Hit me from behind with my myrmidon bracer up once while I had a bloodstone
#h1-builds-and-combat
formal hill
im still trying really hard to get past mino and his buddy ðŸ˜
that biome keeps kicking my butt ):
wheat elbow
Times six, 960 damage.
Halfing that, looking at 480.
Still a one hit in almost all cases.
formal hill
oof
wheat elbow
Now if we assume that we still have the Myrmidon Bracer here though, we can shave off another 40% off that.
faint carbon
that requires you to take myrmidon bracer though
wheat elbow
Suddenly, that hits for less than 300 and the attack becomes survivable without losing a DD.
Remember that this was a niche example.
wheat elbow
It requires you to being hit by a bloodstone before.
So it is more likely that you are being hit for half of that instead.
Which would be moving in the realm of 200 to 300, depending on how the "stars align"
which, again
is enough of a difference between losing and not losing a death defiance.
And, of course
that is ignoring all the times before the hades fight
where all that damage mitigation will safe your hide big time.
faint carbon
I feel by taking bracer and a weak source you lose too much damage for it to be relevant on higher heat runs - you can get through biomes 1-3 without getting hit mostly, the hardest to dodge attacks aren't enough to remove a DD even on 500%, and once you get below like 50% hp half of your build becomes irrelevant because hades is gonna one-shot you through it anyway
wheat elbow
I mean
Weak is part of one of the highest Damaging set ups right now
so that argument loses out somewhat fiercly there.
wary knot
I mean yeah at 500% extra damage, charm isn't gonna save your behind, not much will besides a DD right?
faint carbon
what setup is that? i'm unaware of it
wheat elbow
Aphrodite/Artemis Crit
faint carbon
also the rest of my essay got removed by the bot for having "a swear" in it so that was nice
not typing all that again
wheat elbow
Artemis' Crit by itself is very strong, especially with the updated Marked
river pier
Why aphrodite?
wheat elbow
Aphro/Artemis also have a duo boon that further increases critical damage by another 135%.
river pier
Oh, got it
wheat elbow
She also has other nice toys such as dying lament and her weak effect can also increase damage enemies take by up to 25%.
Also, Aphros Boons are just very strong on their own, damage wise
and with the last patch, she even received a full gauge wrath that deals 2500 damage
now imagine getting a crit with that on a marked target.
faint carbon
what weapons is this with though? I don't see a way of keeping weak applied while also consistantly critting using the shield
which is the only weapon I see being viable at high heat hades
wheat elbow
I did it with the shield.
river pier
shield is the best I think
wheat elbow
On my last run, sword applied the weak, special was artemis' crit
I added extra spice with Athenas Dash and her duo boon with Artemis
for even more crit chance
faint carbon
I don't see sword being able to deal with hades on higher heat personally
native ether
did they buff the final boss spin attack?
wheat elbow
Yes.
native ether
it was 60 base before the patch
oh dear lord they buffed the most damaging thing in the game
not like this
i was worried that was what got buffed
wheat elbow
From what I have seen, they buffed most notable things of Hades by just doubling it.
native ether
wow
faint carbon
I don't think hades needed buffs lol
wheat elbow
I did not look at everything bit by bit
but the whirling attack and the laser are what I took notice off.
And they were dealing round about twice as much damage as before.
native ether
Yeah I agree I don't think he needed any buffs considering I've beaten the game with 120 heat on the Adamant Rail and I was still having trouble with him at 0 heat
faint carbon
since the patch the entire game has felt harder tbh, it must be the shorter biomes
wheat elbow
I can't stress this enough
difficulty wise
the game was perfect on patch day.
It was exactly where it needed to be.
native ether
The shorter biomes have made the game much harder, and I don't think in a necessarily fun way tbh.
faint carbon
you've been doing only 0 heat runs though right?
wheat elbow
I also don't thjink that they made the game that much harder necessary.
On higher heated runs, that may be differently, but remember:
As of now, there is no indication that the game is based around heated runs.
native ether
I don't think the problem is the shorter biomes. I think its that you have to min-max your build a lot more because you get less rewards and that's not necessarily fun to do tbh.
wheat elbow
If anything, I'd go and say that heated runs and people doing'em are a minority.
native ether
^^^
I actually really like that Asphodel isnt as long as it used to be, but I can't deny I needed that length to setup my builds.
faint carbon
it's not based around heated runs but considering there's "achievements" for it it still needs to be somewhat achieveable
wheat elbow
@faint carbon I have two 120 heat runs under my base as well.
faint carbon
not on the current patch though :p
native ether
I'm gonna just go out and flat out say it, I don't think 120 heat is currently possible
faint carbon
the current patch is where the difficulty issue is
native ether
I've been running a few attempts
wheat elbow
Not as long as Hades is like he is right now.
God knows I enjoy a good challenge.
Contrary to what I sometimes say, I do value my personal well being and would prefer not to stress myself over way too hard videogames.
And also
The game offers me no reward.
faint carbon
like I could consistently 120 heat clear pre-styx and now I struggle to 70 heat even theseus without real solid rng
wheat elbow
I could finish the game at 120 heat and all I could take away from that would be a screenshot and one hell of an youtube video.
faint carbon
the general power level just feels much lower
wheat elbow
I can only disagree, man.
The general powerlevel is much higher than before
thanks to the whole lot of additions and changes that have been made.
Are they harder to get on a heated run?
Possibly so, yes.
native ether
I think my issue with the game right now is even Hades on 0 heat requires a well tuned and "near perfect" build in order to beat him. There's no way you can stumble into Elysium with a half build like you could against Theseus and still win if you were exceptionally skilled.
The problem is rarely do I find myself getting that. Its a Roguelite, its not meant to be like that. But it does make it honestly rather annoying when the difficulty of the game is more "am I going to get enough boons to set up my build this run" and not "am I good enough to beat the final boss"
wheat elbow
I mean, yes and no.
faint carbon
of course the power is higher with more options available, if you get those perfect options
wheat elbow
Hades gives you much less ways to manipulate the RNG
brisk island
Lately, Light of Ixion and Trove Tracker buggy. They literally consuming without effect - someone encountered that?
wheat elbow
and the RNG in this game is much much less of a hassle than it is in, say
The Binding of Isaac
where you have hundreds of items in one item pool
native ether
I'm going to not count Fated Authority at all since I doubt most players have unlocked as many ranks as I have.
wheat elbow
with half of them being duds.
We have gods having small and concise and sorted god pools
AND get to choose one out of three options
constantly.
And can even influence what god we meet to a degree.
native ether
It doesn't help that I've had runs where I've found literally 1 boon in all of Asphodel. The rng can be that bad.
native ether
And I don't think it should be allowed to be that bad.
wheat elbow
I buy out every shop
and go to all the mini boss fights
always
minus asterius
him I skip every now and then
though I never skipped him in this update.
native ether
Lol I was only offered one miniboss encounter. That was the boon
wheat elbow
You know what?
Asterius, great point!
During the High Speed Update, I entered Elysium feeling so underpowered, so wanting so often
that I considered the single fight against Asterius a constant possible run ender.
In this update, I steamroll him every game.
Anecdotal evidence, yes
native ether
Asterius can still very easily be a game ender tbh. I find that to be the case more in this update than the previous update lmao.
wheat elbow
but I take that as a sign for me that the power curve has changed to my favor with this update a huge lot
native ether
I find my builds developing in Elysium, not Asphodel, and thus Elysium minibosses have increased risk.
faint carbon
^
wheat elbow
Sometimes, if I am lucky, my build is done in Tartarus
and everything else will just be sprinkles on top
faint carbon
and even then I don't feel like my builds are complete till hades
I think with the lower biome lengths there should be a higher ratio of boons to heat/keys/darkness
wheat elbow
Like, the episdoe I uploaded today?
faint carbon
and increase darkness/key/heat amounts for newer players
wheat elbow
Got my first duo boon in the last shop of tartarus
faint carbon
so they don't lose out on content
wheat elbow
and that was my run. Everything else was just me piling up more damage on the same plays
OH MY GOD!
native ether
But I don't think it helps that you need a near perfect build to beat Hades, and the game doesn't guarantee that you can get that before Styx (which I feel like it should, given that the way Styx works, it doesn't feel like you're supposed to be finishing your build there, more just perfecting it)
wheat elbow
Lolk
I wanted to watch Haelians latest video, a speedrun
I pressed play and started to have this discussion with you
while I wasn't watching, he made it all the way to hades
Took the boss melody starting for me to notice
native ether
lol nice, speedrunning is fast as ever
wheat elbow
(That send a chill down my spine, my body became combat ready on instant)
Wow
Artemis Crit Double Nova 90% Special Damage from Chaos.
