Hahahahahahah
#h1-builds-and-combat
light nova
Minotaur don't deal rush damage at +50% speed of Pact
What a fair 120 heat run
It's lagging a lot but clear that he do not damage me
18 second
errant narwhal
did you report it with F10?
errant narwhal
nice ok! :D
light nova
first at duel then at this fight
errant narwhal
im still in tartarus and im getting all the gods i want without needing to wait to switch to their keepsakes.... feels good man
i got aphrodite's aid >:3c
and pressure points >:3c
light nova
Do you like aphrodite's aid?
@wheat elbow yea, was checking how is it possible to make 120 heat run for 36 mins
with some bugs - possible
wheat elbow
I will upload the video tomorrow or so.
But I had other runs that were around the same timeframe.
errant narwhal
it does a lot of damage now
im very happy that artemis and aphrodite are a powerful combo again
errant narwhal
ahh, died to theseus and asterius again. im really sad i didnt get to see this in styx.
i cant wait to play with a mouse that responds to my left clicks and a keyboard that actually registers when i press the spacebar....
tawdry jackal
guys, did something happen in this update 0.20003?
like
my game is all jittery and the frames are around 30 now I dont know why
my aiming is really weird too
errant narwhal
might be worth bug reporting and mentioning the performance drops
lost rose
@tawdry jackal 20003 was just a couple crash fixes, shouldn't be affecting your performance. A windows update was pushed recently that might also be causing trouble if some settings changed or whatever - in the meantime there's some stuff you can try to address it in #hades-tech-fixes-old
grand patrol
hvhjgvhjfvhjfvhj in the name of someone very sore right now
light nova
Yea ahahah i love these phrases
my favorite one when Hades at the start of run says something like " your brathers are death and speed. Which god are you? There is no god of talking back to me"
grand patrol
there is now.
grand patrol
YEAH
dire crystal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423945387544543232/612645622440263682/unknown.png i guess people dont think that this money boon is that op lol
just so many upgrades and so many high level ones at that
wheat elbow
And somehow still no wrath or dash
dire crystal
ares and artemis wraths werent as appealing as 35% crit chance on deflect and... well just using my special and call
wheat elbow
To me, it feels like getting a dash attack is always incremental to a run.
Getting a Dash creates damage and utility where there hasn't been any before.
dire crystal
dash coulda been good but artemis dash is again kinda just not worth and i didnt need deflect dash when i had deflect special in a massive aoe
wheat elbow
I mean, more deflects never hurt!
dire crystal
lol
wheat elbow
I actually had Athenas dash on some of my more important or impressive runs.
dire crystal
took extra health on defiance lol
wheat elbow
My 120 Big Bad Clear as well.
dire crystal
nice
wheat elbow
(I also cleared the game using nothing but Athena Dash once)
But that was during the High Speed Update I think.
dire crystal
ahhh nice
wheat elbow
That one I have on youtube.
dire crystal
lol
wheat elbow
I also tried to do the same with Dionysus Dash, but.....yeah, that one ended in disaster.
dire crystal
yeah i mean dashes can be very good, im especially fond of the ares dash myself
wheat elbow
Soul Catchers ended that one because I had no way of getting butterflies off the screen.
And it was common rarity too!
wheat elbow
The dionysus dash is a bit more damaging than one might think because it actually deals instant damage as you apply the poison.
Five per application
It's pretty neat actually.
wheat elbow
The true winner is his Wrath Effect thoughö
That high damage poison ticking on enemies is just
❤
wheat elbow
It is the only Wrath effect that gives you an on demand status effect as well.
dire crystal
linear scaling on upgrade is incredibly good
wheat elbow
I kinda feel like I could have made an 120 heat win with Dionysus work as well.
Or Zeus
dire crystal
mmm
i tend to run high damage artemis cast or bow for my high heat runs
just gotta pick those skulls carefully
wheat elbow
I am bad with the bow so that ain't no option for me.
wheat elbow
Yes.
The bow, I need triple shot and/or explosive shot.
Otherwise, expect me to hit my attacks
never
dire crystal
lol
i play on controller so hitting is a no brainer really
just about timing and positioning
dire crystal
rip
austere pebble
Git gud
wheat elbow
Poseidon is a fun god to go hard on in Styx.
Some of the rooms, you can full clear with one attack.
dire crystal
oh yeah
wheat elbow
Like, legit, had his entire engine on Tidal Dash.
Did one dash into the room
everything died.
light nova
@wheat elbow i didn't like it XDDD boring thing that i can't take what i want and whenever i want
dire crystal
ive done that with shield aa double hit, gets 6 knockbacks off of it instanty out of a dash and the wall slam just murdered
wheat elbow
How can you take whatever you want whenever you want with a regular 500 Darkness build more than with 750?
light nova
I don't take less darkness in my build
wheat elbow
Ah, never mind. That was Nish.
Yeah, you two basically become the same person in my headcanon.
light nova
Funny word. Sounds like head-cannon
dire crystal
maybe an arm-cannon
light nova
Cannon-cannon
wheat elbow
A cannon that fires cannon.
In Enter the Gungeons, there is a weapon called "Bullet"
dire crystal
which update is gonna add the ability to cast into the lava and fish
wheat elbow
It is a bullet that fires guns
the fired guns fire bullets in turn.
There is also a weapon called "Shell"
it fires Shotguns
dire crystal
also the letter r which fires "B U L L E T"
wheat elbow
Or other words in combination with certain Items
dire crystal
yup
light nova
@neon umbra what do you mean +3 +5 +8
i didn't understand
i see
This is an option for new players actually. Ofc it will heal you for 180 hp for 60 rooms but if they gonna make more healing for 1 room entering they will make game much easier.
I think so and maybe it will be good to make it 4 hp for 1 room but no more now
native ether
The only reason I disagree @toxic acorn is because I find it boring to use. I agree that it's power level is probably fine, but it doesn't feel like an impactful choice to take in the mirror.
So maybe not a buff, but a bit of a rework
toxic acorn
it's boring yes but it doesn't need to be any stronger
native ether
Mirror upgrades in general feel a bit boring, if im being honest
light nova
lol
native ether
with the exception of some of the later ones (Boiling Blood, Privileged Status, Fated, and the Rarity increasers) some of them are kind of generic stat boosters
wheat elbow
Most simple number changes are
wheat elbow
I still want a spear special run where I make good use out of the explosive launcher.
Until then, though, getting a few 1500 crits out of the vicious skewer will suffice.
neon umbra
@light nova no I mean instead of +3 use +5 or +8 for higher chambers because there are alot of way I can get 1 shoted
Let's say hp is 100/100
S.rats 3
Bigrats 20
Poison and laser at least 4-15 similar to lava
Axe 30
I can die easily since there a lot of things happening i can get hit and lose I lot my run that way so for higher chambers atleast make rate healing higher so It doesn't seen unreasonable
faint carbon
that would make the game too easy as a baseline imo
I prefer the idea of the reverse pact of punishment that someone was talking about
for people that are struggling
wheat elbow
I mean, there are three different kinds of healing Charon offers in his wells that can be utilized.
Especially the Eye of the Lamia has been gureato
Especially on my heated run attempts.
50 coins (after convenience fee) for three (crowded as hell) rooms full of enemies having a chance to drop health goodies is a-amazing
Hydralite, much less cost efficient but still 45% of your HP
Then there is the direct healing you can purchase from both Well and Shops.
Some treasure chests have HP.
Over the course of a run, you will find 4-7 healing fountains.
Keepsakes with healing abilities also exist.
The ability to buy death defiances and centaur hearts (and those dropping) also comes to mind.
Two NPCs can heal you or give you extra life as well.
Oh, and three gods offer boons that give HP regen and/or death defiances too.
woeful stirrup
Just did my first run since the Big Bad Update came out. Loved Temple of Styx, felt very different with the multiple small rooms and the permanent shop. Nearly died to Hades but managed to win with my trusty bow (was especially proud since I had no attack boon until the Temple of Styx itself). Also love how the game gets away with not having an epilogue yet. "Pretend for now that the Lord Hades absolutely clobbered him".
rancid egret
I didn't realize the number of attempts to escape progress the story, not how far you get in your escape.....face palm
cunning zealot
Made the same mistake. I beat it in current state on run 34 and 35, so I started adding Heat to make it more difficult...I'm getting dialogue that everyone's all happy I made it to Hydra 
rancid egret
in my case- the game crashed when i just started- someone one was nice enough to try and replicate where i stopped
but i hadn't really payed attention to the runs xp
so im like o.o///so im skipping lots of dialogue
wheat elbow
I am getting close to 500 attempts
not sure if that will yield any special dialogue.
rancid egret
and i only beat the bone hydra once >o<-- so i guess that was a fluke....cuz it kills me every single time . ☠
light nova
@neon umbra i truly can not believe that
If you have 100 hp being in Styx and you can't aviod all attacks so you should have more hp XDD
opal lintel
Can someone tell me if Aphrodite's cast values are now total damage or per-bolt?
