risk it and go for jerky from patro or play it safe and go for hp?
spice prawn
ok so for example to get the boon where the casts come to you, should i focus mainly on hermes in the run?
novel python
You can only get 2 hermes boons normally, with the 3rd being in the shop in styx
So you can't really "focus" on hermes
spice prawn
yeah for 400
i keep getting it thinking its there
like as a last reward or something ill check the wiki but i didn't see anything regarding prereqs but it did teach me how to obtain duo boons
novel python
Hermes has loads of boons though, I can see that the prerequisites are "Any other Hermes boon"
Go on the god's personal page
And under boons
You'll see the prereqs
spice prawn
ok cool thanks ill check now
Boon Progression
Tier Boon Required Boons
3 Relative Speed Any other Hermes boon
3 Greater Recall Any other Hermes boon
you mean this part?
spice prawn
so its RNG then im guessin
spice prawn
yeah but ya know its the last one and its like that for 3 of mine its maddening
yeah i have 64 runs now
grand idol
Well la de da. 32 heat freakin' sucks.
novel python
LMAO
Killed theseus with Meg
And he was like
"Where did SHE come from"
I'm crying
😂
spice prawn
oof i thought 3 was tough for real
rugged estuary
I was not supposed to win this fight against Hades.
But the cheese is real.
You can really abuse his pathing at the little alcove at the top.
You get in there he just keeps walking back and forth, hits you with nothing but his whirl.
spice prawn
how about that freaking light ray that is 360 and you simply cannot avoid at all
gloomy scroll
there are obstacles that don't get destroyed that you can hide around
spice prawn
thats where i usually end up ending my run ha
rugged estuary
See the two pillars in the top left?
Try hiding behind them.
Hades will keep moving back and forth trying to reach you.
gloomy scroll
I prefer the bottom right ones but top left is good
gloomy scroll
yea
gloomy scroll
also the bottom pillars are safe there's just a small gap between them
spice prawn
its a tough but fun battle though i dont mind losing
he is after all hades so he should be kind of op
rugged estuary
Yeah, I'm just abusing his pathing in the top left. Gives you a lot of time where he does nothing and stays in one spot for stuff like festive fog lightning. Probably going to report that if it's still happening in the new patch.
I am taking so much damage every time in the hades fight
spice prawn
yeah i never thought of just hiding out to be honest
rugged estuary
I feel like the only reason I beat him is because I enter it with 300+ hp and 3 death defies
spice prawn
oh for sure
i use at least two most of the time
if the run was good to me i only end up using just one but i always equip the keepsake as just in case but im only running heat 3 atm
i can't imagine adding more difficulty to him like the white hearts and what not i don't think i could take him
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/667482801863524352/unknown.png @fallow niche 20 mins, but still k
@spice prawn max out your spearpoint
Trivializes the 2nd phase
novel python
Also check my DDs in the photo above
spice prawn
DD?
novel python
Death defiance
rugged estuary
I am at heat 3 and don't even have a companion unlocked yet
normal sleet
I have a companion unlocked but I am not playing at a heat level yet where I ever remember to use it
novel python
I do use Battie in the double elite room in Aspho
And also at the beginning of T&M fight
novel python
Paste it somewhere else and copy the link
You can't post photos here for some reason
spice prawn
ahh
i screen shot every complete run now just to try and figure out if i can identify the boons by image
sadly though i cannot haha
novel python
You can identify them by location on the boon page
First left is attack, 2nd is special, 3rd is cast, 4th is dash, 5th is call
spice prawn
oh yeah i know the menu on the left, i just meant the actual boon itself
novel python
That comes with time
spice prawn
and im still running in god mode so i feel some shame
rugged estuary
On the other hand, I have the infernal gates unlocked now but can't use them 😄
novel python
I barely use them myself
spice prawn
same
you need to be like heat 5 or even 15
are they just drops or do you have to fight
also just to clarify is a legendary better than a heroic or is it vice versa
rugged estuary
5 / 10 / 15 in tartarus / asphodel / elysium
heroic is the highest rarity normal boons can have
legendary is just special
rugged estuary
each god has a legendary boon
spice prawn
like i saw this one tonight for the first time
impressive at 60+ still hearing new dialogs and seeing new things
so lets say you end up with a heroic at singing lady and choose to upgrade random rarity - would it be possible to turn it legendary or they are simply one god with a specific legendary boon
i didnt get a chance to test if you could upgrade it with a pom since it was in styx
i would assume you cannot level it up
ocean arch
Legendary boons are specific boons that just have the one rarity, most other boons have normal -> rare -> epic -> heroic progression, though some heroic boons are only obtainable through upgrading them at Eurydice through the top choice iirc
visual mirage
so zagrues spear doesnt work on the explosive spear upgrade?