´See, that is what I mean?
He is already stacked
and hasn't even met the first boss yet
faint carbon
doesn't he just restart till he gets the optimal starting seed and then work off that?
native ether
Problem is that is a once in a blue moon scenario
faint carbon
i'm pretty sure thats what speedrunners do
native ether
thats exactly what he does afaik lol
wheat elbow
I mean, that's the thing
native ether
although with hades what defines an optimal seed is kinda handwavey since the seeds arent "exact"
wheat elbow
It really is not.
Once you have a few fated authorities, you can basically guarantee a good Tartarus floor that serves as the foundation for a good run.
faint carbon
yes but you can't use fated authority on high heat runs
we're well aware you think the balance of 0 heat is fine
wheat elbow
I mean, you can't if you make that choice.
native ether
The problem is the game shouldn't require Fated Authority to be enjoyable like that. Fated Authority is the most expensive upgrade in the mirror.
faint carbon
I'd tend to agree, minus hades
wheat elbow
You are not forced to make that choice.
Take Haelian again as an example.
For most of his 120 heat runs, and he has a few of them under his belt
He still had all his darkness active.
Simply because he enjoys it that way
and why wouldn't you?
You ensure getting more god boons and them having higher rarity
faint carbon
but it's only optimal because he's speedrunning with an optimal seed
wheat elbow
while also having more damage, more health and more survivability.
native ether
I don't think the game should be balanced around Fated Authority because most players are not going to unlock a bunch of Fated Authorities to win the game. They're incredibly expensive and the last thing most players are going to unlock on the mirror.
faint carbon
he takes tenebrous veil aswell right? he just runs over and over until he gets optimal rng and then it looks great for a video
wheat elbow
The first one is like what, 1000?
faint carbon
but there's a lot of time spent that we don't see
wheat elbow
Also remember that Hades now drops 250 darkness on top of that the beefboy duo gives
native ether
1000 / 2000 / 3000 / 5000 / 10000 is how I believe it goes? not certain
wheat elbow
Darkness is more easy to come by than ever.
I am working towards the ninth one and it goes for 40000. I am only 13k or so away from it
Probably less
native ether
He does but the game should not require a specific mirror upgrade to be enjoyable tbh.
wheat elbow
I mean, you say "restarting for optimal seeds" like it's a bad thing.
Is running into the wall that is a "bad seed" repeadedly until you are too stressed out for your own good that much better?
Because that'd be the alternative.
Say what you want, but his approach is arguably more healthy
and probably more promising in terms of ensuring success.
And that is coming from someone who isn't doing it himself.
I headbutt those walls
until they fall.
faint carbon
the thing is though you keep arguing for the whole "the balance is fine with boons because this one speedrunner who restarts many times isn't having problems"
not everyone is that guy
it feels really bad when you get like 2 boons in 2 biomes
native ether
It is a bad thing from a design perspective lol (and I'm not saying that to go after the devs lol, I think they've done an outstanding job)
A game should not feel like you need to optimally reset runs over and over just to enjoy it. If that's what you do to enjoy it, then all the power to you, but that definitely shouldn't be what most players feel like they have to do, and it definitely shouldn't be a solution for casual players.
wheat elbow
And that is the thing
I don't think that you need to do that
But if you don't want to search for the perfect seed
you have tro make the seeds you DO get work for yourself.
And for that, there is no way around stiffling darkness.
Or rather
no way around skipping it.
You feel comfortable about your playing skill, frenzy/torment it.
That is 90 heat all by itself.
Still very beatable.
Allocade the last 30 heat as you wish.
faint carbon
frenzy/torment is not "very beatable" lol
wheat elbow
See, that is
your opinion.
The game has been beatable with exactly that in the past.
It may as well be still beatable with that.
The update is what
native ether
No that is factual given I have played Styx at 120 Heat and you actually die in 2 seconds lmao
wheat elbow
3 days old?
4?
Well, next time, you will live for 3.
The day after that, make it five.
faint carbon
do you have a video or screenshot of anyone beating it with 50% whipped 500% torment? because i'm fairly sure (not 100%) that some attacks are undodgeable on 50% whipped, which is fine without the damage increase
native ether
You cannot play styx with 120 heat with 500% damage and full frenzy lmao that is factual. Snakestones alone deal 18 damage a tick, attack way faster, and crawlers do 18 a tick and move and attack unbelieveably fast.
Not to mention Poison is affected by Torment.
wheat elbow
That certainly is good to know.
In that case, you have to run the marathon.
All the enemies
super tanky ones
speedy
And you got to own it.
native ether
I'm in Styx right now reloading a save with one of the best builds I can think of. (Hunting Blades, Vicious Cycle, 6 Ammo, Increased Size and Length)
wheat elbow
Will probably take an hour or so.
"safe reloading"
Now that is something else.
That is cool but searching for a good seed isn't?
native ether
I don't believe it is doable. That won't necessarily stop me from trying just to say I did it, but I don't think a single person is going to.
faint carbon
it's not that "it's cool" it's that it's necessary lol
wheat elbow
I can only repeat what I said earlier.
Using the pact as it stands right now is not something that the game actively encourages
and the pact has not been changed one bit since I started playing
so I go on record and say that the devs probably have something in store for that later down the road.
native ether
And I will actually entirely agree with that. The pact is likely going to be changed as it was designed before Elysium and Styx were created.
wheat elbow
Hopefully, by then, with some rewards to go with that.
So everything you do now
will not only go unrecognized
it will also only lead to frustration.
Do I believe that you can't do it?
I don't.
I am sure you can if you try hard and often enough.
But I also don't want you guys to stress yourselfes out over it.
Hell, I am being stressed out by Hades being as ridiculous as he is on regular difficulty since yesterday.
Now that is an actual topic that needs tackling, let us discuss that one instead.
native ether
I'm specifically when talking about my issues with the game, only referring to 0 heat runs lol. That's been 99% of my runs.
faint carbon
that doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss everything else lol
native ether
I think the Pact is going to get changes and because of that I don't think its worth discussing because tbh I'm fairly certain the devs are reading these chats and know that the game isn't really well tuned with the pact
And considering the developers of this game, I highly doubt they are going to leave a single stone unturned lol
faint carbon
still worth discussing though
if these chats didn't happen they wouldn't have this information :p
from both sides
native ether
I mean we can say its busted and not really balanced but beyond that what else is there to say lol
faint carbon
even if I vehemantly disagree with everything degrand says
it's a discussion worth having just so sgg can see both sides of the conversation
native ether
I think its better to talk about 0 heat runs specifically because I overall want the game to be balanced from the perspective of a casual player who wants to enjoy the game at "a baseline of difficulty" (no increased difficulty)
and specifically on 0 heat runs, my runs feel a bit too dependent on rng atm, hence my feedback on the game being shorter hurting the experience cause players are getting less things that benefit them in runs.
faint carbon
I haven't really done many 0 heat runs on this current version, been progressing on higher - but I get the same feeling with the biomes
too many times it feels like i'm lacking any kind of synergies
on both 0 and higher heat
like with the shorter biomes you'd want bosses 1-3 to be easier not harder :p I was expecting to go into this patch on 120 heat and manage to do fine clearing up to styx with minimal problems like on the previous patch
and the difficulty should be increased by the extra content afterwards
native ether
I've gotten that a lot myself in this update. I feel like if I don't go into a run with a specific strategy or min-max it as optimally as I can, I'm gonna lose out on synergy.
