So
#h1-builds-and-combat
vague hearth
I don't know to be perfectly honest
light nova
ok. ill check it tomorrow
lost rose
Some troves are free
drowsy plover
It'd be nice if you could choose when opening the chest what to use, eg. free to open, 100g prize. 1 key for 150g, etc.
but thematically it might not make sense.
light nova
hmm, not so bad idea
vague hearth
Just have Janus appear and just "Pick one, kid. You'd be allowed to have both but I decided to say no."
light nova
but it will be too easy for players like me
drowsy plover
that or facing harder waves for a larger bonus, but i am just greedy.
light nova
i have A LOT OF keys
drowsy plover
I don't have everything unlocked yet :c
vague hearth
And all their interactions are just zag trying to convince Janus to give him both
drowsy plover
is there a greek equivalent to janus?
idk greek pantheons so well, other than the main boyes
vague hearth
I thought Janus was the name for both greek and roman
unkempt pagoda
janus is roman only
drowsy plover
iirc when egypt was expanding they adapted their gods to be more similar to the places they conquered
vague hearth
So with the furies
Will there be different bosses in the other areas too?
Like perhaps the Chimera and Bellepheron
Wait
Was it the Chimera or the Manticore
I'm not expecting there to be
That's a lot of content to add in
unkempt pagoda
probably not
vague hearth
But Greek Mythology being the way it is, there are lots of options
unkempt pagoda
currently the roadmap supports at least one more npc and one more weapon, any more than that will be extra
unkempt pagoda
placing my bets on eurydice
vague hearth
The bosses are good enough in their own right
blazing mulch
Actually the plan for bosses is completed. We will see now more end game features etc but as supergiants said, this is first game which they doing in a way they can add tons of content later
river sequoia
definitively asphodel
vague hearth
I'd like to fight something other than the hydra once in a while
unkempt pagoda
currently asphodel is very "empty"
it kinda feels like filler, so i'm hoping the npc will be there
vague hearth
Theseus and the minotaur have a lot going on already, and the RNG with the god Theseus calls makes for a more solid boss to fight every run
unkempt pagoda
give 👏 us 👏 eurydice
blazing mulch
Well there is boat level, the Medusa mini boss
unkempt pagoda
so ashley barrett will sing us a really sad tune about orphy boi
river sequoia
i would love to see eurydice chilling in the asphodel lava pools
it would allow for conversations and relationships like achilles and that guy in elysium that i forgot the name of
vague hearth
Asterius
river sequoia
thats the minotaur
vague hearth
Ah
blazing mulch
Hephaestus is someone I would love to see on second level to forge 6th weapon for us
And as God too
vague hearth
Hephaestus could do fire damage and/or explosive
unkempt pagoda
fire, explosive damage, and forging are all elements covered in game unfortunately
also there's a theory that gods mentioned in the weapons codex entry won't be in the game, and i think hephaestus is mentioned in there
blazing mulch
Still would love to get weapon from him hands :)
wet dagger
i kinda...need the Fates now
like, as a rando challenge? they'll mix up rando boon, weapon and dump u in a battle
it can be similar to Who Knows Where bits of Bastion!
green birch
Can I interest you in the Tenebrous Veil pact option!
pseudo totem
Pmsl so I've got the admant rail with flurry fire, explosive fire, swift strike, l3 tempest strike and it's hilarious in Elysium... Those chariots come charging after me then i just dash shot them into space and those lil spirit dudes get sent so far from any corpse...
I've also got tipsy strike, black out and exclusive access though i feel so reluctant to swap tempest strike for a poison now
turbid needle
Wait, you have Tipsy Shot?
If you can't poison them then you can't use Black Out at all.
pseudo totem
I know :-( but this tempest super rapid fire is so fun
I feel like a cyclone hitting a colony of ants
turbid needle
I think that taking Blight Strike would just be the best option.
But that's only if you encounter it.
pseudo totem
I'm pushing to get Dionysus again for the heroic swap and trying to get the zeus to get the duo on the fog
My tempest strike super rapid fire does naught on minos
<\3
I was originally aiming for a blackout, tipsy flourish, tipsy fog, heavy slug critical build but i couldn't get heavy slug
Scintillating feast is now mine
Just need Heroic Tipsy
pseudo totem
Yikez... Just hit styx... Time for that overflowing cup... Let's pray it works
Well 2 appeared in the shop... And i managed to get static discharge but I've gotta go to work :'-(
wind vale
lol i got my mirror finally completely full - took only 420 runs according to the game 🙂
native ether
420 :kappa:
wind vale
yea and actually random - only noticed afterwards
wet dagger
this is the most ridiculous thing... but ain't no trolling like Chaos curse trolling
https://imgur.com/rqJt0Aw
wind vale
i usually notice this when i just started the fight at least 😄
also: you can leave the room after starting one when you realize it
drowsy plover
can you have more than one duo or legendary boon? if you collect enough?
also tfw chaos wants to give you loads of hp for not dashing, and you're on shield and bull rush is neat.
faint carbon
yes
errant narwhal
yeah I’ve had both zeus and dionysus legendaries once... it was an amazing run
it was in my first run in the good times update
You just need good boon luck
drowsy plover
so, I'm only 45~ runs in, and I'm mostly using shield, does anyone else feel like it needs a nerf?
damage wise, it's fine, if a little strong for how defensive and mobile it is.
I hate to say this, because it IS so fun, but the ability to be able to bullrush and then block almost instantly, then repeat makes for a very easy and safe way to play while churning out decent damage. This works on almost every foe, and although shield has better dps options (dash attack builds) it just feels like shield has it all.
is this fine, and newbs like me should have an easy option? does it need addressing?
errant narwhal
I had so many zeus boons and trials in that run that I kept getting him in rooms even when all he had left to offer me was money lol
grand patrol
i think if your impression is "it IS so fun" then its working 
drowsy plover
that's part of what I think, for sure. and it is only 1/5 (6 later?) to beat the game with, the challenge still lies ahead.
errant narwhal
I’m still like..... in my refusal to play the shield bc I’m like nooo I’m a bow main.... but I think I should make the switch
grand patrol
yeah!
gcfhgfhj personally im bad at shield but like i understand it. mentally i get it
my proficiency is like
SWORD!!!! ->>>>>>>>spear shield->>>>>>gun->>>>>>>>>>>>>>bow
errant narwhal
when the game just launched it was the most powerful weapon (the deflect.....) and I think it’s time I dust off my shield skills again
drowsy plover
I don't understand how you can do badly with shield!
grand patrol
like this, apparently,
errant narwhal
I’m like hmm
grand patrol
its bc i overshoot and wind up in lava
errant narwhal
I’ll have to give all weapons a try on this patch
grand patrol
so im like BULL RUSH ouch ouch ouch ouch [DUN DUN DUNNNN DUNNN]
errant narwhal
damn I wish I could stream it :( it would be so fun
drowsy plover
that does happen sometimes, but you gotta mash the dash
can we not stream it for early access reasons, or just your rig?
