h1-builds-and-combat

[acoustic nova]

can't seem to finish it

[floral scarab]

@turbid needle oh, didn't know that it worked while you had a menu up. good to know

I feel like that boon menu should be more strongly emphasized in the tutorial stages. It's basically got all of the pertinent info for the entire game

[solid cairn]

Boon menu should pause the game

But then people may abuse it for the clearer vision

You would be able to pause time and see almost the whole screen

But you should be able to access it while paused

[low sedge]

I'm not sure if it's been looked at before. But when I used the Rail as my weapon, I took Eris aspect which improves your damage by a percent. I also have the blood boil (I think its called that) cast which improves your damage to the enemy that has a cast shard in them. But if I boost my damage with the Rail and put a cast shard in an enemy, they don't seem to stack damage increases. I still do the same damage I would have done with just the cast shard in an enemy

Mostly just wondering if that's intended to not stack

[turbid needle]

i assume it normally should

are you sure you were boosting your damage correctly with hestia?

[low sedge]

Wait, it actually is working now. Sorry, my bad

[turbid needle]

my bad i confused it with eris

aight, glad it works

[subtle shale]

I have a dumb question

do Hades' green death jars in his second phase count as traps?

[mild crag]

They do I think

Which makes em especially scary with the trap pact

[subtle shale]

yeah I got yeeted for 150 health by one in a run yesterday

[mild crag]

Oof ouch owie

[subtle shale]

and then I checked the pact and saw I had Heightened Security on and I was like 🤔

because all his other attacks did like 20-40ish and then BAM

just instagib me through two DDs

[mild crag]

Got slapped

[solid cairn]

Is there a boon god tier list out yet

[mild crag]

Don't think so

[solid cairn]

I may make a template for them

On tiermaker

Feel like they’re different enough that ranking them would be interesting

And some are better than others naturally

But for pure fun Hermes is near the top

I may make a template including everything in the game like weapons, keepsakes, boon gods, all that

This game has a lot of things to rank

[turbid needle]

Yep and the tier list changes for every weapon

[mild crag]

Yeah

And aspect

[solid cairn]

Yes I’ll include every aspect

[mild crag]

Like dionysius is exceptionally better with poison special if you pick Chiron aspect

[solid cairn]

All I gotta do is just download every image from the wiki

[mild crag]

Oh is that all

[solid cairn]

And then add them as items on the list

Some daedalus stuff doesn’t have an image on the wiki

Someone remind me to do that in like 3.5 hours

[turbid needle]

Yeah, you'd have to make a boon tier list for every weapon, and I don't have an Adderall prescription anymore.

[solid cairn]

I’m not ranking every boon

Just the individual gods

Among the other stuff

[turbid needle]

OOOHH. Oh, yeah, that's totally doable.

Poor Poseidon. C or D for every weapon.

[solid cairn]

I like him as a character

[turbid needle]

I guess B or A for Chiron Aspect.

[mild crag]

If only it was by boon

[solid cairn]

Ares’ call is so fun

[mild crag]

Then his cast could be higher at least

[solid cairn]

I’m not gonna find the icon for every boon

[turbid needle]

Flood Shot's not bad.

[mild crag]

Yeah

Just the rest of his boons are

[solid cairn]

Other people can do that

How good is ares

As I said his call is incredibly fun

[turbid needle]

I'd say Ares is S-tier.

[solid cairn]

Blade rifts are so good dude

[mild crag]

I unno I'd say A

[solid cairn]

Would you say he has the best call

[turbid needle]

Blade Rifts being compatible with every weapon, though.

Absolutely not.

I don't like Ares' Aid at all unless I have Vicious Cycle and Second Wind (faster for 8 seconds after using a Call).

[mild crag]

Doom being questionable sometimes make me hmm tho

[turbid needle]

Merciful End.

[solid cairn]

If they add a slower heavier hitting weapon doom on hit would be fun

[mild crag]

Doom is good on rail special but not on its attack

[turbid needle]

I was gonna say Doom works best as an AoE, but, uh, everything does.

Unless you have Merciful End.

[mild crag]

And athena dash

[solid cairn]

Is dio good

[mild crag]

Yes

[solid cairn]

And Hermes as well

[mild crag]

Hermes is almost never bad

Actually

[solid cairn]

I think Hermes is S Tier for fun

[mild crag]

Never bad full stop

[solid cairn]

Especially with a high tier attack speed up

With shield double hit oh my god

Ok I set an alarm for 11:30 to make the mega tier list

[mild crag]

Good luck sir

[solid cairn]

I may skip out on the Daedalus effects for now

[mild crag]

Then post it here for heavy criticism

[solid cairn]

What’s there to criticize

[mild crag]

[solid cairn]

It’s just a bunch of images

For people to rank

[mild crag]

Oh

I thought you were ranking them

[solid cairn]

I’m not gonna rank it lol

I’m gonna create a template for others to use

[mild crag]

Godspeed

[solid cairn]

And it will get pinned

[mild crag]

"will" he says

[native ether]

I know this is something a lot of games do, but personally I'm not a fan of when bosses mid fight say a line, do an animation, and become totally invulnerable while doing so. It just puts a big brick on the pacing and can end up really punishing the player if they're unfortunate by totally halting their momentum, and the boss could end up blocking a big attack. (Especially on Asterius solo fight since he's technically just a miniboss). It's not an issue if the invuln is actually quite important to the boss's moveset like Hydra when other heads are up or Meg when she's summoning, I mainly have Theseus and Asterius in mind here. I assume it's to characterise them and indicate they're moving to a new phase? Perhaps this could be done with voice lines alone, and it wouldn't hurt the pacing of a fight as much.
This has come up frequently in the game's development, but the invul phases have never really changed (besides reducing their duration) and I believe their purpose for existing is to prevent the player from one-hit killing a boss, or to prevent them from killing a boss before they can retaliate (this is definitely possible in a couple of scenarios)

So while it slows a fight down a bit, I think it's definitely there for a purpose besides fight characterization.

[turbid needle]

@native ether I actually put Special on M2 and Cast on L Shift.

[native ether]

Mine are reversed lol

Cast right click, special on shift

[turbid needle]

Yeah, I know most people use Cast on M2.

[mild crag]

I still have special and cast on Q and RMB

[native ether]

Other thing I swap is boon info on tab

[mild crag]

But I swap them based on what I'm doing

[turbid needle]

Same.

[mild crag]

Idk why

[native ether]

Yeah i play a lot of Overwatch, and I notice Q is awful in a WASD setup for a key I need to press consistently (thankfully Q is bound to ultimates in Overwatch)

Cause trying to move forward and press Q at the same time is kinda hard lol

[turbid needle]

Haaate taking my fingers off WASD.

I moved reload to M4.

[native ether]

Lol, R is a fast hit for me, super used to it, so I kept it

I could never get used to reloading in an fps to be on a mouse button, so I dropped it. (I have my quick melees set to mouse buttons though)

[turbid needle]

I still use R when playing shooters, something about isometric perspective makes my skin crawl if I can't move every direction instantly.

[jolly parcel]

if the bosses get an invuln phase to give them a breather and regroup i feel it's only right that we, as the player, get the same courtesy.

an invuln phase so we can do a few push ups, grab lunch, maybe even watch a youtube vid or two then jump back in with renewed vigor

[grand smelt]

It's so unfair that bosses get like 50k health but not us

[jolly parcel]

it's unfair that they can come to battle with the same set of OP skills but we arrive with whatever mish mash we can get on the way there. they should come with a randomized set as well

[median ridge]

its called a pause button

[jolly parcel]

if i pause during getting hit by the 12 way laser and i pause, does he waste his move? or does the move wait for me to unpause and continue destroying my life?

[native ether]

Its so unfair that the final boss can't dash to dodge our attacks

:kappa:

[grand smelt]

Isn't Death Defiance just our phase transition

[native ether]

You also do get an invul shield if you take a large damage hit in a very short time

[median ridge]

theres a few keepsakes and a boon that will give invulnerability

[mild crag]

cries in hell

[native ether]

It's percentage based on your total health, like if you suddenly drop more than 30/40% hp, you get a second of invulnerability.