I'm being offered a Heroic exchange that claims it will do nearly 200 damage and I can't believe that its 200x6
even though I know her cast can be strong and it used to show damage per bolt
errant narwhal
hey, you could try it and solve the mystery!
opal lintel
I definitely can science
I'm not wed to Dio's cast so I'm not losing much
was just hoping someone had picked up the boon on this patch and might know offhand
cuz I'd be passing up Life Affirmation to test it (I'm in tartarus and that's a LOT of potential HP)
opal lintel
if this is a 1200 damage cast I'm taking it and trying to go all caster build
but otherwise.... yeah
errant narwhal
opal lintel
anyone know?
errant narwhal
ok when you put it like that it sounds kinda like there’s no way it does that much damage
opal lintel
well yeah that's what I thought but I've had it doing similar damage in previous patches after chaos upgrades and poms and ares buffs and such
I've never seen Heroic Aphrodite so in my mind its completely POSSIBLE
it just seems too good to be true tho
errant narwhal
You could go for it and hope for another Aphrodite for life affirmation?
There’s always other runs too
opal lintel
well yeah there's always other runs
errant narwhal
Not every one has to be a winner
opal lintel
if I don't get a definitive answer in a few minutes I'm just gonna take it for science and move on
im just kinda sitting in the select window while doing other things atm
ok Cast Taken and it appears that the damage is Total - its doing just under 200 damage by the looks of things
its probably better this way
I was confused when I first saw Aphrodite cast on release because the damage number was even lower than base cast (but obviously hit 6 times)
displaying the cast's total damage in the Boon Selection window provides a much clearer idea to a new player of what the cast will actually do
but for any players used to the old damage numbers - the science has been done
be not fooled by promises of one shotting the Hydra
terse tiger
So i've noticed something with Fated Authority. In the rare case that I would want to use more than two rerolls (like desperately needing a specific boon, etc.), The third reroll will almost always revert back to the previous boon.
Example:
Starting boon: Athena
Reroll one: Artemis
Reroll two: Poseidon
Reroll three: Artemis
I have noticed this happening since I started playing (before Elysium biome update). I would say this has happened to me around a dozen times. Not exactly statictically sound, but a significant pattern nonetheless.
Has anyone else experienced this? Also, keep an eye out for it if you find yourself using more than two rerolls. I'm going to do some trial and error to try and reproduce it enough to report it as a glitch. In the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty minor concern, but it still is disappointing when my supposedly random rerolls have a pattern like this. Let me know what you have seen or experienced.
covert grove
@terse tiger Yeah that's how rerolling the miniboss doors work basically. The only thing that can make it change from what you described is if you have 2 miniboss door exits offered at once.
terse tiger
Interesting.. so you have only seen this with the miniboss doors? Do you think this is intended design?
I thought I have seen this pattern on all gold laurel, but I haven't paid that much attention. It's entirely possible that this has only happened to me on miniboss doors.
placid silo
Do you need Ares' aid for the blade rift boons to spawn? Or is cast enough?
cunning zealot
Anything that creates a blade rift should allow the rift buffs to spawn. I've gotten them multiple times from his dash boon
unkempt pagoda
@terse tiger olympians are gated into separated pools that are chosen at the start of a runs, so rerolling one pool will loop back into itself
i’ve noticed that the pools, while chosen at the start of a run, have certain tendencies, like zeus and poseidon almost always being in the same pool
opal nest
the 3rd boss is soo long with a bow and low dmg
wheat elbow
The video of my 120 heat clear is up now by the way.
Give it a watch, I make it worth your while.
vestal snow
Oh man, just had an amazing Aphro/Dio run with the Rail, made it all the to the second form of the final boss
Aphro/Dio is such a strong combo, because it's so easytovet two consistent status effects on enemies
woeful stirrup
Can confirm, Reatun. Not too hard though, once you get rid of the Minotaur, Theseus is quite easy to dodge.
So, takes a long time, but you can easily succeed at least.
turbid needle
I haven't fought Theseus solo since before they removed chariots from the fight, but I used to recommend killing Theo first.
Dodging chariots + god attacks + untelegraphed offscreen spear throws made him harder than solo Asterius.
covert grove
@terse tiger Regular rooms kinda follow the same pattern to some degree, but since they can offer Gold, Hearts and Poms it's not as likely. It's true what Onyx said about the pools, there's a 99% chance that rerolling Aphrodite gets you Ares, and Ares gets you Artemis.
woeful stirrup
Killing Theseus first is awful. Because at some point you get the god attacks while Asterius is still there. Asterius solo is fine, but Asterius plus midlife Theseus is a pain.
turbid needle
Most of the time (I think Zeus and at least one other Olympian are the exceptions) he will stand still completely unguarded when he hits half health.
That is the best time to facetank and burn his HP down quickly.
(I really really really really really hate the blocking mechanic. I think I wouldn't even be sad to see it go for the shield if it meant that Theseus didn't block 4-digit crits by turning left)
cunning zealot
Wait, do the chariots not spawn when you kill Asterius anymore? That's the sole reason I focus down Theseus first...
nova flame
No they don't, they took it out some time ago
opal nest
chaos into the if you attack you take dmg... next room is boss. Big oof
turbid needle
Gotta check your chamber count before you take any Chaos boons.
grand patrol
tbh i only take chaos rooms in tartarus....its too risky later
turbid needle
I'm not against taking Chaos later, but generally speaking you want a more specific Olympian/boon the later you get into a run.
And just systemically, Affluence and Favor are better the earlier you get them.
opal nest
survived against snake boss but got the bull guy not long after while still cursed :/
turbid needle
RIP
cunning zealot
My life is a lie 
Totally gonna wreck Asterius first, now
opal nest
does flawlessing a boss give any extra rewards? i have yet to do so myself
turbid needle
Nope.
cunning zealot
Has anyone ever gotten solid use out of the Hermes and Thanatos keepsakes? I've tried them and it always feels like there's a better option to take
faint carbon
pre-styx I only used the pierced butterfly, now less so but it's still solid
turbid needle
^
faint carbon
hermes was also pretty decent but it got nerfed
I don't think anyone really likes it with the nerfed values though
turbid needle
If you can build Butterfly stacks through Elysium I think it's still worth taking.
woeful stirrup
It's solid. I got up to 25% damage increase, and I could have gotten to 35% had I not been hit 1 time in those 4 rooms.
faint carbon
issue is schpoon, if you're using butterfly you miss out on spearpoint for styx
which feels too good
woeful stirrup
Same with Hermes, the dodge chances are nothing to scoff at.
Main issue is that they're harder to build up late in the game. Ideally, you'd get a God keepsake in Tartarus to get an epic attack/special to start your build, and pick butterfly/feather in Asphodel.
faint carbon
nooooo
woeful stirrup
But that would mean giving up on the main chunk of boost you could get out of it.
cunning zealot
Do you keep the damage/speed buffs after removing the keepsake, though?
faint carbon
no
woeful stirrup
True. But having an epic attack instead of a regular one will give you more of an attack boost than the butterfly could ever give.
cunning zealot
That's what I thought, that's why I never liked them
faint carbon
then don't take the butterfly, it's not worth it without the amount of % you get from tartarus
woeful stirrup
What would you pick instead?
turbid needle
Chthonic Coin Purse.
faint carbon
a god boon to get you towards a relevant duo, the coin purse, or spearpoint upon hitting styx (maybe elysium)
cunning zealot
I'll usually take coin purse into Elysium, and save what I can for the shop in Styx
woeful stirrup
I very rarely get combo'd, so spearpoint is not of much use. Doesn't matter how much I fulfill the requirements, I never get legendaries or duos. Coin purse I could see with the Styx shop.
turbid needle
Spearpoint is more for poison in the tunnels.
woeful stirrup
Only did one run post Big Bad, but never had trouble with poison.
cunning zealot
I hate having it for final boss fight, though, so I take the money early, then use the collar for Styx, cause I'm a noob who wants more health for when I use all four of my respawns
weary wigeon
Always take Spiked Collar because Cerberus is a good boi
turbid needle
Then Myrmidon Bracer is also a good choice for Styx.
faint carbon
^
I don't think spearpoint is bad for the big bad either
there's quite a few times you can take multiple hits quickly I think
weary wigeon
Spearpoint is helpful for the second part of the fight
faint carbon
yeah
weary wigeon
First half doesn't have as many stacking attacks
I'm also a fan of the bracer
But occasionally Big Bad's spinning attack will count as hitting you from behind
if you dodge a part of its hitbox
wheat elbow
There is also an argument to be made about the enemies Hades spawns.
Between the big soul catcher and spear heroes, the spear head can end up being amazing.
It also helps immensely against his laser attacks.
wheat elbow
@wet dagger Asterius actually will not be at max HP if you fought him solo before the double at the end of Elysium.