errant narwhal
I think because of my internet
drowsy plover
ahh, you could record and upload seperately
errant narwhal
I think I’m like bow>sword>spear>shield>rail
drowsy plover
(also unrelate but loving how many nonbinary admins there seem to be here <3)
grand patrol
errant narwhal
I only really play bow and sword
spear and shield are kinda in a limbo until I give them a try
drowsy plover
I avoided sword a bunch after my first forced run w/ it
I was like "hah, the beginner weapon"
errant narwhal
and rail is just..... no I’m so bad at it, horrendous, I cannot aim with it, not for me
nova tho 
faint carbon
rail feels so clunky on a controller
drowsy plover
same, I finally got a run using the shotgun build and i died a whole bunch
faint carbon
compared to the other weps
errant narwhal
I play with kbm but huuuu
drowsy plover
I used 2 DDs on tisophone 😂
drowsy plover
treat yourself and buy a new one
errant narwhal
I’ve been dying to Theseus and asterius like every run
drowsy plover
i got one with silent clicks and lemme tells you, wow it's less stressful
theseus #1 bad guy
errant narwhal
That’s ok tho bc I’m finally getting the dialogue to get Hypnos that signature!
drowsy plover
jealous! I should make sure to kill thesius first for that?
errant narwhal
I think you just have to die to them a couple of times
low iris
errant narwhal
you can also die to just the Minotaur
drowsy plover
I don't know about 'best gods' but I like to use Ares for my basic attack
errant narwhal
I really like Artemis for the bow, the crits are juicy
drowsy plover
oh yeah, with the 300% daedelus hammer that is the crunchiest crit
faint carbon
what are the best builds for going as fast as possible with spear/rail btw? I have sub 17 minute runs with bow shield and sword so i'm happy with those but i've never really used spear or rail
I wanna at least get sub 20 with them lol
but I suck and have no idea the best strats
drowsy plover
I think Zeus is good for both basic attacks, due to high speed
spear with the flurry can do a lot of procs
faint carbon
yeah i've tried zeus but had bad luck with getting relevant hammers
maybe I should try again
even with zeus and perfect rolls though rail felt pretty slow
drowsy plover
yeah i have no idea w/ rail
pastel jolt
infinity and zeus on rail is so much fun
drowsy plover
spear, if you get lucky can do well from crits
due to aoe back attacks with lined up specials, or spin attacks with 100 base dmg
faint carbon
rail I had all the zeus boons incl legendary and explosive/faster shots for the hammer boons and still took twice as long as my bow run lol
pastel jolt
i think i have a video from the beefy update where i had zeus attack & legendary on rail vs the beef bros
faint carbon
maybe I just need to git gud with it
pastel jolt
it was Very Silly
drowsy plover
i just can't make the rail as viable as other weapons?
pastel jolt
i think rail viability depends on your control scheme
i use controller and that means the special feels clunky to use
drowsy plover
kbm here! remapped special to mouse too
pastel jolt
which limits me to attack
pastel jolt
at least with kbm the special can be aimed wherever
drowsy plover
oh shoot, i imagine that is hard
pastel jolt
on controller you gotta move it over to where you want it
native ether
Controller it would be harder seeing as the Special is so integral to how you play rail
pastel jolt
and gods help you if it doesn’t appear where you think it will and you end up missing entirely
native ether
Your attack is basically just a corralling effect to keep enemies in your special unless you get a serious buff on its damage
pastel jolt
i would switch to kbm for rail runs but i’ve been on controller since release and literally don’t know how to play kbm
faint carbon
^
pastel jolt
i was the same with pyre, actually
drowsy plover
well at least by using a controller you can make the switch to nintendo easier
pastel jolt
whenever i did versus mode with a friend, i’d go kbm and they’d get the controller just to try and even the playing field lmao
bold of you to assume i own a switch ;p
drowsy plover
i just wanted to make a switch pun, ngl
oh shoot. idk which hammer buff to take. I have bullrush vs armor already, I'm using aphro boons. Do I take dash boon, double attack but no knockback, or mirage flight to make special viable?
drowsy plover
it can get pretty hairy without it, if you use your special
pastel jolt
dash boon..... is that the one with explosion on dash attack
bc i remember that one being pretty neat
drowsy plover
yeah, it's so powerful
Mini Chariots self destructing counts as a kill for Zag when you're competing with Thanatos, unintended?
green birch
Probably intended tbh, I’m guessing due to a logic behavior
pastel jolt
thanatos popping exlted into shade form and then you finishing off the shade counts as a kill for both of you which i always thought was funny
honestly any quirk about the killcount is funny if you just picture it as the pair of them squabbling over what the rules are
grand patrol
theory: its bc the ghosty is a native creature to the underworld that works as a glue for souls (stored in weapons)
you can kill a spearxalted n it can come back as a shieldxalted.....
stable oyster
zag giving all the fallen heroes a new purpose in life/death is so wholesome
light nova
Look who killed hades with sword at 120 heat
I did!
Oooooooooooh im happy like a kid
faint carbon
nice gratz
drowsy plover
great job! I only just did my 15 heat run
(I was both delighted and facepalming about the 15 heat reward)
gentle maple
drowsy plover
I'm eager for the next ones after seeing the first.
native ether
Oh it's better lemme assure you :kappa:
formal hill
im getting so close to beating the final boss!
first time i beefed it real good, second time I managed to hold my own, third time he was nearly to half, i think?
he ||summoned some mooks to help him|| like a cheater, so I assume thats the halfway point
faint carbon
I dunno if you're asking if that's the halfway point or if it's a rhetorical question lol
grizzled bone
looks rhetorical to me 
light nova
@formal hill :DDDD half of hp. You will understand the pain soon or later
wheat elbow
interesting.
formal hill
@faint carbon @grizzled bone @light nova it wasn't rhetorical I was legit trying to figure it out xD
I was making assumptions
grizzled bone
oh well good luck, i dont have the game 
formal hill
@light nova I LEARNED PAIN TODAY.... I WAS NOT AT THE HALF WAY POINT LAST TIME LIKE I THOUGHT.....
lost rose
:3c
formal hill
does anyone have any advice for how to deal with the ||Vases|| ?
I dont understand D:
I thought I should break them first, but i still get damaged
lost rose
You should have a decent window to get away from them before Hades breaks them
formal hill
ok so its just a game of keep away 😄
lost rose
just put some space between yourself and them and wait for his attacks to detonate them, yeah
formal hill
I was so close too
it was the farthest I ever got though!!!
and thats my fourth time fighting him ^w^
lost rose
congrats! making progress
formal hill
so while i didnt beat him, i got farther than i ever have before!
i didnt know about the second part, so i whiffed my death defies 😂
"IM GONNA GET THE KILLING BLOW WITH A MELEE ATTACK LIKE A BOSS"
and then i set the controller down 😂
drowsy plover
Oh buddy, that's true pain. The victory from (spoiler end boss) || the first round. then he's like "okay now for the proper one" ;_; ||
I got RNG lucky and had the setup to beat it first time (shielding heavily) and then failed a LOT of times after that. I thought I was amazing, I was just a coward hiding behind my shield.
coarse hare
Has anyone actually managed to get through "-hp if you dash" chaos boon without basically having the rest of the game ruined? Every time it has something that I want in exchange, I tell myself to give it a try, and every time it ends in an early death
wet dagger
yes! Because it came up hella early in Tartarus so it just didn't have time to kill me before giving me that sweet sweet HP bonus
coarse hare
Yeah I suppose Tartarus is somewhat doable. In Asphodel I got on murderboat immediately after, so it was never gonna happen. I was also not paying attention to where I was and the last room with the effect ended up being Hydra....
wet dagger
...oooouch
light nova
It's doable if ypu play without speed up from Pact. I cant do it in Tartarus with 10% already. Damaging dash is gamebreaker.
pastel jolt
i’ve beaten meg with a dash curse on me before
wheat elbow
Congratulations. That is quite the feat.
drowsy plover
it is, but holy hecc that runtime 73 mins? (but also my fastest is only 30~ )
light nova
railshot takes a lot of time in exchange for a lot of damage
drowsy plover
also I only finished one 15 heat run so far, so that is an incredible feat to me!
wheat elbow
Also, all of Nyancats runs take a long time.
