If the run is going bad, taking a trove can end up being an uncessary risk.
#h1-builds-and-combat
wheat elbow
Then there is the factor of the trinity of pact effects that just makes enemies unbaringly hard to kill.
50% more health, 50% more enemies and blue shields.
Add Armor to the mix and unless your run is a true gold experience, you may find yourself winning that fight but not getting a big reward out of it.
Treasure chests are a very decisive thing in heated runs.
And, again, same case for the treassure chests, they are, under convenience fee, worth half as much as usual.
turbid needle
So it turns out Chaos Shot boons affect Scintillating Feast.
tender hull
sometimes when im using the blade in asphodel the witches(?) end up traveling to the back corners of the lava to attack and i have to stand around and wait until they get closer to hit them does anyone else run into that problem
wheat elbow
You mean Cast Damage increases affecting the Zeus/Dionysus Duoboon?
Yeah, it's amazing
vale sphinx
@tender hull I just spam casts in their general direction until they move over
errant narwhal
@vast robin I had that problem as well, if you didn’t manage yet have you tried using paypal to buy it? It solved my problem
I just removed my account after buying
wheat elbow
Tenebrous Veils terribleness knows no bounds.
green birch
It wouldn’t be as bad if we weren’t shown the boons we could have gotten aha
wheat elbow
I mean, first of all, yes, it makes me freakin' livid everytime that happens, but even if you leave that to the side
Imagine having a good boon on your main attack and also some good boons to go well with it. Zeus + 2 or 3 boons as an example, right?
And then Artemis shows up and forces you to replace your Zeus attack with her crappy crit attack.
Now you have met Zeus X times and all of those have been rendered useless
pastel jolt
it actually used to not show you the boons, then it got changed so it did
icy edge
I just had the most monstrous rail run
Got both ares and zeus legendaries
Zeus dash had double lightning chance and bigger bolts, attack was poseidon with razor shoals and the poseidon/zeus duo, special was empowering triple blast with longer weak aphrodite that makes them take more damage, while ares cast had both size and succ powers
Zagreus never felt more like a god
wheat elbow
Yeah, that's a lot of damage
wheat elbow
I think I will stop playing the spear until the patch hits.
It is not fun
and I feel handicapped everytime I pick it up
native ether
Veil would be a bit better if you could refuse a boon if you didn't like your choices
But again on Veil. I don't think removing it is the answer. There is a reason there are other modifiers, but I'd like to see more options so veil doesn't necessarily feel strongarmed
wheat elbow
Tenebrous Veil needs to be changed or replaced.
As it is right now, it go for 10/20 heat and it would still be a random mess, but at least a mess that may be worth the trouble.
Because I actually want to get a full heat run done at some point in the very distant future, I would like the difficulty not to come from an RNG mess
turbid needle
With you on the spear. The bow needs a buff but it is still workable (and a full Artemis set-up with Twin Shot, Hunter Dash, and Deadly Strike is just nasty), but the spear is just... Not fun.
warped flame
I"m terrible without the rail
turbid needle
The rail is probably my favorite weapon. It's so good.
wheat elbow
The rail isn't as good as sword and board but it is still very fun and engaging to play.
The bow is not fun to play for me but at least it is good, especially in capable hands.
But the spear? Hell no.
finite grail
Really? I love the spear, between it’s special and quick attacks I find it very fun in combination with many boons
Armor piercing on it is 👌
wheat elbow
What is "quick" about it?
All abilities leave you stationary
The special and the charge attacks take forever
native ether
Rail is the best weapon
finite grail
Tbh I ignore the charge attacks unless I find the hammer for it but I find the jab to be really quick and with good range. It doesn’t 100% lock you in place like I find the rails primary does, either
native ether
can confirm, have 120 heat moded the rail. Its best girl
finite grail
don’t get me wrong, rail is very fun but personally I prefer the spear 🤷♂️
native ether
yes I assigned a gender to a fictional weapon and no I do not have an issue
Spear attacks fast but I don't always find myself mobile with it. Then again, I don't either with the Sword Bow or Shield
wheat elbow
Not mobile with the shield?
The shield is pretty much the most mobile weapon in the game.
You bumrush all the enemies with dash attacks like crazy, zooming around the map
and that is ignoring your Bullrush which purposely moves you from A to B.
native ether
I find the shield a very slow weapon. Sure it has the dash attacks and bull rush but what feels like the longest recovery animation in the game.
Maybe not slow. Probably "clunky" is a better term. It's why I don't like using it.
finite grail
I also think the hitbox for blocking on it can be wonky
native ether
Yeah I don't find the shield a very "fluid" weapon like the Rail or the Sword.
wheat elbow
I don't block as much as others, for better or worse, so that doesn't affect me too deeply.
The Shield is as fluid as a Tsunami.
native ether
Well that's a comparison and a half there
finite grail
I can’t proc attack booms very quickly without getting close range w/ shield :(
Maybe I’m just bad tho lol
wheat elbow
Having a problem with being in close range I can understand.
That takes a bit of practise and the right mindset.
The best shield runs you will have when you basically just turn off all hints of respect you have for your opposition and don't recognize everything they can do to you as a threat.
That gives you the gall of just going out there and outright end them without them having much of a chance to retaliate
native ether
But nah. I just don't find it fluid. Feels clunky to hit, lengthy recovery time, sure it has the knockback/stun time but it's attack animation feels much slower than the sword. I prefer faster hitting weapons with more attack animations (rail, sword esp with flurry blade)
It's why the bow and shield are my least favorite weapons in the game.
wheat elbow
The shield dash attacks are faster than almost everything in the game
In my book, it's faster than the rail attacks
native ether
I mean every dash attack is faster than almost everything in the game (exception of the bow) they're all near instant after the dash
But I also don't spam dash attack. Prefer using my dash for mobility and escape rather than engaging onto enemies.
wheat elbow
That explains why you think the shield is slow and clunky.
native ether
Likely does. Doesn't suit my playstyle in the slightest
wheat elbow
Tried a Spear Run with High Torment and No Healing
I was so close to making it a reality.
A little bit of poor play and a little bit of bad boons
icy edge
Shield is not the most mobile since the nyoom update
old ferry
So I'm not a very experienced player but I just jumped back in. I played a bit way back at launch and just came back today. I find the shield to be amazingly quick and powerful, primarily due to the dash attacks. I got the poison on attack to start then double swing - no knockback. Eventually I got the area on the dash attack. I just never really stopped moving and my damage was incredible. Beat the second area boss for my first time and died against the mid-boss in area 3.
Mainly, my point was that it felt like a very mobile, fast hitting weapon. I also still have the option to block and throw it long range which are nice to have.
wheat elbow
^That guy get's it
nova flame
hi everyone. don't have an access to my pc right now. when is the new patch dropping?
nova flame
thanks!
tepid sentinel
anyone gots tips of how to use the sword better
im more of a shield an bow boi mainly
in mid/higher heat*
(yal can jsut type whatever ill prly read it later lel)
wheat elbow
Special is your main source of damage. fairly fast and strong, catches a lot of enemies
in the cooldown, you can usually fit dashes and attacks in
weaving these three together helps you max out your damage potencial
From the hammer, almost all attack boons are disappointments while the special boons are game winners
stable oyster
Don’t be afraid to dash away before you finish the 3 hit combo, sometimes even after only one hit, don’t commit until you are 100% sure you have an opening
Also I second what DDG said about hammer choices, special is the way to go
turbid needle
Cruel Thrust isn't great, but Flurry Blade with Dio or Zeus attack and World Splitter with Artemis, Poseidon, or Aphrodite attack are great.
Without Swift Flourish, Nova Smash can root you in place waiting for the shockwaves to travel outwards, especially with Double Nova.
turbid needle
Nah, you're good.
Swift Flourish actually lets you stack Double Nova and Super Nova, which is definitely among the sword's strongest builds with a good Special to go with it.
wheat elbow
I hardly if ever finish the full three hit sword combo.
Usually it's a dash attack or a single hit
turbid needle
Yeah, I'm not a fan of it.
wheat elbow
It's cute that it's there, the only attack chain in the game
tepid sentinel
ty fellow shades
pseudo ocean
Going up against Theseus with a Bow power shot build... There's a tiny window in which you can actually hit him, otherwise 95% of the time he's blocking. Couple this with the relatively slow draw speed of the bow (even when using the dash shot), and it's really frustrating to say the least. You can't just stand there waiting for the exact moment to hit him when you have chariots and floor AOEs chasing you down. I hardly ever use the bow, but when I do I always take the rapid shot and/or piercing shot hammer upgrades, or go with a build focused around the special attack. Without these , I just can't seem to hit him enough times before I'm out of HP. I once took the hammer upgrade that causes the draw speed to be extra slow.... lol, never doing that again.
tacit rover
Elysium in itself is frustrating imo...the pink butterfly ball is unforgiving if you cant dodge its spore things and couple that w/the heroes that can revive and its just kind of a nightmare to deal with. I still honestly haven't figured out how to beat 3rd boss w/a 100% success rate. Because man does that blocking suck. The amount of times my wrath attacks have just hit block after block :/
ember lotus
So after several days of searching for Hunting Blades, I was fortunate enough to get Vicious Cycle and common level War God's Thirst in the rage slot and I've never seen Theseus drop so fast.