(not in hell mode though)

[solid cairn]

What do you think is the best keepsake overall

I am a chad chaos egg user

[native ether]

ALL HAIL BROKEN SPEARPOINT

[median ridge]

at the moment i think skelly’s keepsake is really good for the last biome

[native ether]

THE CHURCH OF BROKEN SPEARPOINT HAS ARRIVED

[solid cairn]

I use Achilles a lot

[mild crag]

I use only Hestia Church approved keepsakes

[native ether]

Broken Spearpoint is the best keepsake if you're struggling to consistently win in Elysium or Styx.

[mild crag]

That would be Pierced Butterfly and Distant Memory

[native ether]

Everything in Styx consists of rapid multi hits of little to large damage amounts.

For example, if you get hit by a poison dart in Styx, no poison damage for one and a half seconds

If you get hit by a final boss laser, you won't take 18 damage a game tick, you get a second to get cover or a break between damage hits

[solid cairn]

Nah chaos egg is op

Because it’s chaos egg

[native ether]

You can't get combo hit for over 200 damage at a time by the final boss with Spearpoint

[solid cairn]

It’s perfect

[native ether]

You can't get Crawler swarmed or Theseus/Asterius spinned with Spearpoint.

[solid cairn]

What makes chaos rooms so good is that they also change the reward of the next room

[native ether]

You can't get lasered with Spearpoint

[solid cairn]

So if you’re desperate for a daedalus shop with the real

[native ether]

Spearpoint is god tier. Spearpoint is best bae keepsake for late game play.

[solid cairn]

Rail

You can look for a chaos room and the rewards refresh

[native ether]

My answer on the best keepsake depends on the biome you're in though.

[solid cairn]

I think Chaos is really good in tartarus

Low risk if you die and low risk for the stipulation

[native ether]

In general my runs tend to look like:
Tartarus: God Keepsake 1 (Chaos if I'm feeling lucky)
Asphodel: God Keepsake 2 (Chaos if I see a Light of Ixion in the Well)
Elysium: Coin Purse
Styx: Spearpoint

[grand smelt]

Chaos doesn't reroll the next room; Chaos is the next room.

The rewards after Chaos are the room after that

[solid cairn]

Same idea

[native ether]

In my opinion, guaranteeing a broken pair of gods to appear in your run is better than a Chaos boon.

Also yes, a Chaos room will remove a room from your current biome.

[slow flint]

Chaos is real and he tried to eat my ass

[native ether]

Meaning that it is usually a bad idea to take a Chaos gate if you're being offered a boon/heart/money/hammer

[grand smelt]

Not really the same. There's a notable opportunity cost difference between "you take health damage/carry a keepsake and get a temp drawback but it becomes a free boon" and "you're giving up another room to get this boon."

[native ether]

Cause you got one less run upgrade due to the Chaos room, where you could take it on a blue (resource room) and get a bonus upgrade instead.

[solid cairn]

I wish Hermes had an actual keepsake

That increased chance for finding him

[native ether]

Hermes works differently actually

You can never find more than 3 Hermes boons in a run

And 1 is always in Styx

[mild crag]

He overrides your guaranteed boon keepsakes too

[native ether]

He basically ignores them. He generates like a Hammer except the 2nd one isn't forced into Elysium.

[mild crag]

Also the hammer can be offered multiple times if you don't take it right?

[native ether]

Yep

[mild crag]

I didn't realise it was like that before so I always took it

Til I had it offered at two shops then a room

[native ether]

The Hammer will usually be shoved down your throat until you take it. There are exceptions though as of this update.

[gray plover]

you say that like getting the hammer is a bad thing

[mild crag]

Hammer is basically the best thing to take for rail users such as myself

And usually for most others too

[native ether]

1. If you don't take the hammer offered in Tartarus/Asphodel, you will lose that hammer.
2. If you don't take the hammer offered in Elysium, it will not be offered in Styx.

[gray plover]

I tried Hestia btw, it was ok. But I got some on-hit effects which made auto-attacking better

[mild crag]

Why'd they remove the third one anyway

"OK"?

[gray plover]

and I got that 5 shot spread so I just stuck to autoattacking the rest of that run

[native ether]

Mostly cause it was kinda insane to any weapon that wasn't the rail.

[mild crag]

"OK"?

[turbid needle]

OK

[gray plover]

I haven't maxed it out though

I ain't that rich

[native ether]

Yeah it's honestly "ok" :p

Eris at maxed can offer substantially more damage.

Hestia ain't bad tho

[mild crag]

Now listen here you lil uhh

Non swear!

[native ether]

Played 50 hours of rail I know my stuff :kappa:

Eris + Zeus Wrath can carry you through the game by itself. It's that good.

[mild crag]

[native ether]

But nah Hestia ain't bad but it's got less builds that break the game imo.

[mild crag]

True

[gray plover]

0

👀

[mild crag]

Oi

[gray plover]

lmao

[native ether]

Nah there are builds that definitely break the game with Hestia

[gray plover]

I was just kidding

[native ether]

Put Aphrodite on that thing.

[mild crag]

Finna empowered shot you in a hot minute

[native ether]

Double damage empowered shot

[gray plover]

that sounded sexual

[mild crag]

[native ether]

Add Artemis Dash damage and you can triple it

[mild crag]

Artemis dash, chaos dash

Artemis attack for crit

Also works good with Ares uhh

[native ether]

I will say Chaos is the way to beat the game the fastest

[mild crag]

The one that buffs your next attack after a kill

Since you one or two shot everything

[gray plover]

I try and take chaos keepsake to start off

not sure if it's the best to start with but it's nice if you get something good at a higher rarity

[crimson geyser]

i feel like hermes keepsake is pretty dank

[gray plover]

it makes me go hardmode and I take too much damage lol

[native ether]

Chaos Keepsake I usually only take if I see a Light of Ixion I can buy in the stairway

[mild crag]

Hermes keepsake is too hard

[crimson geyser]

i just don't like that i have to use it the entire run and therefore can't enjoy any others

[mild crag]

Pierced Butterfly is more reasonable

[gray plover]

I just hope for the 25% dodge later anyway

[native ether]

Hermes Keepsake is definitely doable if you're fast enough.

[crimson geyser]

i wish i could use it for the first biome or two then swap out and keep the effect

[gray plover]

the best keepsake is the spearhead

[native ether]

The problem is it doesn't add as much as it used to.

YES IT IS THANK YOU

[mild crag]

I can do it in Tartarus

[gray plover]

that's >25% damage avoidance

it's actually OP

[crimson geyser]

but yeah i probably have to agree about the spear (that's the invulnerability after hit one right?)

[native ether]

Yep

[gray plover]

yeah for 1.5 seconds

which is insane

[crimson geyser]

yeah

that is pretty nuts

[mild crag]

Seems pretty busted

[native ether]

The best new player keepsake is Dog Collar

[mild crag]

I still take distant memory tho

[gray plover]

and some monsters do a weak hit before their power hit

it's hilarious

[crimson geyser]

i actually haven't used it in a while just cuz i'm tryna level up my other keepsakes and explore more diversity in gameplay, but yeah i used to take it all the time

[turbid needle]

Quick question

[crimson geyser]

i only recently started using any of the god boons tbh

[native ether]

Dog Collar can be gotten on run 2 and maxxed out in a couple of runs, and then you can have 100 health to start without the mirror upgrade

[turbid needle]

Is the wiki info correct that the attack/special damage buffing boons have ranges for their values above common?

[gray plover]

I need the god legendaries but taking their keepsakes doesn't really help that much

[turbid needle]

rare being 1.3-1.5 the base value for example

[native ether]

If it's a Rare, Epic, or Heroic boon, it'll be multiplied by an amount, yes.

[turbid needle]

Thanks

[native ether]

Duo and Legendary boons have no scaling.

[turbid needle]

Wanted to be sure before I gave feedback on hating it

[native ether]

oof

Poms also scale differently.

