A chaos room in front of golden laundrels are potencial god boons you did not take.
#h1-builds-and-combat
wheat elbow
turbid needle
I thought you were making the Chaos = RNG joke I made last week, but I guess not.
native ether
the biggest downside to chaos in all honesty is losing a chamber. Which isnt a downside if your upcoming chamber is blue laurels.
turbid needle
Most of the time regular Gods ARE better.
wheat elbow
The room Chaos drops you off is a room not of your choosing. That choice you gave up on may end up being another boon you are passing up on.
turbid needle
But Chaos also offers really powerful boons.
wheat elbow
And the boon chaos himself gives you, no matter how strong it may be, is never run defining.
turbid needle
I don't consider that enough of a downside to really skip every time.
native ether
i beg to differ. Heavy Slug build with "your dash attack does 95% additional damage"
wheat elbow
It may be a nice damage increase or give you money, but it will never be an active effect or synergize in a substancial way with others.
native ether
that was hella run defining right there
turbid needle
It doesn't need to?
native ether
boosted my damage from 80 to 215 with the poseidon boon on my attack
also obols guarantee your ability to buy out the styx market pretty much regardless
wheat elbow
It kinda does need to if people want to take chaos without complaining about leaving Tartarus feeling underpowered.
turbid needle
I've never left feeling underpowered because of Chaos.
wheat elbow
And, of course, yes, the RNG part of Chaos also plays it's part. Sure you can get dash attack on heavy slug. You can also get dash attack on tripple bomb.
turbid needle
I've left feeling underpowered because I got garbage boons on everything.
wheat elbow
THAt can leave you feeling underpowered.
native ether
I mean I have no issue with Chaos being buffed considering I love his mechanics and how they work, and feel like they should be more risky and even more rewarding.
turbid needle
I'd like more conditionals like "Enemies drop inferno bombs on death" than just everything being damaging.
native ether
But I honestly dont think that's the issue. I just think people are getting pretty bad rng in Tartarus.
wheat elbow
Yes, and Chaos is a big part of that RNG problem.
wheat elbow
I mean, anecdotal evidence aside, I am the only one in here who does not complain about garbage boons or feeling underpowered after Tartarus and/or Asphodel.
The only thing I do differently is that I avoid Chaos like the pest.
turbid needle
That's hilarious.
native ether
Lots of people do that, you aren't unique there lol
turbid needle
Because aaall the runs I've had that were junk Chaos has only appeared in a small selection of them.
I don't know why you come in here acting like Paul on the road to Damascus, but it's starting to get really grating.
wheat elbow
(oh yeah, also, early Coinpurse, that 200 Obol really puts you ahead of the 8-ball)
turbid needle
Everyone did that on day one of the Big Bad Update.
native ether
Either getting less boons, or getting boons that really don't work together, or getting a pool of effects that arent useful to start a build.
Yeah I don't think Chaos is a problem. I think he can be an issue but since he rarely actually appears unless you force him to show up, I seriously doubt Chaos is the single or biggest reason people are having bad run RNG. I think people are just having bad run RNG lol.
wheat elbow
Don't call me Paul on the road to Damascus, I don't even know what that means.
native ether
reminder even tho im not a mod to keep it civil pls thx
wheat elbow
I remain with my initial Statement, RNG only matters as much as you make it matter.
I never go into Tartarus having a plan.
turbid needle
Playing this game makes the RNG matter.
wheat elbow
I have my coin purse, grab every god boon and hammer I see and see what I get before the first boss. Then I tailor my run from there.
native ether
But anyways, I don't think Chaos is the single reason people are having bad rng. I think people are just having bad rng lol. Less chances to score the boons they need to put together a solid build, as money isnt guaranteed to get you boons except in Styx, and poms are usually a throwaway bonus because they dont add to your build, only buff a small portion of it.
turbid needle
That sounds like having a plan.
wheat elbow
It is a plan after I leave Tartarus, yes. But I never enter with a plan.
sometimes I develop one as I go if the stars align.
And again, Chaos, of course not the ONLY reason, but he easily is one of the bigger contributors to bad RNG.
I also agree on the poms.
But they are much less of an concern imo.
native ether
I think as well a big issue is people arent adjusted to the 5 less rooms they get in Asphodel/Elysium. Maybe that's just because they haven't adapted, or its because there's a significant lack of those rewards that used to be offered before the final biome which are now not, which has increased the difficulty of building a good run. (And its not like the game before wasnt nerfed in correspondence. The Hydra got a very noticeable health buff.)
wheat elbow
There could also be a case made about Centaur Hearts. On non-heated runs, there really is no reason to not reroll all Centaur Hearts always.
turbid needle
That is common knowledge.
wheat elbow
Gotta say, the Hydra Fight Still feels a lot faster to me because of those changes to the phase transitions. The fact that the fight itself is so smooth makes you forget that it is harder now.
Also, you usually end up being powerful by the time you meet it anyway, so there is that.
native ether
Once I get 225/250 health I don't find myself taking hearts. I definitely find myself taking them if I'm below that threshold and I wouldnt recommend rerolling them unless you seriously trust yourself with 100/150 health
wheat elbow
There is a difference, pear. I usually never get even close to that before Elysium.
native ether
I pick up most of my hearts in Elysium, definitely
wheat elbow
On that last one I just showed, I fought the beefboy duo with 150 HP.
And 25 of those HP came from Thanatos, so it wasn't even by choice.
native ether
So did I, but I ended up taking dog collar just to buff threshold to 210 for Styx
which was unfortunately the right call for that run because had I not, I would have died in Styx
Because I was offered 1 heart, and it was the wing one. No health purchases
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, that is another good one. Unless you reroll it, one should always go for the health pick up first in Styx.
You really want to have that health upgrade the moment you find sach and healing well to get the most healing out of it possible.
native ether
I usually blow all my rerolls before styx anyways
wheat elbow
It's a small difference, but, you know. Small fry also makes waves.
I have gotten fairly conservative with my rerolls. On that last run, I had two when I ended up in Styx. Rerolled the Pom room into Athena who gave me Merciful End.
native ether
I typically only reroll god boon mini boss doors and that's just to change the god into something that directly benefits my build
since there's a guarantee that the reroll will be another boon
wheat elbow
In High Speed Update, I usually rerolled money and poms because they were low value.
Now, I want to make a habit out of only rerolling Centaur Hearts and the occassional miniboss room. And sometimes poms.
native ether
i can see rerolling poms because i find them low tier. Rarely do they help my build in the end unfortunately.
wheat elbow
In Asphodel, there are a few rooms with three exits. If these three exits are Pom, Money and Health, you can get a reroll for a guaranteed godboon there too so that also always helps.
native ether
There are specific niche cases where poms are incredibly useful, and its mostly on boons that dont get diminishing returns on their effects, like Pressure Points.
That's good to know, I didn't know that myself
wheat elbow
You can't reroll into something that othr doors already offer
native ether
I suppose that makes sense given that it cant show the same option as another room
wheat elbow
And with Poms, Hearts and Money being the only "low" gold laundrel rewards, rerolling one of those can only end up giving you a god or a hammer.
Exactly!
native ether
was about to say hermes boon but lol he's technically a god
wheat elbow
Technicly he is.
See, and those are all the small things that just come together nicely every run for me to give me exciting runs
It's just a good time all around imo.
native ether
I do think though Fated Authority really shouldn't be "required" to guarantee that a run comes together. I think it should definitely speed that process up but the game should still be enjoyable and beatable without it
turbid needle
I don't think it is.
native ether
Like being able to know how it works and abuse that tech to the fullest extent is great, but its not something we should be relying on overall for casual runs because the reality is the average casual player isnt gonna have that, not for a long time.
wheat elbow
I think that the game is still playable and enjoyable without Fated Authority. You lose out on big powerspikes early on but you make up for it with better survivability.
But Fated Authority remains as part of the game. The last Mirror Boon everyone is looking forward to to get it and the big Darkness Sink of the game.
Add to that that the Mirror really isn't expensive, all things considered, up until that points.
native ether
I don't think it really is either but I think there's a lot of run rng with the current update where I am (and others have mentioned this a bit I think) getting lots of builds that "nearly come together"
And considering the difficulty of the final area, I don't think that's a good thing, considering losing to a run with bad rng is considerably less enjoyable than losing a run cause you messed up.
its not fun to lose regardless, but its much more annoying to lose to foul rng than to lose because you simply weren't good enough. One makes you feel like you need to improve, the other makes you feel out of control and like the game messed you up because it could.
I think a lot of this will kind of go away if the final boss gets slashed a lot cause boi he's overtuned right now. Overtuned a lot lol.
wheat elbow
Like, consider this: Every Mirror Update - Rarity Boosters and Fated Authority
Only 2250 Darkness, exactly.
Both Rarity Boosters cost another 2500 Darkness, each.
And then the first Fated Authority starting at 1000.
native ether
Oh yeah, but that's still gonna take some time to get assuming you're not beating the game on every run, and using no heat.
wheat elbow
But you also must remember that Hades drops 250 darkness now.