I've never though much of any of the wrath effects, except Athena and maybe Artemis.
turbid needle
Ares, Artemis, and Dionysus Wraths are all the biggest damage dealers.
Zeus is up there if you can stack a few of his boons up.
green birch
What do you think of the longer charge time for Dionysus wrath though? I find myself taking the 50% wrath boons a lot more just to get more mileage out of them.
turbid needle
50 would be really really OP, actually.
The damage from Dio Wrath cannot be understated. Even Common lets you very quickly get five stacks for 50 damage ticks, and if you have maxed Privileged Status, that's 75 right there, while Wine-God's Stupor gives you a free status to proc PS.
It's like War God's Thirst but instead of making you invulnerable you get a Status Curse and you're free to apply damage elsewhere.
I always think the same thing in the middle of a run ("Really wish this were 50 or even 75") and then I get it against a boss or in a particularly long challenge room and I remember why they balanced it to 100.
wheat elbow
Note that the 100 Wrath effects become better on heated runs with more and more tanky enemies.
Because the fights will naturally last longer, you can get your wrath stacked further in, making you at least able to use them even in regular rooms every now and then.
(of course, this also means that the regular 50 wrath effects just become much better in general too)
turbid needle
Holy schnikes Infinity Chamber is powerful with Dionysus.
wheat elbow
Is it? What makes it better than a regular clip of X shots?
turbid needle
Your stacks never drop.
wheat elbow
Go on, I'm listening
terse tiger
On the Rail, can you get shotgun + no reload?
wind vale
no reload blocks railgun/shotgun and faster fire iirc
making it compete with them and to me clearly the worst upgrade
terse tiger
I didn't think so.. just thought i would ask. with that knowledge, i couldn't see myself taking that upgrade
wind vale
on the other hand it easier to use compared to the faster fire one if you dont have the rhythm yet(and basically has the same purpose)
terse tiger
I've used it in the past with dionysus, and that was fine. but that was before i switched to m&kb, and i had auto aim on. 😛
wind vale
i mean its ok for dionysus and zeus but id always prefer the fast fire and +6 ammo over it
terse tiger
Agreed. I think Zeus + Rapid is my fav combo with the rail.
turbid needle
Flurry Fire has higher DPS normally, but I really really liked the up-time on Infinity Chamber. And yeah, stacking Zeus on FF is a MONSTER.
turbid needle
Did Trials get nerfed again? I haven't had a first Boon with full effect from the Mirror in days.
And Athena's Trial is still absurd.
wheat elbow
I had good boons from the first god picked
I also am still picking those rooms up far more often than I should.
Even on 500% Torment.
Showing no respect for the imposing threat that is the game
native ether
The reason infinity chamber is good is just so you don't have to reload
Removes some of that micromanagement.
median ridge
i had an amazing rail run. ares on explosive shotgun attack, athena on dash, merciful end and the ares boon that lets you stack curse damage
native ether
Which makes it easier to keep 5 poison stacks on an enemy because there's never a time where you're running out of bullets and trying to find a dash to reload-cancel in, and it means you never have to worry about spamming reloads as often as you can in boss fights.
It's powerful. Infinity Chamber was my winning choice at 120 Heat on the Rail.
(also yeah as others said you can only have 1 "primary mode modifier" on your weapon. So no combining heavy slug/spread fire/flurry fire/infinity chamber.)
There was a brief patch I believe where you could combine Slug Shot with Infinite Chamber and it was absolutely busted. It was basically pinpoint accurate flurry fire that did 80 base damage per shot.
wheat elbow
Sounds balanced.
native ether
Did I mention it stunned too :kappa:
It was the most broken thing I've ever seen in this game by a long shot and it was incredibly fun to mess with.
tawdry jackal
do you think they'll make it so you keep the built up bonus from a keepsake (lets say Thanatos Butterfly Earing) because rn if I take it at the start, I have to keep it all the way to the end
like, you keep the bonus once you change (you keep the money from Hypnos Coinbag)
native ether
its a change id like to see, but dunno if we'll see it
I like using the butterfly but I only use it it limited specific situations where I don't want to use a single other keepsake, because you're shooting yourself in the foot to not run it in Tartarus if you're gonna run around it (because its considerably easier to take no hits in Tartarus)
Its also... honestly just boring to use the entire run. One of the fun parts of Hades is swapping your keepsake and swapping your strategy. I try to do it as often as possible, and the butterfly disincentives me to enjoy that.
(its also not very helpful on some builds but I dont think thats the fault of the butterfly, just that it doesnt work well on things like the rail or the spear because of the low attack base damage)
dry oracle
unequippable butterfly would have to be nerfed a bit i think
native ether
I mean you could get a max of (2.5x15) in the first biome, and only (2.5x12)- ish for each the other 2, which doesn't feel like something too powerful to have in addition for no longer to be swapped to, (cause it gets locked) or to have a secondary keepsake with.
native ether
Considering Skull Earring provides a free 30% under an amount of health, and Distant Memory provides 30% for ranged attacks, /shrug doesn't feel too op.
wheat elbow
Pierced Butterfly would be super OP if you could keep the stacks.
Dito the plume.
Just taking it for Tartarus would mean 25 to 30% damage and/or dodge stacks
native ether
The plume I definitely think would be, the butterfly I don't think as much considering it's only an additive bonus.
The plume honestly only because of the dodge chance. The speed is great but rarely is something too strong.
wheat elbow
Speaking of the plume
First of all, people who watch my videos are absolute BEASTS!
One guy noticed that there have been opportunities where I did not get the reward for the plume even though I hit the time limit.
On one of my recent videos, I, as an example, beat the asterius solo fight within 30 seconds (around 25 seconds ingame time) but there was no reward to be had.
He thinks that it is tied to me using Artemis Wrath effect in that fight.
native ether
maybe the timer keeps progressing during the wrath animation?
wheat elbow
It did
but even though that happened, it was below 30 seconds of ingame time
I tried it a second time and I did not get the stack from his fight even though I did not use a wrath effect in that instant either.
Clearly, the Asterius fight must be bugged in general.
I have to check other occassions too
trim ingot
probably kept counting during his animation walking out?
pastel jolt
from what i know, the asterius fight isn’t considered “over” until he’s left the room, because that’s when the reward appears
steep lark
I like plume but I never use it because of the Hades 45 second rooms I get a lot of them sometimes and it really hurts plume because of that
wheat elbow
Pretty sure there is only one per run.
native ether
It's definitely not scripted like that. I've gotten multiple ones per run.
proud storm
they only appear in tartarus
sometimes you get none, sometimes one
maybe two if the game hates you
wheat elbow
Don't think I have ever had two of them in one run.
Sometimes it feels like it if you also meet Thanatos, scum that he is.
turbid needle
Has Double Nova always been as good as Hunting Blades?
Because one hammer breaking an entire weapon wide open seems like a little much.
turbid needle
It's not, but keep going.
wheat elbow
And Double Nova has just been a thing since this patch, so it's hard to gauge "always"
Hunting Blades is deeply overrated. Forces you to take boons that are mediocre on their own and hope that you will see the duo boon to make the mdeiocre things you picked up earlier usable
but you will still need the Ares legendary to make it actually good and worth the effort.
turbid needle
Every boon on the way to Hunting Blades is a DPS monster.
wheat elbow
That is a vast overstatement.
turbid needle
I guess I could spend a few hours crunching numbers if I really cared to, but I'll just let the current WR using Deadly Flourish speak for that.
Hunting Blades also makes a shield run look high risk.
wheat elbow
A world record is a perfect alignment of circumstances in a hand of a capable player.
You will not get these circumstances constantly
turbid needle
Oh my god, are you still on this anecdotal garbage?
wheat elbow
and more often than not, in your attempt to grasp for these circumstzances, you find yourself disappointed.
turbid needle
I've had crap runs from literally every god.
wheat elbow
There is "anecdotal garbage" on one hand and "making an educated case for the very nature that is RNG in this game"
Artemis has an 18 Boon Pool with different directions and branches everywhere
turbid needle
That contribute to every other god.
wheat elbow
including boons that become useless if you want to go for Hunting Blades
They contribute to some less than others.
Aphrodite offers 13 boons, Artemis offers 18.
Smaller sample size means that you are less likely from getting an undesireble result from Aphrodite than Artemis.
Add to that that Aphrodite's boons are just better all across the board because they give you consistent damage buffs and a debuff right off the bat
whereas Artemis would force you to go through the RNG lottery a little bit more often.
One roll with Aphrodite = A fully established Ability vs Artemis needing two rolls to get an ability able to debuff you that is still tied down to RNG.
Also, Haelians 8:21 Minute Speedrun is the fastest I am aware of.
While he does use Artemis, there is no Hunting Blades involved.
native ether
They definitely dont only appear in Tartarus. (Timed Survival Rooms) I've gotten them in Elysium and Asphodel.
wheat elbow
What?
I never had a 45 second rush outside of Tartarus
Not even once in all my runs.
native ether
Lol I've gotten them in Elysium.
wheat elbow
Thanatos yes
There are rooms where witches just keep spawning one after another
but they are no 45 survival rooms
native ether
I can't say if I've gotten them there specifically in the High Speed update, but definitely in the Beefy Update at least. I swear I've gotten one, and I know I've gotten them in Asphodel.
