Well, the shield ones are bad, but oh well
#h1-builds-and-combat
hard holly
The Zeus one could be nice, but it ticks a bit too slowly
Its also basically just a bootleg Blade Rift
ocean halo
@native ether still droped tho)))
boss drops are updated
everything else too
kinda sad to loose a room drop like that
but its ok, wanted to restart anyway to see new aspects
hard holly
You need a resource for em
So dont restart just yet
Actually I guess if youre on an old run you have to restart anyway
ocean halo
I already got new key from furies
all other drops were updated
just not heat
thats why i thought it was really weird
native ether
ocean halo
already reported the first one
elfin pulsar
so what are these diamonds use for?
hard holly
Cosmetics in the house of hades i believe
elfin pulsar
well theres the gemstones I can spend at the dude next to hades
and then theres these diamonds I got from bosses
ocean halo
new spear special is a bop
elfin pulsar
havent seen any NPC taking them yet
ocean halo
such a bop
ocean halo
dash* sorry
hard holly
Aw
The hades one is not as good as I thought
It doesnt upgrade the damage of further spins
Just single press attacks
verbal orchid
what are skeleton keys used for now? can't find anything to buy or unlock with them
hard holly
Alright then, looks like its another no-attack boon run
blazing mulch
Troves, weapons(at start), mirror and you can always exchanged them
verbal orchid
I must have already unlocked all the mirror upgrades that use those keys, ty
hard holly
Alright, Aspect of Hades isnt as amazing as I thought it would be, but its still pretty nice
elfin pulsar
now on the other hand
the special seeking bow upgrade with the 2x special hammer
is some real nonsense
how many times can u level up each aspect?
elfin pulsar
im kinda worried that a full upgraded aspect is gonna make the game too easy
its like starting with a free hammer
blazing mulch
so you have heat 😄
elfin pulsar
i mean, even at 120 heat tho
i guess people will just play with higher heat than before
blazing mulch
before patch ppl doesnt wanted to play heat
elfin pulsar
ye I was talking about being too easy for the end game players
the aspect leveling system is probably awesome for everybody elses difficulty curve
arctic venture
WOAH
elfin pulsar
especially with bounties
arctic venture
Hestia’s gun + the shotgun upgrade is so ridiculously good
Especially with a bunch of Artemis boons. I took out the butterfly miniboss in Elysium in about a second
elfin pulsar
dang thats pretty gross
hard holly
Yup
kind fiber
The aspect of zeus on the shield is amazing but a little niche/difficult to get the most effect from
hard holly
It sets the damage of the next attack to 30 (or more if you upgrade it) after reloading
Applies to all shots of the shotgun upgrade
kind fiber
easy way to apply dion or ares effects to people
hard holly
Zeus is fine, it just suffers from a slow tick rate
kind fiber
Its fine?
hard holly
Its a bit slow on Zeus's aspect
blazing mulch
well compare it to ares blades, you can miss some damage due of tick rate
kind fiber
Sure, but you can apply boons really quickly with it
hard holly
I guess its still better than not having a special effectively
kind fiber
ares blades doesn't apply dion's poison or anything
its good zone control that has a higher duration
hard holly
Wonder how it interacts with zeus's boon
Do you spawn a lightning on every enemy hit on every tick?
kind fiber
I don't know, but I would assume it wouldn't be so absurd as that
hard holly
Maybe not, but it would be hilarious
Its just a shame that the upgrade basically just says "you have a special you can use now", bit unexciting compared to the others
Still better than the chaos upgrade which is basically not worth using ever
Wow, I almost had a double legendary run
kind fiber
The chaos upgrade is the one that throws out two shields after bull dashing right?
rugged horizon
ok so to get special keys we get 1 per biome completion on normal, then we're suppose to get 1 for each heat completion tier going up?
hard holly
I think so?
Oooh
Do I sell a legendary that isnt great for 445 gold
So I can buy all the stuff in Styx Costco
I think I do
pastel jolt
quick, opinion time y'all - i'm running artemis attack on the shotgun rail and i can get either explosive fire or piercing fire
kind fiber
Explosive fire seems like the obvious pick?
pastel jolt
i'm leaning towards explosive fire just because piercing doesn't seem too useful when i'm already up in faces
yeah, i think i'll go explosive
hard holly
Id also say explosive
The stagger is really good when youre up close
Assuming the spread shot upgrade doesnt stagger
shell helm
Hey now, easy question. How do the aspects unlock? I've got a key but I can't seem to use it on any of them
thorny latch
You need to go right on the update you want if you have enough keys
shell helm
Yeah I have 1 key and tried picking the aspect that costs 1 key on a few... Maybe it'll work next time with the game restarted
You don't have to beat the final boss after the update or anything to make it work, right?
thorny latch
Or maybe you need to get them sequentially?
I got enough keys after beating him, so I can't tell
shell helm
Ahh maybe. So I'd need 3 keys and do the upgrade to the base one first
Yeah I died on him so just 1 key for me 🤣
thorny latch
Second time was the charm, I got greedy!
gloomy scroll
so now is poseidon aspect busted with exit wounds like how I read it?
shell helm
Could be, nox. Though you'll have to keep alternating cast/hit it sounds like
gloomy scroll
it does feel a little clunky on lower health enemies, but once I get to bosses I think it'll get working into a rhythm
shell helm
Do the diamonds (not the decor gems) have a purpose other than trading for other things, anyone know?
gloomy scroll
also is the new armor texture really just solid color or is my game bugged?
shell helm
Yeah, sounds powerful for bosses especially if you stack them first
I don't remember anything as just 1 color might be a bug
finite geyser
Isnt the enemy damage higher than it used to be? I did not notice such thing in the patch notes
gloomy scroll
sword, but noted
shell helm
haha i figured out why i couldn't unlock the new aspects
the menu has left and right functionality
i was on the "select aspect" part on the left, not the "upgrade aspect" part on the right
🤦
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/631262869391933490/unknown.png
I love cast builds
static skiff
is it just me or are the aspects of the gun and of the sword more boring-sounding than the rest? Like, they only give different bonuses on your basic attack and special, meanwhile almost all other aspects change the fundamentals of the weapons playstyle slightly.
turbid needle
Poseidon Aspect meshes very well with Artemis and a whole bunch of Casts.
