yet, Hydra clapped my cheeks 5x before that
#h1-builds-and-combat
boreal estuary
Also got it but it took me 3 DD! 3! It was flawless run. And here we go.. ):
pseudo totem
Farthest chamber reached 67 :'-(
boreal estuary
How do you count chambers?
broken cipher
For Hydra: I would suggest liberally using your casts to hit the heads across the map in the last phase. And grabbing an anti-armour hammer upgrade so you can melt the others. Also an extra dodge if you can get it. Or Athena anything.
The game does it for you~ There's a path beside the keepsake trophy case in the House of Hades. Walk up that and it'll display the number after a short wait and a voice line.
open cargo
Alex, in your weapons room
boreal estuary
Oh I see. Thanks, Spike!
open cargo
near the door, theres a "bridge" that's broken, stand near the edge and wait a bit
boreal estuary
Ye. ye. Found it. Cool!
broken cipher
^~^ No problem.
open cargo
ngl I love the shield, those blocks / deflects are pretty nice
and saved me a lot
but the sword with the doom damages
boi
wheat elbow
The range nerf on the sword nova is very noticable.
Makes challenge rooms feel even more unsafe than previously.
errant narwhal
wait
broken cipher
That's where dash boons and a dash attack upgrade come in handy. Never stop moving, essentially. Hermes' dash HP recovery is nice for that situation specifically.
errant narwhal
Is native deflect on shield back?
broken cipher
🤔 No idea. Hold on, maybe the wiki knows. XD
broken cipher
Yeah no. It only blocks.
Holding attack blocks, attacking... attacks, bull rush doesn't knock back though attacking does and throwing does its thing.
Wait. Or does it only not knockback with the upgrade...I need to actually use it again.
Nope okay, no knockback on the Bull Rush.
Well, there's always boons to supplement the lack of deflect. Though that is disappointing. But it seems its OP release state has been altered.
open cargo
I mean, deflect + block attacks would be cheesy
gib it back
but so far, been doing well with shield + poison
broken cipher
Sounds like fun. XD
Man, a proper PC setup so I can finally use a mouse instead of this infernal trackpad would be great. T~T Well, that's what keybinds are for.
open cargo
big oof
by the end of the game you can snap the fingers and kill off half of the humanity
what I was saying before the bot yeeted me, my go to set up is crank up the dpi to max and go 100% ape crazy and hit everything in every direction
open cargo
plus, with the cast spell buffed into razor blades fidget spinners
and iirc dash that slows down enemies
broken cipher
You took Ares cast and Hermes dash???
Huh. Huh.
You know what, that's brilliant. No way to avoid your retaliation when they're slowed and the rifts can do their thing while you reposition.
open cargo
not sure how well it works in hhiger levels
but so far, after hydra / garden, works well
but I'd take the doom proc over poison any day ngl
broken cipher
Doom is great. Doom and poison would be even better. Doom, poison and jolted might even be a winning combination. 🤔
wheat elbow
If you want damaging statuses, don't forget rapture.
open cargo
also rapture but
atleast in my case, I don't recall being able to get it except for my shield Q which I don't really use
but in any other gun, bloody yes
wheat elbow
You could get the Poseidon/Zeus Dup Boon, that way, one attack can apply both Rupture and Jolted.
broken cipher
Sounds perfect for a Poseidon/Dionysus/Zeus run. Grab an extra Ares boon and that's settled. Or any combination of the above, really.
Not sure if passing up Aphrodite's weak effect really such a great idea though. Sweet Surrender in particular is useful.
wheat elbow
I say that the perfect run probably would be
Dionysus Zeus Aphrodite Artemis
You get huge AOE damage off Zeus and Dionysus, Artemis allows you to get more millage out of your casts and crits, Aphrodite would keep you tanky while also making your crits stronger.
Should decimate pretty much everyone everywhere
anytime.
boreal estuary
Interesting! What kind of weapon do you prefer to use with this build?
wheat elbow
What does it matter?
Your cast is the star of that show.
Pick whatever your weapon is your comfort pick.
boreal estuary
:D
wheat elbow
I would have said "Don't take the shield" because the knock back it had build in would have been counterintuitive
but now that ain't true no more, so the world is your oyster, really.
@ripe iron I actually had sweet nectar and got a double pom somewhere myself. It ended up giving me 3 levels. Seems to me like it works.
ripe iron
Oh really? Might be different from when buying then.
boreal estuary
My perfect build is:
Shield
Ares: Attack, Impending Doom
Athena: Dash, Blinding Flash
Duo: Ares&Athena
Would be great to add:
Artemis: Pressure Points, AthenaDuo
Hermes: Dash+3
For now not sure about a hammer upgrade. Probably Sudden Rush (fast charge) plus Minotaur Rush\Dashing Wallop\Armor Shredder.
ripe iron
Yeah pretty much. I had that today, one of the easier runs for sure
boreal estuary
Min is Ares attack, Athena dash + Duo. Damage is omg.
wheat elbow
Yeah, that can be a 3 boon win, or close to that.
boreal estuary
As I said before this build allowed me to rich Styx. If only I would play better could probably get to the Hades.
But nevertheless fight with Hades is impossible. One shot is like -1 DD.
wheat elbow
You should check some videos of people who do get victories, find some pointers that might help you.
boreal estuary
Thanks. But I've got some victories at lower difficulty.
But haven't seen anybody plays at 120 heat to learn from. ):
faint carbon
120 heat isn't really a reasonable option atm
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, 120 heat is a different beast all together
faint carbon
on the theseus patch I had like 8 120 heat victories, on this patch I did a save-scum 120 heat run and probably died like 100 times lol
120 heat hades was actually easier than each individual styx room
faint carbon
yeah I wanted to see if it was mathematically possible
which it is
but not reasonable
wheat elbow
I could have told you that and safe you a lot of time.
But this way, you got a nice screen shot out of it!
You actually had my hope up with that one.
With everyone being as negative about the current difficulty, I would have liked someone coming and being like
"It's possible, I did it."
faint carbon
I mean it's technically possible but I don't see it happening lol
wheat elbow
I can only repeat what I said before
I'd give it the good old college try, but as things stand now
- I really don't want to
- The game doesn't give me an incentive to do so.
ripe iron
Similar experience here Nish
faint carbon
The incentive is the Skelly statue
But because early access you already have it
Lol
wheat elbow
It's true.
ripe iron
Yep, the Skelly rewards are what pushed me originally, and now it's about pushing the limits of what can be achieved, for self-satisfaction
wheat elbow
Also, there is really no reason to play the game at heat levels higher than 75 right now.
75 heat is all you need to unlock all the challenge rooms everywhere.
That is the only incentive the game gives as of this moment to use heat.
And you know what?
For me, for the moment, that is good enough.
pseudo totem
Woo. I beat Hades second try
pseudo totem
Crit triple bomb. piercing, heavy slug deflect rounds. Deflect Dodge. Deadly Reversal
Also had greatest reflex to stretch out those deflect periods
Had serious trouble with those rats though
Heavy sniper ain't great for rats
Whole build was based on triple bomb which i got right at the very end XD
Pmsl at the message that comes up to summarise things
ripe iron
@wheat elbow You have your 120 heat reward already?
pseudo totem
Naa all i did pre styx was 50.
Not about to try with the way things are atm
boreal estuary
https://imgur.com/a/tYfxMGx
Father! Why? 427 dmg just ended my life. :D
Yeah. Probably give up on 120 heat runs for now.
wheat elbow
@ripe iron Yeah, managed to get two 120 heat victories in before the update hit. Was pretty happy about that.
Out of sheer masochism, I ended up going for a rail run, 75 heat.
I made the mistake of forgetting that rail + frenzy is a huge no no
ember lotus
I feel like the recovery on sword special is longer
light nova
Tell me please how Merciful End works
And doom effects at all
If im gonna hit with special for 130 then attack for 120 what will work?
Strongest? First? They will stack?
rugged apex
merciful end adds damage
i'm not sure if the stronger effect replaces with the same timer, or with a new timer, or doesn't replace at all, but they don't stack
smoky sparrow
Guys is it just me or Rail is a tier or two below any other weapon?
light nova
It depends on what u will take from daedalus
wheat elbow
Also the pact of Punishment.