I could simply be remembering things from old versions of the game that aren't applicable anymore, but I know I've gotten them in more than Tartarus in the past.
wheat elbow
I have played this game for two months now, almost exactly to the day.
I can't say I remember having had one of those.
So yeah, maybe it was in older versions.
On the other hand, I usually avoid Darkness Reward rooms with a skull on the door emblem, always.
Maybe they are hidden behind those in Asphodel/Elysium
native ether
Very possible, I swear I've gotten them before, but its kind of hard to remember exactly when unfortunately (so its definitely possible)
wheat elbow
But in Tartarus, the 45 second rush can also be hidden behind regular rooms
native ether
Hunting Blades afaik requires 1 Artemis boon (Deadly Strike, Deadly Flourish, Hunter Dash, or Barbs of the Master Huntress) and the Ares cast boon, both of which aren't typically very hard to get. Honestly the bigger issue there is that Artemis has a very large boon pool, meaning your chance of getting Hunting Blades later on can be fairly difficult unless you take lots of Artemis rooms.
native ether
Do Duo boons work that way? Afaik only 1 god offers it
I've only ever gotten Low Tolerance from Aphrodite, never Dionysus
wheat elbow
Yes, you can get Duoboons from both gods as long as the prerequisites are met.
native ether
huh, the more you know
wheat elbow
The Duoboon I have gotten the most by far is the Aphrodite/Dionysus Duoboon
(Goes to show how valuable that Aphrodite Consistency is)
Dionysus Pool is pretty big as well
but he has much more generally useful passives and all of his attacks are strong, reliable and capable on their own
so it isn't as much of a glaring issue than it is with Artemis imo.
Actually
No, I lied
15 Boons in his pool
That is fairly average.
Ares has 15 as well but one more duo boon
Poseidon has 13 Boons like Aphrodite, but he is still less consistent than her because he only has 1 Duo boon and Sunken Tressure which can easily ruin your gets from him in the long run.
Well.
That and a lot of dysfunctional boons in general :3
I checked all the gods, Artemis really is the one goddess that has the highest amounts of boons atm. Most are between 13 to 15, Athena having 16 being an outlier as well.
native ether
This issue can usually be dodged by taking the Ares Blood Vial in Tartarus, getting your slicing shot, (and hopefully getting lucky that you get an Artemis boon in Tartarus as well) and then taking the Adamant Arrowhead in Asphodel (or you could reverse it, in fact reversing it likely makes it easier to specifically get Hunting Blades to show because I'm pretty sure Ares' boon pool is smaller)
Not to mention ofc that Artemis and Ares are not bad choices for god boons in general tbh. Crit chance is always still pretty good (in b4 ree rng, its triple damage on a 20% chance with a general damage increase as well. Sure its not what I would call "min-maxxed" but for your all around needs, it does its job just fine) and Doom effects are great burst damage doers (ntm combining it with Pressure Points can make it real nasty).
Not to mention if you're sinking lots of rooms into Artemis boons, you'll likely stumble upon something else that you can make work for you. (Burst Fire, Pressure Points, Marked, maybe Support Fire, and you wont be drawing Full Reload or Exit Wounds if you have the Ares Cast, so that removes some of the boon pool right there)
wheat elbow
As much as I love Ares atm, he can be a mediocre choice quite easily still.
His attack and special are amazing atm, but almost everything else he offers is mediocre unless you invest into him deeply.
Which still puts him into a league over Artemis and Zeus because they don't have these one hit wonders going for them
(although Artemis Wrath comes close)
I also think that going with Artemis first would be the better call.
Simply because her pool is bigger and you usually see more boons in Tartarus than Asphodel.
At least that's what it feels like for me.
native ether
If you go Ares first and take Slicing Shot you remove all of Artemis's cast boons from the pool
(Besides Fully Loaded and her Legendary/Burst Fire)
wheat elbow
That's a good point.
Meh, I just don't like the inconsistency and RNG that goes into making a good slicing shot run.
And even if you DO get slicing shot
at least to me, without Ares legendary, it still is mediocre.
native ether
which reduces your theoretical different boons from Artemis down to 12 (assuming you have no Athena or Zeus boons, and not counting the Legendary because that's surprisingly hard to get)
You also basically remove all of the "bad" boons if you get Slicing Shot first. The only boons left are ones that setup getting Hunting Blades, (attacks and wrath) Pressure Points (which with how the build works, is an amazing find), extra ammo, and extra crit chance and damage.
wheat elbow
If you substract duo boons, you have to do the same for all gods in the game.
Suddenly, Aphrodite only has 11 boons
We could take it further and also substract legendaries
native ether
ofc, by doing that you bring Ares down to 11 as well.
wheat elbow
Aphro 10, Ares 11, Artemis still 14
native ether
Which is why you take Ares first and bring it down to 12 and cut out those other 2 boons.
wheat elbow
Which is arguably even worse because now, the comparison is even less kind to Artemis
But yeah, I can see your point when it comes to hunting the duop boon
native ether
And being realistic, its not like you're being drawn from a list of 14 each time. That's not how the boons work
wheat elbow
Of course not
But you still have to play the run until you get what you desire.
And I don't want to build a run based on a first pick Slicing Shot.
Of questionable quality.
I mean
Let us take a different angle at this:
If you like high damage blade rift
and if you like to see them in your games
Going for Hunting Blades is the least consistent thing you can do overall.
Just go for a high damage blade rift dash run instead.
You can have that done within 3 Ares encounters while only having to exhaust one smaller god pool
instead of getting Artemis wrapped up in the mess
native ether
The dash blade rift effect is much shorter and harder to use on more mobile enemies.
wheat elbow
I don't find it particularly hard to use.
native ether
I will admit tho that thing is a god tier strength against Asterius.
He just runs into the thing lol
native ether
I hate dashing anywhere near Theseus tbh. Its very very very dangerous without the shield (and lol my opinion on the shield is already well known)
wheat elbow
Yeah, that is a good point.
I prefer to go buckwild on enemies, so I am okay with close range.
But yeah, it's easy to set up AND
has a lot of fun combos with Hermes
Passing through + a strong blade rift is just hilarious.
Or 1-3 extra dashes
Faster casts for Slicing Shot can be decent too, but imo, it does not coimpare
tacit rover
I only ever use sword so I have to get close to Theseus. I just dash circles around him and it usually works lol
wheat elbow
Dash Attacks are just great in general. Especially against Bosses.
You can beat the entire game using nothing but dashes.
I actually did that once.
Even uploaded a video of that on youtube.
tacit rover
Yup! I got an insane 5 dash boon from Hermes last run and it was so much fun
wheat elbow
I hope that after seeing your post in #hades-feedback , the devs won't be including anything like sunken treasure or less trap damage to Aphrodite.
native ether
Theseus is pretty risky to get close to given that spin attack can hit you multiple times and its harder to dodge the spear if you're right on top of him. I've done it but I prefer to be at mid range with a nearby pillar.
I actually like Sunken Treasure lol
wheat elbow
I don't.
Almost always feels like a waste
and it appears multiple times.
It's the worst
native ether
I just wish its effects were better, but I only ever go for it if I'm being forced to tbh.
wheat elbow
on the sadly worst god in the game atm
native ether
On that we can agree I do think Poseidon is the worst god in the game atm and that's just because bosses are immune to knockback
wheat elbow
There are a couple nuances to his terribleness.
- Enemies being immune to knockback and thus making a lot of Poseidons boons useless.
- Poseidon only having one Duo Boon.
- Said Duoboon not even working properly.
- Sunken treasure being one of the worst rewards a god can offer you (repeadedly so)
native ether
I dont even think its cause you're missing out on damage. What I love about Poseidon is I can reliably put space between myself and enemies with his boons. I can't do that in a boss fight.
wheat elbow
And 5. Rooms in Asphodel and Elysium being so spacious that the knockback becomes a nuisance instead of a boon.
Also, the knock backs are not reliable in putting space up either.
It has happened to me plenty of times that the knockbacks actually shoved enemies into attacking range.
Especially the Tidal Dash is AMAZING at shoving enemies into the same direction you are dashing.
A lot of wretched thugs have gtotten good hits in on me thanks to that.
wheat elbow
I agree.
native ether
The main reason I like Sunken Treasure is more so that I don't potentially have a knockback effect in one of my attacks that messes my build up tbh.
Its effectively a reliably appearing "out" if you get forced into a Poseidon boon
wheat elbow
Yes, but
"Taking it so I don't have to take anything else from this god" is an issue all by itself.
wheat elbow
And yeah, the knock backs can actually become a gameplay detriment quite easily.
Some weapons become borderline unplayable with his boons.
Spear + Poseidon Attack? Now that's a gold experience.
Spear + Poseidon special? The special was useless before anyway.