And that's something I don't particularly like cause I actually like having the ability to play just a "casual run of Hades" where I go in without a real strategy, pick up some boons, and let the cards fall where they may, and then by Elysium, I have a solid plan of what I'm doing that run.
That's something I've not been noticing with this patch. I feel like im only getting to that stage after Theseus and even partway thru Styx, which... feels off-putting to be entirely honest. Because I have very little time to shore up the build and finish it, much less perfect it.
I feel like (and I'm a real echochamber the past few days on this one) the issue is "the end of the game got exponentially more difficult, but the amount of rewards we get in a run was not changed because of the 'shortening' (cause its still the same 35/36 available rewards from rooms)"
faint carbon
yeah I can agree with all those points
placid silo
Imagine if you get to fight all three Furies at once as a bonus battle of sorts
wheat elbow
Just started a quick run
vast eagle
has anyone been noticing a weird gliding thing happening when using the shield? i know that enemy attacks while you're blocking will knock you back a bit, but some knockback will be really a lot, like halfway across the map
placid silo
I see 666 heat
wheat elbow
And that is one of my weaker first floors overall.
faint carbon
degrand is back with his anecdotal evidence and god-tier rng again :p
native ether
that's around 6 rewards? not bad tbh
native ether
I think if every run started like that, then I'd be giving the 👌
native ether
Yeah lol that is definitely not the case for me. I find myself getting lots of "consumables" in things like Tartarus and Asphodel, effectively muddying up my chance of being able to get things
wheat elbow
That is Mirage Flight from the Hammer, Dionysus special, Athena Dash, Attack damage up from Chaos and zeus Wrath
Ah
faint carbon
i'm lucky if I get 3 boons and a hammer by the first boss in tartarus atm
native ether
The problem might be more that consumables are basically "dead rooms" tbh
wheat elbow
If those'd be commons, you could drop the worth of each individual by a lot
See, that is a good point
I see much less of those.
native ether
which is something they're planning on addressing in the next update
I see lots of them
native ether
I think it would be amazing that the farther you got in a run, the less of those you got
native ether
like you get them everywhere in Tartarus, and some in Asphodel, but then it cuts out entirely in Elysium.
Cause I really love how in Elysium half of the doors are offering me basically health or money
wheat elbow
I mean, the game does make up for it by handing you out a lot of darkness and heat from the bosses
which you can all trade away.
Maybe keys and the likes should just not be drops at all
and all should be tradeable for darkness
Anyway, Imma play that run to the finish
faint carbon
I wouldn't mind if they removed heat/darkness/key rooms full stop, made them all boons/poms/gold/hp and scaled up enemies accordingly
native ether
I think they're great as drops because they introduce game mechanics but I'd rather see less of them in higher biomes.
faint carbon
and gave those resources from other sources
would feel a lot less "urgh" every time all your options are darkness/keys/heat
grand patrol
imo i think whats most disheartening is when u see a choice between darkness or key
like, if you have one, the other should be a more useful thing hfhjfhj
so if ur a new player you can get key and if youre a pro u can get boon!
wheat elbow
So, beat megara
Now I am thinking about what keepsake I am taking with me for the next floor.
I have Artemis, I have dionysus, I have Athena, I have Zeus.
Best choice would be going for Dionysus
Getting a Dio Cast with Zeus up would be an easy win,.
And then on Elysium, I can go with zeus to finish the run off nicely or Artemis to further accesorize it with more crits
trim ingot
With the short runs getting duos is hard
native ether
yeah I really dislike the choice of "consumable or consumable" that's the most unfun thing to see in a run atm tbh
that's partially mainly cause I don't need either, but its not fun to see either if your goal is to win the current run tbh.
cause its effectively a "dead room"
faint carbon
remove the consumable rooms, give a scaled down amount of consumable from each room as a bonus maybe?
trim ingot
Previously I defended it cause if you get a reward every room you'd be way overpowered
faint carbon
and scale everything else accordingly to your increased power level
trim ingot
Wouldn't mind decreasing the dead room ratio tho
wheat elbow
Didn't know THAT was a thing.
placid silo
I also have noticed the weird glide when using the shield
trim ingot
Dang proxy is stone cold
grand patrol
it sure is!
wheat elbow
That glide seems to be connected to movement speed increases
native ether
See I like the consumable rooms because for a new player they're incredibly important.
They serve as a natural tutorial for mechanics of the game.
And new players actually really do need those bonuses.
faint carbon
ambrosia rooms should also exist for the purposes of the dionysus boon I guess
vast eagle
yeah, i have hermes +40% speed, so i guess that's what's causing it
i don't thnk it's intentional though i'll see if anyone else has said something about it in feedback
trim ingot
Imo you shouldn't feel like you have to grind in a roguelike
native ether
But there's no denying that the amount of rooms that don't offer "run improving rewards" and how random that can be directly hurts the game because if you get a lot of them, the run isnt winnable. It just isn't, you didn't get enough boons to build a good run.
faint carbon
in a story progression game like this though I can understand some grinding
trim ingot
By that I mean go on a run purely to gather resources
native ether
I don't mind grinding in Hades for upgrades because it doesn't feel like a grind. It feels like I get what I need naturally from rooms.
I didn't go on runs just for the purpose of unlocking stuff, I just happened to unlock stuff while playing, naturally.
trim ingot
I mean grinding as you naturally improve and practice is fine
native ether
And that should stick around definitely because it isn't a grind if you naturally unlock everything just by playing the game.
proud storm
escaping to the surface but only to pick flowers to craft thanatos' big bad scythe of ultimate doom
trim ingot
But purposefully making a build for grinding is not fun
native ether
LUL
robust walrus
I mean, some people enjoy grinding.
native ether
If you wanted to build to grind you would just turn on the pact and run the easiest heat options
but something I really like about Hades is it doesnt make me grind at all. It gives me the tools to play the game just by, well, playing the game.
faint carbon
if you're doing heated runs though you're far enough in to not need the resources :p
trim ingot
Taking all the powerups that increase darkness gain are not fun and leave you underpowered
robust walrus
Real quick question- the description of the Hermes Plume no longer has a specific time window listed. Did they change the rules on that?
faint carbon
yep
native ether
I like those from Chaos and Poseidon because they help players unlock more mirror upgrades quickly.
faint carbon
it's now on a room by room basis
native ether
The time window is dependent on the room
grand pollen
Based on room, timer is a corcle@in the bottom left
native ether
Tartarus rooms are still about 30 seconds.
wheat elbow
Okay, beat the Hydra
first of all, I am an idiot
Wanted to take Dios keepsake and took Ares instead.
native ether
LUL
wheat elbow
Which is not bad at all because that in turn now gave me doom on the attack
native ether
lol merciful end
trim ingot
Wow proxy what
native ether
how many boons did you run into in Asphodel?