atomic panther
Even with my 1321 total damage on the cast, I still died without a death defiance
hard holly
Eh, the second sword one is cool
And does change the way you play the weapon
The first one is just bad though, yeah
As for gun, both change how you play it quite drastically, even if the second one is more "get Spread Shot and love life"
The real dud is shield
First one is just about unusable, second one is not terribly exciting either
static skiff
but the gun is just like, "reload bonus" and "stand in your q"
hard holly
I mean, standing in your Q is very different from how you usually play gun
And the reload bonus facilitates unique builds
static skiff
really? I would usually stand in my q cuz most enemies followed me, and my q would be so slow that I'd have to dodge around inside it for it to hit anything
hard holly
I tend to lead enemies with it and let them walk into it
Usually you want it to be at a good distance from you
static skiff
but then you wouldn't be in range to basic.
and if you get too close the enemies do their run away move or dash attack
god, the gun and I just don't mesh very well.
hard holly
Maybe, its not the simplest weapon
But hey, if thats how you play the gun anyway
You can use the Q buff aspect well
So youre already one step ahead of me, because I tried picking it while it was a hammer and never got it to be useful for me
static skiff
The bow has the real fun aspects tho
hard holly
The first one looks fun, Im not sure Im convinced by the second one
It doesnt feel like there is a benefit to just using casts normally
static skiff
The first one's fun as hell
hard holly
You dont get the deflect from Athenas cast for example
static skiff
makes boss fights ez as pie
static skiff
I just use them to trade at the broker.
hard holly
I vaguely recall seeing the shade that lets you redecorate having a diamond option
But I have not seen it since, so
static skiff
Maybe its just me. Maybe I'm looking for something that the aspects were not meant to provide.
pastel jolt
yes, some of the hosue decorations need diamonds instead of gems
static skiff
5000 gems for a decoration? Are you serious?
next we know 1000 gems will be 1.20$ Kappa
brave agate
don't even joke about that 
errant narwhal
those are a lot of duos...
hard holly
Alma the divine matchmaker
Technically you even have a triple in there, Ares -> Athena -> Aphrodite
In fact you could call this a
Triple A build
vast eagle
i struggle with dodging the final boss's spin attack since i feel like it's hard to know which way he'll lunge, is there something i'm just not noticing?
gloomy scroll
if you have two dashes, a souble tap of it will usually get you I-frames through it if you can wait until the last second
vast eagle
thanks!
steep lark
Wow bow feels so good with the chiron upgrade
rapid holly
bow was already my fave now its even better
wintry swan
Dude these aspects are super cool
elfin pulsar
the bow upgrades are super sick
the first spear upgrade is super sick
im kinda iffy on the others
wintry swan
Can you have multiple aspects on the same weapon?
wintry swan
awwwwww
elfin pulsar
they even change the weapons model
wintry swan
I wanted to combine the second and third shield aspects
and have MULTIPLE GUIDED BUZZSAWS
Alas my heart is broken
mods when
elfin pulsar
the buzzsaw shield aspect is kinda cool too
wintry swan
yeah, wanted to combine those two
elfin pulsar
that'd be sweet
honestly the ones I like the least are the ones that are just hammers they turned into aspects
feels so lazy from a dev thats almost never lazy
steep lark
ok scratch that second bow aspect is my baby and I will fight you over it lmao
elfin pulsar
both the bow ones are home runs IMO
elfin pulsar
for sure, just real uninspired
steep lark
but bow 2 is beautiful and I'm gonna be using this for a long time
elfin pulsar
gun 3 with the shotgun hammer seems cool but thats it
steep lark
well I guess bow 3
elfin pulsar
now that heavy slug is gone
steep lark
I just got bow 3 and grabbed art cast and in the next room got extra cast ammo
and found you can proc multiple cast arrows in one shot
and I honestly haven't had this much fun in a long time
its beautiful
gentle pollen
The aspects seem rad, but I'm really hoping Heavy Slug makes a comeback as one because I'm definitely gonna miss it.
elfin pulsar
agreed
heavy slug dying for gun 3 feels so not worth it
hera aspect or w.e. its called
kind fiber
Is it just me or is hera aspect busted?
elfin pulsar
with the shotgun its probably completely op
kind fiber
On the bow?
steep lark
the cast bow is legit my favorite
elfin pulsar
both the bow ones are sooo sweet
kind fiber
your cast will come off in 10 seconds at base
basically
you can load every attack with 3 casts
or more
it seems insane
The main weakness of casting was how much time it took
hera aspect eliminates that entirely
wintry swan
Do they come out of the enemy faster?
wintry swan
niiiiiice
kind fiber
First upgrade is 8 seconds
steep lark
Slight issue with hera bow
kind fiber
I imagine it gets down to 6
steep lark
if you get double shot loading a cast negates the double arrow
upbeat junco
Which god has the highest damage attack?
kind fiber
I think either athena or aphro, not sure which
turbid needle
It goes Artemis<Poseidon<Athena<Aphro
kind fiber
Artemis could have higher damage if you calculate in her crit damage, but I think she mostly relies on her crit synergy boons
She certainly does in certain niche cases
rugged horizon
i LOVE THE BLOODSTONE BOW + 3 LEGENDARY ARTEMIS
vestal snow
Totally disagree about the Sword and Gun aspects, I love them.
Nemesis aspect on Sword (special giving Crit chance on attack) was always my favourite hammer upgrade and I love that I can play with it whenever now
rugged horizon
yea the hera one
but @kind fiber try turning on boss modifiers, youll stop saying the bow is overpowered
lol seriously 3 desa+3 stone heads is hard
kind fiber
Guess I don't know how all the new modifiers changes things
rugged horizon
yea on normal unboosted, yea that bow is quite strong, but with heat, naw
kind fiber
Are you sure? Mechanically its amazing
rugged horizon
oh im sure, im doing a normal run now, and im seeing the difference, but normally i run on 12 heat+
and while yea i can see its strong, its not mechanically overpowered
even with 6 t7 trueshot bloodstones + crit main atk and double shot, i still didnt 1 shot a single dusa miniboss
i didnt even break the damn things armor
vestal snow
Yeah Hera is definitely powerful, but it doesn't feel significantly stronger than any of the others that I've tried. They all feel great
I think Chiron Bow is my favourite so far. The seeking special arrows are awrt
*awesome
In general I love how so many have the aspects have you switching up your attack/special/cast
wooden spade
I LOVE Achilles aspect. It feels very strategic because you can throw it then blink out of the way of attacks and stuff
rugged horizon
yea the hera aspect more feels like a free hermes bloodstone discharge, not op
kind fiber
Its a free hermes and a free artemis fast drop
Seems like I need to find a proper comparison though
rugged horizon
yea could say that, but the homing special can be just as strong, especially with double special shots
wet dagger
ok how soon after a new update do I wait before starting to complain about the heal-fountains in Styx....
