h1-builds-and-combat

[tall crypt]

it's just a worse exagryph

[turbid needle]

It works differently.

That being said, Chiron is bad at crowd control, so you don't want it for 32 Heat.

[turbid arch]

Exagryph does seem superior when it comes to damaging multiple enemies.

[tall crypt]

single enemy too

[autumn bough]

I hate how Poseidon boons don’t really work in boss fights.

[tall crypt]

just use 3rd aspect

150 dmg shot melts

[floral scarab]

Yeah, Poseidon and slow effects don't really do much to bosses. It's a shame that CC's so great everywhere else

But it's probably a good thing so that you can't stunlock boss-battles

[tall crypt]

also, I think that bow 3rd aspect is broken
I mean, sometimes bs just disappears or stucks only 1 and not 3 in the enemy
then sometimes I will have like 2 in the enemy and 2 lying around

[turbid needle]

You actually can lock down bosses with Charm.

[floral scarab]

I'll have to try that at some point

[tall crypt]

is weak reapplied or just extended when you hit enemy?

I mean, can you actually stunlock enemies?

[turbid needle]

Not bosses, but small enemies can be stunlocked if they don't have armor.

[tall crypt]

with 2nd bow aspect, or infinite ammo exagryph I guess

[shy nexus]

Anything with knockback + wall can stunlock

If no armor

[turbid needle]

But with a rapid attack rate on a Weak-applier you can keep even bosses locked down with Charm.

[tall crypt]

I am talking about bosses

[turbid arch]

That sounds broken!

[shy nexus]

Bosses locked down is tough.

[turbid needle]

Yes, Charm will lock down bosses.

You can not stun bosses.

[tall crypt]

is there even stun mechanic?

fog is the closest I think

[turbid needle]

It's probably easiest with Heartbreak Strike and the sword or shield (or Infinity Chamber Rail, but that's kinda wasting the Rail's DPS potential).

No, just staggering enemies.

[floral scarab]

There is a stun mechanic, i think; but i was more referring to pinning them to a corner so they can't move; lock them in a recovering animation while you whittle them away. SGG probably made sure you can't do that though

[turbid arch]

I don't think I ever saw a recovering animation from Meg.

Or does her having a shield count?

[floral scarab]

I'd have to look, but i think most of the bosses just ignore repeated stuns/can't be interrupted once they start an attack animation

[turbid needle]

Bosses cannot be stunlocked.

Regular enemies can, as long as they don't have armor.

[shy nexus]

By the looks of it, Invulns are there when you meet a too high of a damage treshold, to stop you from nuking them down.

Discount Hydra.

[turbid needle]

The only way to stunlock bosses is to use Charm.

[native ether]

Invulnerable Shields mark boss transition phases

and also to prevent insane one shots yeah

[turbid needle]

Hang on, lemme grab my Aphrodite video.

[shy nexus]

cough Aphrodite's call. cough.

2,5k damage.

My most annoying moment so far was having the call projectile hit Theseus on his shield and just get blocked.

[native ether]

that's a solid oof

[turbid needle]

You'd think YouTube would let me view my own private videos.

[tall crypt]

artemis call is stronger though

[native ether]

not unless you're logged in id imagine though

[floral scarab]

Theseus makes me chuckle at the beginning of every fight. Zag's like "can we fight already?" and Theseus always has a monologue

[native ether]

artemis call is stronger though
This is interesting cause I'd actually view Artemis' call as the weakest one in the game.

[turbid needle]

Nah, Greater Call is a great tool.

[tall crypt]

well, it just has more dmg then any other call

[burnt rune]

I really dislike Aphro's call

[turbid needle]

Not as good as Zeus or Dio, but up there.

[native ether]

The best 3 in the game in my opinion are Zeus Ares and Dionysus

[turbid needle]

Ares is only up there if you have Second Wind.

[shy nexus]

Sorry. Cheesy as heck.

[turbid needle]

Otherwise everything can outrun you.

[burnt rune]

though I feel the worse one is Athena

[shy nexus]

Ares is like Poseidon panic button + tons of damage.

[tall crypt]

athena is bad, yeah

[floral scarab]

Agreed @burnt rune Athena's is just....bounce projectiles and invuln for a really short bit

[tall crypt]

her call is only useful in hades fight

[native ether]

Zeus and Dio have the highest overall damage and they're AoE.

Ares got massively buffed in this patch to do so much more damage and it makes you invulnerable while using it.

Athena is an interesting one. It charges fast so its kinda like a block button, but I'd say its too hard to feasibly use.

Artemis' does damage but its just single target and not as much tbh

[burnt rune]

Also, Ares Cast + buffs for extra hits/homing/etc and the Zeus buff for more call gauge per damage is hilarious
Great Calls every minute or something

[floral scarab]

Even then, Ares/Posideon's calls seem like upgraded versions of Athena's

[turbid arch]

@turbid needle Are you on YT? Can I see your channel?

[burnt rune]

^

[tall crypt]

btw, I think ares call + his legendary must be the most dmg in one call

[burnt rune]

Ares call > Athena call

[shy nexus]

Mostly everyone > Athena call

[turbid needle]

I don't upload videos normally. I've got one video of me burning down Hades with Merciful End, a few Nuclear Throne and Isaac videos, and then some private videos I'm having trouble finding.

[shy nexus]

I just dislike Poseidons call as I always get stuck on the clipping.

[burnt rune]

Poseidon is weird

[shy nexus]

Some random corner messing me up.

[turbid needle]

Poseidon's Call is good damage in Tartarus.

[burnt rune]

wish I could control it with dashes

[turbid needle]

It doesn't scale well, though.

[native ether]

Athena's has a niche but I just don't think its one people look for in a call. I usually look for lots of damage in calls. Problem is I remember when it used to last twice as long and it was the defacto best call cause it was a free invulnerability button in the final boss fight.

[tall crypt]

Ares call > Athena call
Not always correct
If you have a lot of dps, then athena call is better

[native ether]

you can never have enough damage :kappa:

[turbid arch]

I am probably just bad, but Athena seems to get me hit more.

[shy nexus]

Ares is usually, most of the time, the safer and more damaging choice.

[turbid needle]

Unless you're running Eris Rail, then you can have enough damage.

[tall crypt]

but if you actually just want to dodge a phase or something, then there is ares call, it is just better in that way

[burnt rune]

dunno, athena doesn't last long, ends suddenly, if I want a panic don't hit me button, I would go for ares

[shy nexus]

Plus easy nuking of bosses.

And safe nuking too.

[tall crypt]

does every call charge at the same rate?

[shy nexus]

Esp. Hydra.

[turbid needle]

Yes.

[native ether]

I believe so yes

[tall crypt]

I think it can be balanced around charge rate

[burnt rune]

that's for sure

[native ether]

There's no such thing as "too much damage" in Hades mainly because the more damage you have the faster fights end and the faster fights end, the less time you spend taking damage.

[tall crypt]

you can make bad calls charge faster

[turbid needle]

I didn't say "too much" I said "enough".

[mild crag]

They charge at the same rate but some have 6 sections and some have 4

[tall crypt]

no call has 6 sections though?

[mild crag]

Er

[turbid needle]

Athena's.

[native ether]

Artemis does I believe?

[turbid needle]

Artemis is five.

[burnt rune]

anyway
freaking Ares
I'm only missing his duos with Athena and Aphrodite pls RNGesus

[mild crag]

Yeah that

Wasnt sure of the exact numbers

[tall crypt]

hmm, never noticed it

[native ether]

its 100 points for a max call, the smaller amounts change based on the god (most are 4 sections or 25 pts per lesser call, Artemis is 5 (20 pts), Athena is 6 (whatever 100/6 rounded nicely is))

[tall crypt]

that makes sense then

[burnt rune]

also, Athena's "small" call seems useless unless you are really out of dashes and going to die on the last second

great call at least lasts a couple seconds

[tall crypt]

although, I think artemis single bar call is easily the worst one in the game

it is literally worse than 1 exagryph hit

[native ether]

Its good if say you need 1 more second to get behind cover or out of an AoE. But in general I'd just take damage on my call since I find the amount of damage some calls offer is ridiculous

[turbid arch]

@tall crypt Doesn't Artemis have like 100 damage or so per hit?

[tall crypt]

yes

[turbid needle]

Not everyone will be running maxed Hestia Aspect.

Frankly, Hestia is completely outclassed by Eris.

[tall crypt]

it can crit though

[native ether]

^ this, Eris allows for much more insane builds although Hestia is good.

[turbid needle]

It's a cool gimmick.

[tall crypt]

but it is still bad, imo

[turbid needle]

Artemis' Aid is bad in single bars and one of the strongest with a full charge.

[tall crypt]

what is eris again?