You pick Frenzy, Rail becomes P Tier.
Went for a 75 heat attempt. Made it to the Hades fight.
It was a learning experience. He has a spear stroke where he pokes forward. That strike actually hits you from behind.
You stand in front of him, shield drawn and that attack will hit you from behind, ignoring your shield and giving you the myrmidon bracer penalty.
I think I could have won if it wouldn't have been for a terrible Elysium (SHIELDERS EVERYWHERE), one very bad room that took a lot from me in Styx amd the fact that the stupid shielders even appeared in the Hades fight.
Heresy
ember lotus
I'm getting devastated in the last fight. Consistently. It brooks no mistakes. And the invul phases turn it into a real battle of attrition.
Also I don't think any of the boss's attacks can be deflected, only the projectiles
smoky sparrow
Well, I was dashing behind Hades when he was doing his poke (thanks to Hermes and Athena) and it still showed a "reflected" text. I was like - "well, something went wrong here".
I think you can reflect, but it just do zero damage to them so it works like a block.
rugged apex
a pleasing note - impending doom's damage bonus applies after dire misfortune - which makes having both actually really good
oblique raft
Is it just me or does the game not run well when there are too many enemies?
wheat elbow
Yeah.
On my old machine, recording in a room full of enemies would make my game lag superhard.
My new one handles that pretty nicely, BUT
smoky sparrow
@oblique raft More stuff on the screen -> more things to compute -> more power needed.
wheat elbow
in the last update, if I was in such a room, everything going fine UNTIL
I used Aphrodite ultimate.
Now THAT put a huge wrench in my performance.
oblique raft
I have an rx 580. Even if there are 30 enemies, it should still run at a stable 60fps.
Is it just cause it is unoptimized or are enemies just that taxing...
wheat elbow
I have no idea about those letters and numbers.
oblique raft
Cool. But I still wish they could optimize a bit better... Hopefully when the game is done
smoky sparrow
Game optimization is not a slider or a thing you can do overnight. It is often one of the last steps during development.
oblique raft
Optimizing is definitely the most difficult part. But it still has to be done. Thats how consoles manage to run those huge games
wheat elbow
I mean.
Early Access.
Can only speak for myself here.
My old machine was pretty mediocre and mostly a wreck.
I could play the game without any hickups.
Only when I played and recorded, problems occured.
oblique raft
But to be fair, I have no experience with this and I have nothing but respect for them and all their work.
And ya it it still in ea
They made a fun game and I'll continue to play it
wheat elbow
You lost me for a moment at "ea" there. Thought for a moment you were referring to Electronic Arts there, then I remembered what I said.
oblique raft
I'm glad ea isn't making this... Imaging if you have to pay or gamble to start a new run...
rugged apex
my greatest accomplishment this run was never taking more than 26 damage in a single hit from hades https://i.imgur.com/z6ip9lt.jpg
also, uh, deflect is wildly way stronger against hades since it keeps bloodstones from dropping and thus from exploding
wheat elbow
Same with the shield block.
Blocking the cast with that makes it fizzle.
What were your 25 points of heat?
rugged apex
1 torment, 4 frenzy, 20 shared misery
I really enjoy having misery on but a lot of the other options suck
ember lotus
I actually can't. I just punted a 300 health run with five DD stacks and lvl5 artemis exploding launcher. I need to do something else for a while
rugged apex
it's free gold!
oblique raft
I should have grinded out for the statues a couple of updates ago...
ember lotus
Believe in your dreams
rugged apex
also misery doesn't affect bossfights like at all so it's also basically free erebus gates in tartarus
now, misery with other heat options... especially death insurance... nah.
anyway I got hideously lucky that run and honestly without an early life affirmation I probably would still have died to hades even with those boons
wheat elbow
I mean, I don't see how it makes Erebus free. You have to fight more enemies down there as well.
Trial of the gods become a hassle because more enemies spawn, which will also make more god effects pop up.
rugged apex
if I could turn misery up to 150% I would!
oblique raft
Is chaos worth going to?
wheat elbow
In my book:
rugged apex
early on, yes.
wheat elbow
No, never
If you have chaos in front of blue laundrel exits
you may contemplate for a bit about it
but in general, the benefits rarely if ever ouweigh the things you are leaving aside.
rugged apex
take at mmmmmost maybe one gate in tartarus - never pick dash curses because they suck
oblique raft
Blue laundrel?
wheat elbow
Doors you leave rooms through have laundrels around the drops.
Blue laundrels are tradeables like keys and darkness
rugged apex
if you're feeling spicy and want to end up dying to the hydra take one in asphodel
wheat elbow
gold laundrels are things that improve your run like boons and poms
You never want to miss out on any of these for chaos
rugged apex
eh, I might take a chaos boon over a pom depending on what boons I have
oblique raft
I never noticed the design of the doors
wheat elbow
It is not only the immediate thing you lose out on.
Chaos will also just drop you off in a room afterwards.
A room that you did not choose.
That room can then, for example, be a pom
which could have been a god boon if you would have made the alternative choice in the regular room that you skipped out on
rugged apex
chaos will 100% helpfully drop you off in the most useful room.
wheat elbow
Chaos takes away a lot of freedom of choice.
And the only boon he offers that is truly
truly useful
rugged apex
money!
wheat elbow
is the extra gold. Which has been nerfed big time
Chaos dropping me off in the most useful room is a myth.
And he has no way of knowing what the most useful room for me is.
And even if the room is useful
rugged apex
well, yes, if the choices would have been between darkness and heat chaos is just going to laugh at you
wheat elbow
there is no knowing that using fated authority on the door preceding that room wouldn't have been better.
rugged apex
they're very reliable like that
wheat elbow
Then there is, for heated runs, of course the predicament that comes with having to pay health
and adding extra difficulty to the run.
There is only one spot, one reason, one way to play the game where I'd consider Chaos gates as a good way to play the game
and that is speed running.
toxic saddle
I'm really disliking this patch, this update was great before the newest version. Hades isn't fun to fight anymore and every run seems to just fizzle out at him, I've seen a lot of people say that they're flat out just not touching the game until they do something about it. feelsbigbadman
elfin pulsar
im glad they weren't afraid to buff him at least, but yeah maybe little much
kind cloud
Wait...there was a new patch? No wonder Hades suddenly felt way tougher.
toxic saddle
I thought he was reasonably hard already, especially for a boss with 2 health bars and a damage buff on the 2nd phase, as well as a slew of unique mechanics to the fight. It's just really disappointing.
kind cloud
Yeah, he wrecked me last night with multiple hits that each did +75 points of damage. (And I walked in with 6 death defiances with 180/315 health.) I was 2-3 hits away from beating him too. (F you Poseidon!)
elfin pulsar
idk, I felt like he died way too fast, didn't really matter how many mechanics he had when you could just wail on him
especially with a good wrath, just do half his second phase before he moves
runs arent too long so I don't feel bad if hes hard
toxic saddle
The problem isn't him being hard, the problem is that he does unreasonable amounts of damage while covering most of the screen.
elfin pulsar
yeah I can agree with that
kind cloud
Same criticism applies for the poison spewed by the Giant Vermins.
elfin pulsar
I just felt like he was too easy before, and agree hes too hard now
toxic saddle
Yeah they really overtuned him, hopefully they tweak it sometime soon.
kind cloud
Did anyone else feel that the Hydra's purple homing missiles got faster in this update? The speed caught me by surprise...
wheat elbow
They have.
At least thats what it feels like to me.
Though I have to say that I am rusty regarding Frenzied runs
so take what I say on that matter with a grain of salt.
And yeah, patch felt perfect on release.
native ether
Yeah I think everyone is mostly in agreement that Hades feels way overtuned lol. It's about the #1 thing being posted in this channel.
My assumption is Supergiant is internally testing a variety of changes, cause typically there's a second patch for the update where they let us know that they're transitioning to the next update. (With more fixes and changes)
placid silo
Well I defeated Hades
Might I add, I've been at my sister's place for a week now, and I forgot to make a cloud save, so I had to go literally from the beginning
wheat elbow
That's neat
I can't stress enough how much of an amazing Duo Dionysus and Zeus are together.