[turbid needle]

poms are fine

it's just rarity I dislike

[crimson geyser]

?

why don't you like it?

[mild crag]

Rarity gives incentive to trade boons too

[turbid needle]

I'll finish my feedback post about it

[crimson geyser]

word

[native ether]

fair enough

[turbid needle]

it's nice in theory but feels bad in practice

[gray plover]

btw I think the god mode does show up in the end game screen, next to your total darkness

[native ether]

Does it? Cool cool, I've not used it.

[gray plover]

I only played through with it once, but it doesn't count it as a run for your weapon (makes sense) and I'll probably try and see if it goes up to 100% some time later

if you die with it you get a +2%

[native ether]

I think it does, not sure though

Seemingly had no cap when some of us were trying it out for the first time.

[gray plover]

I kinda try to win each time so not gonna spam deaths for it

not sure how it stacks with the other damage reduction though

[turbid needle]

there we go, feel free to downvote

Now to give my last bit of feedback about that pesky meta progression

goes up to 80%

@gray plover

[gray plover]

ah cool

[turbid needle]

for dr in general, that's the hard cap

[cosmic dawn]

Is it normal to be able to proceed to the next chamber even while a treasure trove challenge is still active?

That just happened to me and I never noticed it before

[gray plover]

yeah I did that

I activated one and I was like... eh can't be bothered

[turbid needle]

didn't know you could escape it

neat

[gray plover]

I guess just see if there are chariots and then leave if there are 😭

[cosmic dawn]

I wonder how high chariots would rank if there was a poll for which enemy people found the most annoying in the game

[turbid needle]

👏 more 👏 fast 👏 unstaggerable 👏 enemies 👏

[gray plover]

I want a chariot boss for the TRUE endgame

[turbid needle]

just a giant kamikaze chariot that burns through all your dds at once if it ever hits you

[cosmic dawn]

Chariots are even more annoying with the explosive shot upgrade for bow

like, what do you want me to do, deal 20 or so damage every couple of seconds with my special while I kite it around the room?

[gray plover]

oh god... extreme measures level 4.
3rd phase. "You're tough, but now let me get on my chariot..."

[turbid needle]

the big ones or the explosive ones?

[gray plover]

O_O

[cosmic dawn]

The big ones

Although the small ones can also prove to be a nuisance

[turbid needle]

just use your cast 4Head

[cosmic dawn]

Not nearly as large of a threat as the big ones though

[turbid needle]

at least you can run the small ones into the wall

[gray plover]

if you dodge over gaps you're usually fine with the little ones since they kill themselves

I was 58 vs 3 against a certain someone

because of that

[turbid needle]

You do have a chariot boss

[gray plover]

you do?

[turbid needle]

I mean

he's in a chariot yeah

he just does doughnuts rather than ramming you

Elysium Drift

[native ether]

Ah I see

I don't mind the rarity on boons in that sense because I have the mirror maxed

Usually means I'm getting Rare or Better on nearly everything.

[gray plover]

I think sometimes just getting certain abilities is nice, even if they're common

[native ether]

I also use God Keepsakes smartly, which basically guarantees I'm always getting rare or better.

[turbid needle]

I hadn't gotten into that but basically the mirror is part of the issue I have with boon rarity

[gray plover]

like 4% crit chance isn't as good as 6% sure but, it's something

or artemis' +arrow per hit

I don't need the max damage, I just want it to be happening

[turbid needle]

I've only picked up the game recently, so I wanted to give that 'new player perspective' that most people forget after playing the game for long enough

[gray plover]

Athena's dodge deflect may as well do 0 damage

[native ether]

For most boons, you simply need the boon, you don't need the epic to win.

Like I find myself less relying on that epic tier boon, and more on getting the right boons I need to get Duos or Legendaries.

[turbid needle]

getting athena's dodge as a pom option always sucks yh

[native ether]

Like I don't care what tier Poison I get so long as I can get Black Out or Low Tolerance. It's always good.

[gray plover]

I generally avoid poms

[turbid needle]

and the new player experience feels like being faced with a long, daunting list of things to check off before getting to the level of reliability the game is balanced for

[grand smelt]

The starting difficulty is much easier than the game is balanced for anyway though

[turbid needle]

why would you avoid poms? the uptick from lvl 1 to 2/3 is massive

Like, is the game balanced around +50% rare chance, or 0%?

[mild crag]

It actually doesn't take that long if you're already good at the game, so I think the game making it have ramp up is good anyway to help you learn the basics

[turbid needle]

Even if it's easier, it doesn't feel good to me

[gray plover]

I'd rather take another boon, or money (to buy another boon)
or gems for back home, etc

a pom is nice I guess. but I don't think I ever NEED it

[turbid needle]

Again the feedback channel seems to be for opinons

[mild crag]

Also the game becomes imbalanced if you're played with a maxed mirror at 0 heat

[turbid needle]

I'm just sharing the things that make me go "I love Hades, BUT"

[mild crag]

Not saying you're wrong

[native ether]

Other things that are helpful to know is that a boon reward from a mini boss is always rare or better.

Game is definitely balanced and beatable around the common boons.

Nah your feedback is fine. This is less me telling you that your opinion is wrong and more generating discussion.

[mild crag]

I get it

[gray plover]

I was thinking the mini boss stuff was better, but wasn't sure

[turbid needle]

I'm sure the game is balanced fine and I need to git gud, I just feel like the game is actively putting me off wanting to play it to where it's comfortable for me

wow, big downvotes lol

[native ether]

The game is definitely balanced around a non-maxxed mirror, I've beaten the game with only 500 in the mirror consistently, and there's a pact option which does give you free points to limit it.

[gray plover]

I remember a while back someone suggested a no boon run option. Would be funny to try something like that

[native ether]

Yeah I just don't have a problem doing runs to improve keepsakes lol. Given a full run is 70 rooms, 60ish of which count towards the keepsake, I just don't mind. You max the keepsakes you like using and the others kinda just don't get the improvements.

[gray plover]

the keepsake is like... a drop in the water compared to how many gems you need to buy stuff

[mild crag]

Don't feel bad for getting downvotes @turbid needle, my last suggestion is at like 29 👎 lol

[gray plover]

you could level up all the keepsakes and not afford some things

😓

[native ether]

Downvotes mean less "feedback sux" and more "I just don't agree"

[turbid needle]

i'm sitting on 8 diamonds or sth, haven't been able to purchase anything at the contractor for at least 6 runs

I think the gemstones don't bother me because you don't get to see the full list of gem upgrades

gems man

they suck

So I don't know what I'm missing

[gray plover]

yeah if they're so rare, why do things cost so much with them 🤔

[turbid needle]

but I can SEE how many rooms of non-maxed keepsakes I need ro do for them to all work well

Also troves are a gemstone godsend

but there's no trove for keepsake levels

pf

they work well without being maxed, don't try to 100% the game in 20 hours

[gray plover]

you don't need to do all the keepsakes. Just the ones that help your runs. The other keepsakes are just because you wanna be a completionist (I want to do all of them too) but it makes sense for the completionist aspect to be a grind

the spearhead is OP at 0.5 seconds 👀

[turbid needle]

They work, but I'm put off by the fact the only thing between me and their full power is 'more playtime'. It's not an enjoyable unlock system

[native ether]

Don't really mind any of the grinding. My philosophy on grinding is "if I enjoy the game, I don't consider it a grind"

Yeah there's ways to get resources quickly if you want to. Mirror is easy to max if you always run the Dark Thirst weapons, hunt for Chaos and Poseidon boons, and don't use any heat. Gems are similar, but trove hunting instead.

[turbid needle]

I'm going to post about the titans blood in a sec that will cover what botheres me about the keepsakes kinda too

have you done heat runs yet?

bc that kinda matters for blood feedback

[grand smelt]

Look I'd rather just start a rogue"lite" with full stats power and unlock higher difficulties and maybe different options rather than straight buffs (Crypt of the Necrodancer is good at this), like perhaps unlocking some of the Olympians like Artemis, but I know that getting "weaker" (by fighting stronger enemies) is a feeling that sits badly with various people, and I've met less people who feel like I do than the opposite.