How long was your first clear again, 90 minutes?
light nova
45 mins was last run. Not long for me at all.
drowsy plover
so patient! I have no patience and i'll take every "go fast" option i can in any game
also on that note I hope hermes gets more love and boons, and i hope he gets some duo boons, like with zeus it could boost your next lightning damage by movespeed or distance travelled since last discharge etc.
wheat elbow
Well I asked for the first
stable oyster
I play overly aggressive regardless of the heat level
It works well at low heat and extreme heat, but not for mid heat
light nova
I would look at this style in Elysium where many little chariots in front of you.
stable oyster
just play shield and parry everything
viscid nymph
I just died at ||Hades|| on a sweet run, 37 minutes in and got them to 30% hp 😦
Same, shield is great 😛
viscid nymph
just being cautious 😛
stable oyster
all good
minor tangle
hi!
I'm looking for advise about hades, i'm a power-farmer player (diablo poe ...) and i really enjoy the dynamic game play of hades.
I would like to harvest tonnes of darkness 😄 so i look for the best way to do id. actually i have 84 skulls in in pact of punishment. and 6k darkness.
i try to look for semething on reddit, but it's hard, hades is a commun name, so i try here 😄
errant narwhal
the pact boosts your darkness gain so if you can play with that thats good, and poseidon has a boon called "ocean's bounty" that makes you gain even more darkness from darkness reward rooms so use his keepsake and try to go for it. you can also use the weapon with the purple swirls around it to get 10% more darkness if you dont have a preferred weapon
minor tangle
Don't know about the purple swils ! 😄 good ty !
previously i was running with bow with +500% dmg deal by foes and 2.5% per clear room without damage, it's good 300 darkness per run, but it's hard to pass hydra ^^
light nova
@minor tangle take Chaose trinket and roll for +Darkness when you can
I did it once
And as you can see, it's 1/3 of all your darkness
drowsy plover
hecc you've been a busy cat
light nova
Kind of
minor tangle
oufff wp !
gritty flame
Are boss names considered spoilers?
Downed the second boss on my 8th run 😄
Not sure how that is progress wise 😛
I love my spear though, geeze 😄
wheat elbow
Wait, there is more than one bosses?
gritty flame
Is there any way to down that boss faster though? It feels lik eit takes forever
lost rose
Spoilers are fine in this channel!
wheat elbow
The Hydra Fight will always be long and tedious.
The only things you can do to fasten it is get strong damage and try to get some AOE damage every chance you get.
gritty flame
My build was mostly centered around the aphrodite dash, + doom special because I got like a + 90% doom damage dealy
lost rose
Artemis' marked status is helpful for the heads, plus hammer boons that break their armor
wheat elbow
You can have 2-3 heads get close to each other for decent damage.
wheat elbow
It is a very bad standalone wrath effect.
gritty flame
I feel like I focus too much on hp powerups instead of the normal power up boons
Admittedly, ares' call was the only call power that dropped 😛
I had a power up for every ability, but never leveled them except for the dash
lost rose
You can take Cerb's collar for a temp health boost to make up for not taking as many health rewards
drowsy plover
I really like the ares call as a way to dodge big screens of damage.
lost rose
Honestly levelling powerups past lv. 2 or so isn't super worth it
wheat elbow
Depends on the power up.
drowsy plover
correct me if I'm wrong, but per level it gives the longest period of invulnerability of the calls?
wheat elbow
Not sure. It lasts for anoticable amount of time, yes, but you don't deal damage during that time.
Poseidon deals much more damage.
drowsy plover
yeah, I pick those types for the breathing room, not so much the dps.
but as for hp to damage balance, it's down to personal preference, I like to be around 200-250 for the final boss.
gritty flame
is there a max level cap for perks
drowsy plover
usually about 100-150 for hydra
I don't actually know! but they give diminishing returns so i've never tried to cap one boon, but invest across several to make them good
wheat elbow
@drowsy plover I mean, consider this:
The faster you deal loads of damage the less opportunities your enemies have to damage you.
Especially in Hades, having a strong offense can be a good defense.
drowsy plover
that's very true, my last victory was pure dps with almost no defensive options
wheat elbow
I'm a big fan of both
which is why Aphrodite is one of the best gods in the game.
She basically gives you both with almost every boon.
drowsy plover
yeah I was really underrating her at first, but I was very wrong to do so
although I'm still a sucker for trying to rush for the Pos/Dio boon (|| all future boons are epic or better||)
drowsy plover
what's the beef?
gritty flame
I have the thunder boon on my special with the spear
primary damage dealer
The third seems too good to be true
but the second seems better for bosses
drowsy plover
the third is good for aoe but you lose some of your precision & tricky-ness (by recalling a spear behind an enemy, you get the backstab) but the multiskewer leaves the spear infront of a random enemy, not behind.
drowsy plover
the first 1 is one of the best spear upgrades imo
gritty flame
the thunder does SO MUCH damage
drowsy plover
yeah, get them crits, maybe focus on artemis boons where you can next to boost them
drowsy plover
and since you're new-ish, take this tip
ATHENA DASH it deflects projectiles and attacks when you dash.
gritty flame
I realy loved aphrodite's dash
but I guess I do take a lot of damage dashing into projectiles lol
drowsy plover
athena dash gives you bravery, confidence, protection, and a pretty glow
I'd say the only weapon to take a different dash is shield, because why deflect when you can block
drowsy plover
the only issue with depending on spear special is it forces you to stand still for a bit when you throw it and when you recall, you can remove some of the vulnerability of 'static recalling' or w/e by doing a dash attack to recall instead, plus it repositions for backstabs.
gritty flame
Defeated meg 3 times in a row now
I def feel it for sure
First time getting past meg without a death save dealy
Does spear special count as knock away?
eternal stag
what are some favorite 25 heat builds?
i really haven't played with heat before, tbh
gritty flame
Omg poison spear
- extended reach from deadalus hammer
= ❤
I even have the thing where poison spreads for enemies
pseudo totem
So is it possible to get a epic to heroic swap via a shop purchase?
I've got peer pressure, fully loaded, swift strike, tipsy shot and blackout but I've only got nasty dash so blackout is kinda useless
And I'm by a pool of purge in styx who's offering blackout purge
And for those who were curious you can have multiple duo boons, I'm rocking
Exclusive access, scintillating feast and sea storm
I don't have faith... Gonna purge this legendary
Yikez... Okay you can... Shop is offering me blackout and blight strike heroic XD
@gritty flame if you wanna make your poison stronger blackout doubles the damage of your poison ticks as well. Mines doing 160dmg per .5 seconds
gritty flame
I tried
Blackout?