Dionysus having good damage himself and all the amazing ways to make Zeus' ridiculous damage even greater than it already is.
Match made in heaven.
placid silo
The festive cloud lightning one?
placid silo
It's great
wheat elbow
I feel like people heavily underestimate the Dionysus Legendary as well.
Just slapping on another 100% on pretty much everything you do?
Sign me up!
placid silo
Nani?
wheat elbow
(boiling blood is for the weak)
placid silo
I haven't found his legendary yet
wheat elbow
It is one of the more conveluted ones to get I'd say.
His legendary makes it that targets standing in the cloud while being poisoned take a 100% extra damage
placid silo
Oh hell yes
ripe iron
placid silo
Also, Aphrodite's legendary kind of carried me through the run XD
wheat elbow
That one can still kill you though.
It doesn't make enemies deal 10X the damage anymore.
Only 3X >,>
placid silo
It doesn't, yeaj
native ether
The only reason Dio's legendary isn't often talked about is that it's actually pretty hard to find since it requires a Poison effect, the Cast effect, and a Poison modification boon.
wheat elbow
To you, that is.
native ether
So it requires more boons from Dio specifically than any other legendary boon currently in the game
wheat elbow
@native ether The only reason why Dios legendary isn't talked about often is because most people consider him to be bad and avoid him while also actively dodging his cast
native ether
And people don't like the cast for whatever reason which imo is crazy talk but /shrug
wheat elbow
They dislike it because of boiling blood and Artemis
Boiling blood not giving the 50% extra damage to attack and special on one hand
and half of artemis cast related boons not working with it
native ether
I've found very few people who think he's bad lol. Like 2. Dio is great and I don't think he's perceived as bad at all.
wheat elbow
Trust me, people don't think highly of him.
digital lynx
I've played the game for 3 days and I find Dio crazy.
wheat elbow
Most of that argumentation being "Poison is weak because I don't understand how numbers work"
native ether
People are bad :kappa:
Poison is also confusing as a mechanic.
It's not incredibly clear to the user it goes off every half second.
Most people don't always read the fine print. And it's more intuitive to think it's per second.
Cause whole numbers
placid silo
I might add I actually defeated Hades without both boiling blood and Dio legendary
Sooo I take it as a win
wheat elbow
You should.
native ether
Boiling Blood is kind of a trap
native ether
It can be super good, but its good in specific circumstances.
wheat elbow
It's the same for me with Slicing Shot.
One of the greatest things to pull in this game if you get duo boon and legendary.
kind cloud
I like Dio's personality but I find his abilities underwhelming. Poison works great if you can stack it but I don't always get that boon...
rugged apex
dio is good but having to calculate actual dps is annoying
wheat elbow
Super disappointing in almost every other case
rugged apex
"is this actually useful" well maybe but it has a tiny number
digital lynx
I think the first cast I got was Dio's and I fell in love with it
wheat elbow
That is really all there is.
People not understanding the value of small numbers
and overestimating the importance of big ones
Which, by the way, explains the inflated opinion on Artemis
who, in this game, is basically the goddess of random inflated numbers.
placid silo
When I first started playing Hades, I thought even Zeus was bad
wheat elbow
I did as well!
kind cloud
I still think Zeus sucks.
wheat elbow
His special was weaker than everyone elses and his dash only dealt one weak instance of damage while others do strong damage twice and have amazing effects
That was my thought back then
placid silo
Mhm
native ether
The problem is Artemis' chance for a crit evens out considering the amount of damage you're doing, so while she's attractive, she's also very good lol.
placid silo
But when you have the jolted effect and his legendary
wheat elbow
But he is one of these gods where you need him to invest heavily into you.
placid silo
👌
kind cloud
Other than Zeus on Dash and Revenge damage, I hate his abilities.
rugged apex
which looks stronger: +100% damage or +5 damage
placid silo
Like it did for me, almost
native ether
Especially Heart Rend, Heart Rend is ridiculous lmao. Absolutely ridiculous
kind cloud
I can't figure out what jolt does...like it works sometimes and not others.
native ether
Joan depends on the base damage :p
wheat elbow
@rugged apex Depends. How much do I deal before?
If I deal one damage, I take + 5 in a heartbeat.
If I deal 2 damage, same answer.
digital lynx
I mean, it's math. What's so hard about it
wheat elbow
Come meet me again when I deal 3 damage though, then we can have a fascinating philosophical discussion about numbers.
rugged apex
immediate feel is a big part of 'is this good or not'
native ether
Dio is good but Poison isn't flashy and it's hard to see what it's doing.
It also honestly falls off hard in Styx and against Hades.
And it's considerably less good if you can't apply stacks quickly.
rugged apex
this is a trick question because the '5' is actually like 40 per second when fully stacked but that's a few calculations away from immediately obvious
wheat elbow
5 is also 40 damage added on the attack that just applied one stack.
Say you did it with your sword, having poison for 5 damage per tick means that you increased your sword damage by 200%.
Pretty neat if you ask me.
native ether
Yeah. It's not very obvious that poison stacks. Yeah it's explained but it's not honestly obvious how Poison works in general.
wheat elbow
Especially when compared to the percentage increases on attacks.
I think there is no god that can attack for more than a 100% extra naturally, right?
Poseidon usually gimps around 50%
Athena and Aphro get a bit higher but not quite that high.
And Dionysus gives you an immediate debuff on top of that
native ether
I mean the issue again with that is you can do 40 damage over a period of 4 seconds.
That's more what I would find unattractive. Low amounts of damage over time are less appealing than immediate bursts of damage. The faster I kill something the better.
Of course this is improved by the fact that if you can apply max poison stacks quickly, that damage is much more immediate.
wheat elbow
You don't need max damage all the time always.
I mean, take Tartarus for example.
You can kill almost all enemies there in one to two hits.
native ether
Definitely need it in Elysium or Styx. The faster I kill something the less likely it is to hit me moments later.
wheat elbow
If you one hit a numbskull for 30 or for 69 doesn't matter.
Elysium is the only floor I give you where speed matters truly.
native ether
snakestones
wheat elbow
And even there, you can get used to calculating when a poison and/or doom effect will kill your enemy
in order for you to turn around and look away, like the cool guys in the movies do, not looking at explosions as their enemies perish.
Of course, you could also use that same time to turn your attention to other enemies, but
that'd be efficient and we ain't having any of that.
native ether
Also the mega rat miniboss holy hell if you don't kill him fast the entire room is coated with poison.
wheat elbow
But he will live long enough for poison to tick through to the fullest anyways
so that is poisons time to shine.
And by the time you get there, you will have all the extras to make it shine
or have it be the tool to make your other abilities shine.
One way or another, Poison always ends up being either high damage, high support or both.
And that flexibility, to this degree, ranging between great damage, great support, great defense and great utility
is something no other god besides him offers to this degree, with the only exception being Aphrodite.
(which is a neat extra between these two get along just greato)
native ether
Yeah. Poison is good for sure, I stopped dissing it when I won the game at 120 heat with it
wheat elbow
Good man!
native ether
With the rail lmao it was my core strat
I do unfortunately think Poison really struggles at the very end because of the final boss constantly cleansing debuffs
errant narwhal
@covert grove under 12 minutes already?? Congratz!
rugged apex
an unrelated note: deflecting sudden rush is dumb like "you could clear the game with just mouse" dumb
elfin pulsar
does athena attack boon make it deflect?
native ether
But anyways back to the original topic. Dio's legendary isn't sought after much cause of how much it requires you to invest in him. (Especially when most strategies prefer to build things like Duo boons and have multiple effects)
rugged apex
yeah
native ether
This is actually an interesting question. People who play this game: Do you generally find a build that specializes in multiple gods is stronger than one that doesn't?
elfin pulsar
to me it seems like focusing on 2 gods is usually the way to go, just cuz duos are kinda nice and you dont wanna take 1 god so much u start getting only crappy boons
and stuff like wanting dio boon on ur rail attack but not special
native ether
Yeah I agree. I personally think so given the fact that I find Duo boons some of the strongest things in the game, and that building say "all Aphrodite" leaves you rather unable to deal with specific issues you may be running into in a run.