[native ether]

I assume so, if they have Titan Blood

[gray plover]

you get titan blood without heat though

[native ether]

Not very much

[gray plover]

yeah I know, just saying that you can get it

[turbid needle]

which is why you could see them having an issue with it

is my point

[grand smelt]

And as THESEUS said it feels like less of a grind when I'm focusing on just doing runs and the upgrade resources are incidental

[turbid needle]

I've done heat runs

I also play my rougelikes differently than most devs intend though

[gray plover]

It can be annoying not being fully maxed out, but I don't think I'd have put as much hours as I have if I finished all that early on

[turbid needle]

And I also think there's better ways for unlocking some content than just meta-items

i just wanna use my resources and the gems keep gating me and it blows

I'm more annoyed by the aspect unlocks rather than the aspect power upgrades for the most part

especially with the constant drapery offers at the contractor

[gray plover]

"what am I, made of gems?"

or whatever the line is

[grand smelt]

Gems certainly do not feel better than darkness to me lol

[native ether]

Granted as well, you definitely do not need any of these upgrades to win the game.

I've beaten the game at 24 Heat (the old max, and it was 120) with a level 1 Myrmidon Bracer, no aspects, and the Rail

[turbid needle]

i really don't have any issues with blood tbh

[gray plover]

I don't think it makes sense for the lower aspects to cost so much. It's not like they're significant better. They could be in any order

[turbid needle]

Although for some context, I edited the save file in Risk of Rain 2 to skip a good portion of the character skill unlocks when they were added because of the unbalanced requirements because as a singleplayer game, I'd rather have the content that's in the game when I want it

It's not that I need them to win

[gray plover]

yeah I was gonna say since you mentioned RoR what your thoughts were lol

[turbid needle]

it's that I'm put off from the game by having to invest so much for it with no other way around it

[gray plover]

some of those require you to jump through weird hoops

[turbid needle]

sure but the unlock process here is hardly as painful as ror's character unlocks

I did some of the weird RoR ones though

it's like a run or two for each

and they were more fun than 'go do the same thing again with new weapon in spicy mode'

more akin to tboi where you constantly have a new thing to play with

[gray plover]

well sure

[turbid needle]

It's less about the pain and more about the method being uninteresting

[native ether]

I think the last 3 mirror upgrades are more the "late game darkness sinks" and that's why they're so expensive

[gray plover]

I think if the aspect unlocks were based on something specific.
Use sword in X way to unlock next sword.

that'd be nice

[turbid needle]

^

the method is playing through the game you paid for and are supposedly enjoying on a mechanical level

[native ether]

Like Fated Authority is like 20 times more expensive than both of those upgrades combined lol. Each upgrade becomes exponentially way more expensive.

[mild crag]

The bigger problem with darkness is it becomes almost useless on hell mode after you collect 2500

[gray plover]

It's kinda common feedback that people don't like the blood stuff for aspects. That alternative unlock would probably be well received 🤞

[turbid needle]

yeah, being able to remove darkness room rewards on hell mode would be decent

[gray plover]

I don't mind spending to upgrade new aspects further though

[native ether]

Alternative Unlock methods would be neat, but Blood is great to keep the aspects kinda locked into the late game.

[turbid needle]

it was well-recieved, yes https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/657663151780659224

[gray plover]

but the first aspect is so cheap compared to the others. and some of the others aren't as good

[native ether]

Also should be worth mentioning if you want to high heat clear the run, you'll have to turn off most of your mirror anyways cause Budget Cuts is some easily to get Heat.

[turbid needle]

anyway an alternative unlock method for the aspects would probably be better yeah

unlocking the first after your first win with the weapon and the second and third through other requirements

[gray plover]

unlocking the first after the win? does that mean barefist run? 😛

[jolly parcel]

that's not a bad idea...demonic gauntlets

something akin to devil may cry gaunts maybe?

[gray plover]

I want to throw enemies at eachother

[turbid needle]

@turbid needle I am enjoying it on a mechanical level yes, but my level of displeasure with the meta systems is actively making me feel like not playing

nah there'll be at least three extra aspects for each weapon from what's shown in the weapon select screen

I'm going to suck it up anyway because it doesn't bother me TOO much yet

but I know the devs want feedback, so

here it is

[gray plover]

is the last one gonna cost 4,5,6,7,8...?

[turbid needle]

"I hate meta progression, let me edit my save"

[gray plover]

maybe I won't unlock everything until the update which will make that obsolete 🤞

[turbid needle]

gonna sit on a mountain of ambrosia until i can romance everyone

[jolly parcel]

i actually enjoy the unlock system, gives me something to work towards instead of just getting everything handed to me...at that point there's no point to playing anymore for me

[gray plover]

romance everyone, or just drink it in bed, alone*
I want that option too

[turbid needle]

I've just started playing and does the bow suck or is it just me. Even the chiron aspect the dps is so low

try hera

[jolly parcel]

early game it sucks, this is true, you have to put some work in to make it good

[mild crag]

Post nerf chiron isn't as good low level

[turbid needle]

I dislike unlock systems but I'm also the kind of person that will play a game for years if I like it regardless of unlocks

so to me it just serves as a time gate to get the full experience of something I like

If the game is good, it will keep players playing

is my philosophy

[mild crag]

I wouldn't call fated authority and the god buff boon rarity the full experience

[turbid needle]

Maybe not but it's certainly an intended, if optional mechanic

[gray plover]

I think the full experience is the story

the mechanics are just for people who wanna grind

[mild crag]

That's one of your options

The other option is to play on heat with budget cuts

[jolly parcel]

sometimes it's not enough, a common complaint in live service games is lack of content or things to do or things to get even if the gameplay is top notch

[turbid needle]

It's a timgated option rather than a menu one

[solid cairn]

Will start progress on the tiermaker for this game soon

[turbid needle]

That's because live service games are designed to be content dry and stretched over time

I hate live service games

[gray plover]

there's also god mode if you wanted something like that

[turbid needle]

Besides hades is a rougelike not a live service

[gray plover]

to make it easier to do runs

and then you don't "rely" on anything

[jolly parcel]

the sentiment is the same regardless of the genre

[turbid needle]

I ||sometimes use godmode on hades only|| but that's because he's a beefcake

[gray plover]

if you switch it off before a finished run does it count as an actual clear? or a god mode clear

[solid cairn]

I think dead cells handles difficulty very well and I recommended it

[turbid needle]

Usually doesn't help too much because his health is just so fat

I really hope they redo the hades fight a bit

but I don't have any good feedback for it

[gray plover]

The most enjoyable part of dead cells for me was the timed runs

[solid cairn]

Also agreed, ||Hades||can be BS and not in a fun way

[turbid needle]

he feels really punishing for melee weapons

[gray plover]

I think it just takes practice

[solid cairn]

In a “you made one mistake so there goes half your health/death defiance” way

[turbid needle]

anything with a spin does

[solid cairn]

Shield is good vs him

[gray plover]

You can dodge the spin

you don't need to dodge away

[turbid needle]

I can, but a bow doesn't even have to

[gray plover]

I melee with bow so... >_>

[solid cairn]

Trying to get used to using shield

[turbid needle]

40 is a lot of damage is just how it feels to me

[solid cairn]

I heard it helps a lot

[gray plover]

with shield you don't need to dodge since you can block

[solid cairn]

Maybe not the best learning tool tho

[jolly parcel]

if you don't take the bait and not dodge when the circle outline shows and instead dodge just before he actually spins, your invin frames when you dodge will avoid for you

[gray plover]

when I started, I was struggling with him

[turbid needle]

when Thesus only does 40 damage if you get hit with the spear throw AND recall, after a long telegraphed windup

[gray plover]

but nowadays I have all my lives and I tank the damage

[turbid needle]

hades just goes

[gray plover]

it's just practice

[solid cairn]

Probably best to bite the bullet and learn how to dodge

[turbid needle]

'okay here's the outline now dodge'

[solid cairn]

Why am I spoilering it anyone who plays this game immediately knows he’s gonna be the final boss

[turbid needle]

yeah yeah, 'git gud'

[mild crag]

Spoilers are allowed in here anyway

Afaik

[turbid needle]

If his indicator is misleading and needs to be learned as bait

then it needs changing for clarity

[solid cairn]

It’s not like hypnos jumps out and kills hades and is the true final boss

[jolly parcel]

it's to tell you it's coming

[turbid needle]

god I wish

[solid cairn]

Please add that though

[turbid needle]

Hypnos is best boy

[mild crag]

Then he goes back to tell hades to just dodge

[solid cairn]

Killed by [REDACTED]

[mild crag]

Those redacteds got you again huh

[jolly parcel]

i imagine when you kill him he shows up in the blood pool like you do, what exactly happens there?

