More enemies with more HP is very, very tiring.
#h1-builds-and-combat
turbid needle
Almost kept Than away from getting a single kill. 40-1.
trim ingot
if only he had special lines for not getting any kills
(or zag not getting any kills that would be funnier)
turbid needle
I really wanted him to talk mad yang when he had 20-something to my single digits, but he just left.
wheat elbow
That was a great run @covert grove
native ether
Suggestions for the pact of Punishment at 60 heat:
- Don't use Stifling Darkness. You're comfortable with your mirror upgrades, keep em. Its also not really worth using unless you max it.
- Avoid high Whipped Frenzy levels. Enemies moving faster can be very difficult to deal with if you're not accustomed to it.
- Tenebrous Veil can be an easy 15 points of Heat if you're willing to deal with the entirely random run. If you use Veil, I recommend using a weapon that is strong in almost any build (Shield or Sword)
- You can get some good value at turning Grim Inevitability up to say 60%. You still get some healing, and if you're careful, it won't be very difficult.
My personal suggestion for the Pact:
- Max Convenience Fee (10 points)
- Max Additional Enemies (Shared Misery) (20 points)
- 10 Points in Vicious Torment (This is double damage) (10 points)
- Max Death Insurance (10 Points)
For my remaining 10 points, I put into a mix of points into Grim Inevitability and Vicious Torment, in whatever amounts you want.
Addons I don't recommend and reasons why:
- Tenebrous Veil (sort of): Unless you're comfortable with the random run, I don't recommend this.
- Stifling Darkness: Its only really valuable as a sink if you max it out. This can take practice to go back to learning how to play without mirror upgrades and what to pick.
- Pain Tolerance: This makes bosses harder, which are the hardest parts of a run. Unless you want to deal with Theseus having 50% extra HP, I don't recommend it.
- Whipped Frenzy: Faster enemies can be very hard to dodge and deal with, although if you're running the shield, I can see this being much more manageable. This is just the one I personally don't like because I specialize in the Rail, which lacks a stun. (Frenzy I believe also lets enemies recover from stuns faster)
If you want, you can increase the difficulty of the game up to 75 so you have access to Elysian Heat Gates. I personally don't recommend this, as while those gates are nice, there are only 10 or so Elysium rooms, and since gates are kind of rare, the probability you will draw a heat gate is more likely in the first 2 areas (since they are both longer) than the third one. (There are 30 rooms in Tartarus and Asphodel, and 10 rooms in Elysium, counting bosses and minibosses, and stairways, and shops. To my knowledge the chance of getting a heat gate is even per biome and room, thus your chance of getting earlier gates is 3/1 odds) The rewards for heat gates are the same regardless of where they're found, which is also why I don't recommend it.
I also recommend opening every Treasure Trove you find. The increased gold will counteract Convenience Fee and enable you to use the shops again.
@tawdry jackal my personal tips for a 60 heat run
wheat elbow
I would avoid Tenebrous Veil like the pest. If you really want it, don't take more than one stage in it.
The RNG hits you harder than a 50 Torment Enemy.
50 Torment + Aphrodite is a very nice way to get into a run and change the odds in your favor.
You basically get 50 heat at the difficulty of 25 that way.
sacred swallow
i will take 50% frenzy all day long over 50% more enemys, it also gives way more heat for the run
i'm doing 75 runs all day long
wheat elbow
I need to get back in the groove for that too
Okay, so
Anyone of you guys still having their X-Box Game Bars active and open?
tawdry jackal
@native ether @wheat elbow
owwn, thank you guys
been trying really hard and getting nowhere, I wasnt sure the Pain Tolerance affected bosses (was very suspicious of it tho) and so far its been my downfall
thank you for all the tips!
covert grove
@wheat elbow Thank you sir
wheat elbow
You're welcome. You're aaaaall welcome
echo sphinx
Nah, I don't even have enough Heat for to put into the pact
I'll probably go back to 0 for the new update, then slowly work my way up as I get used to the new biome
Also will give me time to earn enough Heat for 120
echo sphinx
Yeah I have 86 total
Before I tried heat runs I used to always trade it for keys/ambrosia/darkness so I don't have much
wheat elbow
Understandably so.
The game throws so much heat your way anyway that it doesn't really matter, all things considered.
I am trading it away left and right and am still getting close to 700 heat.
native ether
Yeah I've been trading it away for darkness to get more stacks of fated authority
rugged apex
i trade heat as often as possible and I'm still gaining heat doing that
so like
yeah
wheat elbow
Because you always get at least 5 heat per full clear.,
wheat elbow
So, today I learned that you can have 2 Yarn of Ariadne at once!
native ether
Do they both get consumed though
turbid needle
Yes. It's a double rarity bonus.
native ether
But like... Does that even work lol
turbid needle
I believe so.
wheat elbow
You can see it in my last video I uploaded.
Both get consumed.
Can't say how it ended up affecting rarity because it was used on an Artemis Boon after the Asterius Solo Fight.
All epic boons, but those have higher rarity anyway.
native ether
Yeah afaik the yarn appears just make the rarity of the boon akin to the rarity from a miniboss
I'm not sure whyd you take 2. Maybe better chance they're epics?
Not real easy to predict though.
wheat elbow
It was the first time I ever had the opportunity to get two of them and I just grasped it.
My initial thought was that it would just use one at a time
But I guess I was wrooooong......yeah......
by the way, the run ended up being ridiculous, didn't it?
Vicious Cycle has to be one of the strongest boons in the game
stable oyster
what do you guys think is the strongest boon in the game?
autumn tapir
a lot of the boons only really shine once they have other boons to help them, at which point they become busted
native ether
Hunting Blades
It's absurd
It's good on its own. No need to get any other boons to improve blade rifts
Takes the biggest issue with one of the highest damaging abilities in the game and flat out removes it.
Very few things in the game offer that much burst damage.
And it's even better when combined with any of the Blade Rift addons
turbid needle
^
wheat elbow
I mean, Hunting Blades demands having two other boons before, so I am not sure if that qualifies as being strong on it's own or strong in combination.
It also depends on how you define "strong". Strong in terms of damage, DPS, Burst or utility?
If'd be burst, all by itself, I'd say Exiting Wounds.