Not sure how much it is, but if you look at their healthbar, something around 20% is missing from his.
wet dagger
@wheat elbow ... guess was too busy button mashing at Theseus to notice!! Gotta runthru again and look much more carefully. Thanx!
unkempt pagoda
i mean i find it pretty fun when i have a lot of health and dds so 😶
toxic acorn
I'm pretty sure the post is saying that it's too much, which is very very true
next remnant
I'm having trouble with the dash attack. Does it work for all weapons? It seemed the Rail weapon doesn't have it...
wind vale
all weapons have one but for some it isnt nearly as visible
rail is just a quick normal attack and the normal one after it comes with practically no delay -only really useful for the shotgun build
next remnant
and the dash attack with heavy slug upgrade?
nova flame
had a run today with rail + infinite ammo + epic attack speed + athena legendary boon for additional projectiles
yikes
nova flame
when something says, attacks that can deflect make foes exposed - no need to deflect something, right?
as opposed to after you deflect gain crit chance - only after you successfuly deflect an attack?
vale sphinx
Yes and yes
nova flame
thanks
native ether
I don't really have an issue with how much health you can get because stacking health improvements usually means you're trading health for another upgrade
I think the instances where you aren't doing that (kind of chaos boons, thick skin) are where health improvements ought to be nerfed.
vestal snow
Yeah, I feel the same way. I honestly don't know how you'd get that much health without specifically trying for it, and you don't like having that much health, why are you trying so hard to get it?
I think 225-250 is maybe the most I've ever had
vale sphinx
Once I got the aphro hearts buff / dio ambrosia buff, I got quite a bit of hp that run
Fun fact, I don’t think they actually stack, you still only get 25 per bottle
median ridge
highest health i’ve managed to get was 500. and you have to start a run seriously intending to get as healthy as possible with specific god and boon choices. also death defiances are super expensive now, so the cost itself limits how many you can get from a shop. more can be acquired through boon choices, so it’s just another strategy that players can use if they want to
sometimes i’m just in the mood to face tank the final boss
wheat elbow
Yesterday, I learned that it seems to be theoreticly possible to beat the game at 100 heat with just 100 darkness.
cunning zealot
I got really lucky one run...got the epic aphrodite boon that doubled all hearts, made lots of money and had two or three DDs spawn in wells, and then Patroclus for another one. I think I made final boss with 4-500 health and 5 extra lives
But I was also pretty low on damage, so it took me forever to kill him...I was out of DDs by the time I finished
eternal stag
also again, you can choose not to take health boons or buy death defiance
hell, if you find it unfun you don't even have to take the mirror upgrade
i don't have a problem with the current balance because the last boss is hard, and anyway people who are bad at games should also have options to enjoy them
that's one of the things i really like about sgg games, actually
i like that they cater to multiple difficulty levels
cunning zealot
^ agreed. And I'm not at all against the DDs or the mirror upgrades. If anything, it allows very meticulous difficulty customization
median ridge
the importance of obols with the styx shop makes it so stacking DDs is much less tempting because if you do you might miss out on important upgrades. it balances itself out
drowsy plover
Hey, just joined the discord. How are people feeling about the Artemis upgrades for raw damage critical hits? I can't seem to use those boons effectively compared to others. The most useful I've seen crits be is on a poison or doom build, not a pure physical damage one.
I also stacked a lot of Artemis boons (although didn't snag the legendary) using the railgun + infinite ammo + hermes attack speed boosts, and it just felt very underwhelming, am I doing it wrong?
I was also wondering how other players felt about Poseidon builds losing most of their effectiveness against immovable foes (looking at you, Hydra)
would some sort of extra damage vs immovable foes be viable (after all, you are hitting things with enough force to slam them back, where does that energy go?), or do people think this weakness is fine and something to play around?
broken cipher
Speaking as someone that usually runs Sword, Artemis is incredibly useful, even if you're not stacking status effects for a Privileged Status boost. Her attack boon, Deadly Strike is incredible if you're taking the Cruel Thrust hammer upgrade because your thrust already gets a boost to Crit or even Flurry Blades since you'll be attacking more often. Then stack the Empowering Nova on top of that so your attack has an extra boost to Crit when you use your special. If you also pick up Artemis' Deadly Flourish special then you're already looking at a ton of Crit chances. Even the Double Edge or Double Nova hammer upgrades are great for this since they proc these attacks twice. And if, perchance, you have Athena's Divine Dash and you then take their Deadly Reversal duo boon so your Crit chance rises after you deflect...well, you'll be critting a lot.
Can't say anything about Poseidon besides that he's incredibly useful for Styx since I don't build for him often.
wheat elbow
I never take the thrust because I rarely if ever attack three times in a row.
If you want your attacks to crit, the boon that makes your special give your attack 25% crit chance is gonna be a better choice imo.
broken cipher
Fair enough. If you've got Dionysus or Ares on your attack you really don't need to. Status effects take care of that for you regardless. Hunter's Mark also makes that kinda useless since you'd be switching targets... 🤔 Regardless, Artemis can definitely be a reliable choice for pure attack.
turbid needle
Empowering Nova is kind of the best one-boon crit setter in the game, especially since it lets you take Athena or Aphro on Attack for the much much higher attack bonus.
wheat elbow
Out of the sword boons, yeah, absolutely.
In general, I actually do like Vicious Skewer. Simply because it gives the most consistent crits.
turbid needle
Those should be averaging about 100 damage, right?
If you're backstabbing consistently, at least.
broken cipher
If you have Aphrodite on attack then you'd want to pick up Sweet Surrender too. Nice damage boost, at any rate.
turbid needle
SS, Heart Rend.
broken cipher
True.
wheat elbow
I had the Spear Special with Vicious Skewer crit for close to 1500 on one of my recent runs.
A lot of stars aligned for that to happen though.
turbid needle
How did you get your initial hit that high?
wheat elbow
Took a lot of work and planning.
Had Armor Skewer, Vicious Skewer, I think Heart Rend and Athenas Special + Debuff.
One of the armored goons that Hades summoned was unlucky and took that 1440 hit as my special shred through his armor.
Against Hades, I saw very consistent 970 crits though.
turbid needle
Are armor damage buffs multiplicative?
wheat elbow
I am not sure. I really don't take them all that much.
turbid needle
I never do.
wheat elbow
There also just aren't that many either. From the top of my head, I can only think of
four?
One for the shield bullrush, armor skewer for the spear, one for sword attacks and Artemis has a boon that makes her crits deal more damage to Armor
turbid needle
Every weapon has at least one armor-piercer.
wheat elbow
(I could have had that one on the run as well, but I said no to it sadly)
turbid needle
Piercing Fire, Piercing Barrage.
broken cipher
I've only ever taken Hide Breaker with Armor Slayer so...since it already relies on crits I really can't say.
wheat elbow
Only Artemis among the gods though. I think
I gotta say, one thing about Hades is that everytime I go for something unorthodox
I end up being positively surprised and amazed.
turbid needle
Armor damage would help more against Hades than most other bosses.
wheat elbow
Hydra would be the boss where it is most helpful against imo.
For one, it has the most armor phases but also, having it that early means that you will also get two more floors of worth out of it.
turbid needle
True.
wheat elbow
Getting armor damage in Styx or Elysium would feel like a big old waste overall me thinks.
ashen bloom
can you guys explain me the rooms that we are able to enter if we have enough heat
I mean, are they a good option to go into?
faint carbon
if you can do them without getting hit, yes
broken cipher
Erebus? The challenge rooms are...if you're running Shield then yes.
turbid needle
I'll run any Erebus room if the reward is good enough.
ashen bloom
do we get 2x prizes or something?
turbid needle
Opening Hammer offers Heavy Slug, Infinity Chamber, and Explosive Fire. I take Heavy Slug, all of Tartarus is Zeus and Dio. 
Okay. Managed to reroll Bloodless Dionysus into Athena and got Rare Divine Strike. It'll be okay. It'll all be okay.
And the opportunity to reroll my Call again for Heroic Athena's Aid. Tempting.
drowsy plover
to clarify about artemis, it's that I feel her raw damage increase doesn't give me enough base damage to compete with some of the other boons, it comes closer when it crits but that feels less reliable than stacking poisons etc.
turbid needle
I can see that.
The best way to run her, frankly, if to get Athena and Aphrodite and run her bonus crit modifiers, not her own offensive boons.
drowsy plover
I expected with infinite clip railgun, critical attack, her +% crit damage, and boosted attack speed to churn out ludicrous damage, but it was so lackluster, and involved a lot of standing still and some very loud constant gunshots.
turbid needle
Pressure Points into Hunter Mark isn't as directly consistent as it used to be, but if you level up Hunter Mark any group fight almost immediatley becomes a joke.