because damn those things are still invisible to me!! Was running with tons of Hermes' blessings too, so would straight up run thru the fountains like 4 times before would stop in just the right spot to heal 
forest marsh
It's always so satisfying defeating The Bros within seconds of each other
grand pollen
https://imgur.com/gallery/KH9ghXR Just finished my first run, feels good so far.
turbid needle
Hey werefox, did you experience issues with the Aegis blocking attacks while you were charging it for the bull rush?
grand pollen
I didn't in that run, I don't use it often. Was using a couple of the new features in this second run though, and am experiencing that now, yeah. I've also found it seems to be a bit finnicky trying to do charge attacks in general, but since I don't use it much, I could just be wrong.
turbid needle
Okay, Just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me
I'll submit a bug report next time I load up the game
forest marsh
Doing a shield run, haven't noticed any issues blocking attacks while charging Bull Rush yet. Tested against numbskulls, louts, thugs, brimstones, witches, arrow traps
proud storm
Love the shield daedalus boon that turns your bull rush into the bow attack
turbid needle
So do I, but i seem to be expierincing issues with the attack block function that would make that upgrade all the better
wet dagger
oook! fresh update, fresh playthru, first beating of the thing!
https://imgur.com/dyEZopc
forest marsh
Congrats!
How many runs did it take you? I did that too and it was 5 runs for me on a fresh save
wet dagger
That's uh... 3rd run
quasi knoll
i kinda don't like nova having a delay now
wet dagger
It was really weird not having all the RARE and EPIC boons & been spoiled by my last file havin aaaaaaaaall the darkness in the mirror
The new sword special animation is really tripping me up
hollow totem
wanton niche
Hey, anyone know where the Pact of Punishment moved to? I can't find it anywhere.
frosty pier
If you cant find it, looks like you'll need to unlock it again... by beating a full run i guess?
timber crescent
I was just going to ask the same thing. I have some heat on since the last update. It is going to be an uphill battle if I have to beat hades with this on before I can remove it :/
wanton niche
Same. It's weird though, cause Zag commented on it not being in his room anymore and he and Hades had a talk about it.
frosty pier
Did you start a new run with the old heat?
frosty pier
THat's a bug for sure then. New pact hangs around the escape window.
wanton niche
it is, then
hard holly
@vast eagle Im a bit late, but, the final boss's spin attack has an outline it shows when he is about to use it
So it tells you where it will hit, and where you need to dodge away from
wanton niche
That would explain the weird text I got with the pact that reduces health gains
ocean halo
Soo it looks like Hiron's Bow doesnt work with double special hammer upgrade
is it intended ?
blazing mulch
What do you mean ?
ocean halo
Well special upgrade says your special fires +100% more shots
Hirons bow aspect says your special shot maximum is 5 but they auto-aim at las target you've hit with attack
I picked up that hammer upgrade and it still fires 5
blazing mulch
no, chiron change number of shoots, if you grab the hammer you will get 10
blazing mulch
no way, can you check if you 100% picked the one? tab
proud storm
huh it works for me
blazing mulch
no with chiron
ocean halo
damn
tough echo
Chiron Aspect + Relentless Barrage = Sweet Bliss
rich zephyr
yeah thats OP
timber bloom
Love this game, and I think the update is great. I think it would be awesome if there were different clothing designs that can give different abilities, or just causes additional dialogue between characters. Hephaestus could be in charge of that, like have a secret shrine in Zag's room, or an order-delivery form where the pact of punishment used to be.
ember lotus
I kind of agree with the rocket upgrade. I took it because I'd gotten Athena stuck on my special and thought turning it into a projectile would at least let it deflect things. But it fired a little too slow to stop Theseus. In Styx I got triple bomb and that made it okay, but it needed work.
Still the rest of the update and the sheer amount of content to explore, I'm kind of in awe this game is only version .23~
tough echo
Snake Oil. No matter how many times I've wasted my Death Defiance(s) in this boss fight, I still take it before going for any heat run. Fighting neckless Hydra is fun~
rapid holly
Agree the rocket is too slow and difficult to use. I hate regretting hammer choices
frosty pier
#bring_the_slug_daddy_back
ember lotus
I don't know if anyone has seen the hidden aspects, but I wouldn't be too surprised to discover it waiting for us there
There's just the question of quickly getting like thirty keys to find out
solid solar
Yeah "quickly" 😂
inland pebble
grab all the chaos and poseidon obol boons, boys. We are going shopping 😎
ember lotus
If the bow special wasn't gated on frequency of lightning strikes, the second bow aspect would supplant shield special+explosive return as my favorite Zeus setup
hard holly
Slug shot, gone, but not forgotten
I kinda wish that it just became one of the aspects
Would be cool to have more aspects that change the baseline functionality of the weapon, like Achilles's aspect
stable oyster
I’m still a fan of shotgun shield
tough echo
So... Aphrodite's Call...
ember lotus
I have to try it. I just don't bull rush all that often because dash attacking does more damage
Yes. It's mostly just a chunk of 2.5k
tough echo
Yeah...
ember lotus
I don't think charm is all that big a game changer
tough echo
Chunked half of Hydra's health apparently.
ember lotus
But it will let you skip one of the Hydra phases
tough echo
Does it work with Theseus or Asterius?
tough echo
That shield of his will be troublesome.
ember lotus
Wait to use it until he does his call
He won't block anything for like a million years and you can do whatever you like to him
tough echo
Will take note.
ember lotus
If you can crit Asterius and set marked on Theseus Aphrodite's call might just kill him outright
proud storm
aphro's call damage is affected by the pierced butterfly
so you can go from 2,5k to like, 3,6k
tough echo
And Theseus ded. Time to do same strat on papa Hades.
graceful bough
oof
they added actual beneficial rewards to the pact of punishment?
but whyyyyyyyyy
I feel like that's going to sour my experience.
next lagoon
I mean... challenges should give better rewards anyways I feel like
So that’s what they did
stable oyster
So you’re telling me that players are incentivized to play with interesting heat options?