[solid cairn]

Best character in this game is skelly and the Boulder

[mild crag]

Bouldy's a good listener

[solid cairn]

Skelly is an immortal being who wants to die and Bouldy is Bouldy

[gray plover]

is there a cap to the gold %?

it's probably not worth it but...

tempting

[native ether]

To how many gold percentages you can get?

[solid cairn]

One thing I love about this game is that even the characters treat Zagreus’ escape as a routine thing

Stuff doesn’t reset

[jolly parcel]

the only reason to get gold percentage over other stuff is if you are angling for the blood or diamond in charron's last shop

[gray plover]

@native ether from Bouldy

I'm at 2%
I'm rich af

[solid cairn]

Can the Titan blood appear any amount of times

Like does it run out

[gray plover]

in the last shop?

[solid cairn]

Yes

[gray plover]

it doesn't run out I don't think

[jolly parcel]

i heard it's infinite

[gray plover]

like how you can keep buying darkness every run

[mild crag]

It's randomly one of the three premium currencies

And it's always there

[solid cairn]

Ok good because the only other way to get infinite Titan blood is a very long trading sequence

[native ether]

Oh lol, no idea

[solid cairn]

When I make the tiermaker for this game and it gets pinned I will add every single boon in the game to it

[gray plover]

I don't see him in enough runs, I also don't have enough nectar to spam it

[native ether]

Keep in mind the Fated List also has Titan Blood to help out with some Aspects

Beating the game with each Pact option rewards a handy amount (don't have to do it at once, just use each one at least once at any level)

[solid cairn]

god damn it someone already made one

well I can still do keepsakes and aspects

[native ether]

Lol, it's probably outdated

Than shows up only if you took damage in a semi previous room

If you play really well, you'll almost never see him

[gray plover]

oh is that why I always see him 👀

it's intentional, I promise...

[mild crag]

Good to know, I wasn't aware of that

Gonna have to play well everywhere then job in elysium so he shows up to save me a room's worth of time

[gray plover]

haha

free kills on souls too

[mild crag]

Yeah he pretty much can't beat you in elysium

Unless you're really struggling

[strong verge]

Okay, I feel like taking off Forced Overtime was the right idea. For whatever reason, I was totally doing terribly on my last few runs.

[mild crag]

And got to elysium weak

Forced overtime is one of the roughest conditions yeah

[strong verge]

I was doing pretty well with it previously, but now that I have to add other stuff on top of it to unlock new bounties... Yikes.

[native ether]

Forced Overtime is one of those ones that's hard to get used to

[strong verge]

Forced Overtime + Calisthenics was brutal.

[native ether]

Oof yeah don't do that.

Try Overtime with Timed Deadline

Everything is faster so the deadline is easier

[strong verge]

Though the idea of Hades making everyone do burpees is amusing.

[gray plover]

lol

[solid cairn]

https://tiermaker.com/create/hades-keepsakes-82372

now I need to do weapons and aspectsw

https://tiermaker.com/create/hades-weapons-and-aspects-82372

go wild guys

[abstract pilot]

having trouble uploading the image

[solid cairn]

show me your hot takes

there is one keepsake missing

the acorn

[abstract pilot]

i think image uploads are not allowed on this channel? 😢

[mild crag]

Yep

Upload somewhere else and post image link

[solid cairn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392070250511728653/657796493184598047/unknown.png

[mild crag]

Hot take

[solid cairn]

sorry for bad cropping

nothing I can do

[mild crag]

That's not all you should be sorry for with this image

[abstract pilot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643886239233081366/657796795757494279/my-image.png

[solid cairn]

I think I made it better

weapons and aspects is more interesting

again wish I could have made it so none of them got cropped off

[atomic panther]

Please don't use asterisks to dodge the swearing censor

[abstract pilot]

hm, i don't know these aspect images very well, reading all the tier lists is going to be hard

[solid cairn]

I'll link to the wiki

I was gonna crop out the skull but I need to remake the whole thing to change images

should I?

meh people can tell what it is, its fine

[abstract pilot]

the skull is good enough

are you adding the acorn?

[solid cairn]

no png

the weapon and aspect one looks absolutely perfect

very happy with it

I want to see your lists

[abstract pilot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643886239233081366/657799352882036776/acorn.PNG

¯_(ツ)_/¯

https://tiermaker.com/list/history/hades-weapons-and-aspects-82372/345541

[solid cairn]

I can make that a png

transparent I mean

I can't crop it properly I give up

[abstract pilot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643886239233081366/657802977960132624/acorn.PNG

lol i tried

[candid merlin]

Bruh my cast is melting hydras

ares along with a duo ares+artemis boon

But other than that my build has nothing D:

[atomic panther]

Hunting Blades is all you need

[limpid tapir]

Is Chaos shield that good?

[solid cairn]

Best shield aspect

But meh

[limpid tapir]

How so? I still find the damage super unreliable/low

[charred wasp]

is it only me or is the bone hydra the easiest of all the bosses?\

[limpid tapir]

IMO hydra is the easiest but most annoying of the bunch

[charred wasp]

yeah his hitboxes are really weird

[solid cairn]

None of the other aspects are good

So

[turbid needle]

Hydra is the hardest because I get impatient and take damage just to get it over with faster

[charred wasp]

and hard to judge

[solid cairn]

Not much competition

@limpid tapir

[limpid tapir]

Thaaat's true.

It just feels like next to Hera bow, Hestia gun, and Hades spear, the Chaos shield isn't as impressive

[candid merlin]

WOOOHOOO

2 runs in a row in hell mode

The first one with spear with main focus on special

and second one with shield with main focus on cast

[limpid tapir]

Niicely done 😄

[final fox]

chaos shield really shines when it has a flat damage boon on the special

like zeus or ares

[limpid tapir]

My biggest issue with shield throw is that 15 base damage is reaaaaally low

And inconsistent in landing all shields on one target to be worth it

Yeah. Doom on it is pretty solid, considering intermittent hits because of unreliability XD

[strong verge]

Man, I'm still in a slump.

I think I may need to take a break.

[abstract pilot]

you can hit all the shields on one target by bull rushing into it first

then you can dash away right after

unfortunately, it's not really any good until you get lots of points in it, which is a lot of investment

curious to see other peoples' tier lists 🙂

[turbid needle]

does swift flourish affect the movement speed of zeus' shield?

[atomic panther]

Yes

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/657822601615507457/BZRYILm1PrC1AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC.png
Here's my tierlist

[turbid needle]

thanks

why the disrespect for zag spear?

[atomic panther]

I just don't like the normal spear throw

[limpid tapir]

I just don't like spear throw in general XD

[cosmic dawn]

How dare you put Hades aspect in F tier

[limpid tapir]

Wait.

What's so bad about 150% damage bonus?