If we only go with bosses, you can get 400 per full clear. 440 with dark thirst.
native ether
But you're not gonna beat Hades every time, especially as a new player without a fully unlocked mirror
wheat elbow
And you don't need to.
native ether
Assuming you beat Theseus every time that's 150 a run.
wheat elbow
Remember that being killed is also part of the experience. Hades is supposed to be a hard place to run out off.
native ether
Oh I don't disagree, you aren't supposed to win every run. But you should be losing because you're bad at the game, not because the game decided you ought to have a bad time.
wheat elbow
Yeah see, and I hardly if ever get that. The only case where I feel like the run is purposely giving me a bad time is when Poseidon keeps forcing himself on me.
Now THAT is RNG biting me in the butt.
But even that can be worked around with.
native ether
You've never had Artemis offer Dash Attack 4 boons in a row have you :kappa:
wheat elbow
Artemis and Chaos enjoy pranking me like that every game.
turbid needle
In Hunter Dash's defense, it is pretty nutty with Spread Shot and Heavy Slug.
native ether
oh its amazing there
dash attack is what makes heavy slug usable tbh
guess my overall point is id prefer a little more consistency in my runs, as right now they feel really rng dependent, and my personal skill at the game doesnt seem to really matter (to a point), only if the build I have is broken enough to beat the final boss
coming from the guy who beat theseus with the rail at 120 heat, my personal skill and ego means a lot to me lol, i wont deny it
turbid needle
I think if Hades were rolled back the game would be at about that point.
native ether
I definitely agree, though I'd like to see some more run consistency added in (which maybe that's the plan with Resources 2.0, /shrug idk)
no doubt supergiant is reading all of this and is already 20 steps ahead planning out how to address my feedback, wouldnt be the first time that's happened to be entirely honest
That being said I love how much harder Styx is now
Actually feels like I could lose a run there if I go in like an idiot and dont play well
whereas before it was like "oh lol i can get hit by these lasers"
wheat elbow
Yo the styx floor difficulty feels fine now
That one was actually too easy before imo. Good changes there.
turbid needle
I'd say all that lightning was more important.
wheat elbow
Duo Boons were Zeus/Pos, Zeus/Athena and, because Athena is just whack, Spend Spirit
The lightning was applied by Poseidons Duo Boon and the Wrath Effect exclusively.
Double Sword Nova Poseidon Special was contributing just nicely.
I actually was sleeping during the run and took much more Centaur Hearts than I wanted to.
But it worked out.
And yeah, the sea storm....still not working completly fine. It doesn't work against some Enemies, Soul Catchers and Skullcrushers.
Also, it doesn't see, to proc all of Zeus. I had the Zeus legendary and as far as I can tell, that did not proc.
I checked the recording, it seems to proc. I can see 40/60 damage pop up. But the lightning Ball doesn't seem to show. But thats okay.
Also, another thing much less talked about: Dionysus Wrath effect. I really really like it!
Makes an amazing god even better.
I'd say that Zeus, Athena and Dionysus have the best wrath effects in the game overall at the moment.
serene sleet
Were the amount of boons you get before Theseus lowered after the new patch
Or do you still get the same amount
indigo compass
hmm anyone have trouble with the sword special not hitting enemies that are in the circle ?
feel very inconsistant , had witches and numbskulls very close to me that just dont take any dmg from the nova
upbeat junco
So with the rerolling of boons into other boons that are in the same groups, it seems that after the patch the gods are no longer in 2 groups however from what I've seen (I've only done 2 runs so far where I've been rerolling them to see new groups), it seems that rather then there being groups of gods each god rolls into 2 more gods. Athena into Dio then Artemis, Poseidon into Dio then Athena, Dio into Athena then ..., Artemis into Ares then ..., Zeus into Poseidon then Dio.
wheat elbow
@indigo compass They nerfed the sword Nova range in the last update.
indigo compass
yes i know but i'm talkin about enemies that do are in range sometimes not taking any dmg
while others that seem farther away do take dmg
wheat elbow
Sometimes, it seems like they stand next to you but a wall is between you, maybe with the corner.
The Nova does not deal damage through obstacles, so that may be another cause.
indigo compass
thats another weird thing sometimes while no wall is there nothing happens and than other times i can dmg em around corners, thats why it f eels so inconsistant
wheat elbow
Corners are a very peculiar thing in this game.
indigo compass
yeah
wheat elbow
Sometimes, I get stuck in the smallest of corners, unable to move/dash out even though it should be simple
but no, even the slightest corner in a wall can put you to a full stop
or keep you from leaping over a gap
indigo compass
yeah it can really mess u up at times
wary knot
This ended up going surprisingly well. Never gone in on the Adamant Rail special before. The Big Bad Boss does spend an awful lot of the fight invincible to start, it gets better though! Having 400 HP and 5 DD charges definitely helped a lot https://imgur.com/a/9H17m7W
Wasn't as bad as I was expecting, hadn't faced them post patch yet. I did get clipped by a double damage spin for enough to make me physically wince so that was pretty buff!
wary knot
The adamant special seems pretty great, how would you build for the regular attack? I can never make it work
wary knot
If there wasn't a cap on poison or if doom worked differently I could see those being good. But as is?
wheat elbow
Not sure if you have seen any of my runs thus far, but I usually rather go for runs that synergize greatly in general instead of turning one ability into the single star of the show.
Especially with the rail, it is arguably the one weapon that makes use out of all your offensive capabilities at once the most.
Like, when I use it, I throw out my specialk, while the grenade8s) is/are airborne, I throw out a cast to ensure that I can get a flinch on the enemy to make the special hit
Using the meantime to fill with regular attacks and/or dashes
Almost every other weapon only allows me to use 2-3 actions regularly like that
so simply because of that, I never try to make a single aspect of the rail stand out. There is just too much to be gained from creating strong synergies.
wary knot
Mmm, yeah that's a fun way to play it. Makes hammer upgrades a little less powerful though because they only upgrade one part of the whole package
At least it felt that way to me
wheat elbow
I mean, not really.
Usually, I end up going with tripple bomb and the buff bomb
The playstyle remains the same as before
all that changes is that the special becomes a bigger part of my damage and that me standing in my own explodes makes everthing deal even more damage.
I usually take heavy slug or spread shot to maximize the damage I deal with the regular attacks I deal in between.
I never stand around and just fire off infinitly, so those two work greatly.
wary knot
Yeah those 2 upgrades seem pretty good. I had trouble getting the others to really pop, but again I've barely used the rail
wheat elbow
Popular opinion, but most of the attack related Rail Hammer Boons are fairly mediocre.
Infinite Ammo get's a lot of buzz and people just love to spam away.
In my book, it's overrated.
wary knot
Yeah reloading is only annoying with slugs or spread shot. Although I suppose new spread shot doesn't have that as much of a problem anymore
wheat elbow
If you play as I described earlier, the time you use to throw out casts and specials is perfectly used to reload, making infinite reload absolutely redundant
hushed ledge
I feel as though teleporting to the spear would actually end up feeling rather clunky, as the setup required for it to be useful doesn't flow well with the rest of combat
wheat elbow
I mean, it always depends on the execution.
Imagine if Zagreus did a small attack where he pops up with the spear.
Now that'd be cool.
And then you create a Hammer Boon that doubles down on that idea by making it stronger and/or more flashy.
hushed ledge
I think that leads to a very campy playstyle honestly
wheat elbow
The spear is already the most campy weapon in the game anyway.
You either sit back and charge your attacks for huge crit damage
hushed ledge
Yeah
wheat elbow
or you sit back and poke regular attacks while the enemy remains hitstunned.
hushed ledge
Which is funny because it always felt like it's advantage should be that it's really strong at its distance
wheat elbow
No matter which one of those you do, you're making sure that you ignore the existance of the special because it's bad.
hushed ledge
Actually, why not give it a tipper?
wheat elbow
Tipper? I don't know, Tips aren't exactly a thing here in germany.
wary knot
Isn't there a hammer upgrade that does that?
wheat elbow
Heard they are huge in america though.
wheat elbow
Not sure what you two are talking about now.
wary knot
Yeah, extending jab: Attack has more range and does 130% damage to distant foes
wary knot
Would be cool for that to be a more innate thing though
Is very flavourful for a spear
hushed ledge
Honestly I think the tipper should be baseline
wheat elbow
Ooooh, thaaaat.
Yeah, never take that one, it's the worst.
I go on record and say it is the worst spear hammer upgrade.
hushed ledge
Potentially, which means that making it baseline wouldn't make the spear too strong
wary knot
Is the distance for 'distant foes' the same as with the keepsake, because if so that's so far away
hushed ledge
You'd want it fairly generously on the tip of wherever the hitbox is if it were baseline imo
weary wigeon
I had my first good Stygian run taking the quick attacks hammer upgrade and the increased damage after you special
Got stacking Ares debuff on attacking with the Athena/Ares duo boon
wary knot
Sounds sweet, I haven't got a chance to use the quick attacks on the sword
weary wigeon
Still got one shot by Big Bad
hushed ledge
I'm still burnt out on sword even after 8 months
The other option could be to have spear special knock back enemies decently far it hits on the initial journey. You are throwing a spear after all
wary knot
Spear always just felt a little ineffectual to me unless you stand still to charge the big spin, which just gets you hit in later biomes. Wonder if there's a different way to build it that I'm not seeing
hushed ledge
I think the spear held attack is mostly a gimmick, but because the main one doesn't have hitstun on armour it really can't do much later on
Silly idea: what if hitting an enemy with the spear made them take more damage from the spear for a bit, via a stacking debuff
wary knot
That could be cool! It's kinda tricky to give extra effects to weapons without them stepping on the toes of some boons though
Making it sort of a 'momentum' weapon would be interesting though
hushed ledge
Right now it just feels like you're tickling an enemy a lot, and having it stop feeling like a tickle would feel great
wheat elbow
I feel like that would be a neat thing for a hammer upgrade.
hushed ledge
Yeah it's definitely more of a hammer feeling
wheat elbow
Frankly enough though, I think that the weapon that is in most need for hammer love right now is the shield.