Blasphemy
graceful bough
I guess I've just had a lot of experiences soured by similar situations in games.
next lagoon
It also lets you choose what you want to make harder in a pretty exact way
I think it’s pretty fair
And it helps to make you better at the game
graceful bough
The concept of "replaying, but harder" in itself is a really tiresome game mechanic.
It's already a challenging game.
At least it feels less like padding now.
stable oyster
Replaying but harder is just difficulty settings
I’m fine with it, keeps the game fresh when done right
I at least prefer it to replaying but the same
hard holly
Or to New Game +
Where you have to replay the whole game to get a couple minor changes
stable oyster
In most cases
Cough dragon quest 11 cough
Also I personally liked recursion
Ng plus in bastion was meh
graceful bough
I've not tired myself out on the main game enough for the Pact of Punishment to not seemingly doing the opposite of making the game feel fresh as of yet.
proud storm
the pact options that change boss battles are neat tho
stable oyster
I am still an adamant defender of whipped frenzy/overtime
elfin pulsar
I think the game would be so much worse without pact
high heat changes the way you have to play so substantially
its not just like you have to hit the enemies more
it also lets supergiant balance the game so new rogue-lite players can actually beat it
without making it a 2-3 hour experience for long time vets
graceful bough
I think they've been nailing the length and difficulty of the main game.
Although I'm still playing through my first run on the new update.
I think it should be reasonably long and considerably difficult.
elfin pulsar
yeah I'm quite happy with it too
I think they've really hit the sweet spot, especially with the hades changes this patch
but im very thankful for pact, because I would have quit the game pretty soon after I was winning 0 heat consistently
hard holly
The thing with roguelikes is that their learning curve is often steep
graceful bough
I don't think experience with roguelike/lites as a whole is very relevant.
More, Supergiant's style of gameplay.
hard holly
So for "casual" players its gonna be pretty tough, while for "hardcore" players its gonna be too easy
The pact basically solves that
By giving the "hardcore" side a way to make it harder
While not taking away the ability to reasonably finish the game for the "casual" players
elfin pulsar
idk, I feel like nuclear throne prepared me a lot better for this game than transistor did
their other games are honestly so much easier in comparison
you dont necessarily pick up that much from them
graceful bough
So I think I realized why I don't like the Pact. I'm not saying it's sound logic; I'm just saying I think I've figured out my perspective.
elfin pulsar
and yeah thats exactly how I feel uno
graceful bough
When there was no reward, it felt like padding. Now that there's a reward, I'm frustrated that I feel obligated to use it now. Thus in my head I'm back to the, "Ugh, why does it have to be in the game at all" perspective.
Which I'm not saying is a valid perspective; I just figured out my headspace is all.
elfin pulsar
i dont realy understand what u mean by padding
graceful bough
Well, okay
elfin pulsar
its a rogue-like, the whole point is replaying
elfin pulsar
especially in a game thats this skill-based, players are gonna get to the point where 0 heat is trivially easy
graceful bough
It made that update feel very not major.
elfin pulsar
so it feels like a necessary part of the replayability experience, not really padding
graceful bough
Okay for a brief moment I thought I was able to explain my perspective. Maybe I'll just leave it alone for now until I can actually figure it out and come back later.
Sorry, lol
elfin pulsar
I wasn't playing when it came out but yeah I would have been pretty salty that the whole update was just the pact lol
graceful bough
Also a god.
But I just felt a little let down because they kept emphasizing a "Major!!1!" update.
elfin pulsar
makes sense, big difference between pact and a god and the monster of patch from yesterday
graceful bough
I wasn't trying to expect anything big from them, but they kept promoting it like it would be.
elfin pulsar
well, I'd say they've clearly redeemed themselves
graceful bough
So when the update was basically a new god and a way to replay just the first two biomes but harder, it was hard to think of it as anything but padding.
elfin pulsar
that makes sense
vale sphinx
If you put a player’s experience in playing Hades on a timeline, where you start at 0 knowledge of the game and end with knowing every little thing, pact adds a lot to the later part of the line, and kind of not much to the first part
graceful bough
No, no, the game is great and all the updates were great.
I was just let down by the first one because I didn't know what to expect yet.
And they kept emphasizing that it would be this first really big update.
vale sphinx
The mistake here is that you assume all parts of the game, even major ones, apply to players all along the timeline
Which might not be the case - pact does apply very heavily to those further ahead on the timeline
graceful bough
Certain bosses have gotten way easier over time.
vale sphinx
Probably not so much to those not too far
graceful bough
I don't know if they keep making them easier or if I'm actually getting a lot better at the game.
vale sphinx
That’s kind of a little intended
elfin pulsar
the only boss that i've seen significantly get easier since I started is the red sister
vale sphinx
I’m p sure they included notes about making furies and hydra easier
elfin pulsar
and I think I started on the patch she came out
so anything since then is just u getting good
graceful bough
Hydra is way easier than it originally was.
But I don't know how to tell if they continue to make it easier or if I've just gotten really good at fighting it.
But I think Hydra was originally insanely hard because it was the final boss at launch.
green birch
You’ve gotten good, if the past you tried to play the game as it is today you’d probably only make it to Tartarus/Asphodel at best
proud storm
snake oil hydra is harder but in different ways, like launch hydra
elfin pulsar
actually I think hydra did get substantially nerfed when elysium came out
ima just stop talking about it cuz I dont remember clearly
proud storm
no you're right
hydra got through a series of nerfs since launch and then got buffed a little bit
elfin pulsar
the snake oil hdyra fight is hilarious
graceful bough
@green birch So you're saying the game is significantly easier than at launch? 😛
(It took me like a dozen tries to kill Megaera.)
elfin pulsar
i think beating hades now is substantially harder than beating hydra, at least at the time of the furies patch
green birch
No, I’m saying your skill level has grown and if you were to magically reset your skill you wouldn’t get as far lol
graceful bough
Hydra was changed pretty quickly.
green birch
I love introducing Hades to my friends but even the well-gamed ones can’t make it to Hydra on their first try or anything aha
graceful bough
One of the first two major updates.
proud storm
i beat hydra on my 20-something try when it was super hard at launch
graceful bough
No, maybe a patch before the first major update.
hard holly
I mean, bosses have generally gotten easier
The Hydra used to be a true terror, now its a mild annoyance
But you also probably got better
Except Meg I think
I dont think meg ever got nerfed
graceful bough
I think she's a great first boss.