(Spear Special Multi Skewer + Poseidon Special is HILARIOUS for roomclear though)
native ether
but yeah tldr Hunting Blades is overrated because its good, its actually not quite as hard to get as it seems it would be, and because there are a couple videos showing off how stupidly effective it is (pre and post nerf) (There was like a sub 30 seconds Theseus fight with just hunting blades and extra cast ammo)
wheat elbow
I mean, yeah, I had a 30 second figjht with that as well and it was awesome when it happened.
wheat elbow
You know what I'd like for the shield?
A hammer boon that makes the special a more interesting ability to use simply for the purpose of range damage.
Explosive return is melee exclusive, the one that just makes it bounce more often is just more spread damage and miraculous flight just enables you to weave it in every now and then.
twilit hornet
Fyi for you Poseidon haters, you're supposed to play that boon with the knockback in mind. Essentially you bring mobs to walls and corners and then repeatedly shove them into them for the bonus damage. If you are in the middle of the room and getting annoyed at how far mobs are travelling, you are doing it wrong. Regarding bosses, the Poseidon boons do typically do more damage than the others and building your kit out should have boss fights in mind.
What I do agree with though is that Sunken Treasure can really feel lack luster. I also think the Poseidon Wrath is by far the worst in the game because it actually feels kinda slow to move around with.
With that said, I do AVOID Poseidon boons not because I dislike the shove boons, but because sunken treasure and wrath arent attractive to me at all.
ember lotus
I love Poseidon outside of boss rooms. It's weapon dependent, but on shield dash attacks, spear charge attacks, and sword special attacks Poseidon kind of trivializes things. I feel like the trade off here on boss rooms isn't entirely unintentional
wheat elbow
Well, Hippy, the joke's on you, I love Poseidons Wrath effect and think it is one of the better ones in the game.
trim ingot
Maybe it's just difficult to control on keyboard
I can only hit a single target 3 ish times in one charge
wheat elbow
I play on keyboard/mouse as well and have no problems navigating it
I do have troubles hitting one target 3 times because most of the time, hitting once or twice does the job and kills a fool.
pseudo ocean
If Tidal Dash is still knocking foes into attack range and causing you to get hit as soon as the dash animation ends, please put #hades-feedback in for it. This was supposed to have been fixed in the Hermes patch, but perhaps it still needs tweaking.
stable oyster
Everyone is constantly underestimating wall slam damage
wheat elbow
Nobody is underestimating Wall Slam Damage
everyone is missing wall slam damage during boss fights
(among other things)
I haven't used Tidal Dash all that much during the current update, maybe it actually isn't terrible anymore.
Truth be told, I haven't seen an awful lot of Poseidon in gneeral these last few weeks.
The guy makes himself a bit rare.
stable oyster
Dash is good if your weapon can follow up
wheat elbow
I like Tidal Dash on the Spear, surprisingly enough.
stable oyster
You can use it like a combo extension as well as a clear
wheat elbow
Charge Attack + Dash works nicely because it connects both hits
stable oyster
Yea same it lets you combo longer while clearing other mobs
native ether
No one is underestimating wall slam damage. It's great. It's just unfortunate that the most dangerous enemies in the game are entirely immune to knockback, making broseidon useless in the most dangerous fights. Rupture damage is incredibly weak on them considering the damage is also applied to the shove.
And he lacks enough Duo boons for me to find good runs to build him around.
The trade-off isn't nearly as worth it when I can take something that affects all enemies equally.
(tldr, there's no time I can think of where I've actually gone "hey I could really use a Poiseidon boon here")
rugged apex
having to consider positioning more than you already do to max out wall slam damage/not push enemies out of range means nobody takes poseidon if they're not doing a posei run and have any other choices. this is probably a slight exaggeration, but like. it's usually not worth it.
raven niche
Sounds like Poseidon needs some lurv. =/
rugged apex
...basically what I'm getting at is poseidon has a downside in a way most of the other gods don't
(zeus and dionysus sort of have one, where they're a bit more effective with certain weapons/hammers and weaker without them, but this is less visibly a downside)
native ether
What Poseidon could really use is:
- Something to account for the fact that bosses take no knockback and thus cant be wall slammed (perhaps just flat out extra damage?)
- More Duo boons so there are more gods you can combo with him, because rarely are you running just 1 god's boons.
- A way to make Sunken Treasure less annoying to people who are trying to make dedicated ocean boi builds.
All boons with the exception of a couple are good on only some weapons and bad on others (glares at Athena and Aphrodite in "you work in all situations")
wheat elbow
Athena isn't even in "works in all situations" territory for me.
Athena needs specific builds and/or dedication
trim ingot
imagine.... permanent sunken treasure that doles out stuff continuously?
too much, probably
wheat elbow
Depends on the stuff I'd say.
It could give you small money drops every other room
10 to 20 Obols after a clear
green birch
There’s a different boon for that haha
vast robin
Anyone have a tip for the room in the third biome that has the big pink orb shooting butterflies that has armor while it's also spawning a ton of eyeballs that pick up the weapons in the room? I always end up tanking a ton of hits due to the amount of things on screen at once.
placid silo
I just rush and kill the orb as fast as I can. The souls won't stop spawning when it's still alive and when there are weapons
If the souls are close enough, you can kill them, but focus on the orb
vast robin
What builds do people recommend with the sword?
atomic panther
OwO
Might I suggest. World Splitter
As for gods, Artemis and Athena are probably the best for World Splitter, but if you're going for a special build Poseidon and Ares also work wonders
vast robin
I like taking the Aphrodite item to get the shotgun cast upgrade
atomic panther
That's also fun, yeah
vast robin
And once I got the Aphrodite/Ares duo where any weak enemy keeps getting hit by the doom damage
atomic panther
That boon is fantastic
wheat elbow
I try to kill the knubs as I kill the big soul catcher, but I usually do not go out of my way for that.
Only exception is the shield directly in front of the catcher.
That one I guard very carefully.
Also the one with the spear.
If you just burst down to your hearts content while keeping those from spawning, you'll have yourself a gold experience
vast robin
Also anyone have any tips for the third area boss? I feel like I'm moving around too much and should instead focus on timing my dodges between the minotaur and spear throws. It also feels like that boss has a lot of HP.
wheat elbow
Watch out for the spear throw of Theseus. He telegraphs it with animation and a charge up noise. Make sure to avoid that because it hurts like a truck.
At 50%, he will invoke the wrath of one god you haven't seen in that run.
Keep an eye on the gods you have met so you can be prepared
atomic panther
They do have a lot of health, yeah. I'd suggest focusing Theseus first, and focus on learning the timing of his attacks. Asterius is easy enough to dodge, as he won't path around Theseus (and bonks into him) and his swings are fairly slow before his 50% health phase shift. Theseus drops his shield immediately before, during, and immediately after his spin dash, so those are the prime moments to damage him (with ranged attacks during, that spin deals a lot). He also tends to walk towards Asterius after some of his attacks, and while he's walking you can get a few good hits in.
And yes, that's a nice way to get an edge up on the latter half of the fight
With Sword, if you have Athena on your special, you can deflect the spear throw rather easily (the hitbox for your special deflect lasts a very long time) and he can't attack until he calls it back, so you have some more time to wail on him
misty rover
Lil question, how do you use Gauge abilities
It is impossible to fill the meter in the encounters
At least dping basic attacks
finite grail
there’s some boons which start it higher but it also builds from taking damage. You’ll use it more in boss battles too
basically for the most part I’ve found it’s there to save you when you need it
misty rover
hmmm I see
It doesn't convince me too much tbh, it is like you have an useless ability because you can't use 90% of the time , because it also resets itself when finishing a room (that and the fact it fills incredibly slow).
I genuinely feel I'm doing something wrong or the ability doesn't work properly.
Maybe you can fill it faster using other weapons idk
finite grail
maybe, haven’t really tested, though I think if you can’t earn it in a room getting the same amount but faster might not help
Idk how it’s tracked tho
wheat elbow
On low heat runs, you usually only use Wrath effects on boss fights and/or later rooms.
On heated runs, depending on the picks you make, you will face more enemies that may also be more tanky. That will make Wrath effects better by having them become active more regularly.
misty rover
Ok ok I see
wheat elbow
You get your gauge charged by taking damage as well as dealing damage. I also believe that the gains are dependend on your own HP, but I never went indepth in that regard.
misty rover
Alright thanks
native ether
I feel like it's based on "percent of total hp lost" but I haven't tested it.
It's just if it wasn't that, it would make Wrath way more powerful if you built lots of health.
rugged apex
I believe it's flat based on damage dealt/recieved - somewhere around 100 damage dealt to 1% wrath charge?
wheat elbow
I agree, I also think it's based on percentages. Remember when I had that fun run where I had the Chaos curse punishing me for dashing? While that could not kill me and kept me at 1 percent, each and every dash would give me a lot of wrath points even though the damage was only 4.
steel vault
Kinda off topic but...how'd you make screenshots? Neither F12 or PrintScreen worked for me
lost rose
Screenshot should be F11
steel vault
Ahh great! Thanks a lot xD
native ether
It is also now a personal mission of mine to make a high speed meme run montage
I just finished a run with 70% speed
it was glorious
wheat elbow
High Speed = Lambent Plume as high as possible, two 20% MS Boosts from Wells (which only last for 3 rooms), epic Mercury Boon for 40% increased movement speed and the 100% MS boon after a dash
Accumulate all that and you will go super fast
pastel jolt
at that point you should just paint zagreus blue
placid silo
What strategy for Erebus rooms do you recommend during heat runs?