Especially with the knockback nerf, the options the hammer does have feel more underwhelming than ever.
open geode
honestly the shield is still super good
to be fair, i just had a run with a bunch of epics, 2 duo's and 2 legendaries
so my opinion may be kinda skewed
i think i killed the last boss in a minute
boreal estuary
Yeah shield is the only one weapon which brought me into Elisiym.
upbeat junco
so now the narrator said I died of a cold
digital lynx
Shield is pretty good for staying alive considering it almost blocks everything. If you're not too impatient and try to rush through, it should take you pretty far.
Though, it's probably not the best weapon for trying to learn the game I think
upbeat junco
I'd say probably bow is best for learning. Helps your learn how to dash and dash attack properly
boreal estuary
Bow is too low in terms of crowd control. But maybe I'm missing something.
upbeat junco
Not really, the bow has really good crowd control. Arrows stun and can hit multiple enemies in a row. Getting twin shot widens the hit box a little bit, and triple shot is pure crowd control.
boreal estuary
Oke. Thanks. Will give it a try. Any builds suggestion?
faint carbon
any %damage boons on attack with power shot / triple shot / twin shot hammers I think work pretty well
upbeat junco
Artemis attack with Aphrodite, get the Artemis Aphro Duo
faint carbon
yeah artemis is good
upbeat junco
and hammers in terms of what's best in this order twin shot, perfect shot, triple shot.
boreal estuary
The only problem is you have not too much time to load the bow... ):
upbeat junco
sniper shot is probably the next best after those three and explosive shot will probs kill you in Styx
unreal slate
bow + Artemis is great for the early game, I love it, but I feel it gets significantly weaker in the 2nd half of the game
upbeat junco
yea charging the bow can feel weird initially but generally if your dashing between shots and keeping your distance you have plenty of time to charge a shot
unreal slate
Probably because raw damage is great in the first half, but statuses/disables are better in the 2nd half
Still, Bow + Artemis is a great way to play for a beginner
will carry you far and let you discover many enemies and aspects of the game
boreal estuary
What do you think about Poseidon attack and explosive shot combination?
upbeat junco
well if your going artemis aphrodite, the weakness debuff will half the damage you take
haven't tried it, but I've heard mixed feelings about explosive shot, the increase to charge time pretty much makes it so you can't get power shots late game.
Poseidon is fine tho
@unreal slate when I've tried Artemis bow, while not the strongest build, I thought it was still pretty strong late game.
really good against multiple enemies because of the new hunters mark that marks nearby enemies and if you crit them it marks another enemy just basically shredding groups.
and most bosses also have more than one enemy/target in it allowing a hunters mark to activate
digital lynx
I'm pretty new so take what I say with a grain of salt, but the Hammer upgrade that removes cast time but also removes power shot for bow is pretty strong with Artemis
upbeat junco
depends on the build. For a build like Artemis Aphro, having power shots is pretty necessary. However if you want a build like Ares Athena having a quick shot which places the curse is really good
Rapid shot with Artemis can be alright i guess but you'd get more damage out of the build if you kept power shot
digital lynx
I think I'm probably horrendous at Power shot + dash attack and not getting hit. I did a hell lot of damage but died pretty easily to Hades
upbeat junco
Don't worry, everyone is dying a lot to Hades at the moment. He is a little overtuned.
That and he is a very hard boss.
digital lynx
I think that build was before that update soooo. Haven't figured out bow quite well enough
boreal estuary
Does anyone know consistent way to avoid last boss attacks?
digital lynx
Which attack are you referring to?
I ask that because each attack has its own way to avoid it based on my personal but limited experience
upbeat junco
Most of his attacks are melee, so just keep running away from him as you attack if your using a ranged weapon
His projectile can come out of nowhere so that can be a bit tedious to dodge but mainly just dodge into it or to the side and it will go straight past you.
digital lynx
I often play very on the edge and try to train by dashing into his attacks to get a dash attack off, abusing the short invul-frame
upbeat junco
For his laser attack, there is a pillar on the right side of the room, hide behind it and it won't hit you.
For the vases, my current strategy is to get as far away from Hades as possible, because if for example he is on the right side of the arena the vases don't go all the way over to the left side. So when he shockwaves, all the vases will be destroyed and the shockwave won't reach you.
digital lynx
Do the vases trigger off walking over them as well as hitting them? Or just on hit
errant narwhal
@sudden zinc, have you been checking out the merchant at the house? He can give you the option to trade your darkness/heat for keys each run. it’s random what you get each time, but it might be a solution to your problem.
upbeat junco
They trigger from any damage, walking into them, and from Hades attacks.
digital lynx
Hmm, so basically walk through them very carefully?
upbeat junco
If you have Athena deflect you can dash through them breaking them and you won't get hit. But even if you have another dash, you could just dash through them.
digital lynx
I think every time I dash, I end up dashing straight into another XD
The vases trip me up every single time
upbeat junco
Yea currently my issues with the fight right now, is his speed and the vases.
digital lynx
I've been getting more and more used to dashing straight into his attacks and reacting to the wind up of the projectile
upbeat junco
Just earlier I managed to win on 3 health with no more lives with a build that is not very good.
digital lynx
Nice
I think everytime I've beat him thus far I've relied on an Impervious call when he uses the vases
upbeat junco
I think I only survived because my attack boon was aphrodite so most of the time I took half damage
digital lynx
Does he actively attack you when he uses vases? Or is it that when he uses the vases, he winds up and makes them all explode at the same time
I haven't been paying enough attention to that
upbeat junco
I generally use my invincibility call when he starts doing the 2nd phase laser that shoots in every direction.
Speaking of that, in my last run I used my Ares call and sat on top of Hades, but I accidentally used it before it fully charged so it used only one charge and ended early.
So the invincibility ended while I was on top of him and the lasers were still going, but I wasn't taking any damage.
digital lynx
oo that's pretty interesting
I didn't have trouble just walking very slowly in bewteen the lasers though
I stayed a moderate distance and just threaded step by step
upbeat junco
Yea I guess you can stand right in the center of his hitbox and you won't take damage
digital lynx
I mean the lasers come from the spears, so it sorta makes sense
upbeat junco
I've prefer to stand behind him in the 1st phase when he is shooting the lasers so I can continue shooting him. But in the 2nd phase I have to hide behind the pillar or use my call.
digital lynx
I believe its possible to be in between lasers in phase 2 unless I remembered wrongly. Though its risky
Well, I'm really enjoying experimenting with builds so far. 20+ runs into the game and loving it
upbeat junco
Yea I just don't even try to go between the lasers in 2nd phase and I agree Hades is awesome.
digital lynx
Also something to ask, is there any way to gurantee Hammer as first boon? I've watched some speedruns and notice it always starts with that. Since the keepsakes are always different, I assume they post those runs mainly
upbeat junco
No, there is a chance that a person will get a hammer in the first room but there is nothing to guarentee it.
digital lynx
Thanks!
autumn tapir
breaking: hades fight still unfun
I haven't managed to kill him once post-patch, pre-patch I killed him maybe 3 times
stable oyster
I disagree with it being unfun
autumn tapir
the difficulty feels so out of tune with the entire rest of the game
autumn tapir
in general the final boss of a roguelike isn't a wall, it's a test of your build and everything you've learned up to that point
this doesn't feel like it's either of those
stable oyster
What does it feel like to you then?
autumn tapir
it feels like a series of massively damaging, incredibly difficult to avoid attacks
I felt like he was perfectly balanced before they buffed him
stable oyster
The attacks are empowered versions of other bosses attacks with a few extras thrown in
upbeat junco
Even if they are empowered version of other enemy attacks, they are still incredibly fast and deal too much damage for how fast they are.
If you get hit by Hades' blood shard you can literally get one shot on his next attack.
upbeat junco
I get that but I think the damage values are a bit too high.
stable oyster
It’s about the journey not the destination with rougelikes
upbeat junco
Probably the most viable strategy to beating Hades atm is to just stack health and lives
stable oyster
Or just dodge things, it’s only been like a week, it takes time to master a boss fight
Hades seems to be designed to test your skills regardless of the strength of your damage
And I love that, because no matter how strong my run is, there’s still a sense of tension
digital lynx
I think to some extent though, you will bound to slip up sometimes in the fight. The damage numbers are slightly overtuned for that.