And that's a fair point.
I am better now. Hah.
(I don't think that was in question, just logically, but the comparison was getting better versus game nerfs.)
hard holly
My main issue with meg is that she doesnt quite keep up with her sisters
She is a lot easier than Tisiphone and to a lesser degree, Alecto
graceful bough
Oh man when the other Furies were added, that was terrifying.
elfin pulsar
for me its actually alecto>meg>tis with tis being easiest
hard holly
Really now?
I find that I get hit by Tisi the most
Mostly by the side projectiles of her dash
elfin pulsar
i've somehow managed to always just dash through them
the windup on her dash is so long it really gives me time to plan it out
graceful bough
Alecto is red, right?
proud storm
alecto is the one whos got rabies
graceful bough
I'm having difficulty remembering which is which gameplay-wise as well.
graceful bough
Doesn't help that I got Meg on my current run (first in a month-ish).
elfin pulsar
alecto has the rage bar, tis has the shrinking rooms and the stun dash
green birch
I loooooove Extreme Measures
green birch
Tbf I may have beaten my run if I hadnt used it but yeah it’s just too fun
green birch
It really does huh
elfin pulsar
bit of a shame you cant do 500% damage anymore though
graceful bough
Ooh just got Thanatos. I wonder if he's more balanced now.
proud storm
he is
green birch
They reduced the number of elite enemies that can spawn with him so that helps a ton
graceful bough
(Before it was always either impossible to beat him, or you beat him by an utter landslide. Rarely ever a balanced competition.)
proud storm
he can still beat you but it's more even
graceful bough
Just beat him 23-8.
elfin pulsar
nice
graceful bough
Oh Minotaur has been severely nerfed.
Probably a lot fairer to players who didn't already spend the time to get used to his hectic attacks. 😛
proud storm
funny moments w/ chiron aspect + poseidon special https://streamable.com/jbf48
elfin pulsar
thats sick
graceful bough
Hmm I don't know how I feel about upgrading weapons.
proud storm
zagreus aspects are just straight upgrades
proud storm
some others are also upgrades but some others change parts of a weapon's gameplay
fair
proud storm
MORE fun times https://streamable.com/8hgsr
hard holly
On a sidenote I find it hilarious how Aphrodite started out as the strongest god, then became the weakest, while athena then was the strongest, and became the weakest, while Poseidon was the strongest, and became the weakest, and now Aphrodite is the strongest one again
For direct damage attack boons
Wonder why they dont just give those 3 the same exact attack value
pastel jolt
because they need to be balanced around the secondary effects of their boons
athena shouldn't be the strongest in damage bonus because of deflect - else it's not worth picking anything else
hard holly
I mean yeah, she shouldnt be the strongest, but if she is even, then all 3 have a reason to be picked
Athena gives you deflect which is great on projectile foes if you can reliably get the deflect (The guns hitbox is still wack), Aphrodite gives you weak which makes you take less damage (especially good for bosses) and Poseidon lets you throw around the weak enemies (but I guess is not as useful on bosses)
Right now I dont ever want to pick either of the 2 over Aphrodite, just like I didnt want to pick either over Poseidon or Athena before
elfin pulsar
so, upgrading my dio cast to heroic via the new character didnt increase its damage at all
is that intentional? i filed a bug report
and yeah I think aphrodites effect is straight up the strongest out of all the gods
it effectively doubles ur HP if your only hit by weak enemies, and its got nice bonus boons
but it doesnt seem like a great option for your primary damage source to me
even with the higher numbers
does seem kinda weird they would up the damage so high when the secondary effect is what u want it for
hard holly
Nah its amazing for your primary damage source
Because you apply it any time you do damage
So you have 100% uptime
The fact that her numbers are also just the highest is just the cherry on top
elfin pulsar
but does it do more damage than artemis, or like zeus/dio on a fast weapon?
hard holly
Ironically I find Athena to be the one that is better suited for secondary attacks
elfin pulsar
yeah I definitely agree with athena being a secondary one too
hard holly
Well, no to the latter one (those are the Zeus/Dio niche after all)
The first one is a questionmark
It really depends on the weapon, the attack and the surrounding boons
But on main attacks, I have found Artemis to be so-so as of late
elfin pulsar
only being like a 30% damage boost on epic is pretty whack
hard holly
Except on bow because of the dash attack bonus
Its good when you get to multiply more damage
Since its the last multiplicative damage bonus left
So if you just have an attack boon, and maybe a benefit from a hammer, Aphrodite is your best bet
If you also have dash attack boons, Id go Artemis
atomic panther
The last directly multiplicative one. Her second projectile boon is also multiplicative in a sense
elfin pulsar
so on what weapons do you think aphrodite is the optimal damage boon?
hard holly
Shield, Spear attack and special (though you could get away with Artemis here if you get a good Chaos boon), Sword attack unless Flurry blade and probably special
Bow attack (not sure about special) and Gun Special
Gun attack is either Zeus if fast, or Artemis if you go for Heras Spread Shot Dash attack
elfin pulsar
interesting, ill try some of those out
atomic panther
Sword special with Double Nova and a +149% damage from Aphrodite carried me through all of Asphodel without any issues
hard holly
Yeah that sounds about right
elfin pulsar
yeah I think aphrodite is amazing on sword special
hard holly
I just still like the deflect attack on sword special, but the numbers are a lot weaker now so its hard to justify
Because it also gives you a bit of invulnerability on sword special
safe mesa
if you have double nova and super nova on sword the special's invulnerability is extended
especially if you get the hermes boon that boosts your special's speed
hard holly
That sounds busted
atomic panther
Since it's not instant anymore, it's not as ridiculously good, but Hermes makes that difference negligible
safe mesa
everything came to me and died
hard holly
But its not very reliably, so Im talking more in general
hard holly
Poseidon boons are fine if you cant get Aphrodite
Athena hurts a lot when she is the best one you can get (which is a real shame)
Artemis is also fine as a filler if you want Aphrodite but cant get her
safe mesa
i usually run athena builds with sword
now with the nemesis blade, i don't have to farm for artemis boons as much
so i can focus on builds with aphrodite and zeus
hard holly
My issue with Nemesis blade is that it takes too many upgrades to be worth using
safe mesa
really? i've found it worth it from the start
what's your typical heat count for runs?
hard holly
15% chance to crit just really low
supple lake
Did Rail always fired 2 shots at once?
hard holly
Especially since you have to special to get that 15%
Its usually a damage loss overall compared to just wacking them
You probably are seeing the Dash Attack, Oceans
It now fires even faster than before
supple lake
Oh. Wow. Thanks, see that now.
safe mesa
i guess i got so used to empowering nova that it's kinda just ingrained into my playstyle
supple lake
My clicks are long, who'd thought...
hard holly
Yeah the new gun dash attack is sweet
Same for Spear
But Nemesis blade should be pretty good once you level it up a bunch
supple lake
Hate it when I start the update on the run.