Yeah, that's a terrible feeling.
drowsy plover
I agree with that, it seems artemis compliments a mixed boon setup better than strictly her own set.
especially given that she holds most of the best casting bonuses?
wheat elbow
The more instances of damage you have the better pressure points marked becomes.
turbid needle
If you can pick up Rapid Cast and Greater Recall with just her...
wheat elbow
Pressure points with Marked on a blade rift run for example.
turbid needle
I had a run right after the Beefy Update with the old Freak Accident (lightning on crit) and old Hunter Mark (applied to target you crit, refreshed and stacked itself as you accrued crits) and threw three Hunting Blades at Asterius.
Once the first lightning bolt finally dropped, every subsequent hit had one accompanying and my game slowed down as they took a full quarter of his health off in one throw.
drowsy plover
That's an incredible reaction, it's looking for that kind of broken set up that really got me into binding of isaac.
turbid needle
That sort of stuff has been tamed.
Now you set a Mark on something, Press F to Pay Respects, and Aphrodite crits for five digits.
drowsy plover
My most busted run was shield with the aoe dash attack, and a bunch of poseidon boons, including his legendary double-knockback, and water burst when they hit walls. couple of non-aimed dash attacks cleared groups fight in styx rooms.
turbid needle
"He's a pinball wizard, there has got to be a twist..."
drowsy plover
I don't mind things being tamed though, I got that run before poseidons knockback scaling was removed, it was very silly.
turbid needle
Gotta make the player work a little.
I would like Second Wave and Sea Storm to be fully functioning on all enemies, though.
drowsy plover
yeah, I'm fine with some builds having weaknesses, that's healthy to balance around, but it feels frustrating to lose probably 90% of your damage potential on some enemies. If there was some niche boon you could take to mitigate that (eg, if foes cannot be knocked back, they take % of the velocity in damage)
wheat elbow
That would be neat now, wouldn't it?
turbid needle
Well, that's what the change in Rupture was supposed to do.
drowsy plover
I'm assuming you meant on Hydra, and the butterfly-spewing chaps?
wheat elbow
I actually prefered Rupture before. I don't know which one is better for damage, but the previous one was such a fun concept.
turbid needle
Maybe calculate the "launch velocity" for Rupture and have that as the set tick rate?
It's very similar to poison right now, which is unfortunate.
drowsy plover
what was rupture previously? I am very late to the game, having played it after big bad update
wheat elbow
Gotta say, I don't think they needed to change Rupture all that much.
There is next to no enemy in the gaame against which it'd be useless.
turbid needle
Rupture had enemies take DoT according to how fast they are currently moving.
wheat elbow
And plenty enemies against it was/would have been amazing
drowsy plover
Ooh, that's pretty cool.
turbid needle
So with Poseidon's old knockback, enemies would go flying and take big damage, but bosses who you previously could not move at all would take no damage.
turbid needle
And since it was a DoT, you had Bloodless jumping all over the place killing themselves by increasing the damage they took.
wheat elbow
Which was potent against the furies with their dash attacks, the minotaur for example as well.
drowsy plover
although now they take fixed DoT which is way less than poison, and doesn't stack?
wheat elbow
The only "boss" against it did not deal damage was the soul catcher.
drowsy plover
gotcha, thanks
Last question i wanted to ask before I dive back in -- does anyone feel that the fast sword attack should work with mouse button held down? (like the spear version.) It was getting tiring to click that fast through the whole run. I don't see any upsides to requiring lots of clicks.
turbid needle
Yesssssssssssssss.
Same with Rapid Shot on the bow.
(I hope those changes are made)
wheat elbow
I don't know, man. Even after the buff I just don't feel that hammer boon.
It's not even only that most sword attack boons are mediocre
they also have to compete with the Nova boons that are busted
and ebenefit from special boons all being stronger than Attacking Boons.
turbid needle
I'd rate Super Nova below Flurry Blade or World Splitter unless you already have Double Nova. Double Nova is far and away the best hammer in the game right now.
And the increase in damage doesn't scale well outside of Tartarus, though I guess the bigger radius helps a lot in Elysium.
wheat elbow
Double Nova Super Nova, both individually and together, are amazing.
The higher range actually makes challenge rooms a bit more feasable too.
drowsy plover
well, for the fast sword attack boon, if you manage to snag Aphrodites legendary boon it's very busted. I had all the bosses charmed about 90% of the time.
well, minotaur up to big bad.
turbid needle
I don't see how Volley's existence makes Flurry Blade charm bad.
drowsy plover
I don't see why Volley exists tbh, I only use it to apply statuses I don't have on my main attack.
wheat elbow
You get way more instances of damage in way less time without having to spend a hammer on a bad upgrade
while still having the option to actually pick amazing ones to add to the strategy.
drowsy plover
well, I think it's a very situational upgrade.
drowsy plover
if I hadn't snagged a good legendary, that speed of attacks wouldn't do much benefit besides wear out my finger and mouse button.
turbid needle
Autofire would make it more efficient.
drowsy plover
speaking of fast hits, what's the most effective boon for multiple hits?
turbid needle
Poison.
drowsy plover
crit, poison, raw damage?
turbid needle
Specifically Low Tolerance.
turbid needle
No, Dio/Aphro duo.
I've never seen Black Out when I'm actually building around poison.
drowsy plover
it might just be me, but I'd like some kind of boon that gave you a bonus to damage on a fully poisoned target. I know stacking poison is it's own reward for the dps you'll get, but an option to reward overdoing it could be neat.
drowsy plover
I like the Dio cast for with bows.
wheat elbow
I like the cast with the rail.
turbid needle
I'm just saying, I've never seen it, because Chaos is a snitch and never gives me the right boons when I'm looking for a particular build.
wheat elbow
6 bombs
drowsy plover
I know losing out on boiling blood is a thing, but all those big cast boons are a lot more fun for me
turbid needle
Boiling Blood doesn't scale super well outside of Tartarus.
drowsy plover
I had to remap my special to my mouse after using the triple bomber on rail.
wheat elbow
Dionysus' Legendary is twice as strong as boiling blood and affects everything
wheat elbow
One and only remapping I did was changing cast and dash.
Reason for that is pretty much only that I played enter the gungeon in the past and dodge rolling there was done with right click and it felt naturally for me.
I also felt like the cast felt very awkward on the RMB for me.
I just don't use casts constantly enough to have it on such an accessable button.
drowsy plover
It isn't used often enough to merit rmb in my runs, that's for sure.
I really love cast, I think it stands out a lot and feels unique to the game, but I've not gotten much benefit from it, unless I really invest in it.
wheat elbow
That is arguably my biggest gripe with casts.
drowsy plover
I'm still pretty new though, < 40 runs
wheat elbow
You need investment or specific weapons to make me use it.
And if you wanna use it, most of the time, this implies that Artemis is going to be involved.
drowsy plover
I'd like cast specific boons (more ammo, drop speed, auto collection) on something like Daedelus Hammer (but not the hammer) I feel like Artemis having them was from early development of "she is the ranged god" but I might be wrong.
idk, artemis feels like she offers very different boons than other gods, it feels like there are 6, and then hermes and artemis.
turbid needle
You're thinking another separate item from Daedelus Hammers and boons? Even Hermes' boons?
drowsy plover
like a Daedelus Hammer item that is specifically for cast upgrades, it's probably just a personal feeling, but it seems 'unfair' to Artemis to split her attention so much.
rancid egret
any tips for fighting Asterius ? o ^o;;
drowsy plover
you can dash through pillars to make him run into them when he's charging. keep your distance and hit from the back where you can.
turbid needle
After his swing-swing-jump attack, if you keep your distance, he will do two more jumps. If you get up close and personal, he will do two more swings almost immediately.
I find the edges of the arena to be a little more consistent in stopping his charge. Just dash directly along the wall whenever he's approaching. If he's coming at an angle, dodge towards him along the wall, he won't turn fast enough to avoid stopping.
rancid egret
does anyone bother to try and kill the medusa heads- or do you just try and ignore them while mainly hitting Aste ??
turbid needle
If you have distance from Asterius, go for it.
drowsy plover
I get them where I can, while dodging around the arena, and thanks for that wall tip!
turbid needle
Do NOT root yourself in place or leave yourself open to Asterius if he's in range.
rancid egret
getting frozen gets me good a lot of times, >.< but i don't like to stop running from the bull- xp
drowsy plover
are you using a bunch of weapons or one in particular? I find the shield made him very easy
rancid egret
and thanks 8D
yah- im mainly a sheild user
is he the main boss for this lvl or the mini boss ?
drowsy plover
I could be wrong, but you can block anything he throws at you by holding your charge attack, just sneak in one shield bash then do a bull rush through him, rinse and repeat.