Currently trying a 120 heat run 😅
turbid needle
Don't even look in the center, just stick to the perimeter.
Don't stop moving, either. Even if they start to pincer you, two dashes is almost always enough to get to the other side of a group.
rare relic
I have a question about the pierced butterfly and the trinket Hermes gives. Does their effects last even if I change the trinket midrun?
turbid needle
No.
turbid needle
np
wheat elbow
I feel like we need stickys for that question
placid silo
Wow, I was so close to finishing the 120 heat run
I've defeated Theseus and had Asterius close to a quarter health, but then the bloody chariot decided to reandomly rush at me and kill me
That's the farthest I've gone
lost rose
Wow, congrats on getting so far! Must have been a hell of a run
placid silo
I haven't saved a screenshot, but I remember (it was a shield run) having Zeus' attack, Aphro's dash, Artemis' wrath and both DD boons from Athena
wheat elbow
What pacts?
Also, yeah, Chariots can be random like that
Ain't doing anything and then they will deal half your health in one fell swoop
placid silo
Same as your first 120 heat clear video
Also I'm repeating it again
In Erebus to get a good Hermes boon, only unarmoured thugs, which is alright
My game then decides to freeze and one of them hits me -_-
placid silo
Can't wait
@wheat elbow Up for a race, who finishes the fourth biome on 120 heat first?
wheat elbow
Mate
Let us wait if beating it at that even will be a requirement for a statue 😄
Or anything, for that matter.
I believe that the game will demand 100 Heat for accessing challenge rooms in the fourth Biome by default, for starters.
placid silo
Logically speaking, yes
wheat elbow
if there are going to be achievements above that, I'd wager that'd would take 150 or more heat to get them
placid silo
Is 150 the cap in the pact?
wheat elbow
I mean, on the other hand
I think 120 heat was the highest requirement before they opened up Elysium too, wasn't it?
placid silo
Probably
placid silo
DeGrand, if I win that race, you owe me ambrosia, that a deal?
wheat elbow
You know what, sure, you're on.
First to a 120 heat run (or whatever else will be rewarded in some way) during the next update wins.
wheat elbow
I am just looking forward to that update so much
Less because of the biom actually, more because I want to see what changes they make to gods and weapons
placid silo
I'm just thinking what character will act as the biome's ||Sisyphus/Patroclus||
tawdry jackal
Im wondering, why Asphodel doesnt have an Area NPC?
it would interesting to see that guy that cant drink or eat
placid silo
Tantalus? Sounds interesting
green birch
tantalus would be interesting! he lives in tartarus tho so I don't think we'll get to see him 😦
placid silo
Yeah, same thought here
He could be a passerby you can talk to in the chambers with healing water in Tartarus
You go on and heal, while he's sitting in water and trying to catch the apple
tawdry jackal
this. perfect
tawdry jackal
I was expecting Skelly to reveal something mega ultra secret after I threw those ambrosia bottled at him
kinda disappointed
and curious
placid silo
Nobody really does anything special after you give them all the ambrosia youcan
except ||Orpheus, he starts singing||
native ether
I'm not into racing, but I'll just do it with the Rail again :kappa:
Intentionally using the not meta high heat weapon is my idea of fun
placid silo
So how about a 120 heat run with no mirror upgrades?
placid silo
The b word
tawdry jackal
oh, I was still writting
okay
thats how I got my first heat run
Butterfly
Triple Bomb
dont get hit
native ether
The rail is amazing if you're very skilled with it.
Most people for 120 tend to run the Shield because of that defensive utility.
Rail definitely has the best special in the game (fite me) with some amazing wave clear. Proper usage of the rail can be scarily effective, but imo it's the hardest weapon to get a feel for and to use.
Shield is probably next up just because of all the nuance and techs you can get with it
Every hammer upgrade on the rail is also good. There is literally not a single bad hammer upgrade for the rail (there's one meh one but it's only meh because it's alternative is way stronger)
Though on high heat, I'm fairly sure I'm the only person (at least publicly) who has beaten 120 heat with the Rail, so I wouldn't necessarily call it "good" for high heat. (If that's wrong though politely humble me :p)
trim ingot
If you're going special triple bomb build are you still using attack
Cause most hammer upgrades for the rail are attack upgrades wouldn't they be pretty useless
native ether
You should still use the attack to corral enemies into the special field
The rail applies what feels to be like a "movement reset" which each bullet, so you can effectively slow down (but not stun) an enemy with sustained primary fire
My preferred setup is Flurry Fire/Infinity Chamber and Explosive Fire. Your potential damage skyrockets, becomes AoE, and turns your fast primary into a wave of perma-stun
turbid needle
I don't like using Bombard as my primary damage. It's too easy for enemies to get out of range.
native ether
Yeah it requires proper prediction or corralling with the primary.
You can corral any enemy that isn't a boss or doesn't have some crazy movement ability (like a jump)
tawdry jackal
urgh, jumping enemies are the WROST when trying the Plume
Jumpers, Medusas, Pests
I hate everything that tries to run away from me intead of coming straigh to their deaths
turbid needle
I once had five or six elite Brimstones camping out over a lava lake in the middle of a Chamber when I had the sword and a really weak Cast.
I did not get a Pierced Butterfly proc in that room.
native ether
Plume is great in Tartarus but enemies are too fast and rooms are too big in the latter 2 biomes that rarely do you get a room under 30 seconds
At least in my opinion
It doesn't help that the Megagorgon's AI is infuriating and it runs away whenever you try to get close to it.
turbid needle
Only time I was able to consistently get Plume procs in Asphodel was with a Hunter Dash Dashing Wallop.
turbid needle
Thank you, Exit Wounds. I ran like a coward the last 45 seconds of the fight.
https://i.imgur.com/XCFquAT.png
native ether
"Artemis cast boons are bad" :kappa:
finite grail
for what it’s worth @wicked patrol, urns that contain gold are colored differently. Unless you’re talking about Dusa’s keepsake
native ether
There was a suggestion a long time ago to make the urns that Dusa's keepsake affected look/appear different. I think that would be really cool and help out that particular issue.
It would be kind of cute if they were like little green gorgon urns
median ridge
i think spread fire is my new favorite rail upgrade
tried it with three different god boons and it shreds with all of them. dio, artemis, and ares
native ether
Spread Fire is great, though personally the reduced attack speed and need to basically cram as many bullets into enemies as possible makes it not my favorite.
I used to use it for a long time, then I kinda realized that using it made me incredibly sloppy, taking lots of unnecessary damage
(it also doesnt stun, but if you get Explosive Shot that's a combo to behold right there)
wheat elbow
The hitbox feels a bit weird at times
But that is a problem I have with all ranged weapons
turbid needle
Yeah, it's a problem that exists with all ranged weapons. But the Heavy Slug is probably best with Artemis or Poseidon. It's got the kind of monster base damage that those two work best with, and it doesn't suffer from Tidal Strike unlike most weapon attacks.
I found out that Hunter Dash synergizes REALLY well with Spread Fire.
native ether
Heavy Slug's is neat but imo you want to be running a base damage increaser, like a thanatos or chaos boon with it
Also it works great with Ares. Heavy Slug would likely work pretty well in a Curse of Longing build.
But other than that yeah, a Poseidon or Artemis boon on the primary would work best simply for the massive damage increase.
Even though I don't personally recommend Poseidon because its very hard to get Poseidon to synergize with the special seeing as it knocks everything around everywhere, which you'll be using a lot more of if you only get 1 shot
wheat elbow
I would not use Poseidon with the Rail at all if I can avoid it.
It usually ends up pushing out enemies out of your Special zone
wicked patrol
@finite grail yes dusa included
median ridge
explosive spreadfire is absolutely beautiful to behold
wheat elbow
It's pretty neat, yes
placid silo
DeGrand, I've just watched your latest video
Had the same weird Greatshield dash happen in my previous run
tacit rover
legitimate question...how is one supposed to dodge (?)/deal with the smaller chariot mobs, the flame wheels?
native ether
avoid them tbh or poke them down at range
I dont advise trying to melee them because with armor they wont get stunned and will just blow up
native ether
They also blow up on their own, they have a bit of a fuse to them
so you can run down the fuse and kite them into walls/traps/pillars to get them
you can use the Nova too, Nova works on them pretty decently
tacit rover
i've encountered rooms where they spawn endlessly and playing with a melee weapon and eventually even if i kite onto traps im almost always bound to take the damage of a few
it works until they have armor :(
native ether
yeah, I recommend with the sword getting a good ranged option to deal with them (Artemis Wrath/Cast, Aphro/Dio/Zeus Cast)
Ares Dash also works decently
tacit rover
thank you, I'll keep those in mind for my next run
I don't usually take ares dash just because its not really my favorite and can be awkward to use
but yea i can see why it working on the flame wheel issue
wheat elbow
@placid silo Yeah man, that was super weird. Was a first for me!
Also, regarding the flame wheels, Athenas boons seem to do a decent job at giving you some invincibility frames at the right time.
Passing Through from Hermes helps keep them in place.