But I'll earn a little before the House now.
New Hydra even took 1 life from me.
Bad setup though
No synergy at all.
hard holly
In my first evaluation I totally missed the levelup part and thought nemesis was bad in general
meager cairn
Anyone know if eternal spears raging throw benefits from "Crit on return" from vicious skewer boon at all?
hard holly
If it gets offered, it should, yes
If it doesnt work, it doesnt get offered, is how aspects work from what I gather
elfin pulsar
has that been confirmed?
hard holly
Not officially by SGG, but its what I gathered from the files
But I should add a disclaimed, Im not 100% sure Im correct
elfin pulsar
so your saying you found code that stops you from seeing certain hammers with certain aspects on?
hard holly
Thats a way to put it, yes
Also oof, I got the hardest choice to make
Do I swap Aphrodites dash for a heroic Artemis Dash on a Hera Spread Fire Gun run
Or do I get their duo
Theyre both really good
elfin pulsar
is their duo the slow projectiles?
hard holly
I guess I might get boiling blood, so duo is better
Bonus crit to weak enemies
I think I go for that one, weak is also kinda useful in general
elfin pulsar
makes sense to me
hard holly
Nvm, shouldve taken the dash
solid solar
How does Artemis dash work I don't get it. Most other dashes do damage but Artemis says it does damage but does nothing
Like there's this green trail behind you but it seems to do nothing?
hard holly
It makes your dash attack do more damage
So if you attack right after dashing, that attack hits harder
hard holly
Oh the dashes themselves arent the dash attacks
solid solar
Right makes sence
hard holly
The dash attack is something each weapon has, an attack right after dashing that is a bit different
The most recent patch also added animations to the dash attacks that didnt have any, so you can notice easier now
Anyway, Heart Rend is a lot worse than I thought it would be
It only gives you 35% extra crit damage, not 135%
elfin pulsar
can you get flurry fire (faster attack, more ammo) and the shotgun hammer?
thats good to know about the duo
also, you can still get infinity chamber offered with the third gun aspect
supergiant seems like they are playing a lot safer with crit now
understandably so
elfin pulsar
it kinda makes sense
hard holly
But any combination that seems busted
Is disabled
No spread fire and flurry fire
No spread fire and no reload
elfin pulsar
thats a shame
there was heavy slug with no reload tho
which gave me hope
or at least thats what i was told, never got it myself
quiet ledge
If I take Zeus upgrade for the Bow special (array of arrows), does it sill produce only one bolt per enemy?
hard holly
That rumour did make the rounds but it was not possible to get both
Dammit
I accidentally rerolled an aphrodite room I wanted
vale sphinx
I am pretty sure if you get zeus bow special, every single arrow that hits an enemy gives a zap
At least that combo melts my laptop
hard holly
Oh well, it worked out
quiet ledge
At least that combo melts my laptop```
Even't if it's the same enemy? That wasn't the case before, and I already skipped this opportunity now
10 dmg per arrow and 46 per bolt seems a bit steepI do think it was the case before
I distinctly remember dashing behind people and getting like eleven thousand zaps
quiet ledge
hmm okay
elfin pulsar
so does every 2 god combo have a duo now?
hard holly
I dont think the patch added any new ones, so if each had one before, then yes, otherwise no
Looking at the wiki, Ares still doesnt have duo boons with a couple god, so I believe the answer is "no"
dull berry
the wiki isn't up to date yet i believe
kind fiber
Is anyone else having problems with some of hit boxes in the game?
I think the patch messed some of them up
opaque yacht
love the new heat system, a lot more options and feels more rewarding. Beat the game twice so far in four runs 
kind fiber
I'm using aphro's cast right now and its not hitting enemies that are clearly in the area
opaque yacht
so I have a question, if you go above the recommended heat level, how are the rewards distributed? You still have to beat the game on each one of heat levels to get everything? 
hard holly
It isnt, but this patch didnt add any duo boons
So it being up to date to the last patch is sufficient
elfin pulsar
yeah I think going over the required level doesnt have any benefit
other than fun, that is
opaque yacht
Okay, if this is true, then this feels kind of strange
because in all previous games you could ramp up the difficulty all the way at once and get all the benefits, even though the benefits were rather boring compared to Hades system
elfin pulsar
ye it feels off to me too
it seems like its just artificially increasing the amount of runs u need to do for the rewards
hard holly
In a way that is what its doing, yes
They dont want people to burn through everything quite so quickly, the same reason I imagine the decorations cost so much
elfin pulsar
it definitely makes sense
opaque yacht
yeah, those 2000 ones 
turbid needle
I've debated going up in increments of 5 so I immediately get advancing Erebus rooms every time I increase my Heat.