:0 asterius is a good guy and you'll know true pain when you find the answer to your question.
wet dagger
or just have Athena's deflect blessings .... so helpful
drowsy plover
yes, the dash is the one for me. although her attack boon works nicely one the sword too.
broken cipher
Whether or not Athena appears on a run usually makes or breaks it for me. T~T
wet dagger
@rancid egret i bash the medusa heads so my Wrath bar fills up. Puts fight into easy automatic mode for half of it really
@broken cipher thats why her keepsake!
rancid egret
even with the block,it just takes so long for me to kill him,😭
turbid needle
Aaand a Styx door locked itself to Athena and Dio across four rerolls. Very cool, very cool.
broken cipher
True, but I usually take the Artemis keepsake first because I need that Crit damage. XD And after that it's all Broken Spearpoint.
rancid egret
but ill try those tips,thanks guys
wet dagger
im only good at sword or shield..... and Styx rats with shield throwing are the life!
drowsy plover
good luck! the asterius is best boy
drowsy plover
Why do you taunt me this way ;'c
bonus for early access || signed portrait of asterius ||
does "bonus % attack damage" apply to dash attacks, or are they seperate?
wet dagger
now how does anyone get past the light show that is Big Bad form 2.......
rancid egret
I like all the characters so far, their is this interesting since of cordiality between most of them, even though the situation is quiet dire
broken cipher
Immediately dash behind cover. Or, if you have Broken Spearpoint and status on attack, dash directly into him.
drowsy plover
except that one sister who doesn't have a lot to say, Bituji
rancid egret
or maybe its just because the prince is just very tempered with everyone-
rancid egret
Tis-whats her name @drowsy plover lol,she is just doing her job..and seems like she has some problems
since she can only say one word- poor dear
turbid needle
Tisiphone.
drowsy plover
I like that zag tries to chat anyway.
grand patrol
can you blame her, whom among us does not have a script for work 
and yeah! he tries!!!
turbid needle
I don't have to talk to customers. 
broken cipher
Lucky.
rancid egret
I wonder how difficult it was for Hades to explain the job to her, or maybe he just let her be confused
drowsy plover
oh chaos, too tempting. I took a "you can't attack" curse right before the hydra ;_;
broken cipher
"There's an escaped murderer on the loose, trying to get out of Hades." shows picture of Zag
turbid needle
So I'm doing a 25 Heat run with nothing but Vicious Torment.
I pick up the Satyr Sack, I've got full health at 175, but there's one hallway with Athena left. I'm out of Death Defiances. This won't go poorly, right?
17 health, no DDs.
Blood.
And.
Darkness.
Big rat side-eyed me for 122 damage.
Oh, man, new dialog with Hades, too.
Aaand down to the very first hit.
drowsy plover
I once saw "perfect landing" when I jumped down, is that for pressing a button as you land?
lost rose
Yup
drowsy plover
does it have any effect other than fill me with pride?
lost rose
I think it slightly changes your RNG
turbid needle
Wait, what?
drowsy plover
that's really cool. it's a nice easter egg too
boy howdy, that was the longest hydra fight i've had. just throwing my shield (35 damage a go) to victory
lost rose
Not significantly but I think I heard it changes like the very start of your run slightly
No real long term effect on your seed tho
broken cipher
Oof, Bumble. But you did it!
drowsy plover
used on DD on it, but feelin good
turbid needle
Can you get Vengeful Mood entirely from Revenge boons?
drowsy plover
10hp and no DD in styx 😂
turbid needle
RIP
drowsy plover
I am going to see my mother 😠
broken cipher
OOF
And I think so but let me check the wiki.
drowsy plover
nvm, seeing papa instead, rip
turbid needle
Okay, picked it up. This run might be saved yet.
Nope, poisoned across the room from the nearest Mandragora.
rancid egret
So I randomly got Ares like 5 times,and it was so cool >x<, but then i saw that chaos gate and had to try it.Lose Hp for 4 turns if you dask to get the skill effect..so i thought why not ? then I ran into the Hyra 
drowsy plover
Bituji did you get out of Elysium yet?
broken cipher
Oof. Got him down to 20% HP on phase two. Those urns. Every time. Had I one more death defiance I could've made it. Alas. Even Epic Greatest Reflex was not enough.
dire cedar
HI friends, I just cleared my first 15 heat run. I want to do a 60 heat run. With the new boss as Hades, what do ya'll recommend?
unkempt pagoda
any of the non-combat heat options
you could try shared misery and focus fire on hades
broken cipher
Made the mistake of picking up a god boon whilst still poisoned. Didn't realize it wouldn't clear and uh...lost a good half my health on that very, very bad move.
errant narwhal
that sounds unintended.
neon bough
Hey there, do you know if Hermes' item works on the temple of Styx's small rooms ? What counts as a room ?
lost rose
It doesn't work on the small rooms, no, only on the full combat chambers at the end of each tunnel.
neon bough
Ok, would be broken otherwise, thanks !
nova flame
shame that stuff from charon's pool thinks otherwise 😃
broken cipher
@distant rose About your feedback on the Sword benefitting from a charged attack: To me it feels like that would slow down the pace of combat a lot. I think the wonderful thing about the combo is that you can keep pressing the attack or break it off to deal with another threat at any time. A charged attack means time spent not attacking or dashing which is time spent vulnerable at close range to an enemy or at risk of being hit from afar. The air time on the special is already exposing Zag for longer than preferable but the AoE is worth it. With the thrust only really having the plus of knocking the opponent back, it's simpler to use the special since that also has the bonus of destroying incoming projectiles at all angles to reduce some of that vulnerability to long ranged opponents as well. While it would benefit Cruel Thrust and be a slight increase in overall damage output it'd be less useful than the combo or the special alone with leaving you with both their downsides: needing to time it right to hit before an opponent can dodge since it targets in a straight line and leaving you momentarily stationary. It'd also make the Sword play a lot like Spear: with Sword's thrust and nova having more or less swapped places with Spear's basic attack and spin, just without the benefit of a proper long-ranged attack like Spear's throw.
blazing mulch
https://imgur.com/ouFzvLO
Cast build- 7 artemis casts, auto back, 4.15s to get cast back, just missing 90% speed auto cast from Hermes sadly. 35% crit after deflect from special- nuts 🙂
broken cipher
Only think that could've made that better is Exit Wounds. Unless I'm just not seeing it there.
white sinew
Holy crack man, is it just me , or Redacted is OP?
wheat elbow
Depends on whom you ask.
If you ask me? No.
If you ask me after 120 heat attempts? Hades yeah!
If you ask Hades? Apparently not.
white sinew
I mean, my walkthrough looks like a "no hp loss run" until I reach Redacted. A then he just kick mo arse. 
blazing mulch
@broken cipher no exit wounds sadly. I done the run with mixed feelings, nothing goes as i wanted . Even choosing god keepsake doesnt rly helped
white sinew
What would you say, if I couldn't beat Redacted after 26 runs (total), am I bad as heck?
lost rose
seeing as there's at least one character who isn't even introduced until 23 runs in? i'd say you're doing pretty well
white sinew
But, when I think about the fact that Redacted is the last boss and there is nothing after him - game seems kinda... short. And it feels kinda not worth a time to go for him again and again, when you already can tell that this is the end.
Or I am wrong about "last boss"?
lost rose
Pretty sure he's the last boss. The game also has at least 5 months of development still to go, and probably more than that
faint carbon
the game is designed to be played many times in order to unlock all the dialogue options etc, and if the game ends up being too easy during that time then there's the pact of punishment to make it an additional challenge
just defeating the "last boss" doesn't mean you've experienced everything
white sinew
I think this is about gamepad sensitivity or something like that.
pastel jolt
@light nova the "dead zone" refers to the area aroudn the center of a joystick which wo't respond to movement
basically, how far do you want to have to push the joystick in order to make zag move
light nova
okey, not my problem 😄 thx
broken cipher
@blazing mulch It's even more impressive that you managed to pull off such a great build then! Congrats on the win~
white sinew
@blazing mulch How many attempts, brah?
opal nest
the butterfly trinket seems strong, first floor seems you can easily get 20ish percent bonus dmg and that's better then the conditional dmg bonus trinkets
faint carbon
butterfly is solid, doesn't scale well into high heat / styx though
wind vortex
I like Butterfly a lot and haven’t really experimented with too many trinkets beyond it
Chaos egg seems right up my alley in terms of how I play these games, and the Hermes trinket sounds good on paper at least
faint carbon
hermes trinket isn't worth taking since the nerfs, and I don't like the chaos trinket because you know the second you pick it up you're not gonna see any chaos gates lol
wind vortex
The desire sensor is real man
turbid needle
Desire sensor?
faint carbon
"The Desire Sensor detects what rare item, or event you are farming for, and prevents the game from giving it to you."
turbid needle
I've seen the Pierced Butterfly pushed upwards of 50%, which is really hard, but it does happen.
Ah.
Yeah, I don't touch Cosmic Egg anymore.
wheat elbow
Gotta say:
Athena/Zeus Duo Boon is amazing.
If you add in Athena/Artemis, it becomes disgusting.
If you add in extra ammo and/or burst shot, the rooms basically clear themselves.
broken cipher
That's some great luck! No room rerolls?