If anything it's the best spear aspect imo

It buffs up your normal attacks from 20/30/30 to 50/75/75, or 60/90/90 vs boiling blood enemies

which is, without question, the highest attack damage in the game baseline that isn't Hestia rail at 150

And if anything, spear out-DPSes Hestia rail because Hestia does one instance of 150 and has to reload, while spear can stab 1-2 times afterwards to either break even or come out ahead

[cosmic dawn]

Also, Hera aspect is the lowest bow aspect on there?

truly a cursed list SMH

[limpid tapir]

Hades spear, Hera bow, Hestia rail, Poseidon sword, ??? shield are the best aspects imo

[cosmic dawn]

What do you mean by "??? shield"

[limpid tapir]

Because I hate shields in general XD

[cosmic dawn]

bruh

[limpid tapir]

Chaos shield is unreliable, Zag shield is boring, Zeus shield requires so much gimmicky movement to make sure it lands on target

[karmic coyote]

wdym unreliable

[limpid tapir]

Chaos shield occasionally hits enemies for 15 * 5 or so, assuming every shield happens to land

Sometimes I've thrown the shield directly at an enemy and no shields hit

[cosmic dawn]

idk dawg, at least one usually hits for me if I'm close enough

[limpid tapir]

If it was thrown in a simple even spread, I'd enjoy it because you can bull rush -> treat shield throw like a shotgun, right now I've thrown point blank shields and they whiff

I wish.

Makes me a sad panda.

[cosmic dawn]

Maybe you've done something to the shield in a past life

and this is just karma for you

[limpid tapir]

I tried so hard to like Chaos shield, but the aim is so wonky that I've given up XD

^^^

In general, I've used shield before and thought to myself, "Why am I not just using Hades spear and stabbing them once for 90 damage"

60/90/90 damage spread on spear combo means you actually have reason not to abuse dash attack spam, base damage that high on 2nd and 3rd thrusts is obscene

Even Elysium champions fall over fast enough.

[karmic coyote]

i like throwing spear away than actually stab people with it

[limpid tapir]

I used to hate spear, until I realized Hades aspect pushes its damage so high that it makes up for the long startup frames

Maybe sword can dance around attacks easier and fit in more attacks, but Hades spear compensates by making each attack worth 2-3 sword attacks.

[karmic coyote]

and spear is the true armor destroyer thanks to daedalus upgrade

[limpid tapir]

^^^^

Don't fu-- with the spear.

I like to treat spear as the greatsword/super heavy melee weapon equivalent in Hades.

Slowest startup and recovery frames of the bunch, but highest damage per attack.

And don't be afraid to spend more time evading because you're 100% going to get hit more often because of that lag.

[karmic coyote]

i strictly used spear in close range before with hades aspect until i realized how good was the spear throw

[limpid tapir]

What's so good about spear throw?

25/25 damage on throw and return baseline. Achilles pushes it to 25/62.5 with 150% damage bonus

[karmic coyote]

oh with hammer upgrade, especially the one which gives you 50% critical chance on return, even shield folks can't stand a chance

[limpid tapir]

Ahhh, gotcha.

Yeah, that can work.

Honestly, can't bring myself to run weapons that rely on a specific hammer upgrade to spawn to do really well.

There were a few posts in #hades-feedback where people wanted two hammers to spawn at specific points in a run to smooth out the power curve, seems like a good idea. That'd make it a ton more reliable

One RNG check to try and get a hammer sooner rather than later, another RNG check to hope that of the 3 upgrades that happen, one of them is the one you want

[karmic coyote]

if i can't find the hammer upgrade then i just play normally, just swing with the rng

[limpid tapir]

Play normally as in use the standard attacks?

[karmic coyote]

having bad run makes you appreciate good run more

yeah good old spin then attack

[limpid tapir]

That's true, but suffering bad RNG also pushed me to focus on the weapons I listed above that're already strong by default without boons

[karmic coyote]

true but Hades seems to be the best at balancing at least compare to other roguelikes i play, enter the gungeon, dead cells and especially isaac, you can easily have an awful run in those games

[limpid tapir]

^^^^ That's suuuper true.

[cosmic dawn]

One thing I really like in Hades when compared to other rogeulikes is that it's really hard to get a "boring" run

In something like Isaac, it's really easy to only get only boring and basic common items that only do lame stuff like add 2 points to your damage or something like that

and you'll most likely end up dead due to that

with Hades you'll inevitably get runs that are less powerful than others, but it never feels like you're bound to lose because of your build

[karmic coyote]

yeah when i die in Hades i don't feel frustrated because of bad rng

[limpid tapir]

The one nice thing I love in Hades is that you can't get 100% screwed due to bad drops.

Almost all of the boons are useful (if not all of them)

[karmic coyote]

and it's easier to set up an op run in Hades too because you can manipulate the rng somewhat thanks to god keepsakes, simply Hera aspect and Dionysus or Ares cast and boom you have an op run

[limpid tapir]

Yesss.

Which I adore because in the other roguelikes listed, you don't have any way to really tweak RNG in your favor.

And some players might argue that's part of the fun, buuuut how fun is having a terrible run through no fault of your own? Either you get stuck with a subpar set of drops, or you reset and start anew. In the latter case, you basically threw away a run anyway.

[cosmic dawn]

Exactly

It might also help that unlike Isaac Hades actually has fun gameplay

lol

[limpid tapir]

In other words: you get screwed, or you lose. In Hades, you can push RNG in your favor to avoid said situations. Not to mention the boons on offer are never bad either.

Yeah XD

Hades you could play for the sake of playing it. It's like Monster Hunter, imo

[karmic coyote]

not to mention that Hades has the best story telling, lore in other games are basically non-existent or no one cares about it

[cosmic dawn]

If I'm being completely honest, when Supergiant announced that their next game was gonna be a roguelike, I was kinda disappointed, since I'm not that huge of a fan of the genre

[limpid tapir]

But? 😛

[cosmic dawn]

In the end though I'm pretty glad they went this path with the game

[limpid tapir]

Agreed.

And imo art direction and storytelling don't get enough credit.

Endless Legend/Space were the most engaging of the 4X genre for me because it actually had a good story.

[cosmic dawn]

One of my biggest worries was that there wouldn't be enough room for any worthwhile storytelling considering the genre, which would've been a shame since I think it is one of SGG's biggest strengths

Luckily though they were able to successfully pull it off

[limpid tapir]

The voice acting is top-notch too. Bad VOs can break immersion so quickly.

[mild crag]

Good point to mention is being a roguelike makes sense

[limpid tapir]

You gon die.

[mild crag]

Not just repeating cause that's the game

[limpid tapir]

Figures the son of a death god can't stay dead, huh?

[karmic coyote]

i didn't think i would grind this much in Hades at first but i ended up grinding hundred of nectars for that sweet lore

[limpid tapir]

Me too.

I could get the drops for things like darkness or gems. Nah, I want nectar.

All the nectar.

[cosmic dawn]

Same

Gotta get those sweet character interactions

[limpid tapir]

Half the reason I take Chaos gates are to hand Master Chaos some sweet goodies XD

[karmic coyote]

2 doors 1 is hammer upgrade the other is nectar, guess op run will have to wait

[limpid tapir]

Yup!

[cosmic dawn]

I've just had the perfect idea for a meme from this conversation

Might take a bit to make though

[karmic coyote]

though i wonder if i should continue giving nectar to Bouldy every run or save it up instead, i don't suppose i can max out Bouldy hearts because he doesn't have an entry

[limpid tapir]

What's the meme idea? Nectar > everything? XD

[cosmic dawn]

mayhaps

I post memes in fanworks right?

[karmic coyote]

seems so

[abstract pilot]

i'm not sure you can even be offered both at the same time, lol

[native ether]

Hades is definitely I think the easiest roguelike ive played in a long while, at least from the initial start. Its got a great system which lets you make it much more difficult, but I think its definitely more approachable than other similar titles from the past couple years.

[turbid arch]

Base game is much more approachable than Enter The Gungeon for example.

That game was hard. But had next to no customization in terms of difficulty to make up for it-.

[karmic coyote]

Hard and the loots were pretty bad, it only became better after a few large updates

[gray plover]

I feel like replaying is a core part of the game. Most other games want you to spend a while getting stronger before you actually win

[turbid arch]

Oh yeah, them adding Synergies to the game was a huuge help.