I usually try to go for a 3 god setup currently. I pick a pairing with a duo boon and then try to pick a third god who has a duo with one or both of the other 2.
median ridge
privileged status is an absolutely vital condition to get i think
digital lynx
Is there a general and easy way to remember what God combos have duos and what their requirements are? I literally just stumble my way and accidentally get them most of the time lol
elfin pulsar
there used to only be like 5 of them so it was easy
native ether
It's all on a wiki page!
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Duo_Boons
elfin pulsar
no clue what ppl do now, just memorize I guess
digital lynx
I guess aside from wiki, I just need to play more haha
elfin pulsar
and yeah I always try to prioritize getting privileged status now, it seems like once you get that second debuff damage just goes way up
idk if its worth spending points on if ur running heat-reduced darkness tho
digital lynx
Are the most common debuffs Poison and Weak? I haven't really seen others that last that long
elfin pulsar
poison weak and doom come built into the main boons
u gotta get a second boon for the rest of them
hunters mark is a hella strong one
digital lynx
Does privilged status apply on the doom damage?
elfin pulsar
ye pretty sure it does
digital lynx
Damn that's sick
covert grove
@errant narwhal Thank you! Lots of time to save still, I've yet to see a 1st chamber satyr sack but I've heard it's possible.
median ridge
i got a first chamber satyr sack on my first time going through styx
and i didn’t realize it was possible to go through the other chambers so i just left and was really confused about why styx was so short
native ether
Poison Weak and Doom are the easiest to apply Status Curses because they're available on Tier 1 boons.
The other 4 require a Tier 1 boon that does something else first (Your "X" effects apply "Curse")
wheat elbow
Focusing on 2-3 gods that work well with one another is the way to go for me.
Some gods have mini engines containing 1-3 boons that can really spice up a run all by themselves though.
Artemis Pressure Points + Marked for example.
Zeus' and Dionysus' Wrath Effects work on every run
native ether
Yeah that seems to be the consensus. Should update the new player guide as I don't think that specific area has been touched since the Chaos update
I've been working on fine tuning that page for a while now, but figured getting some community input would be helpful.
wheat elbow
Oh yeah
Aphrodite Attack/Special/Dash and, in some contexts, cast
Also one-boon engines that make every run better.
rugged apex
special mention to Empty Inside, which makes weak a lot more reliable for avoiding damage
native ether
Alternatively, I do think there is something to say about building "tall" rather than "wide" to grab legendary boons
But I think I find Duo boons overall more reliable.
kind cloud
I just reached Hades and he did an attack that registered 160 damage on zero heat run. I entered with 4 death definances (one from Athena) and 303/303 health. He had me down to 2 death defiances before I took even 40% of his life in phase 1. And I had a Lvl 3 Myrmidon bracelet as my keepsake.
lol, I'm out.
Also, I'm having difficulty buying the "we reduced health for Theseus and his bff Minotaur" statement.
Either I've somehow gotten much worse in a span of a week or I've got some very bad luck.
Btw, this game is...uh...interesting. So I took the sword and its best attack is easily the AOE Special. I didn't get a single friggin' special boon until I got to Charon's shop in the Temple of Styx. lol, are you kidding me Supergiant?
Like I said, I'm out. I'll check back again 2 weeks from now.
digital lynx
I understand the Hades portion because they just buffed him and a lot of people have been mentioning it. But I definitely haven't had any issues with Theseus and I started playing the game 3-4 days ago.
And well, sometimes you just get unlucky. That's life :/
kind cloud
I beat Theseus and Minotaur. I realize that fight would've been much easier if I had any special worth a damn. I was basically relegated to using my attack, my dash, and my wrath (which was not even rare quality). The game refused to give me a special until I got to Temple of Styx when I purchased an Ares boon for 150 coin. So my special (which is the best thing about the Stygian Blade) was like my 3rd best option.
I have already beaten Hades a few times but now he's just overpowered even in zero heat runs. It would suck playing against Hades in any heat run where the damage multiple is increased.
digital lynx
I can definitely agree that the special is what carries Sword. But if I didn't get any special boons all the way, I'd just see it as unlucky and actually focus on making the best of what I get. I can see the pain in not being able to upgrade your best damaging aspect of the weapon but occasionally a run ends up being that way.
But Hades does indeed feel slightly overtuned compared to the initial version
wheat elbow
@kind cloud I wish the spear had a special.
toxic saddle
The new explosive spear special is insane with Artemis crits, I had such a fun run with it
I essentially was just a javelin thrower the entire run, it was the safest spear run I've ever had
green birch
Theseus is super weak to the spear special!
Just double tap that Q and you’re pretty much guaranteed to hit him on the front or back
toxic saddle
I just realised that the really great Artemis/ Zeus duo boon where you get a burst of lightning when you crit was replaced by the weird cast lightning, that sucks.
green birch
Lightningrod is great on soul catchers
toxic saddle
The new one is just much more situational, it's not bad
green birch
I do miss Freak Accident though 😦
toxic saddle
I thought they'd added it as an alternate
sort of gate the power spike from FA so it's not guaranteed to come up every artemis/ zeus run
Ah well, might get reworked and added back as a more balanced duo boon, I can dream. It was a bit ridiculous to strike for 40-60 damage on top of a crit but I hope it makes it back in some form.
wheat elbow
I mean
Freak Accident with current Marked
would have been a true blast
sadly, everyone complained about freak accident being bad
"Wäh, only 20 damage!"
And this is what we have now.
It is a cool mechanic, it just doesn't really do anything for anyone because it is so counterintuitive.
green birch
Good in the Hydra fight when I whiff it and the heads decide to go hide in the corner
native ether
Lightning Rod is amazing if built around.
Theseus just loves to stand on casts and take free damage, it's rather amusing.
It's also great on him specifically cause it's a bunch of free damage if he blocks it too
wheat elbow
Probnnlem for me is that I am usually where Theseus is
so the time for my casty stones to be out AND useful hitting something
is minimal.
native ether
That being said Lightning Rod isn't just one of those "good always builds"
wheat elbow
Neither is spend spirit
native ether
Its good with proper setup. Combining it with Exit Wounds, Quick Reload, and Full Reload can make it pretty nasty.
wheat elbow
any of the new Poseidon ones
native ether
I'm always building Exclusive Access when I go for Dio Zeus runs
wheat elbow
Even when it's the last boon offered to you on a run?
native ether
Well no ofc. I build Poseidon and Dionysus first.
Build Zeus in Asphodel and Elysium.
wheat elbow
Dunno, I never found Exclusive Access to be that good for me.
I usually end up getting it at awkward times
and because I am not using stiffling darkness, I have high rarities going for me anyway.
native ether
Exclusive Access is good if you can build it before Elysium
It's still good if you get it before Styx
But less good
wheat elbow
My experience with exclusive access is that I get it early'ish on a run that I already manuvered down the drain or so late that it doesn't matter.
Same for sweet nectar
native ether
Though also differences between what I'd call tall and wide:
Tall: Focuses mostly on 1 or 2 gods for the run and their synergies. Builds like Hunting Blades + Vicious Cycle as an example, or a heavy crit run with Artemis. (Going for Black Out would be another good example)
Wide: Usually tries to link together a bunch of gods, like a trio between Zeus, Dio, Poseidon, or Ares, Athena, Zeus, mostly focused on synergies between the 2.
I think the big difference is tall builds are often focused on Legendaries or synergies in between gods, wide builds are more focused on relating synergies and getting duo boons.
Id say wide builds are more common simply cause Hades doesn't often give you repeated boons from the same god.
wheat elbow
Hmmm.
I think my builds usually end up being pretty tall and wide then.
I let the game decide what gods I should be focussing on in Tartarus, pick two god keepsakes in Asphodel and Elysium to enhance what I already had and build up on that and in Styx, I just continue to rob everything the game throws at me as I prepare myself for Hades.