[native ether]

Absorb your Special Blast, do increased damage (on everything from all sources) for 8 seconds.

[turbid needle]

60% extra damage on all sources for 8 seconds after absorbing Special.

[native ether]

Try Eris with a Poison build or with Zeus attack and watch as you have put in like zero effort to have like 200 dps a second :p

[tall crypt]

I find it bad, didn't try it maxed out though

you almost never shoot at your feet

[native ether]

I shoot at an enemy and dash to it

[turbid needle]

That's why you make the very small adjustment to hit yourself with a Special every 8 seconds.

[tall crypt]

its an 8 second buff?

[native ether]

I place it where I want to be, not where I currently am. Requires a bit of forethought to use it effectively but its great, especially with some of the rail upgrades like Triple Bomb, or Spread Fire/Explosive Fire

[turbid needle]

Pear, only 200 DPS a second? Please, a good Eris build is pushing at least 1k.

[tall crypt]

ok, maybe it's not that bad
I still like Hestia though

[turbid needle]

That's totally fine!

[native ether]

200 dps with no effort (and thats assuming bad rolls, like no low tolerance) I can definitely push higher given a couple lucky swings

[turbid needle]

You should play with whatever you like.

[tall crypt]

had a run with 1k hits, that was fun

[native ether]

Eris with something like this if you get lucky enough for it is insane

• Spread Fire and Explosive Fire (Attack Poison)
• Aphrodite Special
• Dionysus Cast
• Aphrodite Dash (makes easy to apply Weak)
• Zeus Wrath
• Low Tolerance
• Scintillating Feast
• Black Out if you're lucky

Thunderdome + Super Stacks... just throw out a bunch of damage and walk around the room as everything dies and nothing can touch you. Its pretty great.

(I heard one person call the Scintillating Feast clouds the Thunderdome and I refuse to now call them anything else)

[turbid needle]

...Yeah, I'm calling it that now, too.

Once had six Thunderdomes, Flurry Cast, and Black Out, so I just surrounded Hades in Festive Fog and then went to work.

[floral scarab]

Is there a list of all of the possible boons? cuz it'd make things easier for newer players to know what's available/possible

[native ether]

Eris with Hunting Blades is also nuts.

The wiki page for each god should have all the boons for that god. There's a separate wiki page for duo boons.

[turbid needle]

Eris with Hunting Blades and a full lightning/poison suite is the strongest possible build, change my mind.

[floral scarab]

excellent

[tall crypt]

I hate the fact, that you actually have to grind for like 100 hours to get everything

from which heat hades drops diamonds?

[turbid needle]

If you're grinding out everything, including stuff you don't plan on using for fun, I don't think it's an issue.

Hydra drops diamonds, no Hades.

Starting with one at 0 and then another for every point of Heat you add past that.

[native ether]

Its very possible they arent quite fully up to date. Lots of us who update the wiki have been super busy as of late.

[tall crypt]

I think Hades drops diamonds on high heat

[native ether]

Nope, only Titan Blood. Diamonds can be purchased in the Styx Costco Mega Mart though (Charon's final shop)

[turbid needle]

There's a diamond you can buy in the Styx shop, but Hades drops Titan Blood.

[tall crypt]

maybe I saw old video

[native ether]

Before this update, yeah that was the case, bounties were randomized

[turbid needle]

Yeah, he used to.

[tall crypt]

oh, ok

[native ether]

If you find anything that's not updated on the wiki btw, please feel free to update it! Lots of info is still missing (like aspects for some of the weapons)

[floral scarab]

will do if I find a gap...but right now, there's too many gaps in my own knowledge.

[tall crypt]

wiki seems extremely outdated

[turbid needle]

It is.

[native ether]

some parts are, we've just gotten super busy

I've been updating a lot of biome pages to bring them all more up to standard. Need to update Styx's again, since Hammers no longer spawn in the Styx Mega Mart

[floral scarab]

lol. coulda fooled me. It's great for new players

[native ether]

Also need to redo the new player guide. That is imo especially outdated

[floral scarab]

*support fire is probably still my favorite boon on the railgun. so many seeking arrows

[native ether]

Support Fire is busted on the rail im so happy its no longer the artemis legendary

[floral scarab]

Tbh, I think it's better than the legendary is...unless you've got a cast build

[turbid needle]

There's a lot of Legendaries that aren't better than other boons in a given build.

[strong verge]

I only really use the legendary with the Ares Duo boon.

[turbid needle]

Now, if you have Ares' and Artemis' Legendaries and their Duo...

[strong verge]

^

I've had that before.

Everything melted.

[native ether]

We also need to really rework the front page of the wiki imo. I don't know who has the permissions for doing that, might request whoever does for the permissions to change stuff

[turbid needle]

10M% plays the game for you, I love it.

[strong verge]

So, is averaging one win for every six losses considered good if I can consistently get to Elysium/Styx before running out of steam?

Or wait.

One win out of every six 'runs'.

Sorry.

[native ether]

with 0 heat I win pretty much every run, but I've got about 100 hours of game experience under my belt

[strong verge]

This is also with heat on, mind.

[native ether]

As you're still learning the game, I'd say that's a decent win rate

[tall crypt]

depends on heat

[native ether]

Yeah that question is largely dependent on what Pact modifiers you're using

Some are harder than others, but once you get up to I'd say 10-15 you'll notice the game be significantly more challenging

[strong verge]

Yeah.

[floral scarab]

lol. better than I'm doing; I'm on run 25 without a win. getting close though

[tall crypt]

real men run on 32 heat only

they don't win though

[strong verge]

I went through with combinations of all of them. No healing was actually a lot of fun.

[turbid needle]

~~unless you just max out Extreme Measures and Tight Deadline ~~

[small girder]

Let's say you have 15% crit on attack from an Artemis boon and 50% on marked enemies as well as 4% crit on anything. When you hit a marked enemy with an attack, how much is the crit chance?

[turbid needle]

I'm skeptical of this supposed 32 Heat clear.

69%, Terraplant.

[tall crypt]

why?

I still think is not that hard

I still think it is not that hard

[turbid needle]

Because I know the guy who posted it and I don't think he's good enough to beat 32 Heat, in addition to the very tiny cropped screenshot.

Show me your 32 Heat clear screen, then.

I can't beat it.

[small girder]

So all buffs are additive, nice.

[tall crypt]

I thought that like every other long time player got it

[turbid needle]

A lot of people have the third clear from when it was 120 Heat, when there were only three biomes, and other things.

[tall crypt]

I came on with steam release, so I don't know about them old times

[autumn bough]

Wait, why isn't Artemis' call the highest damage? That's literally all it does.

[turbid needle]

It can burst for extremely high damage.

[native ether]

My 60 heat clear (the old system with the old numbers) was a no healing clear

[burnt rune]

Ares never gives me his Aphro nor his Athena duo
this happens
https://i.imgur.com/1K146hF.png

thanks, I guess

[native ether]

60 heat back then is 12 heat today btw. (Divide by 5 to get old Pact numbers to new pact numbers) No healing is a fun twist.

The old statue max, 120, you basically had to play with 600% enemy damage and something like no healing to win. It was a little dumb :p

(Yes there was a time where the pact allowed you to increase enemy damage up to +500% damage)

[turbid needle]

That was great!

I miss that option.

[native ether]

I miss it in some capacity

[gloomy scroll]

it was hilarious

[native ether]

500% was overkill but 200% or even 300% was fun

[turbid needle]

Your 120 clear was on maxed Vicious Torment, right?

And you had a 55% Pierced Butterfly to show for it?

[late basalt]

should I take chaos gate or hammer?

[floral scarab]

imo hammer

I know Chaos lets you skip a fight, but I'd rather have any boon/hammer over the relatively minor long-term buffs he gives.

[mild crag]

Seems like you can never pass up hammer

Idk how I feel about it really

[turbid needle]

You can pass up hammers.

[mild crag]

Really? Feels like they're so good

[turbid needle]

On Chiron I don't see the need to ever get more than Relentless Barrage.

They are good.

But it's not 100% necessary to take.

Except probably on the Rail, that thing needs its upgrades.

[mild crag]

That's true about the bow

But only because the rest of them suck because most come with downsides for some reason

Would like to see fewer downsides

[crude nebula]

rail needs all the help it can get

my least favourite weapon so far

[mild crag]

It's honestly great to hear how polarising certain weapons are because the rail is my favourite

There's not one weapon everybody just loves

[turbid needle]

I think the only exception is the shield.

Everyone acknowledges that it's at-worst-tied-for-best.

[whole plume]

if you get infinte ammo and zeus blessing the rail shredds everything

[turbid needle]

Wait until you max Eris Aspect and do the same.

[mild crag]

Tied for best in what way

Strength?

[turbid needle]

Ease of beating the game, I guess.