Couldnt power it up
first time getting to third boss
they're hard
pseudo totem
Blackout, legendary
Poison afflicted ford take 100% bonus damage in festive fog
Yeah they take a wee bit getting use to
pseudo totem
@gritty flame this run i just done i was able to primarily deal most my damage to that pair with fully loaded (+3 cast) and Scintillating feast (duo zeus and Dionysus) and tipsy shot... And lots of dodging
Base Dodge chance as in the hermes boon or the plume?
gritty flame
I mean, do you start with 0% dodge?
pseudo totem
Yeah
pseudo totem
I managed to get mine to 8 from beginning to 4th area then i swapped it for Dionysus cup because i badly wanted to change my x to tipsy strike
gritty flame
How do I know when giving a gift will get me a keepsake?
Or when gifts matter in general
pseudo totem
open up your codex
you'll see a bunch of hearts
one of the hearts will display a present
each person you can gift stuff to gives you a gift... normally after the first gift... except for cerb and i'm not sure if hades gives you anything
pseudo totem
yeah
toxic saddle
Hades gives you unconditional disdain.
Who knows, he might have a keepsake buried in the 900 or so conversations you need to have with him to complete his codex
pseudo totem
that awkward moment when you die from a farming tool XD
So far I've given as many ambrosias as the game will currently allow to all the gods except for Charon, Hypnos, Hermes, Patroclus and Mr Bones' mate Skelly. No additional keepsakes
green birch
Only one per character!
gritty flame
There;s a miniboss
in elysium
That kicks my butt every time
it nonstop spawns armored dudes, and has one pink orb in the middle
I swear this is harder and longer than most boss fights
Uhh
the soul catcher, is what its called
broken cipher
Ah, the butterfly ball Soul Catcher miniboss. Focusing down said pink orb stops more enemies from spawning.
gritty flame
It has so many hitpoints
:/
So Many!
I had 3 deaths defiance going into that fight
and died lol
broken cipher
Unless you've got some amazing AoE or a very quick attack and can stop the spirits from reaching a weapon-bearing form to begin with, I'd focus on that. Status effects generally help. Or layering dps upgrades. Or a very good wrath effect.
gritty flame
So the rail
thats a slow starting weapon right
I mean, I feel like you really need to get ze upgrades for it
unkempt pagoda
ye i focus on getting hammers really quickly for rail
gritty flame
@unkempt pagoda What'syour preferred upgrade
I didnt see a single hammer until 2 rooms before hydra lol
it was a painful run
It ended @ hydra
Do you ever unlock more mirror stuff?
Like everything is at max atm, until I get more keys
Don't know what to do with the crystals
unkempt pagoda
@gritty flame rail is the only weapon where i like and regularly use all of the upgrades
i'm a real sucker for flurry fire, explosive fire, triple bomb, and invigorating blast though
vagrant hearth
I got offered Exclusive Access! ... right before the final boss.
gritty flame
Yo
I got to the .. I think its the final boss
Hades
For the first time
I didn't have enough health or know the fight though
I didn't last long
But wow, this game is hard
pseudo totem
I can only make it to the 4th world boss with the rail
There's so many good hammer variations
I'd say triple bomb is the best. You can do massive damage with that and deadly flourish
I personally like the above with piercing fire, heavy slug and deadly strike along with athena Dash
native ether
Triple Bomb combined with Explosive Fire is always a good deal
wet dagger
the game just trolled me So. Hard.
get thru Alecto, Hydra and Minotaur w/out losing a life, with a side trip of pink butterflies room
waltz into final Elysium battle with 4 extra lifes like heeeeey Asterius is gonna be at less HP
the goddamn King proceeds to take away all my extra lifes because i dun even know how
crisp iris
lord
south comet
Watch the language please
drowsy plover
verily, I do declare that it is apt to refer to hades as a mother lover.
unkempt pagoda
i find it odd when people have grim inevitability turned to 0% and then leave negative feedback about healing rooms/boons/items healing zag 0%
cursive citrus
for some reason
this modifier
- removed * skull crushers from the gorgon fight
like it was just the two heads
no crushers
actually easier
wheat elbow
@cursive citrus Is that a heated run of sorts?
errant narwhal
doesnt seem like it, but theres a chaos curse with +67% more foes active
turbid needle
So just returned after 1 month deployment, big update has come out. I did complete the 120 heat challenge before the update, and the statue is locked again. Is that intentional? The rest 2 statues are open (unlocked)
pseudo totem
What's the deal with getting a perfect landing at the very start
cursive citrus
it jumbles the seed a bit
cursive citrus
if i bail a run and redo it i hit the landing, but it feels more superstitious than anything 
pseudo totem
That... That would make so much sense considering that one time i gave up because i picked the wrong boon in chamber 3 and when i got back there... There was a centaurs heart
solemn junco
Does anyone have tips for beating the end boss? I 've beaten him a few time but those were through brute force of death defies and high dmg.
errant narwhal
high damage is pretty important! enemy health ramps up as you progress in the game
solemn junco
Im trying to make the rail and the sword work. I cant beat him with those.
eternal stag
on sword at least i like to do focus on sword special, on rail i haven't played too much but my brother swears by heavy slug + triple bomb
privileged status is really useful, especially if you can get a status curse on dash it's really helpful
athena boons + weak are good also
solemn junco
The damage isnt an issue, its avoiding it. The 2nd phase really kills my runs.
green birch
Plume or Speartip are probably your best bets then in terms of keepsakes
solemn junco
For the plume, what % should i shoot fofr
Ive hit 20% and had the 25% boon and still died at normal
cursive citrus
is this meant to happen?
invincibull during charge instead of just as he pauses
seems off
solemn junco
Thats most likely to be a bug
cursive citrus
idk if i should f10 things that may or may not be features over bugs
lost rose
If you're not sure of something, it doesn't hurt to F10!
cursive citrus
will do
like yesterday i accidentally left a chamber in temple of styx before combat was over
during Infernal Trove combat
because right next to a cure pool
maybe you're meant to be able to leave maybe not 🤷🏻
lost rose
Can't hurt! At worst, we're not sure either and we ask a dev; at best, it's a real issue that needs to be fixed. There's no harm in misreporting!
cursive citrus
ok 👍🏻 just didnt want to be littering up data collecting
wet dagger
u can leave a chamber if Infernal Trove is on!
its the "nope , no mas, im out!" runaway option
opal nest
just got the rerolls unlocked, what should i be rerolling?
vale sphinx
I honestly like rerolling gold/hearts into boons if possible, might keep the gold if I have a Poseidon/Chaos boon to make it better, same for hearts and Aphro
Edge case, I can see how it would make sense to reroll a key / darkness into an ambrosia if you have the Dio thing that makes them hearts, but that basically never happens, so
placid silo
Here's an idea: You must enter every Chaos gate throughout your run, and if the well offers the entrance to a gate, you must buy it and enter said gate as well
grand patrol
the WHIM OF FATE challenge:
-tenebrous veil on
-mandatory chaos
....i kind of want to stream this
green birch
if u do please record it so I can watch
lost rose
another option: choose your boons based on a d6 roll
grand patrol
yesss
pastel jolt
they would be so proud
stable oyster
They appear to have something in place to prevent you from getting damaging chaos boons if you have veil on
Never got one in all my 200 heat runs
wheat elbow
@grand patrol Mandatory chaos as in visiting chaos every room?
grand patrol
As drunkle jack said above!
if chaos is there, you visit them, if theres an item to make a gate appear, you have to buy it and visit them
light nova
Lol
I did two 120 heat runs today withou any pain.