Actually, just noticed there's a video, ignore that question.
wet dagger
How does desire sensor just knoooooow. Was hoarding coins for like 5 runs inna row to buy Aphrodite decor, and suddenly no Well has it
run with 2 coins to name - every room has Well, every Well offers the Aphrodite item 
turbid needle
Bruh. Bruh. But then you finally get it.
formal hill
my condolences Anna 😂
i remember doing runs specifically like "im just gonna go for the cosmetic stuff > BO "
and managed to luck out
wet dagger
the pain is real
formal hill
you'll get it eventually!
wheat elbow
@broken cipher Enjoy the view, mate. Had a good amount of fun with that one!
broken cipher
That one reroll into trial of the gods. 👌 Incredible.
wheat elbow
I love it when that happens.
broken cipher
"Artemis Aid is pretty bad". Ouch. That hit me where it hurts.
broken cipher
Interesting, I never considered the utility of Athena's cast against Flamewheels. That's almost better than Dying Lament or Peer Pressure vs rats in Styx.
That. Okay. So. Clearly that's effective against bosses. Wow. Uh. Huh. Asterius and Theseus went down really quick.
native ether
afaik trials can appear in Elysium
i think ive been offered them there a couple times, never taken them though
turbid needle
Ive def had trials in Elysium
wet dagger
flamewheels and butterflies.....bane of Elysium
wheat elbow
Yeah, that bossfight was hilarious.
The build was perfect for fights against 2 or more enemies. Asterius and Theseus never stood a chance.
native ether
Trials of the Gods can appear in Elysium, definitely remember seeing some. So that's just extreme luck. Its likely they're rarer since there's just less choices offered and there are less Elysium rooms than there used to be.
wheat elbow
I am very sure i never saw any in the High Speed Update either.
I seem to have a very faint memory of having seen one. But it is a very faint and uncertain memory.
native ether
I've seen them in the High Speed update, I'm pretty sure they're just much rarer due to how rooms generate
Considering I see maybe 1 per run, it makes sense they don't show up often in Elysium.
broken cipher
That was such a clean victory. Wonderful. Took what, two minutes?
Also, butterfly ball spawner...things are awful. Just, no matter the build I take on Sword I burst them down first because no, they are the worst. Even better is when the final boss spawns them into the fight. 
At least Flamewheels eat a special and just flicker out on the edge of AoE range. Various weapon heroes? Dash attack constantly and their projectiles will miss. Small rats? Dash with damage takes care of them, no problem. Giant rats? AoE zoning again. Satyrs? Deflect boons. But the butterfly ball? Pure suffering. Especially the miniboss where you have to stand there whittling away at it while other enemies spawn in.
native ether
Butterfly Balls are my favorite mob
wheat elbow
Soul Catcher against Hades can be decent if you have Marked.
Can serve as a nice conduit to get the debuff onto Hades for a generous part of the first phase.
uneven pike
Hey everyone, i don't know if this is the place to ask or the gameplay room, i "finished" the game yesterday but i'm still missing two of the gifts (i think they are called artifacts?) anyhow i know one is from Thanatos, which i find strange i have yet to encounter given that i already beat the final boss, but the other one i don't know where to get it, i have all the ones from the gods and the other npcs, is there someone i am missing? I'm on my 23 run if that helps, sorry for the long text.
south comet
If i recall correctly you need around 23 runs before Thanatos will start to show up, so I would imagine in your next couple runs he should appear!
wet dagger
for Thanatos, also take damage in rooms....he shows up after 5th or 6th
your other missing....have u run into Fallen warrior in elysium? his has been least common for me
south comet
yea i think its probly the fallen warrior as well
uneven pike
I was guessing i would finally meet thanatos given that his brother (forgot his name) finally mentioned him, i will take damage in the first rooms then.
That must be it then, i've only been in elysium two times, so maybe that's why i haven't seen him
wet dagger
after u finally run into him, he will show up back in HQ sometimes too
Fallen Warrior encounters will get new Achilles talks too!
uneven pike
Ok then! it was driving me crazy who was the last one but now i know, i think because i couldn't play for a couple of months and then returned until the last update i missed a few things by ending in no that many runs, i'm guessing the same goes why i have fought against meg in almost all my runes and the other furies just one each
But anyhow, i really appreciate the help from both of you!
wet dagger
not 100%, but doesnt amount of heat also affect which Fury u get? anytime my run is over 15, Meg stops showing up
wheat elbow
Meg is one of the harder bosses on heated runs imo.
Meg with 50% more enemies is just heinous.
All the enemies she spawns.
Tisiphone ain't having any of that while having fairly simple to understand patterns and attacks is the easiest to deal with.
Alecto is a nightmare under frenzy. She becomes so ridiculously fast when she is fully enraged.
uneven pike
From what i understand of what i read here, it seems the more runs you have , the more varied the bosses go (i think) i'm assuming now that i have met the furies i will meet them one a piece for each run, heat only makes the game harder (and better rewards) from my understanding (like all the other supergiantgames)
Do bosses change patterns?
turbid needle
Not to my knowledge.
wheat elbow
The hydra used to change some patterns under frenzy
vast eagle
i think the smoke stuff in asphodel is funny bc the more it blurs the screen it actually hurts my eyes because i'm trying so hard to focus
wheat elbow
But you find that Frenzy changes a lot of how the bosses feel for you.
uneven pike
Meg to me is the hardest of the furies or maybe i just got traumatized by her being the first boss when i was so damn weak, while Alecto and Tisiphone were easy for me,like very easy, then again i only faced them once
Sorry for sounding a little dumb but frenzy is when they throw like their specials like crazy?
turbid needle
Frenzy is increased game speed.
faint carbon
I find tisiphone the hardest but i've faced her the least so i'm less familiar with her attack patterns
wheat elbow
Frenzy is the pact option that makes enemies move faster.
Tisiphone really becomes easier the more you face her.
faint carbon
I imagine so
faint carbon
i've always found meg easy even on all levels of heat though, but shield op lol
wheat elbow
But the first you learn to deal with, the letter is now easier to deal with.
uneven pike
Oh , i have yet to play with heat, that's why i didn't know (i'm too coward to try it , one day maybe)
I still struggle with meg , i'm guessing it has to do that you don't have that many boons or leves when you met her
Compared to say the later bosses when you have a more robust build
wheat elbow
Depends on how far down the rabbit whole you are imo.
If I goi by how strong my builds feel as I face the bosses, I would say the bosses are, from easiest to hardest
For a non-heated run
Theseus/Asterius > Tisiphone > Alecto > Meg > Hades > Bone Hydra
wet dagger
Meg's pattern is easiest for me, Tis is made of pain and suffering
wheat elbow
I feel like Theseus and Asterius pop up at a point in the game where your run is usually so strong that I can steamroll them. But I do have loads of rerolls to get to the point.
wet dagger
Alecto still have trouble with, because of her traps layout....they hit me more than she does! (she also barely shows up in my runs)
wheat elbow
The furies are fairly tame overall and can be dealt with somewhat easily.
lost rose
are we going by "fastest" or "least likely to get hit" when we say easy?
wheat elbow
Hades, oince you get to him on a non-heated run, similiar to Theseus, you become so loaded that you only really need to do proper damage control.
The Hydra though
That one is just always such a bad fight.
broken cipher
Tisiphone and Alecto are nice to face. They don't spawn a million and five extra opponents so you can just focus on bursting them down. Tisiphone is the absolute best since that's just dodging once in a while. With Alecto you have to also dodge blade rifts and make sure not to step into traps.
wheat elbow
Simply because it takes forever and needs you to deal so much spread out damage.
I never had a run that made me feel fully comfortable about fighting the Hydra when I did.
uneven pike
I do believe like you said it depends of how your build is when you fight them, what i meant is that you have more levels or boons in your build when you fight later bossesand that's why it makes it easier for me at least (all my comments are from non-heat runs)
wheat elbow
What I set just now puts that into relation.
uneven pike
To me easy is when i don't get dealt a lot of damage, the theseus one has been easy for me the two times i have arrived there because i barely get hit, however i think i'm a little slow in ending it
wheat elbow
For the furies, all you need is two or three good boons once you reach them.
I usually leave Tartarus with 5 to 8 boons
so I usually feel pretty well off when I fight them.
uneven pike
Damn man, i leave tartarus with like 2 boons or something, i always go to the doors that give max health or upgrades to my existing boons , weapons
wet dagger
i hoard coins at start
broken cipher
As far as non-heated runs go, the Hydra's really not that bad. It takes longer than most other boss fights barring the final one depending on your build, but it's pretty predictable. But on heat? That must be an absolute slog of a battle especially since it already has the potential to spawn in a ridiculous amount of enemies and the lunges are pretty quick on normal speed.
Two boons?!? O_O How do you make that work?
uneven pike
Funnily enough i never priotize coins and had the luck to amass enough for the aquilles and the goddess of love decorations haha
wet dagger
double boon rooms in aphodel is where its at!
uneven pike
boons are the ones that you are given by the gods right? I usually have one for my autos and one for my dash
wheat elbow
@uneven pike Just go through Tartarus and/or Asphodel trying to safe money and pick up the Coinpurse Keepsake in between.