That effect can give you 900 burst every 10 seconds, more in less if you have other boons to go with, it scales well with different things too.
Even then, it very well may be outscaled in Damage by both of Ares' doom effects, which also apply a debuff.
Which in turn may be outuseful'd by Aphrodites boons because they not only give you more damage and a debuff, she also slices enemies damage in half.
There is also the Chaos blessing that increases the amount of money you earn, getting that early can basically carry a run by enabling all the shops or countering Convenience Price.
turbid needle
All of which require more involvement than Hunting Blades. They are by far the safest damage in the game.
wheat elbow
Same for Poseidons Oceans Bounty, which isn't as hard on the money but does accect Centaur hearts.
Talk about Centaur hearts, Premium Vintage can be worth anything from 30 to 150 HP
Which of course is then outdone by Athena enhancing your deatrh defiances for even more effective health.
turbid needle
Does that require other boons to boost Premium Vintage that high?
turbid needle
Which is a viable option with Premium Vintage.
wheat elbow
Which are blue laundrel rewards but can also drop out of infernal troves and Poseidons Sunken Treasure.
Athenas Boon that gives you better death defiances has a pretty good chance to give you even more for less.
I believe the highest rarity you can get increases the usefulness of DDs by 20%.
That means that picking that one up while you have the Mirror given 3 DDs increases your effective health by a 100% of your current HP Bar.
Which for me on average when I am in Elysium tends to be 200.
So death defiance averaging out on a 200 HP increase in one fell swoop sounds pretty strong to me. For less RNG and involvement than Premium Vintage too.
turbid needle
So those Death Defiances are awesome, truly, genuinely, but with Hunting Blades you don't even need them because you're halfway across the stage while they do all the work safely for you.
There's the danger of getting in and out to pick your Bloodstones up, but defensive maneuvering is very strong in this game thanks to Dash's generous i-frames.
wheat elbow
Blade rifts without Engulfing Vortex and Vicious Cycle feel fun and okay at best but aren't all that mindboggling for all the trouble you have to do in order to get it.
If I were to exchange that three boon combo with another, I would just go with "any blade rift" + engulfing vortex + vicious cycle instead.
turbid needle
Okay.
wheat elbow
Vicious Cycle is just way too strong.
turbid needle
Enemies jump out of Blade Rifts all the time.
wheat elbow
You can basically reduce Asterius and Thesseus to spend half of their playtime in their impervious periods with it
In Elysium, no enemy can jump.
turbid needle
You can corner enemies, but a lot of stuff requires a much more agile method of attack.
wheat elbow
Pretty sure the sameis true for Tartarus.
turbid needle
Jump colloquially speaking.
wheat elbow
Ah.
turbid needle
Well, Tartarus is just easy.
wheat elbow
So is Asphodel.
turbid needle
Asphodel actually requires a build that's coming together.
wheat elbow
Enemies not able to jump in Elysium is part of the reason why Engulfing Vortex is so good.
turbid needle
If you're not using Heat, Tartarus can be ran virtually upgradeless.
wheat elbow
That actually aplies some soft CC to enemies by helping you keep them in place.
turbid needle
True.
wheat elbow
Sadly not quite upgrade less.
turbid needle
I know it can't actually be.
wheat elbow
You can't get through Tartarus without at least ahammer boon.
You can beat the game with only 1-3 god boons though.
turbid needle
But in a world where we can turn this stuff on or off you could take only one or two boons (or none) and make it through Tartarus quite well with just the Mirror of Night.
Yeah, I could run the entire game with just Hunting Blades, one of Artemis or Ares and two of the other.
turbid needle
Yeah, Double Nova.
wheat elbow
Dashing Wallop for the shield, double nova for the sword.
Triple Bomb of the rail, also highly potent
turbid needle
That's a maybe.
wheat elbow
I finished the entire game using only the Athena dash as my offensive capability
Had a lot of passive sources of damage in that run though.
Like "Deal Damage up being hit" kinds of passive damage.
I actually have to rewatch that one.
You know what?
I will try to do that again
wind vale
hmm - not sure if this is a bug or a feature or i'm just imagining things
but it seems hunters mark buffs privileged status even when its removed already
i only had hunters mark and weak as status effects for privileged status
and privileged status was often shown while the enemy was weak and had hunters mark but i consumed it already
rugged apex
the hit that causes hunter's mark to do critical damage will still benefit from privileged status, yes. hits after it should not benefit.
wind vale
i mean privileged status is still shown while the enemy is only weak
and hunters mark was removed already since i had crit again but from the original duration it would still have been active
wheat elbow
I recorded a run today that shows that off as well.
Dionysus Nasty Dash only + Pressure Points and Marked
Marked was applied every now and then, but priv status remained active even though marked was gone.
wind vale
it seems even bigger than i thought - so definitely a but
bug*
a removed hunters mark seems to leave a permanent invisible curse on the enemy (until a new mark gets applied)
turbid needle
Nominating Chaos Favor boons for top tier. I picked an Epic Favor up a few times off a Chaos Gate from the very first room and the ensuing runs were ridiculously easy.
wheat elbow
@turbid needle I think I talked with you about doing a run using only dash attacks today, right?
I did a terrible, terrible thing today.
Check #self-promotion if you want to see it.
wheat elbow
@wind vale The last video I uploaded may be interesting for you too, regarding the consumation of Marked. I had a couple situations where Priv Status was still seemingly active even though the enemy in question did not have the marked symbol anymore.
robust garden
do you think skipping artemis legendary for an epic hunter dash is worth it
on bow
unkempt pagoda
robust garden
ok that's what i did
finite grail
@tawdry jackal out of curiosity what do you use in full veil runs
stable oyster
Personally I think that oceans bounty has a slight edge over chaos just because it works in hearts, but both are contenders for best boon, because the usually net you 3-4 over a run
pastel jolt
@night compass i'm not seeing how triple bomb and infinity chamber would interact? triple bomb affects your special; infinity chamber affects your attack....
wheat elbow
He assumes that both the Exagryph Attack and the Special work on an ammonition basis
Thus, infinite ammo should also allow you to spam your special.