We'll see when I hit 10 on the Rail.
elfin pulsar
the rail feels really good to me rn
my build is a mishmash of mistakes and its still just super smooth and easy
turbid needle
High level Hestia is bonkers.
opaque yacht
oh yeah, I need to try other weapons, only used the shield so far
elfin pulsar
using the aphrodite attack based on suggestion
hard holly
Its been hit or miss for me so far
elfin pulsar
its definitely nice
hard holly
You just need that one good attack boon, but when you get it, its smooth sailing
opaque yacht
I always found the rail to be rather weak
hard holly
Spread Fire is great
elfin pulsar
got an epic aphro attack early on
elfin pulsar
seems to do the trick
i've kinda had a hard time with bow but I think im just bad at it
turbid needle
I feel like Aegis has the weakest Aspects.
opaque yacht
that last run with six cast shots that crit ~1200 dmg, that was juicy 👌🏻
turbid needle
But that makes up for it being so strong vanilla.
turbid needle
Ares? Slicing Shot?
elfin pulsar
the 3rd shield aspect
opaque yacht
ah the Zeus one
elfin pulsar
ye
opaque yacht
I just started a run with it, only finished the sisters because I was gettign tired, but it seems to work pretty well with that Zeus boon that shoots lightning when you special
hard holly
Yeah Shield definitely has the weakest
turbid needle
I haven't used it yet. I've been messing around with Chaos Aspect. It's fun with Doom and Dionysus if you can get right in something's face, but I'd rather just Explosive Return spam.
hard holly
The first one is useless, the second one cool but really weak
Its like a blade rift thats slower, does less damage and ticks much slower
opaque yacht
so while it's moving it shoots lightning all the time
hard holly
On a sidenote, tested what I wanted to test
Guns Dash attack is actually a quick double-tap now
And both of those attacks benefit from Hestia
So with spread fire you get 2 quick Hestia boosted shotgun blasts
Its nasty
opaque yacht
oh about that chaos aspect, there's a daedalus upgrade that does damage when special returns to you, but it doesn't work for additional shields. I wonder if that's intended
hard holly
I figured it is because only one shield is the real shield, but I wasnt sure if thats how it worked
turbid needle
Multiple explosions sounds super broken.
manic ermine
Blitz disc damage is solid once you max it out, 75 damage per tick with a good boon
hard holly
Wait, how do you get 75 damage a tick
manic ermine
base damage 30, 150% inc damage
opaque yacht
broken? I like broken
manic ermine
or just use zeus bolt
hard holly
Though, that does sound actually decent
Only issue is you really need to max it out and get a good Aphrodite boon
manic ermine
it doesn't interrupt your melee attacks at all, which is just really good
hard holly
I guess my issue is that some of the secondary upgrades are only really good once maxed out
While others are just immideately good
See: Hestia
Still, yeah, that does actually sound decent, I didnt think of that
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/631588879148777482/unknown.png
Sorry, Than, but I already got Hunting Blades
hard holly
Chaos one is bad obviously, if youre bullrushing, you really dont want to special and lose your ability of bull rushing
turbid needle
Most of the Aspects require lots of leveling to really see their benefits.
hard holly
Plus more specials dont exactly fix the issues special has
hard holly
A high damage build and a bunch of death defiances let you just brute force it
But otherwise, his attacks are fairly easy to avoid if you are patient
Lets see
His projectile is just sidestepped
But it spawns a bomb that unleashes a big AoE wave
Dodge through that one, and youre clear
opaque yacht
I only put one level into that chaos aspect but I never had the problem with bullrushing, I don't know what you're talking about 
The problem I have with it is that it's barely hitting anyone
atomic panther
I beat Asterius in the miniboss room with two volleys of cast. Good to see Hunting Blades is still bonkers
hard holly
His AoE has a long windup and even a sort of circle silhouette, telling you he is about to use it
When he does, dash backwards, and you should be clear
round wing
yea, I have noticed that
opaque yacht
it obviously doesn't work like the main special and that's super wonky
hard holly
His line attack is similiar, but with a line
elfin pulsar
how does ares cast work with the cast bow aspect?
turbid needle
I haven't tried it yet.
hard holly
The second phase is trickier
His spin gets replaced by a combo into a spin, similiar concept, but you have less time to dodge, and you need to stay away from him for a bit
round wing
and what weapon do you recommend?
turbid needle
Whatever weapon you're most comfortable using.
hard holly
You can just dodge through his lasers when he has three
When he gets more, seek cover
turbid needle
You can also dash into the center and avoid damage that way.
hard holly
Urns just mean that you should either clear them out before moving there
turbid needle
Risky as all get-out, but you can.
hard holly
Or just dont move
Weapon doesnt really matter but if youre struggling, I recommend a ranged one
round wing
I have tried shield, went pretty well but I always fell for the big AoE bombs
hard holly
Bow if youre good with timing and knowing when to dash and when to attack
Gun if you want to run n gun (heh)
round wing
then with the spear, I didnt get a good chance to spin attack
opaque yacht
nice, I had an informative message but used a wrong "overconfident" word FeelsWeirdMan
hard holly
Spear special if you can get Explosive Launcher
Spin attack is dangerous if you dont have quick spin
I wouldnt recommend it vs Hades
elfin pulsar
are you dashing as you let ur spin go?
hard holly
Preferrably pick Flurry Fire, but Infinite fire is also ok
And special go for Aphrodite (weak is also just nice in general)
And pick triple bombs if you cant pick Flurry or Explosive or Infinite fire over it
round wing
and I already messed up
hard holly
Thats ok
round wing
I picked Athena's totem
hard holly
Totem?
atomic panther
Keepsake
hard holly
Yeah I got that now
Well, I cant say I particularly like Athena very much right now, her damage numbers are low but
If you can get her Call or Dash, thats nice
turbid needle
She has the second highest damage modifiers and she's necessary for Merciful End.
hard holly
Special upgrade isnt good (youre not gonna be reflecting with special on gun), and attack is also not great (the hitbox is wonky, you wont be reflecting very well either)
Third actually
Out of three if you dont count Artemis
turbid needle
Pretty sure second behind Aphrodite.
hard holly
Nope
30% for Athena, 40% for Poseidon, 50% for Aphrodite
For attack that is
Special is 50/70/90 I think
Wait, do I have that the wrong way around?
hard holly
Thats a good one
Especially for Hades
You can burn charges early to get through a nasty attack
Or save it for 14 seconds of being able to attack without any care
Also yep, I was wrong
Athena is 40% and 70%
elfin pulsar
athena call with the sword lets you just sit and man-mode his whole second healthbar
hard holly
So she is actually fine, and its Poseidon who sucks
Youre on gun, right?