it says base damage is 60, but i dont get the added % damage from the base spear
ocean arch
Zag aspect only adds range and speed to the special, not damage
toxic tusk
Artemis really is the best girl for Poseidon (Aspect)
https://imgur.com/a/iEcInM4
hazy cliff
Honest questions - What do you guys recommend for the pact of punishment to start easy and go hard afterwards? Up to this point I have no idea how to stack it
fallow niche
Extreme Measures has story beats associated with it and honestly doesn't make it that much harder at all
Its a pretty good starting place
Otherwise I suggest trying them all one by one at the first level and see how it goes
That's something you're going to do anyway at some point for the Fates
toxic tusk
Well, at some point, you should really train yourself with Forced Overtime
One by one heat on this
fallow niche
Forced overtime is something I have mixed feelings about. It doesn't actually increase the difficulty much, but it does lock away a ton of playstyles and content. You can't take advantage of the high heat 'rewards' such as those inferno rooms because you just don't have the time.
They end up never being used
There need to be more heat options honestly
hazy cliff
So far I am going Jury Summons 3, Extreme measures 1, Forced Overtime 1 and Damage control 1. I am going trhrough it heat gaute after heatgauge to hoard rewards for the future updates
opal bay
You can go for the safety check was it? The one that prevents damage for one hit or two depending on how much you scrolled. Can screw over you if you doing one big hit damage build however.
toxic tusk
@fallow niche , Forced Overtime is enemy speed increasing 10% with each heat, up to 50%
hazy cliff
tight deadline ?
fallow niche
You use them in tandem yeah
Tight deadline
Its free heat if you're got a good pace going
But you cannot use inferno rooms
hazy cliff
I started my Heat 1 with Heightened security ... boy, that was a bad idea to try it without Athene's boon
toxic tusk
The first level of Tight Deadlind is 99% of the time free heat
hazy cliff
Well, not if you run Jury Summons
serene nexus
Jury summons is... bleh
fallow niche
Yeah I wouldn't mix those two. That's how you die on Elysium
To time.
God I hate Elysium.
hazy cliff
I like it, unless I get shield guys
serene nexus
It’s a reasonable heat but it hurts on Elysium when you run into groups of suicide carts
fallow niche
Nah those are fine
serene nexus
I prefer extreme measures and forced overtime personally
stable fossil
shields and butterflies are a close second
fallow niche
The big carts are the cancer ones
stable fossil
no no no kiting takes time
hazy cliff
I like Elysium, but I dislike Patroclus. He just feels worse than Eurydice most of the times
fallow niche
Not really if you kite directly across walls
stable fossil
I need those precious seconds for other things
fallow niche
Git gud at those other things 
stable fossil
@hazy cliff LOL WHAT?!