2 from the trial
and I assume 2 more (Artemis and Ares)
grand patrol
proxy zapped you for talking too much too fast 😔
native ether
proxy likes to zappp
wheat elbow
I did not count. Let me thing. Duoboon 2, Artemis once, Ares once. Sadly only one miniboss fight, the ship.
native ether
How many from shops?
wheat elbow
Missed out on the Gorgonhead fight. Shop was empty too if memory serves. I think I only saw the last shop, only pom and heart
wheat elbow
I mean, given how two rooms in Asphodel are mini bosses guaranteed to give god boons, I'd say that was fairly okay.
native ether
i mean it isnt guaranteed you'll run into both of them
wheat elbow
Oh, mea culpa. I also met Hermes first room. Make that five boons.
native ether
Hermes is weird. Kinda hard to count him even though he does give boons
faint carbon
hermes feels powerful though
native ether
You're always guaranteed to get him offered at least twice
faint carbon
just not if he's all you've got
native ether
Hermes is a supporting boon. He doesn't really build your run but he can make it much more powerful.
faint carbon
I had one run where I didn't get offered any boons other than hermes and I had to fight a fury with a completely unupgraded weapon lol
trim ingot
Sometimes the boy gives you three dashes and sometimes +12% special speed
Quit messing with me hermes
Actually hermes boons should be sellable if they're not already
wheat elbow
Oh my god, this is rough.....
native ether
That being said, I think its now very easy to have a run where you only get 1 god boon in Asphodel, which feels... kinda unfair as it can really harm your build. (Where as before just due to the length that just didn't happen)
wheat elbow
Okay, so Elysium gave me the second hammer and another Hermes update, very good so far. First shop gave me a dionysus update of which I received his cast. I have two minibosses in front of me, one offers Zeus, the other Athena,. I can get duo boons of both!
wheat elbow
What god do I rather want to see Duo Boons off? See, those are the decisions that trouble me! Also, yes, I agree there. Also, I had a lot of good DioZeus runs lately.
native ether
Dionysus / Zeus has always been good, people just dont like Dio cast for whatever reason
faint carbon
yeah I can't stand dio cast lol
wheat elbow
AND I GOT MERCILESS END!#
faint carbon
but the duo boon is nice
turbid needle
I like Tipsy Shot sometimes.
turbid needle
I never like it in Elysium because cat chariots always spawn in waves of 30-50, but Scintillating Feast is hilarious.
proud storm
died against hades bc i had to make do with the worst rail build i ever had
faint carbon
main reason I don't like the rail is aiming the special on a controller
wheat elbow
Also, because you asked, I think I am seeing my first blue laundrel room in Elysium just now.
proud storm
-no attack boon
-ares special? i guess???
default cast, poseidon wrath for some reason as well
got him to 2nd half of 2nd phase then he handed me the L
grand pollen
I don’t like Dio cast because it removes the bonus damage from darkness.
median ridge
hmmm with all the natural overpoweredness of shield, i wonder if it would be better to scrap it as an independent weapon entirely and just incorporate a block ability into zag’s basic kit
like bastion does
proud storm
shield block but your guard breaks if it absorbs too much damage or if it absorbs damage too fast
wheat elbow
Defeated Asterius and Theseus. Was done in amatter of seconds, but I feel like the run ain't strong enough for Hades yet. Have 6 out of my 8 fated authorities left because I set a "no more than one per biome limit" on myself.
grand pollen
I love the way shield dash used to play before the aoe nerf, and I still like explosion shield even if it’s not as strong
I had a thirty second Thesus kill yesterday that still couldn’t kill Hades post buff =\
wheat elbow
The explosion shield is now better because it prioritizes and optimizes single targets better now
grand pollen
I find it really good to get the 8 target hammer for it now, it doesn’t bounce more if there aren’t targets and seems to speed it up since it’s trying to hit more in the same amount of time. Could just be me being crazy though
native ether
shield is likely to remain the top tier weapon its been for a while now because it outputs nearly as much melee damage as the sword can, and it can block
that's just... kinda how it is... It can offer you a lot of utility and it doesn't sacrifice on any damage remotely for that utility.
The shield got a small buff in the first big bad update patch where it returned immediately if it didnt have a nearby enemy to bounce to. So yeah that multi bounce became way better
grand pollen
I wish it was based more on what you were using with it. Like I would love if they changed the dash attack hammer to be the old big AoE one again, but it removed the bull rush, or something like that
Like force it to pick style, and then it can stay OP on each style, but isn’t op because they’re mutually exclusive.
Where as other weapons are weaker individually but can mix and match better
turbid needle
Still holding out for autofire on Rapid Shot and Flurry Blade.
wheat elbow
Okay, finished up with Styx, ready to face hades. Styx hasn't been as much of an improvement as I hoped it would be. Third hammer was pretty pointless as expected and I did not get a lot of things that made what I have much better. Damage was good enough for the beefboy duo, but I am not sure if it will be enough for Hades.
Zeus Wrath is gonna be the star of the show, that is certain.
weary wigeon
3rd hammer isn't that valuable on most weapons. By the second hammer in Elysium, you have your weapon/boon build
I've had some nice benefits from it with the bow and spear
faint carbon
I don't even think there is 3 special boons for the shield
the one with extended flight / can attack during it feels more like an attack hammer
hard holly
Ironically Id say Spear and Bow are the weapons where the third hammer is kinda the worst
weary wigeon
You think so?
hard holly
Yeah
native ether
as a comparison to DeGrand's run, here's a run I just started (0 heat ofc) showing the potential variance in how stacked you can get.
Things to note: I received additional boon, but purged it because I don't want to fill my special slot with Dionysus.
https://imgur.com/a/OfyrO65
proud storm
im sure you can get all of those three at once yes
hard holly
Because both weapons tend to rely on just one attack
wheat elbow
@native ether Well, this ended up being surprisingly easy. https://imgur.com/Paq4U76
hard holly
And with both you are forced to get one upgrade that doesnt fit that attack
weary wigeon
Fair point
hard holly
Like, with bow you have to get a special upgrade which if youve got a good attack setup
You only really use for clearing projectiles
Spear same thing, spin only has 2 things it cares about as does special
Shield has the best potential
wheat elbow
Also, 5 boons against my 6 I believe? That seems pretty even if you ask me.
hard holly
As you can get Sudden Rush, Minotaur Rush and the dash attack upgrade whose name I forgot
wheat elbow
DashinG Wallop
hard holly
Yeah that one
turbid needle
Nah, bow can be Power Shot, Explosive Shot, Twin/Triple Shot.
hard holly
I dont think Explosive and Twin/Triple stack
wheat elbow
Explosive and tripple does.
turbid needle
They do.
wheat elbow
Explosive and twin too
turbid needle
As with Twin Shot.
native ether
Hermes was offered in the shop. So was Athena dash. So out of rooms that offered boons, only 4 came from rooms.
turbid needle
I got over Explosive in my last run with it, too.
wheat elbow
And I had a chaos boon that would have been a blue laundrel otherwise
so I was only one chaos room ahead of you
native ether
Without the coin purse I wouldn't have been able to buyout the shops, I just took it cause I need to level it up.
hard holly
Shield has the downside that you can be forced to select one of 3 special upgrades and honestly, explosive return is the best one and Im still not big on it
native ether
I wasn't offered any chaos rooms unfortunately.
wheat elbow
Get that coinpurse maxed out. It is the best keepsake in the game atm
hard holly
Rail likes having both attack and special upgraded, so 3 hammers is nice
native ether
Rail player here, get the third hammer
means you'll get an Attack modifier, a bullet modifier, and triple bomb
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, I agree. 3 hammers mean that you can end up tripple bomb and the buff bomb super easy
native ether
My most recommend rail strat is Flurry Fire Triple Bomb Explosire Fire
its ridiculously effective
wheat elbow
Yeah, but explosive fire is useless against bosses.
wheat elbow
The AOE ain't what makes explosive fire good. Its the fact that it flinches enemies
turbid needle
I'm aware.
wheat elbow
Which is amazing for roomclear
turbid needle
But AoE on top of that is very powerful.
wheat elbow
It's overrated.
turbid needle
If you just had flinch, you'd notice a very big difference.
The AoE is what lets you choke crowds with the flinch.
wheat elbow
If I had "just" flinch on my rail attacks, I'd be over the moon.
turbid needle
Well, yeah.
wheat elbow
The rail'd be the best weapon in the game then.
native ether
imo rail's dash attack should be a flurry of bullets/mini rockets that flinch enemies
wheat elbow
Actually, I like the shotgun upgrade the mnost, mostly because it thins out the hammer pool a bit. Makes it more likely to get both bombs.
native ether
instead of just "fire one round of shots extra"
wheat elbow
That would be cool! Put that into feedback.