It provides a ton of defensive utility that none of the other weapons can provide, letting you dish out more damage longer.

It's definitely not one of the top damage dealers by itself (that'd be rail, sword, or spear), but it doesn't have bad damage by any stretch of the imagination, and it's one of the best weapons at rapidly proccing Merciful End.

[mild crag]

thats fair

im not a big fan of using it since i play more offensively

[ripe iron]

😎

[mild crag]

daily reminder hestia bestia

[floral scarab]

Shield and Rail are my faves. sword is my least. The only one that doesn't get much love (that i've seen in my 2 days here) is the Spear

To me, that says they designed all the weapons well; each has it's niche.

[mild crag]

being a high heat gamer sword is just too unsafe for me

[burnt rune]

I love the spear special

[mild crag]

i love the spear dash attack

[burnt rune]

don't care for normal attack and the charge

[mild crag]

ive actually started to like spear

as long as you can get quick spin

[turbid needle]

Okay, so about the shield and playing offensively: It lets you do that but with more i-frames.

Unless you're charge cheesing, just chain attacks and dash attacks.

Super fast, big AoE, not bad damage.

[whole plume]

i made an absolutely disgusting poisen quickstab spear

[floral scarab]

lol. that's exactly what I do. Stick some Poseidon boons on it, and just slam people into walls

[burnt rune]

rail is super strong but I don't find satisfying to use other than spamming rockets
shield I would use more if the attack didn't feel so weak/uninteresting, since I prefer spear's throw and neither aspect really gels with me

bull rush is amazeballs but also don't feel good to use to me

[turbid needle]

I got Flurry Jab once a while ago and I think it's sick.

But Quick Spin is terrifying.

Shield does have the problem in that basic attack and charge builds are super duper unsexy.

Chaos Aspect is cool, as is Zeus, but what it does best is very plain.

[whole plume]

but you can block all front attacks while charging

[turbid needle]

Yes, that is correct.

[burnt rune]

would like to see shield get a 3 attack string like sword tbh

[cunning yoke]

or two-attack just to make it different

left and right swing or something

or the default swing and a slight rush forward

[burnt rune]

spear technically has a two attack

[mild crag]

ye it improved the spear getting the increasing damage on attacks

[cunning yoke]

fine, one attack to set it ap.. wait

[burnt rune]

haha

[chrome viper]

''Fixed Slothful (Chaos) sometimes causing Zagreus to fail to board the Barge of Death in Asphodel''

huh

[cunning yoke]

well

it is true to its name

so slothful

[floral scarab]

hahaha, i saw that too. such a funny bug. Zag was too slow to miss the party boat

[chrome viper]

I'm really curious on what happened afterwards lol

[grand patrol]

oh dear, has someone missed the bus?

i guess youd just be stuck? jhgfjhfhj

[floral scarab]

Also, props to the Nectar spawning out of bounds. i think that was reported yesterday

[strong verge]

I've got a query about the Zeus Special boon. Is it per use of the special, or instance of damage?

[cunning yoke]

per instance of damage as far as I can tell

because I get a real kick out of zeus shield + zeus special boon

[strong verge]

Ooh, so Chiron Bow + Zeus special should be pretty good too.

[mild crag]

I'm interested as to why people are 👎 my suggestion about the bow upgrades, anybody care to elaborate to me?

[cunning yoke]

I was bummed to find that Artemis' fires-arrow boon doesn't work with instances of damage and only per cast

:(

[gray plover]

@mild crag spam dash-attacking with bow ends up being pretty nice with that boon, imo. there's no reason to charge at that point

[ornate fern]

I really enjoy that that bow hammer upgrade means you can't full charge every time so you end up firing a lot faster for the same damage. it's also a bit more frantic, which is fun

[mild crag]

good points, but you both say "you just don't charge", what's the point of that?

[gray plover]

it's 300% damage right?

[mild crag]

the playstyle will be identical if the damage increase is reduced

but you can full charge instead

yeah 300% damage in an area

[gray plover]

if the charge wasn't slowed, that would be a bit crazy

[mild crag]

I think it can maintain the playstyle you guys like without killing No Choice runs

Right, so the damage bonus should be reduced to compensatet

[ornate fern]

It feels like a risk to charge it more, and i feel that risk/reward assessment is fun to make in the heat of the moment

[gray plover]

if it's reduced it's not worth taking then

[floral scarab]

Kossetu, I get where you're coming from; it's a feels-bad-man to lose any utility on a weapon. But i think the point of most the hammers is to /change/ how weapons are used, not just a simple buff

[gray plover]

if I use the bow normally I'll try to dash into charge attacks. but if I get that then I'm spamming across the map hoping I don't fall into traps

[mild crag]

they don't seem to follow the design philosophy about that on every hammer upgrade, @floral scarab

"power shots deal increased damage"

"special fires more arrows"

they're just buffs

I don't think any upgrade should leave the weapon worse in some regard

unless it's a reasonable change

by that I mean not being able to power shot with flurry shot

maybe that upgrade should add an additional level of charge after the normal power shot

(which goes up to the 300% damage)

[gray plover]

It's moving your delayed damage to an up front burst. It isn't "worse" because of that, it's just different

[mild crag]

The worse-ness comes from the decreased range

[gray plover]

sword has double hit special but no knockback. I wouldn't consider that worse if you wanted more damage

[mild crag]

The double hit also has the downside of reduced area now which makes me dislike it

The knock back removal is reasonable

[gray plover]

ah I just melee with the bow anyway 👀

[mild crag]

Since the second hit won't hit if the first one knocks back

[floral scarab]

It might honestly be down to making it so that nothing gets too OP; If something comes with a massive buff, it does need a nerf to make it "one hammer worth" of upgrades. It is an "unfun" aspect to look at, but it might be how they came to a fun end-result without making it too powerful or too much like other weapons

[mild crag]

well i suppose they havent failed with making the aspect fun since there's people here who find it fun

I still don't like it, but I understand you guys's position now, thank you

[floral scarab]

lol. it's like rockets on the rail gun for me; I hated them the one time i used it because I use that time delayed bomb well. other people love it

[mild crag]

the rockets are an interesting one

i think it's okay

but i like inescapable blast more so i dont take it

[median ridge]

i miss cluster bomb on the rail

[gray plover]

cluster bomb sounds nice 0:

[floral scarab]

lol. i took the rocket after taking the inescapable; worst decision ever

[mild crag]

Whoa

Is it still offered?

[median ridge]

huh that combination kinda sounds like it should be mutually exclusive

[mild crag]

That sounds like a bug

[floral scarab]

mistakes were made. mostly on my end

[mild crag]

Feedback or F10 next time it happens!

[floral scarab]

It still slows enemies in the area where it lands, but obviously might be something I drop in feedback once i finish the game

[mild crag]

Oh when it explodes?

[median ridge]

cluster bomb was a learning curve to handle and aim properly but it was really fun at close range

[floral scarab]

I wouldn't call it a bug; more of a non-bo

[mild crag]

Interesting solution but still doesn't match the text of what it says it does so might be reportable

[gray plover]

there's no video of it

[mild crag]

Def a nonbo giving up instant slow

[floral scarab]

kinda like if you take a posideon aspect on the main attack and knocking people out of your bomb area. Bad idea, but not really a bug

[gray plover]

lol

[mild crag]

i keep making that mistake somehow

[gray plover]

you could always sell it

[mild crag]

"hur hur im gonna get the zeus duo and its gonna be sick"

[floral scarab]

I was key hunting and had a lackluster build on that run, so i didn't bother fixing it

[mild crag]

gotta have charon be confused at your build as he takes you home

[floral scarab]

exactly!

[autumn bough]

I feel like the rail needs very slightly more range, since I always seem to be just out of range.

[gray plover]

sometimes I felt like I was having a decent run, but you just gotta pick that fated choice...

[mild crag]

@autumn bough lemme tell ya bout Hestia Aspect

unbiased account

best aspect

[floral scarab]

Rail seems fine imo; certainly it's served me well.

[mild crag]

so much range!

so much damage!

[burnt rune]

I find the rail range to be quite bigger than it looks haha

[gray plover]

you can always dash closer, the dash attack is nice too

[mild crag]

dash damage increase with hestia!

[gray plover]

👀

[autumn bough]

That seems good

[mild crag]

400-500 non crits

its super gud

join the hestia sect with me fren

[autumn bough]

I kind of want a rail upgrade that makes it a sniper rifle instead of a machine gun or shotgun. But maybe that goes too well with Hestia Aspect.

[mild crag]

there used to be

but they took it out and packed it into hestia aspect instead

[burnt rune]

that's just the bow 👀

[mild crag]

there was one that increased its base damage to 80, increased range and accuracy and reduced clip size to 1

iirc

[autumn bough]

@burnt rune, but the bow doesn't go bang!