finite grail
You already can it’s just a slower fire rate
analog sail
It's not stricly ammo based, it's more tied to how many you have on the field at once
But I think there's a reload animation and that's what's confusing her
tawdry jackal
@finite grail so, one thing I've learned from my experience with Veil runs, is never NO MATTER WHAT
never go meet Chaos, RNG will do its thing and you'll get the dash penalty
other than that, I dont see any use in god specific trinkets, I just use Cerberus Collar, Patroclus Speartip or Lucky Tooth
as for the weapon, I feel comfortable using anything but the Spear
finite grail
yeah, makes sense. God trinkets are super valuable at high darkness but the stat effects are more practical
tawdry jackal
My favorite weapons are Sword and Shield (thanks JoCat)
Bow feels really really slow sometimes, and others is really effortless (I dont like not knowing what to expect from my weapon)
and although I really love Exagryph's Special (speciallh triple), its Attack has garbage damage and reach
native ether
@night compass I'm kinda confused on that bit of feedback because the Rail special is independent of the Attack reload. It just has a "cooldown" animation before it can be used again (which is the same length as the cooldown without triple bomb, just after the third bomb and not the first.)
Rail attack becomes amazing with a modifier, but on its own it's pretty weak.
Flurry Fire and Spread Shot both increase your dps by a huge amount.
wheat elbow
Imagine if the R Button could be used for all weapons in some way shape or form.
tawdry jackal
oh, right
and so far its very common to have a attack type end up without some modifier in it because the boon you got is like revenge damage, extra kill damage or extra ammo
you really will not plan your boons, thats why I dont recomend using god trinkets, but they're cool with Veil disabled
I got all of mine halfway towards 3rd Rank
hard holly
Athena and Artemis on attack as well
Actually, wait
Might be Poseidon now
Im not up to date on my meta
hard holly
Gimme like a couple minutes
errant pine
ok
hard holly
Yeah I forgot about the last round of nerfs
So replace Athena with Poseidon in all previous mentions
hard holly
As for hammers
Since you probably want the safer version of bow
Perfect Shot, Snipers Shot and uh
I guess Double Shot maybe?
You lose some range, but its still a decent amount
hard holly
Thats the hammers you get
During a run
You want to take them every time you see them
errant pine
really?
hard holly
Because theyre generally the biggest upgrades
hard holly
Plus if you skip them you dont get them later
At least, not always
Yeah, hammers are pretty much key on all weapons
errant pine
i will defo follow that advice
hard holly
Sometimes you get a dud, but still
The thing is, theyre bigger upgrades than boons a lot of the time, and boons you can just get again
Hammers, not so much
hard holly
The poms of power? Well, generally yes?
hard holly
Once you either have a lot of boons, or several upgrades on your attack boon
Theyre not as important
And Id take a hammer over a pom
errant pine
i guess i shall aswell
hard holly
But yeah, usually just take em when you get the chance
Boons tend to have diminishing effects to a degree
errant pine
?
hard holly
Its nice if you can get a legendary, but otherwise theyre usually just icing on the cake
hard holly
After you get one for your attack, dash, and maybe cast
errant pine
you can get higher than epic?
hard holly
Yes, in two ways
Heroics, which you can only get when swapping a boon out
And Legendaries, which arent better so much as they are special boons
You can only get legendaries if you have pre-requisite boons
errant pine
what are pre-requisite boons?
hard holly
They always come in the legendary rarity (and no other boon does), and they have generally powerful effects
Differs from god to god
I think the wiki has them listed?
errant pine
i shall check that out
so
if you swap a boon for a boon
it will become heroic
?
errant pine
oof
hard holly
Well, let me actually rephrase that
Sometimes, you get the choice to swap out your attack/dash/cast/special/wrath boon
For one from a different god (i.e. the god youre currently choosing a boon from)
errant pine
yee
hard holly
You see what rarity that new boon would have if you were to pick
And sometimes that new boon is heroic
turbid needle
chaos!
hard holly
They, actually
And well, going for a boon from them can be risky
The downsides can be quite nasty while the upside isnt great
hard holly
Them
hard holly
Ambrosia you mean?
hard holly
Yep, they give you an item
hard holly
Its not one I personally use much, but its good to have options
turbid needle
sometimes you just give the characters ambrosia to appreciate them
turbid needle
they’re my friends! you also unlock new dialogue with them the more ambrosia you give them
red warren
I love chaos, got relationship maxed out with them
errant pine
wait
are the hearts at the top right of the codex the relationship?
are getting bedroom decorations a good idea?
turbid needle
yes and yes
hard holly
Yup
The charge is slightly faster after you dash
It also has a different animation, though Im not sure which was which
One is Zag holding the bow vertically, one is him holding it horizontally
errant pine
dash attack is vertically
and ok thats good
my dash attack has a big boost of dmg but i didnt notice a difference until you said
hard holly
Yeah I played the game for months til I noticed it
errant pine
i dont think i would have ngl
wheat elbow
I just realized that I noticed it on a subconcious level.
Never thought about it until I just read about it in here.
errant pine
xD
kind cloud
So I have an awesome Ares build right now (with his Legendary Vicious Cycle). I melted Theseus and Minotaur but I haven't left that chamber. If I wait for the new update/biome, will I be able to advance to the next biome or will I have to start over?
analog sail
You should be able to continue, but I'm not sure as the run is tecnically complete
kind cloud
Thanks for the response. I'll stay in the chamber and see what happens on Tuesday.
wheat elbow
Really?
analog sail
I had a run in asphodel when T&A were added and I was able to move on, so there's hope!
wheat elbow
Can you stand not playing for two whole days?
analog sail
He will play some Transistor in the meantime
kind cloud
Yeah, I'll manage. Transistor is one of my go-to favorites. But Bastion is a mess since Steam updated. I can't even access any of the options in the start menu. It's bizarre.
But on this current run, I discovered something interesting.
I had Athena's Deflect on Dash and Dionysus' poison on attack.
If I hit attack quickly after every dash, it created a purple 360 vortex that pulled enemies and dealt poison. It felt much stronger than the standard directional attack.
kind cloud
Good luck.
errant pine
thanks
im using bow so idk it could actually go well
i deal 525 dmg on crits
is that considered a good amount?
kind cloud
Uh...it's decent.
errant pine
nice 😃
kind cloud
If you correctly do a crit build, you can do damage of 1,000+ iirc.
errant pine
ooof
idk my build is based around my special attack
hit them away then dash normal attack
kind cloud
What's your special?
errant pine
the volley thing
kind cloud
Description does not ring a bell. 😂
errant pine
i have boon to make it hit people away
xD
from the god of water
i know his name
just cant spell it
kind cloud
Oh. Poseidon.
kind cloud
He's not good for boss fights unless you have Razor Shoals.
kind cloud
It's one of his boons and it does rupture damage.