On a side note, does anyone know if dash attack is coded as an attack? ie. If you do a dash attack, do boons that boost "Attack" increase its damage?
upbeat junco
Yes
stable oyster
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the effect
upbeat junco
All boons that effect attacks effect dash attacks
stable oyster
For example pulverizing blow
digital lynx
^ exactly what happened
stable oyster
Won’t make your dash attack hit twice even though it says attack
autumn tapir
it's only been a week but I can definitely tell you that he's too strong
stable oyster
Yea that gets me every time
digital lynx
I did still crit on a lot of dash attacks for a hell lot of damage
So overall it worked out
Shield is just so entertaining
stable oyster
Yes
digital lynx
The nerf to Shield was pretty sad. Was real fun being a pinball
stable oyster
yea, but wall slam was a bit busted
digital lynx
True. I started a day before the post update update, and Wall slam felt pretty strong
I guess you could still do it with Poseidon attack but...
stable oyster
I remember that at one point I was hitting for an extra 40 dmg with each attack with no attack boons just from slams
upbeat junco
Also I was talking about it before, but I think I'm currently experience a glitch where I get the same run over and over again despite having won and lost multiple runs. When I say the run is the same, I mean that while the layout of the run is different all the boons are the same. Generally the run starts with Artemis keepsake and it gives me Hunter dash then I find a hammer and get either triple shot or twin shot, afterwards I get Aphro cast as well as several other boons. When I get to Elysium I get either Sniper or Perfect and in Styx I finally get an attack boon, but its generally either Aphro, Dio, or Athena.
This has happened every single time
digital lynx
I don't think I've been paying enough attention thus far XD
digital lynx
Those can be pretty irritating, but at least you made it! Every run you learn and get better 😃
native ether
The Satyrs are probably tied for the most threatening enemy in the game, especially the elite ones.
Tied with the Snakestone
And I don't think I need to explain why that one is XD
crimson geyser
haven't ventured into Styx yet, but just had by far the easiest encounter with theseus and asterius for some reason. hadn't played in like 2 weeks, loaded into an old spear run that was saved halfway through tartarus and somehow just blazed through to Styx and stopped. this is only the second time i've been able to beat theseus, and the spear is def not my favorite weapon. did they make him weaker?
i wasn't even that excited about my build... though i was pretty stoked to get the daedelus upgrade that caused my special to bounce between enemies, since the shield is by far my fav haha
boreal estuary
What gods did you have?
digital lynx
From what I heard, there was an update that made bosses weaker overall. But I'm not too sure when that was
serene sleet
bruh WTF DOES HADES EVEN DO
faint carbon
pain
serene sleet
What is that stupid thing that he throws at me
then boilingblood
like wtf is this boss fight nothing is explained, everything is happening at once
faint carbon
thats his cast, if you get hit by it you take double damage
serene sleet
I never get boons anymore, everything is changed
faint carbon
his abilities are similar to zag with a spear
serene sleet
I loved this game, 1 update, now I dont like it as much
faint carbon
agreed tho
serene sleet
so much has changed it sucks
faint carbon
everything feels worse on this patch
serene sleet
honestly
went from being my game of the year to something I'll play every now and then
temple of styx is dumb af, hades is dumb af and rushed, I dont get boons NEARLY as much
turbid needle
Uhhhhh
serene sleet
I went from having like 15 boons at Theseus to 4
turbid needle
Ok
serene sleet
like its such a bad time for me
sacred swallow
i agree that the game went somewhat downhill with the big bad update
turbid needle
I have no idea how you manage to only get 4 boons for Theseus. Regardless, with his recent nerfs, I don't think you really need to be stacked to defeat him.
serene sleet
I beat him just fine, but I only got Pom of Power Upgrades, and Weapon Upgrades
and Icould only upgrade like 1 thing
so wtf is the point
turbid needle
That must have been insanely unfortunate RNG
serene sleet
maybe, it was my first run, so maybe Im being harsh
turbid needle
I always have like 10+ boons going into Hades, and more than enough going into Theseus
serene sleet
but thats never happened to me ever in like my 30 hrs
until the update
But I remember before the update, having a boon on all my abilities, and like 7 or more on the side on Thesues
when I got to hades I had like 8 total
blazing mulch
What's are red onions? 🤔 🤣 🤣
faint carbon
it's an onion that's red
wide vessel
soooo what are people's tips for the last boss? what weapon do people prefer using?
faint carbon
shield, hold down bull rush, profit
turbid needle
Sounds like sword and shield are the two weapons to use right now. I had a Rail run this morning that showed promise (had Hades in second phase and was doing work) when I got hit with a Cast and my game crashed. Ate the run, too.
Sword and shield will give you a lot more mobility. Currently, Hades punishes you extremely extremely hard for staying still at almost any point.
I'd like to see this changed, since the spear, bow, and rail all need you to have some stick time in order to leverage your stronger offensive options.
Or just get a really stacked Hunting Blades run and play Yakkety Sax while they do the work.
boreal estuary
@wide vessel My recommendation is just use shield combined with Poseidon attack and Dio\Aphro dash. Get rupture as fast as u can. And then add Zeus for Poseidon&Zeus duo.
light nova
I have 2 cool stories for you guys
I did Hades on 60 heat without special, cast and Call :DDDD
- During the previous run i took Sure Footing having in mind that it will reduce damage from green graves of Hades
It is not
The only situation where it could work (please don't do it) it doesnt
As i told in feedback twice - it's useless, cmon, rework it somehow please. Let it... i don't know deal damage to monsters when i run through them
light nova
emmm i need to find out it some how?
i mean it's easy
First of all if you can't evade his cast like me - you should have duo boon from Athena Aphro
Dash through him if he close to you
When he wants to spin attack wait half of it then dash
I don't know what to say more
Hahhaah
I said it's easy like I didn’t die by his hand 30-40 times
light nova
50% monsters +100% damage +100% cost
boreal estuary
Very interesting! Haven't seen anyone picked up 100% cost before.
faint carbon
the increased cost in shops is one of the easier things to deal with
boreal estuary
What is the most broken build in your opinion?
light nova
@boreal estuary it makes game more boring but usefull as heat
+50% speed
It's hell
+20% speed the hell already
+50% it's hell of hells
Or you mean boons
faint carbon
50% speed is by far the worst heat to take I think
actually no tenebrous veil is pretty bad too
but I wouldn't go near either of those
light nova
Actually play without vail is KIND OF interesting because it shows you how new playiers do it
I did my 120 heat run in last patch with it
It let you overthink about usefullness of some boons
faint carbon
veil can be either terrible or great depending on your luck but either way it's a feels bad pact option
lol
boreal estuary
@light nova so any suggestions about cool weapon&boons combinations? (:
light nova
Shield + broseidon, Shields special + ares
Emm
Sword + Athena+Aphrodite
Rail + Zeus for attack and aphro for special
Bow special + Ares or Dio
light nova
I hope it wont be painfull
I mean sometimes random doing strange things
I told tottaly good combos but sometimes you can't get them
Like...
unreal slate
bow special ? now that is an interesting choice there
unreal slate
I almost never use it, because the damage are so low
light nova
It's 7 room or something and legendary
RNG is most part of the game
And you also can see a bug on screen 😄
@faint carbon you will not believe how many damage you can do with bow special and ares doom
faint carbon
yeah but how do you deal with single-target mobs with that build
bosses must take ages
light nova
My record 700 to the face of Bull
Stacks of it and new boon that gives you +65-100 damage for 0.5 seconds
Dire Misfortune and Impending Doom
Relentless Barrage from Daedalus too
quaint gale
700 in one shot, you mean? or one curse?
light nova
1 curse
quaint gale
dang
unreal slate
so you use the Ares keepsake to pile up on Ares boons ?
light nova
Sometimes yes but for sometime am taking +200 gold and play with what i'll get because i can take the same keepsake later to get more boons of the same god
unreal slate
+200 gold ? I never considered that useful. Interesting choice
light nova
Helps to buy kiss of styx
wheat elbow
@unreal slate Consider what 200 gold can be.
200 Gold can be a god boon and health you would not have been able to get otherwise.
unreal slate
yeah but I tend to value quality over quantity
wheat elbow
You can bascially pick up the coin purse at any point, ensure yourself the value of it and can trade it away without remorse.
And I value momentum.
200 Coins in Tartarus can ensure a powerful run.
Also, Hades is in that fun spot where quantity actually helps you achieve quality.
The concept of Duoboons and Legendaries being testament to that
light nova
I'd LOVE to clarify that DeGrand speaks of 0 heat runs as i learn
stable oyster
Slow day at work so I’ll be here a lot
Thinking of starting to upload hades again for a bit before I need to go back to school
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, with convenience fee, that advantage comes to a full stop.
Cutting the value of your 200 coins in half.
What used to be 1 1/3 godboons becomes 2/3 of a god boon.
stable oyster
Yea, still 66% to a boon
wheat elbow
Which can be okay, yes.
stable oyster
Also ensuring that you can buy food before every fight
wheat elbow
One of the reasons Coin Purse is so powerful imo is that it can ensure that very first shop in a run
which is usually very likely to have a god boon
And that purchase in the first shop can really put you ahead of the 8-Ball.
Empowers you to have a good time against the miniboss
stable oyster
I’m a fan of god keepsakes, skull, and butterfly
wheat elbow
allowing you to get that higher rarity reward more easily
I usually go Coin Purse, God, God, Myrmidon Bracer.