[burnt rune]

Explosive shot!

[mild crag]

was my fav but they packed it into hestia aspect so i can have it every run so im happy

Rail explosive shot!

double bang!

[gray plover]

reloading doesn't feel good on controller

[autumn bough]

Rocket launcher

[gray plover]

I don't think I could use that gun

[mild crag]

thats fair

am kb&m gamer

have reload on a mouse button on the side

[autumn bough]

On a side note, I love how there's an animation of reloading the grenade after launching it.

[burnt rune]

looking at the wiki history, there was a dash-reload hammer
that sounds fun o:

[gray plover]

reload is R3 by default which is... gross

dash reload sounds awesome

[autumn bough]

R3 is... push in the stick?

[burnt rune]

yep

[autumn bough]

eww

[burnt rune]

for some reason the icon doesn't show up when detecting a xbox controller either, only a dual shock

so it's just "press to reload"

[mild crag]

R3 to reload

im so sorry console players that you cant experience the unbridled joy of the hestia aspect

[autumn bough]

After seeing a reddit post, I seriously want to see Hestia from Danmachi wielding Exagryph

[gray plover]

you can remap it but it's still a bit uncomfortable

[mild crag]

that's what i think of every time

lol

[autumn bough]

That or replace Zag with The Kid

somehow

Red when you're using the sword

[mild crag]

the gods really didnt catch him when he fell

fell all the way to hell

[autumn bough]

As I said in the discussion channel before, they've come all the way from "gods ain't gonna help you, son" to "gods stop helping my son!"

[mild crag]

lol

when i get my internet (soon i hope) i'll upload some hestia aspect propaganda

[burnt rune]

pls do
I still have no idea how to properly use that, and it's the only rail aspect that feels interesting

[prime berry]

So I got spoiled on the shield gameplay, blocking and the awesome special. What other weapons feel really good once you get some bonuses?

[mild crag]

dare i say hestia aspect rail

[gray plover]

lmao

I like the flurry jab with the spear. If you get any kind of damage boost you shred everything. Maybe on higher heats just standing there isn't so good, though..

[mild crag]

flurry jab works okay on spear on higher heat if you weave in some dash attacks too

[gray plover]

but I did 8 and I just stood there without moving in the last fight and mostly had no issues

[mild crag]

quick spin on the spear is still my favourite though since it makes using your spin not a death sentence against fast enemies

[autumn bough]

Imagine spinning with the Spear

[gray plover]

I spin early on until my prayers are answered and I get jab

[mild crag]

i play hades aspect on spear

so spin

[gray plover]

yeah that was my last unlock. It's nice even if I drop spin later. It doesn't feel like I'm screwing myself.
The special isn't that impressive, imo

[burnt rune]

the only spins I like in this game are from floating blades with red auras

[mild crag]

special is okay since it's basically a guaranteed backstab but

kinda lame to use

[knotty vigil]

So I just unlocked the aspect thing where you upgrade your weapon.
Apparently there is a strong hestia aspect fan here so I guess thats good?

[mild crag]

YES THAT'S ME

[gray plover]

lol

[burnt rune]

double tapping special dabess

put athena and exposed on it

then laugh at theseus throwing his own spear at you

[mild crag]

@knotty vigil Eris Aspect is also okay, which weapon do you enjoy the most so far? Should get an aspect for that

My recommendations for each are
Sword - Nemesis
Spear - Hades
Shield - (none are that good but...) Zeus
Bow - Chiron
Rail - HESTIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[knotty vigil]

So far I got the farthest with the rail and the shield. Bow seems also pretty neat.

Isnt hestia kinda annoying, having to reload manually all the time?

[mild crag]

I have it bounce to my mouse button

its also habit for me

[burnt rune]

my recomendations would go nemesis/zag/either/both/either

[mild crag]

could give chiron a go

probably one of the most fun to use

with a like

sort of obvious playstyle change which isnt hard to get used to

has great potential too especially with the increased special shots hammer upgrade

trying not to be bias towards hestia

[gray plover]

I think the zag bow is better

crit chance 🤷‍♀️

why do you need your special to seek foes when you can point blank hit them with 9 shots

[burnt rune]

it's not as sexy as having one billion homing arrows or making into a magical bazooka

[gray plover]

I don't use cast enough to test out the hera one

[mild crag]

hera is interesting

especially with aphro cast

[gray plover]

idk what the difference is between loading and just using it normally?

damage-wise

[mild crag]

you can load several at a time

[burnt rune]

you can load any amount of them and they all explode on the precise point of impact

so the dio's cast becomes a missile, essentially

[mild crag]

also it gives you the additional effect of the casts dropping faster

[gray plover]

ahh

[burnt rune]

you can also intentionally release the arrow early to make the casts all blast in front of enemies or something like that, for ares or aphrodite's casts

[gray plover]

I don't think the cast damage benefits from timing the charged shot though right? Think I tested it on my boy skelly

[burnt rune]

no

[gray plover]

would be nice if it did, but maybe that'd be op

[burnt rune]

the beautiful thing is getting dio cast on the first room and having over 100dmg arrows from the get go

[knotty vigil]

Thanks for the suggestions ^^
Will see what i can try out with the remaining titan blood I have.

[native ether]

Can someone who has unlocked every ||Legendary Keepsake / Companion|| post the descriptions for each one (feel free to use spoiler tags and ping me). I'd like to write the wiki page for it.

[limpid tapir]

Does Cruel Thrust apply to both Stygian's dash attack and 3rd attack of its combo?

[mild crag]

Cruel Thrust is just the third hit of the combo

@burnt rune the true beautiful thing is picking hestia aspect and having 150 damage shots from the get go

[burnt rune]

but can you reload thrice and triple that 👀

[mild crag]

but then you're out of casts ono

[burnt rune]

no matter

enemy is dead, all casts are back

[mild crag]

does the drop delay reduction reduce the duration of the festive fog?

[blazing mulch]

Nope

It back when the cloud disappear

[mild crag]

the cloud doesnt disappear sooner?

[blazing mulch]

Nope

That could make no sense with an epic boon which reduce damage you get while staying In.

The dislodge effect affect only enemies.

[mild crag]

making em drop faster doesn't make sense with boiling blood either~

[blazing mulch]

If they are not affected then the dislodge effect is not here

It does with specyfic build

There is boon which cause damage when the cast is dislodged

Also allow you to spam more

[mild crag]

ye

i love hera bow with exit wounds

or Poseidon sword

had the dream run with hera once

had a +1 cast chaos boon, with artemis's legendary +3 cast

exit wounds and greater recall to make my casts come back to me

it was great

[vapid pollen]

all the spear upgrade kinda sucks

doesn't feel unique or something you can build around

[blazing mulch]

Heh I can't agree

[mild crag]

quick spin!

hades aspect!

[vapid pollen]

even with quick spin

spin move is still useless

imo

[blazing mulch]

I usually don't use the spin, always take the flurry attack

Zag aspect at full and the 7 bounce with poseidon is nut

[vapid pollen]

flurry dash doesn't make sense either

[mild crag]

Flurry attack is great

[vapid pollen]

with the 7 bounce you don't know where you are gonna dash to

[mild crag]

And I forgot about bounce 7

Well there's your problem

You're using achilles aspect

Also pro tip if you click attack to recall it instead of special you'll pull it back without dashing to it

[vapid pollen]

i just feel spear upgrade doesn't offer a new type of game play

you can always do the spin build or the flurry build with the spear you start with

[mild crag]

when you say upgrade

you mean aspect?

[vapid pollen]

yep

[mild crag]

thats fair then

doesnt change the way you play too much

except maybe hades making uncharged spins better

[turbid needle]

You don't get the damage bonus if you recall the spear instead of dashing to it.

[mild crag]

i'd assumed but i didn't know thenks

was just so you dont get lost after bouncing off 7 dudes

i dont find the damage bonus that useful

[vapid pollen]

most of my spear game is with the quick attack speed build

the one makes you can't spin

[mild crag]

flurry attac

or flurry jab more specifically i think

[autumn bough]

If you have the Hermes boon that auto-grabs bloodstones and the Chaos curse that stops you from picking up bloodstones, which wins?

[turbid needle]

Chaos Curse, but once you can pick them up Hermes' boon will grab them.

[gray plover]

well I tried the hera bow

seemed... ok? idk. I ended up getting crit and triple shot so I was doing ~500 damage. the fog cast couldn't match that output though

[vapid pollen]

hera bow with dionysus zeus duo is insane

[gray plover]

I didn't get a single zeus boon

😦

[mild crag]

i can imagine it'll be really good with ares artemis boon

i was trying to get that but never was able to

[gray plover]

I also didn't get the +4 cast or whatever

I did get a "your cast does a secondary hit" from artemis but you... can't really see what's happening in the fog 👀

[vapid pollen]

did that work?