I usually never aim for width, but it tends to just come to me naturally.
Tall builds are what I'd usually prefer and given the length the game has atm paired with me being relatively minmaxi about everything, they are fairly possible
broken cipher
Tried a Poseidon and Dionysus build several times but kept not getting either reliably despite equipping their keepsakes (with Dionysus' maxed) so I switched to an Athena/Artemis build the next run. Ah, the joy of fast clears. I have a renewed appreciation for how quickly crits melt through enemies. Especially with their Duo boon.
toxic saddle
I hope they buff the keepsakes to change the seed a bit to fit with your choices of God, also would be nice if they gave you something other than increased rarity of boons, something to do with each God; i.e a small chance to reflect damage for Athena, an extra poison stack for Dio, etc. Would be cool to add when getting your respective God keepsakes to level 3 to keep thing balanced.
river pier
^ Good point. Also they could add unique boons that are available only with keepsakes
split yoke
If i build up stacks on the keepsake Pierced Butterfly and then exchange it for a different keepsake, will I still have the damage buff?
turbid needle
No.
Any Keepsake that provides stackable bonuses like that loses effect if you switch off it.
split yoke
awesome ty
turbid needle
So I noticed in Haelian's new video that we're on version 0.19913, and the update in #hades-patch-notes is 0.19908. Anyone know what's different yet? I'm about to start a run, but I wanna see if there's anything big I should be eyeballing.
native ether
Wait a new patch?
turbid needle
I'll let you know!
covert grove
@turbid needle I didn't even notice that myself, might be a minor bug fix patch
turbid needle
Roger, roger.
broken cipher
Got the final boss down to an eighth of the second health bar before getting lasered to death. Went in with five death defiances and Athena's call and still got wrecked. I'm beginning to think I'm just doing something very wrong with my build but the boons work well enough together that I don't see where exactly the problem is.
gentle pollen
Just takes a little getting the hang of the moveset. Keep at it and try and learn what to look out for and you'll have it down in no time and then start getting it with less death defiances. If the lasers give you a lot of grief you could hang around the piece of the environment on the right and use it for cover. Or go for calls that stop you from taking damage and save the greater calls for that moment and just take the free damage.
rugged apex
bull rush spam is pretty broken but the game is kind of difficult to play without it
turbid needle
I used to LOVE Bull Rush but I picked up Dashing Wallop one day and I've never looked back. Guess I should try it again.
rugged apex
just because hades is... hades
turbid needle
If your Vengeful Mood has both Curse of Vengeance and Holy Shield, would a separately acquired Merciful End instantly proc every 3.5 seconds?
rugged apex
ideally it should but it may not actually do so depending on how it actually stacks the effects
well okay this run's dead. six snakestones off a trove in a tiny room where I'm not free to rush.
i'm not Dead, Technically, But
gentle pollen
The faster targetting on the snakestones from the balance patch can make them downright mean.
turbid needle
RIP
Gonna record this boss fight. I've got a level 3 Hunter Mark so if I can get Hades with Privileged Status, I should break 10k if I can get an Aphro's Aid crit.
unkempt pagoda
👀
turbid needle
Unfortunately, no Heart Rend, but I do have Sweet Surrender and Clean Kill.
unkempt pagoda
i really need to look at the new boons
jade estuary
what gods do you go for with bull rush?
im trying to beat the game and i keep dying at fina lboss lol
unkempt pagoda
athena
unkempt pagoda
sudden rush + athena
rugged apex
on an unrelated note zagreus's ability to get caught on lamps, poles, pillars, urns, edges of pits, pillars on chamber edges, and his own bookcase, may need a nerf
jade estuary
which hammer do i pick up in elysium also
kind fiber
With what weapon?
unkempt pagoda
you could do aphro cast or dash, combined with athena's exposed for an easy privileged status
kind fiber
Spear?
gentle pollen
Spin upgrades to spear are so good
toxic saddle
Okay so I just got hit for 230 damage from Asterius due to the charmed enemy bug. Really dumb just how persistent that bug is.
turbid needle
rugged apex
(zagreus's worst enemy is an urn he can't dash over)
turbid needle
gentle pollen
Oofty, very nice
rugged apex
i am going to report every bit of 'zagreus gets caught on terrain and the nearest foe gives him a beating' I can find
turbid needle
Bruh. Do you know how many Death Defiances I've lost because the little gap in the middle of an Elysium chamber was kinked just so that my Dash won't cross that particular direction and I get gobbled?
rugged apex
every bit
lost rose
I'm looking forward to getting myself stuck in every single place y'all report
😄
I still haven't managed to beat Hades on this patch, I'm going to try for Artemis-Aphrodite-Athena on shield and just, be more careful
turbid needle
Might I suggest Aphrodite's Aid? 
turbid needle
I remember when the Feather Duster was moderately meta.
lost rose
i was considering streaming some runs tonight, guess i'll do that
kinda out of it so either i'll play like crap, or i'll play the best i ever have 😛
turbid needle
Okay, so Greater Call with Aphro's Aid does 2500 damage.
Lemme see if I crunch all the math correctly here.
rugged apex
i'm just gonna ram zagreus's pretty face into terrain until I've found Every Collision Issue
lost rose
it's ok i actually do enjoy reporting those
rugged apex
or until I get annoyed at slow upload speed
lost rose
i'm building a reputation
turbid needle
Okay, I didn't crunch the math correctly.
But the point is that Hunter Mark and Pressure Points is still nuts.
lost rose
https://www.twitch.tv/venhediss
hades time hades time hades time
covert grove
@turbid needle I am very interested in the Aphrodite call now
turbid needle
Right?
ripe iron
Any word on what the minipatch did?
turbid needle
The patch notes don't address it.
The game is v0.19913 right now, patch notes are only v0.19908.
they don’t?!
i could’ve sworn..
unkempt pagoda
probs some light bug fixes?
lost rose
@ripe iron Minipatch was a hotfix for crashes and prog stops
🙌 didn't screenshot it but it was Witnessed, i beat new hades
maybe i'll try with a riskier build someday but i am content with this
dull flume
What was your build?
lost rose
Shield, athena attack, exposed status curse, aphrodite dash and call, zeus cast with jolted, lightning rod, spent spirit
my shield buffs weren't great - mirage flight and dashing wallop
i was mostly bull rushing so dashing wallop wasn't that useful, but it was the best of what was available
didn't manage to get deadly reversal despite many opportunities
formal hill
Does anyone feel the final biome chambers are way too cramped? Or am I just a weenie
ember lotus
I think they're supposed to be that way
Everything happens very fast and there's no where to hide
formal hill
Some rooms are just so small they feel like I'm going to get absolutely destroyed no matter what
Mind you Ive only gotten to it twice
ember lotus
That also means that you can blow them up if you're bringing aoe to the function
formal hill
I guess I'm not good with boon choice xD
ember lotus
It can also be weapon dependent
formal hill
If I can start reliably getting past Mr twunk and mino maybe I'll get a stronger opinion. But I didn't mean to interrupt people! I'm so sorry 😰
ember lotus
How dare you have questions about the game in the 'gameplay' discord channel
ember lotus
I approve
dull flume
King Twunk and Pompador Bull.
formal hill
Haha well I said twink and then my gfs who I stream on discord the game recited the ":GASP: I AM A TWUNK!!!" And it stuck
ember lotus
Zagreus is the only twink allowed in the underworld pantheon
formal hill
He's a good boyo
lost rose
if zag is your standard for twinks, i don't want to know what you consider a hunk
formal hill
Hahag
dull flume
Patrolacus.
formal hill
Omg
lost rose
pat is LESS BULKY than zag, WHAT
formal hill
That's achellies bae right
I have a hard time with names and I haven't seen him often 😩
ember lotus
Is he? He's always all hunched over and draped in his cloak of depression
dull flume
He's the one who gives ... yeah that guy
formal hill
(hence calling uh.... What's his face a twunk LOL)
lost rose
he's definitely not as ripped as zag gkdfjgdf
zag's got those hereditary god muscles, pat's just a mortal, and not even that notable a warrior at that
formal hill
He's trying his best lol
dull flume
Explains how Dio is so ripped too despite his drinking
lost rose
yeah the gods are all just Like That
formal hill
He ahem... Parties.... So it's a lot of core work out : p
ember lotus
Like most of the cast is pretty hunky
lost rose
yeah, jen's clearly having fun with the muscles
formal hill
But I've only gotten to the final biome w shield TTWTT
ember lotus
They're all just big dudes
lost rose
hypnos and hermes are the only twinks in the cast and hermes might be disqualified since he has clearly never, ever missed leg day
ember lotus
Maybe Thanatos
lost rose
CTK, it's totally fine to just stick with shield
I just played it super safe in my run just now, it's nice
Thanatos has the aura of a twink but ultimately, still got those big huge god muscles 😔
formal hill
I have the least experience with the sword, gun, bow and spear are tied and the the most played is a shield
lost rose
I prefer bow but for now I can only even come close to winning with shield ^^;
formal hill
What can I say, I love to block the hydras bullets xD
What's better in your opinion, to focus on one to two gods as your boons, or spread out with specific gods for specific things?