That usually makes a simple job of the matter
uneven pike
@wet dagger Double rooms are the ones where you choose one or the other god right?
wet dagger
yes!
broken cipher
Wow. I usually take four and a hammer just to feel safe. o-o" Attack, special, dash, and call/utility. Can't imagine leaving with two.
uneven pike
@wheat elbow I don't know i still don't like money that much althrought it sure is very helpful
wheat elbow
A fully upgrade coinpurse is worth 200 coins.
200 coins are 1 1/3 Godboons
that you would not have without that money.
uneven pike
I love those double boons rooms so the gods get all angery at you and then be like "nah i'm just kidding, we still love you boy"
wheat elbow
The only keepsakes that give you some form of lasting benefit for later floors are the god keepsakes, the hourglass and the coin purse.
The coinpurse being the only one that is guaranteed to be worth your while.
uneven pike
@broken cipher I take all the upgrades i can get for my auto, one boon for auto, one for dash , and one hammer, i barely use my weapon special or the throwable (the red thing i forgot his name)
Really? i have yet to use those keepsakes (thanks for reminding me how they are called) i only maxed the cerberus collar, the skully teeth and recently the aquilles one, but that's because i'm to scared to try the ones that offer more things than pure survival
I'll try using the coin purse and the hourglass
wheat elbow
The hour glass is a pocket pick that not a people use.
I like it, but it became a lot worse with Styx
broken cipher
Ah, that's fair. I don't usually touch the casts either. Though which weapon are you using?
uneven pike
I'll try those in my next runs then, now that i "finished" i will try and focus on upgrading keepsakes and things like that
Casts, thank you haha, the shield, i love that damn shield, i tried the gun a couple of runs but i can't leave the shield , you?
wheat elbow
I really liked Bone Hourglass on the last update because it gave you a bunch of HP regeneration, damage and utility for free.
8 rooms of Hydralite and Eye of the lamia can keep you alve forever.
Stronger casts, more shots are amazing if you have a strong cast theme too
and you get extra MS for super low money or stronger attacks for a bit more money as well.
Taking stuff like that on the shop between Asphodel and Elysium and ongoing wells in Elysium could get you super stacked for the third boss fight
but with Styx having all these short rooms and only very little wells, you get basically no millage.
uneven pike
So i'll try to use it in the three domes before styx and then switch to another one when i arrive at styx, altrought i have to say i got lucky on my finishing run and got the one that gives you food (sorry for not knowing the names yet) and in one room in styx where i got a lot of those tiny rats, they gave me tons of food and helped me get all my health up in one room
vast eagle
anyone have tips on damaging theseus? i can deal with asterius no problem but when i try to attack theseus i feel like he blocks all my attacks
other than dashing on top of him & spamming attack & then dashing away, i feel like there's a better method?
wheat elbow
Attack him from behind or as he is charging some attacks.
Use certain boons that bypass shields.
Blade rifts, most of Zeus' Lightning effects.
Some weapons have piercing abilities, they also damage him through the shield.
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, another thing
When Theseus is at 50% and summons the gods, he is vulnerable for a few seconds.
Using that to go to town against him is always a golden opportunity.
unkempt pagoda
every time he does an attack (most noticeable with the spear throw) he starts walking slowly, so get behind him and mash
athena deflects also work against him
broken cipher
@uneven pike Shield is a great pick, a lot of survivability. ^~^ I tend to stick to the Sword. It's fluid and I don't need to rely on a mouse.
wheat elbow
Another advise would be just watching some youtube videos.
Maybe go for 120 heat runs. They show the enemy bosses at their worst while the player is usually rather weak.
That should give a few pointers.
Me and plenty people post videos in #self-promotion so there is always something worth being watched.
uneven pike
@broken cipher I don't like the sword at all, i don't know why haha, but a friend of mine loves it and is making me consider at a run with it
wheat elbow
The sword can deal riridulous damage, especially if you focus on the special.
One of the fastest/highest damage weapons in the game by far.
Shield with Explosive Return is much better these days as well. Smarter Shield Special pathing really helped that one.
broken cipher
It's very a much an acquired taste, despite it's output capabilities. Long ranged foes are a pain. But it is fast and your dps is going to reflect that. Plus, it has some nice hammer upgrade synergies.
wheat elbow
Paired with a good dash, you have a great run.
Rail and Spear really are the slowest speed.
The Spear has low damage unless you use charge attacks which take a long time to charge.
The ceiling on that weapon can be quite high though, but it usually isn't worth it.
The rail, also being very slow and, in my opinion, the most engaging weapon to use in the game.
It is very fun to play with, but being slow and needing some thought makes the game a bit harder compared to other weapons.
And then there is the Bow. People love it, but I just can't play it well.
uneven pike
I think i have to give it another try to most weapons given than when i played them , it was when the game first came out, so there weren't as many upgrades, boons and such as there are right know, i don't know the damages to be honest (too damn lazy to see that) but i'll try them
I agree the rail is the most engaging weapon given the ammo count and the aiming of it's special, i really liked it, i had the idea that the spear is one with a high ceiling and that's why i haven't tested it
I was just about to ask you about the bow haha, i want to get good with it just because i love bows in games so damn mucho
uneven pike
It was my go to weapon before the shield arrived, then again that was almost a year ago haha
Have to try it with all the stuff from the updates
unkempt pagoda
if you're going for bow attack build, just constantly do dash attacks
bow special can also function as a great shotgun if built right, but very risky
uneven pike
i will look into it, give a test run to see how it goes, i really like the special animation
broken cipher
Have a mentioned how much I love Artemis Aid. Because I do. I really, really do. Full gauge was the only thing that stopped me from getting absolutely trashed just there. Beautiful.
uneven pike
I never had appeared to me, to be fair everytime i get an Artemis boon i go for the crits to my autos
I'm guessing it must be pretty damn cool tho
broken cipher
It's not the highest damaging in short bursts but it is definitely great at full charge. Especially when it's focusing down one enemy instead of spread across, say, several Hydra heads.
uneven pike
I'll equip her keepsake to see if i get it one run at least. Man i hate the hydra heads armor
broken cipher
Anti-armour hammer upgrades are truly a blessing when it comes to that fight. Good luck though~
uneven pike
Funnily enough i always get that upgrade until i reach elysium, until my last run when i got it right out of the gate, man it made all the armor a breeze
broken cipher
Oh yikes. Yeah, it's not worth much when you get it late. Except for the upgraded challenge Styx rooms, I suppose.
uneven pike
Yeah but outside of that it's doesn't have a lot of use given that the other bosses don't have armor , except for the giant ball that throws pink things
broken cipher
That's true. Well, the final boss spawns armored minions...and...that's pretty much it, yes. But it's great when you can get it in Tartarus or Asphodel for a far faster Hydra fight.
uneven pike
Yea, because damn that Hydra fight can be such a drag without it
broken cipher
If you like status conditions then those can do most of the work. That's at least one place they're incredibly utile. XD But the worst part is when it spawns mostly wavemaker heads for nearly the entire fight. With only two dashes that is...an experience. T_T Lost several times to that ngl.
uneven pike
I think those heads are the most annoying, my brain stops when it sees the wave and i get hit by them even if they come from a mile away
broken cipher
That feel! Even regular wavemakers give me that problem, especially when they attack from off screen. Still haven't found a way to properly deal with that outside of praying to get Athena's deflect boon off in time, wherever that happens to be applied. T_T
uneven pike
I know! i don't know if it because i don't time it right or if it get me bad memories from Furi (the game) but damn, i hate those damn waves
river sequoia
hey, i have a quesrion for anyone here listening, should i take a 100% power shot bonus damage or the rapid fire hammer upgrade for the bow when i have the double shot hammer upgrade and the artemis attack boon
lost rose
100% power shot absolutely
green birch
My vote is power shot
river sequoia
aight, thanks yall
wheat elbow
Rapidshot in theory can be very strong, but it makes aiming even more awkward.
river sequoia
ive always used to pick up rapidshot, but ive never won with it
i was able to win this time for my first final boss kill w/ the bow
i was able to get the 300% damage aoe buff that makes my shot speed slower, and i was able to get 500 damage crits
wheat elbow
Yeah, explosive shot is love and life.
nova flame
I just picked it up accidentally on my high (25) heat run
Trying to get familiar with bow dash attack
Got the hourglass for Styx, and had zero pools in all rooms
wind vale
i just had quite a few chaos-darkness boons and the Darkness from final boss alone was 2185 with 0 heat used, lol; only 13k darkness left for my 10 reroll now - ill get it soon 🙂
nova flame
are rerolls not capped?
drowsy plover
is anyone here into roguelikes in particular? I played a bit of RAD because doublefine make rad games, but damn it doesn't feel even 1/4 as fluid as hades. It's really made me appreciate how smooth and fluid all the animations are in hades so far.