Also, I would like the R button to see more use ingame. Right now, only the Rail uses it.
native ether
Shotgun Heavy Slug Flurry Fire and Infinity Chamber effectively all reduce the pool like that because they're all mutually exclusive
You can only get one of them
turbid needle
I rebound reload to a mouse thumb button.
wheat elbow
Spear could use R to recall the shield on demand. That could be cool too. Would make the special better.
weary wigeon
I had a really fun sword/ares build taking the quick attack buff
And then the dash attack
wheat elbow
@native ether Good to know, I actually did not have that memorized. That aside, finish your run, I wanna see what you end up with.
Oh, and only 3 Fated Authoritys. I only used 3 in total, so the same goes for you. You are a man of honor, I trust you on that.
native ether
Sounds good
I usually only save my fated authorities for mini boss rooms tbh cause they're guaranteed boon rerolls
placid silo
So I'll say it again
How interesting (and deadly) would it be to have a sort of a bonus boss room, where you fight all three Furies at once?
weary wigeon
Oof
wheat elbow
Depends on where you put that room.
In Tartarus? Deadly, but possible.
In Styx? A laughing matter.
weary wigeon
I stay nearly dying when I fight them (except Meg) because I don't take them seriously
hard holly
Isnt Rails dash attack just an attack speed boost for a bit?
Also, Id argue the dullest dash attack is still spears
Its just an attack
With the same speed, same delay, same everything
weary wigeon
Dash arrow feels weird to me
I only started using it on some runs recently
Because of my build
native ether
Asphodel didnt go exactly as I hoped, I wish boons I purge would never be offered to me again, as Dio keeps giving me special mods I dont want lol
https://imgur.com/a/5mo1oNF
Did nail exclusive access
which is super helpful
hard holly
Bow has by far the best dash attack
weary wigeon
It is weird that purged boons come back into the rotation
hard holly
To the point where they buffed Bow elsewhere to encourage not dash attacking sometimes
native ether
Rail dash attack is literally just "you fire an extra bullet" @hard holly thats all it does
super helpful on Spread Fire, and thats it
weary wigeon
I find it slows my momentum because I go into the charge animation
hard holly
I vaguely recall making feedback about that actually
turbid needle
Rail's dash attack isn't that it fires an additional shot, it's that it has an extremely low cooldown time for the next shot.
My mouse and keyboard are kinda old and so I think I've been double-firing a lot, but I tested this and it's just a reduced cooldown. You can double check this with Hunter Dash.
weary wigeon
How many of y'all use mouse and keyboard?
turbid needle
"There are dozens of us!"
Will Hunting Blades spawn with Pressure Points, or do I have to take Artemis' Aid?
wheat elbow
I do.
turbid needle
Incidentally, getting custom names for each Call again would be awesome.
weary wigeon
Yeah, I miss those
wheat elbow
Aphrodite = Love hurts
turbid needle
Aphrodite says "Sing it, Zag!" when you use her Greater Call, he busts out a few lines of the song.
wheat elbow
Because I played Smite, in my head, I always hear someone yell "Let the heavens RAAAVE!" when he uses his wrath effect.
I also start to curl together weep.
weary wigeon
As you should
pastel jolt
yeah, i'll admit, the old names were nice flavour
"barbs of the master huntress" is a bit more interesting than "artemis' aid"
turbid needle
Greater Recall with Blade Rifts is nutty.
I don't even need Hunting Blades (though I'd totally take them).
turbid needle
Exit Wounds.
faint carbon
whats greater recall again?
weary wigeon
Until MR. BIG BAD decided to start dash swinging at me
turbid needle
Bloodstones automatically return to Zag when they hit the ground.
faint carbon
oh nice
weary wigeon
I got Exit Wounds, the increased release bloodstone drop speed and +3 bloodstones
faint carbon
not come across that yet
turbid needle
I kinda wish they hadn't made it the same patch they made Lightning Rod, because Greater Recall makes it useless and I find always having Casts on hand to be way stronger than "I hope I can kite enemies around these."
weary wigeon
So every 5 seconds enemies would just take a buttload of damage after unloading casts at them
turbid needle
You should see Exit Wounds on a full Artemis build. You crit people on accident for 3k+.
weary wigeon
💦
wheat elbow
Yeah I haven't seen a crit that high yet
turbid needle
I can't believe Twitch didn't save my video.
wheat elbow
I have seen a single exit wounds hit for 1350 then.
With new boons, could actually end up fishing for more.
turbid needle
14k damage crit. Outdid Thanatos when he was hitting a Weak enemy with Sweet Surrender active.
wheat elbow
14k damage crit was with Aphro I believe you said?
turbid needle
Yeah, Greater Call critical hit.
With Heart Rend, Sweet Surrender, and Privileged Status.
weary wigeon
Running into Than early is still pretty frustrating. He tends to spawn with armor enemies and his ability to one shot them can be aggravating with a debuff build
Definitely not as bad as he used to be
turbid needle
Than breaking armor gate while we can't is actually really aggravating.
weary wigeon
I also had him gain kills on the warrior enemies in Elysium by popping them into their sprite forms
Wasn't watching closely but I don't think Zag gets a kill for dropping them out of their bodies
I gotta test it again and hope Than pops up
turbid needle
You do.
weary wigeon
Oh really? Didn't seem that way
turbid needle
He popped up in Asphodel this run, but if he appears in Elysium I'll keep an eye out.
wheat elbow
Thanatos for me is in that weird place where winning against him is mostly doable
but meeting him is still a letdown and a hassle.
weary wigeon
Thank you! I tend to just go on my runs without thinking through builds or scenarios. When odd things pop up, I just make a mental note and keep going.
wheat elbow
I envy you. I lost the ability to play games with that attitude a long time ago.
weary wigeon
Don't get me wrong; I don't think that way with fighting games
wheat elbow
How do you know which is which?
turbid needle
Burn it. Burn it all down.
wheat elbow
Ah
native ether
took the soul catcher and lost a death defiance to it
wheat elbow
I thought that if both doors have skulls, they are the same miniboss, but with different rewards.
Also, my Elysium had at least three boons and a hammer.
Had to fight both minibosses for that of course
native ether
I got the hammer, that was it, the hermes boon was locked in a heat gate
Soul Catcher took one of my death defiances because my build isnt complete rolling into Elysium
dont have special or cast and on rail that is not good lol
weary wigeon
Oof
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, good mentioning.
weary wigeon
That's rough
wheat elbow
Heat gates, actually an advantage heated players have over non.heaters.
You get gold laundrels a lot where others are stuck with blues
native ether
This is kind of the point i was making. RNG plays a huge role into whether or not a run is actually doable
I'll beat theseus this run, think he'll likely chew up one of my defiances though
weary wigeon
I always end up losing one to Theseus/Asterius
native ether
the advantage is I have a lot of gold so maybe ill end up getting rewarded in Styx
weary wigeon
I end up making the same silly mistake of staying too close to Asterius when he lands from a leaping attack
and he does an untelegraphed double swing
Which I eat, get frustrated by and get tagged again
turbid needle
Posted a video in #self-promotion that hopefully will help anyone having trouble with Asterius' charge.
weary wigeon
Oh dope, thanks
native ether
yep called it to the letter, lost 1 defiance right at the end of the fight
brisk island
lmao. I'm just defeated Lord Hades less than 1 min. Sword (Blade): Ares Attack + Athena Dash + Duo Ares x Athena still imbalanced even with duo nerf.... l not used any Heat - tried get Athena legendary but that boon extremely rare 
weary wigeon
Once I realized I could stand on a pillar and dash through it, the charge became less of an issue
It's always silly things that take health from me
Asterius can, for example, get three hits at about 24 damage each because his jump animation has a hitbox
turbid needle
Five Burst Fire Greater Recall Hunting Blades. This won't end well for the Heroes.
wheat elbow
@native ether I mean, you were using the rail, so you had that as a small handicap going for you.
I took the shield because it had dark thirst.
native ether
i dont use the shield because i find it makes the game too easy in a way that I dont find enjoyable.
I'm good enough at that fight I could have done it without losing a death defiance. I've basically nailed it before.
wheat elbow
I would have disagreed with you there, but right now, the shield is much less fun than previous.