I see what the game + Coin Purse gives me in Tartarus, then improve on that with god keepsakes in Asphodel and Elysium, then I become combat ready with the bracer
stable oyster
Artemis start tho 😃
wheat elbow
It's overrated.
If I start with the Arrowhead, she might show up once and then never more
And I missed the best opportunity for the pcoin purse to shine.
stable oyster
Troves
wheat elbow
Sounds weird, butz I feel like seeing what boons you get in Tartarus usually does the job for me
Helps me help the run give me the run the game wants me to have.
Like, a run I recorded yesterday.
Started with the coin purse and ended up having a run that had like, two revenge damage abilities
stable oyster
That’s fair, I don’t always use arrow bc it lowers variety
wheat elbow
so I knew that I could go hard on that and took the corresponding god keepsake.
End result was me having all 4 revenge counters + the duo boon and it was hilarious.
stable oyster
I also never end with any cash
wheat elbow
I actually watch out for that too.
If you have no money at the end of a run, you have been efficient with it.
sacred swallow
it wont cut for heat runs
stable oyster
It will if you don’t take that pact option
faint carbon
Nothing will cut it for heat runs atm tbh lol
sacred swallow
i beat him on 50% frenzy before
wheat elbow
A gold experience
rugged apex
tbh god keepsakes aren't really worth it except to increase boon rarity now, and that's not really... good, because starting with one isn't really gonna add that god to your run
sacred swallow
beat him once on 50% frenzy .. and never again
sacred swallow
with 7 deaths
stable oyster
200 heat is almost impossible now 😦
rugged apex
kinda have to go egg > keepsake of god that's been showing up/purse > keepsake of different god that's also been showing up/purse > bracer or spearpoint
wheat elbow
Oh yeah
rugged apex
since otherwise you just
rugged apex
kinda fall flat
stable oyster
Egg-celent choice
wheat elbow
and Chaos is the best way to screw a run in the beginning
stable oyster
I don’t see what makes purse more reliable than god keepsakes
rugged apex
hold down button, keep firing
wheat elbow
You can keep space pressed down
light nova
What's automatic
wheat elbow
you machine gun all casts
light nova
Oh
stable oyster
I’ve had shops with nothing and also troves
light nova
So usefull....
stable oyster
It is very
wheat elbow
It actually is. You fire them out very fast and furious
rugged apex
purse is free gold - which is useful for styx
wheat elbow
without having to crush your finger
stable oyster
IMO best Hermès boon
rugged apex
the god keepsakes aren't good unless you get lucky with RNG
wheat elbow
I actually think the MS/Dodge Boost after Wrath might qualify here.
Also special 30% boost
THAT one is worth its weight in gold
stable oyster
Allows you to weave cast into your combos
rugged apex
since you can get seeds where you get one keepsake-added boon from a god and never get anything from that god again
wheat elbow
I had floors where I did not end up meeting the god at all.
And if I have to use one gods keepsake for more than one floor
I am missing out.
rugged apex
I've had some uh.... interesting runs
sacred swallow
i quit out many runs not hitting the right RNG on high heat
already on the first floor
wheat elbow
I have a mind set that demands every Keepsake I use to give me some form of lasting value.
sacred swallow
there are specific "meta" builds which 1/10 will beat hades above 75heat
if i don't get it.. than bye bye for me
and a restart
rugged apex
and by interesting I mean "one artemis boon, then it swings into poseidon/dionysus/zeus and never leaves despite me never picking poseidon"
which isn't fun to see
wheat elbow
I agree.
Though I have to say, my opinion of Poseidon has improved ever so slightly.
light nova
@rugged apex i feel your pain sooooo much
rugged apex
oh, poseidon is good now - but I want a little more control over my build!
wheat elbow
Still, having met Artemis that one time gave you vlue of your keepsake
You saw the goddess you were promised
as oiften as she was promised
and she gave you higher rarities.
rugged apex
true, true.
wheat elbow
And for me, while not perfect, that is okay.
The keepsake will have a lasting improving effect on the rest of the run
Which is not something, say, the Skull Earing will do.
stable oyster
?
wheat elbow
That one for example is something that has to bethe final keepsake
rugged apex
but it's still not feelgood to want one boon pool(quad A) and get an entirely different one
stable oyster
Skull is like the best by far
rugged apex
especially with how much shorter each floor is
wheat elbow
because if you use and then drop it, it won't have a lasting effect for the next floor on you.
It was just a temporary empowerment.
stable oyster
Oh I see what you mean
wheat elbow
Also, Skull Earing lost alot of luster
The death defiance changes were surprisingly enough a nerf to it.
rugged apex
skull earring is a lot worse now that you fight a boss that can do 60 in a hit
wheat elbow
That and DDs bringing you to 50% decreases the damage buff uptime.
DDs also being remarkably expensive now also doesn'tr help.
stable oyster
That’s not sound logic
wheat elbow
When you could stack them on mass for 90 coins and each one of them would mean that you could keep fighting on with the power buff active
stable oyster
Because you need to get low again anyway to die
stable oyster
Until you get hit
sacred swallow
since they nerfed lambent plume i haven't felt good with any keepsake
wheat elbow
And knowing how hard Hades can hit, that threshold can be weird enough to ensure that you will keep dying without getting any use out of it.
stable oyster
Try egg or skull
sacred swallow
they bracer is nice but still not the old plume
stable oyster
Just do troves
stable oyster
The madman
wheat elbow
I just like getting stacked.
stable oyster
Now I see how you always have 200 at the end of the run
sacred swallow
i hate that you cannot regen hp in this game, a god that has life leeching powers could be sweet
wheat elbow
I usually leave Tartarus with 6 to 9 God Boons on me.
HP gain is pretty much one of the most delicate things to balance and rebalance in this game.
I believe life leach was in the game at some point in the past.
Before I started playing
stable oyster
Sword used to be able to
unkempt pagoda
there was one lifestealing sword upgrade that was swiftly removed
stable oyster
It was insane
sacred swallow
life leech could be fun to play with
unkempt pagoda
very very early on in hades' history
sacred swallow
if balanced
stable oyster
It was fun
wheat elbow
I mean, how do you balance life leech
stable oyster
Very fun
wheat elbow
I have seen it in a lot of games
stable oyster
Make it flat
wheat elbow
and I can say, from the bottom of my heart
that I enjoyed it never.
It always ended up being frustrating, either because it was weak, overpowered or, in some cases, just nonsensical.
The Secret World had life leech as the special mechanic for, and let this sink in
Assault Rifles
Assault Rifles leech life
to heal your allies
rugged apex
getting hit for 120 makes skull earring a lot worse
stable oyster
Not if you have 121
stable oyster
A single rat
wheat elbow
Which probably could happen in that Hades fight, if you think about it.
Not sure if Hades can drop enemies from Styx. Can he?
stable oyster
I haven’t seen it
autumn tapir
no, he doesn't command them
autumn tapir
not that it matters a whole lot because he's busy studying the art of atomic warfare
autumn tapir
you can get stuck
wheat elbow
I find that that space is relatively saf
autumn tapir
I managed to get stuck in there
wheat elbow
Never got stuck on the Hades fight
autumn tapir
tbh I can't remember if I actually got stuck or if I was just being blocked by enemies down there
hushed ledge
The life leech upgrade was miserable
I wonder how much of that was being attached to release sword though
hushed ledge
all hail 10-10-10 attack chain
river pier
Does sword still have vampiric daedalus upgrade?
river pier
Then they returned it back with some changes
hushed ledge
huh
river pier
Or I might be wrong
native ether
It currently does not exist within the game
Hasn't existed since the Chaos Update
There's currently no upgrade in the game afaik that gives you lifesteal
(and a lifesteal upgrade in the current balance of the game is probably way too good, as health is made to be a very valuable resource)
sacred swallow
game right now is pretty unbalanced anyway
may as well drop us some new things to play with
broken cipher
It would definitely require some rebalancing to work well but in the current state of the game it might not even be the most broken thing.
Also, it's striking as to how much easier Elyisum is compared to Asphodel or Styx. Styx being more difficult makes perfect sense but in terms of overall challenge Elysium lags behind the earlier biomes. Except perhaps for Tartarus and even then the traps are easier to accidentally dash into than Elysium's. Not to mention the boss battle sort of pales in comparison to both the Hydra and the final boss in his current incarnation. It feels super safe even at low health. Which is great and all but it's jarring to transfer from that to Styx.
stable oyster
I find asphodel much easier than Ely
Also other than the final boss what is everyone’s issue with game balance
turbid needle
I think the game balance is very good right now with the exception of the final boss.
autumn tapir
final boss is the only balance issue I can think of
except maybe that artemis is too good compared to other gods but that might just be my personal preference
turbid needle
Artemis is stuck in an awkward spot.
She's powerful if you invest in her or get just the right accessory boons to another build, even without Duo boons.
What balances that right now I feel is the chance that you don't get a boon that is a strong accessory.
Like Exit Wounds on a mostly castless build.