I don't really know the meta
lost rose
I'd say it's more about covering your bases as far as 1) protecting yourself, and 2) DPS
RNG is gonna give you what it's gonna give you
Keep your options in mind as you go and pick gods based on what you've gotten so far
For protection, shield already helps you a lot, and Athena's dash + Hermes' extra 2 or 3 dashes will go a long way
having Athena on basic attack is also always a good strategy since she gives a pretty good power boost
And you can get her status curse, exposed, pretty easily
for DPS i like to always try to get privileged status, since there are so many options now and it's a great, easy way to boost power
It's better to double up longer-lasting effects like exposed, weak, marked, and ruptured, but jolted and doom work fine
weak is good because you can get another boon that makes it last even longer
formal hill
I haven't used Athena's dash since it was super slow when it came out, is it paced like the others? : O
formal hill
!!! Oh man I've been avoiding it for nothing 😂
I'm really partial to artemis' cast, basically anything other than tipsy shot 😂
BC while I love poison!!!!
Aiming my cast is....
Ruff
formal hill
Hot blood?
hollow matrix
The one for casts
Boiling blood?
I dunno
it gives a 50% damage buff
for the stuck lads
formal hill
Oh nice!
lost rose
Artemis is still honestly your best bet for racking up huge numbers so if you can get pressure points and, like, the artemis/athena duo boon that increases your crit chance after deflecting, that's basically as good as you can wish for
formal hill
Ye
hollow matrix
Yeah its super rare just cause on the list of gods he's pretty awful late game
falls off super hard
formal hill
If I can I try to rock a huge delayed DPS run
Oh?
I didn't realize he wasn't great for late game : o
I mean I'm still learning to love Poseidon and Hermes xD
hollow matrix
it just gets to the point where the time it takes to apply the damage is too slow
Hermes
is sooooo cool
formal hill
That is true!
formal hill
I didn't get to play his update right when it came out
hollow matrix
it was a nice change of pace
formal hill
So I'm experiencing his and this one at the same time
hollow matrix
Yeh
I just recently got the one where you run super fast after a dash
It was bad
but super funny
So it was worth imo
formal hill
Oh that one helped me get away from the mino a few times xD
lost rose
hermes extra dashes 👌
hollow matrix
Im generally good at sticking with pillars
and dash management
The old days of 3 dashes
formal hill
I suck at fighting him )':
formal hill
I can p much reliably do Tartarus and Asphodel without problema
formal hill
Right now it's the 3rd biome that absolutely destroys me
hollow matrix
I'm consistently getting to styx
hollow matrix
I havent been taking the styx boss too seriously though
formal hill
I haven't gotten there yet OTL
hollow matrix
Normally I put more effort in learning patters in the like
formal hill
Ive gotten thru uh
I got to Styx 2ce, and the first time I beat a "room" or tunnel whatever
Then died on the second
hollow matrix
hmm
formal hill
And then my last attempt (that I got tonight) I died really fast LOL
hollow matrix
I've had really good runs so far whenever I make it to styx
formal hill
Nice congrats!!!! : D
hollow matrix
i dunno if my builds or great but styx feels like the second easiest
I think its just cause by the time you get there
you should be broken
formal hill
Lol I am usually not feeling that broken so
hollow matrix
that might be a building issue
formal hill
I need to focus on early game boons and buffing
formal hill
Yeah I'm not that great with choosing boons
hollow matrix
passing up boons is also cool
if you know what you're in for
I've kinda just been mindlessly leveling up my keepsakes
formal hill
Yeah I need to work more on going "I want an aretmis and ares build let's go"
hollow matrix
mhm
formal hill
Or "I want poison and lightning"
formal hill
I'm not very bold with Chaos or like, hammer choices
formal hill
Merciful End, it was when if you had... Doom and then deflected it would trigger the doom right away, I think?
hollow matrix
Oh
I had that for my ares run
Yeah
its super good
I had my special inflict doom
formal hill
And I had a dash that had deflect and ares.... Special I think on shield
hollow matrix
and my dash was athena
formal hill
Eyyyy nice
formal hill
SAME HAT
hollow matrix
I had a buncha other boons available as well to help me out
formal hill
Nice!!!
This has some stuff for me to think about >>
Alas it's almost midnight so I need to sleep!!!!!!
formal hill
Good night and I wish everyone well with their runs!!!
hollow matrix
GN
formal hill
👋
wheat elbow
What a shame, missed a lot of good discussion in here!
@turbid needle Gotta say, the biggest surprise I took away from that is that Athenas Wrath can Backstab. Now that is something I have to remember.
vagrant hearth
Ohhhh man. Epic Curse of Pain + Coronacht's special = I am living.
Glad Ares finally decided to show up!
errant narwhal
im in asphodel and i dont have an attack boon so i bought a yarn bc i had an elite athena boon coming
fought the boat
and got no attack boon
gentle pollen
I just made serious use of Ares' cast for the first time and man, that might have been my most fun run so far. Had pretty much every buff for it I could get, from the legendary making the damage stack to the size and damage increases and even the duo that made them track. Just toss them all out on the field and watch everything just get annihilated.
errant narwhal
is this a joke, athena? am i your least favorite family member?
vagrant hearth
Daaaaang this is going well. My best run so far by far. Just beat Megagorgon for the first time and I even still have a death defy left
aphrodite and dio here with the nice survivability boons + that curse of pain i mentioned
errant narwhal
gratz!
vagrant hearth
thanks!
gentle pollen
Nice! I really like doom, especially if you can combine it with weak and get the ares/aphrodite duo.
vagrant hearth
rn i've got, uhhh
artemis main attack, i forget what that one's called; curse of pain (epic); afterparty (rare); life affirmation (epic); urge to kill (epic) and different league (rare)
ares and aphrodite really like me this run
although i've probably just jinxed myself by bragging
oh dear, and it looks like the hydra is next
i can afford a pom or another ares boon, which should i go with do you think
broken cipher
Ares boon, definitely.
vagrant hearth
that's what I was thinking
i'll take a quick break first- i gather the hydra is a long slog of a fight
gentle pollen
Aw man
They can be a pain sometimes. Especially back when they popped up in the beefy update
I actually managed to kill them in time to trigger the plume tonight and that felt so good after all the grief they used to cause me.
vagrant hearth
oof. didn't make it. got it down to about a quarter health though
broken cipher
:c Oh no! Well, that's still very good. It's a long fight. ^~^ Better luck next run!
river sequoia
how many attempts do yall have?
broken cipher
Escape attempts, or?
broken cipher
^^" I haven't done many runs yet. Somewhere around 110, I think? Took a pretty long break.
gentle pollen
I've only got about 50. Played pretty sparingly prior to this update so as not to wear myself out on it, but just can't help myself now.
river sequoia
yeah, i didnt play more than 10 games per update until now excluding the first couple of weeks i got it
i treated the updates as a "oh look, time to test out these two features then go back to a different game" kind of scenariio
broken cipher
I've gotten to the final boss several times but still haven't beaten him. ^^" I'm not very good at this game tbh. But I did get some very lucky runs.