Not because it makes the game easier though.
Like, in that last run I shared with you, I stood there
punched a wavemaker in the face repeadedly, him with his back to an invisible wall
Nothing. He was mildly budging, but I could not knock him into it. I simply couldn't, the game would not allow it. No matter how often my shield found it's way into the wavemakers teeth. And it broke my heart.
light nova
How to win with bow and 60 heat
native ether
well cant finish the run now, the game crashed
light nova
I don't know what to take
native ether
but in order to merely complete the build I had to spend a fourth fated authority. Otherwise the run would have been a failure at that end
native ether
Yes it gave me exactly what I needed to finish it lol
It finally gave me tipsy shot
wheat elbow
Well ain't you lucky.
I sometimes spend all my fated authorities without getting what I want.
native ether
I had the Zeus boon in Styx to go for Scintillating, and the Poseidon boon to go for Sea Storm
light nova
@wheat elbow i didn't ask that. I asked something else as you can see 😄
turbid needle
I don't think Hades is beatable right now with anything less than an ideal build.
wheat elbow
I saw. I answered. Trust me, my answers saves you a lot of trouble. If that ain't good enough for you, I will tell you the next best thing
turbid needle
And I don't know of one that would make the bow work with 60 Heat.
wheat elbow
Aphro Artemis crit build.
native ether
Its very unlikely you'll be able to do it atm because even the really good players who have done 120 heat previously are having difficulty with Hades at 0 Heat atm lol
faint carbon
I went for stifling, convenience fee, extra mobs, death insurance on my 70 heat clear
light nova
I did it with shield, rail and spear so....
faint carbon
But I used shield lol
light nova
@native ether that's i am
wheat elbow
Why 70 over 75, Nish?
faint carbon
Was the easiest 'pretty high heat' combo I could work with
native ether
Hades atm isnt beatable with anything less than an ideal build. What Schpoonman said to the letter. And I don't believe in a high heat build you are going to score that ideal build. Convenience Fee and high amounts of damage which force you to heal up and make other choices will make the game hard enough to prevent it.
wheat elbow
Wouldn't 75 be easier if only by virtue of giving you challenge rooms in Elysium?
I mean, he asked for 60, which ain't the world.
faint carbon
That's true, but I didn't see any on that clear anyway
native ether
I find the challenge rooms in Elysium personally to never be worth it lol. They always interrupt my flow or stop me from taking something else. Elysium is also short enough now that I don't know if they're necessarily worth planning around.
wheat elbow
I mean, I am a simple man.
faint carbon
My next attempts will probably be 120 though just for practice in the earlier biomes
weary wigeon
Hades stays giving me the backhand
wheat elbow
I see a challenge room in front of blue laundrels, I take it.
I get a good reward and more room options afterwards.
native ether
My challenge rooms always appear as replacements for things I actually need lol
I didnt mind them when Elysium was longer. Now I'm much more reserved. Tartarus they're a hands down always take though
wheat elbow
As an interesting train of thought:
With a rebalanced and purposely well designed pact of punishment, I'd like to believe that 75 heat is where most people playing the game should end up finding themselves at.
It'd be the difficulty that allows you to use everything the game has in store for you to the fullest.
native ether
but I think the run I was having kind of honestly illustrates the issue I was trying to point out. My build shouldn't be only finally coming together in Styx lol. That feels really bad as a player. I had to chew through 2 death defiances just to finish my build, and I was forced to take Dog Collar because I wasn't offered enough Max HP by Styx.
wheat elbow
With 75 heat, you have every option the game offers at your disposal
native ether
That run was in a really bad position even though I was poised with Exclusive Access and likely 2 additional duo boons
faint carbon
Except the option to decloak the third Skelly lol
wheat elbow
That is something you only need to do once.
weary wigeon
@native ether What's a comfortable level of HP in your mind?
native ether
Going into Styx? Over 200 tbh. I'd like to peak at 275/300 getting to Hades
weary wigeon
Huh
native ether
Hades does 160 damage currently with his swing attack
wheat elbow
There is no definitive answer to that though.
It depends on your run and your confidence.
weary wigeon
Yeah, it keeps bodying me when I fight him
native ether
That'll be on player preference but I definitely don't recommend going into Styx with less than 200 hp tbh
wheat elbow
UIsually, I'd agree with pear here, 250 to 300 is where I would WANt to be
native ether
you're asking for a nightmare of a time considering Styx became much more difficult lol
wheat elbow
but you also have to factor in your number of DDs and the amount of damage/utility you have
@real shoal Did you record it?!
real shoal
nop
weary wigeon
I grab HP when other options aren't attractive but I haven't been thinking about grabbing HP to help me get through areas
wheat elbow
What a shame.
native ether
Yeah and in that run it was also "2 Death Defiances down, no Cast ability"
weary wigeon
I think too much like a glass cannon
wheat elbow
In the Big Bad Update, HP became my least taken upgrade.
native ether
Considering everything in Styx hurts so much HP is nothing to turn away from lol.
wheat elbow
I somehow adopted a "if it ain't giving me an immediate DPS boost I ain't wanting it."
ember lotus
I don't take poms anymore
native ether
I avoid poms if I have the option to because they don't get me another boon
wheat elbow
And, frankly enough, Centaur Hearts are the only gold laundrel rewards guaranteed to not be damage increases.
ember lotus
I need death defiance and centaur hearts make DD better
native ether
Poms are by far the worst upgrade you can get.
weary wigeon
My opinion on Poms has changed dramatically since I started playing
ember lotus
the game has changed
wheat elbow
I mean, not generally. There are some boons where one or two poms can be amazing for.
weary wigeon
For sure
wheat elbow
Dionysus Boons for example usually scale well with one or two of them.
weary wigeon
Remember when you couldn't break the Hydra's shots? Good times.
ember lotus
back when dash attack guaranteed a crit, you could cost on that alone
native ether
Poms are pretty good on a very few specific things. Dio boons, Pressure Points, Slicing Shot
wheat elbow
All casts and wrath effects gain substancial increases
ember lotus
To a point
native ether
At level 1 only tbh.
wheat elbow
You lost me at slicing shot.
native ether
Its a minimal effect past that
Every pom you take on slicing shot does give you 1 more damage on it lol.
wheat elbow
But yeah, then you see people like Haelian speedrun the game with their specials having 7 poms invested to them.
ember lotus
because it's better than buffing anything else
native ether
You should only be running slicing shot though if it is your absolute intent to steamroll with Hunting Blades / Ares Legendary
otherwise there are so many better cast options lol
wheat elbow
Yes, but then you look at me who does not get 7 boons over 4 runs, most of the time
ember lotus
They''re building it the way we used to build artemis crit builds with auto-crit dash attack
If its not the dash attack or clean kill why bother?
native ether
but no HP is a great upgrade to take considering everything in Styx does over 25 damage. (or can do that amount of damage very very fast)
also, im pretty sure Snakestone laser damage stacks
as in if you get yourself stuck in between all the lasers
you are super duper mega dead
wheat elbow
I mean, I really take the HP topic rather laid back. In general, for the first three floors, you won't need the HP.
turbid needle
Do you people not take Spearpoint by default?
river pier
Idk, I get like perfect run and all sucks on hades lol
wheat elbow
And sometime,s the game will just force HP on you.
river pier
Honestly want uninstall
wheat elbow
@turbid needle Haven't taken spearpoints in weeks.
native ether
I'll take Spearpoint if I have enough HP to to survive Hades. But Bracer is honestly a strong option as well.
Spearpoint is essentially the "[insert nice phrase here]" to Snakestones though
river pier
Spearpoint is useless on hades, he attacks too seldom to block damage
native ether
which is honestly the only reason id be running it cause boi those things hurt
Spearpoint is good against the laser and urn attacks
wheat elbow
Did the feedback channel lose its X's?
native ether
It did
turbid needle
^
native ether
X's were removed to streamline their reading process. In all honesty, X's were also used mainly to "mega disagree" with people tbh. Rarely was it actually used for its intended purpose.