Yeah, it's extra damage, but it doesn't really crank the run up to eleven like Burst Fire can.
autumn tapir
yeah her cast boons are situational but Pressure Points + Hunter's Mark is such a powerful combo and it works on literally every build
turbid needle
Does the final boss summon adds in the second phase? I can't remember off the top of my head.
finite grail
yeah
turbid needle
Tuning Hunter Mark down would solve a lot of that problem, honestly.
finite grail
Minibosses, even
turbid needle
Right now you can basically set up old crit builds where every blow has a better-than-even chance to crit.
autumn tapir
part of hunter's mark's strength is that you can basically ignore what you would think is its downside (doesn't mark the enemy you're currently hitting)
but since there's so many aoe options, you can easily delete an entire side of the chamber without much effort
stable oyster
Except vs hades
hushed ledge
hydra is a really cluttered fight imo
autumn tapir
I was thinking of adding "except for hades" but I think I've made my distaste for current hades clear
stable oyster
You can’t spell hades without hate
broken cipher
The reason I made that observation was entering Elysium with 15 HP and 0 death defiances and walking out with 150 HP. That. Is a definite issue for someone that is as bad at this game as I am. Trying that in Asphodel would've gotten me melted and walking into Styx with no death defiance is a problem because a) Snakestones and b) final boss. But Elysium...the only real difficulty there is the boss battle and Theseus is very easy to deal with leaving Asterius as the main challenge. And keeping enough distance negates that hurdle very quickly.
upbeat junco
Hunters mark can be used against Hades, it activates from his projectiles and from the enemies he spawns
The only time hunters marks can't be used is against tisiphone
@minor mauve I just saw your thing in feedback, Hades' projectiles can be deflected
turbid needle
Pretty sure they'll still detonate and hurt you, though.
upbeat junco
no they bounce back and hit Hades.
unkempt pagoda
all these posts about how hades is too hard and here i am not even getting to him because i haven't played in weeks 😔
upbeat junco
When I've had a Athena attack build I'd constantly be hitting the projectile, and when you athena dash is really good against them
broken cipher
To be fair, Athena Dash is really good just in general. Can't imagine skipping that when offered.
upbeat junco
I generally only get either Athena dash or Artemis dash
turbid needle
Merciful End and Deadly Reversal. 
upbeat junco
also Athena dash has always been like this, but before the dash rework it would actually change your dash, where you'd stand in place for a split second before dashing forwards, any attacks that hit you while you were standing still would be deflected
unkempt pagoda
i remember the days when deadly reversal was The Build™
upbeat junco
Yea, guarenteed crit, made the Vicious Skewer Spear even stronger
broken cipher
Athena boons are 👌
turbid needle
There was a point in time where Titan Toppler still stuck you for a split-second after the dash rework.
Thankfully that went away.
Deadly Reversal is still a game changer if you've got the right Divine boon.
unkempt pagoda
vicious skewer days were before i joined this discord, so i didn't get to join in on the fun 😔
i honestly thought it was trash when i first saw it back then
turbid needle
What do you guys find synergizes best with Vicious Skewer?
I think at this point the only time I would want to use the spear is if I can get Quick Spin or Exploding Launcher.
upbeat junco
Artemis special would be best wouldn't it?
turbid needle
Wait, Vicious Skewer doesn't bounce, right? That's Multiskewer?
turbid needle
50% crit on the return.
native ether
Just like to echo chamber that I still think Elysium is the hardest biome in the game
Sure Styx is now incredibly challenging but Elysium currently there's honestly a good chance your build isn't fully developed. And everything there hits like a truck.
turbid needle
There's merit to that thought.
native ether
Leaving Elysium your build should be developed enough.
upbeat junco
I think Styx is slightly ahead, mainly because of of the elite Snakestones and Satyrs
turbid needle
I didn't have any Deflect this last run and hoooo boy Satyrs were poisoning me consistently.
native ether
Styx is definitely a hard biome. But it has the advantage of your build being basically mostly done. Elysium you're trying to collect final pieces of your build, which is pretty dangerous when you consider your best source of boons are gonna be mini bosses and the 2 are Butterfly Ball and Beef Boi
upbeat junco
also gotta love when you fight 3 elite giant rats in a small room FeelsGoodMan
turbid needle
You know, I don't think the Asterius miniboss fight is that hard.
native ether
And that everything in Elysium still moderately hurts
turbid needle
You have to REALLY know the fight, but once you know it he telegraphs super hard.
upbeat junco
Yea but the enemies in Styx generally have as much or maybe a bit more health than chariots as well as being incredibly obnoxious
native ether
Really depends on how well your build is established. I've lost runs to him because my build wasn't complete enough. I don't think he needs changing though.
turbid needle
Same with Tisiphone. They require really high execution, to be sure.
I could do with giant rats having less HP.
broken cipher
The butterfly generator of endless frustration is a problem, yes, but everything else is easy to deal with.
Satyrs and rats in a small chamber however...and Snakestones. God the Snakestones.
native ether
I do think the game is decently well balanced minus the final boss though.
turbid needle
Satyrs are just chunky enough.
native ether
Sure tweaks can be made but I don't think it's that unbalanced. Mainly just the final boss feels overtuned and that's it.
upbeat junco
One tweak that could be made is slight reducing the speed of the snakestone lasers. They are just way too fast at the moment.
broken cipher
Agreed.
native ether
I also definitely don't think Asphodel is harder than Elysium lol. Asphodel is mostly just projectile spammy, and most of the rooms are big enough that it's not too hard to deal with.
turbid needle
The Exalted are head-and-shoulders tougher than the Bloodless.
Elite Spreaders are worse than Splitters, but chariots drown everything else out.
native ether
Exalted Greatshields and Longspears continue to be my most disliked enemies in the game.
turbid needle
Sword is balanced because you're going through at least 3 rooms of nothing but exploding cats and they will whittle you unless you've got a hard counter.
native ether
Yeah I'm not a fan of flame chariots but they do counter full on melee builds.
Otherwise on a sword run I'd just go get Aphro cast every time.
turbid needle
It's my worst nightmare, a bunch of cats that are meowing at me but I can't hug them, I gotta run away.
I've still ate dirt from cats with Scatter Shot.
broken cipher
It's just... everything in Elysium is easy to dodge and the respawning traps make trap kills easy. Versus Asphodel where environmental hazard is a problem, especially when wraiths decide to camp out at the edge of the map.
turbid needle
Well, at least in Asphodel if your Casts fall off the sides of a given island you can get them back at the cost of a little HP.
With Elysium they're just gone until they respawn (I'd like to see a rework like when food drops from an Eye of Lamia'd enemy where Casts will slowly move towards the nearest walkable surface if they land off safe ground).
And three Longspears charging? Not easy to dodge, at all.
unkempt pagoda
notice how the dog in this game is nice but the cats are all explodey and bad
is sgg telling us something
turbid needle
Mix in a few chariots of either size and a Splitter or two and you've got a mess.
It's a matter of perspective, really.
broken cipher
🤔 Hm. Fair enough.
unkempt pagoda
sgg are all dog people
broken cipher
T~T Cats are precious. It's just that Cerberus is best doggo times three and really, who doesn't want three best doggos?
river pier
I just misread this "Casts are precious" lol
pseudo totem
Hey guys, will Zeus's lightning strike affect all 5 bullets of an admant rails spread fire?
By that i mean will chain lightning trigger for each bullet or just per each fire?
wanton niche
My instinct says 'per fire', but I'm not sure. I feel like having it trigger for each bullet would be crazy powerful and I doubt the devs would keep that in the game.
pseudo totem
I thought so. Haven't played since Theseus came out... I remember Dionysus poison works with spread fire though
Thanks @wanton niche
wanton niche
Hey, it could be per bullet, I don't know, I'm no dev
pseudo totem
All g, I'm pretty sure I tried it awhile back just couldn't quite remember.
upbeat junco
No I've tried Zeus lightning with shotgun, it doesn't work it only shoots one lightning ball
native ether
That's unfortunate
upbeat junco
That and shotgun with Dio attack, instantly max stacking the poison was probably one of the thing SG was looking at when they added the gun
waxen skiff
He's been at 0 health for a while
upbeat junco
no i haven't had that :/
waxen skiff
Maybe I should try quit and restart I guess
wanton niche
That sounds like something in need of an 
waxen skiff
F10?
wanton niche
Press to report bugs
waxen skiff
ah
Yep
Sent the bug report
I'll try quitting out
Crossing my fingers
Cause this run was clean
5 defies going in to Hades with hunting blades
And 275 health
unkempt pagoda
@ripe iron it'd be better to separate your points into multiple posts, so people can vote individually on which ones they agree with
if i disagree with one of your points but agree with another, how and what do i vote for, etc
waxen skiff
Should I task manager end task?