Poseidon is great for common enemies in the game and surprisingly ineffective against bosses unless you have Razor Shoals.
errant pine
arghhhhh
ive got crit from arty
and more range dmg
and more dmg from dash attack from chaos
kind cloud
Do you have a Wrath?
errant pine
and more dmg in general from chaos
whats that?
ive got a defy death
2 actually 😃
kind cloud
Look at your screen. Do you have a 2nd meter under your health/life points?
errant pine
ah the ulty
yes
ive got lvl 3 common from arty
it was the only one i was offered
through the whole run
kind cloud
I find Artemis' Wrath to be weak but I'm probably not using her non-crit boons correctly.
errant pine
it is not the best i have found
but against hyrda it gets through one whole phase of his so
i dont mind it for that fight
kind cloud
What's your favorite weapon in the game? And do you have a preferred play style?
errant pine
fave weapon i dont have one
i just play them
and playstyle is go with the flow
i just use what i got
kind cloud
Once you build up your keepsake case, you can better engineer your builds.
pastel jolt
no, it's the case next to the weapons outside in the courtyard
pastel jolt
if you give a bottle of ambrosia to characters (except for hades) they'll give you a keepsake you can equip for special effects
errant pine
yeh i hate that hades baited me
that was
very depressing when he taunted me aswell
omggggggg
died again
mannnn
kind cloud
Yeah, Poseidon is horrible for that fight without Razor Shoals.
kind cloud
Did you kill at least one of the two bosses?
errant pine
no
i was close
if you combined there hp it wouldve been about half of one of the bars
kind cloud
Try killing Minotaur first and then deal with Theseus. That's the path I almost always choose.
errant pine
haha
need help ppl
should i replace my sea-gods wrath
with charm of the lovely goddess
kind cloud
I would advise against it. Aphrodite's Wrath charm doesn't work against bosses. And Poseidon's Wrath is useful because (1) it makes you temporarily impervious and (2) is effective against common enemies + bosses without Razor Shoals.
errant pine
ah ok
well i shall listen then
i was gonna say like surly minotaur dude on my side would be good
lost rose
It should? The timing would be real tight though
errant pine
ive got 4 dashes with deflect and my special on my bow has got deflect
my luck bruh
all athena
and the 2 extra dashes was the best option
wheat elbow
Aührodites Wrath effect is not useless against bosses, they can actually be charmed for a spell and attack each other. Their attacks still can hit you and they will hit you for around 10x more than regularly.
errant pine
oof
wheat elbow
That was me losing a run to a spear hero I charmed myself.
Mind you that I had the myrmidon bracer active, among other things, to reduce that incoming damage
Without it, that guy would have hit me for more than 100 damage.
Ask thyself: "Do I enjoy having a boss one-shot my entire healthbar in his juvenile lovesick anger fit?"
kind cloud
"Aührodites Wrath effect is not useless against bosses, they can actually be charmed"
This is news to me.
I've tried and it never worked for me so I abandoned that approach.
pastel jolt
it used to not work
kind cloud
When did it change? Do you recall?
wheat elbow
Hang on
God, I love to be on youtube
suddenly, I have footage to proof all my claims, it's amazing!
Charmed Hydra
Didn't make it to the final bossfight on that run sadly, but they are charmable too.
Here is a charmed alecto though!
(The 1 damage actually comes from the wrath effect hitting her by the way, go figure)
kind cloud
In light of this new info, I'll eventually try an Aphrodite build. I recall seeing a powerful cast build with her + Artemis.
wheat elbow
I had one of those. Aphrodite Cast + a lot of Artemis' cast related boons.
That run I actually won without doing anything except using casts.
Good times.
kind cloud
In general, I avoid cast builds because it's easy to be lazy and cheese through the game by spamming.
wheat elbow
I usually avoid cast builds because I avoid Artemis. She is just not consistent enough for my taste overall.
Cast builds also seem to feel detached quite harshly from your weapon, which can be a good thing but not always.
kind cloud
Yes. Agree on both points.
errant pine
bois
hes only gone and done it
first time
im so happy 😃
it was with such a weird build aswell lmao xD
kind cloud
First time clearing all 3 stages? Nice work!
errant pine
thank you bro
kind cloud
Describe your build.
kind cloud
Yes
errant pine
ok gimme a sec then
kind cloud
What was your weapon?
errant pine
lvl 2 rare lightning strike, perfect shot, lvl 2 rare different league, rare dying lament, rare divine flourish, epic static discharge, common enshrouded favour, relentless barrage, rare greatest reflex, epic atrophic flourish, epic divine dash, lvl4 rare sea-gods rage
bow was my weapon
and epic old spiked collar
kind cloud
Yeah, that's a mix of a lot of boons. Athena's Divine Dash combined with Hermes' Greatest Reflex forms an awesome synergy.
errant pine
ayyy
so im just good basically
and yeh
i was deflecting so much
4 dashes is weird to have tho
i like the shield but some person said the bow was easy so i was like ok ill use the bow
and ayy i did it
after 14 times
xD
native ether
The reason charm feels more useless is because the duration of the charm is much shorter
I think its at least 50% shorter
upbeat junco
what do you guys think is the best weapon(s) and what build is best for each of them?
turbid needle
Sword and shield are thought to be the two strongest weapons.
upbeat junco
why sword? because of the world chop upgrade?
turbid needle
Nova, actually.
upbeat junco
hmm might give it a go what boons is best for it?
turbid needle
Double Nova and Empowering Nova with big damage bonuses (Poseidon or Aphrodite for Attack, Artemis for Special) are what you want.
upbeat junco
ok thanks
turbid needle
If you do get Empowering Nova, skip Deadly Strike, Artemis' Attack boon. 40% crit rate is nice, but 25% is already huge and you want the multiplicative bonus to stack the higher bonus from other gods.
upbeat junco
empowering nova is crit thing?
turbid needle
After Special, your Attack has a 25% crit rate for 2 seconds.
turbid needle
Yep.