[mild crag]

the secondary hit one?

pretty sure it does work

[gray plover]

It's too messy in the fog and there's usually a lot of numbers with me shooting too

[mild crag]

scarey fog

[burnt rune]

it does work

[jaunty hollow]

Eurydice's song doesn't loop between voice and instrumental versions ?

[mild crag]

whatcha mean by that

[civic barn]

did they adjust the room icons?

[mild crag]

in welcome to hell yeah

they have like a red up arrow for miniboss encounters

to distinguish between that and regular elite rooms

[civic barn]

no i mean

they added one for extreme measures

this wasn't there yesterday

and some of the resource rooms have the skull icon now too

[mild crag]

oh

haven't played the latest update so ignore me

[full escarp]

How long have you guys been playing hades?

[civic barn]

it's cool i'm just a bit confused; the extreme measures one makes sense, but what's the skull icon on the normal resource (gems, keys etc.) now

[turbid needle]

8 months.

[full escarp]

Same

I just got serious about it tbh

[mild crag]

on and off since it was revealed at the game awards

so that would be 12 months now

[full escarp]

I gotta check when i bought it

[mild crag]

only been playing more regularly recently though

[full escarp]

SAME

[mild crag]

4d of playtime in total i think

[full escarp]

I bought it when it was like $15

It looked fun

@mild crag dang

I think i have a little less than 2 days

But i am just now starting to play it more

[mild crag]

oh im sure there's plenty of people who've played more than me here!

[full escarp]

WOW

Whats your main item?

Or whatever its called

[mild crag]

Hmm?

[full escarp]

[mild crag]

Item?

[full escarp]

What do you prefer to fight with

[mild crag]

You can have one guess

[full escarp]

IDK WHAT THEY ARE CALLED

[mild crag]

Weapon aspects?

[turbid needle]

Weapons.

[full escarp]

What is your main weapon

[mild crag]

Hestia rail kek

[full escarp]

@turbid needle THANK YOU

The rail gun is fun when you get unlimited ammu on it

If i dont get it when i start my escape attempt i just start over tbh

[mild crag]

since i use hestia the unlimted ammo doesnt do anything for me

i reload after every shot

[full escarp]

Hmm

Haven't used it lately the sheild is my main

[mild crag]

Which Aspect do you like?

[full escarp]

The zeus aspect

[mild crag]

o naisu

do you have some favourite boons to use with it?

[full escarp]

THATS ACTUALLY HARD

Heras reflect

[mild crag]

oh Athena's?

i can see that being awesome on the special

floating disc of deflection

[full escarp]

Yeah

I meant athena i was a little side tracked

The one i prefer for my special is when hermes makes it hit enimies and comes back to you faster when you throw it

[mild crag]

The one that speeds it up?

[full escarp]

Pretty much

But it only effects the special for the sheild

I think i don't remember that much cause i dont chose hermes that often when i get the chance i am just saying this from memory

[turbid needle]

Nah, Swift Flourish is great on every weapon.

[full escarp]

Well i mean it is good for every weapon

But do you know what i meant?

Turns out i bought the game 12 January 2019 and not in December 2018

[rotund hedge]

I like ares on Zeus shield because it reapplies

It’s great for that big butterfly ball midboss

[full escarp]

I hate that butterfly boss ill try that out now thank you @rotund hedge

[rotund hedge]

You just have to find the range since butterfly doesn’t really move much so you can focus on popping the eyeballs

[full escarp]

I find popping the eye balls easy its mainly just the enemy spam and butterflies that spawn from the butterfly boss i worry about

[rotund hedge]

That’s my point

It’s hard to pop the eyes and also reasonably dps the boss

At the same time

[full escarp]

But what ares boon do i need and what do you expect me to do? @rotund hedge

[rotund hedge]

with ares boon the zeus shield does a ton of damage

so you park the shield on the butterfly and run around shredding the eyes

[full escarp]

oooooo

So find an ares boon that is specifically for the special for the sheild?

[rotund hedge]

yea basically

[full escarp]

K

[turbid needle]

I remember back in the day when Ares' powers were completely wild. Maybe it still is a thing but there was ways to increase the size of the rifts, which was crazy. I loved it! I hope it still is in there. Guess I'm about to find out! About to play for the first time in a long while.

[full escarp]

YEAH I REMEMBER THAT

When i first started playing ares was my favorite cause of how broken he was at first

But then updates happened

In my opinion ares was taking zeus's spot for the best olympian you could get

[turbid needle]

Ares still has the strongest boons.

[full escarp]

👌

[rotund hedge]

whats the best boon with bow?

on paper it seems like ares since it seems unlikely I'll be applying enough dps

also, chiron or hera?

[full escarp]

I like hera

[late basalt]

When an olympian has a line about giving you something especially powerful, what is the difference in the boons? Rarity?

[full escarp]

For me its preference

[turbid needle]

Rarity, I think.

Anecdotal, but I've always had at least two Epics.

[kind cloud]

ares the beast!

[full escarp]

FACS

His aid his the best out of them all

[turbid needle]

Maybe if you've got Second Wind and Vicious Cycle.

[full escarp]

When i got zeus's aid i thought it was gonna shock all enemies on screen but i soon found out i had to be near them

[native ether]

saw some feedback I wanted to offer opinions on. Don't mind me, just creating conversation :D
Fourth, the fourth realm seems easy. It took me a 4-6 runs to get through each of the first three areas for the first time. Fourth area maybe took me two.
I would agree that its definitely not the hardest biome in the game. I would say that's definitely Elysium but that's more because Elysium is where a run tends to power spike, and initially enemies scale much faster than you get improvements. This means if you're not careful, you can get shredded super easily in Elysium, and then be unable to beat Theseus because you failed to scale and took too much damage early on.

Styx has less of that because a build is coming to its conclusion by the time you beat Theseus (or should be, otherwise you're stumbling into Styx likely down 1-2 death defiances) Although everything in Styx is definitely the most dangerous and the most threatening, there's some differences.

• Environmental damage is everywhere, and although it hurts, its a convenient way to take out enemies.
• Your damage is often at its best here, meaning you can mow down the hordes easily.
• You can run Broken Spearpoint (its seriously the best keepsake in the game for Styx. Don't believe me? Try it and see how much less damage you take there)

I've definitely lost runs to Styx, but usually I can survive Styx enough, but simply surviving Styx isn't enough to win a run. (As I'm about to continue in a different post)

Third, for me, final boss seems significantly harder than everything else in the game. At least with Exagryph, I can get through everything else without losing a DD, but he can go through 4.
This is definitely true with every weapon, and its definitely intentional that the final boss is a huge power spike compared to everything else in the game. This mainly does a couple things:

• Ensures that someone cant barely stumble out of Styx and beat the game (which I think is an overall net positive)
• Ensures that players don't race through Styx as fast as possible just to get to the end, lest they gamble dying to the final boss because they aren't a pushover.
• Encourages you to use your resources much more carefully over an entire run, and improve at the game overall. If the final boss takes out 3 or 4 death defiances, then it encourages the player to get better at the Hydra or Theseus so they don't lose early ones and can save them up for the final encounter.

[upper crystal]

if you buy a kiss of styx when you havent used any revive charges, does it stack?
i also im curious if theres something in the UI that indicates the number of revives you have left, having something more obvious that shows that information would be very nice imo

[glossy plaza]

the final boss is a joke if you have 3+ dashes

imo

[native ether]

You cant buy a Kiss of Styx if your charges are maxxed

same for taking it from Patroclus I believe

[upper crystal]

oh?

[glossy plaza]

you can take it all the same but it doesn't do anything

[upper crystal]

that's a shame

[native ether]

You definitely can't buy Kiss of Styx. Watched a streamer try to buy it and their charges were maxed. Didnt let them.

Pat. might be different

[glossy plaza]

it explicitly states that "replenishes all charges"

[upper crystal]

i know pat increases your charges past your max

[native ether]

Patroclus only replenishes all spent charges (so he can replenish all 3) but he cant give you extra

[upper crystal]

hm

[native ether]

The only thing that can give you an extra charge is the Chaos Legendary

[glossy plaza]

what is pat? did I miss something here?

[native ether]

Patroclus

[glossy plaza]

huh

nvm

[upper crystal]

i had 1 revive unlocked at the time of first meeting pat and he gave me +2 revives

spent all 3 revives during hades fight

[native ether]

That's... probably not intentional lol. He's only supposed to replenish all spent charges.

[upper crystal]

ah

[native ether]

Unless I'm understanding "replenishes all charges" incorrectly

[upper crystal]

it was what made me confused about kiss of styx

[native ether]

But that seems like a bug. If you find Patroclus again, and dont have all 3 charges yet, take it, and if it does it again, F10 report it.