Anyone know the best way to do this to have a chance to keep my run?
upbeat junco
yea probs end task it
waxen skiff
😦
It's gone
Well that sucks a lot
It didn't even give me the collectables earned from the run
So I lost like 300 darkness
And some keys
unkempt pagoda
hope u remember ur rewards
waxen skiff
It just worked out well
errant narwhal
so if you retrace your steps, you might be able to get it all again, hopefully without the bug?
waxen skiff
My understanding is that seeds diverge sometime through tarturus
unkempt pagoda
alternatively, you can go different ways and try for better rewards
waxen skiff
Am I wrong?
turbid needle
I've had runs explode like that (lost at least two wins to crashing on a Cast when it hit me) and they don't stay identical.
errant narwhal
i dont really know that much about it myself
waxen skiff
😦
unkempt pagoda
it's the same seed but going through different rooms will still grant different rng
waxen skiff
I still haven't gotten a win on this patch yet in 4 tries now
And this run was pretty much guaranteed
sigh
short jasper
I got an easy win on my very first run, 0 heat. And then I bumped it to 10 heat, and had three failures in a row on the final boss
and I was regularly pulling off 28-40 heat prior
upbeat junco
Just got a great run where I nearly cleared Hades' first phase without taking damage, got hit with 2 projectiles at the end 😭
turbid needle
You get the W?
How is Lucky Tooth supposed to scale? Is it 45 HP when the player has 50? More? 45% would make it a trinket worth taking, but that also might make it too powerful.
I know it gives a set 45 HP, but this was when normal DDs gave back 20%, to make it a comparably strong option. Now it's strictly inferior on any run that has maxed out health.
rugged apex
right now it's 15/30/45 which is, uh
terrible, compared to 50% DDs
oh you mean like, what percents
idk, really - but it should be more effective than it is right now
wheat elbow
Let us also not forget that Skellys Tooth still has a place in the hearts of many 120 heat run players.
kind cloud
Poseidon: Still trash against bosses after this update even with Razor Shoals and rupture damage. F that guy and his crappy powers.
T-R-A-S-H
Btw, I laughed at Hades having an attack that does 75 damage per hit. That's instant death in heat runs.
jade estuary
trying to figure out what to choose to beat the game
keepsake + weapon
are sword / spear any good now
or is shield still the best
broken cipher
Well, Poseidon's not entirely useless—knockback is nice in Styx and the bounty is good if you're low on health and there's no fountain room ahead—but yeah, if another deity's boon is an option...probably pick them.
Sword is definitely far better now than on release. The special's got a shorter range now but with all the damage upping boons and upgrades you can find, it's still very good.
Shield seems to be preforming quite well though I gather there's been an adjustment there too. No idea about Spear though.
jade estuary
ill try sword then
i get annoyed by impatience by shield's lack of DPS
i feel like sword dps is one of the better ones
esp on theseus lol
takes absolutely forever with most shield builds
broken cipher
Oh definitely. There's a Hermes boon that ups attack speed as well if you happen to stumble across it. Mind you, there are better boons to pick up first but if you want pure DPS, that'll be helpful.
jade estuary
kk awesome
what boons should I aim for?
i usually start chaos
to try to pick up some lucky 50% damage or something
and hwat hammer upgrades
daring elbow
I finally beat Theseus and the Minotaur and made it to the temple. I was doing quite well until I arrived at the areas with poison, which I found to be quite annoying. Yes, I know you can cure it but personally, I think it's a bit too OP at the moment. I got there with around 265HP, managed to clear one of the rooms but died on the second quite fast. What's the general opinion on said poison?
broken cipher
Ah. Well, that really depends. Athena, Artemis and Ares are all good picks. Athena's damage mitigation's a lifesaver, Artemis' crits are godsend for bursting down bosses quickly and Ares' doom effects are going to go a long way to increasing base damage. Blade rifts are also nice ngl. They also happen to have very nice Duo boons. Aphrodite's weak effect is useful too if you prefer that to Athena's deflects. Hmm, Zeus works very well with Ares if you want to focus on taking down the enemy with Vengeance effects rather than by just dodging. Won't exactly make you durable but it's useful against Snakestones.
Hammer upgrades: Armor Slayer is going to save you so many headaches. Empowering Nova is great. I run Cruel Thrust myself but World Splitter is good too.
Poison is terrible. Just. Satyrs. Giant rats. Poison covering 95% of a room.
ember pumice
I really don't like the poison. Between that and the snakestones, I always take the broken spearhead right before entering Styx. Of course, I'm also not that good at the game (and still haven't beaten the final boss), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
boreal estuary
Poison is really meh bcause of green screen.
kind fiber
@kind cloud Poseidon can by good, you just need to spend your poms upgrading your primary attack to the extent that you can actually wall slam bosses
Its probably still bad for heat runs, but you can do stuff with Poseidon now.
broken cipher
Which deities does Poseidon synergize best with? I haven't gotten a ton out of him in my recent runs.
Actually...now that I think about it, for DPS combining Flurry Blade with Hermes' faster attack boon would probably balance out the drop in base damage. Not to the point of being on par with World Splitter but if you had Ares or Dionysus, hell even Artemis on attack then it wouldn't matter.
feral flower
I really like Poseidon with Zeus. Sea Storm applying both Rupture and Jolted is pretty sweet if you can get all the pieces you need.
broken cipher
Oooh. Jolted is great so I'll see if I can get that working next run.
pseudo crow
it's been a long while since i played, can someone tell me what the pink orbs with the butterflies do? o:
kind fiber
They stand still and spawn butterflies
broken cipher
Spawns more butterflies.
broken cipher
It's terrible. Kill it as quickly as possible.
They don't disperse.
So get rid of it fast.
kind fiber
or, don't and clear other things off the screen first while kitting the butterflies, whatever works really
broken cipher
Unless you have a ranged weapon. In which case feel free to ignore it.
pseudo crow
yeah don't worry, it's not giving me much problems, i just wondered what exactly it did haha
so the butterflies hurt you?
broken cipher
Yup.
kind fiber
yeah, 3 damage a hit
They are destructible but as of a recent patch, are no longer capable of being deflected
pseudo crow
ouchie ouch okay! that's good to know ^-^
stark sky
just ran into an armored satyr cultist and just wanted to say he is absolute cancer, if you run into him with no speed boosts or extra dashes it was literally impossible to move in on him with the spear. 
. why did the shield lose its knock back on basic attack? and i've beaten hades 4 times & have yet to beat him since this weird patch a couple days ago boosting damage on a lot of stuff like the giant vermins basic attack doing 35 now.....? thats more than most bosses base attacks. and the buffs to hades now are a little more ridiculous but it feels right for the end game challenge right now.
broken cipher
Haaah. Styx with no speed boosts. Oh god. Would not recommend. Anti-armour boons and upgrades are pretty helpful on that count. Because satyrs are terrible and Styx doesn't have much space to dodge them. At least you can deflect their shots, I think. Giant rats are probably worse if only because the rooms are small, the poison gets everywhere and five seconds after healing you're inevitably poisoned again. And again.
stark sky
tell me about it 
. that armored satyr tho literally had me putting down the controller with 2 death defiance's left (i used 2 before that already on the same satyr) he shoots 5 needles rapid at close range and with no speed or dodge boosts its literally IMPOSSIBLE to dodge that shot at close range. and when your out of its range it was not possible for me to use my spear near it and my cast boon was the love shotgun so if i wanted to deal a quarter of his armor damage i would of lost a good 30-40 health at least spamming everything i had before jumping for a cure to instantly get poisoned again. but if i really tried to kill him it would of honestly taken 10 to 15 mins at least that was not a cool/balanced experience considering i was playing without increasing the difficulty at all. most rooms should take maybe 2-5 mins to clear not including the final few boss rooms.
broken cipher
Okay that just sounds horrible. Wait. How good is Spear's damage currently? Because your spin should have a longer range than Sword's attacks. Actually...that spear throw ought to be useful too. Was it not enough to take him down?
Honestly, at this point I've got at least one Hermes boon each run. Increased movespeed and faster attacks are always a bonus. He may not be handing out huge damage increases but I am 100% down for speed boost after dash. He's got some great support skills.
native ether
Poseidon synergies best with Zeus, Aphrodite, and Dionysus because that's the duo boons he has atm
broken cipher
Oof. I should've checked the wiki then.
native ether
Zeus really increases your damage, Aphro and Dio are both early run synergies that can get you the best power scaling boons in the game, Exclusive Access and Sweet Nectar.
If you go the Dio route you can also tap into the Dio Zeus duo if you grab Tipsy Shot
You should go for mixing with Poseidon early though. Exclusive Access (every future boon you find is epic) and Sweet Nectar (all poms increase 2 levels instead of 1) are much better the earlier you find them.