Casts exist as well of course.
placid silo
I think it's to do with them dashing through corners and stuff
I remember once having a spearhead jump into a place you can't enter, and he wasn't able to escape
native ether
in general though yeah, those guys just arent easy to kill with melee
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, I had that happen as well.
Also, sometimes, Knubs get stuck in awkward spots, behind spear statue traps for example
wheat elbow
For as much of a hard time I give Artemis about her inconsistency
when she does pop off, she pops off
"Little else", he says.
trim ingot
eat my bloodstones theseus
wheat elbow
He did that too, but that crit was actually a bloodstone being.....
...."reverse eaten"?
What that screen shot doesn't show is the sheer number of Casts I had
tawdry jackal
ohh, whats your youtube channel @wheat elbow ?
also, how do I use Artmis Wratch effectively?
trim ingot
Artemis wrath you gotta dash far away then activate for that damage bonus
wheat elbow
There seems to be a max distance though. Sometimes I am super far away from the enemies and the projectiles just do othing
native ether
I'd get like 2 dashes away from an enemy and drop it. That seems to be a fairly effective range.
wheat elbow
Sounds pretty decent.
Regarding Artemis, I gotta give a bit of credit where it is due
I believe that she is arguably the goddess with the highest DPS ceiling if all you will ever get are her own boons
Probably followed by Ares and/or Zeus
But realising her full potencial demands of you that you go superhard on literally everything she has to offer
minus her legendary because that one is just weird.
turbid needle
That's just not true.
She contributes to virtually any build with only one or two boons.
trim ingot
things heating up again in the artemis fandom
turbid needle
Anyone know how Pulverizing Blow (double Shield attack) and Tidal Strike interact?
Will I get two hits off before knockback takes them out of range?
It does not, RIP.
wheat elbow
I rarely if ever take pulverizing blow, so I wouldn't know.
And if you want your Artemis to matter with only one or two boons, you need to get very specific boons and/or combinations to make it work.
Otherwise -> Mediocrisy City
native ether
Legendary is god tier on anything fast
On the rail it's double damage
Artemis has lots of boons but lots of good combos to work with
wheat elbow
I don't know.
It is of course the most visually pleasing legendary by far.
These projectiles look amazing.
Compared to the damage potencial of, say, Dionysus' or Ares' legendary, it pales somewhat fiercly.
native ether
Dio's legendary requires running both Festive Fog and Poison, which isn't something you often do.
Since on casts I typically prefer running something like Aphro/Artemis/Poseidon
Ares is good though again requires you to be using Blade Rifts, which can be harder to use on casts at least
Support Fire is good if you attack fast/special fast. So great on a weapon like the Rail, poor on something like the Shield.
wheat elbow
The shield attacks super fast, so support fire is still decent on the shield
but not as ridiculous as the others I mentioned.
Dios Legendary is a flat 100% damage increase in almost every situation once you get it
And that damage affects EVERYTHING
Ares' legendary can reach ridiculous heights.
I have seen ticks worth 200 damage
turbid needle
I've had Black Out maybe spawn once or twice.
wheat elbow
Honestly, I did not have it all that often myself either
mostly because there are usually better and generally more useful things Dionysus offers
but I am always delighted when I do get it.
Even more so if Zeus is also involved
native ether
Black Out's issue is it requires you to go full on ham Dionysus, it requires not only a level 2 poison boon but the Tipsy Shot as well. It requires 3 boons instead of the typical 2.
Artemis requires just a Tier 2 crit effect
wheat elbow
Yeah, but the two legendaries also simply don't compare.
native ether
In terms of damage? Yeah the Dio one is insane but requires way more prep and focus. Artemis's is weaker but a way faster find.
Which feels entirely fair. I don't find myself running Black Out often just because I don't run Dio casts often.
wheat elbow
How does Aphrodites Legendary actively killing you fit into that equation then?
She is very easy to get too.
wheat elbow
Because it fits into the topic.
turbid needle
Artemis is a direct damage up.
wheat elbow
Her legendary is the easiest to get in the game.
wheat elbow
One of her attacking options which are all among the best in the game, one boon that makes them even better and then you can have the legendary,
turbid needle
So skip the Legendary if it comes up.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
wheat elbow
If effort/risk is being used as a factor for gauging how strong a legendary should be, Aphrodites legendary actively killing actually fits
for how easy it is to get.
native ether
I mean I feel like all legendaries should be equally challenging to get and with equal strength
wheat elbow
A good start for that would be having all gods have the same amount of boons and the same "structure" in their pools.
native ether
I don't use Black Out not because it's bad. I don't use it because I don't find it prudent to basically run a full Dio build when you get more damage out of running a more 2/3 god based setup. The extra effort it takes makes it not worth it for me, as good as it is.
wheat elbow
I can see where you are coming from, but it should be said that Dio has so much of everything in his kit that you can easily split his kit in half and create a new god out of it
native ether
I like Artemis because it shows up without me having to specialize in her boons. Get her 4-5 times and boom that's it, double your Rail damage or greatly amplify your other damage.
And I get her so much it doesn't feel like it's an issue to get her 4-5 times, and I find her generally useful already, so I don't typically say no to Artemis boons.
She provides a lot of free damage boons so it's rarely a bad idea to just grab her boons if you're already well established. Exit Wounds, Extra Casts, Quick Reload are just all "lol do more cast damage"
wheat elbow
I mean, let's be real here
almost all gods excel if you get 4-5 boons out of them
Ares with that many boons is huge, so is Zeus
Artemis as you have mentioned
Dionysus too
Aphrodite less so, mostly because she has all that is good covered in 1-3 boons
Problem is that you do not see said gods that consistently.
Oh yeah, that reminds me
Last run I uploaded
I got sunken treasure
Three times!
native ether
Oh ofc, i think it's more than I find Artemis's effects generally useful in any situation. Everything she gives is just more damage, even if you're not building around her, I'll never say no to more cast ammo, pressure points, or exit wounds
turbid needle
^
Pressure Points and Full Reload are top tier, unquestionably.
Pressure Points especially because there is literally no condition you need to fill, it's just a free DPS upgrade.
wheat elbow
I say no to more cast ammo all the time because there are plenty of times where they are just wasted.
Exit wounds needs to be at least rare for being useful.
Pressure Points + Marked is great of course
But that is when the whole inconsistency topic comes up against. Getting that sometimes just does not occur.
Those two boons also don't open up a lot of duo boon options if memory serves.
No Hunting Blades at the very least
native ether
Getting extra damage at all is always useful tbh. Exit Wounds is free damage at any rank. Sure it's better the more it is, but damage is damage.
wheat elbow
It's not free damage because it means that you use a cast where you would have done something else instead.
Common Exit wounds usually means 150 damage for me.
225 if Priv status is active.
Depending on the run, there is a good chance that while I cast and the projectile is flying, I can deal that same damage in the same time if not more.
native ether
You're telling me you don't just spam your casts off cooldown cause I do
turbid needle
^
native ether
Like if I'm not doing anything else more important, throw cast
turbid needle
Had a weak build before Elysium on a run earlier and spamming six Epic Burst Fire standard Bloodstones carried me through Asphodel.
wheat elbow
I don't.
Again, most cases, I have better things to do.
Hell, especially on frenzied runs, a cast can end up getting you hit supereasily.
native ether
Hades isn't a game that feels like there's an effective "maximum ideal amount" of damage to do. In almost every case, enemy health is high enough that if I'm getting damage out of something, it's good because it helps me kill things faster.
wheat elbow
It is not only damage that you give up.
native ether
This is one of the reasons I don't run Frenzy :p
wheat elbow
It's also mobility.
You like the rail, so you have next to no mobility in the first place
and I agree on the rail, with it, I use my casts all the time
simply because they are a convenient way to confirm the special
native ether
This is also why I don't use casts at melee range. Using a cast while close to something where you're easily vulnerable is kinda silly
wheat elbow
But for most other weapons?
Why would I cast when I can just bumrush enemies into the wall
As an example.
native ether
Extra Boiling Blood proc to start a fight?
wheat elbow
If you have it, sure.
native ether
Like just toss it before you super saiyan dash in
wheat elbow
I don't have it on Stifling Darkness runs
Like, don't get me wrongt
I know that there is a lot of potencial in that stuff.
Watch my latest video, I had exit wounds crit for 1350 damage
But that situation is an outlier, not the rule.
turbid needle
Getting Low Tolerance is an outlier.
Do you know how many runs I've gone for two boon set-ups that haven't happened?
Even with the forced Keepsake spawn.
wheat elbow
Same for me.
I have been going through entire biomes without meeting the god whoms keepsake I was holding.
native ether
Okay sure but it's not like everyone is running Stifling Darkness all the time, nor is that the traditional level of the game. Sure with certain limitations things become worse, but I don't know if it's necessarily... I don't know prudent?... To balance the game around things like Stifling or Frenzy. Those are in the end external extra challenges which don't affect what I would call a "standard player experience"
turbid needle
^
turbid needle
Normal difficulty through credits.
Which would be no Pact.
Some Mirror, probably not all of Fated Authority.
wheat elbow
If I go with isaac as an example, playing the game on hard mode quickly becomes the norm.
I expect Hades to become the same over time.