My guess is the devs and mods decided they can do the job of the X on their own without needing the extra input, which i think is totally fair
Hard agree on poison and torment ugh it hurts
it hurts so much
wheat elbow
I don't know if it's true, I am just taking some of the people in heres word for it.
native ether
It does lmao
tested it myself
I got to Styx with 500% torment on and oh boy it hurts really really bad
wheat elbow
I like how the anti dot is basically Mandragora bathing water.
I mean, just imagine how much of an impact that would make on a run. Gods having one exclusive boon they give you only if they considered you worthy after supporting Theseus and the Minotaur.
I think that kind of thing happening would add a certain level of spice to a run while also giving each run a bit more unique identity and replayability.
quasi knoll
artemis wrath seems kinda eh now
kind fiber
I think I figured out poseidon now
Really bad against bosses unless you invest palms into upgrading your primary move
the % damage increase not being the important number in the end, but rather how it effects your knockback
light nova
Made it
Crit for 2k can kill anyone
Also it somehow proves that cast without full Artemis buffes is useless.
Uses only as debuff
river pier
light nova
Cool thing actually, i have got crits for 400-800 damage and final shot was for 2k in his back
Like in movie
vagrant hearth
man, I just suck when I don't have a ranged attack other than my cast. I think this is the first time I've reached Meg with the sword (I lost)
light nova
how many heat do you have
vagrant hearth
i don't think i've unlocked that yet?
vagrant hearth
i've got 20 runs and i don't know where/how to set heat or if dash and dodge are two different things ._. and have only hit asphodel once
don't think i've ever seen a duo boon either
hushed ledge
Don't feel bad, the game isn't easy
grand pollen
^^ it took me 20 tries to beat Meg the first time, recently I speed ran all current content pre buff in 16 minutes. Just takes determination and practice, you’ll get there
graceful jackal
Is there anything more satisfying than getting a Poseidon boon that knocks enemies away, then just yeeting them across the room?
grand pollen
The Zeus Poseidon duo boon that electrocuted them afterward.
graceful jackal
True true
terse girder
Well, I just got the duo Poseidon/Dio boon halfway through tartarus
I'm liking my chances, lads
wooden spade
Poseidon double knock back is great fun
vagrant hearth
I always take tempest dash when it's offered to me
I don't know if that's optimal but I love just crashing through everything in my path while i'm spamming dash anyway
and it seems to usually offer more damage than the other dash boons
dense granite
hello everyone
upbeat junco
Idk if its just me but since the recent patch it feels like the RNG for boons feels a bit off. I've been getting terrible luck with the boons such as my recent Heart Rend bow run where I get hunter dash and scatter shot but literally can't get an Artemis attack boon even in Styx. Does the RNG for boons feel off for any of you?
I've had multiple runs get to Styx without getting an attack boon so I can't even start the build I was trying.
My run that I somehow managed to beat just now had terrible luck as well and I was forced to get Dio attack on bow in Styx just before I fight Hades
Also I saw something in the feedback, what are these laurel rooms?
rugged apex
the color of the laurel around a room reward indicates what type it is - see pins
upbeat junco
ah ok thanks
astral locust
guys
how im supposed to avoid those green jars of hades
that attack just destroys me every time
vagrant hearth
Ooh, I never got offered Dying Lament before. Now this is a fun boon, especially when there's lots of weak enemies like numbskulls
native ether
Its not just you @upbeat junco I've definitely noticed this.
I've especially noticed it with boons I've purged. I think I've had like 5 runs where I've purged boons and gods continued offering them to me multiple times.
rugged horizon
how the hell are people beating hades
i went in with 5 live 420hp adamantine rail aoe+infinite ammo, 6 dashes, ares compounding atk damage and still lost
+athena invulnerability
upbeat junco
@rugged horizon don't feel bad Hades is incredibly overtuned at the moment
he deals way too much damage for how fast he is, and the enemies in Styx are probably a bit to strong as well
upbeat junco
I think his HP is fine just the fact that he can deal like 40 + 120 damage in two attacks if he blood shards you and spin attacks you after
rugged horizon
the homing things+ 7 aoe blasts are what get me
plus those hands on wave 2
well all im saying is 1 has to go down
either hp or damage
upbeat junco
definitely damage
rugged horizon
the combination of the 2 makes him insane
upbeat junco
before this patch I think he was in a good spot
quartz cliff
wait, he didn't always deal 80 damage in one swing?
upbeat junco
I don't believe so, I can't remember the damage values pre patch but in the patch notes it says some of his attacks have had their damage increased.
turbid needle
Spin attack used to be 60 and 120.
placid plinth
Before patch his swing was 60 damage
placid plinth
I think so. But waves deal 35 now
turbid needle
I thought I ate one for 50 earlier and it was the first I took that fight.
placid plinth
Oh, then not sure
turbid needle
Yeah, waves are Just a little extra annoying now.
quartz cliff
it definitely does 50
placid plinth
I remember 50, but I don't remember if it's on BB or not
turbid needle
They used to be 25 normally.
placid plinth
Ye
turbid needle
Honestly, for the double damage they need to be doing around 10.
placid plinth
Especially when he start launching 3-4 skulls a time
turbid needle
But wow, I had no idea they doubled their damage.
placid plinth
Though, I only remember him throwing 3-4 skulls when I was playing with deflect and slowed projectiles, with low DPS and surviving only due to this combo. Is it based on how long battle lasts? Or is it HP-based and I just don't remember it in normal chaos?
turbid needle
I've seen him do that before, fire off a whole bunch quickly.
upbeat junco
Yea I've had him just throw one in front then another behind him then another in front when I've already been hit by one in a previous attack
turbid needle
I thought that was just a variation of his regular combat pattern (which I would be okay with if they didn't explode with a field-clearing wave).
Then again, I have no idea if I'm just being soft and this is how hard the final boss for this game should be, or it really is too hard right now.
upbeat junco
Also in his arena there is a pillar that you can use to block the his lasers, but in my recent run it seems that this pillar is really small
placid plinth
They deal a lot of damage when they hit, they double all damage, and when they miss you only have five seconds to destroy it until it launches a ring that is hard to avoid when it's four of them
turbid needle
I need to figure that out, I think you can just move between all of them.
placid plinth
I think you can move between lasers, but I just hide behind the pillar
upbeat junco
You can but in his second phase the gaps are pretty much unavoidable unless your at long range
the gaps are too small*
turbid needle
I need to try getting inside the ring with Hades. Does he deal contact damage? I know people have cheesed it with War God's Thirst.
upbeat junco
I tried that I got shredded, although I think there was a glitch or something that someone mentioned that when they got out of Ares call they were standing directly on him during the laser and he wasn't hit
turbid needle
That happened to me, too, I was curious whether it worked without it.
Doesn't work, then?
upbeat junco
Even if it does work its probably not a good idea to try unless you have an invulnerability call to get you there
Yea pre patch I beat Hades my first time and 4 times in a row after that, after the patch I beat him once then went on a 6-7 loss streak before finally getting a win before just barely
placid plinth
I had 6-streak pre-patch, but after patch I only won once on low-DPS tanky deflect build with slowed projectiles
upbeat junco
Yea I somehow won on an attempted Heart Rend Bow build (I only got hunter dash and scatter shot) that I was forced to get Dio attack right before Hades
native ether
Heart Rend is pretty good ngl
limber copper
Beating Hades is as easy as having a 3 * broken spearpoint and 3 or more death defiance. Broken spearpoint is just insanely necessary now lmao. If you mess up, instead of taking 180 damage, you take 30 or 50 damage.
turbid needle
Until he turns left and you eat a 160 spear. 
upbeat junco
I think yesterday I mentioned in this room that Gods are grouped together so that when you reroll a god it will reroll into another god from the same group, such as Artemis into Aphrodite or Ares, and Athena into Dio or Poseidon or Zeus. But im in a run now and that appears to have changed, i just rerolled Athena into Artemis. And it's a bit weird that they changed it now when it's been like this for a very long time
turbid needle
I'd much prefer a more random run, or weighted towards synergies with specific boons you already have.