I think i am half-god now.
this one was funny
wheat elbow
@grand patrol Mind if I borrow that idea? Maybe I do a youtube video with that myself.
grand patrol
ya go ahead! no one owns a runstyle lol
turbid needle
Poison crits are weird. You're reloading and you see a Satyr take 300 damage in two ticks to clear the chamber.
light nova
What's the biggest heat was did this patch?
i mean, maybe my runs not even close to words "many heat"
faint carbon
I don't think anyone has bothered going beyond 120
native ether
You can only do the Whims of Fate challenge if you play the Persona 5 casino music in the background.
(cause it's called Whims of Fate) 👉 😎 👉
I might do this myself
Also you have to pick the weapon you get Dark Thirst on
grand patrol
dang, you sure did!
wheat elbow
I made it extra hard on me and also randomized my keepsakes and the decision of what gold laundrel rooms I got.
I recorded it, the run will be up in a few days I think.
vagrant hearth
I'm curious- what weapon upgrades do y'all like best/what ones do you always ignore?
unkempt pagoda
on which weapon?
sword - empowering nova + flurry blade or double nova + super nova
bow - perfect shot + double/triple shot or relentless + piercing barrage
shield - minotaur rush + any other bull rush upgrade or dashing wallop
spear - quick + massive spin
rail - any of them, depending on the current boon build
i tend to ignore any other ones
(i don't tend to get the third hammer so i'm ignoring it, cause most of the run will be defined by the first two hammers anyway)
grand patrol
super nova, the one that does critical attack after special, and lately im digging double nova :>
i....only use sword so thats all
green birch
Sword is good
unkempt pagoda
lemme rank the weapons real quick
- sword
- rail
- bow
- shield
- spear
in terms of power and also fun
quasi knoll
if your playing with controller the rail drops a bit
errant narwhal
i play with kbm and i dont like the rail ;__;
thin jetty
idk, i’m bad at the game but have fun with the shield
i like the mobility it gives me
i tend to play these sorta games with fidgety fingers haha
unkempt pagoda
sword is fun bc i move fast and also i generally use both attack and special in a run (same with rail but slower)
idk why but shield isn’t that fun to me, but it’s still strong as heck
thin jetty
to each their own i guess!
pseudo totem
Holy crap. Just made it to styx with 60 heat and lost my first death defiance moments before finishing Theseus
Have none of the synergies i wanted
I never got my tempest strike, rupture, sea storm, static discharge, deadly florish, triple bomb :'-(
eternal stag
sword is my favorite, my brother swears by rail though and he does play with controller
the only problem i have w sword is the hitbox on the attack is so small i basically don't use it
native ether
rail is still a great weapon but youll find it much harder to use on controller as everyone else has pointed out
in general though its lack of easy stagger/stun and mediocre base attack damage don't make it best tier, but its not a bad choice for a mid tier weapon
(its still my favorite though and ill use it despite its flaws)
wheat elbow
I mean, it depends on the difficulty imo.
The Rail is a stable and strong weapon with a lot of building potencial.
It just falls flat on it's nose as soon as Frenzy is involved.
placid silo
@wheat elbow that Chaos idea was essentially mine, but I still allow it XD it'd make a great video
wheat elbow
@placid silo Video will be up on thursday
placid silo
Sweet
I'll try it myself when I get home
Let's say you're allowed to either use Cosmic Egg or buy healing stuff during your run, if your hp is too low to enter a gate
wheat elbow
On my run, shops were free game
I did not go to chaos every chance (but to be fair: I don't think I even saw him all that much either, think I just forgot that he existed)
If I had two gold exits, I would throw a coin to decide through which I leave
and I also randomized my weapon and all of my 4 keepsakes
In Styx, I also randomized my 5 hallways
leaden orchid
Do you guys actually use bow or shield specials?
Cause either I have no idea how to make them useful or they're just useless
wet dagger
shield is great!
if u get the "attack while its in flight" upgrade and then throw it so its bouncing around while youre still attacking other things......
very usefull!
leaden orchid
but it deals like 15 base damage, right?
later in elysium 15 damage is nothing
and to get that upgrade, you have to use hammer, right?
imo thats just a waste of hammer
at least theoretically
faint carbon
I find the shield special real useful, does respectable aoe damage when coupled with ares / dio / zeus
I use it a lot on high heat because i'm bad and it lets me kill stuff while they're far away from me
bold locust
@leaden orchid what Nish said and the fact that it homes is invaluable, only a 0 heat run, but maybe you'll be inspired: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/467879468
native ether
Id love to try a run where you only take a boon per biome. Miniboss boons only
That would be an experience and a half right there
placid pike
Forgot how great Infinite Rail and Zeus feels. I got Zeus boon after boon.
native ether
Would it be fair to say this would be the "ruleset" for this new challenge?
Whims of Fate:
Rules:
- Take every Chaos Gate when offered.
- Purchase every Light of Ixon in Charon's Well when able to.
- Run full Tenebrous Veil (-2 options for boons and hammers)
- Use only Weapons improved by the "Dark Thirst" modifier
- Use only the Cosmic Egg, Black Shawl, or Harpy Feather Duster keepsakes.
- No Rerolls with Fated Authority.
Full utter chaos and randomness
No choice whatsoever (well I guess not but /shrug)
You know what would be fun though. A parody of Rainbow mode from EtG in Hades.
placid silo
Well, there goes my idea
grand osprey
Does anybody know how does lambent plume work now? Because I see that now time varies in rooms and isn’t always 30 seconds
errant narwhal
yeah, you need to kill all enemies before the little clock runs out, I think it’s below the plume
grand osprey
Okay, I will check this out, thanks!
lime pumice
hey there, does anyone know the math behind boon rarity ? i saw my brother get a legendary one recently, while i never have (in about 20 runs)
ie if you get lots of boons from a god, are the chances you'll get a legendary boon from the same god higher ?
native ether
Legendaries and Duos are separate from the standard "Rarity" offers
green birch
So in order to get a legendary you need certain other boons from the god
native ether
But yes you're generally correct. Legendaries are only offered when you grab enough "prerequisite boons"
Typically its a "Tier 1 Boon" (An attack or move modifier) and a "Tier 2 Boon" (A boon that modifies that attack in some way) to get a "Tier 3 Boon" (Legendary or Duo)
As an example: Ares' "Vicious Cycle" Legendary can only be obtained when you have a Blade Rift boon (Cast Dash or Wrath) and a "modifier for Blade Rifts" such as increased size or duration.