Also just some more actually great weapons in general.

[gray plover]

they're not finished yet either so who knows what else is coming difficulty/content-wise

[karmic coyote]

I literally get 3 water gun in 3 consecutive runs in enter the gungeon when i first played it

[gray plover]

I haven't really played that many other games in the genre. It's not my favourite genre

[karmic coyote]

I have play quite a few and Hades easily stand out among them

[gray plover]

I'm biased towards the company though so it's hard to be objective

I really liked Risk of Rain

[karmic coyote]

1 or 2 or both, i have only played 1

[gray plover]

1

2 is just a 3D version of 1

which is enjoyable in it's own way lol

I think 2 is still early access so I'm just waiting for the actual release

I don't usually play early access stuff because I get worried about getting burnt out with the game before release

[karmic coyote]

Lier, you're playing Hades right now

Also same i'm waiting for the full version

[plush lion]

Finally I've found people who play this game! I have been googling and just not getting much info

[gray plover]

Yeah I mean I don't usually do it. I just couldn't stop myself anymore

I held back from getting it on epic games because I thought it was releasing in December

But then I just bought it anyway lol

I kinda regret not getting it earlier

[karmic coyote]

Grind the hell out the game to make up for lost time

[gray plover]

I'm trying!

[karmic coyote]

Did you get the column or the vintage lounge, 7000 gems kill me

[plush lion]

Mine is 5000, do items scale in price with the more you have?

[karmic coyote]

Nah i mean both of them

[plush lion]

I've hit a weird wall and wanted to know if anyone could help me. I've filled up the hearts of many characters and I've reached a locked state. I've seen videos of people past this giving the large vials of ambrosia but I can't seem to do it. Is there a specific decoration I have to build?

[gray plover]

I haven't played enough to get some of the 500 gem stuff lol

[karmic coyote]

Shame on you

@plush lion you need to fulfill some requirements to unlock the heart, for example you need to buy the contract from the contractor

[gray plover]

It's all a bit RNG heavy, I think

[plush lion]

I got that for "spoiler" character released their contract, and I've bought a bunch of songs, fixed the lounge

oh, wow, rng makes sense. What about the gems, I've been wondering if I'm doing somthing wrong. I need 5k and I'm only getting like 5 to 10 a chamber, with epic posiden buff it's like 8 to 13

[karmic coyote]

Nope that's normal you have to grind for it

[gray plover]

Gem troves are great

Get like 50-60 if I see one

[plush lion]

yeah, dang this game is great but I guess the grind is real. That's a shame, it killed the momentum of the story

[karmic coyote]

That stuff is just decoration, the important stuffs like nectar, ambrosia, titan blood are quite easy to get

[plush lion]

there's more stuff that unlocks content that costs diamonds from what I've found.

[karmic coyote]

I only use it to buy music sheet now

[karmic coyote]

Hera bow with Ares+Artemis duo boon is wack, half of Hades hp gone

[plush lion]

YO that's a HUGE spoiler

[karmic coyote]

i think this channel allows spoiler, but fair

[kind cloud]

"Hera bow with Ares+Artemis duo boon is wack, half of Hades hp gone"

woah, wut? how?

[karmic coyote]

||https://i.imgur.com/dYqSBxm.png||

[kind cloud]

so hunting blades took half of hades health on just 1 cast? or was it all 4 at once?

[karmic coyote]

all 4 at once, with a bit of help from Ares call

1 would be too op

[kind cloud]

ah, that makes sense

[karmic coyote]

Hera bow+Ares cast seems not as strong as Aphrodite or Dionysus cast but with hunting blades it easily becomes the most damaging

[kind cloud]

i havent played with hera bow, will try that now...

[pastel jolt]

spoilers are indeed allowed in this channel, or else talking about the final boss in any detail would be much harder

[karmic coyote]

yeah it didn't seem that good for me at first too but someone has enlighten me about its power

[versed ibex]

How does one use casts effectively? they always seemed really slow when I was testing them out (but I just started, and I haven't upgraded the cast or played much with it)

[gloomy scroll]

You really have to get used to it, it’s generally not something you use right up close unless you have certain boons modifying it. Once you get the extra ones and figure it out, you’ll see how it’s used.

[icy edge]

So uh, Zagreus sword, some 20 stacks on lvl3 plume, hermes epic movement speed boon and a rare drift dash boon... plus charon's well movement item

I am become nyoom.

[karmic coyote]

you have become lightning mcqueen

[gloomy scroll]

That sounds.... terrifying

[fickle hull]

Any of you cool kids, I'm just now jumping back in the game, and I have a question. When can I start upgrading weapons? I got lucky in hell mode and made it all the way to Styx on the 2nd try so I have some upgrade materials. Is it gated by the renovator or a arbitrary number of runs?

Stepping away, please ping me with the answer. Much love 🙂

[mild crag]

@fickle hull Unlock all the weapons and do another run win or lose and it should be available

[fickle hull]

Thank you! I had just bought them! Time to go take a knee

[turbid needle]

um hello, I joined just to check if the bug with Hera Bow+relentless barrage was known

a quick search doesn't seem to return anything, so to be brief: if you have the hera bow and get the relentless barrage update, it seems to only fire one cast per shot

the other casts have to be reloaded into teh bow to fire them again, but the cast indicator stays at 0 (they can still be loaded despite this)

the expected behavior is that they would all fire on the first shot like normal

[gloomy scroll]

is my first response regardless of if it has been seen, but I can recall some wacky things with the cast # indicator and the Hera bow

[dusky hull]

What kind of good Aphrodite's boons are there, besides the healing one? The rest I've found so far are the ones that apply weak, and they're so-so.

[mild crag]

The ones which apply weak are good

They have the highest flat damage bonus of any boon and weak is a strong debuff

[dusky hull]

I mean, a debuff that implies you taking damage isn't really good IMO.

[mild crag]

It's useful for a few reasons

[dusky hull]

Things like Hermes' dodge is good, tho.

[mild crag]

If you have Privileged Status unlocked on the mirror for example

Er I think it's called

The one which makes enemies affected by two debuffs more susceptible to damage

Weak is the longest lasting debuff so it's very useful

[dusky hull]

Is weak a curse status?

[mild crag]

Also has the +5 second duration boon

Yes

[dusky hull]

Ok, gotcha.

[mild crag]

Additionally if you have a weakness boon

You can get sweet surrender from aphrodite

Which makes weak enemies take more damage

If you take Dionysis posion as well

You can get their duo boon which makes poison stack to 10 on weak enemies

Which with a fast attacking weapon like the rail or chiron bow

Makes for what I believe to be one of the highest dps combos in the game

She also has the one which makes you resist damage

[dusky hull]

[mild crag]

It's easier to pick out which aphrodite boons aren't good tbh

And that would be her call

Was only useful to cheese bosses and skip phases but they patched that out

As for the other not great ones is the revenge one which inflicts weak when you take damage

Her dash is not real great

And her poseiden duo is kinda lame

[vivid crag]

https://imgur.com/a/KvRCZZu

Finally got my first Victory on my 22nd run :')
I feel like this took me quite a bit longer than the average person haha

Vicious Cycle is insane on a Blade Rift Cast Build

actually makes the Cast Level Upgrade (+1 per level) seem a bit odd when this stacks into infinity like this

[gilded eagle]

Congrats on first victory, that boon is indeed very strong

[vivid crag]

Also correct me if I'm wrong - but I feel like there is no downside to picking the Blade Rift Call above any other one

It's the most consistent damage wise and very save to use

[candid merlin]

Okay okay pro tip: if dash attack +100% seems attractive to you then don't take it

Just did a run on a bow with +300% overall dash attack and it was crap D:

[vivid crag]

ouw D:

[candid merlin]

Yeah at least I made it to the final boss

[vivid crag]

why's that tho? bc of how u spawn in midst of the enemy once the call is over?