Try to find Zeus's or Dionysus attack boon
Zeus's is preferrable, as it handles rooms better and does a bit more damage
round wing
oke
opaque yacht
Or save it for 14 seconds of being able to attack without any care
but do that between 75% and 25% of his hp, because he gets a shield there, I didn't see him get one at 50%
opaque yacht
oh really? I guess I didn't pay too much attention
round wing
is epic blight strike good for gun?
hard holly
How would gun ever make any use of it
hard holly
Its pretty great
kind fiber
Is the reduced hitbox of some of the special boons intended?
hard holly
Even then I think youre better off with just using Zeus or Dionysus
kind fiber
for the zeus aspect shield
hard holly
Instead of trying to attack-dash-attack-dash that close
Anyway, now you pretty much have all you need ironically enough
The only thing youre looking for is flurry fire, explosive fire and/or triple special
And an aphrodite special boon
opaque yacht
I'm just curious, how many hours in-game do you guys have?
turbid needle
Epic was wonky with tracking my hours but I have over 500 escape attempts.
opaque yacht
over 500? Wow
turbid needle
I no-lifed this game for a month when I didn't have internet.
hard holly
Lemme check real quick
elfin pulsar
idk how many hours I have but I have about 100 runs logged
with up to 120 heat in the old system done
hard holly
I never did 120 heat when it was still easy :S
elfin pulsar
yeah I got it done b4 elysium came out lol
hard holly
164 attempts
opaque yacht
I don't play that much between updates really, I just finish the game fast on the new update a few times and then wait for the next one 
I have 46 hours, most of the mon the first two big ones I think
but this one adds a lot of replayability!
hard holly
Yeah thats been how I play the game too tbh
Partially because I burned out, partially because I have so many games to play
round wing
do you guys remember, when you could basically cheat the hydra boss?
turbid needle
You still can.
turbid needle
Oh, different cheat.
round wing
before you could just use bow
elfin pulsar
ye I got soo many games too, only play 5-10 runs an update
round wing
and almost nothing couldn't hit you
elfin pulsar
classic wow has ruined me playing other games
round wing
except the hydra stomps
opaque yacht
yeah but than you're using bow
round wing
whats your best streak?
hard holly
Though I think Ill play this update for a bit
You mean how many runs I completed in a row?
Iunno
round wing
mine was 5
opaque yacht
without Hades?
hard holly
Probably somewhere in the 10-20 range
opaque yacht
Oh then like 3-5 with Elysium I think
elfin pulsar
i never played at low heat enough to get a real streak, I think my best is 4
round wing
yes, what I counted was with Elysium
hard holly
Elysium was probably, hm
elfin pulsar
I'd always try adding more heat after each run
hard holly
I think 10 or so after they nerfed the beef
opaque yacht
I guess long range is just not my style huh
rapid holly
i thought you had to climb in heat post patch and ran at 1, then, 2, 3....
elfin pulsar
thats what the pact wants you to do, but u dont have to
rapid holly
i know that now
turbid needle
You could grind out all the keys necessary without ever actually using Heat.
elfin pulsar
i was just looking at the new pact and I think 24 heat runs might be easier
the only thing that looked like a problem was the time limit
but it might not actually be a problem at all
rapid holly
how does the key grinding work? i didnt really factor that in
opaque yacht
I guess he means the charon keys you can get for 1500 gold?
opaque yacht
if you finish a boss on one heat level, you're not going to get any more keys from him until next heat level
rapid holly
so if i do a 20 run, will it mean i need 21?
or to clarify, when its saying 1 is the limit, if i go straight to 20, does it ruin all my keys from 1-19
opaque yacht
you mean, all the way up to 20? Or just jump to 20?
no it doesn't
that would be really stupid design tbh
hard holly
Uhh
I had the extra fury sister option
Alecto was there at the start
Went up
And did nothing for the fight
opaque yacht
LULW
gloomy scroll
hmm
hard holly
I mean, I did kinda kill Meg in 20 or so seconds
opaque yacht
By the way, I don't like that they don't acknowledge the additional sisters through dialogue
would be kinda nice
rapid holly
i went into that the first time expecting two lfie bars ala theseus
opaque yacht
ye me too
rapid holly
kind of wanted that
round wing
just beat the hydra
hard holly
I mean
When I had that, Zagreus went "huh"
Or rather, "uhh...?"
So, snake oil messes up the chamber layout, takes away the 2 healing gyros you get, and turns the Hydra from a Snake into a Snek, huh?
turbid needle
That's weird, Scarlet, I've definitely had dialog before, including the very first time I used the option. Once Alecto just kept shouting for Meg the entire game, barely did any usual banter/bloodthirsty screaming.
hard holly
Yknow, one part I like about the hammer system
Is the ability to switch build mid-way
Started out as a spin spam build
Now Im explosive launcher all the way
opaque yacht
definitely no unique dialogue for me so far, I mean Zagreus could say something like "There's two of you now???"
opaque yacht
🤞 gl man
hard holly
Good luck
turbid needle
Any one have tips on how to handle the big chariots? Especially as melee?
hard holly
Nice
rapid holly
i curse a lot
round wing
just kill em real fast
rapid holly
outloud
hard holly
Wack them a couple times before they start moving fast
round wing
or try to drive em to a trap
hard holly
Then run away while screaming
rapid holly
use a wall you can shoot behind too and keep dashing back and forth across it when they turn the corner
atomic panther
Casts and basic attacks stagger them. If they're armored, pray
rapid holly
or a river
round wing
or you know, face them head on
turbid needle
do they run into walls like Asterius
wet dagger
This is the slowest of slowpoke moments.... but only now did I realize can see my full item inventory on side of screen when checking my full Boons listing
.... plz tell me I'm not the only one.....
rapid holly
they dont blow up on a wall, but they do charge into it wasting all of their dash
hard holly
So they can hit you inbetween staggers
rapid holly
so you buy yourself time
hard holly
On a sidenote, i think Achilles Aspect might be the way to go for spin builds
The damage boost works on spins, and it gives you some nice mobility (plus you can press attack to dash to it and start the spin without that weird little attack first)
Also I foresee me yeeting myself into the lava
A lot
turbid needle
Ye, the Hydra fight was annoying with Achilles, I'd keep dashing into the lava. Seems like the spear goes past the main head
low knot
This patch is so awesome
solid solar
Spear seems to not hit the head when it's supposed to quite often. Perhaps something to do with slightly changed art assests
Feels like hitbox doesn't match visuals
Quite well
I kept getting hits on empty space nearby and no hits on just the edge
gloomy scroll
ok so I got exit wounds pos aspect sword and I just got fully loaded +3
this is kind of busted
I M2 6 times, go in to q and if anything still lives I now have lightning rod
dull flume
covert hatch