Generally speaking, you sneak two attacks in between any Nova. With Double Nova, make sure you're giving both pulses time to reach their full radius.
upbeat junco
ok thx
upbeat junco
Just got my second hammer, didn't get empowering nova but I got world splitter so I can chain the chop in between novas
yea i need to get used to this build, lost alot of lives but was doing heaps of damage
native ether
I'd put the Rail on my "best weapons" list, but fair warning, using it well takes much more practice than the sword and shield
(its also very hammer dependent, it doesnt really shine until you get hammers on it and then it really shows off how good it can be)
turbid needle
Both the sword and shield need Hammers to reach their potential.
native ether
pretty much every weapon does. I just like to point out the rail in particular because I find the rail is underwhelming without hammers and borderline op with it
more than the other weapons are that is
also while I still think Hunting Blades is the strongest boon in the game, I've just discovered that Merciful End comes pretty close
cause wow
that damage
turbid needle
Ares has the good stuff.
wheat elbow
The rail has great damage and is fun to use but becomes borderline unplayable under Frenzy
Spear is pretty much the worst, I think people agreed on that
upbeat junco
Yea my best weapons are bow and rail, maybe put shield in there but shield is pretty easy to learn. I prefer Dio or Zeus attack on rail and having shotgun or flurry fire is very strong. Bow is just artemis attack with twin and perfect shot ideally and triple shot is good too.
native ether
I only recommend Dio or Zeus if you have Flurry Fire. Something like a Deflect or Crit is usually better with a spread shot setup
jaunty pewter
dioooooo
turbid needle
Spread Shot has excellent burst damage with Zeus and reliably applies max stacks of poison. It's a good option.
upbeat junco
with zeus does spread shot apply 5 chain lightning balls?
wheat elbow
So, today I learned
Never take Poseidons Special on the shield.
It always leads to the special knocking enemies into me.
Usually Wretches ready to slap for 60 damage
turbid needle
God, I love Invigorating Blast.
wheat elbow
Every now and then, I try Tenebrous Veil.
Every now and then
I curse myself for having taken Tenebrous Veil.
tepid sentinel
Sheild best weapon lel
And pretty sure best for 120heat run well in my exp of playin
tawdry jackal
yeah, I actually fell in love with the shield and Dashing Wallop after watching @wheat elbow 120 Heat run x3
I also had an idea
to make the game even more miserable than simply having Tenebrous Veil on
how about
something like the Chaos Veil, but in the Pact of Punishment
and it'd go like this
"for X% rooms in a Biome, Rewards are unrevealed" (as in, each biome has a different number of rooms, and a percent of them would have secret rewards 10%-100% for a full blind run!)
just for the painful funsies
it would also make Fated Autority useless in the higher levels
wheat elbow
Hey man, glad to hear that! Dashing Wallop is easily one of the most satisfying Shield Boons to use.
I have tried and failed 20 times to get one last 120 heat run in today. Different weapons, different configurations.
The only thing I won from that is experience and a certain level of appreciation for some things that I had no love for before.
tawdry jackal
yeah!
As today is the last day for it anyway, Im gonna try 120 Heat anyway
I have 60 more Heat to choose
I already maxed out Frenzy (I dont think its as bad as everyone says)
Death Insurance and Convenience Cost
I dont like the idea of maxing out Damage (died too much of that), but could work on a Aphrodite/Myrmidon run again
I think making enemies tanky is much more of a hastle than making them fast
also @wheat elbow , is it true that our records are gonna be wiped in the update? Or they were just messing with me?
pastel jolt
nobody is messing with you
run times - not the number of clears you've done, just stuff like your fastest clear per weapon or overall - got reset when elysium was added, so it's a fair bet that they'll also be cleared when the update comes
wheat elbow
I mean
Everyone is just guessing at this point.
We have no idea what they are going to do until they have done it.
pastel jolt
based on previous experience
proud storm
if they do it like they did when elysium dropped theyre going to clear your best times and your highest heat runs
pastel jolt
i'm not saying it's a certain thing, degrand, i'm saying it happened last time, which suggests it may happen this time too
it makes logical sense to clear both because how fast you cleared the game and what heat you did it on is no longer relevant once each run is longer and more difficult
proud storm
you'll keep your total number of runs and possibly your current winning streak
wheat elbow
They could open up some kind of board that shows your best off statistics for previous updates which would be a neat extra.
In general, there should be something in Zags room that shows you your victories.
Kinda annoying to always have to go for a win if you want to see it.
wheat elbow
It is pretty good if you get it early and getting it doesn't ruin your run.
green birch
That’s the thing though— if you get it in Tartarus then it’s pretty much impossible to ruin your run because you’ll never have to choose Obol doors again, but you still get all the benefits of being loaded at Charon’s
tawdry jackal
@green birch oh! good job on your first Heated Victory x33
green birch
haha thank you! It's not quite my first though, I'm just too much of a coward to go past 20 heat
but... now that I know The Truth... I might just have to
wheat elbow
If they buff Poseidon tomorrow by making his effects, all of them, work on bosses while also giving him two good duo boons
I will be one happy camper
green birch
does poseidon have any duos atm?
south comet
green birch
oh nice
wheat elbow
Yeah
But it is useless against any enemy that can't be knocked around.
Bosses or Soul Catchers for example.
tawdry jackal
oh
my god xD
I tried what you guys told me to do a heatless run or two just to destress
and im speechless!
most enemies go down in one or two hits
most rooms in Tartarus have less than 5-10 enemies
I freezing got over a thousant gold while in Asphodel!
Both Ares and Aphrodite Legendaries and Duo
like
wow
was the game THAT easy when I first started out?
Its been so long since Ive played without heat TTwTT
green birch
We love GROWTH!
native ether
Yeah game really feels much easier when you turn down the heat lol
wheat elbow
@tawdry jackal That is always the best feeling. Getting to kick the games butt after having forced yourself through 60 to 200 heat over and over again
it's just like vacation.
Had to do it again today as well.
green birch
I keep telling myself that one day I'll be good enough to do a no damage pierced butterfly run
but today... is not that day
tawdry jackal
oh, those are fun!