[gilded eagle]

blade rift call is nice, but you can find a lot more damage with other gods in my opinion

[candid merlin]

I think dash attack deals less dmg overall

When I had +100% dash attack because of epic artemis dash boon, my dash powershot was doing like 10~15 dmg more than my regular powershot

So 110 instead of 95 or something

[vivid crag]

There might be more potential with others, but I feel like they require some more setup to be the most effective while Blade Rift is on its own

Also I can't by my life find a good use for 70% of the Athena Boons

compared to other gods i mean

[gilded eagle]

athena dash is very strong with reflect

[vivid crag]

yeah, that's one of the 30% I did like

[gilded eagle]

if you want an easy set up, go with athena dash and ares doom attack

the combo boon makes you do unrealistic damage

[vivid crag]

Might attempt that next time I come across it thx :)

[gilded eagle]

game will become a lot easier when you learn strong combos, then you can take advantage of god's trinkets

[candid merlin]

Is it me or are Zeu's lighting boons kinda bad?

[mild crag]

It's not just you

[candid merlin]

Ayy

[mild crag]

Lighting attack is sorta okay on the rail

[karmic coyote]

wow savage

[mild crag]

But the rest are rarely useful

[karmic coyote]

it's OP on the rail, not ok

[mild crag]

It's okay cause it doesn't scale that well

Very good early and mid game though

[karmic coyote]

i would destroy you with fact and logic but since you're also a Hestia believer i'll let this one slide

[mild crag]

[karmic coyote]

Railgun + Lightning + Artemis support fire = easy game

[candid merlin]

How could that help you with bosses

Wouldn't the dmg be too low?

Well it's time for a railgun run for me

[karmic coyote]

lightning raining down and dozens of arrow aiming at the boss, i would say it's really good

[mild crag]

It's pretty good yeah

Poison hits better dps than that however

[candid merlin]

Railgun doesn't have dash attack right?

[mild crag]

It does

But it's just like a normal shot

[candid merlin]

Huh what's the difference

[mild crag]

Sorta resets the fire rate

So after dashing you fire two quickly

And the first one counts as a dash attack

pair Artemis dash with hestia for guaranteed like 300 damage shot

[karmic coyote]

did someone mention Hestia, oh wait it's you

[mild crag]

IT IS I

[candid merlin]

Is Hestia only a reference to the railgun mod?

[mild crag]

Yes

Coincidence is also cute anime

[candid merlin]

Huh

[mild crag]

But if I ever make a video I'll plaster her all over it for the anime value

[candid merlin]

Hmm is doom on railgun attack any good?

I feel like it'll be wasted

[gilded eagle]

id pay for a hades anime

[small girder]

Hades VN

[gilded eagle]

doom is okay on rail, but not great

[candid merlin]

Eh I'll get the cast then

[mild crag]

Doom is good on rail special

But not the attack

Generally doom works best on slow AoEs

[gilded eagle]

rail is fast that it just synergixzes better with other boons

[mild crag]

Dionysis attack is ya boi

I've been liking athena attack on rail too tbh

Especially with exposed

[karmic coyote]

Aphrodite cast is probably the best in burst damage

[mild crag]

Does it hit harder that Festive Fog?

I think fog might just be a little stronger

Damage wise

[valid stone]

Developers, JUST IDITE NAHUI SO SVOEY ZABAGOVANOY HUYNEY, NICE ZAKRILY FEEDBACK BLYAT

[gilded eagle]

was that a stroke? do i call 911?

[karmic coyote]

yeah i guess it's a little more damaging, though Aphrodite cast looks funnier to me

[mild crag]

I do love aphrodite cast

Is that a pun

Get it hehe

Love

[karmic coyote]

epic pun, i must ask you to leave now

[mild crag]

Aphrodite

Hehe

Man all this wining about a pun who are you Dionysis

Hehe

[karmic coyote]

stop or i'll have to confiscate your Hestia believer license

[mild crag]

[karmic coyote]

yeah that's right 🚓

[mild crag]

[karmic coyote]

also too bad Aphrodite cast doesn't have duo boon, Ares and Dio cast both have it

[mild crag]

What would it do?

Applying weak for low tolerance and the critical one counts as sort of a duo boon hey

[karmic coyote]

oh right right forgot about that, but lightning purple mist and homing flying chainsaw are way cooler

[mild crag]

Not false

Anyway I'm off to bed nini frens

[karmic coyote]

see ya alligator

[carmine raven]

is there any tip to use Fated Authority?

[candid merlin]

Never used it

[copper berry]

Use it to reroll for gods you want.

Or resources you need

When you reroll doors with gold laurels, the gods you can get come in pairs based on the original god you rolled from (imagine it being related to the duo boons). So for example, if you have a door with Aphrodite, you can reroll into Ares or Artemis.

[solid cairn]

Overpriced

Should be less keys

[copper berry]

Yeah it is meant as a resource sink after you have unlocked everything else.

[solid cairn]

Rip I could have gotten increased chance for rare and epic boons with that

Which are much more useful

Also I like that the most important ones are easy to get

Like health on room clear

And deep pockets and thick skin aren’t too pricy

[carmine raven]

@copper berry thanks, that's info what I want to know

especially about being related to the duo boons

[hexed pine]

Note that rerolls of gods don't always give you other gods

I just turned Ares into a health boost

[copper berry]

Correct. You only guarantee rerolling into another god when rerolling on a room that only gives a boon as a reward, i.e. mini-bosses.

[zealous spade]

When can one use Ambrosia?

[karmic coyote]

there are only 4 people whom you can give Ambrosia to atm ||Sisyphus, Meg, Thanatos and Skelly||

[native ether]

Ambrosia can only be used (atm) as a gift for 4 characters once you've maxed out their hearts (from nectar that is)

[zealous spade]

Thanks for the info guys

If they are not accepting gifts from nectar anymore? Does that mean I just need to talk to them per run?

[opal hatch]

ye

u can give one per

[karmic coyote]

depends, you need to fulfill some requirements before being able to give them Ambrosia

[gloomy scroll]

sooooo I wantd to try out hunting blades..

and got it on chamber 8

this is gonna be fun

[subtle shale]

Yesterday I discovered the magic of Ares/Aphro/Dio in one run

got all of the Duo boons for them and it turned me into a DoT machine

[hexed pine]

Is there any way to increase NPC encounter chance? I've done six runs in a row with no Sisyphus or Patroclus encounters now.

[gray oxide]

@hexed pine fated authority can help I think, otherwise I don't think so

Perhaps not skipping hammers also, but most people don't

[slow smelt]

heya, what do you guys build shield with?

i've being trying zeus aspect with dionisyus boons to spam poison, but unsure about everything else

[meager mica]

i like it with Artemis

Dash attack spamming

[crimson sundial]

Ares/Athena duo boon is good with shield (and most things). Put doom on special, Athena dash to insta proc doom. Throw shield, dash through things. Back and forth.

Could just be doom on attack I suppose, but I think about it with the explosive catch hammer upgrade.

[cold grove]

Which aspect is best for exag

i think eris might be good but idk

[meager mica]

yeah Eris is pretty nice

Hestia isn't so good when you have lucky Hammers

[turbid needle]

Explosive Return doesn't proc boon effects, just the damage increase.

It can't crit off Deadly Flourish, doesn't set Sick/Weak/Doom, and doesn't Deflect or summon lightning.

[atomic panther]

Which is why you stack Aphrodite on it, since she's got the highest special damage modifier

[turbid needle]

I suppose if you're running Zag Aspect.

[atomic panther]

With Zeus aspect it becomes 88 damage per tick

[turbid needle]

Oh, wow.

[atomic panther]

*Zeus aspect and epic Passion Flourish

That's not even Explosive Return, that's just the shield throw

[turbid needle]

That's not bad.

[atomic panther]

Zeus Aspect is really good

[gloomy scroll]

hey can you turn god mode on and off

[turbid needle]

It's in the pause menu. Might be in a submenu, I don't remember off the top of my head.

[storm canyon]

ay whats up new player here. Does the damage from broaches like Pierced Butterfly stick around if you select another broach on the next floor or is the bonus permanent?