So assuming you take the right boons for the legendary you need at least 2 others for most gods (Dionysus is unique in the fact that he requires Festive Fog and Poison, as well as a Poison modifier, so getting "Black Out" needs 3 other Dio boons, not 2.)
lime pumice
i see, thanks a lot !!
native ether
Duo boons are typically more common just because their pre-requisites are easier to grab (like the Aphrodite/Artemis one is just "get weak on an effect" and "get crits on an effect") but they require boons from multiple gods
lime pumice
ya i've gotten a ton of duos
native ether
same chance of getting a duo or legendary if you have the right boons afaik
stable oyster
Ok so the shield special attack in flight is great
Allows you to proc privileged status much easier
lime pumice
i guess i don't usually go for the same god multiple times ahah
native ether
afaik rarity increasers also dont affect chance for duo or legendary
but i could be wrong there
i dont have specific numbers
wary knot
Do the Chaos increased money acquired blessings affect how much money you get for purging boons?
vagrant hearth
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/487971708645539840/616098085973524484/68879369_2910764182481273_1416694618988216320_n.jpg
me last time i was up against megagorgon
grand patrol
NHGVHNVHNFVHJFHJ
vagrant hearth
i was using the shield! how did I keep getting stoned so often??
wet dagger
deflect so bombers nearby get turned to stone instead?
crude forum
Does giving multiple ambrosia to gods increase the chance to find them more in a run? Or is it full random?
analog sail
it's random, except when you use their keepsakes of course
fresh tree
Actually it seems lately they tweaked so it isn't completely random. It seems after you take a boon from a god you run into them more often. Probably they did it so we can complete builds and have better chances with final boss. (but this is just a theory based on experience)
green birch
When you take a God’s boon the chances that you’ll see them is higher, yes, but you also have higher odds of encountering their 3 most compatible gods too.
drowsy plover
Oh wow, I took the heavy slug upgrade for once on the Rail, and it's completely fixed the rail for me? I can use it, i feel powerful etc.
drowsy plover
idk if this should be a feedback, is this consistent behaviour from other traps?
in styx, the spinning blade didn't despawn when I cleared the room
errant narwhal
yeah seems to be consistent
drowsy plover
sweet, ty!
it lived out it's lifetime til it collided with a wall. was the first time I'd been struck by a post-clear trap, so wasn't sure
errant narwhal
Yeah pink arrows in elysium keep going as well, and the poison clouds from the floor vents in styx
drowsy plover
it took me so long to notice those floor vents kicked out poison because the frickin rats were chasing me round
welp, I might have a winning rail run for my first time (0 heat tho) going to shoot papa and hope for the best.
yelp, mb not
turbid needle
Heavy Slug is one of my favorite Hammers.
wheat elbow
@cursive flint Someone probably already told you, but you can get burst shot without true shot.
Coming from someone who hasn't taken true shot in weeks but takes burst shot regularly.
cursive flint
wary knot
L a r g e
Was that an Aphro greater call crit?
I'd be worried if it was anything else tbh
cursive citrus
yep thats exactly what it is
hit >11k on last boss too
Marked effects have become my favourite playstyle by far
pastel jolt
ooooof
sacred grotto
Hello people ^^ may i ask smthing....i'm unsure if relative speed (Hermes legendary boom {your dash makes nearby foes 50% slower for 1sec}) works on bosses like say Hades...any clue on that?
autumn tapir
eager crater
Hopefully the 'a very small beetle lands on the Prince, ending his run' gets a Hypnos call-out someday.
turbid needle
Tell me when you break 14k with your Aphro crit.
native ether
Hermes Slowness effects do not work on bosses
indigo olive
double checking, lambent and butterfly, if you do fights with them and then equip something else, you lose the buff entirely right?
pastel jolt
yup
indigo olive
boo...
past crescent
whats the best weapon? i just bought it and the shield is kinda good i tend to use the special at most ant it pretty good if u get the hades dmg thing on it or artemis crit and dmg boost 😄
grand patrol
pearuhdox i love that feedback its so funkyyy
native ether
Thanks!
The idea of the curse is to slow you down (presumably) but it doing damage is more just rather annoying and downright unplayable in final biomes.
grand patrol
just chaos messing around in there! held back as if they held u by the scruff of ur neck like a kitten
yup!
grand patrol
HFJDHDJXJ
native ether
I need an image of an overexcited puppy on a leash with Zagreus's face and chaos is on the human's face
grand patrol
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
JDJDHFKDJXJG
that curse+slothful is just a "dont move" run
native ether
Yep lol
wheat elbow
If you guys want to see my true random run, it is up in #self-promotion
finite grail
I'm a little late to this but personally i wouldn't be a fan of adding a delay to dashes instead :( It just seems like it would frustrate me more than straight up damage which is understandable
especially if it was random
unkempt pagoda
just have chaos randomly give you input lag
river sequoia
i was able to beat hades while loosing less than 200 hp
new record for me and im hyped
native ether
gotta say having damage on dash is much more annoying than a delay
one of them you can play around if you're smart, the other one just punishes you for using the most important skill in the game tbh
turbid needle
https://imgur.com/a/Ty3gC18 yay, under 20 minutes
limber cipher
i just had to fight Theseus and minotaur without attacking, thanks to chaos
somehow i beat theseus at least, but bull man was too strong
hollow minnow
Any advice for the spear before I go in?? I always think "maybe THIS time I'll be good at using it", but then never am!! 💔
@limber cipher seriously!?!? whoa!!!!!!
wheat elbow
With the spear, you usually have smooths sailing with both charge attack hammer upgrades
limber cipher
mostly cuz i had lightning rod. things OP
(its the artimis/zues duo. blood runes on the ground deal 100 damage in a small aoe every second or so)
i almost always get chaos in the first area, which i totally remember the name of
limber cipher
just got to room 5 with 200 heat!
wet dagger
man... something about Ares/Athena duo straight up plays the game itself. Zag just walks into a room and half the things are already raining self-damages
https://imgur.com/2dNe64l
vale sphinx
(Ares/Zeus, right?)
wet dagger
Merciful End - ares/athena - deflects trigger doom!
but this crazy luck did also give me Ares/Zeus duo as well!
so basically most of the Olympians were blessing me..... to see the glorious statue reward
stable oyster
@ripe iron I saw your feedback about sack ring and I agree, I’m trying to popularize a run category where you go to all 5 rooms regardless of sack rng
gloomy scroll
hoLY no one told me Hermes' legendary was insta-recall casts
turbid needle
It is my favorite boon in the game.
turbid needle
@gloomy scroll well... he has 2 legendary boons
first is Relative Speed that makes foe slower by 50%
gloomy scroll
ok that's interesting
turbid needle
second is recall which is too good with Ares casts lol
Relative Speed is not that great.
woven kindle
Ares/Artemis/Hermes Recall is absurd
gloomy scroll
yeah makes sense
turbid needle
I also find the Dionysus/Aphrodite/Ares together kinda op level
gloomy scroll
you could build some insane damage with certain things
turbid needle
Relative Speed makes it so your Dash has a slowing pulse like Athena's, Aphro's, and Dio's dashes have pulses, but it only lasts one second and it's only 50%.
Compare to his regular slow Boon, which does 90% for 3 seconds on all enemies that contact you.
woven kindle
Yeah I think I've honestly picked +1 dash over relative speed before xD
turbid needle
+1 Dash is still a huge gimme.
If I didn't have a very particular build Greatest Reflex is often your best choice.
Congratulations!
woven kindle
But when you're picking a common over a legendary it just seems strange
turbid needle
I've skipped other Legendaries, though that doesn't mean they're necessarily weak.
I think Relative Speed just needs a major buff or rework.