I suggest going rail special and getting hermes dodge as high as possible (without his keepsake)
and dont be disappointed, the game is very very hard and punishing
you'll get the hang of it x3
today's video was pretty cool @wheat elbow !
Its a shame Poseidon knockbacks dont work on bosses xp
native ether
Oh yeah I found a youtuber who did a pierced butterfly 600% dmg run and it was super entertaining
wheat elbow
600!?
green birch
i am In Awe
native ether
I mean 500% plus the game's base default 100%
tawdry jackal
600???
My max was like 47,5% extra damage!
native ether
tawdry jackal
oh, you mean the extra enemy damage!
doing that now
always picking aphrodite!
she halves that x3
native ether
Yeah maxxed Torment
tawdry jackal
I didnt realize that 500% were on top of game's own 100%...
makes sense
wheat elbow
I could probably do that with only Torment being active
Thing is, at least for me
Once you have beaten 120 heat
everything below that seems irrelevant
tawdry jackal
when I finish (trying) iIl get a screenshot here x3
been trying max torment for a while too
wheat elbow
I have a hard time getting myself into playing runs with 1-119 heat
Max Torment is pretty easy in theory.
All you have to do is to never get hit.
And/or grab Aphrodite + Myrmidon Bracer.
tawdry jackal
its like Hypnos always says
"Have you tried not getting hit?"
tawdry jackal
thats how I got 60Heat by the way
Aphro + Myrmidon at Theseus/Asterius
wheat elbow
Weak + myrmidon bracer is a powerful combination for reducing damage.
And you can further expand on it with other boons and powers
native ether
I had that too. Common strategy especially with high torment.
tawdry jackal
anime reference?
native ether
Gotta be honest though, if enemies past Elysium are doing even more damage, I don't think Torment is gonna be a viable 120 heat option
At least not max torment
wheat elbow
@tawdry jackal Baby, you know it
tawdry jackal
they really have to give us more options
or make Heat points worth more
wheat elbow
He whole pact needs to be re-established anyway.
Torment should be 10% damage for 2 heat.
native ether
Pact could use some revamping yeah.
wheat elbow
For starters.
native ether
I'd love to see more options as well.
tawdry jackal
just imagine in a couple months we going at 300 Heat for giggles
wheat elbow
Tenebrous Veil, if they want to keep that abomination
errant pine
bro
wheat elbow
should easily be 10 and 30.
errant pine
thats second time in a row now
wheat elbow
No questions asked.
errant pine
sorry for interupting
wheat elbow
Go on.
errant pine
but i just won for my second time
and it was right after the first time i wpon
won*
did it with the sword
wheat elbow
Congratulations!
errant pine
with no defy deaths usedf
wheat elbow
Your first streak!
errant pine
yay 😃
tawdry jackal
Congrats, man! x33
errant pine
im on 5 hp 😃
thank you
basically halved the time taken aswell
so thats a good thing
wheat elbow
The sound of progress.
native ether
Veil is a neat idea but it needs some reworking to make it more fun to use.
proud storm
veil is NOT fun to use no matter how you spin it
native ether
I actually enjoy using Veil, but not if I'm seriously going for something like a 120 heat win.
green birch
me, sweating, always using 1 veil with any heat build
proud storm
you're on thin ice
wheat elbow
@native ether I think about you.
Everytime
I use that abomination.
And start lamenting
"There are people who enjoy this!"
proud storm
theyre called masochists
native ether
If I'm just messing around and trying neat ideas, it's fun to kind of go "lol let's just leave the run up to the dice"
wheat elbow
I say as I replace my common Ares Wrath with a rare Zeus Wrath effect that won't be used until the first boss fight.
native ether
I don't find it fun to use in any serious heat attempt.
wheat elbow
Like, on one run I played today, I had 2 god boons and 3 poms wasted on my wrath effect thanks to Tenebrous Veil
native ether
But I think it's a neat challenge and with some solid tweaking it could be improved.
proud storm
i make extra sure to avoid using veil in any of my heat runs
wheat elbow
Thanks to RNG.
proud storm
tenebrous veil
errant pine
idk
proud storm
removes up to two boon choices
wheat elbow
Tenebrous Veil is an Option to pick in your pact of punishment.
proud storm
it's a pact option
green birch
Update comes at ¯_(ツ)_/¯ o’clock
errant pine
yeh i havent unlocked that
errant pine
@green birch ah ok thast annoying
wheat elbow
It takes away one or two option from every godboon, chaos room, D Hammer
proud storm
probably 20 hours from now
wheat elbow
And even from your bloody poms of power
proud storm
if it's like the other times
errant pine
xDDDDDD
wheat elbow
I have no idea how people enjoy that!
proud storm
the bottom line is pact of punishment should be reworked
native ether
People enjoy it when they're not going for serious masochistic high heat runs.
errant pine
yeh
wheat elbow
There hasn't been a single run that did not end in me screaming or crying in frustration.
errant pine
seems kinda broing with no choice?
wheat elbow
It is not boring.
green birch
That’s why u only use 1
wheat elbow
It is not boring, absolutely not!
native ether
It's not very fun to use in combination with other modifiers. On its own, it can be rather entertaining.
wheat elbow
The pact option that increases enemy HP
Also should be more costly.
It's 10 heat for 50%. Should be 20 heat imo.
proud storm
if you want true fun use whipped frenzy
proud storm
up to +40% enemy speed
wheat elbow
Make Nyx' Keepsake unaffected by Grim Inevitability!
Putting that one into Feedback right now.
Done.
tawdry jackal
its perfect!!!
a good extra effect so her keepsake os particularly attractive even on less heat runs, "Darkness Guide You, Child"
errant pine
how difficult is it to win with spear
green birch
What’s your favorite weapon so far?
green birch
You probably wouldn’t be a fan of spear then; it’s a lot of small rapid damage like rail normal
errant pine
ah
green birch
Give it a try tho, no harm in it
errant pine
a challenge it is
green birch
Do it
green birch
I have faith in you
green birch
Yes
errant pine
ah
native ether
I personally think Veil would need at least these things to make it fun to use:
- Only provides you with one bonus, doesn't show you all 3 and gray 2 out.
- Doesn't affect shops or Poms of Power (alternatively, add extra levels which change what it modifies)
- No exchanges are offered, being forced into an exchange is painfully annoying.