Not standard 120 heat, but something along the lines of 25-100 heat so that you can use all challenge rooms becoming a baseline for most
native ether
Ofc, it's not like things don't change. At the moment though, usage of the pact acts simply as nothing besides an external way to add extra challenge to the game. I would expect most players not to use the Pact or Heat, and most of the people I know who casually play the game do not, at least now (some of them haven't even beaten Theseus)
If the pact is made more streamlined and offers more into the game, then sure I'd say Pact usage would be expected.
wheat elbow
And if you go into that territory, Stifling Darkness becomes a very attractive choice.
I'm gonna be real with you, I have played the game often enough that I think that it does not really matter what you do if there is no heat in your run.
turbid needle
So you admit you've played enough to have just about mastered the "baseline" experience?
wheat elbow
Almost everything works out one way or another and the game isn't giving you a hard time after an initial learning curve + getting some upgrades from the mirror
turbid needle
You're good enough to go streaking on a whim?
That's not the standard player experience.
turbid needle
So why do you think your expectations fit the game's intended balance?
wheat elbow
Because I am the standard one will reach once he/she has spend more time with the game while wanting to constantly challenge thyself and/or get out everything of the game that it has to offer.
turbid needle
Not everyone will play as much as we have.
wheat elbow
And after a certain point in difficulty, just throwing out cast leisurely will hurt you.
turbid needle
A very small percentage of players will play as much as we have.
If you approach ANYTHING in this game leisurely it will hurt you.
I've eaten runs with huge Low Tolerance stacks because I was being careless.
native ether
I mean I could very easily meme run and pick the worst things actively and likely still win, but I seriously doubt that would be the majority of player's experiences just because most people haven't sunk 40-60 hours into this game.
I definitely think playing as much as we do will actually be the exception, not the norm. A good example is Dead Cells, where lots of content is in the 3rd/4th/5th Cell Modes, but barely a fraction of players actually play those modes.
wheat elbow
Can't talk about Death Cells, never played that.
Also, 40 to 60 hours are quickly accumulated.
native ether
That's actually what I dislike the most about Dead Cells. A good quarter of its content is for the top 10% of players.
Definitely recommend it, very fun Roguelike. (Sorry for the ad)
I do feel though that Hades (at least atm) is being balanced around a standard run with no heat. I'm sure that might change later on, but I think the expected player experience right now is that the pact is entirely optional.
wheat elbow
Oh, absolutely.
lost rose
The folks who are active on this server are definitely a very specific subset of players
wheat elbow
I am not willing nor able to believe that the devs are fine with how high heated runs are behaving right now.
lost rose
It takes a certain kind of person to not only run it as aggressively as a lot of folks here but to also want to talk exhaustively about builds/meta
I wouldn't argue that's particularly standard.
wheat elbow
Especially in terms of Frenzy and Tenebrous Veil
lost rose
But being here can definitely give a skewed impression of the player base!
sacred swallow
i'm running 75 skulls pact .. having a blast .. just won my 3rd streak game
lost rose
Congrats!
native ether
I'm sure they're not happy with it, more that it's just not the focus of the development. I'm sure once the game structure is more in place, adding renewability will be the focus.
wheat elbow
@lost rose I mean, I am looking at it from this point of view.
PearUhDox says that he uses his cast on cooldown and considers that to be good.
I disagree with him.
He argues that for regular runs, it doesn't matter
which is not wrong
but doesn't make the practise good either.
lost rose
That's fine! I'm just saying that there's a wide variety of player experiences and what you hear/see here is only representative of a pretty small portion, so it's hard to argue "objectively" about balance from that perspective
native ether
I also think it's super important to remember that different weapons lead to entirely different playsets. Playing with the Sword or Shield? Yeah I don't spam casts, because it's dangerous to be that immobile while near enemies. With the Rail? As often as possible.
lost rose
The game's unfinished, and people should do what they enjoy
wheat elbow
I acknowledged that too.
I said somewhere above that the rail is the weapon I use the cast with the most.
Still not on cooldown though, only one at the time.
pastel jolt
there is no one right way to play the game and any argument that states there is a right way and a wrong way to play is inherently flawed
native ether
^ I'd strongly agree with that
They said using the rail on 120 heat was impractical
I sort of did it just to prove a point that it's not, just requires a want to.
wheat elbow
For most people, 120 heat means frenzy
mighty swan
lol what is difficulty i'm here to befriend everyone
wheat elbow
Which wasn't true for you.
You are one of the few people who finished the run with 500% Torment
Well, so am I.
Wait, am I?
Now I need to check
native ether
I don't think that's necessarily true. I don't have stats on people who run what pact options (none of us do, so it's hard to assume that)
The only way to know that would be a poll and even then not everyone is in this discord.
I'm honestly sure there's people who beat it with Veil
native ether
I do personally think there's no right or wrong way to play the game though lol, and that kind of makes me dislike the idea of running a "meta" build (though I do agree Aphro is insanely easy to get value out of almost all the time, cementing her as a very strong pick. If that means meta for you, then sure)
I also personally really dislike playing the same run over and over. I'd rip my hair out if I used Aphro each time.
wheat elbow
I only take her keepsake for torment attemtsor if I have gods that work well with her in Asphodel.
native ether
I'm in general also someone who hates meta. I spent 2 years playing Sombra in overwatch when people complained that she wasn't meta, just because I dislike the idea of finding 1 specific optimal way to play a game when the whole purpose of a game for me is to experiment, find new strategies, and not repeatedly play the same way.
wheat elbow
That aside, I usually just grab my coin purse at first and see where a run carries me.
Also, I never really discussed Meta, if anything, almost everything I say is being disagreed with by someone.
Athena and Artemis are everybodies darlings, yet I consider both of them inconsistent and kontext dependend with a lot of flaws
while others celebrate them and everything they do.
Last patch, everyone was riding Ares like crazy because HUNTING BLADE OP! while I was just avoiding him like the plague because he was terrible
turbid needle
Hunting Blades are OP.
wheat elbow
Maybe, but not OP enough to excuse that everything Ares had sucked.
pastel jolt
in your opinion
wheat elbow
Exactly the point.
Of course I am entitled to believing that every word I say is oozing wisdom and intelligence, as are most people.
turbid needle
Hunting Blades are objectively high damaging (in the context even of Heated Runs) and extremely safe given they are fire-and-forget.
Doom sucking is an opinion.
They should be powerful, it requires 3 instances of favorable RNG.
turbid needle
He was worth taking when all he had was Hunting Blades.
wheat elbow
Anyone remembering what his ultimate was doing?
His old legendary, I mean.
His old legendary was amazing as a case study for everything that was wrong and bad about Ares.
Comparing his current incarnation to set past self is a huge difference.
For the better.
turbid needle
Hunting Blades, his still best effect, didn't change between Beefy and High Speed.
wheat elbow
Except that Hunting Blades is not "his" best effect.
turbid needle
He is absolutely much better now, but it was bringing everything else back in line.
wheat elbow
His legendary is, by far.
turbid needle
Daedelus Hammers for the shield are really annoying when it's all Bull Rush upgrades and I don't use it at all.
wheat elbow
In the beefy update, that is when he sucked.
turbid needle
Arguably.
wheat elbow
@turbid needle Check #self-promotion
The last video I posted there has the entire blade rift engine on the dash
That run was super strong towards the end
and it frustrated me on so many levels.
- A run where I get sunken tresure 3 times has no right to be that strong
- I wanted the run to be a terrible Poseidon Bow run
then Artemis kept appearing like crazy and gave me everything
Which she never does when I am actually going for it
native ether
Also a duo boon with Ares is his effect, he drops it. Sure it's not just his but it feels silly to be overly specific. He drops it.
wheat elbow
You still need somethjing from Artemis on top of that
which in turns affects your playstyle and other god choices.
native ether
And it's a great effect, still dare I say contends for best or one of the best duo boons in the game
wheat elbow
Really, to me, it is much less a question of it being good, it just feels convenient to play
Also, I need to sleep
It's late here in germany.
I will see you guys later.
turbid needle
I didn't see Vicious Cycle in that run.
native ether
i mean hunting blades is good because it takes the most consistent issue with blade casts (hard to aim and get value of with faster enemies) and effectively removes it entirely
wheat elbow
@turbid needle Excuse me, made a mistake.
That was another run that I recorded yesterday too.
Thought it was the one I uploaded.
turbid needle
I got Blade Rift Vicious Cycle and it was pretty nasty.
It's pretty good with Ares' Wrath as well.
wheat elbow
That's true, but that would mean taking Ares' Wrath.
Not a fan of that.
So, the blade rift vicious cycle was in the video where I got 3 sunken treasures
Should be uploading it later.
Was a 31 seconds or so bossfight
felt like Theseus and Asterius were spending half of that impervious.
placid silo
I got a boon from Chaos, that makes more enemies spawn, and I got two gorgonhead minibosses without the skullcrusher lol
icy edge
120 is brutal, I dont want to go with stifling darkness, so I have to choose between frenzy and veil
wheat elbow
I actually dislike the pact debuffs that make enemies spawn more often and makes them more durable quite a bit.