I mean...
best example of normal boons vs legendary boons is kinda artemis
Mark vs Legendary boon is kinda unfair lol
hearty pilot
e x t r a p r o j e c t i l e
turbid needle
It's pretty viable with Flurry Fire Rail.
but still totally outdone by her Duos
yeah if you have big attack speed and pressure points with mark....
I'm mostly okay with Support Fire because the rest of Artemis' kit is so good.
it's kinda gg moment
hearty pilot
speaking of artemis duos, ive seen praises for lightning rod but ive found it to be not that great?
turbid needle
I'm not exactly that into it honestly
hearty pilot
then again i do use casts for extra damage bonus which apparently is not run a lot on higher heat
woven kindle
The last 2 bosses move way too much for lightning rod to feel that worth it honestly
turbid needle
It's a very cool concept that doesn't pan out too well.
yeah, basically
Activating on enemies who are currently carrying a Bloodstone would make it more worth it.
I would have to hit more slowly, of course.
hearty pilot
i guess it synergizes well with exit wounds and quick reload
but trying to make a pure cast build is difficult
turbid needle
unless you play gun or spear lol
There's also the matter of it working against cast builds because you want to pick it back up as soon as possible.
And Greater Recall completely negates its usefulness.
and you need Quick Reload to even enjoy usefulness of it
possibly even Fully Loaded for more stones
so that's a lot of requirements for something that has meh power level
hearty pilot
cast in general is an odd position rn
turbid needle
Nah, casts are a totally viable build.
... almost feels like Pierced Butterfly to me, but yeah I hate pierced butterfly
woven kindle
I've only really had ares and zeus cast builds work, but that might be intended
turbid needle
Casts... are quite strong to be honest
Aphrodite is also very powerful, and Lightning Phalanx made Athena pretty nutty.
woven kindle
I've tried a few times to get phalanx and it just never happens 😦
turbid needle
let's be honest... Aphrodite is probably most broken god in the entire game lol
She's certainly up there.
hearty pilot
they can be. but if i try to go in with making a cast build, not only does rng rarely favor multiple cast boons that don’t overlap, but its very unclear whether sgg wants casts to be supportive or destructive with some clunkiness sprinkled in between
turbid needle
By far the easiest to use to a clear screen.
best damage multipliers in game, 50% damage reduction effect, amazing utility, damn... even Call is strong
hearty pilot
i would nominate aph for being the strongest simply for her legendary
15% charm on weak effect makes hades perma-stunned essentially
turbid needle
and if that wasn't enough, they put the best part of ocean bounty on her lol
and I'm like... what the hell
I've literally never picked up Life Affirmation.
I thought of that boon's arrival as an Aphro nerf.
hearty pilot
poseidon and dionysus both need some love 😔
turbid needle
Uuuhh, why is my text red?
to be honest... I don't like that Poseidon lost the health bonus
I thought of that boon's arrival as an Aphro nerf.
Oh, there we go.
hearty pilot
i really hope sgg does the whole pantheon with others
turbid needle
Poseidon and Aphro's damage values should swap, change my mind.
Ocean's bounty as it is feels... meh at best, and big screw you at worst with the sunken treasure together
hearty pilot
i wanna see hestia with exagryph
turbid needle
I'm pretty sure there's another Olympian or two planned.
not sure about the damage nerf on Aphrodite, but... Poseidon could use definite buff
hearty pilot
poseidon’s domain being knock away and rupture should be reworked, but im not quite sure what...
freezing?
turbid needle
Poseidon knockback isn't even remotely as strong as it was before
I would like to see Rupture scaled by the initial velocity that sets it.
hearty pilot
imo knockback was never strong except with gimmicky builds
turbid needle
I remember like 2 major updates ago I take multi-skewer and Poseidon special...
Like, Tidal Dash does 5 tick damage, Minotaur Rush Power Shot does 20.
stuff gone pinball
hearty pilot
i want his effect to be changed altogether
turbid needle
Because I like knockback in theory, though not as much in practice, but Rupture is currently very VERY similar to poison.
hearty pilot
and knockback is poseidon’s shtick
i dont like knockback in theory
its crowd chaos, not crowd control
turbid needle
yeah, and rupture + dionysus poison work together pretty well to be honest
Effects should be synergistic.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
hearty pilot
me?
turbid needle
What Wisp said.
hearty pilot
ah
turbid needle
yeah, I think what could be added is kinda the scaling of the knockback with boon level ?
It just doesn't feel that right that it's kinda so weak
hearty pilot
rework his domain altogether
turbid needle
knockback is kinda amazing in some situations but in case of bosses it usually does suck
hearty pilot
its too niche imo
turbid needle
not even usually, it always does
hearty pilot
and very chaotic especially if you’re running pierced butterfly
turbid needle
oh boy, pierced butterfly
I kinda wish ||Styx's shop|| wasn't so important so I would be incentivized to take Pierced Butterfly more.
is it scaling multipilicatively or additively btw
hearty pilot
could extend that to hermes’ trinket as well
hearty pilot
eh, the trinket system is fine as is imo. i feel like it being locked in is part of that whole roguelike experience
turbid needle
yeah, it's good trinket, it's more of my preference
hearty pilot
oh wait, are you referring to trinkets in general or pierced butterfly
turbid needle
pierced butterfly
hearty pilot
ah
turbid needle
I got Lightning Phalanx. 
wheat elbow
Is that the Zeus Athena Duo Boon? Was it that name?
hearty pilot
yes
wheat elbow
I need to double check the name because I am sure that there was nop actual lightning involved.
AMAZING Duoboon though for roomclear.
If you get Zeus/Artemis and Artemis Athena on top of it
hearty pilot
i remember there being a zeus athena duo boon for cast and i know athena’s cast is phalanx shot
wheat elbow
you#re in for a gold experience.
It is actually called Lightning Phalanx.
DOn't even need Lighting Rod, just Athena/Artemis and Athena/Zeus is an amazing combo.
CHaining Phalanx Shot that also gets free crit chance on it's huge damage
tardy talon
Poseidon's knockback is great fun in styx. Hit the wall, trigger another knockback which knocks them into the other wall... repeat until dead. Wiped out entire mini-rooms in one shot
drowsy plover
yeah, it's a shame that knockback builds don't deliver much when it comes to boss fights or certain enemies.
not that they should be universally powerful, but it's such a grind to do bosses and so fun to kill regular mobs.
what if you could knock bosses around but they had a cooldown on being ragdolled?
wheat elbow
@tardy talon Just gave me an idea for a song parody.
turbid needle
hmm... so Lightning Rod effect also works with Splitting Bolt... well, that's fun
and it also works with pressure points
toxic acorn
@safe trellis I think that Aphrodite's maxed gauge + Artemis crit to skip a phase is a really good "cheat" for the game to have. The biggest reason why is just that it stays loyal to how the systems all work. It's niche and is a cool cheat to skip a phase if you know how to set it up. And it really honestly is kinda cool, I really like it.
and I disagree with your first bit because I think her Call is supposed to be used to charm during normal rooms, so it's not really that big of a deal?