I'd find Veil more fun if you could limit specifically what was limited (hammers boons wells shops etc)
green birch
Hers is arguably one of the best
green birch
You do more damage when your health is low
errant pine
ah thats good
green birch
It’s 3rd star boost is 40% I believe
errant pine
ive got all the god keepsakes and chaos dude
wheat elbow
The Spear does not have to be about small damage numbers if you don't want to.
Charge Attack Build is very strong and viable
wheat elbow
All you need to take care off is checking off the punishment pact that makes enemies have blue shields
and maybe frenzy.
green birch
Did you get everyone in the house?
wheat elbow
Do that and you're gucci
green birch
Skelly and Cerb too
errant pine
idk i got achilles cleaner nyx and dog and intro dude near the lake
green birch
Also Thanatos
green birch
Riiiip
errant pine
where is he
green birch
He appears randomly during runs
errant pine
😃
green birch
Doesn’t start appearing at all until after run 23
green birch
You’ll get there soon
green birch
UuuuuUUUUuuuuh, you did Sisyphus or Patroclus?
green birch
It’s similar to Hermes in that it’s a “whole run” boon
green birch
For each room you clear with no damage taken, you get ~2% attack bonus
green birch
I mean you benefit the most from it by choosing it to start and not changing boons between areas
errant pine
but im too bad to make it worthy and that is a good idea
green birch
It changes your play style
green birch
I didn’t start playing safe until I got it aha
errant pine
fair enough
green birch
But still, the 1st area alone will get you a good straight 20% or so!
errant pine
yeh i guess
my most impressive achievement
is killing the hydra and having full hp at the end of the battle
i was so happy
i h8 him so much
green birch
O dang, nice
green birch
Since I got it? Over a hundred
green birch
Since this update? Uhhh maybe 15
native ether
I've beaten Hades I'd say about a quarter of my runs. I've run the game about 110 times myself
wheat elbow
I have lost around 20 runs just today.
High heated run attempts put a huge dampener on my W/L ratio
native ether
Some of those runs were purposeful seed resets, and some of those runs were cancelled because I gave up mid run.
native ether
Luckily runs take only about 25-45 minutes.
errant pine
purposeful seed resest???
wheat elbow
@green birch A lot of very short attempts in between there.
native ether
Basically purposefully killing myself to get a new seed setup XD
green birch
Ah... fair
green birch
I like hunting for new builds so I rarely seed reset haha
errant pine
i like just building the most random stuff i get
native ether
Like if I run the Ares keepsake and the intent of getting Slicing Shot for a Hunting Blades run and I don't have Slicing Shot yet by the end of Tartarus? Reset XD.
green birch
Random builds you say?
errant pine
you must reset so much
yes
i dont rlly aim for something
just
whatever i get try to make it work
green birch
Can I interest you in some tenebrous veil 😛
green birch
Bless hehe
errant pine
yee im just not there yet
hopefully i will win my spear run
we shall see
its going meh rn
errant pine
yeh 😃
ah idk i like the cast a lot cause its easier to hit
but the ult was common so it only does 80 not 100 base like last time 😦
green birch
Aw rip
green birch
For the other 3?
errant pine
no
i was gonna ask you for advice on which artemis boon to take but a rare occurrence happened and i activated my brain
green birch
Lol ok nice. Artemis is a tricky one cause her boon pool is Vast
errant pine
i chose spear plus crit chance and attack dmg on the attack
green birch
Both good
errant pine
she seems like a really good god
green birch
Artemis always carries me to victory tbh
green birch
Athena’s deflect is really good.
errant pine
yeh i love it on the dash
green birch
Yessss
errant pine
i had 4 dashes with it xD
green birch
Niiiice
errant pine
i think the rest of her is not to my liking tho
green birch
I feel like Athena has a smaller pool of some of which are super good boons
But Artemis has a broad pool of good but niche boons
turbid needle
Ares has by far the two strongest (Duo) boons in the game, Hunting Blades and Merciful End.
If you get REALLY lucky, you can get both on the same run and delete the world.
errant pine
idk what they do
turbid needle
Hunting Blades is a modifier for his Blade Rift cast, makes them heat-seeking. Merciful Blades instantly triggers a Doom proc while providing an extra hit for big damage. You can then rapid-fire Doom procs.
errant pine
cool
errant pine
@green birch
i did it
second time playing spear i win yay 😃
third win in a row bois
brittle vault
how do you make the spear work, right now, i hate how little damage it does
errant pine
i used artemis crit
brittle vault
what if you don't get artemis boons?
errant pine
idk bro i got 4 artemis boons
74% chance to crit
on return
then if they are marked
95% chance to crit
with a 21% faster special i can spam it
and it crits almost all the time
so much dmg
lvl 5 zeus wrath aswell helps ^^
i guess its shield now 😃
errant pine
do you think i should use god of wine or god of water(again know their names just cant spell for the life of me)
and yes
thank you bro
it was very close tbf
green birch
Water
red warren
Poseidon has great ult and focus on knocking enemies away (you can even increase the damage foes get when they hit the wall) while Dionysus is nice with his poison
Personally I prefer poison at higher heat levels just because you can easily chip off these blue hearts
errant pine
i died 😦
well i say a win streak of 3 is good
and i will probs stick with water for now cause i am not gonna do heat levels just yet
native ether
for the more un-initiated, duo boons are boons that combine the powers of 2 various gods. A list of all of them and their pre-requisites can be found on the Hades wiki
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Duo_Boons
i plan on keeping that specific page as up to date as possible, since I'm the creator :p
upbeat junco
Dio (God of Wine) has good boons, but his boons are mainly used for high speed weapons like spear attack, rapid fire bow and rail. Poison can do a pretty good amount of damage as well.
Also are there any boons that increase the damage of the poison? Or just other boons I should take with a Dio attack Rail build in high heat runs?
green birch
You’re wanting poms of power!