[glossy plaza]

it's not a bug, it's a feature

[upper crystal]

alright, cheers

im not complaining though lol

[native ether]

Kiss of Styx should only replenish one spent charge. You can see your DD charges above your health bar

If they're spent, its an empty circle, if they're active and not used yet, it'll either be a mini zag face, a red blood droplet (for Kiss of Styx) or an Athena Shield (if one of her boons replenished one)

never complain about bugs that give you a win :kappa: but when in doubt if something is acting in a way that seems weird, F10 report it. It sends them some data on your save which helps them figure out what the bug is (and thus solve it faster)

[upper crystal]

aye

[native ether]

thats a lucky bug too, was it the first time you beat the game lol

[upper crystal]

i havent beat the game yet, but it was on like

my 4th run

[native ether]

LUL

yeah that's probably a bug. 99% sure of that being unintentional seeing as the third DD costs 1000 darkness

Chaos can give you an extra DD though, he can offer it as a legendary if you've already taken a Chaos boon that run, might be worth repeated chaos rolls to get it, though from what I can tell its pretty rare.

[upper crystal]

i love the chaos mechanic so fckn much

[native ether]

Chaos is a great mechanic. Especially when you wanna run the game faster. He skips a room which shortens the time it takes to clear, and can offer a mega powerful bonus.

Don't take them in Elysium though please. Never do you want to experience trying to whittle down the Minotaur with only the bow special.

[upper crystal]

lmao i already experienced that

twice

[native ether]

(This happened back at a time where you couldn't see the future rooms from Chaos, meaning you could be dropped into it with literally no idea)

[upper crystal]

damn

[native ether]

yeah I've had runs where I was dropped into the Minotaur with a disabled rail attack and all I was able to use was my unpowered special. That was a feels bad run right there.

[upper crystal]

top tier gameplay

[native ether]

I was offered 3 "you cant attack" boons

and just went "please no minotaur"

didnt even get 1 room before minotaur

[upper crystal]

my condolences to you

[ruby creek]

Question: I cant make the sword work. I actually struggle with melee weapons. Are they super underpowered or am I using them wrong?

I regularly take damage dealing damage. And they dont have any better sustain than the ranged options.

[upper crystal]

time your combos in safe windows, use the nova to ensure a safe attack if you need to.
the thrust really carried the damage of the sword for me, thats my experience

[ruby creek]

So the dash attack?

[upper crystal]

every 3rd swing when you repeatedly hit something

[native ether]

The best way to play with the sword is to use the thrust (the third hit in the primary combo) situationally and use the special as your third hit in your standard combo (in my opinion). The thrust leaves you more exposed, shoves enemies away from you (so you cant stunlock wallop them into oblivion), does less damage than the special, and only hits enemies in front of you. The more you spam the special, you can keep stronger enemies away from you (assuming they're unarmored)

Thrust becomes much better if you take its Hammer addon, which is really strong. Otherwise, look for strong boon combos for the special.

• Artemis on the Special combined with Aphrodite on your attack gives you a way to reduce damage and play more recklessly, as well as leaving you potentially able to find Heart Rend, the Aphro-Artemis duo boon, which increases the damage of your critical effects on weakened enemies.
• Ares on Special, Athena on Attack or Dash. Dash is better cause it gives you huge defensive protection, but also allows you to get Merciful End, the Ares-Athena duo boon, which causes a deflecting attack to instantly trigger an in progress Doom effect, dealing extra combo damage as well.

[upper crystal]

i found the poison upgrade from dio for the sword's regular attack really strong, it allows for a more hit and run strat

[native ether]

For Hammers, my favorites are Double Nova combined with Super Nova. Increased Special Range and Damage never goes wrong. Cruel Thrust is also good, but keep in mind you're more exposed while using it, and Cruel Thrust doesn't affect your Dash Attack.

Poison is in general a very underrated all around strong and safe damage option.

The only thing its really bad on is honestly the bow.

(And its still decent on the special)

[turbid needle]

Nemesis Aspect, World Splitter, Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish.

[ruby creek]

Hmmm so if anyone has played League of Legends here the sword plays like Riven?

I think I've goofed my boons then this run through.

[turbid needle]

Ideally, Super Nova as well as Swift Strike and Flourish, alternate Attack and Special.

[native ether]

My sword play is usually "spam the special button as fast as I can break my finger, with a side of dashing around like a maniac"

[autumn bough]

Chaos has a Legendary? How??

[native ether]

Only appears if you've taken a Chaos boon earlier in the run, and its still a low chance rate.

It also comes with a debuff, so its like "Atrophic Defiance" etc

[autumn bough]

Okay, so it's not a combo boon like everyone else's, then

[native ether]

Yeah no it doesnt require a base boon and then an amplifier to it, or multiple boons that work together

Hermes has legendaries that work the same was as Chaos' too (not the debuff part, the spawn condition part), can only appear on your 2nd (and 3rd if you take it) Hermes boons.

[glossy plaza]

cause that's how Legendary works, only spawn when the prereq are met

they are just Tier 3 boons

[upper crystal]

im sure this has been suggested to death already, but there should be a menu in the pause screen (or just anything really) that shows detailed info on what boons and stuff you have during a run

unless there is and im just blind

its really awkward when i leave a run half finished and come back totally confused

[glossy plaza]

have you try pressing B?

the game tells you that too

you can change the button in the controls

[upper crystal]

oh, i did not realise that

on a similar note, is there any way to view the progress on which weapons ive killed bosses with in the starting area?

[teal wren]

Afaik not until you gain the pact of punishment

[upper crystal]

ah ok

so i just need to git gud

[wind vale]

so - after some discussion yesterday i figured i had to find out when seeds are created

and ive come to the conclusion its already the moment you get out of the pool of blood just after you die from the previous run

since i could not in any way alter what i got for the run no matter what i did in the house(after restoring the backup of my save)

(ofc using a god keepsake switches the god but same thing as always here)

[native ether]

you can see the bounty information for weapons in the main map in between biomes as well, as you "travel" up to the next floor

[glossy plaza]

@wind vale well that's kinda obvious no? it's only generated when you get out of the pool, everything happens after including dialogues are all fixed at that point

using god specific keepsakes are just altering what gold rewards that would be next

[unkempt pagoda]

middle management barge of death gives me flashbacks to old murderboat

not sure if that's a bad or good thing

[median ridge]

fun question: what’s the funniest bug in this game that anyone has gotten? my favorite is when chariots spawned in skelly’s room (as passive targets much like skelly) and then spawned in the first tartarus chamber before i got my first boon and beat the heck out of me

[frosty pier]

If you Die frames after acitivating Poseidon's call (yes you can do that), DD animation plays out and Zag gets pinballed across the room.

[ruby creek]

Whats a solid keepsake to just use without thinking about it? So far I've been doing the one that gives health when you get darkness adn its a solid sustain choice. Any otehrs I should look out for?

[mild crag]

If you're good at not getting hit

Pierced Butterfly

[ruby creek]

And if Im good at getting hit?

[mild crag]

The broken spearhead

The one that makes you take less damage from the front I think it is

[tall crypt]

bracer

[mild crag]

That one

Also

Cerberus collar

+50 max hp flat

Hypnos coin purse one which makes you start with some coins (swap after Tartarus)

[floral scarab]

I like the one that gives you brief invuln after getting hit. at least in mobs, it helps out a ton

[civic barn]

that would be the broken speartip, yes

[native ether]

In general the best keepsake especially for new players?
Dog Collar. Dog Collar is by far the nicest crutch keepsake in the game. Up to +50 Max Health will help you get more accustomed to lots of the game.

Once you max Thick Skin, I would look for getting your hands on Broken Spearpoint as fast as possible. You have to get a bit lucky and make it to Elysium enough times to give Patroclus a gift, but its super worth it. Broken Spearpoint is in my opinion the best keepsake in the game, makes Styx so much easier, and definitely worth getting.

Other good defensive keepsakes are:

• Eurydice's (shield against the first couple hits from a boss)
• Myrmidon Bracer (take less damage while facing an enemy, more while facing away from them/from behind. Offers lots of damage resistance)
• Lucky Tooth (its a free death defiance. Need I say more?)

And in general:

• Coin Purse lets you easily have the resources to get more powerful at a shop. Its quite good.
• God Keepsakes let you be more picky and choosy about what your build looks like.
• Cosmic Egg lets you play around with Chaos gates way more, especially lets you take more risks for potentially more great bonuses.
• Hourglass is situational but you can get a Hydralite to last half a biome instead of 3 chambers with it, so definitely can be amazing.

[fervent mural]

any advice on what i should use my titan blood? i see that i can use it on the mirror but it can also upgrade my weapons. but i already got all 5 i can get and dont know how to get more

[native ether]

You shouldn't be able to use it on the mirror unless they changed that this patch?