toxic tusk
I really hate the big Chariots. Specially if they have armor on them
fallow niche
Yes definitely
Because they can slide across walls and can hit you a dozen times in a row while charging and ministunning you
Ultra cancer
stable fossil
If you dont need healing or DD's it's literally free damage for the next boss fight and if you pull sack on your first path its also boosted damage for the hades fight
stable fossil
the traps are worse in styx
hazy cliff
I just often get him with full Defiance and hight Hp. Then it is basically a well while Eurydice always feels useful
fallow niche
get it
stable fossil
the poison fog trap is the worst
stable fossil
I just can't use half the room
hazy cliff
I am pretty sure fog traps are basically 90% of all damage I take on that level
stable fossil
snake stones hide in there
Yes but I take 3 damage every tick with the boosted trap damage
toxic tusk
If you have a Broken Spearpoint, the poison is easy to deal with
hazy cliff
Especially the room with 2 shuriken traps and the purge well in between then
stable fossil
I dont want to have to run a crap trinket or specific boons every time
fallow niche
crap trinket
hazy cliff
It is amazing trinket imho
fallow niche
Yeah its one of the best ones
stable fossil
sorry I mixed broken spear point with a different trinket
spear point is the invulnerable one right?
fallow niche
Yes
stable fossil
I run acorn in styx 90% of the time
hazy cliff
I am usually running either Spear or Myrmidon for the last level. If I don't have defiances then tooth
stable fossil
Max level blocks 5 boss hits
since it works on the pots hades spawns
it's very useful
stable fossil
skull tooth is only 150 hp you can block more than that with acorn
fallow niche
Thats only if I have good defensive boons though
hazy cliff
Honestly if I die to hades it is mostly because I screw my positioning for the lasers that go all around him and I am too slow. Spear prevents that
toxic tusk
Don't like the Myrmidon for the Hades fight. The spins sometimes hit you on the back.
stable fossil
yes the lovely 20 damage lasers
hazy cliff
I still feel it is worth it. If you get hit to back 1 time out of 3 it is still more than worth
stable fossil
lets be real
Acorn should work on mini bosses
and reset to full uses for the boss
hazy cliff
that would make it too strong imho
stable fossil
because they ARE bosses
stable fossil
yes
because it has no use outside of the boss fight
its a very weak trinket except vs hades because he does enough damage for it to be efficient
hazy cliff
well, I am still mostly using the last arena to max all my keepsakes to 3 at the moment. It just has a lot of rooms
stable fossil
how many runs in r u?
hazy cliff
59? something like that
toxic tusk
The best way to level trinkets is do a run with no heat and use them on Styx. The small rooms count as 1 for leveling them
hazy cliff
about 20 escapes
stable fossil
what heat level?
hazy cliff
6, I am moving heat by heat to get the good stuff
basically hoarding in case the patch brings somethign buyable
and kinda wondering what is the new weapon going to be and if it goes out next week or later
stable fossil
I'm furiously bashing my head against a wall trying to get the 10 titan blood
hazy cliff
@toxic tusk I am doing exactly that. I just miss about 6 keepsakes to level from 2 to 3 atm
you mean from the gated list ?
hazy cliff
I miss about half in there. I am kinda lazy do to tight deadline because I hate the feeling of being rushed
and no choice because I bloody hell know I will get all the good stuff crossed over
stable fossil
🙂 find a weapon at low heat and only do tight deadline so you can get bounties without having to worry
If im taking 9 minutes to clear any floor then something has gone horribly wrong
hazy cliff
I am always running Jury summons ... doing that on level 3 with tight deadline wouldn't work 😄
toxic tusk
Chirow bow + Extreme measures at max + 9 minutes Tight Deadline I think it's about 8 heat
A lot of rewards
stable fossil
I can clear the first floor in under 4 minutes w/out jury summons
it might suck during Elysium
hazy cliff
I can't get the feeling of Chiron's bow honestly. The only one I feel good about is poison on special
stable fossil
you have to level it up a lot and then get a good special boost
hazy cliff
I have it at max
toxic tusk
It's awesome. You can make lots of combos with it
hazy cliff
what do you recommend for Q on that?
toxic tusk
The best 2 are Dio with Aphro on attack and Poseidon on special with Zeus duo boon
rugged estuary
Is tight deadline still active during the hades fight?