river sequoia
but this one is big and challenging and super cool
ive been able to beat him 3 times with some lucky runs, but ive never beaten 'em with a death defiance left
errant narwhal
ive got like 100 something, i think
gentle pollen
The first few final boss kills were so close that I was terrified when I found out they were buffing him, but now I can usually make it through only using one death defiance.
errant narwhal
116
river sequoia
nice
broken cipher
This update has been a ton of fun. Styx is a very interesting biome and I got to see Elysium for the first time since I missed that addition.
errant narwhal
i killed him first try pre buff, and in my one attempt post buff i couldnt get past elysium
river sequoia
wait Fenriff are you talking about the elysium boss or the new final boss
gentle pollen
New final boss
river sequoia
did they buff the final one already?
gentle pollen
Buffed his damage but nerfed the tracking on the skulls
errant narwhal
my spacebar and left mouse button are kind of giving out, but i also played very badly and didnt have the best boons
river sequoia
thats a fat rip
errant narwhal
aye
river sequoia
I can't for the life of me get a good bow or adamant rail run going, how would yall reccomend i do it
gentle pollen
Adamant Rail was my favorite weapon for a while. I like to go single shot route, three specials, and stand in the special for damage buff for my hammer upgrades.
river sequoia
single shot?
errant narwhal
good bow run is ez just go with artemis on attack and let rng carry you from there
river sequoia
ive never seen that one
gentle pollen
Yeah there's a hammer upgrade that replaces the ammo with just one big shot
wheat elbow
Rail is the most important weapon to get a good special, cast and attack on.
Good dash is a bonus
The better they flow, the more stable your run'll be
river sequoia
makes sense
wheat elbow
Also, make an honest to got effort out of combining your special with your cast.
Your cast can make enemies flinch, making your special easier to hit
(also hits harder that way)
Never focus on using the attack as your main tool, just use it as filler.
river sequoia
i personally only really use the sword and shield as my main weapons, so the idea of not getting in super close is kinda wack
wheat elbow
With Invigorating blast and/or spread shot, the rail becomes close ranged too.
river sequoia
the only rail run i was able to almost to the end with i ended up using my primary fire a lot cause of the atk speed/accuracy hammer upgrade, but that just ended up making me an open target
broken cipher
That feel. The idea of being somewhat stationary in a fight for any reason is odd. Good luck on your ranged runs though~
river sequoia
thanks! : )
humble crypt
OK so can you actually tell when little hydra heads are going to do something?
gentle pollen
That's why I like the single shot. You can stay on the move.
humble crypt
Like I can't even tell when they are attacking or just twitching around randomly
river sequoia
yeah, theyll kinda lean back and flicker a tad whiter
humble crypt
Some of them have like, the head pound attack, and sometimes they just like, hurt you for being nearby
do they always flicker before they will damage you?
river sequoia
i think so
humble crypt
I end up just getting bored and taking 120 damage so i don't have to be playing the hydra fight anymore
river sequoia
im pretty sure that their flickering means they will do a move, either a rush bite or their special
humble crypt
Do they hurt you when you touch them maybe?
gentle pollen
They shiver and flash when they're gonna thrust at you and pound the ground.
You might just be standing right in the way when they go to fire the waves that some of them do.
So you get hit right when it comes out.
broken cipher
The smaller heads are great because they're all colour coded for convenience. You always know exactly what they're going to be throwing at you.
river sequoia
the ones that look like the main hydra shoot those big waves, the pink ones shoot those fireballs that cause a circle of damaging magma, and the green ones shoot eggs that will spawn a skellyboi after 5 seconds
river sequoia
yeah, they can be a bit hard to catch in the heat of the fight
broken cipher
Then there's the ones that do the wave attack. Red, I think.
river sequoia
it really means that you just need to constantly move around them when attacking, especially with the wave ones
those are the same color as the main hydra
broken cipher
Dash boons are a blessing if you've got a melee weapon.
river sequoia
oh yeea
humble crypt
it just feels like i could do it perfectly but it gets boring :/
and the rest of the game is so awesome
river sequoia
one of my favorite synergies is with the sword hammer upgrade that makes the dash attack hit twice and the artemis boon that increases your dash attack damage
sword has so many good hammer upgrades
the hydra fight is by far the most boring thing in the whole game
its just lame
and repetitive
humble crypt
k i'm glad to hear that
broken cipher
That's a great combo right there. Artemis has some quality boons.
It's hectic but then slows back down to let you breathe. I actually enjoy that fight though I get why the length is bothersome.
river sequoia
the armor makes it worse but its really nice if you have a armor breaking hammer upgrade
sadly thats the only boss that gets affected by those
i wish that all bosses had some amoubt of their health in armor so that the armor breaking hammer upgrades were not just useful for encounters
broken cipher
Armor Slayer plus the Artemis Crit damage upped vs armour boon is... it's beautiful. Full Crit builds...
river sequoia
cause what deters me from wanting to pick up those hammer upgrades is that almost every other hammer upgrade is helpful against bosses
broken cipher
That's a good point. But it makes the regular encounters go by so much faster. I find the increased pace really helps stop burnout.
vagrant hearth
I'm at... 30ish? And I've finally gotten the hang of Meg
Also managed to get to Asphodel with a weapon other than the bow for a change (shield run)
(bow's still my fav though)
river sequoia
i love the shield
the ability to block everything is so good
the thing with the encounters going faster is that ive gotten to the point where normal encounters dont threaten me too much and the final boss is the only thing im worried about
broken cipher
Ooh, congrats on that Shield run! ^~^
That's fair. Plus stacking high damage boons or status effects pretty much negates its usefulness, even in the short term.
reef topaz
I'm gonna miss the knockback on the shield attacks, the amount of enviro/wall kills I used to get off it was hilarious.
river sequoia
is it completely removed?
i thought that they just changed the way pulverizing blow worked
i completely didnt notive
broken cipher
Taking Poseidon on attack and adding Typhoon's Fury pretty much has the same effect.
river sequoia
ah yeah
reef topaz
I've been using Poseidon's knockback on special instead, helps a lot for the last area in my experience
river sequoia
i didnt like the knockback cause it just made it harder to plan out my movements ahead of time with the unexpected movement the enemy woulf get
broken cipher
But it's a hassle if your run isn't giving you Poseidon.
That's smart. The Poseidon boons are all pretty good for Styx.
Oh god. I took the knockback on Sword attack without having dash boons etc. That was a mistake. The enemies went everywhere and Asphodel was a pain to clear.
reef topaz
Gotta aim them into the lava or against the wall
They melt pretty fast if you can do either consistently
broken cipher
Aim wraiths into lava
Go "oh dear Hades what have I done"
reef topaz
Haaaa, yeah was gonna say, unless they float, in which case, RIP
broken cipher
Mistakes were made that run. So many mistakes.
reef topaz
Had a run where I picked up all the revenge effects and got the Zeus/Ares duo. That was good times.
broken cipher
Oooh! Vengeance stacks are incredible. Especially with that duo boon. Not needing to be hit is nice.
reef topaz
Yeah, I basically status ailmented the last boss to death, between all those + rupture and some poison stacks, was a way different experience than my first go against him, that's for sure.
broken cipher
Definitely aiming for that in the near future. I do want to try another Athena/Artemis run first though. Maybe I can get it to work this time.
river sequoia
i mainly try to go for those runs, they are in my opinion the two best
broken cipher
They're definitely solid combinations in general. No idea if they're the best this update though.
wheat elbow
So in terms of God Aids, Wraths, Calls, whatevers
What are your top 3s?
Mine would be
- Dionysus
- Zeus
- Poseidon
- Everyone else.
Probably 4. Artemis
6/7 Athena and Aphrodite and 8'd be Ares.
broken cipher
Oh. That's difficult since they all have their uses. Uh.
- Athena/Ares/Poseidon <- I enjoy not being damaged and dealing some back is a plus
- Artemis/Zeus <- Massive damage for fast clears or just wrecking bosses, yes please
- Aphrodite/Dionysus <- Definitely useful but don't tend show up in my runs early enough to get much out of them
That's less an individual ranking and more of a categorical thing since they behave pretty similarly. But the choice between taking damage mitigation on a run or wrecking shop with some DPS is always difficult for me.