Like, if you have Blade Rift, the game will very slightly weigh you towards Artemis.
limber copper
I have his patterns down vaguely, so I only have problems sometimes dodging his "cast", and usually go through first phase without death defiance.
Then I burn through the rest on minefields lol
upbeat junco
I dont mind RNG, but it was nice to be able to generally know what your going to reroll into. There is still the randomness in that you might find a boon from a different group.
turbid needle
I ran into a room where I rerolled Zeus and it got stuck on Poseidon and Dionysus, neither of whom had synergy with my current boons.
Burned all 7 and it just jumped between the two.
I was told that was on purpose, to give you a chance to know what you're rerolling into, but it just handicapped the run.
upbeat junco
Thats how it worked. I guessed it assumed that since you rolled Zeus you didn't want it so it didn't roll back to zeus
turbid needle
That's fine.
Ignoring that the game will reroll back to other boons or items all the time.
(If you're telling me you've never burned 3 FAs on a door because it gave you two coins you haven't got many FAs yet)
But the game locked me into Poseidon and Dio and it was infuriating.
limber copper
If you get irrelevant god, pray for duo
turbid needle
Uh, what?
upbeat junco
So yea in this run I'm doing now it's literally just doing the same thing it has for the past 3 times. I start Artemis trinket, it gives me hunter dash, I get another artemis boon it gives me crit on any damage, and I get a hammer with either twin shot or perfect shot. Now im going into asphodel with no attack boon
Im choosing Aphro trinket and ill probably get Scatter shot when I find her
called it
upbeat junco
yea it is good, and it works really well with heart rend build. But if im taking it i'd actually like to get artemis attack and heart rend
turbid needle
What's your weapon?
upbeat junco
bow
literally just got third artemis boon and it offers a swap for artemis cast, extra casts and foes dropping the cast faster
instead of attack boon
wheat elbow
I mean, we are in the happy situation that atm, no god is irrelevant.
Poseidon maybe being the exception, but even he is very usable.
turbid needle
Poseidon is only usable if he is your only direct damage option.
Like, good luck with Tempest anything if you've got Blade Rifts.
Sea Storm is excellent
Get rupture and jolt
You're not wrong.
Instantaneously applies two effects for extra damage
And a good shot at getting double strike
Or the second wave
wheat elbow
Does it even properly work now?
turbid needle
I don't think SS does on Second Wave.
wheat elbow
Because last time I tried, sea storm would still not proc on all bosses and not on some enemies.
Like, soul catchers, they don't care.
upbeat junco
ok i have no reached Styx without getting Artemis attack in 4 artemis boons
So ill have to choose between Athena, Aphro or Dio attack if one of them shows up
grand pollen
Well, I finally got I think 3 wins vs the new tuned Hades while streaming since the patch. Honestly, I still think he's overtuned, but the solution I've found, which feels really dumb, is to just stack way more health than normal. Before I would go in around 150-200, my last run I went in with 450.
Because then his mechanics no longer oneshot you, so you can take a few to the face if you get unlucky, and your Death Defiances will actually matter, because instead of putting you back in oneshot range, it puts you in 2-3 shot range.
wheat elbow
I mean, you can.
turbid needle
One.
wheat elbow
She has this rose, a keepsake of hers for showing her a good time and taking her to a bar.
grand pollen
lol
wheat elbow
In almost every situation, one Aphro Boon is all it takes.
grand pollen
Weak helps, I try to toss it in somewhere, but if I got it over something I needed more, like last run I had Zeus/Poseidon duo + Zeus Legendary, the only Aphro boon I got that applied it was on Attack, which was where my knockback was on, so I couldn't really drop it.
wheat elbow
Makes sense.
wheat elbow
I mean, it is funny, just considering how much Aphrodite does for you.
Increases your damage by giviung you a strong attack. Increases all of your damage by giving you 1/2 status effects. Effectively DOUBLING your HP by halving all damage enemies deal.
Nobody can compare.
grand pollen
She also is tied for the best flat damage scaling with Athena
wheat elbow
And all that in just one boon.
upbeat junco
Yea i think the game is broken at the moment. I've had exactly the same boons and hammers for the past 3-4 runs. Only difference is when I got them.
Im probs gonna have a break until next patch. Hopefully it comes soon because I've been really enjoying this update
vagrant hearth
Did you send a bug report? Anecdata, but that certainly hasn't been happening in my game
(That does remind me though, the boon rooms I get are a pretty even split between the rest of the olympians but I almost never see Ares or Artemis)
or Hermes, he's only showed up once
wheat elbow
I had something similiar happen to me on thursday
but when it happened, my game crashed in the final fight
So basically, I was forced to play through the same seed multiple times and hope the last fight would no crash on me.
Which was sheer masochism because it was a poseidon heavy seed.
turbid needle
Neat quirk of interaction with very high hits-per-second builds concerning Styx enemies: Most of them attack very very rapidly so holding down Lightning Strike Flurry Fire with Epic Jolted melts them.
wheat elbow
Sounds like a neat way to play the game.
turbid needle
I've played better.
wheat elbow
Sounds like a neat way to play the game with the spear.
native ether
yeah wow Hades is overtuned
I went in with what I would call a perfect build
got halfway thru phase 2 and just got hit for like 3 instances of 50 damage at the same time
atm im gonna call how difficult that fight is flat out absurd (and I dont mean that in a mean way, it just really is lmao)
astral locust
i just won thanks to hermes dodge and some defensive stuff from athena
native ether
I had +3 dash and Athena Wrath and that still wasnt enough
astral locust
I mean resistance to foes and boosted death defiance
i also had athena wrath and didnt help
native ether
I don't think the current difficulty of the final boss is honestly at all fair especially since we don't get any more boons than we used to get before Theseus.
However I will say this: Heavy Slug is incredibly underrated
It was carrying me right up until the final boss
turbid needle
All of the upgrades that give you 80 base damage are awesome.
native ether
It has the advantage of the dash attack basically being usable while dashing, which gives you incredible mobility
But yeah Hades is definitely overtuned
boreal musk
hey i have maxed out my dash skill, allowing me three dashes before the pause, but after updating i can only dash twice, is that intentional? skill is still max and greyed out
turbid needle
Yeah, they turned down the Mirror from 2 extra dashes to one a few months back.
boreal musk
i see, thanks
wheat elbow
AND HE'S DONE IT!
Got the Ares/Zeus duo boon together with every revenge counter boon in the game.
And Athena/Ares Duo Boon to proc off it as well. Plottwist: Not enough damage to beat Hades without doing a thing.,
turbid needle
I think 3 seconds might be a nice balance for Vengeful Mood.
wheat elbow
@tawdry jackal
turbid needle
2 was definitely too short, but 3.5 seems a little long.
wheat elbow
I will upload that one in a few days, I will notify you by then
On another note, I feel like I am actually slowly getting used to Hades new overpowered self.
You really can overcome everything if you really try.
Also, @native ether
Only two fated authorities used in Tartarus, still went out being stacked
native ether
ah yes thats a good setup
really seems to just come down to rng tbh and how many boons you get offered
like i did another run tonight where i was absolutely stacked the entire time
but i had a run before where I was just absolutely starved
wheat elbow
You know what is probably the biggest factor:
Chaos.
I see a lot of people ruining a runs potencial by meeting him because they fail to see how bad he really is.
native ether
i mean i think most people only take a chaos boon if its the early beginning, or they're already considerably ahead, or they're running egg
turbid needle
I've taken Chaos every run for the last 3 or 4 and they've helped almost every time more than they've hurt.
native ether
i dont think consistently picking chaos is ruining runs in all honesty
turbid needle
Don't take Maimed if you're Attack reliant, NEVER take Stabbing.
wheat elbow
That is only because you don't see the other side of things.