The first one you get will increase the poison damage by 2 and the poms after that will increase it by 1, so all in all it’s quite a boost!
upbeat junco
Yea I always try to aim to get as many Poms as I can doing poison build. But are there any other boons I should get when doing a poison build run?
poison rail*
green birch
Unfortunately there aren’t any boons that straight up buff the power of status effects 😦
For poison rail in general though.... since Dio incurs a status effect super easily, combining him with Aphro or Ares is usually not a bad move
stable oyster
Peer pressure
Is good for increasing poison dmg
A note to all people who want veil to not show you the other boons: being able to see the other choices is a HUGE deal in high heat speedruns, because the one that is unlocked changes for everything other than the first room. The change would make seed hunting about 3x more tedious
trim ingot
couldn't you just seed hunt without veil?
native ether
@upbeat junco If you're doing a Poison Rail run, I highly recommend dipping into Aphrodite, getting Weak on some ability, and then hitting up Aphro and Dio boons until you get "Low Tolerance" (its their duo boon) makes your poison stack an additional 3 times against Weak foes.
In addition, I would recommend getting Flurry Fire or Infinity Chamber on your hammer.
In general I would recommend sinking into Dio boons more than Aphro boons overall so you can roll Premium Vintage and get the free Max Health boosts.
Unfortunately there aren’t any boons that straight up buff the power of status effects
Technically thats not true cause Ares has that one that lets his doom stack up. And Aphro has a duration extender for Weak which I highly always recommend getting.
upbeat junco
Ok thanks mate I’ll try that out
rugged apex
sweet surrender also sort of buffs weak, if not directly
median ridge
i finally got a sub-20 minute run......just before the new zone gets added and the times are erased again
native ether
nice!
median ridge
and then immediately got an even better time. hopefully i can keep beating up to elysium within 18 minutes 😅
native ether
its definitely doable in under 17 minutes :p
I did it today in 16:30
definitely recommend the sword and some kind of nova build though, that's seriously insane if you're going for a fast clear
autumn tapir
nova crits are my favorite build
native ether
Double Nova Super Nova Artemis Crit is ridiculous lmao
turbid needle
@covert grove Do you hold any WRs for your speedruns?
wheat elbow
Weird.
kind cloud
"Double Nova Super Nova Artemis Crit is ridiculous lmao"
Yeah, it is. But you should've seen how absurdly easy the game was with Instant Nova + Super Nova + Artemis Pressure Points. Players could spam the Stygian Blade Special and easily beat the first 3 biomes. (Double Nova replaced Instant Nova in the Hermes update to balance the abilities.)
If you wanted, you could replicate a much weaker version of Instant Nova by using Epic tier Swift Flourish (Hermes) which makes the special 30% faster.
hushed ledge
turbid needle
Nova builds are greatly enthusing to me
covert grove
@turbid needle Unfortunately I'm the only one posting speedruns to the official page lately, could really use some new blood in there if you guys are interested https://www.speedrun.com/Hades
turbid needle
Congratulations, you're a world record holder!
covert grove
Thank you thank you
proud storm
i'm already lucky if i ever come close to 15 minutes
brittle vault
i'm sure there will be more people once the game launches fully
thin jetty
must be pretty interesting learning how to speedrun a game that’s in progress though 👀
finite grail
Seems like it’d take a lot with them being able to straight up remove big strategies if necessary
night compass
i started a brand new save file just to see how far i could get with my 230-runs experience. the answer is a little ways into elysium
i stopped getting boons midway through asphodel which was interesting. i took a lot of damage just standing in the lava because im so used to having 2 dashes
9/10
i havent unlocked the lounge area but meg is still hanging around, nice
wheat elbow
Where does she stand?
terse tiger
@covert grove what "catagory" do you typically run? No heat? 120?
night compass
@wheat elbow in the corner of the hallway where Nyx stands. she is very displeased.
stable oyster
Haelian holds wr in normal and 120 heat @terse tiger
Also yea 8 min is insane, there’s a reason we stopped posting
wheat elbow
I just saw the Announcement regarding Beta Testers.
Didn't even know the game had any at this point.
night compass
actually i wonder if i should use heat off the bat. would be a quick way to get a lot of darkness
wheat elbow
You can slowly but steadily ramp it up that way.
Instead of just starting with all of it at full force.
Slowly easing your way into it.
faint carbon
you're limited to 500 darkness anyway if you use that pact option
wheat elbow
Pretty sure that costs a bunch of key.
wheat elbow
Do you get the entire pact immdiatly?
Pretty sure you need to unlock individual options with additional keys
night compass
you do, but i dont think the first one is terribly expensive
stable oyster
Torment is like 2
night compass
i have 3 keys. nice
night compass
stifling darkness is 20 keys, dang
upbeat junco
I just beat a 60 heat run with rail and upon completion I realized that at some point I think I've done a 24:30 rail run at 60 heat
spice turret
Well... Off to work. You guys enjoy the patch when it drops
brittle vault
how do you deal with the little exploding chariots?
pastel jolt
cry a lot
errant pine
😂😂
median ridge
just keep running away until they die naturally
brittle vault
so they do run out. i thought you had to do the handshake like the exploding fireballs from path of exile
median ridge
if you don’t have any other enemies in the room and you’re not in a hurry, it’s basically a free room
terse tiger
@brittle vault typically I use whatever dash ability I have to damage them as I straff them. They eventually blow up on their own, but the damage helps it along.
median ridge
if theyre getting too close i usually use casts to try and stop them
wheat elbow
Ranged abilities
median ridge
theyre very low health which is nice
wheat elbow
or luring them into traps
grand patrol
athena boons hdhcjfh
terse tiger
I always have problems with the large chariots, especially on high heat runs. I'm not sure why, but I have trouble dogding when they start to sprint.
median ridge
ive noticed that the flame wheels are a real problem for speedrunners XD
because the meta for speed is crit sword specials which doesnt defend from the blast at all, and you cant just wait around for the lil chariots to die naturally
median ridge
oooh yeah thats smart
turbid needle
I cant decide if Athena Nova is better than Artemis Nova
median ridge
i remember the rapid nova days with athena. that was fun
wheat elbow
Artemis Nova is inconsistent and only damage on the most inconsistent god in the game.
turbid needle
I feel like Artemis does a lot more damage when crits are empowered, but the deflect from Athena is nice
wheat elbow
Athena is damage and protection on a goddess that is a bit more consistent than Artemis.
Athena also has a lot of extra lifes in her disposal which make her even more worthwhile for 120 heat runs with Torment
native ether
Artemis Nova combined with Double Nova is huge damage
wheat elbow
If it crits
turbid needle
The crits arent that inconsistent