Wait. I just realized I have no idea if Hermes even has a call. I know he's got Second Wind because I run that whenever it shows up but...
wheat elbow
He doesn't seem to have one sadly.
He has no active boons at all.
Athenas Call was great when it lasted for 1.2 seconds per charge.
0.6 is far too little.
It actually get's me hit more than it helps, frankly enough.
broken cipher
So he really is entirely support?
Oh. I never used any call on less than full charge once I saw how reduce the effect was. If you're triggering them regularly then I see why you'd prefer to take others.
wheat elbow
Depends on the boon. Athena I'd agree, I'd only use her on a full charge. Aphrodite as well. Because that harshly limits both of their usefulness, they are ranking so low on my list.
Dionysus and Zeus are just huge damage boosters, even if you use them with one charge. Their Wraths can also be further empowered by their respective boon pools, which is not true for, say, Artemis'
Poseidon is in a similiar league, but his damage is a bit more conditional. On the other hand, he also makes you invincible which is amazing. He is the better Athena boon for me atm.
Ares Wrath effect is the worst. It is amazing if you have a full force blade rift run going. But if you have a full blade rift run, the wrath effect becomes redundant.
broken cipher
No such thing as too many blade rifts. XD
I do see your point though. If you want the most return overall then your rating system is probably the best way to prioritize them on a run. But since I wouldn't make use of them while not at full bar regardless, I only care about the end product. Which, granted, is an awful way to build since nothing is ever optimized but hey, to each their own and all. XD
wheat elbow
I mean, if you only want to use full charges, that really is your prerogative. And for some boons, it makes sense. Again, Athena is pretty much useless right now with just 0-6 seconds on the short charge.
I usually just value flexibility and efficiancy.
ripe iron
My boon general prio: 1. Athena 2. Zues 3. Aphrodite 4. Artemis 5. Dionysus 6. Poseidon 7. Ares
broken cipher
Oh sure, everyone plays differently but from a purely objective standpoint full charge only isn't ideal. I'm not going to pretend that it's a good habit to have formed. I assume there's a reason they reworked the calls to activate more often.
That time on Athena's call really does need a boost. It can still be a good save if you activate it at just the right time but the likelihood of that happening is...well. Just way too low for my liking.
ripe iron
Depends on supports at the time of course
I love Athena's Call as a reactive tbh. Had to bind the Call key to be super accessible though.
wheat elbow
Well I am old, so my reaction times aren't that well for that kind of play.
And because it is so short, I get hit when it is over quite often anyway.
broken cipher
Aphrodite's an interesting third choice~ What weapon are you usually running it on?
wheat elbow
Just dodging usually ends up saving me and dealing a bit more damage.
I freel like Aphrodite is more of a question on your build.
If you have Marked, Aphrodites Wrath effect can be ridiculous.
Check the self promo channel, one of the people has uploaded a hades fight there. #self-promotion
You can actually see that Aphrodite Wrath crit for almost 15.000 damage.
broken cipher
O_O I am definitely going to check that out. Wow.
wheat elbow
Well, wait
Where did he post that?
That's the link.
It's not my own video so I can post it here.
broken cipher
Thanks!
ripe iron
Haha, I can tell you're old @wheat elbow. :) Not an excuse though. I'm not going to reveal my age, but I'd wager that I'm older. We can keep up with the youngs here. I'm living proof you can keep honing your reaction times as a veteran gamer. You can too. Never give up. xo
broken cipher
That's ridiculous, I love it.
wheat elbow
@ripe iron How old are you?
@vapid tundra Now that is a question that I need to figure out myself yet still.
ripe iron
14062, that's kinda stupid. I wish SG didn't cave so hard on people's cries to change her Call, it wasn't that bad as it was
broken cipher
That damage is definitely something else. Haven't seen values that high so far. What was the call damage before?
wheat elbow
Zero.
Well, actually
It was 1.
Fun, little no fact, before the Big Bad Update, Aphrodites Wrath dealt One damage
Big Bad Update, they changed it to be a single target projectile and the full gauge effect gave it piercing, hitting multiple enemies.
It was still weak and, well, charmed enemies still deal more damage, so nobody liked that
so they slapped on 2500 damage on the full gauge effect.
That damage can be affected by privileged Status, as I have learned today, it can backstab and, as you know
it can crit.
broken cipher
By the Fates. 1 damage? That's. Well, that's ah...not ideal. No wonder that got overhauled. Hm. So it went from entirely useless to situational but weak to completely broken. Interesting.
wheat elbow
The main appeal behind it is that it charmed a lot of enemies and made them punch each other. It also made these enemies stronger, dealing 10 times the damage.
In theory, that was a fine idea, but it had a few problems.
- Enemy AI did not feel like it was optimized for that kind of behaviour. Sometimes, they would just do nothing.
- Enemies that were charmed were also dealing 10x the damage to you. That one has caused a lot of confusion and sudden deaths until I uncovered that.
- Charming a big room full of enemies actually becomes taxing for the game to handle. Not often discussed, but when I used to record and use the wrath, everything started to stutter.
broken cipher
The idea itself is interesting. Though it's more something I would expect from Dionysus than Aphrodite. With those points in mind it sounds as if simply reworking the call was the better option overall.
wheat elbow
I think I would have just given it moderate damage
50 to 100ish
And let the projectile apply weak/charmed
and full gauge just fires out more projectiles, spreading out to multiple enemies.
Hell, the low charge could have still been more than one projectile.
The "big hit" we have right now is neat and a novel idea. It just feels a big misplaced on Aphrodite I feel
To be fair though:
broken cipher
🤔 I suppose it could also have been done the way Switch() was in Transistor. With afflicted enemies simply becoming allied units during the transition.
wheat elbow
That is just me wanting Charmed to actually be good speaking.
broken cipher
Your idea'd be more balanced than nearly 15k damage while still being useful so that's fair enough. XD
nova flame
is pierced butterfly considered the best keepsake overall?
and, am i getting it right, if i switch it for something else the bonus disappears? and there is no way to gain more bonus in styx?
wheat elbow
The bonus will disappear, yes.
Not sure if it is the best. If you can play without getting hit constantly then yes, it will be very powerful
but you also leave 4 other keepsakes on the table which can make your run stronger, safer or more consistent with what you want.
nova flame
i think the biggest bonus i was able to get was 45%, that's with lvl3 item
i think that's quite a lot. i used to do +200 gold, and then switch it up for the hourglass (+5 encounter item duration)
distant rose
does anyone know how the pillars with the golden skulls in asphodel work? destroying them rewards a tiny amount of gold, but that only seems to be the case for a specific time after entering, right?
errant narwhal
i think it only rewards gold while in combat?
vapid tundra
They also give gold in double boon rooms before you grab one.
grand pollen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXP9qt8tQY Well this just happened.
wheat elbow
@distant rose Small extra, the Artemis cast pierces shields.
upbeat junco
holy, just saw that aphrodite call damage on hades, I guess I know what I'm getting now
wheat elbow
Enjoy yourself.
@grand pollen You sound younger than I imagined you would. But yeah, full blade rift runs are overpowered as hell. I will have one of those up later as well.
upbeat junco
jesus now I saw that hunting blades kill wow
grand pollen
Turn 24 in 2 weeks, Dunno if that's as young as you think I sound ;P
upbeat junco
I might try hunting blades later, what boons should I get?
grand pollen
Slicing Shot from Ares is required, any Artemis attack one, like dash or special or normal.
After that its any buffs for cast or blades.
tough echo
Mother of Olympus, that Aphrodite calls...
grand pollen
or crit.
wheat elbow
Just checked the recording I did with Blade Rifts
was a 61 seconds fight
Was unlucky with stealthing phases during the first part.
grand pollen
Mine was 50 or 51, but honestly it was like a 20 second fight or less with 30 seconds of invulnerablity
wheat elbow
My overall run ended up being faster though
Clocked in at 19:47
(nowhere near Haelians levels of course)