toxic tusk
The last one if you get jolted and rupture, it's priveledge status on hit
hazy cliff
I just feel I should just hard roll Ares at area 1 and Artemis at 2 to get homing cast
that is broken
and I love it
toxic tusk
@rugged estuary of course it is
hazy cliff
Styx rng is not in my favour to run tight deadline
toxic tusk
If at some point you want to go for the ||Skelly Statues||, Tight Deadline it's one of the best methods to add heat
hazy cliff
that is actually not a bad idea, I will have to level that one up
anyway later lads, 12 pm here
novel python
YOu can basically get to heat 10 with only tight deadline and forced overtime
crimson geyser
is it just as likely to get legendaries and duos as it is to get any other boons once their prerequisites are met?
stable fossil
soooo
just got my first hermes legendary
finally
also just beat elysium in 16 minutes
total time is 16 minutes
I beat Tartarus Asphodel and Elysium in 16
I want that sub 20
I can taste it
or maybe that's just the Satyr Sack....
obsidian abyss
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. 🕶️
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/667519785294364693/unknown.png?width=201&height=485 fastest run you're saying Hmmm
novel python
Kek
I didn't get why haelian keeps shooting his casts out in Tartarus before going through a door in speedruns
Hmm is the crit on special worth giving up on the privileged status bonus damage?
I'm offered heroic Artemis special instead of Aphro's
Chaos shield
viral fossil
how much is the crit chance
viral fossil
tbh, I think the aphro is better than heroic artemis, since it does more than bonus damage
novel python
Ayyyy I managed to get the skip done on hydra
viral fossil
trying to speedrun?
novel python
Not really, just tried to do that a couple of times and I wasn't getting it
Happy that at least I managed to pull it xd
unkempt pagoda
@novel python he's using the same seed i believe, so he's trying to control rng (not entirely sure this is the right terminology) by shooting the casts
novel python
That's strange af
unkempt pagoda
basically making it so that each room has the same enemy waves/spawns, etc
unkempt pagoda
i believe so, i'll see if i can pull up the timestamp
novel python
Thanks
normal sleet
I initially thought it was ok, but compared to many others it's kinda only there for completionists
grand idol
Like, I appreciate that there's a lot of trinkets. But I'd prefer a handful to a lot with no use.
novel python
15:45 out of elysium and into styx
viral fossil
Imo the best one is spear, then moneybag and after that god keepsakes
I don't use any other keepsakes and I have 18 winstreak xd
||on 1-5 heat||
unkempt pagoda
@novel python The explanation was actually in one of his comment sections
But you can see in this timestamp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymhc8FHfmx8&t=153s) that there's a lot of things that can manipulate RNG
novel python
That's pretty strange, I'm not even sure how he found that out
unkempt pagoda
enemy spawns, rewards, etc
i imagine rng manipulation is a regular thing in the speedrunning community in general
viral fossil
how many seeds are there?
clever adder
how does visiting chaos/infernal gates interact with the number of chambers per biome? like if i take a chaos gate am i seeing one fewer ordinary chamber, or is it all my ordinary chambers plus a chaos gate?