Turns the game that could be a sprint into a marathon and that is such a slog
If you then also have stifling darkness effectively nerfing your damage to the ground by giving you mostly comon boons all game, it's a bad scene to behold
wheat elbow
@turbid needle Uploaded the run with the Vicious Cycle
Got slightly salted over sunken treasure in that one.
pastel jolt
@quiet ledge Successive Hit Damage: 25%
quiet ledge
What if it's "All successive hits are 25%dmg of the original one that started it"
pastel jolt
that seems awkwardly verbose
turbid needle
You do.
robust garden
and i still haven't got mine
turbid needle
Maybe it's in the shop?
wheat elbow
Sometimes I don't get my first hammer in Tartarus either.
robust garden
yea your first is either tartarus or asphodel
wheat elbow
Sometimes I don't see a second hammer in Elysium either and/or decide to not take it for a while
turbid needle
Hammer can appear multiple times in Elysium.
It's just almost never skipped because each hammer is such an upgrade.
native ether
First Hammer is almost always in Tartarus, though very rarely you'll get it in Asphodel. Second Hammer is typically the first door in Elysium, but its not guaranteed. You'll likely at least see it once before the shop at Theseus, and if you don't take it, that's where it'll be.
In practice, I never recommend skipping hammers. They're huge buffs and major playstyle changes, and skipping one often means it could end up spawning in a less favorable condition (such as in a shop, or such as in a later area where you'd rather take a different upgrade instead)
Its possible to miss hammers entirely, but the game does make that very hard to do. (Its much easier to miss the 2nd one, as the end of Elysium will definitely sneak up on you, so I don't recommend passing it)
wheat elbow
It's almost always true but there are situations where a certain god boon is offered at the same time that has the potencial to be much more transformative for your run than a potencial hammer boon could be.
pastel jolt
i did have a run once where both my hammers were in elysium
wheat elbow
Then there is the factor of the hammer being much more likely to show up again than the god whoms boon you desire.
If I play the Shield for example, the hammer boons I am mostly interested in are almost always Mirage Flight and Dashing Wallop.
Both are nice to have but no necessities.
If I have a chance to instead meet a god who can give me a status for priv status, a legendary or a duo boon that I want, I'd rather go for that.
native ether
Think there's also a difference in weapon types. Hammers on something like the shield are less dramatic than on the Rail, where Hammers should always be your priority, because the Rail hammers are borderline op (they not only increase your damage output but give so much quality of life to the thing they should be your focus)
wheat elbow
Absolutely.
The sword is in that weird grey area where 2-3 boons are just awesome while the rest is "meh" at best
Yet the fact that there are these absolutelky amazing boons makes you go for the hammer anyway.
With the spear it depends.
If I got something for my charge attack in Tartarus, I would go for a hammer
if not, I'd leave it to the side for a god.
native ether
I don't play with the sword enough to really judge its hammers, but I will say I really do enjoy all the Nova upgrades, Flurry Blade, and World Splitter is my personal favorite (even though I don't think its necessarily the best)
wheat elbow
Duo Nova and Super Nova are just amazing, no questions asked.
World Splitter is decent overall as well.
The one that give your third hit in the chain a crit chance and/or the Nova that makes your attacks crit are actually pretty decent on Artemis runs because of all the added crit synergies and plays.
But that's a very narrow zone.
Same for the one that makes the sword dash attack hit twice.
Has potencial and can work decently on some runs
but all of that pales in comparison to the awesomeness that is double nova and super nove
wheat elbow
Gotta say, the Asterius Charge Attack somehow becomes easier to deal with in frenzied runs.
Not sure what causes it but he seems to have an easier time colliding with things under frenzy
native ether
he moves faster, so it makes sense he has a harder time turning around
wheat elbow
At least some good to Frenzied Runs, am I right?
The Hydra also does it's head slam attack two times in succession on frenzied runs instead of three
stoic crest
https://imgur.com/K9ZHrPk (Stacking damage with both Aphrodite and Dionysus is so OP, with Curse of Vengeance and tempest flourish.) This was for me, my best and fastest run.
turbid needle
Wait until you get Low Tolerance, the Aphro/Dio boon that lets you stack 8 instances of poison on a Weak enemy.
stoic crest
@turbid needle I'm hoping to get that lucky some day. I've only got Duo boon once 
turbid needle
Don't worry. In time, they will come (if Chaos is feeling benevolent).
serene sleet
Hermes Swift Strike that makes attacks 12% faster
Does that work with spear Spin Slash
upbeat junco
What is the best bow build I want to try some runs out later?
turbid needle
Twin Shot Artemis.
You should be dashing almost every single time you attack, so Hunter Dash is a very quick damage up.
Her crit boons enhance this.
upbeat junco
Yea I haven't played in a while so I was wondering what the new best build was. Bow is my main weapon so I've gotten pretty good at dashing between attacks
thanks
wheat elbow
I personally really like Explosive shot
but that is because I hate having to aim the bow
hushed ledge
@short jasper I think as is, simply removing the ability to attack projectiles to destroy them would be an awful idea. However, I think if things were changed to accommodate it, it could lead to much more interesting gameplay that doesn't lead to some enemies being of no threat.
Another option is making it a heat option, designing around it, and making without it easier but still fun
Currently the game is just annoying melee enemies, because they need to carry the bulk of the difficulty and there's only so many interesting and fun things you can do with melee enemies
wheat elbow
That'd be super hard to get used to.
I already feel frustrated about Gorgon projectiles being undestructabke
hushed ledge
It would, but imo it would be better for the game in the long run
As is, how often are projectiles actually a threat? The ones that are already ignore attacks
wheat elbow
Yeah no.
There is only a handful of enemies who even deploys destructable projectiles
Most notably the witches, more notably the ones in Asphodel and Elysium.
If 5-10 Witches spawn in Asphodel and plaster the entire screen with their balls of awesomeness and you don't have the option of destroying them, you will get hit
wheat elbow
There are plenty of projectiles that are undestroyable already.
Theseus spear attacks, wave maker waves
Brimstone lasers
But they aren't being spammed the way destructable projectiles are
hushed ledge
Honestly, it could be cool for witch projectiles being destroyable to be the exception rather than the rule
And you don't need them spammed
wheat elbow
I mean, it already is.
There are no other projectiles that can be destroyed.
Actually, no.
hushed ledge
Meg/hydra can be
wheat elbow
Fury Projectiles also qualify
Let us also not forget how many projectiles can go through walls
hushed ledge
Projectiles going through walls is dumb I feel
wheat elbow
Honestly, the only thing that change would do is make the shield even stronger than it already is in comparison.
hushed ledge
You're assuming nothing else would be changed
But I've always had the note of "this would need many things to be changed" with the suggestion
It's honestly really fun to weave through a well design wave of projectiles
But the 'well designed' part is key
fading stratus
Finally 100 Win Streak https://imgur.com/jbOVJ7x
pastel jolt
hot damn that's impressive
icy edge
Am i seeing things, or does the game get 'smarter' on high heat when it comes to enemy choice?
I pick bow on a seed that features many skullomats, and suddenly they're replaced by louts in every single room.
I decide to adapt and pick shield - suddenly its elite brimstones everywhere
wheat elbow
The game does toss randomized enemies at you, even if you "reload" a seed.
I'd say you just had bad luck of the draw there.
sacred swallow
playing without heat is easy ... to be honest, it gets challenging to play on heat 60+ to unlock those 2 last statue
wheat elbow
Absolutely
serene sleet
yo
Does anyone know if Hermes Swift Strike
"Your attack is 12% faster"
Applies to spear spin?
like does it charge it quicker
finite grail
It’s not a special so I’d assume. I know it works for shield rush
wheat elbow
New video is up.
Gotta say, 8 seconds of Athena Wrath is pretty neat.
Can even carry my sorry butt to victory
turbid needle
Is there a system/hierarchy to which boons the Pomof Power offers you to upgrade?
Would love to know if I'm just really unlucky, or if that thing is deliberately not giving me a chance to upgrade my Primary Attack boon once I have 4+ boons....
versed flame
Okay, so I finally beat 60 heat run... I could've never had done it without Hades Fury power... Because of how in the face I am with any weapon xD
sacred swallow
goodluck with the 120
turbid needle
Technically, yes.
It's most noticeable with the Spread Shot, but the refire time after a Dash attack is much much shorter.
Dashing and holding down the Attack button will result in two very fast shots.
turbid needle
Can you trade out Heroic boons?
native ether
No idea, but I'd doubt it
tawdry jackal
oh gods...
im so very very extremelly tired right now...
16 consecutive failed attempts at 60/75 Heat now
I've tried a lot of different Heat combinations but OOF, Im coming even close to Theseu and Minotaur anymore
Stiffling Darkness is really really weak for the amount of debuff you out onto yourself, it should be preventing you from using X Darkness, but still being allowed to use everyhing else you own on the mirror
it was just so slow and stressful right now...
1 Rare boon and lots of common ones
all enemies with 2 Death Insurance, 50% extra HP, +50% Enemies, 10% Frenzy
and on top of that lots spawn with armor
I felt so
so underpowered xp
gonna sleep now and take a vacation from Hades to clear my mind xD
gonna come back only with the update now xD
wheat elbow
I suggest trying to play a run with other pacts of punishments.