I thought I was gonna be like "ope I wish this was in hades, I wish this was in hades" but I just wished I was playing hades instead.
wind vale
yea kinda looked like it when i watched some plays of it was hoping it would be nice
looked really good early but havent seen that many improvements but was hoping they just werent as visible
drowsy plover
(I realised it might be quite off topic to discuss here, apologies, I thought there was an off-topic in the hades section) so far it feels chonky and clunky, and it might be the first top-down roguelike I've seen adding a third axis (height/jumping) and it doesn't really add anything except frustration. Which is a shame because the art direction and the style of the game is really sweet.
grand patrol
(you can use #offtopic for this, its fine!)
drowsy plover
also re: @wheat elbow 's recent feedback post. I understand where you're coming from with specials consistently having better %'s on the boon, I think it partially rewards using often slower special, most weapons (except bow) can hit several basic attacks in the time it takes for one special?
I do have an issue with this system of "special is the same boon but higher %s" though.
There's almost no point in taking the same boon for attack and special.
Dionysis, Ares and Aphrodite all apply conditions with boons, having any of these gods take both your attack and special means (depending on Poms) one attack just applies a worse strength of the condition.
It'd be neat if when you have multiple attacks that apply the condition, if the condition strength was raised for both attacks as a reward showing commitment to god/attribute.
tl;dr it'd be nice if you could viably use only boons from one god, for a theme etc.
subtle shale
I have come to the conclusion that Pain Tolerance might actually be the most annoying Pact effect
wheat elbow
They are all pretty bad imo.
wind vale
and here i thought they were all making the game so much easier that they punish you by it getting boring ...:S
subtle shale
I think the thing with Pain Tolerance is it's percentage based, so weaker enemies are barely effected by it but it makes elite enemies and particularly bosses take years
wheat elbow
I mean, you say barely.
A numbskull has 30 HP baseline.
50% extra makes that 45.
Depending on the weapon you use, that difference is huge early on.
And even if that were not the case
Bosses exist.
wheat elbow
@drowsy plover All Attacks currently in the game deal damage ranging between 10 to 60 base without hammers.
(Only exception being the fully charged spear attack for 100)
Some of those being spammable, others not.
All specials in the game deal between 10 to 60 damage.
Some of them being spammable, others not.
Making attack boons weaker by default at this point is just a random decision imo.
opal nest
is there any point to giving people a gift a secound time?
or should i just use it to trade for other currencies at this point
drowsy plover
I thought (no evidence or facts) that it sped up the relationship growth
errant narwhal
more story and dialogue!
errant narwhal
some more meaningful things like ||petting cerberus and orpheus singing|| dont happen until you gift them more
drowsy plover
huh I thought || you could pet cerberus from the start? ||
opal nest
hermes is where its at, cant believe they even added the option to mute him like how redundant of a mechanic is that, surely just a waste of dev time
drowsy plover
is it for || extra pets? ||
wind vale
strange question: was it always possible with the shotgun build to just hold the attack button and spam dash for some crazy fire or is that new? because it looks so funny
also - that playstyle seems controllable with explosive fire 😄
drowsy plover
Do dash attacks benefit from effects that grants +% attack damage, or only ones that say "dash attacks deal +% "
wind vale
i always assume they do but not 100% certain
i mean they all get the god boon for attacks as well
which is %attack damage
peak talon
Hey everyone, bought the game a few days ago and having a blast
placid silo
Glad you're having as much fun as we do
peak talon
How come this early access title has more content than some aaa stuff? I love this game
opal nest
made with love and passion
opal nest
getting dialogue from the gods when i pick up a boon which would suggest that they are about to offer a duo boon but then don't feels bad man
calm gull
I am trying hard to find something i dont like about this game :)) how i am not bored to die and play again? Got like 45 escapes
@light nova is good that one! I killed him with ares doom skill and exactly that divine flourish
subtle shale
so my game is stuck permanently in the Boon selection menu and I can't select anything? I also can't back out of the menu
lost rose
F10 please!
subtle shale
yeah I got a screenshot
I should probably go ahead and drop that in the tech support channel yeah?
lost rose
We prefer an F10, since it sends us game data, like your save and debuglog
That'll help us fix the issue
lost rose
Thanks!
vague hearth
Can I just say how nice and responsive the game feels
Like
Dashing, attacking and using specials feels so nice
And I don't feel like I'm having to commit too much to any particular action
Obviously the spin slash is an exception but that's meant to be like that
It's really nice to be able to use every tool that I have, and not having any options that are useless is really nice
Each of the gods feels fun to use the boons for
And the enemies feel fair but still challenging
green birch
that's good!
vague hearth
The bosses are awesome, and a real blast to fight
And just
The music
To nobody's surprise
Is incredible. Again.
I'm glad I bought this game, even if it meant using epic store
wet dagger
the track for the floaty island of death in Asphodel! so good!
ok, so wondering if this happened to anyone else's game or do I just have the best luck.
in Tartarus u walk into a room and see Chaos gate on floor....start fighting.... battle ends but the gate icon has vanished frm floor But that "gate open" sound has played
native ether
you mean the river crossing? yeah one of my favorites
turbid needle
The Bloodless.
calm gull
Man the music when you meet Patroclus its sooo relaxing :x i literally stayed there 20min just to listen it
native ether
So @wet dagger I assume you mean a Chaos gate? When it opens the texture of the gate becomes that spacey black texture.
lost rose
@wet dagger It's a known issue. Closing out of the game and reloading will fix it
native ether
huh weird. If you're still in the room I'd bug report that with F10
oh neat never mind
wet dagger
oh ok! i wasnt sure how to f10 what wasnt there.....
only in Tartarus tho, doenst do that in asphodel
native ether
If you f10 the room, it will send all the room data to SGG, so they can find the specific issue 😄
lost rose
We think we know what it is! you can still report it if you want though
native ether
I had a bug once where I entered an Elysium Ares miniboss room only to get a Flame Wheel normal room with obols
I still have no idea what caused it lol
lost rose
weird, yeah
native ether
i think the QA i was talking to about it was just as confused
cause i reloaded the save to reproduce like 10 times and it just didnt happen
vague hearth
So I found a build I'm in love with
Shotgun rail, poseidon attack, more dashes, and artemis dash
I was the wave
native ether
that's a strong build
vague hearth
It's also immensely satisfying and incredibly fast
I wish I had gone with hermes' trinket
I might have been able to escape if I had
vague hearth
True
I don't remember how many times I got hit to confirm that though
Every mook was too far away after the dash blitz most of the time, so I think you might be right
drowsy plover
What are peoples most favourite and least favourite weapons? I can't stop using the shield, the mobility and safety make me feel confident, but I really want to make the rail work for me. I keep picking infinite ammo and acting surprised that I die while standing still.
vague hearth
I like them all
turbid needle
Favorite is the Rail, least favorite is the bow.
wet dagger
sword and shield 4life!
wet dagger
cannot use lance to save my freakin life......
green birch
Sword 4 lyfe ⚔
lost rose
Favorite is the bow, least favorite is probably the rail
vague hearth
I like the sheer amount of options with the rail
like
shotgun
mortar
sniper rifle
wet dagger
Shield with Zeus and Dionysus blessings is basically game on easy-auto
turbid needle
BIIIG AMMOOO
vague hearth
and the mortar works well with every type of normal attack
wet dagger
double so if it flies off for 8 hits
vague hearth
shield is really nice, and I love the dash attack build
lost rose
Shield is Fine
I play shield when I want to not even remotely fear for my life
wet dagger
dash attack is delightful! .....except for Hydra fight when keep landing in lava
vague hearth
I somehow manage to avoid that
Sword is really fun too
I love having the ability to use a t-pose as an offensive or defensive option
turbid needle
Attacking enemies over lava usually means you're staying long enough to eat damage.
light nova
i HATE his green graves
light nova
that's, my love Aphrodite and every Panish gates for heath. No another choise for me
i take a lot of enemies and attack and even speed for them
light nova
Once i made it to Hades with sword but i wasn't prepared for this 😓
subtle shale
I've stopped running with most Pact modifiers until I learn how to deal with Hades better
heck Thesius and the Minotaur still give me some trouble too but Hades is nuts
subtle shale
I'm glad I took Pain Tolerance off because hooooo boy dealing with 50% more health on him sounds like a bad time
and then he has the audacity to meme you by throwing out armored Louts
light nova
I didn't understand, when im buying Infernal Trove i always have 100 gold chest after that. Is that right?
Not even a chance for chest with more gold?
turbid needle
I've had differing amounts as well as health and Darkness Troves.
light nova
hah that's my luck so, yea?
i didn't buy a lot of them, about 5-6 and it always was 100 gold
errant narwhal
the only ones with more gold will cost keys
turbid needle
They all take keys, the more valuable take more.
errant narwhal
that cant be right
turbid needle
1, 2, and 3.
errant narwhal
i swear some infernal troves are free
vague hearth
yup
turbid needle
Not that I know of.