[mild crag]

Pierced Butterfly is the best keepsake in the game

[civic barn]

i don't think you can use titan blood on the mirror

it should be exclusively for weapons right now, right?

[mild crag]

Even after they nerfed it

[native ether]

Yeah that's what I thought

[fervent mural]

ohh

ok it jsut shows up on the mirror screen thats why i thought i can use it there

[median ridge]

lucky tooth is great because it functionally gives you an extra death defiance

[civic barn]

but in terms of weapons, that's really up to you, i feel. There's definitely some weapons that appear stronger, but i end up having a better time with on another aspect

[native ether]

Pierced Butterfly is situationally the best keepsake in the game. Its a "win more" keepsake.

Its amazing if you're god tier at the game, but its not good to help you get better at the game or to increase your general survivability throughout the game (which is what I prefer using my keepsake for, as the game gives me more than enough broken offensive options)

[wind vale]

one thing you havent mentioned(or i cant see) is skellys keepsake - its really great for new players ans so easy to get

[mild crag]

I can see how good the broken spear is

[fervent mural]

i like the bone hourglass. getting that damage buff is so nice

[mild crag]

But I'm too much of a try hard to take anything but butterfly

[native ether]

Skelly's Keepsake is much better now considering the health bonus is the max of your starting HP at level 1 now. I'll definitely add that.

[blazing mulch]

is the boat level on esphodel caunted as elite room ?

[floral scarab]

I definitely used Skelly's on my first times through the final boss

[native ether]

Murderboat is counted as an elite room for the purpose of Middle Management

[mild crag]

Yes it is

[blazing mulch]

https://imgur.com/oTqjfJv what happen when its double of elites....

[unkempt pagoda]

old murderboat showing its legacy

strangely beautiful

[native ether]

its 12:30, rip me.
Butterfly is also awful on some weapons. (Namely, ever tried rail attack butterfly, you'll understand how hopelessly futile the thing feels giving you +3 damage per bullet)

[frosty pier]

Let me run on lava all the way

[mild crag]

I play rail butterfly

But hestia

So

[floral scarab]

All aboard the party boat! (even the slowed Zag now)

[native ether]

yeah with Hestia its not bad, in general though its a big feels bad

the problem with the butterfly is i dont need its damage so I dont take it lol, sure its great but its often better to effectively cancel out Snakestone, Poison, and final boss laser/multihit/shockwave damage entirely.

[unkempt pagoda]

for the bug question: there was one time where the chaos curse that slowed zag’s movement speed made it so the murderboat left him behind

effectively soft locking the game

[native ether]

I had no idea about that until today and its hilarious

[floral scarab]

according to today's patch notes, yes

[unkempt pagoda]

huh

i remember them fixing that in a previous patch as well

though that was old asphodel as well so

[mild crag]

Bugs have a way of coming back in software

When the fix you thought was the fix was not a fix

[floral scarab]

ah the life of programming

[native ether]

especially since Asphodel's art has been redone and thus geometry probably changed

[wind vale]

lets hope its commented now - //no idea what this does but somehow it fixes murderboat - do not remove

[woeful sage]

Sorry to whip-change the subject, but does anyone else feel like the Spear's dash-after-throw attack (The second aspect?) isn't quite as responsive as it could be?

[wind vale]

im happy with it

but yea i dont feel like you can use it as an escape unless you already have the spear thrown somewhere

(which is possible with cast builds - thats what i use it for)

[woeful sage]

Like, I kind of wish I could sort of queue up commands at least as far as a throw into a return.

Like, if I press 'Attack' as it's travelling out it'll return as soon as it's ready

[wind vale]

yea i guess i never really tried that

[woeful sage]

Right now it feels like I need to wait for it to travel its whole distance before it'll respond to returning or dashing button presses.

[harsh aspen]

First clear with Eternal Spear. Managed to snap my final build.

https://imgur.com/a/zPSwQ3K

[mild crag]

Heroic Artemis boons

[karmic coyote]

what is the requirement to max out friendship with Skelly, Megaera, Thanatos and Sisyphus, do i need to upgrade their keepsakes to lv3 first

[harsh aspen]

@mild crag I know, right? When I saw it on Deadly Flourish, I immediately dropped Poseidon's equivalent for it.

Epic Life Affirmation was also useful since I was running Nyx's keepsake up until Temple.

I had 7 Artemis Boons alone that really helped. Having Deadly Strike, Deadly Flourish, and True Shot coupled with Clean Kill and Hunter Instinct ensured that my God Gauge filled up faster than normal. I used Greater Call for Ares three times that fight, over both phases.

[mild crag]

They gutted life affirmation didn't they

What's the value on that one you've got

[harsh aspen]

+36% at Epic lvl 1

[mild crag]

Yikes

I remember when it was like +70% at common rarity

Was hilarious

[wind vale]

tbh its probably still good, just doesnt compare to the 85 or so% before

[harsh aspen]

It's more in line now

[wind vale]

it still buffs everything?

[mild crag]

I think it's good yea

[wind vale]

i mean shop hearts or the darkness side bonus?

[mild crag]

Is it supposed to be everything

[wind vale]

or was that just a bug that got fixed

[mild crag]

I thought it was just rewards

[wind vale]

it just said room rewards and used to be that but with this update i had it buff absolutely everything

[harsh aspen]

I believe it's all heart rewards, so Centaur Hearts, Darkness life buffs...really anything that extends your life bar.

[wind vale]

but didnt try it since the nerf

[harsh aspen]

At least as far as I know

[atomic panther]

It buffs everything except Than hearts

[harsh aspen]

The two upgrades I grabbed were Armor Skewer, which helped to shred armor in the Temple (especially), and Extending Jab

[wind vale]

also doesnt affect chaos hp gain, right?

[atomic panther]

Correct, it does not affect that

I forgot that was a thing tbh

[wind vale]

i always go for that when i do runs focused on stuff like doom/poison/(zeus)

since the rest from chaos (except gold which is less valuable with the pact) dont really help me

[ruby creek]

How the hell do you beat ||hades||? I breeze through the rest of the chambers (including boss fights) and always get mauled by him.

[frosty pier]

It's a good time to pick up the shield. Block really helps.

[trail abyss]

^

[ruby creek]

So just spam the shield until I can make it work?

I just want to get onto the new game+ so I can start getting Titan blood and all that jazz

[trail abyss]

The shield made the entire run a complete breeze for me

[frosty pier]

More like sit behind the shield to learn the fight.

[ruby creek]

Should I upgrade the Zagreus aspect?

[trail abyss]

Exagryph also melts everything including hades if u get the triple special with artemis crit special boon

[frosty pier]

Nope, block is built in the charge.

[ruby creek]

Yeah my two favourites so far are Exagryph and Varatha

[narrow lagoon]

My first completion was with the bow with doom and 5 dashes, the last one really helped to evade the biggest part of attacks. And a big distance between Zag and the boss helped too

[ruby creek]

Not for performance, more just in how they feel.

Haha yeah the furthest Ive been getting is with some goofy stuff.

[trail abyss]

Lol i love hermes

[ruby creek]

Whats the best aspect on the shield? Just the straight up damage reducation?

[narrow lagoon]

I think it depends on your play style, for everyone it's different

[trail abyss]

I think u should just treat the boss like the heroes fight

Thats basically what i do

All of the attacks r very telegraphed, so just learn the timing to go in and back out

Or just use the shield and just spam dash and attack

[narrow lagoon]

But for me, Zeus' aspect of the shield sounds good, it removes the biggest weakness (can't attack when threw the shield)

[trail abyss]

What exactly does ur special do instead by the way? I dont have it unlocked so

[narrow lagoon]

I didn't unlock, but it change to thunderbolt or something like that and you can attack while this special works.

[trail abyss]

Ah

[ruby creek]

Its like Ares spinning discs

But slower

And you can right click to recal

FYI: You can buy the upgrades, test them on skelly for a bit and then alt+f4

Doesnt save, at least not so far, wouldnt go voer like 20 seconds.

[narrow lagoon]

You can exit without alt+f4 I think, it writes when it saved last 🤔

[wind vale]

you can even go on a short test run if you want - buy one and jump into the run - make sure to give up and you will be at the save before you bought the weapon

but: you may not go back into the bedroom before starting the run - that would save it

(also make sure not to end the run - death or victory - that would also save ofc)

[narrow lagoon]

OOOOR maybe suggest to devs a possibility for players to try an aspect before buying? But it can be pretty cheaty. But it has no difference to the current possibility to try it.

I'll write something in feedback I guess

[ruby creek]

How do I get a Legendary boon btw?