A general Poseidon strategy for me involves taking him on something, then trying to build Dionysus as fast as possible to snag Tipsy Shot and Exclusive Access, then using Asphodel/Elysium to hunt for Zeus boons.
broken cipher
Now I'm intrigued. It definitely sounds like a good setup! Though if I could run him with Aphrodite and Zeus then that'd be pretty great too. No Athena means weakening is pretty necessary for me. I am definitely not good enough at the game to go without damage mitigation.
kind fiber
He also has a duo boon with Artemis, not sure how good it is though, haven't had a run built around it
broken cipher
He does??? So concievably, a Poseidon, Artemis, Athena run is possible?
native ether
Poseidon doesn't have one with Artemis
Zeus does though, that's likely what's being referred to
broken cipher
Oh, I see. Lightning Rod is pretty great, yeah.
stark sky
i was throwing my spear. i tried every possible move. the spear spin attack would off taken too long with the armored satyrs attack speed. and i got hermes twice that run and neither offered a speed boost or extra dash. and i died before i could buy the one in the styx lobby, (which probably had one of those speed boosts). the game just gave me some shoddy generation on that run. i literally tore through theseus and his minotaur bro just before this fight, so i was baffled that this one enemy could do so much harm if you didn't have any type of speed boost. cause literally my damage was all based on crits on that run with the 50% chance of a crit on comeback when i throw the spear, i was kitted. i just didn't have enough speed and that really wasn't fair for the situation.
broken cipher
Wow. That is terrible luck and this doesn't sound like something that should be happening then. This patch does make certain playstyles far more viable than the rest. Which is a damn shame.
native ether
The goal with the build I outlined is to end up grabbing these 3 boons by or during Styx at the latest:
Sea Storm (Knockback deals lightning damage)
Exclusive Access (All boons epic)
Scintillating Feast (Festive Fog deals lightning damage)
Ideally you want Exclusive Access first because it'll give you better rolls on everything else you can find.
boreal estuary
The spear feel's like the worst weapon. Only special hit's several enemies ability works fine for me.
broken cipher
Ooh. Which boon do you recommend on Poseidon as a base before the duo's?
native ether
As for what weapons that would work well with? Bow with Poseidon attack for sure, Poseidon Wrath and any weapon would work. Poseidon attack on rail can be good with the right Daedalus Hammer (imo Slug or Spreadshot) and situationally Poseidon dash works well with it too. You also always wanna build Tipsy Shot which is great AoE damage.
broken cipher
Yikes. Okay so spear probably needs a damage buff in a future patch.
native ether
And bc you need tipsy shot to do anything with Zeus/Dio Duo boons lol
stark sky
yea my issue is i don't even have my mirror fully upgraded for getting rare and epic boons. i started playing the game a couple months ago so my chances of getting the good boons are lower then most. i feel this update is more focused around synergizing good boons then actually being good at the game with its weapons. its should be a mix of having fun with the weapons and seeing how they mix the godly upgrades verses forcing some type of build.
broken cipher
Thanks for that in depth info~~~ It'll make this so much easier. Looks like I was trying to force Poseidon into a role he wasn't actually useful for.
Ah. I'm in the same position on the not fully upgraded mirror. It's definitely starting to look less than ideal.
boreal estuary
Feels like spear needs some kind of better aoe. Current is tooo slow. Maybe if aoe would provide short immune time spear will shine again.
native ether
I like Poseidon atm usually less because of his Knockback but because he can offer a lot of run utility
stark sky
this game updates well for returning players but it becomes a bigger and bigger plate for a newcomer to take on. which is fine but it shouldn't prevent you from beating the game. just because you needed to do a little bit of a mobile grind. its almost like they need tiers of difficulty per run. like dead cells you beat the game and you unlock hard mode which has harder variants of enemies spawn. so you get they same runs through randomly generated rooms but it feels like your constantly getting stronger while fighting a more challenging world. verses just making the world extremely difficult to survive to make a buch of the mirror currency
native ether
Not to mention getting Ocean's Bounty is very good now.
broken cipher
Sunken Treasure is probably the boon of his I took the most after dash or attack. Because health restoration is a blessing.
Probably not the greatest choice in retrospect.
native ether
Sunken Treasure is unfortunately usually his worst offer though it's situationally useful.
Cause it does offer that healing but you did just lose a boon basically
Poseidon runs are pretty fun though, ngl. Definitely still wanna go for the meme vengeful mood build.
upbeat junco
@stark sky the hard mode in Hades would be the pact of punishment. If they were to implement a hard mode system like Dead Cells it would probably be better to do it towards the end of development when the game actually has an end.
Also I think Hades is a good mix of skill and build choice. Even if you were to choose the strongest build this patch, if you don't know how to beat the enemies you will lose regardless of how strong your build is.
native ether
And I really wanna try out Lightning Phalanx the game refuses to give it to me.
upbeat junco
What did lightning phalanx do again?
native ether
Makes Athena cast bounce
Which is potentially insane wave clear cause Athena cast already does damage in a larger area
And her cast is one of the most damaging in the game
upbeat junco
But against single targets, it wouldn't be that great tho would it?
hushed ledge
hades is really difficult if you don't know patterns
native ether
Not to mention building the trifecta that is Athena Ares and Zeus has got to be one of the best power houses in the game
You can easily spawn some Ares in and get Merciful End
boreal estuary
I thinks Artemis is also good.
upbeat junco
Artemis is best girl
I would be using her, but my game either glitched or I'm getting absolutely terrible RNG. Because I haven't gotten Artemis attack in the past 10ish runs.
broken cipher
Hm. In terms of difficulty, Hades is far from the most unforgiving of roguelikes. But, as much as skill helps, good boon synergy and the right keepsakes help far more. Coming from someone who is generally terrible at action games.
Artemis is great. Do you have her keepsake equipped? Or did the seed just ruin the run. :/
native ether
Artemis is best girl
Not only does she have the best lines
She gives me the numbers
I need my numbers
I do definitely think Hades is one of the easier Roguelikes I've played. It's possible that's just due to early access.
upbeat junco
Every time I've attempted to do an Artemis build I start her keepsake. It will give me Hunter dash or something else that I don't want. Even after getting 2-3 more Artemis boons after that I still don't get her attack. This kept happening multiple runs in a row.
hushed ledge
hades is fairly easy but low darkness makes it a lot harder
and bosses have loads of hp
stark sky
@upbeat junco i know thats what im saying. but now there are situations (like the one i described) where no matter what you grabbed towards the end game when your a new player you'll die no matter what might as well give up. (ive beaten hades 4 times i know how to play) but when your facing an armored satyr with no speed or dash boon its not possible. i literally took almost every best possible choice in that runs situation. but yea the hard mode that dead cells has shouldn't even be implemented until everything is finalized. i really wanna see why Mama Zagreus left 
native ether
That is true. Darkness is really what makes the game so easy tbh
Especially Thick Skin and Deep Pockets
And ofc Death Defiances
hushed ledge
i got a clear last patch with 750 darkness on my first run in a while, but that was because i had a lot of experience (although i went into elysium blind lmao)
native ether
I'm surprised you cleared Elysium first try blind lol
That's not very common
Especially due to mr. chad and beef boi at the end
mr. chad thundermuscles has ended lots of my runs tbh, when I was a baby zagreus
And he's ended pretty much all of my 120 heat runs lol
All except 2 of them. The one that I won, and the one that made me realize Styx is impossible at 120 heat
upbeat junco
I managed to clear Elysium and Styx first try. For Elysium, although I beat it first try, my next couple runs I got facerolled. Whereas with Hades I beat him first try then another 4 times in a row after that before the patch came out and he became much harder.
native ether
Styx also super buffed itself tbf
Everything there now really really hurts
And there's no easy ways to avoid enemies
broken cipher
Styx is. An experience.
upbeat junco
I don't think I've actually lost any lives to the enemies in Styx but rather on Hades.
native ether
That's actually why 500% damage isn't a viable pact strat anymore. You just can't dodge enough.
Styx has never killed me on a normal run but it has beaten me up enough for the final boss to turn me into mince meat.
minor mauve
@upbeat junco thanks for that. They still need tuning down imo
upbeat junco
wait what am I be thanked for?
hushed ledge
my run was like super broken when i cleared elysium blind
although it was a massive grind
700 darkness is not much
broken cipher
I consistently leave Elysium better off than I entered it and consistently leave Styx with an express ticket to the blood pool. Poison whittles down HP enough that walking in to the final boss is basically an instant "get hit once there goes the first death defiance" and it just gets worse from there.
native ether
I mean unless you're incredibly confident in your ability as a player I recommend leaving Styx when you find the fountain.
Otherwise you're gambling with that health source.
broken cipher
Usually need a boon Charon has and don't have the funds for it, unfortunately.
That's the problem with not having maxed out the mirror. My build isn't completed and often the boons the chambers contain aren't the ones from gods I actually need.
minor mauve
@upbeat junco reminding me that Hades projectiles can be deflected
upbeat junco
ah
turbid needle
So I tried the Myrmidon Bracer (had Holy Shield already) in Styx and wow it was actually pretty big. I had a stacked run in the first place, but seeing Weakened Hades hit me for under 30 damage was very helpful when I was pushing 200 HP.
broken cipher
OwO Under 30 damage???
turbid needle
Got lucky and had Aphrodite that run, but by keeping up a pretty consistent offensive I never turned my back on him much.
(if you guys haven't maxed out all Keepsakes yet I really recommend it)
broken cipher
Definitely maxing that next then.
pseudo totem
Yikerz. Just got to styx for the first time and just reached the final boss...
This new boon is God like
The Zeus/Athena duo
With jolt, and blinding light as well as rupture and the Zeus/Ares Duo slapping Doom on at random intervals
pseudo totem
Yeah... Wtf at that final boss
I thought I had it
Then he was like... Naa kid ur trash and deleted me
boreal estuary
Hey, guys does Swift Strike increase charge speed of Bull Rush?
pseudo totem
I've only had it so far with the rail. Increased gun fire speed...
boreal estuary
Hate Hydra! Worst boss besides Hades.
open cargo
just started yesterday, only got Hydra with the shield