unkempt pagoda
a new seed is generated every run, speedrunners just have some way of getting the same seed (not sure entirely how)
@clever adder they usually take up a room, unless it would take up a pre-boss shop. then it just spits you out in the shop, adding another chamber count
novel python
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457639241615409173/667530415040495646/unknown.png alriiight I'm really starting to get better at this
7 heat no DD lost
onyx flint
novel python
That's sweet
stable fossil
literally was one hit away from beating hades and then I screwed up the dodge timing and died to the spin because it dealt 40 damage and I only had 39 hp
any other attack I couldve survived
fallow niche
3 minute Tartarus so far 
viral fossil
Am I only one, who doesn't do "overheated" runs
viral fossil
is there any other way to see the winstreak other than winning the game
fallow niche
POGGERS
just got
done with asph
in 3 more minutes
6 minute total atm
weww
Upgraded hydra boss wasn't even that bad
stable fossil
I don;t know @viral fossil
novel python
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/667535421718265866/unknown.png?width=861&height=485 big oof here, what do I pick, I want them alllll
unkempt pagoda
merciful end
novel python
The only problem is
My 2nd status is on call
I don't have exposed ye
yet
And my doom effect is weak af
That's why I was thinking about exposed
Also more crit on attack sounds juicy af
viral fossil
@novel python I'd take 3rd one
Because special+dash is safe way to trigger doom effect
novel python
I got deadly reversal again, but I got the exposed again too fml
I think ill go for the guaranteed double status
aka exposed
novel python
Rip
fallow niche
it would have been so much faster
fallow niche
You just need some synergies to take it over the top
Like Artemis + Athena duo
Or Zeus legendary
fallow niche
Or Aphrodite buffs
novel python
it was artemis cast that won me the game
fallow niche
Artemis cast is good
novel python
k tnx
fallow niche
You don't need your special for damage, it just buffs your main attack
fallow niche
Well that would have been useful info :v
novel python
Rip
fallow niche
At that point I'd determine for myself if I felt like I needed range
novel python
patro with the run saver again
Lost all my DDs in aspho like the noob I am
Wanted to kms in the lava
But I went on
ANd he saved me
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457639241615409173/667541180720087069/unknown.png?width=861&height=485 Yep, fastest so far
@fallow niche which spear were you using?
fallow niche
Zag
I go Zag because that build doesn't need it and it allows me to use the launcher build from the hammer too for my special
Something that's also very good (though not as good unless I can find a way to refine it more)
gloomy bone
So, how would I use Hestia's aspect correctly?
I'm trying to use it, and all I've found is that it's made maneuvering more difficult since I now have another button to keep track of. The first level doesn't even seem to be worth using, compared to dash attacking normally
kind fiber
I'd agree with the interperation
The first level is pretty low value
The later levels benefit alot from the % damage increases from aphro, athena, and artemis, as well as the Chaos* boon for attack, dash attack and artemis's dash attack boon
fallow niche
Don't use it till its almost max rank or max rank
kind fiber
The fact maneuvering is more difficult is mitigated by it dealing 150 base damage
gloomy bone
Poseidon did once as well, and Zeus gave me a Call. But I only had one damage booster. So I guess I'll stick with other forms then.
For now, anyway
pallid dagger
this is probably not a cool accomplishment for the hardcore gamers in here but i just started a new file and beat meg on the first run
grand patrol
thats pretty hardcore imo!!!!
frail ore
Kind of belies her claim that you only beat her because of unfair advantages 😛
grand patrol
WOOO
fallen quarry
anyone around who has run a bunch of 20+ heat bow runs?
curious to hear if they're doing it much different than me, or it's just really not my thing.
solid cairn
@pallid dagger now beat the whole game
I would be really impressed if someone could do that
So many hard things
Terrible weapon, no DDs or keepsakes, no way to change which gods you get
fallen quarry
I've only found one way I like to run it so far... and even it is restrictive in how soon I can get explosive arrows
frail ore
I was having a lot of trouble with bow too. It seems really bad for crowd management which is everything in this game
frail ore
You can't move while you charge and it only hits a single line
solid cairn
Hera bow is way better for crowds than Chiron
frail ore
and the special locks you down while you use it too, bit slow
Ah yeah I suppose I haven't tried the different titan upgrades on it yet
fallen quarry
absolutely hate the special, hera is fun when the stars align, but it seems so few and far between that I just get bored of how bogged down it is until you get the boons for it
fallen quarry
outside of that, zag bow running high damage on explosive arrows has been the most reliable way I've manage to pull it off, and without the high and lows of the other ways
solid cairn
Weird strat
I like it
Bow is kind of weak
For a purely ranged weapon, rail is so much better
fallen quarry
it's cool that they play differently, but it feels a bit undertuned, or too niche
just too boon oriented
frail ore
My brother was saying he got an 800 damage shot on the bow, but I would guess that you have to get really good boons for that
fallen quarry
yeah, explosive arrows with aphro or art is nice
frail ore
If it takes too much luck to pull off then it's not ideal
fallen quarry
pick up triple or double shot
solid cairn
laughs in that’s every hit on a world splitter build
fallen quarry
lol, everything pales to swords potential dps
fallen quarry
Maybe when I get more fated authority it'll be better :s
frail ore
I haven't explored it heavily enough to have a concrete opinion of it but I've had really good runs with every other weapon and have had mostly bad ones with the bow, so far
I have at least beaten the game with it once
fallen quarry
my best bow run, while ending to bugged fight at hades, would have had a 23 heat clear in under 21 minutes
solid cairn
Nemesis is the ultimate risk reward weapon
fallen quarry
which I felt for the bow was pretty solid
frail ore
Nice
solid cairn
cries in still can’t beat 6 heat because relearning the game on KBM
fallen quarry
again, not the sword, shield, or rail..