she charms waves and bolts bosses and it's pretty strong and that's fine
turbid needle
... "shame that I can't bottle this stuff", when taking fountain on full health... Trinket that let's Zagreus bottle the fountain water? :>
that could be almost like Estus Flask reference from Dark Souls
stable oyster
Anyone have any ideas about how to allow people who played a ton in the beta to experience the full games story without just breezing through the entire game
toxic acorn
that would be a cool way to rework keepsakes
stable oyster
I posted something in in feedback to mixed responses
wheat elbow
I mean, it depends on how you define "harder"
toxic acorn
i personally love that idea
turbid needle
starting with no upgrades with heat... that's some masochism you've got there I guess
stable oyster
But we have people here who regularly clear 60+ heat
toxic acorn
those people are allowed to breeze through the base game
stable oyster
But I don’t want to
wheat elbow
The people in this discord, the people who have been EAing for longer than I have and already have all kinds of achievements under their belt
toxic acorn
so you're allowed to breeze through the base game until they add more challenges
wheat elbow
we are the exception.
toxic acorn
what
wheat elbow
I'd rather see them focus on more impoortant or interesting things
stable oyster
My suggestion was an option that unlocks the pact early and gives you some heat
Like tnwm
wheat elbow
than making the game slightly harder for only a handful of people who'd appreciate it.
toxic acorn
they're going to rework it, aren't they
wheat elbow
God knows I hope they will!
toxic acorn
that might make things better
there will be something
hopefully enemy reworks, boss reworks
stable oyster
As long as they don’t touch my frenzy
wheat elbow
Frenzy is the one that needs touching the most.
toxic acorn
more difficulty in general puhlease
turbid needle
now that I think of it... I would love to have some boon, perhaps even Athena one that could do damage over armor if you overdo the damage
toxic acorn
like seriously, increasing the difficulty of the base game (with a better pact on top of it all) makes the skill ceiling of the game so much higher
wheat elbow
I don't want the game to be too difficult because that in turn will take away the freedom to build what I want.
stable oyster
That’s why heat is wonderful
toxic acorn
and the game is pretty fair in helping you learn how to avoid things through gameplay
toxic acorn
heat sux
wheat elbow
The base game balance is in a very good place right now.
stable oyster
Yea I think the base game is good
wheat elbow
The only thing in the base game that still needs changing are shielded enemies which are still horrendous.
stable oyster
How do amber?
turbid needle
@wheat elbow this
wheat elbow
Amber is a useless resource after 200 which the game keeps shoving down your throat at all times
toxic acorn
honestly i'm not here for this conversation i've had this argument 6 times now but the pact is extremely unfun and punishing in ways that don't work, there are exceptions but all in all, it needs a rework
wheat elbow
while the pact options themselves are eitrher horrendous themselves or, in most cases, not fun
toxic acorn
exactly yes
wheat elbow
Also, the difficulty per heat invested is absolutely off.
stable oyster
It’s a different kind of fun
toxic acorn
that's unimportant when the options to make the game harder are not also more fun
wheat elbow
Like, the one that makes enemies have more HP
10 heat for making all fights at least 50% longer?
That all by itself is ridiculous.
Mixing that together with also facing 50% more enemies?
Heresy.
wheat elbow
Making these giant hordes of tanks faster?
toxic acorn
yeah you're not wrong
you're not wrong
but that's not really what we were talking about that was just a one-off tangent
anyways
stable oyster
Well I disagree that the options don’t make the game more fun
toxic acorn
difficulty, heat leads to unfun situations and unavoidable damage
stable oyster
No damage is unavoidable if you play fast enough
wheat elbow
Let us ignore the entire difficulty aspect to the side:
turbid needle
oh yeah, I love the Tenbrous Veil, Shared Misery and let's not forget the thing that makes everything into nightcore version of the game lol
toxic acorn
it leads to situations that break how the structure of the game works in a negative way
wheat elbow
What about rewards?
wheat elbow
I had no reason to do a single heated run in Big Bad because all there was were the statues which I already own.
Yes, this is a part of the topic
toxic acorn
it's not?
the gameplay is the reward
like
straight up
you make the game harder so it can be more fun
wheat elbow
That is your take on it.
toxic acorn
gameplay is the reward anyways moving on
wheat elbow
so for me, the game has to find a way to make it up that I lose gameplay value
Extra darkness is pretty much the only reason for me to even consider doing heated runs
wind vale
thats just a bad idea
wheat elbow
and I don't care about darkness.
wind vale
make the gameplay better
turbid needle
after first 5000 darkness nobody really cares
toxic acorn
yes uenuku, make the gameplay of "high heat" better
because both is stupid honestly you don't need rewards
wind vale
exactly
toxic acorn
you just need to make playing a more difficult game more fun
by adding more fun challenge
wheat elbow
Maybe you don't because you are a humble monk. But there are more than just a handful of people who like to show off.
toxic acorn
mostly through "updating" the current enemy and boss pool
wind vale
also you get darkness from chos, not heat
wheat elbow
An achievement here, a skin there, a fancy title whereever
wind vale
so its really no reward
wheat elbow
"chos"?
wind vale
chaos
stable oyster
The reward is mastery
wheat elbow
I don't understand how chaos factors in all of this
Heated runs give you more darkness
toxic acorn
i think he means if you want to farm darkness you get that from chaos
not from high heat runs
wind vale
better do lots of chaos +darkness multiplier on easy runs
wheat elbow
It is not what I "want"
It is that farming darkness is the only benefit you get out of doing heated runs.
wind vale
its the challenge and the statues
wheat elbow
Let us look at other games then:
wind vale
and thats fine
wheat elbow
Enter the gungeon has a few settings for making the game different or more challenging
all of them give rewards.
turbid needle
those challenges are also there to play differently in Binding of Isaac
wheat elbow
Ingame usable gameplay rewards, not just cosmetics.
@turbid needle Now THAT is a good point!
Why not make the pact make the game "different" instead of just "harder"?
toxic acorn
actual gameplay rewards from heat i don't agree
unless the game starts adopting unlockable items or something crazy, but it's not going to do that, so that's irrelevant
and that's the isaac + gungeon + others argument
turbid needle
Hades works on entirely different nature though, that's true
wheat elbow
It is a dungeon crawler that gives you randomized boots to make you more powerful.
Sounds exactly like most roguelikes to me.
wind vale
isaac had the bad idea to unlock all items
toxic acorn
because all the items are unlocked from the start, to get more gameplay outta the game you have to drastically increase the skill ceiling and make that climb fun
that means increasing the difficulty in fun ways
wheat elbow
Not all the items are unlocked from the start.
turbid needle
I could even say since the RNG is somehow tame in this game compared to others the challenges such as these could be harder to make
wheat elbow
You have to unlock the weapons bit by bit.
wheat elbow
Say what you mean then. That doesn'tz devalue the fact that you have to unlock the weapons anyway.
And the keepsakes, too.
wind vale
also isaac challenges were often easier than normal game
wheat elbow
Speed Challenge.
toxic acorn
keepsakes and weapons are unlocked very quickly
wheat elbow
They don't have to be.
wind vale
but they should
wheat elbow
It makes for them to be easily accessable now because we are in early access.
turbid needle
true, Ambrosia isn't big problem... keys are kinda a wall at beginning
wheat elbow
They could go and change that up for the sake of longterm playability.
We will get a six'd weapon soon.
wind vale
please no
toxic acorn
ambrosia will be reworked, i like how keys work mostly