[wind vale]

quite a bit of luck but there area also requirements

they are different for each god ofc

usually its have a(fitting) basic boon of that god, a (fitting) lvl2 boon for that and then get lucky(meet them again and hope)

[ruby creek]

Okay dokey thanks

Man I just cant get past stage 2 of ||hades|| Doesnt matter what weapon I run or how lucky i am. This is like the 5th time I've died to his stage 2.

[frosty pier]

Just so you know spoilers about bosses acceptable here

[narrow lagoon]

@ruby creek, what was your weapon? Because it become easier with range weapon. Also, I used Poseidon' Call with "Invulnerable" to evade some hard attacks

[ruby creek]

@narrow lagoon The Shield.

[narrow lagoon]

I can say dashes really helped me and periodical damage like poison and doom together. When I use shield, I block some attack with bull rush but ||laser type of attack|| I try to evade

[small girder]

Is it my idea or are Zeus's boons pretty bad?

[ruby creek]

What weaposn you been using?

[quartz sleet]

I really like the splash damage with the special attack

[ruby creek]

Yeah try the Zeus Dinyseus dual one

Its an absolute blast.

[quartz sleet]

I have to say though one of my favourite boons is the zeus chain lighting for the cast

[small girder]

I've been using everything

[frosty pier]

So you telling me that you used everything and for example Zeus's attack on rail doesn't make it deal double damage?

His legendary is easiest to get and in tandem with attack just wipes the foor with people.

[ruby creek]

Oh holy hell I did it 😄

[frosty pier]

Niiiiice

[ruby creek]

The line from the narrator was brilliant

[mild crag]

[iron shale]

@frosty pier wait easiest to get ?
its not just random ?

[frosty pier]

You need specific boons for it to appear.

With Zeus it's an attack/cast + that one giving you extra bounces.

After that it can appear.

But for me it's like 147% ,because i'ma lucky sod i guess.

[neon ridge]

zeus attack unlocks T2?

because it's not stated in the wiki 🤔

[frosty pier]

Yup. It does.

[neon ridge]

that's nice to know; yesterday i took zeus cast for the sole reason of unlocking T2 even though i had the attack

is the wiki maintained/updated by the devs or players?

[frosty pier]

There is one tortured moderator responsible for that mess.

Problem with getting T2 usually lies in that you can get just a facefull of T1 that are left.

[inland pebble]

Um... I haven't updated the game to the lastest one yet. But have they fixed the Aphrodite Aid bug?

[wind vale]

one small thing i noticed - it seems you can increase the value of them by closing the game(maybe just quitting to main menu is enough) and reloading

meaning if i got a minimum value chest for anything, do this, and suddenly its the max value version

just in case anyone wants some help farming whatever

[ruby creek]

Can someone explain better what curse of longing is doing?

[limpid otter]

If somebody is weak then instead of being hit with their doom effect once, they will be hit with the doom repeatedly, with each successive doom having 25% the damage of the first one

[ruby creek]

Ah okay thanks. Thats what I thought but the visuals were a bit all over the place so I wasnt sure.

[wind vale]

25% of the previous one, no?

so constantly getting smaller - or did they change that without me noticing?

[ruby creek]

Oh wait

So if my doom damage does 200, then it does 50, then 12.5?

[wind vale]

yea thats how i know it

ofc since both are status curses it will always have the bonus from privileged status mirror buff

[ruby creek]

That is nowhere near as exciting as i thought

[wind vale]

yea much prefer ares + athena

[pastel jolt]

it used to be a lot more broken, trust me

[wind vale]

which btw removes doom even if ares + aphrodite is there as well

would be so nice if these two duos could work together - apply doom+weak and dash(athena dash) over enemies repeatedly

[burnt rune]

it's exciting if you also have ares buffs

stacking + secondary hit

[ruby creek]

I've got Adamant Rail and I thought each bullet would be doing like 100 damage with doom.

[burnt rune]

get Dire Misfortune :v

[chilly abyss]

It's kinda scary how consistent Aphro+Dio builds are

[terse tiger]

in what way?

[teal wren]

does hestia aspect also increases the damage from daedalus hammer upgrades?(mostly shotgun mode)

[chilly abyss]

It doesn't even matter which boons you get, almost any weapon attack can stack poison, it doesn't matter what kind of attack you put weak on you'll trigger it, the other boons are either damage reductions or other synergetic effects and the duo bonus is just gg

[wind vale]

hestia doesnt really combine with shotgun - after a reload you get a single long range shot from it before the shotgun shots continue

it does work with explosive fire or piercing

[chilly abyss]

Just finished a run with 400 poison dps on attack (meaning the weakest one) due to bonus damage stacking 😆

Oh right and you get the double effects bonus as well

[wind vale]

you also always get privileged status easily - so a damage boost is always included

[chilly abyss]

The only downside is that I only saw half of Zeus' and Ares' boons 40 hours in because they always feel underwhelming...

[wind vale]

i agree that zeus is generally really underwhelming but ares is nice damage

[chilly abyss]

I think my main issue with these two is that because they are strictly about damage they feel kinda meh if you don't build around them. Like, the other gods have damage reduction, better rewards, defensive effects, good status conditions, or for Arte crit boosts you couldn't get otherwise.

Well I guess Arte seeking arrows is also a win condition so it never feels too bad just going for a roll of the dice

[wind vale]

i see ares doom as really great on abilities you use sometimes in combat, so some specials - just a fire and forget thing with large damage for it

or at least it can be

but building around them with ares you are rewarded, not so much with zeus

[chilly abyss]

True. I guess the main benefit for ares compared to Zeus is the strong early game

Getting doom on attack or special pretty much clears Tartarus on its own

[wind vale]

yea i just usually much prefer special since it gives way more damage and it usually fires slower anyways

[chilly abyss]

I'll have to give them a go

Though Aphro Dio has been soooo consistent. I guess it helps never rolling the sword 😄

I do have a more in-depth question about stacking of effects.
From what I gathered this is how effects work:
Aspect damage bonus is multiplicative (Eris gun)
Chaos damage and specific attack bonus are additive
Damage reduction is additive to a cap of 80% (multiplicative with Aphro)
Ares damage bonus is multiplicative
Double effect damage bonus is multiplicative
Backstab damage bonus is multiplicative
Stuck cast bonus is multiplicative

Can anyone confirm this?

[cosmic shadow]

Is there a list of Duo boons?/

[glossy plaza]

have you tried looking up the wiki

[teal wren]

just did a run where I had died to the last boss beforehand and got a +200% darkness boon from chaos in Tartarus, I swear I got like 1100 darkness taking the boss rewards into account

[native ether]

Wiki has a list of duo boons. To my knowledge, they're fully updated.

[turbid needle]

Does anyone know of nice tips for killing shielded mobs/Theseus? And tips for how to use the Aegis as a weapon? I struggle with both. You can @ me.

[storm vine]

@turbid needle when they cast, they stay facing the same direction from the cast a few seconds

you should hit them there

and theseus i usually abuse that he uses the lance, and when he grabs it he starts walking away from you, so thats when I hit him

[turbid needle]

Hmm okay so basically have some patience and wait for them to do stuff and then react?

[ruby creek]

@turbid needle Theseus charges up his attack. Its very telegraphed. Once he throws the spear he'll turn his back on your for a few seconds. This is the best time to smack him about.

[turbid needle]

Thank you kindly. I'll be open to anymore tips. Maybe even general combat tips (I struggle most with close ranged weapons like Stygian and Aegis).

what's your minimum cash in hand to go to a shop (without price hikes)? i wait until i have at least 300 but idk how sensible that is

Are you asking that to anyone?

[steep sentinel]

I feel like that depends on where you are in the game

[woeful sage]

I'm usually okay with around 150-200 unless I'm desperate to find a sandwich.

But I've been skipping stores more if the other door is a boon

[turbid needle]

yeah, why spend 150 to get a boon when there's one for free next door, right?

[wind vale]

it depends if i am using the pact option to increase prices - but assuming i dont - i would usually try to have at least 250(boon and pom), better 275(boon+heart) even more if i might want a hammer from it

[woeful sage]

I mean, taking the shop was also a way to avoid taking damage so I had more for the bosses

[solar latch]

am i allowed to link a video of my own glass cannon build/breakdown in here? Dont wnat to break any server rules

basically beat final boss in under 2 mins with a stupid powerful railgun

[wind vale]

i mean we link screenshots all the time here so i dont see why not but obviously not sure

a strange question - does the poseidon + aphrodite duo boon only increase regular poms or also pom effects gained from eurydice or the nectar upgrade?

i never really get these 2 together so hardly ever got their duo and never thought to try

[turbid needle]

is lightning rod any good? it sounds terrible

[wind vale]

the stones can just stay wherever they are and constantly do damage

its ok

its just passive damage that accumulates even out of your range