solid cairn
I’m also bad
fallen quarry
heh, I'm ditching KBM the instant split direction on joysticks comes to controllers
I believe my highest crit on the bow sofar was like 1.4k
it wasn't my best dps though, I was critting around 900 damage on that run
worldly mauve
just normal max charged attack dealing 1.4k?
fallen quarry
via boons and bloodstone+privilege
maintaining privilege as the bow though can be a bit clunky, as chaotic as things become
worldly mauve
icic
fallen quarry
the special on all the other weapons naturally hitting a large area or having pierce by default
worldly mauve
yeah, not bow tho
fallen quarry
poor bow
worldly mauve
well spear special is a bit harsh without Daedalus upgrades too
but i can't do bows without dat homing special aspect
fallen quarry
I find the special takes too long of an action to actively use
worldly mauve
and it sometimes counts as just one attack, not friendly for some boons
like artemis arrow boon
north pendant
The bow special is pretty hit/miss, yeah
worldly mauve
altho most weapon has at least one risky moves that took kinda long
stable fossil
Hestia Rail has the highest damage cap for sure out of any weapon
fallen quarry
I don't use the spear, but the sword shield and rail both have ways to eliminate their downtime or standstill
stable fossil
because it has the highest base damage value on the empowered shot
worldly mauve
yeah. make a snipe build out of if would have some nice crit number popping up
but reload time tho...
stable fossil
I crit for 1.7k and that's not the highest I've seen.
worldly mauve
depends, spear special took a bit longer than id like
stable fossil
that was without having 2 debuffs on an enemy btw
worldly mauve
charge attack risky
stable fossil
It couldve been like 2.3k if I had another debuff
stable fossil
Bruh i love the sword
worldly mauve
im in love with nemesis sword so not much dash sword
stable fossil
Shield is probably my least favorite, haven't tried the chaos shotgun build yet, followed by the spear
fallen quarry
I kind of just cheesed the chaos shield, then stopped using it, lol
stable fossil
I'm on 7 heat with the rail now, going to use the same weapon till I clear 8 heat then go back to clearing everything else
fallen quarry
heh, my weapons... I have 2 clears on the spear, one done on no heat, one done on 1 heat
north pendant
I have no clue what to use for the pact aside from extreme measures
I wanna try to get the rewards for 16 heat, but...
fallen quarry
forced overtime is probably a good one to get used to using
heightened security makes it so you have to pay attention to the map heh
icy sedge
How many levels can you upgrade your boon?
icy sedge
Poms
fallen quarry
as much as rng allows
icy sedge
Ok
fallen quarry
nab an early aphro/pos duo boon and poms are now +1 extra level each use
a few people have posted pictures with abilites around level 15
I believe my highest was 12
icy sedge
But its not worth it after 10 to upgrade further more
fallen quarry
depending what you're doing, most of your power will often come from supporting boons than levels
I don't often get level 5 even
unless I've forsaken getting other boons lol
stable fossil
poison needs to stack more or fall off moreslowly